>> good afternoon. both come to george

washington university. also the viewers on c-span. for complete transparency a good friend of mine. someone i ain't stepped up to the hardest or one of the most difficult jobs in the united states government former administrator of the tsa. someone came to the issue after 9/11 with the faa perspective also from the private sector with supply chain, risk, that we talk about today with aviation security. the verbs are not always the same as the now not only to

comment on his time with the tsa but also a bit of a landscape where we are, where we hope to be with major gaps and shortfalls that we can enhance the country's capability. this is one of the toughest jobs. most people's impression is the dna are irs that is the next agency that has the most contact in the environment they have an important mission.

shortly after 9/11 there were steps in what that needed to be taken and quickly. we have to ask the hard questions and you are here to make us smarter. if you have not bought it yet, "permanent emergency" buy it. doing the interviews call in this have to do with your book. the floor is yours. >> thank you for the introduction and for hosting this. praying this consistently same voice in the of the why is it discombobulated world and it is an honor to be here under the auspices of the homeland policy

i hope we can make this interactive from the media questions. because if you look and today's news about los angeles, pat downs, congressional pat downs, we live in a world where tsa is the "permanent emergency" it closes the loop on my book called "permanent emergency" and today is a perfect example of have urgent, pressing, serious news frequently about tsa but never get to out of the

emergency mode. now 10 years later it is beyond where we get out of that mode to find ways to make excellent, world-class securities sustainable and supported by the american public. i would start their january 28, 2009, 12:00 noon i was outside on the local day without a job. what next? i realized i was walking off with a lot of learning from situations that are unique but no way to download that

to the public or anyone else. you should share it. taking that time period i intelligence substratum of what was running through on the classified world. various plots then another timeline of what was going on in the public.

and down it would be of counterterrorism in general. naïf and means is the co-author. i knew he was a fine writer. all made describing later, have you google him? he is a rock star and part of bay colt band called trans am and detours the world with his band but they do not to make enough money to do music so he writes books on this side.

i read these pieces and he would return them like it was boring. it turned the book into a bunch of stories that are interesting. to bring forth information that has not been seen before. the book but a massive pick up with the "wall street journal." it got a lot of attention and resigned of top five thing is to fix the tsa.t?s? that is interesting and notable but trust and

accountability how do we deal going forward is worth÷?y?> thinking about at the end of the day when the spy stories are done with "permanent emergency" what i hope comes from that from the american public is the agencies and the trade offs we want to make. airports tried to be started

is it you are thinking to see that they look the same and hire people and a high premium to be consistent. what happens rolling ahead three or four years? and they are so dense ask protect the country after 9/11, welcome aboard, i if you go outside of the list you are disciplined. have the effect to ossify

how could it stay that way? protect everybody. if i follow that standard operating procedure at the end of the day i am protected. if i stay with the alliance process you are accountable for the result. congress but then we bunch of stories of front

accountability. then it is okay. to have the sound bite we will turn on the brains of our officers, if you take that, also of take the mistakes take checkpoints. a very difficult it drives to the core of the security operation. issue, what is the risk we are willing to absorber?

plane and hertz this private parts is it worth the pat down or other alternatives? we use the word risk-management. there are fundamental issues that don't qualify as classified that we should discuss. the key for coming. i welcome your conversation. >> i will start with a couple of questions that we will open to the audience. the premise and most central point* for us to succeed we need to be apart and of the committee and the general

public has to assume ownership. astute be successful in our initiatives, i am concerned we are at it a sense of complacency you do not want the cagey going. certainly not a flat line. [laughter] the point* being, what kinds over the general public? and you were at the helm of tsa. what could you have done differently if you would take that position romney

collor obama administration administration, but would you have done differently and what surprised you most? the other active is agile. with the thinking predator that will base their actions on how you defend yourself. you displace risk not even managing. how to read get the general public on board, given your time at tsa difficult to be in the position to have those conversations and what would you would five the next did mr.? >> -- administrator.

>> i hope the next is a person named john who has a a ted year term with the stability of a leader who understands risk-management and security needs and intelligence operations with highest integrity. that is a good place to start. how do we win back the public? >> look at israel. the betty want to talk about profiling or the interview the israeli security. but the fundamental premise is the israeli people and the services are together. that is beyond what you can buy with scanning equipment.

that is the core how they do security and for the united states it is a security issue that the american public feels subdivided. i came up with five things that i believe it could be implemented within a month to get the conversation going. i believe the prohibited items list was necessary necessary, for the public, a good for security 2001 through 2003. but now has about used its

usefulness other than bombs and guns that can take down the plane very quickly kill a lot of people. the amount and time and energy we spend fishing through bags to pull out prohibited items is a waste and drives the officers to focus on things that are and not a security rest -- a security risk. the prohibited items i would say it allows officers to focus on explosives and people and behavior. talking about the liquid scanner the machines in the

airport today will if loaded with software that does exist can identify threat the line but then make the choice open to the public. nephew want the the quids and take it out, i'd do it. if you don't, i do the bag the. but having more tauruses is credibility. you say that will clog things up but i say you did not read suggestion number one. fix that then domains become

e a terrorist, a trade kraft, pay for performance, baggage these. it sounds like a throw away. but today they pay the fees to the tsa. i bet did you told the airlines you know, longer have to pay a fee or any any, adjuster not encourage passengers to bring on sell much carry-on you would save so much money you have a better security result so

that is a security issue. it is called the in the checkpoints making it more difficult. the fourth for the fifth thing is random we have that with every security regime even at the bank put that allows you to choose from a much broader spectrum that is not one size fits all but possibilities that you randomize. give ben tsa has the ability to look at reservations 72 have the security answer ahead of time and corrected

into the boarding pass. that would get the public on your side. the biggest mistake. >> what you would do differently? >> it is harder to get rid of the of one sayre started. >> those will find this shocking i think i was too tentative and i should have just gone with it to get rid of all -- privity items. i went back with scissors and my head was handed to me. we bet they to aback with lighters. then i a lost my enthusiasm

one by one of prohibited items. secretary chertoff who believes in risk-based security it is possible he may have gone ahead with that. i was there 3-1/2 years switches longer than anyone else but you cannot make the changes that period time. i am sorry but there should be a 10 year term to let people get comfortable and to get on board i will not administration and in any capacity. thank you. [laughter] >> i think of a genuine law-enforcement agency but you have ruled books look at the military what they learned the hard way men and

women had to die to learn new have to push decisions to the front line to define the objectives and that is the men and women and we are nowhere near that concept. >> we were darn close where we took every officer to train them for two full-- to prepare them. where we ran into implementation trouble was once it got to the field in the officers thought i could make a decision then first level management and the third level was what? you let them make the call and i am accountable? it is hard it is a 10 year

project i was two years into answers. >> please identify yourself. >> back to the credibility question with the public is the use of intelligence is tactical when you were there what was the judgment terms to determine at what point* do start to tell the public this is a threat we need to worry? one of the things that seems to happen is make the statements day drop away and then they say we have heard this before. >> that is one of the reasons i wrote the book.

this i was not timid on. 2007 there is a disturbing trend of the al qaeda training with remote-control toy vehicles to bring the bombs on the plane coming from very good sources of setting was the fact it was corroborated with others. not just one training camp but then there was one over here fortunately some guys in south carolina were driving and they have a video with the remote-control toy vehicle and asked if we could get to

a report then we put out the announcement. hello we're looking at remote-control toy vehicles. if you bring one we will not prohibit that look very quickly. have a nice day. [laughter] we did not change regulations but put it out there. that is a great example of what tsa does today to be can affected to the intelligence community to work backwards to say you can use that because normally you know, the odds of making that a public statement but it does have been and the administrator is highly effective.

>> the likud plot although complex you could ultimately change security precautionary measures within 24 hours. >> within four hours. >> completely the ada being you could read calibrate quickly because of the good intelligence sharing with your counterparts. can you talk to that case? >> you were here 2009 now 2012. what took you so long? >> a book does take time.

[laughter] i am deeply indebted to the director of national intelligence the tsa and fbi i worked with them transparently and gave them all of my staff to work through we had one year's worth of debate one by wide going through the examples that i used at the highest to make my case at this it should be known to the public finally the day before thanksgiving last year i get the precious e-mail that says your read the script has been approvedo? by a national intel -- intelligence.

that will be interesting about the book i can pontificate about security measures but connecting it to the real world of classified intelligence gives a better feeling of what tsa is all about. >> and get the better awareness of the challenges facing the community day yen and day out. >> former state department counterterrorism office. i worked with the technical support group realizing a number of generations of detection equipment can you describe the decision to go with the equipment why did tsa go ahead with that although new were versions'

on the horizon? just then -- just in case of cover your ass? [laughter] what were the factors was this science and technology? >> and i was there we've deployed, the previous protocol was to use the body scanners only in secondary screening that you have to alarm the magnetometer before the body scanner. even richard reid could figure out if he went through all of his six closest with nothing metallic in the pocket he

would never see a body scanner. khomeini us that forget to would see one i made a lot of people angry i did not realize this but i said no. we will use of primary that changes the equation because one way took 45 seconds therefore that is not primary the other one took 12 you could work with that it had privacy algorithms that lesley stahl described as those are not pornographic we did not have a problem with the body scanners when i was there but now i think the other

technology has picked up some i did not have issues secretary chertoff went through all carefully to support even the aclu while had concerns preshow them and it really was not a problem. the subsequent use i cannot comment. . .v?

we were concerned about the thing that the carter administration was current -- concerned about. >> i am charlie clark with government executive magazine. a unionization question and went homeland security was set up there was a big fight over wher? the tsa ought to unionize and more recently they have voted to have the opportunity so i was wondering your ideas of how that might impact the incentives of the workers and the ability to innovate? >> that is exactly the issue i have and this gets -- it does performance-basedm pay go out e window in favor of seniority? if? if that is the case, i think we are not going to get where we

need to get in terms of engagement with the public. i think having highly trained, highly engaged with performance metrics and pay based on that is an essential security agreement. i am not sure where tsa is at this point in terms of their progression toward that, but i think it is absolutely critical that the officers, those front-line officers, the u.s. committed personally to the mission as the administrator and whatever we do, union are not union, it needs to preserve that performance basis. >> so you are not saying whether it is more likely they will be committed? >> i am saying that if you are paid on the seniority basis, you are more concerned -- you are very concerned about measures but you are also going to follow the rules so you don't mess up that every so often you get a

pay raise and performance-based makes you realize yeah i have got a lot of stake here not just commissioned that might pay is based on how successful i am. that is the critical thing and there are many opinions about whether you should have unions or not but i think the prime security issue is the motivation of the tsa. >> any other specific questions? please wait for the mic to come. >> my name is greg shaw with george washington university engineering school and you have got a very large operational front-line workforce that interfaces with the public on a daily basis, and in my particular case i probably encountered them 20 to 30 times a year and probably in the past 10 years maybe i've had one incident where i was upset i something.

every other time understanding things went smooth as i expected and it just seems like you're getting beaten up constantly by the grandmother who has to take off -- and anecdotal types of things that occur one and 100 times or one in 1000 times or something like that. i just don't see tsa pushing back real strong, trying to get a more positive message of you know, these successes rather than these isolated failures. >> it is hard to draw a large contingent to hear about your successes etc., whereas in the iphone age, every event can be a viral video. but we have -- ln is here and she was head of public affairs when i was at tsa. ellen allen was nothing if not right back at you when that stuff came in including opposing

video. we propose to checkpoint video to help clarify to the public what actually happened. i think you need to push back and defend the officers. certain amount of that is going to happen but if you change the rules to be ones that are commonly, you know, common sense, i think that takes a lot of the stress out. the officers don't want to be poking you there anymore than you want to have them poking you. so if we clean up the process of what we do at the checkpoints i think we clean up a lot of these crazy things that happen through, either happen or don't happen. >> speaking of the press. >> jay allen formerly with -- a contractor at dhs, public affairs. a lot is mainly focused on the

air travel aspect of tsa. what about especially the other, especially considered very soft targets, rail and bus of those kinds of things. what is your assessment on where we are there right now and where you would like to see it? >> i think it's? stronger thane gets credit for because principally people doing locally and tsa people so you herald a time tsa doesn't care about it. not true. there is a very good relationship particularly on the intel sharing that keeps everybody focused on what seems to be the emerging threats and the viper teams i think are just a great program where they're now doing 20 or 30,000 a year, providing moving random patrols, not random but the look random so if they are not random you get to go and address a threat without people saying, there is

a threat in st. louis or wherever it is. so i think it's stronger perhaps then it looks. the key thing about aviation is the network aspect of it. if you take a plane down you take the network, whereas i think we learned on july 7, 2005, it was back up and running by rush hour that evening and tragedies are tragedies. i think one interesting thing with bin laden, clearly bin laden is all about knocking down planes and it's interesting, not interesting, but i wonder how much of that carries forward in the various dispersal of al qaeda operatives. obviously i don't know that. >> david pieper, emergency services for the university here.

obviously the whole theme of your book and what you have talked about today is how you guys were having to figure out a lot of things as you go and the permanent state of flux and i wonder if that was exacerbated by the fact that the department security itself forming around you, do you think the narrative of the tsa would be historic, would be different if that was housed in transportation or elsewhere in the government? >> it would be different but i don't think in any meaningful way. i think that the energy of creating something new is a very positive thing and so a lot of the energy that was present at dhs was good. certainly, the dhs, tsa, wherever, the energy and the drive and a commitment urgency, all those things i think were more than offset and the actual integration of the operational

units within dhs was much more significant than i ever imagined it would be. and it is a very powerful thing when you are starting to connect those dhs elements together and if you can do it with your state and local communities, then you really really get a strong counterterrorism thing. so the short answer is, i think it ended up in the right place and belongs there. 's be a quick question. just looking and acknowledging that this is a layered defense kind of approach and we need to look at it as system to system. there are no silver bullets or we would have fixed it a long time ago. obviously it needs to be looked at systematically by good intelligence and i think there is one thing we have learned post-9/11 and that is intelligence is the lifeblood for our campaign against

terrorism both the vulnerabilities that can be exploited and to provide vindication in warning to our actors domestically. if you have to choose between technology, people or process, and i realize it is all of the above, work and we have the greatest impact with limited resources in addition to some of the fixes you imagined -- mentioned earlier. is there one area if you had to invest in you could get to that 80/20 tipping in our favor? >> people. i think everybody would answer technology and technology is great, but believe me they look at the patons drawings and they will find out what your machine does, what it is programmed for and they will find something that it's not programmed for. zero cost to them to go to that other area. so technology is an easy answer. i'm from near silicon valley so it's the lifeblood of my section of the country, but all of these

great software, it's probably better than hardware and i think communications technology is probably better than scanning technology. but the people, there is no more advanced technology on earth in the human brain and we have trained 60,000 of them to be out there at checkpoints and money invested to switch the own and make that effective and flexible i think, i think that is where i would go. the see the same in various agencies and departments in those that are more mature and educating, training and also standing up when things go awry where things get a little difficult. we have a question over here. please wait for them i can identify yourself. >> a question and an anecdote as well. the question is about the -- program.

something happened and a lot of databases are -- [inaudible] that will really help in productivity. related to that i think for example security clearance in the u.s. government, there will be a population that there seems to be no interest in the tsa to do that. >> i think tsa is making a strong effort at doing risk-based screenings. my approach to it would be do it for everybody. not frequent flyers, not top top-secret, because what is trust? sergeant bales, how are you going to get that ahead of time? you are not going to find that in a background check. al qaeda requires more than we can do, but you know, drawing a

line that carves out trust and people with major hasan, the issue with clearance. there are ways to bifurcate your population of travelers, but that is not going to be a panacea. i would say fix the system for everybody, and it's because who can you trust more than the next guy and as the israelis will always tell you, it doesn't matter that this person is trusted if they are carrying a bomb they don't know they are carrying. and so that is where the random comes in. so i applaud tsa for working on risk-based security but i think the solutions that i have offered is the better way to go, which is to fix it for everybody. >> you brought up the israelis and there were cases where

spouses, girlfriends and others were unwitting carriers of ieds. but the question that i would have for you is the p word, profiling, and they think that people look at it from a racial perspective. they are behavioral profiles. we do this every single day. can you give a sense of where we stand in that respect and what, if anything, i mean the one concern i have with the israeli approach is, we fly in one hour but they fly in a day if not much more. i don't know the actual numbers. i did at one point, so the scope is just off the charts different. what i would be curious to get some of your thoughts therein may be beyond the israelis, anyone else doing anything really interesting and innovating that we can be learning from?

>> there are more security conscious than anybody so i can't really talk about that but here's the most important thing in my opinion to know about profiling. there are at least two completely separate parts that you can profile based on appearance, young middle eastern male, somebody who looks like a palestinian. that is profiling and israelis do that kind of e-filing. there is a completely separate exercise that is looking for suspicious behavior. nothing to do with what the person looks like, but what are the involuntary muscle movements, what are the things learned from science that indicate a behavior that might be different from what you want, so that you are looking not for terrorists, because what does a terrorist look like? they are not looking for terrorists. you are looking for an anomaly that you want to check out

further. it's a lot easier thing to do and a lot better security result are doing it. the israelis use both, so i would say we already do use the behavior work, and we don't need to do the appearance profiling. if you look at the guy in norway, and you say, if we are all looking for young middle eastern males and that guy in norway walks walks up to your checkpoint, is he going to enter your profile? al qaeda has zero cost to find want them to look like. i think back to the horrifying an infant and was going on a mission to put the bomb in the infant diaper, board the plane. so don't draw a line, young

people, old people, because al qaeda has access to people of all types. so i think behavior is a human characteristic that does work, and should be used, but it keeps getting confused in the united states with profiling and how lumping the two different types together. so i hope that answers your question. >> the travel patterns, known affiliations, which -- >> yeah, so they are doing the full boat which interesting, here is that the cautionary thing. the secure flight program at tsa allows information to comment about travelers up to 72 hours in advance. that is incredible. that gives them a chance to check their watchlist very carefully, to look at who is on

what flight, oh my goodness look at this, there are 15 people that are you know, just signed up for this flight at the last minute, plus another three that were on the watch list. that gives you time to be intelligent about the screening you do. the danger, 10 years down the line, we have all forgotten about the privacy pieces that were built-in. somebody is going to say hey, you realize that this information we can run against this database and we can do that with it, and there would be misuse of privacy issues and then that system would be closed down. if you can just bet congressmen in a heartbeat would close it down. so i think it's very important. the privacy aspects of it are critical to being able to continue to use it for its good intelligence value and for its predictive value.

>> there is a question back here. >> sort of a follow up on the privacy issue you mentioned. what is your opinion, pros and cons of the biometric technology used for tsa weather for screening for dna, facial, boys, fingerprints? >> it's a great business to be in because everybody wants to ford f. -- trust. now that we have issued a biometric what does that entitle you to? particularly the people who have grown up outside of the united states, when you go backs to the breeder documents, good luck, by going to the county and the village and trying to establish the two and rich opportunity to develop your own background before coming here and then getting your goldplated, gold

standard biometric device. so i think that there is a mad rush and certainly when tsa was started, a mad rush to get the twic card's and a mad rush to get the traveler cards and it was all about the biometrics biometrics and biometrics, biometrics and i think we have kind of lost sight of what the bases are. again, silicon valley, god loves you, i'm all for it and it's a good place, but he can seduce you into thinking that you have got a high-tech solution that is impenetrable but you bade not be buying what you think you are buying. you will certainly spend the money, guarantee you will spend the money to buy the system. frank, do you agree with that? >> it's a complex set of issues.

there are certain -- i.d., certain biometric initiatives you see on the battlefield that are known, who are potentially -- that i think are very significant for national security and that should find its way to the broad land homeland security issues. so yeah, i still don't think we have a standard so you still have various pieces roaming around in various ways and it comes back to some of the policy issues. and those are not trivial. i want to give back to how do we get the public engaged and i know this is a tough one. when i look back, this may sound long but perhaps the greatest change was the cockpit doors, locking those cockpit doors. someone trying to reverse engineer and go through the same tack tick but another one is the

general public. if you look at whether it is our bomber in colorado or richard reid, you saw the acts and a baseline then was higher than it was on 9/11 were a think he would have had necessarily the general public acts. so as such, you get the ability to calibrate risk, so i am just not -- i think we are being successful because we have had successful initiatives overseas. i'm not sure that his the only issue but that gets a lot -- lost in a lot of issues. >> guided flight 93, 293, it took three times coming out of the blue and the fourth time the

passengers took it. so yes, clearly and talk about having the public on your side, switched on public to take security seriously in estimable security value and not very expensive to the federal budget. >> how do we communicate? >> i think we have to get their attention and this is something that allen and i worked on when we were at tsa, to try to figure this out and i remember one day they came in and said well, the first thing is you guys about to have got to stop talking about 9/11 because 9/11 has a special place in the heart of every american and they don't need you to tell them about it every day so remember take your shoes off is not reaching its target. and so, it came around to more things. it's about behavior and how to respect the dignity and that was

how you start to get the change in the relationship. that is what i said in those five proposals was, you've got to get their attention back and that institution is getting wider and wider. i think doing these five things will get the conversation going and i think administrator pistole, you've got it, now let's move forward on these other things but that is what most concerns me, is it's gone from the area that it was with us at and 2000, whatever it was, but the tipping point was the november 2010 intrusive pat-down and how that has stayed in place for now a year and a half and now we are at a point where that divide is almost uncrossable. i think when -- we need to act now to make some major changes in tsa security.

>> i think you are right on that and i might note one thing that stuck out with me was immediately after abdulmutallab christmas bombing attempt, there was a survey done and i believe 88% of the general public were demanding technology being deployed. about six months later they did the same thing. boom, 88%. so it's one of things that there has to be a way where you can sustain and do so that doesn't create major to the system. >> i have something to do on line and i think it was six months after abdulmutallab, 300 members of the house of representatives voted to ban screening. is silly to use a secondary

screen. house. abdulmutallab, voted don't -- it's illegal for tsa to use otte scanners and screeners. >> some republicans have proposed more privatization of the tsa checkpoint services. it is already in about 16 airports. do you think that is a good idea? the i think privatization can be change the rules under which we now do it, which is here is the tsa, here is your surcharge, do exactly like the tsa people. it's basically outsourcing people. it's the people outsourcing thing. if you said, american public, american private sector, come back to us and give us an airport security arrangement that is state-of-the-art,

cutting-edge, all the things, i think that would be fantastic. it would start some competition and then it might well be the best answer to have it be privatized. maybe it is the best answer to have a mix of public and private, but i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with privatization. it's just that the rules that we have set up to do it today are such that the benefit is hard to see. i write in the book about the day i came in for the weekend for my sort of inbox mail reading and about two-thirds of the way through is this big old fake documents were it is signed with those little yellow things. and it was a 90 million-dollar contract renewal for the san francisco airport private sector screening. i said whoa, and i started looking in their. where's the performance

incentives? where does it say the cost is going to be reduced? coming? coming from the private sector if i got out of my bosses office with a 15% reduction in expenses a year, you know i'm having a good day. but here it was all about plus-up here, plus-up here, plus-up here and i just sent it back and said i'm not going to sign this thing. i am sorry but i just won't sign it. that is a fundamental problem. there is nothing wrong with the security they do in san francisco or the other privatized airports. it's excellent. the question is -- or the answer is, it's not what the american private sector can come up with if you have them. >> we have time for another question. back here. >> wouldn't it have been fun to be able to say this when i was there? i would have been back in california.

[laughter] >> i'm with icf international. my question following up on what you are discussing, congress and everything, with the budget cuts are you keeping morale up and next-generation technology type thing at its highest levels? >> by getting rid of prohibited items it would make no sense to take away, which were reduced to check.staffing requirements enormously, and an involving the public which would make things go faster. i think there are budget wins all over the place for doing it. i already told you about the baggage. that is a clear winner financially so yes these are hard financial times and national security is important to fund but i believe that we can make some pretty dramatic moves in the budget area to be able to afford security. frank and i were talking about the people and technology. you don't have to ride the latest and greatest and you have

a machine that is out there in every airport today. you don't need to wait another couple of years to buy entirely new machine just to rate the software. we ought to open-source the software so that we can continue to upgrade these perfectly good machines that are maybe a few and up-and-up. unfortunately the producers of these machines would like to sell thousands of them to tsa for millions of dollars and they do not approve of that. if you really went after it, i think you could find some major savings. and that is actually in the >> we have time for one more question. adam please. adam used to be my boss. oh nono, trust me. >> you talked about both of you

relating to international cases so you talk about richard reid. he originated in paris and abdulmutallab originated in any number of places but the last place was amsterdam. so the discussion about security is very much focused on what we do here in the united states but in order to deal with that you kind of need to deal with the source of the problem so my question to you is where do we need to go internationally with respect to some of these challenges? >> here is a little inside scoop. my "wall street journal" article where they tell us how to fix security was really top 10 and it got edited down to the top five. number six was that you take the head of e.u. aviation security and the head of american e.u., responsibility for the e.u. and you give them a 24-hour deadline to say given the same room and

harmonize e.u. and u.s. security protocol, and my witty line was, i would bet you that by lunchtime -- and actually i believe that. marguerite -- mario yasgur to her chagrin took another job and allowed me to use her in the book. now is back as head of security is somebody who knows these issues and the tsa people and international knows these issues and they can solve it like that. and your point is dead on. i know you are throwing for softball and thanks for taking a live question with a softball but all around the world, it's just critical. so i guess the technology too if you put your security such that you're training people, you can do that in countries who can afford the scanners and by metrics and what have you so --y

>> i might note of pnr deal was just agreed to to share information and that was a lotñy more. at the end of the day, i am going to save the last question. what was your proudest moment in the job? >> the proudest moment was on the morning of august 10, 2006, realizing that 50,000 tso's and x thousand air marshals came to work and were told, we have an attack that is potentially underway and we want you to change the way you do your job and when you would done it right now. we had air marshals flying. we covered every flight from the united states back and forth to england, the u.k.. every flight was covered with

large teams of air marshals for quite some period of time. some of the air marshals ran double turns and flight over, flight back and our officers -- it was the highest attendance in this day in the history of tsa for people coming to work. for an extended period after that, it just really showed these people. >> let me also note, what some people don't see is one of the things that i respect most about it, it would reach out to different folks, get ideas. he knew he wasn't going to like what he heard a lot of the time but still made those phonecalls and that is something i think we need to see more of in washington. no one has got all of the answers here at the end of the day. there are lots of answers, lots of ideas and we have to recalibrate our responses and

continue to improve. before i let you go, buy the book, and i also want to leave you with a token iteratively in our appreciation, our point. kip thank you and keep doing what you are doing. >> thanks. [applause] >> for more information visit the author's web site, kip hawley.com. >> to get right into it, i want to set the stage a little bit about the 1930s and to explain that part of what led to world war ii being such a people for the united states were the

policies of franklin roosevelt during the 1930s. to give you some statistics, and i will be brief on those, for instance factory output, the output of an american industry, increased every decade beginning in 1899 for the following 10 years, factory output was up 4.7%. from 190-92-1919 he was up 3.4% every year. from 1918 to 1929, the ring 20s, factory production was up 5.1% each year. but 1929 to 1939, it decreased slightly every single year during the 1930s. so our industrial complex of course by 1939 has aged. it is out of touch with cutting-edge innovations that are going on in europe and elsewhere, and suddenly we are faced with this problem of a

military complex in europe and we don't have anything to compete with them. in the book i mentioned that army chief of staff douglas macarthur at one point testified before congress in 1935, pleading for enough money so that his army would have enough bullets for 100,000 soldiers. we are not talking about stealth bombers or complex weapons here. we are talking literally about even enough bullets to man 100,000 army. and i can certainly understand if you are not for a strong military american presence overseas, which we don't necessarily need, but i do think that a strong defense of america wards off problems. in the 1930s we certainly didn't have that in germany was aware of that and so was japan.

and that leads to a lot of problems. the war of course comes along in -- to the united states in late 1941 and suddenly factories have to be converted. what he going to do? overnight for one thing, they restricted products to consumers. overnight in january of 1942, you could not hide tires for your car. if your tires had been getting a little aged and you thought next week i will run down to sears and roebuck or whatever and get a new set of tires, you're out of luck. the only way you could get another set of tires was to go before the government tire board and prove that you had an essential reason for getting a new set of tires. likewise radios, bicycles, clocks, even clocks, the common american could no longer urges after the spring of 1942. all of those mechanisms were in the war effort. >> you can watch this and other programs on line at

booktv.org. speier is a look at some of the upcoming book fairs and festivals across the country.

>> furthermore, i remain optimistic about the future of indiana and the united states of america. the news media and political leaders spend a great deal of time talking about what is broke and in our country and to some degree that is the nature of their business. but we should also have confidence that the unique american experiment is alive and well and our political system still can work. >> tuesday night longtime indiana republican senator richard lugar lost his primary challenger richard murdoch. look back at senator lugar six term career on the senate floor and hear it including his work in the '90s with senators sam nunn and the nuclear disarmament program in the former soviet union all on line archived and searchable at the c-span2 be a

library. >> you my journey into black panther party started before i became a panther. i think what i would like to do is just to read a little passage from the book and then show you how i happened to walk into the panter office and how that day changed my life. this is chapter 3 in the book. and it's called finding the panther layer. i walked into a panther office in brooklyn on september of 1968. oh wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. i meant to say the best for last but not until the end of the program. is chairman bobby here? chairman bobby seale, founder of the black panther party is in the house. please stand up. [applause]

i knew i was saving that but then i started reading and i was like, you didn't mean to do that until the end of the program. you wanted to let people know that bobby seale was in the house and we will get a chance in q&a to talk to chairman bobby as well. i walked into the panther office in september 1960. dr. king had been assassinated in april of that year. riots in anger fled in the ghettos around the country. the feeling on the street was that it was about to hit the fan. hating was the hip thing to do. from streetcorner speeches to campus rallies, had and gone, gone from being the man to being the piece. young black students were trading in their feel-good motown records with the recorded speeches of malcolm x and the angry jazz recordings. i went down to 120 for fifth street in harlem that night. the night the doctor king was

assassinated. protesters and writers swarmed the streets clashing with cops, overturning cars, setting trashcan fires and hurling books at -- bricks at white owned businesses. looters ran into the stores and started taking clothing, appliances and whatever else they could carry. everyone looted. in fact most of the crowd continued to chant, the king is dead and black power but it was enough for the cops to start swinging clubs and shooting their pistols and making arrests. a cop grabbed me and threw me against the wall. before he could handcuff me and put me into the paddy wagon, group of writers across the street turned the police car over. the cop told me to stay put and brand toward the writers. i was scared, but i wasn't stupid. i took off running in the opposite direction. i blended in with a group of writers and tried to figure out which way to go. a group of cops headed toward

us. some of the writers branded into a clothing store that was being looted. i followed them. the cops entered the store swinging clubs and making arrests. my heart pounded as a ran into the back of the store and found a backdoor leading to an alley. i gasp for air as they ran down the alley and was stopped by a wooden fence. the cops came into the alley. hault they yelled, put your hands up. in my mind, i froze, put my hands in the air and turned around to face the cops with tears in my eyes. but my body kept running. i grabbed the fence and scurried over the top like a scared alleycat. two shots rang out, one split the wood on the fence and this gave me the fear and adrenaline push i needed to flip over the fence in pick myself up off the ground and scramble out of the alley. when i turned out, kept running right past to other cops who tried to grab me. but i the way. turning the corner i almost collided with a group of 20 or so black men in leather coats

and army fatigue jackets wearing afros and arrays, standing on the corner in the military like formation. stopped running young brother one of the men with the tinted glasses said. don't get give me an excuse to gun you down. i doubled over, trying to catch my breath. i didn't know this man but his voice sounded like a life raft of confidence in a sea of chaos. while it's later to ran around the corner. they stopped in their tracks when they saw the militant man. the men close ranks around me. what are you doing one of the cops demanded? the black man was tinted glasses did not flinch. we are exercising our constitutional rights of free assembly, making sure no innocent people get killed out here tonight. we are chasing looters the cop reported. no looters here and as you can see we are disciplined community patrol. you have guns the cop asked with

a tinge of fear in his voice? that is what you said the man with the tinted glasses replied. i said we were exercising our constitutional rights. the cops looks at the size and is the one of the group for a moment and walked away. by the time i caught my breath i was speechless. but by that time i caught my breath, but i was speechless from what i had just seen. black man standing down the cops. go straight home young brother the man with the tinted glasses said. they are looking for an excuse to murder black folks tonight. with that, the black man walked on. i scooted down to the subway and headed home. when i entered the apartment, nooni, grandma was sitting on the couch watching images of dr. king on tv. tears fell from her eyes. she didn't even ask where i had been. which was unusual since i was two hours late getting home. i sat next to her, put my arm around her and we watched tv reports of the assassination and

the riots. i came to school the next day. before that i just want to say a little bit about nooni, who is my adoptive grandmother. i was conceived in cuba and my mother was a graduate student. and broke up with my father, came home and announced to my grandmother that she was pregnant but she had broken up with a guy. my grandmother pressed her a little bit more about who the father was and when she found out that he was a young revolutionary hanging around with the likes of fidel and raul castro, mom got her on the first plane smoking to new york. and in cuba she had been a deputize, graduate student and was on her way to being a doctor but when she showed up in new york city she was young black woman who could not speak english. she spoke spanish and she spoke french. a friend told her about a loving

place where they took in foster kids. she put me there or what she thought would be a temporary stay but it wound up being my early childhood and my adolescent home. nooni grandma and papa took me and when they were quite old, and their parents and their older brothers and sisters had been slaves. so i grew up hearing stories about an america and about a south where you didn't look a white person in the eye if you were black coming down the street. in fact it they were on the sidewalk, you got into the gutter, no matter if it was raining, muddy, how old you were, the sidewalk belong to them. i heard about the klan and about lynching and about jim crow. they saw cross burnings. with that though they were working-class people. nooni worked as a domestic and

papa worked as a laborer. they had been mccarthyites in the 20s and they joined the naacp. i was active in in the naacp youth council. i was an honor student and i was in the choir. at a sense of what was going on. we collected food to send to the civil rights workers in the south and distributing that stuff to the communities. pot died when i was 12 years old so was just me and nooni. it was this thing up wanting to be a man, figuring that out in an dr. king got killed. i was enraged and angry. the day after this i went to school and on the fringes you know, on television you would see stokely carmichael and you would see h. rab round and you would see bobby seale and huey newton and the news described them as the black militant. core stokely was talking about lack power. i want to back up and talk about

power because all of my lessons in black history, don't want you to think it was over the dinner table with books spread out. pot was a working man and he was a good man and he was what they called in those days a race man. a lot of my lessons would be as simple as we were watching television, the old black-and-white tv and a tarzan movie would come on. johnny weismuller would swing across the screen doing the tarzan yell and he would speak his language and alliance would go in and i'll offense would go here and the elephants would go there and after about five minutes he would go like, what the hell is that? [laughter] you tell me how when the hell a cracker baby can fall out of an airplane and grow up. they look like they are crazy. boy, change the channel. it was living history. then i would switch and i remember the first time seeing a young harry reisner. he was giving some editorial.

i think it was about the space program. he was going on and on and being very educated and a bright young white man. pa looked at him and said he is a lying onion head cracker. change the channel, boy. so living history. i could use that stuff in the school year. when the militants came on not only were they challenging this power structure in a different way, in a way that we hadn't seen in the movement, they were fly about it. stokely was talking about black power but i remember one news report where h. rab round got arrested for possession of a rifle in louisiana. they covered him getting out of jail. he was standing on the courthouse steps. he had all the reporters gathered up and he said i want you to listen. if you thought my rifle was bad wait until you see my atom bomb. he was crazy, he was bad.

i went to school the next day and announced to my friends, and i was a hallway monitor and i announced to them you know, as clear as day that i've, eddie joseph, and going to be a black militant. one of my friends, one of my good friends, jewish kid looked up at me and said eddie, i don't know if you should announce you are going to be a black militant like it's a career choice, like you are going to be a doctor or a lawyer. no paul, you watch. i had as much to prove sapolis to myself and all the anger i was feeling. the most militant organization on the scene and believe me i didn't really know what was going on. so there would be reasons you know, to look at an organization and rejected just on the surface level like a black muslim. grandma makes a mean begin so i can't -- i know paul and them can have

that and then they ran a news report talking about the rising militancy in america. and it was a story about the black panther party. they ran it were the panthers led by chairman bobby stormed the state capitol of sacramento, and for folks who don't know, the panthers started patrolling the streets of oakland california with shotguns, forcing one of the aspects of the 10.program and i want to get to that later. that caught the imagination not only of the community of america because it was legal to carry guns in america. the law books wanted to make it clear that bobby and the other panthers who joined understood the law and the right to bear arms and to observe the arrest. they would bail them out if they had the money. if not there were legal

volunteers to help get the people out. i have seen these black men with guns. california responded by saying you can carry weapons if they are not concealed. we wrote that wall -- law. they quickly wanted to change the laws in the panthers responded by storming the hearings in sacramento and it made national news. i'm looking at grandma's black-and-white tv seeing the panthers torn the legislature going like, they are crazy. they have got guns and the powerful light legislatures, white men are ducking under their seats for cover. than the panthers come out and chairman bobby reads the statement about the constitutional right to bear arms and that we have to defend ourselves because of the police are not defending us like the occupier community. than a reporter says, the militant black panther party, he stopped the car and found communist literature in the trunk.

i said, they have got guns in the man said they were communists. i am joining that one. because you are a kid and you want to be with the roughest and toughest. >> you can watch this and other programs on line at the tv.org. >> here are some of the top-selling nonfiction titles at independent bookstores around the country. according to indiebound.org. this list reflects sales as of may 9.

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