>> i don't know. it's a very interesting question, what would he think of us now, you know, what would he think of, you know, if he had to fly through an airport and go through tsa? [laughter] you know? it's sad. so i don't know what his vision -- but he certainly had a great vision of a free democratic society, and to avoid -- and he also says explicitly or clary says how quickly this can change, that the good guys can become the bad guys, and the bad guys can become the good guys. so he, yeah, he definitely, he loved america, and he wanted to keep america strong but also fair. ..

he was not a member. he was at mit. we kind of play of these conflicts. they worked closely on a number of things. area. to the hydrogen bomb. there were a lot of very said splits between people. it broke up friendships and so on. they also differed greatly on whether predictions. whoever believed we could long-range predict the weather and that that was not the

terminus stick. so -- they didn't really argue but they didn't disagree. >> there are a couple questions from wesley park earlier today because we asked to send questions in. one is about the first draft of the report which was said to contain some of turing's own ideas but put forward by someone else. if that was so, was in that report given turing's description of what you talk about was not published until almost a year later? >> that gets very complicated because turing's report -- the report was definitely based on the report. i do agree the ideas are based

on turing's ideas. he knew turing's work better. i don't think -- this is my opinion but i don't think they were as up to speed on turing as von neumann was. i would like to leave it that they all had great ideas and were cooperating at the time. we don't realize how much cross fertilization there was. laboratories working together. >> is that zone of history we will never know about? >> if we go into it open-minded, radar was such a collaboration between american and british. neither side would have done it on their own but they got it done. >> another question, in has been said perhaps unkindly that

turing's best contribution to the development was to leave the national physical laboratory altogether and let the team get on with it. was turing any more of a team player in the u.s.? was he not ultimately much of a team player. >> he joined the rugby team. in some ways he was a team player. he was a long-distance runner which is a loan thing rather than a team thing. he had a reputation as being a loner. difficult to deal with. there was a fantastic memo where he asks poor people who are

handling him have to ask, he watched the forecast time and the expression is i can play tennis in the morning if i feel like it. rather than feeling like he has to go to work in the morning. it is a difficult thing to keep some discipline. >> these questions are from kevin girl who is instrumental there. at the national museum of computing. can it really be said his best contribution was just to leave and let them get on with their work? >> i am not the expert on this. i haven't done this looking at archives. i think turing made great contributions. >> maybe kevin is looking for validation. he may have given that to him.

was there and other intellectual passion of von neumann besides the in stage of the curious mind he had? and what would it be? >> he was passionate about history particularly the byzantine empire. he had tremendous wide range of issues. alcohol, women. almost interested in everything. he was fascinated by landmarks that had strange names. he insisted in going to places like double's post piled or we had this tradition that you have got to drive 40 miles and he always went. he was superstitious.

he would never turn the lights which john. >> how did that come to life? >> i don't know but it is probably true. >> if he got a question in his mind -- he could be very temperamental until he worked it out. >> people giving him insoluble problems to watch him. [laughter] >> someone else said no one else could be as physically in different when he was listening to a lecture in which he had zero interest in. >> he had no time for small talk but he was very diplomatic.

it was great how to negotiate -- that is the reason -- he got people like bigelow and builds seen who disagreed on everything and got them to work together. we need people like that. when you get a lot of credit for things you suddenly get all the credit. that is true from that front. >> which he didn't seek and any time that occurred he seemed to be good about fishing that way. >> he got his share of credit. >> but his ego didn't require that continual feeding. >> maybe but he could see it

himself. >> we are going to do a reading. we would like to have our authors read because somehow there is so much powerful when it comes across in your own voice a new practical passages that you are going to read so i want to close this giving this a bit of that. >> leaving out everything in the middle. so. the acknowledgment whose title was in the beginning was a command line in honor of neal stephenson who helped tremendously with this book. in 1956 at the age of 3 i was walking home with my father, freeman dyson at advanced study in princeton when i found a broken fan belt lying in the road. i asked my father what it was. it is a piece of the sun. my father was a field theorist

and protege of former wartime leader of the division at las alamos who when accepting his nobel prize for discovering the carbon cycle that fuels the stars explained stars have a life cycle much like animals. they get born, they grow, go through definite internal development and finally they die to give back the material of which they are made so that new stars may live. to an engineer and build exist between the crankshaft and the waterfront. to a physicists fan belts exist briefly in the interval between stars. julian bigelow gets interviewed. now i will read to you the end of the book. the basement store and all that, the place they were delegated next to the boiler room.

where the first workbenches were installed in 1946 was the institute's main server room until recently connected to the outside world by 504 optical fibers routed through 45 megabit procession's which. in a reversal of the attempts to incubates of propagating numerical organisms, dedicated network monitoring system now watches overall traffic trying to keep out the endless stream of self propagating organisms that are attempting to get in. the viruses are getting so intelligent that it is an arms race said the administrator in 2005. watching the traffic as it goes by. the machines watch out for the machines. the arms race being fought in the basement of bloomberg hall will never be decided in favor of the determined to stick over the probabilistic and

incomplete. the wilderness, only digital wilderness will always win. there are codes and machines that can do almost anything if given an exact description but it will never be possible to determine by looking at a code what that code will do. no fire wall can ever be made complete. the digital universe will always leave room for more mysteries than robert frost could dream of. the twilight zone remains. the 32 x 32 x 42 bit matrix was initialized with coded instructions and given a 10 bit number with orders to go to that location and perform an exit structure which could have been the instruction to modify the existing instructions found in that address. from so finite a beginning there was no way to predict the end results. in november of 2000 the cardboard box turned up in the basement of the west building at the institute for defence studies where its presence had been overlooked.

the smell of burning belts permeated the labor of black greasy just that settled over a collection of world war ii all printers, service manuals that had not been thrown out when a maniac's input outputs which went from punch cards to paper tape. underneath with a carton of processing cards accompanied by a note written pencil and have the sheet of paper disintegrated into several fragments identifying the cards as vercelli's drum cope with instructions how it should be loaded and run. on 82,048 word high-speed magnetic drum. along with a stack of cards were three feet of ledger paper filled with hand written code specifying the laws of nature government fossilize universe it was preserved in a state of suspended animation on the cards. here was a dead sea scrolls. the note accompanying the cards was signed tw l, concludes with the following statement. there must be something about

this code that you haven't explained yet. that is the end. [applause] >> we have a shortage of many things in this country. engineers are among them. software, hardware, you name it but i am now convinced maybe one of our other great shortages is a set of diligent and motivated historians who are going to go find these boxes and incredibly rare papers who really will help us understand the full scope of what has happened in history and what the implications are for the future. >> we have living history and have to have microphones. i think we should. >> talk a little bit about -- let me say thank you to george

dyson. [applause] >> come on up. come on over here. take a chair. i want to hear what it was like to join this project at age 17. >> have a seat. you and george have a little conversation. hold it up. there you go. >> george and i have had several conversations and perhaps it would be interesting to know how we met. i have a son in philadelphia and back in fort collins, colorado i met a woman whose father had been woodrow wilson's taylor

when woodrow wilson was president of princeton university. imagine how vulnerable that was. she was going back to princeton for a high school reunion and we decided we would meet at princeton for lunch but since i got there early i went out to the institute and the receptionist when i told her my little bit of history said why don't you go over to the library. you might be interested in what is over it there and what was over there was a display of the institute electronic computers this -- 50 years ago in the case i found onionskin copies of letters with my initials at the bottom. all those years later i probably

didn't remember writing those letters, but the librarian at the institute said i think you might like to meet george dyson because he is writing a book about the electronic computer project. and left my telephone number and the next day george telephoned and i came back to princeton and we have had a friendship -- and i got to -- if that is any interest to you. when i was 16 years old i graduated from high school in philadelphia, william penn high school for girls and my parents, my father who was a greek immigrants made it clear to me i could not expect to go to

college. nice greek girls found husband's and when to work and that was the end of it. but a counselor at the high school, i was at the top of my class -- she said we have gotten a request for a secretary at the university of pennsylvania and she sent me out there and i met herman bold steen -- goldstein in his uniform and his wife, adele goldstein, and for some reason they hired this night eve girl who didn't even know algebra. i was thrown into this magic world that i think of as a

miracle. after they --eniac was introduced i was invited to go to princeton and for year i commuted on the pennsylvania railroad from philadelphia to princeton junction. have any of you -- i am sure many of you have been to princeton. how many? look at all the hands. did you take the pinky? the train? you took the train from princeton junction into princeton. i did that for a long time. sullivan barker who was a mathematician, was going on a sabbatical to harvard. he wanted someone to stay with his wife and i got the privilege of living in his house a few blocks away from the institutes where i had my own back remand

my own bed room. mrs. solomon bochner took me in hand. i was born a red head. she told me akrevoe, you look like renoir painting and you should wear blue and green. it changed my life as you can imagine. just going downstairs today, i saw a shot of me in the eniac display. you never know where life takes you, do you? >> thank you. [applause] >> all these papers at the institute are terribly disorganized. we went down to the basement and looked at this and akrevoe said

let me organize them. i didn't leave them in this state of disorder. you don't have to pay me. let me come in. it was preserved in this state in which they were found. they are still disorganized. >> one of the things george talked about, the institute itself to be brittle perhaps some of you have been to the institute but the institute is now and certainly at that time was a very unique place that was founded by the bamburger family who owned department stores in new work. george can correct me. they certainly saw what was coming in europe and they brought professor einstein and professor von neumann and hermann weyl and the names that are all in the history books,

brought them to the institute, to this absolutely beautiful landscape. i remember seeing professor on sign with kurt the dell coming to the institute and one christmas the director at the institute who had been president of schwartzburg university invited all the secretaries to his house, to the mansion. i was the youngest. i was probably 17. all the other women were certainly much older and more experienced. there was a knock on the door and professor einstein came in

with george's babysitter and had tea with us. i am embarrassed to say i don't remember a word he said. [laughter] [applause] >> and one other thing i remember was professor von neumann talks about the wonderful pardons that the von neumanns gave. they invited a computer group to go and i wore my prettiest black dress. as i say i had bright red hair and i got to dance with j. robert oppenheimer. can anybody else say that? [laughter] >> thank you so much. [applause]

>> one other quick thing. you were telling me earlier that you were thinking of writing your memoir, talk about that and especially the title. >> today i don't think young women are called secretaries. they are called administrative assistants. they have pretty fancy titles. but in 1946 i was only the secretary. and i think that is what i want to tidal my little memoir because you can do a lot of good as a secretary. i don't say you are very important but they need you. all of you probably have had secretaries. were they important to you? >> yes.

[applause] >> i also have a wonderful experience. i was sidney hope's secretary at nyu. when i needed a job i went to eniac academic institution because that was my experience and i had great experience as being only the secretary. if i can learn to lose -- use my computer, maybe i will -- [laughter and applause] >> booktv has 150,000 twitter followers. follow booktv on twitter to get publishing news, scheduling update, author information and talk to lawyers during our live programming. twitter.com/booktv. >> i wanted to read what i thought was one of the more moving passages as you describe what is happening before the

camera is rolling. so this is what you describe. you said but that was not their intent. that was made brutally clear to me when one of the officers kicked me with his boot in the side of my face smashing my job. it felt like someone had taken a baseball bat to my head. before i could register that unbearable pain one of the other officers slammed me in the lower leg. i heard a crack and was so damn surprised when that happened that i immediately treated with melanie who was one of the arresting officers but who at that point had been the guardian angel at least in my mind, different from the rest. i knew this was going to sound -- i know this is going to sound strange but until that point i had felt safe with her there at the scene. sort of a maternal presence that would not allow things to get too out of control. i shouted out to her they don't

have to do this. tell them they don't have to do this. >> real brief going into that story when i was initially pulled over i had never actually been drinking and driving. i had a job to go to. paying way more money than i was making from the an usher at dodger stadium and pizza stands. they called me up there and told me be ready to go to work monday. when i heard that i had a few beers and went to -- let them knew i was going to work. and how they feel about that. i feel angry sometimes. it was all good. i went out with them and we were on our way with -- my dad used to take a fishing. stuff in the same little community where we were growing up.

a couple of us. we started out over there and the highway patrol got on me and started chasing me in a car and so i saw -- all like to think about was i got to make it to get this job monday. i was supposed to start this job and had cops behind me and i knew i had been drinking. got to get away. >> that is lots of words. >> i had worked myself -- when you come out of prison you to -- try to do the right thing and all of a sudden you know your whole world is about to stop. you are on patrol and going back to jail. that with all like to think of. are lost the highway patrol car and what happened was a helicopter was up there. getting away from the helicopter. my goodness. >> -- weren't you in a hyundai?

>> hyundai xl upgraded. >> the joke here, i was pushing it hyundai at the time. it was an xl g l with a hatchback. i used to drive from philadelphia to chicago from college hall in the allegheny mountains and it wouldn't get past 55. it wouldn't get past 55. you were thinking you were in a high-rise that you were in a hyundai. >> to my surprise they caught up with me and when they caught up with me i could see them pull up on the side of me. full over.

my heart started going. i had to think fast. i already know of these is coming after this case. that is how it goes. that is hard has been over the years. i was looking for a limited area to stop and where i chose to stop there were apartment buildings over there but there was nobody out. i said to myself if i get out here and it goes bad at least maybe somebody will come out side and sure enough it went bad. she ordered me out of the car. husband and wife team, hired a patrol, the initial ones on the case. she came over to me. they had already ordered me out of the car. take your left hand, open the car. and weighed down. i lie down face down. she came over to me and grabbed my wallet out of my back pocket to get my id.

she was doing that. are this looking at them and they ran into the truck and popped the trunk. trying to get his taser and baton out of a car. i said i am lying on the floor face down, tell them they don't have to do this. i already know what is going to happen. when she walked away from me her husband walked up to me and kicked me in the temple area and broke my jaw. he asked how do you feel? everything was broken at that point and the only thing i could do was not let him know he got the best of me which he did. i couldn't even talk. i feel fine. my jaw broke. i felt fine. the sergeant heard that. he comes up and tased --

lighting me up. blood coming out of my mouth and face. how do you feel now? couldn't say anything. ok, run. when he said we're going to kill you i am going to run. i hesitated for a second. stayed on the ground looking for clearance at that point. still on the ground looking for clearance. when i see the clearance it was between the hyundai and the police officer. what i'd do is get up to go run but this -- when this leg was in front of me i didn't know it was broke. when i fall down it was able to make the camera looks like i was going after it because my hands were like this but i was trying to get my hands in front of me. >> the video still wasn't

running. >> that is when the video had been running -- it, that. what it didn't catch was them name-calling and the tasers running 50,000 volts. he did that like three shots and discharge all three shots. while he was doing that these guys were beating me with the baton. tell me to stay still. no way to stay still with those kind of folks running through your body. the electricity hit me and i am feeling like a burned up the house when i was a kid playing with matches. caught on fire and ran out, take a bath and dry off.

that same whipping alike it prepared me for that night with the tasers. the big extension cord, is the same feeling. a horrible feeling. when i felt that it was 20 times worse than the extension cord whipping. the guy was running a taser so that it ran out. stay still. when he stopped the taser i am regrouping myself trying to see if i am still there. i am trying to stay still but i can't. so he starts beating me some more. he is moving, he is moving. i could hear him calling me names. and once you start cursing and

beating somebody you really get into it. they were in to calling me these names and really into it. at this point i am like oh man. >> you have a moment you described in the book. i want the audience to hear you describe it where you said in sir yourself in the long history of black people experiences in the united states and specific reference to slavery. >> i will tell you what really gave me a lot of strength was knowing that blacks before me went through this slavery. up to this day i said to myself it was moments to think. this is what people really went through back in the day and still going through when they don't catch them or don't get caught. i got to survive this.

my brothers and sisters do the same thing so you got to stay alive. stay alive. you only have time to think of that but you only know you are being beaten by people because of your color. my hole instinct is i cannot die out here. i cannot let them kill me. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. here is a look at some of the books that are being published this week. thoughts on foreign relations in screwed:how foreign countries are ripping the mayor caught off and plundering our economy and how our leaders help them do it. former senator bill bradley presents his analysis of the state of the union and offers solutions for job creation, deficit reduction and education in we can all do better. in road to freedom. the how to win the fight for free enterprise arthur brooks, president of the american

enterprise institute argues that free enterprise is suffering due to the expanding size of government. former professional basketball player will alan recounts his founding of an urban farm in milwaukee that produces enough food to feed thousands year round in the good food revolution. in notes on a century:reflections of a middle east historian professor of near eastern studies americas at princeton university bernard lewis recounts his career and the transformation of the middle east from world war ii to the arabs spring. labor party parliament member tom watson and journalist martin hit man present and expos of news corp's in dial m for murdoch:news corp. and the corruption of written. in yours in truth, personal fortune of ben bradley, the career of the former washington post executive editor and provides behind-the-scenes accounts of reporting on the watergate scandal. look for these titles in bookstores this coming we can't

watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and on booktv.org. >> the fact is in our world which is often remarkably stifling when it comes to thinking about writing, about politics, national security state, what used to be called foreign policy but is now more accurately thought of as global military policy we definitely need some guys in rooms even when as with me the rooms are very small. you need people willing to try to step back, ready to try to make their way out of the massive trees and taking the. we are lost in. my book united states of fear is what one guy in such a room could produce a year of reading, writing, talking and doing my best to consider the american world and the absurdities in it that are accepted as ordinary reality. as those of you know, i write long myself and i like to run

long framework pieces of the site by others despite what everyone thinks about brevity, attention span and the internet. before jeremy and i talk i will read two pieces from the book both on the shorter side. the first you will see is my thoughts about guys in rooms. i wrote it in march of 2010 before the military was out of iraq and just after the supreme court issued citizens united decision but before it was utterly clear that the floodgates had been open so wide that what might be called the politics of the rich in america which soon becomes simply american politics. i call it on being a critic, all the world is a stage for us. in march 2010 i wrote about pundits and warrior journalists eager enough to see the u.s. military leave iraq. that piece appeared on the op-ed page of the los angeles times and a longer version at thomaspatch.com and began

wondering the media world. one of its stops curiously enough was the military newspaper stars and stripes. from military man came this e-mail response. read your article in stars and stripes. when was the last time you visited iraq? a critique in 15 well chosen words so much more effective than the usual long angry e-mails i get and his point was interesting. at least it interested me. after all as i wrote back i was then a 65-year-old guy who had never been anywhere near iraq and undoubtedly never would be. i have to assume my e-mail ahead spent time there possibly more than once and disagree with my assessment. firsthand experience is not to be taken lightly. what after all do i know about iraq? only the reporting i have been able to read from thousands of miles away or analysis found on the bloggers of experts like don cole and even from thousands of miles away i was one of many who

could see enough by early 2003 to go into the streets and demonstrate against an onrushing disaster of an invasion the lot of people feel radically far more knowledgeable on iraq than any of us considered the cakewalk of the new century. it is true that i have never strolled down the street in baghdad or ramada or bosnia armed or not and that is at deficit. if you want to write about the american experience in iraq. also true i haven't spent hours sitting tee with iraqi trouble leaders or been inside the green zone or set foot on one of the vast american bases the pentagon private contractors built in that country. nor did that stop me from writing regularly about what i called and still call america's ziggurats when most of the people who visited those bases didn't consider places with 20 mile perimeters, multiple bus lines, fast-food franchise and uganda mercenary cards to be particularly noteworthy

structures on the iraqi landscape and so with rare exceptions worth commenting on. i am certainly no expert on shiites and sudanese and a little foggy on my iraqi geography and never seen the tigers were euphrates rivers. on the other hand it does occur to me that a whole raft of american pundits complete personal government officials and military types who have done all of the above and spent time up close and personal in iraq or at least in the american version of the same couldn't have arrived at dumber conclusions after these many years. firsthand experience valuable as it be for great reporters like anthony should lead of the washington post and the new york times were capturing the british independent can't seem to be all and all either. sometimes being far away from iraq and washington and all the cloistered thinking that goes on from the visibly claustrophobic world of american global policymaking has its advantages.

sometimes being out of it allows you to open your eyes and take in the larger shape of things which is often the obvious even if whittled noted. i can't help thinking of a friend of mine who is up close and personal to u.s. military commanders in afghanistan was they are trapped in an american made box and capable of seeing beyond its boundaries, see in afghanistan. i have no doubt that being there is something to be desired but if you take the personal blinders with you it often hardly matters where you are. thinking about my stars and stripes reader's question the conclusion i come to is this. it is not just where you go. it is also how you see what is fair and no less important to you see that matters which means sometimes you can see more by going nowhere at all. and iraqi tragedy. when american officials, civilian or military, open their eyes and check out the local landscape no matter where they

landed all evidence indicates the first thing they tend to see is themselves. that is they see the world as an american stage and those native actors of countries we invaded and authorized, pakistan, somali and yemen conduct semi war. so many bit players in the american drama. that is why in iraq and afghanistan military commanders and top officials like secretary of defense robert gates and national security adviser james jones continue to call so utterly unselfconscious leave for putting an iraqi or afghan face on whichever war was being discussed. that is to follow the image to its logical conclusion putting an iraqi or afghan mask over a face that they recognize however inconvenient your embarrassingly as american. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> spend the weekend in oklahoma city with booktv and american

history tv. today check in on literary life with a booktv on c-span2 including governor mary fallon's must read for reliable and oklahoma university present and former senator david boren on his letter to america. where books from galileo, copernicus and others from the history of science, action. sunday at 5:00 eastern oklahoma history of american history tv on c-span2. for the oklahoma city bombing memorial with code designer tory blitz sir and a look at african-american life in 1920s oklahoma and american artifacts from special collections at the oklahoma history center. once a month c-span local content vehicles for history and literary life of cities across america. this weekend from oklahoma city on c-span2 and 3. >> now on c-span2 harriet washington once a corporate presence in the medical industry ones buyer issues for patients

if drug research is initiated on a for profit basis. this is just over an hour. >> good afternoon. thanks for coming out this afternoon. there are so many events taking place all over the campus. this is a special one to me. my name is pat thomas. i teach health and medical journalism at the university of georgia's college of journalism and mass communication. pleased to see so many of my colleagues and students here today. the author harriet washington is very special to me. she and i met 20 years ago when we were both at harvard medical school. i added to the harvard health letter. we connected and have been friends ever since. the last time she was at the university of georgia she was touring behind her remarkable first book medical apartheid which won a slew of awards including a national book

critics circle's best nonfiction of the year award. we were so pleased to bring her back this year with her second book and i want to thank all the people who made her visit possible. the graduate program at greater college. the professional residents program for the journalism department and my own graduate program in medical journalism. kerri it is a journalist who morph into an author who gained an international reputation as a medical ethicist. she is a moral thing serve. she is a voice we need to hear and not a practical level she helps explain to us why medicine works the way it does and why at all costs so much. let's welcome harriet washington.

[applause] >> good afternoon. good afternoon. thank you so much. i give my heartfelt thanks to the university. in more ways than one, it is like coming home. for that i am very great forests -- i am not going to get to all of it. i want to caution you that if i should skip over a slide as i am speaking and you are fascinated by it be sure to ask questions during the q&a section. walston not in the habit of reading my slides. your academics. you can read them yourselves. i'm more interested in touching upon things that hopefully will galvanize you and what you can read on the slides. i want to talk about my most

recent work which is actually a critique of american medicine. it is a multi laird critique. what i am concerned about is the ethical and moral consequences of big corporations in medicine. although they may or may not have been well intentioned the consequences even unforeseen have been disastrous for all of us and i hope to elaborate exactly why. i am going to try to eliminate wide by showing history to show that things are not what they appear. including medical journals. i want to go back in time and think about what madison was. i'm not pretending there's any house ian golden age of medicine during which there is no grasping after money but i am

going to say the culture of medicine was very different from corporate culture. probably nothing on the face of that than the fight against cobia which i remember and the march of dimes and a student coming to school every fall and apprehension about who would not be there. what desks would be empty. there were always kids missing and those kids often had polio. when i got a fever or chiller stomachache my parents's first thought was i hope it is not polio. polio in many ways occupies the area of culture that aids occupies today. it was a surge. it was mysterious. was carrying off parts of the population and we were held bent on trying to answer it and we did. not one but two answers. let's talk vaccine. we see it now.

i asked what are you going to do? you have this vaccine. everyone will want it. it will be incredible and someone will make money on this. who holds the patent? the american people, i think. this was not unusual. this was the mentality and american medical research. a feeling that rubbing after money, seeking profits, seeking to maximize profits on patents on biological molecules and medicine was not really a noble calling for research. it was all about -- it attracted -- research was interesting in that it required a long arduous course of study and attracted brilliant people, was very competitive, very difficult but didn't pay very well. they not motivated by money. they were motivated by intellectual competition. they wanted to be seen as

benefactors. that was important to them. they wanted to win prizes. the motivations that drove them drove them very well. under this modality, there were a lot of answers to our medical crises. penicillin, syphilis and other spvs streptomycin legal polio vaccine. many important medications were devised by researchers who were not concerned about money. they worked in universities and universities themselves were different. universities and corporations could not have looked more different. corporations sought to maximize profits. universities were standard science in the public interest. centers of research squarely focused on society be the medical, social or whatever and attracted people who were drawn to that role.

quite a unique role pursuing public interest and that was true of medical research as well. in fact there were laws and regulations that ban universities from using discoveries made with government subsidies. they could not license or sell to corporations in most cases. it was very clear in permeable membrane between corporations and universities. it is not there anymore. i will talk about what happened when it dissolved. one of the consequences is the cost of medication. i think i noted here when medicare and medicaid were passed in the 60s there was no provision for the cost of medication. no provision for helping the elderly and the infirm pay for their drugs. why? drugs are cheap. it wasn't needed. drugs are cheap because

researchers working in universities, devised them and they were marketed and i remember there was a hard time when solomon sold his patents to university. he then banked it back because he was afraid of what people would think if they knew he sold his drug to a profitmaking company. drugs were cheap. they are not cheap anymore. there was high innovation. if you look in the past at figures you will find depending on the year there was a trend where hundreds of drugs were devised every single year. hundreds of new drugs and yet there was a mentality among corporations and among the legislators whom they were whispering that it wasn't enough. there were lots of medically active molecules that are not being made in drugs. thousands of them as a matter of fact. there rose an animus that we have all these patents and no

one is doing anything with them. we need to have hospitals and medical centers partnering with corporations so we can develop all these drugs that are lying fallow. the senator from indiana, rich bullseye listened and began complaining of the floor of congress that we have 28,000 ands that are not being developed. they are just lying there collecting dust. we spent $30 billion collecting. thirty billion in 1980 dollars. so he convinced his fellow senators and congressmen that we need a lot to ease cooperation of universities and private corporations. he was successful under a strange pattern because initially the law was voted down. initially congress wanted no part of it and more importantly very powerful senator russell long was against it.

following his lead senators voted it down but even though he lost, you went on to lose the election. not a good year for him and jimmy carter was a lame duck. at the end of the year there was an emergency congressional session called specifically to financial legislation and he wanted to reinvigorate his law. he wanted another try at getting this passed. bob dole was his partner. he was worried about long. long was in opposition to him. long for is part knowing he was leaving commented to people, i think i will give him a break. he is leaving office. he has been a double boiler. he called him and said take that patent bill. you earned it. interesting language. he got the bill passed before there was any vote but he was

right. the very end of the year. last hour of the last day of the congressional session the bill was passed. the act was passed in 1980 and as a result universities could license and sell their patents to corporations. now we are going to have 28,000 patents made into medications so all these new medications we would all be better off. not exactly. because what happened was universities and corporations did indeed partner and make a lot of money by doing so that did not translate into better medications for you and me. part of it had to do with cultural changes in medicine that resulted. medicine began to take on more coloration of corporate mentality. researchers like corporations became jealous of their patents. this meant collaboration went down the tubes. we can't work with the university researchers working

on the same problem because we want to have the patent. only if we own the patent can we sell it to drug company x and make a great deal of profit. we cannot share our intellectual property with them. any collaboration must be done internally. even their there were problems. there were lawsuits when researchers sought to collaborate. drugs were devised and assigned to corporations corporations were in the driver's c. corporations had researchers to do research. the research department of many medical schools began to look more and more like the department of inc's. they were receiving funds for research, their research dollars for paying for salaries of the researchers. where did loyalties lie? read a still with the needs of the american people corporate the loyalties with corporate needs to maximize patent

profits? also, what happened to all these medications? did we end up having thousands of drugs a year or hundreds of drugs a year? we're seeing innovation decline. can anyone guess how many drugs were approved last year? there were hundreds approved before 1980. you are in a the ball park. last year there were 21. the year before, 26. some years have been even lower. there were only 15. innovation has dried up. even those this sea change in medical research was sold to the american people on the basis of having access to new and better drugs leaders and access to fewer drugs and are those drugs better? are they