>> host: former mayor of cincinnati as well, ken blackwell, you're now teaching down here at liberty university. what are you teaching? >> we teach courses on election law as well as the constitution. and looking forward to doing some interdisciplinary work with theham school of government on this practical politics and politics in the era of new immediate a. >> host: you teach at the law school here? >> guest: absolutely. >> host: do you see electoral politics in your future again? >> guest: i don't. i have retired. but i have not retreated to the sidelines of politics in the general sense. i still work for candidates. i still enjoy opining, you know, from a different perch. >> host: and ken blackwell's also the co-author of this book "the blind.

obama's plan to subvert the system and build an imperial presidency." lion's press is the publisher. this is book tv on c-span2. >> now more from liberty university. book tv interviewed professor brian melton about his biography of robert e. lee. this is about half an hour. >> host: on your screen is brian melton's new book "robert e. lee, abiography." professor melton, why have over 2,000 books be written about robert e. lee. >> guest: a fascinating man and integral part of american

history. that simple. and the fact that after the war was over with, when so many people, particularly south of the mason-dixon were so desperate to figure out where could they have won. lee came to epitomize that idea, that if only lee had been in charge the whole time. if only lee had been able to lead them better, then perhaps the south could have won the civil war, and that would be a little bit of a change to to u.. history. >> host: was lee a successful military general? >> guest: yes, he was, and at the same time he wasn't. obviously. on the one hand lee won some amazing battles. you can look at the second bull run as an example. you can look at chancellor'sville, second bull run has been called his greatest victory. i personally prefer chancellor'sville. lee had to take an army outnumbered two to one.

he then split the army in the face of the enemy, flanks the army, almost destroys hooker's -- joseph hooker's right flank, and then at the height of his success, he loses jackson, slows him down for a second, reinforcements start coming up into his rear. he split his army a third time. beats off that attack and then returns in time to chase hooker back across the river. you look at that and you couldn't script that kind of thing. this is not the kind of story you can make up. people would say it wasn't believable. other instances where leading by sheer will power, was able to wherein where other people said it was impossible. outsidery. in 1862, when lee fights the campaign against mclellan, he manages over the course of a week to chase mclellan from the banks of the richmond to the james river, fight0s series of

battles. only wins one. loses the others. sometimes pretty badly. and he still manages to win the campaign. at the same time, i think lee is a human being, had some notable flaws, like we all do, and those flaws and the overall geopolitical situation the south faced, meant that no matter what he did, he was not in a situation to eventually win the war. >> host: what were some of his flaws? >> guest: one was a military -- as a military commander was his inability to confront his men when he was having problems with them. lee was raised by his mother. he only saw his father a few times when he was a child. his father actually died when he was very young. he father was the famous revolutioner in war general white horse harry lee, and lee never managed to hold down a job, never managed to successfully take care of his

family, was constantly entering into all these speculations, and losing badly, and i think when robert lee saw that, he really learned from that, and so he got one half of his driving personality from kind of an idea that he wanted to succeed where his father had failed. at the same time, after his father passed away, he saw a much more gentle and responsible side of parenting from his mother. so, he really seems, when he gets into command to exhibit sort of both sides of in this almost split personality. on the one handobviously, like at chancellorsville, he could have a driving, aggressive personality, where he could enforce his will on a much greater foe and emerge victorious. orbit when he was dealing with his men, if one of them did something he didn't like, lee would very rarely confront them

directly. he would make suggestions. he would say in public -- if they failed too often, he simply compiled them to the western theater, and that did wonders for three a certain extent because he would get rid of the people he wanted to get rid of, but it meant that the confederate western theater was a dump ground for all of these eastern commanders who had shown they weren't up to snuff. and over in the western theater, of course, they're dealing with grant, sherman, james bird eye mcpherson, and if you're second your dregs to take care of grant, and a lot have that had to do with lee's personality and the way he handled problems. >> host: you refer in your book to his savage moods. what did you mean? >> guest: lee had a huge temper. he was sort of like his idol,

george washington. washington was an incredibly controlled individual, and a lot of people don't realize that washington had a horrible temper and when he lost it, he could spew profanity with the best of them. lee was the same way. and that's one of the reasons why he led a self-controlled and isens because he wanted to keep his temper in constant check. >> host: walk us through lee's wife, april, 1865. >> guest: lee by that point had really been ready to give up as an army commander for quite some time. lee was suffering pretty seriously from various medical conditions, but of course at the time he just wrote down to

resume resume tim but probably had to do with heart conditions that contributed to his death. in fact earlier he had actually rein to jefferson davis and asked to be relieved of command. davis, though, was -- he was sold on lee, of course, lee was already then robert e. lee. how do you replace robert e. lee as a confederate general. so he wrote back and said that he trusted lee, that he knew that there was no one else who could do the job better than lee. so from then on out lee fights the best he can, all the way back well into the overland campaign. he fights the best he can, but at the same time he knows it's a losing battle. but it's not his job as a soldier to make that decision as far as he is concerned. so during the last month, lee is just barely holding on. what had been going on is grant

is constantly getting reinforcement in the trench, everytime grant gets reinforcements he stretches his line farther and farther towards the railroad lines leading into rifled. when grant gets to the point where he think his has lee overextended, he orders an attack. this is a process that repeats itself. lee repels the attack. grant extends, extend, extends, probes again. finally, just gets to the point where lee realizes he doesn't have the ability to continue this -- to continue the war. and so he sort of bets it all on one last attempt to break the union line. he sends his most trusted commander he has left -- one of his most trusted commanders, gordon, on an attack that successfully breaks the federal line but then fails miss

errable. when grant realizes that he launches counterattacks at multiple places. lee is not able to fix it. he ordered the evacuation of the confederate capitol, and from then on it is literally almost a dog chasing its game type of situation, where lee is desperately trying to stay ahead of grant, and grant is carving up huge chunk office what was left of his army. lee -- >> host: did lee have a destination? >> guest: he was headed first for amelia courthouse in virginia to try to get -- try to be resupplied. but grantee -- grantee vandally catches up with him at appomattox. grant can get ahead of lee, and lee only has 25,000 men left.

>> compared to? >> guest: compared to grant's well over hundred thousand total. lee does not want to surrender still. he knows it's inevitable. some of his top commanders, the ones that are festival -- still left, start talking about surrender. lee sacks some of them rather than let them talk about it because he wants to send the message, he is the one that will make this decision, no one else. at an mat tax when he realized what he is face, he orders one last assault gordon initially makes some headway, but infantry reinforcements come out, gordon says i can't do it without heavy reinforcements. lee says, that's it, we have had enough, and he sits down to negotiate with general grant. at the time they actually had an opportunity to escape, a new escape route did open up. but lee essentially comes back

and says that, no, it's over. he fought as long as he reasonably can. at that point lee's goal was almost to surrender as honor. he had done everything in his power to continue to fight until there was no more hope, and when there was no more hope, he would not sacrifice his men further. >> host: april 9, 1865. >> guest: lee meets with grant, not far from here. we're. >> host: how did they exchange messages? >> guest: grant initially sends lee a message, and asks that he consider giving up. >> host: that is via a person riding a horse, white flag? >> guest: yes. lee responds that he would be willing to hear grants' terms. grant sends his terms, and lee says he would like to meet with him on -- sorry about that --

that lee would like to meet with him on the next day. the next day, on april 9th, grant attempts to block lee. lee then attempts to escape. when it becomes obvious he will not be able to escape, lee, who had earlier been able to -- who had earlier risen and dressed in his full dress uniform because he knew what was coming -- sends word to grant that he wishes to discuss surrender. at the time the union army was actually considering -- were actually preparing for another massive assault on lee's lines. they send word -- try to find grant. they can't find grant to tell him lee is ready to talk to him. so general mead rescind's grants order and stops a massive slaughter. grant send word back he is come

though front. they agree to meet at the mclean house which is in appomattox. and when lee arrives, grant is dressed in his infamous private's unform. he hadn't taken time to prepare like lee had. they pass a few words back and forth. grant mentions a few things about the mexican war where they both served. lee basically responds politely. and says, let's get down business. grant sits down at a table. he writes out the order -- the terms of the surrender. lee looks over them and makes a few requests, particularly he requests the southern soldiers be able to retain their side arms and they be able to retain their horses. in the southern army, the horses were the personal property of the soldiers. as opposed to the northern army where they were owned by the government. which meant that if the northern

army simply appropriated all the horses, the men who were going home would have no way to raise crops the next year. grant agrees. also orders over 25,000 remarkses -- rations sent to lee's army. they sign the agreement, and lee calls for a traveler and rides off. he ended up in an apple orchard because he is in a strange situation for a man who is so used toking in total control. he has surrendered. he is not in command anymore but he can't leave. he is the army commander so he has to stay nearby to be available for various and sundry issues related to the surrender, and there's an amazing scene where lee is off by himself in the apple orchard and his staff is around the edge of the apple orchard, trying to fend off the people who are here to sort of look at lee.

did you see him? they would let the most distinguished of the men who came to see him, people like george mead, through the cordon, and lee would meet them with a sort of savage cordiality. he was obviously in no mood to be talking but lee would never be rude. when it was over with ask the orders signed, the men had been sent their separate ways, he issued his famous farewell order, where he told his men to be as good as citizens as they were soldiers and then rather sort of anticly mam particularly, he minutes his horse and rides off to richmond where his family was waiting iwant to show this photo from your book. where was this taken who took it. >> guest: that was taken by matthew brady not long after appomattox at the house that lee was staying in with his family in richmond. lee had been in a very strange

situation. he had never actually owned a home, and when the federal troops took arlington, which was his wife's property, he was left essentially homeless, and during the course of the war his family was moved from house to house to house until finally ended enin the house in richmond, virginia 'basically when lee gets there he goes inside and there is a string of visitors beginning to come by, because by this team lee is no longer just a person. no longer even the distinguished virginia gentleman. he is one of the leading generals of the now defeated confederacy, and fans and historians, matthew brady, the photographer, they come by day after day after day. one after another, trying to get in to see lee. trying to get in to talk to himself thankfully, matthew brady was one of the ones who

actually was able to get in to talk to lee. >> host: was that their only meeting? >> guest: i believe so. and they took several photographs, which for us provides one of the few opportunities to see what lee was like. see what the war had done to him over the course of the last four years. >> host: where was robert e. lee when abraham lincoln was assassinated? >> guest: lee was in his house in richmond. i believe. >> host: do we know what his reaction was? >> guest: i don't permanently. -- personally. i hate to say that. >> host: when did robert e. lee die. >> guest: he died in 1870. he was president of the university of -- washington university -- washington college -- sorry -- washington

college in lexington virginia and. he had been working to try to bring the college back and make a difference in the lives of the young men of the south. lee had never been allowed to become a citizen. never allowed to take part in the political processes. lee's big response to the end of the war was to attempt to try to bring the south back by making it a successful part of the union again, and he fought for that, when the opportunity came to become president of the college here, have a chance to change people's views and build them back up where the war had destroyed them. lee that evening had walked to the local church. the church that he was a member of. was talking about expanding the building. and they had a long three or four-hour meeting in which lee sat quietly in the book. didn't really contribute much. finally in the end ofneath said

he would put in the money needed to make the expansion. when he walked home, through the pouring rain, he got home and mary and the children were sitting down to dinner, and mrs. lee had began to chide him for being late. well, as he began to sit down he seemed to have lost his ability to speak. he didn't know what had happened. he sat down and tried to say the blessing and couldn't speak. he couldn't hardly move, and they described him as suddenly sitting very straight, like he knew that his time had come. so that they hustled him off to his bedroom where he slept for a very long period of time, and then they tried to nurse him back to health. unfortunately, through the haze of history, the best historians have been able to work out lee probably suffered a series of strokes that had eliminated his

ability to speak, to expecter to rate, or cough, and he couldn't tell them what they were doing. they were pouring liquids, soups, medicines down this throat and -- some of it was going straight into this lungs and he slowly succumbed to pneumonia over the course of the next few weeks. there's the famous story of his last words being strike the tent. a number of historians don't believe that is actually accurate. they believe that lee by that point didn't have the ability to speak and in fact a number of the family made comments about that time, said that the most intimidating part of waiting with their father was the absolute silence. he didn't speak. didn't move.

just the silence, waiting for the end. >> host: when did robert e. lee become a citizen again? and why wasn't he allowed to become a citizen? >> guest: wasn't allowed to become a citizen because -- well, he was the commanding general of one of the effective armies the north faced in a war that almost destroyed the country. in fact from the perspective of history, lee is lucky he didn't end up being hung or put on trial there had been some talk of that, incidentally, but lee, when it was at its loudest lee applied to grant and said under the tumor0s the surrender, any soldier who surrenders and abide biz the surrender agreement cannot be harass odd be the go. so grant used his authority and his power to intervene on lee's behalf and put down all talk of lee being tried. lee was trying to set the best example he could for all of the men in the south, and everytime anyone would write to him to try

to convince -- try to ask him, shoot we do, how should we respond? his responses were consistent. you need to be strong, you need to be honest. you need be good citizens. you knee to be part of the political process. you need to work within the name. sort of day one, get used it to. so lee was trying to do -- set the best example. so he early on wrote to the president, asking for a pardon. well, never made it to the president. ended up in the hands of secretary of state william seward, and seward took one look at it and decided he wasn't going to pass it along. seward in fact gave it to a friend friend as a keepsake, so what president johnson would have done with that is not clear but he never had the thank you. lee's request for citizenship was lost for over -- for over 100 years. and eventually it was found during gerald ford's presidency and was brought back out. ford formally offered lee a

pardon and restored him to citizenship. >> host: you close your book by saying it's important to remember that robert e. lee was human. >> guest: a lot of people if you pay any attention the civil war history circuit -- i shouldn't say history -- the civil war recent actment circuit, the people who are interested it in, they tend to look at lee as thomas conly said, as the marble man. lee was the man who was perfect. he never did anything wrong. that transformation began to take place really to certain extent during the war aviate as he became more and more famous. even after the war ended, he still shared the stage in terms of fame, even here in virginia, with people like stonewall jackson, joe sov e. johnson, albert sidney johnston to a certain extent, and the pressure

was, who was going to sort of be the face of the south after the civil war? well, lee had a group of very dedicated adherents. people like ubile early. whos actually buried here in lynchberg, and through their actions you begin to see the construction of lee as something that was much bigger than just a normal human being. lee, for instance, never lost a battle. he only wore himself out whipping the yankees. all of these reasons why lee was perfect and there were other things that sort of -- there were other things that dragged him down. it was like tragic situations. get good-gettysberg.

people whatnot to know why lee lost? someone asked george picket what he thought happened. did longstreet make the mistake in over here, over there? and picket responded he always thought the yankees had something to do with it, which i think hits the nail right on the head, whatever you think of picket. lee did make some mistakes, but george mead did some things right, too. as time goes along lee becomes a regional hero, then a sectional hero, and eventually in the 20th century he is treated by people like woodrow wilson as a national hero, the very best of a defeated section, the very best of a lost way of life. they conveniently forget to mention this way of life was pushing slavery. until you get to the point where people really don't even think -- they don't even know lee as a human being. they know lee as the legend.

they know lee as the the invincable commander, the perfect christian gentleman, whereas the actual human being, robert e. lee, standing in those boots, making those mistakes, making good choices, tens to get lost. i don't think lee himself would recognize himself with some of the legends of that have been built up around him. so the job of a lot of lee historians has been to cut through that and get back to the basic person that is robert e. lee, and that's what i tried do in any book. >> host: we have been talk agent liberty university with history prefer brian melton about his new book "robert e. lee acres biography." thank you for your time. >> guest: thank you very much.

>> i graduated from the air force came in 2009, and certainly a went to my training and was blackmailed be by instructor there, changing my test scores, harassing me constantly, and i turned in my instructor, and that instructor ended up turning around and outing me. i was removed from my job. took away my ability to access computers. actually worked at the travel office during this team, and secretary gates came out with the new policy that third-party outings weren't allowed anymore. but i got so frustrated with "don't ask, don't tell" i decided to turn around and help create and build a network to start to network together and then collectively voice our concerns to the military and to the public, and while the people that contributed toed the book or members and what we did was using media and started to

connect gaysomes -- gay soldiers and to this date we have 4700 members across the globe that have the support that are no longer alone and that are able to meet on a regular basis and have that support right now even post the "don't ask, don't tell" era. but i guess the two big reasons i agreed to do this project was i think it's really important to give the courage that there are gay people in the military right now. i remember reading a book of a gay service member and getting courage from that. so i hope by puting up these stories, i look to pick it up and people that are thinking about serve realize there's so many of us out there that are gay and it's okay, and secondly to change the mines. when i gave this back to someone at my base he was person that was very against the repeal've "don't ask, don't tell," a day later he came back to me and, this is the