yeah, it's commander in chief. but i've done them all. and as i asked you earlier, do you think changing an outsider -- or excuse me, changing an insider with another insider -- whether it's a wall street insider or whether it's a washington insider is really going to change washington, dc. i'm the one person on that stage who is an outsider. i'm the one person on that stage who has a record of 11 years' worth of operating a major entity. and working in the same environment, basically, with democrats and republicans and have been successful at it. i'm the one individual who has been a consistent, social and fiscal conservative for my entire life. and for that reason, i ask you to vote your values, vote who you think can best step into

that role and i cannot wait to get on the stage and draw that stark contrast between myself and my record and barack obama. [applause] >> what would you like, mom voters out there, to know about your husband to be potential president. >> we didn't take this decision lightly. we put ourselves out for america to look, to give a serious look at us. two things that come to my mind, jobs. we need america back to work again. and we need a leader and my husband is both a leader, as the longest-serving governor in the state of texas, and also he's -- he knows how to create that environment for jobs. we want the america again that we had growing up and i just i want everyone to really look at his record, don't listen to the rhetoric like he said before, look at his record and he can

get america back. [applause] >> and the cameras are trying to focus in on this. i'm into footwear. i want you guys -- which is cooler, his boots or my shoes. >> his boots. >> tell them what the boots said. >> what's it stay in the back here. 1824. >> it says 1824 in the back and the front of the boot says -- >> i use these boots when i go to schools from time to time to teach history. and that flag on the front is the flag that was made from a wedding dress in 1835 in a little town called gonzalez where the frontier -- the

mexican government had been rather unfair to texans. and so they had loaned us is couple canons to protect against raids from the indians and then they thought about it and they said, maybe giving those texans those canons wasn't such a great idea. [laughter] >> and so they sent an envoy to ask for the canons back. [laughter] >> and the flag was made and the little canon and the -- come and take it. and so the first shots fired in the revolution that started texas towards its independence as a republic was at gonzalez and they tried to come take the canons and they were unsuccessful. and then the flag on the back is a mexican tri-color with the date 1824 embroidered in the middle of it. that's the flag that was flying at the alamo. and the reason 1824 was on there

is because that was the date of the constitution of which texans were living under mexican rule at that particular time and they flew that over the alamo to remind santa ana and you are here but you did not live up to your word on this constitution, you know, the alamo didn't turn out that well for us. [laughter] >> but six weeks later at a place called san jacinto, sam houston defeated santa ana and the republic of texas was created. and it's thanks to people like williambaric travis and james butler bonham and a lot of folks from tennessee and other states who came to fight for freedom. >> and it reminds me about service and sacrifice. and as i tell young people, listen, i don't care whether you

join the peace corps or the marine corps but you need to give back to this country because freedom is not free and as we said earlier, we're only one generation away from losing our freedoms. and that i will suggest to you is the most important issue in this election that we're facing. [applause] >> the history lesson of the day. >> an unexpected history lesson. thank you both so much. >> now, we're going to be back here at 1:00 for you moms with a special message recorded just for you from steven colbert. [laughter] >> do you have any messages -- >> no mas? >> 1:30 rick santorum will be here. governor and mrs. perry, this was fantastic. thank you so much. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> thank you all for coming. >> we lived in houston. all know about it. [inaudible conversations] >> she's the grandmother and i'm the great grandmother. [inaudible conversations] >> we're proud of you.

>> that's awesome. he's down in dallas. [inaudible conversations] >> good luck to him. it would be great to have him on the commission. >> good luck. >> thank you so much. [inaudible conversations] >> you got friends in south carolina. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> okay. let me do this and i'll turn right around. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> stay in this race. you're the best thing we've got. >> thank you, ma'am. >> okay, miranda, yes, ma'am, let me get miranda right here. [inaudible conversations] >> i actually flew -- i flew on the mississippi guard bird in kuwait city. it was an old e model. i probably flew this thing it was so old. i tried to actually -- the last two years i've not gotten back into theater just because i had elections and what have you. and -- but i've been over there four, five times. and it is -- those kids are just incredible. i love them. i love them, i love them. our guard stays deployed. a portion of them stays deployed on a pretty regular basis somewhere in theater. anyway, thank you for your service. >> my husband flies --

[inaudible conversation] >> tell him thanks for his service. where did he go to school? >> he went to ole miss. >> this is my third time to be around you. [inaudible conversations] >> thank you so much. >> you got us? thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> my son's an eagle scout. [inaudible conversations] >> that's even awesome. [inaudible conversations] >> you know what? i think we have -- you know, i have some young people who are artistic and have gotten their eagle scouts and, you know -- there's a role for every one of us in life, it's just finding out where that is. it may be really extraordinary in the standpoint -- he may not have a job like the rest of us have, but there's a place -- i mean, because he's done that, i

mean, the talents that he has, it's just -- it's just finding the place where those talents can be. >> thank you. >> just push the joystick. >> i got it. all right. >> thank you. >> can i take a picture. >> sure. come on. >> thank you, sir. >> yes, sir. >> i love you. >> god bless you. >> thank you. >> right here. >> thank you. thank you. >> tebow's girl. >> yes, sir. that's me. that's me. he's awesome. i love that guy. >> isn't he? >> i'm telling you. >> i hope you didn't think i was saying there's a liberal stuff in texas. i lived there. i love texas. >> not at all. >> no, ma'am. i knew exactly what you were asking. >> hey, rick -- [inaudible conversations]

>> i wonder if i could get a picture so i could put it on cafemom. >> oh, no, i want to be where she is 'cause the light's better. >> did that picture not take? >> i wanted somebody to take it of you and me. >> okay. yeah. >> okay. one more, okay? thank you. >> thank you. i will post that later today. i got a bunch of ladies looking at this. >> all right. you come on in here. >> >> will you take -- oh, i'm sorry. i was looking at the wrong guy. >> one, two, three, gotcha. gotcha. okay. >> i was so excited when you got in. god bless you. >> we'll just keep working. >> troy, are we going to get a picture? >> yes, sir. >> yes, sir. >> grab this little girl in the red. >> yes, sir. >> thank you so much. >> right up here. >> thank you for your service. >> hey come on, john.

>> well, how about that? >> i had a pen but i don't know what i did with it. >> i'm sure it's in there. hang on to that one. [inaudible conversations] >> thank you. >> good job. >> i wonder what i did with that. that is kind of bizarre. i wonder if it fell out in my pocket. >> oh, he lost his pen. >> i know, but it's just weird because i had it. >> is that it? >> no. who knows what i did with it. [inaudible conversations] >> i'm going to hunker down so i can -- >> that's good. >> will you do me a favor and sign this for my daughter. she's 4. >> what's her name. >> mackenzie.

>> mackenz-a-c-k-e-n-z-i-m-a-c-. >> i know, we got to have it. >> thank you so much. thank you. >> one more picture? >> will you all excuse me. my little nose is running. >> okay. [inaudible conversations] >> a little bird. okay. right here. >> thank you. and thank you for answering my question. >> oh, yes, ma'am. >> you did great. [laughter] >> sorry. >> let's go. let's go. >> thanks. >> modern technology. awesome. >> okay. check that because i think she moved it. are we fuzzy?

>> yeah >> hold it real still until it flashes the second time. i know, me too. those you have to hold them real still and it will flash twice. >> hold still, hold it. >> then you got it. [laughter] >> guarantee you. >> let me shake your hand, governor. >> yes, sir. thank you for coming out. >> keep the fight on. >> yes, sir. >> come in here. get in here. >> that's fine, you can do yours first. >> both of our sons got their eagle scout. [inaudible conversations] >> congratulations. tell him well done. >> yeah, i should be up there on the wood. [laughter] >> i miss you when you went to georgetown technical college. i stood outside and waited. >> we had a great time. >> that was fabulous. oh, sure. i find the short one. >> alan cummings is a big supporter of yours.

>> and a big scouter. thank you. >> adelia. >> adelia. >> nice to meet you. >> love that name. that's southern. >> is it your son or daughter. >> my son is getting ready -- he's getting ready to go to afghanistan. >> this is my mom and my aunt. >> thank you. >> i appreciate it. >> we'll keep him in our prayers. >> bless you. >> amen. amen. thank you. >> thank you. >> very good. whatever you do, you stay in. and god bless. there's a reason. >> i had a friend who couldn't come. she couldn't come. >> what's her name. >> pat sullivan. >> pat? >> yes. >> oh, she's going to go nuts. she's going to go crazy. thank you.

thank you. thank you. oh, she's going to be -- [inaudible conversations] >> yes, ma'am. >> and when you said about the immigration, huge. >> yes, ma'am. >> you gave us practical solutions to the problems we need and we've been facing every day. you know, and education -- if you give interviews like this all the time -- seriously -- >> yes, ma'am, oh, i understand. >> people say this is -- >> yep. >> i'm doing a congressional hearings. i've been around newt gingrich and i've been in d.c. you give us practical solutions to the problems we face just like you did today, especially with illegal immigration and you answered that question. no more red tape. the red honest to goodness solutions that will see why -- explain to us, do it. >> yes, ma'am.

>> mom, okay. come on. >> there we go. >> god bless you. take care of yourself. [inaudible conversations] >> my dad -- there were three texas brothers that came -- and i want to say the early 1600 -- excuse me, early 1700s because somebody did a little bit of work, and we have one of the perries who fought in the revolutionary war in 1776. he was born in 1760 and so -- and he was from north carolina. so -- >> we're real people, man. i just wanted to tell you that. it's hard to find that these

days. >> yes, sir. >> just keep it up. >> is he a family member. [inaudible conversations] >> well, as you heard moderator frank luntz say this forum will continue this afternoon. rick santorum and his wife karen will answer questions from the cafemom crowd that's at 1:00 pm on c-span. the south carolina primary is this coming saturday you can watch c-span single digit for results and candidate speeches. after there it's onto florida with its presidential primary that's january 31st. february fourth caucuses will get underway in nevada and maine. follow the candidates at debates, town hall meetings, campaign rallies and more on the c-span television networks. c-span radio and at c-span.org.

>> i believe that it is important to emphasize that while it's great to have this memorial to his moral to his memory and it's great to have streets and schools and hospitals named in his honor all over our nation and world, it is also important to not place too much emphasis on martin luther king the idol be. but not enough emphasis on the ideals of martin luther king, jr., >> take a look at the life and legacy of dr. martin luther king, jr., the civil rights movement and race relations in america today online at the c-span video library. search, watch, clip and share. it's what you want, when you want. >> pakistan's supreme court today found the country's prime minister in contempt. the judge ordered the prime minister to appear before the court this week. they want to know why he hasn't opened a corruption investigation against the

pakistani president. last week the hudson institute hosted a discussion on political stability in pakistan. this is about 90 minutes. >> good morning. i'm a senior fellow of the hudson institute and a director on its center islam democracy and the future of the muslim world. it is my duty to welcome you to this event, whose subject is pakistan, the crisis state. and -- i mean, i'm welcoming all of you here in this room as well as our c-span audience. this duty is an important one. but also for me a personally sad one. it is an important duty because pakistan is an important country. and also a country in the midst of a great crisis, a crisis which affects important american

interests as well as pakistan's own. it is a personally sad one because a most grave expression of this crisis are the difficulties, the undeserved difficulties of hussein haqqani until recently pakistan's ambassador to the united states. hussein is an old friend of mine, a former colleague, and a former colleague of other people here at hudson. among other things, together hussein and i founded the journal called current trends in islamist ideology. from the first hussein's interest in this venture was to address and hopefully redress the dangerous and destructive forces abroad in the muslim world generally but also in his native pakistan. in accord with his faith in islam, and as a pakistani patriot, he strived with all his

great energy, intelligence, and courage to help to find a way forward for the health of his country, and his relations with other countries including the united states. eventually, it became his lot to pursue that ambition as the pakistani ambassador. his fulfillment of his duties came at a most difficult time in u.s. and pakistani relations. perhaps the most difficult ever. still, hussein took up this task and defended his country and its interests with exemplary vigor and skill. no one in washington is in any doubt about this or his dedication to the cause of pakistan. but all are amazed at the success he achieved. for his pains he now finds himself under virtual house arrest at risk of his very life. a serious risk in a country

which has in the past year already seen several political murders. why is he in this situation? well, he knew his endeavor to protect and advance his country stands accuse of betraying it. by whom is he accused? by a man who many -- many people know him and have known him for many years, who describe him as a serial liar and a con man, active in these low arts for nearly 20 years. and whose evidence is nonexistent. in other times, these charges would receive no credit. unhappily in today's pakistan, they do. this is, i think, not because these charges are actually believed but because they are deemed in the present circumstances useful in the low and dangerous political

struggles that now is part of pakistan, a struggle that has reached heightened tensions in the past few days. as i said earlier, the crisis of pakistan and i should add the shame of pakistan. it is the double shame of men who speak of honor but instead dishonor themselves with attacks on their most loyal, genuinely loyal, and able sons. perhaps they will come to reflect upon this, reflect upon what true honor requires. perhaps discover what a great american president abraham lincoln who once described as the bitter angels of their nature. i hope so. and pray so. pray that hussein will soon be able to return to his great and patriotic vocation, the health

of his country. for the present, it is my last duty to turn over our broader discussion to our panelists. let me only add that they are all lifelong students, distinguished students, and lifelong friends of pakistan. and all associated with the most distinguished institutions in washington. their presence here today and the discussion they will provide testifies to their concern for pakistan and its relations with the united states as well as their concern for hussein haqqani. it's now my privilege and pleasure to turn the proceedings ov over. thank you very much. >> well -- [applause] >> thank you, hillel. i'm going to remain seated as my fellow panelists have decided to do. but i wanted to set the stage

for this discussion. the invitation you received referred to pakistan the crisis state. we do meet at a time of crisis in pakistan. it is first of all i would say a clash of institutions, the civilian elected government dueling with both the army and the supreme court. the supreme court whose independence it proudly reaffirmed during the days after president musharraf tried to fire the chief justice, but the definition of that independence at the moment, at the very least, is up for grabs. in the past the supreme court has been severely -- has been

overtly controlled by the elected governments and has always shown deference to the military. it's not clear that both of those dimensions of independence are still in full vigor. secondly, another dimension of the current crisis is a clash within the civilian political sphere. this is by no means new to pakistan. in fact, i would say it's the normal order of business. but you have a government headed by the ppp and opposition in which the pakistan muslim league nowaz is the prime move and you now have a third actor in ron hahn in which one of his admirers described a year ago as having fans but not supporters. [laughter] >> it appears that he now has some supporters, whether that is

going to change his ability to gather votes at the polls, we will only know when the polls happen, but he has certainly become an important part of the political landscape. i know that a number of people in the room just came from a skyped conversation with him in which he said some things that were quite familiar and some things that were less familiar. the big themes that we wanted to pursue this morning are two that are tremendously important for pakistan's future and indeed for any country's future. one is justice and the other is rule of law. each of my fellow panelists will have a perspective on this. i would just like to end my introduction on a more personal note. my husband and i lived in pakistan in the mid-1970s. our older son was a year old when we got there. our younger son was born there. the news of the assassination

clutched at our hearts not for the reason that many people shared that this was a voice of toleration that had been killed by his bodyguard, but also because he was killed a few feet from where we used to go to the bookstore and the barbershop and the playground where our kids played on the seesaw on sunday afternoons. ..

>> as she suggested i've been looking at pakistan some 40 years now. and as a pakistan observer i don't know there has been anytime in that period, when characterized pakistan as a normal state. i know when you used the term, crisis and you have a crisis all the time, the

term crisis loses its meaning. so i'm asking here before we begin this more specific discussion, i'm asking here, whether, whether there is something deeper involved here? deeper in the body politic. deeper in the political culture of pakistan, of which this is the latest and perhaps the, in the order things one of the most dangerous crises. after all there is certain degree of cumulative effect here. you know, how do these, lately these developments and the ones that precede them, how do they relate to a system which, in which few people have faith in their institutions? in which there is a deep distrust of authority.

where justice and the rule of law is so easily violated and regularly violated? where so much of what goes on is blamed on outside forces. where there is regular denial of responsibility. outside forces, i might mention that are plotting to weaken and, indeed overthrow the state and take the state's assets from it. a society where what once was, set of ideas about, something like 9/11. today is a virtual consensus in the country, about it

being an american plot, perhaps an american zionist plot. this is generally believed throughout the country and it is only, it is only one of many such beliefs which, at least as an outside observer one finds so difficult to understand. the obsession here with india and lately with the united states. i could go on and you could go on and certainly everyone on this panel can give us far better examples here. well, could i sum this up, let me give you a list. long-term lack of trust. feelings of lurking danger. interpretation of the

actions of others as hostile. misconstrue friendly actions looking for hidden motives. conspiratorial explanation of events. easily slighted. in denial, refusing to accept responsibility. difficult in its relationships. now you may think i abstracted this from some of my remarks. actually, that list comes from googling. googling the term, paranoia. these are the textbook, classic, clinical syndromes

of the paranoid personality. i was astounded. there were none there i would have said, that is clearly not, clearly doesn't belong. so if pakistan is as we've said, a crisis state and others by the way have other labels. it's been called a national security state. it's been called a insecurity state. lately it's been called a hard country. do we also have to say it's a paranoid state but go further than that and say, it's a paranoid society? because that's what we're really talking about here. it's not just a matter of the elites interacting. we're talking about something which is far more pervasive and deeper into, as i say, the political

culture and the body politic. now is this fair? is it fair to throw around terms like this? after all individuals are not nations. what is said and done in the interests of the state obviously can down very rational and i don't mean to demean pakistan. i do mean to understand it. now, also there are individuals who clearly are far away from this in pakistan today. individualing who have shown enormous courage in being a voice of sanity but they are embattled and that's why we're here today. it's not peculiar to pakistan. other tries have experienced -- countries

have experienced periods of paranoia including this country but there seems to be something more resilient with we're talking about in pakistan. and it doesn't mean that everything that's being said by any means is irrational but if you look at the assumptions on which these, this dialogue often occurs, you find that those are indeed nonrational. i could go on here and such a part to it all and brings an imran khan, while believe there is world is hostile, there are figures that can deliver us, the good against the evil. i don't have time to develop that notion but let me now conclude by saying, so what's the value in using these terms?

can it better help us understand here what to do? so let's go back to the textbook and see what the textbook suggests. it says, first of all, that it's not really cureable but it is manageable. it says that there are no single therapies that, formulas of political, political policies which are somehow going to change things. i'm putting this now in, in state terms but there are no therapies which as such can work. no silver bullets. it says, don't get angry. it says, don't act in a threatening manner because it only exacerbates the symptoms. don't expect that the

individual is going to understand its problems. so, finally then, where is the application? you know, it's easy to deal with this if you want to break the relationship. you move on. you have no interaction. but if that relationship needs to be preserved, if it is of interest to preserve it, then we have to go back again to what is suggested about how you ultimately manage it, and you manage it, the textbooks tell us, the clinical textbooks, with regular interaction. yes, engagement. that's the management therapy that's recommended.

and in interstate terms, that means diplomacy with keeping in mind the limitations. intrastate terms it means democracy. both of these are processes. both of these don't assume easy, short-term solutions. so, there is here a formula after all. it is not one which is very satisfying. it is not one which answers our problems immediately. but again, if it is worth preserving, it is what we've got to work with. i will now turn the panel back to the crisis at hand but i thought that this was

perhaps useful to understand that the problem may be far bigger than just the immediate events that we are confronting. thank you. >> thank you, marvin. our next speaker is dr. christine fair, assistant professor at georgetown. dr. fair has written on everything from politics to food. i believe she is going to be a little closer to the political end of that spectrum this morning. >> all right. i will try to leave all pork jokes aside but i have got bacon on the brain. let's talk briefly about what memogate is. i believe we all heard about it, let's put it into some construct call context. we can have to understand where hussein. he has done things bizarre. he has credibility of a snake ostensibly deliver ad

memo to then joint chief of the joint staff, admiral mullen who said he actually to the got the memo but thought it was so insane and didn't regard it and didn't act upon it. this death of bin laden which we they was a very tenuous time for pakistan. had the privilege of being in pakistan two days after bin laden got whacked. kind of like going to the michael jackson neverland ranch. it was really, really biz are is a. whatever was the, what was actually going on, vis-a-vis the fajies or the army thinking will be left for historians to decide. memo alleged crew was in the brewing, assessment i personally didn't not share. the memo requested the united states government intervene to help put the army back in its place. in exchange for doing so the author of the memo promised that the pakistan government would be civilian controlled, would pursue more sane

policies with respect to the india, nuclear proliferation as well as groups. in other words for the most part what was being offered in the memo pakistan would behave as its constitution in fact tells it too, right? so what very few people have had the sort of sense of saying is that even if this memo was authoredgy this government it is hardly treason. it is simply articulating and requesting the united states to reinches force the constitutional structure that pakistan actually has. by the way, not first, last only time some sort of pakistani official has asked the u.s. government to get involved in pakistan's internal affairs. the first which i believe was pakistan's first premier, he actually said if the americans would help the pakistan army he wouldn't even raise an army, right? but somehow that has not been, this is khan. this memo provided that it was real and authored by a pakistani official. the first last and still not only time did the army howl

when mao shar after came here with his hand out asking for a check and other stuff. let's put this in context. this was not unique in any way, shape or form. but the pakistan supreme court, how did the supreme court get involved in this. what is the nature of the proceeding with hussein haqqani involved? those who have been watching the supreme court, it has been characterized as independent. i think that is grotesque mischaracterization. it is very interventionist. it is activist, right? it has powers that our supreme court does not have. it has sui moto powers t can take up an issue if it thinks are public importance. we can question whether the issues it takes up are personal importance of the supreme court justice in question, right? that is different debate i don't want to go into here. where this particular case came to be, is another interpretation of the pakistan's constitution that

anyone can petition the highest court, which ordinarily is the highest court of appeal, the court of last resort, if the issue pertains to a fundamental deprivation of human rights. and so under this clause, this provision of the supreme court, sharif who claims he is a democrat says that this memo in fact violates this fundamental right to liberty abouts in that therefore it is the subject of the supreme court. so the first ruling that the supreme court engaged in was whether or not sharif's petition was maintainable. concluding it was maintainable it ordered a collection of judges to rule in four weeks on the dispensation of the memo. where did it come from and who wrote it? what make this is particularly curious and also inindividual just is whether or not, hussein

haqqani's lawyers argued it wasn't maintainable. that was obviously lost. when take this particularly invidious, hussein himself is not being tried. that is not what the supreme court was evaluating because there have been no charges filed in any other lower court. which has in all judicial proceedings there have to be charges filed. what this process allowed the supreme court working, i believe, if not explicit collusion with the military but in a parallel simpatico with the military has allowed various pieces of so-called evidence which have not been forensicly validated. there have been no custodial chains, there is no custodial chains for these evidence, to be entered into the supreme court, put into vary affidavits and wandered on its website. for example, take a very concrete issue the blackberry exchanges.

there has been no forensic evaluation of authenticity of those blackberry exchanges. he writes in his affidavit and he explains this is how this blackberry chaex exchanges connects mr. hussein haqqani in the memo n court of law that would be wouldn't be considered, right? there is no forensic evidence validating the blackberry exchanges much less tying the blackberry exchanges to the memo, right. because there have been no charges filed there is no requirement to do so. this also means that mr. haqqani can not, was not allowed to file a counter narrative. to explain actually, he says how i explain the particular blackberry messages. he never denied the blackberry messages at least the most recent communication does not suggest that however, all of this information is being turned in pakistan's public domain, right? so in other words, hussein

haqqani is essentially being labeled as a traitor. there is no actual evidence that has been forsenically validated presented before the court. so, in other words, this is really trial by media circus. we want to take on the other kinard of pakistan, this free, vibrant media. it is the freest and most vibrant media you can buy the isi can influence. i know countless journalists who are simply speaking on the isi payroll. anybody knows pakistani journalists will back this up. it is in the entirely this free press. also shazad might have his own views to which the press is entirely free. it is really important we understand what is actually going on here. i have written a piece and i think it is out and something i wrote last year where i talk about the role of the supreme court in manipulating pakistan's

democracy going back over a year ago. in my view, while we're, many of us are concerned because we worked with with variety of capacities are friends with former ambassador hussein haqqani. we understand what this is. this is my view, i can't speak for other panelist as slow-moving coup. this is a way in which the military has at its proposal to bring down the government. how is this slow-moving coup? this is my interpretation of events. this has some similarity benazir's father. how they coerced him to become approver in pakistani parlance. in our pa ever parlance, basically a witness for the state. one interpretation, indeed when i met with hussein haqqani last week, this is his interpretation. they're trying to use this proceeding to scare the bejesus out of him or put the fear of allah in him,

whatever your prefered metaphor is, to get him to give up the goods on zardari to bring this government down. this is a well-worn playbook that this military has at its disposal. i want to also emphasize that before i wrap it up this is the second judicial mechanism this court is using to go after this government. you may have remembered when part of the u.s. effort to launder musharraf's legitimacy you there the ballot box through benazir bhutto there was rec sillization order. that order among other things dropped various core are up shuns charges against ppp members. oddly not pln. not oddly enough. that was the purpose of it. it paved the way for her to come back and contest elections. and obviously the plan of laundering musharraf legitimacy through her electoral legitimacy failed when she was killed. that is how we ended up with zardari. but the supreme court had

been very dubious about that nro to begin with. with zardari became president the supreme court raised the possibility it would vacate nro. you may remember one of the early rows after the election between the pmln and the ppp who in the wake of election actually formed a coalition was the restoration of supreme court justice that musharraf actually had jettisoned and that was choudry. this row between choudry and zardari goes back several years. we should not see this as some sort of new phenomenon. but this particular track with hussein haqqani and memogate really relates as well to the vacation of the nro. so the in conclusion i really, while we all care about haqqani i want to emphasize this is simply not about the particular personal safety or lack thereof of mr. haqqani but

it is also about pakistan's democratic institutions. the only way that pakistan's democratic institutions can solidify, there are multiple, constitutionally mandated changes of power that happen at the ballot box, right? using judicial means and media to pro-rogue this government and briefly end my remarks with kahn. why the nro? why is it coming back now when they actually vacated two years ago? there is really big reason. if you're the army you don't want nawaz sharif around. we know nawaz sharif with the army. the army is not found of zardari. not as if you had a palatable option. not coincidence that kahn's fortunes changed significant way. he went from a political joke to being a political force. course is not the right word, i just came back from pakistan. he is able to persuade kajol

with the help of the writing turncoat politicians to join his party. they're vacating their seat in the national assembly with explicit goal of trying to bring about early elections. in answering the question why are the nro being brought back now? the army now has a chance. if we care about pakistan's democracy as well as hussein haqqani the united states government has to be more vocal than we've been. we have to recognize this a coup albeit by judicial hue. thank you. [applause] >> thank you, christine. our next speaker is steven cohen of brookings institution. before that, of the university of illinois and urbana-champagne. steve and i are now colleagues at brookings and he has in particular been a watcher of the pakistan army

but i believe that what he has to say will go beyond that. steve? >> thank you. s. let me say that brookings is pleased to cosponsor this event and i'm pleased to participate in it but i'm happy it is taking place at hudson. years ago when i was graduate student i attended lectures by herman khan who founded hudson later in his career. herman khan was futureo. lgists in the united states. his interest was nuclear weapons. he described world war iiies to sevens. he had a book will survivors envy the dead. the answer was no. in the case of a large thermonuclear war. quite a remarkable person. but we're in the same position ha her man khan was. our imagination knows no

limits but still hard to say what will actually happen. humans are blessed or cursed with the ability to look ahead and imagine the future. we're also cursed by an inability to actually know what the future will be. so this is an exercise in futureology and spins out of the book i edited called, the future of pakistan. i want to look at pakistan the crisis state, the state marinated in crisis. how it will look. what are alternative futures for pakistan drawing from that book and writings of others. a cautionary note, ambassador jack matlock, former ambassador of soviet union, i'm paraphrasing here, he wasn't sure what would happen to the soviet union but when it happened he would explain why it was inevitable. so we could come here a couple of months from now and say it was inevitable this happened or that happened. i think a lot of, large dose of humility is required when talking about things like pakistan for nuclear war for that matter. let's talk about pakistan today and tomorrow.

i think the present crisis began with the 1999 musharraf coup. really from 1965 onward pakistan has been in crisis. after musharraf's failure or collapse as a leader, i think the hope of for pakistan gave way to deep pessimism. a lot of the literature, a lot of writings about pakistan is characterized by deep pessimism but i detect in this late literature four broad scenarios about the future of pakistan. one is, first one is, not that the most popular but many donant one seems to be the muddling through scenario. muddling through is not a slang term, charles lindbergh wrote a article about the science of muddling through. you're not quite sure what you to do. you do a lot things hope that some things come through. it is policy of hope. the forces of youty and coherence will insure it will not dramatic i change soon.

despite chaos it is best to assume stability. this is the view of jonathan paris. wrote a fine study out of london about the future of pakistan and the book, pakistan the hard state. our book on the future of pakistan, but our book only at least my chapter only goes looks ahead five years. in a sense muddling through but with a shorter time frame. there are two other scenarios are variations on muddling through. one is muddling through plus and muddling through minus. muddling through minus is book by former ambassador to the united states and renowned journalist and, i call this is the if, if syndrome. that, and malia argue it is a collection of essays many who make other arguments if pakistan can only reform its economy, if only relations could be normalized, if only terrorists can be tamed, if only this can happen, if only that can happen, if is the operative word here, but

after that then there is a bright prospect for pakistan. nobody doubts pakistan has or perhaps had a bright future given research, talent of its people its location. pakistan has a lot of resources a lot of assets but clearly it has underperformed in many ways. muddling through positive scenario is if all of these things happen at, when we had the meeting to discuss our book, i rule, i for some discussions i ruled out the term if. a conversation around pakistan should not include the word if. if you start using the word if, if this happens, if this happens, then of course it is a glorious future. we should ban the word if in these conversations. muddling through minus scenario is quite different. it is characterized by john schmidt's recent book on unraveling pakistan. bruce riedel's writings and book of his. armageddon and pakistan. or referring to the, he also referred to the emirate of pakistan. in a new book come out, coming out, pakistan own the

brink. that is second book i've seen of that title. they argue pakistan may not muddle through. and may not muddle through for one particular reason. all three authors are concerned with the reason. islamist factor will overcome good intentions good ability and good people, drive pakistan not to destruction to worse and worse scenarios. all those authors pick on the islamist factor as a critical variable in a negative future for pakistan. they don't predict catastrophe but they're less optimistic. certainly than others about what happens if muddling through doesn't work . .

it's a very different pakistan then professor weinbaum or in and the 1970s when i visited first in 1977 so pakistan is changing the changing in bits and pieces in ways that are not always blessed but in some cases changing for the good. now to conclude, pakistan is a crisis state, or crises sequentially crisis, and why is this the case? because it is a paradoxical state. the paradox is a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or observed that may express a truth. there are many paradoxes but a least three i think are important for this discussion. first is the political paradox. as i've said aristotle talked

about mixed constitutions, pakistan is part democracy, part military autocracy. you can't tell at any given moment what stayed pakistan is and in innocents that's an asset of pakistan being a chameleon state. it behaves like neither all the time and which pakistan we are dealing with at any given moment. second there is a nuclear paradox. pakistan like north korea's to nuclear to fail. nuclear weapons do nothing to advance the economy, deal with the many domestic problems, to pakistan's own population but that is all they do. now there are -- that doesn't bring pakistan many advantages. i do agree with the a.q. khan that having nuclear weapons has kept the indians out of pakistan that indians might not have been interested in invading in any case. so some of herman khan's or scenarios may come true if pakistan follows a nuclear been.

talk about war between the americans and the soviets a thermonuclear exchange. riosa wrote about catalytic work where a smaller nuclear state triggered off a war between major nuclear states. here think pakistan relationship with india and china is something that deserves further study. of course the new issue that kahn, the issue of nuclear terrorism. a third paradox in pakistan's relations with other major powers is deeply problematic. it is america's most dangerous allied. the india pakistan relations are better than u.s.-pakistan relations. it professes to be a democracy but it's the three most important allies of the people's republic of china, north korea and saudi arabia. so, pakistan's identity i think, think marvin hinted at this is problematic that i am confident that there are enough good people in pakistan to put husain haqqani at the top of the list who could really manage the state were they given me opportunities to do so so crises

are going to continue. the fact of the military may takeover and form does not trouble me. it troubles me the most is the deeper underlying transformation of pakistan that is going on right before ours. i have some comments of policies that i will -- after lisa. >> thank you very much, steve. before we get to our final speaker i'm reminded that professor fair has to leave at 11:30 so i thought that, if there were one or two questions that specifically touch on the legal and judicial issues that she raised, i would take them now and then we will turn to our final panelist. could i remind you if you're going to ask a question to identify yourself and your affiliation, even if i know you. and to wait for the for the mico that our lecturers on c-span can also hear your question.

a question down here in front. wait for the mic. >> thank you. i am with the pakistan american league. christine has a very good handle on the -- the haqqani case i think he has read it more than anybody else and no warsh sharif was the chief judiciary and he was opposing benazir bhutto the prime minister. achieve -- achievements of no warsh's -- no warsh sharif -- and then he was subsequently advised to know was sharif when he was the prime minister so i think, the case is -- and if anybody wants to help

haqqani, i think one needs to hire a good attorney who knows international law. and i think that would be helpful for him. if that can be done, -- one thig i assure you there is not one single thing on the future of democracy of pakistan. thank you. >> thank you. >> if there is another question for dr. fair. i will take it. right there. >> professor christine fair -- >> could you identify yourself please? >> i am a freelance writer. i am from baluchistan. i would like to please ask you, the tragedy that mr. haqqani faces is more or less the tragedy of pakistan. may i please ask you, instead of

the -- that were hiding bin laden bing ousted, the ambassador was trying to control islamic radicalism. if his life is threatened as it clearly show pakistan is afraid? >> i can accept the premise of that question. bizarre premises that i don't accept so let's go back to clearly what is the case with us on haqqani. his first information report, charges have been filed against him. without any charges having been filed he voluntarily went back. his passport was seized and he lives under virtual house arrest of the irony is he is experiencing fundamental depravation. thank you for pointing out that the relationship between the current supreme court justice and know was sharif goes way back to gus sharif was his prime

champion and that was the reason why the coalition between the ppp broke apart in the first place over the disposition of the supreme court justice and that sharif's and zardari. i also want to point out, this is pakistan's judicial system. the supreme court is very different in that it has been pushing the perimeter of what it is allowed to do and it gets away with it because it's the only arbiter of actually what it does. but curiously, while hussein is not subject to charges and this has become oddly enough memogate has become a proxy discussion about hussein committing treason, i was actually in pakistan for the last month so i don't know how much this has been picked up here, another one of the things he said in his various changes that were subsequently published was that the director general of the isi, general caccia, went to the gulf

seeking permission to sax zardari. in fact to leave one journalist wrote about this and became quite explosive in pakistan in the subsequently is no longer in pakistan but what is curious is that he actually did do that under article vi of the constitution. and where is this independent judiciary with its silly mode of concerns that is in taking up the question of caccia going to the gulf. that is very clearly in article vi, high treason offense if it's true. so i think, the point that you made about the relationship of the pln and the ppp on the supreme court justice and know was sharif very much is at core with what is going on. the court has not exercised similar interests in investigating whether he was part of an act of high treason should cast a lot of dubai the over the judicial proceedings that are ongoing.

>> i have one more question for professor fehr which has been submitted on twitter. >> it's not from you, is it? >> i don't know if the tweeter is identified. canvas was case which the prime minister is being pressed by the supreme court to reopen be reopened even if a letter is submitted? >> i don't no, but i absolutely have no idea -- i don't know the statutes of limitations with this case, but one other thing to note is that the supreme -- okay, look, zardari, we all know he is notorious for you know, extra market capitalization. [laughter] when i was a student, you know he was called mr. 10%, so there have been a number of charges against him and he spent some time in jail, and part of the

national order was dropping those charges. the 2009 supreme supreme court which again has i said has headed out for zardari for quite some time both personally and because of the support the supreme court justice received with sharif vacated that nro which had two applications. when they contested the legality of the current officeholders who had cases pending against them in the first instance, so for example folks sitting in office that contested elections, the entire viability of their elections in the first instances can be potentially invalidated and obviously zardari himself becomes vulnerable to charges within as well as without pakistan. the supreme court said something interesting pushing that envelope of what it can do because it says it can is that it has told president zardari that he is not automatically going to enjoy immunity from prosecution, that he actually has has to request immunity and obviously making such a

statement it's clear the court may not grant him immunity so this is part of this evolving set of actions that the supreme court has taken which i think clearly identifies it as being interventionist in absolutely colluding with those that have issues with this government to bring it down. >> thank you dr. fair and we will now move to our final speaker, lisa curtis of the heritage foundation. lisa has worked in the executive branch of the government and also on capitol hill, so she has a very broad perspective from which to address her topic which i believe is the implications of all those for u.s. policy. >> thank you, and thank you all for coming today and the heritage foundation also is very pleased and proud to co-sponsor this event today. so i was asked to look at u.s. policy options in dealing with pakistan, the crisis state.

clearly, the perpetual instability in the country, this escalating internal power struggle between civilian and military leadership makes it really difficult for the u.s. to develop a coherent policy towards pakistan and i think we have seen that with the response to the memogate affair. the memogate affair broke just before our thanksgiving holiday, and then right after a thanksgiving holiday you have the strike on november 26 against the pakistani soldiers, the native strike that killed 24 pakistani soldiers and sent u.s.-pakistani relations into a tailspin. >> so it certainly certainly has confiscated how the u.s. has responded to what is happening to husain haqqani. on two occasions the state department has spoken out. i agree with chris that this is not quite enough but let me just point out first of all they spoke out when monserrate

ijaz -- ijaz -- corrected the record and said that no pakistani officials were informed ahead of time before the men lawton operations. second was last friday. as you know, a group of us come including everybody at this table and several others have followed pakistan very closely wrote a letter to the administration calling on the administration to ensure that the person husain haqqani was protected, we have reason to believe his life might have been in danger and also that he was accorded due process of law. we were pleased that as we were in the process of drafting the letter, the state department did speak out in support of transparent treatment of husain haqqani, but aside from this, the u.s. has remained relatively quiet. i think they have their reasons

for this. one is what i explained, this nato airstrike which is calm but hated the military relationship, and certainly the u.s. you know, has not had good relations with the military for fighting terrorism. but the u.s. also has a very strong interest in seeing democracy succeed in pakistan. and i believe the zardari government is forced out, whether it be through the supreme court, it looks like the army is working in tandem with the supreme court albeit behind the scenes, that if the zardari government is forced out before its term is over, this is going to send a negative signal that civilian democracy has really not taken root in pakistan and the army still wields inappropriate control within the system and even though you know the zardari government may not be perfect in it's an elected government and we need to keep that in mind. not to mention the fact that

this crisis in the civil military relationship is distracting all of the leaders from dealing with some very serious problems whether it be the economic malaise affecting the country or the ongoing terrorist attacks we just saw a couple more series of terrorist attacks. all terrorist attacks are serious for that matter. in the last couple of days. i don't want to get into the details of the case because chris did an excellent job in doing now but i just want to point out, i have been disappointed with the pakistani media in not exploring more who is months or ijaz because the whole case involving serious issues revolves around the claims of one individual who was first noted has a certain reputation for exaggerating his role, particularly when it comes to important foreign-policy issues. this has been documented in the u.s. media, but i also want to point out because this happened

actually when i was a diplomat in pakistan from 94 to 96 in the first time i met husain haqqani he was information minister under benazir bhutto's government at that time but what happened in 1995 was when ijaz went to pluto with information about a potential colonels coup, colonels coup that was being planned within the army. now, benazir bhutto, call at it women's intuition, to take that information and go straight to the chief of the army staff, and we can ask why didn't ijaz go to the army chief of staff if the coup was being patched within the military, so i guess i would just say that, it seems that ijaz is involved in sewing the seeds of dissension and that seems to be one thing that we can say for sure about him. so whether the u.s. -- what are

the u.s. options in dealing with pakistan and i'm speaking more broadly not just the memogate issue but that of course is part of it. one option is the cooling down scenario and this is where it each country takes a step back from the relationship, reassesses, maybe the u.s. reduces aid, maybe pakistan pulls back in its cooperation, its counterterrorism cooperation. certainly there is no strategic dialogue. there is no of lions as such, but perhaps some cooperation on overlapping interest and not a complete cut off of u.s. assistance. now the only problem with this scenario is that pakistan itself is not cooling down. pakistan poses a threat to the region and beyond. extremists continue to wield influence in society. i think professor schaefer talked about -- assassination which is indicative of the

trends if not rising extremism, in the country, and inability of people opposed to extremism, able to raise their voices. you still have links between the lashkar-e-taiba and the military. which actually opens doors for jihadist to exploit and just to add to the complications pakistan is the fastest growing nuclear power in the world today. a study from another think-tank question the safety and security of those nuclear weapons. so thus ignoring pakistan is simply not an option for the u.s.. the second option in addition to this cooling down scenario is containment. people are thrown around us were containment for a few months now

in relation to pakistan policy. of course, the whole idea of containment was initially brought up by george kennan in 1947 and trying to stem the advanced -- advance of communism to be used in relationship to iraq and iran. i think it was president carter that started the policy of dual containment of iraq and iran, which of course went throughout the 80's and even into the '90s. now when we think of containment we think of north korea. we can even think of iran. so how would you think about containment in the case of pakistan? well, we might feel it is trying to stem the advance of terrorism and extremism. but the problem is pakistan itself is under threat from extremism. pakistani leaders are indirectly promoting this dangerous ideology by their physical support to groups that adhere to

it like they lashkar-e-taiba. bat at the same time most pakistani military officers are disdainful of the extremist ideology and they don't want their children to grow up in a society dominated by it. so how do you deal with a state institution that is willing to take risks to its own country's stability and willing to provide the support to the violent groups that it's ultimately does not control? i would deposit the trying to formulate policy towards such an institution that is both fighting and facilitating terrorism is next to impossible. so i have two minutes to talk about the last and what i believe is probably the most sensible u.s. policy approach, and this is one i will call principled flexible approach. there is no strategy, no containment, no engagement, just for engagement sakesay, but there are a few broad principle's that the u.s. lays down, but then allows itself the

flexibility to evolve to the unpredictable events in pakistan. so, some of the principles that i think would be important as one, standing up to civilian led democracy but not getting involved in the details of the power tussels that are happening. that is, the u.s. should be making statements, standing up for the importance of democracy but at the same time night try to actually shift the power balance within the country in one direction or the other. i think this almost always backfires when this is tried. the second principle is, just to accept that pakistan does not share the same priorities with regard to the terrorism issue. and this would lead to not providing pakistan undue influence in afghanistan, sort of recognize and recognizing we have different goals and for pakistan to participate in the

reconciliation process in afghanistan, they would have to demonstrate that they are willing to squeeze insurgents and use the leverage that they do have with the afghan taliban to bring them to the table to compromise. the third would be conditioning aid to pakistan but not cutting off. we are already moving in that direction. the congress recently passed legislation which would condition all aid to pakistan meeting certain counterterrorism benchmarks and we are already moving in that direction. some people say you know, why would you condition the eight. it's not going to work, to not going to change pakistan strategic calculations. but i would say that even if it doesn't change their calculations, at least the u.s. can stop throwing good money after bad, that the u.s. resources and that we should be deciding how to spend them based on you you now, with the u.s. is

actually seeing in return. the fourth would be working with partners to help shape pakistani behavior. this would start with the nato partners which is already happening to some degree but would also have to involve china and pakistan. pakistan was certainly played up with its relationship with china in the aftermath of the raid, but i think china's concern, china some concerns about pakistan's future stability will limit the extent to which it would want to bail pakistan out economically and it also opens the door for the u.s. to potentially be able to seek cooperation with china in convincing pakistan to take a more comprehensive view of against terrorism and extremism in the country. saudi arabia also would be a very important country for the u.s. to reach out to. the only confrontation there is saudi arabia is also interested in limiting iranian influence in afghanistan and so i think saudi

arabia would have to be convinced that the u.s. would have a long-term presence and commitment in afghanistan before it would really seriously work with the u.s. in trying to prevail on pakistan to crack down on the taliban. i'm going to end there. thank you very much for your attention. >> thank you lisa and thanks to all the panelists. [applause] and now, we will take questions. i would remind you once again, that if i call on you, and i will try to keep track of hands as they see them. if i call on you, please identify yourself and your affiliation, and please wait for the mic. the firsthand i saw was about in the middle there, sir. >> thank you. i have done some writing on asia. i want to speculate on three issues in fact and this will be

for the panel. one is the memogate. why now? two is -- wise mansoor ijaz and third is why were the two key officers general haqqani and general posture given extensions which was a violation of general norms in most democracies and armed forces. thank you. >> is anybody want to take those? i think the answer to the first two are somewhat murky. why now for memogate? because mansoor ijaz released his letter or at least gave an interview about his letter. why did he do it? at all and at this time? that is a question to which there isn't a clear answer.

there are lots of suspicions, but on the face of it, since the same charges that are being leveled against husain haqqani could in principle have been left against him. the motivation for that has to lie in stuff that we don't really know about that we can only speculate on. why were those two officers given extension? i have to assume it was because the government of pakistan and the army leadership wanted things to come out that way. there is lots of speculation about why the u.s. having encouraged the extension. i have no knowledge of that. i have always felt that the u.s. wanted to stay out of decisions of that sort but i can't tell you whether that is in fact how it played out this time. front row, sir.

>> i wanted to ask a couple of questions that were posed by mr. -- remarks that belong to the panel as a whole. the first has to do with the question of internal stability, whether one can make any kind of look to any kind of long-term relationship with pakistani government, and it seems to me from what professor fehr said is the behavior of the supreme court has added a whole new element of, layer of problems at this point. in the past, you have a situation where it was a struggle between civilian governments and the military, but there wasn't extremely speaking in arbiter between them. the court has claimed that in a way that role, but and was

heralded a few years ago for having stood up to musharraf. now it seems to be undermining the credit it earned during that crisis of two or three years ago. so that, that seems to remove one final element of, in the institutions which provides for an adjudication internal it. the second thing has to do with the policy approach, the question. generally speaking over over the past few years there was this debate is said that one could have either a strategic relationship with pakistan or that we could have one, or a transactional one. it was actually the position of ambassador haqqani that's the way to improve things between our two countries was to try to go up to the strategic level and

to address some of the issues of paranoia that marvin weinbaum referred to. now it seems as if we are looking only at transactional and the transaction of the questions between our military and their military essentially. that our military has seems to have also lost its communications with their military. i think in particular -- >> could you get your question please? >> the surprising remarks of admiral mullen so i wonder whether we are moving to, you know, whether there is a kind of motion towards really a kind of disengagement that comes are cicely from that part of our government that has been most engaged with pakistan, the pakistani government? >> i will be really quick. i think the u.s. tried to have a

strategic relationship with pakistan when the obama administration came in three years ago. they started the strategic dialogue to handle issues that were also concerned to pakistan because the complaints were the u.s. was so focused on the counterterrorism issue but that just didn't seem to pan out and we have been sort of forced into a transactional relationship because that dialogue did not work out. you know you could argue why did that happen with the drone strikes and whether pakistan continued -- but i would just say if pakistan feels that it means to force the u.s. to choose between india and pakistan to have strategic relationships it's not going to happen, that i think there has to be an understanding that is the u.s. would like a strategic partnership or relationship with pakistan, but it is certainly not going to choose between the u.s. relationship with india is extremely important and will

remain so. so my fear is that pakistan uses as a litmus test the u.s. relationship with india and that i think would be to pakistan's detriment. i think the relationship can be broad-based, but the u.s. has given no clear, strategic interest that you know at the moment just seem to diverge with pakistan so we are forced into a transactional relationship. >> i actually don't buy the distinction between strategic and transactional relationship. we have been trying actually not too since the obama administration came in, but going back to the 1950's and both sides have been trying to portray our relationship with pakistan as a wall-to-wall strategic engagement, what you might call being a little bit flippant, strategic bear hug.

that has been a great talking point and a great rallying cry for high-level meetings. it has twice already come -- the basic difference in strategic interests between the united states and pakistan, and if you count the current strategic relationships, and one, we are at least three or four years into the period when the difference in u.s. and pakistan strategic interests has reared its head again and has interfered with our genuine strategic collaboration. i don't think that identifying narrower interests in common and pursuing them is a bad thing. you may give it the name, the name transactional and intend

that as an insult, but actually, if the united states and pakistan could work seriously towards samore limited interest, we would both be better off and i think that is where u.s. policy needs to be going. in a sense i think it may have been going in that direction, although the talking points are still strategic relationship i think there is still in fact the recognition that the largest and most ambitious version of that is at a regional moment. >> can i just say, until relatively recently, certainly earlier next year, it was all about the link trust, and the idea was that what what we had to do was to demonstrate that it was more than simply a relationship based on a need for pakistan to deal with our problem with terrorism, al

qaeda, afghanistan, and there were as has been suggested, there were some real moves on our part to move it in that direction. the events of this past year have demonstrated a few things good, that we really didn't share that many strategic interests in common. that there were some basic divergences between what pakistan sought as it's being in its interest and in our interest. so what we are left with now, which i think is being suggested here, we are left now but finding those common denominator's on which we still have a critical convergence. there are not very many at this point, but they remain critical enough that both sides do not want to see a rupture of the

relationship. and that is essentially where we are and it is by necessity going to be characterizing it more transactional because the strategic implied a far more comprehensive set of common interests banned as i suggest, we now find possible. >> did you want to speak to this point? you get the full treatment. >> two brief points on policy. first, it's my understanding that there is no formal written agreement between the unit that -- united states and pakistan on an issue. what we have at his american legislation which is interpreted differently by americans and pakistanis but at this the bush administration ever put on paper what the american commitment to pakistan is and vice versa, therefore if you talk about trust, you talk about trust in the contract is now written, we need to have trust but we also need to have verification, trust but verify. secondly policy issue and i would add to lisa's list of

countries we should be consulting with india. india has vital interest in the future pakistan more vital than we have as well as china. so i think that, i think that in fact, the pakistan army may want to see the relationship work and i wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. as far as i know the shipments to afghanistan have not been renewed. if that is true they are clearly trying to speed apart withdraw from afghanistan which they assume has always been pakistan's problems. that proposition will be tested very soon if we do pull out of afghanistan. we will see how the pakistanis handle the taliban on their own. >> on the court issue very briefly, think if chris were here she would questioned whether in fact, they are an arbitrator certainly in arms arbitrator and we characterize it more as a surrogate for the military. so that whereas it does serve to indirectly implement what the

military's interests are, nevertheless it still has to be viewed as independent in the sense that it acts in fashion wittes -- which suggests independence but in fact reflects far more, i don't want to say a set of instructions but certainly an understanding about what is in the military's interest. >> i have a couple of people on my list but i would like first to pass on one of the questions we have received from twitter. as many of you know, one third of the pakistan senate is going to be elected in march. this is an election that takes place in the state assemblies, national election and the questioner asked, what would be the implications of a ppp victory in the senatorial election? i think the question that we ought to be answering as well is, what did the senate elections mean?

so would any of my colleagues on the panel like to tackle that one? go ahead, lisa. >> i think the implication is that if the ppp does very well and the senate elections then that will help them and the general elections that are scheduled for next year, a year from now. but, you know again it comes up to the timing. i think somebody asked about the timing and i first thought was the timing of the memogate issue we have to ask mansoor ijaz. he is the one that wrote the article in the times that brought up that case. we are talking about timing and chris raised this as well why two years after-the-fact all of a sudden the supreme court now is saying it is threatening to disqualify him for not following through with the supreme court order to banish the andarko with corruption charges against

president zardari so yeah, i see suspicious timing all the way around here. and, so again it raises the question of why is this happening now? we only have a year to go go-go until elections. my feeling, nothing would do more to kind of helped help solidify democracy in pakistan banned to allow the government to run its full course. it just seems to be something that has eluded pakistan throughout its history. so, i think that you know all these issues perhaps are related and again i just come back to the importance of respecting electoral democracy and that is the best thing if we are talking about preventing future crises and pakistan. if pakistan was to be a prosperous, powerful state, it talks about retaining the regional position.

the best way pakistan can retain its regional position is by strengthening its own economy. >> for the next question i have you on my list. wait for the mic please. >> i have a question about pakistan's liberals. ambassador scheffer alluded to -- he was killed a little bit more than year ago and we just had people on the streets of pakistan not so long ago celebrating the anniversary of his murder. but at the same time, pakistan is striking in some way because it has no shortage of intellectuals, writers and so on who in fact, they think haqqani would be a prime example of that, who would be willing to challenge the dominant narrative and very often at great risk to themselves and taking positions

that go against fundamentalism or intolerance broadly. i want to sort of get your sense of how strong our pakistan's liberals today compared to where they were safe for five years ago and where do you see the trend line heading? >> i used the word and reminds -- my remarks earlier in battle. i think that does describe where they are at this point. nobody doubts as you suggest that they have been buried courageous individuals who have spoken up and in fact, you know in some ways, you have gotten more criticism in pakistan then you get in india, certainly with regards to foreign policy. there is more of a dialogue that goes on in pakistan, but those who think that somehow the saviors here are going to come from civil society, and there tr there are many pakistani

progressives who like -- who was referred to earlier who sees civil society is somehow being able, with the huge bolts that this is somehow going to create a constituency here, which can counter the islamic constituency for example. i don't see the evidence for this. there is one real problem as i see it, and that is, that class that we talking about, the danger is they are losing faith in the system. this is what happened in iran in the 1970s, when the middle class, the educated middle class, lost faith in the system. many many pakistanis in that group have one foot inside pakistan and one foot outside of pakistan. and that strikes me as, as

something which could very well, which could very well be overwhelmed by populist forces and islamist forces, so i think in answer to your question, they are there and we ought to take note of them. but, it's going to have to come from below as well as from above. >> i am from pakistan american league. the observations and a small question actually. when we talked about disengagement with pakistan, any analyst i found -- disengagement

is not an option or a solution. both of these countries need each other and their friendship many times highs and lows -- >> could you lift your mic a little bit closer? >> in a relationship what some call old metal he the relationship -- and even while we are talking here, the highest level of american army are still engaged in dialogue. it is important to really bring stability in that region because this is testing pakistan itself and the stability in pakistan, india and in afghanistan is interdependent. the second thing lisa mentioned was about pakistan's obsession with the india relationship with u.s.. since u.s.'s relationship with pakistan is totally independent

of relations of u.s. aid with india, in the same way pakistan relationships with usa's independent of pakistan relationships with china. but all friendships, all relationships are important for china. and the question is, regarding mansoor ijaz, i sometimes in an m. amazed that so many things have been said about him. many people i've met him and i also have met him many times. how could such a man have access to the highest powers in america and then also have access to the highest -- in pakistan? how is that? >> can i say something? i can't speak to the access that he has had in pakistan but i do feel i have something to say about here in the u.s., because

i think mansoor ijaz and i have not followed the case to the detail the christmas but i think he has made claims that he is met with officials perhaps even in the blackberry messages that he has is handed over, and in my conversations with u.s. officials, he never met in the u.s. officials. the only contact was with general jones, when general jones was not in his position in national security adviser. he had already retired from that position. you know we can speculate on why general jones decided to pass this memo onto admiral mullen. i personally don't think it was a great decision, but you know at the same time general jones has filed his affidavit. he has said that, he had no believe that the memo was drafted by haqqani. this was a personal effort by

mansoor ijaz, so i think the problem here is mansoor ijaz is painting this picture that he had all this access in the corridors of power of the u.s.. if you actually talk to people he did not that because the u.s. government isn't going to slander somebody or you know, pronounce something that is not asked of them, the u.s. government has not been able to get out their side of the story to the extent that i think would be more helpful here. that is why he was saying i thought it was very helpful when they clarified mansoor ijaz claimed that the zardari government knew about the bin laden grade before it happened in the u.s. government was clear no pakistani officials were informed before that raid but unfortunately, until questions are asked specifically, then the u.s. government you know does not answer so i think there have been some misperceptions particularly in the pakistani press up out mansoor ijaz access

here in the u.s.. >> i think what lisa says is correct, but let's got a couple of eyes and cross a couple of tees. this is the third instance in which i have been aware of mansoor ijaz claiming to have been an emissary or envoy trying to resolve some nasty international conflict. in each case, the u.s. government was involved in some fashion. in each case the people i knew who were involved in the issue contradicted the claims mansoor ijaz made about the depth and the effectiveness of his involvement. that is the first . and it's very important one. second, the u.s. government, for very good reason, does not want to make itself the story in this

case. as far as the action is concerned, admiral mullen has confirmed having received the memo, having concluded that it was not credible and having therefore decided to do nothing about it. bad essentially is the only action that was taken by the u.s. government. with the poisonous state of u.s.-pakistan relations at the moment, the u.s. government would not consider it was doing either itself or ambassador haqqani any favors by raising its profile and becoming to a greater extent than is already inevitable a part of the story. so you are not going to see a u.s. government decision paper on the credibility or otherwise of mansoor ijaz. >> i would add a footnote. his role model seems to be that of the main character in a woody allen movie.

zelig was in critical american events, world events for his whole life and it's a marvelous film. he is everywhere and i think maybe that is mansoor ijaz's vision of himself. [laughter] >> it second footnote. but a different order i suspect. he has had minimal effectiveness from everything. he is a blowhard. he is all of the things you have heard, but my information is that he has been used in the past as an emissary. that is, that is not all fictitious. people in high places have turned to him and sought his assistance, so it's not an entirely that he is an imaginary figure here.

why individuals would go back to him, given his reputation, is to me the hard thing to understand. >> okay we have one last question from the gentleman in the third row. >> i was pleased to hear the learned scholar yesterday. i am a freelance writer. i would please like to ask you, in pakistan, bin laden was killed, but -- is still there. i'm in al zawahiri is still there supported and headed by the pakistan military. i would please like to ask the good scholars when are you going to be brutally frank and call a spade a spade? isn't pakistan a rogue state?

>> you no, i think one of the messages that you get from this panel, and it may be a somewhat and satisfying message, is that, is the tremendous dilemma that the united states faces in trying to work with and around pakistan on very important policy issues. this is not new. this is something that we have dealt with for at least 50 years, but i would say it's at a more acute stage now than it ever was. doctored shot harry said both countries need each other. that is for better or for worse, still true. so do you not -- united states is probably not going to come out and say pakistan is a rogue state and we will have nothing to do with it for all of the reasons that lisa curtis just mentioned. with the united states is trying to do is to pursue his interest.

that is what countries do. these interests are some of -- somewhat in line with what the government of pakistan. >> seeks in some of them are not. that is where it gets difficult. pakistan too is going to pursue his interest and all of what we are talking about this morning suggest that there is agreement on some of those in disagreement on others within pakistan and that they all get caught up in the internal drama of pakistan and which unfortunately our friends are saying has also become a pawn. >> can i just add 1.? i agree with everything that was said but i think the only thing that does seem certain at least to me is that until the pakistan military leadership develops a clearer and more comprehensive policy toward terrorism rather than this idea of facilitating

others is that there will be no clarity in u.s.-pakistan relations and those sites will continue to remain fairly satisfied with their relationship. >> final comments from the panelists? lisa has just had her's. >> add that pakistan's decision to both oppose and support terrorism complicates its relations with china and as well as other countries. it's not just the united states. >> marvin, last thoughts? >> it comes back to what pakistan thinks is in its own interest. it is not, it is not supporting or choosing among terrorist organizations without reason. it has in its own objectives, sense that some of these organizations do work in its interest, do work to benefit of what it seeks as the way of its strategic regional goals and

global goals. and tell that changes, i think we can expect that pakistan will continue to be selective among good terrorists and bad terrorists or good extremist and bad extremist, and it's only when the correlation of forces is such that it recognizes that these elements are a danger to pakistan itself, and removes -- moves away from the denial of this, that i think we will see real change in its policies. >> well, with that let me invite you to join in expressing our thanks to the panelists. [applause] and thank you for being with us today.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> there is this tectonic shift that happened on line where people's privacy is no longer essentially currency that we use to get access to facebook or gmail and i think it's a real problem that we are going to see the effects of over the next few years.

>> i believe that in order to emphasize that while it's great to have this memorial to his memory and it's great to have a national holiday, and it's great to have streets and schools and hospitals named in his honor all over our nation and world, it is also important to not place too much emphasis on martin luther king, the idol, but not enough emphasis on the ideals of martin luther king jr.. >> singer natalie cole recently about hepatitis c.

sheered all-americans to be tested for the disease which causes inflammation of the liver. she spoke and it questions for about an hour. .. care to donate to our programs offered to the public through our library, the national press club journalism institute, you

can find that information on the website as well. on behalf of our members worldwide i'd like to welcome our speaker and those of you attending today's event. our head table includes guests of the speaker as well as working journalists who are club members. and my regular refrain, this political season, not so much a point of reference today is that if you hear applause in our audience we would like to note that members of the general public are attending so it's not necessarily evidence of a lack of journalistic objectivity. we would also like to welcome our c-span and public radio audiences. our luncheons are also featured on our member-produced weekly podcast title from the national press club produced by members and available on itunes. you can also follow the action on twitter using the hash tag npc lunch. after our guest speech concludes today we will have q&a, and as always i ask as many questions as time permits. now it is time to introduce our head table guests, and please note again in the political season the journalists present at the table does not imply or signify an endorsement of the speaker.

i would ask each of you here to stand briefly as your name is announced and we will begin from your right. we begin with aaron kessler, washington correspondent for the "detroit free press" and a new member of the club. welcome, aaron. nancy hughes is assistant vice president for communications with the national health council. jamie lebay, a long time young member of the club, and a reporter for the voice of russia radio, and she's very active in our young members committee, and thank you for all that. laura helbling is a reporter with the rpm report. dr. jonathan mccone is a gastroenterologist, and he is a guest of our speaker. mary lou donohue is producer and editor with artistically speaking, and a member of our speakers committee. then we have donna cryer, chair of the national board of the american liver foundation and also a guest of our speaker. welcome here today. skip over the podium for a moment, and then to melissa charbonneau with news hook media, the very dynamic committee chair of our speakers committee, we're so grateful for the wonderful work she's done here today, and we're grateful

to have her mother in the audience from mississippi today. we're also joined, as we skip over the speaker for a moment, by barbara rose. that is natalie cole's manager and a guest of the speaker. then emmie who is the editor of the ideas about innovations at the "washington post." jessica lee is former white house correspondent for "usa today." nikki schwab, the yays and nays columnist for the "washington examiner," and a top performer on twitter we might add. we're always happy for that. derrick gingery is a reporter for the pink sheet. and anna miller, writer for the george washington university, medical center, women's health columnist for the daily news. she's also a new npc member. we're glad to have you here today as well. please give them a round of applause. [applause] thank you. our guest today has been called the new queen of soul.

she grew up in los angeles in the 1950s as true hollywood royalty. she is a best selling artist and performer, an author, an actress, and a nine-time grammy winner. she described her childhood years as a member of the celebrated musical family as being like the black kennedys living in a hollywood bubble. if her father, legendary singer nat king cole, asked who's coming to dinner, the guest list might include the likes, if there were the likes of them, duke ellington, count basie, ella fitzgerald and billie holiday. surrounded by such powerful rhythm and blues influences and gifted with a wonderful instrument in her voice, natalie cole burst into the r&b scene as many of us can remember back in the '70s with her debut album inseparable. many of us remember that very well, almost as if it were yesterday. she topped the charts with such hits as this will be an everlasting love, inseparable, and our love. she won her first two grammys as new artist of the year, and as

best female r&b vocal performance. she was enveloped by stardom, racking up grammys and platinum albums behind the glitter of success. however, she was fighting private battles and in a sense that's what brings her here today. her 2000 autobiography, "angel on my shoulder", describes a life spiraling out of control at the time plagued by a series of health challenges and highly publicized struggle with addiction. she would later tell the "washington post," as my success escalated, so did the drug problem. fortunately, for all of us, and for herself, she rebounded. overcoming her addiction, she began charting new hits like jumpstart, miss you like crazy, and live for your love, and the cover of bruce springsteen's pink cadillac. in 1991 our speaker recorded the tribute album to her father that was to become her most memorable for many of us, titled unforgettable.

for many, the highlight single was the virtual duet featuring a soundtrack of her father's original vocal. the album spent five weeks at number one and earned six grammy awards. her 2008 album, still unforgettable, garnered two more. throughout the highly successful decades, our guest spent performing under the spotlight she was unaware that she been living with a severe liver condition known as the silent epidemic too many. 2008 during a routine blood test she was diagnosed with chronic hepatitis c, a possible result of her past abuse of drugs. as it turns out, hep c strikes more than 3 million americans, and many like our guest don't realize they have it, or they are afraid to get treated. in fact, i'll tell you here today this is a personal story for me because my own favorite cousin has been battling in an indianapolis hospital even as we speak, afflicted with the same condition. he recently underwent a liver transplant and is making a strong recovery. it just goes to show how many people are touched by this

disease. today, our guest comes to our historic venue to raise her voice about the virus, to talk about what can be done to combat it. she is the spokesperson for the "tune in to hep c" campaign, the nationwide public health initiative sponsored by the american liver foundation, and merck. so here to tell us about that campaign, and if we're lucky, perhaps grace us with just a few bars of some of her musical history, please give a warm national press club welcome to the one and only, natalie cole. [applause] >> well, thank you so much, market. and thank you to the national press club for having me. i did not realize you were such a prestigious group.

[laughter] i am very honored to be here. is really very unusual when i think of the journey that i've taken to end up here today. it's not always the good stuff that you end up in places like this. sometimes it's the challenges, and if you're lucky, have victory over those challenges. that can injure in a prestigious and private like this. so again, thank you for having me. as you know, you know what i do. i sing. i sing my heart out. i love every minute of it. and i've had a really, really fortunate career over the last 30 plus years. and i would say that i didn't

imagine that my world would come to such a crumbling halt back in 2008. although in the late '70s and early '80s, i was already writing, as if you would say, an epitaph. when i got into drugs i was a young woman. i was probably in my early '20s. and i was in the hippie culture, and we were doing things that we thought was just fun, never imagining that, first of all, many of us would no longer be here. and that it would be consequences from our actions. i was a drug user. i was a heroin user. and isn't it extraordinary what god can do when you look at me now? you would never imagine it.

but the truth is, i was a heroin user, and when i was diagnosed with hepatitis c, i had to flash back to that life. and i was, in fact, using dirty needles because of the environment at the time that heroin spawned. it was a generally a rock-and-roll environment. it was mostly folks in the music business. it was a hippie environment, and the hepatitis c was like the kiss of death. so when my doctor told me i had it, 25 years later i just couldn't believe it. i was in absolute shock, that this disease could live inside my body for 20 plus years with absolutely extraordinary. i had no symptoms. i was pretty much a health nut,

worked out at least 20 years of my life, and so when my doctor told me that i had hep c, i was just floored. and so, i asked him, since this virus was able to live inside my body for so long, what if i just kept on going and didn't do anything about it, you know? and he said he eventually you will get very, very sick your country and. -- very, very sick. so i had to face myself, my consequences. for many, have see is -- hep c is, you can get it through tattoos. you can get it through unsterilized needles. you can get it from blood transfusions. we didn't know that back in the day. and this is why i would say that it was by choice, my choice to

do what i did. and i ended up with hep c. but the consequences are still the same. the liver is still damaged. some people can live with for many years but eventually you do get very sick. so i had not many options, because i'm the kind of person that wants to deal with it, get it over with. so, i went on a treatment that was very, very challenging. i continued to work, but it was very, very difficult. i lost about 25 pounds. i was in a wheelchair. i was sick every single day. and i would have to say that the attitude of someone who is ill is probably 80% of her ability

to get better. i never asked why mean? -- why me. i want to encourage all the people that we are going to hopefully be able to touch an approach, starting here, that your attitude about your treatment is what's going to help you get through this. we have a great, great campaign that i'm so glad that merck pharmaceuticals and the american liver foundation has approached me, as well as gregg allman from the allman brothers. we have a great campaign called "tune in to hep c." and what is, what my roll is, is to try to erase the stigma of what it means to have hepatitis c. there's only people out there

that you have it that are ashamed. there are people out there who know that folks have it and they have made him feel ashamed. this is no longer a disease to be ashamed of. i don't know if you remember back in the day when depression, nobody wanted to talk about depression. until some people started coming forward, celebrities. we know the power of celebrities. magic johnson came forward with hiv. shocked us all, that somehow it gave us a little bit of a leverage like well, if they can happen to him, it can happen to anybody. and the idea that he faced it so gracefully was something that we all took notice of. and more people started coming forward. and the stigma of hiv has actually, it's better than what we are talking about today, then

hep c. hep c still has a very serious stigma hovering over it, and we've got to embrace it and get rid of it. because there's too many people that are dying from it, liver transplants are not that easy to get, and we have to really deal with this particular disease with all, this is probably the one that is the most difficult one to erase the stigma. but we're going to need your help in order to do that. the "tune in to hep c" campaign has also inserted something really cool. they have now, on the website, "tune in to hep c.com," they have now put together an interactive guide so that people can either who have the disease, who think they might have a, who know someone who has it, who used to have it, they can go on

this website and they can ask questions, and it's an interactive site so they can have someone answer them. they can have someone talk to them. they can talk to doctors, physicians, about this disease. and it's just amazing. i didn't have that. when i had my situation, i was on chemo, which was the form of treatment that i was on, for about seven months. and i was such a wreck the whole time, and there was a little, a little number on my little medicine dispenser. there was this little number, this little 1-800 number that i could call if i needed somebody to talk to. and so, i called that number a lot. and i would always get someone wonderful, someone who really understood. it was just really amazing.

i didn't know how to give, i had to give myself injections once a week, and i was not very good at it. and it was kind of nerve-racki nerve-racking. and i would call this number and this lady would talk me through it every time. it was just really, really amazing. i went to japan against my family's wishes while in the midst of doing this, these injections. and i could tell you, it was quite, quite an experience to try to get through 14 from my wheelchair. i managed to do 10. and then something wonderful happened this past july, because music is what i do in music is kind of who i am, and i love it

so, and i always like to do different kinds of things. i had the opportunity to do a concert with the allman brothers. and gregg allman and i had never met, but we fell in love right away. he had just had a liver transplant. he is a very quiet, shy kind of guy, so that's what i stand up here instead of him because he would never do this. [laughter] but nevertheless, we had so much fun. it was at the beacon theater, and i can tell you that inside of the theater were advocates for hep c, where patients that were still dealing with it. some of the gentlemen on stage, some of the rockers, you know, david crosby and, i don't want to out everybody to some people don't want to talk about it, but, you know, myself, gregg, we

were all out there in favor of this, this dreaded disease, but we are out there, you know, giving our best. and it was really an amazing concert. not only because the night was amazing, but because of the response afterwards, and the next 24-48 hours. it amazing. it's really something what the power of celebrity can do, not just because you're a celebrity, but because you've been there. that's the difference, and that's what i am able to stand up in front of you today. because i don't think i would have the passion. i don't think i would have taken the time to have the knowledge if i hadn't experienced it myself to you really would have company, you don't have to go through this, but there's something about having been there that makes it just that much more important.

i was just really very concerned about, someone asked me in an interview this morning about the lawmakers, are you going to talk to the lawmakers? hopefully they will do something, you know. and i'm like, you know what they can do? they can change this african health insurance situation, okay? i have friends that are not in the business. they are 95 as. they're just regular people. they are still struggling with their children and their own lives to get quality health insurance. if they had a hep c experience, there's a good chance they might not even be able to afford a treatment. i don't know. i don't know what kind of treatments are out there. i'm not the doctor. dr. mcclellan would be able to address that as to what new treatments are out there. but my treatment was not cheap.

and i'm just wondering, as well as getting the word out about hep c, you know, what else we can do as far as trying to change the face of the health world, because these people are not going to be able to have access to the treatment because they don't have the money. why is it that 40, 45 many people don't have health insurance? because they can't afford it. so it's a bit of a dilemma, you know, but it doesn't stop us from certainly going forward and we need, we need to be able to give access to patients of hep c. we need to start questioning our doctors more. people who go in for checkups don't generally get liver checkups. i'm sure most of you in this room just go for record

checkups, if you go at all to your doctor. it's not something that he would even ask if you wanted. more people are saying could you give me hiv tests? but now have to start asking, check my liver, just check my liver. because you don't know, because it's like a silent disease, like blood pressure. you don't know that it could be living inside your body. and so, i encourage, you know, you to get the word out to the doctors, the question our doctors. they are not god. they don't know everything. they are kind of flying by the wing of their but, to. and you find this out when you're a patient, very interesting. how much your doctor doesn't know. i think i just want to say that

this country is still a great country, but of all the countries on the planet, it's got the worst health care in the world. and part of that is part of what we are seeing today. with this hep c business. nobody is really paying that much attention, and people are dying and there's not a lot of livers to go around. and we just really want to raise the awareness and reduce the stigma at the same time. and my question to you is, can you help us wax will you help us? it's very dear to my heart, because i know the pain that is suffered, and i do know some

people that have been contracted with the disease, and it's a very, very painful journey. so, and we come to you, you guys have a lot of power and a lot of leverage if this is a room full of some very valuable assets year, and i'm really, really hoping that you will do whatever it takes so that we can get excited. and we can really do something about this. we have a psa announcement that is coming out. i'm very happy about that, finally. when will it be out now? in about two weeks. i hope so. and i just record a radio psa as well. i think that when people hear,

because a lot of people kind of know what i've been through, but when they hear the details of what it's like, you know, what you go through, and if you can come up on the other side, it's possible. this is a treatable disease, but it needs more research, and it needs more, it needs to take that blanket off angrily confront it -- blanket off, and really confronted with a better attitude because a lot of people are getting just and afraid to go see their doctors, and afraid to tell their families you know, like they are embarrassed, like this is something that is their fault. unless you are a drug user, this is not your fault. if you were a drug user, well, you know. i me i accepted the responsibility of what, you

know, consequence i have had to pay, but for the most part this is a disease that comes from just bad, bad stuff, a blood transfusion. you know, now we'll all be freaked out about getting a blood transfusion. but that's just the way it is. and you know, it till they find a cure, we have a lot of treatments that we hope will be, you know, the answer to dealing with this. again, the interactive tool on the website is something that you all should take a look at. this is great for family members as well, so that they can feel, you know, not as uncomfortable dealing with their loved ones who may have it, or vice versa.

people in general are turning more towards the internet for information on health, but a lot of times they don't know where to look. or they don't know if it's credible. and we are here to say that it is. and i have no problem representing this company over the american liver foundation, who has done some wonderful, wonderful things through the years. but, you know, it takes someone like me to get the word out. i don't know why that is, but that's just, that's just the society that we live in. and again, i wish that even three years ago i had known about the things that are available now, but that's okay. the best part is that my liver was 80% cured because of the

treatment that i went to. we do have copies of these materials, and there's additional information about the "tune in to hep c" campaign. i encourage you to please take a look at it, and i think i need to probably do something to use. have i talked long enough? [laughter] okay, i would like to do some thank yous. first of all, i came to my partners, the american liver foundation, and merck. they are the ones that are bringing this campaign to life. i'm just kind of like a little puppet that goes wherever they tell me to. i want to thank of course the national press club for inviting me to speak here today.

and i would also like to acknowledge the work at the department of health and human services are doing as well. they have developed the viral hepatitis action plan, which includes steps for improving the prevention, treatment and care for people with viral hepatitis. and trying to move the nation towards achieving, you know, healthy people. the goal is liked by 2020 we would have eradicated many of these diseases. wouldn't that be something? and finally i would like to take a moment to thank -- where is dr. cohen? because he's the one that can answer all the medical stuff. i don't know what was in that treatment that i took. my particular treatment was interferon. i'm sure many of you have heard of it.

it's, i would not recommend it, but if it works i would recommend it. very difficult treatment, very, very difficult, but very, very full of results. and i'm standing here today the guts of it. there are other treatments. there are organic treatments. there's a herbal treatments. they take longer. that is one of, you know, setbacks are but that's okay. and dr. mccoy would be able to answer all the medical questions. and i don't have any bright quote to end this with, other than to say let's just get it done. thank you very much. [applause]

>> thank you, natalie. that was wonderful parts of the way this works is, -- >> i was going to sit back down. >> that would be fine but then they would fire me as president but i would rather not have that happen. thank you for those inspiring every personal and touching remarks. there are a lot of questions about the subject that you talked about, we will touch on immediately and then talk about your career and some thoughts along those lines. so let's talk about the campaign that you are affirmed that his speech today, and, of course, the whole idea there is to focus on raising awareness and to encourage patients to see a doctor for screening and treatment. so this is a relatively new campaign, and i'm wondering now that you've had a chance to reflect on this illness and to think about how things are changing. how have you seen awareness and attitudes change, just in a short amount of time that you have been witnessing it yourself so personally? >> i would probably say from my own perspective, as someone who

is experiencing this on a daily basis, that people looked at me differently, not because there was, like, something over my head, you know, like some state of stay away from her, but more like that's natalie cole, and she has had see and she's in a wheelchair, and she's still singing. as a person, as a regular person, you know, sitting out in the audience, if i saw that, i would be like, hey, that's pretty cool. that's amazing. could i do that? ..

don't do that. >> i'm curious because as you talk about the concert you participated in with some other people who have been touched by this i'm just thinking about the fact that in my lifetime i don't remember a lot of other people, people who have such immediate awareness in name as you do, or at least your peers. who have ever step forward in such an aggressive way. how was it that made you decide to let say in fuse your musical legacy with this cause that you feel so deeply about? in other words what energized you to say give no i am here today not to talk about my next album which is usually the thing for someone in your position or my next book, and laugh it up with jay on the tonight show but

something that is very serious and depressed this to the top of your agenda, what was it that made you do that? >> by the time the merck pharmaceutical people came to me, i had been through the chemo. i had been through a kidney transplant, and my sister died on the same day as my kidney transplant. i just felt like i have been through enough tough stuff that i can do this. i can talk about this. and really inspire someone, and that is why i did it. >> and when you talk about the stigma, those of us that haven't been through what you have been through, can you flesh that out a little bit more for us about you know, what happens with

that? how it affects people who are not celebrities who are you know by their very nature given opportunities to do things in our society that other people aren't able to do? what some -- what about the person that is not a celebrity, what do they face? >> i can only imagine that the normal joe or the normal sally that has to deal with something like this, it's a very lonely disease. i think unless you have the support of family friends, unless you have a medical health giver to go to, that you are a long. you are alone and you are scared, and you don't know what your future holds. and that is what i think is the burden that many people carry that do have this disease, and

are reluctant to talk about it, afraid to talk about it, unable to talk about it because they don't have any resources. >> you talked about bit about access to care in your speech and essentially saying that treatment options and the access to care are not where they need to be. for the members of the general public who may or may not have health care coverage, what are they up against with hepatitis c these days? >> well, i can answer that question only so much. i think dr. mccullen would answer that better. i don't no, you know a again without certain resources. if you have let's say just discovered that you have hep c and the way you discovered it was the way i discovered it. you just have to go in for a routine exam or some blood work

and boom, there it is. it's like you are asking yourself, what do i do next? now, i think that you know, anyone with access to a computer can go on line, look up hep c and it will take you to hep c.com and there will be answers there are. that weren't even there three years ago. so at least they have got that access now. again, a lot of people are afraid to go to the doctor. they just don't want to do that. they are in denial. they don't have the money or whatever the reasons are, and there may be something going on with them. they know that something is not right but they are afraid to go so now, you go on the internet. >> i was speaking with one of our guests at the head table before we got started today. i understand there is really a

movement underfoot now to not only screen people who might he at high risk but ultimately to screen people much the same as they are routinely screened for something like hiv. >> absolutely. >> what is the importance of that? >> absolutely because again, this thing that we call the stigma, hiv still has a bit of the stigma. it's not totally okay, but it does so much better over the past publicly, just five years, let's just say five years. if we can get the concept of hepatitis c to that level, we will be so much further ahead. it is valuable, it is important that we approach hep c with the same kind of aggressiveness that we have with hiv and i think that there is no reason why we

can't have you know some similar positive results and continue to find more treatments. >> i guess you know the way our culture and our behaviors have changed over the years, i understand that it could be someone who does something as innocent relatively speaking as getting ear piercing. it could be a mother who headed a transfusion. that's not someone who stuck a needle in their arm. that someone who thought they were going through their everyday life. >> that's right. to little on the scary side and he our hospitals, our doctor's offices, they get a little paranoid. i understand why some people don't want to go do the doctor you know but our county hospitals, maybe they are not kept up as well. i don't know what the hospitals here in d.c. but at home at los angeles, cedars is a great hospital, usc l.a. and then there are county hospitals.

maybe they are not as, you know, so you wouldn't want to go if you are going to go get a test go to a place that you know has the best test, you know, and it doesn't necessarily have to be -- but again that kind of information would be on the web site. where you can go to be tested, where you can go to be screened. >> you talked about in your speech you were engaged in substance abuse during a time years ago. what was your own sense of the potential health risk to yourself and was there an awareness really that you could be putting yourself at risk in particular for hepatitis c or was it just living that lifestyle that many thought would be okay in and? >> living my life. living my life, having fun, kicking up my heels, not a care in the world. you know, for us ex-drug people, ex-drug addicts, we have our own little code of languages, but

anyway. we have also seen a side of life that maybe many of you in this room have not seen. we have seen death. we have seen it come right in front of our faces and for some reason it passes us by. and so when i was getting high in doing all of that stuff, i probably owe deed at least two or three different times. never thought twice about it. oh i think i remember once, i was concerned about the headlines. the headlines might have said nagging cold's daughter found underneath the sink in the neighbor's apartment. but guess what? i put that needle in my arm. when you are addicted to drugs you have, you are not thinking of tomorrow. you are not thinking down the road or next week. you are thinking of just that moment and i can't tell you how many people i lost during that

time. >> your sense that it was worse back in the day then it is now in the sense of prevalence of the abuse and let's say the entertainment community? >> you know it's hard to say because this is going to sound really crazy, but at least back in the day we had good drugs. [laughter] i am serious. the quality of the cocaine, the quality of the heroin, the quality of the marijuana was not laced with sodium pentothal. it didn't have poison in it. it didn't have rat poison in it. these days, the kids are taking the ecstasy, the ghb, i don't even know what half the stuff is they are taking and the stuff is laced with stuff. they don't know what is in it and that is why they are dying the way they are. you know, it's a different kind of culture that we are seeing

now. maybe not as many heroin users. i don't really know, but you know the ecstasy, the math, these are very very powerful drugs and could affect some kind of an organ in their life, in their body. it depends on how long they do it. sometimes it takes more time and they are gone. >> and in the sense that it was almost glorified back in the 70s and early '80s, and now maybe not so much though? >> no, because i mean back in the 70s, you know, some of us well-known record producers, and they had drawers of cocaine. they were giving it to the artists. the managers would go out and get it for the artists. for me, if you did not get high, i wouldn't hire you. you couldn't even be in my circle. it was like you know, it was a

whole another thought process. >> a big part? >> it was a big part, yeah and then it went from eating fun to not being so much fun. folk started dying and they started out and you know some of us were able to get to rehab in time, thank god. >> what was the first intervention like that you can remember where the key turned from bad to something has to be done? >> probably when i had my son, and there is something about, something that goes on in your brain even though you don't necessarily do anything about it that there is something that goes on in your brain as you are going to get a bag of heroin or a bag of cocaine and you have got your son with you. and he is like two in his pajamas and you are taking him with you on your drug run. i think that was kind of --

>> that is when you had an awareness? >> i had an awareness that i didn't do anything about it, you know. there were just way too many events that happened that should have turned out really ugly. i could have lost my son. and i wrote about this in my first book. my son fell in the pool. i was back in the bedroom getting high. i had people working for me that did not know how to swim and they jumped in the pool anyway to save him. but did i stop? no, you know and there were a lot of those. did i stop? no. it's just really by the grace of god. >> so i mean what was it that got you into rehab in terms of a particular event? i mean was there something that cause you to go to rehab one particular day or anything like that the can remember or care to share? >> i went to rehab twice. the first time i have to say, it was interesting because the facility that i went to us in

california. they knew nothing about drug disease or drug addiction. they thought it was a psychological or psychiatric problems, that you are crazy and that you needed psychiatric help. so needless to say i was there for 30 days and 30 minutes after i left i was back at it. the second time i went, interestingly enough, the people that trudged me were not my family members. but my attorney, my business manager, my accountants, he and i can't remember the fourth person. i think there was a fourth person. >> it was a gravy train. >> they were like in suits. the suits came to my house you know and it was so unusual for them to say, you know, we really care about you.

we have a lot of respect for you, but we are not going to be able to represent you anymore because you are going to be dead. and i was just like what? who are you? my mother couldn't get me to do it. my sister couldn't talk me into it. for some reason, what they did was something, something clicked in here. i was on my way. >> i guess it's a blessing. someone asked, what can you do to encourage more african-americans to get into the research studies of the drug can help more people? >> well, these two ladies, particularly you, who has a newspaper that i'm sure goes to the black community, okay? if i need to do an interview we will do an interview, and make it, and address that specifically to the black community because we don't go to the doctor very often.

we are not good at that and i can get on the case a lot so i'd be happy to talk to you afterwards. >> someone asks here from the audience, won't hep c patients now be covered by the affordable health care act, the one that is so pretentious and the political realm these days which forbids the denial of health care insurance based upon a preexisting condition. in other word, is that helping? >> beats me. >> fair enough. [laughter] you are not having to qualify people for habitat -- for health care than. [laughter] >> someone asked in this is a personal statement from someone in our audience are saying thank you for putting your warm beautiful face for the cause of hep c and this person is saying for those us that relapse while in treatment or experienced lymphoma or are a associated with hep c what is on the horizon for tests for markers and tests were response to

treatment? in other words, is there progress being made there? >> yeah that is a medical question. i wish i could answer it but i do not know but again go on the web site. "tune in to hep c." if you can't find 99% of the answers you are looking for, then tell the merck people that they will have to redo it because that is why they did it so people can go and ask the hard questions. >> someone is asking how did you keep your voice job while you you were undergoing treatment? >> you know, i think the reason might voice kind of stayed more or less in decent shape, because it's a gift. it didn't have anything to do with my disease. it's still just stayed there, and it was there. it was there for me when i needed it.

it really was. >> you must be extremely grateful for that. >> i am so grateful. >> you have obviously worked as a recording artist, as an actress, it and an author and probably some things we are not thinking of at this very moment as well. that is a pretty rich creative portfolio. i think people would like to no, when you're not rigging on this important project, what are you doing these days to a certain degree whether it is a new project or recording or anything along those lines? >> i just believe that god sends me where i am needed. and that is kind of the way it has been, especially since i have been ill which has only been over the last three years. but when i look back, on my career, i really believe that god has sent me where i have been needed and the fact that i even continue to work is just amazing to me, that what i do is

still considered viable. and you know, i mean there is still so much i haven't done and yet, i am very very happy with what i have done. i tried to stay -- i am in the community a lot, speaking through the community and you know, think it's important when people just like you as a person. forget about what you do. if they can just get to know you a little bit as a person, that goes a long way. so when i have to, you know then speak on things i don't come off like an idiot. you know, because i have either been there or i am talking to people and i'm hearing what they are saying and i am hearing you know, i just believe in just being real and just letting this, letting what i do, do what it is supposed to do.

>> a lot of people will think about the legacy of your father, who still seems very much a relevant part of pop culture. christmas shopping in the mall, you can't help but hear it. >> oh god, no. it's unfair sing, i'm telling you. >> tell me why. [laughter] >> especially if you are going into a mall. not just one store but if you going to several doors and every store is playing one of my dads sons. and i walk into a store and i turn around and i walk out. [laughter] i will come back later. >> basha qualify you for a discount at the very least. >> yeah, how about that? >> how much do you think or do you keep in your mind about that musical legacy in the sense you have obviously embraced her father's talent in the sense that you have performed with him and even though he had passed away tragically at an early age.

how often is his musical talent and also that if your mother, present with you on a day-to-day basis? >> i would say almost all the time. i rely on that to help you make you know, just even decisions about the music that i want to sing. the future music that i want to do, or what is the best road for me to take, depending on what the goal is. like if i want to reach a certain audience, then there are certain songs that i want to sing and you know, my dad, when i realized after all these years, that my dad still makes people smile when they talk about him, when they come up to me and say i was a really big fan of your fathers. but there is a healing that actually took place when my father was singing. it is still there.

and, some of that has been passed on to me. people say, and you know i think that's an amazing quality. that is how i know it's a gift. >> and yet he was such a groundbreaker in many ways. there was the race part of that. he had a television show. he may have been the first black or african-american to go on television variety shows. >> he was and he was not politically involved. he was not trying to make a statement. he was just happy to have his tv show. i remember we used to sit home and watch it, you know, for those 15 minutes. and, all he had to say about it after will -- the sponsors pulled the show because they were too scared to have a black person with that kind of power because he was getting ready to have a lot of power. the sponsors pulled the show and the only thing my dad had to say

about it was, i guess madison avenue is afraid of the dark. and i thought that was a very good statement to make. but my dad was not a political person and he was thrown into it a number of times when he would be asked to perform in front of audiences that were segregated. that was just not his thing even though he was from alabama, montgomery alabama and he knew what segregation was but he was not going to let that dictate his career. and you know he got a little, in little scuffles from it. there were people that would throw things at him and they would boo him and stuff like that. he said i'm not standing in front of a segregated audience. >> to keep that bipartisan tradition going, we now sit in washington d.c. with barack obama the president, and as of

today, an african-american leading in some polls for the republican nomination for president. from either your perspective and what you think about what your father might have thought, what would he think? >> i think he would be fascinated. i think you would be just absolutely you know, glued to the television and watching this in his lifetime. and i think that we, the black people that i certainly no, are pretty glued. regardless of the results, just the idea that we have gotten this far is really an amazing thing. i think that any ethnicity can say that, when they see one of their own get up there like that. it's the coolest thing. it's a beautiful thing and it gives us hope that we can all do something great, you know, no

matter who we are. i think it's just unfortunate that president obama has had so much, you will have to pardon me but i have to say it like i see it. he has had so much stuff thrown at him. i'm not happy about it and yes i voted for him, but i don't believe that any one man, black, white, yellow or purple can turn this country around in four years, period. so they need get off his case, let them do what he is going to do and maybe he will make it the next four years. i would wish that he would just for the consistency of having somebody there. now he knows what to do. [laughter] now he knows, okay? it's kind of like being in school. this man was very young when he became president. he didn't know half of the stuff that was going to happen and you know, i first started looking at

cain and i'm like, where in the hell did he come from? [laughter] you know, but at the same time i'm saying the same thing, give him a break too. what could possibly happen? we are in such an interesting culture and time of our lives right now, anything can happen. so why not? wouldn't that be something? you know, i don't know what the republicans would thing. [laughter] but it would be really an extraordinary thing if cain ended up being a front-runner, you know but i think for right now, i am very pleased that obama came into this environment and i'm glad to have a black president because it showed us just how prejudice we really are, okay? they have basically blamed this man for everything. and they have really taken such

potshots at them. it's really not fair. give him another four years and let him get it right. >> he will just stand by here, thank you for that and we will go to one last question here in a moment. we are almost out of time. i would like to reminder guess about some upcoming speakers. very much in the intersection what we are talking about here today on october 24, we still have some tickets available for tmz's harvey levin to talk about the changing landscape in entertainment and on october 31, herman cain will be our guest speaker here at the npc luncheon. >> it's no coincidence that it is on halloween? [laughter] >> that is when he could make it. we opened the invitation to him. so, first of all before our last question i would like to present you with a token of our appreciation as the official coffee mug. thank you very much and the last question is, actually a serious one and that is given your father's death from lung cancer and your own battle with addiction, what advice would you give president obama?

>> we don't know. i think it still out there little bit. we certainly don't see it in public. we don't want them to smoke go right? >> no, we don't. can you blame him though? [laughter] >> he needs to take a break, right? your father did die from cigarette smoke. >> yes he did and he was a very heavy smoker. he smoked like, what were those things called? he did not do menthol. philip morris, camels, lucky strike and he had cigarette holders that filtered it. that did not do him any good but he was a very heavy smoker. i wouldn't know, obama. i think he is a smart enough man to know. it may just be really tough for him but i can tell them what i did. i was also smoking up until

about six years ago and i stopped because i couldn't hit all my notes. [laughter] and i would hate for something like that to happen before he would you know -- but i can tell you that, and i wasn't that they go they smoker but within 30 days of not smoking -- >> how about a round of applause for our guest speaker today. [applause] ..

>> people's privacy is not, no longer owned by them. we get access to facebook for free or gmail come and i think it's a real problem that will see the effects over the next few years been above with the digital future look like? nick bilton on the attack of changing technology on business, the media and everyday life. ththe communicate is tonight at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> coming up live tomorrow here

on c-span2, house minority leader nancy pelosi. mike allen of politico interviews the former house speaker at 8:25 a.m. eastern. you can see it live again here on c-span2. >> kansas governor sam brownback delivered his second state of the state address this past wednesday. he called for overhauling the state tax code, changing the pension system for state employees. this is about half an hour. [cheers and applause] [applause]

[applause] [applause] {>>} mr. speaker, mr. president, legislators, justices of the

kansas supreme court; leaders of kansas sovereign native american nations, my wonderful wife and first lady of kansas, mary, an welcome to the first day of winter. this is pretty amazing. good evening. glad to have you back in town. our family just experienced its first wedding with our oldest daughter abby marrying eric teetsel. [applause] thank you. it was exciting, it was emotional, and it was very expensive. [laughter] so i need to get back to work and it's great to see you. and being able to get back to work with you. let me start off by saying that i am bullish on kansas. [applause]

and as i go to some of the things tonight you will see why. we are a state in transition. from a high-tax state, to a low-tax state. [applause] from a state struggling to pay our day to day bills, to a state with a healthy bank account. [applause] from issuing more bonds and borrowing from our kids, to paying down our debt. [applause] transitioning from losing private sector jobs, to growing our private sector workforce. from an unsound pension system, to an honest defined contribution system. from a school finance system trapped in litigation, to a simpler system focused on getting dollars out of the court room and into the classroom. [applause]

we are transitioning from a medicaid system lurching between cutting providers, patients or both, to one that gets better results for our most vulnerable kansans. from a modest wind energy investment to a top five state for projects under construction. from a wasteful use-it-or-lose-it water law doctrine, to preserving our most precious natural resource, fresh water. this state in transition will look less to what washington can do for kansas and more to what we can do for ourselves. [applause] that's a lot to accomplish.

can we get it done? of course we can. a year ago we met here facing two enormous challenges, a stagnant economy with fewer kansans employed and a big budget deficit. many states across the country were struggling, but in 2010, kansas ranked among the worst in private sector job creation. working together, we acted. here are the results. we overhauled our state's economic development system, enacted modest tax relief, and sent word around the world that kansas is open for business. since january 2011, kansas has added more than 11,000 net private sector jobs in one year. [applause] on the budget, we faced a $500 million deficit, but we did not raise taxes.

instead, we cut spending. clearly, the era of ever-expanding government had to come to an end. in fact, for the first time in 40 years, the budget for the state's all funds spending actually went down from one year to the next. by applying these fiscally conservative principles, you, the legislature, turned a $500 million deficit into a more than $100 million ending balance in one year. congratulations. [applause] the kansas legislature got its job done on time and under budget. thank you for doing that. those are the facts. and it's why now kansas is considered one of the ten best managed states in america. it is for these reasons, mr. speaker, mr. president, i can

report to you that the state of our state is strong, and getting stronger. [applause] last session the legislature gave our rural communities a new tool to help them reverse their population loss, and they have embraced the rural opportunity zone program, offering no income tax and buying down of student loan debt to new or returning residents. joining us tonight is benjamin anderson, ceo of the ashland health center. benjamin, if you would stand up i would appreciate it. his hospital, like many rural hospitals, has struggled to attract medical professionals. since the rural opportunity zone has gone into effect, ashland has recruited from out of state

doctors, nurses and social workers. and i met with benjamin today and he tells me they're not stopping there. they are playing to recruit a dentist, physical therapist and two more nurses. and they have people calling them. that's the kind of population reversal we need to see taking place in our rural counties. congratulations. [applause] and i would presume you tell me, benjamin, anyone who wants to move to ashland you would be happy to have been there and take care of them at the hospital. still, the economy reins one of our most pressing issues. while there are certainly factors a state cannot control when it comes to its economy, taxes are one area we do control. and when it comes to taxes, we have some of the highest in the region. this hurts our economic growth and job creation. to address this, i'm proposing a

major step in overhauling our state tax code to make it fairer, flatter, and simpler. my tax plan will lower individual income tax rates for all kansans. it brings the highest tax rate down from 6.45% to 4.9%, the second lowest in the region, and lowers the bottom tax bracket to 3%. my plan also eliminates individual state income tax on most small business income. as we modernize our tax code and lower everyone's rates, it is also time to level the playing field and simplify state taxes by eliminating income tax credits, deductions, and exemptions, while expanding assistance to low-income kansans through programs that are more effective and accountable. i firmly believe these reforms will set the stage for strong economic growth in kansas, and will put more money into the pockets of kansas families and

businesses. that's something we have to do. [applause] we've got to grow. we simply have to grow. and with this growth, this will allow us to further reduce our tax rates and increase our competitiveness even further. growth that will see people move to kansas instead of leaving our state. with that in mind, i ask the legislature to limit further growth in government expenditures to no more than 2% a year, and devote all additional revenues to reductions in state tax rates. to make us more competitive. [applause] this will get us ever closer to the pro-growth states with no state income taxes, which are

among the country's strongest economic performers. it also will enable us to keep the lid on state sales tax and property tax rates by providing robust economic growth. let's put our lost decade in th , where we lost jobs last decade, in the rearview mirror and speed ahead, at 75 miles per hour, to make this decade to decade of growth and job creation. [applause] now, on the budget, when i took office last year, the stitches into the last fiscal year with only $876 in the bank account. excuse me, $876.05.

i immediately instituted a policy of prioritizing expenditures and study our structural problems. this process required some difficult choices. last year when i addressed this body, i said that any fundamental solution to the state's budget problems must include reforming taxes, medicaid, the pension system and school finance. we also had to face the steep and continuous decline in federal money coming to kansas. that's a new reality. in the last year, working with a committed group of cabinet secretaries and this legislature, we began implementing the needed reforms. today i am pleased to present the results of this process. my proposed fiscal year 2013 budget provides for an ending balance of $465 million, exceeding the 7.5% statutory requirement.

and that for the first time in years. [applause] this budget fully funds or increases funding for essential services while holding state general fund expenditures below last year's levels. this budget begins to address the long term structural issues that placed the state in years of fiscal peril. now, concerning our debt. this budget also addresses the state's ever increasing debt that has created a generational burden sent to our sons, daughters and grandchildren. state government is about to experience an influx of money in the expanded gaming fund with the opening of facilities in wyandotte and sumner counties.

to reduce the burden we leave to our children and grandchildren, we should use this increased revenue for its most important statutory purpose, to pay down our debt. [applause] it is what we should do with it, and i hope you do that. now, on capers, for decades, state government shifted the burden of providing for state employees' retirement to future legislatures. it's always been kicking the can down the road. as a result, kpers has a shortfall of more than $8 billion. that's a huge hole, and the first rule of getting out of any hole is to stop digging. the kpers commission produced solid recommendations which will ensure that state government

meets its obligation to retirees. those who are currently receiving benefits or those who are vested in the current system will be fully protected. [applause] the state will increase its contributions to kpers and require more from workers to pay those benefits. but for all new employees and those not currently vested, we can and should transition to a defined contribution system, like most private sector organizations in america. [applause] the reason is simple, it guarantees that the state stays current in paying its bills and gives people the flexibility to freely move in and out of state employment instead of being trapped by our retirement system. state employees do important work and they deserve a fair and

funded pension system. it's time we do these reforms, put forward by the commission that does just that. [applause] now, on medicaid. we are committed to a strong, effective safety net for our most vulnerable kansans. medicaid spending has skyrocketed in recent years and it continues to play stress on funding for education, for public safety and other essential services. with additional funding cuts expected from the federal government, kansas must transform medicaid into a system that improves services while managing costs. many states have made the choice to either kick people off medicaid or pay doctors less. neither of those choices provides better outcomes. we have a better solution. the lieutenant governor, dr. jeff colyer, and our cabinet

team, with input from legislators and more than 1,800 stakeholders, have produced a measured, innovative and compassionate proposal. unlike the current one-size-fits-all system, we will offer all kansans a choice of plans that best fit their needs. kansans with long-term disabilities will have an integrated care coordinator. those with developmental disabilities can keep their case manager if they choose. many disabled kansans want to work, but are stuck in government programs that provide neither respect nor independence. i propose kansas be a national leader in helping the disabled find meaningful jobs. all kansans should have the opportunity to pursue their dreams. with jobs providing an off ramp from medicaid, we will be able help those in need of services and reduce our waiting list. for years medicaid was spread among several cabinet agencies.

this year we will continue to make government smaller and better focused by consolidating multiple agencies into a restructured department of aging and disability services. by running government more efficiently and effectively, we can save money and provide better service. now, on school finance. it is clear that the people of kansas know what's best for their kids. parents know better than elected officials. parents know better than federal bureaucrats. and parents know better than unelected judges. it is past time to get education dollars out of the courtroom and into the classroom. [applause]

it is also time to deal with this problem. the plan i put forward, as many of you have already been briefed on it know, straightforward. no district gets less money, and every district will get more flexibility. i want to repeat that. no district will see its state aid go down. i am proposing adding $459 in state funding for our poorest school districts. i also propose to give local school boards more flexibility to spend that money in the way they want because the government closest to the people works best. local districts should be allowed to invest in the excellence of their schools to the extent their voters believe is appropriate. as more districts make those investments, my plan establishes a mechanism which will protect poorer districts so that they too benefit. some people ask me why reform the school finance formula now? can't we just kick this can down

the road somewhere, for another year? the fact is the lawsuit is scheduled for trial this summer. and the people elected us, not the courts, to run our schools. it is time to do the new school finance formula, and to do it in this legislative session. [applause] now, this one that hasn't been adjusted in 20 years. the new school finance formula should be some cited after four years. thus ending the cycle of litigation and beginning a cycle of legislation. that's the way it should be handled. i hope you do that. now, one of the honors that my

professional life or the honor of my professional life has been to serve the people of kansas, people of kansas have allowed me to serve as secretary of agriculture, as congressman, senator, senator, and now as governor. one of the regrets i have is that moore has not been done to preserve our natural resources of water, particularly the ogallala aquifer. almost since statehood, we have told kansans with water rights they must use-it-or-lose-it. this has encouraged the overuse of water, particularly of the ogallala. i propose to repeal the use-it-or-lose-it doctrine of our water law. it is way past time we move from a development policy with our water to a conservation ethic. we have no future without water. this is altogether fitting and proper. [applause]

it is altogether fitting and proper we reduce the. for our government is not only a compact among those who are living, but a covenant with those who are yet to be. our great state is 150 years old. many have come before us and god willing many more will come after us. i would like to recognize the first kansans, our native american leaders who are with us tonight. if they would please come forward and stand. from the iowa tribe, chairman tim rhodd; kickapoo tribe, -- [applause] chairman steve cadue; and from

the prairie band potawatomi tribal, council treasurer, noah wahquahboshkuk. [applause] and i've got a special one for you. also joining us tonight is guy monroe, chairman of the kaw nation, also known as the kansa indians, after whom our state, kansas, is named. and of course, this building is crowned with the statue of a kansa indian, shooting for the stars. thank you, guy, for joining us. [applause] this last year we also celebrated some of our most

notable kansans. we had to kansas of assess consumer, the top 25, and it was an inspirational time. one of the most inspirational was clyde cessna, the man responsible as much as anyone for making wichita the air capital of the world. when we look at the achievements of great kansans, it's easy to overlook the fact that even for them not every day was a successful day. they knew tears in their time, setbacks, and reversals. clyde cessna survived thirteen crashes before he achieved a successful aircraft design. now, i might have quit after 45, but he found 13 ways the plane wouldn't fly before he decided he found the right one where it would fly. now, last weekend as we see some rough aviation news, suffered a setback. but even in the face of that, we see hope. yesterday, i was in wichita to announce an agreement with bombardier learjet which will see that company expand its workforce in wichita. and we aren't done.

there will be more. [applause] because, like clyde cessna, we're not going to quit. we're going to keep trying, keep innovating, keep growing. we're going to keep our faith in a loving god and a promising future, working together and praying together for a better kansas. i began tonight talking about my daughter's wedding. what a wonderful day. seeing your child get married inspires a few tears and many emotions. for one, it makes you feel very old. or shall we say more mature. [laughter] but it also reminds us of why we are here. that our season is short, the needs are great and people, particularly our children, are depending on us.

you as legislators sacrifice a great deal to be here. i appreciate that. the people of kansas appreciate that. you leave your homes, businesses and communities to come here and serve the people. thank you for what you do to make this a better state. i really do, and i say to on behalf of the people of kansas. because i know you don't always get people saying thank you, or always appreciative of what you do. even though everyone of you, no matter what political affiliation or what strive come is seeking to do the best for the people of the state of kansas. and i appreciate you, and the people appreciate you. and i can say together, we will succeed for making this state and into making the state a better place, for we must. thank you. god bless you all, and may god continue to bless the people of the state of kansas.

[applause] >> there's this shift that happened online where people's privacy is no longer owned by them. it's essentially currency that we use to get access to facebook for free or gmail. and i think it's a real problem that we'll see the effects over the next few years been about with the digital future look like? the impact of changing technology on business, the media and everyday life. "the communicators" tonight at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. in the coming up live tomorrow morning here on c-span2, house minority leader nancy pelosi. you can see a life again here on c-span2. >> i believe that it's important to emphasize that while it's great to have this memorial to

his memory and it's great to have a national holiday, and it's great to have streets and schools and hospitals named in his honor all over our nation and world, it is also important to not place too much emphasis on martin luther king, the idol, but not enough emphasis on the ideals of martin luther king, jr. >> take a look at the life and legacy of dr. martin luther king, jr., the civil rights movement and race relations in america today online at the c-span video library. search, watch, clip and shear. it's what you want when you want. >> democrat earl ray tomblin was elected governor of west virginia last year to fill out the term of joe manchin good been elected to the u.s. senate. in his first state of the state address since being elected governor taliban talks about expanding manufacturing and improving mine safety.

[inaudible] [applause] >> do you do anything else, or do i just take off from here?

[inaudible] please be seated. mr. president, mr. speaker, members of the board of public works, justices of the supreme court of appeals, members of the state board of education, members of the legislature, distinguished guests, and my fellow west virginians. i am humbled and honored to stand before you this evening. we are on the verge of experiencing a new and dynamic chapter in the history of west virginia. [applause] avenues of opportunities lay before us. there will be challenges along the way, but make no mistake, our trajectory is upward. it is our strength, talent,

creativity, and clarity of purpose that gives us the capacity to achieve greatness. and while we can achieve greatness, our success is not guaranteed. outcomes will be based on our willingness to use our unique abilities and skills for a greater west virginia. each of us can make a difference in the lives of our people and our state. and with the knowledge and confidence that the state of our state is stable and strong, now is the time to build on our strength. [applause] this is not washington d.c., where partisan bickering has subverted the legislative process. this is west virginia, where th -- [applause]

this is west virginia, where the republican and democrat, liberal and conservative, come together, resolve differences, and take decisive action. this ability was made clear, when we came together and overwhelmingly passed legislation to develop the marcellus shale, create jobs and provide economic benefits to the entire state. [applause] this is not washington d.c., where uncontrolled spending has led to uncertainty, a lack of confidence, and a fundamental breakdown in the operation of government. this is west virginia, where w -- [applause] this is west virginia, where we figured out in a realistic way to cut waste, balance the budget, reduce the tax burden,

and commit to our citizens and our businesses, that this is a great place to work, live, and play. [applause] this is not washington d.c., where the epa and other governmental agencies engage in back-door policy making tha threatens the lives of every, so many of our fellow citizens. this is west virginia, where we appreciate the need for reasonable, open environmental regulations but understand the fundamental need for jobs and for low cost, reliable energy developed right here in the united states of america. [applause] we have a responsibility to the people of west virginia to

manage our state's finances responsibly. i take this duty very seriously. our continued success depends on the choices that we make about every dollar we take in and every dollar we spend. not every governor can say this: the 2013 budget i present to you this evening is balanced. [applause] and i do not propose creating any new taxes. the budget i submit to you tonight contains $84 million in tax relief. [applause] as we promised, 10 days ago, the sales tax on food was reduced by 1% and another 1% reduction is scheduled in july.

this provides $54 million in relief directly to consumers in the state. and this year we have further reduced the tax burden on businesses by approximately $30 million, by lowering our business franchise and corporate net income tax rates. think for a moment about these changes. this administration and this legislature, in bipartisan cooperation, enacted these tax reductions for individuals and employers, all while balancing our budget and providing the essential services our citizens need. [applause] we in west virginia must continue to forge our own path. we must continue to build bridges between business and labor to create jobs. we must come together regardless

of our political persuasion, to put west virginia first. our citizens demand it, and their message is clear, they want good paying jobs. therefore, i ask each of you to join me tonight in building a better, stronger, and more vibrant west virginia, not just for tomorrow, but for generations to come. [applause] a year ago, i pledged to go anywhere, do anything, and spend every waking moment focused on encouraging the creation of more jobs. while we have had success, our focus, must remain laser sharp. our future demands that we create the right economic environment where the private sector is encouraged to invest, and create good paying jobs with benefits. jobs that allow every hard working west virginian the

ability to provide a good life for their family. after a year of leading our state, i want you to know that my commitment to that vision is stronger than ever. 2011 was a year of significant progress. companies invested almost $3 billion in our state. this is a 36% increase in investment over 2010. those investments reflect the diversified nature of the economy we are building. companies like toyota, who for the sixth time in their history here in west virginia has expanded, investing $64 million and adding 40 more jobs in putnam county. quad graphics in berkeley county made a $15 million investment to strengthen its manufacturing platform. this move will create 400 new local jobs.

caiman energy in marshall county will invest over a quarter of a billion dollars for a new processing plant; macy's will complete construction and open their berkeley county fulfillment center employing over 1,000 west virginians, amazon will create 200 new jobs and alcon over 300 jobs in cabell county. orrick, herrington & sutcliffe will grow in ohio county by another 100 jobs; rue 21's distribution facility in brooke county will expand and add 75 new jobs. and the list goes on and on. equally as important, i'm confident that this activity is only the beginning. we are helping our existing companies succeed and grow by exporting more of our resources and products around the world. for almost all of the past two

years west virginia has led the nation in export growth. once again in 2011 west virginia demonstrated our national leadership in energy production. we successfully recruited new companies like markwest liberty, which has announced that it will invest $400 million to build a new natural gas facility and pipeline in wetzel and marshall counties. other energy companies like weatherford international, superior appalachian pipeline, dominion transmission, american municipal power and aep are all making new investments in our state. aqua transfer and oilfield solutions, a high-tech company relying on natural gas development has chosen upshur county to open a new office that will create 50 jobs. in kanawha county, the audubon company is creating 75 jobs to provide engineering services for

oil, gas and the petrochemical industry. and of course, companies such as arch, alpha, alliance, united coal, patriot and countless other mining companies continue to invest in west virginia, maintaining and creating jobs. coal is and always will be a part of our future. [applause] our state continues to demonstrate that it can compete on a global level in a worldwide economy. one such example is carbonxt, inc., an australian based company, which recently announced plans to build a $30 million plant to convert coal into pure carbon. a product which will help make coal-fired plant emissions burn cleaner.

this clean coal technology will be produced here in kanawha county and will create 40 high-tech, manufacturing jobs. all of these are important investments in our state and we should all be proud that these companies share our confidence in west virginia and her people. and, while we have made progress and our unemployment rate is below the national average, we need more good paying, stable jobs. too many of our citizens are still suffering from the recent recession. we must stop the outsourcing of american jobs to foreign countries. we must reinvigorate manufacturing in our state. this is west virginia where made in america still has meaning. [applause]

as leaders of this state, we need to understand that our mission is to create a business climate that fosters job development. it is our responsibility to have the discipline, the know-how, the determination and most importantly, the pride, to take steps that will unleash the engines of our economic future. we must be responsible stewards of state finances and live within our means. we did that with our west virginia unemployment trust fund. our fund is stable and solvent. while 27 other states have had to borrow billions of dollars from the federal government to pay benefits, we have not borrowed one dime. [applause] and now, those states, have had no other choice but to levy

higher taxes, which makes west virginia more attractive. we took the necessary steps to reform and privatize our workers' compensation system. that effort has resulted in rates that have been reduced by more than 47% since 2005. our premiums are now below the national average. our hard work is paying off. our bond ratings continue to improve, and that saves taxpayers money. let me now speak very directly about one of my problems with washington. as long as i am governor i will continue to fight this administrations war on coal. [applause]

a few months ago, a federal court agreed with our lawsuit and ruled that the federal epa had in fact overstepped its authority. i will keep fighting until washington recognizes that one of the keys to america's future is the use and promotion of our natural resources. it is a fight from which i will not shrink, and one that i fully expect to win. [applause] just as we must continue to mine coal, we must make certain that our miners are safe. we have created a new rock dusting laboratory. we have increased the number and the salaries for our mine inspectors.

we are re-checking our rescue chambers to make sure that they are safe. and, we have diligently worked to determine the causes of the upper big branch disaster to make sure a disaster like that never happens again. [applause] to build on this progress, i will submit legislation designed to improve mine safety. this legislation will enhance rock dusting standards, protect whistleblowers, mandate methane sensors at long walls, and increase pre-shift reviews. we will prohibit mines from announcing that an inspector is coming, and we will provide more training for self-rescuers. [applause] we will also begin a year-long

study on the training of our inspectors, our foremen, and our miners. coal mining is a dangerous profession, but we can make it safer. one death in our mines is one death too many. [applause] finally, now is the time to make sure that our mines are drug free. much like virginia and kentucky, we will implement our own drug-testing program. no workplace can tolerate a person impaired by drugs, particularly in our mines. [applause] in addition to our use of coal, there is a new opportunity of which we must take advantage. thousands of feet below the surface of west virginia is the marcellus shale.

the extraction of natural gas and other byproducts can be a significant job creator and provide billions of dollars' worth of economic benefits to our state. we've taken the first step. with broad bipartisan support this legislature passed reasonable regulations to protect the environment while providing the regulatory certainty needed to encourage new job opportunities right here at home. [applause] tonight, i am proud to announce that new, good paying, permanent jobs will be coming to harrison county based in part on the growing opportunities associated with the development of the marcellus shale. the baker hughes company will create 275 new jobs at a new $40 million facility to be built along interstate 79.

this is one more tangible sign of the enormous potential to create west virginia jobs through the responsible development of our natural resources. [applause] we thank baker hughes and we welcome chad deaton, executive chairman of the board of directors and george bernhardt, managing counsel, who are with us here tonight. would you please stand up? [applause] natural gas can help reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil. cost effective technology is now available to retrofit our vehicles to run on natural gas. i have entered into an agreement with seven other states to work with automakers to encourage increased production of cars that run on natural gas.

we will also explore the conversion of some of our fleet operations to natural gas. it makes sense to start using fuels for our cars and buses that we produce right here in west virginia. it is in america's best interest, and we can lead the way. of course, one of the biggest potential benefits of the marcellus shale development is the opportunity to re-energize manufacturing in our state. one ethane cracker, by itself, would mean a multi-billion dollar, multi-year investment in west virginia with thousands of construction jobs and hundreds of good paying permanent jobs. the american chemistry council estimates that we could create an additional 12,000 manufacturing jobs in west virginia with the construction of an ethane cracker. this session i will submit legislation to further refine our incentives in a fashion i

believe will strengthen our competitiveness in achieving that goal. [applause] and let me be clear about my intentions. i will do everything in my power to make sure that west virginia is positioned to take full advantage of this opportunity. i will not limit our efforts to just one project or even two. we will compete for every project, every dollar of investment and every new job that relies on the natural resources with which we have been so blessed. [applause] it is essential that we don't forget the importance that modern infrastructure plays in west virginia's economic future. we must find innovative ways to invest in safe water and sewer systems, invest in new and

improved schools, in roads and broadband access. to aid in this goal, i will submit legislation that will call for 50% of surplus revenues to be placed in an infrastructure fund once the rainy day fund reaches 15% of the general revenue. [applause] we have to invest in ourselves if we expect others to invest in us. while speaking about infrastructure, let me take a moment to focus on driver safety. with the advent of iphones, blackberries, 4g networks, and texting, the number of people who are using mobile phones while driving has and continues to increase. and, with that increase, there has been an equally dramatic increase in the number of driving fatalities where distracted driving was involved.

this is a dangerous activity. it is unsafe and it puts all drivers at risk, especially our young people. now is the time to save lives. i will submit legislation that will ban the use of cell phones without hands-free equipment and text messaging while driving. [applause] i want west virginians to remain free from distracted drivers on our public highways. as we embark upon a new year, we tend to take stock of where we have been and make note of where we are going. at no other time has this sense of past and future resonated more, than with the joy and anticipation of our troops coming home. let us express our heartfelt thanks.

i would like to introduce sergeant first class benjamin gentry iii and staff sergeant james providenti, who were part of the first and last units deployed to iraq and first sergeant robert cassas, who was deployed in afghanistan. we are so glad that the best among us, who volunteered t serve and protect us, are back. gentlemen, please stand up. welcome home. [applause]

[applause] as we welcome our troops' home and way for others to return, we must do all that we can to help provide rewarding opportunities for our heroes. they are returning with significant skills and experiences learned from their military training, and that would lead to opportunities here at home. that is why i am proud to announce the west virginia employment initiative program. now is the time to increase employment opportunities for military members and veterans by providing job training and vocational counseling, facilitating job searches, and referring qualified applicants to job openings. it is right and fitting that we

do all that we can to serve those who have served us; sacrificed for us and done so much to preserve our freedom and protect us from harm. [applause] everything i have touched on tonight centers around providing job opportunities for all west virginians. speaking of good jobs, i want you to join me in congratulating two outstanding universities that took us to victory in two bowl games this year. let's express true west virginia pride by congratulating coach doc holiday of marshall and tyler rader of west virginia university. [applause]

let me be clear that nothing is more important to creating good jobs than providing a world class education for both our children and adults. the world economy demands lifetime learning. we must start by refocusing our education system on the best interest of the student. if we want our children to have a future of their own choosing, we must meet their educational needs from the first day of school until graduation and beyond. we must elevate our aspirations, and challenge one another to participate in the world as productive, income-earning members of society. to get a better understanding of

best practices in our sister states and identify efficiencies in our education system, we hired outside private experts to conduct an efficiency audit. as a result of that work, we now have ideas that can save approximately $90 million for use in our education system every year. these recommendations have the potential to eliminate overlap and allow our schools to work smarter and more efficiently. the audit identified potential areas where west virginia can develop its own best practices for our education system. the audit recommends using new technologies to assist rural communities, giving local officials more authority over their schools, better methods for evaluating teachers, enhancing our teacher mentoring program, and adequately compensating our professional educators. we cannot achieve all of these

goals overnight. but it is one of my highest priorities. every west virginian concerned about our education system needs to take the opportunity to review and discuss this report so we can begin to take advantage of its recommendations, and do so in a way that is right for west virginia. ..

and then asked her to obtain the better and those fresh juice. the legislation will be implemented in court nation would reconnect team project, a public credit partnership involving over 40 organizations that will focus on everything from jobs and economic development, housing and transportation, take knowledge and services for students and their family. and that this time, i would like to recognize one of our partners in this effort, mr. randi weingarten, president of the american federation of teachers. randy. [applause]

>> and supported this effort tonight, i am pleased to announce the children both match $1 billion estate funds of $500,000 investment in the tao county. [applause] save the children or partner with three elementary schools and administrators to focus on literacy. children of rural county should have the same chance to succeed as children who lived in the most affluent areas of america. [applause] because it is, i am confident that we will bring these opportunities to the children of the tao county. i'm also confident that these efforts will serve up what we could do it with our together.

[applause] learning opportunities, not forms that are not raised that day just to the classroom. another landmark educational opportunity for citizens, and for our young people all over the world, is taking shape in fayette county. in 2013, the national boy scout jamboree will attract more than 50,000 boy scout leaders from across the country to their new home of the boy scouts of america at the summit bechtel reserve. [applause] in 2019, for the first time in 50 years, the world jamboree will return to the united states and bring 80,000 scouts and their families to this spectacular hills of west

virginia. [applause] we pledge to make the scouts is proud of their decisions to come to our state as we are to have been here. i want to introduce to you now, mike patrick, the co of summit bechtel reserve and steve savitz had come to lead volunteer for the boy scouts of america and not that she join me in taking them for choosing west virginia as the scouts permanent home. [applause]

we must also continue to bridge the gap between our education system, in its research components and the potential for new business development with job creation. one of the best example is that the fusion of these three areas can be found in morgantown at protea biosciences. protea was launched as a spinoff from west virginia university in 2001. it was largely financed by the west virginia jobs investment. summit bechtel protea sisters might recognize as one of the top 10 innovative technology companies for the life sciences. [applause] this recognition was development of a first of its kind imaging technology that allows for real-time imaging of live cells. the result is that protea, a

company it will revolutionize the precision and speed of which cancer is diagnosed and monitored. protea represents in every way what i know west virginia can produce with smart partnerships between our colleges, universities and the private sector. [applause] and as we do every year, i also want to congratulate a teacher who strives to bring out the best in their students. it is very encouraging to note that we have wonderful, committed teachers like bob morris of clay county high school. mr. morris is the toyota motor manufacturing blue cross blue shield teacher of the year. bob teaches agriculture and forest tree and clay county while also continuing his education through someone's own

program. let's recognize but more as this of the year and thanks have to come and general toyota and mike lutz, manager of toyota manufactures a west virginia, along with fred earley, president and captain mcallister, communications manager high mark across blue shield for their continuing support of education. so please stand. [applause] reducing the unemployment rate is not just about education or the availability of jobs.

unfortunately, there are some places in west virginia where jobs are available, but they're not enough qualified, drug-free west virginians to fill them. illegal drug use in the abuse of prescription drugs affects all of us. it is an equal opportunity destroyer of dreams and lives. it affects the poor, the affluent, the educated, and everyone in between. that is why this past year i found the governor substance-abuse advisory council and six regional tax forces. my advisory council and task forces have been in the fact, working with prevention, detection and treatment experts in order to increase the access and effectiveness of our substance abuse programs. solving our chart problems is not just about increasing criminal penalties. i have learned that we must use technology to fight our chart problems and enhance

enforcement. we must use our prescription drug monitoring program so that when an abuser tries to doctor a pharmacy shop, we stop it. [applause] i have also learnt that far too often graduates in our state programs do not return to the workforce because they cannot pass the drug test. when this happens, we have lost valuable education dollars. we have lost a productive member of our community and we have lost the opportunities to strengthen our economy. i will therefore require that individuals pass a drug screening prior to enrolling in the state taxpayer-funded workforce training programs. now is the time to get serious about ending drug abuse and

addiction. [applause] tackling our stagestruck problems will take time, commitment and perseverance. at the same is true with respect to handling the state's finances. our nation is still recovering from the worst recession since the great depression. the global economy is threatened by instability in europe and beyond. the ballooning federal debt means that we can expect the federal government to make decisions that will negatively impact our state. but this is west virginia. our state's finances are a source of strength. we have a proven track record of balancing budgets. we have one of the best rainy day funds and the nations come

with a surplus of over $820 million. we pay our bills on time and we keep our financial commitments to our retirement systems. over the past several years, we've taken steps to reduce the corporate net income tax interface that the sales tax on food as well as business franchise tax. these tax changes provide relief for taxpayers while making our state more competitive for business growth. while we can be very proud of these accomplishments, we cannot rest on our laurels. we face features on transit future with exploding medicaid expenses, increased enrollment, medical cost inflation, declining lottery revenues, and certain economic times. we will meet these challenges at the same pragmatic approach that we've applied over the past 25 years as we have grown from a state on the brink of bankruptcy to become a beacon of fiscal health and in a nation where

shortfalls have been the norm. we changed our mindset and are spending practices to accomplish fiscal stability. and it has made all the difference in the world. while i am pleased with the success, we have one more come a large chest in an application that we must address for the future of our state: other postemployment and if it's worth opeb. [applause] we knew we had some high choices to make and remake them. along with that commitment to act responsibly, just last month the peia board took a monumental step forward to cut our opeb liability in half. this was a significant burden led by a host of groups, including several unions. and i want to thank them for stepping up to the plate and helping to solve this issue.

today, opeb is the last unfunded liability we have to face and i will provide specific legislation this session to eliminate it once and for all. [applause] with opeb under control, west virginia will have the ability to reach the upper echelon of financial strength and stability. this is a business investors want to see, a faith that can stand some financially. west virginia has proven it can stand on its own in recent investments have demonstrated that west virginia is the state where businesses want to invest and create jobs. more jobs and lower taxes, it's not just a slogan. it's a strategy. together we are making them happen in west virginia. we will not only celebrate her accomplishments. we will reshape our future.

we will build a new west virginia, where our schools prepare our children for future employment, our communities are drug-free, good jobs are plentiful and our families can send prosper in west virginia. help me make this happen. together we can make a difference. together we can make west virginia all it can be. now is the time. thank you, god bless you, god bless america, and god bless the great state of west virginia. thank you. [applause] >> there's this tectonic shift

that eventually happen online, where people, privacy is no longer owned and is essentially currency that we used to get access to facebook for free or gmail. i think it's a real problem we will see the effects over the next two years. >> i believe it's important to emphasize that while it's great to have his memorial to his memory and it's great to have a national holiday and it's great to have streets and schools and hospitals named in his honor all over our nation and world, it is

also important to not place too much emphasis on martin luther king, the ipo, but not enough instances on the ideals of martin luther king junior. >> washington state governor, christine gregoire delivered her last state of the state address last week. she called to a same-sex couples to marry and reflected on her eight years in office. [applause] [cheers and applause] >> thank you.

>> thanks everyone. thank you. [cheers and applause] >> thank you all very much. thank you. thank you, everyone. let's start this morning to observe a moment of silence for some who have served washington so well and who have passed away recently. let us remember your calling, senator scott white, who sat they left us in the prime of his public service. let us remember two men who gave us so much during their time in

office. senator alice ezio, senator bob kaplan. and let us remember always, governor al mussolini. al was a mentor to me and one of the best friends the state ever had. and also, please remember the nine washingtonians who lost their lives in afghanistan and iraq, serving our country. and just last week, the normally i do like mount rainier national park was witness to the lhasa park ranger margaret henderson who died in the line of duty. we will please join me in a moment of silence in their honor. thank you. good afternoon, everyone. first, can i say thank you nisha

burger for starting us off with such an aspiring prayer. we thank you. may god bless you. and thank you for your beautiful performance of our national and. you are future. remember public-service, political office is in your future. [laughter] mr. president, mr. speaker, and madam chief justice and distinguished justices of our court, honored officials, members of the washington state legislature, former governor, tribal leaders, local government officials, members of the cancer association of washington, my fellow citizens. at some of my family today. my daughter courtney and her son-in-law, scott are with me, but i am pleased to say they are moving back. and after it not so, but has been steadfast and finally got my wish. my extended family, thank you

for being here today, all of you and to nanook requires watching at home who turned 90 years young. we are sorry you're not here to join us today. here with me as my daughter michelle. it shows a second-year law student. she loves it. go figure. [applause] in may has mike, i think you all know he is number one champion for the veterans of the state of washington in this nation. thank you, mike. [applause] mike is not only a great husband, my best friend and a great dad, but i am noticing something else lately. as he gets older, he is becoming even more athletic. on channel 60, football and share 13, soccer on channel 32.

so michelle, god will not be making dinner this evening. as for me, i have a very complicated relationship with growing older. first i get carded at the tavern and i'm getting hearing it offers in the mail. but as mike and my staff will tell you, i am not slowing down, not this year. and that is because today i begin my last year as governor of my beloved great state of washington. we are in a time of great challenge and even greater opportunity. yes, challenge and opportunity. like so much else, the 24 hour news cycle, the source of us a bit is their meaning. not today, not for me, not in the year 2012. for me it is covered those two words meant anything, it is right here and it's right now. while our challenges are unprecedented, so to our our

opportunities. karen r. washington, we turn crisis into opportunity. why? because we have a culture and history of both personal and shared responsibility. when things get tough, we step out. we step up individually and together to build our future. today we cover in a nation where someone even talk to each other, much less compromised, believe in compromise is just another word for surrender. but here in washington, we don't say my way of the highway. we say let's work together to solve our problems. but is best for our washington is more important than politics. many believe that government is the whole problem and many believe it is the whole solution. that is not our washington. here we know that government can't do it all, but we also at what a great schools, good heavies and safe communities. many believe we should just write out this great recession

or use this time of economic stress to dismantle our government. but that is not our washington. he rebuilt the the roads and bridges are people and businesses must have in order to succeed. we keep our streets safe. we hope the poor and the vulnerable. we educate our children and young people and we keep our land, air and water clean for them and their children. many believe the whole system is broken and there are no answers. but that is not our washington. here if things don't work, we reinvent them. please fix things. a new airplane or a better, faster, cheaper government. we are built on innovation at louisville fast. that is why we are the home to boeing and microsoft, amazon, starbucks, the gates foundation, clean energy companies, global health and the most inventive

and dynamic in the world. and that is why eastern washington because of its agriculture is called the refrigerator the world. today it's our time. it is our time to practice the courage and compassion handed to us by parents and grandparents. it's our time to rebuild beaches and highways. it is our time to create jobs now and for the future. it's our time to keep streets safe and it's our time to give our young people the education and knowledge they will need to succeed in a world economy. we must succeed. you know, i just read a great new book called, that used to be yes. it's tom friedman and michael mandelbaum. to take a critical look at where america has banned them from the me one metaphor really stood out. for generation after generation they write, america knew how to win in the terms.

winning the turns. what does that mean exactly? in short it means that when it hits the gas pedal just when everybody else is hitting the brakes. visualize yourself on a racetrack, racing on a sunny day and suddenly without warning you are in a sharp high-speed turn. when and if you make it through come you find the world around you has utterly changed. the winner of that race, the one with the determination to strike in a changed world is the one who sees that sudden turn as an opportunity. the winner takes the risk to pass everybody in the turn and is now leading the past. that's winning in the turn. and the great economic turn we are in now, some question if our country or state will win this time. when the recession ends, will he be ahead of the competition in education, infrastructure,

economic development? will we come out of the turn in front of the pack and ready to go? or will it be set back fighting for position with the also-ran? natter washington. we must, we can and we will be out ahead. [applause] we know how to win in the turn. we know how to come out ahead. we have done it time and time again. there was a recession in the early 70s. so bad that somebody put up a billboard asking the last person in seattle to turn out the lights. but governor dan evans worked with the legislature, controlled by democrats to carry out his washington future and send five ballot measures to the voters. the result was new community colleges, water systems for homes and industry of irrigation. new and refurbished recreational

policies and expanded health facilities. democratic legislature, republican governor and the people of washington won in the turn. there was a scary turn in 1983, the worst recession since governor john spellman, democratic senate and house had the urge to protect the future of our children. they approved a penny increase in the sales, focused on education. again, we won in the turn. by the way, each time washington survived an economic crisis and rebuilt his future, it has not been about political party. it has been about the future of our great state. [applause] it's now up to us. this is our time. our time to win in the turn.

our time to build a better future for our children and grandchildren. so in the next 60 days, i ask you to do four things. one, use the early start you got in december and quickly pass a budget. two, asked the voters this spring to approve a temporary half penny sales tax increase for students and their teacher. [applause] three, three, pass school reform. and four, pass a major transportation and jobs package. [applause] first, let's solve the budget problem. he made a down payment in december. i know these are some of the most difficult decisions of your courier, but i ask you to finish

quickly because every day the problem gets bigger and the choices get harder. since wall street handed us this mess nearly four years ago, we have cut and cut and cut. a projected $10.5 billion we are still not done. we have cut k-12 by china 6%. four year colleges by 46% and community colleges by 26%. our social safety net is free. we have closed five major institutions, including three prisons and one juvenile facility. the last time we shut down even one with nearly 40 years ago. that's some states are talking about reform, or we are not talking. we are reforming. we have made our pension system one of the five most sustainable in the united states. [applause]

our state work force is down nearly 10% and falling. the simplest left are working harder with lower salaries and pay more for benefits. i want to thank them for surfing, particularly in these uncertain times. [applause] we have made the biggest reset of state government and decade. today, we are more cost efficient. we're smaller, faster and effective. we are working towards a more sustainable budget and the one term. historic reforms brought five workers comp rates this year and historic lows and unemployment insurance rates. that is good news for small businesses, which have been hurt the most are in this recession and the absolute key to our recovery. [applause]

one of the fastest growing, biggest and most complicated drivers of our budget is health care. we are bringing in the significant results. we've cut medicaid inflation to 2.3%, one of the lowest in the country. [applause] and unlike other states, we have not used this recession to undermine the environmental protections that provide what we value. clean air, clean water and healthy, natural resources. [applause] but all that doesn't mean our work is done. no one comes to public service thinking the status quo is good enough. no one comes to public service saying we shouldn't find a better, more efficient way to send paint. it is the whole reason we all

serve. and these times amplify the need. this year is no different. while we must cut, we must also find real reform that will preserve our ability to preserve our citizens while modernizing our practices. and while we must cut and reaffirm again, we must also realize that this problem demands a courageous solution we must look for new revenue for the state of washington. [applause] so close tax loopholes to save vital services like the basic health programs for the working it's a matter of fairness. [applause] and that brings me to my second point.

we must protect our vulnerable humans and the developmentally disabled. we have to educate our students and provide public safety for families. so i ask you to send to voters a temporary half cent sales tax to save those vital services. ladies and gentlemen -- [applause] ladies and gentlemen, make no mistake. we were about to shred very core services. it is time for all of us here in this chamber to stand up for washingtonians. well, i know the sales tax is regressive. you know what i find even more aggressive? the cuts in education to look at as low income students partners. it's more cuts in our social safety net to poor seniors and people with developmental disabilities and it's cut to public safety that will impact

the most. that's regressive. [applause] remember, the last time that we raised the state sales tax was 1983 under a republican governor during the worst recession until this one. so today i ask you to listen to your heart as well as to your heads. will the 85-year-old woman was failing health when used to live in dignity at home find a progressive? québec student who faces the difference between a mediocre education or a great one find a progressive? both have family living in fear of a criminal getting a raise in five minutes early with little supervision find it regressive? no. they will say it is the right thing to do because it is and

they will remember that we didn't wait for things to get better. we made them better. [applause] without the halfpenny, we lose far more than mccain. we lose our future. we lose our values. we lose our way. like governors and legislators in the past, it's our time to do something very hard. it is our time to ask for sacrifice from everyone. ask everyone to contribute to our future so everybody went in the turn. now how do we went? hideaway leave the rest of the world and the rest of the country? we outpace, out educate and outperform our businesses, our state, children and grandchildren cannot afford any more deep cuts in education.

about 411 million of the 494 million in the sales tax revenue would go to k-12 and higher education. [applause] we need the school day to be 180 days or longer, not 176. we need to help our property for districts and we need to start raising college tuition. [applause] it comes down to four simple words. no education, no job. this is our time. the value of quality education just as our parents and grandparents did. so today urge you to act on my request and includes school reform. now as governor, ice and too

many schools and i've never seen a great classroom without a great teacher or a great school with. we have a new evaluation system that's been built from the bottom-up. now you must ensure that every classroom throughout our state has a good teacher in every school has a good principle. our state deserves nothing less. [applause] we must turn around our feelings cools once and for all. we're going to do that by asking our public universities to use bold, innovative programs and partner with low performing schools. the universities will innovate, research and teach. to give our students the educational advantage they need and will take their successful work all across our state. like so many of our reforms, i

predict this to to become a model for the nation. we cannot address the education gap we have with the rest of the world until we address the one we have right here in our own home state. speaking of education gaps, thank you for acting so quickly to make certain we are trained workers and engineers for current aerospace tech fair. i'm counting on you to fund this educational opportunities. all of our students, not just those who can afford it must have more sales and more knowledge to be able to compete in this century. in business, they find cracks in the system than they fix them. in government, we find cracks in the system and we study them. but do not of student achievement, we can move to action and fix the gap. from high school to college to ensure that our students enter the work place and not behind,

but ahead the term. when we asked voters to invest in education, let's show them to be getting their money's worth. good teachers, good principles, good schools and the most knowledgeable graduates in the united states. [applause] speaking out innovation and competition. let's celebrate. let's celebrate our work on early childhood education, resulting in a race to the top reward of $60 million. [applause] the federal government found out what we know. and that is, if we invest in early learning and makes their child is really ready to learn,

they'll succeed. we started the department of early learning in 2006 and created a public private partnership. that small investment will bring returns throughout the life of the child in our state will be better for it. if we invest $411 million in our schools and college, we'd implement these innovative reforms and if we use our can-do spirit, we can give our children the best education in the united states. now before thing i ask you to do is to create jobs now and for the future by investing in our transportation infrastructure. we have got to step up to proper maintenance of our very valuable transportation system. from highways to bridges, two theories on city streets. when we build roads, they don't take care of themselves. when you buy a car, you pay for

it and then you maintain it or do change the oil would take triers and make the repair. it's the same at the roads, bridges and. we bought them new, but unfortunately we didn't put on the site for maintenance. the consequence for us as a wake-up call. we are facing a $1.6 billion shortfall over the next 10 years, just to maintain our state highways. without maintenance, that means that goes. more potholes, more congestion. further, we are facing a $1.3 billion deficit and our ferry system maintenance. i sounded the alarm last year without new funding, our ferry system will not survive as we know it. they would completely eliminate five roots and reduce service throughout the entire system, just to maintain where we are today, we must act. so today, i propose a

$3.6 billion ten-year package to create about 5500 jobs a year to maintain our transportation infrastructure across the state. in addition to small fee increases, i will ask you to pass a list $1.50 fee on every barrel of oil produced in washington. our oil companies are getting all of the prophet and leaving us with the bill. we can do better. [applause] this package will also get money to a city thing can use to fill potholes, repair roads, update pages and keep buses running. it would give them the option to raise additional money for maintenance and transmit. we can't wait until roads,

bridges and are falling apart to fix them. we can't kick the can down the road and siler future generations at the repairs we failed to make. this is the year to act and to approve a jobs package and invest in our future. our own bill gates says the way that you get ahead and stay ahead is educating more people, attract more talent in maintaining and building better infrastructure than the other guys. we are better than the other guys. if we are, our businesses and workers are going to go elsewhere. our transportation system is the lifeblood of our economy. in this people to work, goods to market and promotes our tourism industry. if we don't maintain and grow, we will come to a standstill. so this summer, i convened connecting washington, a task force to look at how to build our economic cord.

this 30 member group realized that our challenge is big and our time is short. it is time for all of us to have a serious conversation with washingtonians about the importance of building new infrastructure, that our businesses and employees need. even in these hard times, connecting washington recommended a minimum $21 billion investment in our vital economic corridors. these projects and more demands serious attention. the columbia river crossing, spokane, north-south corridor, snowfall path, rubin 67 between tacoma and douala, the 40-mile corridor, a mere 144 car ferry and high five at mccord. consider this -- consider this.

the old infilling columbia river crossing supports $40 billion in commerce a year and 130,000 jobs in warehouses and distribution centers are the ports of vancouver and portland alone. yes, the northbound bridge was built in 1917. it was built to accommodate horse and buggy and it is still the last stoplight on isi. or consider this. snoqualmie pass is the only correct route for projects going from eastern "washington times" to our sound ports and for products flowing from those forced to eastern washington and beyond. that is $80 billion in cargo through the critical corridor every year. now, i record of success with transportation products is

strong. from the 2005 voter approved gas tax, we are close to completing all 421 statewide projects. 88% have been completed early or on time. 91% on or under budget. that is real accountability and we can do it again. educate ourselves, educate the public and build ourselves, edue public and build a better transportation system than the other guys. [applause] do people often ask me if we can come back from this great recession. i tell them, we can, we will, we are. our ports and their good paying jobs are booming. international trade is searching with year over year exports up

nearly 30% and our second biggest export after transportation of agriculture. newcomer free-trade agreements with south korea, panama and korea open new markets for washington. our expanding global health and life science that yours are spreading not only beyond to the sound of tri-cities, spokane of vancouver. they are spreading around the globe. our software and i.t. industries are thriving, including the double-digit jump in microsoft earnings just last quarter ended 8% jump in software jobs. and how about the backbone of our manufacturing sector? airspace with its 650 companies in washington. tony levin was an historic year. for one of washington's signature industries. it took a village to make it happen. it started last february, when the $35 billion contract to build a new generation of 200

air force and all of us, labor, management, democrats and republicans worked together to bring back contracts with its 11,000 jobs. [applause] in september, the first boeing 787, a game changing composite airplane, 20% more fuel-efficient and as high-tech as they come was delivered to all airwaves, the 787 is the future. it is built right here in washington state. [applause] in december, the boeing company and the machinist agreed to an historic five-year contract, assuring the 737 fax will be

here with a projected 20,000 jobs in $500 million in tax and revenue. and that was followed by the largest order ever for boeing. 208 airplanes, all of them 730 sevens are the 730 sevens max. we are winning at the turn in an aerospace industry in washington state. [cheers and applause] harassed for state government, what we saw in 2011 reminds us when the economy out of this term more competition means that. it is our turn to win and it is our responsibility. now, asq to pass budgets. spend a revenue proposal, reform education and invest in our

transportation infrastructure to create jobs now and into the future. that is a bold agenda. and involves risk and encourage but i have one more. variant porton request. our washington has always fought discrimination. it is time for us to do it again. it is time for marriage equality. [applause] [cheers and applause]

let's tell the children are same-sex couples that their parents relationship is the goal is to all in the state. let's pass a marriage equality bill and the great state of washington. [applause] ladies and gentlemen, as you labor in the next 60 days, i respect we ask you to take a minute each day to stop into a flag. take time to look back and see how we came to be the great state that we are. take time to understand and appreciate what our courageous and visionary parents and grand parents did for us, what governors and legislators and voters stood for us when it was their time to act.

and remember, this is our time. it is our time to give our children what we're getting. a good education. our time to modernize transportation to put people to work and make sure their jobs in the future. our time to leave no one behind. and our time to protect their communities. the future of our state is in our hands now. we have to do what is very hard. but do it we must. and together. let's show the people that in our washington, we were together. democrats, republicans and independents. and that history reflect that we took the risk that we were courageous we were determined and we were bold. was one of the turn and leave an even greater state to our children and grandchildren. thank you, god bless you and god bless the the great state of

washington. [cheers and applause] [cheers and applause] >> there's this tectonic shift that essentially happens online, where people, privacy is no longer owned by them. it's essentially currency that we use to get our system to facebook or gmail. i think it's the real problem that we will see the effects of

over the next few years. a quick reminder, the deadlines soon for c-span's videocam competition. this serious middle and high school students which part of the constitution has meaning for you and why. there is a grand prize of $5000.50000 in total prizes. get your five to eight minute documentary to c-span by friday, january 23rd for last-minute details, go online to student kim.org.

>> i believe that it is important to emphasize that while it is great to have this memorial to his memory and it's great to have a national holiday and it's great to have streets and schools and hospitals named in his honor all over our nation and world, it is also important to not place too much emphasis on martin luther king the idle, but not enough incense on the ideals of martin luther king jr. >> the international spy museum in washington last week looked back at intelligence gathering and 2011 the former fbi counterintelligence direct or come who also served on the national security council under president reagan. this is about two hours.

>> good evening. welcome to the international spy museum. i am amanda ohlke, adult education director here. i am delighted to introduce or 2011 espionage debriefed, a worldwide year in review. our speaker this evening, david major is a founding word member of the international spy museum. he told me i couldn't say he was esteemed board member because that would make him sound old. he is not old.ld make him so but he is una retired fbi supervisory special agent and director of counterintelligence, nctelligence and s securitycoune nograms for the nsc under reagan. he is the founder of the csn or come which provides counterintelligence and security provides counterintelligence, security studies, and trading. -- training. without further ado, i will turn

it over to david major. you are in for a dazzling evening, and i hope your heads are clear and are ready to absorb an intense and exciting amount of information. [applause] >> that is a heck of a start. first of all, thank you for coming out on a rainy night like today. it is difficult to drive in washington at any time, especially in weather like this. what we want to do is show you the reality of the world today. this is sponsored by the international spy museum, a database that keeps track of what is happening in the entire world in the world of espionage and terrorism. my own background -- i have been doing this blogger than most of you have been alive, but i look out and i see people with

white hair and i feel comfortable when i see demographics like that. i did notice the black and white picture, the fbi photograph when i joined the bureau. i spent my entire career doing counterintelligence and counterterrorism. i eventually worked in the national security council for ronald reagan as the director of counterintelligence programs. first time they ever put counterintelligence on the policy table. it was an interesting experience, because the first time i walked into the oval office to shake hands with ronald reagan, he said to me, "you know, i was an informant for the fbi." my answer was, "of course, we are proud of that fact," lying blatantly, because i did not know he had been an informant for the fbi. how come i spent my entire career doing this i do not know that part, that during the

1940's he was an informant for the bureau when he was president of actors guild? it made me think about we need a center of excellence to look at this important discipline called counterintelligence, and that is how the cia centere -- the ci center came to be. we are going to look at the world. we are going to look at a variety of ways. we are going to look at what intelligence agencies and operatives around the world, l are like. i will probably run out of time before i run out of cases. it turns out that every year is a big year. we are going to look today -- it was not a good year for some intelligence chiefs around the world. we are going to try to define what is this thing of espionage we talk about, because every nation has a different nation has a different definition of what