we went there for the announcement. it was either continental tire or austin candy. either way, it was a great economic development. lots of jobs. one of the stories that they talked about was we have all these jobs and did you see the governor eschews? i was shocked by the number of people that e-mailed me and asked -- why don't you were in his? you don't look finished. you should wear earrings. it is because i'm allergic to metal. i can't do that. i will tell you, again, it goes back to there are not enough women in the office. you have hillary clinton. they talk about her hair and clothes. sarah palin went through that. they talked about her glasses and suits. i go through that. but you just have to laugh it off. we have to work a little bit harder and make sure that we focus on results. it is not what they say, it is what we do.

..

and so just in the number one vacation spot. of what the people to take that in. i was thinking in my office and went to the desk, i want you to try something. as of the next time you answer the phone say, it's a great day in south carolina. hazmat l.p. she did, and a person's answer was, it is a great day in south carolina i said, that said. so what are required was all of my cabinet agencies set to start answering the phone. two sides to that. the media wanted to pick up on one side. one was, wanted employees to feel proud of where their work. the one them to be proud of the fact of we're in a great state in good standing. we have our challenges, but every day is getting better.

the second part was more important, how an appeal. government is it the customer service business. when everyone in state government to answer the phone and understand their work for the person on the other side, their job was to make sure they solve the problem, set them to with a minute ago and make sure they're taking care of by the time they got off the phone. there were two sites. all tell you that while the media and a couple of was letters thought that it was terrible, everybody in my cabinet has appreciated it. now i don't go anywhere in south carolina or out where they don't say it's a great day in south carolina. the problem of juvenile justice, give you the example which is you talked about corrections, and that's very true. the department of juvenile justice or corrections is as if a juvenile, the director started implementing it. the first day after it was implemented she drove up to the guard gate and the officer those of wingate said to morning, it's

a great day in south carolina. to a bit. now all the guards say it's a great day in south carolina. the media called the substance abuse director and said you have people with substance abuse. what do you think? has said is the best thing that happened because of people to know for going to be right. and so that is the thing. other victims assistance that we waived, of course. but those type things. and most cabinets that will commit, appreciated, and it is given everyone this new happy life. we celebrate and brag about our state is. >> i want to take the party of of the s in the last question to get your assessment of 2012. we're close to being in that general election. real scene of the last couple of days really the attacks that

president obama is live in take his stunning comments about the supreme court's roe from the rose garden and comments that he can't think richard is a constitutional scholar. also going after both cover romney and chairman ryan in his remarks of the newspaper association. talk about how we as republicans can effectively counter what we now know is going to be the obama message. >> very important going into november. when need to focus on one thing, his record. he will continue to distract. we need to continue to stay focused. it would get the economy. look at the debt. look at the loss of the credit rating, the gas pumps, the fact that we have not balance the budget. stay on message. this is a man who came into office as a candid talking about

hope and change. nothing he tried to do has worked, and he's going to scare the american public into thinking they better reelect him words going to get worse. to have him be such a bully and scolded republicans and said i can't believe you're trying to cut and reform these entitlements and try and relate prioritize spending, that's exactly what with one. he's going back to a new deal looking for government to grow and save everybody from themselves. and telling you, the rest of the american public is saying, that's not what we want. given that misses of more than it fixes, and we realize that there is a tremendous opportunity after seeing him fall apart a little bit call bullying the supreme court that he has reached a new level of trying to figure out where it will go because he knows he can go on his record. he's desperately trying to make sure in this summer. what he's looking like is a bully, is panicking over record

can't defend and he has been able to show, and he knows it. i hope that if you will be on the ticket you will at least the out all across the country campaigning very vocally as we head toward november. >> that is a given. >> i want to, again, recommend everyone this terrific book and wonderful story. >> think you so much. appreciate it. [applause] >> next on book tv in new wedding presents the history of economic, the nets states and specifically recounts the confidence game that last -- left texas rancher penniless in 1919. [applause]

>> hello. they accuse some much for coming. first, let's talk about the big con before i died in to read from the book. you need to know a little bit about what happened to the main character bachmann j. frank nor fleet before we get to the sectional read. december 1919. j. frank norfleet is a texas rancher, 54 years old at the time of his life. he has made a bunch of money for himself. fairly prosperous. he has made that money by adhering to its principles which include doing business with a handshake with other honest and upright people. he comes to dallas for orlando from the texas panhandle worries from. very quickly he is inspired by a team of five men headed by a ringleader, just a fury. they have done their research

and understand who he is and exactly how taken. and over a series of almost two weeks they very gradually and -- insnare and in what we now know as a big con, in particular structure of swindling that is a little bit too long to describe here, but if you've seen this thing you know what i'm talking about, an entire play with sets and actors and costumes and extras. basically boiled down to a joseph fury convincing norfleet that he was placing money on the stock exchange using insider tips so he could not possibly go wrong. it would be worth his while to put quite a bit of his own money behind this absolutely sure thing. the stock market was, in fact, raid, just completely against him in the whole thing was a cent. this happens in the first chapter. that ends with him realizing he has been taken for a repeat is

worth, plus more. they actually play the, him twice because he was so invested in the story they're telling him that he went home and got more money and play the caught again after he had been swindled. he was 54 -- of zurich, $45,000 poorer at the end of these two weeks. he was absolutely stone broke. so at the end of the cannes, the last act in the play calls for the mark to go home silent and never say what happened both because his reputation could survive that but also because the market thinks he has been participating in something shady or underhanded and if he tries to prosecute he will be open to prosecution itself. so in this way they buy and silence. but.

♪ was no ordinary mark and made the extraordinary decision to put his entire life on hold, turner's ranch over to his wife and spend the next what turned out to be four years tracking down the five men and swindled them. no credentials or qualifications. he was not in any way a detective, knew nothing about where to find these guys. he was so outraged from his principles being violated it made in do that. o read from the fourth chapter which is where his unique part of the story picks up, the park where he deviates from the script and decides to make this decision. chapter four, humbug. when norfleet asked and software and a blessed country to begin looking for five men skilled in the art of subterfuge the image of a little red notebook floated up before his mind's eye. he had not consciously noted

before, but now that he thought about it he remembered it, furious address book. he turned it around, put it back down on the imagined hotel bed where he first saw it and then on and bowles picked it back up and up did. the mental trick worked. he saw long list of names written in different hands and one in particular stockout, and mr. s in kathy from corpus christi. hired one of his relatives on perhaps 30 years earlier. he said unrealized it had potential significance. now landowner likened self and his name was surely in the little red book because he was on the sucker list. a flood had recently divested in corpus christi and he could easily imagine being persuaded to liquidate his already settled real-estate. his first trip was to court was

christie to see if his old friend had encountered the gain of five, but he was told that he was away in california on a prospect contract. it was eliza, his wife, who gave him his next lead. as they sat together talking of the case while norfleet claimed his rifle she mused that when one of the five swindlers visited the ranch to survey it for the mythical greek immigration land company the unspoken learned lee and a musically of his travels all round the country, everywhere except the state of california all mention of which was conspicuously absent. could it be because that is where the gang has out? you fitted. that is the reason they never said a word about the golden state. eurasia's any dialogue in this book is not invented these are

his authentic words. his mind instantly made all the connections. it all comes to me now. they made to get away the minute they got my money. they gathered up kathy it corpus christi in the whole of it happens refers to an account. it felt so right that he wasted no time. this very thinnest of lead shot him across the plains and deserts to san bernardino why? well because he had to get off the train somewhere and he decided to work the state from the bottom-up. he later offered no explanation for charging fourth as of this one sufficed. it was dusk when he arrived and the decorations strung around town reminded him that it was christmas eve. the holiday had utterly flat his mind. as you want to run the neighborhood imagining the families inside and wondering

what his own family was doing it the rant committee experienced the first and really only moment of doubt in his quest. he launched to get back on the train, but as he walked the site before his eyes began to melt with the pops, flipping through his mind. he caught himself imagining fury and spencer squeezing down chimneys scooping up presence and clean. he had become inescapably is get -- of assessed. on christmas morning lonely and sheepish he went to the sheriff's office. spilled his entire story sparing no details and describing his enemies precisely as he knew how . she let him get to the end of the speech before replying, the sheriff's office as a make a general practice of giving every stranger in town a christmas present, but i may have one for you.

the shared pack them over to the cells and pointed. there in adjoining cages sat word and herbert, the fraudulent secretaries of the dallas and fort worth stock exchange's. his stomach turned, his entire body broke out in the saw the tail run up and down his spine. despite his revulsion his first absurd impulse was to wish his enemies and merry christmas. for most of the time he unknown they had been his esteemed colleagues, crisp, well-dressed executives who had treated him with deference and respect. he marveled at how orderly their assets had changed and how little they resembled their former selves. so you found this, did you, you damned old fox. the one-hour flight it picked as the killer was craven. for god's sake, don't identify yes. have pity. for god's sake, don't identify us.

he turned and fall the share of packed his office with the word this is the route of your shot he drove the share for the details of their arrest. he was told an extraordinary and unbelievable story, a texan was in december 1904 business and had fallen in with a group of phony stock brokers, just about to close a deal with them when he read in the newspaper of norfleet swindle. he knew it once he was in the hands of the same man-the buyer. he was accosting the first police officer resaw on the street. alas, his crew spotted in talking to the officer. they fled the hotel. they disappeared it via the fire escape but the sheriff managed to intercept to a few minutes later at the transition he took the chance of detaining them long enough to wire share of sterling park in fort worth

and received an is to reply to hold them under the warrant that our fleet and farm after his one leg. they found precisely the same credentials and documents used on norfleet, all the fury going by the name of tac now about the changes aliens. the rapid capture did not dampen his fervor for the others. the four were authorities ready paperwork to extradite them to texas, no. we continued scouring california for leeds on fury, spencer, and hamlin. he searched telephone and telegraph records but found no trace. he busy police stations in the surrounding cities and towns and in los angeles he had the minors for. are looking to the roads calories of photographs he identified a picture of carey and learned his real name. while he was in the big city he thought he would try his hand at the skies. he left a suitcase at the sheriff's office and sought out a suitably and ventures

beautician to resources month at -- russell with his mustache. a clean shaven businessman walked into the sheriff's office and asked for a suitcase. how'd you get that way? these things belong to a west texas cowman. his escapades in california oarsmen brought to a close to appear at a grand jury hearing. on the two men fumed in a california jail cells norfleet caught the next train east. he sat and thought about his case, his mind restlessly circulating the same meager facts. in an elderly man sitting across from him fall that this newspaper, lean over and introduced himself as harry karst. i have been reading about the capture of these fellows. it looks like they're in for now. in high spirits norfleet cried there would be if he had anything to do with it, and out came the entire story

by the time they finished he decided to stop to see how the trial turned out. in the meantime hillingdon the corner of the car for a short nap. as norfleet watched the aldermen said to back and the light from the window play on his features his mind suddenly froze he knew that face. to be sure he had never met him before, but the characteristics of his face were undeniably familiar. in the added. perry karst was exactly what e.j. ward would look like in 30 years, his newest friend was the father of one of his mortal enemies sent to tell them and realize affirmation from. norfleet cursed his own egotism but never considered that they just might be as tedious and often as he. he wrote, reached for a suitcase and drug and a live bird luncheon of many tempting morsel he offered them but as of

compensating for his previous susceptibility norfleet turned and everything. the sandwiches, stuffed olives, green felt cakes, fruit from his paranoia was strengthened when guards refused to eat his own food clearing an upset stomach and choosing for himself only too hard boiled eggs. it will be difficult to poison to on broken shells. this small i told him all he needed to know about mr. perry gars. he resolved to doubles caution. then in practically the very next instant the door fleet brokers on resolution. is naturally could not be held back and he found himself in a delightful conversation with the woman from georgia where he learned that she had been a detective. unstinting had granted her is confidence telling her as terrell of walling giving a precise descriptions of the three men still large. she promised to keep an eye out

and to wire and with the millions. nor fleet stepped off the train forward satisfy the press. north lee testified against morgan gerber, and as he left his arm was seized a nest, what to do, today bill those men? affected nonchalance, he had done as part and the rest was up to the jury. he began to walk away. his voice grab him again. the hotels are booked up. would he like to join them? once again, he declined. eventually cars to give up and took leave. norfleet shed his indifference trailing burst into poor districts and up to the door of a disheveled house. when safely inside norfleet test back to the courthouse,

buttonholed a newspaper reporter and cajole them into returning to the boarding house open to confront cars with the knowledge of his true identity and publish it as a scoop. on the way back katie dunn lost. it took that as the strongest possible evidence that has a position of the relationship was correct. his testimony that afternoon secured their extradition from some current in of a fourth. the sheriff personally escorted the charges back to texas and they spend the rest of the winter in the jail. while they made themselves home there was another conversation that dissuaded his swelling sense of triumph just a little bit. at the jail when the pair of swindlers was visited by g. c. cornwall, u.s. secret service agent who helped identify them as accomplices in the swindling of the washington d.c. man, a

furniture dealer. carl told norfleet that word in gerber were part of the infamous during game . the photos of all the leaders are right here in this town. i send them to the city detective a long time ago norfleet was not flat by this news. how much easier would have been had he possessed photographs to show to shares, hotel managers, and retired detective's . you stay here and all bring you enough pictures to make a big family album. but when he returned from the sheriff's office he shook his head in frustration. the office was clemens never to have received the photographs. norfleet that is first inkling of the swindling performed on the other side of the shares counter. the photographs may have been a false lead, but they give him something in valuable, renewed

conviction that only he was responsible for bringing about justice. his discipline and was soon offset by miraculously. the the two would give him of information. he found himself with a wide open country to scour. then he received a letter forwarded them at his hotel. a man boarded a train in houston who matched the description of fury down to the smallest poor. the woman moved close and even dropped on his conversation with a colleague. he started by telling them and that business in dallas and fort worth was as easy as turning a picture show. clearly that could mean one thing. he was on his way to miami to play the game. then came the kicker is earmarked in the casual aside, think of stop off a few days in jacksonville. so many of the boys are down there and i like to keep up with the gang. and do reveille it was him.

the wide-open country had telescoped down to a singles the . ascendency acquired a small arsenal of guns, a suitcase full of disguises or arrest warrants for his remaining the cowpuncher hot on the next eastbound train. let's take stock. if he jabbed his finger and a map of california and happen to find two of them. they happen to have swept a fellow texan and to a con who just happen to have read the newspaper account by norfleet in order to it it wasn't kick. then norfleet just happened to recognize a stranger on a train as the father of one of the swindlers in time to avoid further in in dreams of. finally describing the related to another stranger and she just happened to recognize that man had way across the country.

all this in just 20 pages of his autobiography. either the world was several orders of magnitude smaller in the 1920's or something other than strict multitude guides his account. the first question his story raises, could he be economist? his autobiography piles on in probabilities without ever a knowledge in that they are improbabilities. it comes to seem like winking. the lady detected whom he meets on the train on his way toward and covers hearing is named mrs. ward as far as i know this mrs. ward was in no way related to either ej or is probable can it was merely a coincidence. later in hot pursuit he approaches a police officer on a street corner in san augustine florida who turned out to be named work . nor fleet nearly rights, i never

get rid of the family. on the one hand perhaps he should be commended for speaking to the truth even when he risks are in credulity with particular is that none of the -- no novelist could get away with. perhaps these incredible details and the sides should signal something to his readers the narrative sounds quite different from his early life history. instead of self righteousness and more rectitude he projects a hokey him and extreme tolerance for moral ambiguity. he finds himself almost broke detected jot down to the racetrack a c-span2 and find the texas wars and that his last $90. it will be a poor texas course it could not win a little money for a texas common. my little baby paid out at 61. this from the same man who banned gambling from his ranch and preached to human.

he justifies his vigilante quest as an attempt to restore his values that had been so summarily violated by the urban tricksters. when he leaves his ranch and embarks on a quest his values began to drift away from their origin, and he starts to resemble his enemies more and he realizes. take a man with a propensity for spending yarn by the campfire and immerse it in a deceptive art of the swindler. suddenly he almost to be impersonating himself and daring as to believe him. this promise of second and far more beguiling question. if he is calling us, do we mind? arguably the most defining and perplexing characteristic of an american sense of fun is the perennial willingness to make oneself in to the mark of a showman, artist, or director.

it is a sensation that is composed of equal parts admiration for the cleverness of the play and gratification at any resolution and has a long pedigree in american culture. the rest of the book goes on to tell about the story of norfleet and how it really is true. i wanted to give you a flavor of why it's interesting to polk added a little bit. i wanted to end of the paragraph in the end to you can see where that brings us in the end, this idea of american fun. the life of norfleet is one of tramping over his susceptibility by embracing it. perhaps one of the reasons why he captivated so many listeners and readers with his tell is that he gave expression to an

aspect of his intensity that you would otherwise be able to read that they shared. .. never expressed that hard purpose of skepticism that the experts of the state tried to instill the american populace. instead he let out his intermark , that fragile bubble of hope and optimism perry will let him into the trap of fury but also what led him to believe he had a chance of succeeding , two stories that would never have happened without large measure of the gullibility. certainly this credulity is as essential to american apology is a self-made man, but the ventures of norfleet go further to suggest that the market inside is the first requirement for narrative itself. what he did cultivates the characteristic until it became knowing self aware of, perennially game for wide awake deception. he came to represent the personality type that best fits american and guarantee, the sophisticated soaker. thank you.

[applause] >> i would love to hear questions, stories of your own, any kind of discussion we can have. [inaudible question] >> i was curious, and please forgive me if i ask a question you answered earlier. curious first of all how you initially got interested in the subject. when you discovered the subject was a something that was kind of endemic in the american psychology or was that something that kind of came to you as you were studying? >> i first discovered norfleet when i was researching my dissertation, which is much more boring. i was writing the chapter on autobiographies by con artists switch a very interesting. there were not any before the

beginning of the 20th-century, and then there were a whole bunch. these were fascinating because, how do you convince your readers you're telling the truth in a memoir when your profession is that of a liar? all kinds of rhetorical strategy as they engage in command that struck me as very american and not particularly just to this town of amara has also there was clearly a fascination with their stories in this time and it is exactly the time that the big, can about. as i was researching the stories are really wanted to read a book that would kind of tommy the history of con games and what was popular wind, what was in fashion and matched up with the economic opportunity of the time because all these are parasitic on mainstream real-life legitimate investment potential first. there was no such book, so there was this : my boat.

the other thing was discovered norfleet. i thought that his was similar to the memoirs i was researching it wasn't true. none of those, and memoirs are true and i thought his is obviously not because his way to good to be true. obviously a false memoir of someone lying about being in the deceptive art seemed really interesting and useful. i can do a lot with this. then i found out it was true. that seemed like a good place to start, to write the book that tried to. nuys con games and talk about the ways that they have been pretty crucial to economic development in our country. it's a good story, but also the kind of story from the underground and so a way to get an underground history as well.

i know people in this room have been conned. [laughter] statistically. it's likely. if you would like to tell the story -- [laughter] >> what do you think a modern-day, would look like? twentieth century gone. what of that kind of things that you would see in today's society that kind of mirror? >> well, we all know now about ponzi schemes thanks to bernie madoff. so that is an instance of a very old, the beginning of the 20th-century. it has been continued in nearly unchanged form to the present day. in fact, even in just the past two years which is well after madoff may headlines, even in the

past two years the sec has continued to prosecute over 200 ponzi schemes, which i find really incredible. it gives the white to the idea that once you know helicon as work you are not susceptible to a new more you actually cannot necessarily be inoculated. and so some cons don't die and are not particular to a particular moment in history. so ponzi is the best interests to cut instance of that. there was an article about an honest man who ran up on his skin. it's true. [laughter] and he did not intend to defraud investors, but he did. so that is one answer to your question. another would be, there are plenty particular to our time and happen on the internet. so the most famous one that we all know about because we have gotten the mills is the nigerian 419 scheme . that is the name of the connecticut.

that is where there is some deposed nigerian prince, high up executive. a lot of them come out of the middle east now as well. they have some sort of treasure that is locked up in some bureaucratic way, but you can help them on lockett in some complicated way that will generally involve you traveling throughout foreign countries. but if you invest in that cause you will get a share of that. it's hard to believe how it works. it has a similar structure to the big on. no one can never be as one of them to fund its two of the is the magical money, too obviously something for nothing. but what the people to be swindled by this idea that if you spend a little bit of money often times and french or altruism

cost of a little bit of money and get a lot back. it's a sort of easy entry that plays on greed and a lot of times other things like. i think we all have those e-mails in our spam fuller's right now. they must work with it would not keep sending them. >> when i started reading it was familiar, but i could not think of an example, someone who was conned and decided to take revenge. are there other stories that you found? >> it is a truism in these autobiographies and i have read. any time a swindler is bragging about his exploits he will say this sucker never squeals because the congress said tediously structured that the mark is ashamed were fearful of being prosecuted.

i found lots of instances of suckers squealing. they go to the nearest district attorney or police station and tell the story. what happens is the story is there because those people are bought off. there are a few instances of swindlers -- sorry, march 2 did what norfleet did, it just took it into their own hands to go after these guys. it is incredible the think of you actually just going off on this madcap quest. so improbable that you would be successful. they're not famous people, but there are newspaper accounts. i shared the manuscript with a group of graduate students at cornell. one woman's grandmother had pulled a norfleet. he had actually -- he was from canada, swindled in florida which is where rwanda's wimbledon the wintertime. he had come down there for his

son, lost his savings, and when he died later that is with a talked about. that was the extraordinary story of his life. it is not common, but it is not as uncommon as the con man would have to believe. >> was there anything you left out? at some point you have to say okay, this is the story and i can include everything that i want? >> you mean about norfleet? >> just in general. >> well, there's a lot that i did write the cut cut because i got very interested in the story . his own personal history. i went deep into texas panhandle history. i just found that interesting. later, the second half of the book, norfleet goes to denver, this completely fixed uptown with the swindlers basically

control everything . overlapping teams of swindlers swindling marks all at the same time. it's incredible. i went deep into that history as well because how did that town become this absolutely safe place for swindling? there is, you know, a very specific answer that has to do whatever history. in terms of the story of norfleet, absolutely his autobiography is packed with various story lines. i just had to pare that down because my book would be as long as his book plus three more at least. he, you know -- i don't think i will spoil anything by saying he does eventually get his swindlers, but there are many different twists and turns and he narrates every single one. he had no editor, so i had to be there are party did know, at least when he wrote the autobiography. when he goes after joe ferri he

finally gets them, but what happens after he goes to jail is just fantastic and that's not in his autobiography. so adding something send thomas to say that terry does not want to be locked up. clever enough to figure out a partial solution. i edited out one instance of his autobiography, this woman named mrs. st., this small trim need the will. she turns up everywhere he goes and turns out to be incredibly deadly and devious and now what she seems. nothing ever happens with that. i took her out because i couldn't figure out a way. if you like the story the autobiography is there to read into the page turner very healthy and nylon because he loves that. the stories are great. long winded yes?

[inaudible question] >> how you research something like this? news the boat articles? >> well, a lot pops up. so that's the perfect question, how you researched this. on the one hand you have to research it because the autobiography is so impossible, so you have the fact ticket or do due diligence. he was this ordinary guy. uneducated, now well known person he very quickly into the public record and its many newspapers. they did -- his story was incredibly interesting to people in the time. so newspapers, not just in texas but all across the country very quickly begin following his exploits. he became known for what he is doing. you know, his name became shorthand for going after people that have -- criminals, not even

necessarily con men, but going after criminal. so then, you know, newspapers will, you know -- he can gain newspapers themselves. he is not actually conduct anyone, but he is exaggerating the story. howdy penetrate that level of fall so? there are court documents that detail what happened to each of them and that he caught. there are court transcripts. interestingly the main court case that i would have liked to have used when he does make it to denver and tries to bring down the denver kaingang, and this is a whole other story that i didn't get into. this was 30 plus -- much more than that, a team of swindlers that have this stranglehold on the city of denver and of course you will be the one to bring them to justice. there was a trial.

it is a completely missing from the denver court house record. if you get a microphone the court numerically the court case for before and after are there. somebody just photographed in the microphone a note saying these records missing. there is a story that i don't know. you have to wonder who would have been hurt by that in public . lots of local persons. detritus hard as i could to track down defendants of people, not because they would remember anything, but because they would have letters and scrapbooks. an unpublished autobiography, a texas district attorney who accompanied norfleet on all of his escapades. he did say, well, norfleet exaggerated a little bit, but he must be verified the actual events. in the end what is amazing about the story is how much we can verify, how much did not just

disappear into this ordinary life, but how much made it into the public record and how much he was telling the truth but slanting it so that he was pretty much always the hero. [laughter] >> yes. >> in your research other with norfleet or others, did you come across the iconic dedicated smart, tough lawman kind of thing ? so replayed in our literature but seemingly less so in reality. did you occasionally come across those people or even ever? six. >> you mean like a share for police officer yes, there were a few. sheriff shade that i mentioned was one of the honest ones. there were a few that helped the norfleet now. by and large there was so much corruption. he countered so many people who

were bought off, double dealings. that became his sideline, expose that and bring that to light. he had a little hobby along the way as his main quest which was to bring down the crooked police officers. so he was the lawman, the mythic figure that you are describing. he was very much styling himself after a kind of dying novel, american mythic hero. he is part cowboy, part detective, familiar with the underworld, but not tainted by it. what are some other genres? so i think he was taking that on that might have been why other people were so interested in his story. well, here is for real, someone who managed to not be ensnared in the corruption that everyone can see around and.

there were some honest police officers, but none of them took on the quest like norfleet did, so none of them would have been able to really break apart the structures that were so deeply embedded in these fixed uptown's. it took someone completely outside of all of those and completely oblivious to, you know, the norms to kind of come in and blow it all apart and bring publicity to it. >> did norfleet survive? >> he started to make a silent film starring himself produced by himself financed largely by himself right before the great depression. so it never was finished. all we know is that one of the actresses sued him for something curious because i don't know what groschen taken.

and the film does not survive. there are a few stills, and that's it. i've looked. i don't know what happened to it. that's the era of silent films. the gun. he's got the eyeliner on. so it would have been good. [laughter] he saw the potential of his own story. this blonde on the big screen, but alas another mall in american history. >> if there were made into a movie, who would play norfleet? >> i just see paul newman in that role. he is not -- very short, 54. interesting to think about him. i think a paul newman. the ride the allies. then i think of paul newman in the sting.

i don't know. with play that game. who would play in? it can't be someone, not like it brad pitt hero. i don't know. would james franklin do a good job? someone with little. >> and john stuart. >> john stuart. [laughter] of give him mccall. all tell him that we talked. we've all agreed. sphere. >> where their talks about the movie? >> no. xbox it competes with everything else. the feedback that we have gotten is that hollywood wants a real bloody shootout in the end. they want more free to come into some kind of fight with the comment which she doesn't. that is the whole point. he could have.

his cowboys as a justice would have entitled them to kill these guys surf. he made the choice early on to catch them by gile. that means you won't have a bloody shootout. saw. [inaudible question] >> at the nassau that. >> a great show. one thing they try, a moral distinction between people there really are greedy for unethical and someone that might get pot and. have you seen the real life distinction? >> you mean con men never want swindle the retiree on the pension, the one who is really greedy? that is another truism that appears everywhere in every autobiography in every sociological interview, but they

only swindle people who have it coming and that there's windmill's work by greed and only a greedy person would respond. i don't buy it. i think it would swindall anyone they could. because they didn't just appeal to greek. the appeal the niacin motions, including intelligence and kindness. so i think that's a very self justifying. they consider themselves the aristocrats of the criminal world because they don't use violence and apparently there choosy about it is winnable. of the gaster. >> will your next would be about? >> thank you for asking. i don't know yet. i'm researching a bunch of ideas and have not narrow them down. i'm interested in american

history and capitalism. it would be something in there. not swindling, nice to spend time with good people. we will see. taking up. thank you very much for coming. i will be signing books and would love to talk with you more individually. thank you very much. [applause] [applause] >> this event was hosted by the elliott bay book company in seattle. for more information visit elliott bay book telecom. >> in his new book rodney king recounts his life following the video recording of his beating by los angeles police on march 3rd, 1991. mr. king talks about his own legal problems and alcohol addiction since then as well as the acquittal of four of the

police officers in the case which led to rioting in los angeles. on tuesday rodney king speech at the center for research on black culture in harlem, new york city. but tv will bring you this event live online at 630 eastern. get to booktv.org and put the watch button on the the event in feature programs. you can also check cartels is a schedule that booktv.org for airtimes of this event. >> bear not joining book tv on c-span2, dr. judith reisman. she is most recently the author of, "sexual sabotage: how one med scientist unleashed a plague of corruption and contagion on america" who was this mad scientist you're referring to? >> a lot of people know who he is by now. i'm happy to say or unhappy, i don't know which. that would be dr. alfred c. kinsey, the founder of the kinsey institute, which is still

alive. he's not alive. but it's still going on in bloomington, indiana at the indiana university. gender reproduction. the man who was involved in the sexual torture of hundreds of children in his own work. i keep trying to say that is not a reliable scientist, but it has been a little difficult to get across. >> host: very quickly, remind us about the kinsey report and where he came from and how he developed that whole -- >> guest: sure. world war two was over, you know, officially in 45. our guys were returning from overseas. they were traumatized. the nation was traumatized. a couple of years later, 1948, his book comes out called sexual behavior in the human male. the propaganda around it, i officially call that propaganda, marketing propaganda, this man, this great conservative

scientist was going to tell the american public the truth about all of us, will be reviewing sexually, what our grandparents for doing sexually, parents were doing sexually. he was going to reveal the real shock and list -- lift the curtain of will we were hiding and what that was was that do were really a bunch of sexual adventures and that mommy and daddy were involved in various kinds of adultery and everyone was doing all these bizarre things. the public did not necessarily believe it, but a lot of the professors did. it was picked up. universities all over the country. it filtered down to every place. >> host: who founded his steady? >> guest: the rockefeller foundation not only from this study, but when he looked like he was getting in big trouble with congress they shifted the money from can see directly into what they call the american law institute model penal code, which is why i'm here.

the law school, because our laws were gutted in changed. >> host: why you call and a conservative scientists? >> guest: they define them as conservative. americans would never have accepted a man who was as -- well, by homosexual, a big argument which is which. certainly bizarre person. it is having sex with a student. making prior feet in his attic in the university he was engaged in so many bizarre things, including things that actually brought about orchitis, which was massive damage to his lower left and -- in other regions because he was so abuse at himself. this is not a normal guy. he certainly was the major, major proponent of the idea that children are sexual from birth and can be on harmed by sex with adults.

>> host: given that this happened in 1948, are there lasting a facts to the kinsey studies? >> guest: huge. i copied off his charts and graphs. his two month old baby. this five year-old and all these things being done to these children. calling them orgasms around the clock. i counted them off and sent it to my colleague. in the ethical field of science, well, okay. i'll do something else and take care of it. that was 1980. they didn't take care of it, and it took me years to figure out why. it turned out that, yes, his research became the foundation for major changes, every major change in our sex law and has gone through to today globally. i just came back from a global toward. kinsey is