things all around the world in the '90s. but what works better for us is what's done by private enterprise. however much we could spend, the budget's now about less than a billion dollars, three-quarters of which goes into broadcast. however much we can spend doesn't compare to the billions spent on the launch of a new computer by apple. that's where our reputation gets soiled. thank you all very much. i'm pleased you came this evening. [applause] >> is there a nonfiction author or book you'd like to see featured on booktv? send us an e-mail at booktv@cspan.org. or tweet us at twitter.com/booktv. >> and now, peter laufer talks about his two latest books at village books in bellingham,

washington. "calexico" is a study of life on the california/mexico border, while "no animals were harmed" looks at the fine line between animal entertainment and animal abuse. this is about 5 minutes. 45 minutes. [applause] >> it is terrific to be back here at village books and to be here in bellingham which is just such a spectacular city. freezing today, but gorgeous. the sun was just remarkable, the clouds -- you have to realize, i come up from eugene where as many of you may know, most of the year it is gray down to the what would be the grass and the river. not really. but not sparkling like it was here today in bellingham. and this is a special place for me, and i have to tell you why before i talk about the books. and it's really a great evening for me because two books came out of mine this season, and that's a rare occurrence.

they're very different books in many respects, and i've been thinking about it to be talking about it with you today, thinking about how it could be that they're so different, one of them "no animals were harmed," and it deals with the point where animal use becomes animal abuse and where is this line. it's a moving line, i think, for all of us. and everybody, everybody approaches this differently, maybe even with each animal it's different. and then "calexico: true lives of the border land." so a book about immigration and the border and a book about animal abuse. and be i've been thinking about this, and, in fact, maybe they're not that different in many respects. because with borders we're often abusing ourselves, and when you're looking at the point where animal use becomes animal

abuse, you're looking at a border. before i talk more about that and tell you something about the books and read some from them, i want to tell you why this is such a special place for me. i was here now it must be four years ago, the first time here at village books, one of the most magical independent bookstores in america. such a community builder. and this room was packed to overflowing. and it was the summertime. and it was hot. and just as is the case tonight, c-span was here as i was talking about a book of mine called "mission rejected." "mission rejected" is about soldiers who came back from the iraq war opposed to the war because of their experiences, or they chose not to deploy to the iraq war because they opposed the iraq war. and the room was packed with

people from bellingham and also with veterans because there was a veterans against war convention going on up at, i guess it was in seattle, and also up at the border. so it was a hot evening, the lights were on from the cameras as they are, as they are tonight, and i was wired as i am here with this microphone. so i couldn't, i couldn't take off my jacket. it was just hot and uncomfortable. and the subject matter was extraordinarily difficult to deal with. these stories of these soldiers that they told about why they became opposed to the war were sobering at best. so after talking for about an hour, during the question and answer period a woman raised her hand as is not uncommon in these kind of author events and said what's your next book going to be about. and i just wanted to get off stage at that point, and i said

this has been such a difficult assignment that my next book is going to be about butterflies and flowers. and it was a little bit of a titter through the crowd, and i said thank you very much and left. now, because c-span was running the talk on booktv in the lower third of the screen was my name and be my web site which led people to it to send e-mail messages. and about half of them came out as you would expect, calling me a traitor and hate mail because of the topic of the book, the subject matter of the book about people coming back from iraq opposed to the war, and about half were saying, yes, this is absolutely right, let's draw attention to what's wrong with this war. in the middle of those two extremes was a note from a woman from nicaragua. and she, she said you were making a joke about butterflies,

but my husband and i are american ex-pats living in granada, and we have a butterfly preserve down here. and if you come down, we will show you that, in fact, there is a book about butterflies. and, in fact, i -- well, i thought about it a while, i exchanged some e-mail messages with her, and finally it was my wife who said you've got to go down there because this looks like there might be something for you to check out. i went down there, and, in fact, i learned about the extraordinary world beyond just the enjoyment that so many of us have looking at butterflies which included butterfly smuggling of endangered butterfly species and thousands of dollars changing hands. that's why i have this butterfly pin on my lapel, because that evening here at village books changed my life. i wrote the book "the dangerous world of butterflies" which opened up the world of strange

things that go on with animals to me. and followed it with a book that -- and came back here and talked about it, and then followed it with a book about so-called exotic pets. and i was here last year talking about that book, "forbidden creatures," and learned about the kinds of people that -- well, i'm sure many of you remember just a few weeks ago the case in ohio where one of these types of people that find it appropriate and valuable to them for some reason and reasons that i had learned about collecting, obsessive collecting, a desire to attempt to show that they're able to control something that could potentially kill them, scare others as in the case with drug dealers. often these drug kingpins will have private zoos, but also

moguls in business, william william randolph hearst had a private zoo that became the san francisco public zoo. and so this case in ohio where the fellow, whatever was wrong with him, let these animals loose and then killed himself is an extreme example of those who have exotic pets. and that led to the third book, this one, "no animals were harmed," which is just coming out now. "no animals were harmed" looks a to the controversial line between entertainment and abuse with animals. and so that's why it's special to be here and to have c-span here tonight, because i would not have spent the last few years immersed in this world and come up with these three books. it's become a trilogy now of books about our interaction with animals. that so often is strange.

and one of the odd things, this afternoon i was speaking with a woman who's the executive director of the county humane society, and i hope i'm not going to write a fourth book that deals with bestiality which is one of these things where even just saying the word you kind of want to wash your hands. but watcomb county is, unfortunately, had been a headquarters for this kind of activity in part because there wasn't a washington law specifically forbidding it. there is now. there's a notorious case here which we are not going to talk about tonight. but maybe i'll be back in a year with the fourth book, and then it becomes a quartet. so where is this point where animal use becomes animal abuse? it really in many respects

probably depends on the animal. very few of us if a dog were growling here and bothering us right now would take a baseball bat and whack the dog and kill it, but probably most of us if a mosquito were flying around and landed on us would have no problem slapping the mosquito. many of us here would not have any problem after we talk about this going over to the mexican restaurant next door and ordering a burrito filled with chicken. and yet what is it that makes it so that there is a law against cockfighting here in washington and across all 50 states? this is what i looked at as i was working on the book and, in fact, cockfighting is a continuing reference point as i'm trying to come to terms with what is use and what is abuse.

i decided i wanted to see a cock fight so that i could grapple with that in person even though i myself don't eat chicken in part because i don't think that we should be twisting the necks of chickens just to eat them because we don't, we don't need to. i wanted to see a cock fight, what is it that makes it so that it's okay to raise chickens and eat the chickens, it's okay to raise the chickens and if you're having some problem with your chickens on your farm, you could kill all your chickens. it's okay. nothing illegal about that. you could kill all your chickens and take them to the dump. it's okay to do anything you want with those chickens, but you can't raise fighting cocks and engage in cock fights. and if you do, as has happened right here because not only the county a hotbed of bestiality,

it'ses also a hotbed of cockfighting and there recently was a cock fight busted here of consequence or cock fighters, lots and lots of birds, and that intersects with borders and immigration also because cockfighting has a connection with some ethnic groups that include those who have crossed the border from mexico and have come across that border without proper documentation. i'm looking here, how do i combine these books, and they really do combine. so you can eat the chicken, you can just kill the chicken if you decide that you're not going to engage in chicken farming anymore. you can't fight them, you can't have cock fights, but if there's a cock fight and it's busted by the authorities, if the the police come and break it up and

the humane society comes in after them, after the police or with the police which is usually what happens, the police know that they're going to make the raid, they get ahold of the humane society to say come with us, we need help because they need help on a number of levels. one is if you all aren't familiar intimately with cockfighting which i imagine just generalizing looking at you you aren't, they, the cock fighters cut off the spur -- there's a spur on what would be the ankle of the bird, and they cut off the natural spur and attach in that place a knife that extends way out. and that's among the different things that the birds do, they peck at each other, and they stab each other, and they slice even other. and -- each other. and so the police get there, and one of the things that they have to grapple with is getting the

bird without themselves being cut. i'm just remembering there's another connection here between the immigration tough, the border stuff -- stuff, the border stuff and the animals. a cock fight was raided down in tularie county, california, and one of those who, one of the participants or a member of the audience in the cock fight was slashed in the chaos of the raid, if i'm remembering the story correctly. he was injured, at least i knew that, i know that because he then died. and the suggestion is that he died because he didn't get his wound treated because he feared going to the hospital because of his immigration status. these are reaches perhaps, but there's connection here. there's no question there's a connection. and so we've got the raid going on, the humane society is there,

they're there to help the police deal with these armed birds, they're there to help them deal with evidence, too, because there are things that the sheriff's department may well not be trained to recognize as evidence. the special equipment that's used to tie the knives onto the ankles, certain types of anticoagulants and vitamins and other potions that are, that are specific to the cockfighting business and can be used as evidence because they're paraphernalia. so the humane society is there, they take control of the birds, they might -- this is in general, not just here in this county, across the country because cockfighting is illegal now in all 50 states, last one being louisiana -- and they, and they, they may make a tacit attempt at placing the birds in new homes.

would you like a rooster that's been bred and trained to fight in your barnyard fooling around the -- with the rest of your animals? probably not. so they can't place these for the most part. sometimes they can, but they can't. so what do they do with them? they kill them. they euthanize them to use the word that they like the use. so there is this moving target here, yes. what are you going to do with the birds? yes, should, should they be fighting? you can make a case for that they should not be fighting. but to stop them from fighting and then kill them? and the humane society people across the country, i've talked to many of them not just here, say, well, there's nothing else to do, and if you allow this to go on, then you are contributing

to the abuse of animals. animals used to satisfy some kind of blood lust of the people who fight them. and it has to be stopped. and even the bloodlines, some of them say, have to be stopped because these are bred to fight. okay. we'll get back to there in a minute because i want to juggle back over to the border. the book is "calexico: true lives of the border lands." calexico, if you don't know, is a border town in california right opposite the similarly-intriguingly-named mexicali. and usually the border is looked at through a metropolis, a megaop lis like san diego/ty wan ya or juarez/el paso. and i wanted to look at the border from another perspective.

and calexico n many respects, reversed expectations. mexicali on the mexico side is the metropolis. mexicali has the university, mexicali has the symphony, mexicali has the all-night nightclubs and the terrific restaurants, and there are a million and a half people. it's the capital of the state of baja, california. calexico has about 50,000 people, it's a agricultural crossroads, and it is in, it's in the shadow of mexicali. they create together a community and have ever since calexico was founded which was only just a couple of years over 100 years ago. it's founded because colorado river water was diverted into the imperial valley creating this extraordinarily productive

zone of agriculture. and that border community was borderless, essentially, pretty much up until the events of september 11th, 2011. and the community has been wracked by the attempts of the u.s. government or the seeming attempts of the u.s. government to seal the boarder and to keep people from -- border and to keep people from coming up from the mexico without authorization, of course, something that's impossible. now, one of the intriguing things about talking about the border is that it's something that everybody can agree about even though there is so much debate and disagreement about the border. and what everybody can agree about is that the border's broken. it's, it doesn't work. we've got a serious problem on our border. and it's interesting because in the same way animals, we all

agree about in a way too because we all engage in some kind of a relationship about animals. everybody has an animal story. everybody has a dog or a cat or hates dogs or hates cats. so to think about where is use and where is abuse and to think about what to do with the border, i see how it makes sense that i could write these two books at the same time and be intrigued by these two questions and that they do come together. and one in some ways helps us understand the other. so i lived for over two years in berlin right before the wall came down and right after the wall came down. perhaps the ultimate example of border and that kind of divisiveness. one of the things that i found extraordinarily eerie and be

uncomfortable -- and uncomfortable about witnessing what's happening in calexico is the similarity between what came down in berlin and what we all cheered about, what president ronald reagan said to gorbachev, mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall, shortly thereafter the wall did, in fact, come down -- not directly because of what ronald reagan said, of course, but we all cheered that bear nationally. get -- internationally. getting rid of that symbol. and we're building something that is not just the same kind of thing, it looks so similar to what i remember from berlin. of course, there's a great difference. you have in east germany this attempt by the government for the most part successful keeping its citizens from leaving, and here we're trying to keep mexicans and others from coming

north. but let me, let me read from the book, "calexico. true lives of the border lands." and give you a sense for how, how that felt to me as i was walking along the border, checking out that wall. i followed the wall west on anza road for a couple of miles. it turned into 1st street when i got back to town. in places the wall was opaque, a harsh blind spot making it impossible to see activity on the mexican side. its more sophisticated components leave viewing spaces between upright posts that are spaced tightly enough together to keep out even the skinniest migrant. this allows border patrol agents to keep track of activities on the mexican side. migrants preparing to make their move north. i could see the traffic backup

on the mexico side, cars and trucks iding for hours, spewing expensive gasoline as exhaust into the already-polluted imperial valley air. it looked so familiar, the wall, the cleared land, the flood lights. of course, this was no free fire zone. officer chavez and his fellow officers often save lives, especially far from urban centers as migrants struggle to survive a clandestine crossing. there's no -- [speaking spanish] here in america. our wall is reinforced with humane automation; motion detectors and cameras designed to alert the border patrol and guide officers to make arrests. still, consider this sobering reality. since 1993 when the nascent wall first appeared on the san

diego/tijuana line and migrants started looking east into the murderous desert for easier crossing points, many border crossers have died making the trek north from mexico than were killed by the -- [inaudible] in the entire 28-year lifetime of the berlin wall. in 2006 in a column titled "immigration 101 for beginners and non-texans," the late molly i've vens was typically succinct. no fence will work. the great darn wall of china will not work. do not build a fence, it will not work. they will come anyway over, under, through. ivens is often credited with the now-proved axiom if we build a 12-foot fence, they'll make a 13-foot ladder. the trouble is that this ugly tool is laying waste to the calexicos of the border lands,

the cost benefit ratio is absurd. and i'm realizing now just as i'm reading this passage from the book that we're here at a border also. and you all know the problems that have existed for border crossing since september 11th, 2001. in calexico the, it's not that the allegiances are different, the realities are different than they are in washington and mexico city. the people there know the community that they have that crosses the border the same way you undoubtedly know here that you have a community that crosses the border. but you don't have the harsh border they have there. nonetheless, there is something that might ring true to you here also because of border weights. and i saw it when i was driving up from eugene that there's a

highway sign that lets you know how long the border wait is. and this one said five or ten minutes as i recall whereas in calexico now the wait can be an hour and a half, two hours of that idling. and a couple of points from the passage i read, imperial county in california has the worst air quality, the worst water quality, the lowest income, the -- whatever the right terminology is about education, worst isn't a good word to use probably, but the graduation is the least. like, that's the maybe politically correct way to say that. and one epa official i spoke with, environmental protection administration agency, that fellow i spoke with said you can't drink the water on either side of the line, and that was really a sobering thing to hear, that on the california side also. so what i want to show you, the book is peppered with

photographs, and this is a sign that is all over or a legend that's all over in calexico. it came out of the chamber of commerce, and it says efficiency is security. and their point is that if you had efficient border crossing, this would help build the kind of security not just from a national security standpoint, but also from the standpoint of their economy which has been devastated because those people in mexicali traditionally came across to spend their money in calexico. not just because they were finding bargains or things that they couldn't find in mexico on the american side, but because they enjoyed the prestige of shopping in the u.s., they enjoyed the service, they enjoyed the follow through. because i heard stories down

there that you can buy something at the, at the walmart on the mexico side, or you can buy it, the same product, at the walmart on the u.s. side, and many mexicans would prefer to buy it on the u.s. side because they thought that they were treated better as customers. so the economy was hit hard. and what's such a surprise at looking at the borders through a calexico instead of the usual metropolis is to learn that the northern reaches of mexico are the richest part of mexico. the southern reaches of the u.s. worlder away from places like san diego and el paso in places like calexico are the poorest, often, or among the poorest in this country. so the whole thing is turned upside down from the stereotype which makes it an appropriate jumping-off place to look at the

border. i'm going to come back to "no animals were harmed." this is quite the juggling exercise, keep my schizophrenia straight. i met some fascinating people and, again, looking at this morality of what constitutes use and what constitutes abuse. one of the guys that i became friends with and one of the joys of being the kind of a journalist i am going out and immersing myself in a story like this is that those who are initially subjects and then sources under the best of circumstances can become friends. and this guy, you probably can't see him clearly here, but this guy is sticking his head into the mouth of a lion. and i had the opportunity to get to know him in budapest. he works with the hungarian

state circus, and he really does do that act that is the quintessential, stereotypical what does the lion tamer do. and just remarkable to watch. and in the intimate, in-the-round environs of the old scale eastern european, middle european circus so that you're as close as you guys are to me he is with these lions, a net between us and one has to wonder at least this one did how secure that net is. he puts his head in the lion, and i said to him, what are you thinking about when you put your head into the mouth of the lion? ..

>> this is one straightahead guy. he undoubtedly really is thinking that. he wants his head out. this lion is undoubtedly dashed to his raise this lion from a puppet i know they are not cops but he is raised this lion from a pop. he has a relationship with a. it's his business partner. they work together. he draws the distinction clearly. it's not a wild animal. really, because it never lived in the wild. it was born, captive bred and

born in captivity. it's something else but it's the same kind of thing iran into the book where an animal like, you might remember, captive bred in mr. in drink wine from s.t.e.m. class is an imported chocolates, slept in the bed of the owner. this was not a wild animal, it yet when it went amok it reverted to wild like characteristics. so is it reasonable for us to be reading, captive breeding animals for purposes like, she considered him her child. the chimpanzee travis. or the lion, for the purpose of being a circus act? is fast abuse? animal wouldn't be here if we didn't captive breeding and using for the.

when i talk to the lion tamer about that and he said this animal is in much better shape than it would be were it in the wild or were it in the same. i take spectacular care of the it has a dietitian. it gets special vitamins. it lives a very fine life. i don't have an answer after writing this book. i have a lot of questions. and i know those things are clearly passionate when michael vick is beating dogs to death, that's abuse. i went to a bullfight in portugal, in a crossroads town, nothing but tourists at all. when i got to the bullring it was like getting probably what it's like to get to the little league field here in bellingham. just locals, someone selling ice cream. and it was ghastly to see the

inapt corridor, something else in portugal, and the brutalizing of the bull. you couldn't kill one at the time, nonetheless the bull was clearly not going to make out of this alive. and then just direct by when it was all over, died during the event, dragged onto a flatbed truck to the dust and hobo. this was abuse. i can make that decision. that is abuse. but coming up with a global definition, what's abuse, that slapping hand for the mosquito, what is our relationship? the closest i got i think was to look at the problem being us, just as the problem with us with the border. so there's a euthanizing, the

fighting, ahead in the lion come and then there's the deacons that i interviewed in jefferson county jail outside of denver. he had been arrested and since then he's been convicted, of burning down two businesses in utah, one of them served -- and the other was a leather factory. and then he burned down a sheepskin factory, a factory that took sheepskins and made them into all sorts of consumer items. and again, he was arrested for that. when i interviewed him in jail, it was impossible not to knows the tattoos all over him, including right across here, right across his neck in big block letters, big black block letters the word vegan.

it was quite startling to see something or i told him and that enough as a pocket hired a to the duties he was the one with the special meal. that's my nephew sense of humor, but this guy was in jail for burning these places, and he said that the way we treat animals is worse than the not see holocaust forward to in relation to the jews, and that we had no business engaging in any kind of relationship with animals unless resources somewhere by the annals. so here's a guide who has made very specific distinction of what constitutes abuse, and then can rationalize burning places down because he thinks this is a war that he finds it necessary to engage in. now, there's the bud lite lady.

i'm in calexico, and i'm in ladies, a place to get lunch and was recommended to me by a border patrolman, and if it aboard a petroleum would know where to get the best mexican lunch in calexico. and he was right. up on the far wall facing the while eating lunch was a sparkling image, a mirrored beer advertisement tempting us with the bud lite and a dazzling senior rita. she looked at me with a seductive smile from under her cowboy hat. the buttons on her skimpy blouse struggled to contain her, and one thumb was hooked in the waistband of her jeans, but competing for attention with ms. bud lite was the background of the and. it was a map of the borderlands showing the major cities from the pacific to the gulf. and i look at where calexico is on the map, and there was

astride the border along with mexicali. but what the add screen, beer and sex, was, there was only one dot on the map representing both cities. in bud lite world, calexico and mexicali were one, just as they essentially were prior to the wall going up. no border formalities, no separating line, no berlin wall type of fortifications keeping their drink is a part. and the legend on the side reinforce the potent graphic display of the map. bud lite was making it official. there was no border separating mexico and unisys, at least that was my interpretation. after i finished it yesterday track down the party responsible for this corporate intrusion into international political policy, and i finally found juan

torres working hard in the st. louis office to compensate for the mess washington and mexico city made of the borderlands of he was selling bud lite at the same time. he holds the intriguing title of director of latino marketing at anheuser-busch. he knows how to sell beer and how to sell beer to mexican. american beer, that i figured was quite a challenge, facing down the likes pashtun juan torres knew exactly is talking but as soon as i mentioned the map. at first he referred to by its trade name, a back bar mirror, and any called it point-of-sale, and speak. but i wanted to know the subtext that i asked him what anheuser-busch was up to to this overt sociopolitical message, one point on the map for the borders district of the city were selling beer, but what moore was at work here? what it comes down who he says is it ties back to the entire

tagline, again with and speak. if you read on the creative, it says -- [speaking in spanish] translated it says this side and on that side, here or there, we share a heritage. out for a moment and refine his transition. are i guess more literally it would be we share roots. really, that's what it speaks to, the entire order culture, not just california but also texas, arizona and new mexico. what we are trying to say very subtly is that there is a shared culture whether you are officially on in mexican side or on the u.s. side. and i think you find that you also in bellingham, although it's not the radical difference, but it is our southern border. you, i know, are part of british, columbia, not listening to the cbc woman listing i can

-- driving of a. these artificial lines just don't work. so i wanted to see a fight. that illegal and it worked very hard to get into a fight even though are illegal. i came really close in louisiana, in alabama and in kentucky, but the guys that are running these things are nervous about journalists, understandably so. and so i ended up going to puerto rico because even though cockfights are illegal in all 50 states, they are legal in offshore u.s., albeit the stars & stripes. a little contradictory perhaps. and as i tried to come to terms with all of this, going to the cockfight, let me just quickly tell you, how it went.

the birds first of all are trimmed out to keep them light so they can jump higher and get at each other easier and that means that their feathers on the underside and on their legs are removed. so looking at them in a plexiglass boxes, they are on display prior to the fights he made a decision about who you want to bet on because this is all about betting. don't let anyone tell you otherwise. looking at them, they looked like they're walking around without any pants on basically, or they look like what they looked like in the safeway? under cellophane from the bottom but on the top, they are gorgeous. tailfeathers are plumed out. they get into plexiglass box. the ring is very steep ring for the audience. and down at the bottom is the cockpit. they come in on a -- a box comes across the top of this

nondescript building that is across from a fancy beach in san juan. din drops down to the cockpit, and a couple of handlers and agonize the birds with the dolls that look like chickens. then they're put back in the box and a separate opens up and come out fighting. more or less. they jump at each other, they get each other. they step on each other, and i found myself quickly bored, basically. i didn't find it as revolting as i thought it would and i didn't particularly enjoy it. it was just silly, was born. and it probably out not to go on, but it certainly didn't seem like it should be something that so consumes us as a culture when

we doing things like sending drones over to the pakistan-afghan border shooting up wedding parties. i just didn't come away with it, away from it with a kind of horror that i expected. i watched it for about an hour, and then i left. so, animals, here's the point where abuse becomes abuse. borders, are we abusing ourselves? my conclusion for the animals is, well, it's summed up by what a possum has taught us, and maybe some of you here will remember. we have met the enemy, bogle taught us, and he is us. i think we have to look at ourselves, and particularly this case in ohio where those animals were out there who are the wild animals that are out of control? they are uzbek we're the ones.

and with calexico, with the border, i have an exchange as i left the border region and i don't know if it's the case appear. i don't think it is but on our southern border after someone gets across the border, than about 100 miles and there's often a secondary checkpoint. and it's to snare those who manage to get across the first time. i came across a rise coming out of the imperial valley, the road was a two-lane blacktop, no getting around the checkpoint look like a tollbooth down at the bottom. and there is were i encountered the border patrolman. good morning, how are you doing today? he asked. it was border patrol and martina. i could tell he had his name right here underneath where my butterfly is. doing great, i said to tell about yourself? i was with my friend, marcus. good, thanks. he identified himself. united states border patrol. to you both u.s. citizens?

yes, agreed the great american but as my friend marcos. and the aryan american, that's me. have a good day, he dismissed us. all right. i acknowledge, but i want to talk. there was no traffic. he must have been lonely in this isolated post, to chat with him which is in good, and we might learn something. how about castling? when we find castling? we were mindlessly going to the desert with less than half a tank and we are decided the middle of bloody nowhere. turned this page. good news, castling is exactly 20 minutes straight ahead. time to get to work for me. i just have one question, mr. martina. how do you ascertain that we are citizens? you just said welcome that we are infected citizens but how do you make the determination that it's okay for us to keep going? based on the facts. but i can look at you, i can look inside your car. you guys aren't nervous with

speak to. i can pretty much tell you are not lying to me. people that aren't telling the truth, there's a lot of different signs that we are trained to look for. so i asked him what kind of science. a lot of different things. a lot of people shake. a lot of people get nervous. they won't make eye contact with you. what happens again. we run records checks and if they turn out to be a legal, i interrupted him. how do you determine the are illegal? based on the facts. what types of facts? if they are a u.s. citizen, he explained, they will know they are born here or they are naturally. they would've the process. they will know the day, the forms they develop, they will know everything. if they don't know those things, that's a pretty good indication to me to start asking more questions. but isn't it the case that we don't have to carry identification? we don't have to prove that we are u.s. citizens, right? that's true, that's true. but if i didn't believe you guys are u.s. citizens i would ask you more questions, where were

you born, what was the name of the hospital, where were your parents born? and i asked him, what then makes it so he realizes someone is illegal? two people confess question usually. usually if you keep asking questions you get into break. found that fascinating, that that so we are keeping people out of this country that we think we don't want in this country, or we claim we don't want in this country. so the conclusion of the animal book is, is us. the conclusion of the calexico book is ghana get rid of the restrictions for mexicans. led to mexicans who want to. no. they want to do here, just like we let canadians come down here. same kind of restrictions. they want to come up to steady them if they want to come up to her, if you want to come to disneyland, let them do. let's use all the manpower that

we have and the technical infrastructure to keep out those we really want to keep out. because under the current conditions, clearly anybody who really wants to come up here comes appear. so, i think i combined "no animals were harmed" and "calexico!" successfully so that it makes some sense that these two were written by the same split personality. and i thank you all so much for coming, and i hope you enjoy the books as much as i enjoyed telling it. thank you. [applause] >> you're watching booktv on c-span2, 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend. >> i would like to talk about

about michael, a soldier stream, and then ask darren and audience for any questions about it. this book came about as result of my rig an newspaper article article in the summer 2007 about a young american soldier who was being hailed as a martyr by iraqis. when i read that story i thought, boy, that sounds interesting, how did that happen, who is this man? he had died in an ied attack. the man's name was captain travis but in the history of the iraq war i've never heard of such a thing, about an american soldier being hailed as a martyr. this happened in a city that was spent at the center of the iraqi insurgency. in fact of the military memorial service for him and his fallen colleagues, army specialist and marine major, a delegation came in to pay their respects to the

fallen america's cup and to offer islamic prayers of mourning for them, which was a striking scene in the history of the iraq war. i had to find out more about this story. and as i interviewed scores of his american and iraqi college, i came to realize that perhaps his store is critical to understanding america's role on the world stage in the post-bin laden, post arab spring era. and maybe even to discover more about what it means to be an american. the historical impact of what travis patriquin and his colleagues did was rather striking. in fact, i came to realize that he was a key player at a key moment in the iraq war. in fact, the war began to turn around in mid-2006, months before the famous surge started happening. as patriquin and his military and intelligence colleagues help iraqis launched something that was called the awakening, which

was a sunni tribal revolt against al qaeda. al qaeda of course have never really conquered and held large pieces of territory in the world. there were some exceptions. but what happened in anbar province, when al qaeda basically conquered the province, and they set up a parallel government, sharia law, courts, a paralleled ministries even even of government, and the rule of this version of radical, radical islam, or anti-islam i recall, was so offensive that the local iraqis rebelled against it and we help them and the awakening was born. the awakening facilitated the surge in both turning point help save iraq from what was a total collapse, a total full scale civil war in 2006, to a different kind of outcome, which is still terribly dangerous but it transformed in the last five

years. and i first wanted to know who travis patriquin was but who was dismantle iraqi said helped shape the course of the iraq war. he was actually born in the midwest envy join the army on the day he finished high school in 1993. he was a devout catholic and christian who happened to be that passionate he refused to believe it is religion was right and other religions were wrong. in fact he studied the koran very carefully and concluded that authentic islam was our greatest ally. america's greatest out by in concrete al qaeda. and helping to inspire door but i thought that was a radical insight but it's early changed my views on islam and how we did on the world stage. he was fascinated with arab history, arab culture. arab food, arab poetry. he learned arabic, thanks to the

military for a year, over a year. he studied arabic intensively. they travel to the middle east to kuwait, jordan, and plunged into middle eastern culture. and he loved it. he became a special forces support soldier, and he went to afghanistan in 2002 in the first wave of american soldiers to strike back at al qaeda and the taliban after 9/11, and he won a bronze star for the troops in combat there. know, in 2005 he was assigned to be the tribal affairs officer for the u.s. military in ramadi, iraq, which was one journalist called it the most fun to make place on earth. reporters would scamper through the ruins of vermont and say this reminds me of images of hiroshima and dresden and stalingrad. it had collapsed completely. it was the provincial capital of anbar province and basically the hecklers of the al qaeda that

were attempting to launch in iraq. right away three things are obvious to travis patriquin and is called forget to attack al qaeda forces with firepower, and they also had to rebuild the shattered local iraqi police force and reach out to the remaining tribal sheiks, a lot of whom had fled the horror of this. there weren't many left. although he was only a junior officer, patriquin became the key liaison between the military and the sunni shakes and attempts to launch the awakening movement that helped transform war. i think travis patriquin is a symbol not only of the american to serve in iraq but the americans who have died and many americans both help the iraqis tried to build a new nation out of the horror of this war. perhaps the best understanding who patriquin was was to hear what iraqis say about him, what they told me. in the words of a shake with and

integrate the awakening movement, travis patriquin was go and extraordinary men who played a very, very important role. he was my brother. he spoke arabic and he looked like an arab man. when he came at the start of the awakening, we needed someone like him. he was humble and friendly, and he was always helping me. he helped us with weapons and ammunition. he helped deliver food to people who need help, our intel. antidefense women and children against the terrorists. he was very the important building rapport between the u.s. and the shakes. captain patriquin was extorted. one baghdad born interpreter told me patriquin was in love with the wreckage was addicted to the culture. he was obsessed by. he loved the food, the people. he loved everything about the right. another baghdad born interpreter told me iraqis can like you, but they loved him for a lot of respect he had a magical

personality and a trustful face. his presence was noted in the daily. iraqis love to talk to men with a mustache. and he had a mustache, second, dark skin. he looked like an air. besides that, his heart was connecting to these people. for the average american soldier, iraqis could be hard to sit down and talk to, but what iraqis sat down with travis patriquin, they could tell he enjoyed eating with his hands. he gave iraqis the most honorable and honest picture of the american people and the american military in particular. they thought he was the true american art. this iraqi born interpreter concluded, my god, there was an inward who could afford a closer connection with the iraqi people than travis did. they adored him. a former iraqi air force general told me, americans haven't appreciated the lesson of what patriquin and his colleagues

did. it was a miracle, an absolute miracle, america has not learned the lesson it should have. we need people like patriquin in the american military, not just for iraq but for all the middle east, afghanistan, pakistan and elsewhere. people who are principled and people who can win the hearts and minds of the people with their culture and their mind, not the weapons. patriquin thought he had to reach out to the press roots. we couldn't do things from the top 10 is the iraqi government was nonexistent or horribly dysfunctional. many american policymakers were trying to force things from the top 10. that was not working. he also thought we should reach out to insurgents. he that we should identify insurgents who were reconcilable and the gushi with them and talk to them and tried to flip them over to our side to fight al qaeda because the insurgency of course was very factionalized. and patrick would also thought that we had to be humble and

show respect to iraqis and deal with iraq on its own terms rather than try to make us -- make them more like us. he said if you want to stabilize things you have to cut the crap and all this idealism, and and deal with the shieks. now, they shiek it was his iraqi partner in all this, launch the awakening, really great office, was comes and people thought, the tony soprano of western iraq. he was an alleged danger, a really rough character. he was also an inspiring leader it turned out. is only in his late '30s, and he was the man who declared war on al qaeda. his closest american contact in this war was travis patriquin. and patriquin told anyone who would listen, he is the