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>> we are delighted at the kansas city public library to have the return of david steward after a return of the career as a lawyer and litigator felt a second career years ago he published a book called 1787 about this summer of which this nation was created. of best-seller. wonderful book. a couple of years ago he published impeached, another wonderful book about andrew johnson's impeachment and the great trial of america in history. we are happy to have him

here talking about that. now we are doubly happy to have his wonderful book the rise of disaster capitalism" about aaron burr the upgrade is conspiracy the duel withth hamilton and thee alleged al attempt to separate from thetes western part of the united states and the great trial that presided under john marshall but also there is an event in the book that i think you need to read about on page 67 in which the first tried to separate their rest from the spanish they were my relatives. you can read about them. they lasted about one week. [laughter] before the spanish showed up to chase them away.up the book is full of great stories. david stewart has become a great author of popular

history and in some academic languages history is notof thought of very high the but it is a great art form in the hands of mccullough and david stewart and some academic historians have become great popular historic event -- historians as well. it is about narrative and telling stories but in the hands of the master it is much more. it is about humane character and what it has to do as aaron burma says the kind of

collar that we all see thecter most interesting to others in our daily lives, not as colorful but then i think have gore vidal from go historical fiction. and every great historian has said unique talent was his training as a lawyer andence as a forensic attitude toward the evidence. that could be from the attitude many academic historians stake as a genuine concern for the evidence leads us. when the board -- motives are mixed as they are. to hope that the talk would answer was the a trader or

was it's another or maybeth? both? david stewart. [applause] >> is thank you very much. great to be back here on this day and to have the opportunity to talk to aaron burr which is always on. and i read very good history is from his story is about her going west after his do with it will sendhing and to sayr he whatever he was upeeme two and it seemed to me that man as a third vice president of united states we ought to have an idea where he was up

two there ought to be records or an account and ofco course, there was a big trialh that i will talk about so i set out in pursuit of that story is part courtroom thriller but before i get into that i want to give some background since you're all starting in a place with this adventure which is the united states this story really happens 80 know five. of the country is not yet 20 years old under the constitution. it is an unfit. we don't really know how things will turn out to or how much of the government will work. we have had some basic p problems selection of 1796 had the odd outcome.

and the constitution hastit been amended now but states chose to elect doors and they voted for president. each had to those who ever got the highest number was a president who ever came second was vice president.r john adams was elected president in his opponent in jefferson then the election of 1800 they did not want to have that happen again so all of the republicans, jefferson's party voted street jeffers said/burr who was supposed to be the vice presidential candidates. so they ended up in a tie. there was no winners under the constitution the election went into the house of representatives. so there the federalist decided they like burr better than to% and they would vote for burr but

there are 35 balance it took one week for the house toth choosese o so finally he sends a note to save o for me in the logjam breaks. that is not only a symptom of how do we were or how parts of the constitution was amended, we still have the electoral college. but it gives a sense of why a thomas jefferson may not have like ehrenburg very much. that is one of the undertones. they never got along. very differentuc people but after that election, jefferson would never do anything for burr and frankly would pay him back. the other thing, another

feature is there were secession movements it was not all clear the united states would remain the united states.s just one year before there was a secession movement and some of the leaders had comeear to burr asking him to join them to the new york ad of the union. there was a cessationked movement in the west ohio, and the land over the appalachian mountains, in in the early 1790s stated to become a state of spain because they wanted to send their goods through norman's controlled by spain and therefore not allow american goods through.eang there was an act of secession movement there.ro there was the whiskey rebellion and the freezer

billion both were led by people who did not want to pay taxes as an american in stable. rn' politics has not changed wholt e lot. [laughter] but it was shocking to findckin it he wrote this sentiment twice with indifference at the prospect of secession.that whether we remain and one confederacy were split is not important to are happy now is that as of the western confederacy will be as much our children as those of the eastern. i feel myself much identified in a future time as with this. imagine president obama that would say ofil e a california, f they want to go their own way, that is okay her coelho i will think well of them by the was not of the question

if they would stay together but a question as to what the united states was at this time. of course, i have a map of 18 '05, the original 13 states along the amen to coast.his the mountains are not showne on the other side we have ohio, academic a comment tennessee and various territories.o. then and 80 know threeawye repurchase the louisiana that territory from the french. this will lose a wonderful transaction not the least of virtues i found was the creative one earring that was done. nobody knew the western boundary of the louisiana territory. there were no maps. the french simply wnd seceded over everything spain had deeded to france. whenever spain gave us, we will give you. but western boundary really

was not known. but also those grey areas florida, a spanish held, new spade include gains taxes through california, claimed territory down to mexico. 90 americans thought they should be part of the united states in their active conversations into an nec's those. america had the expansive view of what the united states might become. we would become really big or be the break up. it is important to keep in mind how it would turn out is no means predetermined. but into this situation weout find aaron burr. he came from a very distinguished family. not wealthy but distinguish.ame his president was president

of what is now princeton new jersey. his grandfather president of the same college. his grandfather is a great theologian who told us we're all sinners in thepr hands of an angry god.was which is unsettling. burr as a teen-ager ran off to join the continental army and joined an expedition into canada in the dead of winter one of the most difficult expeditions in history and one great distinction. all the was small weightman he was extremely tough and hardy and had a real military disposition. was a age of 21, he colonel in the continental army. he commanded a regiment.l in and men who served with him for decades thereafter viewed him with great law and respect as a wonderfult al

successful courageous officer. he resigned after four years because his health was compromised by the military experience took with him.f through his life, a man of action, not ideas. he fancied himself a military figure always referred to as colonel bert. and his courage was quite a military. after practicing law very successfully comment very smart in a good lawyer, he went into politics to become the attorney general of new york, united states senator from new york, and he finished fourth in the 1796 election with 30 votes. in the 1800's election it was of a tie and became the

third vice president. and ambitious man and he a t thought he would bebit president. john adams and jefferson both became president saleh why wouldn't aaron burr? so he was a different sort of person.he not to be too flip but he is the bad boy of the founders. he had a different take on the great figures the leaders of the era, is something i probably a participated in the myth making myself but he did not think they were so hot in. washington was sort of dumb. he thought alexander hamilton was an presentable.

that he was of four andhe w thought thomas jefferson was a coward. and his personal life he made unconventional choice is. he married doublemint 10 years older than he. not the custom at the time. he was a widow -- she was a widow of the british officer. that was controversial. he did pass a way of a tropical fever and he was inouye accountable for thaten but always in his life anf advocate of women's rights think you they rallies but equalof of men if not the superior in educated his daughter the way in a young

man would be educated issuesghte often described as the best educated woman in america who could speak latin and could reverse comfortably with everyone.ft he was an avid lazy-- ladies' man. he did not remarry from 37wi through 77 they gave him 40fe years of bachelor good which he took the advantage of. when of his longtime friend said it is remarkable colonel burr achieved as much as he did resolve the time he spent pursuing women. it is very difficult to capture over the century the charisma of an individual but peopleme found hannay magnetic he was a small man but not flamboyant or noisy but hamilton would walk into a room and take charge and

tell stories and allow voice. if we had enough drink he wouldf jump on the table and start singing.d that was not burr's style he was reserved, that he had charisma and intensity and an obvious intelligence but also a sense of mystery in secret. and a sense of danger rich people react to very strongly. says the zero lawyers later in my views to instruct his colleagues very few written records andre correspondence is a two volumes for but there still working on madison and they're up at 50. a very different type of personality. 80 know for what is aaron

burr very bad year.aaro i apologize. this is his daughter. pays to know for when a very bad the. he learned he would not be a candidate for vice president in the to know for reelection. c this did not have been a terrible surprise but not a disappointment and he decided roy he would do is rebuild his political fortunes and to then as governor of new year which she did in the spring of that year and was pete. he lost rather badly. so while sulking over that, he learns a sun roof remarks that were made of him during alexander tere hamilton during the campaign. he sent him will send a note demanding he retract the.

remarks or explain them and hamilton wrote a response and beings evolved from there and they fought the famous tool and lee hawkins new jersey. it and did very badly for hamilton. he died.he i love this illustration about the dual for 100 years the books i read as a boy handle 10 grabs his head although he was shot in the torso. it is not terribly accurate like so much of history. of the zero he lost the dual it is hard to say that he won it because he was ruined. he was indicted for murder in new york state also in new jerseyue. he had to flee to

philadelphia to avoid arrest. w you have this sitting vice president under indictment and on the lam from the law.dict this was a remarkable turn of the fence and a river understood that his political future was pretty much over as a conventional figure. was and he decided to turn his attention to the west. as an american tradition if your life goes south come ago glass. mchale left office as vice president he made a six month journey during the ohio and mississippi river. this map, but said dotted line is set out word trip tootte follow the river and the solid line is money had to go to the forest to get home to it was the

zigzag he called on many important men during c the trip and drop din on to future presidents.ng t jackson and harris in. senators, a couple of militia general's. always interested in than those of generals and we have not paid our soldiers very well. and as compensation in the coming every offered the officers land out west. it was a roman tradition. and many of them moved out there. they remember him fondly. because he was such a young man during the revolution he would talk to the suns much more than two them tohe w

recruit them for an expedition he wanted to leave the also recruited the irish patriot he was the ichabod crane figure and hadbo ad legacy he was fritter it away and burr always helped people like that but the most important person he connected with was this gentlemen, wilkinson come with a general in chief of the army. our army at that time was a pathetic operation. 5,000 men jefferson did not like it so that he cutback at 3,000. he was a aheioit general in chiu because nobody else care to be a part of it. soldiers were a ragtag group

spread out across and woken said was a remarkable figure. a secret agent of the king of spain. w for 20 years he received bribes from spain. in return he was special agent never 13 for about it sounds like maxwell smart he broke records it is not clear that the spanish got much value for what they paid him as is often the experience in d. roosevelt road a book and said there is no more despicable character but in one of his reports come i tried to keep an open mind, he tells the

spaniards about the lewis ander clark expedition int dell's them to haul them off to mexico. then he tells them about the daniel boone settled and encourages the spaniards to break it up and send them back to kentucky.leme if you sell out melissa and clark and daniel boone you are a bad guy. there is an episode was the louisiana purchase theri tissue the idea of a personality with a hard drinking guy with few military achievements and court martial for some regularity and always exonerated. it was said he has never lost a battle or one an investigation. [laughter] and to hand over the louisiana territory, they had a formal ball.

most of the residence in that area were french speaking people. they were called creole and t they were not happy to have a united states taking over their land. it was a foreign country. they could no longer speak french. so at the ball the band was a between french and american songs to keep everybody happy. wilkinson got liquor up and demanded to american songs in a row. he was the man in charge. what is particularly odd is the second song was rule britannia of five but you have to believe it was chosen just because it could annoy the french got because it was very american.th wit of that was done and the french broke out into a spontaneous chorus at which

point* a brawl broke out and then when they we're donema wilkins then led the american is out of the hall in triumph all that was missing was bogart and bergman. but it does give you a favorite -- favor they hebu came across as a buffoon to many people i am sure aaron burr thought of him that way. and it turned out wilkinson was very dangerous. they do reach in a great -- that an agreement the content of which is subject of much lying on the inquiry, in still in dispute c today is what drove the story. but if i go back, aaron burr dropped in on wilkinson in

the ohio river on the way down than when he comes back up he goes out of his way to see him again in st. louis.up i during this journey burr follows a certain narrative. we have a number of accounts of what he would say. ce a course he never explains himself after words. you don't get in demar from a river. he told westerners semantics states were of pressing and exploiting the western states 18 '05 as ic atlantic states at the time of the revolution 1776. it sounded like he was telling them they showed rovell. also the separation from the west wasth inevitable. he did not tell them to do but it was inevitable. and a war with spain was highly desirable so we could

get the good spanish land.ed he also talked about mexico in a romantic way and you have to appreciate how americansan viewed mexico at the time it was tremendous wealthth coming out of mexico two-thirds of the world silver, but it was a colony of the spanish came. americans have a view of a cross between fp know, the -- ghandi and el dorado. ritchie is a in oppressed people who needed to be liberated maybe even exporting democracy. it is a powerful force of america and imagination in still is. he said it was there for the american is taking and they

should do it and underlying all of this message thatson thomas jefferson and lettuce eight pantywaist and burr could take them and they should go off on their own. the question i posed at the beginning is what was the up to? itca is not an easy question because he basicallyons described in all various conversations that have come too late to date, five different purpose this of his expedition. i tried to call the of conspiracy because it was so public it was not much of a conspiracy. a couple of times i don't think he meant it but with aes,o few hundred men he could conduct that could talk to through congress and the

president out and takeover. i they he was on the a adrenaline high or drinking too much don't think he meant that talked about the insurrection of new orleans creole and they will lead to welcome him there and succeed has with the rest of the louisiana territory. also talking about the invasion of mexico and florida and if the united states to go to war with spain that he thought exactly what they should do would it would be as privilege and honor to lead the american troops. with such an invasion. jefferson neverat let aaron burr the american troops but militia and the reason and a militia maybe

you could get himself into a position of power.he he was the most eminent man who had crossed the appalachian mountains.he he had maybe he could make it happen. cahal -- one other thing that he would lead us settlement of this territory. much of american and land development in that era was essential the cascara it -- cascading a series of frauds. people sold land they did not know or had never seen and resold and mortgaged andpe it was a scandal happening over and over. i detail examples in the

book but burr acquired a flimsy interest to say he would leave us settlement for i don't think aaron burr ever meant to live in this particular then rather remote part of the countryhe. the only virtue is that it is close to the spanishovok border where one could provoke a war. all of these different plans of occur under the backdrop of the expectation that the west shawl secede and the historians who do express an opinion to say they should figure out. some say it burr was the complete trader been to the day secession and should you have been haig and others

say he was misunderstood and this just going to settle the track to. my view is that aaron burrid. meant all of the things that he said. not sure what he could get be away with and what would be possible progress think hediti meant to organized the an expedition just to see what could happen. and i find myself trying to piece it together thinking of cinematic images that medieval blow more than brando is a leader of the motorcycle bag of terrorizes the town and halfway through thee sweet young things as what are you rebellingyo against? he says what do you got?

i think that explains where to burr was making to look -- something happened outrageous i don't want to dismiss it aseopl frivolous. but some people do. he had such a fire of ambition you couldn't see because he was so reserved but the behavior shows that.e so whose career ended in ashes at 49 years old. to leave his name in history in this was the best way to do. not theho flimsies celebrity hundred we think of today but the recognition of your character in quality as a person. that is how he thought of it.

he wanted to do great things and also wanted to get back at jefferson to play a bigis b role in the bad outcome. burr that with the ambassador from bryn andat told him he would lead the expedition to take over new orleans to invade mexico and florida and asked that he asked him to meet him there. and he said this would result in the dissolution of the united states. he did not seem unhappy about that and of course, of their work to there would be no jefferson memorial. when the expedition was finally launched in the second half that was a thick , burr had built boatsr

for more than 1,000 men to come the boats built on the verb pa., ohio, the wabash river, the annex, and clearly expected a huge outpouring of men who had already signed up. remember, there are on a 3,000 men in the army per griffey had 1200 men in boats baleen down the mississippi river he avoided control every territory he passed. the greatest force for hundreds of miles. but some things broke against him. the recruits were scared off that the u.s. attorney in kentucky became suspicious newspaper in frankfurter started to brand stories exposing his plans

at least 50% was fantasy. but 50% was pretty accurate. not as bad as journalism goes. e prosecutor tried to summon a grand jury to bring charges a against burr he was finally able and presented evidence a grand jury came back to say a river is a fine human being and we think the prosecutor should go home. but his reputation took him. the same time the same man burr had tried to recruit issued an affidavit describing all of burr beverages plans that he made the a coup d'etat in washington that ups a lot of people. an

not just the invasion of mexico but maybe there was this activity.then then president jefferson finally roused himself this is october 80 know six, jefferson has been receiving reports from the west 16 months that iran her is up to no good preissing troops come a trying to the days this session of the western part of the country and jefferson has doned nothing. he has not lifted a finger. one more reason why burr thinks jefferson is a lightweight but then he issues a proclamation to say there are people in the west thinking of doing bad things up to america and should not be a part of it. this combination of defense turns off the people who we're going to join the expedition. a number of them do but on the 100.

they leave from here in the ohio river and diamond in the middle of the river and they make their way down the river but it burr is that with them the yousaf with andrew jackson and trying to get him to join them in burr goes down and joins them with the cumberland it joins the ohio river. there have been one of the two dramatic moments of this e event. burr's joining his men for the first time many have not met him so they gather on the shore he goes around to shake hands and greets them in than steps forward to say a few words but in that period of time, but it isnd o

news when 100 guys show up in boats the surrounding farms have shown of so he gestures to those who say i tell you why we're here. and that is it. i was personally astonished the 100 guys got back in thept boat and kept going. if he cannot tell them why they're there. and during the trial that chief justice marshall points to this specifically to save paul he was doing he could have said sell but there was something else he was up two. they continued down the river. until they get to to where things finally fall apart. the only way burr can

succeed with the small group of men is if will considerkins enjoins them to bring the army with them that was the i plan. as it appears. will consent is out here in the lesser part of the o territory facing off againste the spaniards brought to the roof is of border disputes the perfect time to start a war burr expected him to doit and wanted him to do and will consider did not. he received a letter called the desai third letter in the code famous letter and it says laurie awaits us we must be our fate texaco and a breezy and are there for the taking and words like that but wilkinson receives the letterha and does not do with burr expects and decides instead of being a double agent he will be a

triple agent. he double crosses burr. this way he earns the gratitude of the spaniards to say stopped innovation and earn the gratitude of jefferson and to stop the secession he hurries off to newop orleans trying to destroy evidence of his or involvement and the rest of the people with burr he was part of it and ships them to stand trial to declare martial law. suspense accords. when burr is detained he is in fear for his life and fearing that wilkinson will have him killed. he is brought in front of a grand jury in mississippi. the evidence against him? the grand jury refuses to bring charges to say he is a fine man your angry that

government is trying to waste our time by trying to prosecute. there is an element people in that it part of the country thinking invading mexico was one heck of an idea and did not see anything wrong with it. t negative l it -- burr was held on bail even though id no they did not bring charges but he jumped bail and fled to the east for the forest of alabama than finally invested their and brought back to stand trial for treason. he ends up in front of the lead john marshall justice with an amazing trial. our first trial of the century. every century in america has about one dozen trials thisce was our first. p

former vice president on trial hot for treason so imagine what cnn and fox news would do with that today and face capital punishment. he assembled a legal dream team so the defense lawyers have been delegates one was the finest trial lawyer in l richmond and of course, burr was the best lawyer in the room. the prosecutors would become the attorney general of the united states from fears and critical legal issues at stake. the constitutional definition was very important and essential to the case. a the founders and the framers had been very troubled c by the use of treason by english kings and o oppression seen as their

enemy. so it is the only crime defined in the constitution protested the levying war against the government or giving aid and comfort to thed enemy and there has to be two witnesses at present evidence of the overt act of treason. it is spell out. was so it is the meaning of the habeas corpus clause the requirement that when somebody like wilkinson just iraq's people without due process to go before a judge to test the evidence against her. suggesting that it had to be applied even in the case of treason and the last 10 years all the dictation of the men held in guantanamo, j chief justice marshall holding in the.

case was central.se and also the case of executive privilege. a first saying he did was attacked. president ever since that way.er i am the president. and chief justice marshall responded to that of course, he is the president but not above the law. he has to produce his records.t, and then over executive privilege and frankly every

time we have a situation like psat and it all started with deron her and chief justice marshall. in the indictment was so badly with it -- written and have already described how to differing grand jury is out west acquitted burr and would not bring charges record jefferson became convinced it was not a good idea to try aaron burr out less than they could not trust them. so they wanted to bring a case in virginia because that would be the jefferson's people the jeffersonian republicans would want to convict burr and when they picked the jury that cannot have a neutral juror. after days of trying to pick the jury burr just said i will take the next four and

they said you cannot take meat. i think you should bed hanged. he said i don't care.e the reason is he was trying nikkei's to the judge he fry knew in the jury room fry him but he just needed to win with a judge. and the indictment was w written to get the case in virginia they claimed that the trees in happened on the island. that was the western edge of virginia now part of west virginia and burr was not there. it was a rookie mistake and it made it on answerable after 14 madrassas chiefst

justice marshall shut down the case and sent it to the jurors. that did not stop the lawyers from speaking in extraordinary languages. when of the lawyers through the mark of maryland.ye who wasrs reputed for drinking brandy throughout the day he gaveot an argument on the motion that lasted 14 hours. on the final motion he spoke three days, 21 hours and the people were amazed. he did repeat himself and labor board but they said his energy and strength was remarkable as was the fact he never got course.act one of the prosecutors gave a speech that lynn a

genamerica and oratory afterwards schoolchildren were forced to memorize the speech that the prosecutors he compared burr to the serpent in the garden of eden progress metaphors go b that isur not the ones youin want to have applied two you. i just want to read a brief package -- passage spirit the conquest was not difficult it was incredulous such as this bated even when busts are bent injured the bowers. of the prison 3010 going into the unfortunate part of the island found it hard to change their heart and the ttject of their infection infection -- affection a daring and desperate thirst for earth glory for great

enterprises for the hurricane of life.in foodstuff. but the jury under the instructions given to them under chief justice marshall under the evidence does not convict.ief the return a verdict. even then it was guilty or not guilty. those were the choice is. but this jury was so frustrated they could not convict the returned a verdict that read the defendant was not proved to be guilty under this indictment by under any evidence submitted to us. i have never seen a verdict like that before. the best evidence never made it to trial. their reports a spanair british ambassador's that he said to them hth what was buried under diplomat day archives and there was correspondenced in

between burr or wilkinson that neither wanted to produce. they both said under kabuki drama that it would be wrong to disclose another man's private correspondence. as a gentleman there would be unable with a mutual deterrence they held on to those letters and they havewoul never come to light.use burr confederates we do have the account of one confederate who was sent ease taken from prison to meet with president jefferson. which according to him was take baton rouge, sees the ships in the harbor and invade mexico. i am not sure how you seize the ships without taking control of the city so it sounds like he is leading the insurrection.t so burr himself gave some of

his intention several years later in europe after thecr verdict, as often exiled toer t europe and tried to persuade the british to lead the expedition to south america. the british were not willingth to do so.on it is a fascinating episode.er two even speak spanish in london he starts spanish lessons. i wonder what he was thinking. he ended up in paris and submitted memorandums and that describes hisnt intent as well.m and his joint actions or a matrix to take a private force downriver to probablye sees that larouche and

florida. he expected the insurrection from the french speaking people and would be greeted as a liberator.ecti to seize the ships to the the invasion of mexico and if all that well, there would be a new empire. spanning the gulf of mexico from the florida keys all the way around too central v america.e of course, the west that he would never do directly would be very encouraged to join in a country that controlled new orleans because that is the key to their prosperity and trade. not cardin stone but something else he could have done he would have as well. t >> this is not just the amazing adventure story although it is one last

image coming he comes back from europe to practice law rather quietly and desperately for another 20 pus years. there were real consequences of the burr tried to do and not all for intended. the failure as the fact tove make secession unattractive and most americans declined invitation so waiting at the chief justice marshall's opinions the meaning of treason and, habeas corpus come executive privilege but more important is thein principaanlce that even if you are a former high official we are entitled to a fairre

trial in every light dayu ar strike the law gives anyu ar defendant not impeded by pressure but we're burr excels his military vision they really were there for the taking.iden that is what happens jackson took florida 1818 and a big part of his claim to become president. singh houston has the cory and a founding father of that country for the meeting the invasion of mexico that burr intended. stay there became president when scott became aad i candidate based on that

achievement. sc one of the symmetricalca moments of history happens 18351 year before burr dies when he reads a newspaper of the independence of texas and proclaims i was right. i was on me 30 years too soon what was treason in me is petri is some now but it was farwa too late for aaron burr. thank you very much. i am happy to take questions [applause] >> my question had to do with wilkinson in.

at the time of the lewis and clark expedition which went to northwest, also another one went to the southwest southwest, that tripent actually they were captured by the spanish. did wilkinson had the the thing to do with that? >> yes. you areth describing the ha expedition by a pipe which will consent commissioned and there is a very fine book isie nowt easy to read by a fellow in the '50s where he has a couple of chapters about that and it is clear the his view that pike was to find the invasion route that wilkinson wanted to follow into mexico and that was the purpose of the trip. he never actually proves the case and that none of it is true or not because i left it out because i cannot