>> watch this and other programs online that the tv daughter work. >> up next, charles sykes argues increasing number of americans they are entitled to benefits of the hard work of others. it occupied at the start legitimate protest against wall street victories have come to exemplify this way of thinking. this is just over an hour. >> good evening. hey, i got a response. i'm lenore hurley, on the next chapter bookshelf analogy thank you for coming out in support of our guests. a few little things to mention before we begin. one, please send cell phones before you begin so those don't go off in the middle of the talk. we greatly appreciate it. as he noticed we have a camera crew here tonight. he spent two or book cb is here

to tape charley's topic were going to ask you to please raise your hand and then wait until our sound guy with the long boom comes near you so they can pick up the sound of your question for the taping. so we can handle that. broke up with that. okay, wonderful. charlie will speak for a bit and then take your questions will hopefully have the lively discussion. afterwards at this table in the room to assign sigh and personalize your books. if you haven't purchased a copy is available at the end of the program as well. tonight is a remarkable opportunity, a chance to see, hear and meet an author. i staff and i work hard to provide these opportunities were never changing -- and an ever-changing, ever challenging environment. if you enjoy today's program would greatly appreciate if you'd remember to mention next chapter bookshelf to somebody new. sign-up for e-mail newsletter. it takes the support of a full community to keep the bookstore

going. remember you have a locally owned independent bookstore in your community that pays its taxes, creates jobs and believes firmly in the freedom to speak one's mind and i think those are values we can all agree with. so please give a warm welcome for charlie sykes. [applause] >> thank you. i'm usually not this tall, just so you know. it's always a lot of fun when you talk about abu because unlike radio, radio of course is instant gratification. you say something that goes out. with the book you write it anyway tenuate tenuate and a year or so after that they publish it in that people notice that. so i've had a chance to go around and do a number of talk shows and haven't done any bookstores yet, so really pleased to be here. i was at a political event talking with some legislatures about this. it is a nation that you choose.

"a nation of moochers: america's addiction to getting something for nothing" another politician says that sounds interesting. can i get a free copy? [laughter] and thinking he wasn't really getting it or maybe if you're a government long enough you're just so used to giving away other peoples money but it just seemed natural. like i don't have to pay for that, right? one of the first questions i get astoria like to be asked is okay, why miniatures? where did you come up with that, what a weird word that would be. the publishers in new york is a pushback on that. they wanted some daylight a nation of freeloaders, dependency nation or entitlement culture. i kind of dug in on this one and i said it's really got to be moocher because it is such an old fashion word.

it needs to have a come back now. i just came back from rereading eying rands atlas shrugged and she talks about the looters and it captured a lot of things going on and it was appropriately pejorative in the introduction i say that if you're a cocktail party tacna some corporate executive just bragging about how he got back from washington and have some special break, i don't know low-interest taxpayer-funded loan or something like that but if you are to respond by saying so, you are a moocher. now you might ruin the party, but you at least hope clarify what is going on here. i also try to define and i'm not going to read extensively from it, but one of the things i've tried to do, i really did set out to not make this a completely walkie book that i tried to mix up a number

different interactive chapters of the book, including what i call the moocher checklist which you can take on. you can see am i a moocher? the reality is a lot of sr. we are all born good shares and it's the multiple collation of machine is the theme of the book. i try to define what i mean by moocher. a moocher is someone who believes there is always the free lunch, no should pay for it. someone who expects others to pay to clean up their messes. someone who lays claim to something for which they are not rightfully do. some initiates the cost of their responsibility to others to behave responsibility of the matter of choice to take him or her efforts and resources of others. but it takes unfair advantage of others who enrich themselves or the risk of themselves out. some in his recipient of the wealth created by others without just cause our lives off the

productive of others and appropriates the first of their price without making a proportionate contribution and someone who voluntarily seeks to be dependent on others. of course the whole question of the book is whether we've reached the tipping point, whether we've got to the point where more of our american will get to the point where more americans are looking to other people to bail them out for free peace or entitlement to transfer payment. we've reached this remarkable moment in american culture where we have a think at the heritage foundation last week said what he meant by 5% of americans no longer pay any federal income tax. last year for the first time the federal government paid out more in the form of dennis said, actually wrote out more checks for larger amounts than the federal government took in in income taxes. at the same time fewer and fewer americans are paying in. more and more americans are dependent on government.

so a lot of the book does do with that question of what kind of a nation do you become if in fact we get to the point where 50, 60, 70% of households in this country received more from the federal government than they pay in. part of -- sometimes when i discuss people want to focus on one aspect or another. one of the points i hope people take away from the book is what has happened is we have multiplied the forms of mooching across the board. something happened during the great ill out what you would wall street companies, aig, goldman sachs, general motors go to the federal government and say we've been reckless, greedy, irresponsible. bail us out. do not hold us responsible for decisions because one of that happen, the rest of the country understandably says okay, if

you're getting a freebie, a bailout, where his mind? at a chapter called the moocher's dilemma. i want to have two of the many chapters for you. this is based on reality. consider the escalating temptations in the moral dilemmas in the same areas. number one, car keys left in a a parked car in the butter left running. do take advantage of the situation drive off in the car? why or why not? number two, the clerk at the grocery store gizzi too much money change. you keep it and point out the mistake, why or why not? number three, your bank statement includes a larger balance then you believe is warranted and released the bank has made a mistake and credit your account with too much money. to take the money or can't say he made a mistake. number four, government employee comes to your door with a check for disaster aid. you do nothing to deserve the

money and suffered no damage at all. he explains do is legal and you're entitled to the cash. if you object saying i don't need this money, it helped point out if he done except to check from your neighbor will just get a bigger check on your neighbor who also has probably suffered no damage. so what do you do? to accept the check? most people would accept a check and what is your decision based on? cared or, morality or common sense. at a certain point in american culture would have been, i think is the people who play by the rules, the people who work and put money in 401(k)s, try to get an education they can afford with a degree that will actually get them a job, buy a house they intend to pay for, those people -- what happens when i look around and go okay i'm the. i am the because we are rewarding and encouraging takers rather than the makers.

what happens not just to the economics and politics of the country, but the cared or the country? i want to read one more thing and then i'll open up for hopefully a lively conversation although i hope you're not intimidated by the big boom that is coming. i piggy bank, which i suggest people read what people should not have a problem with high blood pressure. my 401(k)s down to resent employer can't do much but ficken may have to work until i'm 70 years old. i pay for pensions for public employees retired and 50s. i don't have enough money to go on vacation this year but i paid my fare share of the $2.6 million christies chinese to drink responsibly. i pay for bridges to nowhere. i driven 1997 honda accord i had to pay for my neighbors $41,000 electric car. i also build up the united auto workers. i contribute to my children's 529 college savings plan but since i don't qualify for

financial aid i pay for other peoples kids to go to school as well. i also pay for sociology clathrin stared out from a lack of social conscious and denounced as of the greek cover racism and environmental sensitivity. i exercise regularly, watch my cholesterol cannot pay for my own health insurance and co-pays and deductibles and i also pay for other peoples tonsillectomies come appendectomies and occasional ricer pasties. i pay medicare, medicaid and medical programs for poor children and i get to subsidize health care several million more nonelderly non-impoverished americans. my small business just wants to find a credit that i pay to bail as citigroup, aig, goldman sachs as executives get annual bonuses bigger than my entire net worth. i pay my mortgage, but they also pay the bill of banks to make risky loans and yuppies who have trouble paying $700,000 mortgages on mansions they

bought with no down payments and adjustable deals. i pay for groceries for my family but i also pay millionaire farmers to not grow stuff lake ray's. i buy dinner for more than 42 million food stamp recipients although they now cost two chairs. i pay for school lunches and breakfasts and for their parents cannot be expected to see their own kids. i get red meat once a week, but i pay for urban hipsters to buy organic salmon at whole foods. i pay my electricity and gas bills, but also by the people's air conditioning, cell phone, digital television, subsidize rent and remodeling. i pay for my daughter's alley lessons, but he also pay for universities to develop computerized choreography programs to help create interactive dance performances with real-time audience interactions. i probably won't go to make the show since i'll be working. i'm trying to save enough money case i lose my job, but i pay for more than 70 different means

tested poverty programs because i work an unsuccessful in intent or sad to pay more than 71% of the total federal income tax burden for the top 50% of earners pay 97.11%. another is the bottom half of american earners theoretically 50% of the voters pay less than 3% of federal income taxes. i pay for them. i pay property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, taxes on the phone, cable, water, state income taxes, medicare taxes prevails to pay the bills for the nearly half of households who no longer pay federal income tax. i also pay bills for 6% to 70% of households who receive more from the government than they pay in. expect no gratitude for any of this. it's been years since the term provider is a matter of his act and personal pride. i understand the transfer of wealth drugmakers to takers is seen as morally pure than the efforts of those who create wealth in the first lace.

i know my role. i am the piggy bank. so that is my own personal somewhat fictional rant. the situation get in america and i wonder at what point do people say all right. i know i'm supposed to do these things and play by the rules, but somehow it doesn't seem like i am being rewarded. again, i don't want this to be an issue about welfare or the poor. what happens with cronyism, various other forms of bailout. i think this has created momentum because it is say yes to one group of butchers, how do you say no to the next? i'd be glad to open this up for questions. if i do a dnc, i'll say i don't have the answer, but i'm guessing i have opinions on almost everything you had asked me about. and by the way, i really want to

thank you for coming out here because i am a huge fan of independent bookstores in local bookstores i just want to say really appreciate the fact that extractor is hosting this. it's one of the pleasures of life. with all of the things the internet can do a cannot give you the pleasure of wandering the stacks and give these this particular bookstore when i had one of my sons had learned to love books, just in another room over there, that was when he was about to speak and now he's six-foot five and is a georgetown university. so this particular bookstore has special memories for me. so who wants to be the first person to ask a question? or should i just heard opinions or brand unquiet yes. ..

you keep going in a certain direction and build up so much death you undermine the culture of the economy we can't come back. i am worried about it. i quote paul ryan in this book. he makes the point this is unsustainable. you look at what is happening in greece and europe and the social welfare state comes and our per-capita national debt is higher than grease so economically you get to the

point where you have a debt that is so large in relationship to the national economy that everything we assume about the american economy and its resilience is no longer true. what we do is assume everything will be ok because we are america. the world is changing and this is one of the ways. the other problem is i think we have two parallel cultures in america. we have the older culture of self-reliance and independence and playing by the rules. if you want to buy a house you buy a house you can afford. if you want to buy a car you pay for yourself. that culture. side-by-side emerging entitlement culture, this notion that if i want something it becomes my right, my right means you buy it for me for free. that culture is changing in this country and you see it in the polls and the public dialogue we have. one tipping point when it comes to the economy. the other when it comes to the

culture. i try to be optimistic about it but this is the year that if we keep going in this direction i am not sure we can come back or if we come back we will be a very different country. >> what do you see as the role for people like myself versus the majority of people who are middle aged and have gone through the current system? at 25 years old looking at my future, what do people like me do who don't want to be part of the entitlement culture? >> you have taken the first step by buying my book. this is part of it. i wonder whether -- i am not completely sure that young

people understand we are engaging in the greatest intergenerational transfer of wealth in human history. this is the mother of all mooching. 40% of every dollar we spend comes from you and your kids. the first is to understand how much you have at stake. a lot of us are going we know these entitlement programs, as long as they last long enough--as long as the money doesn't run out before we run out it will be okay. you don't have that luxury. part of that is generational leap you have to address the fact that we baby boomers are squandering the see corn for you guys. in terms of the pendulum there's a pendulum swinging back on this

a little bit. the economy has helped with this but this is one of those moments where what we need to do is give you guys the reality check, we use the phrase bubble wrap the younger generation excessively, they are entitled to taking too anything they want. we saw that with occupy wall street. time for a reality check. you are going to have to go out and achieve something and build something but hopefully we won't have screwed things up by the time you get there. as a baby boomer i can say this. in terms of perspective the way that we celebrated ourselves, how wonderful we were. what is our great legacy going to be? the greatest generation fought world war ii. we rebelled against them and spend all of our kids's money.

think about that. >> in my first career delivering newspapers, shovelling snow, i got my first full time job when i was 14 years old. now i have been working ever since. that officially makes me a sucker. >> i hope not. >> what i am concerned about is the belief that our society is not going to be successful in the upcoming elections because we have people who are willing to spend one hundred million dollars on the shoe to train. >> i heard this.

>> a million dollars on a company -- where is this money coming from? >> 50% of the kids who graduate, how can they not become moochers if they want to become moochers? i have always been optimistic personally but if you can't even make it out of high school what is your future? >> when you have a huge portion of american culture that doesn't think that is the problem because they think there are programs for them you listen to a lot of the dialogue in urban areas and there is the assumption of in confidence. the assumption that we can't expect you to get an education or manage your life the we are going to make you dependent.

the other thing i talk about is the learned helplessness of dependency where what happens after 30 or 40 years of the dependency culture? you undermine the sense that i need to take responsibility for my life or my future or my children. you see that. you mentioned some spending plans. u.s. question. we need to keep asking where does the money come from? is this program so valuable that we are willing to borrow another hundred million dollars from the chinese? is this so crucial that we have to go further into debt? what we have is that -- in the fed moochers culture at some point we intellectually know is unsustainable. margaret thatcher was right. sooner or later you run out of other people's money but they think if it is free to me is free. i will get money from the stash as quickly as i can and if we

are running out of it that will be somebody else's problem. it will be the rich. it will be some other group we managed to marginalize or it will be future generation and that is what we are doing. i will give you free stuff. it is not your responsibility. we will tax somebody else. we are going to penalize somebody else or borrow the money. a lot of americans understand if we go bust at some point as a figure it won't be my problem as long as i get my stuff. yes? >> you mentioned georgetown. i wonder if you are concerned about your son falling and beauty influence in some fashion or other of the sec's starved girls in law school. >> i understand at georgetown university they have $3,000 worth of sex a year.

i went to gw m. the story he is referring to is actually a classic story. once in awhile i wish i had gotten that in the book because this is a story of a very earnest young georgetown law student who says we have to have sex a lot and you need to pay for free contraception otherwise you will go broke. on the larger point she really is redefining what rights are. i have a chart in the book, this whole process. i want something, therefore it becomes my need, therefore i need to transform it into a right. if it is a right it is an obligation of other people to give it to me for free. i am not questioning her right to have sex. that is heard deal. i am not questioning her right to have contraception. that she is insisting that if i wanted and it is my right that

it should be free. this is the new ideology. you can apply that to one area of life after another. half of americans think i want this or i want this and you're depriving me of a right if someone doesn't pay for it, then again we have completely redefined rights, responsibilities and obligations in this culture. i will talk about that over the weekend. he is about to head off on spring break. >> thank you for being a voice for so many of us. i feel insignificant. carrying on with what you are talking about, the mainstream media, for story about the co-ed at georgetown, four years ago futile that you would have been laughed out of the room. but in this day and age the

mainstream media treats those as profound intellect and things we need to study very carefully. how did the mainstream media get to be that? >> that may be my next book. i can only cover certain things at a time. i am fascinated by the transformation of the media. the good news is we live in an age, the proliferation of media. social media, alternative media. we are able to get out ideas. you feel insignificant but you shouldn't because there is still more of us. we now have a way of getting a voice out that we don't in the past. it used to be that the only way if you were a conservative that he would see other conservative ideas was subscribe to one or two weekly magazines or magazine out every other week. now there are so many other ways

of getting this out so that when you have somebody say and i deserve free stuff the mainstream media says this is an example how we need to be a more compassionate society. there are millions of americans who remember you are not necessarily end titles. hopefully what we can do to make it clear you are not alone that a lot of people have the same reaction you had. think about how profound the intellectual shift is. when you have somebody this well educated, she was invited to speak at a congressional committee and the entire assumption of that was that my behavior imposes an obligation on the federal government to give me something for free so that i can continue to have unlimited consequence free sex and she said with a straight face and how remarkable if you

had the decisionmakers the additional our masters in washington say what wonderful role model for children. all right. this is the new deal. you can replace that with free lunches or free converter boxes for digital television, whenever, this whole idea that i have a right to freebies. think about how many freebies we have out there. we live in the era of freebies. cash for clunkers. wireless, welfare programs, explosion of food stamps. you go off and make awful business decisions and run to ben bernanke and get them to give you the keys to the kingdom. we are living in a rather extraordinary historic moment and she was the face this week. >> do you feel -- [inaudible]

>> we all have a little bit of john galt in us. i pick and choose -- i do think description -- john galt with the cheese head. you realize john galt was from wisconsin. the pivotal scene in the book is when a factory in wisconsin decides what they're going to do is change the way that -- they will pay everybody based on need the additional not the basis of their productivity. what happens is if you want to get more money you become the neediest person. you work the least and develop all kinds of ways in which you are a victim. all sorts of ways in which you are needier than everybody else. the people who worked hardest realize i am working for the

benefit of other people. john galt being the cheese head he was stand up and goes i am out of here. i quit. i am not going to participate in this system. the problem is when you become a country in which people do things, the makers are working for the benefit of the kickers, when they feel they are the suckers or whatever the pejorative word is, than what you are going to have is people saying why should i continue to do that? why shut i continue to work for the benefit of the system that not only does not respect me and reward me but which demonizes me and confiscates money from me? there's a little bit of john galt in everyone which explains in part why when we keep raising the marginal rate politicians are shocked to find out revenue doesn't rise. people do not work harder to get

more money from the government. they find all kinds of ways to do that. it is an interesting question. [inaudible] >> what can i do to make a difference? people mentioned -- you have a wonderful opportunity. how do i go out there where of of my friends laughed at me for listening to talk radio. how do like that people -- [inaudible] >> you need to get new friends. [talking over each other] >> this goes back to this new media. every single person can have a voice. you don't have to have corporate backing to have facebook or be

on twitter or do these things. what you are expressing that you feel very counter cultural and isolated. i am not sure you are. one of the reasons i like writing a book like this is i want to clarify what is going on, what the issues are. once you sort of lay out this is what is happening to the country and these are the ideas behind it, i think it becomes easier to realize we are not the problem. we are not for freaks in america. it is the people who believe that there is this endless bottomless trough of other people's money. don't despair on that but continue to speak out. >> the people in my generation -- i am not going to research or understand the economy that it will run out.

i will just say this wonderful -- [inaudible] >> i wish i had an easy answer. i will be giving a talk next month on the cost of economic illiteracy. one of the experiences i had been on talk radio but also as an author people are very smart. they have a great deal of common sense. when it comes to economics and financial literacy there is a real deficit. in part because we haven't talked anyone and we focused -- i wrote a book called dumbing down our kids. why kids can't read, write or do math and stories about historical ignorance or kids who can't find england on a map which is a serious problem but frankly pale in comparison to what people don't understand or don't know about basic finance. let's be honest. the entire credit card industry is based on people being bad at

math. not to mention politicians realize if voters are bad at math was a great opportunity for as to promise them all kinds of things they won't even ask how you pay for it. we rail against the darkness. >> the reason the government has a spending problem is it has incentive to send. it takes food stamps as an example. forty two million people just bought forty two million votes and in the case of west virginia everything is named after bob bird. he built monuments to himself and the west virginians don't get upset because that money could come from wisconsin, florida, texas, wherever. how do you legalized bribery, buying votes? how do you remove that

incentive? >> you remove the incentive by taking money out of their hands. that is the problem and why you need to make it as difficult as possible but you are absolutely right. i quote in the book -- i admire -- a liberal progressive writer used to be a writer for the washington post. he essentially makes the same case that we are making from the other side. he wrote a piece for the atlantic called the obama coalition say we create permanent electoral majority by expanding these benefit programs and getting as many people to by expanding the number of government and police and benefits programs and the number of people who get a check from the government, you get to the point where you -- the electorate becomes dependent on government. under obamacare you have vast majority of the extension of the middle class and the problem is i don't have a problem feeding

the hungry. i don't have a problem with being compassionate. i got called squished by somebody in massachusetts this morning. i really don't. once you begin expanding it has widely as we have you have to ask whether or not dependency is the goal for the goal of state that they are intending to do that. you are right. the easiest thing in american politics is to say i got something free for you. all hardest thing is to go in and says we can't afford that. you can't have that. you have to pay for that yourself. when he said he will take all you guys on the cruise to the caribbean and promised you all this stuff, his check just bounced. in american politics he is still popular guy and the guy who says his check bounced is considered

mean. >> in your book you talk about healthcare and the expectations that healthcare is provided by the government for birth control or insurance companies provide birth control. >> i was able to get to the birth control issue because the book came out before we decided that was the latest entitlement. what is about to happen with health care is a dramatic expansion, looking to the government to pay for it. there are also a couple -- i have a section in the book that talks about what this is going to mean for the middle class. the middle-class is in this crunch furthermore money you make you can get to the point where you're in, you get to keep less money the more you make. you are basically screwed the harder you work. when it comes to the way the health care law is structured there are incentives built in where the more money you make

the less subsidy you get for your health care premium and after a certain point you just drop off a cliff. i don't think many people realize there is a point where if you make literally one more dollar you will lose something like $17,000. you are going to be having middle-class families, that conversation does take place. you really want to work harder? we really want a second job? do we want to take that promotion? should we take over time? because the more money we make the less we get and lose money. we are getting close to that. that was the question you asked about that dependency. going back to thomas edison who would say the way you create that permanent progressive collector will majority, get as many people looking to politicians to make decisions

about their lives and give them benefits and this health-care reform is going to exponentially increase -- once that goes in to play it will be extremely hard to unravel that. anyone who says he will be able to repeal that four five years down the road doesn't understand the dynamic of american politics. we in wisconsin have a sense that the most dangerous place in the world to be is between a public employee and the public trough. we found that out. a scary place to be. you get between people and that health care dollar you know what that will be like. right here. [inaudible] >> my opinion of the middle east situation. you really want to know? if i could give you an answer but if you think i am an expert on that i am not.

my opinion is it is totally screwed up and has been my entire lifetime. and will be for the rest of my lifetime. >> sorry about the loss of your family member. >> thank you. >> there have to be taking the cover and what will i keep talking for a 3-1/2 hours? do we have so much material out there? >> well -- for the last three years there has been no shortage of material to talk about on any given day. on the other hand i would be not telling you the truth if i didn't say that it would be great to have one of those jobs where you get up and go i will slowly work in to the day and read the paper and have coffee

until 10:00 or if i have to talk about the federal budget deficit one more day i will swallow my head. i got to go to work every day. got to do it. no point complaining about it. it pays the bills. i hope so. i hope it does. one of the things is i really like being able to sit down and write a book. it is different from doing a radio show. doing a radio show is very spontaneous. very consumable. when you write a book you have to really think through issues that are completely different level. i enjoy doing it. is difficult and time-consuming. any of you that our authors in the room and one other author knows a chronic disease every day. if i could imagine every day a term paper to do but there is a real sense of satisfaction. in a lot of ways they say why do

you write books when on the radio? the book in some ways keeps me sane because it makes me think it through and have some perspective on that. it is a chronic disease. it goes on forever and ever. i thought you would understand that. >> i read something somewhere that says liberals profess to be more intelligent. if they are so smart how come they are not getting this conference? >> liberals are more intelligent. they will tell you that all the time. they are also more tolerant and compassionate except when they're telling you what a redneck bigot you are or something like that. there's an interesting difference. i am always fascinated by the difference between intelligence

and good judgment. i have known some really intelligent, sophisticated people who have the worst judgment i have ever met. if you read david mamet's book he comes the closest to describing what goes un. it is almost tribal. you belong to this cultural club. if you are part of this club you share a certain set of values that you are the good people. the caring and compassionate people who are more sophisticated and the people who aren't in the club if you dare to say maybe you are wrong about that, may be that is not the right thing your cast doubt and you don't have that secret knowledge. it is almost like there are intelligent people but certain believes you have to have an if you start saying the wrong finger you become a bad person. i don't spend a huge amount of time on this but as a former liberal i describe myself as a recovering liberal and my dad was president of the civil liberties union in wisconsin.

my first political campaign was anti-war candidate eugene mccarthy. i was once chairman of the north shore young democrat and when i was growing up liberals were the people who were the good people. a with a sophisticated people. conservatives were been. you were greedy. you were prejudiced. my hole upbringing was part of this liberal culture. i was comfortable until i began saying maybe these government programs don't really help people. maybe what we are seeing here with these urban welfare programs not only are not helping people but destroying families. destroying communities. destroying the fabric of the culture. maybe these ideas are having an intended consequences. what happens is people go what happened to you? how did you become so mean? has my former liberal friends would say when did you sell out?

we don't have the ability to change our minds and ask these questions? going directly to your question there's a real difference between people who evaluate a program based on whether it works and whether it is effective or how it makes you feel. lot of liberals support these programs because it shows how compassionate and caring they are. as they are the good people. they care about children and the downtrodden. when you ask them is actually improving the condition and the opportunity of the children who are downtrodden, what is important is we care. if you question it you don't care. i began recovering liberal by asking questions like that and at some point not particularly caring whether liberals like me or not. >> a number of people with the concept of growing moochers numbers isn't it kind of an

ironic that the people who are supporting our paying fees, once who aren't going to be the givers, does that make sense? people who are supposedly the ones that giving out all this free stuff that they support programs but it is going to be bigger, people taking even from the program? >> i don't think many of them have a grasp that. the interesting thing is there have been a number of studies indicating that conservative and churchgoers are much more generous when it comes to giving money, much more charitable. so that if you define as a progressive i show that i am progressive and that i care by taking your money from you, you give more money to him as

opposed to that. there is that problem. once again, if you see things from an emotional point of view or a litmus test whether you're a good person you are not running those numbers. you are not thinking about that. to have a conversation, get the deficit, we are expanding the dependency and what you will get is we need to raise taxes higher, like it is not enough that the 10% are paying whatever percentage they're paying. they need to pay more. politicians will always figure out -- there's nothing new about this. go to in ancient rome or thomas jefferson they want about this. when you reach that point in democracy where people realize they can simply use the government as an instrument of plunder, it is very difficult to dial that back.

yes? [inaudible] >> warren buffett saying i am not paying enough in taxes and then hollywood actors why aren't they giving away their money first? >> it was chris christie who said something like warren buffett is concerned about that he should write a check. [talking over each other] >> spend your money. >> the interesting thing about warren buffett and the hollywood elite, they are the rich. you don't get hammered by the increased taxes, be not yet reached. of people working and struggling to put their kids through school and want to have that american dream. they are not there yet. it is easy to say we have a gazillion dollars and lawyers that will make sure we pay the

minimum amount of tax and lecture the rest of us on how greedy we are for wanting to be -- our money. the problem with warren buffett is not that he doesn't get paid enough. it is that he feels he can now become a spokesman for government confiscating taking more money out of the private economy. that is the concern. i am more concerned about the not yet rich and i am about the rich. >> it was interesting when you talk about being a recovering liberal. i am 20 years old and a college student. my family, most of them are pretty liberal. my mom is even though that is a conservative area my mom is one of the foremost figures -- i have actually are radically in of sins going to college and to have different viewpoints and i am pretty much a conservative

now. sins the problem is lots of my family members are -- >> did your mom want you to have that dna tests? [talking over each other] >> my mom was surprised about that. the problem is my other family members are liberal. my uncle and aunt were related to the last -- when you shifted your political views to the right, your dad was like the civil liberties union--where they accepting or eventually say we are ok? >> my dad was making the same transition almost coincidentally when i was. we didn't have a conflict. maybe it was easier to do that. what i did find was the number of friends i lost, the number of people who thought i was just a wonderful, honest, intelligent person when i was a liberal and suddenly became corrupt and hypocritical and stupid and a sellout when i began to question

whether these things worked. part of it is you are willing to put up with a certain amount of batch. what you should say is disagree with my ideas without attacking me as a person. this is beyond the scope of my book. one of the things as a recovering liberalize noticed i generally think people on the other side of the political spectrum are wrong. i think they have an incorrect analysis of economic leverage nor different definition of fairness and opportunity than are would have. they have different attitudes toward the entitlement culture. we disagree. they think conservatives are evil, are bad people. obviously i am generalizing but i think that might explain the poison we have in american politics. the poison that a person has disgraced themselves by having the wrong political views. but good luck with that.

i am always fascinated by young people who go into college and become more conservative. in part because you have a little contrarian in you. your rebellion. you are the guy with the ponytail and you were bell in college. you're rebelling against the political orthodoxy. >> i was pretty liberal and would have voted for obama. [talking over each other] [laughter] >> we have to not lower the voting age anymore. >> your relationship with management before the debate m.

how you got to be very clear what this is about. it is not because i have a pretty face. >> i want to say your dad was one of my -- [inaudible] -- what is your sense of the silent majority in terms of the national -- [inaudible] -- sir you getting a sense? >> i don't know.

i don't know nationally. things have been so confusing. in wisconsin i do think you get the sense that this silent majority and small majority, what we saw over the last year, i have a chapter about the empire strikes back in wisconsin. what happens when the government says the governor or politician who says we need to resolve these problems, what do we see? we saw nothing but the drums and protests and you have gone through six for seven months believing that everybody hated what was going on and absolutely in an uproar and then you had the election for state supreme court judge and recall election and it turned out not everybody felt that way. not everybody by a long stretch.

the silent majority can't hang out at the capitol and below the -- the seventh majority has to go to work to pay taxes and raise their kids but they can come out and vote. this is one of those areas where do not get discouraged if you don't get people like you out there on the streets. i understand there was a very difficult period. you've got to understand there are more people out there working hard trying to pay taxes to make a living. unfortunately the only time you get to be heard is daring and election which of course the only things we here in wisconsin, attempt to overturn that election because we had a yearlong temper tantrum. the average joe asks a significant position, in terms

of -- i know i over use the term tipping point because i actually do because there's a tipping point. what happens in wisconsin with reforms that happen here? we in wisconsin are in this extraordinary political moment. we have paul ryan and scott walker whose sins of talking about solving these problems what if we were to make the fundamental reforms and structural changes to put us on a sustainable path? what happens? are they going to be rewarded for that courage for fixing problems as opposed to a blue-ribbon task force or kick pecan down the road or will they be thrown out of office? every other state is watching this. members of congress watching this. we talked about political courage. , cheese here is to give people stuff. if scott walker goes down the politicians throughout this country will see that as a clear

indication. don't try to fix these problems. if you want to stay in office avoid a blue-ribbon task force. there are lots of different things. the people who want to be in politics want the titles and want to be important and want people to suck up to them all the time. en there are the doers. people get the public life because they want to do something and fix something. what we will find out is whether or not we really want people who will do something because trust me. if we don't get it right in wisconsin where the chances they will get it right in washington? that anyone will deal with social security or medicaid or medicare or the fact the we have a debt that is growing larger than the entire u.s. economy? how are we going to get a political class that will tell

the american people you can have free electric car or all of this. a new house if the politicians who say no are kicked out of office. we know a lot more at the end of the year than we do now and whether or not we have reached the point where a majority of americans -- if you want my vote you got to tell me how much you are going to give me. if i vote for that other guy he will take away my freebies because i have a right to that. asked at georgetown law students. a few more questions. >> following up on that sins the last election when walker won i forget what the margin was. to recall people realize that problem is going to happen again? the people who voted for walker

the bristles some will not vote for walker. they will vote -- >> they're counting on you peel the independents him may have liked the results but not the process. of period where a lot of people saw the chaos in madison and in some of blaming and and people creating the chaos they blamed on the governor. to be very candid with you, a lot of them know that they won't be able to run on the collective bargaining reform budget but hoping this john doe investigation comes up with something that will take the governor down which is why i talk about that. nationally everyone sees this as a referendum on the budget. i tend to agree with you. i talked to people in madison all the time. that is an alternative reality. these people are constantly

freaked out. you need to come to milwaukee county wore washington county. come to the real world because i don't sense any loss of support among scott walker's base. >> people who voted for walker last time will have these -- the majority of them are government workers whose livelihood was affected and they will vote against him. >> not a majority were government employees but that is one of the concerns. you start with a base of 300,000 government employees who would vote no that might change the dynamic a little bit.

when you talk about the culture i spend a good deal of time in this book talking about how we have gone off and created this privileged class. i am not denigrating public employees. i am not saying they should be demonized. i am saying let's have a reality check of how different the world is for people who are paying the bill and what a sweet deal they have. the frustrating thing is to watch all these people talking about this is the new egypt and our rights are being destroyed because you have to pay 12% of your health care premium. the average american pays 25% of their health care premium. they have to contribute to their own pension. they were paying nothing. to have a culture in which people feel so entitled to a

lavish pension and lavish health care and not contribute to virtually anything at all and we have seen this revolution in wisconsin. with happening in wisconsin is in a lot of ways of preludes to what will happen. what happens when you start going after the other transfer programs or entitlement programs? someone mentioned the mainstream media i found it fascinating that president obama spoke out against reforms on collective bargaining. it was only after a month of all this that somebody says federal employees by enlarge do not have collective bargaining rights and the extent they have a union they are not allowed to bargain for wages and benefits so the left is demonizing what governor walker is doing in wisconsin, federal workers have never under democrats or republicans been

granted those collective bargaining rights and how many stories in the dead tree made that point. we have to do some time. thank you. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> they wear this in class. in public schools they where political things. sins conservatives are always accused of being in tolerant

anyway we ought to be intolerant of that kind of propaganda in public schools. ought to push back on all of that. here is the reality. it is unethical. it is unethical to use that position. as a form of bullying to do that. i understand how difficult it is to take a stand because you are afraid your child will be affected but it is a breach of trust, a breach of confidence. for me, my real frustration, i have written about education for 20 years, i have tremendous respect for teachers and i wish they would have more respect for themselves. it wants to be treated and regarded as professional because it ought to be treated as professional as opposed to the decision that too many of them make that they would rather be trade union activists. you can either be lockstep trade

union members who did not get rewarded for being better or held accountable for you can be a professional. somebody who is rewarded for being gifted. i don't have any problem at all with paying six figures to outstanding teacher. if you are an inspired teacher and you change kids lives and everything possible to incentivize and reward that but on the flip side if you are burned out, if you are dead weight he should be treated the way any other profession -- we should not have a system that protect mediocrity. this is a challenge for teachers. i hope some of them would rise to this because it is a calling to be a teacher and we have turned it into this sort of factory unionized setting. otherwise you wouldn't see stories like that. when you say wouldn't it be

great if we treated teachers like professionals, that is what is described as teacher bashing. thank you very much. appreciate it very much. and [applause] >> you are watching 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2's booktv. >> here's a look at some books being published this week. in the passage of power, the years of lyndon johnson, forced -- the fourth book in the biography of the president, mr. caro examines johnson's transition from vice president of president following the assassination of john f. kennedy. steve cole, president of the new america foundation and staff writer for the new yorker investigates exxon mobile's corporate culture and environment in world politics in private empire, exxon mobile and

american power. in the tyranny of glitches bleak chill how liberals chief in the war of ideas, founding editor of the national review online argues that liberals use clichess and empty phrases to disguise their ideological agenda. congressional scholars thomas mann and mormon orangesigned on how congress has become dysfunctional in it is even worse than it looks:how the american constitutional system collided with the new politics of extremism. in chasing the race to measure the heavens and real wolf chronicles the journey of 18th-century astronomers to measure the transit of venus and the signs of the solar system. seth jones, former adviser and officer to the commanding general u.s. special operations forces in afghanistan presents history of al qaeda terrorism in hunting in the shadows:the

pursuit of al qaeda since 9/11. look for these titles in bookstores this coming we can watch for the authors in the near future on booktv. >> opal work cards that no one in america knows about. but the suspicion was raised when i realize the back of the car was lowered to the ground than the front. given the rules of engagement you can just shoot someone because they look suspicious. why did you shoot him? i got scared. you got scared? so you killed a man? yes, sir. i have a gun. you can't do that. given the rules of engagement you can just shoot someone unless you know they have a weapon, you know they are aiming for you know they killed someone

or they are in the action. i could just shoot someone who looked suspicious. i knew the best thing to do was yell at him to get out of his car. i was looking over my left shoulder if facing him and the lead striker vehicle, had metal up to my name all around me. i was inside the striker standing up. i still had my am 4 and had mike adler on, doing everything i was supposed to do. looked at him and said get out of your vehicle and i knew he heard me because he looked straight at me and raised his hands off of the steering wheel and put them back down. nothing happened. maybe he understood or saying i don't know where i am, i am

lost, i didn't know. i yelled at him again and he raised his hand again of of the steering wheel and let his foot off of the break. i had to make a decision so i shot two rounds in front of the vehicle and my world went black. i woke up a week or so later in walter reed army medical center, my life forever change. my world went black not only physically being blind the rest of my life, shrapnel had cut my left eye in half and ended the left side of my brain and metal went into the right eye going through my cornea to my retina and taking out my optic nerve. i saw nothing but black less. i was told by the autumn of this, you will never see again. so my life when physically black that they but also when

spiritually black. i know longer believed in god. everything i had done and believe in no longer meant anything to me. i remember one of my best friends coming into the room before one of my surgery saying why don't you say a prayer? i said no. i don't know how to pray. i don't know god. the room went dead silent. if there were cockroaches in the room you would have heard them. my wife went back to her room realizing i had been married to an awesome man and i still am, and i would be fine being married to a blind guy but being married someone who didn't believe in what he believed in before meant something different. so she began to pray. friends began to pray all around the world. for me it was a choice i had to make.

a personal choice. friends would come into my room on a daily basis singing christian songs. doctors fought our room was creepy because. would be coming out. it came back to me. i had to make a choice. i had to choose to make a difference. my company commander called me to see how i was doing. we were friends. my brigade commander, commanding general of fort benning called me every week to see how he was doing. something that doesn't normally happen. the support i had was amazing. people like toby keith, country singer and gary sinise, the actor, generals would come in to see me and i would say i don't want to see them. one day my wife said scotty,

andrew wants to see you. she didn't say who it was, but something hit me. it was andrew harris, the boy i taught sunday school with three years earlier leaders and had driven down from west point with his dad to see me. i don't know if i knew that they were the days to come that the impact i had made on that younger child has done a 180 and now this child was positively impacted me in an amazing way. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> you are watching a tv on c-span2. here's our prime-time lineup for tonight starting at 7:00 p.m. eastern. from google headquarters, copyright law. at 8:00 the debate on the truth