scene where someone is talking to one of the lawyers about why they had to do this in total secrecy and it was partly because of the lieberman idea that slipped out and they wanted to drop this kind of bomb on the morning after the speech and they couldn't send people to talk with a lot of people. they would have loved to. it was a kind of interesting and-talk to a person's enemy and their family and the lawyer was astonished. how can i do that without talking to everybody? you can't. that is the way this situation is. it raised -- it made it clear it

was a process forced by a strategy oriented situation as opposed to what was the wise choice. we took a back seat at that moment. we reverenced secrecy in the rest of the film and we have that scene talking to john mccain on the phone and we tried to tell that story but it was one of those things. i wish i had time to get that point heart. >> mark halperin? >> i don't remember what his line was. >> it is in the german dvd. >> the audience will await it. question from the audience? the gentleman over here. >> question for danny and jay roach. the casting was inspired. any thoughts how that came about? >> the whole cast was incredible. the main focus for me, all

directors a casting is 95% of the job. once you have a great script, great script based on incredible material, really compelling central character who for me whose story sort of sold the moment was unbelievable. the story when i saw that interview steve did with adam cooper so then it is all about who is going to play sarah palin? how is that going to work? such high expectations. they seen tina fay over and over and we talked about a lot of people. it was actually danny on the list, always on her list said i think julianne moore would be great and i the skeptical. she is one of my favorite actresses ever but somehow i didn't get it and we finally took a photoshop process and put the glasses and the hair on and

the clothes and dressed her up like you would and using the computer, it just hit and ok, the main goal was to make sure we had an actress who would play the character in a relatable, with all the dimensions required to go past the media iconography and presented persona and the real person. again, julianne moore is excellent in everything she does. i knew it would still be safe with the would-be audience. they're serious about this. this is not a caricature. one of my favorite moment in the film when she is watching tina fay play sarah palin. i wish i could be fair when sarah palin does. i hope she will watch this movie. two people playing her in the same shot.

i want the shot of all three of them. one of the most difficult choices was at harris for john mccain because i didn't have anyone else in mind. i couldn't think of anybody other than ed who could do that. the sense of humor. the kind of unpredictable kind of -- all the qualities of john mccain. also had to look like him. somehow the julie -- he started eating more. and gained weight. once that happens and we were lucky he said yes. and julianne moore -- woody harrelson was a dream actor. you always see -- i haven't seen a movie i haven't liked woody harrelson. one last point. we did not want to make a

propaganda piece. we had no interest in not telling the best story we could tell of all the players and respectful to these people as human beings trying to do the best they could. no heroes or villains. do the best they could but against a series of complexities and against each other in a way that doomed them to this dysfunction. you can't do that without the greatest possible actor that i cast three of my favorite actors because i believe i needed you to go in with them and experience this with them and the most empathetic possible way and that was our bowl all the way down the line with every character. >> i want to lodge a complaint. julianne moore, sarah palin. scenes and ferry would test someone so much less handsome than steve in the movie.

>> so noted. this comes from someone on twitter. i would like you to hansard afterwards. given attacks by his own people on john mccain as manager and leader wonder if he would have been a good president. it comes from that discussion about enhance the trail in the movie but you said the sources you spoke with described him as not part of the management. what is your sense of whether he would be a good president? did feelings about him change over time? >> the vast majority of people think without a doubt from the point of view he would be a better president than barack obama but some in the campaign and you see this almost every losing campaign, some people i talk to you say based particularly on his performance in the financial crisis that gave them pause and something in

the book. the one of the leading republican operatives, and chose not to vote. john mccain was troubled by his leadership and organizational performance. people close to john mccain and supporting him feel he would have been a better president than barack obama. >> i think it changed little over time. one of those things, when we were doing reporting on the book right after the 2008 campaign, we ran into a lot more people who were really fond of john mccain. one layer out, senior republican, hard core partisan republican who saw the way it john mccain behaved and

reluctantly -- there are a million things wrong with barack obama. he doesn't understand foreign policy but seems to have run such a good campaign and senator mccain was so at sea, i am comfortable -- more comfortable with obama becoming president at that moment in late 2008 early 2009. i think now many of those same people would go back and revise that because they began to have much less charitable view or positive view of barack obama's management skills as they have played out over these three years -- and policies. they also feel even the things they gave him credit for that he would run such a good campaign so he would at least run a good white house. talking about partisan republicans. they changed on that and say we were wrong about that. not only was he as liberal as we thought he was going to be but has not run a good administration. >> your own sense on that and those of your colleagues. >> one of the things i like

about the movie is how john mccain is portrayed. you see in the movie for lot of us why we love john mccain. the integrity, the decency of the man. i will say as someone who has been in the middle of two presidential campaigns the notion that the candidate is managing the campaign or the chairman of the board, could not be more dead wrong. it is a full-time job. they are communicating, speaking, doing all of the stuff. the dysfunction in the campaign wasn't driven by john mccain as a manager. even a couple of years later routinely referred to as a campaign manager of the campaign which i wasn't. when i go on television or do an event that has to be corrected i say on organizational principle,

ibm or xerox or small business, the notion that there's a lack of clarity of who is in charge is a sign that there is something wrong. there were a lot of challenges in that space and i think navigating a campaign is a totally different endeavour than governing and leading the country. in fact, one of the dysfunction in politics is they have nothing to do with each other. at a certain level. the campaign wasn't fundamentally about -- about the challenges of the country. if you look at the $16 trillion debt, nuclear prospects for iran, talking about mitt romney's dog on the roof as a major campaign issue, it is about trivialities. john mccain is not a trivial man. he is a serious man.

he would have been a fine commander in chief. i think that the country would be in better position today had john mccain been the president. obviously the american people decided otherwise and you have to accept the verdict of the american people. >> time for one more question. the gentleman in the blue shirt and blue tie. >> kyle simmons, virginia statesman. felt like i was sitting on the staff meetings and private events during the campaign. as for mark and john, steve said earlier there were things he would never talk about that happened in the campaign but is there one moment you wish you could have heard about or been part of or seen?

>> we did a creditable job describing what it was like in sarah palin's hotel suite during the week of the republican convention. those four or five days but if you ask where i would most likely to have been baked into the wall, because as chaotic as the film portrays that momentum was much more chaotic than that. one of the things these guys had to do to make it watchable was for example the early foreign policy tutoring, take it out of the convention and put it a little further down the line. the actual beginning of the foreign policy began in st. paul. among all the things that were going on. for getting the wardrobe or the convention speech, filming and doing foreign policy and

responding to the entire media maelstrom of what is going on. all of that is happening in 72 hours in that hotel suite. i don't think i could imagine. i would love to have been able to see it in the flesh. >> that is all the time we have for today. i would like to thank our guests for taking the time for this and thank you in the audience for coming out. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here on line. type the offer or book title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search. you can share anything you see on booktv.org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. booktv streams live online for

48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. up next on booktv the author of king larry recounts the life of the co-founder of the shipping company dhl the disappeared in 1995 in the western pacific. this is just over an hour. [applause] >> thank you very much to book people and c-span and thank you for coming to the talk about king larry:the life and ruin of the life of a billionaire genius which business week has compared both to and leonard caper and trashy analog to walter isaacson's biography of steve jobs. king larry begins on may 21st, 1995, which if you were in the state was heavily from the adjacent and murder trial. but with a beautiful sunday

morning hand a small plane who took off from the airport with two important people on board. one was the speaker of the house of the commonwealth of the northern mariana islands and the other was mary home better known as dhl. .. >> so a number of his friends had declined to make the trip with him that morning, and no

one was terribly shocked that this plane had also gone down. however, it was a real shock that larry hillblom was suddenly gone. he'd arrived there 15 years before, and he'd become a larger-than-life character in the mariana islands. he bought the bank, he bought the airline, he bought the television and radio stations, he built dozens of businesses including the pawnshop and had been a bartender, so he was very well known. and there was a sort of myth those that was just incompatible with him being dead. but when they went to search for him, they found p two other bodies, the pilot and the speaker of the house, but hillblom's body was never recovered, so this sort of furthered the sense of disbelief. but they had to presume him dead, he was lost at sea, and a few days later hundreds of people flocked to kingsburg,

california, a little town in central california just south of selma which is the raisin capital of the world. but hundreds of people including members of the saudi royal family and ceos of major corporations and billionaires as well as normal citizens, dhl drivers and friends from college descend on this tiny little lutheran church to pay their respects. and their really surprised because what they all start to find out talking to each other is that larry was not at all who he said he was. he had, for example, told people that his father was a bank robber who was electrocuted at san quentin, and now they find out talking to his high school friends that larry's father was a roofer who died of heatstroke when he was 2 years old. larry had told them he was the captain of the football team in kingsburg, and they find out he was not, but he was 130-pound

linebacker who got his contact lenses knocked out so frequently that the picture in the senior yearbook is of the football team on their hands and knees on the football field searching for larry hillblom's contact lenses. they find out he wasn't this jock and this ladies' man and this brilliant, charismatic person they'd assumed he would be, but he was actually a very awkward kid who was raised in the church and obsessed with howard hughes. as one of larry's friends back there told me, this guy is somewhere out there where the buses don't go. that was their impression of larry. [laughter] he furthered this impression by saying really odd things to people. like his best friend he told he was going to make a lot of money and move far away, never talk to him again. which sort of took offense to, and larry thought this was a totally acceptable thing to say. he was going to make a lot of money and marry a catholic girl. he didn't want to give half of

his fortune to a catholic girl, or to a, you know, to a woman. he told them various times he wanted to be an actor, and he decided he wanted to be an evangelist, so he would study jimmy swag earth late at night and blacked out everything but the minister's eyes. and he also vilified his mother for some reason. he would tell friends about all these wonderful things that his mother would do for him like hayrides, how she actually drove him to law school his first year because he wanted to keep his job at the cannery which was about a three-and-a-half hour drive back and forth. and he would say, you know, she did all these great things for me, the bitch. like, he had this very odd way of talking to people. he goes to bolt school of law

school which was a hotbed for the or feminism movement and the sexual revolution. and his ec seven terrorist si -- eccentricity continues. he ridicules jane fonda and joan baez and thinks it's ridiculous anyone would care what an actress or a singer thinks. and his professors can't even understand him because larry believes that the law should be a function of business, you know, law should be structured to help businesses succeed. so back to the memorial services, his college friends and law school friends and high school friends and people he knew in saipan were talking to each other. a couple of common themes in larry's life. he was very, very stubborn, and the other is he is a master after manipulating people to do what he wants them to do.

and this is really how larry eventually made his great fortune. he became a courier out of high school, and he would fly from san francisco to los angeles every evening after he picked up documents at insurance companies and banks in san francisco, the bay area, and he would drop them off in l.a., spend the night at lax, sleep in a chair or wherever, pick up whatever needed to go to san francisco the next morning, take the earliest flight out and be back this time to go to class. but he realizes there's a huge market for this because at the time it's really only the post office delivering mail and documents, and they're doing a very bad job of it. they're very slow, and they're very unreliable. so the summer after he graduates from bolt he runs into the salesman from this little courier outfit who was kind of a silver-tongued ladies' man, 55 years old, very smooth talker,

and they decide they're going to start their own business and take advantage of this great demand for express couriers. l -- he gets another guy, robert lynn, involved and who's a real estate investor, and he's going to provide the money, and dalcy, hillblom and lynn, dhl, incorporate in september of 1969, and lynn immediately drops out because dalcy and larry can't stand each other, they're complete opposites, and all they do is argue, and it's clear this thing is just going to be a total disaster which, which it is for the first year. they don't have any money. larry's the only person available to be a courier, so he's living on coffee and methamphetamines and going back and forth between l.a. and honolulu, and he's either living on a porch, on a friend's couch or in a station wagon. he's dumpster diving for food some of the time, and they're

just unable to really sign up the clients they need. they can't get insurance. but the idea is so strong, and it's such a great, there's such a great demand for their product that eventually dalcy's magic begins to work, and they get bank of america, they get the federal reserve, they get maxim shipping lines, they get ibm, and suddenly it's just taking off because no one can believe that dhl can actually pick up their documents one around, and the next morning before their office across the country or the pacific ocean is open, their documents are there. it's just mind blowing. you know, this is five years before fedex, so word gets around, and dhl just starts to take off. and larry's got this kind of odd charisma that gets people to work for free and to get people to rally around the cause, and he carries chairman mao's little red book around him, and he's

just convinced a master of manipulating people, which he is. and in one year, their second year of business, sales go up 1,000%, it's just taking off like crazy. but that attracts attention. first, it attracts the attention of the fbi because the fbi's hearing about all these people frying for free, and -- flying for free. so they send two agents out to figure out if this is a drug-running operation, and eventually the fbi agents become convinced, and they become couriers because, you know, they can't believe what a great deal it is. dhl gets attacked by loomis, the nixon administration which says that they're an air carrier, and they're not allowed to fly without a certificate. and they're attacked by the post office not just in the u.s., but around the world because they're doing something that is really considered illegal. the post office is supposed to have a monopoly on delivering mail. but larry just wins every time, and he starts to have this kind

of uncanny knack for beating all of his competitors. so, all, by 981, 12 years in, dhl's the fastest growing company in the world, and larry is bored out of his mind. he does not want to run a company, he wants to be howard hughes. he wants to be behind the scenes, pulling strings. he does not want to be sitting in board meetings and sitting behind a desk and the typical things a businessman would be required to do. and he discovers this little island called saipan which is very beautiful, but it's also a bizarrely magical place in that you get 95% of your federal income taxes rebated there. and larry just thinks this is the most amazing thing he's ever heard about in his life. so he immediately moves there and goes about becoming a citizen. he buys these businesses, he runs for office and loses. but he eventually gets appointed as a supreme court justice on

the island and gets to know all the politicians and offers up his legal services for free which means that he can write the laws on banking and real estate and all of these other really fun things. that also happen to benefit him. and now he's coming under attack from the fbi again, and they see him stirring up the islander politicians against the u.s. the u.s. has this covenant relationship with saipan in the marianas where they're supposed to really maintain control, but larry doesn't want the feds come anything and auditing his tax returns or, you know, exercising any authority over him. he wants their hands off of his island. so now he's got a new cause which is independence for the mariana islands, and he's got new enemies. there's a guy named bill millard

who runs a computerland which has been another one of the fastest growing companies in the world. who decides to move to saipan because he's heard about this 95% tax rebate, and he holds a press conference announcing that he's going to move computerland to saipan, take advantage of the tax break and not pay income taxes which drives larry crazy because he wants to keep it under wraps, and he knows the reagan administration and congress are going to go crazy. so larry rewrites the tax code so millard has the to go away. [laughter] which he does. in fact, millard became a tax fugitive and was just captured two months ago by the fbi in the cayman islands after 25 years, i think, on the lam. he also mixes it up with frank hour rens sew, the most feared corporate raider of his day when they both want to buy air micronesia which is the local air carrier there.

so, you know, they go to battle, and larry ends up bringing hour rens sew to his knees so well that he forces him to personally give him his ps1 pass which is the card that allows a ceo to fly on any airplane anywhere in first class even if someone has to be yanked out of the seat in order for them to do so. and larry just once again has this amazing ability to beat these much larger adversaries. for reasons that are elucidated in the book. eventually, larry -- a lawyer who thinks larry's not who he appears to be, and larry's seduction of the politicians and buying all these businesses out

there and also the owner of a tv station out in guam who gives larry the title "king larry" and sort of ridicules his pretending to be this, be this great person who's just writing the laws for free but is actually someone with really nefarious motives and a great deal of power over these people. and finally larry attracts the ire of the state department because they hear he's tarted to invest in vietnam which is illegal under the trading with enemies act. and which he was, actually. in 1991, about ten years after he got to saipan, larry had sort of become bored with that, and vietnam had been a naturally attractive place for a guy like him because it was illegal for him to be there which larry loved. he loved anything he wasn't supposed to do. and it was really virgin territory because americans weren't allowed there. and he'd started going there, and it had to be so secret at the time that he actually was brought in the trunk of a car

across the border because it was illegal for americans to, um, to do business. so when larry died, there were, there were some investigations including a grand jury that was looking into his activities in vietnam. but after he died, after the plane disappeared and some people still think he's alive, so i should say he disappeared, another investigation began, and that was of larry's sex life. now, there were a lot of rumors, and on an island like saipan it's not difficult for rumors to spread, larry had told people, he told a friend he had slept with over 250 virgins. he had told his law school professor who was now the dean of bolt hall that he had spent millions of dollars procuring virgins because he was terrified of aids. he had told his surgeon who had come over with his wife, and larry was trying to get the surgeon to take a girl in p front of his wife which was kind of larry thing to do. he did this all the time, and

he'd actually flown out the board of continental airlines to violate name and manila and took some of them on a tour of his extracurricular activities explaining he could tell girls were virgins if he took them into the shower in his hotel, and they knew how to use the shower. these girls were so poor, that if they knew how to use indoor plumbing, they'd been in a hotel before or been with a westerner before. why do the investigations of his sex life matter? well, larry's will -- although he was a lawyer and he was surrounded by lawyers -- was 11 pages long double-spaced, and all it really is said was don't put any taxes, and set up a trust, and give my money to medical research, preferably at the university of california. so because there was no allowance for children, if you could prove that larry hillblom had a child or you were his child, you would inherit his estate which at the time included most of dhl and assets

variously valued at close to a billion dollars. so thousand the stage has been set -- now the stage has been set for a battle between the state of california which thinks that it's going to get hundreds of millions of dollars for medical research and larry's friends who, in theory at least, want to honor his final will and testament and his wishes and a bunch of strippers and prostitutes from asia and their very young children, one of whom was with actually still in the womb, who under the law are entitled to take this man's estate and dhl which admits at the time that the nightmare scenario will be owned by an infant from southeast asia whose mother is an exotic dancer. [laughter] so that is the battle that his disappearance in the plane sets

the stage for, and these lawyers who knew larry from saipan primarily start going to manila and other parts of the philippines and vietnam and palau looking for children. so they make these pamphlets, these flyers that say if you've slept with this guy, call us because, you know, if you got pregnant or, you know, you had a baby, you're worth a lot of money. and it turned out it's not that hard to find these women. and they find a woman who has a boy, and they find a couple of young girls in manila, one of whom is just 15, 1 at the time -- 14 at the time she was impregnated, and it becomes a real battle to be fought in this tiny little l courthouse on saipan in front of this former police officer who is now a judge.

now, it's also a battle for larry's legacy. his family and friends don't want to believe or admit that larry was a pedophile and had this very prolific sex life, and they don't want, you know, his money to go to these women and their children who they think, clearly, well larry never would have wanted them to have a dime. on the other hand, the attorneys for the children -- including johnnie cochran at one point from the o.j. case -- who insist the children are larry's legacy, and not only that he didn't change his will because he wanted them to be included, so, in fact, this was like larry's final little practical joke to set up a huge estate battle with these kids he'd fathered versus his old friends and family.

this became a huge, huge battle. it was called the world cup of probate at the time, and there was a lot of talk about larry's legacy. he told his best friends he really didn't care what happened after he died because he'd be dead. but the end of the probate i won't, i won't reveal. um, i will say, though, going back to the top of the conversation steve jobs has been compared to larry quite a bit now in the reviews s and i didn't realize how similar they were until i started reading her about jobs. they were both brilliant, they were both obsessed with technology. larry had actually created one of the first word processers in existence which a lot of people didn't know. it's still used in the middle east, the dhl 1000. you know, they were both flawed but visionary, revolutionary, and they were both anti-social men who also really had an interest in connecting the world. but while steve jobs' legacy, i

think, is pretty well decided at point, larry's continues to be a source of much debate and much, um, controversy. and maybe it is unresolvable, but maybe we'll resolve it tonight, i don't know. [laughter] with that, i'd love to take your questions and talk about king larry. >> um, you say his legacy up is up for debate. is there any thought as to what it is within saipan right now? >> yeah. saipan is really much like the rest of the country or the rest of the world in that i went there, you know, and talked to, for example, a woman, an attorney's wife, and she said this is the only place in the world where known -- the law library's named for a known pedophile. [laughter] she was just beside herself about that. and, you know, understandably so. on the other hand, there's larry's friends there who think,

well, you know, that was just larry. and during his lifetime, i think it's worth mentioning that larry got away with a lot, and this was not a secret. it was an open secret. i mean, you had the board of continental airlines flying there and seeing him at these places. you had the bishop of saipan called larry his favorite heathen. you know, people were aware what was going on. and a lot of people knew that larry had a son. the first child was 11 years old, so that kid had been around, and his mother would come to larry's house and bang on the windows at 3 a.m. and demand money, and his best friends would pay them off and make her go away. then she'd come back next year, demand more money and scream and yell. so people were aware of what was going on, and larry's certainly not the only man who indulged in that kind of activity in that part of the world. so he just did it a lot more. and it became a huge issue after his death because there was so

much money involved. but, you know, there is a cultural acceptance of men sleeping with much younger women and, um, a cultural acceptance of polygamy and, you know, illegitimate children in that part of the world that is not, not the case here. so if you're an american going to saipan, it was sort of a rude awakening to see the larry lee hillblom law library and hear people talk about how great he was and, oh, larry, this and that. but if you were there and you accepted the culture, it wasn't as big of a deal. >> what happened to larry's vietnam holdings? all his investments there? >> larry's vietnam holdings, you know, the take on larry as a businessman was -- with the exception of dhl -- that he was always 20 years ahead of his time. so he got into vietnam very earliful and he wanted to, he wanted to be the first, and i

think he got off on the fact that he was getting there in the trunk of a car, and he set up this holding company, disguised his ownership, and he was there, and the state department was going crazy about it, but he was going to outsmart them. you know, it became this sort of cat and mouse thing with larry. the great thing is it allowed him to why some incred -- buy some incredible properties in vietnam that some people say will never be purchased again, they're just incredible. the bad thing is he was 20 years ahead of his time, so you had hotels that he built, for example, where people in vietnam couldn't stay in them, they weren't allowed to stay because they were scared they'd try to cook in their rooms or do things that were fine in the local culture, but you couldn't have people, like, cooking in their $300 room at the palace hotel. so it did not do well. he put in over $100 million before they were ready for business, and they were sold a few years later for 15.

so they lost about 90% of their value, um, in five years. and during his lifetime they really killed him. i mean, they, they were a huge drain on larry, and larry had set up his businesses in such a byzantine and complex and weird way, it was almost like michael jackson where he was worth a lot more dead than alive because there was just no way to untangle everything that he'd created and support an investment like vietnam. so, you know, people speculate he staged his death because the vietnamese were coming after him, and they were very upset he was late on his payments and so forth. it was a disaster, basically. >> how did you get interested in the his story? >> i read about hillblom's, the probate in "the wall street journal" in 1997. there was an article called air freight, the strange life and

bizarre death of the shipping magnate or something. there was a front page, above-the-fold article, and what this journalist had done is go to vietnam and go to manila and go to saipan and just started interviewing people, and, um, you know, portrayed this completely bizarre human being. i mean, he was germ phobic, he was very wealthy, but he drove this old honda civic with rusted-out floorboards and dirty t-shirts and flip-flops, and he would show up to congress in, like, ripped jeans and a surfing shirt and flip-flops. he was just a totally bizarre individual, and yet this reporter just going to manila for a few days, you know, finds three of his kids. or three kids who said that they were larry's. and it was just, you know, kind of fascinating not only, like, why would this guy move to saipan as dhl is becoming hugely successful, like, would mark

zuckerberg move to tonga next week and set up an espresso café? it was sort of like that. this is the fastest growing company in the world. he's becoming super rich, it's his dream in life, and he moves to a little island and becomes a bartender? there's just something very weird and compelling about telling that story and finding out who this guy, this guy was. >> so, clearly, dhl started in the u.s., the first routes were in california, larry took on the post office, like you said, and won. and yet dhl's not really much of a player in the u.s. market even though it was found before fedex. >> right. >> why is that? >> there's a number of reasons. one is that larry really took an interest in the u.s. market, and larry was not necessarily a great businessman. he was terrible with details. he was a terrible manager. and the international growth was

handled by other people, people he hired. he was a genius at hiring. and so, you know, larry had all of these crazy ideas about everything, and the u.s. was sort of his incubator, and most of them failed, and they definitely paid, paid a price for that. you know, larry hired, like, a grocery store executive to run dhl for a while. he got bored with him, so he hired larry roberts who invented package switching which was a disaster, and they just lost ground and lost ground. and when fedex came in a few years later with their own airplanes, they ate their lunch. i mean, they, they, you know, they took dhl's business or what business dhl would have had in the u.s. for the most part, and then dhl's u.s. cities just became gateways for their international business. but, you know, internationally dhl is still larger than ups and fedex which i think a lot of people don't realize.

all right, well thank you very much for coming. appreciate it. prison -- [applause] >> this event was hosted by the book people bookstore in austin, texas. to find out more or visit bookpeople.com. [inaudible conversations] >> all weekend long booktv is bringing you live coverage of the 2012 tucson festival of books in arizona. today until about 7 p.m. eastern and tomorrow from 1-8 p.m. eastern watch several author presentations and panels on a variety of topics both here on c-span2 and online at booktv.org. here's our upcoming tv schedule from the gallagher theater at the university of arizona. in a couple of minutes, jeffrey rosen talks about the supreme court. then in about an hour and a half a panel on forensic science with douglas sta, holly tucker and