the anti-kennedy from the right environment of texas in those days over solarize primarily. thus the liberals always try to wrestle with. they feel that toxic atmosphere, anti-civil rights, anti-kennedy somehow instead of getting killed by a guy he was actuated with castro. didn't like what kennedy had just said in tampa. ..

>> alt a i look good show them. i would show that about bad day and the sound of the drum for you can hear them now. and the saddle it.

>> host: you can see john john salute. >> guest: by the way he was practicing that a few days before because she wanted him to use that at arlington. i heard this just the other day to radiobroadcast told me that night he was hyundai at arlington and there in the crowd and he heard the shots of the final tribute 22 kennedy's gravesite and there in the crowd he saw nixon. he realized it could have been him. >> >> host: where is his place in history? it. >> guest: the people think of him in mount rushmore is the same way as teddy roosevelt not the accomplishment but for this during hurling clive that led to the presidency and people want to be like that guy. americans would to be like jack kennedy not the one

that like the girls but he had debts and save his crew will lourdes to and also with the cuban missile crisis. when a president can rise to the occasion to be a better man as president more than he was in life, it is our dream. >> host: chris matthews, they do. in iraq, capn

patriquin was killed by a roadside bomb that same year to read this is about an hour. >> thanks for coming. we are going to hear from >> they do very manage. thank you to the and why you lillian vernon writers house for having me. of i do talk about my book "a soldier's dream" in then

asked the audience of for any questions. this book tilburg as a result of the reading aas newspaper article as a soldier who was being held as of march your by the iraqis. i thought that sounds interesting. he had died with the ied attack is day morrice capt. and travis patriquin in thei history of the iraq war i a never heard as the american soldier being held as a murder but this happened in a city that was the epicenter of the iraqi insurgency and add that the military memorial service or patriquin in his colleagues a delegation of iraqi shakes se officersrity came in to pay their respects to the fallen americans into offer islamicy prayers of morning which is

a strike to scene. i had to find out more about this story and as i interviewed scores of patriquin colleagues are realized i his story is critical to understandqi america' cs role all of the world stage with the post bin laden post arab spring era maybe even touche discover what it means to be an american. the historic consequence of 2010 did i came to realize patriquin was a key player in the key moment of the war and the war began to turn around mid 2006 wants before the three biggest surge as patriquin and colleaguesbefo helped the iraqis launch of the awakening which is a suni tribal revolt against al qaeda.aken

of al qaeda has never really conquered and howled larget al pieces of territory in theq world.has there is some exception but what happened with anbar provinceel say-- they set up a sharial government law, accords, parallel ministries of government.al of the rule of this version of radical islam was so t offensive of the local iraqis rebelled and we helped them in the awakening was born. if facilitated the surge in both turning points to help save iraq was the total full-scale civil war to a different kind of outcome which a is still terriblyvil dangerous but it transformed in the last five years.00

first two is travis patriquin and who is the man iraqi said help to shape thewa course of the iraq war? born in the midwest andwho joined the army on the day he finished high school iny 1993 abo devout catholic and christian who happen tao believe that and refuse toholi believe his religion wasd right and others were wrong. in fact, in went to

afghanistan where the first wave ofl soldiers to strikeh back after 9/11 and won a sol bronze star for the being troops then, that there. in 2005 he was assigned to. be the tribal affairs officer for the u.s. military in remind the, iraq has won a journalist called it the most fucked up playssh on earth the headquarters ofy. the al qaeda headquarters attempting to launch an iraq.

three things are obvious to 210 and his colleagues they had to attack with firepower had to rebuild the shattered police force toq reach out to the remaining tribal shake a lot of those have fled the war.r and aeronaut may laugh although only a junior officer, patriquin becamean did key liaison betweenin bludgeoning -- one change the war.o not only those americans who served in iraq but those who died and tried to help the iraqis to build a new nation and perhaps the best way is to hear what the iraqis say about him.. in the words of the man who sai created the awakening movement patriquin was an

extraordinary man who played an important role he was my brother and spoke arabic and it looked like an arab man. and he came at the start of the awakening we need is a man like him he was humble and friendly and always helping me. he helped s us with weapons and h ammunition to deliver food to those who were inped trouble and defended women and children against the terrorists. is very important to build up four between the u.s. and the sheik. patriquin was extraordinary. one baghdad for an interpreter said patriquin was above with iraqi addicted to the culture and obsessed he love the food, the people, everything about iraq and another interpreter tellme. >> iraqis can levy but they loved him. of magical personality andd trust will face his presence was noted immediately. iraqis love to talk to been p

with them mustache suntan in dark skin he looked like anme arab. besides that hong its heart was connecting that when they sat down to e with captain patriquin you could tell he enjoyed bd with hitos hands and he said i will doe whatever i can't assure you i am a genuine he gave them the most honest picture the american military and thought he was the true american and at heart. and said my god nobody else to form a closer connection and they and travis did for they adored him. l saidmer iraqi genera americans have note appreciated the less than of what patriquin in his colleagues did.ld it was an absolute merck

kaltbaum america has not learned the lesson is should have we need people likee patriquin in the military not just iraq but afghanistan and pakistan people who are principle to win the hearts and minds with their culture and theire w minds, not weapons. patriquin thought we had to reach out because it was dysfunctional and policy makers were trying to go from the top down also to reach out to identify and surgeons to avert reconcilable and to negotiate. two flip them over two hour side because the insurgency of course, the also to think we should be humble to show respect to iraqis in deal on

its own terms instead of make them more like us which is a tremendous insighto comerica does business in the world trip if you want to stabilize cut the crap of the a idealism and deal with the shakes. his partner who launched the awakening some people thought was the tony soprano of western iraq and the alleged gangster and a rough character also an inspiring leader it turns out. fill only in his late thirties and declared war on al qaeda. his closest american contact list patriquin he told anybody who woulds listen that he is the key to remind the.ld a nothing will work without him. he is huge, the center of

gravity budget this may be the way out of iraq for us. this sector the way patriquin wanted it to vhs he proved to be very effective to fight al qaeda in this period and began ton flip to the coalition inside. in my book there are a few scenes inaction when patriquin he speaks arabic or slaying and he sheiks hands and says the part of our wrapper year from? and northern south? and patriquin would say i am fm from chicago. i am an american. made the iraqis were befuddle they thought he had child and then to

come back with a funny accent. they met and quickly became close allies. and in the senate colonelto who realizes they ever becoming brothers and actually patriquin movedd into the house to become theg headquarters and they let patriquin run with this relationship. it was difficult at the time because done deal with this character. he is a killer. and patriquin says are you crazy nobody has,n been no blood we have to do with who's your.o people started to join the police force and the combat

zone turned against al qaeda.e he was dazed it was largely eliminated in anbar provincea the beginning of 2007 as a remarkable achievement. another subject that patriquin was introduced to a cleric named your body and set down and discussing how they could keep up to expel the radical islam who have hijacked the mosques. the cleric oust patriquin what you do? et where your ideas? do have a plan? became in 2003 and you had no plan. do have one now?d patriquinn was very impressed by a former clergyman in and made him and perfect example

of mainstream islam in this and we have a plan we'rec working to make it happen to free you from al qaeda and to three iraq from caris of.re rutherford of the conversation turned to religion and patriquin said i respect islam as a religion and muslims and ibu have no problem with islam mu whatsoever. but al qaeda is causingr. great confusion by calling us infidels we're not here to fight for a religion where her to fight people who use islam and the justification to do evil things. as patriquin once referred to al qaeda. >> these people, al qaeda are not muslims. they say they are there perverting the division for evil purposes. p a in the years since 9/11 it

is said terrible tragedy. there are made the incidents were christians help muslims and muslims helpedma christians and a discuss the position of jesus christ inri their less thanst b convince if they could get control of the mosques from al qaeda, then the islamic clerics could issue decrees to help bring peace to the city and that is what happened did a few months. the last interview i did for the book was on skype lewis with another sheik tonto give you an idea of what the thought of patriquin had the iraqis. t

i consider that capt., said tribal name of patriquin toe be the murder of anbar province and deserves all of god's mercy because hem worked from a pure hard she wanted to help us gave hisfr lives of the iraqi men and women could live in peace prize still think fam often. i still remember this thing go words used to say. patriquin arabic was very weak. i consider him i iraqisateders brother and that is why we fought the terrorists. would be lost a brother likehe kim it is like cutting our are moth.tc

in every don't cry for fall playing soldiers. indicted not shed a tearn bread i't cried and to reconsider him our brother i don'tb consider him a beer can come occupying force, iraqi by blood even know is served only a shortcacu time it was of great time.ith he was planning to live here for a berber or wish to bring him back of his soul and spirit lives with us here in one of the few americans who knew how to do with the tribal men and tribal chiefs in this part power to help us when the power i wish it patriquin room with me he would stand up and refined a solution to give me a piece. what could we learn from travis patriquin? >> to lessons occur.her, perhaps the most importantt

lesson is one of theey a greatest forms of patriotism is the ability to be humble to inspire eased 1/3 to do great things of the world stage. to do them not just through ou tr words the character and example. maybe comment just maybe americans should embrace islam on our own terms. what if america and steadied the face it carefully to understand a good as well as the evil? what if americans got to know muslims intimately to study the q'uaran?sw maybe in the original arabic to understand the full truth authentic message there was

an amazing american who didenti this his name negative travesty 102 volunteered to strike back after 9/11 been 2006 but only using his experience as aan warrior private his language skills and the intense love for arabic culture helped shapec the course of the iraq war to pressure al qaeda of the surgeon's fee and when he died and just before he died patriquin wrote to god's plan is the node u.s. but there is a plan for our believe that with all my being and we are a part of it. i think he was right. thank you. [applause] >> i have so many questions

after hearing that. >> how does one go about winning hearts and minds?o you kept mended day smidgen being the must negative. how do replicate that? there are thousands of u.s. military personnel who behave to do girls-- glorious things for our country. but with sewage plants, factories, how to

build a society of the nightmare. a lot of people who did great things for us are in the impossible condition. you learn from the rest of the world. you are humble. they said it was humility ihe think that is one hell of a strong act to deploy the potentially the strongest of americans are proud of the country and rightly so there is the big conflict in the military. when officers sit-down the behavior like military officers say have the agenda, apolo pointsctri been to go bang bang bang. get things done.i

and in a culture like iraq that is the opposite of beingo effective you have tot's sit down for hours and hours.ro patriquin was a master to drink potions ofpa tea, cigarettes, hold hands hands, you may and gas. talk about chicago high school and maybe in a couple of weeks people feel comfortable to get things done. the military learned that but it comes down to america projecting themselves properly. that is one of patriquin scraped assets. >> his love of thingsr arabic , did you always have an interest in the arab world? patriquin was an oddball in a positive way.yi

he was sort of stocky did none this to many meals the republican in the beinge special forces support soldier. he is not a marshmallow by any means but the endless fascination here love to mythology and some of theyou roadbed is very heroic and he saw a source of endless fascination he had the q'uaran there is a pitcher in my book and sector run he picked up in jordan did insist on finding one tot study the awful accurate picture not what somebody pic

sevens in in the merrell an excerpt from and not to say coming he hated islam makee radical islam. he realized of than tick islam that if americans took the time to understand or have the courtesy so many have an opinion nine islam and they should but what about stopping by the local mosque to save you mind if i sit in the back one day? i am just curious. they will say come on in most likely. if the mosque that i live next door to is any indication, the race in theere' back occasionally and want

to cry because the message is so kristian and you wish and ecumenical about love and compassion and charity charity, it will blow your mind for pro let's develop strong opinions to know who the enemy is but not have the courtesy to get off our butts to distinguish between the true enemy 99.9% that is potentially a great ally. >> have the informed opinion. >> been called the lawrence of arabia how conscious is that and are the similar views that and both the lawrence of arabia connection? >> it is overreaching and cheesy and i have no desire

to be lulled thomas. but in the way as starting to think about patriquin it is inescapable because he went to the remote desert if you remember the lawrence of arabia the interior a planetary but that is where he would kill about arafat to sleepis under the stars the grade is 98 of his life and patriquin thinks that i am in the spot where lawrence of arabia was. that is one of the many points he connected with the soledad when culture. >> that was 99.

>> how did the two men succumb? and nine senior officer intr debt playing such of paid role how do they do with geopolitics? >> you read about the great thing see accomplished in the trade as. when did the things that we remember with pat tillman nor a handful of others and the fact is all the other sheiks were slaughtered by al qaeda or they ran away. because it was such a household. patriquin was put their ads an accident of history and they realized they could get things done. he thoughtl i could trust him to deliver on his promises.

and it may be the way for some of us to leave iraq which is some semblance of our departure. but remember 2006 lookedno like hell honors was openingwday up and nothing but a civilp war 11 restrictive slaughter. the weakening happens prepayou former insurgents on behalf of the coalition and to give enough breathing room for things not to fall apart. it turned to the course. >> talk about the sydneyo awakening, but with aawak

feeling parcheesi awakening? does he have strong feelings or was he pro-american in? >> to say he did businesss with the americans.di a gangster, of vagabondt vagabond, killer perhaps, this ideology wasal spendable. for members of his family were killed. says a lot of this was in tours tribal feuding. the terms of the archive data, a coalitioni, but heq had a better reason and is very skilled to tellr americans what they wanted

to hear. george bush's the father of a free iraq. america is soldiers would leave.o he was a country bumpkin. guess what happened?at he sits down with george bush has a quote partner a few-- later satr was killed as wasdr says patriquin but he became very outspoken and he dared terrorist i am ready for you. >> for they immediately warm to each other? >> i am giving new observations from people in the room, colleagues who to an extent i am speculating.>>s

but at first i think he appeared to be a potential zero allied. they hit it off the first few meetings but it took a while for them to warm up tod th each other. and satr a skeptical of americans making promises. they had done that beforene they do give a new cast of characters. that he wanted to test him to say can you send me a couple hundred gallons of fuel? kid use then the small shia enclave a few truckloads of sugar? patriquin would deliver on the promises and sometimes have rights to say we have to make it happen. and bedouin culture if you don't do and say what you do.oeulth

there is there a critical period of the weakening weakening, these guys were literally blood brothers. saying we will give u.s. house year blind and he said i was already married. [laughter] but patriquin very much wanted to come back to iraq after things have stabilized >> with this suni awakening would havea, worked without the surge? how important or connected were they? >> it was is rich 10 by iraqis someday but what appears to have happened ist the cities were so sick oft wh

the al qaeda to eliminate business in from smoking and drinking american lives lookar like fools because we do not understand theht differencel between medical perverted is long and authentic islam. that was a distinction in very visible in the anbar province.ed not a great outcry define their. the question and it is the big picture is the sinews were exhausted, sick of al qaeda -- of thousands of

young suni men were part of the sons of iraq had nots been absorbed into the iraqifigh security forces. they are unemployed increasinglyn resentful and angry they may look back to feed their family.ul that is a terrible danger. i think the number one job they should figure out a way to help the awakening fighters first. >> what you said about al qaeda with that taebo stuff how prevalent wasn't there before and how did they take control? who was running before thek weakening? was there% acting as mayor?

what about before in after the war? wa >> there was the al qaeda created in iraq with the conditions that came out of our invitation.w the their here nor there.owed we cannot change that and certainly there were sporadic contacts that did not amount to much but who is true laying al qaeda? there is a guy who followed him who was killed last year grew to a charge in the key battle in my book and moved into the area to attend due to lie about theokar awakening as a very unusual strategy which was infantry, dozens

of foot soldiers launching boots on the ground attack on a tribe that was pivotal to come within a hair of doing it.al the charges could have been different may and august down to theg moment when patriquin of saphead jumbo screen our forces cannot figure out who is to we havet aircraft overhead ready to kill the terrorist and patriquin says in arabic tois the sheik on the ground take off your shirt and wave them in the air. in the same. handkerchiefs, shirts, that way we can know who it -- who is on the battlefield. they did that and the rags pop up on the screen it turns into a joint trip to do with the mayor can force is.t. one of the high water marks

that they have toe withdraw -- withdraw as a of strategy fails and came within 1 inch of succeedingh in that moment some shifted int favor of the iraqi government survey can teach and develop that strategy to take off insurance. of was this feeling of the war itself? he mentioned in some wayside the american and presidents and iraq helped to create al qaeda so was his feeling about the war itself how president bush? >> patriquin that we should of bond and heavier and stronger with more special forces. he had a lot of problems i don't think he sought as his job to say publicly whether not we should have believed wei he thought they should

eliminate terrorism to build a new nation and believed in that. that was the agenda but i think he voted for bush in his mother told me but by 2006 the realized as long as bush is running the war will never get anythingt accomplished and he thought big mistake made by a bush, rumsfeld cheney that he held personally responsible forh mismanagement in to he thought the iraqi war could be more.ha

>>pp z awakening to see thee similarities? >> you say this is aar momentan of the era of spring of dictatorship of anbartion province of in there is much connection beyond the spu terror. i don't think anybody look so what happened says inspiration. to facilitate the air of spring something is happening with the arrow sole as aircraft is a model but it could be.aa i think iraq is a gray and

brown and brilliant peoplee everybody iste afraid it might blow to hal and it might but i think they would survive. >> today the islamist claim egypt so it is up for grabs. is there something we couldeg do? widow 12 '02 heavily influence it again but to to speculate, is there something we could do to help iraq to where. >> #1 is to stay out of politics. number two, when we can maybe in the vse is a plan to write to make it out behind the scenes that the big answered your question is a much larger spiritual question the we should ask is americans whicht eo is toir really try a little harder to understand the difference

between the islamist and muslim brotherhood? and outside and double the faceted civil war that is going on across the arab world today to take the time to understand it fully? was we understand that wen have but koop and a chance and a prayer to understand a common future. it is still fashionable with some politicians to tell jokes about muslim. to have an honest debate about sharia law as governor christie said paraphrasing said the whole discussion is crap. don't raise your time worrying about sharia law ina newp jersey. be

[laughter] not for a nanosecond radical but let's get to know is on better than we can understand the politicsto better and then how these guys are our allies as in the case with libya. >> take the discussion back at patriquin can you talk about his death a little bit? >> with the convoy 2006 he was then one of the follow-up cars al qaeda tries to hit the car in the middle to create confusion. along withede made and the highest rankings female remain to diane niara corporation. the reaction was sheik satr

drink of few chords of jack daniel's and got his gun and said i will kill whoever did this and put the word out on the street get the guy who did this. they did. they picked up a couple of temple face 18/20 year-olds local sunni men who took $200.2 plant the bomb because that is the way to have been income and they arrested them to put them in the iraqi justice system but the reaction among the iraqis was great morning because so many of the bears got to know patriquin. the mayor of revive the earlier this year i said you remember travis patriquin? yes. i looked -- worked very closely before a game mayor. he says thata man was a hero.el

why? because he gave us our freedom. i thought that is a good? enough reason. maybe it is true. there was morning and in fact, today there is only one building named afteryo an american that is the police station in raimondi ai good-sized police station with several hundred police officers reporting for duty and over the door is travis patriquin. >> that is amazing how you heard about the story you saw an article saying the iraqis mourn a martyr.>> i am a fiction writer so i don't know how you go about

this without making it up, r so but have you take that interest to turn it into a book? >> the americas soldier hailed as a merger in a wondered if anybody reads more of the story i called his h family in his wife and they said know. he loved the jt's and his wife said to me please make sure you get the story right. get it right. that meant do your work and it took me four years of interviewing to put it together i was lucky because i found a lot of documents that were shared with me in tof this bookn exist is travis patriquin helped me his colleagues and

lower in arabic people who worknu with him every dayf which is his translators. his arabic was not perfect he always needed a translator next to him for dear him in those for men gave me the heart and soul because they spent time smokingu cigars on the off hours he talked about how he felt of the era of seoul. how often do americans get to do this? and have been 26 o a month said it is an interesting snapshot of the week to do on the road stage. >> you connected with these people. how do take the 80 after fouram years of research to crafted into a story that is

as readable and enjoyable as yourh book? >> i believe they happen to be in an institution bo renowned geared toward greatwe h fiction writing. and some never mind jabba writer of nonfiction is to put a gun to your head tonfi say make this much like good fiction as you can to push things to the limit of readability without violating any laws of fact. i tried to do three books like that. the only way i can do that is with a lot of research. by interviewing people to boy living out their prospective to correct it all. i like to read books that are like a freight train nor a speeding bullet.h in

let me go 110 miles per hour and some stories almost right themselves. this is one of them becauseh patriquin just wrote the storys himself and i got the pieces from the people he was with. >> when his wife said tell it right to if you tell about. somebody who is nationally heroic likeitin him, you keep it from being a hero worship of our other than the official army account? it is the complicated or just as the heroic symbol? denied that day is an excellent point*. face it. 4400 brothers and sisters in iraq so far. 100,000 iraqi civiliansi women and children come of old men become as civilians

100,000 are dead now because of some former and but it hasns created for all of them deserve to be looked upon asre human beings. he said grievous learned from the mistakes of those us from those two paid for their mistakes in blood. he loves a lousy staff officer coming he hated to would reports and power point presentations. if you look at said patriquin power point you see the goofball shrewd power play with goofy figures and says i will stick it to power point* nine numbers or pieano charts but even a general can

understand. that is the kind of guy that he was. iconoclast, offbeat. one army officer thought hes he was being too friendly with the iraqis and to eager to get into their world and thought it the contacts lourdes chaotic andt overeager andh counterproductive and he said keeping this this guy out of my a area. that is the minority opinion but he pissed off and shouting matches with the marine colonel's at headquarters who said don't talk to satr he said he will be the key and the battles with rage. they didn't think very inugly of him.adn

was the an important figure for good at that point* in time? no question. >> that seems maybe like an interesting place to stop. anybody half have any questions about patriquin or the book or t9? >> our be happy to answer to them it. the cia says sometimes they get davis wright and this is the case they threw some money around to help them signed up thousands of recruits so they ran the shadows of all of this to facilitate to the awakening. it may have been a case of that. >> is there a shot of history will ever hear of this caa involvement was it

covert? >> sure.er targeted killings, and it reads, great frequency and pretty effective in the environment is. >> that helped to turn opinionr against al qaeda because they felt we could be effective and making lives more difficult? >> sure. there was of a death squad against al qaeda called the hour revolutionaries of anbar and do a night raid on suspected terrorists to kill them to put warnings to say we're coming after you read know who you are our day she youomr are and they adapted them.

favor is thought to be a linked to the awakening in the response is basically don't ask too manym questionsf we don't want to know. that went on in parallel indo whole environment. i don't know of any major mistakes death squad made but that help to scare the at of the al qaedaa fighters.ke they wrote to in this period said dastardly organization that to that was due for al qaeda. something new. they were pretty pumped up on the battlefield but this started to turn the tablese they sent to cable and said

something important isse happening in anbar province that gets washington to payant attention that they alerteda the chain of command this is all before the search of referred george bush madeenti the courageous decision to pump tens of thousands of our troops the following year and t. -- satr said god love them but we don't need the extra troops. they cannot figure out the things like we can we can do ourselves. he was almost anti-surge and very skeptical of the question to facilitate the sunni arabs defensive they can associate government. >> it seems like we got lucky satrnt was not just tony

soprano of iraq is somebody we could trust. heard it mentioned that to capt. and patriquin wanted to see the good of alldi peopledn but could this lead to a trouble because we did geta lucky but this terrine george w. bush tole say even chamberlain and roadwork toi to say how did you know, ? obviously gross speculation but how did he know he was trustworthy her before he decided to trust satr and not somebody else's? >> there is nobody but satr in this environment and things were such who hold there was nowhere to go but up.ne it was a very lucky