programs online at booktv.org. booktv attended a book party of the publication of "shooting from the lip" written by senator al simpson's chief of staff donald hardy. among those in presence, supreme court justice clarence thomas. this is about 45 minutes. >> well -- >> hi. we're coming to you. >> ideal it, what are you doing here? >> well, we're here to celebrate your book. >> ann, hi. [inaudible conversations] >> you're very dear to do this.

it's not my book. it's the most heartbreaking -- have you met don, the author? >> you could still write one. >> oh, man. took him six years. >> after he'd done it -- >> jim billington's here. so is justice thomas. [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> senator, how are you doing? >> jimmy -- [inaudible conversations] >> haven't got my good shoes on, but i'm here. >> where'd you come from? >> new york. it was a big delay. i spoke monday -- [inaudible conversations] anyway, you're dear to do this. >> no, listen -- [inaudible conversations] >> you look great. harry called and said, now, you

picked up a little extra down there, did we get our 20%? but jesus -- [inaudible conversations] >> there's ann. >> hello, ann. >> has my wife arrived yet? >> i don't believe so. >> pretty good to be immortalized in your own lifetime. >> immortal rised? >> can i say hi? my name is don hardy. >> he's the author of the book. [inaudible conversations] >> so modest. >> oh, oh. >> troublemaker in town. >> hi! >> ginni, how are you? >> wrote a book about you, huh? what has it got to be, eight volumes? >> "shooting from the lip." [laughter] >> i'm so glad. >> you didn't even object to that, did you? >> no. what can i do? i didn't write the book, i don't

get any money. you know ann. annie? ginni, you know ginni. ginni thomas, clarence. you know jim billington, of course? >> this is just a great party. >> jim, jimmy? meet clarence thomas. how dear of you -- [inaudible conversations] >> oh, elizabeth, you're dear to come. how day -- dear of you to come. >> ah, bless you. i love it. and bob would be here, you know, the crowds are a little bit hard. >> he doesn't want any part of this. [inaudible conversations] >> anyway, we loved your christmas card. you didn't have to do that to wyoming, go over to nebraska, go to laramie -- >> you know, we were, we made it

to deadwood. >> did you go to the wyoming game at larmy? >> no. did you go over? >> no, i didn't get down to it either. okay. what are we doing? [inaudible conversations] okay, here we go. call the cops. >> great, thank you. >> this is bizarre. [inaudible conversations] >> oh, annie. this is more fun than -- [inaudible conversations] >> how you doing? >> bill, you -- ornery -- you're the doctor, aren't you? [inaudible conversations] hey,ny that. >> how are you?

>> god in hen help me, i'm 80. did you see ann think? she's here. >> david said to me -- >> you -- [inaudible conversations] >> he'll never forget when you took me -- >> that was fun. we were definitely the hit. >> you never told me, you said i didn't know. >> i didn't know. i didn't. >> you didn't? >> no. >> i didn't know that. >> no, i didn't -- no. >> i've got to find ann, she'll want to see you. oh, there she is. right there, that beautiful -- she's talking to elizabeth dole. that's that white-haired lady with the gray jacket. how about your dad?

>> he's 101, still trucking. >> tell him al abrams says hello. i worked for him in the '80s. >> i know. [laughter] >> al -- [inaudible conversations] >> hello, hello! >> he was claiming he was -- [inaudible conversations] >> no, no, no. >> al abrams? well, you tell al, tell al, give him the usual greeting, you ornery old -- >> i will, i'll do it just for you. >> thank you for coming by. this is madness. who was that? who was that? some phantom, i don't know. >> you have a longstanding relationship with -- >> was that norm m irk neta? >> long relationship. >> yeah. >> anyway, i don't know. [inaudible conversations] >> starting out minimally --

[inaudible conversations] yeah, i've got all my arguments, i've got people worried about this now. they don't want to raise taxes because grover says no. >> i say, look, when coburn takes off -- [inaudible conversations] he calls it ludicrous, tom did, and i call it deceptive. >> yeah. tom's helping on this. >> oh, he -- yeah. >> i'm gaining ground. >> pick up a vote or two. [laughter] ann is in there. >> oh, she's in there? >> sam donaldson said he would. [inaudible conversations] >> i didn't write this book.

i don't get any money out of this, i didn't write the book. no! the money all goes to the author. i don't get any. no, it's true. >> thank you. >> you're very welcome. >> [inaudible] >> senator, i used to work with michael saunders in senator thurmond's office back in the '80s. and this is my husband -- >> how are yousome. >> and we are big fans of yours. >> i needed them in my line of work. >> oh, well you're a sweetheart. so nice to see you finish. >> well, i didn't write it, but it's a good book. [laughter] >> well, i hope we can get you to sign it -- >> oh, i will. i'll personalize it. >> we are getting one for his mom and dad. thank you, senator. it's great to see you. >> it'll just tear their heart out. >> oh. [laughter] >> just tears will stream down -- >> you haven't changed a bit.

>> travis jordan, it's been a couple of years, i was a -- [inaudible] class of 2006. >> oh. >> hey, yeah, there we go. >> wear the american flag. i can do that -- >> i know, right? >> i'm working for senator enzi still, and he had written me a couple of letters of relation, appreciate all the support. >> well, mike was a terrific guy. i told him when i saw him i don't know if he ever went into politics, but he'll get in. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> he still tells that story. >> oh, good, good. [inaudible conversations] i'll personalize it. >> hi, dave -- [inaudible] how are you? >> how are you? >> i was the press secretary on the house side, and i got there

in 988. my -- 1988. my boss gave me -- >> bill's doing great. >> he gave me a list, and he said if you want to know how i think, here's who you pay attention to, and yours was the first name. he only had a few names -- >> [inaudible] >> he was chairman of the board of -- [inaudible conversations] he was there for eight years. i just had dinner with him about six weeks ago, he's doing great. >> he's not doing -- [inaudible] >> he says eight years was enough. but he still has a home there. >> they're very dear people. [inaudible conversations] >> it's really a pleasure meeting you. >> i didn't write this book, but it's good. >> i'm still here, your bodyguard, baby. >> here we go. [laughter] who is that over there? the bodyguard. >> my editors have told me that -- >> anything you wish. >> who are you going to support for the republican nomination? [laughter] >> i've watched our party, i'm

80 years old, and i voted for ike when i was 21. all i can tell you is the republicans have a beautiful ability to give each other the saliva test, and then they lose, and they bitch for four years. >> i gotta remember that. [laughter] >> that's what they do. but they don't miss -- they bitch, they say how did we get this, and they say, well, 20% of you voted for ross perot, you jerk. [laughter] >> okay, now, you haven't answered my question. >> no, i'm not going to. >> you see, i told you he wasn't going to answer. >> i would have to say i just wrote a check yesterday to romney. >> oh, you did? >> yeah. >> for how much? >> it was for a thousand bucks. i could have done more, but i haven't earned enough money, and i don't get anything from this book. >> he's hoping to get sales from the book. >> i just waited because i've effectively pissed off everyone in america with the co-chairmanship of this commission which is a very bad thing to do. and we know we've succeeded so

far because we have pissed off everyone in america. and erskine and i go all over this country, spoken to about 500,000 people. we don't do bullshit or mud, and we get a standing ovation. people are thirsting, thirsting for somebody to tell them what a trillion bucks is -- >> what? >> a trillion bucks is. and then how you stabilize social security. >> yes. >> not good and old seniors, how do you do something, medicare which is eating a hole through -- call it obamacare, call it elvis presleycare, it can't work. anyway, keeper rating them. >> how are you? [inaudible conversations] >> who are these people? >> i know, i know. >> all your fans. >> i tell you, it is bizarre. and i didn't, i don't get a

nickel off this book. >> oh, shoot. >> well, you have to change that. second printing. >> it wouldn't matter. i didn't write it. don hardy, the author, is here. >> oh, wonderful. okay. [inaudible conversations] >> i read it as a proofreader first, and then i read it as a reader, and reading it as a reader -- >> it's a lot more fun. >> yeah. oh, can't wait to read it. >> scribble all over -- >> no, wonderful. will we see -- [inaudible conversations] >> yes. >> betsy, you didn't -- >> are you kidding? >> you didn't have to do this. oh, get in here. >> get in here, deborah. >> ann's in that room in here. oh, you're so dear to come to this. >> he loves you. >> i'd kiss him on his head. >> are you kidding me? this man loves you.

>> we would not be elsewhere. we love you. >> here's a great guy. and dingell and i used to -- i was going to say, we used to do a hell of a lot of business. >> boy, did we ever. >> i really miss you, alan. >> i miss you too. >> he doesn't want to go to anything, and he saw that and he goes, deborah, i have to go to an event. >> alfalfa working my way up, but i didn't get there, but ann is here. there she is right over there. >> we'll go see her. >> a lot of people voted for her, john. [inaudible conversations] >> how you been doing? >> i am doing so well, i just can't stand myself. i have everything. well, almost everything, senator. [laughter] >> with go ahead, tell c-span. [laughter] >> by the way, you may forget, but you arranged for kate, my wife and i, to get married in the howard baker room. >> i -- [inaudible conversations] everything working well? >> well, we're still together.

>> it is the most fabulous -- >> nothing like it. >> fabulous. anyway, good to see you, friend. thank you. >> it is true -- how are you? [inaudible conversations] are you still doing your stuff? >> i'm doing it, i'm get anything as much trouble as i can. >> who are you with now? >> i am freelancing, i'm working on my own book. >> what are you writing about, spooks? >> my dad. >> he's still living? >> no, he died at 100. so the last time i saw you was at church down the street. >> i was at st. john's. [inaudible conversations] ann is over there. oh! >> you're related to -- >> who is this man? >> i am in the presence of

royalty. >> i know who it is, it's david -- >> ah! >> it's david brinkley come back from the dead. >> how much are they? >> i don't know, i didn't write it. i don't get any money. >> you didn't write it? >> no. >> what the hell are we doing here? >> don hardy. >> hello, don. >> probably want to go to the brown palace. >> i remember. i just said that to -- [inaudible conversations] >> hey, don? >> annie, right here. it's sam and jan. you want to get a picture? there she is. >> oh. aisle here because of you.

>> everybody look right here. >> right here, please. [inaudible conversations] >> jeff to do anything. >> raise the taxes and raise revenue -- >> no, we know what you make, and we're going to -- [inaudible conversations] >> that is long history. >> don and becky, and they spent six years on this baby. >> six -- i'm surprised they finished it in such a quick time. the way you are, you old coot. >> you also fart. go ahead, tell c-span whatever -- [laughter] >> linda -- these are pals of

mine. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> how are you? stick around. >> well, we wanted to, but i told them that i wanted you to write something more in them. >> i've got them all stacked up so i can go down and really deal with them, and can then i'll -- i'll be here tomorrow, we're doing five different things. [inaudible conversations] books will receive my personal attention. i can do it tomorrow sometime or tonight later, something. but stack them all up. betty jane -- buffalo bill's granddaughter, great granddaughter. i mean, george -- [inaudible conversations] >> linda, my child. and you, you --

[inaudible conversations] how good of you to come. >> well, i really asked your wife to sign the book because i said i bet she did most of it. >> the books that -- i'm going to tomorrow between all my -- [inaudible conversations] i didn't write it. >> oh, that's right, i forgot about that. >> oh, it's about you. hell. >> well, i didn't write it, but -- [inaudible conversations] anyway, anyway, i want to add some special notes to this. >> does that mean we'll ever get it back? >> look, you'll get -- is that my hairpiece? [laughter] >> the one you lost 45 years ago. >> anyway, john dingell, he doesn't go to anything. i love the guy. they caught me kissing him on the head.

[inaudible conversations] >> a lot of us wouldn't come out -- [inaudible conversations] >> i'll even hide the book. everybody will think i'm fiddling around with your fanny here. [laughter] >> the elevator, asked the desk clerk, he said, don't you mean goosed? i said, do you think i don't know how to count? [laughter] oh, how are you? >> i'm good. >> good to see you. how have you been? >> i've been well. how about you? >> here i am. >> you all look wonderful. [inaudible conversations] >> how are you? >> good to see you. >> remember the night we were at -- >> oh, yeah.

[laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> are you sure, was that all he wants? [laughter] >> we'll get to you in a minute. >> bob and judy worcester. >> to who? >> bob and judy worcester. best wishes. that's it. that's all i want. that's for bob moss' friend. he loves you. [inaudible conversations] >> i gotta get a picture. ann, can i get a picture -- >> i though you know how to -- [inaudible] it's one of those roaming errors. it's a brand new thing.

[inaudible conversations] okay, get in here. don hardy. get don -- here we go. this was one of my students. >> yeah. can i get one with -- >> this is one of my finest students. [laughter] he is of the other faith. >> i'm with mr. whitehouse now. [inaudible conversations] i did. [inaudible conversations] >> you're pissed off. [laughter] i worked with you -- >> that sounds like a good start. >> oh! you ornery bastard. >> is this your daughter? >> it's me! >> my daughter's not here. i did, i --

[inaudible conversations] >> oh, wow. >> yeah, he was a democrat. >> you were a tiny boy, right? >> his mother was judge alice -- [inaudible] >> oh, wow. >> 13 children. nine boys, four girls, and the first one out was the best one there. [laughter] >> oh, that's a great -- >> here's the author. this is the author. >> oh, i wish i could have been your author. >> what's going on here? you used to take the -- >> he wrote the book. [inaudible conversations] >> oh, my, look at this, look at this. we're all here! >> and you remember my wife sarah, right? >> sarah, how are you? >> nice to see you. >> good to see you all. >> [inaudible] sends his regards. >> i can't help you.

i don't do that kind of stuff. [laughter] >> how are you doing? >> haven't got me yet. [laughter] just pissing people off all over the country. >> you know, we were together at treasury, so we get together every once in a while and trade house stories. >> and he was one of my students -- >> oh, really in. >> and then he took the other -- [inaudible conversations] the guy on the radio who gets in the accident, rush limbaugh? [laughter] >> they don't know your voice. tell them -- [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> wow, there could be a couple. >> we enjoyed your christmas card. you must be rambling the earth

out west. >> we're actually coming again, we're coming to yellowstone around july 4th. >> well, let us know because -- give us notice. >> with okay. >> a lot of people come. sometimes i look at the driveway, and then i go into the basement. [laughter] and the doorbell rings, is anybody in there? i've done that. [laughter] >> no, i believe it. >> i have a heater and a tent in the garage, and i'd go out and start leading this into the car and say ann and i are just heading into the park. well, we're so sorry. [laughter] so if you see me do that -- >> then we know. >> my father, bob -- [inaudible] he was attorney general in arizona. [inaudible conversations] big law and order guy, loves

you. past president of the nra. we can't wait to read your book. [inaudible conversations] >> thank you for all your work these past few years. we need people like you -- [inaudible conversations] >> nice to have fan. i needed them. >> oh, no, no, no. thank you. it's great to see you. thank you. >> sure. well, you'd like to get out of here, wouldn't you? are you having a little belt? >> you're not serving cheap wine tonight. >> who is? who bought it? >> i don't know. [inaudible conversations] the sponsor. >> i'm telling you -- [inaudible conversations]

>> he's here. well, we, we ran the same year. let's get it going. >> [inaudible] >> i don't get anything for it. >> how are you? [applause] >> good evening, everyone. i didn't hear you. hi, everyone, i'm tammy haddad, and i'm thrilled to welcome you to this special evening for a very dear friend of all of ours, and we're here at this fabulous hoe hell, the jefferson, and i'd like to introduce you to peter grossman who is one of our co-hosts. connie millstein is not here tonight. peter, will you come and say hello? [applause] >> thank you. just very briefly on behalf of connie and the jefferson -- wow, i hope that's better. we're absolutely thrilled to be hosting senator simpson and his former chief of staff and biographer, donald hardy, this

evening. we're excited to hear from both of them about the book, "shooting from the lip," which i guess is fitting. [laughter] connie was also very proud last year to host a dinner on behalf of the commission and then to further support be it in its efforts, as i think everybody knows, on the deficit reduction. not sure that anybody really listened after they got done -- [laughter] but at least they put in the effort. that's apolitical, by the way. [laughter] so, um, in this a different -- in addition, connie noted that it was no surprise to her at the time that based on senator simpson's record in the senate and his bipartisanship work that he would be chosen to be a co-chair of that commission. and, um, lastly, i just want to say that, you know, as we understand mr. hardy had full access to senator simple soften's records -- simpson's records, diaries, volumes, full

access -- [laughter] and i will say that's, the senator did mention he's been married 57 years, so anybody that gives full access after 57 years, i think that's pretty impressive. [laughter] connie really just wanted to welcome everybody and say we're thrilled to be sponsoring this. [applause] >> now i have the pleasure of introducing what i call the bravest man in the world, don hardy, the author of the book. i don't know how you could possibly put all of this in one book and decide what to leave in and what to take out. just as someone who's had senator simpson on msnbc, cnn and fox, you have changed the conversation about politics, about culture, about what's important in our country. and don had to put that all in how many pages? >> 360. >> 460. >> so, ladies and gentlemen, don hardy. [applause]

>> wow. what a treat this is. thank you. um, al told me if i ever got in front of a crowd like this instead of standing in the shadows like i normally to that i should be very careful what i say because he said one day you're the toast of the town, and the next day you're just toast. [laughter] so thank you all. thank you, peter and tammy and can't levinson is an amazing guy. he put this -- i met kent, and he met with lane bailey and holly paige at the column. i met him 80 years ago in china. he was a great guy then, he's a great guy now. if it hadn't been for him, we wouldn't be here tonight. ..

the phone connected for some reason it rang and it was allison said. he said you guys want to write the story of my life. would you like to take a shot at it? [laughter] i settled on a sec second and have been a problem getting the cork out good but i did and i said why would i do that? us that that's the story of everything in my life. everything. the personal letter service in the numbers. it was all dared. and especially the diaries. 6000 pages worth of diaries. in 18 binders and people like david mccullough said the resent these are valuable if they were

put down but these things as they come. i was at the white house talking to gorbachev. he took notes and they ended up being 2.4 million. last night so we set sail for the united states and al says how long is this going to take? i said about a year. i was than 2005. [laughter] for something that's really important i said people know you've been my friend for half a century. they're going to expect and it's very important that she not think that after you read it. so instead you know, it's going to be important that i tell them that being said the failures and balance along with all the success is.

and al said look, you just do the right thing by telling the truth. he said hair, ipo since the land on the floor as a result of telling the truth about me, so be it. [laughter] i also said that it have to have editorial control. if you read anything in this book, people will think it a codpiece and also you can't have any money. [laughter] and so, i hope the contract at the university of oklahoma press. so alice had come to say which you want, but make it. so i did the first three pages were to push a flaming car off a cliff and burn down the house and mailboxes to to and on federal probation. another reason that is important

is that -- it is important. [laughter] because this is not a story about poet ticks. have to you've probably written books about politics. the bill goes here, dare, past, doesn't get past, whatever. this is about humanity, this is a story about a person who is -- put citizenship, and ahead of partisanship in that site was important to tell the story and it goes back to the days in which the republicans and democrats spoke to each other, respect each other and it does in this happen this happen as much anymore, but for example,àa la samsung was a great friend to ted kennedy and they spoke very late into his life and people didn't know that they didn't understand that in bygone men especially.

[laughter] silly little story i have to tell you that kind of demonstrates days in which there is friendship because either one of the guys could get back into the same exact story. it involves a meeting in wyoming. where people come in and raise their hands if they are upset. and this meeting is going on and in the door comes ted kennedy. people can't believe it. in the back says what is this guy doing in wyoming? and i think i stand up and says that ted kennedy is here in wyoming. that guy is a horse's. since then jumps up, ratcheted back of the room and throws them into a snow bank. and when it comes that can come a kennedy says him, heavens, that was magnificent, al. i had no idea this was kennedy country. [laughter] and outlook.m.

[laughter] senator alfredsson. [applause] >> i have to prepare here. several people have come up to me and say al, let me tell you a story. i said go ahead, i'm wired. both save it for later. i started to run the stream, there's some wonderful people you're not going to do that. haven't had a drink. i will do the later, but i have to say don hardy took the silver and what he forgot to say was when he was 17, he borrowed a car. i think it was a rental from western chevrolet enter it to seattle. it was not a rental.

it was called stolen. and he came to me and said i've heard during mass. what about me i said you're a mess, so come on in here. i said you're very salvageable human being. [laughter] so we were linked at the hip way back there. and that's a true story. but he's done a beautiful job. it's a great book. i read it as a proofreader or three times saying i've been admitted as a reader and then i had a lump in my throat and it lasts throughout. it is such a beautiful book and i love it. things could have been left out. [laughter] i mean, today i slept at cop. and laramie. ann is here.

i said i need $300 bill. she's in the clink she said look, i'm working my way through school. she said just stay there. and i thought i need to marry her. [laughter] saving myself for the primrose path. i'm a minister is another great and dear friend, dick cheney and lynn cheney. and then i will tell you that dick cheney's experiences, especially at the university of wyoming, which would make mine pale. now, i tell you. we ran together in 1978 he ran for the congress, i ran for the senate and lynn and and i have written every time in either of us ever lost an election. so after tribute to you -- and then that is standing right next to him as this little rascal and that behind her employer. he was in a japanese war

relocation center in the heart mountain, wyoming as a 12-year-old boy and i scoutmasters said we are going to go to heart not in and meet the boy scouts. i tell you, nobody wanted to go. why are all it. guard towers, machine guns that was one of those that the 10 relocation centers. guido scoutmaster. he said the zeitgeist just like us. they are boy scouts. i ran into this guy from san jose. he was a smart aleck, just like i was. and we had a bully. he picked that mass so we just dug little trench right choices cabman. and during the night it rained like and he ruined his tent, pulled it out. he said i laughed more than he did. that's a friendship.

but when i read he was mayor -- i wrote him a set command of a fat kid from coding they started to correspond and serve together in the board of regents for the smithsonian. so these are great memories. but that goes back 40 some years. i could go back to nina totenberg coziness chamber. she and i have some spirited words. [laughter] and i tell you, she and dave when i was at harvard we have the most wonderful times together. her father is still playing virtual server via lan and we had a lot of fun. and if you can't forgive a person it's like letting them live in your head. that's not a funny statement. if you can't forgive a person, it's like letting them live in your head referee. i mean, you are in the shower thinking that some of the and he is out golfing. [laughter]

so what do you gain from that? and then of course billington is lurking over here. i can't go through all this. clarence thomas is here. boy, the amazing things you go through. boy, the amazing things you go through. i had met her. i say to people, why don't you move on? what is the purpose of keeping tab, seething. are they see there is the seekers. i prefer the seekers. anyway, willington tenants up for library of congress. there's another guy up there, a real wizard and making stuff like that guy. so i'm sad wrong, i really love the guy. i'm in his diary live. i'll tell you. they said they think you want to think of this guy. why would that be? i said he hates commies. [laughter] and i said not only that, he

knows ration fluently. he can tell just exactly when does our same. he said really? three days later he was in the library of congress. john dingell -- tni -- i know, but i can't stop. but we used amidon conference committees and he would say, look, we are going to get this done. and i said, before the 10 years is over an inning to guy. he said when she do something with the staff of that committee and senate. i said i can't come that they are tougher than i am. and then we got together and eat them to bits. and chuck robb and i were on the iraq study group. it is important. what the is happening.

we are compromise that meets your went. that's madness. you can't do it. injuries bruce reid, the executive director commissioned cochaired by her skin and i idaho. i don't know how he got into that. i'm not going to go any further. i see corey logan is lurking over there. one of my students at harvard. not and has clear characters three times and then if you have heard it, but i have heard it. [laughter] i want to say we are going to stick around because the test of an event like if i go out. i said how's the wine? better than anything you ever bought. and so, as i finish i'll be having one. but look, there is some name if you have a boat and i just don't want to scribble my name. you can get those out there. if you have a book and you want

me to do personalization, just leave it, put a slip of paper and eventually get them back or they'll be here in washington. my dear pal, chief of staff. where is the? anyway, my can't really he was the finest staffer i've ever known. he'll wear your crown in heaven. certainly not here. [laughter] this is like the picture of dorian gray. i am falling apart in this picture is eternal. dorian gray was the action. he ended up in a pile of towels, the cadaver schmitz, but that is a beautiful thing. anyway, annie and i come that you think that we do these

things is just wonder one reason. this wonderful guy right here and i have never received a penny. [applause] thank you for coming. stick around. the lack

>> you've written about the obama's. the administration has a guest disagreed. they've come out with some comments about you. what is like to be viewed as a political firefight. not used to beat them and they love it and what do you make of what is happening quite >> well, it is a little strange because the book -- you know, i've been covering the apartments for five years than it really started with a serious reader of the paper called the long run. it's about trying to capture the lives of the candidates. especially because candidates are so good. it's so hard to get access to them. one of the ways we learn to that

is through their biographies. we delve into the past and characters and look at the whole person. and so this look is an outgrowth of those stories which have been doing for years and years. so the goal of this book was to really write about what i would call the big change. when i started covering barack and michelle obama, they really were barack and michelle and the extraordinary thing that i was watching hot it was watching news to regular people become president and first lady of the united states. what ever seen a bus in a process that happened on inoculation day when somebody takes them out, but it's a huge learning curve made all the more germanic in the obama story because of their freshness to national political life and also because of the fact that there the first african-american president and first lady. so we really see a couple things happening. two people learning to take

their partnership which is to be private and turn it into a white house partnership. we see michelle obama have a really tough landing and the white house and then actually turn it around. and then the third day of the book is really about is the most fascinating read that i find about barack obama which is his struggle with politics. after all these years i still can't get over the fact that the top politician in the country as a really complicated relationship with the business that event. so anyway worked on this book for two years and i published it. the white house cooperated. i've been working with these folks for years. lots of people in the obama and her circle gave me interviews. they know exactly what they were getting into. they never misrepresent what i was doing. and also i fact checked the, was insistent for publication to publish an excerpt in the times on saturday and then a really --

i guess two really interesting things happened. the first thing if people started discussing the book without having read the book of knots never happened to me before because of the newspaper to separate the easier newspaper. the other thing is the white house pushed back in interesting ways. they hadn't really challenged the report in the look. like i have not a phone call from david axelrod saying you got it all wrong, but something that really surprised me happen yesterday was that michelle obama went on tv and said -- i'm paraphrasing, i'm really tired of depictions of myself as an angry black woman. and she also protested a portrayal of her writing directly with rahm emanuel. so that was kind of fascinating to me because the book definitely does not portray her

in any stereotypical way. also i'm very clear to mention that the clashes between her and emmanuel were really philosophical philosophical in nature. you shouldn't undercut you report them and talk about their differences in approach as really what they wear. she did acknowledge that she didn't read the book, so i have to imagine that she is responding baby at the coverage of the book instead of the book itself, but part of the reason i'm excited to be here tonight is to check about the actual data with the u. >> let's go to that political thing because that's one of the themes running through the book. when theodore roosevelt ran, everyone around him said you don't want to do politics. that's beneath people like this. what are the qualms about politics the apartments have quite >> part of the reason i think the qualms are important and not to be dismissed if they are similar to the qualms that a lot

of us have about politics, right? we all see what is wrong with the political system, what is ugly about it, whether it can really address social needs and what not. but you know, this is one of the many things about obama that was such a big asset in the campaign that ends up being somewhat inhibiting and the presidency time and time again in my reporting can be sometimes the simple way and sometimes very complicated ways. i found it trouble acting like a politician. a small store in the book is about the super bowl party in the white house. you know, he's kind to everybody, greets everybody, but he doesn't want to walk the room. he's got this principled objection. he doesn't want to be the guy is spending the entire super bowl schmoozing and he asked this idea that he wants to still hang onto a normal life in the presidency. so in my reporting i just

watched that idea get tested again and again and again. >> there's another story in the book where he insists on having dinner where he can't schmooze with other power brokers and that the natural of faith have not wanted to be captured. is that a theme? >> certainly part of the situation and not only does he have executive of national security or economic experience but he's never lived in the same house as his family full-time and that is the white house, which is not in any way, shape or form. but you know, i think the 630 cockrell and is willing to miss dinner with his family for

important situations and willing to mr. tonight so we. i find my reporting that the obama's are constantly seeking ways to kind of limit and protect themselves from political life. >> so why do you think he ran at these ambivalent about politics? >> i think it was a rash decision and i think it was a hard decision. you know, his aides say that this summer of 2006 he was still really dismissive of it and they began to start a good decision making process only went from thousand six datafile in the people kept telling him is your time is now geared if you miss this window of opportunity come you may never get it again. part of the drama of the situation is michelle obama is initially very opposed because of family issues, but in part because she's worried about attacks from the prison and

withstanding attacks and she thinks a couple years may benefit him. embassies and later chief of staff said to me is the decision decided to really wait on her. i find her situation so dramatic because the way people describe is she really did feel for her husband would be an exceptional president and yet she really wasn't sure if it was the best thing for her family. so how do you choose between what you think might be good for the country and what might be good for you? >> mitch daniels didn't run for president because his wife had veto power. do you think they have these discussions and arguments back and forth? >> yeah, the president and first lady have talked about it. that is the white house is on this occurred there. i spent a lot of time to actually link to that stared at the structure is like that, not life.

and i will admit that it's fine to report having read and there's a little bit of exploratory pleasure in getting inside the house. but i think they're also two very substantive things about it. and that is the media argument that the book, which is that the complaints and isolation of the president be has two effects on our system. one is that it really them is the number of people who are willing to run for office along with all the other fact is they do. at the number people willing to go through presidential campaign and then that this incredibly restrict his life is pretty -- it is pretty small. and the other thing is we consistently see these presidents get cut off in the white house and they all say it's not going to happen to them and it happens to all of them. >> michelle obama is one of the first -- certainly the youngest

person to have served in first lady since the revolution. but she because of our generation have a more difficult time another first lady's been sick a federal offense to reword? >> well, it is funny because so she's such a people of hillary clinton cannot wait. in my reporting i found again and again that she and everybody else in the white house had one eye on hillary clinton's situation. and also the attack she went through that she does eight campaign were really pretty painful for her and everybody around her and to watch yourself character that way was really, really hard. you know, they twist i think to it though but the traditional nature and that protecting her a

little bit because political life is so scattered us in so typical. but it's another way of limiting. it's another way of saying i don't do policy. i do have to be part of this discussion. i'm not going to get engaged in these kinds of debates. i think there's something very protective about the traditionalism of that role. now of course is putting a much more prominent role in the presidential message what she wanted in the first place. there are these moments and moments of real vulnerability. there's one episode you describe where she is wearing normal shores to go to the grand canyon and drop them in the post made fun of them saying she wondered if she's leading the team down. how do you weigh the balance of vulnerability and fierceness that alternate in the book?

>> a vast part of what i think is so fascinating, a part of the reason i think -- let's just vanished the phrase angry black woman from a culture that not only her, the part of the reason that caricature is so wrong if it misses the vulnerability and it misses the anxiety. and that's the words her aides he they don't call her angry. they call her anxious. the port in my where i found her really fuming this after the jury. so scott brown the republican wins 10 kennedy's senate seat. this has devastating consequences for the president's legislative agenda. it's all in jeopardy now. you know, she has two issues at their husbands team. one day she doesn't understand