and pay them and use them to pay down the debt so this is better safe than sorry and i urge approval of the amendment. >> the gentlelady yields back. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no with a roll call vote is requested. >> [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] >> any other members looking to vote? >> [roll call] >> anybody else? if not, the clerk will report to the estimate mr. chairman on that vote the ayes of 15 and the noes is 21. >> the amendment isn't agreed to. mr. doggett, is he here? mr. blumenauer, are you ready? >> yet. but i will do is not claimed by

-- >> we are on the six minute plan for him to you have an amendment at the desk? >> the clerk will report. >> an amendment offered by mr. blumenauer related to taxes. >> is this environmental protection? >> blumenauer is 23? >> the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. >> i'm not going to ask for the recorded vote. i want to illustrate and this is one of the things that in a rational world we would be looking on together and an act. we had a superfund program and tax and exempted the petrochemical industry for the responsibility, and in exchange, they paid a small fee, actually three small fees. these expired in 1995, the superfund program didn't. we have been feeding some general fund in to it and we have given the petrochemical industry pass and we are

languishing. now the big projects are left read we study, salles and xu. this is a reasonable user fee that is not a massive tax. it was something the industry had for years ago benefit from it and communities or benefited from it. a number of thus -- i checked some of you have superfund sites, others of you have seen what works to the this is the sort of thing that converse at one complaint could do. it's not a big tax increase. it is a fee. they were given a benefit and our communities are given the benefit and this is the sort of thing when we come back and start acting like grown-ups and the will enact again and i wanted to put on their radar screen i don't want the protected debate or force a vote but i would like each of you to think about it and then at some point when we are legislating i would like to come back to this because they're ought to be bipartisan support to reenact the superfund fees so we can stop studying, stalling and

soothing, and the federal government can assume its rightful obligation because i will tell you in communities like mine i've got a huge superfund and most -- not most but a bunch of the responsibility is the federal government because we commissioned and decommissioned ships in the river. anyway, careful or i will demand a roll call vote and debate it. estimate does the gentleman with all the amendment? >> yield back. estimate the gentleman yields back. does the gentleman withdrew the amendment? >> thank you very much. >> all right, mr. yarmuth, are you ready? okay. stat mr. chairman i have an amendment at the desk. >> the staff will distribute. >> an amendment offered by mr. doggett relating -- >> mr. yarmuth -- >> you're bouncing around a

little bit. >> number 24. estimate offered by mr. yarmuth related to oil and gas. >> the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. since we have debated during the amendment offered by mr. ryan the use of the savings generated by e eliminating khalil and gas company tax subsidies and since the other side rejected that i'm offering another use for a comment that is to provide a rebate to all the consumers who own or rent one for a least more than of your. this would return $38.6 billion on the one time basis, providing $160 per vehicle or her family of two, $320 but small business, $800 helped delay the entire cause of gasoline during the

summer. mr. ryan dutifully inaccurately documented the incredibly high profits and the pointlessness of the tax subsidies that are now providing the companies and i would like to remind my colleagues of something that george w. bush as president in 2005, nobody closer to the oil business, and he said, quote, with 55 dollar we'll we don't need incentives for the companies to explore. there are plenty of incentives. also the executives themselves have said the productions will be sufficient or traditional investment. we are now at the oil prices of almost $110 a merrill or twice the level which george bush said there was the need for subsidies. the american people are paying the oil companies and there is no possible justification for asking taxpayers to continue to

subsidize the companies on their subsidizing them already at the pump. so this would return $38.6 billion to the consumers immediately call and i would urge its support. >> mr. langford is recognized for three minutes. >> thank you. again, i come back to the same issue we're dealing with right now in the economy, the debt and deficit struggling against an unemployment, we cannot kill one to benefit the other and try to balance this out and one of our biggest issues right now is the issue of unemployment, so tell you what to look at the states that have the lowest unemployment rate and you are going to find the energy producing states. what is triggering some of that? to different aspects of how the production has gone on. one happens to be technology methods that are happening right now we're finding a lot more oil than we ever found it's just a lot more expensive to fight to

read the traditional well to go in the ground and put out and it's a lot cheaper than a horizontal well with hydraulics rocking where you will go down a mile and go down to miles. the traditional well maybe $2 million it may be $6 million. if you get a chance just in the drilling process it is more expensive to do so it isn't an apples to apples comparison to say we have 50 over here and on the cost to a different dynamic seven in the tax policy on that. we are right now producing great news for us, 58% of the oil that we use in america last quarter was produced domestically. what we have heard for so many years is 60% of the oil was imported that isn't true as of the last quarter 58% is produced domestically. we have finally hit a formula where we are getting close to domestic production, and that we can do at least to get north america to of canada to mexico, the united states, and to have all of that produce our energy on that. if we stop now and decide they've made enough money and go

back to the carter years in the profits tax and try to shift back we will slow down production again no matter what, we're going to slow down the production in the process because we changed the business model formula. at this point i would say let us continue to grow its debt energy independence and continue to be the will to progress on. you cannot decrease in gas prices by increasing taxes and a bit like to yield the remaining time. >> thank you. let's not be distracted here. since this president took office the price of gasoline has doubled and there is one simple answer and that is the change in policies out of this administration. the president can travel around the country and suggest he's trying hard to do something or can't do something about it. we have multiple bills come multiple ways to reduce the price of the pump. it can be done, it will be done if this president with a single handedly allow keystone to start and allow the domestic

exploration to go forward. politics around the sort atrocious if people are paying more than they have to pay because of this president. all i yield back my time. >> the gentleman in that order. the gentleman is recognized. >> i'm not sure what the two of you should not get together and discuss it because it sounds like you were disagreeing on each other as to what the status of the industry is to we will see we have heard time and time again from the other side of the tax code shouldn't pick winners and losers. the tax subsidy picks winners and losers and oil companies and gas companies and that industry. i will say with relation to jobs, i want to repeat, this would put $38.6 billion into the economy immediately. mr. chairman, in your state alone, $760 million in wisconsin economy, for a plate mill in wisconsin who face higher prices at the pump would receive this

money to help to free the cost of the gasoline. again, president bush that long ago in 2005 said that leal has $65 a barrel there's no need for the subsidy company's executives to the say the same thing. there is no justification for the subsidy anymore i say let's take this money and return it to the american consumer and flat that helped them while we were to lower the cost of driving and fuel over the long term. i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back the balance and the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from kentucky all of those in favor say ayes. >> it appears the noes have a. i almost did it. do you want a roll call? mr.. [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

>> anybody else looking to change their vote? during on the clerk shall report. >> on that vote the ayes are 15 and the noes are 21. estimate the amendment is not agreed to. stomach ms. collins? are you ready? does the clerk of the amendment at the desk since it got shuffled want to make sure that it is actually at the desk. amendment number 25 at the desk? >> offered by ms. mccaul one relating to public schools. >> recognized for two minutes. >> thank you. the average public school building is 40-years-old. conservative estimates of the school maintenance and appear nationwide that at at least $250 billion.

this amendment increases funding to go towards repairs at $40 billion. this investment will allow for approximately 55,000 public-school to the improved triet in proved any way that will help offset an unfunded mandate that the federal government still hasn't lived up to as 88. many of our schools are still struggling to comply with the 88 compliance. we cannot expect the students come of our students to succeed utter infrastructure if it is failing them. to compete and succeed, we need high lead content of global economies, our students need state spaces in which to live that virtually wired. strategic investments and schooling for stricter are good for the economy. it will significantly cut long-term cuts for taxpayers by increasing energy efficiency, reducing maintenance cost and starting to help with the unfunded mandates passed on by the congress and improve student

learning and prepare for the future work force and they will create much-needed jobs. so i would encourage people to think seriously about how to help our schools with unfunded mandates, give our kids a world-class competition and put america back to work, and this is a small drop in the bucket but it is significant putting people to work and starting to address the school deferred maintenance and repair of $270 billion. i urge support. >> i'm happy to do repairs and schools. however, there is no federal authority with which to use amendment number ten in the eyes of its constitution we all read the constitution the first week we were here. the power is indicated to the united states by the constitution nor prohibited to the states the reserve to the states respectively or to the people and the fact of the

matter is we can go ahead and tax $30 billion from taxpayers and this is followed 1 dollar, that comes to washington, d.c. from appleton wisconsin we turn the lights on and pay the heat and wages and the department of education 50 cents back to the state of wisconsin. state of wisconsin does the same thing but they take 25 cents out, 25 cents goes to appleton to but let's leave the dollar in appleton and have them fixed their own buildings and i yield back. >> well the gentlelady field first? >> i have a minute to close. estimate by will give you mine and then my minute. i appreciate the fact that you cited the constitution, but we have since 1973 mandated which i believe is the right thing to do that schools be accessible for all students. this money can help school districts offset that unfunded

mandate that does exist, and so i think to say that the federal government has no role in helping with of the school construction when we have so much of their that needs to be done, needs to be done all for our children with physical impairment can attend the schools and a yield of the remaining time. >> it's important to recognize a lot of these communities if they don't have the money to put into their schools they just don't have it, the industrial base white them out, they got a high population and they got a poor community and the title won funds and the others would go to help the schools are free helpful for these communities, so the theory may sound good but there's a lot of young kids in the economy. estimate the time has expired. the question is to the gentle lady from minnesota. those in favor, aye, the supposed, no.

the clerk will call the roll. [roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

any other members looking to change the vote? if not, the clerk shall report. estimate mr. treen on that vote, the ayes are 15 and the noes or 20. >> noes have it, the amendment is not agreed to. >> ms. schwartz, are you ready? does the clerk have number 29, schwartz 29? >> i have an amendment at the desk offered by ms. schwartz related to the women's health to be as committed the gentlelady is recognized. >> i will talk quickly. the affordable care act ensures women receive preventive health services with no additional cost health insurance plans will require, be required to cover women's preventive services including well women's visits, mammograms, pap smears and contraception without charging the copayment, coinsurance or deductible. coverage for prevention and

screening services identify medical conditions and enable early treatment and prevention for women access to family planning services is vital for women's health and well-being particularly of course the two-thirds of american women who are of reproductive age. while health insurance policies may include a contraceptive services and most do some is inconsistent and co-payments and deductibles often comply. financial costs are a barrier to seeking preventive services and the affordable c.a.r.e. will ensure that the cost of preventive services including contraceptives is no longer an impediment to family planning for american women. 20 million women have access to family planning services without the co-payment to the affordable act. they are appealing the budget reveals as vital coverage and the pieces of ford's women across the nation. i urge my colleagues to stand with the majority of the men and women in the country to support in german women's access to the preventive services including contraceptive services.

many people want to speak sign going to yield of the remainder of my time to mr. ryan from ohio estimate of what everyone in the committee to know ronald reagan raised taxes 11 different times. just making sure you're listening. [laughter] let me join with of the gentlelady to say this is crucial and saves money in the long term if we reduce the abortion rate and this is something that we all need to focus on. this is a health care issue but it's also reduced unintended pregnancies and i think the gentlelady. >> i yield back the remainder of my time. >> no one here is talking about taking away access of birth control to women. it's available. and as a nurse for over 40 years, i know it's available.

it's a civil in clinics, it is available in health departments and as a matter of fact it is available at the health department's free because of title ten. so access to birth control is available. now, this debate comes about as a result of the recent hhs mandate about government interfering in states based institutions and it's a dangerous precedent because it is an assault on the first amendment freedom. that is what this is about. this is not about access to care. it's not about access to contraceptives. this is about tromping on the first amendment right if you like what you have you can keep it. we found out that wasn't true because the fees based organizations are now being forced to do something that is morally unconscionable to them and we've created a situation

the federal government and whoever is in control that has been strong for over 200 years plouhinec. this is a dangerous precedent. >> i yield one minute to the chairman. >> i can't say it much better than that. this isn't about contraceptives, this is about whether the government can mandate ha and use things that violate their religious liberties, religious teachings and their conscious. whether the federal government can now define the new right for us required by the citizens and religious organizations to violate their own teachings and trump our constitutional rights and not just any of our constitutional rights, our first amendment rights. our first amendment rights come to us automatically. before government.

that's how it works in the declaration. this new mandate says that these government granted rights trump, this place, interfered, push away our first amendment right to religious liberty. this is not -- doesn't do anything about birth control. everything is to do with whether or not we are going to give this kind of power to our federal government to violate our first amendment rights. if you care about the constitution, if you care of religious liberty, if you care about religious freedom if you care about conscience, pluralism in our society, you'll vote against this amendment. i yield back. the lady is recognized for one minute to close. this somewhat of a settled matter that they have access to contraceptive services and the

fact that they would be part of preventive care seems like the reasonable thing to do, and certainly suggested that it is. the issue about access to contraceptives is a broad one. the discussion about religious freedom from many of us believe religious freedom in the country is extremely important in this for many of us a belief that we should recognize the poor was of religious belief in the country increase not have one of religious beliefs dictate that policy to all the rest of us. the specifics that got worked out with most of the religious institutions were quite comfortable with the answers provided in the way this would be handled. with the administration i attended the bishops were not not be comfortable and i do understand the of the side of the ogle points to contraception quite a bit. can this is an issue that most

americans -- >> it is provided -- >> this is not a good idea. to the gentle lady from pennsylvania those in favor say aye. those opposed come no. the noes have it. recorded vote is requested. the clerk will report the vote. [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] >> anybody want to change their vote? >> on that vote the ayes 16 and the noes are 21. >> the noes have it and the amendment is not agreed to. mr. doggett is here, so i just want to make sure that it's at the desk. number 22 at the desk clocks.

>> an amendment offered by mr. doggett relating to a head start. >> we have long recognized and investment in our youngest children is an investment that pays the longest and most important dividends. the head start program has through the years since was founded under the leadership of president lyndon johnson been a program that has enjoyed by bipartisan support. 92% of the children enrolled in head start in 2010 were deemed eligible because their families felt well below the poverty line. for reasons that i am unaware of, there are some that said we could not afford to invest in our youngest americans, that instead we must use those resources for other purposes.

i believe of dollar in head start is a dollar that the benefits to society in many ways not only in the learning opportunities for these young people preparing them to be ready to learn, but in other costs to society that are avoided from young people who do not get a good start in school. as the mcminn head start students have gone on to become head start teachers and become leaders in our country. i know the gentleman from wisconsin is very familiar and i would yield to her one minute if she would like to add a word about the importance of head start. >> thank you for yielding. head start has been one of the programs that's been supported consistently by both democrats and republicans cannot of the great society and let me tell you this, the science is in the argument the debate is over.

the earlier that we get young people into some sort of formal educational opportunity the better off they are going to be. in fact, it is a better expenditure of dollars. it's been a good time is expired. i was hoping to finish. >> even to spend it i foot think. >> recognized for three minutes to read >> this budget assumes no reduction to the head start program and the assumption is its head start is to be increased that the funds would come from other spending reductions and not tax increases i r.j. no vote and yelled back. >> the gentleman. >> mr. chairman, i believe the investment in our youngest americans is an investment that will be used regains for the country. it's reasonable that it should

be paid for. if the gentleman has another pay for that he prefers in order to ensure these young americans opportunity, i would welcome his amendment to this proposal but i think the idea of fully paying for it by asking some of the companies like exxon and some of those that have prospered the most in this economy to pay as much as the people that call in their offices pay as a percentage of their tax is not unreasonable particularly when the benefits america gains from having our children well-prepared from school and to contribute and participate in this economy and achieve their god-given potential as an investment we ought to make and remove the adoption of the amendment. the estimate of those in favor say aye. those opposed, [roll no to reade clerk will call the roll.

[roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

any other member is looking to change their vote? is not the clerk shall report. >> though ayes are 15 and the noes is 21. >> the amendment is not agreed to. mr. van hollen is recognized. >> i have an amendment at the desk. >> an amendment offered by mr. van hollen related to discretionary spending. >> the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. >> thank you. this amendment is sticking with agreements that have been made. everybody in this room knows the budget control act was enacted by this conference and signed by the president last summer was hard fought and hard negotiated and there were lots of compromises as part and one of the compromises is that we sat low level for discretionary spending for fiscal year 2013 at

1,047,000,000,000. that involves all sorts of things like wic funding and nih funding. we hear a lot of our colleagues say we are not going to cut that, but the reality is when you start reducing significantly the spending caps that has an impact nobody knows that better than the appropriators. republicans and democrats alike and it's also interesting mr. chairman that one of the major budget reforms that has been proposed in this committee and in a lot of members, republican members especially is that resolution to say we have to have joint budget resolutions what we mean by that, the president has to sign that. in fact you call it when you do the legally binding that's what we did with the budget control act passed by the house and the senate, the president signed it. this amendment simply says let's stick to the deal. i don't want to get them into trouble but we have some very wise appropriators on both sides of the all what's going to

happen at the end of the day. and i'm not trying to get you in trouble but it's true. [laughter] >> there was an agreement. i'm not going to do any quotes but mr. kohl has predicted what the endgame is. the senate is already enacted the deal from last year. let's not shut down the government at the end of the day because we are not going to stick to the deal the was made in congress and signed by the president last august. estimate i will clean the three minutes in opposition and won't take all that time. since when do these things become floors? it's a spending ceiling .1. plight to, the budget control act has to discretionary in numbers. it has $1,047,000,000,000 in the

discretionary cap and the sequestered its coming in on january 2nd it then becomes $950 billion. we are not going to ignore the sequestered. a very reason why we are reconciling six authorizing committees, agriculture, financial services, commerce, ways and means, oversight and judiciary is to show how to deal with the sequester. so we just don't think that we should ignore what is coming $950 billion, that's why we are preparing. we see law and we are getting ready for it. that's why this has 1028. i would like to go lower and in the other six all cruisers which we haven't reconciled for years because i would not argue the health care law was the true reconciliation as savings we are getting ready for the sequester

and so the deal is a deal and the deal but past has 1047 and 950. you're in the to the members and how to make up the rest of it by the reconciliation. i will yield that the balance of my time and recognize the gentleman to close. >> thank you mr. chairman. unfortunately, the result of what's happening in the budget is going to be those negotiations that took place are going to have to be even tougher and people were going to get everyone to sign on the dotted line because one of the benefits that can out of the budget control act, and i heard this from both sides of the oil was a was going to provide stability in the appropriations process for fiscal year 2013, stability sorry wouldn't risk the government shut down. now if the number is anywhere between zero to 1,047,000,000,000 which is what you are saying mr. chairman its zero if it is a cap. the members to negotiate that

and many of us are part of it understood with the number would be. we hoped would provide stability, what you are doing is breaking an agreement between different appropriations process into on mrs. orie chaos, but stressed hope we don't take this to the end of the warrior and threaten the government shut down because of the broken deal of the end of the day. finton mr. chairman. >> offered by the member of maryland all in favor say aye. those opposed, noes. in the opinion of the chair, the noes have it. recorded vote is requested. the clerk will call the roll. [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] anyone want to change their vote? i don't think so. [laughter] >> if not the clerk shall report. estimate on that vote of the

ayes are 16 and the noes are 21. estimate the noes have it and the amendment are not agreed to. two more amendments. ms. more, this is number 21, the child support, is that right? >> i would request two minutes with no time to rebut. [laughter] >> you can have that. i will take 15 seconds to say we are all for it. but we would like to end with this nice positive note. >> i do have an amendment at the desk. >> related to the child support enforcement it >> stat thank you mr. chairman. this is a simple sense of the house that it's important that child support enforcement that there is additional legislative action that we can make it as effective as it could be. child support is so important particularly because we don't have an entitlement part of the

benefits for children on an average child support payments constitute to about 17% of family income. when you look at a poor family, that jumps up to 30% of income, and when you get a single mother family, charnel support constitutes 39% of all the household income and reduces poverty by about 25%. this federal program child support enforcement is a very smart investment, and the omb is characterized the support program as one of the highest-rated block formula grants a full review programs government-wide. it's the most effective anti-poverty mechanism. collections double over the last decade, ensuring that kids received and fewer kids need government assistance. for every dollar we spent on child support we saved a dollar on other programs like medicaid.

it has provided $26.6 billion to the collections to the custodial parent but only about half of this is collected, so we need legislation so we can effectively collect the other 56% and encourage states to pass 100% of child support on to the custodial parents, and so with that i would yield back the balance of my time. senate i will take the rest of your time and say you make very compelling arguments. we concur with this and i urge that we do this on voice. the time is expired. the question is on the agreement to the amendment offered by the gentle lady from wisconsin. all those in favor say aye. those opposed come no. okay. the ayes have it. ayes have it. the amendment is agreed to. now, have a technical amendment

at the desk. this is an amendment that is technical and has been agreed to and cleared with minority without having to go in to the explanation i asked the question is not agreeing to the technical amendment. the clerk will designate. i apologize. >> and amendment offered by mr. ryan to the technical corrections. >> its technical amendment with of the minority yield back the time the question is on agreeing to the amendment offered by the chairman. those in favor, aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. the amendment is agreed to. >> all right. >> connect i recognize the member from new jersey. estimate the move the committee adopted the budget etiquette's other matters to estimate the question is on the budget aggregates and other

appropriate. all those nm to favors a aye, those opposed, no. in the opinion of the share, the ayes have it. pursuant to the committee will number nine, now called the text of the concurrent mitchell bush on the in corporate functional levels and other relevant items as previously agreed to. i recognize the gentleman from new jersey for the motion to order the resolution reported to the house to read some of the committee on the budget order to the concurrent resolution of the budget reported to the house if the recommendation to the resolution to pass. as to the question as ordering the concurrent look resolution reported to the house to read all those in favor say aye. all those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. did you want a roll call vote. >> the hearing support of the health care bill. [laughter] >> the clerk will call the roll.

estimate [roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

[roll call] >> mr. van [roll call]

[roll call] [roll call] [roll call]

>> [roll call] >> mr. chairman come on that vote, the ayes are 19 and the noes are 18. >> the ayes have it and the motion is agreed to. it is ordered reported to the house of representatives and i know for a record a quorum is present. >> first [inaudible] with that i ask for the

requisite number of days to submit the minority views. >> before i recognize the gentleman from new jersey, i want to thank the members for a long day for all the participation and the staff for their enormous hours and the budget for all their hours and for everybody that helped put this together. i now recognize the member from new jersey. estimate i move to present the committee authorized the chairman to oversee the notions of the house as may be necessary to go to conference with the senate on the concurrent resolution of the budget. >> without objection, so ordered. i recognize the gentleman from new jersey. >> i ask unanimous consent to be authorized to make technical and conforming connections and calculate the elements required in the resolution prior to the filing of the resolution. estimate without objection, so ordered. >> that concludes today's business of the house budget committee and the committee now stands adjourned.

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[inaudible conversations] >> after a daylong session the house budget committee approved the republican budget proposal for next year. while the gop plan is non-binding, it calls for the repeal of the health care law. while transferring medicare into a system in which the government

subsidizes purchases of health insurance on the private market instead of directly paying doctor and hospital bills. the house is expected to vote on the proposal next week. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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>> in a few moments come at a hearing on the threat of terrorist attacks. in a little more than an hour, speakers on the house budget law. republican representative peter king of new york, chairman of homeland security committee, says that there are thousands of hezbollah operatives within the u.s. especially with tensions of iran as cleaning over and the nuclear plant. this hearing will be a little more than two hours. >> good morning.

the committee on homeland security will come to order. the committee is meeting this morning to examine the threat to the u.s. homeland posed by iran and the foreign terrorist organization hezbollah. we wish her mind the audience today >> the chair wishes to thank our guests at and cooperation of maintaining order. and i recognize myself for an opening statement. >> since 9/11, america's counterterror officials have focused on finding al qaeda operatives inside america, as well as homegrown islamic extremist, ready to perpetrate violence against our people. as iran moves closer to nuclear weapons, and there is increasing

and concern over war between iran and israel, we must also focus on iran's secret operatives and the number one terrorist proxy force, hezbollah, which we know is in america. that is right. we know that hezbollah operatives are here. the question is whether these has blood operatives have the capacity to carry out attacks on the homeland, and how quickly they can become fully operational. more than 20 several -- federal investigation since 9/11, identified by the investigative staff offer a chilling view of iranian and has blood operations inside the united states. just this week, in new york city, another trial has begun of a building superintendent who was charged with attempting to provide weapons and support and supplies to hezbollah. snape we stand with our major

ally, israel did it puts us in the middle of the extremist regime with iran as it moves dangerously closer to making a nuclear bomb. iran has responded with its trademark terrorist brutality overseas. we have seen this before in reagan 1983, and renault series in 1992 and 1994. and if iran had its way, washington dc also would have witnessed terrible carnage in the smoky rooms of a popular local restaurant only a few months ago. many carolyn or terrorism insiders were stunned last october by the brazen plot by intelligence services to assassinate the ambassador and bombing are washington's capital. i commend it date -- dea for

supporting this attack on the capital >> in light of last year's farm plot, and last in light of the hezbollah cases prosecuted since 9/11, in light of hezbollah attacks overseas, we have a duty to prepare for the worst. today's investigative hearing is the beginning of this committee's effort to size up the serious threat by one of international terrorism's most violent murder gangs. how many iranian and hezbollah terrorist are here already? the highly disciplined soldiers of hezbollah are trained to lie low for years or decades. those who have gone up against this enemy for our government estimates the number to be a minimum in the hundreds. also, there are 55 iranian diplomats at the un mission in new york and another 29 iranian officials here in dc, according

to the, menstruation. many of whom who must be presumed, our intelligence officers. several of their comrades -- of these un mission types were removed from the un mission and sent back to iran after the nypd cop and photographing the city's rail systems since 9/11. additionally, as the nypd will point out today, there have been five other events, including and involving the iranian diplomatic personnel, which almost certainly constituted hezbollah reconnaissance operations against new york. many mistakenly assumed that has blood operatives here were only capable of fundraising for the lebanon -based group and cigarette smuggling. what has been told to us by officials is that there is a

network nationwide network of terror for us capable of great violence on orders from its leaders in iran and lebanon. in 2009, the obama administration said that hezbollah is the most technically capable terrorist group in the world. our witnesses, specifically chris, an fbi agent, explained that haslett has been trained in weapons, explosives, and spying in iran. these people were in the united states as has blood operatives severalq

>> these threats are real. they could be sooner rather than later. as a government, we cannot afford to ignore the threats. i recognize the gentleman from mississippi, mr. thompson, for his opening statement. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, for calling this hearing today. as the homeland security committee, we are charged with the responsibility of ensuring

this nation's security. we must ask unpopular questions and seek answers which make people uncomfortable. today's people does not pose the question, and makes a statement. iran has been a threat to the homeland. i hope that today's hearing can provide support for this statement. given that no current officials have been asked here to testify today, i am concerned about whether the testimony we received will be based on current information. as the homeland security committee, it is unusual for us to have a hearing about a foreseen threat on our country. our jurisdiction involves the security and safety of this country within our shores. before we begin to venture into this new territory, a word of caution is in order.

when we examine our relationship with another country, we cannot look at any particular moment in time and pretend that it tells the whole story. we cannot be the politics, history, and culture of any culture clearly by seeing a snapshot version. our nations relationship with iran cannot be understood by simply looking at this moment in time. our major break with iran came in 1979 when employees of american embassy were taken captive and held as hostages for 444 days. this action prevented a direct threat to the united states citizens and the united states interests. we did not go to war with iran. in 1998, iran allegedly operating through hezbollah, kidnapped and murdered a u.s. green. we did not go to war with iran. in 1996, iran allegedly

supported the terrorist group that bombed the towers, a u.s. military residence, that attacked 19 u.s. servicemen. we did not go to war with iran. in these situations, we seem to follow the advice of pope john paul ii mac who said war is not always inevitable. instead of going to war with republicans and democratic administrations, president carter, reagan, bush, clinton, put public sanctions on iran. in recent years, the united states had expanded those sanctions. this year the european union joined the efforts to sanction iran. that includes halting new imports. in addition, the eu has imposed new banking restrictions on iran. these restrictions known as

reach into the global banking system. they short-circuit iranians a money system. without the ability to be the international banking system, it is unlike a bit iran's current inflation rate will rise and wreak economic havoc. they say that the possibility that iran would have nuclear weapons -- it creates a new urgency. i agree that if iran were on the path to creating a nuclear weapon, we would have cause for concern. but iran is not close to having a nuclear weapon. james clapper, director of the national intelligence has testified before the senate that while iran is expanding its uranium enrichment program, he doesn't believe that they have made a decision to develop a nuclear weapon. i think the director of national intelligence deserves our trust. do we have any questions about

director clappers estimation of iran's capabilities or intentions? we should call him before this committee in a classified setting to hear his comments. but we should not engage on a public discussion that creates fear and delivers this information. mr. chairman, i think by now we have learned the potential threats from weapons that do not exist should not determine our foreign policy. potential threats that do not exist can never again be the reason to consider sacrificing the lives of thousands of americans in the deserts of a foreign land. securing this nation demands that we calmly assist the threats we face and based on the threats that we know are real. securing this nation requires both focus and diligence. neither can be achieved where there is fear and misinformation. with that, mr. chairman, i give

back. >> i would just like to a fissure the ranking member we are not focusing on foreign policy here today. we're talking about an internal threat to this country. it is not the number one domestic concern. it is the threat of iran to carry out on this country. the question is will that tribe and allow iran to launch has blood attacks on this country. the director of national intelligence is very concerned about that. we don't believe it is within our jurisdiction to determine whether a foreign entity will carry out terrorist attacks within our country, we are not doing our job. to me, it is not even a question. this is clearly within our jurisdiction. that is why i ain't intend to proceed with hearings and subsequent hearings if i have to. >> i look forward to the testimony to see whether or not

the witness is just what you said. >> in view of your suggestion, we may ask general clapper to come in and follow up on his statement that iran and has blood are the number one domestic threats to united states today. i like to think all the witnesses for being here today. i will give more extensive introductions as we go along. mitchell silber is the director of intelligence analysis. we have the director of criminal investigative divisive division. >> at that time, mr. michael braun, managing partner of spectre group international and an expert in this field, doctor matthew levitt is part of the stein program of counter -ism of

them. >> he was called as a witness and we are delighted to have him here today. i spoke to him earlier. our first witness is mitchell silber, who is the director of intelligence analysis for the new york intelligence division. mr. silver is an expert at with counterterrorism. he has done outstanding work with the nypd, it and putting together extensive counterterrorism programs. let me just thank you and the nypd as a new yorker for the truly outstanding work you have done and in spite of the rational attacks against you by the new york times, associated press and other misguided politicians, thank you for the job you have done and continue to do, especially regarding the 14 plots of new york you have

stopped. with that, mr. silver is recognized. >> good morning. thank you for this opportunity to testify. mr. chairman, members of the committee, over the past decade the new york city police department has expanded to address the problems regarding home-grown terrorism. ground in existing law and supporting the u.s. constitution, we have built and intelligence and counterterrorism program that has helped protect the city from 14 carats plot in 2001. as a director of intel in that intelligence analysis, my job is to

>> dating back to 2005, the developments of iran and nuclear weapons program could trigger a full-blown conflict in the persian gulf in involving iran, israel, and potentially the united states. in light of new york's support of a terrorist target, its status as one of the two outposts of iranian at the minute resident in the u.s. it is the united nations mission to, the city remains the most likely venue for intentions to spill over onto american soil. terrorist attacks by hezbollah in new york city could involve military action against its regime. while it is not my role to weigh in on potential u.s. diplomatic and military strategy, the nypd is responsible to consider all the possibilities and taking

percussions necessary to keep new york and america safe. previous conduct by hezbollah in york city suggests on several occasions going back nearly a decade iran may have conducted hostile reconnaissance of the infrastructure. in june 2002, november 2003, in may 2004, it involved iranian mission guards, videotaping infrastructure, the road yards. hezbollah engaged in activities that were not consistent with their duties. three of similar instances, which have not been previously discussed publicly, occurred in may 2005 and in september 2008, and also went september 2010. again, the united nations general assembly and federal air

marshals observed for individuals taking video and taking pictures of structural areas of the landing pad in new york. in a field interview, all four of the interviews stating they were employed at the islamic republic of iran broadcasting company and produced press card as identification. hezbollah and its supporters also have a presence in new york and the surrounding area. based on the nypd's investigative findings, the majority of these individuals hail from hezbollah strongholds in southern lebanon, including lebanese towns. some of these individuals in new york are family members of hezbollah local leaders, or associates of known rating members of hezbollah, or in some rare cases have received military training him has blood in lebanon.

based on the nature of these continuing relationships, with members of hezbollah in lebanon, the notion that has been thought by -- the nypd has spent significant time and efforts studying iranian and hezbollah attacks worldwide. in order to port attacks in the city. it was notable in 1992 and 1994 running which killed 29 and 85 people respectively. in these cases, around used it diplomatically as in skin raynaud's aries to design and quarter nate and order the institution of the attack, which was then carried out by hezbollah operatives from abroad who leveraged the local ebony's community, as in many cases, unwilling facilities.

these are possibly linked to them. >> this is because the plots really demonstrate that iran and hezbollah are mean deeply committed to striking against western targets and israeli targets. they will employ a variety of methods in order to do the bat. our study of these plots leads us to notable conclusions. first, they give high priority to hitting jewish targets in our country, and second, they want to advance ironic strategic goals in the geopolitical fear spare. >> ironic choose to strike the united states before the reasons already mentioned, new york city may present the ideal target. given the recent alleged ironic in direct plot against a foreign

diplomat here, in washington, iran's increasingly bellicose rhetoric as well as a long history of sponsoring terrorist attacks abroad, the nypd must remain vigilant to obstruct the attack. anything less would be advocating our duty to protect new york city and its residents. >> thank you, mr. silver. >> next we will have the acting director at the fbi, a position he retired from in 2006. as we mentioned before, it was the number three position in the fbi. in his 24 year career, mr. schweiker served a number of positions. he was the special agent in charge. he was special agent in charlotte, north carolina, in 2004.

in that capacity, he led the investigation of hezbollah, fundraising, and smuggling case. thank you for being here today. good morning, mr. chairman and members of the committee. thank you for inviting me to speak to the committee today on a topic that is so vital to national security. i should preface my remarks by saying that i am appearing as a u.s. citizen who was concerned, not a official spokesperson for the fbi. any opinions i give will be those of my own and not of the fbi. as assistant director of the fbi's criminal division from 2004 -- 2006 and acting criminal director, i saw first town hal terrorist organizations support terrorism around the globe. i also spent the fall of 2003 as the commander in iraq is a mission that was focused on counterterrorism matters, in that capacity i saw terrorism

firsthand and attacks against u.s. citizens, including the un bombing. i saw the total commitment displayed by these foreign fighters and g. hottest. i am here today to talk to you about a specific case about hezbollah. as you know, it is an iranian sponsored military group that was formally demonstrated designated a terrorist at organization. while al qaeda has gained attention and notoriety with a series of sensational attacks, hezbollah has quietly and strategically operated below the radar screen by avoiding overt terrorist attacks in the u.s., but nevertheless, has blood is response over the death of hundreds of u.s. citizens, including 241 u.s. marines and the bombing they experienced, during a un peacekeeping mission. they killed 17 americans. they are also responsible for the twa flight 847 hijacking that resulted in the brutal murder of our american.

there was a fugitive with a bounty on his head it was killed and 2008. they were also responsible for the murder of william buckley 2005. and they were responsible for bombing jewish targets in argentina, demonstrating a global reach. other plots are well-known. hezbollah has been referred to as the a-team because of a state sponsorship of their overseeing and the iranian government. i'm here to talk to you today about one of the best examples of how hezbollah operates in the united states. this case that i would like to talk about serves as a warning that while hezbollah terrorist organizations has been fun fundraising or activities, their sophistication, presence, and the entrenchment in american society and business has a

potential to provide a platform to supporting more lethal capabilities that should concern all americans. this case operation smokescreen was initiated in 1998 and involved a wine range of multi- agency investigations on a core group of eight members from lebanon, who along with a network of a dozen associates were involved in criminal activities. investigations proved that proceeds from their activities were forwarded to hezbollah and. the case was involving the highest-ranking hezbollah person at a time. there is now a -- sheikh was involved in an indictment in 2002. there was a prominent hezbollah leader who was in direct contact

with mohammed haveman >> this case set precedence for many future terrorism across -- prosecutions. it was noteworthy because it used criminal violations with conjunctions of statutes to preempt and neutralized characters operating on u.s. soil. initial indictment charged 25 defendants in a indictment. they were charged with cigarette smuggling, interstate transportation of stolen property, immigration fraud, bank fraud, credit card fraud, mail fraud, fraud by wire, conspiracy to provide materials to a terrorist organization, and money laundering. a total of six of the defendants were provided with prosecution of criminal abuse. because of the breathtaking

sophistication, their military training and ease of which they manipulated the u.s. system, during this indictment, one count of that indictment, over 71 overt acts were alleged in a conspiracy by three key members to provide material, financial services, mutations clinic, explosives, and physical assets to facilitate violent attacks. over 500 bank accounts were examined, over $800 million in proceeds were identified. there was a fraudulent sba loan. two men in were part of a painting business and disguises employee. >> seven individuals were

indicted for false marriages. there were multiple deportation orders, but they were uploaded through their fictitious marriages. cell numbers manufactured .-full-stop mentz, drivers licenses, social security cards, passports. scores of credit cards will obtain and ultimately busted out some of the proceeds -- >> please limit your testimony to a few seconds. >> let me wrap it up. there were many other activities that were alleged in the indictment. the indictment is a public dive in there to be read by anyone. i would encourage anyone to understand how hezbollah operates. read the march 2001 indictment. you will see some photos that we found today of them training in their training in beirut. some of them were militia members in beirut. they were in direct contact with some of the highest level figures it has blood.

with that, mr. chairman, i will rest on my statement, which will be a part of the record, i am sure. i just want to note that this was a multi- agency investigation and involved many other agencies, diplomatic security, charlotte police department, and the canadian intelligence service. >> thank you. >> witnesses, keep your statements to five minutes. your statements will be made part of the record. next we will welcome president of the spectre group international. in 2008, he retired from the u.s. dba as a system administrator and chief of operations. mr. braun had oversight responsibility for all the dea's operational programs and projects in afghanistan from 2004 through 2008. he was responsible for

significant expansion and he was the chief of staff for the inter- ministry of interior coalition. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman. thank you the state which members for the opportunity to speak with you about the growing threat of iran, hezbollah, and other related terrorist groups that pose to our homeland. quite candidly, i would rather be talking about this thread today than at some future date before a congressional oversight committee that is trying to get to the bottom of the next wave of attacks across our country, where we could potentially lose hundreds, thousands. you're going to get the per -- prospective of career narcotics

criminals on our borders throughout the midwest and as you said, congressman king, in iraq. iran, hezbollah, and the force -- special forces unit that is responsible for clandestine operations, including assassinations, pose a threat to our country. as i have said, both these groups are now heavily involved in the global trade. as a result of that activity, they have come most much closer into our neighborhoods and even closer to her doorstep. they are now operating and working in close proximity and collaborating with mexican and colombian drug trafficking cartels. not only in the western hemisphere, but other locations such as the south and west

africa. thanks to venezuela, these operatives -- both of these very threatening terrorist groups, are pouring into our neighborhood in the western hemisphere. the hezbollah forces are masters that leverage and exploit all they are worth. this has been their modus operandi for decades. if anyone thinks for a moment these groups don't recognize the strategic input importance of the infrastructure infrastructures, that the mexican implement cartels have built over the last 270 years, infrastructures that support the tons of drugs by internal aircraft, submarines, capable of moving a tons of cocaine from the north coast of cognac all the way into northern mexico, then they are simply ignorant or

naïve. that is all there is to it. there are many nasty byproducts that stem from this growing system of drugs and terror. let me tell you about one. congressman king already mentioned it. last month, general clapper testified before the senate committee on intelligence about the intel community's growing concern that iran may be capable and maybe poised at hitting us here at home. as things heat up between our two countries. a key example that he used was the iranian plot to assassinate the ambassador to the u.s. thankfully, the un oil that. >> the operative believed that the informant was a member of the ultraviolet mexican drug trafficking organization. fortunately, he wasn't.

that has been assessed by every three letter agency and are government security apparatus and was proven to be credible. that is why the d. and i used that example. can a rocket is your home? you back a canned. how they most likely do a? most assuredly they would use hezbollah and they would use their force. what really worries me is that the force controls their missile pogrom. the big question is will they be the holder of the keys to iran's future nuclear weapons arsenal? that is the same terrorist organization that made a concerted attempt to a assassinate the saudi arabian ambassador right here in the with a car bomb, of all things. not a weapon system that would be used in a surgical strike. we really need to get focused

and get down to some tough business. we need to get focused about addressing this very powerful threat posed to our nation. finally, you have done a great job since 9/11. all of you on this committee. and your predecessors, at keeping americans safe. our law enforcement and public safety personnel have done a terminus job at keeping us safe. i happen to believe, like many experts in this town, that we are involved in a war unlike any that we have ever seen before. it is a long war. unlike any other war but there comes a time when you need to make some coarse adjustments. i think that is what we are facing right now. there are some things that we need to do to shore up some gaps, and i look forward to addressing those during this hearing. thank you. >> thank you very much for your testimony. i would like to call the witness

doctor matthew levitt, director of the stein program on counterterrorism. he was the founding director in 2001. in 2005 and 2007, doctor levitt serve as assistant secretary of intelligence and analysis of the department of treasury and the state department counterterrorism adviser. prior to that, he provided strategic analytical support for counterterrorism operations of the fbi, focusing on fundraising and logistical support networks for middle eastern terrorist groups. doctor levitt, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman king, ranking member thompson, members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i have had the privilege of testifying on i wrong in force on american soil. i will focus my testimony today on the issue of iran and hezbollah. hezbollah has long leverage its

global networks for all kinds of support activities. the vast majority of these sometimes formal, often informal networks are not called upon to carry out operation, but to raise funds, picture documents, use military equipment. the long -- hezbollah has seen the united states as a cash cow. u.s. authorities feel threatened by hezbollah, while they have never carried out an attack by the united states, the fbi has reported that hezbollah subjects had passed sterling targets of the united states, and the fbi has found that such tasking appears to be a betting tool to establish individual's loyalty to hezbollah and iran. whatever the purpose, this means hezbollah surveillance has a planet can dust off at a future date if it desires. the fbi has concluded that they do have the capability to attempt to carry out attacks, should this be the desired

objective of the group. as we have heard, the plot clearly indicates that at least some iranian leaders have decided they are not crossing red lights to carry out an attack in the united states. hezbollah, however, makes its own decision-making process. they may not automatically jump to carry out an attack in the united states, even if asked to do so. recently, several intelligence officials have told me that in recent attacks come at hezbollah and iranian -- there have actually been little iranian and hezbollah cooperation. some element of competition between the two. but, to the extent that hezbollah believes the united states is involved in directly targeting or undermining the group, the potential for hezbollah attacks and interests abroad becomes more likely. it is possible that if there is confrontation, hezbollah will be

called upon and could likely to carry out an attack. but it is likely that their independent processes of indecision's. there have benny. >> hezbollah believes that the special -- which has been indicted for hezbollah operatives, one is a rather mock him a very senior individual. haslett is behind the unrest in syria. and so as i look at the hezbollah and the threat scenarios, hezbollah does have networks or they could leverage to carry out a foreign threat and attack your. it does have the ability to use people here to support individual people sent from abroad to carry out its mission and spectacular attacks. it could call upon its relationships with criminal elements to visit update an attack, finally, we could see some kind of a homegrown

extremist attacks with iran and hezbollah to carry out some kind of active resistance, as they would call it, in the event of confrontation with iran or hezbollah. according to a 1994 report, should the decision be made to strike within the u.s. borders, they have the infrastructure pressure to carry out an attack. there is a guy who was smuggled across the border in the trunk of a car. he has specialized training and weaponry, spy craft, counterintelligence. this is someone here raising money but could've done violent things that that was something he was told to do. the north carolina example is just another example, in fact, as that case was being tried, a plot was discovered where some individuals were talking about assassinating the prosecutor or blowing up the courthouse. another of the individuals indicted in the showcase was

mohamed dubuque. according to the u.s. governments, we later found out after that from u.s. officials testifying before congress, he was such a major player in the plot but they turned him down because he was too important. he was an individual who was here in canada working with the guys in charlotte. there are also people who don't do the traditional look of hezbollah. one person was an iraqi clerk in texas. hezbollah is looking for people who don't fit the traditional profile. they can also import traditional operatives -- at one point in dearborn, michigan, he was involved in an attempt to hijack an airplane. after that, he was involved to carry out a terrorist attack in

israel. he was asked by an israeli judge, did you ever tell the canadians about your involvement in terrorism? he simply said, they never ask. the fact of the matter is since 9/11 all of us, especially in the west, have known that it is much more difficult to carry out 80 terrorist attack within our boulders. borders. one of its -- and finally, you could have a situation of homegrown violent violent extremism would be deported one of the people involved in the bombing of covert towers back in saudi arabia. we believe this could -- in conclusion, i would like to suggest that hezbollah carries out an attack in the united states. but, to the extent, it believes that its interest are threatened, the likelihood grows. it has in fact. a significant number of tax abroad, including some abroad.

i thank you for the opportunity to testify before you. >> thank you, doctor levitt. we next have our witness from george washington university. from december 2092 december 2011, he was defense secretary in the middle east. he is a senior policy adviser for egypt, iran, and palestinian territory. his works have been published in foreign affairs from policy. and in the los angeles times, doctor colin kahl. you are recognized. >> thank you, chairman king, ranking member thompson, and establish members, think of it opportunity to testify today on the iranian threat in the united

states, specifically on the possible consequences of u.s. military action against iran's nuclear program. until recently, as you mentioned, i need to make clear to everybody today that i'm speaking in my individual, personal capacity, not as a representative of the menstruation. president obama has made clear that an iranian nuclear weapon is accessible, and all options, including military force, remain on the table. president obama has also made clear that he prefers a good solution and the window of opportunity to take advantage of unprecedented pressure to result in a diplomatic outcome. this is precisely the right approach. the credible threat of military action can help enable diplomacy. but we have not reached a now or never moment from military action. a diplomatic solution is preferable and more sustainable. our basis of this conclusion is based on four arguments.

i go into much greater detail in the written testimony. first, the threat is growing but not yet eminem. according to u.s. intelligence officials, it would currently take a run for months to produce sufficient weapons for a single nuclear bomb. and a least a year total to produce a device. once they decide to do so, it would take several more years to develop a nuclear warhead for a missile. although i run is developing nuclear weapons keep abilities, director clapper has testified that there is no hard evidence that they have net yet made the decisions to translate those capabilities into a bomb. moreover, he is unable to ask her weapon anytime soon. it will lower uranium stockpiles and because international atomic agency officials would detect those moves.

the iranian regime is unlikely to break out until they are able to build those weapons in secret, which could be years away. therefore, we have not reached a moment of decision for the use of military force. second, a military strike could produce significant risk. whatever the decision is made, it must be in full appreciation of the conflict. iran will likely retaliate against the u.s. with missile strikes in the gulf. an escalation of and surge in afghanistan, and harassment of international shipping. as are other speakers have noted, retaliation against the u.s. homeland can also be conceivable. however, limited retaliation can produce significant american [inaudible]. and although some believe in and i run a response, or could be escalation all sides. a u.s. strike would also produce

significant spillover risks, including much higher oil prices, the possibility of iranian and retaliation including hezbollah attacks. the prospect of american allies in the gulf. it would also further destabilize the region caught up in turmoil. third, a delay would relook and resolve on a challenge >> is american defense officials have noted, a near-term attack on the info structure would not -- not the program back a few years. it is noted that a possible israeli strike would produce similar, but with even more limited effect on the program. meanwhile, iran would likely attempt to rebuild its program in a way that is harder to attack and stop. almost certainly an attack would take out iaea inspectors and get

the regime to rebuild the structure. fourth, we still have time for diplomacy. the iranian economy is struggling under the weight of sanctions, they have signaled their ability and willingness to go back to the table. it is best for all sides to try to move forward and step up from competition. the immediate goal should be to reach an agreement to stop iran from enriching at the 19.75% level and should the 19.75 stockpile out of the country in exchange for research reactor. the arrangement should also hauled deeply buried enrichment facility near the city. this would go a long way to toward preventing a strike this year. the final argument, while respecting iranian rights and

their program under the treaty, would be more difficult to achieve in but i might military action, is the only sustainable solution. as are diplomats work with other members to find a solution to the iranian threat, i think congress needs to avoid taking steps of a necessary needs and create some options. prior to negotiation, or ruling out future enrichment, will only make a diplomatic outcome more difficult to achieve, and therefore a military confrontation were possible. with that, i will conclude to look forward to your questions, thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, colin kahl. the full testimony will be made part of the record. >> ranking member, do you have any questions?

>> [inaudible] >> i have no objection, can we start charging him rent for all the time he spends with us, given that he is from texas? given that he's he is from texas, i am sure he can accommodate. >> mr. braun, regarding iran and hezbollah and variations of that, also part of the scope of the hearing, do you believe that the will be able to leverage the existing hezbollah operations that exist in this country for terrorist operations? >> well, with the past track record, i would say yes, it is what they do.

many years ago where you find one, no matter where you go, you most assuredly find the other. i am told that the dea agents and other investigators are routinely bumping into both of these threats, it is they are focused on criminal investigations, working with counterparts and police and the tri- border of south america. certainly in west africa and north africa. their modus operandi is to identify existing licit infrastructures and exploit them for everything that they are worth. congressman king, i would say, the answer to that is absolutely yes. they would tap into it. if i could mention one other

thing, i retired from dea in late 2008. and like chris and doctor colin kahl, i don't speak for dea. i no longer speak for government. but i am a concerned citizen. what i can tell you is that i had 1 foot in and 1 foot out the door in 2008. there was a growing concern on my part that there was no doubt hezbollah had become heavily involved in global cocaine trade. moving tons of the stuff out of the region into west africa onward into europe, and honestly making hundreds of millions of dollars a year behind the activity. what concerned me most was there was clear evidence, there were signs that caused me to believe that the force of maybe managing hezbollah's illicit cocaine trafficking operations. >> baserunner d. experience, are you surprised or not surprised

on the unraveling of the pot back in october where iranians were going to use the drug can cause to carry out the assassination. >> no sir, i am not. it is something i have been preaching for a long time. i've talked with you and rational members of your staff as well as other members of this distinguished committee. i have talked with many of you over the years. i have talked with professional staff members. you'll know that i have been talking about this for a long time. growing confluence of drugs and terror, over well over half of the 50 dare at designated terrorist organizations were so designated are now involved in one or more aspects of global drug trade. it is quite honestly a byproduct of our success in prosecuting the global law on terrorism. state sponsorship has declined. it is in significantly impacting and identifying the funding for these groups from very powerful private donors.

these groups, they want to keep their movements like, are having to do other things to generate revenue. and they are turning to contraband. >> the photos that we have of the terrorists and hezbollah operatives were actually trained. was this unusual? you worked on the case. is it unusual for these operatives to be trained, or was it your impression that that was not uncommon for hezbollah operatives? >> i don't think it was anyone who was working the case who thought it was unusual. these were things that we found during searches and were later used as trial exhibits. to see them on the rooftops with ak-47s was -- we felt like an indication that we were going after a terrorist organization, not just a criminal group.

it could very quickly morph into something else. we saw that level of commitment, inspirational material, pictures of suicide bombers marching in to america to it all that was present during searches and during the trial. now, -- >> there was a statement of the number of you had with us. people of the intelligence community, they put the number in the hundreds of hezbollah operatives in this country. does anyone dispute that? is that too high, is it too low? >> i could've put an exact number on it. i do know that the 20 places that you mention only those cases where there is a direct hezbollah mentioned in the indictment. many more cases are being investigated and many more have been prosecuted where there is a nexus. it was must easier to charge criminal indictment with using intelligence information and

criminal trial. >> does that sound real to you? >> yes, i'm easily our focus is on new york city and we only see a piece of the pie, but if you can extrapolate those numbers, it certainly seems like a reasonable count. >> [inaudible] >> i would say yes, with respect to the lcd or the lebanese canadian investigation that the dea lead and work with the department of treasury on, there were over 70 used-car dealership that were used for laundering the hundreds of millions of dollars of cocaine generated revenue.

redican be exported to do things perhaps even violent things they might not otherwise have wanted to do so the numbers are more than just a number of cases. >> i recognize the ranking member. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. professor, we've seen sanctions toppled liberal governments in the past as an effective tool. one that comes to mind is south africa. how do you see sanctions play in goal in addressing iran at this point? >> well, i think it's too soon to tell. i think the issue with a sanction is they often have a nonlinear affect. that is they don't appear to be working until they do come and i think in the initial phases of sanctions against iran if they were not sufficient to get iran to fundamentally alter its

nuclear behavior but they may be approaching a to the point where by the regime is concerned about the economic damage especially in its oil sector and the possibility for the domestic unrest can be associated with fat that they may be willing to strike a deal and so i've taken some solace from the fact they are willing to come back to the negotiation and the negotiations could start and restart in a matter of weeks we need to manage our expectations without a breakthrough but i think that we could start to step away from the confrontation and sanctions have a big part to do with that. i would say one other thing. the supreme leader have a lot of incendiary things but it's one of the things the supreme leader always says is the acquisition is used in nuclear weapons would be great against this i don't know whether he believes that but it's important that he says it because what that allows is the possibility to decline down from the crisis and claim that he never wanted to pursue nuclear weapons to begin with

the retreating a narrative that will allow them to step back with a policy. beyond all the sanctions, what are some other options you think that could be on the table either presently owned or potentially in the future. >> the obama administration has been very successful in framing a whole of government approach to this. there's obviously the state department diplomatic isolation effort that's going on that's proven very successful, the treasury department and state department have worked with sanctions along with this body and we've done a lot on the military side to paris with the president says all options are on the table those options are actually on the table, and so we've put a lot in the theater in case there's a contingency with iran. and then of course there are intelligence activities and other activities going on, and i

think we still have time to pursue that spectrum approach. >> on the yield back and recognize the gentleman from california the former attorney general. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. mr. silver, i don't know if i were to take the ranking members opening statement at face value it's like we've wasted our time here because the indication was that all of you witnesses before us don't have any current information. it's all based on what you did in the past. what you said today, is that based on out of date information, or are you privy to intelligence information even now? >> yes, the information based on my testimony is life in formation, current information based on ongoing investigations

that are happening in new york city as we speak, and in general working with federal law enforcement agencies. >> we were to not just look at a snapshot in time, the 9/11 commission and criticized the united states government for not connecting the dots. aren't the botts snapshot in time and do take them together and analyze them and therefore you establish patterns and come to conclusions? >> in new york city we use the 9/11 commission study as almost a bit of a bible and we look to that to make sure that in our response of the beekeeping new york city safe we learn the lessons that have been before 9/11 coming and we have to when we see it sounded the alarm without sounding alarmist but based on the botts we are seeing

across the board with its georgia, india, bangkok and frankly washington, d.c., we are concerned we may be moving toward a point where either because of hostilities that break out or the perception of pressure on iran we may be moving forward to a likelihood of the terrorist activity in the homeland. >> my observation would be if we ignored the snapshots in time we are being derelict in our duty and doing exactly what the commission said the converse and the executive was guilty of in the past. >> a number of years ago i worked with vice president biden to get legislation passed to criminalize the operation of the semi submersibles, and now we know they have cause i submersibles, that is that actually can operate a short

debt debt to the cadet and its occurred to me while the drug cartels use that to deliver drugs and now they are large enough to actually deliver people that that would be a vehicle of opportunity for those who would wish to perhaps introduce not the drugs but weapons into the united states. has that ever occurred to you, do you think that is a legitimate concern and if in fact there is a connection between drug cartels and terrorist groups including hezbollah, all that not to be a major concern to us? >> first of all, let me thank you for the legislation. it did a great deal in helping us to get a better handle on addressing that threat and i am

not speaking from just a federal law enforcement perspective but it helped to coast guard and the navy immensely so thank you. look, it's one of those threats that i happen to still lose sleep over. these are fully submersible and able to submerge up to 100 feet for significant periods of time with eight or more tons of cocaine. they are typically and obviously that takes up a lot of space, congressman, and the contraband could be replaced with weapons in a number of things come and it's important also that the revolutionary armed forces of colombia and also a designated terrorist organization by our country, the european and several other countries are the ones that are paying for the and

utilizing paying for the manufacture of these things and then putting them into service worries me. finally, look, when in these things now are capable of making it in the north coast of colombia all the way into northern mexico, southern california is trust not much water separating that distance. it's something we should be concerned with. >> thank you for your testimony in service and i think all the witnesses. >> lady from texas ms. jackson lee. >> i think the chairman and the ranking member for holding this hearing into all the witnesses that are here. time is very short. i will try to be cryptic in my questions. this is a whole area that really requires such a depth of investigation. i have no intent to make any

statement on the work that you have done. i think we are all committed to working together to ensure the homeland is protected and i just spoke about that early this morning. what legislative initiative do you believe is most important and directing our efforts to protecting the homeland clacks >> i think in general one of the issues that has been very important as the terrorism financing issue that some of my colleagues here on the panel have spent a lot of time looking at those in and out of government. and we can construct the ability for the terrorist organization with their you are talking about al qaeda or his law or entities linked to iran with their ability to move money and get money to limit their ability to act. so i think that is one particular form of legislation. we've seen it effective on the al qaeda front, and we believe

they have a pension on the front pew >> coming from new york remember distinctly how they can to get there but i also remember the commitment to not let terrorists have us turn on ourselves. do you still believe in the basic infrastructure of the civil liberties and civil rights in the constitution even as we turn our attention to fighting terrorism? islamic i mentioned in my opening statement really all of our efforts in new york city are grounded in the law as well as u.s. constitution we realize that more allies are going to be in the diversity of new york city and the communities we have to have the ability to in sense be the eyes and years to protect something before even small enforcement may become aware of it. so much of the relationships can be strengthened, and that is something that our community makes their highest priority. that is a sense that safeguards all of us. >> thank you, mr. silver.

i want to continue that line of reasoning and i well aware of the influence of drugs, and i think to dr. you mentioned the homegrown terrorism as we speak you had evidence to the attack, the attempted attack on the saudi arabian ambassador but that what we think you for reinforcing the president's international perspective on iran that he does not adhere to the containment that iran having a nuclear weapon as an acceptable and he has not precluded any option if you will. what is important again is the nation's reinforce the that american citizens are those on the have civil liberties right and certain protections under the constitution is that still your understanding? >> they've taken an oath to uphold the constitution. i believe that as an individual.

so, there can be traced to the security and the liberty but we have to be clear to preserve our liberty because that is what we are fighting for. >> do you adhere to the words that came out soon after line 11 that we don't want terrorists to force us to terrorize ourselves. >> do you remember some paraphrasing like that? >> in general i think that we should avoid engaging in the self-fulfilling prophecies, that is in taking steps that, you know, for good intentions that nevertheless have an adverse consequences for the whole host of the values. islamic it is clear that hezbollah has a far reach. i remember their actions in lebanon and of the lebanese war, but if you could focus on the homegrown terrorism and your depth of understanding of hezbollah impact of influencing individuals that are here in the united states would be the least perceived operative is that the way they are working that they would be working with the least

perceived operative, someone who may not show themselves clear to be intending to do wrong? >> i'm not the right person -- >> he's pointing to you. >> didn't know if you're asking me or him it's to some networks criminal, but the fbi has made public the fact that hezbollah has practically also started looking for people who don't fit the mean profile, and therefore it is incumbent upon us to be aware of that as well to since hezbollah temperature people who might not be willing followers this is also the line of investigation that foreign attention. all of these efforts that have been put in place since 9/11 make it difficult for the established operatives we may already know about through the

other intelligence that we put out there and so it is to be expected whether this house block or al qaeda they are going to look for people who don't fit the profile that might normally associate with. >> i think you for your kindness and i would like to work with this committee on this matter and i would like to place on the record, mr. chairman, that i want to uphold in doing so not racial profiling and not involving labeling one group that we need to work on this issue together and i think fisherman and the ranking member and i yield back my time. >> as always appreciated. the gentleman from texas is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for holding this hearing. ever since i was a federal prosecutor working in the joint terrorism task forces, i've been concerned about the presence of hezbollah and the quds force, the influence of iran and the western hemisphere. in many ways more sophisticated than al qaeda. and you don't know what you don't know. we don't know how many of these

operatives are in the united states. certainly talking in mexico they don't really know how many operatives are in mexico. then after the plate to assassinate the saudi ambassador went down, to me that was a bit of a game changer because we always viewed hezbollah and the forces as more of a financing role and in the operation came down a very successful bust that showed the nexus between the quds force is and the drug cartels. to me this is a very dangerous cocktail. the operation was more money laundering. but the idea that they could become operational at some point in the future, working together to me is a risk. then when you look up the connection between caracas and tehran, he did a job in his tour in the western hemisphere, the

castro connection, the idea that while iran cannot deliver the nuclear missile, the idea that they could have weapons-grade uranium and bring that across the southwest border and say backpack and detonate a dirty bomb in the united states does become a more real threat. so, with that i guess mr. braun, from the dea what do you see in terms of the testimony about them potentially becoming operational, and also the potential ties between the drug cartels and the terrorist organizations? >> welcome as i said,, this man, the dni used that example as proof of his key concern in the communities, the key concern that iran may have made a kind of monumental decision and made

decided to posture themselves, prepare for an attack on the homeland as things continue to heat up and used that example to recruit what the quds force operative believed was a member of the altar of violent mexican drug trafficking cartel as the key example to drive home that concern. this is really it's proven that this witch's brew quite frankly is bubbling over in many parts of the world. you know, when most people think of the drug nexus, they immediately think of latin america, but let me be perfectly clear to grow, and as the mexican and the colombian

cartels and bark and some other operatives into west africa and north africa to establish the shipment infrastructure needed to move tons of those drugs they are routinely coming at a very loose contact as al qaeda who have the same money, the same turf and the same dollars. it is a nightmare scenario and the point being that if anyone thinks for a moment that hezbollah and the quds force to the masters at leveraging and exporting the existing illicit infrastructures globally are not going to focus on our southwest border and use that as perhaps a spring board in attacking our country than the gistel to understand how the war under world works. >> my time is limited, but we sent a letter to the president calling for the significant

cover in iran, cyber and also the designation in the force as a foreign terrorist organization i was surprised given the bombings of the marines in beirut and buenos aires, the jewish community center that they are not on the foreign terrorist organizations list. and i introduced the bill this morning along with the chairman's support to do just that. would that be helpful in terms of getting us more authority to go after the quds force is in the united states? >> i think it would, but even more importantly, it makes them a target and our nation's security resources and apparatus understand they are a designated foreign terrorist organization, and it just naturally causes them to focus more heavily on that threat. that designation means a great

deal. islamic mr. higgins is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. first, let me say i was proud to join my colleague jeff duncan to introduce h.r. 3783, the counter in iran and the western hemisphere act which i am pleased to say was marked up and passed in the foreign affairs committee earlier this month. the legislation would call for the state department to investigate hezbollah's presence in the western hemisphere and create a long-term comprehensive strategy for keeping our communities and in our nation safe. the purpose of this legislation were the inspiration came from hearings in this committee where expert witnesses have informed our committee that hezbollah has a presence in the country region in latin america but also in 15

american cities as well as canadian cities. we were also told in the subsequent testimony that we shouldn't be all that concerned about that presents because the presence was their activities limited to fund-raising. well, that is not comforting and i think where there is a presence and there's a threat. we all know hezbollah is a terror organization that commit to the violent jihad and act as a proxy for venezuela, for syria and iran, and the presence in latin america could also be viewed as a pervasive presence towards the goal of having a greater presence in north america. i also want to recognize the work of the new york city police department following the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, the new york city

police department is establishing itself as probably the most effective counterterrorism organization in the world. it's a difficult balance between keeping the homeland safe and protecting individual liberty but the thing they've done a very good job in that regard. i would just like to hear from our witnesses about modeling the presence of hezbollah and the western hemisphere but specifically the threat in north america by the presence. >> thank you comer representative to really think the dynamic that we heard about and north carolina with a cigarette case we have individuals conducting similar activities that criminal activity was funding the hezbollah operations or activities overseas by visions visions to lebanon. you had a population of people who were fund-raisers but at some point in time could be turned into facilitators and ultimately offered of this and the fact that some of these and

the judge will set military training that they had received from hezbollah and lebanon. i think all of the dynamics you heard about in that case are dynamics that meant well to the current situation in new york city, and without going into the details about the investigations that we have going on, they are very much in parallel to what you're seeing in terms of the type of people, the type of background and the type of activities that are going on. >> i think what is noteworthy about that case and its an indication of how hezbollah operates throughout the u.s. is they are burrowed deep into our society already. they've been a lot longer than al qaeda and al-shabaab and the other shining object or concentrating on now, and i think we need to understand -- the understand how to use our financial system and have an sba false loan and the bride the loan officer. the credit cards, they understood the financial system how to exploit the immigration

system so they are well entrenched in society and well positioned to do something or facilitate someone else coming in and doing something and blending in they can manufacture documents. it's all there and it's all in place. they don't have to make it happen. it's all pretty well in place. the good news is there's 104 joint terrorism task forces across the country and the field intelligence groups and you've got a new preventive mind set out there instead of reacting to what's going on. i think the intelligence community and the fbi and the nypd agencies are now they're shaking the tree and we are well-positioned to know what they are doing. >> michael chertoff said he was the secretary of the homeland security, and set me has been before this committee, as he had 1 foot in the door and 1 foot about four years ago testified about the threat posed by

terrorist organizations on the united states and the then secretary chertoff said we need to maintain the focus on al qaeda, a very shining object and a real threat, but he said the real threat is hezbollah. hezbollah has with al qaeda could only dream of having. they have established relationships with the most powerful international joint trafficking and organized crime syndicates it faced by law enforcement, and they obviously maintain close relations with other is a committed terrorist organizations around the globe. whoever told you hezbollah is now 15 cities and think they woefully underestimated. part of the problem that we've got is we don't really know and that is what worries me a great deal. congressmen lungren, you brought out the importance of connecting the dots.

that is important but what we need to get the business of is actually producing more dots to come back to. i think that nypd is doing that in the rules all that's extremely important. quite frankly i think the federal law enforcement could learn a great deal from the nypd model. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >> thank you very much and i'd like to thank the chair for having what i consider very important eliminating discussions. mr. braun, you said some of the things being a parent is hezbollah is entrenched and organized much different than a lot of the other agencies or characters that we've seen in the past would you agree to that statement? >> absolutely. highly sophisticated organization on the operational structures.

>> it's interesting in our prepared testimony you said in the context of this hearing it's important that we remember that the quds force is also responsible for the iran strategic missile program and many experts believe they will be holding the key to the country nuclear weapon program if it makes it off the ground. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> if it reports directly to iran's supreme spiritual leader is that correct? but i'm not an expert but that is understanding, yes, sir. >> could you comment on that? >> yes, the report up through the irg see the revolutionary guard to the supreme leader and the head of the quds force still remaining is a close confidante. >> also in your testimony you mentioned in regards to sanctions the difference in my opinion is it is much different from having sanctions towards a

politically based country verses and ideology based country. would you agree to that? >> i guess it depends on what you mean. if it speaks to whether iran is a rational to make a calculation in the face of these pressures i think the conclusion of the intelligence community as well as the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff at former chief of al asad is they are sufficiently rational and sufficiently strategic to be able to make the calculations of the threat regime. when they are at risk the sanctions are rising to the level that they could force the regime to back down. >> what hezbollah be considered a rational actor? >> actually i think that you see hezbollah and israel and others trying to kill a bit of activity. the iranian students, too.

a day use the force in the form of subversion, terrorism, but they try to calibrate their attacks to a level below that which would generate and massive retaliation. in fact in 2006 hezbollah probably miscalculated when they could not to the soldiers into the war and dillinger listen to that and i would say one thing. i think there's been a lot of talk about the possibility that if the force controls the nuclear program and its ties with hezbollah or the drug cartels that they would somehow pass a nuclear device or a logical device they would find their way into the homeland you can never say never, but would be very, very unusual because the regime in tehran is not suicidal and would know that doing that would generate massive retaliation and it's worth noting that kuran already has weapons of mass destruction chemical weapons. they've never passed the weapons to hezbollah for precisely the reason that the to to cover their activities below the level they think would generate massive retaliation to the

nuclear terrorism is very unlikely. >> the was one of my concerns actually. could you give me a definition of what a dirty bomb is? >> we are looking at an explosive device that entails the utilization of some type of radioactive material to be a full-blown nuclear weapon but the retial act is materialism included in the explosive device might render certain areas on little bo for period of time. >> possibly up to a year. estimate possibly up to a year or even longer. >> so we have, mr. speed, you said that we have identified that hezbollah has routes with the established routes into the united states. would that be a correct statement? >> that would be a correct statement. >> understanding the nuclear

capability, low-level radiation that would have to the nuclear material that would be needed for a dirty dom could pretty easily be transported for those routes would i agree to that? >> welcome a congressman, there are hundreds of tons of narcotics that take up large spaces in the border every single year, so a dirty bomb or any other weapon of mass destruction i don't believe will be all that difficult. if i could say one thing i wasn't trying to imply that i felt the force would do that. with that said, never say never just as the doctor said. what concerns me is the same organization the quds force that now holds the key to the strategic missile program may well be holding the key to iran's nuclear weapons arsenal at some point in the future. that same organization that was

responsible for trying to hash this crazy plot to assassinate the saudi arabian ambassador right here on the u.s. soil. that's what we need to be concerned about. these guys obviously are not at least always acting with the sound mind and sound purpose. estimate your plant was well taken and understand that is what my question was about, rationality of the threat. my time is expired and i yield back. >> the gentle lady from new york is recognized for five minutes. i appreciate the broad view of north america beyond ausley represent the order of canada in buffalo and we have for border crossings and threats we've had problems in our area and i want to know whether there is an over all the impression of the collaboration that is going on between the u.s. and canada with respect to the presence to get

in toronto and to have a good grasp of what is going on in toronto. as much as i love new york city, mr. chairman, it takes me eight hours to drive from buffalo to new york city from my district and about an hour to get to toronto so even though it is a foreign country it is closer and the threat is right there and could affect the people in my region as well so i just want to know the collaboration and the government to protect the northern border and what is going on in toronto. the thesis is in canada has declared hezbollah the number one threat they're very much on top of what has always dillinger we've relied heavily on their version of the material for our prosecution they have excellent evidence that they've been all over this jury same group. so i think that they are very much on top of hezbollah and the threat with hezbollah there's

regular contact with them and our domestic intelligence services and of course the agency. so i don't think there's any doubt that canada is very much attuned to the threat posed by hezbollah and the border crossings. but as mike pointed out, the likin the border in the southwest border. there's no doubt about that, that's for most of the drugs are going to cross with of a well-established routes, and there are well established tradecraft concealments we can go through a whole hearing about how well they can hire the material in the southwest border. >> i'm very attuned to the intention we've given and southwest border and its deserved and that we neglect -- we had the case in my community those people in canada they walked in and got the driver's license and they did what they did so that's why i'm concern us

all. these are u.s. citizens have collaborated with people in canada as also does a lot involved even in our popular world and the southwest border needs protection i want to make sure that we have the adequate resources on the northern border because -- and we have great relationships with canada but i want to make sure that that is a high priority of the government as well. >> if i can add, the canadians are great and we have done wonderful things and cooperations, but when i was last before the committee i mentioned vision to the commission a book and we had an opportunity not only to interview the u.s. law enforcement but many ford and law enforcement intelligence agencies as well especially canada. on both sides of the border people told me their concern about the the but even today for the hezbollah operatives to be about to cross the border and again i point you to the example in my testimony. he was involved in hezbollah hijacking before he became to canada. he was involved in the activity

after canada at one point he was living in dearborn and spoke to u.s. official is in different communities along the northern border. several of whom expressed their concern which perhaps in the event that has blog decided to carry in a check individual might not be someone in the united states but someone just across the border who could come across with documents either forged or e illegally obtained but otherwise accurate and dues of things but the good news is people on both sides of the border are very attuned to this. cooperation is really very good. and that has been a lot to minimize the threat. >> the pentagon has proposed cuts to my district right along the border of canada. would you agree with this threat that exists in canada and the homeland that tries to make sense to keep the military presence strong on that border the? >> honestly think it is apples and oranges.

i don't know that the if anything to do with border security. i don't know. maybe it does. well i would want to make sure is the people involved in the border security border patrol have a strong presence. but that may not have anything to do if this issue. i don't know. >> if i could quickly something, before i was transferred back to the headquarters i served as the special agent in charge of the detroit field division for the dea and i can tell you that in those days the dea, the fbi, i.c.e. come all agencies shares relation of the counterparts and that continues to this day. what concerns us about the northern border is our obsession with the line which has been the southwest border. we need to focus on shoring up

the northern border and then going even further south into latin america as far as that border is concerned. if you look at just the simple geographical the enormity of the northern border, twice the size of the southern border, if you look at the border patrol's resources on the northern border versus the selzer border, i mean, there are areas where folks could cross by the thousands and no one would ever know it. that is what concerns me that the northern border to the estimate i agree 100%. islamic the gentlelady yields back to the estimate the gentleman from south carolina is recognized. >> thank you mr. chairman for your willingness to hold this hearing on the panel. i think you've done a fabulous job along with this congress and going back for the last year. really clearly showing that there is a involvement of the sirenians specifically the quds force and a proxy in hezbollah

in this hemisphere, and others in the world are starting to take notice. there was an article and i reference the center for the lessons learned that the general daily i believe is testified before congress. the curious than is that this interest in the hemisphere represents, and this article is entitled what are the persian string of for here. is to make this interest in the hemisphere represents the first time in the 5,000 year history of persia as an entity that such has been demonstrated. there is no affinity between the mark or iran and the countries on this side of the atlantic historical cultural political, economic or otherwise. nevertheless as we shall see the last few years have seen a totally unprecedented level in the region and that clearly sums up the question they were talking about today. i want to thank mr. higgins for

referencing the bill h.r. 3783 by sponsored the bipartisan bill that passed out of the house foreign affairs committee headed to the floor for a vote members of this committee will have an opportunity to bring some of the lessons learned from this panel to the floor to pass this bill out and focus on the iranian threat and with the united states can do to counter that. when i sit others are beginning to notice this threat the reference documentary which basically pointed out a lot of the things that the armenians are involved in and in fact the cyber terrorism threat using the of venezuela in miami and resulting the removal of one lady from venezuela there was an article today in jerusalem post that talks about why congress suddenly cares about iran, the french and latin america. that was just today in jerusalem , so the threat is real.

the question i have, we have identified and we are all on the same page reply as the witnesses and i will start with mr. braun what can the united states and this congress do going forward? >> great question. three things. what we need is interlocking narcotics and counterterrorism strategies and as the bad guys have come together, agencies and institutions in this town better focus on the counternarcotics or counterterrorism larger and further. we need interlocking strategies, and we need cingular funding streams because as you know, congressman, that is what drives agencies and their strategies. the second thing i would say is the need to develop the focus more on the defense in that strategy. we've been singularly focused on defending the 1 yard line, the

southwest border. and i'm not saying we didn't need to beef things up after line 11. we certainly did. the former athlete it's a strategy doomed. right after line 1160% of all of the dna detection and monitoring assets in latin america went away and were sent to other parts of the world rightfully so. but most of the resources occasionally on a daily or weekly basis may filter back in but suddenly they are gone again. we lost to much capacity in our neighborhood to keep things in check, and we need to do a better job at doing those things, then i would finally say, you know, we need to refocus on confronting or

refocus on the traditional organized criminal types of activities drugs, money laundering, arms trafficking, human trafficking. we need our federal agents and federal law enforcement personnel coming head-on into these threats because naturally, they will if they are engaged in that kind of activity. they will become either directly or indirectly in contact with very powerful trigger was organization opportunities and terrorists but are in our neighborhood. and let me remind you that that's exactly what happened. that's how the plot was spoiled against the assassination of plot against the saudi arabian ambassador. there was a dea informant and the handlers that her focus on drugs and money that brought him into contact with the operative that was correcting or that was

communicating back with the forces. as the mckinney to be focused on the traditional threats. estimate the time of the gentleman has expired. >> thank you. >> from california. >> thank you too chairman. this has been a great hearing and i have to step away to actually meet with some port officials who are here this week with -- they are having a conference in the country and my questions are -- and just going to throw three questions of and then maybe you can all decide who would like to answer. number one is what keeps me about life is our ports, and what i believe is a lack of attention from homeland security

on securing our ports. wondering if you can comment on that when he talks about dirty bombs. we by the way are scanning less than 3% of our containers that come to the country through the various parts. how easy would be for the terrorist organization to infiltrate our homeland through the port? why would like to hear what you have to say about it. also, talking about connecting the dots, and talking about how one of the plots was connecting the dots and i know we are making tough choices that year in spending cuts and funding opportunities going forward. we had a committee hearing i guess it was last month on the fusion centers and how important

those are throughout the various cities and connecting the dots. from my perspective los angeles and the l.a.p.d.. how much are you -- or our organizations talking to our local law enforcement on the ground? so come and speak to the funding cuts that we've already proposed in terms of how does that affect the programs going forward if someone could speak about whether or not the port security is kind of a hole in all the separation. the everything i was thinking about these guys getting sba loans, which is amazing to me because one of the things i hear from my small businesses how difficult it is to access the loans and the amount of paperwork they have to go through and the collateral they have to put up that is one of the biggest concerns for my small business is their inability to access a small business loan.

are we sharing of these kinds of concerns with our small business administration on the ground in the different cities where the loans are being processed? is this information that we are sharing with the proper administration and the federal government? >> can i take a quick shot at that one back to the question what else can be done. one of the issues with my nell irvin is the compartmentalization of information and the failure to connect the dots and every withholding their information close. but i think the congress can do is break down those walls and continue to break down the walls and facilitate the use of technology the banks and insurance companies and the private sector are using the information every day to gather information for the marketing purposes there's no reason we can't break down the walls of data in the government and make matches and a link of

information and connect the dots and also making sure that the law enforcement and intelligence community have the tools. technology is moving fast and a fee of devotee to stay up with interception and that sort of thing needs to keep up with of a technology that's out there and i think the intelligence community struggles with fat. so making sure the to the right tools breaking down the walls of information are very important things to keep in mind. estimate i will just add a decent amount of time in california not only the l.a.p.d. and sheriff's department but the fbi come on long beach and also in terms of the reports i'm very impressed with of the work they're doing. there is an issue in the parts and the 1 yard line and excellent efforts being done by dhs in support of the bureau on trying to deal with their issue is not only when they get into

our country but in terms of risk analysis and in terms of that i have to say i've been tremendously impressed specifically in southern california and elsewhere as well by the work of a fusion center located at the sheriff's department but almost every time i'm there i see people from fbi better detailed but they're looking to get all the time and i think that it is a world of difference from when i was working at the fbi just through 9/11. >> quickly, the ports. i think they pose a significant risk. as you said, less than 3% of all the containers so how do you counter that? i would go back to the in debt strategy could those are all emanating from other parts of the world. we need a defensive in that strategy and more resources abroad to identify these threats and develop the intelligence and then make sure that it's shared

where it should be with respect to the fusion centers they are great. the only concern that i've got is that so many of these are regional in scope so those that are utilizing the have a regional snapshot of what's happening in the region. but we have got to get better at connecting the fusion centers so that, you know, so that those who are using them can need them most and see the most accurate picture snapshot that they possibly can. >> of the time is expired and i think you all for the work of the committee and recognize the gentleman from missouri for five minutes. >> thank you mr. treen and all the witnesses for being here today. i would like to ask you getting the geographical obstacle and logistical concerns is israel even capable in the facilities by themselves?

>> they are capable. it depends on what the target is that they would likely have to go out and in the enrichment facility and the conversion facility and likely a number of other places. they would need dozens of aircraft to be able to fly a dozen miles of the targets. the of the military capability to do it. that said they don't have the military capability i don't assess to set a broken back very far. they can get to the target's chicken drop bombs on the target but the u.s. officials have consistently said that they think that israel can take the program back one to three years and the lower end of the estimate seems more likely to me. >> that brings up my next question. how many years has it taken iran to get to this point in its development? the mcminn nuclear program started under the shawl, so it's been multiple decades since the

1970's. >> so it's taken 40 years to get to this point? >> the counter proliferation effort both in the previous administration and this administration slowed them down. it continued to make progress that's struggling, but they continue to be slowed down as well. >> and an attack carried out by iran, i mean why is rell will lease at the program but one or three years in your estimation? >> and i think the lower end of the estimate is more likely. >> okay. what does it take to -- what do they need to do to develop a nuclear weapon? >> welcome there are several major components. >> right. what are they? >> the weapons-grade uranium above 90%. so for the have enriched the stockpiles sufficient about four bombs were found that they fully enriched to 3.5%, and then they have also a smaller stockpile of 20%.

>> 3.5% and at what level? >> they have enriched several tons of low-enriched uranium at the 3.5% level which is the reactor fuel level. they've also enriched a certain amount of 20% uranium for the tebeau research reactor to go into weapons-grade they would have to enrich the existing stockpile of 90% which according to the independent estimates would take him somewhere in the neighborhood of 46 -- four to six months but if they try to do it they have to do it at inspection which means they get caught. the first component is weapons-grade uranium and the second component is that they would have to have weapons design and have done all the various experiments and manufacturing directly construct even the crew device, then they would have to figure out a way to deliver that within, which is why you have an estimate of about a year total from the decision to be able to generate

and put on a missile to reduce the mexican have to have the delivery system. >> you have to have the weapons-grade uranium and you have to have the weapons design, and you actually assemble it and deliver the system. islamic the system or not right? to make it depends if they are going to do an implosion device to be put on the tip of a missile. if they do a device like dhaka weapons we deployed in world war ii they might not. simic in your testimony you say, and i quote, i believe, meanwhile, in the aftermath of a strike, iran is likely to rush to rebuild its nuclear program in a way that is harder to detect and costly to stop. what do you mean by harder to detect cracks if they are not doing that at this point. >> the reason that iran remains a party to the non-proliferation

treaty and will they are not always cooperative they do regular inspections to their declared facilities which means currently it's actually difficult for iran to breakout and developing a nuclear weapon without getting caught. the concerns some have expressed is that in the aftermath of the strike for example which is the scenario that you mentioned, iran would likely use the strike to shadow the international consensus that is currently isolating it and kick out the iaea inspectors which means the community would have a lot more difficulty seeing what iran was doing and iran have an easier time reconstituting its program in secret. estimates are they getting full access now? >> they have full access to the declared communities. we don't know, but they get full access to the declared facilities and the hour chongging to get that with limited success to some of the facilities that might be related to the weapons research and the facility is one example of that. >> my time is expired and if i had any time to yield back, i

would. >> i think the gentleman for yielding back the time he doesn't have the appreciation of thought. the gentleman from louisiana is recognized. >> first of all, let me thank you for coming and sharing your knowledge with us and your experience and recommendations for how we move forward. i guess part of my question, and mr. braun who have recommendations, do you know if the recommendations you gave are currently being carried out or if the dea and cia and fbi and atf or for example refocusing on the traditional crafts and paying more attention to the drug trafficking?

>> one thing you have to recognize and what we talked about this morning is the convergence of collectivity and terrorist activities. terrorists need money and raise money mostly through criminal action these days. as we talk about antimoney technology and breaking down the silo of information i think all of those are under way and can always get better. whenever you have agencies you have walls and it's easy to share information across anything that facilitates the sharing information as good and the fusion centers are good, the joint terrorism task forces are good. staying on top of the current, more current techniques. that works in the days that we had the wall of and you couldn't share information between criminal and intelligence, so i think it is infinitely better than it was on my 11 but it's not perfect. i think what you've done with

hassling the to passing the legislation i know it's a bad word in some circles but has been tremendously valuable in updating these techniques. >> i guess that this xm ackley what i was looking for and i think the ranking members point with that was that it would be very helpful to have current members of the administration here to save their eating those recommendations or how far they are on compartmentalizing were focusing on the traditional threats. you mentioned that hezbollah sometimes will resort to extortions to get things done. there are some who advocate for profiling in our tsa for a simple and in a reverse manner of maybe not searching through the elderly women and doing pat downs on