buy the book 25% goes to conservative causes. >> host: which causes. >> guest: we're going to support whoever republican nominee and also targeting senate voting we think is going to make a big difference in the election. >> host: what other books have you written and what's your daily job? >> guest: that's an interesting question. my wife and i, who cowrote the book, are sales trainers. and we decided to take a year off to get involved politically, and we thought, what are our talents? well, we speak and we train and we write. that's what we do. so we're taking this year off to market this book, to raise money, and to raise awareness. >> host: "what would lincoln say" is the name of the book. >> next we talk to liberty university professor michael babcock about his book "unchristian america."

>> host: you're watching book tv on c-span2, and we are on location as part of our university series at liberty university in virginia, talking to some professors who are also authors, joining us now is michael babcock, his book "unchristian america: living with faith in nation that was never under god." professor babcock, let's start with the subtitle. >> guest: that is a pretty pointed subtitle. and speaking first as an author, i have had the experience of writing titles for books that get shelved -- the titles -- and that was one that developed in the course of publication but it is a fair and accurate representation of the basic argument of the book. >> host: which is? >> guest: that the notion that america is a -- in some sense that is meaningful at all a clip nation is something that is subject to being challenged, and i try to challenge it in this

book and drive at the heart of what does that mean to claim that america is a christian nation, and it's christian only in culture in some sense, and that as christians we need to understand what that means if -- we're going to live well and effectively with faith. >> host: give an example what you mean. >> guest: it's a historical command theme that this country was founded by pilgrims, by christians who came with a certain religious orientation, and that's the story we learned in elementary school, and growing up. i'm not sure that's the case anymore. but in that case our institutions, our frame ofwork, it's not terribly controversial to say that our institutions were framed by christian values, and the judeo^- christian ethick and that's a kind of cultural argument to make. but at the end of the day what

are the then defending if we say this is a christian country? as a christian i have been called to defend more than that. i i've been called to speak with conviction to more than that. and to speak to something that transcendses any given culture, and speaking as a christian, i am a christian who happens to be an american, and i travel widely throughout the world, and i travel to nepal and i speak in churchs there and engage pastoral training there, and i work with christians who happen to be nepalies or indians, and it's very important as a christian to keep that perspective and that's a central argument i try to brick out. >> host: when you hear people say america is an exceptional nation, do you agree, disagree? >> guest: that's a great question. there's no doubt i think that america is exceptional. but the doctrine of american exceptionalism is a very, very tricky and controversial idea to engage in. usually that's meant -- it's

bound up in the ideas of destiny, and it's bound up in the idea that we are in some sense a god ordained nation or a god commissioned people. and i want to challenge that very directly. because there are a lot of people in the course of human history who have claimed that. and one of the cultures i discuss specifically in the back is that of ancient rome, and central to ancient rome and self-ideal was the notion that they were called out by the gods with a specific mandate and that was to conquer people and to extend roman ideas and roman values throughout the world. >> host: so, therefore? >> guest: their i think that calls into question the premise what it means to say that america is a god-called, god-ordained, god-destined nation. and there's no question in my mind against speaking as a christian that god works in

history. i believe that. i believe that god is a sovereign god of history. but to say that the united states is a new israel, which is a very common idea in 19th 19th century political ideology, and in large measure has been adopted by some on the religious right, and -- who believe that america is a kind of new israel, and called to a particular mission within the world. that's what i want to call into question. because god is doing his work in the world, but i believe that god is doing his work through the church, doing his work through people who follow jesus christ in their lives, and in their everyday lives. >> you've write that america is moving to be more secular. is that necessarily a bad thing? does that mean we're not defending our cultural tradition? >> guest: no. the argue. i make is purely historical, and i'm really calling my fellow

christians to recognize the forces of modern history. that is, that america is becoming more secular not because prayer was taken out of the schools, as we often here in the early 1960s, and without the sum water shed in the secularization of america and i argue that the secularization of america is a new jersey-long process, so is secularization of the western world. the modern age from the -- really the last five or six hundred years has been the story of the ascendancy of a secular, materialallistic point of view and values are marginalized and we're seeing that in western europe but we're part of the same process. a kind of in that sense, inevitable movement of modern history, and christianity is certainly a historical force within culture, and our values and our beliefs should not be secularized in that sense or

shouldn't fall under that. we should transcend that and rise above that. >> host: you close your become by talking bat visit you -- about a visit you made to nepal. >> guest: that was very powerful event for me. i was actually planning to go to nepal right around the time when the founder of our institution, the late chancellor, dr. jerry falwell, passed away, and that was a very moving experience around here, around this campus, and those who have been here for quite a while remember him very fondly for his vision and what his commitment was, not just to this institution but to our nation and to our culture, and yet it put things into perspective for me as well, because i remember increasingly how dr. falwell in the last number of years spoke increasingly about the role of the church, the role of christians in their everyday lives, living out the mandate of

following christ and how that's what has transforming power. more than what candidates we elect or what policies we see put in effect in the houses of congress. and i heard him say those things. he who is so much associated with the rise of the religious right over the last generation, and i thought about that much when i was overseas and saw the power of the message of christ that works in a place like nepal. so that's when we crystallized that message that following christ is something that transcends the claims of any particular culture, no matter how much we are a part of or we love the culture we're in. >> host: professor babcock, you mentioned jerry falwell's role in the rise of the religious right. the title of your book, the thesis of your books has that created some controversy on the right? >> guest: i've had some good and interesting conversations with colleagues. it's important to emphasize that liberty university is an

academic institution. we're a community of scholars who follow christ, and we debate and discuss things and we have differences of perspectiveties, and that's not widely known outside the walls of our institution. but it's very important for people to know that. that within that community of fellowship and believers, we disagree about issues, and at the bottom -- the bottom line at the end of the day, we're on the same page when it comes down to core values. >> host: that dot you teach here? >> guest: i teach humanities. >> host: which is? >> guest: i teach the history of we were culture. i teach the values i'm discussing in this book. and that's one of the things that really led me to take that centuries long view of these issues. i think we can take a very narrow cramped view from one election to another, and as the one election -- we're in an election year and one election is the watershed