my second interview with him, in which he told me the full story of what happened from his perspective. >> so he wanted to set the record straight about what actually happened? in one sense, he never got to tell his story at the time this case is coming along. >> i take it he also was proud of the case and what it had accomplished? >> yes. both men were proud of the case. they felt they had done some good for other people that would be part of their own legacy. they thought was important that the state never be able to come and in and arrest two people, either for actually having sex or just claiming that they had sex, and making that the basis for an arrest. that was important to them. >> will thank you dale

carpenter, it was nice to talk with you. thank you very much for coming with your good book. .. .. .. .. >> as part of our college series. this month we visit liberty university in lynchburg, virginia. ken klukowski, a liberty university fellow, lawyer and

contribute to the "washington examiner" sat down with booktv to talk about his book, "resurgent." he is the co-author with ken blackwell. this is about 15 minutes. >> "resurgent" is the name of the book, and ken klukowski is the co-author along with ken blackwell. mr. klukowski georges here at liberty university on book tv on c-span2. mr. klukowski, what do you mean when you say constitutional conservative, conservatism and what are some of the keys to constitutional conservatism? >> constitutional conservatism is the form of government given to us by our founding fathers. it was unique and unprecedented when they did in the late 1700s. it has over two centuries and change made america the most successful, most wealthy, most

prosperous, most powerful and most free nation in all the history of the world history. the history of humanity, worldwide. what we do in "resurgent" is we look at what it is that makes the american constitutional system different from what we can find anywhere else on the planet. both the tenfold promise that we get into of the declaration of independence, which was our founding charter, and then the constitution of the united states with this amendments which are the supreme law of the land, and from those 10 principles we draw out eight teaser rates our society dealing with economic issues, social issues, security issues, defense and national security, and also philosophical issues about the role of the individual, the role of the family, and the role of government do, ask the founders saw, to try to create as much as

possible with imperfect human beings, to create the optimal system of government that maximizes happiness and freedom and prosperity for us all. >> what are some of those eight keys? >> the issue, economically, is first of all that in order to be sovereign, sovereign in our own lives, means not living by the means of others, it is able to own. we came from a system where under the bridge system the crown had ultimate title ii all land. everyone from the peasantry nobleman ultimately lived by the crown and in later years of the parliament. now, of course, the system has caught up to us in a number of regards but that's what was in terms of the founders conception. so it was an issue of ownership. you need to build you own your own home. you need to be up to own your own land, your own education, your own retirement.

the things that are extensional -- essential on a day-to-day basis and also long-term, a place to live, to shelter them and to prepare for your later years, that's something that you need to be able to have some measure of control over. also it's an issue of jobs, and jobs not on the individual level, and this also comes in with regulation and taxation because the issue is being able to take in and accumulate wealth, and, of course, in a keenly well there's two parts of the. one is income, and the other is reducing the out fund of cash to taxes through regulation, group living. so the issue is focusing on the family as the basic unit of the economy, rather than individuals, within and married a dog being essentially a family of one. and so we look at the tax system, we propose a family-based flat tax. we talk about not just personal

finance, but governmental finance, a balanced budget to the u.s. constitution which we deal with in detail later on in "resurgent," please enter those sovereignties. so economically in terms of being able to accumulate wealth, in being able to pass that onto the next generation. >> why do you say that our democratic republic is hanging by a thread? >> what we have seen, abuses over the past few years that are absolutely unprecedented. the reality is, it is the nature of government, and the founders understood this. this is why our system was designed. it is the nature of government to expand. because it is human nature to try to increase control. when you give any group of human beings power over other human beings, just naturally over time either deliberately or just not self checking, that power tends to grow and expand. over the past three years, however, we have seen challenges of the nature that we have never

seen before, just in previous weeks we have seen an unprecedented mandate being put on people of faith and institutions of faith having to carry healthcare services for things that are fundamentally incompatible with their religious beliefs. we've also seen in recent months the president exercising as president, exercise what he calls his recess appointment power which is in the constitution so that for senate confirmed position, it is in is out, remember that was written anytime for over half a year congress was not in session, then he president would be able to fill these positions, urgent needs, immediate needs for which, that would normally require senate confirmation. here we have a case with the senate was not even in recess, most of them are out for a few days but they're still holding daily sessions but he said i am declaring that in recess. and the point, some of nominations which are surely not

cost effective had just been made a matter of days before and not even gone through the normal vetting process. whether it is that or the sars or the big legislative issues that we've all heard about, whether it is an $800 billion stem this plan, whether it is running deficits over a trillion dollars, all of these are fundamentally unsustainable, or in terms of a prominent public policy, like obamacare, for the first time in american history imposing a mandate upon each american citizen in terms of something that they must do, that they must go out and buy with their own money. during the last massive are one of the last massive expansion of governmental power in the 1930s, fdr looked at something that involved an individual mandate, and his legal counsel advised me to do that because of the unconstitutional. they were right then, and fdr took more of a restrained course.

this president as we discussed in "resurgent," this president and many politicians of his current age are running roughshod over limits that the constitution places on their power with the idea that the constitution by restraining governmental power, you're giving people time to breathe and you're giving the people space to live come to live their own lives, to make their own decisions. and we have never seen in our history a government power being asserted to the likes that it has been over the past few years. that's what we say that our constitutional system is kind of hanging by a thread. >> have republicans been better in your view than democrats? >> many republicans have been better than most democrats on it, but one of the chapters we have in the book, and this is something that did not make a spread in some circles, there are a lot of people like to see republicans good, democrats bad, a straight partisan take. we have of course a chapter where we say that half the time

republicans, many republicans have been, especially many of establishment republicans have been part of the problem rather than part of the solution. this is not a ship one party versus another. this is an issue of the philosophy of constitutional conservatism, adhering to the principles and requirements of the u.s. constitution. we believe the republican party can be a vehicle for the and we think they are champions of constitutional conservatism within the republican party, but the republican party itself is not the answer. it can just be a vehicle to help deliver that solution, if and only if we elect the right people spent and, in fact, ken klukowski you write in "resurgent," george w. bush was called a conservative, though as we've already seen, the former president was not. many people may be conservative in several specific areas, but shouldn't be called conservatives. >> president bush, we, of

course, have respect for much of what president bush did. and many of what he did were deemed concerted. and many of his actions, many disappointments also were conservative. but certainly whether it's no child left behind, whether it is medicare part d, the prescription benefit plan, these are massive expansions of either a federal control, over federal funding. and those are not in and of themselves conservative. at the same time president bush did speak about the need to foster an ownership society. spoke about the need for people to be able to have control through individualized accounts, increasing control of social security, medicare. so that they can manage their own retirement, manage their own health care. all of those are conservative ideas. >> how does the gun debate figure in or the gun issue figure into "resurgent"? >> we have a whole chapter on the second amendment to my

co-author is on the board of directors of the national rifle association and i'm a former employee and contractor for the nra as well, also so my legal scholarly works on the second amendment. we have seen an emergence of a jurisprudence on the second amendment in the past few years. there has been a debate going on for decades that the u.s. supreme court just started to resolve in district of colombia versus held in 2008 and mcdonald v. chicago in 2010. now there are literally hundreds of losses in the lower federal courts we'll see the area really develop even at the supreme court level. over the next quarter century. the purpose for the second amendment to the u.s. constitution is to enable people to protect themselves against both private and public violence but it is fundamentally a right of self-defense. both for people individually against criminal elements in society, and as the use of cream court wrote in the heller case, that they also at the time, they

moved into the bill of rights is because they were concerned. and i hope we never see that in our lifetimes, or ever for that matter. they were concerned about the possibility of someday a dictatorial regime in the united states go and that's why they started the fifth amendment to say a while regulating, well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state your so why do people keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. >> what are the takeaways? what kind of actions are you recommending that people take? >> a couple things. the purpose of the book is to make the reader a citizen activist, both to enable them to be an informed voter on election day, to understand the issues, to understand what's at stake. not just the issues of the day, talking about jobs, talking about oil exploration, talking about our kids education. all of that is important, but also the longer-term.

the founding fathers gave us a charter for a perpetual union, for ongoing freedom. and so the issue there is to make people a citizen activist to understand what the issues are, both short-term and long-term to understand how it is that we became such an extraordinarily prosperous and free nation, and what we have to carefully guard. if you want to pass that prosperity and freedom on to our children. both to be an informed voter on election day but not just that, to be a citizen activist in every penny of our life in terms of how we live our lives, and the ideas that we share with others. >> where did you grow up? >> i was born and raised in indiana. my wife and i both work graduates from university of notre dame from undergrad. were there for a few years in the southwest, and then back in the midwest, and after law school and med school and residency at all but, we work in the washington, d.c. area raising our three wonderful

blessings. >> who is the doctor, you or your wife's? >> my wife is the doctor. she's an emergency room physician and a constitutional lawyer. >> what is your role here at liberty university speakers on my faculty here at liberty. both here and nationwide. i do debate and am also on the research side of faculty. doing research on constitutional issues and really enjoying having the opportunity to both inform debate in ongoing litigation. for example, i have a brief at the supreme court and the obamacare litigation. but also the importance of teaching, of teaching the right form of constitutional conservatism legally speeding, which is a school of thought called originalism to the next generation of lawyers, making sure that new lawyers understand this is a rise in school thought that the u.s. supreme court, that, that because it is we the people who adopted u.s. constitution, it is therefore outside the purview of judges to

just redefine its worst to suit whatever their needs are, that instead judges are bound to interpret the terms of the constitution according to its original meaning, that the people understood when they ratified it. >> what is the american civil liberties union? >> the american civil rights union. a lot of people know what the aclu is. the ac our youth is a conservative counterweight to the aclu. you mentioned the second minute. the aclu despite the fact that this provision in the bill of rights, the aclu did not take a position on whether it was the right that private citizens enjoy it all. the acru was actively involved in the heller case, in the mcdonald case, filing briefs to show that from the standpoint of original meaning, that the fifth amendment is the right of law-abiding and peaceful citizens to keep and bear firearms for the protection. >> when was it formed, the acru?

>> the acru was formed about a decade and a half ago by bob carlson from the reagan administration. and with the policy board comprised of a number of heavyweights from the reagan administration like former u.s. attorney general ed meese. >> now, you have code written two books with ken blackwell, former secretary of state, do you have a third book? do you have another one were to write a? >> we are talking about the idea. there are a number of offers that have been made and we're weighing our options right now. >> ken klukowski is the co-author of "resurgent: how constitutional conservatism can save america." it's published by threshold. this is booktv on c-span2 at liberty university, lynchburg, virginia. >> is there a nonfiction author or book you would like to see featured on booktv? send us an e-mail at booktv@c-span.org. or tweet us at twitter.com/booktv.

>> is a look at some books that are being published this week.

>> up next on liberty university, history professor david snead who would a biography of president john f. kennedy. this interview is just under 10 minutes.