sensitive to the possibility of prosecution, and had tried to erect barriers in a 480 of ways, including slicing and dicing and rewriting criminal laws to protect themselves from accountability and to protect themselves from civic league criminal liability. >> you can watch this and other programs on line at booktv.org. >> necks, from the national black writers conference, panel discussion entitled the impact of popular culture on politics and literature. the panelists include william jelani cobb author and associate for besser of africa and the studies at rutgers university. keli goff author and political analyst, author anthony grooms, lita hooper playwright and poet,

michael simanga executive director of the national black arts festival and reference conrad tillard senior pastor of mastering congregational church in brooklyn. this is about an hour and a half.est >> good afternoon everyone. out i can always find the best in everybody and we would have to bring out the controversial as jeremiah wright macias we'd have to bring out jeremiah wright. i'm really glad to be here this afternoon. having come to this writer's workshop for some years now both as a panelist and as one imbibing in the audience like most of you and it's been a wonderful experience. i'm also glad to be here because those being honored today are among my heroes and she rose this evening, ishmael reid and

those others who are going to be honored this evening. and, we also have, i am alsodive glad to be here because we have a very, not only distinguished but differs group of panelists who are really extremely well-versed in politics but also have made their own marks incula political writing and variousn genre's. i'm going to introduce them, not any particular order but i would ask you to raise your hand when i call your name. our first panelist, i recognize anthony grooms who identifies himself as a writer of conscience as he puts it, a writer of conscience and he writes on a variety of subjects in several genres from historical fiction to scienceo

fiction, but however is most notable writing has been an american civil rights movement, and some of you might be familiar with his fine fine work, bombing ham, a novel set in the civil rights period. also he has written trouble no more, a collection of stories and ice poems which is not aboud coolness. it is a poetry chat book. next we have reverend conrad tillard who is to my immediates- left, who is the author of the recently published, soon to be published, my father's house, and lamar uppman once calledt conrad mohammed.side he started his carissa student activist with the national studentnt coordinator in the 84 presidential campaign ofyout

reverend jesse jackson. g the hip-hop political activism. i first met him when he was at a mosque in harlem, a stalwart activist, and he followed his convictions and now serves as a southeastern pastor of nazarine congressional church, united church of christ congregation in brooklyn, and had the pleasure and honor in participating in political forums there. so he is among the too few political radical activist pastors. next is keli goff. a political commentator, and many of you have seen her on national news programs, through cbs, on cbs, the early show, the

joy behart, she was on msnbc seemed like every day, during the obama campaign, and she -- our paths have crossed not only on the panel but we are honored to be publishing the same collection as keli, a fine collection of president obama's race speak, you call the, his -- the book is called "the most perfect union" and she is the author of a book published last year, "the gq candidate." so we welcome her. we have dr. michael simanga, a multidiscipline author, scholar, director of the fulton county department of arts and -- >> former director. >> former director.

>> now part of the national black arts festival. >> that's right, yes, now director of the national black arts festival, which is major, major. i'm glad because i have been enjoying that are for decade. while he was at the fulton county department of arts and culture he produced over 200 cultural events, including exhibitions and festivals and films and has a doctorate in african-american studies and author of the widely acclaimed novel of "in the shadow of the sun" and he is co-ed for of the recently released very important book, anthology, titled "44 on 44." 44 african-american writers on the election of barack obama as 44th president of the united states, and last we have leta

hooper, whom i have here before me, and some folks are just so distinguished that sometimes it gives you -- takes you a minute to get yourself wrapped around them. that is lita hooper. a poet, play write and an educator and her work has appeared in numerous anthologies. but she is a co-ed did for -- co-ed for of 44. and she has printed a collection of poems. and she has been featured rather at numerous colleges across the country, including spellman and moorehouse college and savannah state university, and she has also been involved in many

writing work shops as participant and as instructor. very important political voice. and that concludes our panel. please welcome all of our panelists. thank you. that concludes my introduction of the panel. so you can see we have a very diverse panel with diverse approaches to literary genre and literary modes of expression. so if you're able to take full advantage of or get the full benefit from the range and viewpoints and onres of -- genres, i will open with a broad question that i will ask each panelist to answer. we're going to have a real democratic panel here. hope our rival brothers and sisters are watching and might

learn about letting everybody ross voice be heard and valued. let me offer a couple of clarifying definitions. certainly not an exhaustive definition of black literature, is that it is prized of fiction and nonfiction writing, including serious journalism, that emanates from black people's experience. so our purpose is today, when we talk about black experiences, we will be referring to black people's experiences in america. i think that's a useful working and basic working definition. politics, as we will use the term this afternoon, does not refer to electoral politics, although popular political attitudes do tend to influence electoral politics. but as we use these terms today, politics and the political refer

to the confluences of both factors that influence and often determine the distribution of wealth and power and resources and authority and social and economic class in society. these factors can be structural, like institutional and social structure. they can be relational, and they can be cultural, including popular culture and religion and so forth. so, when we talk about the relationship between politics ps and black literature today, we'll be talking about how institutional and social structures and economic some social relationships are reflected in black hit tour. how they influence black literature, and conversely, how politics and political attitudes and consciousness are affected by black literature. these processes can be overt and some volitional and reflective, conscious and unconscious,

propaganda in perspective and so on. however, in whatever way, these factors prize the relationship between politics and black literature. okay, now to our conversation. i'm posing the question each of you can tackle it, approach it in the way you see fit. give you a chance to really give a sense of your sense of political -- the role of politics in writing and so forth. how do you describe the role of politics as it's reflected in black writings in general and how it's reflected in your own work? do would you describe the role of politics as it's reflected in black writing, and in general,

historically, and how politics reflected in your own writing. let's start with brother simanga. >> thank you. >> brother dr. -- >> i go by reverend. writing of itself is a political act because it has to do with expression of ideas in a context of a society. or in today's world, the global society because of the technology that exists. so, when a writer sets their pen to person or their fingers to a keyboard or whatever their mode of transmitting their ideas are, it in itself is a political act. the second part of it, though, is that for people who come from

a certain experience as a people in our case, enslavement and struggle against jim crow and segregation and oppression and poverty and criminalization of our people, all of those things then become a part of what is being spoken to and spoken out of. yesterday we were on a panel talking about malcolm x,and malcolm0s voice resonated as an orator and writer, and part of our tradition is oral, a lot of our tradition -- our literary tradition oral. i have people who say they just finish evidence reading a book but what they meant was the lacenned to a book in the car, and is fine but that part hoff the tradition. rap music is the oral tradition of poetic literature. the black art movement spoke to poetry and you might read it on

them page but if you heard they had them read it, you understand it. so that's part of our literary tradition, too. but the act of speaking in your own voice, in a place that tries to suppress your voice, is a political act. and it requires an understanding thats it is a political act. and let me move very quickly through the context. the 20th century before great movement, literary movements that happened, artistic movements happened. the renaissance is the first. and that was in response to coming out of slavery. the second is the black arts movement. in responsibility to the civil rights and black power movement, particularly influenced by malcolm x. following the black arts movement, is this huge surge of black women's literature. ...

.. did that sound sensible? okay, we'll talk more about it in a minute. thank you. >> well, i came to writing through my interest in the black

arts movement. growing up in the suburbs of chicago i came up -- and has gulley came across a copy of but we face. and was so struck by the power and immediacy of those writers and that movement that i decided to study the black arts movement in school. when i went to grad school i concentrated on that. did not doubt that the black arts movement was not considered a major literary movement within american universities in the english department came up against a lot of resistance for studying a particular movement. when i was in chicago i had the fortune to meet and follow hockey mad booty. so when i was an undergrad i would go to readings and i would

listen and read his work and i was so struck again by the time i atomic educrats quite a sight of with the about him. i was fortunate enough to have an extensive interview in a lot of time with them. and as i was doing all of that, i was writing as well. so interestingly enough, though i was very moved by the placards movement and writers, my rating tended to be less overtly political, the more grounded in the familial and the everyday lives of everyday myths of likeness. probably because i was really struck by my parents and their story of moving from the south to north, which is a very important part of african american history from mississippi to chicago. some might earlier work, a lot of my portrait is about that. later move to more historical work, looking at the lives of black people like sojourner

truth working out on angelina could irk him and just kind of reclaim the sides. i think that it is of his political, but i think it allows for a discussion of why it -- what does it mean to be political in black literature? i don't think it has to be what we often think of when their overtly political. i think the everyday lives of black people is political in economic thought. >> first of all, and very pleased to be here and at the asian fantasies to be within atlanta crew. think almost everybody here is some connection with atlanta. i'm very happy to hear that we are talking about politics in a very broad way and i would add on to the definition here to say that politics is really good relationships between and among people.

not also encompasses a resource is distributed and how we react to various oppressive situations. my own work i am looking at the civil rights movement by and large. one of the things that occurs to me as a look at the topic of popular culture and politics in black writing this kind of the reverse and that is look at how popular writing has influenced particularly at the movies on the portrayal of black people and black experience. so what i want in part for my work in novels is to have that leave some counter story to it has been categorized as the race redemption novel. these novels which tend to create a great deal of sentimentality and i think

wrongheadedness at least emotionally wrongheadedness about the black x or the jim crow and the civil rights movement. what is important to me first of all using the media in one of the bits of media that influenced me was the eyes on the price theory back in the 80s. even though i will not, i deny it, but i'm old enough to have actually been a distant but first-hand witness of, for example, in 1863 birmingham movement. to see it again in the 80s on film, to see it rendered to the black-and-white pictures is a very influential, in my own rendering it into literary imagery. like wise looks like the bloods

of the oral histories of the outworn movement and other things have influenced me. what i try to do with that is to present very, very factually the experience of fictional but people who represent the will of had this real experiences of the time. and write about it and i think that too is a political act than i hope it is one that least complicated the simple and overly simplistic sentimental portrayals that we often see in the broader media. >> i'm also happy to be here even though i don't have an atlanta connection except for the fact i really like the airport when i'm not getting lost in it because it's really big. and i like the food there too because i'm from the south. but with all due respect to dr. hendrix, the two turn the

question on its ear a little bit and instead of focusing on the role of politics to writers, i think that sort of sense we live in the age of, you know, people like asher and dede wearing vote or die shirt and making sort of snap political commercials, you know, vote for obama without giving a reason why they are doing so, some of whom not even registered to vote when they were saying go vote for president obama themselves. i think it is really easy to be dismissive of the role that the arts have historically played in politics. and for anyone who hasn't seen it, i would really encourage you to see the new hbo documentary on harry belafonte because they think it provides a beautiful job of conveying just how important artistic act this and

can be. it can be just as important, sometimes even more so than traditional act of its own. some of the risk that he took with his career. you know, i really challenge how many artists of color who are cashing checks a lot bigger than his afterword would be willing to take the same risk for their career on behalf because they truly believe in. and so, i use it as an example because the hours have been in some ways some of the most versatile onset local activism we've ever had commit dating back to spiritual as having hidden meaning during slavery when harry tubman was coming to rescue ancestors and help them get freedom on the way through people like harry belafonte saying, if you don't want have mixed-race dancers dancing behind me, you won't have me on your airwaves, which is a risk he was willing to take.

and then fast-forward to the president in terms of working the story line and certain shows that might be considered questionable or controversial. and even up through the coffee show appeared in a way that was one of the most diverse of forms of media on in the 1980s. the idea you have a black doctor and a black lawyer and that wasn't the punchline of the show. in fact the punchline was softened their neighbors who were white. they were often the source of the humor actually. so in terms of the work that i do, i'm thinking i don't know that there's anything i've actually ever written that hasn't been political and some way. in fact, some of the most impactful political writing i've ever done with the work that the reader wouldn't call political. one example that i would give this i wrote a piece because i wrote a lot about the election as that your hendrix point out an gabbed a lot about it on airwaves. and what i often hear from viewers and readers for not this

is that they are things that i sometimes had in a way that came across this humorous or not about politics but they had was more effective because the people hearing it didn't realize that i was sending them a very direct political message. one example i would give would be it's been so long ago now, but we remember a time in the media couldn't get enough writing about it or safeties arm, right? it seemed everywhere we look there seemed to be no other political story as important as her arms. and so, it got to the point where it was the subject of a new year times op-ed about the first lady's arms, right? which seems hard to believe. but that is how much of iraqis which he worked at a state of the union and how well she wore it was at the time. and i wrote this piece for the site and a contributing editor

at luke 21.com and the columns are published in the front page of the "huffington post" every tuesday. i wrote this piece and it was amazing when it had on the "huffington post" that the reaction was because i wrote this piece about how we were sort of focusing and obsessing over her arms when the story was so much bigger than that for black women in terms of what she represents. and the fact that as a black woman, we don't have -- is but women we don't have the luxury of not being calculated about the image we present when we walk out the door. and so the point that i made with the piece is isaiah speaking as someone who like our first lady is tall, somewhat muscular built and a brown skin black woman, i don't have the luxury of wearing my hair a certain way all the time. i don't have the luxury of wearing certain clothes all the time because there were certain tv shows i will not get booked on if i do.

there's certain doors that will not be open to me to spread certain messages i do. and the point that i made with the first lady is a lot of the mainstream media, which is largely not diverse as treating this as the common shared was she showing off her arms are showing off because she is such a beautiful body. the point that i wanted them to think about is when you look like her and somewhat like i look, you can't worry pantsuit to every meeting because there's a lot of people you are scare, right? the way hillary clinton dressed and laura bush to address come our first lady can always stress that way. sometimes she has to wear the floral print cast with no sleeves if for no other reason than because it makes her look less intimidating when she talks about the really important issue that we need are out there talking about, right click and a sad but i actually side with if you think i'm exaggerating and you're reading this, i want you to pass for a second and ask

yourself how you would have if he walked into your office tomorrow never black woman you work with all of a sudden whispering to her natural. and i was the question i asked was the end of the peace. and the reaction was fascinating because that wasn't a political piece. it was filed on the life and style section, the beauty section. the comments were all, one of my closest friends is black and i never thought about this and i didn't raise this issue with her until you wrote this piece. so that sort of the way that politics plays a role in everything i write. >> well, first of all i'm very happy to be here and i want to say a good friend of mine and i appreciate his leadership. i appreciate his work, his privilege of studying during my time in seminary at both princeton theological seminary alumni brothers, so we were

looking for a wife from the same time, got married around the same time. i'm really happy to be here. i want to say that i really want to take my hat off to you literary types. i'm essentially a community pastor, community minister. that is what my career has been. but all of you literary types having just completed my first book with working on publishing, i will say that being a knock during rating and the publishing of books is probably the hardest thing that i've ever done except working with why people every day. [laughter] so i take my hat off to people that have been a part of this important tradition. i agree that the act of writing

in and of itself is of course political. but i would go back particularly in the american context that david walker's appeal of felicity these reports. there's so many different movements to go so far back. i think this is how does pop-culture fad the politics of black literature's and portends a now it's a black literature has always been affected by the politics, of the body politic of the african-american community. they may have been doing the subversive dad or the compliance dates gone by. but in every age, the politics of the community was reflected in the literature. but it also raises the important question of which comes first,

the chicken or the egg? are the writer's influencing culture? maybe not the writers, but certainly the actors, singers and rappers. or does the writer, the artist simply canonize what that individual has seen and become acquainted with in the community. that is a very, very interesting question. for me, i think you have to go to 125th street now that i'm in brooklyn. you have to go to fulton street and look at what books are on the tables in the african-american community to understand where we are on this continuum. what books are on the table on that hundred 25th fulton street in 1862 in the 1972.

i know what was there in 1882 and i know what is there in 2012. and for me, we have seen the evolution. we have seen a devolving of the mindset of african-american people and it seems to me wherever the literature was, that is where we were. among the literature is in a high and noble plays, they are rare and a pretty good place. but when the literature devolves and i can say that because i'm going to take the heat for it, but when it develops from high and important literary works that inspire, uplift and inform to the third of black pulp fiction for this sort of

inherently or urban myth that we sometimes see now, it can become problematic. so finally about to say that i hope the the body politic of the african-american community will always be infused and affected by the politics of literature. i just hope that the literature will never lose the responsibility and the focus of uplifting and directing and leading us to a brighter day. it seems to me that everything we do, at least this is what i've tried to live by. everything i try to do, i think it was cleaver that said you're

either part of the solution or part of the problem. so everything i've tried to do doesn't always work that way. but it's to try to lift rather than try to stagnate or mr. right because i think that is extremely important, particularly when we talk about the pop-culture today and how had i suspect that our community. >> you're raising some provocative points here. one thing i want to make clear. talking about all modes of coastal expressions -- bicoastal expression. were talking about literature. we will stick to -- the purpose of the panel is to discuss literature. her brother conrad county made a couple interesting points. he raised the question -- what to questions that i'm going to pose one to you minuets and things to race through the first

list is the that the writer influenced popular culture or does the writer reflect what is going on in popular culture? there are all kinds of theories they respond to that. but first, you made a point and more like a charge of that literature -- black literature has evolved. and you mentioned urban league. would you just expand on that a little bit and then let the others thoughts on not question. i mean, walk down fulton street or 125th street in the 1980s and even the 90s and there are books on tables everywhere and you hunt quality historical books. you had even the fiction does have a very afrocentric and a very cultural centric quality. there are a lot of books that

were out of circulation. some of the very important contributors to the literary canon. i did a survey and just what does 121st street that were years ago and it became apparent to me that a lot of the writings that were fair -- and this is true i'm sure of every major city in the country. a lot of the country's historical and social and political books that were on the steeple of years ago are no longer there. and you see a preponderance of urban literature, bought pulp fiction. and you know, i'm sure that literature has its place. but on fulton street, 125th street, these fairways were always weathervanes of a certain

level of consciousness and awareness and to see what's being sold on this very tables now is disheartening to me from where i stand. >> i'm sorry -- did i interrupt? i'm going to completely agree and then completely disagree with everything you just said. here is what i mean by that. i would agree that some of our artistic culture has devolved but that is because american artistic culture has dissolved because 20 years ago, kim kardashian would not be worth $60 million. that is the culture we live in today. [applause] is so you're right, but it's not a problem specific to a community. i think an argument could be made that perhaps it's more detrimental to our community because it meant so much more to us and made so much more of an

impact previously, whereas one kim kardashian may not take down all armenian-american culture whatever or white american culture, one significant superadded or whoever having literary success can have a bigger dutcher meant to our culture. but this is the circular edging you're talking about because ultimately the responsibility will come back to last. i amen and second on a motion with which you are saying about writing books being one of the hardest things deliberative. it's certainly one of the hardest things i've ever done and what does it come on the fox news channel before and dealing with publishers can be tough fair. but that doesn't change the fact that the reason that was on was because our community watches it. the reason those folks are being sold is because someone in our

committee is buying it. it's not white suburban moms buying those books. there were some publishers are going to spend our money promoting books than promoting my book, which didn't have any of that, you're falling in love with the drug dealer, everyone is educated in different forms and fashions and i wanted to write something i thought my community could be proud of. they are hesitant to invest money promoting books because the perception based on the numbers is that we are willing to invest more in books that are not like that. so that is why agree with everything you're saying. but it is part of a broader problem, not specific to our community and culture in general. >> let me jump in this because i think this is a very important question because it's contextual. it has to do with how we are living in where we live. paul rovers fans probably argue that the greatest intellectual produced out of african american

life, actor, writer, scholar, linguist ecocide, do just about anything. i would guarantee you that no child is going to represent elementary school has a clue to who is who he is. that is our fault. there's people in this room, including a senate panel. we know who he is in it for children don't, that is our fault. i grew up at a time when lifting their voices in single piece some point lace and every black person to stand up because i was sorry and done. >> they would just sing the first verse. >> that is what i'm saying. >> that response was because we knew that had gotten us through

troubled waters. we are essentially lie straight now. where last because the cultural markers that sustain us are being rapidly discarded because we are waiting on validation for the very people who have been validated as the beginning. so when we talk about successes of the artists at the writer, when measuring the success by whether a major publisher publishes band and we sell a million books. you understand what i'm saying? we measure success of the new station at a painter, of a writer, an artist based upon their success by the very people who are destroying our community. so for instance, when i made the point about when the corporations got into hip-hop, it's an economic social conditioning. it didn't begin to weigh feared off. but when record companies started promoting hip-hop as

opposed to the independent hip-hop artists, it took a terrible turn in a flooded our communities with one aspect of this hip-hop that devalued at women in black families and black men have despite the bravado. so we cannot seek validation as writers, as artists, as the people from those institutions and people who are and have historically devalued us. if we write up here, our expert patient has to be where the audience, whether it's published a major publisher or not. he's right more than 40 books and i would guarantee you if he came in here right now and is back with the same photocopied poems he would be selling to you for 50 cents. you understand what i'm saying? one of our greatest writers in history and he still understands

that his audience is the person who can't afford to buy his book, but he wants you to have this poem so he will go to kinko's or wherever you go and run up some copies and sell it to you because that is more important. that is more important. so we have to love ourselves enough to support the people who are speaking our voice for us. there's trim his brother conrad said for all of us. but there's only some of it that's the real meal. the rest of it is this not. [applause] >> i would like just to bring the discussion back to literature for a moment to answer the question about the evolution. it occurs to me that though i agree with what has been said already that another complication is not so much at

the evolution as it is from the last couple of decades, a rise of more variety particularly with popular literature we didn't see all that much if it said before the 1980s in particular. so in one way we have a greater range of literature is common types of literature's to choose from. i was just teasing a little while ago with a friend of mine about the community around christian romances, which is a very -- i don't know if it's true of new york city, but it certainly is a very, very strong community in atlanta. and that is yet another kind of literature that we are seeing now produced by african-american people. so i don't particularly care for

literature. that is that while the 10 and demeaning, but on the other hand i think that what we are seeing is not so much antievolutionist just another kind of literature. .. >> and was very much political and it was popular as well.

we have seen -- looks like we have seen an equation for change and one wonders as we see the moral consolation change or accepted ethically and morally, i am wondering if the literature that has been the pride here or mention double -- the cried in pulp fiction. a la wonder if that reflects what is going on or is it on the leading edge or -- above what is going on. >> i want to touch on the point you made. of course we live in a very course society.

with the rise of reality, that is the tip of the iceberg. kim kardashian. the difference, i have always said, quote, mainstream culture, larger society, african-american community, is the balance that exists and the range that exists in those communities, i work with a lot of young people in new york. the reality is if as when i was growing up, you read malcolm, dr. king, we read a little ice berg too. but that was a balance. the cultural norm was the stuff you just peaked at and tried to get a hold of.

what i am concerned about is it also speaks to standards in a community because of any error of african-american life, people who are visionary and forward thinking and have a certain integrity that says the product i produce is going to up lift my people, i am quite sure people have always lived with that. in the past even in terms of rap music which you mentioned earlier, some of the artists were putting in writing the most degrading things there were always people who said i am not going to do that. our integrity it seems to me as people, as writers, contributors, always something that we control.

a long time ago, to earlier in the panel. you can always be commercially viable or commercially successful but you can always put out a quality product and it seems to me that quality products sometimes take years for people -- i respect people to make that decision. [applause] >> to answer your fundamental question, whether or not riders are here to reflect culture or to influence at, the best writers do both. that is emphasis on the best writers. i would not call myself the best writer but the best writers do that and those who aspire to do the best work for i to do that

on a regular basis. one example is my recent book, it is a novel legal policy influences everything i do. it is called the d.c. candidate and follows what happens to a group of friends when one of them is running for president. the reason wanted to do the book is my agent and i were a surprise -- i had to do another book. that is the reality of writing and doing my job. i had a couple ideas in mind. one thing that stayed with me as someone who worked on campaigns in the past that had plenty of friends who were officials and worked on campaigns, how much in the day and age of twitter, camera phones how much your life changes if someone you like runs for office. think of the gossip stories we heard about friends and family members of mitt romney or whoever.

really the first presidential election where it was publicly announced that there were certain people who didn't run because a family member asked them not to. because they didn't want certain dirty laundry under a microscope. that will be happening more and more because of the age we live in where you can go anywhere without a camera being on you. i will say something and hobart don't get in trouble. if people put their phones on vibrate or not answer when we are speaking that would be great. [applause] >> sorry. one of the things i wanted to do in the book, i found it fascinating that last election we talked about this on previous panels, many of us felt the biggest challenge would be to elect a black president. who knew that the biggest challenge beyond that would be for our country to grapple with

the idea of voting for someone they perceive to possibly not be christian? in other words the irony is a black man will never be elected in my lifetime and then oh, for some people voting for a black bag was not a problem but he might be a muslim. can't do that or some people said. for the novel i decided to make a character who is running for office someone who is black but was raised for a variety of reasons jewish. there were people who reacted in reviews the same way you did. with laughter. this would never happen. is so ridiculous. the reason i am raising this is someone reflected what already happened but i also wanted to put something out there which is a conversation about the last bastion of the president when it comes to our profits. if you do a poll and ask people would you be willing to vote for

someone -- even if they're lying everyone would say absolutely. i am not prejudiced. i would vote for someone of a different race. but different religion and people go wait a minute, i can't see them do that. people in my own family said clearly they will not -- forget who it was, mitt romney may believe in god but doesn't believe in the right one. that is a quote from a sir relative of mine of a certain generation. my point being mobile was reflecting the turmoil over race and religion and from presidency and because it reflected something that specifically happened people said that is completely ridiculous. this would never happen. why would you write a book that is based on this? is fascinating because this is what the question is. because something hasn't happened was perceived as an

acceptable. >> three perspective is. really great question. i am thinking through, won as an educator. i teach at a two year college in atlanta and always the thirteenth grade because trinity college, the first year is the thirteenth grade. what i get is students who don't like to read. face a proudly they don't read and they don't want to read in my english class. when we do start reading and they have to read literature, i find they don't know how to read. they are literate, they can read words but they don't know how to engage in text or think about what they are reading. they don't know how to

articulate what they feel. they still have this really difficult time accepting and trusting the tech their reading and how they react to it. i am concerned with how we educate students, how we educate young people and literature is losing its role in education. and literary analysis. then i look at this from a parent's perspective. i am a mother of a 13-year-old and the 12-year-old and the 10-year-old. [applause] he is the father of our children. so our children read. they have these parents and they read.

guess what they want to read? we have our 13-year-old last summer had to read the biography of mao x -- malcolm x. he read a third of it and put it down. he read through the entire series of rick riordan, the last olympian. >> what was that? >> rick riordan. he was a famous and popular young adult novelist. what is the name of the book that was made into a movie? the lightning -- i should know this. he read that entire series. voraciously reading. he reads anything that is mythological. clash of the titans and that whole thing. get back to malcolm x. i like it. it is good. it is good. where are you?

you have been reading this book for four months. literally. i think i am at the point that he is in detroit. it is funny because we know how far that is that he doesn't know we know how far that is. that is an issue. how you get him to want to read the books that he needs to read? that i say as i said to educators, k-12 educator's about literacy and the importance of literacy, reading skills are the number one indicator how successful or unsuccessful a student will be. that is amazing. reading skills and the third grade or fourth grade gap. he or she is sure to be unsuccessful as a progressive school. these features, this is the

parent in me and educator in me i tell these features it doesn't matter what they read. if they're reading you should be happy. we get to the urban literature question. on one side i am saying surely we can find some better reading. on the other hand i am saying if they're picking up a book and reading that, hallelujah. don't get upset if it is a graphic novel or an urban myth romance book that they can read in a day. the fact that they want to read it and finish it means there's some engagement with text and then you have -- it could be libido but they are reading. the point is you want them to read. you guide them toward texts they may not be familiar with. >> there is a question of value in some of these books. we want our boy to know we are

reading. and it really did -- it did influence our attitude toward girls at school. i am wondering if the literature place a less benign role or more value laden role. >> i am not finished. maybe that will get to your question. the third perspective is as a writer. i am a poet first but i also write young adult fiction and poetry. i have a manuscript based on teenagers who get separated during the katrina evacuation. it is a novel in verse with is that particular subgenre in the young adult category and i try to get this manuscript published and i get good feedback from

publishers and agents. wonderful and beautiful. the query letters great. send me the manuscript and the first few chapters but i can never sell it. of friend of mine was very frustrated. i am hopeful. a friend of mine said you know what your problem is? you need to make it more urban let. they are teenagers. they are black. they are in atlanta. they get separated when they get to atlanta. make it urban lift. it will sell. you are right. it will sell. there's the question. as a writer i respect other writers. i don't want us to categorize all urban list as terrible literature. that of the mistake. is part of our can and what you like it or not. >> we will get ready.

move into the q&a. a couple questions. cards are being passed around with questions. give it to the people that are collecting them. >> quick response to that. i have four teenagers and i agree. getting them to read very important books that i've read is like pulling teeth. one of the things my publisher decided is one of the reasons is the publisher felt now:-- malcolm x's book is inaccessible to generation that grew up in an integrated society. it is a contemporary asian of that story.

i struggle with the same question. what concerns me and i challenge my own children is we live in a fully integrated society in many ways. our children have completely different experiences from many of us and it would appear to be delayed black first family in the white house, president, even though white suburban teenagers are buying black list they sure bought a lot of rap records. it would appear that we moved to a different era. the problem in children not reading this important literature is when you look at all the categories that deal with half ology in our community nothing has changed. indeed things are worse and they have an attitude that they are fully accepted in a society and fully integrated in society and

yet black men are still dominating the population in prison. black children, male and female are dropping out at phenomenal rates. that is what concerns me about this question. reading harry potter would be a good thing i guess, but they need to read this important stuff quote we need to be producing new versions of it that take into account some of the changes in society. >> i will raise a question pointing to the mike. this can fold in. one question. please define the term literature. the stories are not literature and the terms story and literature are being used interchangeably. define the term literature. these stories are not literature. stories and literature are used

interchangeably. >> interesting question. it goes against the sides what it is. many of the things we right are considered not to the literature. who validates it? the book that sonya sanchez and i edited was published by fair where press and we did the book because we wanted to capture the interior life of the african-american community during the campaign election and the inauguration of president obama. this is the only book, talk about choices, that has poetry, journalism from black writers from sonya sanchez to a whole bunch -- a lot of people.

we knew we would have a hard time getting people to publish this. publish this anthology so we went to an independent black press. is it literature? talking about it -- why she wanted to work with the obama campaign. is that literature? we have to define what it is. a lot of young people read graphic novels now. is that literature? that discussion is typically an academic discussion and it is a discussion in the publishing industry about what is literary and what is popular. if we succumb to the discussion on the same terms most of our riders are left out.

most of our riders do not get in that conversation. is that literature? it certainly is popular. it certainly resonates particularly with a generation that is reading her works. very important. but we have to make the decision about what is. the general context is the written word that does tell our story. we can have another discussion about form and content. a lot of people are writing who are publishing books. that is the technological question, doing it on the computer and formatting it and go to a printer. i had a young man send me a manuscript. didn't even know him. somebody referred him to me. would you read my book? not really. most people who do that one

phrase. not critique. we had a conversation. i said what do you read? he said i never read a book. this is a true story. i read what i had to read out of books when i was in school but i never read a whole book. i said what makes you think you can write a book? i just know i can. i gave him a book list. about 100 books. what books you talking about? after you read these books i will consider reading your book. i never heard from him again. >> that is the question you are pointing at. it has to do with kraft. part of what is being decried in urban literature is lack of

standards and sometimes not because they can't think of other words to use. it is the question of bad as well. >> i love what you said because this is not only questions specific to our economy but they did a study of authors at the new york times review. does anyone want to guess what the overall majority look like? they are white males. right? a bit of a fury because especially institutions that like to think they are progressive and get out of shape when people point out what they're lacking on their home turf or pointing other people's problems with open mindedness and acceptance, the reaction was we are publishing the best authors which goes to what you said. what makes someone the best

author? the reason this conversation is specific to us is a lot of you heard the term checklist which is for those who don't know some of the men who are going on? a term that was created for the genre of books who were written by women authors about women. the term became a pejorative. she is a check what author which means not a real literary author. the point of the study of the new york times revealed is when you looked at what the books were about, the great literary male authors were worthy of being literature and worthy of a review in the new york times. their stories were not that different but the women were not being reviewed because they were dismissed as a checklit books which were about women and their lives, marriage and families and children. when the book is reversed and

the protagonist is written by a white male is literature. you are completely right that we can't keep allowing other people to define the standards for us. last thing i want to say is when you were talking about reading among young people, varies a study that has stood for decades that bears repeating, governors still used to this day which is the way they determine how many prisons they're going to build a base on third grade reading. so that just speaks to the importance of literacy and readership among young people. the last 5 i want to say on this because i do agree with what you are saying about being dismissive, the way they are, of all other forms of writing that is not kelley moore send. there is a happy medium between

pd fs and basketball wives and in terms of what we read as well. i want to give a shout out to my mom because i have the world's greatest mom and i credit her with the reason i became a writer even though that is not what i would grow up to do. a mother that is in english honors classes in high school and there would not finish a charles dickens book because i didn't want to. i wasn't interested in finishing it. my mother took the position that as long as i kept my grades up, i had to determine what i was interested in. as long as i was reading and gave intelligent intellectually base reason i was not interested in a particular work that was acceptable. i realized that type of reasoning shapes the work i do today. the key as you were saying is not simply saying they are reading something and is not the autobiography of malcolm x.

it is not to standards but making sure we are not reading something that the values do we are or who our people are and what we stand for is people. a [applause] >> i would second that by saying it is important that schools read. i think there are good books for children including harry potter among them that these books are gateways to more complicated reading and at some point people usually going to read the complicated politically sensitive books you want them to read or they are not. but at least when they are children it is wonderful we encourage them to read something. however, i will say there has to be some standards. i would encourage my child to look at movies bigger still i will not encourage them to look at pornography.

there are places you draw the line. >> let's get to another question. a great response. so relieved by what you are saying. do you think only positive aspects of black culture should be written about? >> let me say i never think-i don't just preach biblical narratives or historical stories. it is never a question. i always say this. people say are you caught up in people using profanity? i say no. the panthers use profanity. many of their speeches were profanity laced. it is not what words you are using. it is the aim, focus of your message.

when people ask that question i always say this. as teachers, as elders, as human beings who want to foster a better society, when people ask that question i always want to know why they asked. if you mean do we have to be pretentious or unrealistic about life in terms of showing the diversity of life, i would say absolutely not but i never have figured out and i still ask the question and i would be interested in anyone who is present here's answer and i know a lot of people's stock and trade is negativity and the grading the human spirit. i never figured out why that would be attractive as a motivation for doing anything. ..

there are many of them who will admit that today, but in fact even the local black newspaper would print his name for a . . reflection on the civil rights movement, the movement of her main man is that it is very ambiguously. it's not a great fit jury heard in some ways you can hold it up as a victory, but for ordinary

but people, it was not. you can go to birmingham to date and go to kelley ingram park and you can fit down and talk to the many homeless veterans who hang out there. i don't know if you consider that the magnitude. >> allegedly sacked as i don't want to be misunderstood. the movies one important point. i don't want to be misunderstood. expressing important truth is one thing. i'm just talking about people who chose channel all of the negative and the tree all of many experiences they've never actually had that in many ways to create the human spirit. so now, i don't want to say it all that we should never lie or be deceitful. but it speaks to something all too often in black art in

general and bad days and challenge wrappers. i've challenged movie producers. the simplicity -- the simplicity of the character development. in other words, if you watch the god author and the corleone family can be presented as criminals involved in a criminal enterprise but one sends out the dark knight and the mother is very governing figures of familial atmosphere and the grandfather is a murderer, but you get a complex picture of people. but all too often in black art, you get a very simplistic view of human nature. i'm a dog. i'm a killer and attaches the shows the way it is. >> and that's the point. >> as a person with prep school that i met the would never call

them that they did the work, but every other word on the album is. >> were going to end on this question you cannot put your points and antennas we haven't spent as much time as the affirming roe, the positive role, the leading role of african -- black writing, agreed statement on what that can be. respond as you see fit. >> to me is the same question we were just discussion because writers will is to illuminate our humanity. what happens to oppress people is that your humanity has denied you. and that is all of our humanity with all of our flaws, all of our glory, the therese, defeats this part of our role because it teaches us who we are.

but it also cultures the context. allman stories that are the same. they are born, fall in love, have babies, struggle to survive. try and buy a house. our stories are essentially the same. the difference is just context. the israeli woman writing about her relationship in israel and the palestinian movement writing about her relationship in palestine of the similarities but cultural things that are different. a congolese women and women and can delay in women, white american women in black american women will have elements because they will have stories. what happens with that in brother conrad is making a very important point is that the greater society cultural commercial institution choose to depict guys in a way that continues to deny our full humanity, which is why the cosby

show was a revolutionary show, a different world which is 25 years ago this year. nothing before or since has been made about black college student life on the campus. number two show for six years. so it's commercial value is proven. but still an alliance of of those who make the cultural decisions and major cultural and dictation is not a sellable idea to depict black people in the complicated humanity. >> what about overtly political? i mean, somebody because there is political writing. w. e. b. dubois was overtly political. >> is also a novelist and a poet. we can go through a whole gamut of people, but everything has to be weak in terms of its context. right in at the beginning of the century is very different. >> but we're talking about --

>> we're talking about and that's why he made the statement that the act of writing itself is political. the politics you choose is for the choice comes in. if you choose to say something eliminating an uplifting, but the political choice. if you choose to go another route and sam go denigrate black people because that is that people are buying, that's a political choice. we need to have a greater discourse about those choices and stop giving people a pass under the guidance that they're making money. drug dealers make money. so we need to have a discourse in our community about what we should accept from people. it doesn't matter who else makes a choice. but a major corporation soso put out a movie denigrating black women, if we simply are not going to see it, but that's a discourse we need to have you ever thought you stop having just passed because people because they're making money. that's not the criteria.

>> that's exactly what i was asking. >> may have to finish up a brief response. >> if i'm happy to be here to think dr. green because just for me, when i read the autobiography of malcolm x, overtly political, when i read read -- not talking about watching the tv show, but when i read ruth, all of these and many come and many others, club brown overtly political literature he changed my life, changed my world. >> any other response is quick >> i think as a teacher and a writer who think the most political act like a new is by trying to write historically and emotionally factual stories and

i think that that also encourages and i'm really concerned about young lack graders from a young male writers because i don't see them in our creative writing programs. but it encourages them to write and that's part of what i have to do. >> to answer your fundamental question about ways in which it's affirming in a brief response. i went sky diving and that's where you jump out of an airplane because you don't have any sense for a day. the reason i brought that up is because the guy that i jumped with, métis and then diverge to make sure i didn't hurt myself sad the number who had the most skydivers ever in one year lease the year point break were a bunch of people jumped. i bring that up as an example because writing on its best can

inspire our kids to jump towards their dreams in the same way that seeing a movie about skydiving inspired other people to jump by literally. literature and the political format at its best can inspire us to pursue things we never thought about whether it's going to medical school or becoming a talk here. the last thing as anyone at this panel that in this day and age, and media has changed so much in the book industry is you can no longer distinguish them. they ran as a blogger and because my blogging is overtly political that i write about trade on margin and racial profiling which i wrote about long before this tragedy happened or if you can't distinguish them all. they'll work together these days in terms of time and politically overtly political story.

>> i really wanted to do that, but it is -- did she have a closing? be not only that in terms of affirming -- i just think that the writers role and responsibility is to tell the truth and sometimes the truth is ugly and messy and a comfortable but we still have to tell the truth. >> thank you coming thank you. this has been a great panel and you will have really -- [applause] william jelani cobb, trent five, anthony grooms and michael simanga you a free some important points. and we have to deal with a literary genre. the first thing i published action and nonfiction and trade in academic. all political. we have to try to reach people in all kinds of ways.

look at the "huffington post" and on blogs they must do that. i think it's so important for us to be clear on what the political means and our political responsibility is. and i think we've laid that out very well and from various dimensions. we are looking forward to honoring the honorees tonight and ishmael reid, nikki giovanni and we have within us one of our honorees,.or howard the duck we want to recognize. [applause] a former 25 year chief of the schaumburg center, extremely, extremely important member. and we'd like to thank everybody for your time and your question and send attention today. are there any announcements as we close?

yes, all the panelists books are in the bookstore. they are some fine, fine books. and they'll be signing them. more importantly, which means back on the tenuous or not they'll be worth even more than they are worth today. bookstores and ripped hanaway. anything else, dr. green? 6:00 p.m. is the award ceremony across the street. am i right clicked the award ceremonies rapier 6:00 p.m. so i went to the state for that. escalate to be a really touching and wonderful event. thank you colic and to the panelists and the