my dear friend coming your dearest friend never had a more the chongging data and yesterday. a solemn seen it was indeed, and was made more affecting to me by the presidents of general washington, whose confidence was a serene and unclouded as the day. he seemed to me to enjoy a triumph over me and i have heard him think i am fairly out and you are fairly and. [laughter] see which of us will be happiest. when the ceremony was over he came and made me a visit and cordially congratulated me and wished my administration might be happy, successful and honorable. i had not slept well the night before and didn't sleep well tonight after. i was on well and i didn't know whether i should get through or not. i did, however. how the business was received i know not.

only i have been told that the treaty publisher said we should lose nothing by the change for he never heard such a speech in public in his life. all agree that taken together it was the sublime ever exhibited in america. >> john was whether his family suffered too much for his lack of attention during a quarter-century he contributed to the creation of the nation. abigail pushed him to go forward without regret. >> philadelphia, december 17, 79 feet. my dearest friend, i began to doubt whether i was in the way of my duty and a free in gauging public life. my family of children not to have stayed at home minded their education and sought their advancement in life is too late for this chemistry now.

it is cast and i am not far from the end of my life. i've done all for my children than i can and all for the best. what have i not suffered? what have i ever enjoyed? all of my enjoyment have been up on my farm. that might children and grandchildren were all parts. >> december 28, 1798. my dearest friend, the reflections and observations recall what so many painful ideas that i cannot be otherwise and happy when i reflect upon them. in silence i do reflect upon them daily. i wish it were otherwise for them. with respect to what had passed it is intended for the past and has the satisfaction of knowing that you have faithfully served

your generation and at the extent of all private consultations and you do not know whether you would have been happier in private than you have been in public life. the times were such as called you fourth. you consider yourself performing these duties. with this consideration you have not any cause for regret but what remains to us we must expect to have checkered with a good and evil and let us patiently endured the one and rejoice of the other as those who have a better hope and a brighter prospect beyond the grave. stat john and abigail spent the final years of the presidency largely together though john was alone for his first night in the

newly built white house in washington, d.c. his blessing on that house written to get a deal now graces the fireplace of the state dining room. will be for congress to lead the electoral count in february 18th of 01, john knew he had lost the bid for reelection resigned to the end of his long public service he prepared to clean up his final obligations including filling previous judicial vacancies. abigail left washington in mid february. john wait until the morning of thomas jefferson's and on terrorist to leave the inauguration on march 4th. the letters from another were written from the trip north to the last she monitored his political decision. >> the president's house, washington d.c.. november 2nd come 1800. my dearest friend. we arrived here last night or rather yesterday at 1:00 and here we dined and slept.

the building is to be inevitable and now we wish for your company could i shall say nothing of public affairs. i am very glad you can center to come on. it is proper that you and i should retire together and not one before the other. before the end my letter, i pray heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall inhabit it. may none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof. washington, february 16th, 1801. my friend, but the election will be decided this day in favor of mr. jefferson as it is given out by good authority. the burden upon me nominating judges and councils and other

officers in delivering over the furniture the ordinary business at close of the session and in preparing for my journey of 500 miles through the mire is and will be very heavy. my time will be taken up and i pray that you continue to write me. my anxiety for you is a very distressing addition to all of my other laborers. >> philadelphia, february 24, 1801. sir, i shall leave the city had to mauro. i believe there is scarcely a lady who ever came to the drawing room that has visited me. either old or young and very many gentlemen. as to the return of their visit, they cannot expect it. i believe they have made a point of it. who published by a rifle in the papers i know not. but the next morning by 10:00,

as rainy as it was committee began to come and as continued by the throngs of persons. i think them for their attention and politeness though i shall never see them again. my friend i wish you well through the remainder of your political journey. i want to see the list of the judges. [laughter] >> in the years that followed the selection and john and abigail's return to quincy, the atoms' continue to be active intellectually and socially. the exchange no additional letters. there was no need to as they were rarely separated for free than a few days. the retirement years were not always easy. they had no income beyond what the farms produce and they lost most of their savings from a bank failure in 1803. fortunately john quincy and resources to help them maintain

financial security. but that couldn't protect them from personal tragedy. their beloved daughter passed away in 1814 after a lengthy battle with breast cancer. abigail herself provided several illnesses but continued to enjoy life in quincy especially when her children and grandchildren joined her. she and john remained pillars of the community. in the fall of 1818 however she became dangerously six with a tie for fever. in the early afternoon she died. john was with her at the end he wrote of the passing to her son, john quincy. >> quincy, november 10th. 1818. ever affectionate, ever dutiful and deserving son this is passed. but gramm is so terrible to

human nature has nothing left for me. my consolations are more than i can number. the separation cannot be so long as the 20 separation's heretofore. the anguish have not been so great as when you and i embark in 1778. the sympathy and the benevolence of all of the world has been such as i shall not live long enough to describe. i do not have the strength to do justice to individuals. your letter of the second is all and no more than all that i expected. never was a more dutiful son never a more affectionate mother never love to your wife may you never experienced the loss.

so praise your agent and afflictive father. estimate john joined abigail on july 4th, 1826. the 50th anniversary of the american independence they labored so long together and apart to create. [applause]

we are asking which part of the constitution has meaning to you and why. there is a grand prize of $5,000.50 thousand in gold prices. give a five to eight minute documentary to c-span by friday january 20th. last minute details go online to studentcam board. in 1975, ten years after abraham lincoln's assassination, a chicago court committed his widow, mary lincoln to a mental institution. next historian jason emerson discusses his book "the madness

of mary lincoln." his book at the lincoln for them in gettysburg pennsylvania. >> and this is not mary todd lincoln and sanity trial title that jim hickey found in a book from those documents was edited and written by the late general. where did we meet? we met at kildee and at manchester vermont the home of the last home of robert todd lincoln, brian nigh to the historian is here with us which is a strange place to me since it was robert todd lincoln who is responsible for for the short term confinement of mary lincoln at bellevue and the story goes on that jason had told harold holzer and by about these long

lost letters we encouraged him to write about them we recommended to sylvia frank rodriguez and editor at southern illinois university press as we did his forthcoming book on robert todd lincoln and the southern illinois university press credit they published the madness of mary lincoln which we hope all of you will see. so we are very pleased to welcome you, jason, has a first presenter from first time presenter here we expect so much more from new and we will see it, too. welcome, jason emmerson. [applause] >> thank you, frank and her role as well it is a pleasure to be here. in august of 1875 after having

lived at bellevue sanitarium for more than two months by their son robert declared insane by a chicago jury mary lincoln road to her friend it does not appear god is good to have placed me here. i endeavor to read my bible and offer my petitions three times a day. but my heart feels the and falters in prayer. i have worshiped my son and no unpleasant word ever passed between us, yet i cannot understand why i should have been brought out here. these are questions that have been asked for decades and still are asked today. namely was mary lincoln really crazy? and just why did her son have her committed to an essay in san asylum. i address these questions in my book the madness of mary lincoln, and as said, my book was begun based on my discovery of her missing letters from the asylum. i found 25 letters, 20 written

by mary, five by other people about mary written between the years 1872 and 1878, and they were written mostly between mary and her friend am i rabun attwell a chicago abolitionist. but you know, what was exciting of course is historians have been trying to find those letters for eight years or so which made me feel pretty good when i found them. but even before people asked me do i think that mary was really crazy the first question i almost always get it how did you find those letters. we don't like talking about it today. i will get to that in a few minutes. a lot of scared faces. [laughter] to understand the institutional as asia and the is a lot of things you to understand first. there are two main theories

about mary's mental health and mental state. the currently prominent theory was popularized by gene baker in her 1987 biography of mary lincoln called mary todd lincoln a biography, and basically gene baker's thesis is that mary lincoln was a perfectly same woman whose problems were be faulted everyone else that she was the victim of a male chauvinist society and that robert was a horrible coldhearted rapacious bastard of a son who wanted to steal her money and lock her up and get her out of the way because she was so embarrassing. the other theory which was less prominent is that mary was crazy and that robert did what he had to do to protect her. of course that doesn't get a whole lot of play. the closest you'll find to it is probably the insanity final, which frank mentioned by mark kinealy and which cannot in 1976. interestingly, both of those books utilized the same source mainly robert todd lincoln's

personal insanity file which was a complete documentary record of robert having his mother institutionalized. despite this fact that both books use the same evidence they came up with completely into medical conclusions which have led one historian to wonder whether evidence even matters in the matters of historical importance. [laughter] which i think is a salient point. of course i use the insanity finally my book. of course of years the lost letters that i found and i also found a lot of other unknown unpublished letters in my researchers, newspaper articles that have never been used and including some wonderful psychiatric evaluations of mary, written by psychiatrists in the psychiatric academic journals which i was surprised no one ever cited before. and then of course i taught 20 years of subsequent research since the other books. but i also used psychiatric experts because i'm not a doctor

and it was amazing it really opened my eyes to a lot of aspects of her mental illness and even of robert and why he did what he did and the experts pointed out to be a lot of things i did not see, and a lot of things i probably would not have seen without their assistance. i'm happy to see my main expert actually wrote an essay of his professional opinion of the mental illness based on my factors the appendix of my book that's really interesting and i was pleased that she did that for me. the mental illness is not a subject, find simply to her which is another reason it is so fascinating and deals with her and her family of course you have to understand her relationship with her husband as a family and then also dealing with abraham lincoln as president and the white house but also includes aspects of the civil war, the reconstruction period, the gilded age, legal, medical and social history, gender issues, the history of

psychiatry and what i think is one of the most important things is to have to understand robert todd lincoln which i don't think anybody really does. no historian that i have read the entire historiography no one has ever tried to figure out why robert did what he did. they either dismiss it or judge him morally. what a horrible man he had his mother committed but they don't try to understand his motivation is and my book is as much about robert as it is about mary, who he was and why he did what he did and if you have to understand that robert was a quintessential victorian era a gilded age gentlemen who was full of the notions of duty and honor and he believed very strongly in family privacy and he got a lot of that in his schooling in new england he was at harvard for four years and at the academy for one year and he believed then throttled his letters you can see that it was his duty to protect her he was

the last, the oldest son and said many times to his aunts and other people one particular he said i've done my duty as i know and providence must take care of the rest of course you also have to look at his mother's symptoms and what other people were telling him advising him to do because he didn't act alone he consulted with seven medical experts as well as three of his father's closest friends and advisers, david davis and john todd stewart all of whom knew mary lincoln for more than 20 years and john stuart was even a cousin and they all agreed that she wasn't insane which i will get to later. my conclusion is that she did have very serious mental illness. if you look at her life one can easily discerned early manifestations of manic depressive illness or what today we call bipolar disorder. she had symptoms of depression, the illusions of persecutions, poverty of various illness, she suffered hallucinations,

narcissism or set inflated self esteem, insomnia, mood swings, and course the thing we all know is her spending which they call monomaniac. these early manifestations later developed into full-blown psychotic episodes with the symptoms usually magnified and eventually she devolved into threats of physical violence against other people family her son robert from she threatened to murder and whom she said she hired men to murder and she tried to commit suicide. the multiplicity of her psychotic episodes show she did not suffer one psychotic episode in 1875, which led to her institutional the station but in my book i trees her mental illness all the way back to her childhood and you can see that it stands her entire life. of course you cannot judge her by that alone and you cannot understand her if you do not understand also that she lived a very, very tragic and traumatic

life, and we cannot separate that from whatever mental illness she had. of course she suffered the early death of her parents, the death of three of her four sons, the murder of her husband whom she was sitting next to and holding his hand and of the numerous relatives during the war, the estrangement of the family and friends during the white house years of unrelenting criticism of the press, the apathy of the american people after she left the white house, and of course the shiastan of congress who did not want to give her any money or a pension or anything because she treated them badly during the white house and they didn't want to help her out. if you look at all -- if you look at her entire life, you can see that a lot of her psychotic episodes really revolved around some of the main traumatic events. if we just take the major episodes when her son died in 1850 when he was four, which was in the span of six months her son died, her father died and mary was completely destroyed and she wouldn't eat, she wouldn't leave her room, she

wouldn't change her clothes and finally a him lincoln had to plead with hurt you must eat for we must live. and if you go out and she got a little bit better than 1862 willie died in the white house and elizabeth ackley and other people said mary was completely inconceivable and again, she wouldn't leave her room or eat or do anything and finally, abraham lincoln as elizabeth ackley said she took her to the window, went to be as an asylum on the hill and said you must try to control your grief or it will drive you mad and we will have to send you there. and it's interesting that for all of the for having her committed it was abraham lincoln who suggested she might have to be committed and during my research i found three instances where abraham lincoln had an opinion on his wife's mental illness which was exciting because it until there were quite some money which will spoil all of those in the book.

some people including robert fink said mary's troubles really began with the assassination. of course mary -- the was other traumatic event for her. she had another psychotic episode there and then she got a little bit better and then it had died in 1971 and some think it was his death of really unhinged her and that is what i think it really did most of the damage because if you look at her life, abraham lincoln was her anchor to sanity and what she said in a wonderful little 1969 she said mr. lincoln was by all, my lover, my brother, my friend called all to me and he really helped keep her same and was the buffer between her and a society that she needed. of course when he died, she was gone but she latched onto it had been for the next six years the went to europe, she barely let him out of her side and there would be an interesting research topic to look at tad's life.

i don't know how happy it could have been because there is one instance when they were in chicago and robert was going into the city and robert said you have to ask your mother and she wouldn't let them go because she didn't want to let them out of her sight. there are many reasons for that. but it was really after the death in 1871 when mary had nobody left of her children were gone, she alienated family and friends and was the only one left. she had a thriving law practice in chicago and didn't have the time to give her what she needed or what she wanted. then she turned into a homeless wanderer and hired a nurse to go with her but her anchor to sanity was gone. now what is known that by 1873 she was getting fairly constant medical treatment by the doctor for what he called fever and nervous arrangement of the head some of her symptoms are well known to the people she said

that the indians feared was removing and replacing her scalp that he was pulling thone bones out of hershel and wires of her eyes, she heard voices and spoke to people through the walls and floors, and force again, her extravagant spending on items that she didn't use or need, which in my opinion that is the least of her problems but that is the best moment. now, by 1875, mary was wintering in florida and robert was in chicago and mary suddenly had this delusion that robert was on his deathbed and nothing anybody did or said could convince her otherwise and so she went up to chicago, hop on the train and was very surprised to find that he was perfectly healthy. of course after that she really did all of the next few months with all of her symptoms, hallucinations, delusions, various things and that is when robert decided to consult with experts and his father's friends

and try to figure out what to do and this was in the first inkling that he had of this. in 1867 after the scandal he wrote a letter to his future wife in which he basically said people ask me why i don't do something about my mother but it's very hard to deal with someone who is seen on every subject but one. and you can see that he really tried to leave it alone for about eight years by about 1875 he felt that there was nothing more he could do. under the illinois law he had to put her before a jury trial or the declared her in same. and after about ten minutes of the deliberating after three hours of testimony, they declared her insane and she was sent to the sanitarium. the letters i found do much to eliminate her life. of course to talk about her physical ellis of which she suffered quite a lot. her mental health of course is in there. one of the things most fascinating to me is that the letters show exactly how mary got herself released from the

asylum eight months early. in fact in the trunk of material that i found in the very first letter that she ever wrote from the asylum. the letters show that she was not the orchestrator of the release of which is what people tend to think. she got married out of the asylum. she was, as i said a feminist and abolitionist. she would have been an attorney. she passed the bar but the illinois state supreme court declared that she couldn't be an attorney because she was a married woman, not a woman but a married woman, and the united states supreme court upheld that decision. but her husband was an attorney and was on the state legislature but since she couldn't be an attorney, myra brad will begin publishing the chicago legal news which was the most influential and highly circulated legal newsletter in america. she was one of mary lincoln's friends and people think that because she helped mary that she

got all started but really these letters the life of show that it was mary aplington who began her quest for freedom and orchestrated everything and that myra was her accomplice however willing and able she may have been but it was mary lincoln who knew to harness the power of the press to make it seem that she was being imprisoned against her will and that was horrible plight that she was suffering. ..

it just shows she was perfectly for. i think it shows that the asylum actually converse. then of course a lot of the stressors in her life for god. she called robert dickey made. the press is not after all the time. she was kind of away from congress. she still writing for them to get pension. so a lot of the stressors are gone, but that does not mean her symptoms were gone. some of the letters that survive you can see still there. a lot of rather symptoms were still there as well. as i said, many historians have tried for about 80 years. and the 1930s come historian debbie at a evidence is also a doubt what a wonderful book called mrs. abraham lincoln of her personality and influence him again.

he tried to find the letters and his conclusions is that it's not the last of the letters. in the 1950s, she declared that the letters had vanished. in the 1970s, then that and veteran justin turner wrote mary lincoln inside life and letters also try. they could not find the letters and they declared that robert lincoln must have destroyed them because they were so damning to him. of course he strides have been looking for the letters because we know they are out there and went to see the days they, but really i think people want to see them because they really think there's some great details in there and they showed that mary really was saying. it was a kangaroo court and he was an aberration as bastardy didn't deserve linking. what was really interesting is the letters in fact do not show that at all. they showed that as a theory that was going on.

but that is not really what happened. of course when i was -- probably the most interesting letter of that people will find most interesting is when the area's most famous letters she wrote to robert wright after she got out of the asylum, writing and coming to crane his see free saying you tried your game frog rethought en masse. it's a horrible, heartbreaking letter that a mother would write to her son. and the track i found a letter that barrier to bradwell one day before the letter to robert. it's almost a dresser or so for that letter and its heart raking in victory all an anger against roberts. she calls them all sorts of names. at the end of the letters she not only call us names, that tries to enlist there are bradwell to get revenge on robert and publish stories and lies about him in the newspaper, which did not happen. but it surprised me that very tried to do that.

now, i found the letters -- sigh of relief, yes. he's going to talk about it. when i found the letters in 2005, i was very doing research for my upcoming biography of robert todd lincoln and i went there on a cold, dreary, rainy bramante in march. it was close to that time. it was open to visitors. i met with the curator bragg and 90 to take me up to the house. so robert lincoln study is intact in the city has a wonderful wall. in the study has a wonderful wall. in the study has a wonderful wall. robert notes with archival boxes in all of his papers were in there. so boring to me up. he set me up on robert lincoln's dining room table with a big portion of robert overlooking me in a very cold folding metal chair. he wasn't even out of the house. he showed the roberts study and said okay, go ahead. it was amazing.

many boxes had inches of dust on them, no fingerprints at all. i don't think in historian at in their other than bring the curator since the 1970s. so it was amazing to go through these letters that no one had ever really seen. i came across a letter written by robert's attorney, frank towers to catherine hill, robert's cousin and the one and only sole authorized biographer of mary lincoln. in the letter said basically this is lincoln had a surprise today. mrs. martin prichard, granddaughter of bradwell came to say that she on 35 letters written by mary lincoln and she had written a book about it and she had a publishing contract and was just calling it as the courtesy to let us know it's going to be publish skull which was amazing. of course i like all lincoln scholars note the missing letters throughout aircon assignee with this knew what this is about. i found another letter by frank

towers saying mrs. lincoln would love to meet you in washington. maybe we can help you with your boat. but he found later as mary lincoln did not try to help her. she tried to stop her come which he eventually did. so i photocopied those two letters and brought them home. i set them aside for a while and they pick them up again. and researching i realize those letters had never been quoted or mentioned anywhere in any of the lincoln historiography. no one even knew they existed. so i decided to take a little deeper. i didn't ever think an archived various and there's nothing about think in an her missing letters. so i decided to check on bradwell. and it took me a few months and i read a book called by her bradwell, america's first woman lawyer. and i found the bradwell's last living relative, mr. james gordon who lived in wisconsin at the time. he was a very nice man and he had a folder full of legal

document, which discussed the sale of the letters, the unpublished manuscript in the quashing of the publishing contract between minor prichard and mary lincoln. and he was very nice. he let me have copies all of that stuff. once i realized it is a legal matter it is better to track and roberts attorneys because he does seem attorney for 20 or 30 years. after a lot of archival research in google searches, telephone calls to complete strangers who probably thought i was crazy, i finally tracked down freddie towers and the son of robert's attorney. he was a really nice man at a sedate writing a biography. restarted for 10 or 15 minutes. it was great. as let's say well, the reason i called was -- you said you know, we just found in the attic daddy's old trunk from the

lincolns. i'm in there there's some letters that mary wrote when she was in the asylum. do you think they're worth anything? i said that's why i was calling you. i was -- it was amazing. a moment every historian dreamed of. mr. towers is a great guy. i said i'm writing about it. you think i can look at that? sure. you know, he had two sisters and nato summit truck. it had been in their attic for 40 years and they they were moving, which is how they found it. and he was one week before he found them. i kahnawake center he's been sorry don't have anything college as i amazing to me. said he wanted to consult his two sisters because they were in the process. they didn't have to do with all. they were assured they should keep it, sell it, donate it to museum. they're even thinking about destroying it because they knew robert lincoln had destroyed some family papers and the letters. everything showed that kerry harper lincoln destroyed a lot

of things. and so, mr. towers concerted with his sisters and they were not quite so quick to let me see them. so i sent them every article i've ever read. i just finished a huge article about the insanity case, which was good for me. if i met them in person i would've gotten down on my knees and said please, let me look at the letters. so finally they got is probably the best person to read the book a miss is that we look at everything and i went to their house in new york city. it was actually in silver spring maryland, but the sister had in new york city. it was an amazing moment. as a steamer trunk full of thousand -- hundreds of lincoln family documents, among which were very slightest, the unpublished book. it was very interesting book. so you know, i got to do that.

as i said, it was every historian stream. as i was going to the trunk and the letters and doing my other research, a lot of my opinion and positions about merrymaking changed. i am an objectivist in history -- i believe objectivism is i believe you find facts and pilot the other to to the conclusion that leads you to come and not the other way around. you don't start with the conclusion of both around it. but we all have opinions. when i started the book, i never thought barry was crazy and i still don't. but it was that maybe she was kind over the emotional woman who was just traumatized by the assassination and she just never recovered from that. but the more that i read and of course reading her letters and then do another research, you know, the more i realize she had very serious mental illness. there was a lot of things i found that it never been published.

a couple things that struck me was mary had a horrible, horrible fear of fire and dilution that things were on fire and ice because of the great chicago fire of 1871. she was in chicago during that time. robert, seven doctors robert consulted all agreed and said anyone that has a dilution like that could at any minute think that the renaissance fire and jump out of a window. i mean, to me that is enough to have his mother committed just for her own safety. the reporter visited mary and me sanitarium and the article is fascinating. i can't recall seeing it published anywhere either. the reporter is talking about how merrily, sit at the table for hours and have conversations with president and his cabinet. for she was said at the table and have conversations with her dead son. i mean, serious hallucinations she was having. there were many other things, too. it really struck me and changed my mind on things.

but the one thing they did not change from the israelis that you lincoln as a person who deserved a lot of sympathy and not a little bit of pity. on top of her innate mental illness, she had this horribly tragic and hermetic life. i don't think you can necessarily blame her for a lot of things she did when you really understand what she went through. the likewise, i don't see simply robert lincoln for what he did. if you try to understand the time his f10, his whole belief is that it taurean gentlemen, the sufficiency consulted, friends of lincoln he consulted, you really can't blame him for acted the way he thought was best for protecting himself from other people. unfortunately this has been a great road bike and understanding the institutionalization episode is people think that if you are defending are trying to understand either robert or

married that that means you're automatically vilify and the other one. it's really developed in recent years in my opinion to this he said she said argument. if you try to stay mary had on us, people attack you for being misogynist or whatever and vice versa with defending robert. but i think that if you try to really understand the events in the context, you can really see that to defend one or the other and understand it's not to defile the other one. you need to objectively look at this event in all the facts surrounding that. i think only then can we truly understand what happened to mary and why. thank you. [applause] >> questions?

yes, please go to the microphone. and you can line up. after all, we are talking about mary lincoln now. >> i have a question about the history of psychiatry. he said you address that in the book. we have terminology, you know, the whole history first begins with freud. did they know more than that we give credit for the terminology has just changed? >> i was kind of expect dean, you know, one flew over the cuckoo's nest was some kind of medieval thing. but i read a lot of issues but american insanity. that is back in the 1860s and then of course current books and articles on the history of medicine, articles in medical

journals today. they did understand quite a bit. mary had the best treatment possible. from what i understand that then they restate hospitals that were kind of one flew over the cuckoo's nest. there were people in there and they've been there. before that, most people who had mental troubles were put in prison actually before they try to diagnose and understanding cure it or they would be put sometimes in the house until her sometimes they be kept at home and maybe even locked in the basement. barry was treated with moral therapy, which was the current theory of time, which was a good diet, a lot of rest, eating, walking, distract them a mind like gardening or talking in very, very little medication if any at all. there's no evidence that mary took education while she was there. it's very interesting to see. of course there were things they did not understand. but they get thought was interesting is if someone disheveled in their test, they

didn't brush the hair that they were insane. seems a little simplistic to me. they did hint that women were more prone to insanity and then. but it was surprisingly -- i don't know if modern is the right term. i thought it would be much more misogynist or a much more against women than it actually seemed to me to be. of course as i said i'm not a medical expert for my research. it does seem they're about to trying to cure people. >> thank you, only. >> see how many women hot tub when you ask her questions. maybe you could speak to this a little bit. it's been sometime since i read about mary lincoln. but these days we frequently encounter overmedication. and i maybe wrong on on this, but i'll run time back in the

springfield days, i think there is a record in their pharmacy that opium was a commonly prescribed cure for migraines to which mary was subject. some of the side effects were some of these things which you discuss, hallucinations and so forth. would you address this whole topic of medication? maybe there's someone medical in the audience who is also the database. thank you. >> well, i've looked at george store records in a ticket opm, that none in very great amount that all that would suggest anything other than normal household use. and all my research i was surprised to find i only found two actual primary mentions of mary taking drugs at all. one was mary's sister. she was trying to excuse -- mary told me she was taking too much

coral in florida and that's why she got agitated. a fairly recent letter to unaided to the presidential library in which mary requested for more pills because she darty taken the fight he gave her. she doesn't say what they were. chloral hydrate and things like that weren't usually diagnosed, so i couldn't figure out what she was talking about. if there is lincoln took medication, i'm sure she did, but you know, there's no evidence i could find that she took huge amounts, she was the date to do it. i did a lot of research on specific medication. and primaries mental systems, the most common medication was chloral hydrate laud them for opm are any kind of mixture of the three. and there is a lot in the journal of american insanity, a lot of articles about those drugs. were they a tape give? over their effects? what were their benefits?

is really interesting that chloral hydrate, the most common in people say merry took was not addictive. at all. but you know, when she was in the asylum, there is a daybook of every day she was there. it never mentions they gave her medication, that she ask her medication, that she suffered from a straw for medication. nothing at all about medication. before she was in the asylum, her dirt is a homeopathic surgeon -- homeopathic doctor, which believes in extreme dilution, 99% water. even if she was taken on a lot of medication, it was most likely deluded. and all of my research, i've done practically nothing about mary taking medication, which really surprised me. and i address it the book, but i don't think that had anything to do with governmental symptoms. >> yes, your talk makes this

question. do you know, and if so will you share with us but the family did the con tents at the track? >> absolutely. the chunk is on now and the library of congress and the manuscripts division. you cannot read it if you like. i actually had to verify something a few months ago and it was really exciting to see all catalog and folders since it turned think i saw this. [laughter] >> my name is mark zimmerman and on my florida. and thoughtfulness is always something that's interested me. i'm not a psychiatrist, but a quick story about manic depression. my question is how is job nesbitt and anything it was, she was diagnosed as manic depressive. as of this sinks come i do very close colleague of night, just psychiatrist to my in the summer

of 2006 anopheles medications can intro from florida to new york and was arrested for attempted murder and kidnapping. and this is a gentleman who is a wonderful, caring, loving individual. it is two months ago he got out of rakers. so you can see that manic depression is a significant illness, a diagnosis if it is untreated can cause some major problems in individual lives. i'm wondering if indeed part of the question was answered and you're not sure what medication she receives if any. took a very diagnosis and with it manic-depression back then? >> he did not have to diagnosis back then. in the daybook, the very first entry said mrs. flint can admit it today -- i think it just said mental trouble beginning with the assassination of her has

been gotten worse over the past four months. but you know, as i said it was fever and nervous arrangement of the head. dr. patterson, her physician -- i can't give any specific term he ever used other than mental illness. one thing that was interesting as you are talking about the ups and downs of manic depressive, you know, i found going back to mary's childhood can can her cousin said when mary was a child she was much like an april day, sending oliver one minute in the next crime is so her heart would break. and springfield headbangers or both and branding his bid it was commonly note that mary was either the kerry or the seller. my favorite was stoddard, one of lincoln's secretary's daughter wrote the best thing where he said i just cannot understand how a woman who was so kind of a generous and so warm and nothing can the next minute be so

vicious and sofa and didn't so mean. it was really quite an interesting quote to see that. it was obvious to people. her relation, her depression. but that was interesting. i could not find anything. dr. burris in the appendix does an interesting job of tracing more history and turned in for a in things like that. >> very good. yes, sir. >> we now understand there may be a strong genetic component to many mental illnesses. what do we know about history of suicide or mental on this and mary todd lincoln's family? >> there was a lot actually. michael burlingame who is coming up at the biography of abraham lincoln found any shared with me i think 14 members of the todd family are commanded to asylums. 12 of them died there. a number committed suicide.

a few types who just got to be be a little crazy. and so there is a lot. even robert lincoln. it's really interesting, he certainly has a lot of anxiety as his mother did and that's her father, robert todd had a lot of anxiety. robert todd lincoln suffered, seem to be bouts of depression. it did not affect him or incapacitate him like his mother. i can't say why. and of course he also had a lot of physical ailments like his mother did. he like his mother was a bit of a hypochondriac actually. there's quite an extensive family history. >> if i understand correctly, you said that she consulted some psychiatrists and they lead you to believe it might be bipolar disorder. was very differential diagnosis also giving? >> actually no.

he looked at it. it was interesting he saw the article in american heritage and issa psychiatrist in l.a. and he deals with kind of normal people who have minor problems and he's also had a psychiatric ward who deals with really, really insane people. it is interesting he told me had a case almost identical. a woman her same age at the same symptoms and her son had her committed. she was committed for a few weeks. they put on medication and that she was better. she admitted she was better. she admitted that medication that helped her and yet she never forgave her son for having her committed, even though she knew that it helped her. you know, he did his own thing. i didn't and pinch my opinions on him and he came back and thought it was bipolar. the other two i consulted with eugene taylor at harvard.

he does a lot with spiritualism and he hopes to tap are. and professor mary washington university in fredericksburg where he lived all say with some of the history aspects. but you know, they all thought it was bipolar. in my book i do a little historiography of what physicians have thought about barry's case. i found it really interesting. i found two great articles written by professionals. one in the 1940s by -- his name just left me. he actually is considered the father of modern psychiatric diagnosing criminals and he helped catch the boston strangler actually. his name is saluted me right now. he's written great books in a newspaper he said she had chronic headaches. that was his diagnosis. which i don't know what that's supposed. in the 1960s, a man named john suarez published a paper in the

journal of the american psychiatric association. and he said that mary lincoln was clearly mentally troubled with a danger to herself and others. and i today, meaning 1966, any jury or doctor in america would have her committed. that is an interesting paper as well. he said -- i don't remember if he put a name and what he thought, but he listed all of her symptoms. and of course in 1999, saltman and norbert hirschhorn are both doctors come about from the physiological viewpoint is that mary suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder, which is the kind of center in 1865. they didn't really opine on her mental state. >> thank you very much. any other questions for jason? thank you very much. excellent.

[applause] the mac we need to eliminate these entitlement programs. we need to cap them, cut them come to cap them, send them to the states, remove federal oversight and let the states have flexibility to deliver these programs. >> we have brought to the forefront. others have took only talked about it. they get in office and do nothing about it. right now it is this liberty movement, which is seen as a teacher at a movement in individual liberty movement saying we've had enough of sending their kids to 90s around the world to be the police. it's time to bring them home.

[inaudible conversations] >> the endorsement from texas? >> we feel good about that. the conservatives are coalescing around our campaign and that will be good for us as we go forward. >> more video from the campaign trail at c-span.org/campaign 2012. >> a story and gerard gawalt talks about his book, "my dear

president," letters between president cenobites. this is an hour. >> welcome, everyone. thank you for joining us this evening. we're so fortunate to have somebody. please spoke on gerard gawalt can the curator of presidential papers in the library of congress. he has a lot of things to tell. he's written a book called "my dear president." without further ado, welcome. [applause] >> well, thank you. when i was covering up, i couldn't spell to words, and this is the end cincinnati because they were too many double letters and i could never get them straightened out. but fortunately found that today you can actually get the cincinnati without knowing how to spell it.

so i felt good about that. first of all, i want to thank joseph for hosting this event. i want to thank my two editors, laura ross and iris newsom for correct the many of my mistakes and i want to thank my daughter, in for coming up with the idea for the companion book is called first daughters. and i want to thank my wife for embarking on one last book. authors are late politicians. they last spoke -- their next book is always the last book, but it never is. the key to this book is that the passion and intensity as spouses is the key to understanding presidents and their first

ladies and their personal and public life. all but one of the president said the united states had been married and their spouses play critical roles in their lives. many of these men would not have achieved the presidency or even aspire to it had it not been for their spouses. we undertook this book is a companion to first daughters. as they were on it, it took on a life of its time because the content and intensity of the letters themselves. i think is a look at some of them, you'll see that although there is public dissidents in many of these letters, the private assertiveness that the spouses in particular is particularly interesting. tonight think as time goes on,

the dissidents of lies such as america washington, dolly madison, lucretia garfield gave way to the spouses, such as pharaoh pope and helen taft and virtually all of the presidential wives in the last 50 years who now pretty much have taken an equal share in their presidential run. now, i want to read a couple of letters as we go along so you can see how this change in the dissidents that the people. this is a letter that dolly madison wrote to her husband, james when he was secretary of state. and dolly madison was in philadelphia recovering from an injury to her knee. at this time, spouses wives were

not considered to be a fact that in the administration as they are now. but i want you to listen to this part of the letter and tell me what she's saying about what dolly is saying that she writes this letter. i wish he would insult me with some information, respect in the world with bated in disagreement with england as it is such an unexpected year that i am at a loss what to surmise. you know i am not much of a politician, but i am extremely anxious to hear this piracy may think proper what is going forward on this subject. i believe you would not desire the active partisans such as her neighbor, mrs. al, nor will they be the slightest danger while she is conscious of her want to

talents and her dissidents and expressing her opinions, always imperfectly understood by her sex. so dolly madison is the same age the role of the good spouse. now, compare that to abigail adams letter, written even before this time. abigail is writing to her has been, john adam's in 1776, before the declaration of independence is past. and abigail is one of those people who is very free with advice to both her has been into anybody else who would listen. certainly not a dissident wife. she writes to her has been john,

a lot to hear the issue have declared an end tendency. and by the way, and the new code of laws, which i suppose it will be necessary for you tonight, i desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous than favorable to them stay in your own ancestors. do not put that unlimited power into the hands of the has-beens. remember, all men would retiming says they could. particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation. that's your sex are naturally tyrannical as a truth so thoroughly established as to admit no dispute. such a view of his wish to be happy unwillingly give up the harsh title of master for the

bartender and endearing one as friend. why then not put it out of the power of the vicious and lawless to use this with cruelty and indignity and impunity. then it sends an all ages, accord those customs, which triggers only as baffled scum i regard as as being placed by providence under your protection and an imitation of the supreme beings make use of that power, only for our happiness. so, abigail is telling john very much what is on her mind. now, many of these presidents would not have been there had it not been for their spouses. sir polk, mary link in, helen

taft, allen nervous about, rosalind carter, probably nancy reagan. these are all people who very much pushed their spouses into the limelight. sir polk told her husband before she would marry him that he had to be alike did to the state senate of tennessee because she was going to see she very much wanted a political career. and she was so much a part of his administration that his opponents called her the president trusts. and she was very astute in her political advice. here is a letter that she wrote to her husband, james polk. this is in 1844, when he wants

the opportunity to become president. and she writes, dear husband, the whigs i am told are in good deal of concern since the death of their president. that's william henry harrison. not matter what tyler will do, et cetera, et cetera. according judgment, the same powers will control client. the banner is still harping on your two addresses. and there articles now a word to you what they never did he for, that she would be able, talented and great leader in the works are in danger of another defeat. i am told that they have become here very uneasy, fearing there will be a democratic legislature. they say in the articles, you are hereby a leaping dangerous foe.

so i think it will level artillery against you. there are more respectful toward do anywhere in former times. they make no new charges them out they have said does not amount to much in my judgment. this area is really giving james some instructions on what is likely to happen. now, there is a vocal person, helen taft, who was even more forceful in what she wanted her husband to do. william howard taft wanted nothing more than to become a supreme court justice. but helen taft didn't want to have any part of the. she made him turn down two offers to go on the supreme court became president. there is a nice lettering here that i'm going to read part of

tu, and that she to her husband, william, when he was seeking the nomination for the presidency. it has to do with the meeting she had with theodore roosevelt, who was then president of the united states. and she writes to her has been, william taft, about the meeting she had in the white house. and she says after lunch, the president, theodore roosevelt, said he wanted to talk to me and share me off to sit down in the window. as usual, it was about you but i'm a new tact. he seems to have think i am consumed with and ignored in its ambition to be president and that he must constantly warn me that you may never get there. and he now says that while you are his first choice, that in case you are not crowded to the

powers that be, it may become necessary for him to support someone else like you for instance should he live in new york. i felt like saying dmu, support who you want for all i care. but suffice it to say, i did not. so despite her outspoken minister has been, william howard taft was very careful not to offend teddy roosevelt, who had a great deal that is going to succeed him as president. now, when venus other people also wanted their has-beens very much to be president, edith will send virtually acted as president after wilson had his stroke. you may recall that when woodrow

wilson was canned evening for the treaty of peace after the war that was going to end all wars, he suffered a massive stroke and was in bed for almost a year. edith wilson virtually ran the white house. in fact she did good she would lead anyone to see him. she would take messages from cabinet on her since she was so into the bedroom where -- where her husband was and then she was come out and say, the president wants you to do this. when in actuality, the only one who is deciding this edith wilson. not best truman and lady johnson actually ran their has-beens congressional or senate arial offices before they became

president. and harry truman responded to criticism with running his office by saying that not only was she good, but she was cheap and you didn't have to pay her. even when he became president, best truman continued to add it all with his speeches. and you can be sure that she was giving him advice. of course, eleanor roosevelt had her agendas and rosalind carter is not the first presidential wife to want to sit in on cabinet meetings. she actually did. but edith roosevelt, teddy roosevelt's wife also volunteered to sit in on cabinet

meetings. so as you can see, the wise they think throughout this, played a very strong role in the presidency. the other thing that comes through in these letters very matches the personal passion and intensity. despite the many occasions of unfaithfulness, dare i at least three known instances, where presidents had illegitimate children. these couples still had very solid relationships based on love and in many cases based on ambition. you can see this same issue in blogging and lost lost in my letters. virtually all of them were separated for long periods of time. i like to say you don't get to be president by trial in the lower 40. these people were, lot.

and so, these letters become the replacement for president. there are many letters in here that i think are very interesting. i think i have been surprised in talking to people's been a number of call-in shows that people thought these letters were too intimate to be published. but i'm going to read some of them to you anyway. there actually are some letters that i decided not to include in the book because they or i think a little too steamy for this kind of boat. this was supposed to be a nice friendly family type boat. so i did leave some of the letters out. but this is a nice letter that theodore roosevelt wrote to alice leahy, who he was engaged

to. i'm a slave first wife. and he writes to her just a few days before her wedding. he's 22 and she's made team. he writes, many tourists love, you are too good to write me so often when you have so much to do. i hope that you are not all tired out with were. but at any rate, you will have two weeks complete rest at oyster bay. and then you shall do just as you please and everything. they say that before the wedding. my darling, i do so hope and pray i can make you happy. i shall try very hard to be a sound selfish and sunny tempered as you are and i shall save you from every care i can. my own true love, you have eaten a happiness almost too great and i feel i can do so little for

you in return. i worship you so that it seems almost desecration to touchier. and yet, when i am with you, i can hardly let you a moment out of my arms. my purest green, no man was worthy of your love is, but i shall try very hard to deserve it, at least in part. good vibe i am sorry. now, there is another letter here from a man who is not normally can figure it a great romantic ether and that would be harry truman. this is a letter that hairy charming virtuous wife, best truman, when he was in military training camp at fort leavenworth and his wife had come to visit and. after she left, he wrote to her, teargas, i wanted to go home with you so badly last night i

could hardly stand it. she just looked as if you needed a shoulder to put your head on. and i of course acted like a man usually does. i am sure you didn't feel a bit good and that i'm saying did not make you any better. well, it won't be but a couple of days more. i bet you'll feel fine. the interesting thing here is i don't have the content of the letter, but the fact that harry truman thought his wife had saugerties when it turned out she was pregnant with her late daughter, margaret, so her illness didn't go away when he got home in a few days. but that was their only child they had and i'm sure they were very happy to have it. i'd like to reach are a part of

another letter that is also woodrow wilson to his first wife, alan wilson. woodrow wilson wrote the most intimate letters of any of the president. in fact, he encouraged his first wife and second wife to write she had in detail, expressing everything they were thinking and he did, too. he wrote this letter to his wife, helen. she was in georgia visiting her family. and he writes, when i come, how many things of all sorts have been putting off till that sweet time, principally lovemaking. you may not be based on the character of contents of some of my letters, that such a postponement has been very evident in this correspondence. but it has been very evident to

me, almost in coach didn't unless i can say them to my lips and interpret them with my eye. not to know that sweet lovemaking in which there are no words spoken at all. i am coming and then we'll see if it isn't better. and then the letter goes on. as i said, which relates to write in great detail. when he was courting his second wife, they would spend the evening together and then they would both go home and write to each other and describe in great detail what they had done in the previous several hours. those are the letters that are not in this book. there is a letter here that has to do with a person in this part of the world, james garfield.

some of you probably know james and lucretia garfield had a rather rocky relationship because james garfield believed in what he called romantic relationships. what we would call it nowadays i guess open marriage for free love. honor the other other or maybe both. but garfield as they said had many times romantic relationships other than his fiat faith or his wife. and this is a letter that lucretia wrote to james garfield before they were married. and she is writing to him because he has encouraged her. i was the other kind of strange

thing. he would encourage his wife to become fast friends with the woman that he was having his romantic relationship with. so, she knew about the woman, rebecca satellite. so she writes to him, i blame you for not being. for whatever you may have time, i believe that our faithfulness and gushing affection of your warm and impulsive nature to go out in all its fullness towards another than the one to whom you have pledged your all. all innocently as it was done, i cannot mean you. and could the effect with all the past of our intimacy might have over you be blotted out. i would say to you this hour, go and marry rebecca and hereafter, trust your heart so far.

rebecca is a good and noble grow in many aspects from a superior. but she loves you know better. if however you love her better, she can satisfy the wants of your nature better and more than all, if you can with her become a good and noble man in spite of all the past, pronounce upon your love his sister's blessing. you told me to adjust and prompted you another couriers. do you feel yourself an honorable, generous man you must take me alone to your heart. what feeling did take whatever it might. i have thought it would never allow that, that i would never be your wife and less every feeling of your heart seconded and decisions of recent. perhaps i asked too much, but

james, to be an unloved wife, heavens i could not endure it. the letter goes on. they did get married and unfortunately for lucretia, she also had to endure james' scowling with other romantic relationships. however, they did stay married and i think one of the interesting things about their marriage's was after james was assassinated, his wife, lucretia really send forth as a person. there may be a connection between these two things. and she lived a long and happy life, had a host in ohio and one in california and lived very well and enjoyed herself to no

end and undoubtedly didn't have to worry about james is relationships and friendships. now, if these people were joined by both love and ambition, but many of the wives were actually opposed to their has-beens political ventures and virtually all the president had some point, started with washing and working your way down to william clinton, promised a ride since sometime that they would not leave home the next time politics called, which of course never proved to be true. it's kind of like the authors who always say this is my last book and it never is. but the president's wrote and

promised their wives often that they would pass up some part of their careers. this is a letter to george washington wrote to his wife, dolly. it's the classic letter of it has been either going off in this case to war were to send political campaign. sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between military campaign and political campaigns. but george is writing in june of 1775. and he writes, my dearest and i think it's interesting just to notice the opening of the letter because we tend to think of washington as this very stiff, formal person. and very view of his letters have survived because after he dies, martha washington burned

virtually every letter she could get her hands on. the only ones that survived are the ones that she overlooked. this being one of them that it's tough to decide it to a friend of george washington had purchased. this is how well from philadelphia. anyway, he writes to her, my dearest, i am now sit down to write you on a subject which fills me with inexpressible could turn. this concern is greatly aggravated and increased when i reflect upon the uneasiness i know that it will give you. it has been determined that congress that the whole primary race for the defense of the american cause shall be put under my care and that it is necessary for me to proceed immediately to boston to take upon me to come the end of it.

you may believe me, my dear patsy when i assure you in the most solemn manner but so far from seeking this appointment, i have used every in denver in my power to avoid it. not only from my unwillingness to part with you in the family, that from a consciousness of it being a trust to create for my capacity and that i should enjoy them more real happiness and solicit and one that puts you at home than i ever had the most distant prospect of reaping abroad is my state were to be seven times seven years. i think church washington probably gave that speech to his wife every time he left home. first to be commander-in-chief and the two had the constitutional convention. then to be president. then to go back as commander of

the army yet again. it is a statement that many people have made. ann rutherford behaves, and other local person wrote in his diary that public men seldom keep their promises to retire to private life. benjamin harrison, and other ohio resident promised his wife, caroline, that no object of ambition arcane cadaver leads me away from the side of my dear wife and children. he wrote that when he was 32. of course he later became president. so i imagine that some point he did leave his place site. edith roosevelt, who is teddy roosevelt's second wife even drafted a letter for teddy roosevelt, renouncing the offer

of the vice presidency in 1800 to serve with william mckinley. and of course william mckinley was soon assassinated and teddy roosevelt became at that point the youngest man ever to become president. ..

the first time he married rachel jackson, it turned out that her first husband had an idea, so after her husband died in necessitated a remarriage by andrew and rachel. but anyway, andrew wrote to her in 1796 it is with the greatest pleasure i sit down to write you though i am absent my heart rests with you with what hopes on view the future period i

should be restored to your arms there to spend my days in domestic sweetness with you the companion of my life never to be separated from you again during this transitory in fluctuating life. i mean to retire from the business of public life and spend my time with you alone in ste. retirement which is my only ambition and ultimate wish. between 1796 and 1830, he was a u.s. senator three times lead american army into the war and was elected president, so you can see how well he kept his promise always to stay by his wife's side.

unfortunately for rachel she died just after he was elected president so that she actually never did get to spend any time in the white house. but i think it's important to note that these people did pursue this career together, and i think that before there were current rock stars and movie stars and a celebrity athletes first families with a national celebrities come and the first lady from martha washington and forward were in the spotlight of fame and virtually all of them complained they couldn't pursue their private life because they were living in as you like atmosphere and most of these people were first lady and president before there was the

cocoon of the secret service to protect them and lucretia garfield wrote an interesting letter that i'm going to read part of here because after james was elected president, she decided that there were not any tailors in ohio that could properly outfitted her for the white house she went to new york to buy a new wardrobe and had to go incognito because she was afraid that people in ohio would find out that she wasn't buying her clothes from the local merchant that she was going off to new york. so she writes this letter back to james garfield and says no word from home yet. yesterday we made effective by

making some decisions final in regard to the two suits and released. the prices seem extravagant and have made large inroad into the amount you sent. mr. reed told me we had not been betrayed yet and shall not unless mrs. sheldon gets to address me as mrs. greenfield as some unguarded moment. the carriage is at the door again so i must be excused for the delightful work again. james writes back to her and says your first letter came this morning and filled the house with gladness. a must have required garrey skill -- great skill to write in new york with prominent friends that it escaped the notice. you are developing fine

diplomatic qualities. the president arrives in the public and in the press jousted back to work throughout the history of the country. both wilson and harry truman threatened different parts to ask reporters what to step outside over things they had written about their stalls or children and teddy roosevelt who was particularly doubted by the fact that his oldest daughter alice love nothing better than to appear in the press in any way she could and was not a particularly diplomatic person was forever causing teddy

roosevelt bad press and wrote to a publisher saying that he was going to try to keep his daughter and his wife at home to minimize unwanted publicity. now of course we have public relations people out advertising where the president and their spouse is going to become and despite all of the protests and the spin, they wouldn't be anyplace without the publicity that they get. certainly they don't want to minimize it even if they want to control its. i think that it's also interesting to note that in putting this book together i found it very hard to find the letters of the lives of other than of the president's. i think for one reason family

members seem to have a particular affection for their mother's letters, not that i blame them, but they are particularly fond of keeping the letters even after the letters of their husbands are in the presidential pyramids or libraries, whichever you choose. i tend to think of them as presidential pyramids. but many of the wives of -- the letters of the wives are not there. flexible, bess truman, her letters are still with her daughter margaret, mamie eisenhower letters are still basically with her son. david, patrician axson's letters are still with their daughters, and a lot of eleanor roosevelt's letters are still with her family. now, of their letters for

example jackie kennedy i had acquired two letters from jackie kennedy, john kennedy but when i wrote to the daughter of carol wind to get permission it turned all that jackie kennedy had put in her will a wish that none of her letters between she and john be published. so i had to pull those letters out of test of the book. they were interesting letters but unfortunately, we felt it best to honor the wishes of the person who wrote them. many of the lives actually tried to destroy all their letters. sometimes the husband did, too. it's hard to tell whether they did this because the fall of the letters were to personal or they were mad at their husbands or what was going on, but dolley

madison asked her nieces to destroy all of her letters to james madison. fortunately her niece's transcribed her letters before they burnt the originals. so we have the copies of the letters but not the originals. they did fulfill the technical wish to destroy the actual letters but not the content. and as i said, martha washington burned all of her husband's letters to hers and hers to him and it's hard to tell exactly why she did this. i think partly because she thought they were very personal and also i think after she read washington's will she may have been a little irritated with him because george washington freed

up all of his sleeves on the death of his wife dolly, and not being very unintelligent person i think what we perceived that if she didn't do something quickly somebody might speed up her death a little bit in order to gain their freedom. so she immediately freed at all of this slaves owned by george washington. washington was the only presidential slave owner who actually did free the slaves and that provides funds for them. but i wonder whether martha was just a little bit irritated by the way that the quest was made. i think that one thing in general it's safe to say that in

the future is going to be extremely difficult to do this kind of book because after 1960 there were very few letters between presidents and their and why it costs and a lot of telephone conversations. there are i presume e-mails out there somewhere, but for the most part, the letters that we have even of the president's who became president after 1960 are letters that were written when they were younger, and the last people to really i think right letters as they got older were the reagan's. and they wrote letters on till they got to the white house but they pretty much stopped, too. i think that two things have

happened. not only is there a great deal of speed and communication, but the fact that there's also speedy transportation so that husbands and wives, president and first lady's are not separated very much. and so there are just not a lot of letters available for us to use. i think that before i asked for questions i think i'd like to read a few more letters. not very many because i see that we are and as usual preamble on through my time, but there's one that i particularly like because it kind of in bodies the kind of teddy roosevelt macho man

roughrider type of letter and this is a letter that teddy roosevelt wrote after he was shot by an attempted assassination, and he wrote this letter -- i can't find the page right now. i have it now afterlife early in paris myself by not being able to find it in my own book. one of the trouble with having 184 letters is that it's difficult to remember on which page every letter is. malae have eight. theodore roosevelt wrote this

letter to his wife edith roosevelt. as i said, he was a few feet, trying to run for president again on the party and was shot by amana mo waukee wisconsin, and not only did he finished delivering his speech which was an hour and a half, he then finally made his way to the emergency room and wrote this letter to his wife and an excellent shape the moon is a trivial one. i think they will find that it merely glanced on the ridge and went somewhere into a cavity of the body. it certainly didn't touch a long and isn't a particle more serious than one of the injuries any of them used to be continually having to read and at the emergency hospital at the

moment anticipate going right on with my engagements. my voice seems to be in good shape. best left to ethel. that's his daughter. i think that this is a good letter to end on because it's kind of a high note for the president and embodies what we like to think of our presidents as courageous and forthright and honest, and i think if you read the letters in this book you will find for the most part the spouses are in their letters to each other honest and forthright even if they don't always see eye to eye. if you have any questions i would be happy to answer them. >> in your knowledge do you know anything about the correspondence between the

president warren harding and his wife florence? >> yes i do. >> anderson and from reading about them she is overbearing and when she found out this party do you know anything about that? >> well, they had a rough marriage because warren harding had a wandering eye. he didn't just have one relationship, he had a whole series he also had an illegitimate child while he was in the white house, so poor florence did have something to be upset about and she liked some of the of their husbands did destroy most of her husband's correspondence to her. she stuck with the marriage partly because she was very

ambitious. she made no bones about the fact when he was senator that she wanted him to be president, and so, she was willing to put up with a lot of his shannon against. oftentimes they would have a public reception of the white house and florence would be downstairs greeting guests and warren with the upstairs with his cronies and his friends playing poker and drinking whisky. they had an interesting relationship. >> i enjoyed your contribution to the c-span presentation. >> [inaudible] [laughter] >> you mentioned with for wilson and the relationship between he

and the second wife to go through the train wreck of the second term did he perceived as a kind of new kernel or did she pursued her herself or what is the dynamic between the two of them? >> she perceives herself as i would say the vice president. she, for example, urged wilson to five-year william jennings bryan as the secretary of state, and he did. she tried to push the colonel assigned she was pretty much a woman that knew what she wanted and set out to achieve it. they had a very i think warm relationship not only tied in

with ambition, but when they were courting their letters are very torrid, and a friend of edith said that when woodrow proposed she fell out of bed. [laughter] so, i think they had a close relationship and she did have aspirations. i think many of these women and rightly so felt they knew as much or more about running the country than their husbands did and that they realize it was only because of the culture of the country that they were restricted to being a kind of a backup person, and that tells

you get into the 20th century, the y jeeves found it more and more to shut tuesday in the background. yes? >> based upon the letters and the relationship of the different couples who would you say had the most compelling relationship and why? someone that you would want to write more on just on that koppel. >> i think there are a number of them that had interesting relationships. i think that from the letters that exist i think lyndon johnson and lady bird johnson's letters make their relationship very interesting because the early letters are very detailed and very close, and then as they progress through their career, their letters become less and

frequent, but often times you wonder whether lyndon actually wrote the letters himself. but i think that they have a very interesting relationship because she clearly wanted a husband who had aspirations to be president. william taft had aspirations to become a justice in the supreme court. his father had been attorney general of the u.s. under a grant, and i think that they wanted it to be a justice of the supreme court. so william taft salles this as the height of a career, and the way that they -- the whole dynamic of their courtship and the letters they wrote trout i think showed this kind of push

and pull relationship and they wrote a very long and detailed letters even late in life, and i think that they really are quite good. i'm surprised that no one actually published a volume but they are excellent letters but there are a lot of really good relationships. eleanor and franklin roosevelt, there's a relationship that, you know, went from a mountaintop to the valley back to the mountaintop and in between. there was a relationship in which sometimes you wonder whether they were actually in the same house together. there is a great letter in here in which franklin roosevelt rights to his wife saying

because of the new federal income tax on world war ii they are going to have to cut back on money that they have to spend because the tax is going to take 50% of the income and he suggests that well they should cut back on the food. they should have won a get breakfast and no second helpings and send the help home to get their dinner and feed them and seems to be totally unaware of the fact that his wife was making a lot of money on her own but wasn't spending any of this in their household. she made a thousand dollars a speech when she was the first lady. she gave over 700 speeches, so she made $700 which she kept for herself.

apparently franklin wasn't in on this part of her life. just as she was not in on the part he had with lucey mercer so maybe there was the trade-off. but it is interesting. you wonder sometimes how in this relationship to what they actually did, and i think that love and sex cannot quite strongly the those are the main two things, the passionate subject gets lost in the middle. >> even though you are a presidential scholar did you find any surprises about how more intelligent or less intelligent some of these people were in the public perceptions? >> i think in general i was surprised at how forceful and

articulate the spouses were in writing to their husbands coming and i think that that is true for martha washington and on. i was also surprised at how articulate for example as this woman whose fragile and in some cases people say she is a wacko

when you read her letters she is very articulate and she knows what she's saying. she's a skilled letter writer and she has good advice for president lincoln. for example she urged him to get rid of general mcclellan and getting general fighter and that was true and she also urged him to give a lot of support to the former slaves who were peacekeeping to the north what they were calling contraband and to support them so that they would not just be a burden on people but to provide housing and clothing and shelter and i think she writes a nice letter

to lincoln in which she said look you have all of this money for soldiers and they are being well taken care of. send me some of that money and i'm going to buy blankets and clothes for the contraband who don't have anything. and i think it really shows she was interested in a lot more than just the latest fashion of clothes or jewelry or something else but they are nice letters. >> i was just curious about how many letters do you have? is curious about how you choose which letter to going to the book to and i know there are some that are not available for the public eye yet. did you choose a because the was the most interesting were showed the best portrait of a president or just once you thought were the best to be published?

>> the first question as there were -- i probably looked at four or 5,000 different letters. there are a lot of letters and some of these corrections. hundreds of letters between husbands and their wives. generally i try to find letters that i thought were interesting and touched on major events. so when they become president i would look for letters of not that period. if a child dhaka and, when they got married, some other event took the letter to the warriors if they were in the world, and then i will say that there are a lot of letters that are not published more than 50% of these letters are not published. many of them are from the

private or restricted collections in presidential library is not open to the public get the families are -- gave me - -- they were very helpful in the first book i did, and i think they were satisfied that that was not a kind of dhaka book and this isn't either. ..

thanks again for the opportunity to talk to you. [applause]

>> i believe that it's important to emphasize that while it's great to have this memorial to his memory and it's great to have a national holiday and a great to have streets and schools and hospitals named in his honor all over our nation and world, it is also important to not place too much emphasis on martin luther king comedy idol,, but not enough emphasis on the ideals of martin luther king jr. >> i to come "the new york times" technology columnist nick bilton talks about business and how technology has changed the

media. >> from time to time on "the communicators," we like to look into the future as some of the technology that may be coming down the road. joining us this week is nick bilton at "the new york times." he's a technology columnist and reporter with the times. mr. bilton, which he read about? >> i read anything to do with technology and business in the technology changes society and culture and also a lot of companies affected what we are doing, including apple, microsoft and thought it was like twitter and facebook, which is not necessarily small anyway. just a range of technology culture. >> when did you get to the francisco area? >> i was in new york for 15 years on the east coast. i'm out here now enjoy the warmer weather. >> why did she live out their aquatic >> i've been in the city 15 years and i've been a reporter

for the paper for a couple years. the forest in the research and development lab in my job is to look into the future. there's definitely a arginine taxiing in new york at the ladders lot of startups and also a whole different world of silicon valley and we decided maybe it would be worth me trying to come out here and explore different opportunities as far as reporting goes and it's been really amazing to see a good unto the valley and meet with larger companies, but also to see some things happening out here in san francisco from a technology standpoint. the next two questions for my less fanfare. number one, where did the research and above that lapse of "the new york times"? an active research and develop lazar started a few years ago. when you look at the paper you have reporters supporting daily stories and i really embedded. and then you have web development team that is actually in the mobile website. between us to comment they are so focused on the daily work that they don't actually get to look at things coming down the

road 10 years from now. so martin harangued times decided to start this research lab kind of based on something you would find at m.i.t. or am i used itp program. and what the goal is. into the future and what we can imagine the media world to look like in the next two to 10 years. a very small group of us, about 10 people or so with that iran and try to figure out okay, what happens with our phones exist in everyone's home and televisions can talk to you or me or struck where you are going to deliver news. research and build prototypes around that. spinnaker any prototypes in use by "the new york times" now? inactivates data visualization where we track how people come to the website. one of the data projects we did was track the day that michael jackson by. we looked at who is coming to

the website and where they were coming from and how quickly the news and information spread. it is essentially a data exercise. what was fascinating if we found that people around the globe discovered michael jackson had passed away in a matter of minutes. it literally spread from ear to california to japan to africa in a matter of minutes. we created this data map or you can actually see traffic coming to this site and it almost explodes. it was actually cnn rudy story that said michael jackson dyson almost takes the internet with them because the news and information was spreading so quickly. now that's being used internally to track on a daily basis how stories are spreading an osha media. the mac nick bilton company to find business models "the new york times" is there forever, are they all updated? not just "the new york times," but other publishing companies, et cetera.

>> business models are definitely outdated across media platforms for various newspapers, radio, all these different things. please see the innovations have been her with blogs and smaller startups and things like that. the perfect example is a lot of technology blog started donati do with rick and mortar business issues and know not to do it contain prices and multiple million-dollar tv studios. they don't just look at premium revenue based on advertising, but they look at the different aspects. one of the things we see are some sites do things that they have communities and say okay, pay $6 a month and get access to a writers are specific papers they publish before anyone else. another thing as conferences through the conference market has been around for many years, but take a look at tech crunch come a technology blog raised in new york and san francisco.

90% of revenues come from conferences that they make millions of dollars doing interviews of people. and so, when you look at the media business models, you shouldn't just look at it as a prescription and advertising and classifieds. there could be a whole different gamut of things people can do to give money to organizations. television is a really interesting model to look at because you have frayed over the air television with advertising. you have limited cable, premium cable, pay per view, over-the-top or people watch things on hulu and netflix and there's different ranges of ways people can pay for the content and consume it in a way that makes most sense. >> nick bilton, someone who writes about technology, do you subscribe to television what he watch over the internet? >> i do not. i canceled my cable internet half ago i believe. probably one of the greatest decisions i made because i tend

to not only not consume cable television and the wii, but it was expensive. it was really difficult to navigate without these remote controls and a lot of the content is really not that great when it comes down to it. you have hundreds of channels, where a lot of tv shows are just filling up base for the most part. there's only a few really good shows. so what i do is -- one as i have a computer hooked up to my television at home and i had this wireless mouse that looks almost like a doughnut and you can hold it in the air and move it around. i have a wireless keyboard, too. so i will watch things on hulu or netflix or sometimes buy things from itunes or something like that. one of the things that really has changed is not necessarily how he watch made to content, but the fact they don't necessarily just watch mainstream content. when friends come over and we sit around the television

afterwards, we don't turn on breaking bad or cnn. we actually pull up you two been passed passed around the remote controlling keyboard and pull up clips we've seen throughout the week that we think are interesting or funny or whatever if they are and it becomes a very social way of watching the news or content online. >> host: nick bilton come you mentioned earlier you are rather amazed seeing silicon valley had been exposed to it now on a regular basis. for some video hasn't been out there, would you tell them about silicon valley? it was funny when i first came out here, somebody from twitter sent me a message in such welcome to baghdad by the way, which i didn't get, but it's essentially been embedded in a different country. john kenneth said managing editor for "the new york times" without here last week celebrating the extension of the blog which i write for at the

time. rechecking around and showed them different companies and met with different people and he said it's essentially like an english out here and our job as reporters is to translate what is at name. when you see things going on out here and really what the future looks like, which i think is a lot of the projects being built in the startups are a couple years ahead of what the mainstream will be, you can really see how amazing and how much a different language it has become when you look at how technology and the way we interact. >> host: nick bilton is a columnist for the best column in "the new york times" commented that section in "the new york times" is also a reporter on technology, but is also the author of a book from last year. i live in the future and here's how it works is the name of his boat. mr. bilton, what is dr. dean? taxco what it means is you get

your own dog food essentially. when google built gmail, they required developers to work there to use gmail and it's essentially called dr. dean. you build a product and use it yourself. >> host: why to use that term and how did she do eat your own dark food for "the new york times" are not your own dog food? >> guest: one of the things is i try to practice what i preach. i didn't have traditional reporting background. at documentary film courses, but not traditional journalism back on the lot of them had. i approach becoming a reporter they are a something almost like starting a startup. and so, i do what i do on mine in the paper. so i have a conversation with readers than it constantly using social media, twitter, facebook, all these things to reach out to readers. i have some questions and let

them know about breaking news as i am writing it. i cannot follow the narrative in the ark of the return of matter what the story is. that is something very different than the print model rewrite the story and the only way anyone can communicate with reporters back in the day was to write a letter to the editor and that was a little column in the back there was edited and so on. and just narrative changes when you can actually have a conversation with your readers. it's also dog food in the way that i don't just think about things than words. if i am updating twitter or facebook, i'm not just writing words. i'm putting photos and videos in interesting links and things like that and i do the same thing with reporting where you take photos or graphics or shoot videos or whatever makes most sense for that story. >> host: what kind of feedback you get from readers? >> guest: the feedback is great. readers love being part of a

conversation. they cannot do that. and of course, there is some angry readers that don't like the things i write, but for the most part, feedback is really good. one thing that is really helpful to readers and myself is if i am interviewing someone, let's say i'm interviewing bill gates and i ask them first if it is okay, but it was semisweet and they may face same interviewing bill gates. do you have questions? questions from readers that inevitably a couple of alaskan will make it into the story. and so, there is a spark of the narrative, where the reader is not just reading, but also participating in that's been really, really helpful. >> host: and your vote, "i live in the future & here's how it works," when the opening stories you tell us how you no longer subscribe to the print edition of your paper. >> guest: yeah, there is an interesting mix variants. when i first started at the time, i remember one of the most

exciting parts of working for "the new york times" is the fact they could get the sunday paper on saturdays. they had an early version called the bulldog, which is printed on saturday mornings. i used to ride my bike over to the times bureau main headquarters in way for the print edition and i would go home and devour it. france had not been started asking me and i was essentially coming back with piles and piles of newspapers. all of a sudden my friend stopped asking me to get them the sunday paper and i start getting at in my daily newspapers started to pile up. it wasn't that i wasn't in the the times. i just exhibited in that capacity. i started reading i might be reader, computer, mobile phones and consuming it differently. and so, i decided i no longer wanted to get the paper product. i wanted to consuming digital devices. part of the reason and it's definitely preferential for

me -- [inaudible] but it still not that way for a lot of readers are the million people subscribe to the paper had daily basis. >> host: how did you cancel your subscription? >> guest: i took off from newsroom and i remember is very nervous about it. somebody i knew was going to pick up the phone on the other end and i called and canceled and they try to convince me otherwise; he wasn't someone i knew. i disguised my voice and is quite funny. >> host: when the news cannot do it canceled canceled your paper subscription, what was the reaction from "the new york times"? >> guest: wasn't good. i was being interviewed by wired on a feature story at the research i had done in the labs and at the end of the interview, the reporter said by the way, you still read the print paper? i said no, i read actually on

this product called the times reader which we have developed an times reader with an application for tablet before the ipod, where it looked just like a newspaper experience but in this digital format. now i read on the times reader. the lead of this article was nick bilton listeners. it's newspapers he can't stand. it got picked up all over the place and there was definitely an interesting response. in the end, the times recognized that i was essentially kind of the next generation of reader. and they needed to listen to what i have to say and other reporters that weren't necessarily reading the print had to say. that's a testament of them having the research lab in building the ipod docks and iphone apps and all these different things than they are definitely aware of that now. >> host: nick bilton, and your book and columns you talk about the me generation. what do you mean by that?

>> guest: a couple different things to that. one of the things that have been his digital fours the world where things are smart and understand what we want. so i may want to watch a tv show on my iphone. you may want to watch on a 72-inch plasma television. someone else may want to watch it on their laptop. it is whatever is preferential to you. and whether it's television content or video or news articles and it really is summed up by the way we all consume content these days on different devices. and that sort of the beauty of digital. and the same respects, also a term i talk about in the book called me economics, where you have a lot of kids that if they would have gone 20 years ago if you went to a bookstore and purchased a book and didn't like it, you could have returned it the same way a video or clothing

or everyday spirit and the digital word you can't do that. it's one of the flaws of the way we build systems. if i bought a song from itunes and i don't like it i can't return it. so what you see are that if kids take in the into their hands and that's what i call me economics. they say i bought this last album that i didn't like it and an acidic world ipo to return it, so the digital world i'm going to steal the next version of this album that i get to kind of balance things out a little bit. >> host: the subtitle of your book is why your world, working brain are being creatively disrupted. you have a chapter in here insurgents in video games. what he said about? >> guest: one of the reasons i actually wrote the book was in response to a letter books and articles out there saying that the internet is bad for us and technology is bad for us. i didn't agree in one of the

reasons is that at a computer since i was four years old. i've met first atari either sold you have essentially grown up in this digital world and i think i've turned out okay. some may argue otherwise. in reality, there is no evidence that says these things are bad for us. i started to do research into what happens with our brains when using devices, iphone and ipod. if the tenor of scientists across the country and there were a couple of things i discovered. first of all the videogames suspect. there's an assumption video games are bad, but a tremendous underresearched says they're very good for us. research is done at the rochester institute of technology have found kids that play first-person shooter video games actually have the visual acuity of someone who is. they have better hand eye coordination, better long-term and short-term working memory along with other things. research was done in california

around people that pay testers and they found the same results, remember he was better after playing tetris a little while and all these different things. the videogames are a different form of storytelling. they are not bad and they're not going to replace books or movies. they are just a new form of the way we consume content. to say that they are bad is completely inaccurate. as far as surgeons, there is research done at nyu, where they found surgeons that play video games are actually 40% tax there and i believe 40% more accurate than those who don't. the other aspect is when you look at the argument that these digital devices are bad for us, the epiphany i had at the moment, this baja moment when i was thinking it research and she's also in their assigned

this. and the beginning of her book, she said she came to the sad realization that human race with never designed to read. we actually are not designed to read. it's something we have to train our brains to do. when you say devices and video games are bad and should be reading books, our brains are not designed to do that either. it is all us creating this new form of storytelling. >> host: you also look at industry is cutting-edge. >> guest: yeah. one of the things that's been at the forefront of a lot of technology thousands and thousands of years. i actually found from a friend who works at nature, the science magazine, that the industry was at the forefront of business back in the days on page, selling statues on market. and the industry has always been an innovator when it comes to technology. the reason for that is the lot of governments and officials and religious leaders have always

tried to suppress the industry so they've had to figure out ways to make money and reach consumers by going around the rules of the day. if you look at the printing press, two of the most popular books in the early days of the printing press. one was the bible and another was a book that was essentially tales. follow us all the way through the industry innovated when it came to dvds to cds, to the internet in the early days of the web, there were people using for e-mail science journals have course new analysts went to california and interviewed a lot of different companies. what i found was the larger organizations, playboy, penthouse had gone out of business and had gone bankrupt for tens of millions of dollars in the hole. whereas you have this mulgrew

both very small start at 50 wow, that had started to create content and sell it to a very small audience. it was almost esoteric to a certain degree. the content they were creating people are paying for. what i found this just like we see what the media world where you have larger news organizations in magazines and so on that are having trouble continuing revenue growth they've had in the past 20 euros smaller blogs starting up in saying we don't need to have a printing press for a new studio. we can do this for my bedroom even an reach the same audience with the same kind of quality and content. >> host: nick bilton, is the occupy wall street movements a good example of how facebook and twitter are much more powerful than c. in new york times editorial today as far as motivating people? >> guest: as far as motivating people every degree.

as far as influence i don't know if i would agree with that. they think they are both equally as powerful to a degree. you know, the occupy wall street but that was not started by "the new york times." it was started by ad busters, which is a magazine that is very liberal. who is really perpetuated by people. you can see that it is just amazing to see. there's occupy wall street in every country around america. i was in madrid this week and i was watching twitter and youtube videos from l.a. and san francisco and all these different occupy areas. i'm outside my bedroom -- my hotel room i hear yelling and there's an occupy wall street protest in front of me in madrid. you can see this global event taking place and how quickly it spread. there's two aspects to it. one is the started in october and it is now everywhere.

and the other aspect to it is in the past i think we kind of relied on the media to be the watchdog. that is still the relative media. people are now part of that too. the devices we carry around in our pocket. everyone has a printing press. everyone can reach the same number of people with the right content. we see that with some of the actions the police are taking when there is a veteran beaten by police in oakland recently. that video would fire on the internet. you can see the you see davis events that took place by the police officer pepper sprayed students sitting on the floor, which is also changing the movement. but we see happening is the ricocheting of the news media and people involved in occupy wall street, where they are helping perpetuate the conversation together. >> host: you often write about personal experiences when you write your column, nick bilton.

one is when you move out to the west coast and you go, move the books or leave them. >> guest: a difficult decision, one that definitely generated quite a bit of discussion. i was packing up my stuff to know to san francisco when i had these piles and piles of books. i thought to myself, do i want to bring this out? for the most part they literally sat on a bookshelf in my living room for the past few years. all the new books that i buy are on a kindle or ipaq. i can't remember the last time i bought a print book. and so was it worth it to ship all these things out, the money it would've cost comes out of gas, however they would've gone out there, for them to sit on a bookshelf again out in california. i decided eventually to take 10% and live about 90%. >> host: nick bilton contiguity recent column. there is no data sheriff on the wild west.

>> guest: one of the things i've really been reporting on over the last year as a lack of oversight when it comes to privacy on the internet. facebook has more information about people around the world than any government agency could even dream out. there's nobody regulating them. one of the reasons this even came out was earlier this year, sony was hacked and 77 million people's personal information was essentially compromised by hackers. part of the reason that sony had outdated servers. they didn't have the protocol place. the reason was there were no rules or regulations that said they had to. there is no slap on the wrist. no one got in any kind of travel. and that could have been essentially happening within a

company. part of the reason for this is there is no legislation. this is a real problem. their sister tonic shift that happens online where people's privacy are no longer owned by them. it's essentially a real problem we will see the effects of over the next few years as more and more people with content and information and personal information is taken advantage of. >> host: aren't most people aware of what they're providing to companies in doing so willingly? and silicon valley companies without sin? are pushing back against a new legislative affairs? >> guest: at a thing people are aware. if you go under grupo and type a search for something personal, say prostate cancer, the search unless you tell them otherwise not do. if you are part of a group on

facebook that is maybe a religious group over there three days, facebook knows that knowledge. a lot of people aren't aware these things are happening. in fact, last year i had to go on a television show and explain how to change privacy settings on facebook and i couldn't figure it out. i'm a technology reporter who is excessively on mine and literally could not figure out how to change all my facebook privacy settings. a lot of people are unaware of things happening on this website. the companies, google, facebook, benefits and not because they deliver advertising and make it to store this data and make money fr om that. and so there is a lot of pushback from them. it is pretty apparent that there needs to be some sort of oversight to say that people need to have that as to their contents and information and to delete from the web because you

can't delete anything. and there needs to be some oversight to say that these companies should have specific detection someplace to protect privacy as they store information online. >> host: nick bilton, you recently offered a different job, weren't you? >> guest: i was offered a different job, yes. >> host: what was it and why did you take it? >> guest: i was recently offered a television related job at another organization. and it very seriously considered taking it. but in the end, i really love working at "the new york times." it's the place i'm incredibly proud of going into work every day and proud of the reporting that everyone i work with does in the reporting i do admit editors. i don't think you can really get that in many other places. when i look at the effects of a talk about media versus people on twitter and so on, i think

they definitely live in the same world now, but it's also very important for media companies to keep an eye on the things that are happening. for example, facebook privacy and report on these things in "the new york times" is one of the best places to do that. >> host: trained three, if people want to read you, what's the best ways define you? >> guest: all my stories they share online come on twitter or facebook and you can find me on nick bilton on anything on the internet. i am also the bits blog at nytimes.com and that's pretty much it. >> host: and you have your own website. >> host: if you go to nick bilton.com and pick up his book, "i live in the future & here's how it works," darius qr codes that every chapter for more content.

take a picture of the book on your screen right now. nick bilton has been a guest on "the communicators." thank you for your time. >> guest: thank you for having me. >> up next on c-span 2, we bring you books about first ladies.

>> we need to lemonade these entitlement programs. way to tap them, cut them, cap them, send them back to the state and remove federal oversight and let the states have flexibility to deliver these. we have brought to the forefront. others have took my top about it and they do nothing about it. but right now, it is this liberty movement, which is seen as a patriotic movement and individual liberty movement that is saying to the country and the world, we have had enough of sending our kids and money around the world to be the

policeman. it's time to bring them home. [inaudible conversations] >> we feel very good about a year we feel conservatives are coalescing around our campaign and that's going to be good for us not just in south carolina, but when we go forward. a quick reminder, the deadline soon.

>> now, a conversation on the boat, jacqueline kennedy. mr. conversations at the life with caroline kennedy and michael beschloss. >> good evening. you've read the news stories, but your copies of the book, red watch the abc primetime special morning television and even "the daily show" with jon stewart. e and now tonight live from the se kennedy library, with its oral history was so carefully houseth for the past half-century, we heard directly from jacqueline kennedy about her life with our 35th resident and from their daughter who was brought this fresh new history too late. and tom putnam to light. i am tom putnam director of a

kennedy presidential library and museum in him to have a loved executive director of the kennedy library foundation, members of our foundation board, many of whom are here with us tonight, and all of my library foundation colleagues, i thank you for coming and all those watching on c-span and acknowledge the generous underwriters of the kennedy library for him, sponsor bank of america, boston capital, the boston foundation and their media partners, the "boston globe" in wbur. the opening text of our new exhibit, in her voice, jacqueline kennedy, the white house years, which pairs this new oral history with never before seen documents and artifacts from our collections reads, jacqueline kennedy had a rare combination of gifts, intelligence, courage, discipline, artistic creativity and a style all her on. she had an adventurous spirit and was an accomplished woman who lived life at full gallop.

door of history provides us with many of mrs. kennedy's personal recollections and insights and i hope you'll allow me to comment on just one. when asked by -- is some andrews with us about where the president's relaxed mrs. kennedy replied, it was while failing. he loved loves the son and the water. she remembers jfk as blissfully happy with the wind blowing his hair and as it was for him, getting out on a horse was for me. for her thoughts and forward to the book and some of her mother's recollections, we also learn about caroline kennedy, whose steady leadership puts his his library in the forefront of the presidential library system and providing worldwide access to archival collections. we learned the adventure stories her father told caroline is a young girl, stories about to ponies, white star and black star. as they wove these tales the president would let her pick which horse she horseshoe was to write and asked which of her

cousin should race on the other. in the interview in parade magazine caroline describes often choosing dee dee smith is her adversary whose fathers is named for and when asked by the interviewer if she was always the heroin in the jfk story she quipped, of course. would you want to go to bed thinking that stevie smith triumphed over you? [laughter] we will open tonight with a brief introduction from the triumphant horsewoman in our -- after caroline's comments are panel will feature aye beschloss describe a "newsweek" as the nation's leading presidential historian who wrote the introduction to this new book as well as extensive annotations and richard k. donohue a member of the kennedy administration, the vice chair of the kennedy library foundation board of directors who knew and worked with jacqueline kennedy in the white house here in massachusetts during the 1960 campaign. we are delighted to have ted widmer a speechwriter for president clinton and director

of the john carter library as this evening's moderator. drawers in the program we will take written questions from the audience. their index cards available on the desk and we will collect them from you. let me note a few special guests who are here with us tonight including vicki kennedy, kathleen kennedy townsend, sidney lawford mckelvey, and two former kennedy administration officials who both happen to be my predecessors as director of this library, charles daly and dan smith. also joining us this evening is jim gardner who among other duties oversee the presidential library system for the national archives. and nation reveals itself by the men and women it produces jfk once stated and in jacqueline kennedy this nation produced a most remarkable woman. among the many -- on this new book is that it is truly revelatory of her extraordinary life, keen wit and historical combatants. as maureen maureen dowd noted at

column -- persuaded the french to loan the mona lisa to the u.s. the only time it is lev rants and encourage white house chef to serve french cuisine at state dinners rather than hire a cook. in its editorial the "boston globe" praised caroline for publishing the oral history and demonstrating her trust in the general public and posterity to judge these reporting for themselves. she is for many of us are on gallant knight, white star galloping through these troubled times on behalf of the causes her parents believed and not the least of which is an appreciation of history. much is revealed caroline writes in the forward to the new book why her mother statements, her tone and even her pauses and the same can be said of the decision to publish this oral history by the daughter of jacqueline kennedy raised so well. ladies and gentlemen, caroline kennedy. [applause]

[applause] >> thank you all for coming. i want to thank the staff of the library and the foundation for their stewardship and their tremendous care and dedication that they show every day here at the library and board members who are here and people that i have worked with over the years. and especially the members of my family who are here. they mean so much to me and i think it's a wonderful tribute to our parents that we are all here together, so thank you all. most importantly, it means a great deal that 50 years after my father's presidency, so many people still share his vision or america and are interested in learning about his administration. but time is becoming part of history in living memory.

in president kennedy's words, his spirit and his example remain as vital as ever. now when young people often feel disconnected from politics it is up to us as the boats to reach across the generations and recommit ourselves and our country to the ideals he lived by. for my family and the kennedy library, the goals of these anniversary years are to stimulate interest in public service and use the power of history to help us solve the problems of our own time. we have undertaken a number of important projects. we have created the largest presidential digital archive in which my father's papers are now available on line worldwide, so that people can study and see history in the making. we have launched the jfk 50th web site which includes downloadable exhibits and curriculum for students and for kids can upload testimonials about their own public service in the spirit of jfk.

we sponsored conferences on the presidency, bill of rights, scientific inundation and the quest for nuclear disarmament. all issues that continue to shape our national destiny. and as you all know we have published the seven interviews my mother gave in 1964 as part of an oral history project in which more than 1000 people were interviewed about my father's life and career. when these interviews were completed, she sealed the audiotapes here at in the kennedy library and posted -- not put the transcripts in a safe deposit vault in new york so she often spoke of them to me and john. few other people knew of their existence and she never gave another interview on the subject. the underlying goal of the oral history project, which was the largest of its kind at the time, was to capture recollections while they were fresh, before

the stories have been told a million times or become overly mythologized. no one interview was expected to be complete or comprehensive but together with the underlying documentary record and historical archive have here at the kennedy library, it was hoped that they might form a composite picture that would be valuable in later years. to me their most important value is that they make history, life. they give us a glimpse of the human side of the people at the white house and remind us that they are just as imperfect as the rest of us. people have been surprised that my mother, who was so famously private, or just debated in this project and gave it her full commitment. but to me, it makes perfect sense. my parents shared a love of history. as a child my father was sick a great deal. while his brothers and sisters were out playing football, he spent hours reading in bed.

i had his books on british parliamentary history, the federalist papers, and the the american civil war and the great orators of ancient times. my mother preferred novels, poetry and memoirs. as tom says, she read war and peace during the wisconsin primary, tube leak winter landscapes. [laughter] she had some nice things to say about wisconsin also. and she always told us the best preparation for life in the white house was reading the memoirs -- who describes the court of louix xiv. my mother brought the same intellectual curiosity to current affairs. when she was engaged in first married to my father come she translated countless french books for him about the struggle for independence in the french colonies of algeria, tunisia, vietnam and cambodia all of which gave her the deep

understanding of the parts of the world that most americans were barely aware of at the time. and they are still shaping her history today. she brought to the oral history interviews a respect for accuracy and historical scholarship. that is why she chose the interview by arthur schlesinger. the pulitzer prize-winning historian who had served as a special assistant to my father. it took a good deal of courage to be as honest as she was, but her own reading of the chronicles of chronicles of the past convinced her that future generations would benefit from her commitment to tell the truth as she saw it. it wasn't easy, but she felt that she was doing it for my father's sake and for history. since this book has come out, some people have been surprised by your statements and opinions. in today's world of cautious political memoir, it is hard to imagine a contemporary public figure writing such a forthright book. that she did not -- did knock

dick cheney out of the number one spot on the bestsellers list. [applause] [laughter] so i think she deserves a lot of credit for her honesty. one of the difficult decisions i faced was whether to edit the interviews. there are repetitions, issues that haven't stood the test of time, comments that can be taken out of context and views that she would later change. it didn't seem fair to leave them and but on the other hand, these were formal interviews, not accidentally reported -- recorded conversations and both participants understood that they were creating a primary source document. so although there are good arguments on both sides of the issue, i felt that i didn't really have the right to alter the historical record. i also wanted people to see what and how my mother thought at a particular moment in time. it's sometimes difficult for me to reconcile that people feel they know her because they have

a sense of her image or her style, but they have never been able to appreciate her intellectual curiosity, her sense of mischief, her deep in gauge meant with people and events around her and her fierce loyalty to my father. for a modern listener, one of the striking things about these interviews is how they evoke a moment in time. in your statements, my mother takes care to come across as an obedient wife of the 1950's, who thinks only of creating a home for her husband and children. in keeping with the purpose of the interviews, but also in keeping with the times, arthur schlesinger asked fewer questions about her own activities or conception of her public role than an interviewer would ask a first lady today. and now that she has become sort of an international icon, it's hard to remember that she was only 31 when my father became president and totally

overwhelmed by the prospect. it is interesting to track her evolution into the modern woman and ironic that despite the hopelessly old-fashioned views she expresses, that transformation began in the white house. though she played largely traditional role of the first lady, like so many women she found her identity through work. when she moved into the white house, she had a 3-year-old. [laughter] and a newborn baby. her pregnancies have been difficult and she would lose another child in 1963, so caring for us and protecting us was their top by ernie. that it had been a long time since there have been children in the white house and the obligation to the first lady included a busy official schedule. she fought to carve out some time that she spent with us each day, and early version of the work family balancing act that women are so familiar with. but she was dismayed by the

uninspiring, or shall we be honest, hideously unattractive look of the white house and its surroundings. she shared my fathers believed that american civilization had, the age and was determined to project the very best of our history, art and culture to the world. she wanted the legacy of washington, jefferson and lincoln to be visible to american students and families who visited our nation's capital and foreign heads of state who were entertained there. so she set about to transform the white house into one of the nation's premier museums of american art, decorative arts and history. this was more complex than simply redecorating, a word she didn't like. the project involved congressional oversight and inter-agency debate. she was determined that it be self financing and self-sustaining and proud that is elevated academic research and scholarship in the field of american art. for television tour stimulated new interest and pride in our

cultural heritage. she set up the fine arts committee, founded the white house historical association and reorganized some white house libraries to showcase works of american literature. she created and mostly wrote the first guide look and got arthur schlesinger to help with the book, the presidential biographies, which are both still sold today. course before eager to help her. but this was an ambitious undertaking and although it's hard to believe today it was controversial and carried political risk. during my father's senate campaign in 1958, and the 1960 primaries, my mother felt that she was a political liability to my father because of her fancy french accent and clothing. his advisers did too. they lined up against the white house restoration which they thought was elitist and they were concerned about the propriety of creating a

guidebook or guy recently came across a few memos on the subject and i thought you might like to hear some excerpts. the first is from a memorandum to the president, where proposed sale of mementos in the white house from jack mcnally. a loyal irishmen from worcester massachusetts who was put in charge of the white house administration. he attach supporting memos from the white house police and the department of interior who joined him in opposing the idea of the guidebook. in behavior that could not be called a profile in courage, my father just gave the memo to secretary to forward to my mother. [laughter] it reads in part, the large flow of people to the white white house was accomplished by the fact that there were no obstructions to the flow of traffic. the secret service and white white house police contend that a moving crowd is a safe crowd. we must take into consideration the possibility of severe criticism from the public.

frequent -- commercialism does not and has never existed in any form in the president's home. consideration must also be given to the impressions formed by visiting dignitaries who would be exposed to such a commercial venture in the president's home. also possible criticism from the press and members of congress. as examples of the criticism that might result, we would like to cite in favorable plug the city that given the truman balcony and the efforts of the eisenhower did stretch and to keep squirrels off the president's putting green. [laughter] this last reference was too much for my mother who wrote in the margin, absurd, how stupid. this is not a concession stand. there's absolutely there is absolutely no connection. [laughter] like other people who came up against my brother's -- mother mcnally did not stand a chance. not long afterwards my mother wrote to the white house chief, mr. west the president tells me that jack mcnally who was

against selling guidebooks in the beginning now says lots more can be sold on the way out. [laughter] this is your province and does not want to mention it wishes rather sweet of him. i agree we can use the money, every penny is needed. not long after her commitment to history led her pressured by father to support unesco effort to save egyptian temples, which were going to be flooded by the construction of the athlon. she wrote a long memo to jfk which you can see downstairs laying out the importance of the temples and suggested that this would he a nice gesture to nasser as he promised aramco to not interview it -- might interfere the berkshire demonstrates an understanding of cold war diplomacy writing. the psychological and clinical argument carries more weight than the economic one. the russians are building the dam and strictly economic enterprise. i saving the temple the u.s. could show they care about the

spiritual side and realize the importance of saving the cultural patrimony of each of. i think my father rolled over on this one too. the temples were saved in the temple is now the metropolitan museum of new york was a gift from the government of egypt to the people of the united states to united states to thank them for their support. her commitment to history also letter to encourage my father to save lafayette square and start restoring pennsylvania avenue. these efforts helped launch the historic preservation movement at a time when neighborhoods across the country were being demolished from modern office buildings to urban renewal projects. and she didn't give up. in 1970 she was still twisting my uncle teddy's arm. a letter to him read, dearest teddy -- [laughter] you can tell where this is going. i send you that moynihan's letter to me. the week before let the white house that went to see president johnson to ask him if he was a president kennedy's committee

for pennsylvania avenue. before we left washington jacobin working on the president -- pennsylvania avenue project. when he, and sometimes we would walk halfway there at night, the tawdriness of the encroachment to the presidents have depressed him. he was to do something that would ensure inability of architecture along that avenue, which is the main artery of the government of the united states. this was not something that came as my time to restore the white house. it was his own vision and that is why i felt such an urgency about asking president johnson. i knew he would have so many things piling on him. he would not give priority to the committee for pennsylvania avenue. that is why begged him to receive them. he did. you can ask them how surprised they were to be among the first meetings of lyndon johnson. here comes the hard part. i gather from moynihan's letter that he is recent to feel uncomfortable with you. i don't know the reasons but i can guess them.

[laughter] i just wanted to tell you with all my heart this is one thing that meant something to jack. love, jackie. said teddy results his differences with moynihan and as he always did, he found a way to make it happen. in so many ways of private and public she defined the role of first lady for the modern age. she straddled two eras, the one she describes an oral history when women stayed home and had few opinions that differed from their husbands, and the coming age when women broke free to become independent and self-supporting. she lived fully engulfed. as first lady she took the traditional woman's focus on the home and transformed it into a full-time job and a source of national pride. in doing so she created her own identity as an independent woman. she became an international sensation, new kind of american, speaking the languages of the country she visited with my er