and then, my highlight players are going to lobbed hand grenades down the open hatches and the other members of the crew are going to machine gun the germans on deck for gusts may military and intelligence historian nicholas reynolds on hemingway the spy sunday night at 8:30, part of american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> now timothy stanley recounts the political career of pat buchanan. mr. stanley is joined by mr. beginning to discuss his childhood here in washington d.c., his work in the nixon and reagan administration and his present -- presidential campaign. this is about an hour and 10 minutes. >> thank you very much for coming.

you are not here to see me though, and i'm cool with that. a big part of my marketing is to choose someone who i knew would do something really controversial and of course photographers would turn out in l.a. had to say was "msnbc"'s loss is my gain. [laughter] [applause] the first question people usually ask me about this book is way up growth this? i'm english and not american. why would i be drawn to write about pat buchanan? and the answer to that, the answer is fairly simply. i'm passionately in love with america. is a very exciting dynamic country and where the revolution has been ruling on for 300 years. it's had a few problems lately but i think it's still grown in the way i always phrase it as britain is like my crusty old wife. america is my young mistress.

[laughter] although i see much of my mistress for financial reasons always draws me back to my wife. but the reason why i wanted to write about pat, well i discovered why it written about pat retrospectively. i stumbled upon him as a historical figure quite by accident. but a lot of people my generation i spent a third of my day on youtube and while i was going through the usual videos and frolicking monkeys and pandas by sheer chance it really was luck. i came across a speech÷" mr. beginning gave in 1992 at the republican national÷" convention. you might be familiar with it.÷" it's called his culture war÷"÷" speech and if you watch that÷"÷" regardless of the politics and struck where the rhetorical and" moral force of that speech, in which pat declares america was in the grip of the culture war, a religious war and important to the future of america and the cold war for it is a war for

america. so, with that speech i would argue pat buchanan defined the politics of the 1990s and in many ways marks the age of buchanan as it is the aychip be -- bill clinton. i saw that and i was fascinated. i want to say more about him so i invited people who are washing machines the lever foundation and they gave me money to come to america and travel around and do interviews. and i'm terrified of flying so it was quite an extraordinary experience. i flew out to los angeles and ran into some crazy libertarians and i took a train to kansas, interviewed a few people there and took a train to new york and met some teamsters types there and then take a train to -- and right out of the south into the confederate veterans. i'm sure there are a few around of them and amazing they're still living. some are confederate veterans. then i came up to d.c. and i was very fortunate to be able to

interview mr. buchanan himself and really to form the kind of hard in the soul of the book. and in the course of writing this, i reached two conclusions about pat buchanan. the first one is that his life is really a biography of the conservative movement. he was born in the greatest of great ages, perhaps the greatest age the west will ever seen. he was born in 1938 to an enormous family, six brothers and two sisters, and he was a roman catholic at a time when it was pretty cool to be catholic when thousands of people would gather at football stadiums to pray for the conversion of russia. it's an age where america was very confident in this growing and has an industrial base. he grew up in the shadow of mccarthyism and his father was a convert from the democratic party to the -- party.

pat rue up in washington d.c.. he was even a caddie to a young richard nixon when he was vice president. he then became a journalist. he met nixon. nixon took him on. pat was by his side when nixon reinvented himself,, the 112 time in 1966 and he was with him as well in 1968 when nixon won the incredibly close election to go on to become president. than pat was there at the heart of the nixon administration as a speechwriter at a time of extraordinary cultural conflict in america perhaps became the closest to civil war at a remarkable time. he is one of the very few people who emerged out of the nixon administration and out of watergate with a clean reputation and tom braden, your colleague on crossfire once remarked pat buchanan, the only former member of the nixon administration who didn't require a letter from his parole officer to go on tv. [laughter] pat then went on to become one

of the nation's first professional tv pundits. he helped invent a show called crossfire which radically change the way in which right wing people appear on the media. in times past conservatives tended to be a bit like william f. buckley, very sophisticated, quite polite, quite sort of, not that pat isn't intellectual but very much dealing with that kind of high realm of ideas and buckley is much like we talk about. it's like doing in an interview in ancient greek or something and then pat comes on and brings the style of ordinary rough-and-tumble politics into tv with punditry. it's from that you get the legacy of ann coulter and shaun hannity and even glenn beck. pat then worked under ronald reagan. he was his director of communications during the iran-contra scandal. he left the reagan administration, went to become a private citizen and a great columnist and in the 1990s

around three times the president come i want to discuss that a little bit and during that time became really the face of the conservative case to the republican party out of conservative middle america. so buchanan's life if you want to do a history of the conservative movement in america you do very well to read pat buchanan's biography. it's a very good primer. the second conclusion that i reached was that buchananism was as much a social force as it was an ideology. that kind of people who were drawn in the 1990s to campaign for pat buchanan were as much a reflection of a particular time and a particular democracy that they were up a set of ideas. in 1996 when pat buchanan won new hampshire, the new hampshire primary which was probably the highpoint of his presidential career, his were the poorest,

the most likely to have been unemployed and the most likely to be independent. he very often won the male independent vote and crucially previously registered as a buchanan's vote was exactly of float the republicans shape nowadays, defecting democrats, people angry. and i think if you grasp that and you understand the historical importance of buchanan then you had better understand where the tea party comes from and where that kind of politics of today comes from. if you read at the moment history of books tend to finish at 1980 and stop with the reagan revolution. that's not true. to the 1990s when the south seriously turned republican at a congressional level and it's much later they turned republican at the state level and buchananism is all about that. if you want to understand the tea party have to understand the roots that were laid down in the

1990s. as a result of all of his travels, in retrospect, i realize why i've been drawn to write about pat buchanan and the answer is that many of the issues that he is concerned by and have motivated him are global and international. i grew up in a family that was very much part of that middle american democratic. just happen to be in the southeast of england. my father was born in england. we don't give people great names like blue-collar. we get the numbers in britain my father was what they call b to which is a skilled worker, a guy who laid cables underground. globalization of deregulation and all the dramatic economic changes over the last 30 years, they affected him and growing up i experienced two years of joblessness in my household and i saw a great man. i understand that kind of people who buchanan reached out to and

understand those people and i suspect those people in their heart of hearts and quite often voting democrat, were really rather conservative because the things that matter to them were family, faith, the place they grew up in, their job and facilities. those are conservative issues and that's something a pat that pat buchanan got in the 1990s that many republicans including the people running for the presidency today don't entirely get. i want to finish briefly before i go on to talk to pat. i will finish briefly by saying that regardless of what you think of pats ideology or views on any issue, i think -- by duty and by love. there are very few politicians you can say that about. [applause]

[laughter] i wanted to start because they do want to talk about the 1990s because that is what's interesting about the book where the tea party comes from, where conservative comes from. wanted you to explain your transition in the late 80s as a solid orthodox reagan conservative to the early '90s, the change in your views and what those changes were and how they affected the way you saw the republican party and policy?pr >> i left the reagan white housr inp2 1987, sort of toward the ed of thepr iran-contra and i was : friend op2f george h. w. bush. i have to tell a littlep2 storyr

when i came out of watergate and the nixon white house i was out ofp2@: a job and my wife who wa2 receptionist at the west wing,pp she quit to come home and workúr with me. we had just bought a house, ú2p22 sop2ú2ú:p2p:úr@2p2p2pr@rp2@:@2pp he came down to a number of issues in one of them was, i saw

what was happening to american manufacturing and to these jobs in manufacturing, and i have been a milton friedman free trader. i said wait a minute, let me takep2 a look.pr i believe in this philosophy, i've studiedp2 it and followed 2 my whole life and i saw thatp2 they manufacturing jobs were leaving the country and factories were leaving the country and these were a lot of the folks whose jobs they have grown up with. my mother came from the valley in pennsylvania. my ankles were asking me why it was free trade when it was killing all of these job so i took a look at that and came to a different point of view. the second thing was the end of the cold war. the cold war that inspired me to go into journalism and politics and government and the white house because it was my belief in 1960 and 61 that we where you know, this was the great cause of our time and i wanted topr people involved in this cause.

and i did as an editorialist going to work for nixon. what happened was in 1999 and 1990 and suddenly the berlin wall falls and eastern europe is free.pp the republics, the balticp2 republics are free, the soviet union disintegrates into 15 countries, the red army is back and hey we won the war.@2ú2pr it is over. it's bloodless and george bush had a hand in it. ronald reagan, we have done it. so i said now it's time to brin2 the troops home.ú2 just like the russians thoughtú2 we should go home. and so, bush took off and weú2 aren't grenada and somalia endeavored storm and we are all2 building a new world order.ú2pr2 i said that is not what i signed on for.ú2 the third thing was we hadú2@2 clarence thomas. we want and we were back in the

battle with, on his side getting clarence thomas confirmed and then they turned around and signed a quota bill imposing quotas on small businesses. they had to prove they were not bigoted by the labor force they had. and so after crossfire one night i was driving and i said if no one else is going to run against him i am. i called my sister and i said let's go. and i made a crucial call to the manchester union leader and she said come on up. the water is fine. so that brought me into the 1992 challenge of george bush. he came off a talkshow host 10 weeks before the primary and we got 37% of the vote to george w. bush, george h. w. bush 51% and i think we beat the city of manchester working-class city. that is how we got in. it's a long story but that's how we got into it. >> would never run for office

before. >> i couldn't, i grew up in d.c.. m0m0m [laughter] my0m father finally got to votem and he said i've never voted0m0m from anyone from florida.0m >> richard gregory told me a story, you are driving around the two of you and you saw big sign, come to a bbq for a candidate and you said he said to mr. vickery, i would never do that. >> that's a truepm story.0m0m0mm we0m lived in the northwest ovem bryce sibley hospital.0m0-0m0m kelley and i moved0m and one of- the reasons was i thought maybem one day i might want to run for the0m senate 0m 0mpm0m0m0m0m0m0m0m0m

so that was basically it. there were too many things about running for0m0m0m the senate anm a senator that i didn't want tom do.0m0m let0m me tell you another quickm story onpm that.0m0m0m gaylord nelson used to come on crossfire.0m0m0m he0m was a wonderful liberal senator0m and he'd come on and m time i asked him, what is itúl like off camera? what's it like being in the senate? he said pat, i love the environmental issues. he said but i spend 70% of my time doing things i don't want to do. and so i said well i spend 100% of my time doing what i want to do. >> right, but you turned into a

national campaign, which surprisingly could have happened with you doing it of course. the only things from the new hampshire campaign trail that you felt connected with individuals and the instance where you went to meet some people at a factory. >> it's hard to tell the storyñó without getting emotional. >> i think it's very important and if you don't mind it's crucial. >> the issue of the treaty and its effect upon jobs had really affected me so just before we came back for christmas, about the 23rd of december, we went up to this factory, this paper plant. >> papermill. >> way up in the north country in this tiny town almost to canada. and so we went into the plant and we looked over and paul erickson said, these fellows were standing over there in the line. and paul erickson said you know, go over and shake hands with him.

so i looked over there and they looked kind of angry and they didn't look like they'd much like to me. and so i said are you sure? so i found out that they had all been laid off. they were being given turkeys for christmas. and so, i went over to this line and started shaking hands and one guy looked at me, about my size, about my age and he said save our jobs. and then we drove three hours to manchester in the in the end the next morning i read the eximbank was financing a new papermill iw mexico so i said what are we? doing to our own people? >> i think that is very crucial because you have to understand? that. >> let me say not only that, i went and 96 to north carolina. it was a lawnmower factory, john deere and they came out these guys and they are very tough

guys, you know. they are like the guys i grew up with in one of them came up to me and he said i have been laid off. do you know what the guy who worked beside me is doing? he is in mexico training his replacement to do his job. this is all over the country. i argued that in 92. if you go with these free-trade agreements, nafta and bring the chinese and you will lose every manufacturing job in the country. in the last decade, 2000 to 2010, this country lost 6 million manufacturing jobs and 55,000 factories. gone, one in every three manufacturing jobs we had are gone. what are we doing to the middle class and the working class of this country? we are taking away all their jobs. my view is, if it can't be made in the united states, should be made in the united states are going hamilton, you go to those old republicans and they believe

that. those old republicans have built this country. hamilton, henry clay, lincoln, mckinley, t.r.. baird wrote a book the great betrayal. they despaired to the nth power the free trade. they believed we are going to dump our goods there for free of charge and we are going to charge tariffs on their goods coming in here. they warned about a level playing field any more than bentz lombardi was. they were about winning. see a lot of left-wing people would agree with you. someone told me they came to interview and she was worried. you had very long hair and she said i think you he may be. he goes into seo nieces mr. b. canada just want to say you are the first my life who was spoken out about corporatism in national politics. >> i believe it was in iowa and a fellow came along. i think he had an earring.

most of the guys i grew up did not have earrings, you now? but he was in the car with me and he was driving along and asking me questions and he was clearly left-wing. finally he said you know, my whole life i have been looking for someone who would really take on corporate america and when i find him it turns out to be pat canada. [laughter] >> i do want to mention briefly the failure to build an alliance between liberals and conservatives on that issue because you did trying to thousand with reform. i thought there might be a moment with a tea party and occupy where that might happen again. it never worked. >> let me tell you one reason. ralph nader is a friend of mine. we didn't used to be friends. i was trying to sink his consumer protection agency which we did that ralph and i became friends over this issue and we have both went to the battle of seattle out there and world bank

and the imf and all of them were there and clinton was president. we were making our case and they have the teamsters with us. what happened was they had, from oregon. there's a great picture of me standing on the street corner talking to two sea turtles who were six feet high and they have got on their costumes. [laughter] a puzzled look on my face but they went out there and they0m were anarchists.0m0-0m they got the barrels and they rolled them at0m the cops and tm firebombs of the c0-ops.0-0m0-0- they got all the attention and then you have got folks who werm conservatives as you mentioned. if you start0m doing that they - thinking0m hey this is chicago m these are0- anti-americans. they are anarchists are you0m gm the hard-core people who would0m agree with you on0- the trade0mm issue and they0- start leaving m the coalition broke apart.p-0m0m

i knew this was going to break0m apart because these fellows wen- down to clear some square and0m raise m the issue why should the anchors be bailed out sitting a- a poker0-0m game losing a billin dollars0m in chips and they say- uncle sam get0- the taxpayers to replace our chips.0m0- and we did and replace the chipm and middle america's paying them price.0m0m0-0- they had an excellen0mt idea anm then you start to fight the cop- pretty soon and back and forth on0- that 0- 0-0m0m0m0m0m0m0-0m0m0mm i think0÷0m james burnham the0m- strategist said you can never put together a left-wing0m0m0m0m coalition.0-0m0m it is inherently unstable and it will fall apart 0m 0m0-0÷0m0mp-0-0mm

charles murray's book focuses only on0- the white communities and his book is his own0m classm i was a little kid in georgetowm and was four years old and we moved out0m here northwest, andm then i moved0m to mclean.0÷0m0m those were basically0m0m0m mid0mdle-class folks.0m0m0m people worked for the governmenm and0m it was a wonderful communy but in fact the parish -- but0-m now these are super zip codes0-m where0- couples have been to0m0m college.

people were moving together by their politics, by bush in 2004 with kerry 50% of the counties in the country had 20% or more for one candidate or the other. in other words people are separating. my larger issue which is controversial, and which may have brought about my separatio. is this. i think what happened in the 60s with the cultural, social, moral revolution ideological revolution, has set down deep roots. it wasn't the majority because

when i was with nixon in 72 we put together a coalition that crushed mcgovern and in 49 states. and 84, and even bush won got to 40 states. but, what is happening now is i think you have got, you have no common faith in the country now. it's partly secular and partly religious. they are at war with each other and you have no common moral consensus were ethical current. we are losing what we had growing up over here in wilson. we studied the same american literature and the same language in the same history and all the rest of it. all of these things that held us together are now disintegrating at the same time the core is no national, corporate country which is western european, 90%. that is disintegrating to a minority and we had none of these things keeping us together. so what i'm saying is we are

risking a balkanization and the breakup of this country along every line you can imagine. i think that's my fear and i don't think it can be turned around. in my book, i have a chapter that's almost 18 or 19,000 words dealing with some 35 or 40 countries, how they are breaking apart in terms of religious quarrels, sunni-shia christian, muslim and how they are breaking apart ethnically. you go to third world countries and even you go to europe, scotland wants to get out in catalonia wants out of spain. the laika noorda wants to break apart and brussels is almost always about to break apart. we have these problems in hungary. my friend over there paul gottfried writes, look at the rise of all these right-wing anti-immigrant populist parties and this i think is the future. people, even the chinese are not oblivious. look at the way they are doing

battle with the uyghurs in western china and shang yang and to bed. the tibetans tibetan religion and ethnic identities is challenging the breakup of china and the muslim, the muslims are getting to break away from china and establishing ease turkestan in the chinese were terrified at this. they saw the russians and everything fell apart. it ain't going to happen to us. i know we can't talk about that. we won't be talking about what it is that could kill us. >> i will challenge you burst upon britain we are happy with -- [laughter] so that does not worry as much. >> that is the same thing. [laughter] >> since visiting i have lived for six months in los angeles and i think hispanics do a pretty good job of integrating

and i think they share a lot of american values. they are very hard-working, very religious and very focused on their families. is there not a way of by change, melting pot operating? >> the problem with the hispanic -- you are right, heather macdonald did an excellent piece lately. i just saw a long piece she did and she is terrific on this but look, of course it's true of the white working class and the illegitimacy rate among white folks was two or 3% in 1960 and among the white and lower middle class, it's over 40%. in the hispanic community all of the hispanic community the illegitimacy rate is 51% in the african-american community is 71%. in other words you have got no families. the family has broken down and collapse completely. now, i saw a statistic that many of the hispanic kids, 19 times as likely to join a gang to get identity, to get the family, to get community.

and african-americans are only 10 times and that's an enormous amount. but even the asian kids are joining these gangs and that is one of come in all of these things are occurring and sort of breaking down society but look at what happened to your country last summer. you had riots and the immigrant folks rioted in the brits joinev in but in the northern industrial area as areas you had racial troubles. in france, they came out of thiw band loosened burns 10,000 cars. it's not pat buchanan.= oncolab merkel said last summer at that multiculturalism hasçw utterly failed. that's the problem.kwkz the turks and kurds in berlin,kz they were firing off rockets[wkç celebrating 9/11.çw they areó not fully integratedt all and then sarkozy, sarkozy said the same thing in cameron said the same thing so it's not me. diversity can work as long as we

can get that higher ground if we got 51960 where all the people came to europe and the catholic kids in the polish kids and the italians and the irish, jewish, greek and all the others. we were all steeped in americanism and we were all american. we came the depression we came through the war and listen to the same radio, same tv and see movies and study the same history. all that has gone out the window. these are the things that hold the country together. it's not only me. lee hamilton said this at practical forces in this country are growing stronger than the centrifugal forces that hold it together. i think that is true. >> well, we have got a lot of you guys over here. [laughter] if people want to ask questions

now. >> i think you need to go to a microphone. >> is this on? i want to ask you a quick political current question as far as newt gingrich goes with santorum fighting gingrich. [laughter] given that, mika brzezinski, what you see is what you get on the stage now. >> let me say this. and i probably shouldn't be talking about "msnbc" but i gotñ a nice note from mika and iú÷úmm enjoy working with her. i reallyp÷ enjoyed frankly "morningúmp÷ "morning joe." toúm great program and hispñúm camaraderie, like a family or am bunch of guysúm who grew upúl together and used to get in aúl lot of fights and things but asl they get older they are doingúmñ their best to be nice to eachúlñ other and make their points in a nice way.úmúñúmúñ

i reallyúm enjoy doing the shows i enjoyed my time on "msnbc." mika nika is a good gal. >> do you mess. >> i will never forget what's his name. [laughter] >> have to hear chris matthews comment. they were very kind i thought and generous. >> that was very nice of him and as they say i enjoy it. i tell folks and maybe i shouldn't say this, they asked me what it's like being over the air corps. >> you feel in any way you could probably

there, somebody said after the california because i promise those people i would give them a voice to frankly one of their issues and they said pat please get somebody to control this border. if they had done it then we wouldn't be talking about it now so we did that but in may we were down, shelley and i were at a huge shopping center and a poll came out showing ross perot at 40% and i think bush was at 33 and clinton was winning only arkansas. so in other words after it i had done all the damage i have done, bush was still far ahead of clinton and i think, and so look

i didn't help him by running against him but i think by the time, by the time you got to the convention, the fact the ross perot dropped out just as clinton and gore were on a trajectory, think those votes all went to him. i think it's fair to say take a look at what bush did. he got 54%, excuse me, 54% and 88 of the boat and he got 37% in 1992, 17 points right? he lost 17 points. how many votes did perot get? 19 so i think it's more perot but i think the bushes think i deserve a lot of credit. i think young young bush and the older bush i think they blame me >> the one interesting statistic war speech which is also things that made the republicans on

electable bush personally drunk nine points in the poll. child that was done afterward by the local media that brought that back down again. >> let me talk to that, because i gave that speech and that night and he is exactly right. reagan spoke right after me and all these commentators at the convention, they rows 10 points. bush came out of that convention and some polls 25 down and he was only two down coming out of it. in other words yet closed at the convention and the problem was when the media came after, they were scared to death of the cultural social issues but the fact is that the media are frightened, those are your issues because the media does not want us to win. i sent a memo to baker was when they started running away from the issue. what are you going to win on?

16% of the people think george bush did a good job with the economy. everyone says he's a good foreign-policy president but no one thinks that matters now so what have you got left? this guy is wide open on the cultural social issues as we found out later. if you're going after this, i think they would have one. the truth is, you cannot tell a candidate to do something that is not in their gut, because they will mess it up and they will run away from it. i remember in 76 i had worked for the agnew speeches and things intimate yet and we attacked the media and we have really clobbered them. nixon won 49 states in they came to me and said pat we are really getting beat up. i said i think so and then i said no, because it doesn't end here. somebody will give him a speech and he will read it and they

will start pounding on him. so he ran away from it and that is what they did with the culture wars. >> thank you very much. >> is it my turn? my brother was with barry at the manhattan centered center and 62. would you talk about young americans and the freedom and the new guard in your role in that? did you ever reconcile with buckley later in life? question is no. that. sort he sort of acclimated to do a i'm going to make this, i went to work because i had been brought into conservative movement more than the new guard and the rest.

and they said mr. figueroa went back up to columbia. threw me out of felt. goodbye and good luck to you guys. >> speaking of countries coming apart, quite a number of years ago when you are on the mclaughlin report, you've made the remark, you were discussing israel and palestine, you said as far as israel does it was a forgone conclusion it was a matter of demographics and not too many years after that there was the lead cia report that estimated they had 20 years to go. i wonder if you still feel the same way and what your timeline is? >> well, i will tell you i will advertise my book here. i have a chapter called

demographic winter, the demographic winter of the entire western civilization and in that idea was for example russia which has lost 10 million people since the liberation of the will in 1989. 10 million russians. they run scheduled to lose 25 million more by 2050. what's going on is what the demographers called hypermortality. is dying at enormous rates and the germans will lose eight to 10 million people. each new italian generation is one third smaller than the one before it. it is a fertility rate of 1.41. the japanese 127 million people and in that chapter i did something on israel. israel is more complex because you have a cultural orthodox there. they have death rates like that the canons and the families i grew up with.

out of the 50s even, so what you haven't israel is you have about 6 million jewish citizens and 1.5 million palestinians, 2.5 million on the west bank if you include, think that probably includes east jerusalem and then you have got about 1.5 million in gaza so you have reached the point by 2014 where the populations are west of jordan are balanced that 60% of jordan which is about the size of the general population, are palestinian and by 2050 as i figured it out, palestine proper and jordan, all of that you will have 3:1 palestinians over israelis or israelis. i don't think that is a survivable situation. if i can tell you a little story, people say you know on

that began in britain report we'd interview a lot of guys who work very -- he would come in and he was very witty and smart guy. he eventually got murdered on a bridge in new york but he told me mr. buchanan, and i was disagreeing with him, you have to realize israel will either be democratic or it's going to be jewish. we are not going to be both. he was are going frankly for pushing the palestinians off the west bank into jordan because he says demographically they will overwhelm us. as i said the ultra-orthodox i think will become more and more prominent in israeli politics and more and more prominent in government and the rest of it because the other part, the european ashkenazi are diminished. they have a low birthrate and this is one of the reasons i was talking about birth rates of the adl and -- attack me as

anti-semitic. i don't think it's anti-semitic to discuss what is happening demographically to western civilization which is physically dying. there is not one western country that has a birthrate that will enable it to survive in its present form to the end of the century. your own britain, they are talking 2066, 1000th anniversary of the northern kong quest when the native population of britain will be only less than half of the country. what is holding britain together when we saw what happened last summer? i think this idea of everything's going to be fine in the melting pot will always work, the melting pot works but we don't believe in it any more. they want it thrown out its cultural genocide. if you're not going to discuss this, the israelis are discussing it. they know the problem there and a lot of them are arguing we have to get rid of the west bank, we have to get rid of this in our own country and they have their own country.

this is the two-state solution. you have a two-state solution and you have a one-state solution. even now you would have 40 if you took the west bank, took all of gaza god that's sake you would have almost 50/50. so anyhow that is what got me in trouble. [laughter] >> you talked about manufacturing jobs but how you create u.s. factory jobs with the labor so low in china and india and without creating a trade war? how does one do that and by the way did you read the article about apple? >> 50,000 jobs more substantive than all the rest? >> how do you do that without creating a trade war? in the past we did have trade wars. >> how did we do it before that? the civil war, world war i the united states went from half the production of great written to

twice the production of great britain and as a matter fact we were more than britain, germany, france and we produce 42% of all the world's goods. during world war ii we produce half of all the goods used on both sides. in america they said for every crock fired as general motors fired back for. the greatest founder on of washington is hamilton. what he said was luck we will french uniforms, french muskets if we are going to be have to. took the tariff revenue, built

the ports, built the roads and build these things up, the internal improvements in the united states with the cost of these things high american said wait a minute, we can produce that for less here and so the americans industry built up-and-up and up in the civil war. you have those -- you had a tariff policy that meant the united states was charging money on all the products coming in, and low taxes, no taxis and no regulations for producers and our standard of living was high so we simply shipped into the british market. we exported 8% of all we produced and we imported only 4%, tea and coffee and things like that. let me tell you about the chinese. don't tell the chinese you have to reach the value of your currency. their currency. they save -- keep their currency where it is.

it's the equivalent of a 50% care. we are putting 50% tariff on all goods coming into united states and all that money will of them may taxes on you and manufactures in the united states. did anybody see the trade figures in the last year? we sold $100 billion of goods to china and they sold 400 william to us. they had a trade surplus of 295 plus billion dollars. what is going on in this country? they are talking we might do this to china do that to china. they haven't done a thing in 20 years that's been going on and the trouble was the republicans are more responsible than anybody else. they believe in free trade, every time you mention free-trade what about smoot-hawley? i have a chapter in my book the great betrayal rico i got it from another scholar or from a scholar, but he studied smoot-hawley and he said we had

smoot-hawley past, 4% of americans consumption was imported. two-thirds of it came and 1.3% was, came in not free with duties on it so we raise the tariff a bit on that and they said that caused not only the great depression that caused hitler and all that. it's nonsense. the things these kids are taught in those ivy league schools and the kids that came out of the schools responsible for the de-industrialization of america. where did they get that? they can get it down at walmart. of course it was in the '90s but i want to buy one of these big-screen tvs and i went in there and i said to the guy, i know the japanese make great stuff but i said i want the best american tv because this is other than the car this is the biggest investment you can make. he said there are no american

tvs. a lot of people in here grew up when there were admirals and phil kos and all the rest of them. >> mr. buchanan is good to finally meet you in person. i've been yelling at you on the tv for 30 years. [laughter] >> it was easier on radio. >> it's not easy doing this and i want to be respectful. i am very liberal and agree to disagree respectfully. i feel this evening isn't telling the whole story. i feel you go beyond being just a conservative and a lot of your comments, frankly some of what you say in what you stand for scares me. when you talk about demographics and there are too many people, in france what is happening there and in britain and your comments white american that

death of christian americans. that is in your book and i am jewish and i wonder where i belong in that because our thought it was my country too. and i'm wondering, if both of you could address, you have been criticized many times for some reader comments about jewish and i don't have to go with a litany. end of christian america. the title is taken from the title of a column by jon meacham in "newsweek," which was titled the end of christian america. and it comes from a cover story america. the reisner argued was, let me tell you when the revolution is here we had 99% of the country was protestant and 1% catholic and 1% jewish. we had been a predominantly christian country all the way i think you get up to about 1960 at 95% and that produces an

moral consensus, not only religious consensus but i moral consensus and ethical consensus. folks say judeo-christian, right the jewish community came out of europe, predominantly christian western country. that is what we were and these are the things that really help hold us all together. that is in our history. we went through world war ii and the depression. at the section in there, we were segregated in d.c. and segregate up when i was growing up at the african-american kids, they studied american history. we had christmas and easter holiday and lincoln's birthday and all of that, and we listen to the radio and read the same newspaper. went to all the same movies. culturally, they were is that american as apple pie as i was. what i'm saying is, and this is the final point is, the culture

comes from -- when the faith dies, the culture dies, civilization dies and the pp people began to die and that is what i have tried to prove is happening. we are in the indian summer of western civilization. i think all people are good but the idea that you can mix up all peoples into one country and call it a nation is to meet utopian, nonsense. we are risking the greatest republic on birth and i don't know why we are doing it. [applause] >> i think we are doing it because that is what america is about. it's about respecting people or different. >> we are supposed to be in the retention diversity and no doubt we have diversity. theodore roosevelt and wilson were terrified about diversity. it worked. the melting pot worked, k.?

now it's considered cultural genocide if you demand kids read american literature, have the english language. what holds us together? >> a country that welcomes people of different types. with all due respect. >> i want to say on the book, one of the tragedies of the culture war is that i think people who are well-intentioned end up causing great harm. i think flippantly part of living a democracy is being compassionate and considering the feelings of others. when i came to write this book i understood speaking on this issue so i try to write it in a very objective way and allow him to see for himself and allow people to see for themselves. i do want to add personally, i do want to add that i do agree and i agree with your vision of america far more. i come from britain. i think britain has more vibrant and it's more civilized than it

was. well, and i also want to say there is something about, i'm a catholic and a religious guide. muslims in britain, whatever people may think of them, they are very religious and they have strong families and they share many of my values and many of them are british people. british people are pretty -- nowadays and many are non-british by origin. i think the tragedy of the culture war is, and i will give one brief example of that. when andrew sullivan came out pat wrote a letter to him saying that pat's brother had died and he was there for him and he would be praying for him. some were very surprised because of the things you had said about homosexuality and about aids and speaks to the fact that you can disagree on the level of policy and principle but there is a

human concern and a human element there. >> this is one of the reasons and i am sure you are familiar with the human rights campaign. that is one of the groups that had to be taken off the air because they said buchanan's words, and you can check them on the statement, do great injury to today's transgendered people all over the world. i just don't believe my statement but what i did on the diane rehm show, she asked me about homosexuality and i said i believe the practice of homosexuality basically is unnatural and immoral and that is my view. now that is the view of the catholic church. the view i was raised within the few i believe and there were no questions about it. when you say that i'm sure it is hurtful to some people but what is the alternatives that we should be silent? this is why these divisions that come out of the 50s, i mean the 60s, they are irreconcilable and you can't

mean, if you to give up my views and say that's fine and marriage is fine and i believe that's fine. a lot of folks like me, they're whole social cultural revolutio% about it is gaining ground. irving crystal said i regret to tell pat buchanan and the culture war is over. there is a case that could be made for that but i don't know how, how you people come back together when there are disagreements are going. i've the list of 20 or 30 things in there that would causeqwq% mean, 1960, the canadyq%qw year, maybe they were golden years in a lot of ways but we were so much more united after the truman mccarthy era and before the 60s and i don't think we are ever going to get that back again and frankly if you read that book, there's a lot of people in there besides me who really believe this thing

bricks. they did give us the beatles. [laughter] >> how many more do you want tow take?q% >> hello. i am palestinian. i am a catholic. our family is part of the diversity of this country and have contributed to it. our family loves you and we enjoy seeing you everyday on "msnbc." i don't know why i don't see you any more. i agree with all of your points of view. she e-mails me every day and asks about you. we admire you and i wonder if you want to comment on the arab spring and to our discontent?

>> i was over in israel in 1967 during the six-day war and whoú÷ was that nice mayor of bethlehem that wasúñ christian?ú÷ú÷ú÷ a wonderful man.úñú=ú= is back in the 80's and i have forgotten his nameú÷ now.tñtñdm >> i'm not from there sotm i dot know.p-tñtñpñ >> the rising militancy, the islamists andpñ the muslims, th÷ christian population betweentñpñ egypt and iran, only 17 millionñ christians left and they aretñtñ going through a hellishtñtñ situation.tñt÷tñ there are religious differences anddñ you take what's happeningn ethiopia and egypt and the palestinian christianstñ andtñtñ others. this is what is goingt-tñ on in- world, but what was your othert- question? >> i wanted youtñtñ to comment t the arabtñ spring. >> i think that the people thatñ were you know, i mean, nixon

oncet÷ said, i gave him his speñ and he just read it.dñtñtñ he said buchanan for god sakestñ give some lift to your speech, get positive. i was just not the kind of speechwriter that was all graham and everything.t÷tñtñ a lot of friends werepñtñtm enthusiastic about the arab spring and i wastñtñ nervous frñ the beginning. i don't mean ip÷ have no grief ñ mubarak and hist÷t÷ regime and ñ sure they are brutal and all thñ rest and many of the people wetñ deal with over there but when hñ moved the things awaiting you get ridpñpñ of bizarre, it's no÷ necessarily the facebook twitter folks who come up andúñ build apñ society.tñtñpl .. dñt÷pñpñtñtñtñt÷p÷pñpñtñtñpñt-

>> again, but i forget in

new-line was talking to but 1967 i went to israel 10 days after the six-day war. nixon and i were the only two together. in the basement we met to general rabin. of strong accent and diane as a star i told vice president nixon, of all the people we met on this three week to were this was the most impressive man. he was tough and brutal palestinian. but he came to believe and

realize, we needed to state solution and. as a reputation of a tough soldier, he could push it through. then they murdered him. then barack in 2000 thinking the widow for it to. they didn't. the horse is out of the barn. maybe until it is settled and not peacefully. >> i am a liberal may be one of nine in america who would meyer you and learn from you [laughter] what have been to two buchananism the tea party

contains buchanan voters voters, all of those that appeal to the tea party, on foreign policy, ron paul has views that are akin to your ears. on the social issues candidates and lined up with you. but economic to do with dmade, industry, immigrationúmúñ , i don't hear are being considered. >> i think that mydm views ondll the loss of manufacturing, d-dmm they talkdldmdmdmdldñdld. dñout it but they don't knowd-dm

d÷at to dodm about it and nond.÷ border security, defense, idldlñ said we need a border fencedmdñl in california, from imperialdldl beach which they built up.dmd÷dñ dñat sounds like david duke.dñdñ no newt gingrich sows liked,d, pat buchanan.d,ú-dmdldñd, [laughter]dldñdldñ it is a little late.dldmdñd,dñd- on foreign policy i am notdmdñdm as libertarian but the coldd.d- war is over. we went into desert storm, of the bf, china has not done wars and theydñ'reúldm doing very well.ú< having a statement by aú< friend's quote.

>> fascinating. [laughter] the famous rivers of blood speech and immigration had a wonderful latin quote. i see the river flowing with blood talking about immigration and was fired and never seen again. he is brilliant and a great soldier speaks all kinds of languages. we have some of the issues but it is late in the day. we were beat twice. the last time i don't even want to discuss. [laughter] >> hello.

i had two professors 11 at george washington who corrected me when i used -- use the term isolationism they said use not interventionist in the future. now i a agree with them. you are one of the editors of the american conservative and one gentlemen contributes. i blake to see if you see a future of the non interventionism and since politically you were different with other aspects, is there a possibility to have more and save money by doing so? >> he is apñ good man andpñúñúññ opposed the iraq war.úmpñú÷úñpññ

up he lost a son is in iraq.úñpm and is very bitter.pñúmúm i should not say that but hepmúl writes with passionúñ and fireúñ the video conservatives whoúñúm got us into the war.úñúñúñpñúñ those new conservatives they are better at in terms ofpñúñpmñ networking, recruiting, movipñúñpñúñúmpñúñúñ ng into the organization.pmpñúññ much of us are too individualistic. we do not do that well. the americans do not want to pay other countries bills, fight their wars, they have a bad taste in their mouth from afghanistan and iraq.pñúñpmpñpññ i fear the drive from syriaúñúm

and there is a drive withúñpm iran.úmúmpmúm but it would be devastatingúñúmñ pñm don't see as generalpñúñpmpm petraeus said how does thispñpññ end?úlúñpñúm and why do we failed?pmpmpmúmpm- we had the country with usúmú÷úñ but i will tell you thisúñpñúñp÷ broke as soon as the firstúmú=úm bombs start falling 90% ofpñ thepm country supports this -- supports the president to denounce us we now have a hard sing chance with the israelis counter assassinations killing the pmraeli diplomats.p÷úmúmplúñ i don't think the iraniansúmpñpñ are theúñ president once warú÷pm or their joint chiefs but ipñúmm can understand why thepñúñúmpmúñ

israelis wanted to mid isúmúñ the greatest enemy netanyahup÷úm andpm lieberman and theúñúmúñpñm heather's and i canúñúñúmpñpñúmm understand it they knew itúñúñpm american power comes inúmúñpñúmñ behind them they win the four of the west. >> we did take two yearsúmúñúñ to do that. [laughter] i forgot. [laughter] and. >> very quickly summing up the culture of pat buchanan i went into a shop. nds me when i was doing i said i was here to write about pat buchanan and said

he is dreadful, up appalling, i hate everything about him, then he said to know the worst thing? i said what pretty said my dad voted for him. [laughter] [applause]

>> on your screen at the national press club author night we have an coulter who just did three hours "in-depth" on booktv.

your most recent book demonic, for the first time ever you are wearing a white dress? [laughter] >> we wanted to shake things up. my stock to the black dress. we take photos sometimes it was green but the design people, the arch people said it looks better in black. they would often recover the dress i was in favor because the in the black cocktail dress drove the liberals mad and i enjoyed that. >> host: your most recent demonic has been out about seven months. [inaudible] >> host: are you working on another book? >> no no.

this took a lot of work for our new about the french revolution but not of what about it. so much research so little talking to other humans. it will be at least one year. you need time to think of the next theme but i am tired. [laughter] the book tour ended up being fund. are usually hates the first two weeks because by publicist makes me get up early. but then i outsmart hurt by going to california. she will not get me up at 4:00 in the morning. >> host: what is demonic about in two sentences? >> the mob mentality with some of liberalism french revolutioner