i think many of you know it's oliver who is the problem. [laughter] so in order to introduce oliveira, we are going to see it initially a four-minute film grail of his work, just to acquaint you. prepared by the savanna film festival. okay guys, one. b. is not -- does not -- ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ >> you don't want the war? we don't want the war.a%i$ the vietnamese don't want the war. so why is the war? >> you intend to cooperate with senator irving's committee? >> mr. president, mr. president! >> teeny-weeny -- >> we've got a position in. >> the point is, ladies and gentlemen, greed is good and you

mark my words, will not only tall darth vader, but that other malfunctioning corporation. thank you very much. news not >> never forget on any given sunday. >> yes, the world is a terrible place. these knock -- news not ♪ >> say hello to my little friend. ♪

>> i guess i've always been sheltered and special. i just want to be honest like everybody else to do my share for my country. here i am the. guys nobody really cares about. >> not everybody becomes a united states marine. we want the best. we will accept nothing but the best. >> what i'm saying is i want to be treated like a human being. i am a vietnam veteran. i talked to my country. ♪

♪ [applause] >> oliver fought for your generation, for our generation. the vietnam war was defining

war. of that. and memories remain, even the younger generation. so what a thank you to tell us is how you personally got involved in that. i mean, i know there was ag draft. you were drafted, but something more than that. >> i came from new york city and went to the public library. i personal problems and i wanted to get out of the system that existed at yale. bush was in that class, george hirsch as well as many people of that type. i would say entitled. i dropped out and i consciously went over there to teach love m father was a republican.g make a long story short igo communism.

volunteered for the draft and baltimore would really mean. i disagree with on one thing. i don't think it is memory. job of hiding it and covering it reagan when he was president embarrassed, didn't really want so let's not kid ourselves. i made three movies about the

see what is coming now, coming i do not sense it has been absorbed as a lesson and that's a key problem in america. >> i think the way in which history is just raise in the minds of u.s. citizens, especially over the last 20 years or so it's very different than what used to be because the big difference about the vietnam war was that all factually reported every day on your television screens. i mean, we used to see some of those images in britain. i mean, repudiate and cbs. in describing a village being earned in saying that dan and this is what we're fighting for, freedom and democracy. and you see a village being burnt and women on fire screaming and running out. and what they have done since

that war is the country is very controlled and by two have shown is what they want you to see. where it is in the vietnam war that couldn't complete the control the stuff coming out and i was important. and of course the place where the fourth and forgotten at all is in vietnam. they will never forget it. so in america they forget it because you move onto the next war. but the people who actually fought for it -- i guess even some of the younger generation people protest worldwide to 50 million people countries. he was minimize two centigrade

looked like 28 days after, it cleared the streets of london. ver happened life. protest clearly. very clear to those in hours. >> the lessons of vietnam have been very bold and for you because you've made a about vietnam. and then jfk can't be argued controversially with many remember, many people criticizing very strongly for

that, that kennedy was possibly assassinated by the intelligence agencies because he was thinking of pulling out of vietnam. we'll come to that in a minute, but there is one scene at jfk, which i found when i first saw it quite hypnotic. it was about a 17, 18 minute talking heads seem, which in itself is quite remarkable for cinemark, today show talking heads, occasionally illustrated, making a very strong argument about what happened. we can't show you the 18 minutes today, but we'll show you a three minute clip. >> i never realized kennedy was so dangerous to the establishment. is that why? >> it's real question, is that? y, the highlander who is just a journey for the public.

qb, nokia, keep them guessing like some kind of polygram to as the most important question, why? y was kennedy curled? who benefited? who has the power to cover it up? who? >> in 1961, right after the bay of pigs, very few people know about this. almost 55, 56. it is a crucial document, classify, top-secret. physically in them, he constructed the general chief from here on forward the joint chiefs of staff would he wholly responsible for all covert paramilitary action peacetime. this basically ended the reign of the cia. jay jfk ordered the military to help them do it. this is unprecedented. i can't tell you the shockwaves that the sum of the corridors of

washington. this of course in the firing of general charles cabo, all of them sacred cows and intellisense for edward to. they have been very upset people here. kennedy's directors are never really implemented because of bureaucratic resistance. but one of the results was the cuban operation was turned over to my department as operation mongoose peered mongoose is pure blackouts. it was secretly based in the south campus of miami's university, which is the largest domestic cia nation, budgeted annually over hundreds of millions of dollars. 300 asians, 7000 select few minutes, 50 feet businesses who wish nonstop war against castro, industrial sabotage and all of this came under the control of general one. he did the distinctive roles and brought them into this country.

and the motivation and don't underestimate for the march of 63. and 25 states, 21 overseas basins. were talking big money. nearly 3000 so far. bell helicopter. who on spell? lewis had a bankrupt about developing about the f1 11 fighters. who owns that? the defense budget since the war began. 75, going on a hundred billion. in 1949, no war, no money. keep organizing principle of any society if mr. kerry garrison said as war. the authority of the state over his people resides in its war

policy. and kennedy want to end the cold war and a second term. when i took wanted to cost them ingrates in favor of cooperation with the soviets. he refused to invade cuba in 1962 and and a sedative to which vietnam. all of that ended on the 22nd of november 1963. [applause] >> is quite an amazing scene. the question is, as a true? >> i know some section, but it's based on facts. >> a lot of these facts3 >> a lot of these facts came from fletcher crotty who is a colonel in the air force and they worked very closely. he was an officer, but he was a focal point and did a lot of and he worked with them since he would provide the hardware.

hardware. he would provide the hardware, guns, planes, drops. so he used to go to dulles and weeks and he knows them all. in fact, he never pointed his finger at allen dulles, but the older i got, i do believe he was the man who initialed davis, who gave it. i think it solis and i think it and go the supreme. jim james of the counterintelligence chief who was slightly mad and paranoid and richard holmes was the deputy. i think those three guys that say now before i go to my grave where the real copper is here. >> know what commenced in your mind that eventually it was the intelligence agency that organized it? >> well, we could talk about it all night, but there's just no way to a pulled off -- it says

very clearly we do this consistently. we did it well. we were able to do with it very successfully. lisa zycher ran in guatemala and so forth. and then we ran into why not bring it here? if you have such a gigantic base in florida and guatemala against the cubans come and make sense to creep into our country. and to cover it up, too. the losses on the commission on todd. >> was that book you gave me come to the author's name? >> james douglas. >> book on the kennedy assassination. >> kennedy and the unspeakable. a book came out two years ago. james douglas assassinated. it's a beautifully written book. >> is very convincing i have to say. i read it back on the flag and it is pretty convincing. but the opinion is he recommends and focuses content, when will this ever come out, if ever?

someone must know. >> you know, you're asking for magic solutions to history. it doesn't work that way. generally the bad guys cover up and went. >> it's a pity that there's a wikileaks at the time. because then they might as gone quite quickly. >> so we see in that scene again the vietnam factor that you argue are they argue for the pharmacy gave you the same argument that one for bumping off kennedy was he was going to come out a great man. and in this next clip that we are going to see if what they actually did in vietnam, which presented in iraq and afghanistan. what is funny when we were talking before, i told you that why you're fighting in south

vietnam, i was north vietnam being bombed by u.s. jazz. her private peace mission sent by two philosophers to investigate all crimes and had to spend quite a number of nights and bomb shelters all over the country in days. and the lesson we were told and this is always happen in south vietnam, what you showed in the film. and it is so apprentice that i have to be honest with you. we did one day assist propaganda of north bbc's sanest and make us angry. they don't need to because we're angry anyway. but can this be happening? mns the archives and this particular clip i thought was very revealing that goes, this is a clip, which could be made about iraq or about afghanistan. so let's see it, too.

>> fire in the hole. >> fire in the hole and!

>> get out of here. don't do it. you don't belong in the non, man. you don't get it, do you, man? you just don't get it.

get out of there. come on, guys. let's get out of here. just back

because the vietnam war was loved by people, whether they volunteered or were drafted, it meant that the whole of american society was involved in it and if you manage to bribe your way out of not knowing or being away to canada or burnt your draft card, which many brief people dead, but by and large, every family in the country was the fact it, which man but around the breakfast table, families not politically discussed the war in vietnam. and because middle-class and upper-middle-class families were a did as well, and meant that she had a huge movement against the war, which spread to the gis as well. and that is dissent in american

society during the vietnam war, while the worm is being fought to talk to the high moments of the political country that people felt they couldn't go along with it and some people do crazy things. like the weather people. but i am large, the motives were to try and stop this war from going on. and that we have seen repeated. could it be because the draft is no longer they are and everyone has to volunteer for war? the people who matter in a way don't volunteer? >> are talking about the launcher army we have now? >> more than in iraq and afghanistan. >> this is roman garb. what is the word for? roman legions have a special praetorian card. trained.

of the united states. soldiers, which concerned the pentagon in 1972 or three there comparing the attitude of the i and there was a nervous draft resistance in england. popular. by world war ii, that's a wars against asian and whether and how to behave and there was more racism in the philippine war and certainly the korean war, as much as in vietnam. they kill koreans indiscriminately from south and north. >> there is no protest.

>> i remember once when i was in cambodia and vietnam grenade to the sisterly journalists on my way back from north vietnam and 67. wilford urchin met at his house in north vanden said was that bad? i said yeah, it was really bad seeing people dying every day. i said it's bad. he said yeah, it's bad. i've been there. but it's not as bad as the korean war because i was there. he said with a finished bombing pyongyang, there were only two buildings left in the entire city. and in fact, throughout north korea, every single building was destroyed during that war except the building and pound a job

think we show convincingly that the japanese didn't know the carpet bomb the experience were were killed. as just another bomb. they reacted when soviets bombed the chariot. the soviets were heading towards al qaeda, which is sacred territory of the japanese. so we tried to show his soviet entry into the far east that made the japanese give up, not states. very strong. these days the thing that if you had a dissenting voice doing the

hero dies on bombing the fourth of july because of terrorism and locked up in prison without trial for many a long month. so it's worth reminding ourselves that civil liberties have been curtailed very drastically since 9/11. so if we could just see that scene. >> what you have to say to these people? idea lack >> this war is wrong. this society lie to me, led to my brother. the people in this country going 13,000 miles to fight a war against people who have a proud history of resisting. we've been struggling with the

dependence for 1000 people, the vietnamese people. i can't find the words to express the leadership of this government. it sickens me. people say -- people say if you don't love america, then get the out. while i love america. boom of the people of america very much. but when it comes to the government stops right there. when it comes to the government there corrupt, a bunch of robbers. we are here to say we don't have to take it anymore. we are here to tell the troops they are killing our brothers in vietnam. we are here -- idea lack idea

lack idea lack [inaudible] are real cares for memorial day on wheels.

i mean, that is what happened. they voted. if the bankers run them, the german state will give up the money to bail out. a lot more. >> tariq and i have gone around on the subject mattered. he says that very clearly. my father raised me. so we are on different sides of the sands. i would say the only sane alternative to the environment is polar opposites is what ron

paul has been talking about. he talks about the concept of corporatism and and of course he differentiates from corporatism from what he calls the free market. and of course the free market is he believes the larger these corporations become, the more powerful, the mark of an integrated in the government access with corporations and banks and insurance companies, the harder the system becomes and the free market can no longer operate in a healthy way. ..

state intervention was out, public utilities had to be privatized, private capital entered the most hallowed domain for supervision. we were told all that, so don't even talk about anything else. then the minute the market begins to collapse all these same people have been telling us that please, help us out, so the state isn't allowed to help the poor because that is not permissible. [applause] but the state is about to help the big bankers and the corporations. i mean, his criticism certainly on the entire and even on the big corporations, but what is this alternative? how can you -- the free market has never operated in reality in any country. there's always been externals

help to it. you can't have the free market if you have monopolies and giant corporations controlling the were talking about. that is the separation that can be controlled. it's a question of controlling and that's where the governments have to be referees or of the government becomes a participant, as it does and socialism, they're becomes another form of corporate some. they haven't solved the health care. the cost of health care is achieved enormous proportions, and we should not half arrived there because it has been a collision between government and medicine and pharmacies and insurance companies, and i saw the fair market can work. >> but listen, if you look at the health care problem, the costs of health care in the united states or more than in those european countries where you have the state funding

health care full stop. here the costs are very high is because they won't break with the insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals. they paid an enormous amounts of money in order to get some health care system functioning which isn't really functioning that well. and i mean, in my opinion the only way to have a proper health system functioning in any country is that health should be free, no one should be able to profit on the health of citizens and poor people, which means -- [applause] which means essentially that the pharmaceutical companies in particular should not be allowed to make these profits, and in countries where you have the state pharmaceuticals as you know full well in cuba the medicines are cheaper, and when the brazilians produce the

medicines themselves, they are much, much cheaper, so it's not -- you have the state industry actually producing cheap medicines, and cheap also in parts of canada, you know, for different reasons, which is why so many americans buy medicines from canada, and many will buy medicines from cuba if there are no sanctions on that country. but then let's move to that part of the world which you and i both know well. in the south america where the state actually has been intervening to try to lift the poor up from poverty, and huge attacks have been made on them in the western media for attempting to do that. and the president's you talk to in south of the border, one of them in particular was very interesting. he's the one who actually be faulted.

he said they are not going to bury the money we owe. can't pay, won't pay. we pay a tiny proportion of it. finally the banking institutions have to accept it, but he made a different point, which was very startling, and i now wish we would have made a lot more of that. we did it, but we should have gone on a bit more, and that's six. >> the president pushed that day, that night. >> [speaking in native tongue]

[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [applause] >> the late president of argentina and died not long

after that film was made. then from this he was very cogent and intelligent, but it is astonishing that bush actually said this. that is what the character says in the movie in the organizing principal of society. >> it seems our system has been based in it since world war ii increasingly since the eisenhower regime. >> eisenhower actually warned about it. >> he warned about it, but he did the most to let it grow. >> but it doesn't work. it's not accurate because the united states has now been involved in large wars spending billions and billions of dollars on the war in iraq and the occupation of iraq, and billions of the war in afghanistan, and billions on the bases, military bases in the arab world, and yet it doesn't seem to be helping

the economy. so it's quite interesting contradiction that is growing up, and now you have ron paul for one, but even other voices have been raised saying that the war is costing us too much, they are not actively keeping the economy growing. so that's an interesting shift from that, and i think because the country has been largely apart from the military side of it, it has been deindustrialized over that. >> you know, a lot of stuff is bought from china, india and the far east, so the north can't help the american economy. as they could. you know, when 9/11 happened american capability was so weakened that the chinese had to be commissioned to produce hundreds of millions of stars and stripes that couldn't be produced in the united states itself. it's quite symbolic. when you need them to go to china and think how many can you produce and how soon?

but that is the symbolic that is happening to the american >> you're feeling when you travel to cuba and most of these important, argentina and brazil, they're has been a surge since the -- from 1980 to 2000, the economic development of that region took a negative hit from the ronald reagan era called the washington consensus realism, of elections and space elections, although it's not economic policies and was developed in the region is a new consensus, where the united states is no longer what it was and has -- we have seven to eight pieces in colombia. this is the tell what you have the south american command,

which is aggravated the brazilians as well as most of the south americans. there have been actions with columbia and the old columbia under the old president against ecuador. you know the history as well as i do, probably better. this area. they took a huge role as did chavez. is of another nature. it's -- and that's why it is true me down there to make this the kimmage results of the border because we are not getting the straight story, and i think americans deserve better mark worked with me at the center of economic policy research. he's doing an accurate policy on the south america. that news doesn't make it into the mainstream press. >> and related to that is the countries which are in a mess where you have had virtually no reform at all, one of course is

mexico, the neighbor to the south, where you now have a virtual breakdown of society. and the economy heavily dependent on drugs, which raises the question to be fair ron paul again raised this question of legalizing drugs, legalizing -- >> we agree on that. >> you will agree on that, too. [applause] >> welcome that is a free market actually. [laughter] >> well, maybe it is. it is a free market. and it's -- i think it's correct because in countries where they had legalized these drugs like holland, where you can walk into a shop or a cafe and buy your favorite weed, you can sniff it like you sniff a glass of wine before you drink it.

and the middlemen and street crime on the drug issue for this has gone right down. the statistics are very interesting. and so the big lobby, which is the big lobby again legalizing drugs in this country do you think? and why don't want to do it? >> you have the prison guard system and the unions and the people who benefit from the drug war which is the dea, which has grown into a 100 billion-dollar egullet a war, the budget is the change the money about ten years later and call that the war on tehran drugs, it becomes a war on terrorism in a strange way and they merge. >> the mexican situation according to virtually every report and books being published in mexico is not totally out of control. and, you know, it's obviously given the border and given the trade with the united states in this field. it is affecting --

>> they did a lot more, that's 40,000. we agree the drug war has been plenty. but the nafta agreement that clinton signed a 92 did the balance of the mexican agriculture and a lot of the trade, and it forced people into these ghettos where they made more money they made just enough to survive. so it's actually a very predawn did situation where you create work but the work is such that its sleeve labor -- slave labor. >> let's come down to -- >> the greatest boom in the economy is revision in the united states. it's apparently been one of the biggest adjustment in the immigration is the mexican population coming north and it's actually the biggest bill in the history of the world i think. and it outdoes johnson's war on

poverty. >> this is true. and migrants, especially first and second generation migrants do this all over the world. send money back to the country's from where they've come. it's had a huge impact on india and pakistan, the migrants working in the gulf and britain and west indians from the caribbean. >> a huge amount of money going around the world. >> but first how did your own interest in the fiscally developed, and when did it develop? >> i think it is a great story. it's a story told, it's the biggest example we have a factual things that happened you learn so much from it to the always loved it and it was well taught to me. but as i grew up, i felt like which is america was the moral good in

prize speech, and i believe that. this way wish to support it and i thought it was my time to actually as much criticized as i've been for distorting history, i really wanted to go further and get my feet wet and so i went -- i not only called you but i started to work with peter, the studies at american university in washington, d.c., and we are completing this ten our series and he with me has substantiating what we have done in the television series which is coming out i hope in may of this year from showtime. but i think it is something i can leave behind to my children and i think it is the most ambitious thing i've ever done. spec the more i've seen of it

from the end -- you sent me on the episode on wallace. there was quite astonishing that in order to prevent -- >> george wallace. there might be some confusion. >> wallace was the vice president under roosevelt for three terms, and this was the fourth term, and roosevelt was dying, and wallace was considered the too left wing, too progressive to become president if roosevelt died. and so they were organized to prevent him from being nominated at the democratic party convention, and all sorts were made. a guy that had it seemed a majority to be elected, they delayed the convention by one day because the chicago

democratic apparatus, not the most wholesome and the world. [laughter] switched off the lights, cut off electricity to the democrat party convention so they had to delay and that might they were spent browbeating delegates which is shown very incredibly. i was taken aback and had no idea that the it gone to that extent in order to subvert the will of delegates and the convention and, you know, we still don't know everything they said to these delegates or what intelligence agencies were used to try to prevent wallace from becoming rows of's successor. he would have been president instead of truman. the difference that would have made, we still don't know but judging from the policies, he was well to the left of most democrats, and including roosevelt himself. so they were very nervous, and

this was known to the generation that was around during the second world war. it's then he talked about today this particular episode in his discover wallace? >> he studied henry wallace all his life. it's a cool story. it's a movie on to itself. he was mr. smith goes to washington. he was naive, he wasn't jimmy stewart quality. she didn't drink, didn't smoke coming he used to study foreign languages and stuff like that. but he was an interesting and beautiful man, and actually was >> thank you. [laughter] and an enlightened one, very expert. be that as it may, it was a very dirty business, and it's actually come down to one night in july in 1944. we document that pretty accurately, pretty scary at the moment when he is about nine

seconds away from being nominated when they cut the lights and cut the power. the world would have been a different place. it's the way things happen that the difference would bring day, and truman has a reputation in this country and we go after truman, and in a very fair way we question so many of the things, the mythology around harry truman as the common man than more as the idiot man. [laughter] >> when is the untold history going to hit the streets? >> he had the lowest poll jr.. [laughter] he had that bush quality, that touch. [laughter]

>> we haven't really talked about the current president, largely because you haven't yet made a movie about it. [laughter] that can wait, i suppose. but, i mean, you know, the -- i was in the united states during the big election campaign remember people so energized by that campaign, and then i was here, you know, after words, and the disappointment. people felt it. they felt let down, they felt betrayed. of course the supporters say he never promised what these people wanted, and that's true to be fair, but he did excite them. but when you think back on it, you know, some of the slogans were a bit and and sort of pr slogans that have come out, change we can believe and of course can mean anything. it can mean no change at all.

[laughter] but i think there is of course -- >> like the times of india -- >> he was not able to go to

switzerland because of the indictment he would be facing from the icc. he's conscious of his foreign travel. >> well, he's careful where he goes because in some countries the war crimes lawyers are tough-minded and it would be very embarrassing for the united states if they indicted him. so i think he could legal advice before he travels. but in the of course has no problem at all on this front. >> said like a true pakistani. >> i mean pakistan would not pose a problem on this front either actually even though we've got just a set of all into skating the army and the government a hard time. but i don't think they would've gone forever. in any event, that is where he said that. what is your take on obama?

>> your take on obama. >> i'm very, very disappointed. i voted for him on the basis of his iraq vote. i met a few times, thought he was progressive. i was wrong. he wrote a book about it, you studied -- i didn't. i believed him. a nightmare and mccain would have been a worse nightmare. on that basis, is the continuation of the warrant terror that is most bothered me, sacrificed his principles to the country. surveillance state has grown larger because he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. he's been able to settle this. what i thought was a temporary become a permanent state, a condition wherein our rights, my

right. feel i live in fear. if a president has the authority to detain me or you can have me assassinated on the basis of his own judgment and we are willing him that right and i'm living here on a way of her, and living here in america on a waiver, i find it very scary. >> it is. it's quite interesting that even during the american civil war the people who were involved trial. >> the indefinite detention and even mentioned the nda, which puts us on military footing. the military can come in on the president's offer and take over any situation a demon anti-combatant situation. protest, your involvement with the business organization.

for example, i couldn't believe he kept going with the business organization. he's been the worst president whistleblowers never cared for five indictments under the espionage act. this guy is a serious him with whistleblowers, who by the way keep the government straight by jessica -- somebody would know in the audience, the beautiful defense lawyer at the justice department to try to defend the rights of john walker lindh was not allowed to. there's so many cases of government malfeasance that have been protected by the concept of what a security -- national security. it's frightening. >> and from that, it's a very easy transition to federal national security. >> oklahoma terrorist and that anthrax or nukes.

i swear, beginning to sound like chamberlain. >> don't sacrifice me. >> you think with all your tip will not make this you can appease islamic sashes to hitler. i see a world where an about 25 years america deserves our gun. the man is at 30, 40% in way of two oceans blocking us from the world reserves. you think we're going to have allies than? >> i present the world's population. we use 25% of its energy. you think russia and china are going to help us out when they need those resources themselves?

>> 80% of the world's future in a reserves their right here in eurasia where the prize ultimately lies. oil, gas, water. iraq alone, 10% of the world's reserves. 60 of 80 oilfields >> and probably a hundred gallons in the western desert are floating in a sea of oil. >> we have bases in more than 120 countries which include iraq. it happens. >> were the fertile chokepoint of civilization. euphrates is the biblical credo. we trained a swamp like don says. we rebuilt it. we develop its resources. >> they own it, we run it. pipeline, they resources finance the reconstruction. >> the power that will be broken

in my lifetime if we stick to the plan. >> what is the real exit strategy clinics >> there is no exit. we stay. >> spoken like a true oilmen. you're part of the plan back in the 90s. back to our dominant weaponry you agree with never allow another military economic writer to emerge against us again. so i don't understand. >> i try to hit and a half and i wasn't done. we invoke preemption, the right to use nukes whenever we see fit and i guarantee you, we'll be in a forever war, three, four words at a time. that's not the new world order.

there's got to be some global cooperation. >> no one against cooperation. we're calling the shots which gets us back to reality. lest we forget, where d.c. latin american presidents? greg denier. what. what is missing? >> durand. the mother lode, third largest oil reserve in the world. 40% of the world's oil goes right through here goes right through here. comptroller brand, keisha, control the world. empire comes a real empire. >> pitfalls. you go out here in the scare people when you talk like that.

what can you think about oil? the 9/11 terrorists, wmds, talking freedom and democracy and talking access to people. >> sera come the u.s. attached, not i. >> you know when i was coming up, it was a dangerous world, but we knew exactly who that they were. it was us versus them and it was clear who them was. but today were not so sure who that they are, but we know they are there. and i'm not going to negotiate with myself. i'm a gut player. always has been. thank you so bone tired of saddam who's always been arrested and i don't want our soldiers invading that guy at the desert. we've got to go this war going.

d.c. go now and tommy can start mobilizing. with 300,000 troops by early january without creating a stir. >> keep a tight lid on it. >> for the record come this is totally against the spirit. we agreed with our allies to let the inspectors do their job. >> as yogi berra said, déjà vu all over again. >> sundaes got to teach at a place in texas hold them. you just keep selling our friends at the u.n. whatever they say in the end, final decision is mine. >> s. commissary. are you with us on this cold? >> i'm with you commissary. >> all right, gentlemen. let's close this down.

[applause] >> i mean, it still horrifies me when i think what happened in iraq, which to be honest, the euro-american citizens have not grasped what has happened. i mean, a million iraqis died. even this current government says there are 5 million orphans in iraq, 2 million wounded. the entire social infrastructure of that country destroyed. political parties put into power by the united states who were taken away rights with iraqi women which they had enjoyed before. iraq was the most hated country

in the middle east in terms of men and women finished, san diego, to put and then obama announcing a troop withdraw that it was a noble mission. that is not the way the scene in the middle east. you know, even by people who are very hostile to saddam, including some of his jersey said what they did to us was horrific, absolutely horrific. but the business come in the business goes on and now they are talking about a war against what do you think i'm either going to war against iran? >> yes. i think obey an election issue visa and travel. romney has come on with who is

going to be the more patriotic, who is going to be stronger in the usual american muscle. i think iran will be already assassinated or israel is that you are supporting. and it's a very dangerous time. the nuclear issue is the same people out there, even the iaea come in the international atomic engine hasn't infiltrated by us with the japanese style. we put this guy in india suspect he tested his commitments commitments to us. her rady, egyptian who was anonymous and endless out and this is a very dangerous situation and the israelis providing a lot of the information against iran, which makes it like the wmd information, suspect. but what we are seen as it can be solved to the american public on the web is this television works. you keep mentioning iran has the bat guy. it just sinks into a consciousness.

says a political state. who think obama is a politician and he's going to run a whatever gets them alike did. the same way you'll never elect cuba because he has to win in florida. >> so what you're saying of course there's quite a few people believe that. my one sort of doubt is that still now the pentagon is not in favor of the war. all the material coming out of the pentagon and the defense intelligence agency leaks or statements sometimes but canady even gave me the feeling that they are not at all happy with the politicians playing their part, but that military men know exactly what happened, the war against iran would mean destroying their nuclear tears. these nuclear reactors are not conveniently in one place to be destroyed. they are all over the country,

including one is very close to the holy city that the iranians. and if the israelis are allowed to go on a bombing raid, which they won't do without u.s. permission because it's a very ayyç1 iranians do?ayay!qayayay or let's say the u.s. joins witq the european union joined sense that the collective bombing raid, it's a declaration of war. i think that they will fight back in the effect of which will be to strengthen the clerical regime and earnestly for the country will feel we are under attack and they're being right. and then what did they do? they will then take off the gloves in afghanistan, take up the cause in iraq, take up the gloves in lebanon where they have support and make it a warrant through four different fronts. it is not even a big secret. they talk about it if you read what the iranians are saying how they would respond.

close the straits of formulas, blockade them, drops it and stop them from functioning so that the oil flow to the west is cut down to get the economic crisis that's not a surge of minor threat. and knowing this easy i think the pentagon doesn't want to get into it. it's the politicians who are pushing on that particular front and the pressure here is coming largely. just to be fair because they don't want the nuclear monopoly to be violated. so it's a very tricky one. i don't think the u.s. establishment has quite made up its mind on that. >> i wouldn't underestimate the factor of petraeus' military men being at the cia. i do think televisions isc distorted. we know we thought tenetc distorted. we thought go back to the bush senior airman team b. was distorted about the sovietc

union. but the cia is the petraeus tha the hamas running, as you know, predator strikes everywhere in the world. there's a predator strike in the united states cause some domestic dissidents so to speak and i don't know if you read that about a cow war. it's interesting. when greenwald went after it, it wasc quite amazing using drugs drastically for police surveillance in the country.c but the issue is i wouldn't quite believe the pentagon on anything because their budget is going to take a severe cut in the state to pull out of iraq, did you have troops in kuwait, troops in qatar. they put a lot of privateboco contract is that i work in iraq. we basically had the consortium are often u.s. there's a lot of u.s. oil interests that are still there. so we have our finger on the button name. we want to control that area.

well, this thing could get messy. and if china doesn't play ball with us, then we are putting pressure on china as it is than all of this out china sea because the naval lanes we put our military fleet they are. we could have a two engagement were with iran and china. >> is very serious d.c. this is a question they have to think about very carefully in washington. >> you want to pay my taxes to the liberal establishment. this is where we feed them. we give them money to centralize government to make war, which is what some of them said earlier. the central problem. liberal republican action makes it different at this point. the liberals have been making more wars. >> a war in iran would have a huge impact on the chinese economy because the chinese signed a 30 year trade deal with

iran to get gas and oil from them. and if there's a war in that region comes the flow of kosovo full text not just the west, but to china. if the chinese economy goes into a depression, then it really is doomsday because they are heavily, heavily invested in the interdependence between the chinese and the american economy is of course very well established. so it's a dangerous thing. that is what i'm saying. but if there's no one telling the administration that this is an absolute disaster if you go to war in iran, it's quite frightening. you seem pretty convinced. i'm less convinced. >> i hope you're right. if obama is threatened by our army for aggressive worktime, he

will do anything to get elected clearly. at one point he did say want to be a one term president if necessary i will stand for my purposes. >> well, that's a joke, but -- [laughter] let's go to discussing the origins of how iran became a so-called problems state. ♪ >> the first thing that was done when you select in iran with nationalized the oil. he said this is not going to british. and at that point, the united states decided to back the british and the cia and intelligence organized the toppling of the regime, bringing the shower back to iran he fled and mobilizing religious people in iran. we have one adamant that enemy as common as some and everything

justified. >> all attempts by nationalist leaders to breakaway from the american embrace purely to defend their own country and to take rights away from the american corporations to favor for people in these countries will seem as a communist outrage. >> topple them, get rid of them. >> if there means linking up with the worst elements in south america or iran or asia, we will do it. >> and that was the first real leader to emerge from the arab world who had a stream of unifying the whole world again, it were a being defined by imperialism and colonialism. it used to be one world.

you could move from jerusalem to cairo, cairo to a mod, mod to damascus. it is a world of cities. and when the british empire backed by the scratch is a subsidiary decided to fight a world, to draw artificial boundary lines, to create boundaries, they then make the base essentially for what we now know as the middle east. and that there was determined to burst that process and create them. nation. >> so nothing changes really in different ways. empire, empire beard who's going to change at? ukiah tharp. you know, i mean, all the changes that will have to come i think there's no way the united

states can never be defeated military and rather than be defeated military, now they will destroy. so the only hope -- i always say this and i mean that, if people in the united states. new generations, all generations. not everyone can make more, that things have to be done to do something. i don't accept this view that the american empire is on the decline. it is on the economic decline, but not on the ideological or military decline. it's still very top i did enable use force and not politics to keep control if they have to unless there is a movement beard and that is quite frightening. and what you said just now that it's not just america, closely your the u.s. parties at the

centerleft and center-right to do exactly the same thing. no difference. i mean come a few certainly want differences usually on cultural issues with issues, there are differences obviously. but on the major issues on the world stage with the economy, during a real difference difference is that all and that is frightening because that affects the functioning of democracy. if you don't have an alternative , you know, however limited it that alternative doesn't exist, then what is the price of democracy? what happens to democracy? and i've heard many americans really emirs in texas say, i really have. the chinese have got to justify the right. when he was interferes with ernie's democracy just interferes with ernie's democracy just interferes with ernie's democracy just interferes with youth never been tempted to make a film by china

because they now come your films are very internationalist. >> hear a lot of people on wall street in new york, this is a new threat they say. i disagree, but the chinese have, you know, come along. the very economically powerful. their economy will not implode. they have such leverage over us at this point. but the people account, the wall street types have a lot of influence and money. they talk about china as the next challenge to the united states and they move past the middle east now. it's derived and contained them they can handle and keep the oil flowing inward a good position in the near east and eurasia. but china is a big issue. so you know, i do think china -- you have to look at the history. history is crucial.

i'm not talking about tibet, which is the big issue, but i don't agree with the chinese webpages at all, but they have no history of expansion or aggression outside bears bears bears. the russians have no history of aggression outside. the russians have no history of aggression outside a limited landmass. the knives dates, british, french, the ottoman empire has history of that. do you go by history. china is not the threat we make it out to be. the chinese can be cooperative. they're smart, practical, deal. they're not written by an ideology because the now time is gone. they want to make money. they want to succeed him into a pretty good job of stimulating that were created and continuing their own power. at one point we tattooed caster about that, as to why you could not hand over your power and take the economic chinese model.

and he said he applied. i don't think he say to me, but he implied that could've gone another gone another way at that point. the chinese model can work. if we could learn to live without the aggression we have, the world will go on. empires change. rome declined, but there was a [roll call] that existed for 600, 700, 800 years. >> yeah, but the romans really never realized that out there in the distance there was china. there was a mediterranean empire. >> i don't know if you're michael parenti's book but it's a fascinating power of a the senate and the oligarchs of them and how julius caesar was much more of the liberation for a populist than he's given credit for. but he made the point that you

could live very well and the outer reaches of the empire. increase you had this this life if you are roaming up about 700, 800. >> if you are in a right. >> inconstant noble did go along. imperiled. >> media always talks about the decline and fall. they talk in these germanic absolute and that's the way of characterizing things. it's not good to the process of history, which is slow, deliberative and frankly generous. history has been far more generous than they make it out to be. >> i mean, the chinese are a bit apprehensive because an old acquaintance of mine was a professor of history at cambridge and he was invited by the pink tank of the chinese bureau, which was people who leave the country to give a

talk. and he set a date talk about this, that and the other. they said no, no, we're not interested that. they want you to give a talk on how the peak of its industrialization the british avoided a revolution. >> so they know what they want. and they know what they're fearful of because the base of modernization and capitalization has been so huge that we still don't know what's going to happen in that regard this country. you know, building these medium-size cities, some of them remain populated. i think the 21st century is going to be a century of both america and china in each of them are quite accessed with the other in her ways. so we shall see what happens. and a, i think the time has come to end this session, which i

certainly find very interesting. the conversations continue a different part of the world. and thank you very much for coming here. [applause] >> in a very special thanks to our friends from the the new yok public library who organized this event. [applause] and oliver and i were given the privilege, which is really privilege. all of you can do it is going up in the documents for a where they are rare and old documents and we were shown quite interesting things. president jefferson's account for all the money that was spent by his household and then to my

astonishment they showed me obviously an intelligence document from pakistan in 1963, which then that the united states was extremely concerned that pakistan was not a loyal enough alley, so nothing changes.