mechanic, these days our cars are filled with computers and you often need some college education, at least two-year college education, to be proficient in skills that maybe 40 years ago you just needed a wrench for. and so it was amazing to me that so many of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle said they were against keeping the rate at 3.4%. now, they began to get a lot of flak, i'm sure, from families across the country. and so they decided they couldn't be against it, per se. and so in the house they actually -- the president was making a lot of hey with this and scoring a lot of points. and so over in the house they then decided, okay, we can't say

we're against this. and of course we all want a pay-for. and so we'll propose a bill that pays for it by cutting preventive services in health care. there are two points about that. one, our preventive services in health care are needed. whether it's child i am munization, whether it's diabetes prevention, the fastest-growing disease around; whether it's mammograms, which wouldn't start this year but would start next year as a result of the prevention money. prevention is vital to keeping health care costs down and keeping america healthy. and to say the only way we'll give you student loans is take away preventive health care, it's like telling a family, your little grandson can't get immunization if you want your children to be able to pay for their college. it just doesn't make sense.

and everyone knew it. the second point is, everyone knew it at the time. i don't think there was a person in this town who thought that with paying pour it by cutting prevention that it would have a chance in this body. but, frankly, i think that's what some of my colleagues across -- on the other -- in the other house wanted. their m.o. lately -- their m.o. for the last year and a half has been obstruct without fingerprints. in other words, they want to obstruct everything. they want the government to be a mess. they want people to be unhappy so they'll change things in the election. but they know if they're caught obstructing, it is not going to work out too well for them. and in the second half -- in the first half of this year, i got to give them credit, they carried out this strategy of obstruction without fingerprints quite well. part of it was because the media likes to say, well, on the one hand, on the other hand, even -- it is a very good article,

tangential to this by norm ornstein and thomas mann, one from a conservative group, one interest a more liberal group, which basically laid this out. but in the second half of the last year -- and now this year -- their little strategy of obstructing without fingerprints isn't working. it didn't work on the debt ceiling. it didn't work on the payroll tax cut, it didn't work on the highway bill, it doesn't work on the postal bill, and gloryosky, we're enow passing legislation. they can no longer obstruct without fingerprints. faced with being caught obstructing or not obstructing, they stopped obstructing. good. good for america. good for bipartisanship. if it is good for them on the other side of the aisle, fine. now they're back to their old ways. what was the pay-for we put in?

we thought it would pass. it was one of the things considered in various groups and committees, bipartisan, on thousand pay for the deficit -- on how to pay for the d i think this was considered in the august group of last year. what we simply say is this clierntion if you are a partnership, a big law firm, an accounting firnl, there are some of them -- a small number -- not most, most do it the right way -- but they want to avoid the payroll tax. and how did they do it? they say, we're giving our partners dividends as opposed to salaries. think don't pay a payroll tax of up to a -- a payroll tax we all pay, up to the first $100,000-some-odd. that seemed reasonable and fair. it's a loophole. it was called a loophole when john edwards was caught doing it in his law firm by rush limbaugh, but others as well. many conservatives.

many conservatives called it a loophole. and i wish i had the language here. i'll ask unanimous consent to add to the record language of several leading conservative commentators and gurus about what a loophole this was. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. schumer: and, anyway, so we put this in and we thought they'd accept it. and now of course, to our surprise, last night not a single republican voted to even move forward and debate this bill. we'll let them put their pay-for on the floor to substitute for ours. they're not even willing to do that. leader reid has said that over and over again. i just heard him say it at 2:15 when we had a little gathering by the ohio clock. and so we are here on the floor tonight -- and i see the senator from ohio and the senator from maryland -- we're her on the -- we're here on the floor tonight to ask families and students

throughout america to let their senators know that they want this legislation passed and they want the games to stop. on my facebook faith and on the facebook page of many of my colleagues is a description of the bill, of what people need to do, and we ask you to send us on our facebook pages your stories, why you need it, why it's so important to you. and some of those -- jeff merkley already read a letter from a student from oregon. others have read -- senator stabenow got over 70 responses responsesponses ore--re70 responses from studentstudents michigan. bottom line is simple: this coul should be a no-brairn. if there was every an example of

washington tyingness of a knot, this is the issue. if our colleagues on the other side of the aisle have other pay-fors, we're willing to look at them. but make them real. make they will truly subject to bipartisan compromise, as opposed to something they know we can't accept. i heard that the senator from massachusetts, senator brown, introduced something. but the c.b.o. scored it as not bringing in any money. but we've all agreed that we shouldn't increase the deficit to do this and we should find a way to pay for it and our preferred way is closing the loophole that everyone admits is abusive and a way to get around the payroll tax. we're willing to sit heed and listen to other suggestions from the other side of the aisle so we can help our college students. bottom line is, mr. president, in conclusion, we have to pass this bill. it's an extremely important bill for the future of our country. because every time a young man or young woman deserves to go a

college of their choice and doesn't go, goes to a different one that less suits their needs, because they can't afford it, they lose, their family loses, and america loses. so let's stop the games. let's come together. let's pass this bill, and let's make sure that students of this and future generations are able to afford the college education that is so important to a better future for their lives. i yield the floor. the presiding officer: the senator from ohio. mr. brown: i ask unanimous consent that the time from 5:15 until 7:00 p.m. be equally divided and controlled between the two leaders or their designees and that all quorum calls in that period also be equally divided. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. brown: thank you, mr. president. i want to follow up on senator schumer's call to action, if you will, because it appears things that used to be bipartisan, whether it was the debt ceiling or the transportation bill or a

whole host of the other things has become far too part safnlt back in 2507, a republican president and democrats in the house and senate and republicans in the house and senate -- but democratic majorities froze interest rates for college stafford subsidized student loans at 3.4% for five years. all we want to do is continue this. we want to continue it by closing a tax loop hoavment one political party who doesn't seem very enthusiastic about freezing these rates anyway, seem to be standing in the way. the only way this is going to change is if students all over the country come and tell their stories. they can come to my web site, tell their stories about school financing and how difficult it's been for them. they can come to brown .senate.com/colleg.com/loanstord

tell us their scores. i've been to community college in cleveland. and i've been to ohio state university in columbus, wright state university near dayton and the university of cincinnati and heard many of these stories smed i would like to invite students around ohio who are asking for them -- we're asking them to tell their personal stories because i think in the end personal stories will convince my colleagues that they shouldn't make this partisan, they shouldn't stand in the way. they should work with us so we can freeze this student loan rate at 3.-- the interest rate at 3.4%. because i think it will matter. in my state, and i know the commonwealth of pennsylvania, the presiding officer's state, is not much different than that. the average four-year student in ohio graduate owe graduate with0 accumulated debt from their four years in college. that means that those students will have more difficulty, probably won't be able to buy

home, probably won't be able to dlsh have to delay it, get married, start a family, start a business and we have no moral -- i just think it's really immoral for us to pile more debt on top of what they already have. if we want to build a prosperous society, the way we did with the g.i. bill -- the g.i. bill gave millions of -- provided opportunity for millions of students in the 1940's and 1950's, young men and women returning from the war. it not just helped those millions of students, it lifted up society as a whole. it create add much more vital society because we helped so many individuals with the g.i. bill in those days. this is comparable to that. we not only helped these individual young men and women who want to go to clean air -- st. clean air community college or want to go to you hiram college, they want to go to school, they simply can't -- they just can't -- we can't load up this much debt on them.

let me share -- as we put this on our web site, we expect students to write in and tell their stories. i know they will. we've got five stories that i would -- i'll just share a couple of these today an and saa couple more for tomorrow. bonnie crits, "i'd like to be able to sentsdz my three buys to college. i've work hard to instill the idea of continuing education. my own children will most likely interest to take out student loans to pursue a degree." teachers aroundst aren't so well-paid to pay these tuition bills by themselves. "my children will graduate with more debt than my husband and i had after graduating 35 years ago. this isn't a good way to start a career or a life of their own. please keep the student loan interest rates 359.4%." this woman gets it. she is a teacher in ohio. she last year knew that -- i mean, there was sort of an assault on her profession from

the governor in the legislature when they tried to take away collective bargaining rights. teachers don't make a the love money. they need -- if their children need to go to school, they need to take out student loans. we don't want to raise their interest rates. katie from marion writes in, "i live -- i urge you to vote against raising stafford loan rates. live with my fiance, also attending college full-time. our household brings in less than $35,000 a year. i'm working part-time in order to attend college full-time with tuition and expenses adding in the normal cost of living, it is a struggle to make ends meet every month. i understand and respect the legislative process. i still have faith that it can be effective. i know that compromises have to be made for change to occur. however, i am a worried that by the time everyone is on the same pagers the government will have either taken so long to come up

up with a solution or cut funding so the average american can no longer afford pursue a college degree. i hope you take a away that there are ohioans who are in this for the long run, will not accept anything less than we deserve. our education is not goshable." the last one, rashia of toledo, a second-year law student. "i am a native of toledo. i received an m.b.a. in finance from the university of coul lee dough, a first-generation college graduate. might mother is a cancer survivor, my father was shot and killed when i was ten. i am the eldest of three children. my education has been a miracle of sorts, allowed knee change the circumstances of my environment. it was only possible through scholarship money and federal loans. i am deeply saddened by the rate hikes that loom in july. making education less accessible hurthurts that grew up in corks

like mine. this economy requires a good increasing but the promise of employment is still uncertain. raising loan rate hurts students. please vote to extend the loan rates that expire in july." they're not asking for welfare. not asking for a handout. just want to keep interest rates low so they can go to college without such a huge, own you areous, burdensome debt. why would we do this to this generation? my wife was the first in her family to go to college. her dad carried a union card. her mother was a home care worker, went back to work when connie started college to try to help them pay. she graduated; had very little, almost no help from her parents financially because she was the oldest of four children, but she was able to get enough grants and loans and low-interest loans that she graduated with only a couple thousand dollars in debt

from kent state university. those days seem to be behind us. we should at least aim for that kind of situation today where young people get more of a fighting chance when they come out of school. i just urge my colleagues to listen to these stories taopbd read some of -- and to read some of these stories and to vote accordingly when we bring this bill back up to the floor. today there was a vote where more than 40 of our colleagues said we're not even going to allow this floor -- this bill on the floor to debate. that's pretty unconscionable to me when you hear the stories of these young people. mr. president, i yield -- i notice the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call:

quorum call:

mr. durbin: mr. president. the presiding officer: the assistant majority leader is recognized. mr. durbin: i ask the quorum call be suspended. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. durbin: mr. president, what is the pending order of business? the presiding officer: the senate is in divided time until 7:00 p.m. mr. durbin: is it morning business or are we on an issue?

the presiding officer: we're on the motion to proceed. mr. durbin: thank you. mr. president, we voted at noon today on whether we were going to start the debate on the student loan interest bill. for those who are following it, the largest federal loan to college students, the stafford loan, has a current interest rate of 3.4%. that interest rate expires on july 1 and doubles to 6.8%, meaning any students taking out a loan after that date will pay twice as much in interest. the practical impact of that is fairly clear. if you were to borrow $20,000 to go to college through the federal stafford loan and paid 3.4% on that $20,000, you would find that you were paying $4,000 less than you would pay if you were at 6.8%. so

it adds roughly 20% to the cost of that student's loan over the life of repayment. that is a significant expense. most of us are aware or should be that students across america are going more deeply and deeply into debt to go to college. average college indebtedness, $24,000, but an average doesn't tell the story. because if you have one hand over a flame and one hand in a freezer, on average you've got to feel just fine. but in this case, students are going much more deeply into debt than $24,000 and the interest rate on the loan is significant. so it would seem that this is a pushover. who disgrease with this -- disagrees with this idea, that lessening the burden on students and college is good for our country because more students seek higher education, good for the students, good for their

families because many of them cosign on these loans. in fact, this is one those air issues where both president obama and governor romney agree. don't let the interest rate go up from 3.4% to 6.8%. so today we called a motion to proceed, which literally means that we would begin debate on the student loan interest rate bill to keep it at 3.4% and not let it double july 1. we heard from both sides of the aisle that everyone agreed we had to do this. sounded pretty easy. then the vote was called, and at the end of the vote, not one single republican senator would vote to proceed to the debate on the bill. not one. one senator, senator snowe, voted present. every other republican senator voted no. those who were present voted no. how did this become a partisan issue? we have president obama and governor romney agreeing, most

americans agreeing we don't want the cost of student loans to go up and it falls flat on its face on the floor at noon today. not a single republican would vote for it. i don't swro understand it. they say we don't like the way you pay for it. it costs $6 billion to lower this interest rate that we would otherwise collect. well, we pay for it by changing the tax code and closing a tax loophole used by accountants and attorneys under subchapter s corporations to avoid paying the regular income tax on their income. they go through this s corporation, call income dividends and don't pay the regular income tax rate and don't pay the withholding tax that ordinary income is subjected to. i think it's reasonable, it produces $6 billion, it pays for the interest rate to stay down. i can ten accept that. some on the republican side of

the aisle say no, that is a tax increase and they, many of them, have categorically have said we will never,, you pefer, pefer, vote for -- ever, ever, vote for a tax increase no matter what it is. so they walked away from the student loan bill. they say we have a better way to do it. senator reid came to the floor, the democratic majority leader, he said fine, we'll call the bill and you offer your way to do it. pay for it a different way. bring it up for a debate. let both sides debate it. then let's vote on it and then let's move forward. no. they wouldn't accept it. they all voted against proceeding to the bill. for anyone who is following what's going on here, this is what's known as a filibuster. the senate is infamous for filibusters now. we filibuster everything. even bills that are bipartisan, everybody agrees o'huh huh, we're going to drag this out for hour after weary hour eating up the time of the senate, people watching c-span, calling cable

channels, asking for a refund because nothing is happening on the c-span channel, it's because they're watching a filibuster on the floor of the senate and not much happens. members like me will come from time to time, give a little speech, try to explain what's going on, but nothing substantive is going on. we're not considering the bill. and sadly, what we're doing or failing to do is going to affect a lot of innocent people. 7.4 million students will be affected if we don't change this interest rate. 7.4 million students across america. 365,000 in my state of illinois. these stafford loans, federal government loans, are mainly directed towards families in lower-income students so students can borrow money to get through school. let me confess my con conflict here. wyant be standing here without government loans. i borrowed money to go to

college and law school, and paid it back. otherwise i couldn't have gone to school, period. just didn't have the money to do it. that's the story for most students. so these loans are needed across the board. we all know it from personal experience. in 2007 to 2008, 30% of all undergraduates took out federally subsidiesed stafford loans. they averaged $3,400. this year the number is up to eight million students. 365,000 plus borrowers in my state and as i mentioned, failure to reduce that interest rate will add to the cost of the loan that they have to pay back. if congress doesn't act, these borrowers, 7.4 million students, including 1.5 million african-american borrowers and 986,000 hispanic borrowers will face this new penalty, this new loan commander in chief increase. -- loan increase. it's clear to me we should be

spending our time here dealing with this and i learned it firsthand last week. i started visiting campuses. in chicago, depaul. downstate, bradley university in peoria. in detate your, mill can university. each of these places students came forward to explain what they were facing in terms of student loans. i'd like to enter into the record the experience they shared with me. one i met was amy. amy goes to depaul university in chicago. she's an art major. her sister michelle came to join us at the press conference. here's amy's situation. amy comes from a working family who can't help her pay. so she works and borrows to try to get through school. amy is an art major. her student loan indebtedness at the end of june will be for four years $80,000. that's how much she owes. but she says a bachelor's in

art's not good enough. i think i need a master's and another $60,000 i need to borrow. whoa. $140,000, young lady, and you are 25 or 26 years old? you're borrowing not only the government loan but way beyond it into private loans. the government loans is 3.4%. the private loans for students in school range from 8% to 18%. they're much like credit card debt. they're so expensive. this young lady thinks she is doing the right thing. she was told go to school, get an education. follow your dream. her dream is at the end of a very long and expensive road, $140,000 in debt. her sister michelle, a year at depaul decided to be a teacher and teach grade school. she looked at the indebtedness she would have to incur to finish school and decided to move home to indiana and go to the local public college and get

as many credits as she could at a low price and perhaps finish at depaul when it's over. she thought if my debt is too much, i won't be able to teach. i can't make enough money. i wouldn't be able to pay my loan back. that is one real-life story of two sisters who are doing the right thing and are facing student loan debt. how could we explain that we're going to raise the interest rate on either one of them at this point in paying back their student loans? it will be impossible for amy, who could be $80,000 to $140,000 in debt, and mao shell, how is she going to be the teacher which we want her to be? bradley university in peoria, a student named rose, she told me if the interest rate on her loans doubled which will happen if the filibuster continues by the republicans, she might have to move in with her parents after graduation and make other sacrifices to make her own payments. rose estimated that increasing

interest rates will cost her about $4,000 because she plans on graduating with about $20,000 in debt. i also met deshawn from alton, illinois, majoring in economics and political science at bradley and wants to be an international lawyer someday. he's a first generation college student and he realizes without student loans he doesn't have a chance to realize his dream. so what is difference of opinion here about how to pay for these? these decreases in the interest rate from 6.8% to 3.4%? as i mentioned we would close a cool loophole on subchapter s corporations used by accountants and attorneys to avoid paying ordinary income tax and the withholding that goes with it. there is another proposal coming out of the house of representatives which i think is really bad. they say that we should pay for keeping student loans affordable by reducing preventive health care programs.

we have a fund that we've created that pays for among other things, preventive care, childhood immunizations. so if the money is taken out of that fund, fewer american children will be receiving the vaccines and the inoculations which we want for all of our kids to keep them safe. is it important that kids receive these vaccinations? i think it's very important. senator reid said at a press conference here that the incidence of the return of whooping cough -- most people thought was that was long gone -- in the united states is at the highest level in 50 years, and the incidence of the return of measles in this country is the highest level in 15 years. childhood im-- immunizations are important to keep hurt kids healthy and safe. there is money in this prevention fund which the house republicans want to cut out calling it a slush fund, to be

used for diabetes prevention. mr. president, you can't pick up a newspaper or a magazine without reading about the incidence of obesity, the growing number of overweight children, and the increasing incidence of diabetes among our children. in fact, forms of diabetes that used to be confined to adults in america are now being found in children in america. and these children have to be treated with pretty powerful drugs to overcome this disease of diabetes. so the house republicans say let us reduce the amount of money we are using for public education and treatment to reduce the incidence of diabetes and instead spend it on student loans. what a faustian bar began that -- bargain that is. what a bargain with the devil that is, put at risk children when it comes to immunizations and diabetes in order to help

grown children, young adults, pay their student loans. is that what it's come to, that we are so determined to not touch the tax code and the loopholes in it that we're going to risk the health of our children or the cost of college education for our kids as well? i think the approach in the house is not defensible, and i hope that at the end of the day we can make sure that we do this in a responsible way. mr. president, i wanted to mention two other things very quickly. one of the real problems with debt in this country relates to for-profit schools. go to yahoo, google, put in college or university and step back because what is about to hit you is an avalanche of ads for for-profit schools. i don't need to recount the names on the floor. everybody noles them. these are the schools that are

advertising constantly, come to our school. they run the ads on television. you might have seen one, the one that tells a story, shows a young lady, lovely young lady who is in a robe and pajamas and she has her laptop on her bed and she says, you know, you can go to college in your pajamas now. i'm going to xyz for-profit school getting my degree. here's what's happening. these for-profit schools are inundating the internet and recruiting young people who otherwise might not go to college, many of them, and 10% -- remember these three numbers. 10% of kids graduating from high school in the united states end up this these for-profit schools. so what for-profit schools are looking for are young people who are in lower-income family categories because they qualify for the most federal assistance. pell grants, federal student loans.

10% of the students at the for-profit schools, and 25% of all federal aid to education goes to these schools. more than two and a half times based on the number of students the amount you might imagine. but hang on. it gets more challenging. almost half of the student loan defaults in america come from for-profit schools. why? the kids get too deeply in debt, they end up dropping out because the debt is overwhelming, or they finish and get a worthless dip paloma and -- diploma and can't find a job. that is the story. so the student debt in traditional schools, public universities, private, not not for-profit universities is one thing. on the for-profit side of things the debt is just mounting particularly through private student loans and here's the kicker -- and you know this, mr. president, because you've studied this issue, too. student loans are the only

private loans in america, the only ones, not dischargeable in bankruptcy. what it means is you're carrying it for a lifetime. you'll carry it till you pay it. that young lady, $140,000 in debt couldn't have a clue what she's just done to the rest of her life by getting that deeply in debt. i have students contacting me over $100 in debt for a four-year education and find out the diploma's worthless. there's one school, westwood college, westwood college, that operates out of denver, colorado, and has a campus in chicago. they're under investigation now by our state attorney general. too many young people have been watching too many crime shows. westwood college knows it. how would you like a bachelor's degree in law enforcement? maybe, i'm watching "hawaii five-oh" and" c.s.i.," i like

that stuff. let me tell you the story of one of those students. went to westwood college, took five years to get a bachelor's degree, and took the diploma to the police departments and sheriff's departments around the cook county carry area and they said that's not a real college. we don't recognize it as a diploma. you don't have a botch bachelor's degree. there she she was a worthless diploma and 80 nudes in student loan debt for a worthless diploma. now she's living in her parents' basement. can't borrow another nickel to go to a real college and owes obviously $80,000, struggling with two jobs to try to pay it off. but then there's another part of the story we shint ignore. many of the schools notice that just hooking the kids isn't enough so they have the parents cosign and sometimes the grandparents cosign. six weeks ago, "the new york

times" ran a story of a woman who had her social security check garnished because she owed on a student loan. it wasn't her loan, it was her granddaughter's loan. she cosigned it. her granddaughter defaulted. now the grands mother -- the grandmother has her social security check being docked because she owes on the loan. this is a horrible situation. it will be a worse situation if the interest rate on july 1st doubles. this republican filibuster against bringing down the interest rate on student loans loans -- we now have an empty floor. whoever thought it was a good idea for us not to debate and not to vote on this interest rate increase is long gone. they're not even here. that i think is the real unfairness of a filibuster. if you can stop the business of the senate and say you can't even take up the bill or consider the amendment, then i think you owe it to the senate to be here and explain your point of view. i hope tomorrow when the dawn breaks and a new day in the senate opens, that some

republicans will come to the floor and explain this filibuster on college student loans. it's unfair to the students, to the families, to our country. people definitely need a college education. many of them do in order to succeed in life. some need training. even those who need skilled training may end up at a community college ire course that requires a -- or a course that requires a loan to get through. i hope the republicans who started this filibuster, who said we cannot even take up, consider or debate the student loan interest rate issue, will be here tomorrow to explain why and spain why they think this is not -- and explain why they think this is not worth the time of the senate to debate. instead, we will just languish in this filibuster. mr. president, i ask that the statement i'm about to make be placed in a separate place in the "congressional record." the presiding officer: without objection. mr. durbin: mr. president, it was 11 years ago when i introduced a bill called the dream act. just this last week, i was back in chicago to attend a fund-raising dinner for a group

that i really respect. it's called the merit music program. a lady about 20 years ago, when she passed away, left a legacy to the merit music program. and the legacy said, the money i'm leaving and any money you raise, i hope you will use to go into the public schools of the city of chicago and to offer to young people a free musical instrument and music lessons if they are interested. this program has been an amazing success. it turns out that it's created an avenue and opportunity that many young people never dreamed of. and some of them have talents that are incredible. i was there at their dinner last -- last week and the violinists came in, kids from all over the public schools of chicago, and they did a magnificent job.

they feel so good about themselves, they develop a talent. they have a 100% college placement rate from the merit music program. there's a linkage there. you know this, mr. president, as not educator from the state of colorado, city of denver. many of these kids for the first time realized, i'm worth something, i can do something and i can do it well. and it's that confidence and pride that not only takes them through the experience of playing music but the experience of life and the experience of the classroom. it makes a big difference in their lives. so 11 years ago i got a call from the director of the program , duffy adelson. duffy was there last week. duffy's a wonderful woman who's committed her life to merit music program. she said, i've got an issue. one of the students temerity music program -- students at the merit music program, is an amazing young girl who plays concert piano. she's been accepted at major music schools, including the manhattan cefb to her of music in new york -- conservatory of music in new york.

she is korean and her mother, when she was filling out the application for the manhattan music school, came to the box that said, "citizenship," "nationality." the girl turned to her mother -- the girl's name was teresa lee lee -- turned to her mother and said u.s.a., right? and her mom said, no. you see, i brought you here when you were two years old and on a visitor's visa and i never filed any papers. now, your dad's a citizen. i'm a citizen. your brother and sister who were born here are citizens and we don't know what your status is. and daughter said, what are we going to do? and she said, we'll call durbin. first they called merit music and merit music called me and we checked the law, our staff did, and found out the law is clear, this young girl who had spent her 16 years living in the united states had to leave the united states for ten years and apply to come back. ten years. that's the law. and i thought to myself, that isn't fair. mom didn't file the papers. mom did something wrong. why wouldn't we let this young

woman do something right? so i put in the dream act. i said, if you graduate high school and you have no serious problems when it comes to convictions or moral issues, and you either complete service in the military or two years in college, we will put you on a path, a long path, toward becoming legal and becoming a citizen. that's the dream act. so the dream act has been here for 11 years. i've tried to pass it on the floor repeatedly. i can get 50-plus votes. i have last time i called it. but the senate has this magic number of 60, super majority. it's even passed the house of representatives. i've never been able to put 60 votes together here. and over the years, the support from the other side of the aisle has been decreasing. as it decreases, it gets more difficult. over the years as well, a lot of people have stepped up and spoken up on behalf of this dream act. colin powell said we'd love to have these young people in our

military. secretaries of defense, like secretary gates, have said the same thing. president obama was cosponsor of the bill. these are young, talented people who can make a difference. before i tell you the story of one of them here, i want to tell you the enof the story about teresa lee. she went to manhattan school of music, she majored in concert piano, she met a young man and married him. he was an american citizen. that made her legal in america. and she played in carnegie hall. how about that? 11 years ago, our government, the law said leave the country for ten years. instead, she came to manhattan school of music, made it through , and has made a success of her life. there were a couple people who stepped up and made sure that that success was a reality in chicago and they were at the merit music program. they had literally underwritten her college education because she couldn't qualify for any help, no federal loans, no federal grants, nothing because she wasn't a citizen of the

united states. it's an indication of a talent that would have been lost or wasted if we didn't -- if she didn't have good circumstances and we don't have the dream act, for others who face the same thing. let me tell you the story about ided riaz. this is a photo of ided riaz. she's a runner. i learned about her on an article on espn.com. ided was brought to the united states from mexico when she was two years old. she grew up in san diego, california. in high school, she was an honor student who played three sports, an active volunteer in her community. among other activities, ided volunteered at a children's hospital in sherman heights community center where she tutored students and worked with the -- elderly. ided was a member of the national honor society and she graduated from high school with a 3.98 grade point average.

this senator wishes he could have had had an average like that. ided was accepted into university of california at san diego but she was unable to attend for financial reasons. because she is not legal in the united states, she's ineligible for federal student loans or any other federal aid. instead, she attends southwestern community college, where she has flourished as a student athlete. she maintains a 3.5 grade point average and her dream is to become a doctor, an obstetrician. ided has become the top-ranked women's junior college cross country runner in the state of california. among other awards, she's been given athlete of the year at southwestern college and pacific coast athletic conference track and field athlete of the year. ided has been offered athletic scholarships by more than a dozen top four-year colleges, but she can't because ided is subject to deportation. she's not here legally.

another one of the student i've spoken to have similar challenges and their dreams can't be fulfilled unless we give them a chance. just recently i heard about a student who didn't know which way to turn, didn't know if the dream act would ever pass and applied for a visa to take his college education and go to work in canada. the canadians welcomed him. we need talent like that in canada, they said. so they took him and we deported him. are we a better nation for that? who got the best of that bargain a person who was he had caid in the united states -- educated in the united states, succeeded in the united states, dreamed of being an american citizen is now living in canada. that, to me, is not the kind of thing that we need to see in our country. as i said, just because the parents made the mistake, got something wrong, these young

people should be given a chance to do something right. i'm going to continue to work on passing the dream act and i would happy to i can appeal across the aisle to republicans as well. why is this a partisan issue? don't we all believe that you shouldn't punish a young person for the crimes or sins of their adult parent? that's what's at work here. it's a basic question of justice. these young people, like i did, grew up in this america pledging allegiance to the flag, believing this was their home. all they want is a chance to make their home the home of their dreams, a better place. i hope my leagues will take the time to meet some of the dreamers. that's what they call themselves now. they have web sites. they've stepped out into the light of day to introduce themselves to america. it's our only hope for passing. when people come to meet these young people and realize what amazing people they are, i think they'll understand that giving them a chance is only fair.

it's totally american and it's something that we should do as soon as possible. mr. president, at this point, i'm going to yield the floor and suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call:

quorum call:

ms. stabenow: mr. president, i'd ask suspension of the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. the senator from michigan. ms. stabenow: thank you very much, mr. president. i rise to express deep concern on behalf of families, students all across michigan who are very, very upset at the vote

earlier today where we did not get enough votes the supermajority needed to be able to get beyond the filibuster that's going on on the floor by colleagues on the other side of the aisle. and, therefore, we can't actually get to the vote on the bill that would lower or maintain the lower student interest rates, student loan interest rates for students all across america and certainly in michigan. we know what will happen july 1 if we can't get beyond this. we actually have a majority of members, 53 members. i'm very proud that all of our members on this side of the aisle voted in fact to support the effort to maintain the low student loan interest rate. we didn't have the supermajority because it takes bipartisan votes to be able to get there, to be able to overcome the filibuster on the other side of the aisle. but we have enough votes and we just want to vote.

we have enough votes to be able to pass this bill to stop the student loan interest rate hike act. we have enough votes, and we just need the opportunity to be able to vote. and what does this mean for middle-class families, for students in michigan and all across the country? we're at a time, first of all, when middle-class families are struggling to make ends meet. and no more so than in michigan where we have gone through the deepest recession for the last decade of anyplace in the country. and we need to be making college more affordable for michigan students, students across america and their parents. not less affordable. we ought to be doing things that would actually add to what we've done to support lower interest rates, more access to student loans, not taking that away, which is what's happening right now on the floor of the senate because of the filibuster that is going on. higher education costs are already rising.

michigan students are graduating with mountains of student debt while high school graduates are being priced out of the opportunity to be able to go to college. in fact, the average michigan student is graduating with over $25,000 in student debt, and that's a heck of a place to start when you come out of college and you're looking for a job and trying to get startd in a professional -- started in a professional life or trying to continue your professional life and at the same time support your family. that's a lot of money. that's a lot of money. and we should not be adding to that, because we're talking about additional debt on top of that $25,000 average if in fact we can't pass this bill. and we have right now more than 300,000 michigan students, those who have borrowed money because they believe in themselves, they

believe in the future, they want to get the skills and the degrees that they need to be able to go into the workplace, to be successful for themselves and their families. 300,000 students who are going to see their stafford student loan interest rates double if we don't pass this bill. double if we don't pass this bill. we need a sense of urgency like every single family feels right now who finds themselves burdened by loans. and we understand, i mean they make the decision and we've been supportive of that making loans available and lowering the interest rate over the last several years so more people can go to college and be able to get the skills they need and be able to be successful in the workplace. but we should be continuing to support that and doing even more to help them lower the cost, not allowing the student loan interest rate to double come

july 1. folks in michigan are scratching their heads right now, you know. let me share in fact stories that i received. i received a lot of input, a lot of stories from people not only throughout today but before today, but certainly folks who watched the vote this afternoon and are horrified what this means personally to them for their children or for their families. and we've received a number of e-mails to our office, and i'm very thankful to people who are sharing their stories and i'd like to share just a few of them on the floor of the senate. liz from traverse city wrote "please, please don't let them raise the interest rates on student loans. i have two sons at m.s.u. -- my alma mater -- and i'm a single mom. i work a full-time and two part-time jobs." let me say that again. "i work a full-time and two

part-time jobs. and they work as well. and without the student loans, they wouldn't be able to go to college. even with the full michigan educational trust, met grant, i have worked all their lives." she put money into a program, a michigan money to be able to save money and put money aside. but this is somebody who's working one job and two part-time jobs on top of her full-time job, and her sons are working. and they still have student loans to be able to piece it together to be able to go to college. and she said, "please help. our three-person family is working very hard to get through school." and i would suggest that they are. liz, thank you for caring about your sons and working as hard as you are working. we need to make sure that we don't add cost to liz and her

two sons in july on top of everything they're doing to be able to create an opportunity for those two sons to be able to go to college, to be able to have a better life and a future for themselves. we shouldn't be adding cost to them. lars from ann arbor wrote "as a student at the university of michigan, i find it hard to keep up with current events, but i try in earnest, and this is an issue that affects me more than most others at this time. i'm footing the bill for my college education, largely myself. as my mom and dad, a high school art teacher and a g.m. retiree respectively, do what they can to help in the short term, i like to work -- i'd like you to work on behalf of keeping interest rates lower." so lars, going to the university of michigan, a great university, and he's footing most of his

college bill himself; his mom a teacher, his dad a g.m. retiree doing what they can to help. but he has to have student loans. why on earth would we be adding to his costs come july when he's working very, very hard with the support of his family to be able to create a great life with a great education from a great university? kasandra from grand blank wrote "i'm not what they consider a typical student. i'm a single mom of two obtaining my bachelor's degree in social work. as a student and as a mother, i'm attempting to lift myself and my family out of poverty by doing the right thing: getting a college education. while it's been tough and there are days i wish i could give up, i am pursuing my dream, and i will be graduating with honors in one year.

if the rate increase happens, i cannot afford paying back my student loans while raising two children. please do not let the interest rate expire on july 1." casandra, congratulations for all that you are doing as a single mom of two, as you said, lifting your family out of poverty. we in michigan are a tough bunch. we don't give up, but i know how hard it can be trying to hold it all together during these times. and i want to thank you for doing that. and you're absolutely right, it would really be outrageous to see the interest rate on your loans, when you're graduating next year with honors -- congratulations for that. but to be able to know that you're going to at least have the interest rate on your loans continue as they have been, i know would be a relief and a help to you.

an gel ka from -- angelica from ypsilanti wrote i am the mother of three. i have returned to school to get my degree. i've been accepted at eastern michigan university -- congratulations -- and am starting classes in june. without affordable student loans, i would not be able to attend school. i want to make a positive difference. getting my degree will give me and my family a better standard of living and get out of the terrible cycle of poverty. this bill is critical to making the dream of higher education a reality for americans and ensuring our workforce is prepared to compete in the 21st century global economy. angelica, again, congratulations. as a mom of three, making the

decision to go back to school, getting accepted, creating a plan for how you're going to be able to use student loans, be able to hold it all together financially as you're moving forward, it's really outrageous to think that there's a filibuster going on right now to stop us from voting on something that would help you. we have the votes. this is not about whether or not we have the votes to maintain the low interest rate. we have the votes. we're being blocked procedurally from getting to the vote, and that is something that's very, very hard for me to understand. michael in mt. pleasant wrote "i'm a student at central michigan university studying information technology, and i'm also putting myself through school by whatever means possible. the amount of student loan debt i have -- i will have to pay after a four-year degree casts a

looming shadow. we're always taught to look toward the future and to jump at any opportunity that presents itself as an opportunity to better one's self. we as students are now looking at a future filled with uncertainty. please do whatever it takes to do what you know is right and save our future from an impending financial defeat. save our future from an impending financial defeat. michael, again, working very hard. has a path. knows what he wants to do. puts a plan in place, like most students in most families, to figure out how we're going to be able to pay it both now in terms of the cost and paying back the student loans. and if we can't get a vote on this bill, we're pulling the rug out from under michael. jennifer in michigan wrote --

"for me, it means i will be very unlikely to finish grad school. we say that you -- the u.s., especially michigan, needs to invest in technology, yet they want to do things like this that will result in an uneducated society society." jennifer, i'm with you. this makes no sense whatsoever, at a time we know we have to outinnovate, outcompete in a global economy. doing things that add costs for families, middle-class families, working families to add costs for loans. i mean, you're bearing the brunt, you're getting a loan, you're believing in yourself and your future. we ought to be doing everything we can to support that, not adding more costs, and that's unfortunately what will happen if we cannot get beyond this filibuster on the floor of the united states senate, to have a real vote, a final vote.

we have the votes. we're just being blocked from getting to the vote by the procedures of the senate. katherine in michigan wrote -- "when i heard the interest rate for student loans is going to double, my heart sank. how is this even possible? my daughter is 21 years old, a psychology major at western michigan university." another great university in michigan. "and i'm so proud of her, as any parent would be. with interest rates set to double, how can these students possibly even begin to think of paying these loans back? all this does is discourage kids from going to college at all. and once again, only the privileged will be allowed to succeed. please, once again, we need your help. there has to be a light at the end of this dark tunnel for

these kids and for our nation. there has to be a light at the end of this dark tunnel for these kids and for our nation. i couldn't agree more. we have got to make sure the light they see is not an oncoming train. we have got to make sure the light they see is actually their way through the tunnel of debt that comes with college loans and out into a future that is brighter for themselves, for their families. i mean, that's the hope, that's the promise of college education. and we have a responsibility to make sure that we're doing everything possible to support the hopes and dreams, the hard work, the sacrifice that is going on in colleges after colleges, in home after home where people are making tough decisions in order to be able to give their kids a brighter

future. now, i was proud to help author the legislation in 2007 that cut the interest rates to where they are now, 3.4%, and i was pleased to help lead the effort as well to reform the student loan program and expand college access. those were good things to do, not bad things, good things. people have benefited, 300,000 people in michigan right now have benefited from that opportunity. the commitment we made to support young people, people going back to college to have a brighter future through a college education. now is not the time to turn that around. the stop the student loan interest rate hike is commonsense legislation. it doesn't add a dime to the deficit. fully paid for, and it's something that needs to get done

now so that there is certainty for families across michigan and across the country. education really is the road to opportunity in this great country, and michigan is home to world-class universities and community colleges. they are conducting cutting edge high-tech research to help transform the economy. our schools serve to open doors, create opportunities for thousands and thousands of graduates every year. i am always honored when i have the opportunity to speak at a graduation, as i have done this year, and to see the pride, that relief on the faces of students who have worked so hard. their parents, their pride, and the commitment that they make to their children. i know how that feels as a guarantee sitting in the audience as your kids graduate

and walk across that stage with their diploma. this is ingrained in us as americans. it's a foundation of who we are to create an opportunity for people to go to school, k-12, and then to have a chance to go on to college so they can have the best shot at success. that's what we have had as a foundation in terms of our values as a country. this is not the time to turn it back. we need to be making it easier, not harder for students to achieve a college education, which greatly improves their chances of getting a good-paying job, being successful in life. we're at a moment now where we had a vote today where it was very clear we have enough votes to pass this bill, to make sure that student loan rates don't double. we have enough votes to pass it.

we just don't have support from across the aisle. we don't have the bipartisan votes that we need to get to a supermajority to stop a filibuster. that's what's going on right now. we need to vote. folks don't have to agree with it. they can vote no on the final bill. just let us vote. on behalf of the people we represent, let us vote on the bill. on behalf of 300,000 students and their families in michigan, on behalf of hundreds of thousands of more who are looking for the opportunity to be able to go to college, to be able to work hard, take all the risks that come with that and to be able to have a better life, i ask that we simply allow a vote. let us vote on this bill. it's time to get on and let people know that we get it. we understand what families are going through. we understand the squeeze that middle-class families are going

through on every front right now, and make sure that access to college, a higher education is not just there for the wealthy and connected, but that it's available to everybody because we're a stronger country because of that. thank you, mr. president. i would suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call:

ms. stabenow: mr. president, i would ask that we suspend the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. the senator from michigan. ms. stabenow: thank you, madam president -- mr. president. i ask unanimous consent that the senate proceed to a period of morning business with senators permitted to speak therein for up to ten minutes each. the presiding officer: without objection. ms. stabenow: i now ask unanimous consent that the senate proceed to the consideration of calendar number 358, s. 743. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: calendar number 358, s. 743, a bill to amend chapter 23 of title 5 united states code and so forth and for other purposes. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding to the measure? without objection. ms. stabenow: thank you. i ask unanimous consent that the committee-reported amendments be agreed to, the bill as amended be read a third time and passed, the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate, and any related statements be printed in the record as if

read. the presiding officer: without objection. ms. stabenow: i would now ask unanimous consent that the senate proceed to the consideration of calendar number 390, h.r. 2668. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: calendar number 390, h.r. 2668, an act to designate the station of the united states border patrol located at 2136 south naco highway in bisby, arizona, as the brian a. terry border patrol station. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding to the measure? without objection. ms. stabenow: thank you. i ask unanimous consent that the bill be read a third time and passed, the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate and any related statements be printed in the record as if read. the presiding officer: without objection. ms. stabenow: i would now ask unanimous consent the senate proceed to s. resolution 447 submitted earlier today. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: senate resolution

447, congratulating the students, parents, teachers and administrators of charter schools across the united states and so forth. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding to the measure? without objection. ms. stabenow: i further ask unanimous consent the resolution be agreed to, the preamble be agreed to, the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate, and any statements be placed in the record as if read. the presiding officer: without objection. ms. stabenow: thank you. i would now ask unanimous consent that when the senate completes its business today, the senate adjourn until wednesday, may 9, at 9:30 a.m. that following the prayer and pledge, the journal of proceedings be approved to date, the morning business be deemed expired and the time for the two leaders be reserved for their use later in the day, and that the majority leader be recognized. the presiding officer: without objection. ms. stabenow: i would ask for a quorum call. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll.

quorum call:

quorum call:

ms. stabenow: mr. president, i would ask to call off the quorum call. the presiding officer: the senator from michigan is recognized. ms. stabenow: thank you very much. the presiding officer: without objection. ms. stabenow: it is the majority leader's intention to proceed with the stop student loan interest rate hike tomorrow. we expect to control the first hour with the republicans controlling the first 30 minutes and the majority the second 30

minutes. if there is no further business to come before the senate, i ask that it adjourn under the previous order. the presiding officer: the senate stands adjourned until wednesday and thursday, may 9,

wednesday and thursday, may 9,

>> that they now subsist in the world. it's very significant "new york times" exposé of the most highly classified documents of the war. >> i see. i didn't read the story, but that was leaked out of the pentagon? >> old study was done for mcnamara and then carried on after mac the mayor last by clifford and the peaceniks over there. this is a devastating security breach. >> in washington d.c. listening to 90.1 fm on xm channel 119 and at c-span radio work. >> president obama visited than innotech complex at the state university of new york albany campus today to talk about the economy. here's congress to take up what he called his to-do list on improving the economy, including

proposals to give tax breaks for companies that move jobs into the u.s. and helping homeowners refinanced mortgages at a lower rate. the president spoke for a half an hour. [cheers and applause] >> hello, new york! [cheers and applause] >> thank you. thank you so much. everybody please have a seat. it is great to be back in albany. it is wonderful to be with all of you here today and i want to thank governor cuomo not only for the outstanding introduction, but also for the extraordinary leadership he is showing here in the great state of new york. please give him a big round of applause. [cheers and applause] he is doing outstanding work. i also want to thank mayor jennings who is here. give the mayor a big round of applause. [cheers and applause]

don't be shy. we've got chancellor since her. we appreciate very much. .you are how you rose i want to make sure i write. for hosting us here today. we've got a couple. [cheers and applause] a couple members of congress here. paul tonko. [cheers and applause] and also representative chris gibson is here. [applause] and all of you are here and i'm happy about that. [cheers and applause] so it is wonderful to be here at the university of albany nanocollege. this is one of the only colleges in the world dedicated to nanotechnology.

and it is an incredible complex. but you're working on pardus it in rooms that are 10,000 times cleaner than a hospital operating room, which is very impressive since clean is not usually a word i associate with college students. [laughter] maybe things have changed since i was in school. now the reason i came here today is because the school -- alessio. ms community represents the future of our economy. right now some of the eight most advanced manufacturing work in america is being done right here in upstate new york. cutting-edge businesses from all over the world are deciding to build here and higher here. when you go schools like this one better training workers at the exact skills that those businesses are looking for. now, we know the true engine of

job creation in this country is the dear. not washington. but there are steps we can take as a nation to make it easier for companies to grow into higher, to create platforms of success. everything from giving more people the chance to get the right training and education to supporting the research projects into science and technology. in fact, there was a substantial investment nadir out of talking to governor cuomo about the investment his father made here to help get this center started. there are things we can do to make sure that if you are willing to work hard and meet your responsibilities, you can find a job, find a home, and maybe start a business in the support link if you're kids a chance to do even better than you did. and that is something we believe

has to be available to everybody, no matter where you come from, no matter what you look like. we can make a difference. and at this make or break moment for america's middle class, there is no excuse for inaction. there is no excuse for dragging our feet. non. over the last two years there's been steps i've been taken on my own to help spur the kind of innovation we are seeing here. and also to help the overall economy grow. so he announced a new policy several months back that will help families refinance their mortgages, save up to thousands of dollars a year. we set up long-term competitive grants all across the country's of thousands of construction workers can get back on the job. we simplified the student loan process to help roughly

5.8 million students like the students here save money on repayments. [cheers and applause] so these are some steps that the administration has been able to take on its own. but the truth is, the only way we can accelerate the job creation that takes place on a scale that is needed is bold action from congress. because of the recovery act, because of all the work we've done, we've created over 4 million jobs over the last two years. we have created hundreds of thousands of jobs each month over the last several months. so we're making progress, but everybody knows we need to do more. and in order to do that, we are going to need some more action from congress. democrats and republicans have to come together. and they've shown that they can

do it. i mean, they did some important work. passed tax cuts for workers, approve trade just open up new markets for american products. we reformed our patent system to make it easier for innovative ideas to come to market. those are all good things. but the size of the challenges we face requires us to do more. so back last september i sent congress a jobs bill that included all sorts of policies that we knew would help grow our economy and put more americans back to work. that wasn't just my opinion. it wasn't the opinion of democrats. it is the opinion says nonpartisan experts, economists to do this for a living and analysts on wall street to evaluate what is going to really make the economy grow. the one big piece that we were able to get done was make sure that we didn't see payroll tax go up, get 40 bucks taken out of

their paychecks each time. just about every time we put these policy up for a vote, the republicans in congress got together and we said no. they said no to put in hundreds of thousands of construction workers back on the job repairing roads, bridges, schools and transit systems. notably new tax cut that hires new workers. noted putting more teachers back in our classrooms. more cops on the beat, more firefighters back to work. and this is at a time when we know one of the biggest drags on our economy has been lanced by state and local governments. that is true across the country. it is worth noting, this is just a little side. after there was a recession under ronald reagan, government employment went way up. it went up after the recession under the first george bush and

the second george bush. so each time there was a recession, with a republican president, compensated -- we compensated by making sure that government didn't see a drastic reduction in employment. the only kind government employment has gone down during a recession has been under me. so, i make that point -- [applause] and make that point just say you don't buy vote in government pitcher here. frankly if congress said yes to helping states that teachers back to work, to put the economy before our politics, then tens of thousands more teachers in new york would have a job right now and that would mean not only more unemployment rate, but more customers for business. now, i know this is an election year, but it is not an excuse

for inaction. six months is plenty of time for democrats and republicans to get together and do the right thing, taking steps that will spur additional job creation right now. just say no to ideas that we know will help our economy isn't an option. there's too much at stake. we've all got to go in the same direction. so even if republicans are still saying no to some of the bigger proposals we made, and the jobs that, there are some additional ideas that could help people get to work right now that they haven't said no to yet, some hoping they say yes. they are simple ideas, the kinds of things that in the past have been supported at democrats and republicans. these are traditional ideas that it had bipartisan support. they won't have as big of an impact as rebuilding our structure or higher by teachers, but together all of these ideas will do two things.

grow the economy faster and create more jobs. so today i am announcing a handy little "to-do" last we put together for congress. you can see it for yourselves that whitehouse.gov. it is about the size of a post-it notes to every member of congress should have time to read it. ..

petraeus they can either build their equity that on their homes, or iggulden use that money to do things like helping their kids finance college education. so congress should give those responsible homeowners a chance to refinance and lowered rates. we estimate they would save at least $3,000 a year so that is on our to do list. it's not complicated. second -- [applause] and was second, if congress fails to act soon, clean energy companies will see their taxes go up, and they could be forced to lay off employees in fact we are already hearing from folks that produced turbines and solar panels and a lot of the screen energy that they are getting worried because there is uncertainty. congress has removed some of the tax breaks that are so important

to this industry. and since i know that the other side in congress have promised they will never raise taxes as long as they lived this is a good time to keep that promise when it comes to businesses that are putting americans to work and helping incentives on foreign oil. [applause] so we should extend these tax credits. that's on the to do list. that's number two. number three, congress should help small-business owners by giving them a tax break for hiring more workers and paying the higher readjustment we are the engine of economic growth in this country we should not hold them to a situation where they may end up having to pay higher taxes just by hiring more workers we should make it easier for them to succeed. so that's on our to do list. that's number three.

member for, congress should help our veterans returning from iraq and afghanistan find a good job once they come home. [applause] our men and women in uniform have served this country with such honor and distinction a lot of them come from upstate new york. now it's our turn to serve them so we should create a veteran's job that helps them find work as cops and firefighters and employees in the national parks. that is on our to do list. and then the last item, the fifth item, which bears a special on what is going on here, the last item on our congressional to do list is something the will help a lot of you in particular. you know better than anybody that technology has that chance by leaps and bounds the last decades and that is a good thing

businesses are more productive, consumers are getting better products for less, but technology has also made a lot of jobs obsolete. factories where people once thought they would retire suddenly lost count on the jobs that provide a decent living got shifted overseas. there has also been a lot of pain for a lot of communities and a lot of families. there is a silver lining in all this though. after years of undercutting the competition, now it's getting more expensive to do business in places like china. wages are going up, the shipping costs are going out, and meanwhile american workers are getting more and more efficient companies located here are becoming more and more competitive. so, for a lot of businesses it's now starting to make sense to bring jobs back home. and here -- [applause]

in the tri-city area you have companies like ibm and global, andres that could have decided to pack up and move elsewhere but they chose to stay in upstate new york because it made more sense to build your and higher here. you had more to offer. you got some of the best workers in the world. you've got an outstanding university. malae bond was happening in albany to happen all across the country in places like cleveland and pittsburgh. [applause] i want to create more opportunity for hard-working americans to start making things again and start selling them all over the world, stand with those proud words made in america. that's the goal. [applause] so the good news is we are already starting to see it

happen. american manufacturers are creating jobs for the first time since the late 1990's. and that's good for you but it's also good for the businesses that supply the materials you use and it's good for the construction workers who build the facilities to work and. it's good for communities where people love playing more houses and spending more money in restaurants. everybody benefits when manufacturing is going strong. so you've heard about outsourcing today more and more companies are in sourcing. one recent study found that half of america's largest companies are thinking of moving their manufacturing operations from china back to the united states of america. [applause] that's good news. copps even when we can't make things cheaper than other companies because of their wage rates, we can always make them better. that's who we are. that's what america is all

about. [applause] so this brings me back to our to do list. what we need to do now is to make it easier for more companies to do the right thing. and one place to start as our tax code. at the moment, companies get tax breaks for moving factories, jobs and profits overseas. they can actually end up saving on their tax bill when they make the move. meanwhile companies that choose to stay here are getting hit with one of the highest tax rates in the world. that doesn't make sense. and politicians from both parties have been talking about changing it for years, so i've put forth my own plan to make a right in the long term. but in the short term, before we completely rework the tax code, before we have done a full-blown tax reform, at the very least we can do right away is stop rewarding companies that shift

jobs overseas and use that money to cover living expenses for companies that are moving jobs back here to america. [applause] so we're putting that on the congress' to do list. [applause] this is something simple to do. we shouldn't wait. we should get it done it right now so that's the fifth item. that's all of our to list. i'm not trying to overload congress here. so, over the next few weeks i'm going to be talking about this have to do list when i'm on the road. i'm going to be talking about all the things that congress can do right now to boost our economy and accelerate even more job growth. of course, it's not enough just to give them the list -- we've also got to get them to start crossing things off the list. and that's where all of you come in. i'm going to need you to pick up the phone, like an e-mail,

tweet, remind your member of congress we can't afford to wait until november to get things done. tell them now is the time to help more americans save money on their mortgages, for us to invest more in clean energy and small businesses, it's time for us to help more veterans find work, and it's time to make it easier for companies to bring jobs back to america. it's the right thing to do. now, i'm cheating a little bit. i said that was my to do list. there's actually one other thing they've got to do. before they do anything else, congress needs to keep student loan rates for doubling from students who are here and all across the country. [applause] that has to happen by january 1st or rates on stafford loans doubled. young people are nodding their heads. they don't like that. they've heard about this.

and we need to pass a transportation bill that guarantees almost a million construction workers can stay on the job. [applause] so, the good news is both parties say they want to make this happen. we've done this before. so congress just needs to work out the details. don't let politics get in the way. to get this done before july 1st. those bills should be passed right now. so i'm cheating a little bit. there are actually seven items on the to list. but two of them are old business and folks have already said they want to get them done. albany, we've got a long way to go if we are going to make sure everybody who wants a job can find one, and every family can feel that sense of security that was the essence of america's middle class experience. but we can't just go back to the way things used to be. we've got to move forward -- to an economy where everyone gets a fair shot, everybody is doing their fair share, everybody

plays by the same set of rules. and that's what you guys are doing here in albany. you're investing in the future. you're not going backwards, you're going forward. with your help, i know we can get there, because you're in america we don't give up. we keep moving. we look out for one another. we call each other up. that's who we are. and if we'd work together with common purpose, i've got no doubt we can keep moving this country forward and remind the world just why it is the united states of america is the greatest nation on earth. thank you so much, everybody. god bless you. god bless america. [applause] ♪

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one year after the u.s. raid dillinger osama bin laden the marine corps university hosted a discussion on the future of al qaeda. panelists discuss the evolution and capabilities of the terrorist organization and its effect on u.s. interest around the world. >> standing between you and a cold glass of beer at a very long and informative day. i too want to think the organizers of the conference for this very affirmative opportunity but also for inviting me to be a participant. the format of the last group here is a bit different. it's supposed to be a more open kind of discussion rather than a panel of presentations, so i think what we will do is to ask each of the panelists to spend a few minutes with their thoughts on how al qaeda wealth wrap up

maybe touching into the themes of the conference is already surfaced so i will make a briefing after that and then throw it open to conversation along ourselves and interaction with the audience as a whole. we will see how that goes. without further ado, dr. norman cigar who has largely been responsible for getting us here. so, norman come if you would start off. >> basically just to raise a couple of points, three points for further discussion, to raise more questions perhaps how it might end what we can do perhaps in the direction even if we look at those models, and they are not watertight models, integration, i think one can pretty much for see the that very unlikely nucleus could

enter the system that doesn't mean that they canno g. ghadafi was successful at reintegration which were released associated with al qaeda with some of the individuals were actually from al qaeda by breaking them off just before 2009. by putting pressure on them although not about 5,000 or 900 the other 4,000 got out after itself. so if the margins factions can be enticed in that way, but to buy and most it's new. eradication whether by military means or political means i think may be difficult also because

one can in the regional affiliates or task forces many are rooted in their grievances that may be endemic long-lasting whether in yemen or iraq or syria there will be a variety that may be elsewhere that may respond or may be rooted in the factors that have to be addressed and may be different. management from my perspective i think that is the more realistic to try to reduce this threat to make it less lisalyn perhaps we find, quote on quote, acceptable ale low level of threat mer

recognizing that it may not go away entirely to beat new york city has 36,000 personnel in its police force. when you bring it down to a level that you can contain perhaps as a more reasonable measure of success and a reasonable goal that can be achieved which is not easy the other is how you push it along in the interaction. how do we get there if that is your goal. there is the direct approach and we haven't been doing that to target genetically throughout the strategic center of gravity and leadership, but also dismantle the organization and just financed intelligence and often the local governments that

were doing that in the outside forces and something done a very good job saudi arabia in particular and others as well. that is a way. that is a direct team. but i think also on the internet, which is perhaps longer, more frustrating in many ways has to accompany that come and that is to try to isolate if you want the nucleus from the much larger group of potential supervisors, potential recruits, or the combat support, the people of provide intelligence, logistics, the ability to move, all the intelligence, all of that, and to try to isolate by making it less likely that this much larger pool of looks of salary will be there. some issues are difficult to

address but if you address the arab and israeli issue there is genuine progress foreseen towards the solution i think that would affect a lot of people in the arab world and maybe at the margins that are very necessary for a movement like al qaeda to have the ability to operate may be more locally kashmir or elsewhere there are these regional issues as well. but i think that those do have to be addressed. how do we know when we get there, how do we know when we succeed? will there be peace reading, peace treaties, that is a different type of termination. it is a consensus. i don't know when people will say that's acceptable just like kriseman there will be some incidents in the year but that's

parable them the cost available and the resources and the threat. that's something that the society has to determine. the political structure and the public for and it's not something that just emerges automatically. it's not something you can plan for, but it's something that has to be at least pondered to get their. it may be ugly before we get there. you never know. if you're in a group like al qaeda does feel that substantially threatened, then you never know, or the more radical elements come to the floor as the leadership of the established leadership not to be excluded, dirty bombs, things like that. it may be very, very messy

because if a system to some extent has fragmented when they find a solution one places that don't work in another place, some of the parts of the worldwide movement may be very resistant, may not be amenable to the reduction and threat were certainly not in the same case and so that success may be uneven, and especially now we may have the appearance of new theaters if one wants to see perhaps in syria, perhaps in of libya very messy situations which are beyond external control and a lot of it is locally determined to dig this, my bottom line is what's reasonable, most realistic solution or and and the state to

try to manage a problem to reduce the threat as much as possible, but to be realistic and say this is not going to go away completely very soon. >> from the rand corporations for your thoughts at this point. >> my thoughts are my own. thanks to the university for having me. the limits of our ability to analyze this is readily present. i did a case study of about 89 cases for insurgency, and you are drawn to conclusions that lead you to believe the prologue and you're also bounded by the kind of cases that you have available, is the kind of cases we have available for terrorism to to be regional or they tend to be steve senator or local cases where a group has a local grievance that can enter into a local political process. and so all the case study

approach is that i've looked at for a terrorist group ending tend to look at these regional cases. lagat the work of the recent publication by recommended counterterrorism ends and also took a look at the seth jones book how terrorist groups end. both of them lead off i think within the first paragraph say in all terrorist groups in the. of course i think we have to ask ourselves in a panel like this when we are dealing with al qaeda is this a case that breaks the mold. is there a mold braking case because if you start thinking about all the types of endings that are imagined in the studies, there are limits to the number of outcomes but there are some outcomes that have been imagined because the cases are so localized. so the six cases that cronin envisions he seems to have the broadest number of possible outcomes, all of them are either ones that have been attempted

were considered for al qaeda come and i did that with the scene in the discussions today and certainly with your comments nobody is very clear that any of them are going to bring an end to al qaeda be made to cavitation, the decapitated al qaeda for all intents and purposes we killed the head of the organization and it did not, it is an extraordinarily resilient organization. it's transnational. it's not regional, its local. in that way, it can become unpopular in some areas that remain popular in other areas. it can collapse in on itself of the leadership level and local levels yet still survive because the name itself, al qaeda, the brand is so powerful and valuable that the decimation of the al qaeda leadership for change in leadership or some kind of a feed on the battlefield is not likely to eradicate the value so the chances for another council, another group, another leader to rise up and replace the decimated leadership is actually very strong.

you can decimate the leadership and still have all of the subordinate groups that we have discussed today etc. and they can continue to operate and wait for the leadership council to emerge. what i envision is instead of one of the endings which was transition, she envisioned that they might transition into conducting insurgency or conventional combat, with transformation and this might be the mold braking case the transfer into another type of terrorist organization. they remain a transnational group but they divest themselves of their operational ring. they no longer participate directly or implicate themselves directly in operation as they do now. they no longer see themselves as the vanguard for the global terrorist movement, and instead they revert back or at hear more to their name which is the base. they serve as a guidepost and dave logistics organization

which they do and they serve to inspire through a magazine which aqap produces. it's entirely feasible that they would take this approach to segregate themselves from all racial groups that might lead us to target them or provide justification to target the senior leadership. it's also possible to consider the emergence of the new leadership. al-zawahiri isn't the most popular guy. if he were killed, another decapitation strike, somebody more influential, more charismatic and potentially somebody that hasn't been implicated can take his place. it might not even be necessary to know whom we are dealing with in terms of leadership. you could have a situation where the name, the idea of al qaeda is the thing that is powerful, not the individual behind the mask read so those are all things i consider and recommend both of those studies and i will repeat them how terrorism in

this and seth jones among the big disclosure that is in the study how terrorist groups are. >> that the marine corps university. >> these are my own as well. i think that i will go off of that a little bit because i appreciate that you and i think the al qaeda brand is popular but i don't think it's valuable. and we will talk about that. it's also interesting important media i will use the word franchise because we carry the product forward come something forward from central and the product of bringing it forward as an essentially to part. it's a world view and by world view, i'm talking in the context of the narrative framing it's the way we make sense of the phenomena that we see and experience in the world and there are explanations that al qaeda has helped craft were put together synthesizing and area

to help explain the actions of different actors in the world and that's the merit of the propagate out to their affiliates or to anyone that's interested in body in that narrative. along with it is the program, and the program is kind of a so what. if you will believe what i believe and see the world the way that i see the world it's interesting to look at al qaeda as a social movement, and i say that because there are political organizations and to affect political change and to affect political change, you need mass and i don't just mean in numbers of people but in political capital as well. the need to be something besides the couple people in the mom's basement complaining about the world. they need to have some kind of forced to act, and i would argue that al qaeda's program isn't set up for success in that regard and the main reason why is that the linchpin is a program of violence. it's conducting violence and it is propagated in a narrative

sustaining to sustain violence and that doesn't ultimately have purchase with mass with a lot of population. it's a great as we have identified as a way to win at the political space, because when you have no voice in the political sphere you need to have some way to get your word out, some way to get attention. but once you've done that and open the political space the needs to be political dialogue to transition into the change and i don't think that it exists. we can look at some of the fearless out there and you can argue whether al qaeda has actual fall the and you could argue that we don't all come about using this approach will either have an outcome that is violent involuntary which is essentially we took over the world to consume into this global caliphate or there's kind of a violent voluntary, which is more like what some of the

strategies talk about which is causing enough conservation in the world population such that they lose confidence in their government and when they lose confidence in their governments to become savages and have no guidance and al qaeda will provide that through the mechanism of islam to unite everybody. there's a lot of assumptions there of homogeneity which outside the mind of a miss america candidate there is no world peace where everybody thinks we are going to believe the same thing. so there's a lot of purchase there to get everybody to believe that. so, he essentially the argument is that al qaeda is not an existential threat to the u.s., it's really not. it's something that is definitely painful. it's a threat to world peace, but it needs to be treated in a way that doesn't command and we talked about earlier today it doesn't turn us into an elephant. they have enough weakness in their own program that it won't

sustain itself unless we prop it up. >> all three of the panelists we have used the words into great, integrate, eradicate, manage, and i would just add to those constraints and degree of which is very similar to what norm said about restricted transition and what you and i talked about of eventually getting to the point where there are a couple of angry people having a beer and complaining about the world in somebody's basement. they have gone from a serious threat to a nuisance. and that, to me, means that we are taking away time and space from them and also degrading their capability. an excellent question this morning on the capitation work. my answer to that is how do you decapitate a starfish? you cut its head off there is no head, you create more of them. what i like is some work that

philip williams and others have done on attacking as well the networks by degrading their capability by going after the critical notes. very interesting that we've had a series of attacks in the u.k. and the united states most notably the times square. a brilliant strategic planning and absolutely and letcher execution especially with making the bomb. revised been told is that we made a point in iraq targeting bomb makers as an example of the crittenden network capability of really hurting you, and i think that, to me, is the strategy. and i think of terrorism as a weapon and a tactic, you know, i like this term transition and so on. i think the thing we also have to think about is some of these groups have no desire to win. on the board in thailand they are carving out living space. they are into this thing we call alternative governments, but i think this issue of just reducing it to the threat is

something you can live with and include with the comment that he said when he landed in ireland with a lousy place to hand me a gin and tonic and the second was we have achieved an acceptable level of violence. you don't want to say that. it's not nice to think about and essentially that is how we have negotiated the arrangement with organized-crime to read we don't like it but we don't want to rid ourselves apart so we reduce it below an execrable threshold. at this point if you to read anything or just throw it open to the group. okay. anyone. you get the first question please it for the microphone. >> i will just comment very briefly. in that response to the notion that it's already over with respect to al qaeda that they

may have been reduced to an acceptable to disregard the whole question of the regional affiliates and kind of go with dr. crenshaw on the notice that these are really no more localized phenomenon rather than a global thing. so i guess if it is the case that they have or will transform into something like the pbr of international terrorism as you described them, then it is over from our perspective. because part of their program would be social movement really is the notion that we are moving the u.s. from the regional stage to create the political space through all the lesser evils and create their own caliphate. if that is not their primary objective any more than we don't care at a fundamental level. or at least we can see that al qaeda has ended regardless whether it still uses the name, i guess i would just end by saying how we respond to their condition determines a lot whether they end or not. and open that to your comment.

>> i'm not sure that one could say that it's over and some. there's always a danger of the regeneration unless you manage to keep managing to control, and if they have a local focus in some ways but even the german branch if you want from al qaeda, speak of yemen, the deutsch as a springboard to moving eventually into saudi arabia and the rest of the gulf. this is not -- yes, they are fighting a local conflict. that's their focus, but they speak about the red sea, and they do see an interconnection among the theaters. the yemen peninsula for the arabian peninsula of greater

syria and the jerusalem and all that, but personally they not only local. even in yemen, their literature is -- this was a spring board. we are going to build the force from here, replaced the generator forced. estimate of our responses. >> i need you have to take what they see seriously because that is their intent with the of the capability is another matter altogether. but the intent certainly if you ignore or the local governments ignore that's the intent, that is the plan if you want, how to frustrate the plan you have to be able to ensure that it doesn't happen.

>> i agree it becomes obvious and it's a great point. it's something that we imagined as an existential threat and it's important to be reminded of that. however, i do think that it has influence on our interest around the world, particularly if you think about al-shabaab and the somalia and the effect of the coast, you think about our ally in morocco and the stability is going over from ramallah and things like that, algeria i don't know if i would go on the record and called him an ally but i'm not sure we want to see them destabilized any further than they are but i think we benefit from stability in general, and the instability in general harms us anywhere because we are -- with global reach and global interest. so, while we may have tempted them down to a great extent, i didn't address counterterrorism in my talk and i'm not sure i have a good message for them.

i think that admiral mike grayson has a pretty clear idea of what he wants to come and maybe that is the idea of the long war which i think that we abandon may be that needs to be brought back in. >> you got your earlier question on the third party intervention is a measure of understanding, understood response in such that you could take afghanistan and sometimes the question is maybe the navy recruiting to the impetus for the insurgency is the presence of the counterinsurgency. so you have to make the decision as to whether your intervention and character of intervention is exacerbated in the conflict or not and i'm not by any means an isolationist but i think it is to the point. >> what i can see is the kind of return to the policy where we have a much smaller footprint

advised and assist because we seem to be better with a smaller footprint than a big one. over there and then i will come back here. >> when you talk about six essential truths we could all agree even the attack on the world trade center was not an existential threat to the united states. the political ramifications of that caused a massive reaction. so regeneration, some major attacks could end up creating a situation where our colonel would be involved in trying to do the same thing all over again, so this is why the long term containment idea seems to have a lot of logic to its and perhaps we just have to recognize it is going to be there. we can't close our eyes and hope it will go away but at the same time, we can keep it to a level where they can do it again to

us. basically in this room it's about doing it again to us. our nato allies say the same thing. to do that, to make sure it stays that way, what are your thoughts about the things that need to be done to get people in general to understand that the only country with existential threat they are worried about is israel, and not from al qaeda but from some others. and two or three bombs in the right places can destroy the country. that's not the case here, even the dirty bomb that was talked about. what are your thoughts about that? >> writing we've entered the era of the security force assistance engagement. i don't think we have the resources to limitless global operations against all these groups. we don't have access to all these areas so we are already seeing that increase in the security force missions i think

in my personal opinion that seems to be the right way to go. the economy of course force multiplier. framing this particular conflict and all these conflicts too that's one way to do, the propensity for us to take responsibility for the express operations against terrorists global and to be the world's terms as with all terrorists. if we continue an active campaign to do this and there's to talk in these ways it's a problem either regionally that we would be glad to support for the work globally we all must subscribe to and at the same time we've got to accept that yes there will be taxes five or

six anarchists' i don't know their names were tried to blow the bridge the other day did that get the same news as an islamic terrorist? >> dr. weinberg would like to ask. please wait for the microphone. >> thank you very much. the groups are allegedly more durable than the six organizations their religious center of turkoman religious inspiration when they have more staying power in the organization's national cyprus or ideological but also occurs to me that the trade religions have been periods of religious excitement are followed by dormancy that the united states

has gone through several great awakenings over the course of our history the back to sleep once upon a time there was a ukraine back to the holy land was arrested of istanbul and compared to islam and of the masonic movement dissipated and the same is true that is the case in sudan who fought off the head back in the 1880s, and after a while he was killed in the media are, his movement went away as well, so i guess the point i'm driving at is the girl was motivated by religious commitments doesn't necessarily mean it's going to endure indefinitely the monotheistic

religions in the world is the part of excitement so on and so forth go away people go back to sleep or return to their normal forms of religious expression. >> i'm not nearly as worried about truck bombs and airplanes as i am by the phenomenon in norway or the small team that went into mumbai. that is infinitely more lethal and much harder to stop, so i would like to agree with you on that except i think the internet is a game changer where it becomes possible to be socially a deal logical movement to keep energy out there and i think we are going to see a lot more of these individual kind of things like the man in france. i don't see movements or organizations but i see a lot of very undifferentiated raids that have been funneled and mobilized a illogically stomach rebels

want to discount the power of religion certainly. it's a tremendous driver, but it might be interesting to look at islam as more of a ideogram for the oppressed. it has replaced global communism and a lot of ways even those that are not as long that. i think it's a fantastic loan will to bring up. he mentioned in court that he got a lot of his material from the al qaeda web site and from inspire magazine. so, certainly the connection is there. there are not a muslim, not arab come on the indonesian textile and the indian muslims in the united states, so caucasians that have ascribed to al qaeda and shifted over might be driven by religion but i think it's important to consider the concept or the idea that there is always some kind of larger umbrella group or umbrella

concept out there for the oppressed and maybe this is it. >> one has to look at other. there's the tautological site, but there is in fact in a lot of their analysis the political and military analysis it is very much one of iraq on the policy revaluation in 2009 in the first paragraph is we all know what the religious background is. let's talk in real terms and the rest of the study is put out by central al qaeda. they look at the ways and the means that people are for the military doctrine and they do have -- they look at that site as well. it's not just ideological. it's a combination, its 50/50,

80/20. it's there. a look at it geostrategic the committee look at in geopolitics , so it's not just a very narrow religious motivator, which is there. clearly, the framework may be that there is also tangible if you want to call them grievances. the arab-israeli issue that's something that can be shared with nationalists, secularists in the arab world in particular, and something that overarches religion, and again, religion used grievances. >> down here. >> i have to follow on the comment of the movement in the arab world, and one of the things that has gone around and

around in my head is al qaeda may exist but it has been overcome by the other things. the world is not what it was a year ago at least our perception of it. utah got in terms of the oppressed that have not those that want. it's threatened some of the remaining governments that have to some degree and authoritarian pseudo democratic status. the d.c. g countries coming together and looking to act globally. the saudis coming out and talking about a gcc in the next level. what happens in the world if the world really starts to coalesce in ways the we don't see against

threats and syria, iran and what happens if the group coalesces and then somebody makes a bad mistake, somebody miscalculates, if there is a violent act by a nation state in the region, what happens there? al qaeda could become of much less confidence given that political stage for the world. >> i'm already -- i'm not standing and cheering about the air and spring. i'm glad the dictators are gone but i also know there's a story because they create incredible and unrealistic expectations, so i think if somebody in egypt says the face of the world is no longer osama bin laden it is the square, but on the other hand,

the expectations are so high that i'm worried about regional instability it may not be al qaeda. that's the most i can say. >> al qaeda has done extensive analysis. they were shocked as everybody by the arab spring, and they've seen it has pluses and minuses. there were areas where in the courses they told the recruits not to try to even operate egypt, libya, syria, because they were too tough. things have changed. syria and libya now have become potential theaters. the coffee's the revolutions of jobs, and they think that the new governments are not going to be able to meet those expectations. that people are going to become evolution ought to run for congress or anything like that. what they want to do is serve as the vanguard to push in their direction. and do they see this as the marxists would say as an object if plus clacks in some ways they

do. things are growing in the direction that they would like that these governments may become more friction with the west or friction with israel. and that is a plus is they would become more islamic in their social policy. for them that is a plus. are there dangers? of course. in the main enemy why were they crushed in gazzo? it was by the extension of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. it's very large. his was a competitor. so there are pluses and minuses, and they see that. and they can't predict, they can't forecast any more than we can but they will try to take the advantage of where they can surface things out. when they see the gaps made in syria and libya they will try to explore commesso opportunities are dangerous just like for us.

>> to answer one of your questions of al qaeda become so irrelevant i say we celebrate because we understand state to state dynamics and we have the tools to do that and we have a hard time to do this, so that might be something we are seeking. if you can reach five the ghost and ask him about the possibility for the arab unity. estimate interesting question. >> i.t. i will close by asking all of you to think the panelists for a nice discussion. [applause] [inaudible conversations]