senator enough times to get his questions in and enough time for you to have a few moments. thank you. >> thank you coming up this evening, next a discussion with an antiwar advocate, bill donohue. then the military commander in america, on u.s. efforts to suppress organized crime and cocaine drug trafficking in the region. and later, a stockholm peace research institute post a discussion on the new report about international arms transfers and the impact on global security.

postcode phil donahue is a former tv talk show host, also acted as underwear funds. thank you for coming to c-span. tell us about your film, "body of war." >> guest: well, and that the subject of this film at walter reid. thomas young is a kansas city.

kid i want to say about not to call them a kid. he was in iraq for two days and the bullet came through his timing and outcome in the back of the track on the main street, sadr city, fish in a barrel, no top to the track in the bullet exited g4, which anatomist that was between the shoulder blades. that he was paralyzed from the down. thomas can't cross. he sustains tract infections, nausea every morning, 20 some thing time of life in the tent. you know, what is the sacrifice? i saw this young man laying a bet at walter reid. and he was whacked out on morphine and his mother explained his injuries. i think people should see this and i nominated myself and that is the result. this is over almost five years of berkshire and it was an experience that all of us will

never forget. we've never been this close to what is truly catastrophic injury that turns the whole family upside down on her point that we wanted to make a ferret thousands in this country just like this and we never saw the pain. we don't know about them. we argued that if you're going to send your young people to war, showed the pain. the president said you can't take pictures in the hall press corps said okay. there was no pushback. it makes it easier to conduct to, easier to call another one. people don't know the sacrifice people are making. we are going to have another war. >> host: phil donahue is one of the producers at the film festival to several standing ovations and acclaimed and won the best documentary from the national way review and was honored for best documentary from the producers caleb. so you are taking a casket great

bang for the iraq war was starting. do you feel like you've been proven right because public opinion has changed so much? >> guest: you know, if i improve and read it out or have someone else saying that. we have over 4000 young men and women dead because of this massive blunder. and there was a writer on does not make any difference now and i don't think much of that for -- no good being has ever resulted from i told you so. so i'm keeping my mouth shut. i made no sacrifice at all of the people who thought this would make the sacrifice. postcodes get right to the phone. steve is a democratic caller in illinois. good morning. >> yes, good morning. first of all, the second superpower in the world, russia went into afghanistan and left

with their tails between their legs. i believe in the 1980s and the united states as a whole should've taken a look at russia and see how many lives they lost in a useless war. these tribal countries have religious right stating that thousands of years. and many of the nation are killing our youths and destroying our youths. we have so many naval bases. we have so many air force bases and our whole world and around the world away or debating massive countries and destroying lives. >> you speak for me call her. i have nothing that could possibly be added to what you say. i admire your wisdom and it is another testament i think to

c-span. this is the voice up from the people and we don't hear it often enough. >> host: yesterday the commander in afghanistan, general john allen testified before the services committee. let's listen to the relationship between the united states and the afghanistan, hamid karzai. >> what can you tell us about where we stand with regard to the president of afghanistan? >> senator, you have put your finger on the issue that there is frustration with these events in these events in many respects have struck a blow at the core of the relationship and president karzai has to be able to speak to the afghan people about putting our relationship in the context of a long-term relationship of afghanistan. so i understand his frustration

and i understand that he was just one event, he would have a particular view on it. but we have several offensively. the, the brain of religious material to include the quran, the shootings and posh way and in the aggregate, those are significant events. but i believe he is committed to a relationship to the united states. he was very clear in a strategic in a teleconference in which i was then attendance with ambassador with the president. he was very clear in his commitment to a strategic partnership. but these incidents cannot be ignored. >> afghanistan commanding general john allen testified in capitol hill yesterday. phil donahue, what is our responsibility to the people of afghanistan? not taken that the leadership or

even hamid karzai that the women who could be educated, the children, is there a risk of getting out and having things fall apart even worse? >> and we don't get out, will have more dead americans. it is america's choice. you can have any foreign policy you want. you could have been a country you want. you can have a country that puts people in cages for five, six years. no red cross seeker waterboarding, no abs. you can have this kind of country. we have so much to offer. this is a great country. instead of sharing, instead of reaching out, we are lashing out. and we are never, ever -- we've become the thing we hate. we are dropping bombs on crowded cities at night were old people and children are sleeping and we think we are going to get down the rest of our life.

turning upside -- turn it reverse. imagine somebody coming in with an unmanned aerial vehicle. where is the valor here? you've got you got a man in a cape somewhere in suburban washington and nevada sits there with a joystick, looking at tv monitor. there they are. but we are killing children. and this is on obama's watch. we have to get rid of the droves. the drills will be banned. and sooner or later it will happen and i want my president to make the first call on it. poster riches in fairfax, virginia. republican caller. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. i've been thinking about this for a while. i spent 20 years in the marine corps and the business of sending the poor to worry when i was in the marine corps is a dead casualty officer and on four different occasions told

them her child was dead with ever see them again. so i come from not background. so the problem i have is we have 1% for the poor and the lower middle class doing the dirty work for the country. and not only a republican. we have a presidential candidate, mr. romney who has five stars. one was not join the circus and i don't know whether that is because of their religion or because of their father or what, but we've got to get away from this business of letting the people who are looking for a job or trade or way out of something better for the life after they graduate high school to do all the dirty work for us. what we have these realities, tv shows, but why don't we have a reality tv show that shows what

the are doing him a families are going through that they are there doing this bad stuff for us. so mr. donohue, keep doing what you're doing. c-span, maybe you could have if you could have military generals. military generals say they don't want a draft, but their part in parcel and that really needs to be addressed and you would see a lot less of young kids going off. this is the reality. this is the heart of. no office occurred to me. and we won of prices. to run a short short list for an oscar, thank you very much. we sold the popcorn. this is not a taker girl to the movie, movie.

it is brass and it is up close. i had charlie dashiell at washington monthly. charlie peter is on the donahue show many years ago saying what should we do how she do. he looked daughter and said first of all, draft the rich. and the audience went -- it is what everybody thinks. but nobody says it. and on the seat is not current because we have no draft right now. but it's correct. wars are fought by people who are jobless. i heard a guy thing we'd go to vietnam because he loved america. we are to vietnam because he wanted to get out of town. these are the realities that we seem to be talking to ourselves in many ways. you know, democracy, democracy. , less than half of us though.

one of them is wealthy people here in the states, very comfortable and air-conditioned homes, telling us how wonderful the troops are. and it is late it doesn't have any meeting. the troops come home and the va doesn't call them back. where he washed. >> host: twitter wonders if you think the mainstream media is avoiding discussing congressman ron paul's. to think it's kind attention? >> guest: the truth is that ron paul who i could not vote for this going to happen i'd love to take them to dinner, but

i could not vote for them. i think he has a very distracting history, but he is the only candidate speaking out on this issue. we have people telling us why are we going to all of these? do you imagine that romney say not? they don't say because they believe to make the point is to be politically fatal, that you can't survive not supporting a war. this is another reason that war is so easy to get into. six minutes again, 60 years to get out, which is why it out on the trail is something for norman solomon running for congress for the north coast of california and am pleased to have this opportunity to say

that i think norman solomon is not right on the issues. >> especially on the front of the american involvement in these wars. you have not taken the time -- or a tank to go and campaign for candidates in part because of your tv career. >> host: i had to be a version of the war. >> host: you haven't weighed in at this great the link as a candidate. >> guest: no, i was on nader's bus in 2000. and i got off of his bus in those four walls were really quite certain that we were going to elect another bush. marlo thomas.com by the way. i can't go home if i don't get these in libya, thank you very much. getting over 5 million hits a day. so i speak to her nafta region.

so, i think ron paul is a fascinating study of our political reality right now. these people out there can't even talk about what is right in front of our eyes. so how long will this go on? i don't know. >> host: norman solomon is running for congress in california. one of 11 candidates seeking to seek the coastal district in california. a wide-open race triggered by democratic lynn woolsey's decision to retire this year and looking to replace congresswoman woolsey. tell us about what he supported specifically? >> will first of all, he is the son my mother wanted to have. he is very, very agitated about things. he brings to his freshman year congress more foreign policy experience than any rookie could possibly have. he is then to afghanistan.

he has been to iraq more than one. and he is also taking no corporate tax money. imagine this. no corporate tax money. and that is tough. i mean, they have to worry about paying for alongside. and i admire him for this grassroots effort. he met many of the members of his team. he has scores of volunteers. i mean, if volunteers were the determining factor, he would elected immediately. so i'm just very, very taken by this grassroots campaign by a man who will never allow this country again to go to war without the can send to congress has mandated by because dictation. up until now, congress has said here, mr. president. here it is if you have to. and if he does and doesn't work it is able to say i thought he didn't. so it is a cya cover your self

maneuver. congress has been spineless on this issue. they don't want the job of calling the more and it's their job. as robert burch says in this film, james madison, don't give one man the power to declare war. it is too much of a temptation. the framers were great. here we are having people claiming to be americans and turning their backs on the vision of the framers. it's a quaint idea and now that we're in this world of nukes, we really can't be bothered with the bill of rights. >> host: phil donahue is a groundbreaking talk show host for decades. he's an outspoken activist against the wars in iraq and afghanistan. see for my next color, doug, democrats find. st. charles, missouri. >> caller: good morning. a great pleasure to speak to both of you.

i watch her program often. i have two questions. the first is mr. donahue, have you been to afghanistan or iraq? >> guest: no, i haven't. >> host: okay, i am a former marine. i did my floor for the quarter as they say. and i was watching when we went into afghanistan and tom perkins program mentioned this the other day that they sent out feelers to try to not have a war start. they are going to give up bin laden. they just needed some reason to do it. the bush administration refused to do that at the same way they make peace with iran. and i think that what i hear from the republican parties were marching towards another war with iran. and to me to post my mind. we've used that way too much and his multiple deployments are absolutely terrible. a nice ice cream at the

television. we could have had bin laden in bora bora, but we were given next receptors to use after the previous administration. basically job the ball and that happened after cheney's oil summit in there at dividing up the country for their oil buddies. i just don't understand how we can trade lives for profit of corporations. and that is my point to you. i don't know how much you agree, but if you'd like to discuss any of it i'd be listening. >> guest: what was your rank? >> host: i'm sorry, disconnect it. >> guest: you have to respect this young man pointed. the czar boris. i've been corrected off in. their occupations. i don't know what you want to call them. they are not worse. these military actions in both iraq and iran are not fair to

the american troops and america is waking up to that and now most of us are very anxious to bring them home. >> host: danny is an independent color in the wee cnn. good morning, danny. >> caller: good morning and good morning, mr. donahue. it's nice to speak to a man with common sense. i call them off into the station and i watch it often off in nac to very diverse attitudes towards everything. and being able to follow things have been an independent thinker, i see the truth and i see on one hand this media, the media that represent the money and interest in this country, the hard right wing suit basically let us into this. in fact, people who watch fox news said well, if you're not for us, you're against us.

they've america, whatever. i'm a decorated combat veteran in vietnam whose ancestry goes back to the founding fathers on both sides of my family. when people tell me things like that, my point is pretty people get such ideas? the truth is it does not solve any more in this media in the very format you're on right now is one of them, which could do a great service to the american people. i seek in the truth instead of seeking ratings for these weekly morally bankrupt network. >> guest: well, i'm not sure what you meant about c-span. brian will tell you, i have been as early fantasy spin they can believe c-span when i first saw it. to actually see the house and senate. you remember high school you have the squares in the bill goes to the senate after the money comes from voting in goes into reconciliation?

i mean, i shall sleep in civics class to watch this happen in life on both chambers. and then i got involved on all of those conventions, where they hang the banner on the wall? i am crazy about this stuff. this is the best reality show in town and i said that in the early 80s i may have program. to the gentleman's call, i don't know. we spent $2 billion a day on things that go boom. if you had in the va, nuclear program, added up. $2 billion a day. norman solomon taught me that and that is why i am campaigning with him. solomon for congress.com. i encourage you to visit the website. >> host: the caller who plays

the course of c-span network has concerns about other cable news shows and such, what responsibility do you have as a trailblazer in the talkshow industry, creating a community on television or people can discuss things getting hotbed and issues out into the than, as it turned into which you envision? >> guest: i used to say they are all my illegitimate children i love them equally. but we really have gone -- you know, we did our body shows, too. we had a male stripper, but i had a lot of women outside. i said we are you going to put the microphone? you have to entertain the people. and this has to be understood a thing. the point of the well of our business is the size of the audience. if you don't get an audience,

and to be parking cars next week and male strippers would get a larger audience than a guest of the donahue. bob dole was the guests. you don't see that anymore. and by the way, i had party made the point, this documentary fell off the marquee in six minutes. it's got a wheelchair. the daytime talk shows were not interested. i wanted to be onto pernell -- they don't want anything to do with wheelchair. >> host: in the documentary, till donahue talking about "body of war," thomas had a 25-year-old paralyzed from the bullets to his spine. he was a veteran of the war in iraq, to serve there for less than a week before he was shot. penny is our next call in mobile, alabama. democrats line.

are you with us? last call. walter is our next call. new bedford, massachusetts on her independent line. hi there, walter. >> caller: hi there, how are you doing? was a famously showed years ago when i was younger and status. he assisted in her living room and watch the crazy show. we couldn't even believe half of the status and now look at what we have on television now. >> host: you turned out anyway, didn't you? >> caller: ioa start that war in the country is always taken for job. i remember growing up as a kid coming up, words were always romanticizes john wayne small process. it always seemed beautiful in her road. even george bush referred to it as something romantic and heroic one time when he was talking to some troops in iraq.

but at the end of the day, i think americans need to recognize that it is loss of life, nature, promotion. everything that could go wrong could go wrong when you're dealing with war. boris that something like that movie is coming up, the bad guys go when. the good guys going to give the bad guys and then they go home. war is not like that. can you say go is go. whoever is left standing that is the winner. that is the true meaning of war. ate no heroes, a number of victory. if the guy who start the work, said a home a transkei beers and smoked a cigarette and do whatever. while just like he said the poor, young on the front lines fighting for what they think is real, what they think is true. in america think we need to start recognizing that and stop letting our politicians telling us what is important. we are at the point where anything is justified for loss of life.

>> guest: to know, this is a very stressful phone call or a man wanted to know that the iraq war, the invasion of iraq followed a brilliant strategy of fear executed by the bush white house. it was the bush white house -- the white house iraq group that created the bumper sticker, a smoking gun will become a mushroom britain i believe by michael courson, who is now an op-ed for the "washington post". and the congress, by the way you see this in my film. we weave the congressional debate, giving bush permission to invade iraq. only 23 senators voted no and the house and senate posted. many members stepped in with

read the talking points a gun smokes after it's been fired. the longer we wait, the worst he becomes, the more dangerous he becomes. john mccain said that. the longer we wait, the more dangerous -- you could feel the heartbeat of the nation begin to beat faster as the last the work continued in this president took this nation by the year and walked right into the story. the last gentleman calling is where i think more americans are kidding, right into it finally and i think it's going to be tougher to go to war. it is always easy, but it is getting tougher with each horrible mistake. >> host: our guest is the creator of the phil donahue show, one of the early talk shows to change the conversation in the way talkshows go in america. he focused on controversial issues have time to divide liberals and conservatives in to

debate his most frequent guests as ralph nader for her marquess campaign. in 2000 he's on the campaign trail for garman solomon has been a battle for congressional status rather california's second congressional district adding california's coast. one of our followers on twitter asked a couple questions now about joseph coney and whether or not you think you should be brought to justice. should the united states engage in that? to succumb to succumb to the rebel leader and head of the lord's resistance army in the ugandan guerrillas group because of the 20, 2012 video. and our twitter asks, is there a case when america should get involved? we put troops on the ground or help out? >> guest: whenever you speak about peace, you have to answer, what would you do about hitler? it's like okay, we all want peace, but hey, you've got to join the real world come amid.

i've heard this. what you want to do? just rollover? if you call for peace, you are risking the life of our nation. another reason why it is so easy to go to war. you know, we had the ability. we went to the man. i think we have the ability to affect coalitions of other nation in syria just as honorable as we are to intervene in a civil way and use disturbances. i don't take we can pour magic dust on these violent, angry collisions of people, but we certainly have the ability to promote peace. when i was on msnbc, i people from peaceful tomorrow.

these are people who lost loved ones in the towers and you can see the pain in their face and they were saying don't go kill other innocent people to avenge the death of my innocent loved ones. i've never seen moral courage like that. ending, this is a month or so after the towers collapsed. i think these are the teachers. these are the people who believe in the bill of rights and these are the people who don't think he should be looked up happy person's phone without judicial authorization. i mean, all of the bedrock features of this nation are chipped away because we've got to protect you and the american people and i you don't want us to go to work? we didn't go to war against hitler, would all be standing with swastikas. it goes on like that and they are able to talk themselves into the virtue of this idea of go in and dropping people and nobody

likes us. we are near a load in the world. it may not even be asked dropping those bombs, but they think it is. and it often is the united states dropping the bombs. so let's ban the drones. if a soldier as one just did when it went into the house and was the family away with an ak-47, that is a war crime. if they drown fires an incendiary device in the family home and kills everybody could collateral damage, all of these contradictions sooner and later become prone to the consciousness that all the people at this very who fought in war and know what it's like, but it was citizenship as well. people at home are see the absurdity of our military

foreign policy. >> host: it's good to lawrenceville, georgia on the republican find. welcome. >> caller: hello. >> guest: >> host: doer on the air with phil donahue. >> caller: this is a question to mr. donahue. what do you think about the reason we don't get out of iraq and afghanistan and also fast is because the guy raps of configuring the expense involved in getting all that equipment and tanks and armored carriers and just the places before we have to house all of our soldiers and everything over there. and if we pull out and something happens in iraq or afghanistan or iran, then we have to move it all back in again. it is the double expense on top of that. what do you say to that?

>> guest: well, i say there're too many armchair warriors in congress who can't wait to go to a war and wouldn't think of sending their kids to fight it. we are in iraq in my opinion in afghanistan, bogged down no in order to save -- in order for the military and i think civilian leaders to save space. and this film, thomas young is the subject of my film, kansas city who i is watching i hope shout out for thomas. these are the people i think you just find it very easy to call a war and send other people bear. i am not sure -- i don't think one american is worth an old man's fate and that is why we dare not.

>> host: before and during the war i believe every politician should be required to read mark twain's, the war they are. we have that here in our screen if you take a look at that. kerry is our next caller, independent in michigan. hi there, gary. >> caller: how are you quiet but does have some opinions. generally, i believe men in general have too much of arteaga and when money becomes involved, it just gets his writing heads against other countries. i believe women should actually be in charge of it because women on either side with not that their own children who did or go to be slaughtered for men's mistakes. >> guest: accrue to you. bring it on. in the blue jeans, george dubya walking out there with cheney

and rumsfeld. i mean, how about the aircraft carrier? i mean, a flight suit with that starting on the carrier? the media at home soon. we are all neocons now. we loved it. we thought it was fabulous but the president landed at an aircraft carrier and a plane piloted by someone else. and he goes strutting around, like might get caught peace to me. i mean, the worst stunt in the history of the white house. and here we are more than 4000 dead, millions and millions of refugees living in tent because coming in now, don't mess with texas. that is why we went in this thing. bush couldn't wait to go toward. cheney said to bush in a cabinet meeting about saddam hussein, are you going to take the matter

not? imagine. are you going to take the matter not? that is simple for cheney. dissent. thousands and thousands of young people from other family. are you going to take them out or not? we definitely have a macho feature of our culture. it is in our movies. it has been since i was a kid. i wanted to be john wayne. so yes, i tell you these are thoughtful calls and i shouldn't patronize anybody because it is impressive really passmark. imagine these calls now against because you were getting when bush called for example the invasion of iraq. people are changing. the nation is changing. you know, gay ranter popular in many ways.

the big gay people are popular. i don't think there's anything with calling attention. if you criticize america you don't think -- you don't like anything about america. we are the patriots. i believe in the bill of rights. if you put the bill of rights to a vote among the people that i hang out with, it would pass. i don't think you could say that, for example, certainly not in the bush administration and the national defense act, the recently passed a. we are killing other americans in another country? how long do we think we are going to get away with this? i have grandchildren. are they going to get around all their lives? does that just get on the wrong bus? i mean, this is the world we are

giving our kids. >> guest: said violent videogame makers are targeting you people with messages that war is good. a few things all part of the campaign to prepare them for war. >> guest: well, it's certainly true. i mean, i had, it looks. these pictures move, they blow up, bodies chopped in half, different world now. >> host: you mention free speech. as a former talkshow host, switching gears for a moment what you make of the conversations of rush limbaugh, the comments he made about the georgetown lawsuit, bill maher has a piece in "the new york times" this week called please stop apologizing. komar has been part of this is so because of his derogatory comments towards their appearance family. what do you think? >> guest: i think the system is working. don't shush rush. the state should not shush rush and the state should not shush

me. the fact that the sponsors have risen up, and this is a fabulous demonstration of our needs and the ability of sponsors to make their own judgment about what is good for their logo, their company and their stockholders. hooray for that. and by the way, all this has happened without any kind of state intervention. i love america. i'm proud to be an american. poster lets get curt on the conversation. an independent color. good morning. >> guest: good morning >> caller: good morning. i'm a veteran of the cold war 72-year-old american veteran of the cold war. we haven't fought a war since world war ii. world war ii and the eastern theater against germany was one by total annihilation and total

destruction. japan, same thing. but we have now as congress is declaring war when they don't mean more. war is. and that is my definition. you have to go and then you have to be able to totally destroy the other side. if they don't want our people to go to war, tell congress to declare war. declaring the kind of work groups. have a wonderful day. god bless america. >> host: arcola shih said on twitter that the ugly truth behind war, war is murder and sometimes increases opinion at necessary but still murder. >> guest: i still agree. you have to say it's necessary. if you don't say it's necessary, you know, it doesn't really understand the reality of geopolitics.

i mean, they will knock you down. whichever way you go if you criticize the war, they need to support the president and how can you undermine the troops late this? these young people going to war and you are home criticizing it. we need the most come you have to shut up and sing. and i am arguing and millions of other people agree with me, if you cannot speak out against the war and you've got thousands of people down through the years who have fought to defend our way of life on the center which is free speech, and if you're not allowed to speak, stop sending these people to their death. we'll find india mussolini and humid decisions behind closed doors and we will also live. it is a two s. what kind of country want. >> host: our guest is creator post of the phil donahue show. he is now riddick is the worse

in iraq and afghanistan talking today about a new film, body of war by ellen spiro and phil donahue at the toronto international film festival and went as documented from the national board of review. it was released theatrically through landmark theaters. >> host: >> guest: no distributor would take ourselves. it said we weave out. i never made a movie before. in this will put you in a theater and see how you do. so i would appear with alan and we would do q&a after the opening in chicago, seattle, all over the place. and the place to be jammed. in the next night there would be seven people in the theater. we didn't have the budget. this was another pocket investment, which i would do again. this is a chapter of life. none of us in the film will ever forget the experience.

but alas we did a commercial ahead. blue plate but library. we were asked to -- we show the film in several venues. the commercials. by the way, theatrical distribution is a lot more honest than, for example, the opportunity i had msnbc. in a network, a vice president in the morning while he is shaping can cancel you for political reason come up for any reason. maybe his wife doesn't like you or her husband like you. and theatrical distribution is different. if you don't put fannie's senate seat, they down. they take you off the marquee. who can blame them for that? about free enterprise. >> host: thomas young, 20 federal veteran of iraq was

paralyzed from the lord to his spine after just a week. less than a week of service in iraq. thank you so much for being with us. >> guest: to become a thank you savanna mac be similar whether talks about charges against staff sergeant

>> when we put that forced together to go to desert storm ip at everyone of those youngsters at baja i had a personal responsibility for. and as general schwarzkopf felt the same way. we knew they were going into a very dangerous conflict, perhaps that we wanted to give them every benefit that would allow them to come home safely. i am as distressed, more distressed than any of this committee could ever be that there are veterans who are suffering illnesses that may have been a result of their service in the polls. i do not know if this illnesses are a result of the service in

the gulf or not, but i think we have to keep that as an operating hypothesis until we find out otherwise. we have to get to the bottom to find out what the sources are >> genetic scientist who finally nailed down a rest day for an hiv epidemic starts describes tinderbox is that bonds. in most parts of the world there's not that much hiv and yet in some places there is a time and it's incredibly good. so understanding these two categories exists allows you to think, okay, what are the factors that keep the virus moving in what can we do as the world to and it

>> host: general douglas fraser in central and south america was the featured speaker friday at an event hosted by the woodrow wilson center for scholars in washington. the four-star air force general spoke about u.s. efforts to support transnational organized crime and drug trafficking in central america. for reagan member of the house intelligence committee jane harman gave the introduction. this is an hour and 10 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning and welcome. and jane harman, the wilson center's president and ceo. thank you for joining us for this important forum to ask him in the u.s. for south console encountering transnational organized crime and improving central america. citizen insecurity poses an ongoing latin america.

latin america's crime rates are astonishing and the homicide rate in a crisis they contain only traps, returning for comprehensive reform and public demand for mini action come usually mean the kind of police type takes parking back to a process for the pre-1986 tatar ships, not a good response. the centers latin america program fosters comparative research and dialogue among scholars and policymakers from throughout the americas in order to address citizen insecurity. the program also focuses special attention on the changing sub regional dynamics of organized crime and the recently released two separate publications. first, organized crime in central america the northern triangle and second, the rebellion of criminal networks, organized crime in latin america and the dynamics of change.

as a member of congress for 105 years, that is what it felt like, it was actually only nine terms, i visited latin america on numerous occasions, especially to assess the terror threat. but i have seen the disastrous effects on countries like colombia, where our guests a game spent some of his school years and focus out. am i right? gas progress has been made, there is still a long way to go. as one who served on all of the congressional security committees i can tell you that beyond that american and caribbean crime is a global threat in some of the money from organized crime unfortunately funds terror movements, which are alive and well around the world. segue to the introduction of general douglas fraser. as a four-star general and commander satcom he manages a force of over 1200 latour and

civilian personnel at the jail has enjoyed a distinguished career in the air force, lacking with an 2800 flying hours in f-15 and f-16s and received a multitude of decorations, including the defense distinguished service medals, superior service, and legion of merit and given his current assignment seems fortunate and farsighted dimension he attended school. three years of from bogotá. notwithstanding a proposed $13 million cut in their budget and seemingly estimable arts commission will fraser and his commander heart of what is countering the effects of the illicit drug trade airtime traffic in organized crime through a central facet. just had a succession of enough analysis priced by his view, which you will hear in a moment

that military force alone is not a great way to go here, but it is what i call it what should i claim that the use of smart power, which is a far better strategy, not just by us, the governments of the region against this enormously toxic and difficult to defeat threats. so general fraser, we are honored by your presence and look forward to next and the discussion that will follow and am not sure whether he took the podium over to cingular general fraser. what am i doing? for >> for me just say about dr. cynthia drexler america program said as i often say if you want to get the job done right, pretty woman in charge. she is superb and the program as one of our past here at the wilson center, and many other programs. but it is a pleasure to have general fraser here and to discuss a very hard topic and i hope to back a little bit about the excellent research and reports we are turning out here.

so general fraser, the podium is yours here. please welcome general fraser. [applause] >> welcome a thank you during a match for the introduction. and i will say a couple of things and appreciate the great work the senator is doing, especially your publications. they really are important. he really do help us understand the situation and gain insight we wouldn't get in other ways. so really it's a pleasure for me to get here, have an opportunity to talk about a topic that from a military standpoint is not something i grew up in a military career and is a topic i thought would be focused on. but as i look around the region, thank you as i look around the region tameka latin america, really look at the western hemisphere that large for central south america and the

caribbean i don't seem an external military threat. as i look within the region, there are some issues, some concerns between some of the countries. again i do not see an internal military conflict anytime in the near future either. governments, institutions have worked through diplomatic avenues enter international venues to address key issues they are concerned about and i see the trend continuing. so the security issue that i see throughout the region's transnational organized crime and the impact of this happening nonsecurity throughout. and i'll talk a little bit more about this very specifically. i exceeded my terms as a 21st century threat. and as a 21st century threats and my terms they see in two different landscapes. i see it on a regional basis as

one that does not start and end in one country. it does not start and ended with the region. if i look at sub 10 specifically, there is a source that approaches the northern part of south america. there's a transit zone and as we as we looked in the united states a transit zone for central america primarily now through the caribbean to a lesser amount right now but if you go back 20 years it was much worse in the caribbean and then into the demand part of that, the united states. and we have to addressed each part of that landscape. there is no way to address each one individually. as they look more broadly than that some of the other influences on these criminal organizations, it is not just trafficking cocaine. we focus because that is what we have the most about. and the reality of the criminal

organization looking to fund activities in whichever manner can. so we see precursors and current members of precursors for methamphetamines from other parts of the world into united states. think there's another landscape we need to look at as we look at this problem also i'm not as a network of networks and it doesn't again start and end in one location to work in the source found to the transit of sound that different organizations, different parts of networks that are now enabled and empowered. we need to understand the networks as well and start putting pressure on them. again i talk about this from the united states does. but if you go and take the same analogy into that much more broadly, that source sound, a transit town, demands that is going to other parts of the globe. not just constrained to the western hemisphere anymore. we are seeing an creasing

amount, upward of 40% of the cocaine in west africa to the demands of the europe and in the end zone for the middle east. this is an issue that connects much more broadly than just in latin america and the western hemisphere. and from my standpoint as a step back and look at it, we have a role to play from the u.s. military standpoint. we had a supporting role and a state has a limited supporting role in supporting u.s. government efforts an international effort from the three-judge and more broadly around the globe to play a part in that. i that. i looked straight arvo specifically has to go through anymore and i'll be happy to answer your questions or discuss this after we win. so bottom line is right now it's in my area of responsibility, central america, south america and caribbean for u.s. forest

service in that engagement. i see the biggest turn right on central america where violence is causing the biggest impact on the stability and security within the region. some of the violence is caused by organized crime. gang members and social issues also represent and cannot violence. again we cannot just confine this to one key issue i'll all been caused by transversal organized crime. the need to understand relationships and capacities better. but he is an issue in an area we continue to focus on. what do you see this as a 21st century problems that we were facing a century quiets from that i see it as a globalization standpoint. globalization and all the capacities fetisov support business and commerce and grow

our economies around the world have had a negative result in supporting the growth of illicit trafficking and kidnapping since facilitated their ability to move product around the world as well. as a result of that, it follows him across as some of the boundaries i talked about before and again i will explain that as they go through a little more. ..

but it's also the bribery, the conversion, the of the impact that it has for them to facilitate their activity. these organizations are very diversified. as i mentioned, they worked in the precursor chemicals weapons moved back and forth throughout the region from military grade weapons to also commercial weapons. there's trafficking with persons and built cash and that moves back and forth through the region, it's not just a one-way street in the united states. a lot of that activity comes out of the united states, so it is having an impact. if we dhaka cocaine specifically, 90% of the cocaine in the united states comes to central america and what ever

manner and i will talk a little bit more about that in a minute. it is a very lucrative business and these businesses support all those activities. as i look at with the support and how they conduct their activities these are smart and capable organizations, and as we from an international community as local organizations put pressure in location, they look for a way to move to other places where there's less resistance and they look for other capacities to build. many of you are aware of the semi submersible vessels as we call them or fully submersible but we have seen more recently. the semi submersible are built in the jungles of columbia and ecuador. 100 feet long, crew of four people that can travel from the coast of south america off the coast of mexico guatemala can

carry up to 10 tons of cocaine. and if you look at that from an economic standpoint our estimates are the cost of $2 million to build one of these vessels. the market value for the ten metric tons of cocaine is roughly $250 million. so it's a pretty significant return as coelacanth these vessels are hard to detect. the of low water lines and they are trained to be camouflaged in the water, so they are very difficult to find and we are seeing in evolution and to fully submersibles. these are similar to make, fiberglass that can submerge when they detect that there's all enforcement international electricity trying to detect them and stay there for some amount of time and then continue. sophisticated vessels that have periscope systems and exhaust and intake systems so they can operate in a submerged basis and these are all built vessels so

that gives you some idea if you look at that capacity along with a lot of other different types of maritime activities as well as aviation activity of how they are transmitting these goods through the maritime and chairman and the caribbean and eastern pacific and central america. why are they using the maritime meanings as a transit? primarily because there is no road connecting. columbia with panama. so they work to move around that obstacle if you will and then make land wherever its most favorable throughout central america. today that happens to be primarily honduras eastern and northeastern part of hundred us is where we see aviation and maritime principally. panama is the second location where that activity comes and guatemala is the third coming and the reason they do that is

once they get on ground they can distribute the loads and it makes it much harder to detect and they follow the road systems up through mexico into the southwest border and across the u.s. border in the united states. so very difficult challenge, and those networks are supporting one another all along the path through central america and we talk about pretty dramatic honduras today, 2011 has a homicide rate of 86 per 100,000. guatemala has a homicide rate of 100,000 el salvador is 66 per 100,000. there are pockets that's the most violent city in the world now and it's 159 per 100,000. as a pretty significant. it's having an impact as you look at the lives of the people who live there and it permeates

the entire societies. if you are a prosecutor and you are focused on a high-profile case against drug traffickers there is a high potential that you will be dismembered and, you know, left as a warning to governors and local officials. journalists, it's a tree difficult place to be journalists who are now focused on addressing and writing on corruption. that has become in many places a death sentence as well and impacts students who are walking back and forth to school if they are the wrong place at the wrong time they could be the victims of the incident of violence. it is having a significant impact. as a result because of this situation and because of the capacities of law enforcement, countries and the region especially in the northern part, baala, el salvador, have asked

their militaries to support their law enforcement capacities to address the situation and as i talk with those militaries, they clearly understand their role. the understand that they have limited authority of their job as to support law enforcement put the focus on the government asked them to do in these situations. so we've seen enormous challenges as we look across the region than in helping support and so that is where i see our reality as we focus and approach this issue. it is the reality that the mother trees are being asked to come in and support so how do we help them work so they can better integrate and coordinate with law enforcement? as you look to the international waterways and aerospace and caribbean in the eastern pacific that has been a traditional role for the united states military to support activities and joined the task force southcom and

sabrue this anniversary last year an interagency group law enforcement, military plus partner nations working together to address this common problem. so i see this is part of the solution. i don't -- i see it as part of the solution working our capacity and working within our authority to support law enforcement and other government agencies to address the overall problems that we see throughout the region and as we help to coordinate those activities country by country and our mechanisms from a 20th century standpoint all have very defined lanes and that's good, but we have learned within those lanes and a lot of those times we were country by country we will work bilateral but this is a regional problem and it's not just a

bilateral problems of how we coordinate the activities of one country with another country with another country so that we make sure we are adding this whole way along the line and we look at it from a regional problem. that's why i see that we have a role to play in supporting the state department and other agencies in the u.s. government to address this problem. the entire interagency approach growing very deliberately throughout the region and in my perspective our goal, michael i will put it specifically from the u.s. southern command standpoint is to support this engagement if you will to support our interagency military is to the point is is not a regional security problem but it becomes a problem that local police and law enforcement capacities can handle and right now that is not the situation i see that in the region. so let me give you just a couple

ideas of how we support central american region security initiative pillars goals because the integrated directly to this department goals as we look through central america but let me also say that as i see our engagement in the united states in the engagement through the region it is a coordination of more than one program so a program with mer in mexico canucks with of the central american region which connect is with the caribbean basin security commission which also connect with the support to the u.s. government to columbia, and we are also engaged very much with peru in the manner now to support their fight against. these different strategies are all connected and i feel we need to look to them as connected whole and not as just individual

programs. we are looking to support each of those with the exception of america because it is the northern command responsibility to work in the military that capacity. as i look down through the pillars, the pillar number two is to disrupt the movement of criminal and contraband coming in here is where we work very directly in the maritime and environment to direct the detection and monitoring of the illicit tracking as it flows through the region's. but i want to make sure we understand this is a connected whole. all we are doing is one part of this link of the traffic as it moves through the region. as a departs south america that information normally comes from law enforcement intelligence and law enforcement information. that is passed to join interagency task force south

which now attacks ships to monitor that trafficking as it transit's through the maritime environment and once it gets to the location where there's a ship or to aa that can intercept, that the vessel intercept but it has law enforcement capacity on board. and so will enforcement will then be team and move those individuals to prosecution whether it be in the host nation or to other parts to the united states, so it is a truly interagency operation. everybody working within their own authorities and their own capacities towards a common goal to focus and support that effort. that has been our focus for up to 20 years now. we've recently changed the strategy in our approach on the maritime environment we call that it focuses on a little more persistent focus on the traffic as it is moving back-and-forth through the region using the

same capacity, same authority that we've always used, just changing the approach we are using to see if we can reduce the impact of these organizations in the movement through the caribbean. we can force them to move other places that makes their trafficking and movement of their capacities in a more difficult area. that is where we are working as we support the car seat pillar. the pillar is strong and capable government and the goal of safe streets our programs look to foster professional military civilian lead mental military's foster respect for human rights and the rule of law and help support their engagement in the region we are also looking to see how we can be creative with

in this area as well and where does it make sense to have u.s. military police go down and help support that engagement back-and-forth between how the armed forces' support law enforcement of the work back and forth in each of these areas. we also conduct exercises and training with the mother to help build their capacity. jury traditional military to military engagement that still continues today. in addition to that, the next pillar is number four effective of state prisons, and we see that very much working with usaid and other parts of the u.s. government with coordinating where we can support humanitarian assistance projects where we support really building disaster response capabilities. how do we coordinate and continue to support usaid efforts and other government efforts to build those

capacities where they need to be built because that's where the biggest problem is, so it really is working with each part of the u.s. government, coordinating our efforts so we are making the most of what we have, and then finally the other numbers life is enhanced cooperation, and we do that on a routine basis through military to military exchanges through international education and training programs which help train military, health and educate military's on their role in society and help build the relationships between one another and then the exercises that we routinely conduct through the region also that are again very traditional defense related exercises that help build those relationships as well. we find that interaction and

engagement is critical to our role in sustaining our partnerships in the region and building and growing the capacity throughout the region. let me conclude by saying i think as vice president joe biden demonstrated as he visited the region that this really is a from the united states standpoint a whole of government effort. i see it as a whole of government or whole of international effort to look at a group of friends that is supporting this effort international the coming and we see growing support from nations with in latin america, colombia is an example of bringing their experience, bringing their understanding to help support the countries in central america to address this issue as well. so i see growing strength and growing connection in the u.s. interagency and the international community and building the capacity to support

the government's in central america to address this critical problem. i just want to leave you with that thought i started out with. it is a regional and it is a hemispheric problem, and there is no one solution from one organization that will solve this problem. it is one that we have to work together, all of government and international basis, and i will take it one step further to the whole of society also because it is the society's the ultimately will benefit and everyone needs to be involved to reduce the impact of this criminal activity, and we will play our role in supporting u.s. government efforts and international efforts to address this problem until we can move it to a place where the government's working with one another really have the capacity

and the capability to address this on their own and coordinate that on a regional as well as international basis. i feel we have a road to go on that but that's the way i see our goals at large from the government standpoint. thank you and i will be happy to take questions. [applause] >> thank you very much for those remarks and while you are getting ready for the question and answer period i would like to throw out first a question i just returned from guatemala, where obviously the president has made headlines by calling for the forms of decriminalization, and i think as we seek the presidents of central america are meeting in an tegla to discuss proposals to bring to some of the americas for alternatives drug policies.

i am struck by -- and i think all of those that follow this phenomenon from a long time the drug problem or the cocaine was in colombia and peru and now we see the displacement of that. so is their -- if you are successful in stopping some of the trafficking through mexico and central america, where do you think this will go next and is there more that should be done within the united states on the demand side seizing the weapons flow improving money laundering and are there other alternative strategies that might be worth considering given the tendency that we've seen over a period of decades of the production and the trafficking moving from one place to another. i know that is a pretty broad question on the table, but i think some of the -- you know, those of us that followed the

issue closely have these kinds of questions in the back of our mind. i would like to leave that on the table and have you, you know, perhaps touch on it in various ways and invite the participation of the members of the audience the i'd ask you to please wait for the microphone and also identify yourself by name and institution. let's start with this gentleman here and take maybe three questions so we will start with this gentleman. right here. >> thank you. my name is david nelson with ge now. my question is first, does the definition of one of the trafficking groups as a criminal group or a terrorist group affect the doctrine of how southcom or other military engagements with them and second coming your emphasis on local of government approach of dealing

with the issue is important but one can foresee a situation where the budgets of most u.s. agencies declined relative to the pentagon budget you are faced with a dilemma of stepping up to fill in gaps that are left behind as other agencies are forced to cut back or cut back with them leaving the whole for the traffic how do you address that? >> to the first question, it does differ how we approach whether we see it as a criminal organization are terrorist organization, and i think columbia provides the best example where we see the farc which crossed the line, our approach changes a little in that realm but still requires a whole of government approach because the military is not going to solve the problem by

itself. no part of the government is going to solve it by itself. we have to work all those different avenues. as i look at the whole of government i would argue that our budgets get press and that puts more emphasis on the need to improve the coordination because limited budgets mean we still have the same problem and have to address it any more focused manner if you will and it still takes each part of our were government to address. the issues i see, one of the reasons i think the of the trees are being asked to support law enforcement is most of the region they are the highly regarded institution within the government's, and the populace and the government has more confidence in them than they do other agencies. the real solution then becomes building the other capacities

within the government so the military isn't that organization that comes in and plays that role. that's why i say it isn't going to be our solution to this. we can help support those activities but the real solution is building the other capacities within government and the rest of society so there is in the opportunity for criminal organizations to have the same impact. >> this gentleman here. right behind you. >> to work for the council of economic affairs. my question is pretty straightforward. what do you think the future role of the u.s. bases in honduras and also the door for example now a de have

[inaudible] thank you. >> i think those locations have remained critical to the support to address the problem, and the issues you look at, the aircraft that are patrolling, the only have so much fuel on the aircraft and so the closer you can get to the location they need to patrol and operate from that location means you have more time to spend looking for that trafficking. the more transit time you have the last time you have and that's why the value of the locations has been important to the overall international effort to counter the traffic through the maritime violence. and i find within the joint task force and in honduras it provides support but it also provides the ability to support parts of our government as well

as other governments in addressing directly to trafficking for those reasons we are not involved in any operations we just provide support and also helps respond to the disasters and provide humanitarian assistance where required and it really provides a pretty immediate capacity to do that we're it would take longer without that location. so i see those locations remaining. where and how that changes we will work with the government in the region to see where the demand is and the opportunities are and we will look to see as forces become available from the war in iraq and afghanistan whether there is a better application and more application for those difficulties but we need more surveillance and reconnaissance capacity and we see that coming hopefully the future. >> i'm going to take this young

woman here in the blue. >> thank you very much. i represent florida international university in miami florida we have quite a few relationships with southcom, u.s. aid and many others in the government and i was wondering whether you saw the future of academic institutions playing a role in your objectives in the government's objective in central america and around the world. >> we have today as you mentioned a very close relationship with fiu to the university of miami and other academic institutions, and your ability to go out and study programs and help educate one another on the capabilities and requirements there and help us seek the solutions may be in a different way than we would be looking at it otherwise are going to be important, and in

finding those solutions i would argue as we look more broadly, and i will give you hallmark since you are supporting fiu, how do we look at this and what i would say is a nontraditional manner? how do we approach to addressing the problem in a manner differently than we have traditionally approached the problem? and i will go back and address colombia for example. we've focused a lot of the u.s. government standpoint and in supporting columbia. columbia really is the success story because of their focus and their efforts to do it. we just provide the support whereas it provide a good leverage opportunity. but as a result as you see come trafficking organizations are moving in other places. so we have to keep pressure on all parts of the organization, not just on one part, and our systems are built to work bilateral, left to work reasonably and across agencies.

so you all can help us determine solutions and find ways to address this problem differently than we have in the past. >> this gentleman here in the middle. >> my good friend? >> thank you. good morning. from the u.s. naval war college, with reductions in your budget you mentioned coordination. how do you see the participation of the countries in the region to help each other and do you see it feasible and what problems, are there? how do you see eight can be solved? >> this is a very difficult issue. let me just use the u.s. government as an example, and we will use the u.s. military as an even more defined example. we have been working on being

more joint and operating more joint for almost 30 years now. we are still involving how we work jointly. we are evolving today the interagency coordination, and we have varying degrees of cooperation that work within the u.s. government of how we work on an international basis. as you go to embassies they normally work pretty well together as you expand that on the regional basis, the international agency doesn't coordinate as well as it could there. now as you start bringing in each government each agency and the government gives me a very complex problem, but that's the problem we have to address and solve, and i see that there's opportunities and solutions if we all focus on that single problem which is citizen security come and citizen securities in the interest of us all, and each part of our government and our interagency

partners as well as international partners have a role to play. but we can only do that working together. so, i go back to our educational institutions standpoint. we need solutions and new ways of thinking about how to approach that come and we need that from us as well as those other institutions. the last thing i will say going back to the fiu question is we started a private public relationship, how do we work better with the private sector. we talk a lot about the government here but we cannot forget the private sector. the private sector, non-governmental organizations, we are all a part of the solution, as we all have to see ourselves as part of the solution and work to that. >> if i can jump in would have another comment i pick up on some of the things you've been saying about the budgetary limitations and that's been reflected in a number of the

comments. i think all of us who work on foreign policy face the constant challenge of making these issues of interest and relevance to the u.s. public and i'm really struck by the figure the use light of the 18 billion-dollar value of ten times of cocaine of one shipment and then i balance that against the amendment in spending over three or four years and it comes from the four injured 50 million. we obviously say budgetary constraints in the country. >> d.c. the public and congress in particular, growing to understand the magnitude of this problem and being prepared to do more to support the efforts? >> i think it is a complex problem and fix them the mosaics on a global basis that there's other issues our government and

nation is looking at is we put it in that context and keep working in the context and so i'm comfortable with where we are and how we are approaching a but the real issue and capacity for me is how to reconnect the capacities better to make a difference, then we need to continue the efforts we do. i don't talk about what's happened in the united states a lot because that is and where my focus is. but the u.s. government is investing over $10 billion a year looking to reduce demand, looking to educate, help support to counter drug activities in the united states. one thing we don't talk about in the united states is drugs directly related to the death of 37,000 americans a year. that's more than we tell on the highways but that doesn't

resonate. there are criminal organizations that have networks in u.s. cities. there are problems in the united states also. we are not the first from the problems, both domestically as throughout the hemisphere. we need to help support all parts of it and do our part within the united states. >> here in the middle and in the back. i'm not sure that the microphone is on. >> -- space change. i was wondering if you set concrete metrics for southern command and discuss the citizen security of what does that mean that you're looking at homicide increasing indicators in that

area. it's to be successful indicator would use as a measure? >> we have traditionally looked out the national drug policies which is to give the desert 40% of the cocaine in the united states has that goal, and there's been a steady gold 2015 to address that issue that is the traditional because our focus has been that detection and monitoring area. if you look at the price of cocaine, it's gone up 50% over the last five years. the quality has come out so those are indicators. the use of cocaine has been going down in the united states over the last three to five years, but the use of other types of drugs is going up, so

there's still the demand issue, and we can't just focus on cocaine. so that's what i would say there. but beyond that, and this is from an interagency standpoint we are in discussions of what are the right metrics, how do we look at this as we crossed u.s. agency boundaries and focus our efforts to improve the way that we have been supporting and working. i don't have the answers if we have ideas i'm open where there are good metrics that will help us measure that. >> right here. >> the department of health and human services. two years ago i had the pleasure of being a part of the initiative that i believe was led by secretary gates called the conventional warfare.

it was this for game scenario where we were focusing on central america and it talked about the coordination you talk about congenital fraser how to address not just the trafficking of the wide array of citizen security issues coming and coming from the more grassroots perspective and experience myself not being in government i was impressed with the process. my question to you is, to questions, the first question is how do you see something like the conventional warfare used as a strategy to bring about the level of coordination, and everyone getting on the same page because it's my view believe that i think this has serious potential. the second piece is if that

strategy continues to stay as such is there a possibility that we could then try to make efforts to involve some of those other countries in the exercise like that? that is the first thing that came to mind as i sat through those ten days out here in potomac. if we could just have a wide array of people from those countries involved in this process i think we could do some incredible work. >> there's already a lot of support and a lot of initiative going down. i want colet and unconventional warfare approach, the state department has a group that is working a very deliberately on how we work this interagency effort and focus those efforts to build that strategies, but it's how we help a little more finding and now the details to how we approach that effort.

we look at countries in the region. we're focused on this effort as well. other countries within latin america as well as the western hemisphere and international community are also bringing their capacities, and i see a lot of different efforts that are focused here. there are efforts in the united states government as well as the coordinate those efforts, so this is a work in progress and it is improving, maybe not as fast as i would like to see it improved but it is moving and we are taking very positive steps forward, and that needs to continue to be our focus and i get a sense from everyone i've talked with and that is the key focus that we will remain engaged in that manner. >> gentlemen -- the gentleman with the mustache. >> you mentioned in passing the

caribbean. what do care to comment on the role of puerto rico which is rapidly increasing and the drug-related violence is addressing the level in the middle of the economic crisis which is beginning to look at the collapse. estimate the organizations are looking for any opportunities they have and looking for those areas. today on an overall basis of the traffic through the caribbean is much less than it is in central america. we continue to monitor that. it has a differing impact as you look at central america, but the same kinds of programs as we look at caribbean initiative and that's where i am focused. but other parts of our open address the issue of three gaza that is again as we look at caribbean basis, the security initiative, all these different

elements of the united states are all a part of that solution, so i don't have specific answers right now other than of remains i work with u.s. northern command and other agencies in the u.s. government is very clear focus that it's not just central america, it is a regional look. >> all the way in the back over there. >> i am a public policy scholar and also a journalist i write for newsweek and the daily beast. can you tell us about the submarines, bonds you describe like how many are there, are there more and also how do they build them in the jungle? >> a lot of questions i can't answer. >> day of construction sites and

estuaries and triple canopy jungle along the coast colombia and south america very hard to find, hard to discover and they take commercially available products and construct a vessel. the dimensions, 100 feet long, the crew of four to six, some pretty sophisticated vessels that proved they captured one over a year-and-a-half ago that have both diesel motors and electric and batteries. they had the video systems so they could look outside and see whether or not there was an approach from another vessel that had an navigation system, so it had not gotten under way so that was an opportunity to understand this capacity. i can't tell you how many there

are. i just don't have that information. and it's a difficult vessel to detect. so we are working on both where they are building them to see where the opportunities can detect them and the transit area and how they work and offload their cargo to figure it where is the best way to continue to address those problems. the take a year or longer than that and cost a little bit more money to the return this is the first year also we have seen semisubmersibles very similar vessels just stays on the surface. we've seen them for the very first time in the caribbean but we are seeing expanded news of these types of vessels for the transport of not only drugs that we have captured some cases both cash moving back, so it is a

transportation vessel. >> i'd like to go back to something in the you mentioned earlier about the role of the military command as we know, the armed forces as you pointed out is the institutions that have the greatest level of respect, you know, among citizens and with all the countries of central america and at the same time, there is a lot of controversy whether or not the military should be involved in the struggle precisely because of the efforts during the peace accord and the implementation to get the armed forces out of an internal security. i guess given that sort of contradiction or conflict, what role should the u.s. government plea? is there a role in reinforcing the law enforcement capability in central america and how are you working or how is soft, working to bolster that element

of the government response? >> we work very deliberately with our partner military. focus on respect for human rights, human law, of love role within the government organizations and civilian governments. and what i see very deliberately and consciously from the military work with is a keen respect for their role and where they should be in on a case by case basis how they choose to bring the military in to that focus to have a limited role helping support some wall enforcement capacity, and that is helping build facilities that help them operate but the training capacity that is the department of state and other

parts of our government, so our efforts are to coordinate with them, and as i see most of the military, again, it varies country by country but in a lot of cases they are providing security for the law enforcement. so they are not the arresting people come and again on the various country by country but they are providing security, where the law enforcement organizations might not have otherwise so they are looking for those solutions that respect the role in society that understand the governments are asking them to play a role in the security. >> blue shirt. >> i was intrigued by your comments about engaging the call societies and public-private sector engagement if you can expand further what for are the taking or are there certain countries our activities in

which you have seen the most progress or see the most potential >> we need to see where the other opportunities are and it really is just an opportunity where we can connect some engagement where we might not for other example to build a school we don't have the authority to equip it or to pay for teachers or to provide teachers to get a private organization who can provide that capacity. we are just linking up opportunities, so that overall again, we respect our authority and i'm not trying to change that, we are just looking as we cross all these problems some

cases there are organizations that had product state the needed moved and there were other airlines, cargo companies who could move, but they didn't understand how to connect to the opportunities so we provided a connective tissue to help them do that. working with usaid, to help support those opportunities. as we look to the future that's what i see as we look with the projects and a lot of different programs have and private industry support government activities. it's an area where i think there is a lot of growth opportunities >> i could adjust to authority second advertisement involved in

just that kind of project to engage the private sector in of a citizens' security issues and there will be a conference april 19 that the world bank and the state department also playing a role so i think across-the-board people see this as a vital part of the solution coming from countries themselves i think we have time for two more questions. >> can i just had an one -- >> sure, please. >> it is when the society's decided is their problem to fix that we will find the solution, and that's the real crux and from my standpoint it's important to enlist and helped them understand how they can connect with various government activities to provide part of

the solution and that is why we are looking out where those opportunities are and to support our activities and as we support other government activities to build those relationships and opportunities. [inaudible] you mentioned there are some concerns in the region. i would like to know what specifically are these concerns, and you mentioned recently some issue involving drones, and i was wondering if you can make some comments on that and the cooperation between the both. thank you. >> okay. we will take one right here. >> she asked a question. >> right. no, did you want to take a couple of questions and come back for a final answer wargo

one-on-one? however you prefer. >> let me just answer the question. on a military to military bases we have very small relations with venezuela and that has been more of their intent than ours but there's no cooperation that we see back-and-forth between venezuela and the united states and we face common problems. the issue we are talking about is a common problem, and from my perspective venezuela hasn't stepped up within the international community to support these efforts to the level of which the cut and there's an opportunity for them to help support and address this problem to the supply-side transnet to the demand side and

all parts of these efforts need to be addressed. the coordination the have between colombia and venezuela has improved over the last couple of years i think that is a very helpful indication and i just would like to see that cooperation grow as we face this problem. islamic my name is alexander kravitz, former government official. i wanted to go back to the question on the intervention of the military being called out to help with law enforcement. what are some of the match rex -- metrics to determine whether that has been successful or whether that is a successful effort to for the policy makers to be looking at to determine if it's a good decision we're making progress or not progress because one can get the impression that it would be more

of a i don't want to call it a publicity measure, its visible, they are up in the street but what is at specifically how does it specifically had a value in terms of solving the problem? >> again, each country has to decide what that is and we have now more than half the military engaged in supporting law enforcement activities and their supporting the opportunities as last supporting law enforcement, and what i see is it is the security. homicide rate is one measure. i think we need to look at of their definitive measures also but that's not the only measure, and i think the best understanding of that is it would put pressure on some of these organizations they will become more violent rather than less, and i guess the other impact i would see is ii

understand some of these organizations are starting to focus on attacking police and that military because of the impact they are having on their operations. so in my mind, that's not a very good measure, it's not a positive one, but it shows the impact of their security and more folks on the streets, and again, that's not from law enforcement standpoint but from the security standpoint and the cooperation that helps go back and forth to help them out. the metrics little was understand what the positive factors are and bring back to colombia there's an opportunity to understand columbus perspective and that's just a prospective because they've been looking to this issue we need to understand that in each of the country's as we go forward and

see how we can move those metrics out. so i don't have a very good specific answer for you yet. again, we are looking our way through to understand how best to measure the impact as we address this on their own terms that >> one more question. all the way in the back. >> to go back to the original question you posed >> if you can identify yourself. estimate from the anthropology department in the smithsonian, to go back to the original question that you posed and the platform that you are addressing to use the issue, i would like to add to that equation. i'm surprised that bolivia wasn't even mentioned as being a problem, but maybe that's because of the fact that we have more as the president but are

there things that you can do to protect this enormous development that we've made in bolivia for 60 years seems to have had some progress in that area, but some advances in the area of alternative development, agricultural development. i'm just curious to see if this is still on the radar scope and if it is anything that is going to be done in this area in terms of joint efforts between the military and the state department etc. estimate is still part of our focus. we are engaged with all of our partners throughout the military to military standpoint. the military engagement in bolivia has been reduced over the last few years, and from the drug enforcement agency standpoint that has been very much reduced as well, but we are, and there is a true liberal agreement has been formed

between brazil and bolivia and the united states to address this international crime issue across the borders across brazil so the united states is playing a role in that effort. again, not us directly, but other agencies in the united states government. so there is still a very deliberate engagement with bolivia and the opportunities to continue to work together. again, we all face a very similar problem and it is only working this together that we are going to be able to really address hanft. tuck essential kit america and the impact because it is where we see the biggest issue in an attack on security, and from the u.s. perspective, that's the area that affects us from the defense standpoint. with that said, we are very

engaged with all the other partners on a mutual relationship and mutual partners, and i see that very much continuing. >> would you like to make a final comment, one last thought that you would like to leave us with? >> i will begin or end with how i start, and that is there is no one solution to this problem. we all have to decide that it is our problem and we are going to be part of the solution and every one of us has a role whether it is here domestically or supporting activities in the government internationally. so i would ask for your ideas, your thoughts on your engagement on how we can address this issue at large, because it is an area and it is an issue that is going to continue to impact us and i would ask us not just to focus on drugs either because it is criminal activity, and my

example of that is i was in colombia about three, four weeks ago because of a gold price is the problem of the illegal gold mining is growing. the problem with the mining is growing in other places for the criminal law activity. the same organizations are engaged in this same type of effort, so we need to look at it from what it is and what roles to address the problem over all. thank you for the opportunity to talk about this. [applause] >> you've been very generous with your time and we appreciate the leadership that have provided and we wish you well in the next phase of your life. >> thank you very much. >> thank you pure yet [inaudible conversations]

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>> the stockholm international peace research institute last week released a report on international arms transfers. according to the new data, india has overtaken china has the largest arms importer with asian nations in the largest consumers of military hardware. the institute on friday hosted a panel looking at the new numbers

in the impact of global security. the united nations is scheduled to meet in july to negotiate a treaty regulating the international arms trade. >> welcome everybody. my name is streamed to any of director of chantal de jonge si. this is the newest research center of the so-called international peace research in the tube based in washington d.c. now as many of you may well know, sipri is an independent under international research to toot dedicated to the research of arms control, disarmament, but also regional and transnational security issues. i think many of you might be familiar with sipri's annual yearbook, which provides very authoritative information data and analysis on security on

conflict, military spending and rna, non-proliferation and arms control and disarmament issues. what you may not know is that sipri is increasingly present in the major decision-making centers of the world. a few years ago, sipri offered an office in beijing and china and since figure six, we now have an office here in washington d.c. and i must say i am absolutely delighted that we are located with a a triptych institute at the center. now, the sipri north america officers north america officers to bring new global innovative voices to the security and foreign policy debate across north america to strengthen cooperation between european, american and international experts and institutions and we will be doing that by bringing our colleagues from stockholm to this side of the atlantic, by

organizing roundtable discussions like the one today, by seeking partnerships with other institutions come the university think tanks, governments on this side of the atlantic and by doing original research. now in terms of the research, sipri north america will initially house a focus on four main areas. one is on the mend more and cheese, gender issues 51 and we have our d. a number of projects in the pipeline. we have a conference on violence and conflict and post-conflict settings that will be held in november later this year in a multiyear research on the implementation of u.n. security council resolution 1325. this is the resolution adopted by the security council some 11

years ago, that demanded that states to pay greater attention. a second of research would be possible to hope and security. a third on the regional security issues and here we will have a particular focus after the drawdown of allied troops. and there but not least arms-control and disarmament of sipri. now this is actually one of our first events come in first of events and it is very fitting that it features one of sipri's flagship programs, namely the conventional arms transfer program. each year paul holtom and his colleagues at the military

expenditure program to a superb job and provide us with authoritative data that many inside and outside governors have come to rely on. these types of data are crucial if we want to better understand what is going on in the security field. it allowed us to identify two stipulation types of weapons as part likes to call them, reactive arms acquisitions. in hops in. also allows us to de-escalate potential areas i think the sipri it doesn't seem to have suffered from economic crisis and while we are all preoccupied particularly on this time with nuclear proliferation to conventional weapons at the ones

that are actually killing people 2012 is going to be an extremely important year to bring in conventional weapons. we may see the conclusion of the treaty that will regulate the global arms trade. this treaty will be negotiated in july in new york and in office will have a conference that suggests the progress made in terms that the small light weapons plan of action, a plan of action and that in 2006 and may preparatory committee for the conference actually met this week in new york. not today we really have a terrific panel, which i would say really the leading expert in the world mommies issues. and we will examine and look at the trends and outfitters to control the transfers of conventional weapons. we will start off with my colleague, paul holtom, direct

or the sipri program and to introduce new sipri data and sort of set the stage. before joining sipri in 2006, paul was associated with prestigious institutions in germany, and russia come in the u.k. and has also worked for the council of europe. paul also has expertise in russian and east european issues since he did his phd on that particular issue. he has written extensively. and i will just make a little plug for you, paula. just bring to implement it on arms trade treaty as well as another publication on china's energy and security relations with russia. after paul, i would like to turn to not schroeder, a senior analyst at the federation of american ion case and a consultant for the geneva-based

schoolmarm survey. that is also a prolific author and is the co-author of the small arms trade and the coordinator of the first comprehensive global studies of the author as trade small arms and might weapons. so, not we'll talk a little bit about what is happening in the small iron skillet and talking particularly about transparency issues. we will then turn to rachel stohl, a fellow here at the this sentence under a loss program to address racial to look at the future and particularly look at the prospects and possible impact of the arms trade treaty. rachel has been an expert in this field for a long number of years on both sides of the atlantic. at chatham house, the royal british institute of international affairs.

she was also a senior analyst at the center for defense information and washing in d.c. she has been a consultant for many organizations who have recognized our expertise in these issues, including oxfam, small arms survey and the u.n. and finally, but certainly not least, we will turn to bill malzahn come executive director and senior coordinator for multilateral control of conventional weapons and the state department. he? u.n. participation in u.n. direct. he? u.n. participation in u.n. direct. he? u.n. participation in u.n. direct the night is the beginning of the effort of a knot is the beginning of the effort at the register. he has been the u.s. taxpayer to u.n. groups of governmental experts throughout the 90s and in 2000, 2003, 2006 and 2009.

he is also the deputy head of the u.s. delegation on the arms treaty and so bill, you have great responsibility coming up in july. so, without further ado, let me turn it over to my colleague, paul. >> thank you, chantel and thank you to sipri north america for managing the event and securing excellent panelists to plug into law the pressure is the first person to speak. as chantel noted, the arms transfer program is one of those mondays projects as sipri. in 1960 in the setup and today we have three core pillars of work. the first is monitoring international armed street fairs. the second is to promote transparency in international arms transfers on the third is to conduct research and present findings and recommendations to strengthen others to come close efforts to combat trafficking.

in today's presentation, and will present some of the highlights of my newly released data, which you can find in the sipri database transfer online and this provides information on orders and deliveries of major conventional weapons between the years 1950 and 2011. we think providing this information is chantel noted is for policy analysis, identifying destabilizing trend but also can be used as an indicator for the strength of interstate relations in certain cases, too. my attention today is to appeal for joe friday and track not just prevent facts although i am more than happy to discuss the details about the drivers behind some trends and go into some of the minor but perhaps concerning transfers b.c. i guess the general headline as chantel recognizes the arms transfers or a data for the

period 2007 until 2011 indicates 24% in christ christ 2002 until 22,002 until 2006. an aside to the side we see how that breaks down the major regions. so age of accounting for 44% of the volume of transfers of insults followed by europe, middle east, americas and africa but this is were i'd be happy to discuss later some interesting sub regional increases in particular with regards to africa, north africa to southeast asia, south quercus says. before talking about imports them are detailing going to switch to talk about the situation with regards to the suppliers had the headline here is really it seems not much has changed. the same size major suppliers continue to dominate. that is the u.s. followed by russia, germany, france and the u.k. i think one of the things we find interesting is although they remain the same, their

shared international trade is declining. i guess there's some caveats we think that israel is probably underestimated and are making some are making for an accounting i think it's also interesting to know outside the top 10 the number of non-european supplies emerging as major competitors on the international arms trade and they are competing not just against each other in international tenders with the more established players feared so for example, south korea, south africa and brazil. but those of you who have hopefully seeing the media this week covering releases on data, china has been mentioned quite often and that's what i will focus on in the next couple of minutes. so the volume of chinese import has been declining that exploits in our data is increasing by about 95% between the two periods we are talking about. it has risen to be the sixth largest exporter for 2,722,000 love him and in touching distance to the u.k.

it is worth stressing one of the main reasons behind the increase in the volume of chinese arms export is the increase in the blame of exports by pakistan. china accounts for around two thirds of the volume -- pakistan accounts for two thirds of the volume of chinese exports during 20,007 and jf southern combat aircraft, naval vessels and tanks. i think it is worth stressing that china has yet to make a major breakthrough that a a major recipient state although of course the smaller volumes they can have a significant impact on the power or internal conflict and dynamics of the number of states depend upon china. it is also perhaps worth realizing russia's taking concerns with regard to china emerging as a potential rival into the established markets that we've seen since 2010 significant efforts of the russian site to focus more upon the competitor in the medium term. with regard to the recipients,

the headline we had this year as the top five recipients all based in a shed. but i think it is also worth noting in 2011 we saw major data being concluded the states in the middle east. when it comes to the top five with india there is number one accounting for about 10% of the volume of arms imports and it is to remain a major importer in the coming years. livers of aircraft, vessels, artillery expected to continue at a significant rate as india modernizes and upgrade its armed forces. the drivers are obviously with regards to the regional situation, the traditional rival, internal conflicts and also to some degree a desire to protect power at a greater distance focused on the maritime dimension with the aircraft carrier for a show perhaps this year, perhaps next to promise is always seemed to go back here each time recovery. and also very submarine.

although russia has enjoyed its dominant position as india's main supplier, was in competition from european suppliers come israel emerging as a significant supplier and of course the u.s. seeking a greater share of the market. germany with regard to these top-five importers, one of the tendencies we know is a tendency for raises production engagement with indigenous reduction facilities and discount for a significant share of deliveries we call with regards to china, india, singapore and south korea. now the record of using a licensed production technology transfers to build and develop them in just arms industry is a mixed record in some cases very limited. we see another challenges in this regard, china has been more successful in recent years and was south korea developing

issues. i think it's also worth noting many of these cases are not just seeking production capabilities for their own national but also export sales as i mentioned earlier. although many of these products still rely upon the falling. but the attention of the curse of deliveries is in the middle east too. the volume of deliveries during 2007 until 2011 has declined the percent is the only region where he noticed a decline but it's worth stressing it's not necessary result of the arab spring at most notable decline in deliveries to israel and the united arab emirates which are taken deliveries of major combat aircraft in previous periods and has been a steep decline in these cases. it is also worth highlighting that saudi arabia is just outside the top 10 are just arms importers that is what we expect to see in this field very soon. i'm going to livers of mashers

mega-jail, perhaps the largest in decades if not longer with regards to more than 150 new and rebuilt the 15th in the u.s. amongst other systems. before moving onto my concluding remarks, i'll mention the rise of iraq, which has risen to just the top 242,007 until 2011 as it seeks to rebuild its armed forces and security forces. international assistance but also going alone in seeking its own supplies, we've also noted in a similar regard afghanistan increasing significantly, too. my concluding remarks and a plug for the sipri database is there is a lot more information and data that is more interesting than the top five supplies and recipients i presented today and i would recommend people to check it out and play with it all and which you can find their is transfers perhaps now between the largest supplies and recipients, but which may be concerned of a variety of

reasons. as chantel mentioned, reactions and north africa between nature and morocco, southeast asia at a concert for me because my regional interests, observation on and on the net. one can also locate information on who is plans for internal repression in syria or other state in the middle east. one can also identify transfer as excessive or two whether they're appropriate. the acquisition of the multiyear combat aircraft supposedly seems excessive in my view and perhaps including buchanan department also uses information and find them useful starting point for other nonconventional is, too. there are arms using conflicts. canisius about the amalia and we are obviously identifying supplies of those to provide information in terms of when deliveries are made and in some cases the value of those deals. but the important thing for us is this information can form international and domestic discussions on procurement and

export controls and i leave it at that. thank you and i leave it at that. thank you and i leave it at that. thank you the mac all day. i would like the mac all day. i would like to begin by pinky and sipri for not only today's event that their invaluable contributions to the field. i cannot think of a project i worked on in the last for years that you have haven't used the arms transfer database and frankly i think i'd be lost without it. so keep up the good work. my presentation is based on insights that we've gleaned over the course of a four-year study in unauthorized trades him after his global trade in weapons that we are wrapping up now and is sponsored by a survey in geneva. the purpose of this study is twofold. the first is to derive an annual estimate the global color value for the trade in weapons, parts,

accessories and ammunition that debatably as important if not were important is to do a comprehensive assessment of all major sources of data on weapons and to assess this. this is important because it is very hard to have a meaningful discussion about policy issues concerning small arms that might weapons if you don't have good data on what is being exported, where and to whom. what we have discovered is that this data is partial at best. i think i am going to skip this slide actually just in the interest of time with some of the sources that reassess. obviously i don't have time to go through all of our findings today, but i did want to highlight a couple of key characteristics of our understanding of the small arms trade. the first being the huge difference in our knowledge

about small arms transfers regionally. transfers to, within and from europe, north america and to a lesser, south america and the pacific region is much better. it is much better documented, much more detailed than data to those parts of the rest of the world. there are exceptions such as south korea, the general speaking the data is much stronger on this region than others. the same applies to the categories of weapons that we studied. for example, firearms is master of us than data i might weapons ammunition. useful data, disaggregated detailed data is almost impossible to find for most countries. we approached dozens of governments and scours sources and found what we believe to be fairly comprehensive data on counter 11. so huge disparities in the data

on that. and similarly for accessories, weapons sites, fire control system which finders come into devices, these are other important items on the modern battlefield and it did on it is anemic to say the least. and man, also big differences in terms of completeness and specificity of national reporting on transfers, even to the same mechanisms. since the u.n. register of arms for example, some of the reporting is very, very good, very detailed and other reporting is inconsistent and comparatively weak. finally, our research allows us to identify sometimes, some of the events in transparency and to identify some simple ways that transparency can be

increased. so, one of the ways in which transparency is improving as more a byproduct of the change in the way the communicate and communications technology than a deliberate effort to improve state recording on arms transfers. the proliferation of smartphones, digital cameras, video transferred when coupled with increasing usage of online filesharing sites such as youtube has yielded some remarkably interesting and useful information, information we may not have acquired other words or certainly wouldn't have acquired as quickly. this is a screenshot from a video that appeared on youtube in january 2009 on military in venezuela and its features hugo chavez discussing the recent acquisition of the glass vessels, which is precious latest generation of air defense

systems. we heard rumors about this for months prior to this, but we could not burn through traditional sources and then all of a sudden confirmation via youtube into their search system. and this is not an isolated au pair greasing amazing footage coming out of libya and insurgents in iraq and afghanistan and i think the potential of these sources is great and untapped. and then, regards to improving transparency, youtube alone is not going to fill in the gaps for us regardless of how wonderful we think it is. but there's several other ways to improve transparency, which are fairly simple and not all that complicated. the first is more consistent and more detailed reporting by

states to the register of conventional arms. that mechanism is becoming one of the best sources of data small arms and weapons not covered by trained three databases, which is still king as mechanisms for acquiring data. and while it would be great to have more of the big producers and exporters to report, the other state is equally important that combined the data from importers when analyzed together can fill in gaps left by not reporting by the states that actually export the weapons. and secondly, to the journalists in the audience, when appropriate and when safe, take pictures of the weapons design of the markings on creeds that

you find of weapons and copy and upload shipping documents because a few clicks of the camera and an output and you can reveal the model of the web been committed manufacturing the condition which informs serviceability and the likely threat posed by the weapon, some types of number exploits in the country of manufacture are all incredibly important for assessing brads and arms buildups. all it takes is probably a greater awareness among struggle is that the needed value of doing it. you're not going to win a pulitzer, but the right shot. really revolutionize its probably too strong a word that significantly significantly improve our understanding. and finally for researchers, our experience for this project and other projects is that there is vast, untapped data potential,

sitting on government computers that some, possibly many governments are willing to share. and through -- above improperly relieved. i should make that clear. no one is making that clear. through the freedom of information act and picking up governments we have hundreds of records of accessories that wouldn't otherwise be available in tens of thousands of records on the illicit arms trade, weapons friends arms caches and here are some of the examples of weapons or photos we have acquired through this process and these are photos of browse seized in both their iranian designations and the numbers recently manufactured and the

model and that is that since fran the u.s. government and british government quotas and weapons. one of my personal favorite sites are in there because i think it is amusing is the headmounted c-5 k. rocket launcher they were covered in iraq. so i think i will conclude there, but i would happy to be taking any questions you have. >> okay, thank thank you very m, matt. the careful there and don't do any kind of illicit activity. rachel, please. >> i too want to thank sipri not only for this panel, but as matt said, as those of us who toil in the arms trade world now, if you didn't have a database, you would not be able to do a lot of the work that is necessary. so again i look forward to delving into this year's database a bit more deep way.

it may seem that the arms treaty is a little off topic as we talk about data trends and where things are in terms of major exporters and importers. but i think it gets people thinking about, but this is a billion dollars trade. it occurs all over the world in some of the countries that are the major importers, exporters, raise concerns for various reasons and so it is only natural to think about the types of controls that must be in place to govern those traits. and that many people don't realize is that unlike many other major weapons categories, there really are very few global controls on the arms trade and no, an international standard governing the supply and transfer of conventional arms. but there are many national agreements if you have a whole panel and regional agreements,

on the international arms trade because there are no common global standards, for the last 30 years, there have been a variety of piecemeal at times to try and establish controls over this global trade. in particular, to close the dangerous loopholes that allowed arms to flow to human rights abusers, terrorists, perpetuate conflicts and undermine development of virtually with impunity. and so, decide yet of global standards for a global treaty was now being put to the test really for the first time. this july, states will meet in new york to negotiate a legally binding arms trade treaty with the intent of developing the highest possible common international standards for the transfer of arms. i do want to start.

this didn't just appear out of nowhere. this is not like let's meet in july. and i do want to give a background because i found that as we get closer to july, people's interest in the arms treaty is increasing, but their knowledge base is very very low. so there is a lot of disinformation about what the arms trade treaty is and isn't. so i just want to give a little bit of background on what this movement is about. so, the arms trade treaty really originated from the noble peace international code of conduct on arms transfers launched in 1995. it was used, but the big launch within the t. 95. the treaty proposed global principles porting the export of conventional armed another next-day coder so these ideas were further developed by ngos and supportive government, taking into account regional initiatives developing at the

same time. so the discussion outside the u.n. led to the passage of a u.n. general assembly resolution in 2006 that was entitled towards an international arms trade treaty establishing common international standards for the import expert transferred of conventional arms. the u.n. is really the first on the water so to speak on this issue. and the resolution calls for the u.s. secretary-general to seek views of member states and to establish a panel of governmental experts to see if this idea was even feasible. that group included its work in august of 2008 and recommended maybe the u.n. should dabble a little bit more over 100 member states actually presented their views to the secretary-general, which is unheard of to have that higher the level of participation.

and the u.n. then move to the next phase to develop an open-ended working group in 2009. that open-ended working group worked at the scope parameters and feasibility of this idea. after one year, the general assembly then voted to begin actual negotiations on an arms trade treaty that will culminate in this conference of july this year. but since 2010, the u.n. has engaged in purgatory committee meetings. this committee meetings held in 2010, 2011 and most recently in february we looked at the potential elements of the treaty. the scope of the treaty, which should be included, the criteria that states could use to determine whether to transfer arms. the national measures necessary to implement a treaty, the types of assistance that states might need to fulfill their obligations at the treaty among

many other topics. so just to give you a flavor above is discussed to consolidate all of these meetings into a few sentences. the scope of the arms treaty might include all conventional weapons, which could include smaller weapons, ammunition, even the components necessary to make all of those weapons. the scope is not just include the types of weapons going to be covered. it also includes the types of transactions because you say transfer, the transfer could mean a lot of things. it could be import, export, translate, brokering, transshipment, you name it. any process getting a weapon system for a to b. might be included within the scope. the criteria of the treaty could include prohibition if there is a substantial risk to commit serious violations of international law such as janice

knight for crimes against humanity or war crimes. or it may say that states shouldn't transfer weapons used to support terrorist organizations or it may simply say a list of things they should take into account when determining whether to authorize the transfer of arms such as socioeconomic or sustainable development. the at&t will be implemented by states and national battle. there is no supranational body coming in and saying to states, you can transfer this or you can't transfer that. national sovereignty will remain paramount. the treaty will likely describe the what it sees should include in their national system, but probably will not provide the precise details of how to do it to be left up to national government to decide. clearly this is a daunting task. the international arms treaty as

we have heard is quite complicated in trying to distill it into a comprehensive treaty will be quite a challenge. as part of the work, the chairman of the process it was roberto garcia of argentina did his best to try to summarize the myriad fears of member states. so he produced a chairman's draft paper, which some of you might have seen, that will be a reference document for the treaty negotiations, but i want to stress this is not a treaty text, nor is it the basis for negotiations and that is an important distinction. it includes many of the ideas for an arms treaty that had been proposed by member states and as a result has a lot of contradict three, unclear, underdeveloped ideas as well as things that are completely impractical or whatever as they would be

unnecessary. that has been very frustrating for member states and civil society. but i believe the papers served a useful service and gave us of the structure of the treaty, which saved us a lot of time in july. it allows states to present all of their views on arms trade treaty and it's an important confidence building measure. when you work an international system, particularly the u.n. is good for states to understand no one is prejudging the outcome. this hasn't developed. the hd was not developed in advance all be sprung on straight in july. so where does that leave us? between now and into july, july, states are developing their national -- okay. [laughter] maybe we won't be meeting in july. i don't know what that means. >> i would interpret that as assigned. >> i am looking for half-full, half-empty science.

so, states are developing national divisions. the end goal of course is to end up in july with an arms treaty developing standards to curb the international and irresponsible and illegal trade. what those comments about the att and want to make two points i want has been raised already because paul taught about looking at potentially troubling trends of the export of conflict areas were two particularly regimes are human rights abusers. the att ivc is not a panacea that will stop arms sales that we would rather not see. but what it will do is make it more difficult for states exporting arms to does to justify them because there will be more scrutiny about international arms sales and will start to create norms about

arms sales. so give states a tool in their foreign policy toolbox. and just again, to plug sipri's work and the importance of transparency, sipri's work with the a lot easier statius made this information available and we didn't have to dig quite so much. so presumably they will be a transparency aspect to the arms trade treaty that will hopefully allow this information to be presented in a standardized consistent and regular manner, which will make all this work easier. so in conclusion, in my opinion the att needs to be part of goal and affect it and we need to balance the very worthy aspirations and ideals concerning the arms trade with the reality of the global arms trade, which we have heard on this morning.

it is not going to have to have a treaty at the end of the day to legitimize his irresponsible transfers or lease is such a burdensome system that hinders the legitimate trade and nobody wants to be part of that. so lastly, unlike other conventional arms treaties, i want to stress that att is not like banning other things. it is like developing for the first time the rules of the game and clear international standards. so we will see how states deal with that task in july. >> thank you very much, rachel. as for helpful to provide background. let me turn to bill. how does the united states advocation quick >> let me start off by thanking sipri for this vital effort over

the years. it has played a crucial role in defense matters before it became internationally acceptable to discuss these matters. discussions like today are particularly welcome because it means it is continuing to do its vital work and we are here to enjoy the fruits of its labor. a year not to address the trends in international trade as paul did and not dead, but rather to talk about two of the instruments that provide information and one being created that will also as well. conventional arms transfers are crucial security concern for the united states and they've always supported action to control the international transfer of arms. internationally than pursuing on the two friends came here to talk about today. the conventional farms in the proposed arms trade treaty that will negotiate in july. the u.n. register or send the first resolution established a multistep process to operationalize a voluntary

transfers. it was intended to help identify -- help prevent the destabilizing accumulation of arms to promote stability and strength international peace and security taken into account legitimate security needs of states in principle to diminish security at the lowest possible level of armaments. by any measure the register has been a resounding stress in the transparency and accountability of military matters and reinforcing through a control to military. during its 19 years of operations for the 100 states have participated at least once. within 140 states participated three more times in more than 100 p. to 57 times. 50 have participated every year. participation from 72 to 126 states. both exports and imports has captured the vast majority of the international arms trade of

seven categories. even though some states may not participate in the register in a given year may never have participated to capture transfers regarding many they have any exporting state report on the transfer even if the import is not on the transfer. one mistake many make in considering the volume of the international trade to conclude the register because the arms trade has not shrunk since the register was created and that is the wrong end of things. the question is not whether he succeeded in reducing the size of the international arms trade, but rather whether it has contributed to restraining its growth. another is, with the size of the trade be at the register did not exist. i think that unquestionably be larger and more excessive and destabilizing arms would occur but irresponsible arms. you should irresponsible transfers brings me to my second topic, the arms trade treaty. the arms trade treaty would be quite different as it is created

for a different reason and is based on different premises. the att is aiming to address the overarching international instrument to regulate the international trade in conventional arms. when connected responsively transfers are legitimate enterprise. the international arms trade provides nations that material necessary of the basic functions of the government, protecting citizens and enforcing national sovereignty. patients at the right to defend themselves. as we all know, there's a dark saint arms transfers that a devastating consequence for people and regions. irresponsible transfers support terrorists and enable genocide and create and sustain compound proliferation nightmares. the att discussions that demonstrate the sheer of distressed at illicit analogize transfers by member countries and organizations. that is what we need att to better control the worst transfers across international

borders. the united states is actively pursuing the robust treaty that contains the highest legally binding the transfer of conventional weapons and they recognize an arms treaty will not be the be-all or end-all and will deter or stop terrorism. so could legally binding instruments are meaningless to such people because they are criminals who don't abide by any agreements. this means the only way to inhibit activities indirectly. all states must recognize the obligation within their territory to criminalize, isolate within their territory were suckered from transactions that transfer to territory. the state claims sovereign jurisdiction does not have capability to such enforcement community must work with us to develop such a capability. the united states is acutely aware of the key role that arms transfers plana national security national security of most states they must take that

into account in deciding the transparency for provisions have been att, tailoring them to meet the post subject is. we need to make sure the reporting machine does not conflict with other regimes and create reporting on arms transfers. i can tell you the state of one of the burdens we have is collect indicated that we've been referring to nationally. we also report internally as we are very transparent in reporting things to capitol hill and it does take a great deal of effort to do all the reporting submissions we have to do. the reporting is not being done for the sake of transparency for its own state but rather to provide other state parties of information they need to judge how it is being tried in practice. it should require state parties to report annually to other state parties on their implementation of the treaty and on either physical transfer of arms or authorization for transfer of arms. in reporting on implementations can a state party should report

on actions they've taken during their period to implement the treaty and any changes to national system of controls. the united states is open to the idea that other state parties may be required for only some of the items to control. a good starting point would be the arrangement arms list. the united states strongly opposes supporting on the authorization even in the aggregate since this can involve sensitive national security or commercial information we don't want to have the reporting service and irresponsible exporter about marketing opportunities. some may wonder if the atto render the u.n. and the want to subsume in the atto do away with it completely. i would be extremely unfortunate. these two instruments are designed to achieve different goals and will have different participants. many will participate in old, but not all. given the register involves political commitment while ett lump all the legal transfer as

part of a broader commitment to put in place a national system of controls, i expect participations to far outstrip the att for years to come once we actually have been att. i expect some countries who participate will not be interested in joining an arms trade treaty. we need to maintain the register is the distinctive viable instrument to continue to fulfill its object is of conventional arms transfers. we need to promote a strong and effective att as a means to promote common international standards for the conventional arms. both times have a role to prepare any arms as does sipri. thank you. >> thank you very much, bill. i would like to open it up to the audience. that may be i will take the prerogative of the chair here and ask for a little bit of background. one of the questions i had is how does the current adverse to try to control conventional weapons relate to how fares within the 70s had the top

costs and wonder if anyone can talk about that. the second question i would have is that looks like states have recognized and you mention this in particular, two, the importance of transparency measures, yet at the same time we've seen a decline in the reporting of the u.n. register. and so, you know, what does this mean for our future efforts on the at&t? do any of the panelists wants to go? >> well, for my perspective, let me first address the decline of participation over the last couple of years. it is indisputable that participation has gone down. it used to be between 90 and 125 countries that participate on an annual basis and over the last couple of years it has declined to be in the middle 70s. that is indisputable. the question is why you have the

decline. we think you got it for a couple of reasons. one is the failure of the register to do small weapons as a category. it means the register is less relevant to security concerns of many states around the world or nonthreatening by the register of the categories, combat aircraft, they are more threatened by proliferation of small weapons and it is straight up weapons or the register has an optional eight categories below that is that is only optional and i think the states in africa and latin america are the connected to a failure to register to include small arms to participate because it does not actually directly affect my reporting on it. i think also that there is turnover in personnel at the u.n. office of that implement the register, which i suspect

that their ability or their willingness to go on and contact member states and remind them that they need to report data and basically pursue to the registrar. that is definitely the last couple of years. finally think also states are looking at the fact we have an arms trade treaty negotiations starting this summer and wondering what is going to come from not in focusing attention on att and not on the register. i think they are waiting to see the shoe drop in come from that and thinking if we have an arms trade treaty, maybe you will not need to have a register or provide data. as i argued before, don't be shortsighted. some of them are waiting for the att negotiation to see what the obligation as on the data. >> anybody want to have anything? let me open it up. please identify yourself and maybe we'll take a few questions.

[inaudible] >> can you talk about monopoly of force? must be very difficult to know unless the project is ricci never shared -- [inaudible] does it look as if the monopoly is gaining or losing position in the world? >> so many are in the front. >> good morning. my name is angelina from the university of georgia. first of all -- audio back thanks for putting together a very interesting panel. i have two questions if you allow me. the first round goes to paul on the panel. you mentioned one of the trends.

one of the worrisome trends in the arms market in the type of transfers we see more and more a. do you see that as a call for looking at trade controls and how we monitor and control the capability to update equipment as something that we need to look at over the inspect her and how does that relate to the discussion regarding the arms trade treaty and the possibility and reference? the second question to you as quite frankly our friend down south is waiting in terms of you to wait, but how do we perceive

this kind of social media, tweaking and face poking and u2 been these kinds, how do you weigh that and the possibility of tweaking the competition or putting a picture in the wrong place. how can you evaluate this type of information? because anyone together with anything in that post it somewhere? thank you. >> tall, would you like to take a stab? >> i was going to have to die to tracking one of the things we have noticed in the note reports in this bill was suggesting it is those states who feel that the relevance of the att with regards to whatever happens to report, sort of maybe comes through and not pushing those states to sort of see the value in the confidence building is one of the things that is key

they are. with regards to our arms transfers database come we don't do such a transfers to states, but not state that tours. i guess compared with matt, we have much fewer transfers so that we do antitank guided weapons, which you will see was some state, also some nonstate actors because we are not tracking databases within the mission and the small arms and weapons, we have some evidence and information that the public databases much as matt is probably finding that the illicit arms project. that said, but also of a project a project baring accounting illicit trafficking which pays a lot of attention to looking at preventing trafficking by air and on maritime and looking at ways of exploring these particular issues. with regards to the trends in terms of transferring more than

just a complete system, but the means to produce the components coming from different areas, i think and i guess it really talks to the att discussions i guess in ensuring that the states have decent export control systems in place. with talking with licenses, one of the things they raised is the fact they take into account when doing risk assessments is whether they have the export control systems with how they regarded internationally. i think that is a key aspect there is something that was certainly flagging up here for us, one of the things it shows is a biased market. i think will be receiving some of the recipients were able to put great demands on supplies in the past in you see transfers of not more advanced equipment at the means to produce. i think that really talks to the att were in the discussion same is to dare, you have people talking about the other groups

of suppliers and recipients that are much busier today in much or complicated as you said. and that to be arty types of the need to have some global instrument. i am also putting on masks social media play because ethiopian materials and it's the same as also had the still images as well. with regards to the information we have, where the private database where we keep some of the rumors, the kookier staff as well as the things that we think are really interesting and we cannot verify. so if we have a one image, might be quite cautious. what we found that this multiway hath we are able in many cases to cross check and verify different sources and although there might be a time lag or something from 2011 that we would like to put in the database for the public that we're just not confident, will sit and wait that we are happy to speak with people if they have a query. to have information about such and such a transfer? we are happy to share that with

the caveats. >> yeah, i decide to jump in on a couple points as well. on the nonstate actors piece today, the treaty would really only look at state to state transfers. so one of the goals of cores with you to prevent diversion into the illegal market and the stuff in the legal market and set emus by nonstate areas. so there is a link to the nonstate act varies, but it is a very politically sensitive issue at the u.n. because some nonstate actors are seen as more desirable than others in another safety in terms of allowing them to require weapons. and so, the arms trade is most likely only going to focus on the states themselves. on the building of equipment and technology transfer, that may in fact be within the scope of the arms trade