and information differently. we try to broaden the scope of intelligence available and to deepen it. so to take one example before 9/11 because the civil liberties concerns which are valid at the time that they were put into place, we intentionally prohibited our intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies from sharing and communicating information. ..

bin laden's operation was a brilliant military operation in which all americans were proud, but what people don't realize the military carries out operations like that every day. >> you can watch this and other programs online out booktv.org. >> now, a few interviews from the college series. book tv spoke to several authors and professors at liberty university this month. you can see a few of these interviews every sunday at 1:00 p.m. earn and 1:00 a.m. eastern. first we talk to recent na lindevaldsen. >> host: who is lisa miller? >> guest: a woman i met almost a decade ago. i -- had been involved in a

moment osexual relationship and had custody of her biological child born during the civil union relationship, and she found herself in the midst of a case of first impression in the nation, battling to keep her child from herself and away from her former same-sex partner. >> host: what was the case? >> guest: the case was the court treated it like a divorce case, between in this case two women. so the case came up -- her daughter at that time was 18 months old, had been born in virginia. virginia doesn't recognize same-sex relationship. but the couple hat gone to vermont, entered into save union came back to virginia, lisa got pregnant through artificial insemination, and then later she left the relationship, came back

to virginia, and she is filing papers in vermont to dissolve her civil union, and to her surprise her former partner asked for custody of the child, and that started the lit gigs in vermont over custody of the child, and also in virginia. >> host: how did you get involved? >> guest: we were contacted by lisa shortly after she filed suit in vermont. >> host: we? >> guest: liberty counsel was contacted by lisa mill are. >> host: which is? >> guest: a nonprofit legal organization. we do educate and policy and litigation issues related to traditional families and liberties. so liberty counsel was contacted, and she asked to us represent her because she realized pretty quickly in vermont that the court was going to treat her former partner has a parent to lisa's child and then was going to be giving visitation and possibly custody to her former partner, and she

contacted liberty counsel looking for help on what she argues was her constitutional rights as a parent to maintain sole custody of her child. that was in 2004, eight months before she initially filed suit in have the. >> host: why did it take seven years to work its way through the court. >> guest: vermont in the first year issued a temporary order giving visitation to the former partner. then lisa filed a suit in virginia, realizing that point that vermont was a lost cause for her. she filed a separate suit, lisa, in virginia, asking under virginia law to declare this virginia born child be lisa's child because under virginia law lisa is the only mother to that child. then you have things slowed down because two states were involved. but it was a slow process. a long time with the custody. the court in vermont was setting precedent, creating new law, and it admitted it was creating new

moms by having two mom for a child in vermont. the court was cautious. i have to give it credit, in forging the new path, but that's why it took so long and the court was hesitant to completely take her child from her but in the end it did after six or seven years of litigation, order lisa to turn her child over toant. >> the vermont court? >> the vermont cot. >> guest: again, it's because vermont saw this as just like marriage between a husband and wife and if one spouse is not giving visitation to the other spouse, which lisa did stop giving visitation, she argued to protect her child, the vermont court did what under its own view now of families, was going to do, which was order lisa to give up her child because she wouldn't give visitation anymore. >> host: where is lisa now? >> guest: have no idea. the only thing i know there have been some court proceedings taking place, some people arrested two pastors arrested,

helping lisa flee the country. >> host: were they afillitied with liberty coup? >> guest: they were not. they were beg mennite masters, and there's been some coverage on it. that one was a mennonite pastor in nicaragua, and was alleged involved in help are her, and another was a anyone onight, and it seemed at one point she was in nicaragua but that's what i know. >> host: you were lawyer and the court case came down. is then when she fled the country? >> guest: the timing was different. you can imagine over seven years a lot of motions made for changing custody and switching custody, and one had been wait, and we were waiting for the

court to decide. it had a month or so the court hadn't decided so she actually, according to when the papers say she left the country, left a month before the judge issued the order switching custody. >> host: total surprise to you as her lawyer? >> guest: complete surprise. with talk a lot. no secret, we both went to he same church here in virginia. so, i had spoken to her within the week before she left, and she was talking about applying for a job, visiting family members, moving shortly, and then shortly after that it couldn't reach her anymore by e-mail i'm or phone. had no way of getting ahold of her. >> host: that's three years now. >> guest: it is -- yes, three years. >> host: if she came week in states or was discovered the states, legally what would happen to her. >> guest: she right now is facing federal criminal charges. >> host: kidnapping. >> guest: child kidnapping, a federal statute, and allegations

she took her child to prevent visitation and custody on behalf of the other partner and she faces up to three years in jail under federal statute for having taken her child. >> host: if she came back or was arrested here in the states, would you be her lawyer? are you still her lawyer. >> guest: we're technically still her lawyer. the court wouldn't let us get out of representing her. it was hard not being able to contact year, there's a year's worth of litigation that took place after she left, and we asked to be removed by her counsel and the court in vermont wouldn't let us out in virginia there's a pending case that wait for her to return. so we just are still lested as her attorney because we can't ask for permission to withdraw. but i don't know what we would do. i guess it would depend on the case. someone else recently asked us the same question, and just depends on the nature of the charges and if she -- she is entitled to a defense and we know the case well.

we have to cross the bring when it happens. >> host: is your story, the lisa miller story, only one mommy, is it about family law, home sexuality, lisa miller? >> guest: all of that and more. it starts out telling a life story of lisa. i think that's very important to understand from my perspective. i know it's not easy for someone to believe homosexuality but there's an element of choice i believe, and you can find yourself in the lifestyle and have to work to get out of it. she had a very rough child childhood and had a serious of addictions and alcoholism to cutting to drugs, diet pills, and so this was just a -- the last of her addictions she had. she turned to this for answers. i thought it was important for people to understand what woman's story. for her homosexuality was a

choice, and a choice to get out of the lifestyle. so i want everyone to hear the story and churches to hear that story more particularly because i don't think the church does a good enough job ministering to those struggling with homosexuality, we fall short and don't understand it, and imhoping through her story churches will be more involved in reaching out to this, welcoming them into the church and helping them see there's another life choice they could be making. it's also meant to wake up america. i think that -- i know that there is a battle takes fleas the schools and courtrooms and legislatures, and we even know what is taking place. don't think parents and citizens know what is taking place in our schools. there's an overt active agenda to teach the young generation that this lifestyle is acceptable and normal, and from my perspective, and i think biblically it's not, and parents need to know it's taking place so they can make informed decisions and get involved to change the course we're on.

>> host: more and more states are allowing gay marriage. it's working it way through the nine circuit in california. ted was supportive of it. is it inevitable that this country at some point will accept gay marriage? legally? >> guest: well, i think the path we're on right now suggests that's the case. me being a christian, and believing in god's ability to change hearts and minds, i don't know what the future holds. i think it involves a grassroots movement, not just political but a grassroots movement of taking us back to a basic understanding of right and wrong and morals and standing what we believe in. if that were to happen in large measure, don't know this is inevitable. i think we can stop it but if we continue on the path we're on, i think you're right, it is inevitable. >> host: has the practice of family law grown over the last decade?

>> guest: yes. >> host: expanded. >> guest: yes. statistically,y the dockets have increased. what i definitely see where a large expansion is related to issues dealing with same-sex relationships. we're all aware of the legislation taking place. there's a large number of cases taking place in this country where you have former same-sex partners, they want to have their relationship recognized so they can get a divorce and they want to claim parenting rights over the former partner's child. adoption issues. same-sex adoption in one state, they move somewhere else. is florida going do recognize that? those cases are taking place. those are blossom around the country. >> host: is this lisa miller on the cover of your book? that is not lisa miller, no. nor is it janet or isabella .

>> host: is that you. >> guest: that's a stock photo off the internet. >> host: what do you teach at liberty. >> guest: i teach family law for the past six or seven years and then i teach a law studying the constitution, understanding the concept of liberty in government, states rights, and then we take those issues in a the following semester and apply them to current issues in our country to see, did the courts get it right or wrong or what's the right path. i teach those courses and family law and writing courses, i am involved in a moot court program. >> host: where did you go do school. >> guest: new york city, and undergrad at michigan state university. >> host: why did you come to liberty? >> guest: i have to say the best answer is god definitely picked this for my life. i wanted to teach and had given up on that happening, given the

path i had pursued, and he made this available to me. the reason i made it personally is i can't think of a greater way to spend my time than training the next generation in the values i hold and liberty university holds, and sending them out to there transform our legal culture. >> host: so, at what point does the lisa miller story end? >> guest: i would -- i don't know when it ended. legally, when she is found or she comes back, and isabella is 16, 17, 18, and obviously can't be forced to visit somebody. i don't know when that will end if don't think the lisa miller story -- i don't hope it ends. imhoping this message in this book resonates with people struggling with same-sex relationships, resonates with leaders and churches. i don't want it to end which is why i wrote the book so people would take this to heart and do