entity. we have the highest percentage of any publisher in america so you can get all of our books at wmdbooks.com. >> josette has been our guest on booktv at the conservative political action conference. .. >> i can't believe it, what are you doing here? >> well, we're here to celebrate your book.

>> where's annie? >> hi. [inaudible conversations] >> it's not my book. it's the most heartbreaking -- [inaudible conversations] >> you could still write one. >> oh, man. took him six years. >> after he'd done it -- [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> senator, how are you doing? >> i haven't got my good shoes on, but i'm here.

>> anyway, you're dear to do this. >> you look great. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> can i say hi? my name is don hardy. >> he's the author of the book. >> so modest. >> oh, here you go. oh, oh, oh. >> troublemaker. [laughter] >> hi! >> ginni, how are you? >> thanks for being here. >> what has it got to be about

eight volumes? >> shooting from the lip. [laughter] >> you didn't object to that, did you? >> no, i didn't write the book. >> ginni thomas, clarence. and you know jim billingson, of course. this is clarence thomas. how dear of you to -- oh, elizabeth. you're dear to come. [inaudible conversations] >> and bob would be here -- [inaudible conversations] >> he doesn't want any part of this.

anyway, we loved your christmas card. you didn't have to do that. >> well, you know, we were -- [inaudible conversations] we made it to deadwood. >> did you go to that wyoming game at laramie? >> no, no. did you go? >> no, i didn't get down to it either. [inaudible conversations] >> okay, what are we doing? [inaudible conversations] >> this is bizarre. oh, annie. this is more fun than i've had -- [laughter] >> bill, you ornery old -- >> senator. >> he's the doctor.

[inaudible conversations] >> they haven't got me, but they're 80. did you see annie? >> no, i'm going to go look for her. that's what david said to me -- >> how is david? >> he's good. >> i just said hi to norm. >> anyway, we met as 12-year-old boys. at the japanese relocation center. he was behind barbed wire. [inaudible conversations] he'll never forget when he took me -- >> that was fun. we were -- [inaudible conversations] >> i said, you never told me. you didn't know. >> i didn't want. [inaudible conversations] >> oh, there she is.

right there, that beautiful -- she's talking to elizabeth dole. that that's white-haired lady with the gray jacket. how about your dad? >> he's 101. >> al abrams. >> oh, i worked for him -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> hello, hello! >> he was claiming he was alan simpson. >> no, i'd never do that. i'm not tall enough. >> al abrams? well, you tell al, give him the usual greeting, you ornery old goat. >> i will, just for you. >> thank you for coming by. this is madness. who was that? who was that? some phantom. >> secretary of transportation, you have a longstanding relationship -- [inaudible conversations]

>> starting out minimum wage, so -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] >> grover calls it a tax increase, he called it ludicrous, tom did, and i call it deceptive. >> yeah. tom's helping on this. [inaudible conversations] >> i'm gaining ground. [laughter] >> well, that's good. ann is in there.

>> oh, she's in there? >> sam donaldson said -- [inaudible conversations] >> the money all goes to the author. i don't get any. [laughter] it's true. >> thank you so much, sir. >> you're very welcome. >> senator, i used to work with -- [inaudible] in senator thurmonde back in the '80s, and we are big fans of yours. >> i need them in my line of work. >> oh, well, you're a sweetheart. so nice to meet you, and i can't wait to read it. >> well, i didn't write it, but it's a good book. [laughter] >> we are getting one for his

mom and dad. thank you, senator. it's great to see you. >> it'll just tear their heart out. >> oh. [laughter] >> tears will stream down -- >> you haven't changed a bit. >> how are you? [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> true story.

>> i was the press secretary on the house side, and i got there in 1988. by boss gave me -- doing great. see him all the time. he gave me a list, and he said if you want to know how i think, here's who you pay attention to, and yours was the first name in the senate. it only had a couple names finish. >> well, he went to -- >> he was the chairman to have board there for eight years. >> i spoke there. >> i had dinner with him about six weeks ago, he's doing great. >> he's not doing the -- [inaudible] >> he said eight years was enough. but he still has a home there. >> oh, they're very dear people. well, you're kind to come. this is madness. >> really a pleasure meeting you. >> i didn't write the book, but it's good. >> i'm still here as your bodyguard, baby. [laughter]

>> who is that over there, the bodyguard? >> my editors have told me to ask you one question. >> anything you wish. >> who are you going to support for the republican nominee? >> i'm 80 years old, all i can tell you is republicans have a beautiful ability to give each other the saliva test of security, and then they lose and they bitch for four years. >> i've got remember that. >> that's exactly what they do. [laughter] but they don't -- they bitch for four years. they say how do we get this, and they say, well, 20% of you voted for ross perot, you jerk, don't give me any of your lectures. [laughter] >> now, you haven't answered my question. >> no, i'm not going to. [laughter] >> i told you i wasn't going to. >> i would have to say i just wrote a check yesterday to womanny. -- romney? >> for how much? >> it was for a thousand bucks. i could have done more, but i don't get anything for this book. >> he said he's hoping to get paid for this book. >> no. i just waited because i have

effectively pissed off everyone in america with the co-chairmanship of this commission. >> yeah, but you were -- >> and we know we've succeeded so far because we have pissed off everyone in america. ander skin and i go all over this country, spoken to about 50,000 people. we don't do bullshit or mud, and we get a standing ovation. people are thirsting, thirsting for someone to tell them what -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] a trillion bucks and how you stabilize social security. doesn't matter what you call it. call it elvis presley care, it can't work. anyway -- >> thank you. >> keep irritating them. [inaudible conversations]

>> madness. who are these people? >> all your fans. >> well, i tell you, it is bizarre. [inaudible conversations] >> just for a few minutes. >> okay. >> he did a good job. >> yeah. well, we got a couple copies. >> i read it as a proofreader first, and then i read it as a reader, and reading it as a reader -- >> it's a lot more fun. >> yeah. oh, we can't wait to read it. >> [inaudible] >> will we see some your brood in here? >> yes. >> excellent. >> [inaudible] >> are you kidding me? >> you didn't have to do this. [inaudible conversations] >> oh, get in here. ann's this that room in there.

oh, you're so dear to come to this. >> he loves you. >> i'd kiss him on the head right now. >> are you kidding me? this man loves you. >> we would not be elsewhere. we love ya. >> here's a great guy. and dingell and i used to do a hell of a lot of business. >> boy, did we ever. >> did we. >> i really miss you. >> i miss you too. [inaudible conversations] >> he doesn't want to go to anything, and he saw that and said, deborah, i have to go to an event. >> working my way up, but i didn't get there, but ann is here, there she is right over there. >> let's go see her. >> a lot of people voted for her, john. >> how you doing? >> i am doing so well, i just can't stand myself. i have everything. well, almost everything, senator. [laughter] >> by the way, you may forget, you arranged for kate, my wife

and i, to get married in the howard baker room. >> i remember. >> yeah. >> everything working well? >> well, we're still together -- [inaudible conversations] >> i'm freelancing, and i'm working on my own book. >> what are you writing about, spooks? >> no, my dad. >> [inaudible] >> no, he died at 100. >> oh, that's a book. >> the last time i saw you, you were at church down the street -- >> you crept in there. >> i did. and you were -- [inaudible conversations]

>> oh! you're related to the queen, aren't you? my god, who is -- >> i am in the presence of royalty. >> i know who it is, it's david -- >> ah! [inaudible conversations] >> david brinkley come back from the dead. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> i'm here because of you. wait, we're coming. [inaudible conversations] >> you want to raise my taxes! [inaudible conversations] >> i'm surprised they finished him in such a quick time with the way you are, you old coot. gosh. >> go ahead, tell c-span.

finish. [laughter] these are pals of mine. >> how are you? >> stick around. your book will get special attention. >> will it? we've already bought it, but i told them that i wanted you to write something -- >> i'm all stacked up the one withs i'm going sit down and really deal with, and then i'll -- >> [inaudible] >> here tomorrow doing five different things. we ought to have a pile of books that'll receive my personal attention. i can do it tomorrow sometime or tonight later some. set them all up. buffalo bill's granddaughter. >> we want today find out where the books -- >> [inaudible conversations]

>> how good of you to come. >> well, i really asked my wife to sign the book because i said i bet she did most of it. >> the books that need extra care, and because -- and i'm going to then tomorrow between all my -- [inaudible conversations] >> oh, it's about you. >> well, i didn't write it, but -- [inaudible conversations] anyway, i want to add some special note toss this. >> does that mean we'll ever get it back? >> you'll get it back. is that my hairpiece? [laughter]

>> the one you wore 45 years ago. >> anyway, old john dingell came. he doesn't go to anything. i love the guy. i think they caught me kissing him on the head. well, he's -- >> a lot of us wouldn't come out -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] >> the desk clerk said don't you mean goosed? i said, don't you think i know how to count? [laughter] >> oh, how are you? >> i'm good. >> good to see you. how have you been? >> i've been well, how about you?

>> so good to see you. >> remember the night -- [inaudible conversations] >> are you sure that's the only one? [laughter] >> bob and judy worcester. best wishes. that's it. that's all i want. that's for bob moss' friend. he loves you. >> can i get a picture -- >> it's doing the same thing.

i know you know how to -- [inaudible] >> i'll do it. >> there we go. this was one of my students at harvard. >> yeah. can i get one with -- [inaudible] >> this is one of my finest students. [laughter] he is of the other faith. >> i'm at the white house now. [inaudible conversations]

>> oh, wow. you were a tiny boy. >> his mother was judge alice k -- [inaudible] >> 13 children. >> 13 children. >> nine boys, four girls, and the first one out was the best one dressed. [laughter] >> oh, that's a great saying. >> oh, i could have been your author. >> what's going on here? >> you used to take the o -- the whole stack.

>> good to see you all. [inaudible conversations] >> we get together every once this a while and trade stories. >> this was one of my students at harvard. >> oh, really? >> now he's working himself up to speech writer at the white house for god's sake. >> i'm trying to work -- >> the guy with the radio who gets in the accident, rush limbaugh? [laughter] [inaudible conversations]

>> we enjoyed your christmas card. >> we're coming to yellowstone around july 4th. >> let us know because -- give us notice. >> okay. >> a lot of people come and sometimes i look at the driveway, and then i go into the basement -- [laughter] and the doorbell rings, and is anybody in there? [laughter] i've done that. >> i believe it. >> no, i have a -- [inaudible] and the car would drive up, and i'd say, jesus, not that guy. but i'd go out and start loading this into the car and say, ann -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] well, we're so sorry. so if you see me do that -- >> then we know. >> for my father, bob.

he was the attorney general in arizona and then -- big law and order guy, loves you. he can't wait to read your book. [inaudible conversations] >> nice to have a fan. i needed them. >> oh, no, no, no. thank you. >> great to see you. >> you'd like to get out of here, wouldn't you? are you having a little -- [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [applause] >> good evening, everyone. i didn't hear you. [applause] hi, everyone. i'm tammy haddad, and i'm thrill today welcome you to this special evening for a very dear friend of all of ours. and we're here at this fabulous hotel, the jefferson, and i'd like to introduce you to peter grossman who's one of our cohosts. peter, will you come and say hello? [applause] >> thank you. just very briefly on behalf of connie and the jefferson -- wow.

i hope that's better. we're absolutely thrilled to be hosting senator simpson and his former chief of staff and biographer donald hardy this evening. we're excited to hear from both of them about the book, "shooting from the lip," which i guess is fitting. [laughter] connie was also very proud last year to a dinner on behalf of the commission and then to further support it in its efforts as i think everybody knows on the deficit reduction. of not sure that anybody really listened after they got done, but at least they put in the effort. [laughter] that's apolitical, by the way. so in a different, in addition connie noted that it was no surprise to her at the time that based on senator simpson's record this the senate and his bipartisanship work that he would be chosen to be a co-chair of that commission. and, um, lastly i just want to

say that, you know, as we understand mr. hardy had full access to senator simpson's records, diaries, volumes, full access. [laughter] and i will say that's -- the senator did mention he's been married 57 years, so anybody that gives full access after 57 years, i think that's pretty impressive. [laughter] connie really just wanted to welcome everybody and say we're thrilled to be sponsoring this. [applause] >> now i have the pleasure of introducing what i call the bravest man in the world, don hardy, the author of the book. i don't know how you could possibly put all of this in one book and decide what to leave in and what to take out. just as someone who's had senator simpson on msnbc, cnn and fox, you have changed the conversation about politics, about culture, about what's important in our country. and don had to put that all in

how many pages? >>460. >> 460. so, ladies and gentlemen, don hardy. [cheers and applause] >> wow. what a treat this is. thank you. um, al told me if i ever got in front of a crowd like this instead of standing in the shadows like i normally do that i should be very careful what i said because he said one day you're the toast of the town, and the next day you're just toast. [laughter] so thank you all. thank you, peter and tammy and kent levinson is an amazing guy. [applause] i met kent, and he worked with lane bailey and holly page at the column. i met him 18 years ago in china. he was a great guy then, he's a great guy now. i hope you all get to meet ken. if it hadn't been for him, we wouldn't be here tonight. so -- oh, and jackie. jackie bloom, wherever she is --

[applause] oh there,. without her the invitation list would have been a mess. [laughter] i've known alan simpson for just over 50 years. i grew up in cody, wyoming, near al. i heard all the stories when i was a kid, and then i tried to do them myself. [laughter] a few years later, and he helped me out of that hole. [laughter] i worked 18 years for al, all 18 years i was press secretary and then chief of staff responsible for all mistakes -- [laughter] and when al went to retire and went to the harvard, i went to the smithsonian and was in charge of government there for a while, then my wonderful wife rebecca -- who is right here -- [applause] i'm telling you, i could not have been this good without re rebecca. she did, she proved and she -- she proofed, and she researched, and she put up with me being up at 4:00 in the morning, and she

is amazing. so we went overseas and did a bunch of work with charities and came back and ended up on a sailboat. and one day in 2005 the phone connected to some reason to some island tower, and it rang. and it was al simpson, and he said these guys want to write the story of my life. and they don't know me as well as you do. would you like to take a shot at it? and i said -- because it was a good life. i said -- [laughter] i said, just a second, al, i'm having trouble getting the cork out of this bottle of chardonnay. [laughter] but i did, and i said why would i do that? and he said because i will give you access to everything in my life. everything. and i thought i knew a lot, but all of his records, his papers, his speeches, his personal letters from his family members, it was all there. everything that i could possibly want. and especially the diaries. 6,000 pages were the diaries.

nineteen binders. and people like david mccullough said the reason these are valuable is that they were put down, these things, as they happened. so i was at the white house or talking to gorbachev or saddam hue same, and he took notes -- hussein, and he took notes, and then he dictated it into this diary that ended up being 2.4 million words with. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> so we set sail for the united states, and al said how long is this going to take? i said, about a year. that was in 2005. [laughter] i said, but something that's really important, i said people know that i worked for you, and i was loyal to you, and you've been my friend for half a century. they're going to expect this thing will be a puff piece. and it's very important that they not think that after they read it. so i said, you know, it's going to be important that i tell the

bad things and the failures if balance along with all the successes. and al said, look, you just do the right thing by telling the truth. he said if hair, eyeballs and teeth land on the floor as a result of telling the truth about me, so be it. [laughter] i also said that i have to have editorial control. if you write anything in this book, people are shot going to -- are not going to, they'll think it's a puff piece. and also you can't have any money. [laughter] and so i hold the contract for that with the university of oklahoma press. so al said say what you want, but make it true. so i did. the first three pages describe what it's like to push a flaming car off a cliff. [laughter]

and burn down a house and shoot enough mailboxes to end up on federal probation. now, the reason that that's important is that -- [laughter] >> it's really not. [laughter] >> because this is not a story about politics. half of a you have probably written books about politics. the bill goes here, the bill goes there, it gets passed, it doesn't get passed. whatever. this is a book about humanity, about a human being. he happened to be a politician. but this is a story about a person who is extremely human, a person who puts citizenship ahead of partisanship, and that's why it was important to tell this story. and it goes back to the days in which republicans and democrats spoke to each other and respected each other. >> here, here. >> and it doesn't happen as much anymore, but, for example, al simpson was a great friend of ted kennedy. they spoke very late into his life, and people at no time know

that, and they -- didn't know that, and they didn't understand it. in wyoming especially. [laughter] so there's one little story that i have to tell you that it kind of demonstrates the days in which there was friendship because either one of these guys could get the mic and tell the same exact story. it involves a town meeting in wyoming. you know where people come in, and they raise their hands, and they're upset about something. and this raucous meeting is going on, and al's presiding over it, and in the door comes ted kennedy. and people can't believe it. [laughter] the guy in the back says what's this guy doing in wyoming? another guy stands up, and he says that ted kennedy, he's here in wyoming, that guy is a horse's ass. [laughter] simpson jumps up, runs to the back of the room, grabs the guy, opens the door and throws him into a snow bank. [laughter] and when he comes back in, kennedy says to him, good heavens, that was magnificent,

al. i had no idea this was kennedy country. [laughter] and al looked at him and said, ted, it's not. it's horse country. [laughter] [applause] senator al simpson. [cheers and applause] >> well, this is, this is beyond repair here. [laughter] several people have come up to me and said, al, let me tell you a new story. i said, go ahead, i'm wired. oh, jeez, i'll save it for later. now, if i started around this room, there are some wonderful people here that -- and i'm not going to do that. i haven't had a drink, will a little later. [laughter] but i have to say don hardy took this over, and what he really forgot to say is when he was 17, he borrowed a car, i think it

was a rental from webster chevrolet and drove it to seattle. [laughter] it was not a rental. it was called stolen. [laughter] and he came to me and said i heard you were a mess, what about me? i said, you're a mess, so come on in here. i said, you're a very salvageable human being. [laughter] and so we were linked at the hip way back, way back there. [laughter] that's a true story. but he's done a beautiful job. it's a great book. i read it as a proofreader three times thinking, boy, i found this and that, you know, and, boy, i'd dig 'em up. and then i read it as a reader would read a book, and it had a lump -- i had a lump in my throat and a laugh throughout. so it's there. and it's a beautiful book, and i love it. things could have been left out finish. [laughter] i mean, the day i slugged the cop in laramie, threw in --

thrown in the clink, i called ann. ann is here. ann, would you ten -- [cheers and applause] >> and i said i need there are 300 bail -- $300 bail, i'm in the clink. she said, look, i'm working my way through school, i don't have $300. she said, stay there. [laughter] and i thought, i need to marry her. [laughter] saving myself. for the prim rose path. and then in this room is another great and dear friend, dick and lynne cheney, and i won't tell you about dick cheney's experiences. [applause] especially at the university of wyoming which would make mine pale. [laughter] no, i tell you, this -- we ran together in 1978, he ran for the congress, i ran for the senate, and lynne and dick and annie and i have run -- every time one of us was running and neither of us ever lost an election. so that's a tribute to you, cheney. [applause]

and then back there standing right next to him is this little rascal i met behind barbed wire. he was in the japanese war relocation center in hard mountain, wyoming, as a 12-year-old boy, and our scout master said we're going to go to heart mountain and meet the boy scouts. well, i'll tell ya, nobody wanted to go to heart mountain. it had wire all around it, guard towers, machine guns, and it was one of those of the ten relocation centers. and we had a scout master, he said these are guys just like us, they're boy scouts. i ran into this guy from san jose, and we really -- oh, he was a smart aleck just like i was. [laughter] and we had a bully. we picked on -- he picked on us, so it rained that day, and we just dug a little trench right toward his cabin, and during the night it rained like hell, and it ruined his tent, pulled it up. we just laughed. he said i laughed more than he

did, but -- [laughter] that's a friendship. of what's that? >> you kept me up all -- [laughter] >> well, when i read he was mayor, i said remember the fat kid from cody? we started to core respond. we served together in congress, on the board of regents at smithsonian. but as i say dick and lynne, that goes back 40 some years. i could go back to nina totenberg. she and i had some spirited words. [laughter] and let me tell you, she and dave became -- when i was at harvard, we had the most wonderful times together. her father still playing a virtuoso violin, and we had a lot of fun. and i always, if you can't forgive a person, it's like letting them live in your head rent-free. [laughter] now, don't miss that. that's not a funny statement. if you can't forgive a person, it's like letting them live in your head rent-free.

i mean, you're in the shower thinking that son of a bitch -- [laughter] and he's out golfing, he's golfing. [laughter] so what do you gain from that? and then, of course, billington is lurking over here, and i can't go through all this. clarence thomas was here. clarence, boy, amazing things you go through. i met anita hill, i met her -- i say to people, why don't you move on? what is the purpose of keeping tab seething? there are the seethers and the seekers. i prefer the seekers. anyway, billington. he's up for, he's up for library of congress. there's another guy up there, a real wizard, and the staff, reagan's staff wanted that guy. so i'm sitting next to ron reagan, and i said, ron, i really love the guy. i'm in his diary a lot, i'll tell ya. i said, i think you want to think of this guy, billington. he said, yeah? yeah, al, why would that be?

i said, he hates commies. [laughter] and i said, not only that, he knows russian fluently. he can tell just exactly when those sons of bitches, what they're saying, and he knows what they're -- he said, really? [laughter] three days later -- [laughter] still our librarian of the library of congress. [applause] great story. john dingell, where's that rascal back there? he and i -- >> [inaudible] >> i know, but i can't stop. [laughter] but dingell and i used to meet on conference committees, and he'd say, look, we're going to get this done. and i said, who are you going to diddle before the ten days is over? he said, he named a guy. he said why don't you do something with the staff of that committee in the senate. i said, i can't, they're tougher than i am. but then we got together and just beat them to bits. [laughter]

and chuck robb and i were on the iraq study group. it is important, you can't -- what the hell's happened? the word compromise now means you're a wimp. that's madness. you can't do it. and here is bruce reid who is the executive director of the commission on, co-chaired by erskine and i from idaho. i don't know how he got into that -- [laughter] i'm not going to go any further. i see cora lurking over there, one of my students from the harvard. now, ann has cleared her throat three times. [laughter] and none of you have heard it, but i have heard it. [laughter] and so i just want to say we're going to stick around, and i want to thank these sponsors because the test of an event like this, i go up, i said how is the wine? they said better than anything you ever bought. [laughter] and so i'm now i've finished, i'll be having one. but, look, there's something i wanted -- if you have a book,

and i just don't want to just scribble my name. you can get those out there. if you have a book and you want me to do some personalization, just leave it, and we'll put a slip of paper this there, and eventually i'll get 'em back, or they'll be here in washington with mike tonger, by dear pal, my chief of staff. where is he? [inaudible conversations] anyway, mac -- mike and -- >> [inaudible] >> you were the finest staffer identify ever known. [applause] i've ever known. [applause] and you'll wear your crown in heaven, certainly not here. [laughter] and, becky, if you met becky, here becky -- all right. this is like the picture of dorian gray. [laughter] i am falling apart, and this picture is eternal. [laughter] dorian gray was the opposite. the picture aged, and he never did. he sold his soul, and then he ended up in a pile of bones,

cadaverrish myth. but that is the a beautiful thing. [laughter] anyway, annie and i are having fun, and to think that i do these things just one reason; this wonderful guy right here. and i've never received a penny. [applause] [laughter] thank you for coming and thank you! stick around. thok knox. >> oh, my sakes. [applause] >> booktv has over 100,000 twitter followers. be a part of the excitement. follow booktv on twitter to get publishing news, scheduling updates, author information and talk directly with authors during our live programming. twitter.com/booktv. >> you've written a book about the obamas. i think i, like most people, find it on the whole a very admiring book. the administration has, i guess,

disagreed. they've come out with some comments about you. what, a, what's it like to be in the middle of a political fire fight? we're not used to being in the middle of it. and, you know, what do you make of what's happening? >> well, it is a little strange because, um, the book, you know, i've been covering the obamas for five years for "the new york times", and it really started with a series we do at the paper called "the long run," and it's about trying to capture the lives of the candidates. and especially because candidates are so restricted now, it's so hard to get access to them. one of the ways we learn about them is through their biographies. we delve deeply boo their pasts -- into their pasts, into their characters, and we really look at the whole person. so this book in a way is an outgrowth of those stories which identify been doing for years and years -- i've within doing for years and years. so the goal of this book was to really write about what i would call the big change. when i started covering barack

and michelle obama, they really were barack and michelle. and the extraordinary thing that i was watching happen was watching these two regular people become president and first lady of the united states and what i was seeing is that it wasn't a process that happened on inauguration day when somebody takes an oath, but it's a huge learning curve made all the more dramatic in the obama story because of their freshness to national political life and also because of the fact that they're the first african-american president and first lady. so we really see a couple of things happening in this book. we see two people learning to take their partnership which used to be this private thing and turn it into a white house partnership. we see michelle obama have a really tough landing initially in the white house, and then actually turn it around. and then the third thing the book is really about is the most fascinating thing that i find about barack obama which is his struggle with politics. i just, you know, after all

these years i still can't get over the fact that the top politician in the country has a really complicated relationship with the business that he's in. so anyway, i worked on this book for two years, and i published it. white house cooperated, you know, i've been working with all these folks for years. lots of people this the obama iper circle gave me interviews. they -- inner circle gave me interviews. they knew exactly what they were getting into. they never mis-- i never misrepresent what i was doing, and also i fact checked the book with an assistant before publication, and we published an excerpt in the times on saturday. and then a really, i guess two really interesting things happened. um, the first thing is that people started discussing the book without having read the book, and that's never really happened to me before because as a newspaper reporter everybody just read your work in the newspaper, and the other thing is that, um, the white house did start pushing back in some really interesting ways.

they haven't really challenged the reporting in the book, like i haven't gotten a phone call from david axlerod saying you got it all wrong, and in fact, a lot of his on-the-record quotes are in the book. but something really surprised me yesterday which is that michelle obama went on tv, and she said -- i'm paraphrasing -- she said i'm really tired of depictions of myself as an angry black woman. and she also protested portrayals of her fighting directly with rahm emanuel. so that was kind of fascinating to me because the book definitely does not portray her in any stereotypical way, and also i am very clear to mention that the clashes between her and emanuel were really philosophical in nature. i mean, maybe i shouldn't undercut my own reporting and talk about their differences in approach to political life, but that's really what they were. now, she did acknowledge that she didn't read the book, so i have to imagine that she is

responding maybe to the coverage of the book instead of the book itself. but part of the reason i'm really excited to be here tonight is to talk about the actual thing with you and with all of you. >> now, let's go to that political thing because that is one of the themes running through the book. reminded me when theodore roosevelt went into politics, everyone around him said you don't want to do politics, that's beneath people like us. is that sort of the attitude -- what are the qualms about pom ticks the -- politics the obamas have? >> part of the reason i think their qualms are important and not to just be dismissed is that they're similar to the qualms that a lot of us have about politics, right? i mean, we all see what's wrong with the political system, what's ugly about it, you know, whether it can really address social needs, um, and what not. but, you know, this is one of the many things about obama that was such a big asset in the campaign that ends up being

somewhat inhibiting in the presidency time and time again in my reporting, sometimes this very simple ways and sometimes in very complicated ways i found that he had kind of trouble acting like a politician. a small story in the book is about the first super bowl party this the white house. and, you know, he's kind to everybody, he greets everybody, but he doesn't want to work the room. he's got this kind of principled objections, right? he doesn't want to be the guy who's spending the entire super bowl schmoozing, and he has this idea that he wants to still hang on to a normal life in the presidency. and that, you know, in my reporting i just watched that idea get tested again and again and again. >> now, there's another story in the book where they, he insists on having dinner every night at 6:30 which means he can't schmooze with other washington power brokers, and that's sort of an admirable side of not wanting to be captured by the job s. that a common theme?

>> yeah. not only run well, certainly wanting to preserve a domestic life. part of the drama is that barack obama gets to washington, and not only does he have not so much managerial or executive or national security or economic experience, but he's also never lived in the same house as his family full time. and the house they're going to live in for the first time is the white house which is not in any way, shape or form like a normal life. but, you know, i think the 6:30 rule -- and, by the way, he's obviously willing to miss dinner with his family for important situations, and he's willing to miss it two nights a week. i just find in my reporting that the obamas are constantly seeking ways to kind of limit and protect themselves from political life. >> right. so why, why do you think he ran? if he's ambivalent about politics? >> i think it was, i think it was a rushed decision, and i think it was a hard decision.

you know, his aides say that, you know, the summer of 2006 he was still really dismissive of it, and it was only, um, you know, they began to sort of test the waters then. but when you think about it, their decision making process only went from maybe the summer of 2006 through the fall, and what people kept telling him was, you know, your time is now, right? if you miss this window of opportunity, you may never get it again. and part of the drama of the situation is that michelle obama is initially very opposed in part because of the family issues, but in part because she thinks -- she's worried about attacks from the clintons and with standing attacks, and she thinks a couple of years may benefit him. and what her chief of staff said to me is that the decision just really weighed on her. and, you know, i find her situation at that time so dramatic because the way people describe it is she really did

feel her husband would be an exceptional president, and yet she really wasn't sure it was the best thing for her family. so how do you choose between what you think might be good for the country and what might be good for you? >> right. and, you know, mitch daniels didn't run for president because his wife had veto power. do you think they had those same kind of discussions, arguments back and forth? >> well, yeah. the president and first lady have talked about it. and also, you know, the physical white house is almost a character in this book. you know, i spend a lot of time describing what it's actually like to live there and what the structure is like and all of the restrictions that come with that life. and i will admit that that is fun to report on and read and that there is a little bit of, you know, exploratory or pleasure in getting inside the house. but i think there are also two very substantive things about it, and this, to me, is the sort of meaty argument of the book which is the confinement and

isolation of the presidency has two really important effects on our system. one is that it really limits the number of people who are willing to run for office along with all the other factors that do. but, you know, the number of people who are willing to, a, go through a presidential campaign and then live this incredibly restricted life is pretty, it is pretty small. and then the other thing is, you know, we consistently see these presidents get cut off in the white house, and they all say it's not going to happen to them, and it happens to all of them. >> now, michelle obama is one of the first, um, well, she's certainly the youngest person to have served first lady since the sexual revolution. did she because of just what generation she's from have a more difficult time than other first ladies being second fiddle, if that's the right word? >> well, it's funny because she's such a pupil of hillary clinton's in that way, right? you can, you can -- in my reporting i found again and again that she and kind of

everybody else in the white house had one eye on hillary clinton's situation. and also the attacks she went through in the 2008 campaign were really pretty painful for her and everybody around her to be, you know, that new to public life and to watch yourself caricatured that way was really, really hard. you know, the twist, i think, to it though is that, you know, what her aides talked about was that the traditional nature of first ladyhood which was so confining at first ends up protecting her a little bit. because political life is so scab rouse and so difficult that, you know, it's another way of limiting, right? it's another way of saying i don't do policy, i don't have to be part of this part of discussion, you know, i'm not going to get engaged in, you know, these kinds of debates.

i think there's something, you know, very protective about the traditionalism of that role. now, of course, she's playing a much more prominent role in the presidential message which is what she wanted in the first place. >> right. there are odd moments, and these are endearing -- there are moments of toughness that she displays, but there are moments of real vulnerability. there's one episode where you describe she's wearing sort of normal short toss go to the grand canyon, and i guess robin given in the post made fun of them, and she wondered if she was letting the team down. how do you sort of weigh the balance of vulnerability and fierceness that sort of alternate in the book? >> that's part of what i think is so fascinating. um, she -- a part of the reason i think that -- i mean, let's just banish the phrase angry black woman from the culture, you know, not only from this book, but part of the reason i think that caricature of her is

so wrong is that it misses the vulnerability, and it misses the anxiety. i mean, that's the words that her aides use, right? they don't call her angry, they call her anxious. the point in my reporting where i found her, um, really fuming was after the scott brown loss, after the scott brown victory. so scott brown, a republican, wins ted kennedy's senate seat. this has devastating consequences for the president's legislative agenda. it's all in jeopardy now, and, you know, she has two issues with her husband's team. one is that, you know, she doesn't understand how they could have let this happen. you know, how they could have sort of drops the ball on the race. but the other issue which is so, is more, i think, to the heart of the role she plays in the presidency. she's always had this idea that her husband is going to be a transformative president, right?