i think what we have seen is hysterically traditional western focus on what are often terms civil and political rights and freedom of assembly and association, freedom of expression, and then in a second wave driven largely by countries in the global south and assertion that human rights must look at questions of the socioeconomic development and the advantage of a disadvantage and the adoption on the cultural rights, the whole set of u.n. resolutions that are introduced and passed year after year on these rights. is there really -- as amnesty

international acknowledging our role as a global movement that unites people worldwide uppermost for all the members of that movement, not just some is there any kind of turning back the clock on this? is this a live debate now or how do you see leveling the current state of the discussion with your ideas given the way that things have unfolded, and the fact that this language of rights is not so much in the u.s. domestic context, they are not very often invoked here although we think more and more they are beginning to be, but certainly globally they are difficult to contest.

>> that is a great question. i want to say a few things. one, i absolutely see the dynamic and the way that the human rights advocates would be, would feel compelled to move into different areas because those are the kind of concerns that are foremost in the minds of many of the people they are dealing with, and in many ways i see this as an advance we should be happy about and proud of, and in my discussion i only want to also raise some small capitals, and yet on the course of what might change now it seems to me

this is always evolving and that the way that the notion of the rights have captured the imagination of so many people, it's also the case that we see the movements focused on other things, and this is why the arab spring fascinates me and i wish i had the opportunity to address them in the book because one could easily have seen these as premier li human rights movement and articulate in that way. but they weren't. the arab spring had the element but it was also a movement about the democracy and framed in those terms and its anti-corruption much more so than the right to food or any particular thing.

i want there to be room for thinking about these issues and other ways so the worry is that the rights. the idea that there's all these other utopian movements and ideas that have become discredited. human rights is what is left and it's become the repository for the energy that once was forming into the postcolonial struggle or communism or socialism or any number of other political movements. and i hope i emphasize this in the book, but there are many advantages to this in the way that now understanding these issues in terms of rights reflect the majority and the modesty in the sense we can't

change the regime that we can at least make sure that it doesn't violate a certain set of rights. we may not be able to change the world and know exactly what to do in each context we can make sure things don't get too bad were pushed for this improvement. that is the real strength of the human rights movement, and i want to emphasize that. but i also want to say that i hope that there is room for thinking more comprehensively, and that i think it's probably a good thing that the current education in india is the rights under focused on corruption that is a different lens that's needed. and of course something with the arab spurring is hard to say how it will shape up, but so yes the horses out of the oncoming and

yet every new instance is another instance to leave the normal not, or in other words i won't carry the metaphor any further, but i want to leave -- mabey this book will make tiny contribution in leaving the possibility for taking these issues and other ways also. >> host: let me ask about a practical the example that is close at hand. the current debate over the income disparity in this country and the fact we have a presidential candidate we think was just reported as being the wealthiest in american history with a quarter of a billion dollars to his name tax rate is 15%. is that a violation of anyone's

rights? is our system of income distribution something that interferes with the realization of rights or does the language of rights has any role in this debate and in the movement and in the effort to call attention and demand some redress of those disparities here in the country? >> guest: that's an interesting question. it's not the first language i would choose to deal with those questions, and it's interesting that occupy wall street for instance is not primarily the rights based movement you don't hear a lot of discussion from them about and you could easily imagine the right to a job or the right to equity, but very powerfully focused to the imagination of lots of americans on income distribution whether the 99% or quite a metaphor and

its it wasn't primarily in terms of rights, sola gannet focus is still somewhat unfocused and it's a difficult movement when they first began. could rights play a role? i could construct some rights arguments around the equity. i would probably start with how 89 people but effective right to vote. they distort the political process and the degree to which money influences the political system that we are moving further and further away from a real democracy and the republican form of government. i think i heard someone already make the argument that some point in come in disparity might violate the constitutional rights to the republican form of government and if so i wouldn't be opposed to them, but i find this odd that we are the main way that we went about thinking

about this issue that had such obvious resonance in terms of dhaka struggles about equity and a class relations and what have you. >> host: you talk in the book about how rights need to be sort of situation in their context, and i am paraphrasing, and you should by all means correct this if we don't have your right, but i think the idea is the rights become meaningful and a political context and they can't be understood sort of divorced from that social in which they are being asserted or applied. do you worry that acknowledging that can become a kind of cover justification for the

traditional arguments about cultural relativism and moral relativism, the idea that women's rights mean something different under sharia law and freedom of expression in the chinese context is something other than what we know or the racial equality and the jim crow south wasn't something the was culturally grounded. how do you distinguish what you say from those longstanding at least in the rights of the human rights advocates. islamic i do want to distinguish landsea from those arguments because they don't accept that kind of relative to some tall. but i want to suggest is that the right the way they actually operate involves interacting with institutions and the culture coming and what i want

to advance the idea that one can't take the abstract and imagine it can be placed down and put together context and work the same way every time so let's take the example of the jim crow south for example. one attempted to imagine what happened is we had the right to the racial equality and the context was articulated and then that right was imposed on the jim crow south, and the american society changed as a result of the articulation of the right and it's in position. but what really happened is the right changed people's hearts and minds. it changed the mind of people in power and more than just the right, but the idea, and so the culture changed particularly in the jim crow south. but today the reason i can expect to enjoy reasonably courteous service on wanted to

encounter in the former confederacy is because the culture has changed to the extent most people want to deny the service anymore. and that is a process that involves the relationship between the legal intervention and political institutions and economic institutions on the ground, and the degree to which rights and legal entitlements only work in the context in which they are widely accepted. i think that's important to emphasize. the most important victory of the american civil rights movement is making the racism discredited, making it something people were ashamed of, not simply direct legal enforcement and that's going to be true in other contexts as well. >> i think what you are saying is there is an interplay in the

context that its assertion shapes that cultural context and we see that playing out right now in this country and around the world where sometimes the rights this course ahead and can pull the society along, and i think that at least for the perspective of the amnesty international human rights advocate, that is an important role, the rights of the discussion to have that catalytic effect on the culture and society that don't feel ready but the need to be jump started and pushed to get to a different place. we are out of time. i want to thank you for this discussion. i've learned a great deal and and really pleased to meet you and have the chance to get your book. >> guest: thank you. i really enjoyed it.

governor bobby jindal is revealed his proposal for they state budget for the next fiscal year to date. a budget $900 million in the red. in shreveport is mostly cloudy and 37 degrees at the airport, 38 in edmonton. you are listening to the shreveport news and weather station. >> next week in book tv and american history etd explore the history of the literary culture of shreveport louisiana. saturday starting at noon eastern on book tv on c-span2 author garrey on the union army failure in louisiana from one blunder from beginning to end the river can panicky team 64.

book tv attended a party for the publication of "shooting from the lip: the life of senator al simpson" written by senator simpson's former press secretary and chief of staff donald hardy. among those in attendance, vice president cheney and supreme court justice clarence thomas. this is about 40 minutes.

>> we are here to celebrate your book. >> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i haven't got my good shoes on, but i am here.

[inaudible conversations] she picked up extra down there and how the 20%. has my wife arrived yet? >> i don't believe so. [inaudible conversations] my name is don hardy. >> he is the author of the book. [inaudible conversations]

>> there's got to be about eight volumes. [laughter] you didn't object to that, did you? [laughter] >> you know annie and jimmy do you know jim billington of course. [inaudible conversations]

anyway, we love your christmas card. [inaudible conversations] did you go to the game in laramie nebraska? [inaudible conversations] >> okay. here we go. my god. call the cops. [laughter] [inaudible conversations]

>> how are you? [inaudible conversations] did uzi annie? she's here. >> no, i haven't. that's what david said. she didn't show up. >> [inaudible conversations] the >> i do. i just said - to norma. >> [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] how about your dad? >> he is 101 and still trucking. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> hello, hello. >> [inaudible conversations] >> thank you for coming this is just madness.

[inaudible conversations] it has a tax starting november november 8th -- [inaudible conversations] >> he calls it ludicrous founded and i call would deceptive. [inaudible conversations]

>> would you mind posing for one of our members of the press? >> i didn't write this book. i don't get any money out of this book. the money all goes to the author. i don't get any. it's true. >> thank you so much, sir. thank you. >> you're welcome. >> i used to work with michael in the senator thurman's office in the 80's. we are big fans of yours. >> i need him in my line of work. >> it's nice to see you and i can't wait to read it. >> i didn't write it, but it's a great book.

[inaudible conversations] >> thank you, senator. thank you. >> you haven't changed a bit. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> i got there in 1988 and he gave me a list and said you want to know who i think common shares who i pay attention to. they had a couple of names on that. he was the chairman of the board, there for eight years. [inaudible conversations] spinnaker was a pleasure meeting you.

>> [inaudible conversations] >> who is there? the bodyguard. >> my publisher told me to ask one thing who are you going to vote for the republican nominee? >> all i can tell you this republicans have a beautiful ability to give each other the timoney and then they lose and bitch for four years. that's what they do. de bitch for four years and say how we get this? 20% if you voted for ross perot, don't give me any. [laughter] >> but you haven't answered my question. [laughter] spec i have to say i just wrote a check yesterday to mitt romney. >> how much? >> it's for a thousand dollars. i could do lot more but i didn't

get anything from this book. i weighed in because i have effectively pissed off everyone in america. we know we've succeeded so far because we have pissed off everyone in america and we go all over the country with 500,000 people speak to people are the worst thing for someone to tell them. [inaudible] polis obamacare or elvis presley care. [inaudible conversations] >> good to see you.

>> enjoy a little bit of cody coming to d.c.. >> who are these people? >> i know, i know. >> all of your fans. >> it is bizarre. but i don't get a nickel off this book. >> you have to change that. [inaudible conversations] >> i read it as a preview first and then as a leader and reading it as a leader -- >> it's a lot more fun? >> i can't wait to read it. [inaudible] >> are you kidding me? this is the only thing he wants.

>> get in here. you are so dear to come to this. >> he loves you. are you kidding me, this man loves you. >> he is a great guy. we used to work the other state and we used to do a helluva lot of business, boy did we ever. i really miss you all. i miss you, too. >> he doesn't want to go to anything. he called back and he said deborah, i have to go to an event. >> i was working my way up but i didn't get there. anne is here. there she is right over there. >> how are you doing? >> i am doing so well [inaudible

conversations] by the way, you may forget that you arrange for them to get married and howard baker room. >> everything is working well? >> well, we are still together -- [inaudible] >> anyway, thank you so much. >> how are you? >> getting in as much trouble as i can. i am freelancing and working on my own book. >> about my dad. >> is living? >> no, he died at 100. [inaudible conversations]

>> anne is over there. >> my god, who is this man. >> i know who we it is. it is david. it's david brinkley come back from the dead. [inaudible] how much are they? >> i don't know. i didn't write it? >> you didn't write it? [inaudible conversations] >> anne is right here.

sam and gen want to get a picture. there she is. >> on here because of you. >> right here, please. [inaudible conversations] wanting to raise the taxes and revenue. >> we are going to have to. [laughter] >> the author and his wife, dawn and becky and nathan, six years on this. i'm surprised they finished it in such a quick time with the

way that you are. [laughter] >> go ahead, tell c-span. >> these are pals of mine. >> how are you? >> your book will get special attention. >> we've already bought it but i told him i wanted you to write something. [inaudible conversations] i can do it tomorrow some time. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> the books that need extra care, and because i've been going to tomorrow between all -- i didn't write it. i'm not the author. >> i forgot about that. >> anyway, i want to add some special notes to this. >> does that mean you will never get it done?

>> is that my peace? >> anyway, john dean al qaim. i love that guy. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> i've got to get a picture. anne, can i get a picture? it's one of those -- it's a brand new thing. >> this is one of my students at harvard. this is one of my finest students. >> i'm at the white house now. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> i wish i could have been the author. [inaudible conversations]

>> you remember my wife, sarah, right? [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> i've done that. >> i believe it. >> the car would drive up and i would think -- i would go out and start loaded and we are sitting there [inaudible conversations]

>> with the attorney general in arizona. -- past president of the nra. [inaudible conversations] >> we need people in congress like you. >> it's great to see you. >> you would like to get out of here, wouldn't you?

[inaudible conversations] >> who bought it? [inaudible conversations] [applause] >> good evening, everyone. i didn't hear you. hi, everyone. i am thrilled to welcome you to this special evening for a very dear friend of all of ours coming and we are here the fabulous hotel, the jefferson. i would like to introduce you to peter grossman, one of our co-host's. peter, will you come in and say

hello? [applause] >> thank you. just very briefly on behalf of connie come on the and the jefferson. [laughter] >> i hope that's better. we are thrilled to be hosting senator simpson and his former chief of staff and biographer donald hardy this evening. we are excited to hear from both of them about the book, "shooting from the lip," which i guess is fitting. [laughter] connie was also very proud last year at a dinner on behalf of the commission, then to further support it and its effort so i think everybody knows on the deficit reduction not sure that anybody really listened after they got done but at least they put in the effort. that is a political by the way. so, in a different -- in addition, connie noted that it was no surprise to her at a time that based on senator simpson's record in the senate, his by partisanship work that he would be chosen to be a co-chair of

that commission. and last, we just want to say that as we understand, mr. hardy had full access to senator simpson's records, of diaries, volumes, full access. [laughter] and i will say he could mention he's been married 57 years, so anybody that gives full access after 57 years, i think that's pretty impressive. connie really just wanted to welcome everybody and say we are thrilled to be sponsoring this. [applause] >> now we have the pleasure of introducing wyckoff the bravest man in the world, don hardy, the author of the book. i don't know how you could possibly put all of this in one book and decide what to leave in and what to take out. as someone that had senator simpson on msnbc, cnn and fox, and you have changed the

conversation about politics, the culture, about what is important in a were country and don had to put that in how many pages? 460. so these and gentlemen, don hardy. [applause] >> would treat this is. thank you. he told me if i got in front of a crowd like this since the standing in the shadows and should be careful what you say because one day you were the toast of the town and the next day you are just coast. [laughter] sitting tool. thank you, peter and tammie and carol levenson as an amazing guy. i met him. [applause] he wrote with wayne bailey at the column alignment in 18 years ago in china. he was a great guy then and now. i hope you all get to meet him. if it hadn't been for him, we wouldn't be here tonight.

so, and jackie, wherever she is. without her the invitation list would have been a mess. i have known al simpson for just over 50 years. i grew up in wyoming and i heard all the stories when i was a kid and then i tried to do them myself a few years later and he helped me out of that. i worked 18 years. i was press secretary and then chief of staff, responsible for all mistakes, -- [laughter] win al went to retire and went to harvard, i went to the smithsonian and was in charge of government there for awhile. my wonderful wife, rebecca, who is right here, i'm telling you i couldn't have written this book without her. [applause] she researched and she put up

sleeping at 4 o'clock in the morning and she is amazing. so, we were overseas and did a bunch of work with charities and people and ended up on a sailboat and one day in 2005 the phone connected for some reason to some tower, and it rang and it was al simpson, and he said these guys want to write a story of my life. and they don't know me as well as you do. would you like to take a shot at it? and i said -- because a was a good life -- [laughter] just a second, al. i'm having trouble getting the cork out of this bottle of chardonnay. [laughter] but i did, and i said why would i do that? and he said because i will give you access to everything in my life everything. and i thought i knew a lot. but all of his records, his papers, his speeches, his personal letters from the family members, it was all there. everything i could possibly

want. and especially the diaries. 6,000 pages worth of diaries. 19 binders, and people like david mccullough said the reason these are valuable as they were put down as things happened. so i was at the white house talking to gorbachev or saddam hussein, and he took notes and then he dictated it into this diary that in the up being to plead for million words. [inaudible] [laughter] so, we set sail for the united states, and al said how long is this going to take? i said about a year. that was in 2005. [laughter] i said something that's really important, people know that i worked for you and i was loyal to you, and you've been my friend for half a century. bigger going to expect this thing will be a puff piece, and it's very important a not think

that after they read it. so i said, you know, this is going to be important that i tell the bad things and the failures in balance along with all of the success. and al said look, you just do the right thing by telling the truth. he said if hair, lilos and keithley and on the floor as a result of telling the truth about me, so be it. [laughter] i also said i have to have editorial control. if you write anything in this book, people are going to think it is a puff piece, and also coming you can't have any money. [laughter] and so, i hold a contract with that with the university of oklahoma press. al said say when you want, but make it true. so i did.

the first three pages describe what it's like to push a car off a cliff and bring down a house and shoot boxes to end up on probation. [laughter] the reason that's important is that. probably half of you have written books about politics. the bill goes here, goes there, gets past, doesn't get passed, whatever. this is a book about humanity. about a human being. he happened to be a politician, but this is a story about a person who is extremely human. a person who puts citizenship ahead of partisanship. and that's why it was important to tell the story. and it goes back to the days in which republicans and democrats spoke to each other and respected each other. and it doesn't happen as much anymore. but flexible, al simpson was a

great friend of ted kennedy. they spoke lead into his life, and people didn't know that and they didn't understand it in wyoming especially. [laughter] so, there's one little story i have to tell you that kind of demonstrates the days in which there was a friendship because either one of these guys could get the microphone and tell the exact same story. it involves a town meeting in wyoming. you know where people come in and raise their hands and are upset about something in this meeting is going on and he is presiding over it, and in the door comes ted kennedy and people can't believe it. the guy in the tax is what is he doing in wyoming? and another guy stands up and says he's here in wyoming, and he is a horses ass. simpson wants to the back of the room, grabs him and throws him into a snowbank and when he

comes back kennedy says the was magnificent. i had no idea this was kennedy country. [laughter] al looked him and said it's not, it's horse country. [applause] senator al simpson. [applause] >> this is beyond repair. [laughter] several people have come up to me and said al, let me tell you a new story. i said go ahead. jeez, well i will save it for leader. [laughter] if i started around this room, there are some wonderful people. i'm not plan to do that, haven't had a drink, will little later, but i have to say don hardy took

this over and what he really forgot to say is when he was 17 he borrowed a car, i think it was a webster chevrolet rental and drove it to seattle. it wasn't a rental. was called astelin. he came to me and said i heard you were a master. come on in here. you wore a very salvageable human being. [laughter] so we were linked at the hip way back then. that is a true story. [laughter] he's done a beautiful job. it's a great book. i read it as a proofreader three times thinking i found this and that and i would take him up and then i read it as a reader would read a book and i had long been life rhode that lasted throughout. so it's very and it's a beautiful book and i love it. things could have been left out but -- [laughter]

the day that i slugged a called in the laramie, called al, she is here. would you step up? [applause] and i said i need $300 bail. on in the clink. she supply and working my way through school. i don't have 300. just stay there. [laughter] i thought i need to marry her. saving myself. [laughter] and then in this room is another great and dear friend, dick and lynn cheney and i will tell you about his experiences especially at the university of wyoming which would make mine pale. [laughter] i tell you we've ran together in 1978. he ran for the congress, i ran for the senate and dick and lynn and dick and anne and i have rud neither of us ever lost an

election so that is a tribute to you. [applause] and then back their standing next to him is the little rascal i met on barbwire. he was in the japanese relocation center in heart mountain wyoming as a 12-year-old boy, and our scoutmaster said we are going to go to heart mountain and meet the boy scouts. well, who -- i tell you, nobody wanted to go to hard mountain. it had one year all around, guard towers, machine guns coming and it was one of those of ten relocation centers. and we had a scoutmaster. he said these are guys just like us. they are boy scouts. i ran into this guy in san jose and he was smart, just like i was. [laughter] and he picked on us, so we dug a little trench right towards his cabin command during the night it rained like hell.

we just laughed. he said i laughed more than he did. [laughter] that's a friendship deep. [inaudible] [laughter] >> when i read him as the mayor i wrote and said remember tip and cody and restarted to correspond in congress and served on the board of regents on the smithsonian. so these are great memories. but as i say, dick and lynn, that goes back 40 some years. i could go back to nina totenburg. shia all i had some spirited words. let me tell you she in the days, when i was at harvard we had the most wonderful time together. her father still playing the violin. and we had a lot of fun. and i always -- if you can't forgive a person it's like letting them live in your head of rent-free. don't miss that.

it's not a funny statement. if you can't forgive a person or in the shower thinking that son of a bitch, and he's out golfing. [laughter] so what do you gain from that? and then of course billington is working over here. i can't go through all this. clarence thomas was here. amazing things you go through. i met anita hill. i met her -- legacy to people why don't you move on? what is the purpose of keeping tabs seeding? there are the cedars and the seekers and i prefer the sea comes. anyway, bill clinton. he's up for the library of congress. another guy of there a real wizard and the staff, ronald reagan's staff wanted that guy so i am assuming next to ronald reagan i said i really love the guy. i in his diary a lot, i tell you. i said i think you want to think

of this guy billington. he said yeah? why would that be? i said he hates commies. [laughter] and i said not only that, he knows russian fluently. he can tell just exactly when those sons of bitches are saying and he said really? three days later -- [laughter] still the library of congress. [applause] great story. john dingell, where is that rascal back there? he and i -- [inaudible] i know, but i can't stop. [laughter] week used to meet on the conference committees, and he would say look, we are going to get this done. and i said who are you going to nibble before the ten days is over and he named a guy. he said why don't you do something with the staff of that committee and the senate?

i said i can't. they are tougher than i am. then we got together and beat them to bits. and we were on the iraq study group to get it is important. what the hell has happened? the word compromise now means you are a whimp. that's madness. and here is bruce reed, the executive director of the commission on cochaired by ernst and and i wrote idaho. i don't know how he got into that. i'm not going to go any further i see you looking over there, one of my citizens at harvard. ..