right above and outside the vehicle in the right were hatch was my squad leader who had the headphones on, do i contact you, who i mention i was talking to earlier. he passed out in the left who are hatch with the 240 gunner, which he too 40s a big 7.60 machine gun that can definitely cause some distraction. he actually received some shrapnel in his face, but was returned to duty that same day. and those were the only other two soldiers that were injured. and i asked others because that day is a bit fuzzy in my mind, just because of the concussion i received an injury that occurred, there were several iraqis civilians that were very seriously injured and i unfortunately don't know what happened to them and unfortunately, when a bomb goes off like that, there are no real known remedies to who will get hurt and who will not end that

is again one of the scariest of having a car bomb go off is you have to have a nonchalant attitude if i hit civilians, i'm fine with it. if they hate americans or international forces or iraqi forces, their consideration is better. but those were the only people i believe were injured that day. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so ..

>> they all are dissatisfied with the system and the two parties.

i have been covering politics along time but i wanted to gatt act was jabbar these voters looking for? what do they care about? how can we fix things? nobody can say the system has not become dysfunctional. so to determine the outcome of every election the swing voters but not having a say where politics and government is run. beginning the book with thomas paine but common-sense the book that

with the views of the revolution was the call for a democratic republic to be governed by the people. we need to return to that. we're not there. i hope to live a fire to get them motivated. >> host: why should we be worried about this? >> guest: our system its is undemocratic and then number of ways like the clothes primary. half of the states, 40% cannot participate and the primary. they have no say on who gets nominated. and they have more and more extreme candidates who were

nominated by a party activist. coupled with the way congressional districts are drawn. the metal is totally disappearing. and able to cut deals that is why congress has a 9% approval rating. >> host: is that a fair reading? >> i think you are right. i will say that i set out to blame both sides equally. i felt both parties moved to the extreme ignoring the center.

but in reporting the book the past two years, the tea party was rising during that time to make its voice heard. you had spectacular and prominent primary elections in 2010. in delaware my castle was challenged by a questionable candidate. mike castle a congressmen for many years, very popular, a centrist. it and a mostly tea party people say i don't care if mike castle loses we don't want him in congress. the cleansing of the centrist republicans they called them rinos.

republican in name only. when you have lisa murkowski was challenged an engine demint miss it swifter to raise money against her for the tea party candidate. she lost that primary and said forget this and ran as a write-in candidate and one. with a 50% are registered as independents. and has been more of a cleansing. i think the republicans have moved away but the birth control talk when 98% of all women who use birth control, i think this is a social right wing effort to inject religion into the public sphere but

independent voters don't like it they think the economy is the big problem or the deficit there are other issues but to whether it gave people should get married or abortion is a private choice. on the democratic side they had their big swing to the left with george mcgovern and they had the realignment. bill clinton was more of a centrist president. but he was the last standard bearer before barack obama. i do think is tough for the centrist democrats but tougher to tell them to sit in the corner. that is my read.

the moderate to conservative democrat from arkansas was challenged by unions have lost her primary. but for the most part, i do think republicans have much more of a litmus test. >> host: why is that? ideological? psychological? disciplined, attitude toward political power? >> that is a good question. it has been a strategy they feel works for them to coalesce and energize their base. republican party has to come, quoting tom davis to say the same thing in has become a party of older white males southern voters.

they are not a party especially with birth control the genetic feel to minorities. the hispanic vote is rapidly growing and a very important swing votes. with their behavior they could kiss that vote to goodbye even if they pick somebody like marco rubio to be the vice presidential candidate. >> host: even if they do? >> they could win some votes but people are very upset with their rhetoric on immigration and the southwest and the southwestern states. the hispanic population is topping 50%. this is not a trivial voting

block out all. i just think it's played into the debate but to think it is a mistake of them want to be a majority national party. >> talk about the structure and the work of the book. describe how you organize the book and the work you did to put it together. >> guest: first of all, the most important thing was to find that independent voters. the bedrock of who they were coming people to hear their voices. that was critical to me. i settled on forcing states. the book talks about more than that but there are four states colorado, ohio

virginia and to new hampshire that i think our key swing states. i began to reach out to to voters and got less from secretary of state end tata call people of the phone. >> host: called them cold? >> guest: a registered independent because fattest is a registered unaffiliated. >> host: in many states you cannot get to that information because you don't have to enroll by party. >> guest: and about half. >> host: but they have to? >> guest: colorado and new hampshire i could find an affiliated but virginia and ohio i used other ways to reach out. but i call people on the

phone to say i am reporter working on the buck and 80% of the cases they were happy to talk to me that somebody wanted to hear what they thought by and large any event came up with a dip the pure chief of the "new york times" said they don't know much they are not informed and i did not find that to be true. independent voters maybe slightly more disengaged because they are so fed up with the party system but i did focus groups and all four states i reached out to no labels or independent voting did or. >> host: you assemble them

yourself? >> i did. political consultants charge a great deal of money. it was a lot of work and very challenging then i travel to the states and i said about the work to find out what they think. >> host: how many did you talk to? >> guest: all my goodness it in addition i talked to activist and elected officials. at least 500. >> host: that is the good sample size let's get to your four types of independent boaters. four successive chapters and with these you identify a group of. and in many ways the npr republicans who you

associate with the hampshire's better everywhere who are they? >> the npr republicans are those we used to think about pass the rockefeller republicans. it is time for these names to be freshened up. rockefeller has been gone for a while. they are all over the country as well. they tend to be more affluent, older, fiscally conservative republicans they would be appalled and think abortion is a personal choice. they are fiscally conservative and returned off by the mismanagement of government and a growth so some of them voted for barack obama of the did not

like the health care reform or the growth of government so they are up for grabs. i would have said mitt romney will be a perfect candidate to appeal but i am not sure now. there is so much disarray. knows where things will stand by the time this shares. but to they are the fund-raisers, raising many, there are plenty of them out there but driven out of office because of the move to the right. >> host: did you hear anger or sadness? >> both. many, there are plenty of them out there but driven out of office because of the move to the right. >> host: did you hear anger or sadness? >> both. talking to legislators to fall into that category. some who were in their felt

very marginalized by the more conservative leadership. so they did feel there was not room for them. >> you the largest of the four groups? >> no. >> host: getting to the other three starbucks mom and dad's where did you find them? >> the starbucks moms and dads are the decide years of the election as suburban moms and dads. more than 50 percent of all americans now live in suburbs. in 1980 was 30%. it is growing rapidly. their racially diverse.

and they swing. they care about the economy economy, led jobs, the deficit, education issues issues, keeping the country safe. they have totally swamped and 2006 voting for the democrats and barack obama but 2010 turned off a bit by the hair -- health care reform concerned about the economy was almost 20 points. >> also because the turnout was low where. >> and they are up for grabs this time around. >> host: those npr republicans are probably

been rolled unaffiliated? >> they are a mixture of republicans and independents prefer never have left to become independent because of their frustration with the social agenda. starbucks moms and dads are the independence but also center right to republicans and center-left democrats. it is tricky because it is called "the swing vote" focusing on independent voters but this is mostly to why talk to but also registered democrats and republicans to swing quite a bit. >> those that call those those conservative the people may not know but we use the word unaffiliated

and independent interchangeably. yes. >> guest: but in most dates but that is how wide chose them. >> host: the third group? younger people? >> facebook generation people under 35. they are registered and the highest percentage than any other age group. they voted big-time four barack obama 2008 but it is a big question not so much especially giving how much but will they vote at all? mariane as voters over 60 barack obama energize them.

and then raise the hope and then on the other cited inouye not letting lobbyists come to the white house instead come to starbucks so they are little turned off perceived by of lack of change. they have stood alone debt and need jobs. they told me. if you talk to rock the boat to they will tell you young people are liberal. there is one group but what i found they would vote for republican and if they gave

them reason. if there is a republican candidate who did not stress the social issues young people from 35 have moved on about the debate of gay marriage, abortion, they are in a different space. they are concerned. >> even though libertarian. >> that is why they like ron paul. >> guest: people say it is because he was to legalize drugs. that is dismiss if. they like him because he is the truth teller. they tell me over and over we want to politician to tell it straight. >> host: interesting. the fourth group? slightly older based out of ohio the. >> reagan democrats what we

traditionally think of as the reagan democrats normally find a lot of these that is who got brown elected. believe bitternut despite the liberal reputation. the use tend to be lower middle-class manufacturing base to employees firemen come it even teachers can be america's first democrats. they are more socially conservative than probably any other group and they're very concerned about the loss of manufacturing jobs.

hit hard by outsourcing and the loss of manufacturing. not really caring this group in 2008 but but to add them to the coalition some of his language about tax cuts not allowing companies to write-off their expenses a lot of these things that he brought up very recently are designed to appeal to this group i do think what republicans have done with the anti-union legislation has turned off this group. i think they are more and play if the republican governor did not overreached. >> host: taking all groups to gather, democrats, what

do they need to do? would that 88 the democratic base as you see it? >> both the democrats and republicans could do the same thing. it would turn off the base to a certain extent. that is a shake-up that we need a 12 parties to work together. i am getting ready to write a piece about the fact we may see no legislation passed in the next eight months. people realize congress is not doing the job.

independent voters said to me. i don't get paid if i don't do my job. no labels has us piece of legislation no budget, no pay. it has been years. they want to see them work together they are concerned about the deficit and they understand the to go together and come soon when we have to deal with the deficit and they want to make sure the country remains safe but also they're happy we get out of the foreign entanglements they feel we have problems at home to be addressing.

they like political leaders being more responsive. they are concerned about fairness relating to the tax code and the benefits the wealthy get they don't feel they are getting. >> host: let's talk about congress or the presidency. why is it good dead-end? the money? ideology? the partisanship started in the '90s? all of those but what is the main thing to you? >> guest: you hit all of them. my first book was about the republican revolution.

i wrote about new cambridge quite a bit. and i think it is fair to say his the architect of our current mess. it is true when they're in control for 50 years they were dismisses to the republicans to sit in a corner and be quiet but when newt gingrich became speaker was thermonuclear war. he saw the way he could win that congress was to demonize the democrats. not enough to say we had better idea but they were terrible people to wreck the country. that escalated the negativity and ability to work together.

and the republican and constant drumbeat and it has sunk in with negative campaign commercials. and then the public as the nine to the bandwagon of government is bad. there is a lot of things that are inefficient but the 80 it is to make it work better. then they give partisanship partisanship, the congressional schedule members of congress now fly and on tuesday afternoon for the first go to and fly out on thursday night to be home fund-raising are campaigning and they never eat dinner together or socialize together.

i live next door to a former member of congress mentioning a republican he did not know who he was. if they are not on the committee with someone they don't know. there is not trusted you don't develop relationships. the leadership is a big problem. the senator from virginia, the moderate democrat was very involved in the gang of six deficit reduction in efforts. with saxby chambliss from georgia they got their head speech in by the leadership who was not remotely interested to work on the deficit because it did not fit the talking points that we make the other side of the bad and we will not work together and fight for every

advantage. rick santorum said something about explaining a vote to that he had to go along with the leadership because they wanted his boat to. >> host: talking about no child left behind. >> that is the mindset on capitol hill. largely male, majority of men with this mentality there are winners and losers. that is the mindset. >> host: what about money? >> guest: that is a very big problem. i thought mccain-feingold was of a good idea but prove not to be with unintended

consequences and now the citizens united decision but no doubt many defects outcome it buys access access, tweaks in the tax code, it is a lot easier to put been dead tax loopholes and benefit than a government program. and i talk with former congressmen taye and click and he said money is not only the mother's milk but also the yogurt and cottage cheese. it controls everything. how we deal with this without a constitutional amendment? for those independent voters to make $50 contributions to candidates that they like.

that they think are doing the right thing and if you think of the elector it course barack obama raised a lot of money. >> host: it is money spent lobbying they spend millions of dollars lobbying for or against the health care bill. >> guest: the same for wall street reform. >> guest: i am not sure how you deal with it. except, members care about money because they want it to to pay for campaigns but

it is a means to an end. the money is the way to get the boat. if the voters showed up i like to believe they could have a difference. >> those in both parties you think iraq admirable 49. talk about him a little bit and who on the republican side, who is there warner? >> obviously olympia snowe and susan collins. >> host: what have they done? >> guest: to tell the truth if they have been terrified. olympia snowe is running for

reelection this year. i believe they were cowed into undoubtedly have said tea party challenger. it has scared a lot of those just like senator lugar with a long history of working in the bipartisan way. >> even orrin hatch who is nobody's moderate this terrified. i think tom coburn who is definitely a conservative, very fiscally

conservative and then took some time off to become a senator, tom coburn was in the gang of six. i have always found him, to be very honest, straightforward, he has a good relationship with barack obama and has always tried to be honest and work on the deficit and cares a lot about deficit reduction they he is not running for reelection. he has announced that. >> host: of freedom comes from the sense he is retired. >> he is freed to do and say what he once in the republican party cannot do anything to him. >> host: skip ahead to the solutions. they are hard to come by.

the chapter is brief but i don't blame you it is hard to figure out. two categories of solutions. thinking of the deadlock system is a third-party presidential candidacy from the center you devote some time to that. is that the solution? could such a person when? >> lazard two separate questions spin 98 expend their energies? >> i will say we will hear more of the intended challenge as it gets going. group preissing $20 million, on the ballot in all 50 states to collect

signatures without a candidate. it is alphabetical. we don't know yet who that candidate will be. >> host: do you know, ? >> i am not saying they're interested but i heard condoleeza rice, general petraeus, the jon huntsman is the kind of candidate. he says he has no interest so i am not sure who to approach. any registered voter can nominate but you cannot nominate a candidate who was on willing to participate. they have to find somebody who is willing to do this. of those i talked with their

very divided. of third-party other side it would never work. independence are all over the map and weather are not we should create and third-party. i do think 1/3 party candidacy this time around is virtually impossible to be successful. it could be controlled that is not out of the question. ross perot got 19% of the buck. that reflects the frustration that raise the deficit and i have heard

bill clinton say in a private to the floor n a private to the floor to make an national issue. the influence of the third-party candidate could be in the issues that they talk about and not with the other one stock about. >> the deficit? what you heard there is concern but the argument with the private sector so strapped like we hear with the auto bailouts with the private sector so strapped government had to put money into the economy. did you hear anybody express sympathy with that argument? >> with the president's stimulus bill?

>> host: the idea of the private sector did not have any money and they needed thing is to keep flowing. >> guest: they were aware the stimulus bill help to keep teachers and firefighters and police in place at a time state governments are cutting severely. dealing with the deficit to will take a lot of discipline and some sacrifice from everyone. if you think of world war ii of the circumstances were a little different. people were willing to sacrifice.

people think the system is reforming itself if we raise taxes on the wealthy, capital-gains or tweak medicare and social security and trim the interest deduction that affects the middle class. if they feel everyone is in it together they are willing to do it. >> host: are the democrats just as resistant on entitlement reform as republicans on taxes? >> guest: yes. the leadership. >> host: obama was floating a possible grand bargain during the summer but you think even if he tried the democrats would not have gone there? >> guest: not at that point*.

the simpson bowles commission at the end of 2010 it was substantive of and the president and ignored it to let it lay there. that was a missed opportunity. some of those proposals in 2013, it will depend who was president but to will probably have to deal with tax reform and the deficit and that is part of the package to do with the deficit and tax reform and it will have to be piper -- bipartisan. >> host: have to be? by the give barack obama is president again will want that but he could muscle democrats into going along with him but the republicans will think if we give him this victory then he is a

victorious president. m. i wrong? >> guest: but if people make their voices heard to say enough of the kraft. enough of posturing. we want real solutions. the house members will stand for reelection in two years. i do think it is possible. >> host: i do also. talking about solutions what are the institutional structure reforms they you think need to have been better possible? you talk about opening up the price reprocess what does that do? >> i think they are fairly modest.

i don't say we need a third party. my reforms are modest because they are doable. they are the kinds of things average citizens push for. opening the primary is very doable. they live in the states district of columbia is one place our rights are nonexistent living in the state that does not have open primaries they should push for them. about it initiative process because if we have open primaries the candidates would be different if they had to appeal across the board you have much more centrist candidates. >> host: does evidence showed that?

do they say that those are more moderate? >> i think it does. and i did not do the quantitative analysis. it also takes participation. they have to show up. >> host: and have bet that pass to be developed over time. but i do think makes a difference. district reform and the use of things california is working on right now. adopting the the top two system for nominating candidates. i have concerns about that. i feel when you read statewide and a state like california at least when you

have the candidate to get on the ballot as the independent the bar was not as high. whereas statewide had a multimillion-dollar campaigns. the top two i am not sure would benefit i'm not sure it benefits those to have the redistricting commission and i think we will see some better districts as a result. the way they are drawn now is to protect both parties and typically the public has almost nothing to say and rarely testifies. most deals are cut in the

back room. and the public is cut out of the process. right now at any estimate is truly competitive at a 4305, if we had more 1/2 to appeal to the broad spectrum of the center not just the democratic constituents. that is another thing. but people should make small contributions. money is intractable. money and influence getting to the heart of making contributions and making your voice heard. letting them know what you care about. i talk about no labels, the coffee party comment

independent voting.org. i don't think any have had a significant impact. they can start in their own community. the internet to is quite a leveller. they can blog and start newsletters to be more activist. i named my last chapter battle cry using the quote when he was sworn in as president rican began the world again. democracy is participatory. also a big problem they are very skeptical and dismissive of these voters in the middle.

they don't give them much credit. how do they go to? they need to prove the pundits wrong. this is what i am hoping for a. >> >> host: in the book is "the swing vote" the untapped power of independents" now we get to the fund segment. where did you grow up? >> connecticut on the shoreline which is about 10 miles east of new haven very idyllic communicate -- community. the most beautiful green of all of new england. >> you add journalist for how long? >> i was the editor of all things considered and i had

day traditional media career , someone my age would have. i worked at the telegram and a, forms magazine and npr been left to right by first book the freshman. negative then after that i was a director at the washington center here teaching journalism then i left to do this but. >> host: you are with the wilson center? >> yes. >> that was created as the living tribute to woodrow wilson who was the only phd president we ever had.

president of princeton before elected president. my chocolate lab is named will send an honor of him. it is the center where international scholars can do research to think of various issues affecting the u.s. >> host: i need doing much traveling? >> i am. i will be an ohio for super tuesday i am very excited about that. will make a trip to new england at the end of march for carlos speak in new hampshire and be at the main book festival march 31st.

i look forward to that. hi amd traveling to my swing states also hoping to go to colorado. >> host: talk about the president. you have a chapter about him but what is your assessment of his job performance? >> i am a little critical. people think i am the equal opportunity critic people think i am overly critical of the republican party. i think i am former -- fairly critical of former speaker pelosi who has endangered i necessarily her centrist democrats with the votes she made them take and i was writing about

that. i was predicting exactly what would have been with the boats she made them take. >> host: what most notably? >> a climate change vote vote, captain trade and then of course, health care. that situation that will pass but the democrats' decision to do that as opposed to focusing on the economy, i personally think was a mistake. progressive democrats are not healthy -- happy with health care reform. it did not shore up some much the democratic base but angered a lot of other people who have health insurance man who said there are more pressing issues to

deal with. and i do think to some extent barack obama of relative lack of experience before he was president we have seen the result he has not shown as much leadership as he should have. obviously he has been dealt an extraordinarily tough hand with the republicans and willingness to work with him and the economy and the threats from iran and we don't know what will happen. but he could have shown more of leadership when it relates to the deficit commission he should have knocked some democratic leaders heads just like lbj

to say this is the way to do this. >> host: why did he not do that? >> guest: it is not in his personality. not the way he looks at the world. he is consensus, not confrontational and it was also his relative lack of experience in the senate before president. >> host: talk about the republican race. [laughter] obviously it is not controversial to say it has gone further to the right this time around but what do you see as the future of the republican party? i am curious about that. what might change that dynamic?

>> i don't know. i would have said one year-ago it would be a good candidate to challenge barack obama been doing alien taste everything he can to alienate the mitt romney has tried to appeal to the conservative right to make up the republican primary voters. we did not talk about media much but in the republican primary, the way the media covered it, there is an opportunity it is a constant drumbeat about what stupid

things did nuking rich or rick santorum say today? all are white did mitt romney do? who was up, who was down, i think substances being ignored in the constant turning of the horse racing and drumbeat of what is happening and i think that turns off a lot of voters. i know they ain't the voters in the center as a result, polls show the independent voters watch the debates and a lower percentage even more than democrats. and with this negative advertising and focusing

september are october and that the republicans fight it out comment get a nominee that is when the independent voters will start to pay attention. >> host: we're out of time. one last question. be realistic but optimistic. in 10 years time, i do think the system could be in better shape than it is now? >> >> guest: i really help those people who are fed up independence and others who say with the book "the swing vote" yes, somebody gets it. even to get active. but such serious problems