any sense and ultimately decided that we would be a healthier state, a safer state if we moved in that direction with respect to service employees and that's exactly what we did. >> and the cost to the state? >> item believe there ultimately is a cost to the state. the idea that people are going to abuse the program simply because it exists really is not supported by the data. >> thank you. thank you very much and just quickly governor snyder, do you agree that the federal government plays a role in helping improve the economy? do the feds not help the auto industry in michigan? >> well the auto industry was a unique circumstance and that was successful and i asked that earlier so i appreciate the question. what i would say is one of the things holding back our economy very clearly talking to any michigan employer is the challenge of dealing with the federal deficit here and that is

an issue that needs to be resolved because as a former businessperson myself a number one thing you want from government is confident to know what you're dealing with and if you don't know what the rules are you are not going to take on new risk. this is a risk sitting out there for all of our employer so i really encourage washington to address that issue because that is holding back job creation in our state are ghosts be absolutely. >> the gentlelady's time has expired. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for both of you being here today. i am really interested in your comments and your job connection program. being one of the companion bills along with my bill, the question i have is what kind of response do you get to the idea you are going to have a --

[inaudible] i represent the bad and we have the dubious distinction of having the highest unemployment rate in the nation driven by construction jobs lost over the last several years but we had a field hearing out in las vegas and i asked one of the local economist what they thought about the 70,000 jobs and would they ever come back? his answer was no. we will never be back to that -- and next on the panel as a representative of one of the trade unions and the asset gentleman what he was doing to prepare his members for the jobs that will exist since the job that did exist is not coming back and the answer was we need to spend more money on infrastructure. so what did you do differently in michigan to get the volume moving people from what did exist to what will exist? >> i appreciate the question

representative and i appreciate your sponsorship along with several other members with the ideas of putting metrics into workforce investment and i clearly support that. it's an ongoing process. a lot of it is getting the facts out to people and i will go back to an illustration i mentioned earlier about a welder being a job that if you're welder you can get a job in michigan and how many people knew that? the other part is if you go to the average parent or average student or someone in the workforce do they actually know what a welder does? to the actually know how much a welder makes? do they actually know where welding program is? the answer is no so that is why this portal concept at am i talent.org is so important because we are putting those career tools on there and encouraging people to get the facts. one question that is really interesting if you go back to the auto illustration the auto industry is hiring and they are actually concerned about having

enough work worse for the future but now they have to get over the perception that you don't want to be in the auto industry because it goes through difficult financial times and if you want a job in an auto plant nowadays you can't simply just been coming out of high school and going to work. quite often you need to go to community college and get a couple of years of technical training to work on the floor of an auto plant today so those are all kinds of things that are an ongoing process but i'm proud to say i think we are leading the country and being proactive and that is why in courage workforce development is great but it's not enough. talent, the three c's, connecting collaborating and creating. >> and a any similar efforts in connecticut for getting to the jobs that may have existed in connecticut? >> by the way i agree with the governor on this point as i have on many of the points he has made. in our bipartisan jobs though we actually allocated funds to take an award-winning program at one of our community colleges, which

has been in existence, this program for 12 years training precision manufacturing and returning folks who may have lost their jobs and lower lever on manufacturing to be in precision manufacturing with a 98 to 100% replacement rate on completion of that probe ramp at what i found when i became governor set program had not been replicated in any other the committee colleges in the state and our bipartisan jobs program we passed and i referenced in my prior testimony, we are going to replicate that program and three additional community colleges with operating dollars and we are going to replicated in three of our vo-tech school so we will graduate people from high school or community college is who will be prepared to take those precision manufacturing jobs. why that connection was never made i don't understand that i want to make one quick point on that. one of the reasons i consolidated our community colleges of which we have 12

with our four regional universities within the state and our on line university is to make sure that our higher educational program in the state of connecticut is more responsive to the needs of the companies, startups and long-term companies that are finding it difficult to get the right talent matched set and so i think both the governor and i are working on that program having identifying it as a tremendous need. we have thousands of purposes and manufacturing jobs in connecticut right now as we speak. i hope that will not be the case in a relatively short period of time and that is why we are putting so much emphasis on rebuilding and redirecting our community college program. >> thank you both and i greg -- congratulate you on your program. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. hinojosa. >> thank you chairman. i am pleased to see such a distinguished first panel of

governors here for our committee discussion on job creation. today, i want to urge my colleagues to work in a bipartisan manner on a jobs agenda that creates jobs at home, educate our young adults and reignites the american dream. i certainly support this last discussion you had on supporting the federal investment bank and community colleges. as you know u.s. congress has not reauthorized -- which we passed in 1998. i think that is shameful. governor malloy in your testimony you urged us to reauthorize it. this is question as to governor malloy. what are your top three priorities that we and congress should look at to reform we and

improve the job training program for the next five years? >> it's an important program that connecticut has used quite effectively so i'm not here to criticize the program. what i'm saying is we have done the right thing. we have used the dollars to train and continue to train folks to take positions that they were formerly unqualified for. we have an award-winning program around the employment of veterans which is a special concern again on how many veterans are returning from the two wars we have been engaged in. i am sure that this committee is capable of making that a stronger and better law but i again will reiterate that it needs to be sustained. flexibility is okay as long as flexibility is not coupled with a reduction in the funds that are made available. i think both governors, the governor of michigan and myself are capable of directing those funds to be properly spent at our states and we have both

identified a common problem we recognize so i would really urge the committee to get its job done and let's get a law and let's make sure that those dollars are flowing to our state so we can put people back to work to train them properly. >> you need to know that in the 13 years that we have operated with that 1998 act, we saw lack of accountability and we saw that in some areas, some areas of the country the real money they got used 60% of it for fixed costs, administration, all sorts of fixed expenses and only 40% or less was used for training of the adults, so i think that needs to certainly be reformed and that we could put a cap to say 40% or less are the

fixed expenses and have 60% for actual training. but you mentioned returning veterans and i am pleased because i agree with you that we must do everything possible to assist these veterans in acquiring good jobs and careers with so many of them that have come back from iraq and then a few will start coming back from afghanistan. we really need your thoughts on how you plan to reduce the unemployment rates for our veterans in your state. >> well i am sure the governor and i both agree that this is an important societal issue. people are returning from the two wars and deployment. in many cases with very good skill sets but again those skill sets may not match what is needed, so we need to make it affordable and easy for our returning service personnel to

access brogue ramps and our community colleges, certificate programs or programs that will qualify for degrees and we actually just need to make a special effort. are labor department and and and our state is doing that. i've asked all of my commissioners to be mindful of that. we are talking to all of our private and public universities to make sure they understand this is a special obligation that we owe to the people who have served us. >> i agree with you. let me ask a question of governor snyder. you know we are very concerned about our young teenagers and young adults, especially latinos and african-american. their unemployment rate is so very very high. what are you doing in your state to address that problem and that group so that they can get jobs? >> that is a very timely question because we are doing our budget next week and that will be included.

you are right on in terms of saying particularly our young people in our urban areas, we need to do something so part of our view is let's put a focused effort on that. one area in particular that i think has worked on is the concept of supply chain analysis and that is an illustration of asking our current larger employers to say food you buy from? who do you work with and there are opportunities to make things work. one illustration we use is the simple lottery. we have a very large health care community in metro detroit that does kind of a lottery. we actually found some of them actually have their lottery done out of state. why are there opportunities to create organizations that would be very good at employing entry type positions to create jobs right in some of these communities so on one of those ways again it's not about the government got us playing that core dating recess -- resource to say can we work with their supply chain analysis.

we created a -- but to put that in challenge syria's. >> i want to be sure that you are alone the same page with us that they african-american young teenagers and young adults and the hispanic are the two that have the highest unemployment rates and we have got to focus those efforts that you just gave us on being able to address them >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. ross. >> thank you mr. chairman. speaking of economic development i want to thank governor snyder because my hometown is lakeland. we are at the time a year now where your constituencies migrate to my area for economic purposes and i thank you for that. to both governors, the nlrb decision and especially in the health care case allows for the creation of many unions of lifetime vocations that are now

unionized as well as the nlrb promulgation of rules that expedite the voting for unions for 90 days to 14 days. these are significant impacts are organized labor and i think it would have significant impacts on job creators. my question to both governors and i will start with you mr. snyder is do you support the nrl pm how will they if they happen have an impact as a job creator? >> one of the challenges, would be much like some of the other issues, i view it as creating devices because all you do is create an environment where people are in conflict and we shouldn't be wasting time on things where we will get into conflict. we waste too much time on arguing about things rather than finding common ground in solving problems. >> do you see any reason to change the program? >> my view is let's find areas where we agree on. can listen to the testimony here you hear about infrastructure areas. workforce development, showing results. let's find again let's find

common ground solutions where we agree, solve our problems and work closer together. we have a lot of things to work on before we get into place. >> you now i just want to say that i believe the right to unionize is actually guaranteed by our constitution and taking steps to allow individuals to come together for the purposes of collective bargaining should not be seen as evil. just as -- >> i agree but in terms of changing the status quo would that not negatively impact the job creation? >> if you look at the history of this discussion, there was a movement around card check which was not successful. card check came about because of the frustration of folks who would want to become organized but once they got to a point where an election was to be held there was no timeliness and the holding of that election or of that vote, so anything that would speed the vote taking place i think actually works in the favor of the work

environment to get a yes or no. >> so you have no problem in expediting it to 14 days? >> i think expediting process -- [inaudible] >> the gentleman from south carolina talked about the right to work state or movement. quite frankly connecticut's unemployment rate as i sit here today is lower than south carolina's and we have a more unionized workforce so i think that people will make an argument around their beliefs, but not always substantiated by the facts. >> both governors you have the requirement for a balanced budget don't you in michigan and connecticut? >> all states do. >> i agree with you and something else we have on the federal and state level and local level of course is pensions and i do address this

governor malloy in your opening statement and i appreciate that was making reforms. is your pension plan and connecticut a defined benefits plan are defined contribution plan? is that something that needs to be changed to make sure there's an opportunity to take sure it's fully funded? >> state government had honored its commitment and properly funded the program over a period of time i would not have inherited a program that was -- >> but they cannot funded and is that not indicative of the fact that it was not proper measures taken because i will see going to fund these? >> i fundamentally disagree that the defined benefit programs are by definition evil. >> i'm not saying it's evil, i'm saying it's a burden on your state in terms of funding. >> they do require a discipline in the and the absence of that discipline or and since one of my predecessors had negotiated language that did not require

the pension plan to be funded on a true actuarial basis and in fact in my opening remarks and in my testimony i point out that we would have had a $4.4 billion balloon payment on that pension obligations negotiated by one of my predecessors. obviously that is wrong. >> i see my time is running out. i certainly believe in states rights and i think that's important. there is a measure recommended by the president's commission the simpson-bowles commission which illuminates all corporate tax luke -- loopholes and would reduce tax rates to a flat 20%. i believe someone thing like that would not be in economic incentive but allow states to leveraged use tax policy to compete with other states for economic development. heidi both feel about that? >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. tierney. >> mr. chairman as you chino governor deval patrick of massachusetts was invited to testify that was an adult i get

i would ask enhancements and that is written testimony be allowed on the record. >> governor snyder in particular i noted governor patrick's written testimony. he has a quote in there that -- comes from investment in octets in the government must do its part to help businesses help themselves and he goes on to talk about massachusetts, 47 the job creation 2006 and now even during the last couple of years the recession has gone to whiff on that. he is proud that students lead the nation overall achievement in both math and science and really the nation in massachusetts and health care coverage covering over 98% of the people on that basis, eliminated a structural problem on deficit and has a higher bond rating than they ever had in massachusetts on there and. adding 45,600 private-sector

jobs in massachusetts and an employment rate dropped to 6.8% alone what he says is his strategy building on investments and reforms weather was pension or health care in those areas. he talked about the recovery act, allowing him to maintain his commitment to education and his commitment to innovation where he put a billion dollars over 10 years into life sciences and a quarter billion dollars into clean energy, was able to work with applied research issues in infrastructure on that. but i noted in looking at michigan.gov you don't take a backseat to much of that and you have done well with your recovery funds. your previous governor said 54,000 jobs were created and i noted that you have actually in may of last are made out of the fact that there was a serious investment in your rail in michigan and accelerated rail service has the ability to enhance our economy environment and overall quality of life and

an investment of that magnitude has spurred economic development in the communities and you are able to say was critical to michigan's recovery. do you agree with that? >> yeah, actually give a message calling for $1.4 billion of additional investment in transportation infrastructure in our stay. the one thing that goes with that because one of the challenges is, it is a difficult economic environment, a lot of our citizens don't believe we have demonstrated best practice and how we are deploying those dollars so one of the things that goes along with that is us being more prudent about showing that. web metrics and we have measures and we are being held accountable and we are being transparent in those features but they go together. >> i also noted in the recovery act $1.35 billion in advanced battery grants and michigan claims to be the leader in automotive batteries. does that still hold true? >> what i was in a better credit is it was dumb and i was -- when i got there.

using tax credits at the state level in particular. to go to the earlier representatives comments we redid our tax system to make it fair and efficient so we have wiped out almost all tax credits we offered to corporations and eliminated a tax that was on unincorporated and put in a flat 6% corporate income tax and my belief is that will be a better job greater than having the michigan business tax which was the dumbest tax in the united states. speedy recovery act monies he put towards the advanced battery grants, does that still remain in these? >> that is in use. again, they are there. i hope they succeed. it's great to have them in michigan but one thing when i looked at the budget this year and i have a budget for the next several years i just started at minus $500 million in the hole to cover those costs. >> how many teachers do you think you are able to retain on the payroll and the various cities and towns as a result of the recovery act money for education? >> i view that is speculation

because the question again and this is the way i felt about the dollars to many respects is too often we use those property costs as opposed to good capital investments that were one-time dollars we could have put into long-term while at the same time adjusting cost structures because we now shown we can adjust those cost structures, be more efficient and get that her service to our customers and actually hopefully provide better education. >> well, what i would say it specifically in a budget that i inherited prior to the administration is $270 million to cover a cut to local government in support of local local -- education pre-k-12 in the state of connecticut. that $270 million if i had not cover that in reworking the budget and addressing the $3.5 billion deficit would have led to a loss of thousands and thousands of jobs of teachers,

administrators and paraprofessionals in our school system. our school systems so let me assure that has been one of my highest priorities to make sure we bridge that gap which is another way of saying its money to keep teachers employ. >> the gentleman's time has expired. ms. biggert. >> thank you mr. chairman, thank you for holding this hearing and thank you for being here. governor snyder i certainly share your frustration with a highly-skilled international students who have gone through our schools and i call it the brain drain. reverse brain drain in that they are having to go home due to creativity and innovation we need in those foreign countries rather than remain here. i hope that we will, congress will put aside partisanship and really work out a way to keep them here. but i am also very concerned about our students and why they

aren't meeting the requirements that we think they should and particularly i think most of my colleagues and i really think that the stem education is really important. we need to find a way to get more students interested in that and in one of the studies that gathering storm that the national academy put out saying we need to have creativity and innovation if we are going to be competitive in the global economy. i don't think we are when we see -- finland is the number one school in the area and i think the united states ranks 24th but it is very low. we need to do something about that. you talked about the significant lack of college students in michigan in the stem type programs.

why do you think that has happened? >> it comes back to the concept of accountability and measurement and student growth. what i said clearly in michigan and we have that education reform this last year because it needed to be done. we spend a lot of money there but we are not getting outcomes that are acceptable. only 17% of our kids are college-ready. if you go to our community colleges about 60% of the kids have to take a remedial class before they are qualified to take an entry-level class. that is a travesty and a lot of that if you look at it there's not enough emphasis on student growth and is not just about standardized test. my view is the student should have a portfolio that travels with them that they can really be assessed in our goal is not to create competition between districts but the measure we want to have in michigan is to say what do we need to do to create an environment where we can measure to see that each and every student is getting at least one years worth of education that each and every

year and then giving them some of these other tools showing them where careers actually are because most parents and kids think of doctor, lawyer, teacher nurse all the standard things but how many people thought about being a marketing person or an accountant or a computer programmer where the jobs are? that is where we need collaboration to work together so that is why i talk about talent -- >> when would you start it? preschool, kindergarten? >> a re-characterize it. i don't use the term early childhood k-12 and community college, i call it be 20. our goal is prenatal through lifelong learning and we have erected barriers in silos to make it difficult for these kids to go through our system that are mainly artificial constructs of either money or old institutions and lack of innovation and so we are working hard on creating a seamless system for people.

recall it anywhere, anyplace, anytime anywhere that you get your education and it's a great opportunity. cyberlearning in particular married with traditional education done right is a huge opportunity. >> i would agree with the governor. that is exactly what were doing and connecticut as i appear before you. we need a seamless system and we need to make it easy for people to acquire the skill sets necessary for our corporations and employers to succeed. i do want to join your comments with respect to the ability to retain talent in this country really is a travesty that we are not retaining that talent once we have educated here and have people who expressed the desire to remain here be part of our filling a void that currently exists. i do want to also say that i think we need to speak to our young people differently about what it takes to be successful in the world. we have precision manufacturing jobs in both of our states that

pay in excess of $100,000 that we were unable to pay those. if children is a they want to be a pilot someday but we don't explain to them that is going to require stem skills. we need to have a different conversation from our earliest moments but certainly from the time a child arrives in our school system and we need to help direct those young people to areas that are going to lead to full employment. we have not done that and that is why it we have the structural deficit with respect to the skill set or the talent said necessary to match the employment needs that are country currently has. we can't do that rapidly enough to fill that void. it's one of the reasons we are in fact getting a credit to new hires or for new hires because we in the state understand that not having done a good job in training replacement workforce, it it is in our best interest to subsidize an employer being engaged in that training. >> i thank you vote.

>> the gentlelady's time has expired. mr. all my are. >> governor malloy and governor snyder thank you for being here. we all realize it is a difficult time and there is a budget season coming up and you will be called upon to make very difficult decisions as we are here in this congress. i wanted to revisit this difficult decision we had to made governor snyder which you have addressed a couple of times now and you mentioned it in response to mr. tierney's leshin for the need for employing taxpayer dollars and how critically important that is. in answering the question earlier you emphasize your support for paying attention to the deficit in making sure we are reducing the deficit. i supported the balanced budget. i voted for it when it was on the house floor and i think it was the right decision but we do occasionally have to make extraordinarily difficult decisions on allocating federal resources, one of which was the auto recovery plan and you have

talked about it a couple of times but i just wanted to get your sense and thinking about whether or not was that an appropriate use of taxpayer resources? did this congress do the right thing and promoting the auto recovery plan? >> yeah. as i mentioned representative already that in many respects it wasn't about one individual company. it was actually the entire auto industry that was in jeopardy and that would have been a major catastrophe for our country. the solution was successful and it's great to see the success of the auto industry. in hindsight you can go back to say the credit in other ways to do it that would have been more efficient. i don't waste time on that analysis. would the par we should be proud about is the auto industry that we have and when to be supportive of that but that's a point about making sure they have the right skilled skill traits to succeed. that is why i'm excited to testify here today as is they have a major talent question and workforce development is not a good enough answer. we need to do a better job of

collaborating in connecting with an. >> i appreciate it and i asked the question once again and asked this question to both of you. a couple of decisions we are going to have to make in short order deal with the extension of unemployment insurance and transportation and infrastructure on federal highway bill's. starting with unemployment insurance, can i ask the governor malloy and then governor snyder how important is that to your individual states that gets done? what is your opinion of what we should do and if it does not get extended what would be the impact? >> let me begin with a quick answer. if it is not extended 51,000 people will be without benefits in the state of connecticut and by february that number will grow to 71,000 by august. would have an extremely detrimental effect on our state's economy and it might need a destroying of relationships, of homes, apartments and houses to be

lost. i urge you to address this issue as rapidly as you can. i can imagine being one of those 51,000 people in my state who is on the verge potentially of losing that benefit, the sole benefit that keeps family and home together. and obviously the loss of purchasing power of 51,000 people in my state would be reflected in all aspects of commerce in our state. we have an extraordinarily for our state high unemployment number at 8.2% and even having fallen by over 1% in the past year. but we are may can progress. there is a better day ahead of us, but to suddenly cut 51,000 people or 71,000 by august i think would actually slow the recovery vary substantially. >> what i would say is i don't believe it's really appropriate for me to make that call in many

respects. there are so many good things. you can go and officially take one of these things and make a good argument that the challenge is to prioritize because we need to be like a family where we don't have unlimited resources so the challenge isn't to say they are all good things but what has to be done and what do we have to give on and that is why encourage congress to work with the administration to come up with a solution. when i had a $1.5 billion deficit we partnered with the legislature on making tough calls. we may tough cuts to programs that in many respects as for sacrifice from people and at the same time i'm proud to say we stood firm on medicaid reimbursement and added dollars to child services. the other things we cut were probably good things but we had to do our job in a difficult circumstance and i encourage everyone to work collectively to make that happen. >> thank you mr. chair. >> i thank the gentleman. i'd thank you both governors for

your time in your testimony and answering our questions and sometimes ray answering the question. i applaud your efforts in trying to connect education and job training to the jobs that are out there and governor snyder he used the word talent. i think the word talent has been bubbling up here all over the place in the three c's with both of you trying to make that connection where we have seen broken frankly all across the country. we have held hearings in pennsylvania and new york and nevada as dr. hacks that and so often what we hear is that they community colleges, that for-profit colleges, the universities are not connecting with where the jobs are and what businesses need. you have both address that issue and we will continue to look at that and again i thank you both very very much and we will look forward to talking to you again and we will ask the second panel to come forward.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> is now my pleasure to introduce our second panel of witnesses, ms. kellie johnson is the president of ace clearwater industries a company of 210 employees to build complex

assemblies for the aerospace and power generation industries. ms. johnson serves on the board of the national association manufactures and as the chair of the national association of manufacturers small and medium manufacturers group and she also serves as a member of the u.s. department of commerce manufacturing council. dr. jared bernstein said senior fellow at the center on budget policy priorities. prior to this position he served as chief economist and economic adviser to vice president biden and was a member president obama's economic team. before joining the ovonic administration dr. brin seems a senior economist and the director of the living standard program at the economic policy institute in washington d.c.. between 1995 and 1996 he held the post of deputy chief economist at the u.s. department of labor or the doctor bernstein holds a ph.d. in social welfare from columbia university. dr. matthew mitchell is a senior research fellow with economics

at that mercatus at george mason university. his primary just and good economic freedom and economic growth, government spending, state and local fiscal policy, public choice and institutional economics. dr. mitchell currently serves on the joint advisory board of the economist for the commonwealth of virginia. dr. mitchell received his ph.d. and his masters of arts in economics at george mason university. he received his undergraduate degrees in political science and economics from arizona state university and i have no idea what those school colors are so we will move on. before i recognize each of you to provide your testimony let me again explain our lighting system. i think most of you have been here before. it's a green yellow red system. green when you start, yellow when you have one minute left and read when you're five minutes or it. please try to wrap up your testimony when you see that red light to sort of finish your thoughts and then we will go as we did before through members and have a chance to ask

questions. so, we will start, going in the same direction, ms. johnson you are recognized. >> thank you chairman kline and distinguished members of the committee. i greatly appreciate the invitation to participate in the hearing today. as chairman kline mention i'm kellie johnson president of ace clearwater industries. we manufacture complex components for the aerospace and power generation industry at three locations in southern california. the company was started by my grandfather more than 60 years ago and we employed over 200 of the best men and women in our industry. today i would like to discuss the issues that are facing the small and medium manufacturers in the united states, and as a manufacture i was heartened by the considerable inferences president obama put on manufacturing and competitiveness in a state of the union address. clear to make good on president

obama's pledge to make america the best place on or do business and the premier location for manufacturing investment we must take immediate action to reclaim manufacturing as the foundation of the american economy. when jobs are the number one issue on everyone's mind, we know that manufacturing is a solution. to catalyst that generates american jobs across many industry sectors. we know it is what helped create and sustain the middle class and it's a hard-working engine that drives our economy that but manufacturing is of american competitive -- it's more expensive to do business in the united states then it is compared to our nine major trading partners. 20% more expensive and that excludes labor. ..

and factors that were operating in a hostile work environment with the overreach at the nlrb and the epa we need a positive message from washington manufacturing is at a pivotal point in the country's history especially for the small and medium manufacturers that make up the supply chain. as an aerospace supplier, we operate in an environment where tightly integrated supply chains

need to be the reality. we've become interpol partners not just suppliers in the value chain but increasingly my customers will migrate to places that care about manufacturing and were the most robust infrastructure and supply chain exists to conduct their business. the uncertainty of the regulatory and economic environment makes it almost impossible. for short our long-term growth especially for the capital-intensive industries like manufacturing as manufactures we know firsthand board regulations are challenging, time-consuming, redundant and change a lot. taxes, fees, mandates and regulations are currently enacted without considering the accumulative and dynamic impact. the more unpredictable the business environment, the less likely it would be a competitive place to do business we need stable policies to create jobs and remain competitive. clearwater last year spent

$250,000 on compliance costs, environmental compliance costs in addition to over $40,000 in consulting fees. we of more than 42 labor laws that we comply with that have their own set of compliance standards as well which requires us to use it for the party administrators on many of our programs can't to retain legal services that amount to more than $52,000 annually. and i mention all of this because the compliance cost for small business is about 125% more than it is for large companies. we do not have the of the images of the economy of scale so there for our costs are disproportionately higher. the reality of the costs are driving innovation out of the supply chain because we are doing all we can just to stay in business. innovation as we know in the global economy is a strategic must. if we lose our ability to innovate we lose the ability to

manufacture and without manufacturing, innovation is just a good idea. as manufactures we've been running hard for the past decade to stay competitive. we've cut the cost from the supplies to our energy usage and leaned across the seas and we have made huge investments in people and technology. over the last eight years we've invested more than a million dollars each year and a people, facilities and equipment and during that time many states like california, my own state left a large percentage of their industrial base and around and i this is a reputation. my concern is as california goes, so goes the rest of the country. our utility costs are 50% higher. we've lost 33 of our industrial base over the last decade and the home of a for the united states no longer has an zero e and headquartered there. but i believe that government can play an extremely important role along with businesses shading the competitiveness of

manufacturing. we recently released to manufacturing renaissance, the four goals for economic growth, and i believe we can find common ground on how to achieve the goals in order to lower the cost of doing business in the united states and because more competitive. i see that my red light is almost on so i will make it short. i want to end by saying in my written testimony, i have many ideas and suggestions for improvements going forward and i guess you please to take a look at those and that we need to bring the rationalization and balance to the minute doctrine because our competition is global, relentless and unforgiving. but we are resilient, tough, innovative and driven to succeed if we act with a common purpose to fuel innovation and rebuild our industrial base we will ensure american manufacturing remains the best in the world today 64, and all of your written testimony will be included in its entirety in the

record. >> chairman klein, a ranking member miller, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify applaud you for holding this hearing on the issue that matters to most americans right now, opportunity, jobs and the standards of the broad middle class committed the current economy continues to expand in the real gdp terms as has been the case since the second half of 2009. employment growth turned positive in march 2010 and since then the private sectors added $3.2 million on the net. as my submitted testimony shows the rate of gdp contraction and job losses diminish shortly after the intervention of both the federal government through the recovery act and the federal reserve for monetary stimulus. moreover, the nonpartisan research has shown that the government has had a reserve policy that played an integral role yet while the economy is moving in the right direction and developed in the recent month the unemployment rate fell by -- it did fall buy almost one kucinich point over the past

year from 9.4 to 8.5%. the and leningrad rid of the expansion is still too slow to deliver the middle class families the economic opportunities the need to meet their family budgets much less to get ahead. moreover given the importance of restoring the middle class economic prosperity, we must recognize the group itself is necessary sufficient. gdp productivity growth alone has not sufficiently lifted the income and living standard of the middle class kid in the business cycle expansion of 2,000 productivity grew 19%, real gdp grew 18%, the real income of the middle class working age households actually fell in the real terms. a middle class income trends are favorable in the 1990 says the median incomes of the households increased 10% and an additional $5,600 in today's dollars. employ years at about 23 million jobs over the 1990's in the 5.5 million over the 2000 cycle. i raise this comparison here for

a few reasons. in 2000 the policy makers aggressively adopted the supply-side trickle-down measures characterized by large tax cuts favored and the wealthy, deregulating the assumption that financial markets would self more mature and persistent budget deficits even during the expansion. today, such supplies it trickled on aretas are resurgent despite the evidence noted above. once tempted to recall the out monition of those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. fiscal and tax policies or especially different in the 1990's as the taxes were raised on the wealthy and cut for the worst among us and the fiscal budget achieved the multi-year surpluses for the first time since the 1950's. the trickle down to the regulatory agenda what i call yoyo economics, you're on your own, presume that it starts of the top of the wealth scale and troubles down to those of the metal and the bottom of the scale. there is a much better theories suggesting that to generate robust lasting and blog shared

grief and economically strengthen the middle class is essential. in my written testimony come on a present evidence to this effect. let me use the rest of my time however to talk about policy that helps in this regard. every one of the policy areas of the dimensions of which compliment my colleague ms. johnson's idea or arguments that members of the committee can use to help reduce the security come pushback on the equality and improve the mobility of the middle class to read extended the payroll tax holiday on the unemployment insurance. policy makers of both parties have widely agreed on the need for this release to the end of the year and the failure to provide it would add to the underlying fragility of the nation's expansion to investing in the infrastructure. it's my understanding that the bill to repair and modernize the nation's public schools and community colleges will soon come to the floor of both chambers. this is called fast, fix

american schools today. it addresses three big problems, the law of the maintenance repairs and strapped school districts across the nation, high unemployment among the construction workers and other laborers who do this type of work, the energy efficiency in many public schools where the billions of taxpayer dollars are wasted through bad ruling could aging boilers and poorly insulated windows. i urge legislators to give this idea a close look. in a factor in policy as my colleague has mentioned some skills enhancement which is what a large part of the earlier conversation improving workers' bargaining power. as with the international trade taxation the union organizing is tilted against those to exercise of their right to collectively bargain. the recent rule change by the national labor relations board will help workers who petition to form the union to have a more timely election. in a climate where employers can and do block them with in tnt this removes itself.

your urge the committee to the policies that to relieve the atomic prez brigety of the american middle class with the productivity and growth they themselves are helping to generate. thank you. [applause] thank you, dr. mitchell, you are recognized. >> good morning, gerrans y comer representative, members of the committee. it's an honor to speak with you today. the economy is sick and the question for those in the clinton should policy is what economic medicine will help? unfortunately the economic understanding of how the government can revive is limited. it's not unlike the knowledge of server surgery. the instruments of one are not a very adept at using them and there is a good chance the intervention will cause more harm than good. we may not know how to bring life back into the fixed to become sick economy but we do know about how the government can create the sort of environment which is conducive to growth that is we know the source of habits that make for the healthy economy. let me begin by what we can and can't do in the short run.

you might not know if looking at some, but the truth is that there is a lot that we economists do not know about fiscal stimulus. there's a general agreement increased stimulus is costly and unproductive over the long run there's less agreement about whether the stimulus spending, the stimulus spending that it finances is helpful or harmful in the short run. we're using reasonable techniques have found that it enhances the qaeda sector growth. the reasonable economists using the techniques have found it destroys or crowds out the activity. i cannot tell what level of risk is acceptable to take with the american economy but there is risk in the further stimulus. one reason for the caution is the top domestic estimates seem not to apply to the current situation. when the nation as operating on a flexible exchange rate, too, when it is open to trade with other nations, and free when it is highly indebted. all three conditions apply or soon will apply to the united states.

economists also find the most players are large only when a stimulus is temporary. they also find that it's largely when the stimulus measures are modest. that is the ammunition removes to the stimulus. this is especially relevant in today's context of the government has already undertaken multiple netz of stellas projects. the real risks associated with too much stimulus. the recent study of 91 countries found that, quote, those governments that use fiscal policy aggressively and to significant macroeconomic stability and that is stability that diminishes economic growth. one problem is that there is a wide gulf that the advocates say the study was ought to be implemented. and the way that it actually is implemented. lawrence summers noted it can be counterproductive if it isn't timely and to every. however it is difficult to simultaneously meet all three criteria. on the timeliness we know that 18 months after the 2,009 stimulus past more than half of the money towards the investment is yet to be spent.

as far as targeting the numerous studies have found that this stimulus fund had no relationship to the local area unemployment rate. the funding didn't go to those areas most in need. as far as the covering growth studies suggest most spending boosts last far longer than intended. instead of implementing the quick fix, we should be creating the conditions necessary for the long run economic health. one of the most effective ways to do this is to provide the citizens a generous degree of what they call economic freedom. that is permit them the choice, free infantry introduction, open market competition and the rule of law. these ideas may sound vague but in the past several decades economists have made them more concrete way of developing the freedom. please bring up my first slide. >> one measure is it is developed by the professor index reached 141 countries on the factors such as the size of the government, the extent of the regulation, stability of the

long title to the degree of the property rights. this shows the positive name statistically significant relationship between the freedom and the per caput gdp. per capita income on the average person in the free country is more than seven times that of the average person. the per capita income of the poorest 10% in the freest countries is more than eight times that of the poorest 10% in the least. in other words, economic freedom is valuable for the average person to get it is particularly valuable for those of the least well-off among us. in contrast to the literature on stimulus there's a remarkable consensus in the study of economic freedom. one recent review of the 45 studies concluded that, quote, regardless of the symbol of the country the measure of economic freedom and the level of degradation there is a solid funding of a direct positive association between economic freedom and economic growth. can you please bring of the next slide. the literature demonstrates the prosperity of the united states is neither maximo nor inevitable. it's the result of decades of robust expanding economic

freedom. unfortunately, that freedom has been a force of this decline for about a decade. it can be restored by making the tax code more efficient, equitable and easy to comprehend. by bringing spending in line with taxation to make the policies sustainable by eliminating regulation that the tracks from or diverts the capitol to the unproductive activities by lifting restrictions to the international trading and by reaffirming our commitment to the equitable treatment of businesses no bailout, no handout, no special treatment and no special punishment. in conclusion, millions of americans are unemployed or under employed. millions more have given up looking for war altogether. it is only natural to want to perform emergency surgery on the economy, but we know from experience the intervention can sometimes cause more harm than good. fancher for the opportunity to testify today to i look forward to your questions. >> thank you for your testimony.

listening to the tristani particularly of dr. bernstein and dr. mitchell, i was thinking back many years ago in fact decades ago when i was in school down in houston texas and i was studying economics, majoring in the biology and took economics because i thought was an easy course and you had to take some electives and i enjoyed it. it was interesting to me and i got to be a senior and found out that i had to and fully calculus to make this work and got a whole lot more complicated. and listening to both of you it is clear what i knew even then that has been underscored over the years that sometimes can be very large differences in how the economists look at sometimes exactly the same data that comes up with a very different conclusions and we have some of that year that causes me to have great sympathy for ms. johnson

who was trying to make the business work where the economists and politicians are battling. so, my thanks to you for the great job that you are doing and keating over to injured people employed and trying to struggle your way through this and struggling with all of the issues of getting illegal let fisa and jogging to decipher the rules and watching those rules and regulations change and try to keep up with it and try to have your business not only survive but growth. i'm going to let the economists have a little bit of a discussion here today i'm going to go to dr. mitchell because dr. bernstein introduced the concept of a yo-yo economics. you're on your own. how would you characterize that in comparison to the sort of free-market principles which i understand that you are advocating? >> well, you know, it's interesting on the topic today

of the trickle-down economics i have to admit that there is no respectable economist i know of that advocates anything close to the trickle-down economics. so perhaps we are in agreement here. they're really isn't a school or academic journal that publishes regularly or teaches the students that what we ought to be doing is from the top down directing resources to the wealthy somehow in the hopes they will turn around and spend that. there is a well-respected school of economics which says we ought to treat all people equally and that we shouldn't single out some particular special treatment one way or the other. so what i would actually say is the while there isn't any economic school that teaches some sort of top-down trickle-down economics, unfortunately, the government do quite often practiced passed on

economics and by that i mean you study the biology as you said and in some ways i think the free market perspective used the economy as an ecosystem. it's a bottom-up process largely tiffin by consumers. where the process signals get lost is when the central planners attempt to direct capital and labor so that people don't -- it's not consumers who are saying where the jobs of tomorrow are but rather it is people in the government trying to figure where the jobs of tomorrow should be to the estimate i have another quick question and i'm sure there will the number of questions for dr. bernstein and he can redefine yo yo if he would like to. in your testimony, again, dr. mitchell, you expressed some skepticism that the president's call for another 105 billion, i've got that by adding several of his proposals together, adding another 105 billion in federal spending bill would result in the real benefits to the american economy.

in fact he said it may be risky. would you like to expand on that? >> this may be a good opportunity. i have an additional slightly might bring that up. i'm going to try to make this as long wonky as possible there is no dhaka was a promise. one of the things that's important when you were trying to evaluate stimulus measures is what economists call the multipliers simply put it says you can think of it as your return for government spending. we are going to go to the deficit and borrowing and we want to know what the impact on the economy is. each one of these bars represents a separate study and the important thing to keep in mind is if the result suggests the multiplier is larger than one then that means government spending actually multiplied for eds private sector economic activity. it is less than 100 is detracted from the crowd out, it diminishes private sector economic activity. the horizontal bar is the one

mark. each one of these vertical bars represents the high and low estimate of the different study to read a symbol of the recent studies over the last several years. that doesn't at all what to me like a slam on we know is daniels definitely always works and crowds in the private sector and makes malta was the private sector to me i will get that and i see an enormous amount of disagreement. i see even within studies there are estimates that suggest that have a very wide range, so you look at that and you can see by the way we know the media expert is below the one and the stimulus crowds out private sector economic activity and some of the worst examples it can destroy the 1 dollar grumet spending industry as much as $2.80, so that's what i mean when we see this is risky to i'm not say they are not well respected economists who sometimes think the stimulus is helpful but it is a risk and one

other quick point there are many things on which economists do agree benefits of free trade, the fiscal problems with the u.s. and over the long run there's frequently polls of members of the american economic association on these matters and you find lots of things which economists agree. the stimulus isn't one of them to the estimates before. my time is expired. >> thank you very much. a mengin for your knowledge of the calculus business. i'm going to stay away from it. it wasn't one of my strong suit in college. but i would like to ask ms. johnson, i commend you for bringing forth the family business for 60 years and being successful. but looking at your testimony you do bring of these

impediments and joke about how the osha is troublesome and frustrating and confusing and any issues you have to keep up with of course you certainly feel we could do without the epa and programs of slowing down job creation. let me just focus on the testimony regarding the the natural labor relations board. you testified in your testimony it on lawfully issued the rule regarding the the posting of notices on employee rights. first, does your company post notices regarding the minimum wage of the osha workers'

compensation and the wall is prohibiting discrimination. >> we absolutely do have a federal contractor it's been a requirement of hours. and if you consider the postings to be burdensome? >> burdensome in the sense that there are inspectors to come through and verify the posters that are displayed in the right size they are not hidden away in the dark corners on where the fact that there doesn't seem to be trust d'aspin again, you know, the company is to suffer from the bad companies because they are not all as great as your company seems to be. and in some places they do put them in the dark places in the room where no one can get in. let me just ask you this, with one additional notice regarding the employee rights on the labor law burdensome?

>> we've been doing it for many years, so it's become a practice of ours. i think that for those companies that have not been required to it could be a burden, yes. estimate your testimony says that they acted without legal authority to require that notice posting regulation, and i just want to know and you probably are aware that the national labor relations act thinks the board shall have the authority from time to time to make, amend and present such rules and regulations as may be necessary to carry out the provisions of the act. what about what prohibits the nlrb from the notice to their employees of their rights even if it's another one, whether their rights and labor people or the employer? >> well i just think that it's adding another burden to businesses and it is an example

of overreaching when there have been laws in place that people have been complying with and then they decide that they are going to change it. it's a perception that businesses have that independent agencies are overreaching and their authority at times to the estimate wouldn't you agree that if all workers know the rules and feel that it develops harmony if we really a small business of about 50 people and have to put up all of those regulations and let the people come in and day used to do tests on decibels of sound and was a problem because we had rotating actions in the operation and the workers didn't want to wear them. it was to protect the worker --

>> absolutely. >> and we enforce that for the worker even though it was a nuisance, but i think that the overall -- the last thing before my time expires, you also mention that you come in your testimony, the nlrb regulation can press time between when a petition is filed and the actual elections are held. and you call lists and -- ambush elections and i wonder if he can elaborate on that. >> i would like to. i would go on the record saying as a small business -- and i know this is a term that is overused -- our biggest asset, our number one priority is our work force that makes our company great. as companies have access to capital and can invest in technology, that's not going to make them a world-class company. it comes down to people. i'm not aware of any attempt organizations in my company over the last 16 years. when people are were number one priority as is their safety, and

in fact on a weekly basis, or to the turf operations in his report, the number one metric that he reports out on or any kind of safety occurrences or accidents. and in fact, last year on of our team metrics was to improve our safety record by 50%. so that it is less than two incidents per year. and that is a goal that we are able to achieve. one of our divisions last year and we are going forward. but without a doubt people are our greatest asset. their safety is number one to disconnect the gentleman's time is expired. cynics before mr. sherman and into to the panelists for being here today. appreciate your insight. ms. johnson, it's a pleasure to hear from you again. i think that you were here back in 2007. i sat and listened to you extol the wonderful opportunities and passion of manufacturing, and i have used the illustration many times without asking your permission of you going into

middle schools and telling the students what they can experience in manufacturing and the opportunities that were there and even seeing some of the parts that they produce go to the moon or go in space and so i would like to foster that passion as opposed to just dealing with excess of the limit regulation and in pensions upon you doing those things and i will inform you that i'm going to use your quote without innovation manufacturing is just a good idea commit so thank you for being here. let me ask you some questions in my district in michigan and a factor in state that's gone through some tough times and now just hearing from the governor how we are turning that around and seeing the value of manufacturing again. i hear so often from the manufacturers and business people, small business people the challenges they faced with uncertainty and the ever increasing burdensome regulations, not just simply regulations that are necessary,

but the advancing and increasing more and more regulations. it was a little more than a year ago the president announced his intentions to review and retial a number of regulations. have you seen any tangible evidence of this review, and is it the fact that it's working, or has the review caused less uncertainty in your field? >> thank you for that question. i very much appreciate compliments and the fact that you can remember me from 2007 to the is an ad that is a very important thing to this gimmick for my age. [laughter] you know, no, i have not seen any of these rules being retracted. in fact i would just recommend to the committee that at this point in time we just stop, look and listen and take it all in as we have been trying to climb out of this recession. what we hear constantly in the news is more and more regulation

coming our way. and we take the healthcare law for example. the only thing that we know at this time is that our costs have gone up when in fact the regulations haven't been written yet and what is written in "the wall street journal" just last week that it says president obama's regulators currently have some 149 major rules under way which are those that cost more than $100 million. so, my experience is no, i have not yet seen that. >> let me continue on with that. you noted in your testimony that washington regulations are time consuming, complex and certain changing to venegas from that can you estimate how much it costs the business to hire experts or counsel to navigate your business through the regulations? >> currently we have different

consulting firms we work with in regards to environmental compliance and we have a labor attorney that is on a retainer and between those three is well over $150,000. >> just for those areas. >> yes. >> do you receive any positive help from the federal agencies and assisting you with compliance and understanding? >> that's a great question to ask because the times i am in washington and the opportunities that i have to hear from the front representatives of these agencies, there is so much work that is being done to inform employers what's going on in washington and how they are there to help and i know for example of the manufacturing council meeting a couple of weeks ago we met with representatives from the epa and they said they are designing their web website so we have the projects going on and i think that there needs to be some way to get this information outside

of the beltway to the employer so that we understand it but at this point in time, we have not sought out any help from the federal level. our founding of that's available. >> what percentage of your business is overseas? >> very little of it. we are somewhat fortunate in the fact that, you know, we're split about 50/50 in terms of military and aerospace and a lot of that is remained here. however, with our fear is as some of our customers are helping the company's overseas develop their aerospace industry to supply chains are going to exist as well and we have no intentions of moving our business overseas. >> thank you. >> mr. space? >> thank you, mr. chairman.

we heard earlier today about investments and education needed to fill the vacancies in michigan. can you tell me the economic benefit of investments in education? >> short-term it is probably one of the best understood and most widely agreed upon relations in the labor economics for every extra year that a person has schooling their earnings are typically seven or 8% higher, and the idea that education complement's how your skills and how your earnings has become all that more important in the recent years as technology and the employer skill demands have increased the pace. so despite the fact that we are helping the workers improve their levels of education is very closely linked to their

employability and earnest. i will just say, let me add one point. if you have the education without the jobs you were all dressed up with nowhere to go so there is a supply side. ideally we want workers with good skills. there's also the demand side. right now we have too many people chasing too few jobs to this committee indicated that the 70,000 jobs in michigan was in that clear but it sounded like a lot of them were going unfilled because the employers couldn't find people that were qualified. >> certainly heard that recently and i think there are definitely pockets through the country where there is a mismatch between the skills the work force on the ground house and the employers' demand. but speaking more broadly, we definitely have a demand side problem as well. historical there are one or two job openings per one or two

employed people per job opening in the recent months. that ratio is down for the unemployed people per job opening. service is a tough game of musical chairs brought the speaking to the estimate and it is also even worse when there is a mismatch. >> exactly. >> if you invest in education, that has an economic stimulus effect, too. if you gave money to a community college, for example to improve the educational opportunities, could you say a word about what i would do to the employment? they would have to hire people. >> for years, this committee has been -- in the thick of the federal government has played a role in helping support training programs. what we now know, summarizing the research that i referenced in my submitted testimony is that the type of program that you described, congressman, are among the most effective.

we have found the sectoral employment in the strategy, and the ranking member miller pathway to the opportunity bill also seeks to this sweet spot in the education policy to be at the idea is to link up in full years at the most local level with community colleges so that the employers themselves can identify in the most granular terms the kind of jobs that they are going to be fielding in the coming months and years. it's a different approach to training than the kind of blanket soft skills basic training good luck. it's a much more granular look at the occupational demand of the future labor opportunities. those and plan a strategy is linking the employment of the college's i think is the way forward. >> in the community colleges where it receives money for the training as to how you're an adjunct professors, people to

buy books, and even that expenditure has short-term effects on the economy. >> that's right. clearly there is very much a demand for precisely this kind of training. and in fact if you look at one of the constraints, we talk about the community colleges and if you look at one of the real constraints of the community colleges face right now, they are actually way overcapacity in many places throughout the country. part of that is the function of the downturn. a lot of people going back and getting more schooling but it is the emphasis of the groups and committees -- >> another question very quickly. the developments have been laying off people because the balanced budget requirements. can you say a word about the importance of the federal government providing the revenue sharing so they would stop fleeing people of? >> absolutely. we have seen this almost every month past few years we've added private sector jobs. the public sector has shed

literally hundreds of thousands of jobs over the past few years and it's because they are facing budget constraints. one of the most successful programs in the recovery act was the state really sort the towns and cities, preventing the layoffs, teachers, sanitation workers, the key workers in the community, and in the american jobs act, the president provided, introduced an extension of exactly that type of help and it is very much in the interest of providing from what is still a fragile recovery. >> the gentleman's time has to expire. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you know, we are going to be hearing a lot more as we have today about burdensome regulation and how the federal regulations impact negatively on business and i think one that we are going to hear about over and

over again is osha's proposal to develop the illness prevention program, a rule that would require employers to implement a plan to find and fix before the workers are hurt instead of waiting for osha to find violations. the opposition, the opponents will claim that this is simply going to pile of paperwork and would be a new regulation that we don't need. well, to justify the opposition, some have mischaracterized the study by the corporation on california's injury and illness prevention program and stated that it had little impact on the worker safety because it deemed it as a preventative. but, what the corporation found as noted in a memo that the press release sent is that california's program can help prevent injuries to workers but

only if it is adequately enforced. the press release said that when inspectors from the failure to comply with provisions to train workers identify and have the hazards indeed there is a decline in accident and injuries. so mr. chairman, 20% is not a minor impact. it is not a burdensome regulation. it saves $74 billion every year in the workers' compensation and impacted employers could cut 20% of this cost which it would be about $15 million per year that would improve their competitiveness. so, i don't want to trivialize the value of injury and illness prevention programs. i want us to step up to the fact that there are regulations that helped and will make a difference. with that mr. chairman, i

respectfully request the need to place the generate 263 code 2012 press release into the record. >> without objection. >> thank you very much. ms. johnson, are you the beneficiary as a small woman owned business of the women owned small business contract program? >> yes. >> has that worked for you or has it been a burden? is it difficult to comply with? >> not necessarily, and i think that in fact it probably works more in favor for our customers who have some offset programs where they have to divert or contract with the minority owned or women owned businesses. >> so they contract with you and there are programs that actually

work in favor of those like yourself and others. >> you that there are and i would agree with the injury and illness prevented of program where there's no doubt there are regulations that are necessary. we are not disputing that by any means, but we are talking with the difficult and the uncertain economic times we are in right now, and just with so much we here in the news and the media and the malaise we need to stop for a second and figure it out. >> i appreciate that. dr. mitchell, and figuring out, can you list of the regulations that you would eliminate from the most to the least important? >> sure. thank you for asking because i think this gives an opportunity to highlight something that is important to understand about the regulation. both on the left and the right there's a tendency to think about the cost of the regulation is the burden of filling out the paperwork, right?

ai sorry? >> the savings is -- >> people will weigh that against the savings. some conservatives will go and count the cost to comply. >> we are on the yellow light. will you list the regulations you would eliminate from the most to the least important? >> i would say that the division's most important to eliminate or those that favor entrenched interest. because that is the hidden cost of the regulation. the regulation -- this is important work that has won the nobel prize to use >> okay. give me an example of that regulation. >> i think that there's a lot of opportunity in the health care and all for example to look at ways in which the regulation that were passed very quickly and apparently subject to the not particularly good analysis and the privilege to favored industries. >> okay. like the insurance industry. thank you mr. sherman. >> the gentlelady's time is

expired. we've got to put our questions here before i choose to think the panel i would like to recognize mr. payne for in the closing remarks he might have. >> thank you very much. i think that you have all added to the hearing today. i appreciate you coming and spending time. i also like to commend the governors. i thought that the had a very balanced approach, and i think that we really need to see how we can get america back on the job truck. i think a lot of the bickering that goes on is really discouraging to the american people. and i think that we can do together to help the nation in this time and i just hope that at some point in time the congress will come together and try to put american people first. also i would like to agree with the governor mentioned this secretary ray lahood did an

outstanding job and i would have to agree he is one of the more accessible and energetic forward thinking members. estimates before. i yield back to the estimate of course ray lahood has been a friend of many of ours for a long time and shows the value of the education that you get here in congress and move to the cabinet. i want to thank the witness is providing that underscore some of the differences we have and some places where we might come together. as i mentioned in my opening remarks i think there may be an opportunity we can come to agreement in streamlining and consolidating as the president suggested to make them work better and to match the needs of the employers with the output if you will love schools. the testimony also underscored some fundamental differences. sometimes it is bittering due to bickering that we get engaged with and it's unfortunate. sometimes it is fundamental differences and how what we think is best for the american

people and best for the economy and the best way to get americans back to work. that debate will continue and to have been very helpful in our consideration of those in the den i want to thank the witnesses and with there being no further business, the committee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> this morning, president obama

speaks at the 16th annual national prayer breakfast in washington. we will have live coverage of his remarks beginning at 8 a.m. eastern here on c-span2, and online at c-span.org. >> we as readers of literature have a responsibility. for those of you who are discovering the creation of literature you have a responsibility, do you not? can you create anything you want in the world, excepting history or not and to couple in the creation, or do you decide i can't anyways i can't write this. this weekend from lectures in history professor william foster on the n-word's place, saturday night at eight eastern but also on american history tv, he change the reading habits of americans, look at the influence of time and corporate founder, publisher of time, fortune and life magazines.7 saturday morning at 9:30 a.m. eastern and sunday at 5 p.m.,

january 19 and 1 the oil boom pits and the lucas gusher quickly make texas a leading oil producer. visit the boomtowns wealthy homes and streets of beaumont, texas. american history tv this weekend on c-span3. las.. >> they are the nonviolent majority, black and white, who are for change without violence. these are the people whose voice

i want to be. >> as candidates campaign for president this year, we look back at 14 men who ran for the office and lost. go to our web site, c-span.org/the contenders, to see video of the contenders who had a lasting impact on politics. >> our ancestors came across the ocean in sailing ships you wouldn't go across a lake in. [laughter] when they arrived, there was nothing here. they built their tiny little cabins, and they did it with neighbors helping one another, not federal grants. [cheers and applause] they came here because they wanted to be free, and they wanted to practice the religion of their choice. and after 200 years, too many of us take those privileges for granted. >> c-span.org/the contenders. >> congressional republicans have introduced bills that would revamp the federal budget process. the bills would make it more

difficult for congress to pass spending bills without first having passed a budget. and they would also make it harder for congress to pass emergency spending bills that some argue often contain nonemergency spending. some of the bills' supporters spoke to reporters yesterday at this half hour briefing. [inaudible conversations] >> it's a good group, isn't it? thank you all for coming. the american people are not happy with how congress and the administration manages their moneyment -- money. and i have concluded that they are, basically, right. first and foremost, we are borrowing 0 cents of every dollar we spend. that's so irresponsible as to produce no real argument in

return that this is legitimate. second, in our budget process we've known for years it's filled with a whole hot of gimmicks, techniques and methods that have developed over the years to hide the real cost of spending. we think in the 2012 process we're already seeing many of these gimmicks be employed. one little gimmick would be to provide for more money for a popular program like the schip, the children's insurance, and you expect to spend that would be called for under the budget procedure, then that allows the money to be appropriated at some other point as extra money. instead of like a family who plans to have a air conditioner and budgets $2,000 for it, it comes in at $1500. they don't then go and treat the 500 as free money to be spent.

it's still in their bank account. it has not yet been spent. it should today there. we are appropriating money in violation of the budget act before we have a budget. we should have a budget first. this bill would deal with that. and i would just say i appreciate my friend and colleague, martha roby. she's got energy and drive, and she's filed this legislation in the house last night that we filed in the senate last year. i believe we are on the road to moving forward with legislation that will create more honesty in our budgeting process. many of these are technical, but they're real. it'll create more honesty, more fairness, more ability for the american people to understand how much congress is spending, and it would be good for america. and i think in the end few, if any, of these proposals would engender any real good

government objection. so, martha, thank you for your good work, and i'll turn it over to you. >> well, thank you so much, senator sessions. and what a tremendous honor to be standing here with these distinguished members of congress in support of the honest budget act and on behalf of the american people. i am pleased to introduce the house companion bill to senator sessions' senate bill. i also want to thank all of my freshmen colleagues, and let me mention representative high sink georgia and your leadership on this issue, and i appreciate that. thirteen months ago our freshmen class came to washington, and we came from different states with different backgrounds, but certainly with a common purpose. we came here to cut spending. we came here to limit federal power, and we came here to restore integrity to the federal government. finish we have seen firsthand the tricks of the trade and the gimmicks used to distort the truth and hide new spending.

we learned that through precedent or bad habit these gimmicks have become institutionalized by both houses of congress, and both parties are very guilty of exploiting them. i'm convinced, along with everyone standing here with me today, that we can do much better. i believe that america deserves a government that shoots straight and that tells the truth. whereas we're all keenly aware that the number one issue facing america right now and that this federal government is doing all that we can to create legislation to help foster an environment where the private sector can do just that, create jobs. but we cannot overlook the reality that we are spending money that we do not have. this reckless spending spree that has happened here in washington has no doubt significantly contributed to the downward economy, and this bill directly and specifically addresses the exact gimmicks in

our current budgeting process that have led and will continue to lead to increased deficits. americans deserve an honest, accountable, predictable budget process, and this bill goes through nine specific gimmicks that are most commonly used. the bill offered by senator sessions and senator snowe is geared toward senate procedure, and our legislation in the house expands this approach where revenue and appropriation bills are first considered. we desire and are pushing for a process that instills integrity to the budget process. integrity is the highest human value we have. we must change the way washington works. we must require a budget process that is accountable, predictable and truthful. and this honest budget act is certainly a step in the right direction. and i want to thank you all again for being here today, and now i'm going to turn to senator kay bailey hutchison and her

senate colleagues for a few remarks. thank you. >> thank you so much. it is wonderful to have so many of our colleagues willing to come out and say that this is an important bill, and it's kind of a technical bill because it doesn't have the budget cuts in it. but if there is one thing that stands out to me, it is when we have an emergency funding bill that comes up and it's for an unexpected expense in our military or it's a disaster where we have wildfires or hurricanes or tornadoes, and then all of a sudden you see things being put on this bill, and we call it a christmas tree. because there are things that are not relevant to the emergency. if we could just make sure that we have a real budget -- which this bill will do -- that we work from a budget, that we stick to a budget and that we have emergency funding only when it's real emergency, that in

itself will help the transparency and the honesty and integrity that is going to be required if we are going to cut the deficits and get our economic stability back on track. and that's what all of us want to do. thank you. >> senator enzi? [inaudible] >> first, i'd like to thank the house for actually passing a budget last year. [laughter] >> you're welcome. >> the united states has been without a budget now for over a thousand days, and the budget they passed took a lot of flak, but it was a budget. and it had the potential to soft soft -- solve a lot of problems. now we're here today to demand a budget, but also to ask for one that's honest. it shouldn't take an accountant to tell you when they're fudging on the numbers. but it does. we steal from trust funds, we take money that'll come in over

a ten-year period and say we're going to pretend like we got it over a two-year period and fund some new programs, not eliminate debt that we've got, not make the united states more responsible, more respected, more in a position where they can continue to be the strongest country in the world. and that's a problem that we've got to solve. so it's time that we got rid of the gimmicks, it's time that we got more transparency in the budget, but it's very important that we have a budget. >> thank you, mike. all the house members are not speaking, but if you -- would any of you, please, i want all of you to come and introduce yourself and say a few words. >> so i'm bob corker, and i strongly support what martha and jeff have put forward. one of the greatest frustrations here is know eking that so much of what happens in the budgeting process is make believe. for what it's worth, i voted for

no appropriations bills this year, none. out of frustration about the fact that we with continue to appropriate and spend money and yet will not do the tough work to actually pass a budget where you have to go through the grueling exercise of making that happen. so i'm very strongly supportive and thank these two leaders in the house and senate for their leadership on this issue. >> [inaudible] >> thank you. first, i want to thank all my colleagues for being here. this is a terrific turnout, and it's because honesty in budgeting always makes sense, but it particularly is needed right now. we're looking at record deficits, a soaring debt. yesterday the congressional budget office tells us we're looking at trillion dollar deficits into the future and actually adding trillions of dollars more debt in the next ten years if we continue on this trajectory, and it is hurting the economy right now. it's like a wet blanket creating uncertainty, unpredictability and keeping us from creating the

jobs all of us so desperately want to see. let me just mention three things that don't make any sense. we typically evade spending caps by designating something an emergency. here's what stops that process, one, by being sure you had to have not just a majority vote, but a three-fifths vote to move forward and better twining what an -- defining what an energy is. it's a way, frankly, congress has done a lot of spending it shouldn't have done. second, congress can cover up deficit breaches by shifting tax payments or shifting reforms a couple of days into a year. taxes are brought back to a fiscal year to show within a five-year or ten-year period that there's more revenue than there really is. same with the spending side. this legislation would keep that from happening. again, it's a way in which over the years there's been a lot of gimmickry and increased spending that's been hidden from the

american people. finally, it would stop congress from bailing out the highway trust fund by actually hiding the cost of the new spending. so when congress transfers funds into the trust fund -- and sometimes this is tens of billions of dollars -- often it's not counted as an outlay, meaning it's not counted as new spending, and yet it is. these are just three examples i wanted to throw out as an example of what this good legislation would do, so i thank martha and jeff for promoting it and, again, i'm encouraged by the great turnout today. >> [inaudible] >> well, thanks for coming here. my name's ron johnson. an honest budget, what a concept, huh in it's amazing that we actually have to pass a law. but the first thing we ought to do in the senate is pass a budget. it's the minimum that the american people expect us to do, so from my standpoint, i'm going to count -- my background is in business. this is the first time in 33 years in my dealing with the financial entity, and let's face it, the united states government is the large financial entity in

the world, that i've been operating without a budget. so we need to certainly as senate republicans hold the democrats' feet to the fire, senator harry reid's feet to the fire to actually pass a budget on time by april 15th, and i certainly hope the members of the press will also hold the democrats accountable. thank you. >> i'm saxby chambliss from georgia, and it is truly a shame that we have to come out here and force the hand of the democrats by passing a law saying you guys truly do have to present a budget. your constituents want to see how much money we're going to spend. and i commend jeff and olympia and martha for coming forward with a meaningful proposal that not only says that you have to pass a budget, but that also you have to be responsible in the way you do it. you can have the greatest budget in the world and have all the right numbers in it, but if you don't have enforcement mechanisms in place like requiring the right number of

votes as this particular bill does moving the 303 point of order from 51 votes to 60 votes, for example, in the senate, then all the great numbers in a budget mean nothing. that's the type of enforcement mechanisms that we need to have in place, and i'm very pleased to stand by all of these folks and say that it's time we got more responsible and more transparent in our budget process. >> i'm mike lee from utah, and i think it's significant that they say you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all the time. that, nevertheless, hasn't stopped congress as an institution from doing whatever it can to fool a lot of the people over a very prolonged period of time. that's why this legislation is so important. the fooling can happen only as long as those who are aware of what's happening, um, do nothing and remain silent. so i'm grateful to senator

sessions, i'm grateful to the other sponsors of this legislation for bringing it forward, for making sure that we're telling the american people what we're doing. when congress doesn't balance its budget, it needs to level with the american people. when it incurs a deficit of $1.5 trillion a year, it needs to tell the people what that deficit actually is and what the true liabilities are on the books so that it can't make it look like we're balancing when we're not and that we're borrowing less than we are. i commend the sponsors and urge all of my colleagues in both houses and parties to support this legislation. thank you. >> thank you. we've got to go, we've got a 1:00 most of our members have to be at, so turn it over to you. >> thank you to all of our colleagues in the senate. [inaudible] >> i think i'm batting first here for the be house members, but i need to get everybody ready here. we have a news flash. um, government has been lying to

hard working taxpayers about how we spend money. here's your follow-up story, though, the american people know it, all right? they know it already. and that's the joke that has been going on at so many different levels of government. and i've got the tell you that they know in their heart, they know in their gut when they're looking around and sitting at their kitchen table knowing they have to put their budget together, knowing they have to run a small business like my small sand and gravel business, as i figure out how i'm going to pay my employees, keep their health insurance, what are we going to do about a new loader that i have to buy, those are the types of tough decisions i have to make. i just met with my new governor, rick snyder, this morning on how to make sure we get retraining. those are the tough decisions our colleagues at the state level have to do, and michigan, unfortunately, unlike our federal government, has a balanced budget requirement in it constitution.

governor snyder has to go in and make those tough decisions, and what do we do at the federal level? completely different. and that is a reasonable expectation that we would have. it's sort of like saying, well, i'm sitting around my kitchen table, and things are getting tough, and i'm not sure i'm going to be able to pay my mortgage, guess what? we're going to go with the basic cable package, and i'm going to take that ten years' of save is savings and put it in this year, and that's how government works. i appreciate so many of my senate colleagues bringing up the failure of leadership that we've seen out of harry reid. you all know what this is. you've all seen it, right? most of us are walking around carrying one. it's an ipad which didn't exist 108 -- i'm sorry, 1,008 days ago when you all last passed a budget. you're right, i think it was senator sessions or maybe

senator enzi who said we took some heat back home when we passed some very difficult budgets, the paul ryan budget out of the house of representatives, those were some tough decision discussions, but those were the right discussions we needed to have as an american people. so it's been referenced there's a lot of technical things in this, it may be technical, but it's also, oh, so pacific. it's time that the government be open, honest and transparent with the american people how it spends their hard-earned dollars when they entrust that to us here in the house of representatives and the senate. thank you very much, and, martha, i'm not sure who's going to go next, but -- my good colleague and friend from arkansas, tim griffin. i said arkansas. >> thank you for your time. what we're talking about here is injecting common sense into the budget process. what we've got now is as some before me have said is

deceptive. the thing that struck me when i got here is that when we were looking for savings in the house and the senate does it, and both parties do it, we're looking for savings eight, ten years down the road, and we count that as saving money. well, the truth is we don't know what's going to happen eight years down the road. in fact, the congress eight years from now will decide what's spent eight years down the road. we don't have a clue what's going to happen eight or ten years down the road. so to go eight or ten years down the road and supposedly identify money that is or is not going to be spent is a joke. it's a joke. it is actually deception. and we need to stop doing it. and i, i applaud all the folks on this stage, i applaud representative roby for

introducing this bill, and i know we've got a lot of work to do to get this passed. i think it's high time that we do it. and as some of my colleagues have said, a good start would be for harry reid to pass a budget. thank y'all. >> corey gardner -- [inaudible] >> well, thank you. thank you, martha, senator sessions for convening this today and to talk about the honest budget act. i'm corey gardener from colorado's fourth congressional district. growing up in a state, we sell farm equipment there, and you should the way congress works -- under the way congress works if we were to buy a piece of equipment today and decide we were going to pay for it next year, under congress' rules we'd be saving money and get to buy another one without paying for it. if we did that in our personal lives and businesses, we'd be broke and in jail. it is time we end the charade and start being honest to the

american people, and they get it. i've had over 60 town meetings now in colorado, and normally i don't hear from somebody stand up and say, you know, what about this rescission, what about this budget outlay, what about this chimp on that chimp? you know what they say? washington is spending more money than you have. you're spending money you don't have, and the people who are going to pay for it are our children and grandchildren. this, the honest budget act brings reality to congress. the reality that we are broke and we can't fool the american people because they're on to washington. and it's time that this place live up and be live under the same rules that every man and woman in this country has to live under, making their ends meet, meeting their obligations and being honest about money that we don't have. and that's why i'm glad to support this bill and glad that you've got a great group of people who are committed to bringing honesty to washington and making sure that we change business as usual in this town.

>> my name's austin scott, i'm from georgia's eighth congressional district. and like many of the 89 freshmen republicans about 12 months ago i was a small business owner working through a recession and doing the things we needed to do in our budget to make sure the business was able to continue to operate. we would take our budget month by month and set our revenue estimate for the year based on the worst month that we had had in the prior 12 months. in washington the federal government bases their budget on the best possible revenue estimate. no matter how unrealistic it might be. that's the fundamental difference between main street and washington, and it is the primary reason that we have a $16 trillion national debt that main street will have to pay back. yesterday the congressional budget office announced that the united states' deficit will run $1.1 trillion for 2012.

this is a direct result of budget gimmicks that have been allowed to continue regardless of which party was in control. i'm one of the 89 members of the freshmen class, as i said. we have more than 300 children and grandchildren. my son is 12 years old, his name is wells. we were sent to washington to fundamentally change the way washington does business. it is a process that is broken, it is a process that is breaking many americans. the honest budget act is the first step, and they say the first the accept is the hardest. but i say this is a necessary step that we must take. the honest budget act should not only put us on track to have a genuine budget, it will also put us on a path towards a balanced budget. and in georgia we have a balanced budget amendment to our constitution just as most other states do, and i'm from the appropriations committee in the state of georgia. now, every state balances their budget, every city balances their budget, every county,

every school system, every home has to balance their budget. it's not too much to ask that washington balance its budget as well. martha, i want to thank you for this piece of legislation that can help get this country back on track, and thank you for allowing me to be a part of it. steve? >> i will be, i will be brief. i'm steve sutherland, and i'm from panama city, florida, representing florida's second congressional district. i will tell you, this wonderful piece of legislation, the honest budget act, i'm saddened to tell the american people honest, budget, washington, d.c. has neither. neither. this is a joke. it angers me. it breaks my heart. my father told me when i was a child, son, tell the truth, and you won't ever have to have a good memory.

we are lying to the american people. my god, we are lying to ourselves. it is embarrassing what we have become here. the american people know the truth. we believe several of us know the truth. it is time, it is time that we act and practice courage, and i applaud representative roby, i applaud senator sessions for putting their money where their mouth is, for stepping forward and implementing god-given principles of honesty and integrity. you cannot build a marriage or a home without honesty. you cannot build a church, an organization, a family business that i come from without honesty. and you cannot build a government apart from hand toy. we owe an apology, and i beg the forgiveness of the american people.

i'm sorry for where we are. it breaks my heart. but this wonderful piece of legislation, hopefully, will say to the american people we want to do better. we will do better. and our commitment with this act is to end the games as usual, to be truthful, to be honest and to do something that washington has not enjoyed for an awful long time; a newfound integrity with those we represent. thank you so much for being here, and i pray that our colleagues in both houses realize the serious nature of my words and act appropriately. thank you. >> well, thank you, congressman southerland. and i do believe you touched on the fundamental point there, that we need responsibility in this congress, and we haven't had it. the house did, indeed, pass a

very important, realistic budget that altered the debt course of america, would put us off the road to decline and on the road to prosperity. senator harry reid, the democratic leader, said it would be foolish for us to pass a budget. he didn't mean that -- and i've said this on the floor, he knows i've said it -- he didn't mean it because it's fool bish for america -- foolish for america that we would have a budget, he meant for the politics of the senate because as has been suggested, you pass a realistic budget today, some people are going to be complaining, and it's not easy. it takes courage. so i thank all of you for having the courage to produce a budget, and i'm embarrassed and apologize the united states senate has gone over a thousand days without having a budget. so, martha, thank you for introconstitutioning it, and i'm -- introducing it, and i'm hopeful, senator snowe and i believe -- she couldn't be with

us today, but olympia and i believe if house can move this bill to success, i don't believe there can be many logical and principle arguments against it in the senate, and i think it would increase dramatically our ability to get it passed, so thank you for your leadership. any questions? >> [inaudible] >> well, that's very possible because we're not offering the debt course we're -- altering the debt course we're on. the experts who are looking at our economy, and we've had a number of testify before the budget committee, basically saying we should have started last year, the debt commission said we should have started last year. they plan to reduce the testify sits over a period of time that would gain credibility in the markets. so the president in his state of

the union address, i was just deeply disappointed that he made no reference to the threat that debt places, america faces. so this is going, it's going to be hard to do it without the president's leadership, without him looking the american people in the eye and saying we really do have a problem. but as someone said earlier, i think the american people are getting it, and that was a big factor in the last election. we're not on the right course. if we don't change this course, we'll continue to see downgrades, and i would quote erskine bowles, president clinton's chief of staff, president obama chose to head the debt commission and alan simpson said this nation has never faced a more predictable crisis, quote. and what he was saying was if you don't change the debt course, we're going to have a financial reckoning, it's just a question of when. mary? >> [inaudible]

>> um, it's 350 bill we score over five years would have been saved had this bill been in effect, and it does prohibit what we call -- [inaudible] a mipg of the hand -- manipulation of the mandatory spending, changes in mandatory spending, and that can create more integrity in that process. but it does not mandate any fundamental changes in mandatory spending. >> [inaudible] >> okay. one more question. over here. >> [inaudible] house democrats, are they against this bill? >> well, let me just say i think what is represented here on this stage today is a huge first step as it relates to this bill that,

um, originate inside the senate and, certainly, we have made the appropriate changes for the house. as you know, our points of order are different animals, and we had to make the changes, technical changes so that we could apply these same rules to the house. what you see representatives up here today is a group of freshmen. there's almost one-third of the republican freshman classes that have taken the initiative to put their nameses on this bill as a start. certainly, we hope in days to come and as senator sessions referenced, if we can move this through the house with bipartisan support, certainly, we think there's a good chance that we could see some positive things shape up in the senate. this is not the answer to all of our problems. we know that. it's the tip of the iceberg. but, um, as was stated earlier as well, sometimes the first step is the hardest, and i'm just really, really honored to have the support of all of our freshmen colleagues here. we look forward to getting grand

bipartisan support down the road. so i just want to -- >> sorry. bill high sink georgia, second district of dan, -- michigan. i actually have approached some of our democrat colleagues about this con cement, both some of the blue dogs as well as progressive members. it strikes a chord with them as well. i think sort of the nature of washington these days, everybody's looking for the land mines though. and i don't -- you know, the political land mines. so there are a number of -- >> we'll leave this program at this point and go live now to the national prayer breakfast. president obama is there along with the first lady. this annual event hosted by the fellowship foundation, it's a nonpartisan christian group based here in washington d.c. [applause]

[applause] [applause]

>> okay, i think we're ready. while we have your attention -- [laughter] and focus. so we can keep on schedule, mark and i and many, many others have been working and praying on this remarkable breakfast for months now, and we're all excited to share it with you. i think we've all had two different experiences of what can happen when we bring faith into the world of government and business. sometimes it creates conflict. and when we look at our planet's history, even wars. but at other times more often really, true faith can be a reconciling force of amazing power, a power that can make an entire society better. as ambassador andrew young described last night at the southeastern dinner, he was talking of the civil rights

movement, the nonviolent movement that overcame bigotry and hatred in a way that could have been done no other way. the done, i would say, in the spirit of jesus as he said. so we all have somewhat different religious histories. in my faith walk as i've studied the life of jesus, it seems his approach was always to see the people who were considered to be outsiders or who had withdrawn and to bring them all in. all those lepers and samaritans and disabled people and poor people and folks like the woman at the well. they had been pushed out or had withdrawn, and jesus brought them in. i think that's the kind of approach we want to 'em l brace in this -- embrace in this breakfast and everything that flows out of it. we want to bring everyone in and to be in harmony with god's will and to share in god's love. >> senators have been meeting in

breakfast group for over six decades now. as friends we gather every wednesday the senate is in session to pray. to give you a picture of how long that group has been in existence, the senate breakfast group has met about one time for every person in this room. we come together to pray for each other in work for the senate and, of course, for the country. once a year we invite you all into the fellowship together to pray for world leaders and especially for our president. some of you have heard that things could be better in congress, and that's true. [laughter] i think a good place to start would be to remember just a few simple, yet powerful words. love one another as i've loved you. forgive and you will be forgiven. love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. we don't need a constitutional amendment or some big

congressional reform. we just need to start acting better, and jesus gives us the place to start. it's simple, but it's hard. we need to love and pray for people who disagree with us. we hope you'll be loving and praying for us and with us this morning in this special time today and when you return home. i have a special, i have a letter from a very special friend of ours, and he writes to folks who are attending the national prayer breakfast: i want to convey my personal greetings to even of you -- each of you assembled this morning. i miss being with you all. having been a part of this annual event sponsored by the house and senate prayer groups since the very beginning often as a speaker. though age and health prevent me from being there in person, i am with you in spirit, and you're in my heart. i want to say a special word of encouragement to the many friends meeting today from across the country and be around the world, especially president obama and his wife, michelle,

and vice president joseph biden and his wife, jill, for whom i pray every day as the scriptures command us to do. the national prayer breakfast is one of the most amazing gatherings as people from most of the nations of the world representing every race, color, creed, religion and political affiliation or none come together in the name of jesus to focus on his teachings and follow his examples how to live and love each other. throughout my ministry spanning more than 60 years, i have tried to lift up the name of jesus to audiences and individuals in many of the countries you represent today. against the backdrop of polarization in our nation this election year and the tensions across the globe due to war, disease, poverty and other problems, i pray that the foundation of unity you embody around the person of jesus may be an example to the world and a catalyst for peace, freedom and reconciliation as each of us discovers in our own hearts the

love and forgiveness he offers to those who seek and turn to him in repentance and faith. may god richly bless your time of fellowship and inspiration this morning, and may the lord give each of you a special sense of his spirit as you pray together and pray in jesus' name, signed billy graham. [applause] >> thank you. jesus said that if we had faith as small as a mustard seed, we could move mountains. we experienced a similar miracle when we hear the size of the voice that comes out of the relatively small body of our singer, jackie ivanko. she's 11. god has given her an extraordinary gift, and we're thrilled she is here to share it with us. please welcome jackie ivanko. [applause]

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ [applause] [applause] >> wow.

wow. thank you, jackie. that was phenomenal. thank you so much. we have quite the head table here. we have the runner-up to america's got talent, the winner of the heisman trophy, the winner of the nobel prize -- [applause] and the most powerful woman in american history. so thank you all for being here. >> pretty impressive. but when we come before god, all the fancy titles are brought down. we're all equally of value before our creator. allow me to introduce some of our presenters who will just come to the podium when their turn arises. as a senator representing the national champion alabama -- never get tired of slipping that in -- [laughter] i get to introduce the football

players. we're proud to have a baylor bear with us, mr. robert griffin iii, winner of the 2012 heisman trophy. [applause] he excelled at finishing drives in games, so we've asked him to do our closing prayer. we always honor our nation's military each year by asking one of their own to be a part of the program. today we are proud to have colonel kelly martin, an active duty air force officer who serves in the operations directorate in the joint staff at the pentagon. during her career as a -- [applause] during her career as a pilot, she did countless in-flight refuelings, so she knows a thing or two about prayer. [laughter] she will lead us in a prayer for american national leaders. next is congressman and dr. paul

brown from georgia. he and congressman mcintyre lead the house breakfast group. and every ship has an anchor. and in our senate breakfast prayer group, senator daniel akaka of hawaii has been our anchor for many years. prison -- [applause] so we're going to miss him, aren't we, mark, when he retires? and we've asked him to say our prayer for world leaders, and i would just add i don't, i'm not -- i've not known anyone, alabama or elsewhere, who has better lived his life in the spirit of than danny akaka. danny, thank you for all you do to make the senate and our government a better place. we're also joined by our colleague, dr. tom coburn, who passionately represent it is people of oklahoma and will give us a reading from the scripture. [applause] and if you know tom, you know

that his faith impacts his life, and we all know that. next i have the honor and privilege of introducing my wife, mrs. mary sessions, partner for 42 years who's enabled me -- [laughter] enabled me to be able to serve and be has provided us with three children and five grandchildren. [applause] so we are very grateful once again to welcome the first lady of the united states, michelle obama. [applause] none of us can even imagine the burdens you carry as the spouse of the leader of our nation. we thank you and pray for you and honor your work on behalf of the health of our nation's

children and all americans. [applause] >> mr. president, did you hear the little thing about the national championship? [laughter] you know, this year it's alabama, last year it was auburn, it never stops. [laughter] you see what i have to put up with now? anyway, it's hard to be a razorback fan, but we're working on it. >> you're working on it. [laughter] >> what most people don't fully realize is government is a team sport. we're all thankful to have our tireless and passionate vice president running all over the country and world to accomplish our country's most important work, vice president joe biden. [applause] the next person i want to introduce is my wife, jill, the best person in the world. [applause]

you've already met jackie evancho. she's going to sing one more song in a few minutes, but i think after that she has to leave and go study for a spelling test. [laughter] but seated next to her is her mother, the proudest mom in the room, this is lisa ev, that cho. thank you both for being here. [applause] and shortly we're going to hear a greeting from our counterparts who lead the house prayer breakfast group. they make those of us at the head table feel extra safe because one is a doctor, and the other is a black belt in tae kwon do. of. [laughter] you know, one kind of tears you up and one tears you down, i guess. [laughter] but anyway, namely congressman mcintyre and congressman brown. thank you both for being here. [applause] and finally, one of the three people in the room who need no introduction is majority leader

nancy pelosi. we thank her for her inspiring service to the country prison -- country. [applause] and her support for the prayer breakfast over the years, and we look forward to the scripture that she is about to read. so, madam leader? >> thank you. thank you very much, senator pryor, for the invitation to read from the holy scripture this morning. let us all be grateful for the fellowship that brings us together with our president of the united states and the first lady, the vice president who said after jackie finished singing, now i know how the angels sound. [laughter] so beautiful. the fellowship that brings us together as colleagues, our international guests and, of course, most of all, our men and women in uniform who give us the opportunity to exercise freely

our faith. i'm honored for the opportunity to read from the holy scripture from the old testament. when i was asked by senator be pryor to do so, i went right to solomon. we all know over the ages that king solomon has been recognized for his great wisdom. but it's really important to note that his wisdom sprang from humility, and that must be our prayer. solomon's prayer is heralded in at least two books of the bible, the second book of chronicles, the first book of kings, a reading from the first book of kings. god appeared to solomon in a dream during the night. god said, ask what you would like me to give you. solomon replied, you showed most faithful love to your servant david, my father. when he leved his life before

you in faithfulness and uprightness and integrity of heart. you have continued this most faithful love to him by allowing his son to sit on the throne today. now, my god, you have made me your servant king in succession to david, my father. but i am a very young man, unskilled in leadership. and here as your servant surrounded by your people whom you have chosen, a people so numerous that its number cannot be counted or reckoned. so, solomon said, give your servant a heart to understand how to govern your people, how to discern between good and evil. for how could one otherwise govern such a great people as yours? it pleased god that solomon should have asked for this. since you have asked for this, god said, and not asked for long life for yourself or riches or

vengeance upon your enemies, but have asked for discerning judgment for yourself here and now i do what you ask. i give you wisdom and understanding as no one has ever had before and no one will have after you. the whole world sought audience with solomon to know the wisdom god had put in his heart. may our message from this reading be that we have the humility to ask god for what pleases him so that we can do his workment -- work, amen. [applause] >> good morning. >> morning. >> i'm dr. paul brown, i'm a

physician, a representative from the tenth congressional district in georgia and a republican. and this is my friend, mike mcintyre. as senator pryor just told you, he's a black belt. i'm going to be careful what i say about hill. [laughter] but he's a democrat, blue dog democrat that represents north carolina. i'm also a member of the gideons, so if you didn't have a bible in your hotel room, please, let me know, we'll be sure to get you one. [laughter] in fact, i'm a gideon because it was a gideon bible that led me to the lord, and i accepted him as my lord and savior sometime ago. we thank you for coming to the breakfast today -- [applause] especially our honored guests from all around the world. we are up here to bring greetings from our weekly congressional house breakfast group and give you kind of a bit of sense of what goes on there. i'd love to see a headline

someday that says republicans and democrats pray together. not sure "the washington post" or new york times would ever run that headline, but it's absolutely true. we do. and we've done so for over 50 years in our private little dining room. we gather each week. we do that to pray, we study the scriptures we share our family struggles and needs and our personal needs, we even try to sing sometimes. [laughter] actually, every week that we're here. we call it the best hour of the week because it absolutely is. it's where democrats and republicans can come together, put politics aside, partisanship aside, and we're just personal. friends, brothers and sisters in christ. and we worship our god together. over 25 years ago, jesus christ changed my life when i accepted him as my personal lord and savior. he gave me not only a personal

peace, but he gave me a purpose in my life, to serve him and to live for him. there's no rule that says that i have to check my faith when i go through the doors of the house chambers. i couldn't if i wanted to. i'm always eager to talk about what god has done for me and in my life and how he's changed me, how he saved me and made me a child of god. i'm thankful for our house group, the people who founded the united states were people who prayed. they knew the scriptures. and it's good for the whole nation to follow their example in honoring the god that created each and every one of us and his son who died for us all. >> thank you, paul. i'm mike mcintyre and, you know, serving in congress is a great privilege, but it's also a tremendous challenge, and i'm very thankful that i get to meet with my colleagues from both

sides of the aisle to come together in our breakfast group where we can share heart to heart. you know, washington usually focuses just on the surface, on the labels and where you come from and who you're supposed to be identified with. but in our weekly group it allows us to go deeper and to build friendships. and i also want to tell you about a new tradition. during the first vote of each week on monday or tuesday night, several house members step across the hall in room 219 and leave labels at the door and pray like solomon of the old testament for wisdom for that week so that we will make the right decisions. you know, when i'm back in my district, i often have people come up to me and express concerns or complain about washington, can you imagine that? [laughter] and they'll go on for 30 minutes. and usually after i've listened carefully to what all they're saying, i'll say would you pray for us that we will make the right decisions? if it's that important to you or

to your family or to your business or your school or our country, would you take the time to pray for us that we will make the right decision? and, you know, i've never had anybody refuse to do that when i've asked them. because like the old testament, we want to build a wall of prayer around our nation's capitol. and you can put a stone or a brick in that wall of prayer if you would each week by taking five minutes to join us in prayer, and you can choose the time. if you go to the congressional prayer caucus web site and say, you know what, mike? i will pray for you and for our president and for all of our leaders at all levels of government. it is that important. because, you see, the true source of power is not found in the halls of congress or in the oval office of the west wing or in the chambers of the supreme court. it's found on our knees before the throne of grace, before almighty god asking for his help. [applause]

..

and we are grateful this blessing continues today. thank you for each and every one of our leaders and their willingness to serve our nation. its people and ultimately to serve you. i asked in the heat of battle you give our leaders clarity of mind and the courage to make the right decision the especially when it is not convenient or expedient. give them the faith to seek you. the hope that will sustain them and most importantly give them a love that will unite them. we ask that you bless our leaders, protect and watch over them, develop a piece that passes understanding, bless their families and continues to

bless the united states of america. i pray this in your son's name, amen. [applause] >> good morning. i have the privilege of reading from the new testament scriptures. the passage of want to read today has to do with the most powerful force the world has ever known, love. in this room we have people from over 100 different countries, all colors, all aspects of faith and maybe a few different points of view. jesus said keith fergus -- you shall love the lord your god with all your hard, all your

soul and all your mind. this is the first and the greatest of all commandments. and the second is like it. that you shall love your neighbor as yourself. on these two commandments hang the law and the profits. a new commandment i give to you, that you love one another as i have loved you, that you also love one another. this is my commandments to you. that you love one another as i have loved you. greater love is no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. the power of love is manifested in the stillness and happiness of our hearts because as we give love and sacrificial love, that

is the only way our lives are truly fulfilled. by giving away our lives. we have great examples of that. in our military, in our leaders, as they sacrifice their life and time with families. we are commanded to do that may god bless the reading of the word. [applause] >> let me add my aloha and welcome to all of you gathered here at the 60th national prayer breakfast. let us pray. holy, holy, hole lord god of

hope, heaven and earth are filled with your glory. we come to you to prey for our world leaders. give them your wisdom to deal with the challenging problems of our time. may your spirit rest upon them as they seek to empower people to lead quiet and peaceful lives in all godliness and honesty. send out your wife and lead our world leaders with your truth. bring them to strife and warfare, to lasting peace, uniting them for the glory of your name.

as they put aside selfish ambition make them instruments of your will to carry out your purposes in our world. we pray this in your sovereign names. amen. >> thank you. [applause] >> when we take the long view of history it is pretty clear that ideas are more powerful than money or guns or even governments. so if we follow that logic, ideas about god would be the most powerful of all. one of our most precious resources of the community of faith are those women and men to help us think deeply and clearly about god. about truth and about

responsibility. burke mctaxes has been a friend for many years. if you come to office we may ask you to speak. but he has written two new york times bestsellers, 30 children's books, has been part of the details series and debated the existence of god and academic settings all over the world. i first became aware of him from his book amazing grace about william wilberforce whose life makes a great god book for anyone serving in government. the just finished another book of his about a great public role model, after, murder, profit,

spy. ladies and gentlemen, deck mctaxes. >> good morning to all of you. our guests from around the world from this great nation, mostly our president and first lady. what an honor to be here. i have to ask i want to know how many people are here this morning, raise your hand if you hear -- i want to get a quick -- that was four. they said 4,000. let me say up front i am not a morning person. but it is an honor to speak to this extraordinarily early gathering. it is an august gathering because they charge $175 for breakfast. i don't want to start by being negative but i think there may be some kind of money laundering thing happening here.

i am speaking -- price gouging needs to stop. even as a member of the elite 1% i cannot afford this. but we joke. [applause] we joke, we joke, but i know who puts these events on. they are a highly secret and nefarious organization. they call themselves the family. the family. you see, family not only run this event but everything that is happening in the world. we, the president and our most specifically, on their puppets. the president knows what i mean. he cannot miss this publicly. appearing here this morning we're simply doing their bidding. every u.s. president has been elected by them except for

warren g. harding. no one knows how warren harding was able to buck that trend but he paid dearly for it most notably by being settled with the name warren g. harding. quick word and the days. the thick of those dean martin rose as. that was my favorite show aside from stanford and sun. forgive me if i pretend i'm up here with bob hope and jimmy stewart and red buttons and foster brooks, and rich little. that is who wish were up here. to those of you who are actually up here, i apologize from the bottom of don rickles's heart, i am sorry. national breakfast. say something about prayer. seriously. what is prayer? the real question is what is

prayer? prayer is a real faith in god. is not phony religious yossi -- religiousi religiousity. no tickets are kick ville libya edge that we believe you are old-fashioned and easily annoyed and even crankier deity. and to get your magnificent attention wheat must employ wooden and religious sounding language. that is not rare. that is to use current terminology a lot of pious baloney. who said that? a believe it was nancy pelosi. someone on the couch. i can't remember. the point is pious baloney is not where. is not based on the god of scripture. imagine talking to jesus that way. he would almost laugh at you. imagine if we talked to him that way. prayers from the heart, don't try to fool got. adam and eve friday with a fig leaf and it did not go so well.

this gets to my theme. the difference between religion and religiousity and real fit the. people go to church who do not show the love of jesus and people who know scripture's but use it as a weapon. real for and real faith is not religion. it is from the heart. it is real. a a privilege of writing about two men but personal wilberforce and bar harbor demonstrate what religiousity and knowing and serving god is. let me tell you how i came to see the difference between these utterly different things. i am the son of european immigrants who met in an english class in new york city in 1956 and i am thankful apparent error in the room this morning so please don't get up. [applause] my dad is greek. hence my surname.

my mom is german hence my deep love for siegfried and roy. thank you. when you report raised greek, one greek parent, you are raised greek. forget the german stuff. greeks believed that being greek is the most important thing in the world. i am 50% greek but always tried to be more than 50% greek but have never been able to break the 50% barrier. a little bit like a brother met. i thought you might like that. i grew up in the greek orthodox church. i was an altar boy. had a modicum of faith. most phenomenal cultural faith. thought of myself as a christian but i went to yale university. dream come true for every set of working-class european immigrants but the reality is yale and most of our universities especially yale is a very secular place aggressively secular, little modicum of face i had was seriously challenged. the idea of god really is

ignored or even sneered at by the time i graduated. i was quite sure that was wrong to be serious about the bible or take jesus seriously. it was hopelessly parochial and divisive and i wasn't sure what was supposed to replace it. i was confused. i guess i was lost. i wanted to be a writer. i was not successful. i floundered and drifted and forward some more and drifted and floundered together which you would think is easy. things got so bad moved back in with my parents which i do not recommend. i specifically don't recommend moving in with my parents. i joke but it was in fact a tough time for me. i am being serious now. i suffered then during that period from real genuine depression. i still struggle with that. a really painful soul-searching time in my life.

very painful. i took a really depressing job which my parents forced me to take. thank you very much. when i was that this miserable job -- i've met a man of some faith and he began to share his faith with me, secular yale led gnostic. and with enough pain but was willing to listen to what he had to say. he was an episcopalian. they don't really believe that stuff anyway. please. so i said you can keep talking but he turned out to be someone who really believed this stuff. and new the bible backwards and forwards. i was challenged our conversations. i was not ready to accept what he was saying. not ready to pray or go to church or become weird or christian like many of you. not ready. but i was in enough pain to keep listening. this friend of mine said i

should pray that god would reveal himself to me. which seemed absurd. i thought i don't know if he is there so i don't want to -- to whom shall i pray? if he is not there. it is a conundrum. sometime during any of pain and i was to do silly thing that i did pray and i said in my anguish that was very real anguish, if you are there, please review yourself to me. punch a hole through the sheet rock. waved to me. say hello. a yourself to me. i was desperate. i would pray that prayer. help me, i need help. it was an honest prayer and prayers come from a place of honesty, not religiosity. if you consider help me, got here is that prayer. around my twenty-fifth birthday i had a dream. we don't have time to go into in this morning but it was an amazing dream. i'm not making this up. if you want to hear the story of

this amazing dream you can go to my web site which is just my name if you can spell it, metaxas.com. if you can spell it is still metaxas.com. it changed my life. god came into my life. jesus came into my life. except for the part of the ufo which i made up. watch that if you don't mind because it really happened. it is not made up. when god came into my life overnight, and entered that prayer i wondered why haven't i heard this before? was the have to suffer and not knowing? why? part of the reason is i rejected a phony religious idea of god. not got as he really is. when i encountered got as he really is i knew that is what my heart is longing for, the is the answer to my pain and all michelson's. he is real and he loves me

despite everything i have done. he is not some moral code or energy force. he is alive and a person and know everything about me. and about you. he knows my story. he knows your story. he knows your deepest fears. seen as the terrible selfish things you have done that hurt others. and he still loves you. and he knows the hurt that others have caused you. finos us. he is a lot of. is not joy killing bomber or a moralistic church lady. he is the most wonderful person imaginable. in fact his name is wonderful. who would reject that? at that point i realize everything i had rejected about god was not god. it was dead religion. people who go to church and not show the love of jesus and people who know the bible and use it as a weapon that people who don't practice what they preach and people are indifferent to the poor and

suffering and use religion as a way to exclude others from their group, as a way to judge others. i had rejected that. but jesus had also rejected that. he had railed against that and called people to real faith. jesus was and is the enemy of dead religion. [applause] that is true. that is true. that is my point of view. he came to deliver us from that. he railed against religious leaders of his day because he knew it was just a front. in their hearts they were far from god, his father. many was tempted in the desert who was the one throwing bible versus at him? satan. that is a perfect picture of that religion. using the words of god to do the opposite of what god does. it is grotesque when you think of it.

it is demonic. that summer as i came to face the guy who shared his faith with me gave me a copy of discipleship and asked if i had heard of bonhoeffer? no. he was a pastor who because of his faith in jesus stood up for the jews. i was shocked. my mother is german. she grew up during this period. what have i never heard this story about bonhoeffer? a remember thinking someone should write a book about bonhoeffer. i was not interested in writing biographies. are too self-centered. focusing on someone besides myself. i went on a career of children's books and wrote humor for the new york times and worked for the details. i knew. now you are listening. then i wanted to share my faith and wrote a book with a ridiculous title everything always wanted to know about god the was afraid to ask. three books. that is a trilogy.

am i getting that right? one day i found myself being interviewed on cnn about this book and was expecting one of those tough questions like how can a good god allow evil and suffering? instead i got a softball question. there's something in here about wilberforce and i had two sentences about wilberforce. can you talk about that? suddenly i am on cnn talking about wilberforce. all i knew was in the book. he was someone who took the bible so seriously that he changed the world forever. i start talking about him briefly. publisher calls me and says there's a movie coming out called amazing grace. i am sure you know the song amazing grace. we will sing it later. i didn't write the song. it was written by the fabulous mr. tony bennett. is he here? seriously. i was asked to write a book about wilberforce. i wrote a biography about wilberforce and everything ago

people say who are you going to write about next? some people ask me about whom will you next right? as a yale english major and want to recommend the word whom. english is your first language and some people in here it is your first language you can get it free as an apps on your iphone. use it as much as you want. about whom will you next right? there's only one person besides wilberforce about whom i would write if our work to write a second biography. i remembered bonhoeffer and i did write that book and have to tell you no one is more shocked about the reception of the book than i. know what is more grateful to the lord for the people who are reading and talking about this book. i know that it was read even by president george w. bush who is intellectually incurious as we all read. he read the book. no pressure. [laughter]

i just want to say no pressure. [laughter and applause] i know you are very busy, mr. president but sometimes you take plane rides and have time to kill. no pressure. no pressure at all. who am i to pressure you. nonetheless, the lives of both of these men illustrate the difference between phony religion and must change your life and the lives of others. wilberforce is best known for leading the movement to end the slave trade. why did he take that on? i am here to tell you it was not that he was a churchgoer because there were plenty of churchgoers

in england in the day of wilberforce and everybody in that they seemed to have no problem with slave trade or slavery. people who went to church. the reason wilberforce fought so hard was around his 20 sixth birthday he encountered jesus. really. england paid with service to religion in those days. we are christians. they really seem to think that it was a fine thing. when someone says i am a christian it might mean absolutely nothing. for wilberforce it became real. was not about christianity. it was about the living god and serving him and wilberforce took a bobble seriously. all of us are created in the image of god. he took his ideas seriously that it was our duty to care for the least of these and he said i

will obey. he thought politically. he fought hard. the only people really fighting with him at this point were the fanatical christian the. did you know that? all the churchgoers and religious people, they were not alongside him. who was alongside him? the born-again that's. the quakers and methodists that people made fun of. they were in the trenches because they knew they had no choice but to regard the africans as made in the image of god and worthy of our love and respect to. everyone else was just going with the flow. people who went to church got it wrong. they have not seen jesus. wilberforce took these ideas, these foreign ideas from the bible and brought them into a culture and you can read about it not just in my book which the president may read, but you can read about it. this is historical fact.

this is not my spin. wilberforce because he believed what the bible said and obeid what god told him to do change the world. to they think of this. we argue about how to help the poor. some say the public sector, government is the answer. others a free enterprise but today we argue about how to help the poor. not whether to help the poor. prius the lord. [applause] the idea to care for the poor and slavery is wrong. these ideas are not normal human ideas. these are biblical ideas. imported by wilberforce at a crucial time. human beings do not do the right thing apart from god's intervention. we always do the phony religious thing. we go with the flow. in wilberforce's they go with the flow meant supporting

slavery. africans are not fully human. in bonhoeffer's world it meant supporting the idea that jews are not fully human. so who do we say is not fully human today? who is expendable to us? please discuss amongst yourselves. thank you. back to nazi germany. this was of moment ago. my mother lived through this. this is a moment ago. i was in germany last week and met people who lived through this period. with an extraordinary thing to meet people who were the sons of heroes fighting against hitler. this was a moment ago that this horror happened. if you don't know who bonhoeffer is, bonhoeffer was born in 1906 on february 4th. two days from now. two days after my wife's birthday. she begged me not to mentioned

that her birthday was today but would you please stand up? please? don't be shy. come on. please. she is so shy. she hates the public aisle. i am sorry. are you sure you don't want to stand? come up for me on your birthday. all right. back to bonhoeffer. i try to. bonhoeffer was born into an amazing family. his father was the most famous psychiatrist in germany. this was a big important amazing family. at 14 he announced he wanted to be at theologian. got his doctorate at age 21. anyone else get a doctorate at age 21? me either. i began work a week ago. just started work on my honorary ct