the absolute antichrist. they are fighting for civilization itself. what will come to an end of far side doesn't win this war. and that is one of thei .. that i think make meaningful negotiations impossible between 1814 in 1818. but there is always a few minutes here and veneer put on any kind of war. you know, look at the changing array of motives that were behind the u.s. war on iraq. you know first it was because saddam had allegedly weapons of mass destruction. whoops, they are fair. well, we're going to overthrow an evil to tater and install democracy in the heart of the arab world did you know, the motives keep changing, but there always could motives been cited. so i think the main thing is that you have to look behind, beyond what governments are

saying and look at what the real things are that are driving the worst because they will always put some kind of humanitarian veneer on it at almost all times and places. >> with a little less than five minutes. >> it's been a really interesting panel. my question is i guess for ms. or nagorski. through the years i've always thought a lot about why people didn't see what was going on in germany. i hate to bring up another book, but there is a book that recently came out in the garden of the beast. >> i've heard of it. >> yes, my take on that list there was such a strong atmosphere anti-semitism in the american government at that time that they weren't really seen what was going on. that was my take on the book. i wonder if you could comment on that. >> erstwhile yes, i have the dots, william.the ambassador in

the 30s and his daughter in my book as well. i got from the beginning of world war i, and of world war i right up through the internment or end of 1941 at pearl harbor. but there's no question that we tend to forget how routine anti-semitism was in the united states in this area. and in fact, there is a scene i described was a 36 olympics coming up in berlin and avery brand is the head of the american olympic committee is heading over to see companies are going to be discrimination against? can report that it's okay? and of course there's a lot of staged things to make him say that yeah, the jewish athletes will be treated okay and even though we won't allow any on the german team. he at one point turns over to one of his german officials, and since you know, my men's club in chicago, we don't allow in

jewish. and there was a lot of thing is that of course be one of the early correspondence who came right after what are one to germany said i'm the only american jewish correspondent there at the time and i've never countered in anti-semitism. he was overdoing it clearly. there was no way to avoid the anti-semitism, but he was seen to complacent. in the early days, it is bad in places, but it wasn't -- it really grew and it became something of a whole different scale. so i think the fact that the rest of the road, not just the united states share some of the prejudice and make it slow to react to might also remember the scenes in my books were german are warned by some of the more prescient americans, get out of here. this is not going to just pass. and they say no, it will pass.

german people are not going -- they're much too cool church will let someone like hitler. >> they also determined themselves as german and said as she wished. we have just a minute left. thank you. ..

>> my next book is going to be about native americans. one of the things that excite me about writing this is it is a way to take what we call american history and turned it around and turn it inside out and do it in a completely different way. it is a challenge because there are not as many written sources from native americans but that is all the more reason to get those stories down while you can. if you can't get the stories directly, capture the moral tradition when you can and try to capture it in such a way that perhaps strips away that veneer on which the usual high school and college textbooks are put on all our history. we get it prepackage whether it is civil war battles that are presented in lines and arrows on a map or world war ii stories that focus on the same characters over and over again.

history needs to constantly be made fresh. >> thank you, everyone for coming. [applause] >> i would encourage you -- [applause] -- i would encourage you to join us in signing area 7 if you would like to talk to the authors. get a book and have it signed. if you have any other questions we will head over there now and there will be guides to help you get there. thanks again for coming. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> it is a beautiful saturday after noon in southern california. gorgeous sunshine at the campus of u.s. c. you are watching booktv live coverage of the los angeles times festival of books. all day today and tomorrow we will have live coverage of nonfiction panel sessions and in between panel sessions, you will meet nonfiction authors and talk to them directly. first on our campus, hipolito acosta has a new book called "the shadow catcher". welcome and tell me the story of "the shadow catcher". >> thank you for having me here with you today. "the shadow catcher" deals with the 30 year career i had with the u.s. immigration service. it highlights the criminal investigation that i did in the united states regarding human smuggling illegal narcotics trafficking, a lot of stories

that deal with immigration legally sensitive issue in our country right now. >> one of the review suggests and your own coverage suggests you have all kinds of emotions, your own heritage and culture whether or not our focus is on the right thing as we try to enforce our borders. talk to me about this. >> before we deal with emotions on want to make sure our readers understand there are is a question of where my loyalty lies i would say federal enforcement officer. i put my responsibilities, i knew what i had to do. a logo in the back of a u-haul, when i was stuffed in the trunk of a car with a kid from el salvador, hard not to have the motions to understand what they're going through. hands after those individuals preying on individuals coming to our country that were seeking a

better way of life. the criminal organizations that took advantage to make money over this individual. there was a focus. i knew what i had to do. i saw from a different perspective that anybody might be smuggled with a group. i saw it from the perspective no federal agent had ever seen. i infiltrate organizations and did cases that had never been done before and never been done since. >> why did you take on such a risky assignment when it has not been done before and many people around you, whether people -- >> guest: it was a challenge to go after the organization. and seeking a better way of life even though we did so. my thought was i wanted to go for the individuals that were behind the scenes that were responsible for the criminal activity but we were very

successful. when i talk about my book, i had a great number of agents who worked with me and took it seriously when we were enforcing u.s. immigration law. we had a great agency i worked with. very dedicated agents that were willing to risk their lives to protect our country and took responsibility when we had individuals that were being preyed upon to go after the criminal organization. >> host: our viewers, we can take your calls at the booktv phone numbers on the bottom of your story to this form? >> one of the things, i had so

many stories i grew up in as part of my career and very dramatic stories. a lot of success in those stories and after i retired i started writing some of those stories and putting them to paper and it was a very interesting story to tell the american people. lisa pulitzer joined me. she was a great writer out of new york and a best-selling author with a number of books that she published her self. it was great being able to join up with a fantastic writer in telling our story. >> host: what did you learn about writing a book in the process? >> guest: i realize it is a tedious process and there can be a lot of emotions. when you read my book it tells a story how i grew up and tells a story of my family being very supportive when i went undercover for weeks at a time targeting some of the biggest organizations not just in one

particular area but throughout the united states in central america and south america. there are a lot of emotions that though not just with and forcing u.s. immigration law but having a normal life. i was blessed with having a tremendous family. my wife and children, my three sins are agents with law-enforcement. there is a lot of pride in what went on and getting together with lisa pulitzer helped me in finalizing this book. >> was it necessary to clear any of the content of the book with former agencies? >> all the information in the book is public record because all the cases i mentioned in the book prosecuted. we a rested the individuals that are named in the book. their true names by the way. it wasn't necessary to get any type of clearance for safety because it is all public information. >> host: let's see what

questions are viewers have. the first is from michigan. welcome to our conversation. >> caller: thank you very much. my question is i have heard a lot of stuff that legalizing or decriminalizing illegals drugs would help with illegal immigration problems from mexico by reducing a lot of violence and chaos and improving the situation overall. how much truth is there to that thinking? thank you very much. >> guest: thank you for the question. we are understanding two different issues. when you talk about legalizing drugs and whether that reduces violence, i don't know that it really does, the criminal aspect of smuggling humans into the united states. we're talking about two different issues. on the smuggling aspect my

perspective is many books are coming into the country seeking a better way of life. our immigration policy in my view over the years has not been consistent and is something we need to address as americans. when i was assigned to mexico city the estimates were there were two million people that were in the country as undocumented immigrants. in the past ten years the number has grown 12 to fifty million people illegally in the country. one of the reasons is we haven't addressed the issue to be addressed. drugs are a little bit of a different matter. the violence in mexico is something that mexico has to deal with. there's a lot of control by the government or lack of control because of years of corruption. the years of glorify narcotics trafficking and they are looking at the aftermath of what the results have been. i hope i have answered your question.

>> since you were a border enforcement for three decades you were in the job in 1986 when the great big immigration compromise was passed through congress. it is discussed a lot as immigration policy is talked about. you saw the effect of it. did the 1986 immigration reform act change things and if so in what ways? >> one thing about the immigration reform and control act of 1986 is it allows a couple village people that were in the country illegally to legalized. i think there was our failure from our political leaders to follow up on that because the fog was if we increase border resources by increasing the border patrol which we needed to do because back then we had 1800 agents along the border and we have 20,000 border patrol agents protecting our country, that was needed but that was more than that was needed. sins than, as we tighten up our

border security individuals come into the country knew that once they made it past the border they could continue where our interior enforcement has been minimal. so once they make it past the border they were safe where there was chicago or illinois. that is one of the failures of our immigration enforcement. >> caller: i'm wondering what immigration means. >> host: her question is what is immigration mean? >> guest: our country has been the recipient of many immigrants throughout the world. often in the united states we think of legal or illegal immigration as just being a mexican issue. to the contrary we have immigrants from all over the

world. they have contributed greatly to our country. but i think it is important to address that we have legal immigration and illegal immigration. we need to make sure we enforce immigration law, address these, that is a short version of what immigration is. seeking a better way of life, become a legal permanent resident and ultimately becoming american citizens. >> we're coming live from the campus of u.s. c. they are expecting 150,000 people over the next several days. 500 authors and our guests feel nonfiction, fiction legal

children's books, and everything we're publishing on this campus and lots of people from southern economy -- southern california taking a bad miss people afternoon. i you a fan of the border since. >> guest: we don't need a border fence from san diego to texas. border barriers, significantly reduced illegal immigration and people attending entry and certainly reducing crime in areas like el paso, texas where it was common for individuals from mexico to commit a crime and be able to return. i think we need it to be effective >> now that you are retired and can speak more freely deified

policymakers thick of the phone and ask your advice and say what should we be doing about this? or do you not get those calls? >> political leaders have their own perspective of what they want and unfortunately they need to listen more to the people who have worked on the field. a number of people spent 30 years out of the field to give good perspective. >> south carolina is next. >> caller: thank you. i can't believe i'm talking to c-span. congratulations to this guy who has put his life in precarious places to help. the greatest problem with immigration in this country is inconsistency in the immigration policies. i lived in southern california for 20 years and south carolina back home.

one of my neighbors is a hispanic family who refurbished a house completely. i know what their immigration status is. the inconsistency. these politicians are scared silly of this whole immigration thing. it should be very consistent. it should be very -- not easy, but simple for people to be able to enter this country. like the guy said. the contributions that have been made especially now in this country are unfathomable. >> host: before you hang up. when you say inconsistent that is the same word mr. acosta use. what is an example of inconsistency from your life experience? >> caller: my life experience. a very good friend of mine, a

young 30-year-old lady had an automobile accident where an undocumented fellow ran into her car. he had nothing but an insurance card. no driver's license. just an insurance card. the highway patrolman in south carolina send him on his way. did not even ticket him. he was scared to death of what the law might say. the situation turned out okay but i am just saying that this patrolman was terrified. i called the highway patrol offices to find out what was going on and he said we follow the rules. i don't know what that means. >> host: thanks for your call. >> guest: that is a tremendous point. consistency and enforcement of immigration law is one thing we need. i will share with you that our

border security and the security of our country should be a non negotiable item and we need to dedicate resources to do that. we take that issue by tightening security along the border and allowing employers to hire illegal aliens in the united states because that is the magnet that draws people into the united states. over the years like i just mentioned earlier in the program when we are talking about going from two million to fifteen million people in the ten year period there's something wrong and that policy is not working. we need to be strong at the border and in the interior of the united states and enforcement of immigration law and make sure that employers have a need for a temporary work force that the number of people allowed to come and work for a short period of time is there. that hasn't been there and i couldn't agree with you more that we have been very inconsistent on the immigration issue. >> how did you decide on the

name "the shadow catcher"? >> one of the things about when we talk about the population of the united states that are undocumented we talk about people being in the shadows. that is where "the shadow catcher" comes from. >> host: do you have more stories to tell? >> guest: we are in the final stages of a second book that we hope to have on the market next year. i worked undercover. thank you for bringing that point up. i mentioned earlier in the program that we talk about illegal immigration. we tend to see it as just mexican illegal immigration. in my next undercover assignment where i spent months with a major organization that was operated out of ecuador we were smuggling. i was in an undercover capacity bringing in chinese leaders the pakistani is, indians, people from all nationalities. we ended up in a cave that janet reno called the greatest case in

history and look forward to releasing next year and hope i get a chance to be with you again. >> host: with that ladder story brings up all the issues of national security. it is not just undocumented people coming into the country and might be taking jobs but we hear from washington policymakers about people who would do this country and its citizens harm coming across the border. our real is that process? >> guest: you heard me mention that our security is non negotiable anywhere. that is another area we have failed tremendously because when we talk about coming across the border we talk about people coming in to look for better way of life. i didn't come -- we have two million undocumented immigrants in the united states who came with visas issued by a broad. because of our lack of interior enforcement there is no follow-up on this particular population. is not just those people coming the cross the border that we

worry about. and 19 hijackers that came into the united states did not come across the mexican border. taking with visas issued by the u.s. state department. >> host: next call from galveston, texas. you are on the air. galveston? let's take a call from california. go-ahead. >> caller: thank you. very much. and thanks to mr. acosta for all he has done. i would like to know the hole between policy and what he has experienced needs to be taken apart between what politicians are doing and what he is experiencing on the ground. i wonder if he has any ideas if his second book is going to try to involve that for his viewpoint on policy that has

gone wrong here. >> guest: the second book we are working on actually deals with a criminal organization i infiltrated that was based out of ecuador and partially based in the bahamas as well. our second book is going to deal with that criminal organization but i do hope in the future i will get to that issue about policies we have in place. we have a lot of retired folks that have the experience. not only those that are retired. individuals within the service have spent years working on this issue and have a lot to contribute. i hope as a nation we address this issue in the near future. >> host: how good is the cooperation between the united states and mexico over border issues? >> host: >> guest: one are the director in mexico city and fulfilled a diplomatic role we had a tremendous, very good working

relationship on this particular issue. if you look at the history when i was in mexico city we ran an operation called operation crossroads international where i was able to get 12 countries to collaborate on one 20 day operation where we interdicted 7,091 emigrants that were destined for the united states to enter our country. because of that cooperation none of them ever made it to our borders. i call it an extension of the security of our borders. when i left mexico city those operations were not continued. the will to cooperate is there. we might have differences but we need to make the effort. takes responsibility because they are the countries of illegal immigration and they bear responsibility to their own citizens and they have to work with us to stop the flow of illegal migration which the travel for those migrants is dangerous fall away from the time they leave their doors until they get to the united

states. we have a tendency to believe the danger coming at the u.s. border and that is the farthest thing from the truth. >> host: portland of the little organ is the next caller. >> caller: i would like to thank the guest for his honesty. in portland statistically speaking we have 6% of hispanics are illegal. we have a large russian illegal immigrant population. they are encouraged by our politicians and towns and cities to get all kinds of free stuff. they give them welfare. they give them food stamps. they give them free housing. all kinds of things. all of a sudden he was hit by an illegal on his motorcycle and was in the hospital for a month. nothing happened to this person. wasn't reported. the police let him leave the scene and never heard from him again. it is so frustrating because i

am not against illegal immigration. i am tired of the illegal immigration. even according to our oregon education association we spend $500 million educating the children of illegals in oregon. it is costing us so much money and our politicians refuse to address the problem. it is -- really makes you angry. >> host: thank you. >> guest: thank you for your question. you have a different point and i would like to break them down a little bit. you are talking about portland, oregon which is several hundred thousand miles away from the border. one of the things i mentioned earlier was we are strong on the border but once the immigrants make it into the united states there's hardly any enforcement. that is a tremendous concern. the second thing, you were concerned about the benefit or expenditures