club that members who will not expect special favors for themselves but a better land for us all. [applause] .. and his congregation moved to cleveland park and it became a

baptist church. was a baptist church for quite some time and the congregation decided they too would remove it and they were going to solve this building and it was going to become a nightclub. it was the immediately as that news came out, they said we can't let it become a nightclub. let's make it a synagogue again. a refurbished it to its original glory based on old photographs and we were fortunate because my oldest son who is now 20 was the first boy in fifty years from this -- was the first person in -- since world war ii to use one of the code get in there. we are celebrating those two gentlemen and all the people who brought this back. from the sublime to deep

political, you read a book about "the obamas". a very at miring book. the administration has disagreed. they have come out with some comments about you. what is it like to have a political firefight. what do you make of what is happening? >> it is a little change -- strange because -- i have been covering the obamas for five years for the new york times and started with a series we call the long run about trying to capture the lives of the candidates. especially because candidates are so restricted now. so hard to get access to them. one way we learn about them is through their biographies. we don't deeply into their past and characters and look at the whole person. this book in a way is an outgrowth of those stories i have been doing for years and

years. the goal of this book was to really write about what i call the big change. when i started covering barack obama and michele obama they were barack and michele. the extraordinary thing that i was watching happen was watching these regular people become president and first lady of the united states. what i was seeing is it wasn't a process that happened on inauguration day when he took the oath but a learning curve. made all the more dramatic in the obama story because of national and political life and the fact that they are the first african-american president and first lady. we see a couple things happening in this book. we see people learning to take their partnership that used to be a private thing and turn it into a white house partnership. they have a tough landing

initially in the white house and turn it around. the third thing the book is about the most fascinating thing i find about barack obama which is his struggle with politics. after all these years they can't get over the fact that the politician has a complex relationship with the business he is in. i worked on this book for two years and published it. the white house cooperated. have been working with these folks for years. lots of people in the obama inner circle gave me interviews. they knew exactly what they were getting into. never misrepresent what i was doing and fact checked the books before publication and we published it on the times on saturday. and then two really interesting things happened. people started discussing the book without reading the book. that never happened to me before

because the newspaper reporter, and the other thing is the white house did start pushing back in interesting ways. they haven't really challenged the reporting in the book. i haven't gotten a call from david axelrod saying you got it all wrong and -- something that really surprised me happened yesterday which was michele obama went on tv and she said it -- i am paraphrasing -- i am really tired of the depiction of myself as an angry black woman. and protested portrayals of her fighting with rahm emanuel. that was fascinating to me, it definitely does not portray her in a stereotypical way and i'm very clear to mention the clashes between her and emanual were philosophical in nature.

maybe i shouldn't undercuts and talk about their differences in approach to political life. she didn't acknowledge she didn't read the books of have to imagine she is responding to the coverage of the book instead of the book itself. part of the reason i am excited to be here is to talk about the actual thing with all of you. >> let's go to that political thing. that is one of the themes running through the book. remind me when theodore roosevelt went into politics everyone around him -- that is beneath people like us. is that the attitude -- the call about politics? >> the reason their qualms are important and not the fetus is there similar to be called a lot of us have about politics. we all see what is wrong with the political system, what is ugly about it, whether it can

address social needs and what not, this was one of the many things about obama that was such a big aspect in the campaign that ends of being inhibiting in the presidency time and time again in my reporting, in very simple ways and in very complicated ways. i found he had trouble acting like a politician. a small story is about the first super bowl party in the white house. he is kind to everybody, he has principal objection and doesn't want to be easy guy spending the entire super bowl schmoozing and -- he wants to hang on to a normal life in the presidency, in my reporting, tested again and again. >> another story where he

insisted on having dinner. and washington power brokers, is that a constant theme wanting to preserve domestic life. >> certainly wanting to preserve domestic life, barack obama gets to washington and not only does he have not so much executive or national security or economic experience but he never lived in the same house as his family full time. the white house which is -- way, shape or form. he is obviously willing to miss dinner in importance situations and two nights a week. i found in my reporting that the obamas are constantly seeking ways to limit and protect

themselves from political life. >> why do you think he ran. >> it was a hard decision. his aides say the summer of 2006, dismissive of it. began to test the waters. the decisionmaking process, in 2006 through the fall. the time is now. if you miss this window of opportunity may never get it again and ponte vedra is obama as opposed in part because of the family issues. he worries about a tax and what standing it has and in a couple years may benefit him and the chief of staff said to me that

the decision weighed on her. i find her situation at that time so dramatic because the way people describe it is she really did feel her husband would be an exceptional president and yet she really wasn't sure if it was the best thing for her family. how do you choose between what you think might be good for the country and more aware of what -- what might be good for you. >> mitch daniels did not run for president -- do you think they had this discussion? >> the president and first lady talked about, the warehouse is almost a character in the book. i spent a lot of time describing what it is actually life to live there and what the structure is like and all the restrictions that come with that life. i will admit that that is fun to report on and read and there's a little bit of exploratory pleasure in getting inside the house but i think there are two

very substantive things about it. next to me is the meaty argument which is confined in isolation of the presidency has two important effects on our system. one is that it limits the number of people who are willing to run for office along with all the other factors. the number of people who are willing to go to a presidential campaign and then live this incredibly restricted life, it is pretty small. the other thing is we consistently see these presidents get cut off in the white house and they'll say it is not going to happen to them and it happens to all of them. >> michele obama is one of the first -- generally the youngest person to have served as first lady since the sexual revolution. did she because of what generation she is from have a more difficult time than other first ladies being second fiddle if that is the right word?

>> it is funny because she is such a pupil of hillary clinton in that way. she and everybody else, one eye on the hillary clinton situation, the attacks in the 2008 campaign were really painful for her and everybody around her to be that new to public life and watch herself caricatured that way was really hard. the twist to it is what her aides talked about was the traditional nature of first lady head which was so confining at first and protecting her a little bit. political life is so difficult, it is another way of limiting. saying i don't do policy.

i don't have to be part of the kind of discussion. i am not going to get engaged in these kinds of debates. i think there's something very protective about the traditionalism of that role. now much more prominent role in the presidential message is what she wanted in the first place. >> there are odd moments and these are nearing -- moments of sort of real vulnerability. there's one episode you describe where she is wearing normal shorts in the grand canyon and robin givens made fun of them saying they were -- i don't know what -- normal shorts and wondered if she was letting the team down. how do you weigh the balance of fulmer ability and fierceness? that alternates in the book. >> vast part of what i think is so fascinating, she took part of the reasons that -- let spanish

the phrase increase black woman from the culture. not only from this book but part of the reason that caricature of her is so overgrown is it mixes the vulnerability and it mixes the inside the. that is the word. you don't call her angry. they call her anxious. i found her really fuming after the victory. scott brown, republican, wins. devastating consequences for the president's legislative agenda. it is all in jeopardy now. she has two issues. one is she doesn't understand how they could have let this happen. how they could have dropped the ball. the other issue which is more interesting and goes to the

heart of the rules replays in the presidency is she has this idea that her husband is going to be a trans formative president's. she never likes politics. if you are going to go into politics, you have this lofty vision of who you are going to be. and the administration and health care deals like the nebraska one that were very unpopular, and barack obama was starting to look like a more ordinary politician. that is what she was reacting to. that is the partnership that is so interesting. not that we are delving into the secrets of their marriage. we are looking at her vision of the presidency and what she steaks him to that the standard she has and whether he can meet them. >> does it have a philosophical or ideological direction or not?

>> i am so glad you asked that because it goes to something you have written a lot about. you and michele obama have a little bit of something common. [talking over each other] >> i think based on my reading of your work you both have -- you put all your faith in government. to me the philosophical difference between michele and barack obama is he has always ultimately put stock in the legislative process to get things done. that is his political career. very early on, goes back to springfield she looked at what was going on in springfield and she said i don't believe the legislative process can actually produce the systemic change we need in our society. there are lot of stories of her looking at what is happening and

looking at good legislation that -- political garbage or was defeated and the interesting thing is she always took a non governmental approach working with the community more, working on partnerships and businesses and the contrast comes back in the presidency because the president is doing health care reform in the fall of 2009 and obviously having a hard time of it. hasn't brought the country along with him. it is not as popular as you wants it to be. she starts her own initiative. what does she started? childhood obesity. what is the end result of eliminating childhood obesity in america? you would have a much healthier population and you would lower health-care costs because you would diminish these diseases

like diabetes and heart disease that really bog down the health care system. to me she has got this kind of non-governmental answer to the problem. >> to you think she is the sort of person who in the middle of that fight at night when their upstairs together is saying you got to keep the public option? does she get to that level -- >> what her aides say is she doesn't get bogged down in policy details. she is not fluid in the language of washington and policy details. what they do say and this is where i think liberals and progressives can take heart with her, is that she really keep them focused on the reason he ran in the first place to do big things and two issues that come up in my reporting was she really backed him against political advisers. the health care reform and also immigration reform. >> i was once interviewing

somebody in the white house and the president was leaving at that moment ago when the helicopter and my interview was interrupted as the guy got up and stood at the window just to watch the president's back for 15 seconds and then he came back and finished. that typifies to meet the love affair staffers have. they want to see the guy. has this love affair changed them? has the process they have the honor through, do you think it has changed them? >> absolutely. it is a story of transformation. i think there's a lot of political education involved in that. there's a lot of them becoming more sure in their role and more sophisticated and better attuned and then there is a kind of loss too because part of the reason that the obamas were so interesting in 2008 were the

ways he resisted political culture and the reasons they wanted to do things their own way. there was once a barack obama refused to wear the little american flag lapel because he said this is kind of cheesy. that barack obama was several versions ago. your question about whether the insular nature of the white house and the difference staff has for them, that is an interesting question. the first lady, people in the white house, can be very hesitant to confront her. people say that is completely wrong and as long as you approach things in a logical way -- >> a pattern in every white

house recovered the president is always afraid of confrontation and the first lady is not. is that a pattern that appears here? >> so much so and i agree with you that the history is so consistent that it is beginning to seem to me that -- it seems like you almost cannot be president without a spouse who is willing to be vigilant, tough and watch your back. >> one of the great mysteries of american media was how barbara bush got a reputation as an old grandmother. >> i think one of the greatest profiles ever written, this is sending you back to the archives but i have to give a shout out to marjorie williams because her profile of barbara bush in vanity fair that she wrote late

-- and -- [talking over each other] >> 32 collections of books which are available. the profile where certain parts of the house were on the record. certain parts were off the record. fantastic. continuing this theme of the insularity, she has no new friends. >> and in 2004, sort of reiterated it. >> is that a good will? >> we see it benefits and its harm. on the one hand they have this

really close, nurturing group of friends with similar backgrounds. african-americans from chicago, similar pattern from working families all went to eat universities and did extremely well and people ended up together and really bonded together and on the one hand this marvelously protective function for the obamas, started hearing description of the obamas around their friends because they are different. they let their guard down. they are relaxed and they are loose and sunni and say things they can't say in public any more. it does become an issue in the presidency because the group i interviewed, members of this group, they don't want to talk to the president about his job.

they say they only raise it when he does. and they have such a perfect understanding among each other. really special backgrounds with a unique set of life experiences but it is almost like the understanding among that group is so perfect that sometimes as a journalist when i talk to them is like they couldn't believe that an outsider could understand them. it does become an issue in the presidency that the president and first lady are not reaching out a little more in washington. one thing i found surprising is that never had the clintons to dinner. a couple months ago when i last checked. obviously that is a complicated relationship for a lot of reasons. but it speaks to a fairly

introverted approach to the presidency. >> what is the relationship between barack obama and hillary clinton? you mentioned that the 50th birthday party you have a phrase that it had become warmer. warmer from what? >> the wave of people in the white house describes their relationship as two professionals on their best behavior. there's always a sense too that there really fraught relationship is actually between barack obama and bill clinton. especially if you are going to talk about barack obama's attack -- attention to politics. his objections to clinton, starting back in the 90s in chicago, he is a critic of clinton and the clinton ways of doing things and i think that is

part of why the relationship with rahm emanuel is difficult. it would be tempting to described it as these two totally different guys who work very well in some ways together and had some real complexity to their relationship but i think part of it is rahm emanuel was trained in the clinton white house. that is where he did it and does business and not how barack obama does business. >> want to see people in both administrations, who is smarter? they will answer i can tell you what they think. what about valerie jarrett? what is her role? >> it is complicated and fascinating. valerie jarrett is an old friend of the obamas from chicago. she is there mentor. she helped them get started politically in chicago and she made a transition as improbable

as the one the obamas did because she goes from being a real-estate executive in chicago, she had some city government experience to going and being a senior aide in the white house and the theme of this book in a way, what is public and what does private in the presidency, valerie captures how complicated it is. she is a senior adviser in the west wing and she has this outrage portfolio of her own and on the other hand she is one of the president and first lady's closest friends. she represents michele obama's dues in the west wing. she is also the highest level african-american in the obama senior circle and responsible for matters of race. this is true in the presidential campaign and the white house. she is a newcomer to national

politics and came from a different perspective. in my reporting i have seen tremendous -- some people in washington talk about valerie at the hangar on. i don't see her that way. i think she has given the president and first lady so much. she would run in front of a truck for them. she almost seems necessary to this transition they are going through. from 2004 for room 2008 their daily decisions are more than two people can deal with and she is helping them transition. but at the same time in the west wing she is constantly under suspicion because she is such a close friend and people are afraid that she is reporting back to the obamas, she doesn't, it is not clear where she fits in the system.

the thing i think about valerie's story that is important to remember is the president chose to bring her there. so there is this very tense blow up with robert gibbs and he is frustrated with michele obama and later says he misdirected and it is really valerie. part of the significance of that story is the president thought he could have a very non-traditional management structure. not only a traditional management structure but brought his best friend sort of into the equation. that becomes complicated for all of them. >> you mentioned how ambivalent they are about politics. some people in that white house are complete political creatures. do you think there is an invisible wall? is there an ambivalence between the ambivalent political creatures and the political animals they hired to do the

job? >> part of the answer to me is the change you have written about which is after the midterm elections we suddenly see this white house becomes so much more overtly political. not that they have ever not been political. we don't want to be naive about it but the president who early in the presidency as much as you wants to be authentic and do things his own way and have this vision for how he is going to be different from other presidents has become a more conventional politician. some of this comes out and out ways like the super bowl party, by the spring of 2010, believe me he is no longer watching the game, watching sporting or social events they have. the other thing is even the

teams he roots for a change. early in the presidency the first super bowl after the white house, pittsburgh steelers were playing. the above the steelers because of those great stories about the steelers and glory days of the 70s and the family that owns the steelers and campaigned for him in pennsylvania. it is a point of pride that he is a real sports fan and is not going to fine neutrality. two years later in the white house after he has been beaten up in the midterms that totally changed. he says he is going to remain neutral in the superbowl. kind of a gain and loss. on the one hand you see that he understand this is what it means to be president and if you don't want to trash somebody, an entire state's football team. but on the other hand there's something very appealing about the old barack obama who doesn't

want to give himself over entirely to this. >> a bunch of us sitting with some senior administration officials and obama comes in the middle. sort of a surprise that is routine and not a surprise at having this high-minded discussion about some policy and he says i am going to kick some ass. he is a very competitive person. the most competitive person i have never met. another thing not want to ask you about is he is one of the most confident people i think i have ever met. my joke is the word obama will be the unit of measuring self-confidence. he has 80 obamas or 120 one obamas. do you think that has maintained or do you reserve the same thing? >> part of the change we have seen is there are moments pretty

recently where that confidence has diminished. i am thinking of the debt crisis. there is inside reporting in the book about the fog the president wasn't that you saw on tv at these press conferences. the guy is so incredibly frustrated with what is happening and aides say that in meetings, he was upset about what happened about the triumph of the tea party and also -- i think has things have changed but over the summer it was hard for it and to deal with the loss of support from 2008 and beginning a campaign that felt so different. aides say he seemed kind of sad. and he felt really misunderstood. i think part of the question for 2012 that we are watching is can

he assimilate this and redo the original vision for what the obama presidency was supposed to be is gone now and he has to come up with a kind of affirmative vision of where you wants to take the country that is still realistic. realistic enough to be persuasive. >> do you see a process -- can't remember when you stopped reporting this but do you see that happening? >> i definitely think the whole we can't wait strategy has restored more all for the white house and a more coherent story than they were, especially economically. is clear they were buoyed by the weakness and confusion in the republican field. the hits that mitt romney has taken and the fact that they were beating up mitt romney behind-the-scenes has contributed to that.

but i haven't yet heard -- haven't yet heard him -- how many of you have? really articulate why he wents and other four years in a way that is truly stirring and convincing? >> they are thinking about it. i would almost filet punditry. i mean that as a complement. on this subject, i don't think they have achieved a message that = -- =s the hope and change message and they can't do that again. a couple more subjects. the microphone is here. one remarkable one is everyone who has any contact with their kids, absolute tremendous kids, untouched by all this. how have they done that? >> i think the sheer force of

michele obama's protective power does have a lot to do with it. she was always intensely committed to motherhood. even back in chicago, chicago friends say this was a mom who was sitting in a soccer stands gossiping. stood on the sidelines and said this is what is going on with malia's defensive footwork. almost everybody who runs for president and their spouses are much more competitive than the rest of us. and i think she has always been a pretty intense mom. but then i think when they want to start a campaign and the presidency, shea board the full

force of her conviction and personality into making sure their lives were structured and more more and this is where mary and robinson comes and, mary and robinson has refused every media, approach wanted to have her on and she said no. i like being able to anonymously go to the basement on connecticut avenue north of the white house, she said everybody there thinks i am just another layer old lady who works in the mansion. everybody thinks i am a housekeeper and in fact she is the first lady's mom. what i found in my reporting is in a way she has to do that because she is malia's ticket to freedom. their parents can't take him to get up [speaking in native tongue] in georgetown after school.

she is the person who can do that. >> that is highly disclosed. she has to go to a peak from now on. $4 for a shirt. wow we are on the subject one of the themes running through is michele obama's story is luxury. there's a question whether she should appear on the cover of vogue. the story you tell where she is at a soup kitchen and she is handing out -- $500 sneakers. who buys $500 sneakers? what is that about? is it something that is just fun? >> she says a couple things. what she said to me in chicago when her husband was starting to become famous and coming to washington is she would basically say if i have to go i

am getting a new dress out of it. and so i think the clothing is a compensatory pleasure that. if she has to do this this is one of her friend's hearts. it is armour. she has said looking good gives me confidence to go out in public life. and also she is so aware of the power of the image in a way i am not sure her husband is. she is highly attuned to both pressures and the possibilities of being the first african-american first lady. when she is against something so big when she had image problems in the 2008 campaign and she was being caricatured as an angry black woman, the advisers did do a little makeover on her and the one described it to me is they said we're just going to make her more like the mom on the cosby show. that line really struck me

because i said to myself wait a second, is this country -- are we so low on positive, warm, loving, accomplished images of african-american women that we have so few famous african american women who are not either sports or entertainment celebrities, they have to call mrs. cosby who is a fictional character and hasn't been on television for 25 years like this is the model they have to turn to. so mrs. obama, the vote story is about her wanting to represent and young girls in african-american woman on the cover of vogue. fascinating thing is robert -- not specifically the vogue thing but other things. robert gibbs was so concerned about that because he's all the

public resentment of the economy and became concerned about that. >> two more topics and we go to questions. equally shallow blue something always wondered about. you get as close as anybody i have read and this is about barack obama's action will basketball ability. you describe a game, his 49th birth day where he invites all these nba stars. i will tell the story because i love it. they put different all stars on different team the, combination of pro athletes and hangers on and lebron james was on the sea team saying i am on the sea team? who is on a and b? he allegedly -- barack obama, double wants these people to pal play as hard as he can. can he keep up at that level? a 15-year-old guy? >> he win the entire tournament.

>> that is not an answer. >> exact -- exactly. i think it goes -- remember the story you told a couple minutes ago about the time you were in the white house and the guys stood by the president for 15 seconds just to have the proximity? are people treating the president like a normal human being? can anybody forget that he was president? about that birthday party i asked michael to organize the game. i said what is the deal with him winning this entire thing? he is a good basketball player but come on. lebron james. look, it was the president's birthday, nobody was really playing as -- the hardest defense on him. >> reminds me of the story, john edwards when he was running may be the first time.

lee was from north carolina and north carolina won the national championship and that point guard for the team played in one on one and edwards told me i'd be him. no you didn't! you did not beat that guy! edwards actually believed him. that was the segway into the final subject which is a summation, really about the soles of people who are in this freakish circumstance. i will start with edwards. you and i met on a bus. john edwards's bust with elizabeth and their two kids. you were doing a similar story to this. there was a case -- what was weird about that episode and it was the second time he ran, the parent disappeared in the middle of the day, a couple days and the kids were left and i went bowling with them but there was the case where you say the

marriage was all about the public. maybe you disagreed. this seems to me this is what the obamas are trying not to be. if you could have some thought, summary thoughts on them and go to the floor on the soul of people under the brutality of politics, falseness of universal love, do you think their spiritual lives are still healthy? is there any religion in their spiritual lives? >> great question. religion like marriage is something that there has been a contest about whether it is a public or private thing. when barack obama first ran for president he put it out there. in 2006 he is making this speech and telling people he will be the democrat who can win over

evangelicals. how is he going to do that? he is going to write this book and title it after a sermon by his pastor named jeremiah right and we all know what happened, how that story ends. so religion is after jeremiah wright affair, something the obamas try to take back into the private sphere. something they discuss a little bit now but not much. they don't want to showcase the washington church that they are going to join. white house aide once said something that would stay with me. what he said was once you put some part of your personal life out there for people, what he meant is when you market it a little bit, can you ever take it back? is there ever -- can you ever truly pull it back into the private sphere?

what is so interesting about what is happening with the obama marriage is they're really putting it out in the public's fear because the president's presence of ratings are much higher than his handling of the economy and one of these things his advisers are resting 2012 on is the appeal of the obama union and the obamas have learned how to go out there together in public and do this public political performance together that has and authenticity but is also designed. you saw the meeting in the oval office, designed to earn votes. i don't know that i could answer definitively for them but you are asking exactly the right question, can something be shared with the world and use

for political gain. >> since i'm an opinion writer, that is fraught with peril of the second thing i will set -- [talking over each other] >> the repeal of reticence on the subject. the final thing i would say is when dwight eisenhower was last day in office, do the think the press corps has been fair to you and white eisenhower said i don't think there's anything reporter can do to hurt me. that is the right attitude. i am not sure about this president or the first president surf the web at night reading bloggers and the reaction of this book i am not sure that if the data they have taken. a complicated portrayal of the obama of marriage. let's go to the floor.

anyone want to come the two mics on the aisle? >> hi, jodi. how are you? very quick question. what do you think michele will allow barack to do after the presidency? >> that is a fantastic question and a real source of suspense because as she has discussed and there is more reporting on the book, quality has been a real issue in the obama marriage. the best question ever asked of either of them was in the oval office, my colleague helped me write this question, how is it possible to have an equal marriage when one person is president? you can read the answer in the new york times magazine but the president couldn't answer the question at the ended up saying actually my advisers care more about what michele thinks that

what i think. this is the clinton history too. that bill clinton after his presidency decided it was hillary's turn. i don't think michele obama will ever run for public office, if she ever run for public office, all of this stuff. it will be her turn to decide on that next future. >> i was reminded of one story. senior staff, on buckingham palace and george w. bush was bored and wanted to speak around the palace just to check it out. he said to this guy let's go out of here and look around. laura said don't you dare move. he had to decide do i obey the president or the first lady?

it was close. he stayed there. >> talk about barack obama's relationship rahm emanuel. he is on his third chief of staff. the ability to find the chief of staff, can really relate to. has that affected his ability to accomplish things? >> i think david has probably his own perspective on this issue and it would be -- haven't really talked about it. interesting to contrast it. the partnership was strategic from the beginning. there was never any pretense that these two were exactly like or had the same philosophies. but the president had an ambitious legislative agenda and chose rahm emanuel in order to pass it. the first couple of months -- the first nearly -- not nine

months of the presidency, when the legislation is moving ahead it worked pretty well. there are some managerial problems that rahm emanuel had. he can be quite abusive. that has a real effect in the white house. white house aides told me they didn't come to him because they were worried he would blow up at them. inhibiting effects on him as a manager. also in fairness there was not a clear management structure where everybody reported exactly to command upwards but the real stress comes around the time scott brown wins that seat because even though they squeaked health care through the obama presidency becomes less like this forward legislative drive and becomes something else. at the same time the midterm elections are coming up and that is tremendous stress on the

relationship because rahm emanuel has been the chair and his life's mission before he became chief of staff was getting them after congress especially in these competitive districts and keeping these people in congress and in the presidency you have a different agenda. you have got to make members of congress take hard votes. i mentioned immigration as a source of objective. one of the release for subject was the president really wanted to push for immigration reform even though there was no legislation on the table and that was a big problem for rahm emanuel in the summer of 2010 because he was acutely feeling these vulnerable democrats especially in border states so their relationship became complicated. david axelrod by the summer of

2010 fell rahm emanuel should be -- once he started to run for mayor of chicago the relationship improved. almost like the strain of the relationship was lifted somewhat. >> our long national nightmare of having a non-jewish chief of staff is over. going back to -- [laughter] >> given the setting i will set with a confession. i have not read your book yet. >> we're thrilled to be here. >> to comment on something i read or heard that you did not interview barack and michele. >> like every journalist for every story -- >> is that true? >> absolutely. i interviewed them a bunch of times over the course of writing about them and had the interview with them in 2009 and when i

started this project, i agreed with my publisher that i didn't know how much access we were going to get and i pushed for interviews throughout and they eventually said no. what i really found in the reporting is their friends and aides were able to tell all kinds of stories that presidents and first ladies don't tell. if you see the way michele obama gets interviewed yesterday with a real exception. usually she does a limited interview on a subject like childhood obesity for 20 minutes at a time. one thing i feel. i write profiles for the times and one thing i do believe in strongly is that you can't access journalism. meaning you can't let whether or not somebody will talk to you govern whether or not you're going to write about them because none of these candidates

for these leaders really want to talk to journalists that much anymore. fewer and fewer are giving interviews and they're giving interviews that are less in depth than they used to be. so you can't let the question of whether or not somebody will sit down with you for 20 minutes control the entire story. >> you touched on this earlier about how you were surprised at the white house reaction. i saw you on the today show. they haven't disputed any of the facts. but since then, they have especially with the halloween party, they didn't try to cover it up and they point to the media coverage of the party and what not. what is your response to that? >> the halloween party situation, the washington post did a story and they are two ago that was entirely correct.

get everything in the context in the fall of 2009 it was the first halloween in the white house and there was an outside component to the party that was pretty public. a lot of washington area school kids who were trick or treating and the president and first lady rivera and a full report. the thing they kept part was the party inside the white house. it was a pretty splashy party. they had tim burton and johnny depp doing their alice-in-wonderland thing. this was an area where the coverage has been distorted because the new york post made it sound like it was something for kids. they were trying to do a pretty nice thing. a lot of kids who were invited were kids that people serving in the military -- the white house was very nervous about anything that was seen as too hollywood and too splashy so they kept the

inside of the party very quiet. they didn't distribute photos. they didn't acknowledge the contributions. >> i think i read a white house blog that talked-about gossip in wonderland. a spokesperson -- >> they are responding -- new york post loved this story and went for it for days and days and published these really over the top pictures of the president as the mad hatter. i don't want to speak for the white house but remember they are focusing as much on that or more than what is in my desk. >> overreaction to the media? >> that is what dave said and what people have told me. that they are worried -- a

couple white house people told me they are less worried about my book itself and sort of the sensationalized coverage. >> i just want to announce three more. we will do one here. >> you spoke about kind of the transformation obama made to accepting the political side of things a little bit more and operating in that style more which is kind of at the same moment that his legislative agenda comes stalled. because of scott brown in the midterm elections and everything else. if he is reelected, do you see continued transformation continuing to happen? on the political side of things

do you think that can contribute to him being more effective publicly? he has been seen as weak compared -- do you think that transformation -- >> you are asking the right question because i think a very big question i have about this president is how creative his conception of presidential power is. we know what liberal presidential power is and he has lost some of that because of legislative and economic circumstances. so part of his challenge is to come up with a more expansive and creative and flexible sense of presidential power. that is part of why it -- this was an unexpected contrast i started developing with the first lady because the first lady doesn't have any official

power because she had to be extremely creative in a way in terms of the establishing influence over the public for herself. so i can't answer for you how he is going to do that but you are asking the right question. >> with this transformation you are talking about from being very personal and authentic to be more politicized and political as a person and as a politician, do you think the voters as they are today are going to be turned on by that ability to kind of take control or is it the ability to take control and may change? or is it going to alienate the young and apolitical voters who came to the forefront in his first time around? ..

political requirements but in a way like to say if it appeals to the people who found him to be an original and a unique voice in american political life. >> thank you.

i feel like everyone is trying to ask a question i wanted to ask so i hope this isn't clicking you repeat yourself but i wanted to ask about obama's political instinct because my impression of reading about him is he is very intellectual and got a law professor in how many approaches policy issues and issues about questioning what is the obama doctrine looking for the common thread policy lives and so i talk about how he approaches policy issues and particularly the relationship with politicized aides like rahm emanuel which might be looking to the political effect. >> the thing i saw about the immigration reform is about how frustrating the kind of irrationality the politics can be for him because the story in

the book is that he wants to give immigration reform of push around june 2010 he gets a speech in july and he thinks it is a terrible idea for the reason i mentioned that he wants it to happen and what only a series of problems for him that there is a serious kind of problem in the world that has a very rational solutions on the table but the solutions are not happening for political reasons. there has been a consensus in the country for pretty much ten years about what is basically a reasonable solution would be to fixing our integration box system basically revamp the system so it's more fair and less capricious and you do better enforcement but also allow people a legal way in and

a lot of republicans have agreed on that in the past as well, but it's not happening for political reasons and another example that is totally different is i think the israeli-palestinian conflict because the same way there has been a road map for peace in the conflict on the table for ten, 20 years now. every that he basically knows what. it's not happening and it's not happened the talk about on tv i think it's really hard for him because he's such an analytical person and he sees this, the solution to these problems is no mystery yet somehow we can't make it happen. >> okay. thank you. the book is the obamas and the

author is faugh -- jodi kantor triet [applause] to find out more information about the author, visitor website, jodikantor.net. c-span2 needed 801 ducks covered on booknotes to george mason university located just outside of washington, d.c.. the university is currently cataloguing the collection at the fenwick library. booknotes an hour-long interview program interviewed host yy brian lamb to the lesson for. the gm university library in shows us the collection entitled beyond the book. >> in the mind of brian, this

book is the genesis of all of the booknotes program c-span. bye writing this book he decided he'd wanted us to interview the author and the idea of booknotes it would be worthwhile for him to read a lot of books and talk to the offers mac. >> 801 total episodes of booknotes and this was the first official booknotes; correct? >> exactly. brzezinski of course was the chair of the security council for the carter administration. >> john zenelis when you pick the books to go into the case is who picks them? >> several of my colleagues in the special collection center

area. they made this election of several books to be highlighted and they made the annotations accompanying each of the display items, and they chose to select a question to ask on the booknotes televised program by brian lamb and then produced the answer, the response provided by the author for that question. >> here again in the ben franklin but you can see a lot of notes taken while reading the book. when you put these books in the cases did you look for varying points of view like how c-span does in general? >> exactly so. i already mentioned one of the criteria was to reflect the book perspective involved in booknotes and that is the point.

there are various subjects covered in the 801 looks and certainly in many points of view of from the political perspective and the humanistic perspective, all kinds of perspectives. >> is this archive available for scholars are the public as well? >> it is beginning to become available. library staff are in the process of cataloguing the collection. we are about 40% throughout this point. for the titles that have already been cataloged they are available to any student faculty member here at the university, and of course because this information is accessible through the world wide web to scholars in the united states and abroad. >> so you leaving, george mason website at some point?

>> yes, certainly. >> we've seen some of the books on display here but you've also got posters throughout the library year and i want to start with this one right here. this is from the booknotes interview boundaries was her book. what are we looking at year? >> to pieces of paper, one is a page from the writing pad that has brian lamb's notes about the book and then we have an envelope from a bill that looks like, verizon, where he also has made additional notes including some personal information in naples for the item stand and henry was the first person that employed by unprofessionally in a professional capacity, so it

shows that brian lamb maintained relationships throughout his life with his early mentors. >> let's continue. let's look at the full collection if we could come in and again we've got posters throughout. >> the purpose of the posters is to connect this part of the exhibit to the other part of the exhibit, which is the off third building of this building complex. >> can the public come through here and see these books? >> yes, most definitely. in the other part of the exhibit which is outside our special collection center our criteria here we have three display cases containing the material from the books collection. in this particular case it's not just the books, but we also have

what we consider an archive part of the collection and it is john coltrane and giant steps music, part of the music. >> mr. zenelis, to all of the books have notes such as this one that we have here? >> it varies. i am a stand from brian originally he was not making innovations within the books themselves, he was making notes separately. he has maintained some of those notes but not all of them. later on as the program

progressed, he started making notes in the books themselves. >> in the long term wilson and fatta being open as it is now? to the air and the light? >> all physical materials overtime deteriorated, however, we in the libraries especially and special collections in archives we have a special environmental condition to preserve paper and anything that is written on paper, so under proper care, this writing should last for centuries. this particular book can only be used on site in the special collection center archives to which we will be going leader. however, we have other copies

available in the general collection all of the libraries are available for circulation. >> notes from one of the books why did this one get blown up? what was special about this one? >> we'll understand that it is one of the favorite authors of lyon, and as you can see from he has written in this particular book and that is why we chose it because of the significance to the author. >> you have a letter to brian from betty friedan. >> i recommend marking the book we consider for booknotes and i should point out that the late

professor was a professor here at george mason university and in fact this case contains another book by eight mason professor which is by the way the only fiction book to be highlighted in the booknotes program. >> hear the rest of the 800 books, correct? >> correct, and these books are shelved in the order that they were in brian lamb's office at c-span and also they are in the order of the televised programs. >> so, beginning here except for the ones taken out and you have little notes here -- >> the exhibit volumes the long in this arrangement. >> so th