coast recruiting african-american students to the college of holy cross with the hope of realizing martin luther king, jr.'s goal of an integrated society following his death in 1968. reverend brooks the future president of the college introduced several students to holy cross that year which included future supreme court justice clarence thomas and future one of the pulitzer prize in literature, edward jones. this is about 50 minutes. >> good afternoon. i would like to welcome everybody and start the program if we could. good afternoon and welcome. this is certainly a wonderful turnout and we are very very happy to have everybody this afternoon. on behalf of the college, as well as the holy cross of boston i would like to welcome you to

the special monthly lunch. i'm greg cahill class of 1981. thank you for all being here as we celebrate the publication of fraternity with author diane brady. an exceptional and accomplished journalist, diane has done all of it and it's a great gift in telling the story of father brooks as well as an extraordinary group of black students and how their time together at holy cross during the late 1960s has helped shape their lives and change the changed the course of history. as one reviewer commented, "fraternity" brings to our attention for the first time an unsung hero of the civil rights movement. another called the book incredibly inspiring, noting that diane had captured the story not just of a group of amazing black men and their mentor, but of an era.

a senior editor at bloomberg "businessweek," diane first wrote about this time in holy cross history in the 2007 article for "businessweek" and his work since then to expand the story into a book. we are delighted she is here with us today to share her experiences, researching, interviewing and writing "fraternity." and we are equally delighted to welcome eddie jenkins, class of 1972 who is right over here to my right. who is naturally one of the prominent men featured in the book. i have to also kid eddie. addie of course played both for the patriots and the giants. [laughter] i don't think he has the super bowl ring on. he had it on in new york last night. [laughter] he also you know, we were kidding him as to who he might be rooting for this weekend.

he remarked that he was cut by the giants. [laughter] surely after he was designated the team's player rep, so i think he learned leadership skills at holy cross as we all know and carried them onto the nfl. it's my pleasure to welcome diane brady to offer remarks before moving to open the floor for questions. welcome diane. [applause] >> thank you everybody in thank you so much for coming to this. i want to see, where is mr. cahill senior? he purchased by the way 250 books and distributed them to the entire class of 1949. [applause] thank you very much for that and

i think eddie got tired of showing off his super bowl ring last night and is officially in fact rooting for the feature is. i don't think we established that. i am a very timid giants fan and so i will quickly move on to the book itself. i thought i would just talk a little bit briefly about why this story intrigues me so much, a little bit about the reporting process and bring it forward to today because i think that this what -- open the floor to questions. i will admit first of all sadly i'm not a holy cross grad which somebody thought naturally that i must be in an alumnus of the school. the way i came across the story was sam grayson one of the men in the book. we were just having a lunch and it was the same day that ted wells was a front-page story in "the new york times" representing scooter libby at the time, so going way back. he started to talk about his

classmates, the other black classmates and started to talk about father brooks. i was partly intrigued because clarence thomas was one of those classmates and i had not read much about the interaction between clarence thomas and father brooks so that got me intrigued. i might as a journalist and it's not a classic business story but i might interested in leadership and always interested in mentoring. it took quite a while to get justice thomas to speak with me i think in part because he didn't necessarily trust to the agenda that i had, which was i would like in fact to talk about 1968, 69, 70 in those years. what amazed me was when i did go in to see him, the depth of passion he had for holy cross, the feelings and emotions he had about father brooks. i'm not sure who was at his presentation last week when he

got an honorary degree, but that came up again. i think when you contrast how he feels about holy cross versus what he has said about his experiences at yale, there is a profound difference and i think one of the big differences was his classmates and it was the way he felt treated at the college and the way he felt treated by father brooks. so i basically just set out to do an article. i decided that it was in fact grounds for a book and i have to say seeing my first book project i went in all sorts of directions that ultimately didn't work. one of which was lots of history of the jesuits and the publisher said no. a lot of it is the history of worcester which took me a while to pronounce. it's not worchester, it's worcester and ultimately came down to the story of these five men and father brooks.

one thing it meant was unfortunately a lot of the people i talk to i had to diminish their roles in the book. i had to take names out because again my editor said it's getting confusing keeping track of all these people. focus on these men and focus on the fraternity they formed a new set as a microcosm for what they experienced at holy cross and what was being experienced across the country at that time. i think that there were a couple of things that i tried to be careful not to do. one was heighten the drama too much. i think the main thing that was important to me was that holy cross was special and unique that it was a microcosm of what was happening in the country at that time. i'm not american. actually grew up in scotland. i am half catholic that brady is a handy name to have when you are reporting at holy cross. i was always intrigued at this

period. i was born in the late 60s and never really fully understood kind of the emotions of the times. the book opens right after dark there martin luther king has been killed and also father brooks intrigued me as somebody who was a pioneer, who went out there basically circumvented the admissions process. he was very controversial and those of you who've read the book and those of you that know him know he is a very strong-willed men and basically went out with tim gallagher, drove to the school and personally interviewed a lot of these men, not the men who came through other means such as eddie who came in through an athletic scholarship, and i think -- can everybody still hear me?

and then sat in a coffee shop one night and decided who was going to get in. and then he presented a bill to father sword who was the present at the time. it was $80,000 which for college that had $1 million endowment at the time was quite a cross to bear. by what he was looking for, i asked him you know how do you decide? anybody who is apparent in the room knows that intelligence is not necessarily something that is a hallmark of success. it doesn't necessarily lead to success and when he talked of father brooks he was looking for leadership qualities. he was looking for a drive. he was looking for people who had a work ethic, people who were hoping to reach beyond their grasp, black and white and as you may or may not know he was fighting at the time to get women into the college. sadly for the class of 72 i think they did not arrive until the fall of that year and that

was after father brooks became president and said he managed to shake up the trustee board a little bit and get the people on there that did finally pass a resolution to let women into the college. so i think that when i look at this story, and i will take your questions, i think what really struck me as when i look at today. first of all the network and its the it's the network of these men. it's called "fraternity" because this is not about one man, a theology professor, later a president who went out to save a group of men. these were men who were highly motivated, highly accomplished who have been given an opportunity they would not have had probably two or three years earlier. there were african-american students at holy cross but they tended to be one or two a year. in some cases one and one might come in on an athletic

scholarship and one would come into the catholic school network and that was pretty much it. this was the first major group they came in, 20 men, clarence thomas transferred after dropping out of the seminary and so it was the first time they had critical numbers on campus. and what i think happened was father brooks and the college never veered on academic standards. all of them had to work as hard, harder in many cases. i think ted wells, clarence thomas tended to close down the library at night according to everybody i talked to. but i think where he did make concessions was socially and he understood how difficult it was. he gave them a psu fan. the college paid for station wagon for them to get off campus as often as they could. he paid for them to have a you. he allowed them to live together on it but corridor which is very controversial.

i know we have one of the editors of the crusaders and i remember reading a lot of the articles that were basically, students were very upset about this almost resegregation they called it. that he understood that it was difficult and he made concessions. when i talk to the men i think it was the idea that the very highest levels of the college, they understood people cared about their success. they understood that with father brooks there was always an open door. he had that philosophy i think for the 2000 students who were there. many people here feel very close to father brooks and i'm sorry he is not with us today. he was with us last night and it was the last week for clarence thomas' event. when i talked to father brooks today he just wants leaders and he felt the calling -- college was missing out and being the best institution in this country by not reaching out and getting

leaders from all parts of society, women, blacks, whites, asians. i know holy cross has made great strides in diversity. certainly there has been a very strong generation of leaders in women. i met jane robertson from the the first class of many women who are pioneers there. but when i look today, think one thing that is interesting is there has been great success, great faith in terms of what has happened with african-americans. ted wells i know went on to harvard and some of his classmates include ken can although american express, ken frazier, lot of highly accomplished men from that generation. i think there's also a lot of disappointment and a lot of disappointment at what happened with the black underclass in this country, what has happened with education and the erosion of opportunity. frankly i think what also happened in terms of some the decision some of which have been made at justice thomas in terms of opportunities, affirmative

action and such, and the next way this generation is going to be financial. it's going to be encouraging entrepreneurship. it's going to be basically giving people the tools to start their own businesses, and to inspire the same generation of leaders that came out there. i think in closing before we take any questions, one thing i want to say is, another thanks to the holy cross community because one thing that this reporting process has really reinforced in me is a strong fraternity and the power that the school has had about one of the highest levels of giving, which is amazing especially for people added -- university. we just don't give. the government will do it. [laughter] the holy cross, when i look at the networks that are foreign, the friendship, the power of the cross as they call it, and the

the way that people support each other and love each other across the generations, think it's very inspiring and it's also to me a testament of how leadership really happens. in this country it happens everywhere else and i think the support and love people have shown for father brooks through the process, that they have shown for these men and an appreciation for how difficult it was to be pioneers on that campus. i hope it's a story that we will continue to come back to again and again. as a reporter have to say given the support i've gotten from holy cross, i want every story to be based on the holy cross campus. so thank you very much. thank you again for supporting the book. i don't think it does justice for the period but i hope at least it's a start and others will come forward and continue to tell the story. so thanks again. [applause] and i guess i will now take questions. and you know eddie is here, who

is a very busy man not gypsies because you are going to the super bowl but if you have questions for eddie before you leads, you can, but feel free to ask questions of him. it is their story, not mine. does anybody have any questions they would like to ask? >> i did want to mention c-span is here today and filming and it will be shown at a future date. we will pass the microphone around is what i'm trying to say and if everyone was would speak into the microphone. >> give your name. look at the camera. >> that would be great. in the jesuits we don't have fraternity's. >> that's true, that stroup. >> we do feel like we are fraternity in many ways. who is first? eddie? good. >> first of all i would like to

thank diane for the chronicle of this very special experience for the people who lived through it but before it began to tell me -- tell you about my assessment is like to recognize a pioneer who was one of those african-americans that holy cross, rob cretul could you stand up police? amazing track star, great scholar and continues to do great community service working with me at irvine edge. i'm a board member there and bob does great work in the area of affordable housing. [applause] last night while we all got together, we finished everything. ted wells, you know ted. ted loves to be close to a job which is on fifth avenue above st. patrick's cathedral. we have we were looking at st. patrick's cathedral and looking back and he says, 40

years later. what did we do that was so special? not only the people that remember us but put on the cover of the book? and so you know we thought about it and we said, i know i gave you that quote last night. >> it was a good quote. >> it was in a book that someone took home. i had a book that someone actually took it. the holy cross community would never do anything like that. [laughter] but in the book i had a quote for martin luther king. martin luther king said you look at the measure of a person not at the times when they stand in comfort and convenience but you look at them when they stand in a moment of crisis. and that was our moment of crisis. it was basically the civil rights movement and if you remember yourself those times, do you remember what you did? many of you watch those reports on television and you figured

that you know, the ripper -- the reports were enough. some of you had read the current commission report where they talk about two societies developing, one white and one black and one rich and one poor and they were coming further apart. some of you even put your toe in and and then maybe did a little something but for those of you who actually took the plunge and lost the sense of security, you actually jumped into the river. when we walked out, we jumped in the river and we did not know where we would end up in those turbulent currents of racism and cynicism pulling addis. the community would say just let them leave. we don't need them any more. we continue to swim and more importantly followed father brooks who continued to swim. he said it's not important that they jumped out, he said it's important that we get them to the other side in because we got to the other side the river of

love overcame racism. that is the part that i challenge each and everyone of you that there are additional rivers that you must plunge into today. diane talked about the economic crisis and i would add to that the incredible number of african-americans that are in jail today, more in jail than in college and we have an extraordinary problem in america we have to address. don't just look at us as some memorial, some old guys that did something great 40 years ago. that was our river, this is your river and now is your chance to jump in. thank you very much. [applause] >> i can't top that. you know the other thing i think was interesting which came up last night and has come up with clarence thomas as well is what has happened to the catholic school network, the high school network, the elementary school network especially in the city.

people say the charter schools have come in to perhaps fill the void they are but i think there is a real sense of loss. certainly i think these men feel a lot of people feel as if this was a real steppingstone for a lot of urban families to get their kids the type of education, the type of discipline and the type of values that would help make them leaders in society and i think there's a certain wistfulness that network is not as strong as it was perhaps when they were students and a feeling of maybe would there be some way to make it stronger again? so that certainly is, but as well. does anybody have any questions? go ahead. i guess we have to wait for the microphone, is that right? the raise your hand high. >> hi. i was a student at the time of the book. i have not read the book yet,

yet but a couple of questions. is there anything in the book about the impact of what was going on with a white students and i say that because -- i remember playing cards in the cafeteria with clarence and i remember working on a program with eddie jones and i remember drinking beer with joe wilson and the friendship to develop and how it impacted later on. also, i would like to mention that what father brooks did was not just for the black students. i was from a low-income family in brooklyn and he did the same for me. and that changed my life. after that -- though i would like to say the combination of those experiences gave me that direction. >> yeah and i think that came up as a theme.

>> i have another comment or question. it was something that came up when we were freshmen which annoyed us and bothered us. it was the "sports illustrated" article about -- >> about jack donahue coax it does come up in the book because sam grayson is one of the men and obviously was deeply affected. this was a "sports illustrated" article where basically jack donahue who was the basketball coach at the time that holy cross, i believe -- >> he recruited holy cross. >> yeah, karim abdul-jabbar and you know he had made some racist comments and so that does come up in the book and certainly stand talked about the interaction he had with coach donnie you over that incident, but i know your time is tight

eddie but do you want to talk about that? i think certainly one of the themes that is, is that you know father brooks understood that this was not something that was simply just good for the students. he felt it was good for the college. he felt it was good for the other students there and i think it's telling, the books who wears -- there were assigned to the students who were there this time. the autobiography of malcolm x was one. poverty in america by one of your fellow alumnus, michael harrington so i think that was very much a theme but i'm going to let eddie address it because he knows better than me. >> what is your first name? >> dean in my opinion not only jumped in but he swam the nile. is brian canal here? brian -- come on. ryan was one of the white students that walked out with us and i would like trying to tell

his own story. >> also the black corridor points out it was three-quarters black because there were not enough lack students to fill the black corridor. yes, yes. >> thank you. i think dean's point is that we all gained a great deal from being at holy cross during this time of change, meeting people from different backgrounds, and i played football for one weekend busted my helmet. jeff dickerson was my roommate, so we got along. sophomore year, we decided to run together and we were up on healy for, healy for. and i recall one interesting story. i shared this with father mcdonnell. jeff dickerson's data think was an architect and i didn't know

that architects carried marbles. next door was a jesuit priest, father o'connor. i think he was the president manager of the building as an architect. he had marbles. and i remember a day they were both kneeling down on the floor in our room and ruling the marbles. and i thought, this is pretty cool. my mother was a marble champion in like 1935. [laughter] so i could relate to this but i didn't realize, that is the kind of thing that we were exposed to. [inaudible] >> that's right and that is a happy memory. >> it was very difficult. we felt that there had been to many, all the black students had unidentified and only a fraction of the white students to part

and the demonstration so we felt that there was overt racism and we were going to support all the students. i remember very tumultuous thinking, what am i going to do? how will i explain this to my parents? you know, what is going to go on? but then, over that weekend, the people realized how important it was and father brooks and ted and clarence -- >> not clarence, bart. >> they all got together and discuss this and talk to the trustees and eventually they work everything out. but it was just a dramatic time, a powerful time. we all learned from it. and i happen to be on the college judicial board in my senior year and there was a

demonstration on campus. students could have other students represent them in the disciplinary hearing. and so we had several great students, john parr bocci zero representative someone and ted wells representative a student who got in trouble. all i could think of afterwards was, i hope that i never have to face ted on the other side. he representative this fellow who was very intense. years later i saw so many different venues. >> and he said that was the start of all his pro bono work. [laughter] he never quite recovered from that. i think there was another question over here.

>> eddie, don't go away. my question was for the students who were like eddie. i have a freshman in college. you go through the process in u.s. father brooks who was an intense guy, making the pitch to come to holy cross. what was it like for your parents having to contemplate something that was probably very difficult to even think of in 1968? >> i think it would be interesting, because you had several options eddie as well so you talk to ed jones and was the only school that would let him in and gave him money and i think eddie was mulling over several choices. holy cross not being your top. >> so i go down south. this is cathy vance. >> this is pg rated tv here.

>> her husband was not only one of the finest bass cobra all players at holy cross but -- he is a great man, a great man. glad to have you here. [applause] if any of you have relatives like the executive program at the harvard business school. so i thought i was really good and really fast. coming from new new new york, af berrigan and so on. bayer insures today me so we all line up. the first three or four players that win this race they are going to get scholarships so we line up and we are running around and i take off the first dirty for and killing everybody, right? people started passing me and i end up, my god, finishing last. i said god, who were those last four or five people? they said, those were the people in the band. [laughter]

.. >> he will wave to us from the super bowl if you're watching on sunday. so with ted. ted will be there, too, on the opposite side. so go ahead. >> my name's jim, i'm in the class of 1970, i'm home with bernie kelly and jim. i was one of the two students on the college judicial board for the walkout, and so i sort of saw it from the other side.

and, of course, the first thing i did when i bought your book was look in the index, and i wasn't in there. [laughter] >> you were one of the names taken out. you're in the archives. like who's that? wait, develop his character more. i can't. >> but the process that went through it, there was a serious hearing, we cross-examined mr. shea, i think his name was, and he was out there, he was in the open, and we went at him x. then when we got into deliberations, it was really the two students against the administration and the faculty, and the decision was made over the two objections of the two students. i think we wrote a dissent, but the drama was just so intense, and then as you said, that ended at 3:00 in the morning. we went home, came back and this had happened which was just such a brilliant move, but it was incredibly intense in the book. i haven't gotten through the

whole book yet, but it was great in bringing out that, so -- >> well, and i think what was interesting is, you know, father sword that this was, in fact, what they had done was a clear violation of college policy. and so technically, according to a policy that had just been passed even days before, i think specifically to avoid this type of situation they had broken the laws x so it's interesting -- and so it's interesting, you know, what it was that really bothered these men was the fact that it was the organizers, specifically the organizers of the sds or the rsu i think it was called at the time -- >> right. >> -- and these random black students who happened to be with the same kind of, you know, hey, there's a demonstration, i'll show up crowd that would probably go to a lot of demonstrations, cared about the war. so father brooks clearly saw it as racism. you know, you protested. but i think just getting people to understand that, you know, the difference between the letter of the law and sort of

the spirit of what was happening. i think one thing that comes through, i hope, in the book was this wasn't a tactical move where they thought, you know, well, we'll just get them to come back. these men thought they were, essentially, abandoning their education and knew full well that many of them would not have other options. clarence thomas, for one, knew he couldn't go home because he'd been kicked out for having left the seminary, so -- >> the other focus in that hearing was the fact that not only was it the four black students who were chosen, but it was also the leaders of all of the political groups in the school. and clearly what the dean's office, and i think the dean admitted that at the hearing, was that they picked out the people that they knew, the leaders. and there were many people this that corridor, but they picked out the ones who were the leaders and was the sense that --? >> opportunity to get them off campus. >> exactly. exactly. >> no, i think it's a very dramatic time, and i think it was, you know, it just

crystallized, certainly, i think, was what made the relationship with father brooks so strong because he personally fought very hard to bring them back and to get the college to reverse its decision. >> great book, thank you. >> thanks for sharing. thank you. >> i've got a question, diane. what was it like interviewing the, um, the gentlemen? were they all cooperative? did everybody buy into this right away? what was it -- >> you know, i think, um, well, interesting, obviously, justice thomas l was challenging, and when we first met the first thing he said to me was, um, the problem with your industry is that, you know, journalists lie. [laughter] i said, oh, thank you for having me. [laughter] but you know what? i think i did not come in with any strong agenda about clarence thomas. i don't, again, have the history. he then proceeded to give me three and a half hours of his

time, had met with me since then, and the warmth that he showed, the sense of humor that i had not seen necessarily in public settings took me by surprise, and also i think the, um, like very specific memories of holy cross and very warm memories. what was surprising is those of you who read his book, he wrote memoirs, his grandfather's son, he spend very little time on holy cross. i think it's four pages. very little time and dismisses out of hand the way he was then, you know, considers himself a radical who has, you know, changed and can transformed. i think what became clear through this process, and i'll move to the other men, was that he, i think, actually shares many of the views that he did, in fact, have at that time and feels a closeness to these men that continues to the. today. he and ed jones were very close through gil hardy who died, those of you who knew gil, and i

think that i, i think part of this process in recent years is he has reconnected with the college. and i'm hopeful that the book was part of that. but i think it shows a more kind of nuanced side of to what formed clarence thomas, and i think that he understands and appreciates holy cross at this point in his life much more deeply than he might have even several years ago. the other men were generally cooperative, you know? ed jones is not a wild extrovert, and is a brilliant writer, so writing about somebody who's won a pulitzer prize for literature is intimidating, to say the least, but very deep memories, and i think in many ways many of the issues he fought for then he thinks continue unabated today. ted wells is a lawyer through and through and was very -- there's a difference between writing an article and writing a book. and so there was some discussion with him and stan when i suggested the idea of a book, it was like, well, that -- all of a

sudden a book, you know, you start getting into girlfriends and relationships and, you know, problems with mother and everything else. and which he didn't have, by the way. ma wells was wonderful. but i think that he was, he wanted to make sure it was accurate. and so i did, you know, make sure that whatever, that everything was accurate. one thing i did was i had, i didn't really go heavy on the dialogue because there were disputes over what people said, and i think it's just natural that there's revisionist history, so you try to get multiple, you know, multiple points of view on what happened at a certain time, how people behaved. at the same time, you can't give them complete approval to just, you know, go through and take out whatever they don't like because that, essentially, strips the book of a lot of the interesting details. so all of them were cooperative. i think they were very generous, and i think the reason, um, was father brooks. certainly for clarence thomas, the reason he did this, the reason he came back to the

college was because of how strongly he feels about father brooks. so -- >> [inaudible] >> hi. >> hi. >> just a couple of comments. i was class of '77 at holy cross -- >> all women. yes with, you get to see the women all the way through. [laughter] >> that's right, that's right. which was an interesting addition, it really helped us grow significantly. but, i guess, a couple observations with regard to the black corridor. i was struck by the fact that how few both black and white students had very little interaction coming from places like d.c., philly, some of the, you know, heavy inner city areas. a lot of the black folks had very limited interaction, and a lot of the white folks had very little interaction. and i think it created an awkwardness that really, you know, i think the schools

attempt to navigate through that, but there was still, you know, a fair amount of work to do because i think there was a general sense among black students that the burden was on them to reach out -- >> yeah. >> and not necessarily in the other direction. the second point, i guess, that i would make is with regard to an emerging black middle class at the time that a lot of this stuff was happening. um, i think the world looked very different from an industry standpoint. there's the general motors of the world, you know, i grew up in western new york, and that was a big part of our lives there, and it helped, you know, promote unskilled workers into the professional ranks, and people were sending their kids to college. but given what's going on right now economically, i guess i'm more concerned as my kids head to college and some are saying what happens with the diversity objectives and what's the way

forward, i guess. >> well, it's interesting, and i think it's an excellent point because i actually wrote an article about this recently, and it was looking at the fact that this generation, you know, your generation that the fight was for integration. and, in fact, there had been a lot of entrepreneurship in the black community in part because it was necessary, you know, under jim crow. you had the black dentist, the black hair dresser, you were served, black businesses serving black consumers. and i think one of the things that's interesting to me right now is that, um, as a group -- of the new businesses that have been started in the united states, 25% of them have been started by hispanics, latino entrepreneurs. as a group, african-americans have lagged. and i think one reason is because of integration, um, there are some cultural issues as to starting businesses, access to capital and a lot of, um, you know, with the unemployment rate, i think a lot of very, you know, highly accomplished african-american college graduates went into the public sector.

and we know the public sector is shrinking even as the private sector hires, will continue to shrink this year, and one reason they went to the public sectors, those were jobs that are posted. they're transparent. it's not the way the private sector hires this sort of byzantine how did that guy get that job. these are jobs they could compete for on an open basis, and it's wreaked incredible havoc on the middle class. but it's an issue that i know reverend jesse jackson has made priority, and there's a lot of focus right now on how do you sort of bring back where the jobs are going to be which is small business, entrepreneurship and, you know, frankly, silicon valley? there's been a lot of attention on venture capital and what's happening in silicon valley, too, so it's a different world. thank you. i think that might be it. >> who else is here from the

late '60s perhaps or mid '60s that wants to reminisce a little bit? >> i don't know if we want to reminisce. [laughter] quick, reminisce. >> ed joyce. hi, i'm ed joyce, class of '71. and one of the interesting things of this, to me, having been there and a couple of other people have mentioned that they were on the college judicial board. i think i was on in between you. and i think part of what came out of this was, was the college took the position that if an incident happened and, um, there was a racist civil rights element to it, it would be considered as a defense in future, in future judicial proceedings. and i was on the board in the first one of those, and it was very difficult to deal with, this issue. it was an issue where i think

most of the white students on campus didn't think it was a racial issue, but most of the black students didn't. and you're on this college judicial board as one of the two student representatives with some faculty members and administrators, and you're trying to deal with this because you know that the black student involved clearly thought that there was a racist issue. and you knew that almost everybody else on the campus didn't think it was. ask is you had to deal with that -- and you had to deal with that. we got through that. the most interesting part of that to me was that was actually the first situation where, um, ted wells was the, was the defense counsel. and, um, i'm a lawyer now and sort of looked back at that being the judge, seeing ted wells handle the situation. and one of the defense witnesses was clarence thomas. so you're sitting there, now i'm looking back 40 years, and for those who don't know, ted wells is one of the most prominent

litigators in the country. >> he is. he was lawyer of the year, i think, a couple years ago. >> yeah, really a very prominent person and, obviously, know about clarence. so to be in a situation where you're observing this, even then ted was incredibly impressive. i mean, he really was impressive. i think he was a year behind me, so he was maybe a sophomore or a junior at this time. but just to deal with, i won't call it a repercussion, but what came out of the blacks leaving campus and the rest of the community trying to deal with it, and, you know, we got through it, and it worked out okay but it was a difficult time. >> yeah, and you forget how passionate people were. i think we tend to put ourselves back in our college days and forget that, you know, these were kids. they were 18-year-olds, 19-year-old kids, and the judgments that you make at 18 and 19 are quite different, the emotions you feel, and, all, some of the things they asked for bordered on ridiculous,

frankly. you know, especially when the muslim students came to look at the grocery lists of what they expected the college to buy right down to the particular brands of tea that couldn't be purchased in the boston area. that's kind of what kids, that's what they do. you push, push, push, see how far you can get. so, you know, there were, in fact, i think the black students took over another building, um, in their senior year and ran into another group that was protesting, and they had to divide up who got to do their sit-in where. so it was just the times and, um, i think it was difficult, and i think that not in every case can you say that they were always on the right side. in this case i think they were, and father brooks -- and i think history shows they were, but there were many incidents where they did things that, frankly, the college should have fought back and said, okay, enough already. but i think, you know, when i look back at this time, i'm -- i, first of all, it's such an amazing moment in history.

um, everything from even the fact that the entire football team came down with hepatitis, a case that ended up being written in the new england journal of medicine. you had the vietnam war, you had women, many different groups that were fighting to get an equal slice of the pie and to get the chance to see this microcosm with this group of men who happened to do very well. there were men who did not do very well. those of you in the class know that there were men who dropped out. african-american men, white men, not everybody makes it as college, and that was a particularly tough time to go to college, and many of them were coming to a white college for the first time and discovered that they were, in fact, not prepared. bob deshea i mention in the book, those of you who know him, was the top student by far at his school in savannah, came and discovered he was not prepared for chemistry. wasn't anything to do with intelligence. he had simply not gotten a curriculum that prepared him for the curriculum he had to face at holy cross.

and that sort of thing happened again and again. but i think a chance to look at that period and to look at father brooks and to look at the network that's been formed at the college again and again, i think is a story right now that i hope is inspiring to this generation who might not necessarily remember that period in history, and i hope the future holy cross generations as well. so thank you so much for having me here. thank you for your support of the book. and, um, you know, i look forward to, i hope, hearing more stories as i go on and meet more of you. so thanks again. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> thanks very much, diane. that was, um, really terrific. and certainly puts it all in perspective as we reflect as a community on an important era in time in the holy cross history.

and certainly, the determination of father brooks, certainly his leadership has meant an awful lot. not only to those talked about in the book, but many of us here in the room. and i can't help but just tell this one little vignette that perhaps the last time father brooks was here, um, a young woman asked, well, father, what was the talk down in the jesuit residence when the college, when the vote was taken to go coed? and he paused very, very briefly, and without hesitation replied, well, we thought we'd all died and gone to heaven. [laughter] so mideast -- he's meant an awful lot to a lot of people, and just as recently as yesterday there was an op-ed piece in "the boston globe", and it's a great piece particularly about father brooks in yesterday's globe. so i'd certainly like to thank the harvard club for everything

they did today, mike shanahan, my assistant who's over against the wall, appreciate everything you did very much. tom, kristin, christine maloney, thank you very much for coming down from the college and being so, so helpful and c-span for everything you've done as well. and finally, books will be available for purchase, and diane's here to sign the books. once again, that'll be back in the room where we had the buffet. and there's lots of things going on at the local club level, so check the holy cross web site in particular there's a great raffle right now, i think, for a big trip, a major trip. so it's a great opportunity to support the club. and we'll look forward to seeing you again in march. thanks very much. [applause] >> is there a nonfiction author or book you'd like to see featured on booktv?

send us an e-mail at booktv@cspan.org or tweet us at twitter.com/booktv. >> and now more from shreveport weekend here on book the. booktv. >> i'm laura mclemore, around conservativist here at noel memorial library, and we're in archives and special collections at noel at lsu shreveport. we're specializing in the history of documenting the history of northwest louisiana and the red river region. we have here today some of the, um, things that we consider the stars in our collection, one that we're proudest of that kind of is the opening of what one

would consider northwest louisiana, i think, is the clearing of the raft of the red river in 87 p 3. this volume is a collection of 107 photographic plates that were taken by r.b. talfort to document the aggression of the clearing of the raft in the red river in 1873 between natchitoches and just about shreveport. it was particularly important, it was the last, most successful clearing of the red river raft, and it enabled shreveport to become a really important trading port for the rest of the 19th century. unfortunately for some of the crew of the aid with the army corps of engineers, their visit

to shreveport coincided with the yellow fever epidemic of 1873 which just decimated the population. lieutenant eugene woodruff who was in charge of the raft-clearing project came into town to reprovision his boats and was caught up in the epidemic and decided to stay and assist. as a result, he contracted yellow fever himself, and within two weeks died, and his brother george then took over the project and completed it. and we have the papers of eugene and george woodruff here. they go with the album. this is one from george to his mother in march of 1873. he says: this week has not been very eventful.

the raft of drift number seven at which we were working last week has been removed, and after pulling some snags, we proceeded to number eight. this lies in a place where the river is narrowed and divided by towhead islands and is shallow, at least in that part chosen for the channel. this makes it slower and more difficult to remove the raft which is much the longest we have had. though composed almost entirely of cut drift. these photographs have been used extensively for books on the red river region and marley for louisiana history textbooks -- particularly for louisiana history textbooks for eighth grade students. so we're very, very pleased to have it. and there were two, actually, produced. one that accompanied the army

corps of engineers' report to congress which is now in the library of congress and this one which, i think, appropriately lies here in the region of louisiana where the raft existed. a couple of these other photographs, we have many, many photographs of steamboats since this was the outcome of the clearing of the raft meant commerce for shreveport. and this, this particular photograph is of a steamboat, the washita, which is pulled up to commerce street which is the street bordering the live in shreveport. it looks quite a bit different than it does today. another area of our history that people are quite familiar with one way or other is the oil

business, and we've gotten a lot of anticipation recently because of the haynesville shale. but oil in louisiana is really the story of the 20th as well as the 21st century. the first well was drilled in 1901 in desoto parish, and in this 1904 in caddo parish. so we have a very large collection of photographs documenting the history of oil exploration and production in north louisiana. one of the interesting historical facts about drilling in this area is that the first oil wells were drilled over a body of water, through a body of water in as early as 1908 in caddo lake here in caddo parish.

and, um, we have pictures documenting the very primitive now steam engines that were used as piledrivers for these. and one of the interesting things that we always note is that it's not just men at the, at the oil wells. oftentimes a photograph of the crew will include women and even children. when the oil business began in north louisiana, equipment was taken to the oil field with mule teams. and, um, they were usually a large contingent of mules pulling wagons through very muddy streets, often wagon hubs were up -- the wagon wheels were sunk in the mud up to their hubs, and the mules were sunk up

to their knees. it was not uncommon. our photographs also document the dangerous nature of drilling for oil and wildcat wells back in the day when there was no regulation of any kind. um, we have pictures as early as 1905 and 1907 of huge oil well fires. these two, i think, demonstrate just how regular an occurrence, um, catastrophic fires were. this photograph here is from 1911, and it says that it was the largest oil well fire in the united states up until that time, and i think represented a loss of a million dollars which was a lot in 1911. but the very -- and two years later in 1913 we have another picture, it could almost be the

same picture. largest oil well fire in the united states as of that time. so it was a very regular occurrence. so regular that there's even a man posing here in front of the, um, in front of the fire in a very casual stance with his arm propped against the fence post. finish here in our archives we've been here since 1974 and have done, um, a great deal of work in documenting the history of our region. we are the only institution in this area that fulfills this mission. >> for more information on shreveport weekend on booktv, visit c-span.org/localcontent. >> visit booktv.org to watch