people will be around. >> amy schatz, what else do you see out there? >> i think another one that is going to be fascinating to watch is we are still waiting for the supreme court to decide whether the fcc has the authority the and in the meantime we have had six or seven years now of complaints that have been piling up over there since they haven't been able to act on them. >> why? >> because the legal authority is a challenge and so the basis for what they were going to be doing the foundation of it has been challenged by the broadcasters who were upset with the former chairman and as the sort of dream of what they consider terror they would oppose and we haven't seen any decency for several years now as we are expecting the court to rule any monday now on and so that will be one of the things particularly with commissioner rosenworcel because both of her former bosses were very, very

hard core in their belief that they should be to restrict about how they enforce and commissioner copps is very strong on this owls is chairman rockefeller and we really don't know how she comes down on that stuff so i will be really fascinating. ..

>> the supreme court upheld that approach did i think there has been a fair amount of reliance on it, but i think the ultimate decision will depend upon the findings of the dc circuit, and i would certainly agree to a highside op. >> senator, i have some concerns about reclassification to the extent that the imposition of those types of carrier regulations might dampen economic investment is a willingness to take risks and that is something that ultimately might harm consumers. to that extent, i would be hesitant, especially if it came as hypothetical in the wake of appealing decisions that it lacks authority elsewhere.

>> that is the biggest issue that we are facing next year. we are still ready for the dc circuit, but when we do, and if they come down and say that, you know, involving contexts and the sec's rules, the sec is in a real bind. the whole basis of the rules are based on title i. if that gets passed, they will have to gorder title ii. hopefully we understand the audience will understand this, but this brings a lot of regulations on top of broadening providers that they don't want. >> you mentioned earlier that this is an election year. is anything going to happen? does this have to happen? >> not necessarily, although, i think you'll see a lot of private companies arguing and

continuing to argue that the sec does not have authority. one thing that i find interesting, jessica's answer is not to say that i do not think that we need to reclassify, she is saying that this accent i feel pretty good. the like amy said, it's title i is passed out or the fcc would have to decide, she is not saying that she disagrees necessarily. he is saying that he does disagree, that he is upset at the courts. her thinking amongst much more with the chairman office, which is going back and forth good we do think, we don't think, were not sure, it is unclear could they don't want to do something that is that controversial at

this point. >> i think, too, one thing you would say about jessica, she definitely has a strong point of view on things. on neutrality, even when she was a stockbroker, she was one of the people behind the scenes was arguing to get a commission on that neutrality and pull for the merger could this is one where i think she would be very strongly -- that she would at least explore that. >> final question. the five commissioners now imported them, how is this going to change the dynamic within the commission itself? they have had this small group, now they are going to add two more, more staff, more opinions, more meetings this is going to slow down the process? >> i don't think so. i think you're just going to see a continuation of the point of views that come from the different parties.

it will be democrat dominated, and you're going to continue to see that there are no outliers among the current commissioners. the ones that are coming in, they don't seem like they are outliers as well. they have strong opinions outside their parties. i think you will see a continuation of things. in terms of slowing things down, some might argue that things have not been particularly fast now. there's not much to slow. i don't think you're going to see a lot of change. >> i think that ron mcdonald might feel a little less alone. he will have friends, but they will be together -- i would imagine they're going to be a very unified voting bloc. the interesting thing would be you will have the chairman and probably mr. clyburn on one side and the others -- the commission will be in the middle and it will be a swing vote and it will make it interesting thing. >> thank you both for coming over and helping us to get to

know these nominees a little bit better. they should be in office by the time this communicators airs. >> fbi director robert mueller told congress last week that some of the surveillance provisions which are set to expire at the end of the year, are essential in stopping terrorists from attacking the u.s. that is next on c-span 2. after that come at a preview of next week's nato summit in chicago. >> on "washington journal" tomorrow morning, we will look at a lawsuit by the group common cause, challenging the constitutionality of the senate's filibuster rules. our guest is the group's president and ceo, bob edgar. marsha blackburn of tennessee, will discuss bank and finance regulations and we will be joined by alan uk, the author of the book buying america back.

about how individuals can affect manufacturing and trade. "washington journal" is live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> reading has become, over the last 200 years, the ultimate democratic act of the ultimate democratic country. it makes it possible for the many to teach for themselves what if you once held close. the president can quote mark twain because he has read huckleberry finn, and the postman can understand the context because he is read huckleberry finn two. the demagoguery, although still possible, will require a lot more svelte than cleverness. but careful reading of books and newspapers and now material on the internet, their flows are revealed to ordinary people. it wasn't for nothing that the nazi made bonfires a book. >> in 1992, annie quinlan won a pulitzer prize for her columns on a wide range of political

topics. in a few weeks, you can talk to the best-selling author on sunday, june 3, on c-span 2's in-depth. you head start by watching some of her other comments over the years online at the c-span video library on her writing, beliefs and convictions, on her life in journalism. all archived and searchable at c-span c-span.org/library. fbi director robert mueller testified last week about the expiring provisions known as fisa. he was asked about the recent plot involving explosives on a u.s. bound flights. the house judiciary committee is chaired by representative lamar smith of texas. this is just over two hours. >> the judiciary committee will come to order and we welcome

everyone, particularly the director of the fbi to this oversight seeing. director, let me say that considering that we will voting until 12:30 a.m. last night, this is a pretty good turnout for this morning. i recognize myself for an opening statement, and then the ranking member and then we will proceed with our questions. again, welcome director mueller to today's oversight hearing of the fbi. when director mueller was just in front of this hearing a year ago, we all believed it would be his last hearing before the house judiciary committee as fbi director, because his tenure term was set to expire on september 4, 2011. but because of the changes of leadership from the department of defense and the central intelligence agency, the president requested and congress pass a law to allow him to be renominated and serve an additional two years. director mueller received his vote of confidence because he has led the fbi with integrity and skill are some of the most difficult and important years in america's history. director mueller became fbi director only days before september 11 terrorist attacks.

as the first fbi director of the post- september 11 era, director mueller led a trans woman of the agency. he oversaw rapid expansion of the counterterrorism and still continues his traditional focus on investigating federal crimes. under his leadership, the fbi has stopped dozens of terrorist plots and remained vigilant against the threat of al qaeda and like-minded groups. this threat does not end with the death of osama bin laden. just this week, we learned that al qaeda leaders planned to detonate a bomb in a u.s. bound jet around the anniversary of the modern set. fortunately, american intelligence and cooperation with foreign allies cooperated to prevent the attack. the fbi has also brought inside traders and doctors who defraud medicare and countless other criminals to justice. a strong leader of the helm of the fbi is critical to our national security.

so our strong laws that help investigators and judicious officials keep our nation safe. the fisa amendment act of 2008 is scheduled to expire at the end of this year unless congress acts to reauthorize it. this law gives the intelligence community the tools it needs to determine who terrorists community with, what they say, and what they may be planning. fisa strikes a balance as it allows the fbi to acquire intelligence information about foreign terrorists abroad, while preserving and protecting the civil liberties of american citizens no matter where they are. i hope to hear director mueller's views on how fisa has furthered the efforts to protect americans and whether we can improve this law. again, let me conclude by saying that we appreciate director mueller's many years of public service, he has been an outstanding director of the fbi and america is safer and better because of his tenure.

that concludes my opening statement. i will recognize the gentleman from michigan, the ranking member tom mr. conyers. >> thank you, chairman smith. i join you in declaring director mueller a true patriot and one committed to the rule of law and the constitution. i join in supporting the extension of his term. now, when i first came to the house judiciary committee, the director of the fbi was j. edgar hoover. it reminds me that we talk about and think about the transition and changes that have gone on in law enforcement, and in the fbi

in particular, so that we are looking at how we make the criminal justice system fair, make it work better, and protect our citizens more. i hope that in the course of our discussions this morning, we get to several considerations that are on my mind as we begin this particular hearing. one is over incarceration. we put more people in prison than any other country on the planet.

with less successful results, i might add. i mean to engage you in that issue, and of course, when we talk to each other, i am also talking to my colleagues as well. these are subject matter is that we need to examine when the head of the fbi is a matter of witness. the other problem that i have to bring up, is what effect is our overconcentration on counterterrorism efforts -- how has that hindered or affected the fight against crime inside the u.s., violence, murders,

other issues that do not fall into the terrorist category. the other matter is the so-called ryan budget. which calls for four and a half fewer thousand agents in 2014. that is something that i think we ought to try to have candid public discussions about as well i include the diversion program and treatment program for less serious offenses. it is something that we might want to be looking at, at the federal level and state level as

well. i am sorry to bring up the materials used by the fbi, before your tenure, i believe, i know it was painting muslims as violent. it was likely to be terrorist sympathizers. followers of a cult leader. the fact that this created great consternation, not only in law enforcement and their community, but the muslim american community, but also among author thinking americans as well.

among all fair thinking americans as well. washington did a report on flawed forensic fbi laboratories, in instances where prosecutors have failed to notify defendants and their lawyers, when they knew that the evidence was flawed. hundreds of defendants remain incarcerated at this moment because fbi hair and fiber experts may in some cases have misidentified them as suspects. these are the issues they're that are on my mind as we meet this morning, and i welcome your presence here today. i think the chairman. >> thank you mr. conyers. our only witness is federal

bureau of investigation director robert s. mueller the third. he has held that position since 2001. he was nominated by the barack obama and nominated for an additional two-year term. director mueller has a long and honorable record of public service. after graduating from princeton and receiving a master's degree from new york university, director mueller listed as a marine in vietnam. he received a bronze star, two navy medals, the purple heart, and the vietnamese cross of gallantry. after his military service, he received his law degree from the university of virginia. early in his legal career, he served as a prosecutor in the united states attorneys offices of san francisco and boston. after working as a partner in the boston law firm, director mueller return to the justice department in 1989 as an assistant to the attorney general and later as the head of the criminal division.

in 1998, director mueller was named the united states attorney in san francisco, a position he held until 2001 when he was nominated to be director of the fbi. director mueller, once again, we welcome you today. we look forward to your statement. if you will please proceed. good morning and thank you, chairman smith, ranking member conyers and members of the committee. i do want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee today. i think you for your continued support of the men and women of the fbi. as you know and have pointed out, the bureau has undergone unprecedented change in recent years, since the attacks of september 11, we have refocused efforts to address and prevent emerging terrorist threats. the terrorist threat is more diverse than it was 10 years ago, but today, we in the fbi, are better prepared to meet that threat. we also face increasingly complex threats to our nation's

cybersecurity. nations state actors, criminal groups, and hackers for hire are stealing trade secrets and valuable research from america's companies, universities and government agencies. and of course, national security is not our only concern. as we remain committed to our credible programs. in the economic arena, billion-dollar investment fraud, health care fraud, and mortgage fraud, have undermined the world's finance financial systems, homeowners and taxpayers. while primates may be down, gang violence plagues many neighborhoods and their communities continue to confront violent crimes against children and transnational organized crime. as national security and criminal threats continue to evolve, the fbi continues to prevent those threats before they occur. in doing so, we in the bureau are relying on law enforcement and private sector partners more than ever before.

throughout these efforts, the fbi remains committed to carrying out our mission, while protecting the civil liberties of the citizens we serve. let me begin with the threat from terrorism, which remains our top priority. al qaeda is decentralized, but the group is committed to high-profile attacks against the west, as we confirm from the documents seized from osama bin laden a year ago. meanwhile, al qaeda affiliates, especially al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, represent the top counterterrorism threat to the nation. they have attempted several attacks on the united states, including the failed christmas bombing and the bombing of cargo planes in 2010. and of course, we are currently exploiting an ied sees overseas which is similar to devices used by aqap in the past.

we also remain concerned about the threat from homegrown violent extremist. these individuals have no typical profile, and they have expenses and motives that are not distinct, which makes them difficult to find and stop. these cases illustrate why we must continue to enhance our intelligence capabilities and to share information to make sure that the critical information to the right people before any harm is done. let me turn next to counterintelligence. while we still confront traditional espionage, today's spies are also students, researchers, business people, or operators of front companies. they seek not only state secrets, but also trade secrets, and an intellectual property, information from government businesses and american universities. we are all seeing a growing insider threat, where and please use their legitimate access to seek secrets for the benefit of another company or country.

turning to cyber and the counterintelligence threat, is now merging with the cyberthreat. today, so much sensitive data is stored on computer networks. our adversaries often find it effective or even more effective to steal secrets through cyberintrusions. the cyberthreat has evolved significantly over the past decade. the threat ranges from nationstate to seek to exploit weaknesses in our computer networks, to hackers that seek information for an sale to the highest bidder, and there are also hackers and hacker groups intent on pioneering their own forms of digital anarchy. we, in the bureau, have built up substantial expertise to address these threats at home and abroad. we have cybersquads in each of our field offices with more than 1000 specially trained agents, analysts, and forensic specialists. we have 63 officers that cover

the globe and assist in addressing the threat. in addition, the national cyberinvestigative joint task force brings together 20 law enforcement military, and intelligence agencies to stop current and predict future attacks. with our partners at dhs, cia, nsa, and the secret service, we are together targeting cyberthreats facing our nation. next, let me address our efforts to combat financial crimes. the fbi and its partners continue to focus on the most egregious offenders of mortgage fraud. at the end of last year, the fbi had nearly 2600 mortgage fraud investigations nationwide and a majority of these cases included losses greater than $1 million. over the past four years, we have nearly tripled the number of special agents investigating mortgage fraud, and working with our federal and state law enforcement partners, our agents

and analysts are using intelligence, surveillance, computer analysis and undercover operations to find the key players behind large-scale mortgage fraud. turning to health care fraud, health care spending currently makes up about 18% of our nation's total economy. which presents an attractive target for criminals, so much so, that we lose tens of billions of dollars each year to health care fraud. as announced last week, the fbi, the justice department continue to bring record number of cases involving hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud. since their inception in march 2007, medicare fraud strikeforce operations in nine locations have charged more than 1300 defendants who collectively or falsely billed the medicare program for more than $4 billion. crime on our streets remain as much of a threat to our overall security as terrorism espionage or cybercrime.

most recent uniform crime reports indicate that violent crime continues to fall. as we all know, this does not represent every community. some cities and towns across the nation, violent crime, including dating activity, poses a real problem. we also continue to confront organized crime. today's organized crime is run by sophisticated people, that run million-dollar scenes, everything from human trafficking to health care fraud and from computer intrusions to intellectual property that. the international cost of transnational crime is estimated to be in the tens of billions of dollars. therefore, the fbi remains bulletin in its efforts to keep children safe and stop child predators. to our partners with state, local, and international law

enforcement, we are able to investigate crimes across legal, geographical, and jurisdictional boundaries. for our child abduction rapid deployment teams, the innocence lost national initiative, victim assistance, and numerous community outreach programs, the fbi and its partners are working to make the world a safer place for our children. chairman smith and ranking ranking member conyers, to give her the opportunity to discuss the fbi's priorities and the state state of the bureau as it stands today. for transformation, the fbi has achieved over the last 10 years, would not have been possible without the support of commerce and the american people. i think you for the opportunity to appear here today, and i'm happy to answer any questions you have today. >> thank you, director mueller. i mentioned in my opening statement the fact that the fisa

amendments are going to expire at the end of this year could just quickly, how important is it that we continue those fisa amendments, and should we seek to improve them or improve that act in any way? >> well, mr. chairman, we have seen in the last several days, particularly with regard to the ied which was recently recovered, that terrorism should be -- is and should be indicated as our number one priority and the number one priority at in the november of our intelligence agencies. the amendment is up for passage again, reenactment at the end of this year is absolutely essential. in our efforts to address this threat had not only us, the fbi, the access to information that enables us to identify persons both within the united states, but also outside the united

states that would hurt us, but also our intelligence agencies to operate overseas tupelo misinformation under the supervision of court, so that we can put together the information we need to prevent attacks. it is essential and remains a central. >> i appreciate that. if you can think of any way that we can improve it and get that information to us in the next couple of months, that would be helpful as well. let me go to the next subject, which is the drug trafficking crisis that we have along our southern border. and i know that you are as much aware of that as anyone. just as an example, last week over one night, there were 23 people killed in laredo, directly across the border from laredo, texas. to say these people were killed is a euphemism. most of these people were mutilated and tortured before they die. the problem, if anything, is perhaps getting worse, but i just want to get your feeling about what he could do in this

country to address the drug trafficking problem that we have along our southern border, and what more the fbi might be doing inouye. >> our focus is in several areas. first of all, public corruption. we have a number of squads and tax forces addressing public corruption on our side of the border as a result of drug trafficking occurring south of the border. secondly, we have taskforces addressing kidnappings across the border and task forces with federal and state law enforcement to address that particular phenomenon, which has, i would say, decreased somewhat in the last couple of years. lastly, and most importantly, the accumulation of intelligence that can help our partners south of the border.

we have a number of offices along the border, and we have a focus back at headquarters. our efforts have been to consolidate that intelligence, make it available and integrated with the intelligence developed by others, and then, in appropriate circumstances, pass that intelligence on to our counterparts south of the border. >> director mueller, one of the fastest-growing crimes in america is a child pronography in the last 10 years. what can the fbi do to address this horrible crime, which points to the least innocent among us as being the primary victims? >> we have a number of agents that work both with themselves but -- by themselves, in

particular, under convert operations on the internet and taskforces across the country with state and local law enforcement. we also have a task force in maryland, an international task force will be where we rotate individuals from various countries to help us address the purveyors of child pronography wherever they may be in the world. on the one hand, the growth of child pronography is on the rise, but we have developed tools to put this stuff -- and making are investigations more fundamental. coupled with the growth of interception would our counterparts overseas, because this is a worldwide problem, not just the united states, and to have any impact whatsoever, we have to have a global reach. >> okay. thank you, director, my time is

up and the gentleman from michigan is recognized. >> thank you very much, chairman smith. we have at least three points that i made in my opening statement i would like to review with you. they are the over criminalization that has been a custom inside the criminal justice system in america, in which we put away more of our citizens than any other country on earth and for longer periods of time. the second thing is the prejudicial moslem materials that were pulled from the fbi.

the third issue is the fbi lab forensic work that sent a lot of people to prison, many of who are still there. could you take your time and lets go through these together? >> the first one is the the point you make about over incarceration. i do believe any discussion of that, with regard to particular crimes with incarceration, it's difficult to generalize -- or to reach some sort of understanding will make progress with that generalization. i will say that their are some areas in which there needs to be, in my mind, harsher penalties. we are going into the cyberrina in the next number of years, and it should be substantial penalties for those persons who

abuse their capabilities in the cyberarena. let me talk like that about counterterrorism training issues that you have raised. last summer, he came to our attention that there were materials in certain -- certain training materials were being used in bad taste. it also depicted stereotypes internally and externally. we put together of experts from within the bureau and other agencies, and the government. persons with substantial credentials in places like yale, princeton, johns hopkins, to review materials and put together a touchstone document of what should be taught. we then understand that we need

a review of this. we pulled together 30 personnel agents and reviewed the materials. we reviewed everything since 2001. we went over 150,000 documents and a thousand videos of the training and found that there are 876 documents that were inappropriate. and we have removed those from our training. what it also showed us, is that we had to put into place a screening mechanism to assure that our agents and analysts and personnel receive the best possible training in addressing subjects such as terrorism. and terrorists and the various ways -- whether it be domestic or international terrorist, we need to give our people top flight training. it showed us that we did have to put into place, not only in this area, but others, that we have

to have training that comports with what we expect. going to the last subject, and this was the hair analysis, as you pointed out, i think -- there is a report done back in 2004 following a study of certain examiners at the laboratory. one of those was a hair and fiber examiner. the other examiners who may have conducted those examinations prior to 1996, was not part of that review. in 1996, we started using mitochondrial dna along with hair and fiber analysis, and that changed the ballgame, so to speak. but we are talking now with the department of justice in terms of how we go back to universal cases that we wish to review that determine whether or not examiners in cases prior to

1996, may have overstated the importance of the impact of their hair analysis. as i say, we are working with the department of justice to see what kind of review could be taken. >> as you know, there are some people that i think are still incarcerated on the basis of some of those reports. >> we have seen in the government has, and the district of columbia has come at a couple of cases where dna indicated that the analysis was done -- but hair and fiber was wrong. we want to make certain that we follow up on those classifications. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. conyers. the gentleman is recognized. >> thank you mr. chairman. first of all, i want to associate myself with the words of compliments towards you and the ranking member spoke towards mr. mueller. you have been an outstanding

director of the fbi. it is good to have you on the hill today. in your recent testimony on the fbi's fiscal year 2013 budget request, you made reference to criminal threats that were receiving heightened focused, ranging from white-collar crime and health care fraud to organized crime and gang violence. part of that heightened focus requires putting more special agents onto these cases. help me, mr. mueller, if you will, reconcile the need for more agents to address these important criminal threats on the one hand, with federal employee pay and hiring freezes on the other. have you, mr. mueller, considered asking on behalf of the fbi, considered asking congress to exempt federal law enforcement officers from these actions?

much like the president did with the military. >> there are two areas which i guess i should focus. the first is on the 2013 budget that has gone through congress, at least the initial stages in congress, at this point. without budget, we do not face those kinds of losses that you are contemplating. if sequestration occurs, then it is a different ballgame. and we would be seeking to put ourselves in the same sense or status as the military. i do believe that when it comes to the work that we do in the national purity arena, whether it be counterterrorism, counterintelligence, espionage, or the cyberarena, the work that we do in contributing to national security, not to mention other crimes that you

have alluded to, organized crime, health care fraud and the like, the nation can not afford for us to lose a substantial number of agents. we have had to, since september 11, prioritize and make certain that all of our persons focus on the most important priorities. and that is that we do some things to make sure that we do prioritize in order to stop terrorist attacks, stop cyberintruders, and to lock out organized criminals and child predators and the like. as i say, my hope would be that we would do as well, if not better than the military when it comes to the budget review. >> i think you for that, mr. mueller. the bipartisan report on the fort hood massacre, the quote was terrorist attacks on u.s. soil since 9/11. they said political correctness

inhibited [inaudible name] superiors, that must've stopped or delayed an attack. could you see why, given that report, why some of us may be concerned, even worried, that materials purge might be an issue of instance of a governmental agency compromising national security under the pressure of political correctness. what can you say, director mueller, to assure us that you appreciate how precious for political correctness can harm and may have harmed our national security efforts. >> i can say, absolutely and with certainty, the bad political correctness played no role in the efforts that we or i undertook -- to make sure that we give the best training tour personnel. it does us no good to have personnel who are trained with

inadequate materials or misguided materials. we have made those 876 pages available with an explanation as to why we thought that they should be -- should not be used in further training. by the same token, i should say we went through 160,000 pages. and out of those 160,000, we only found far less than 1% that were questionable. political correctness had nothing to do. it was done because we want the best possible training for our personnel. >> sir, i did not mean to imply, but i did -- but lisa is exposed. that is my point. mr. chairman, i see the red light is about to eliminate. i yield back my time. >> thank you mr. coburn. gentleman from new york, mr. nappers is recognized. >> thank you, the house is now considering on the floor today the appropriations bill for the

next fiscal year. this includes the fbi. some republicans believe we should not be abiding by the appropriations figures agreed to in the budget control act last year, but that spending should be lower. what would happen across the board funding was cut -- how to handle would you handle that? again, we would have to prioritize. in my opening statement that i provided to the committee, you can see the various threats that we are facing. we would have to cut down. we would have to find some area amongst those priorities were we would have to reduce personnel. but it is very hard to pick when reducing personnel to gang violence, the threat of child pronography -- every one of

those priorities that we have is a substantial priority to the american outlook and security in the united states, but we would have to prioritize. that is what we had to do after september 11. we would have to do it again. >> and if the sequestration that was mandated by the budget control act, if we were allowed to go into effect january 1, how many agents would have to be let go? >> several hundred is not over 1000. i have to get back you on that. >> on agents to have? >> approximately 14,000. >> see her talking eight or 9% maybe? >> may be a little bit less. it would be a substantial, substantial cut. >> let me switch subjects a moment. under the every 2012 presidential policy directive, which implements sexson 1022 of lester's national defense authorization act, the fbi is

given lead authority in all cases with captured suspects ordered those taken into custody with law enforcement. can you tell us how this directive was development -- >> i'm sorry, i only heard the last part of the question. >> as it was developed, will it help or hurt the fbi in its counterterrorism mission? >> i have some initial concerns ndaa in two areas. the first is it with -- where events are fast-moving and would there be confusion with regard to who does what and when. and the directive in my mind was also those issues. it makes it relatively clear

that if we had a terrorism case that fell within the parameters of ndaa, we would continue to work that case in conjunction with the department of defense. i was satisfied with the bill, as well as the directive, as a assuring to us that we'd be able to do her job effectively, given that the directive and statute. >> changes in the statute, i should say. >> okay. and do you recommend any changes when it comes up again this year? >> i would have to look at it and see what was proposed. you asked about the development of the procedures of policy, that was done in a number of working groups where the justice department and department of defense, dhs and the like -- that is how it was developed. >> okay. my next question. last month we passed -- the

house, not the senate -- passed legislation regarding cyberlegislation. from the fbi's perspective, do these bills go far enough -- too far in assisting you and what you need to deal with and the powers that you need to deal with the cybersecurity threat? >> there are a variety of issues with how you address cyberthreats. the bill addresses one aspect of it. that is how you protect the infrastructure and who is going to be involved, not how they are going to be involved. the two areas we will have continuous concern. the first area, is not necessarily addressed in the bills, is the mandatory reporting of substantial cyberincidents, which we believe should be part of statutes at some point in time. the second is the sharing of

intelligence. we saw in the days leading up to september 11, we saw how we were disadvantaged by the inability, in some cases, and cultural insensitivity, in other cases, to sharing intelligence. it is absolutely essential in the cyberarena and in the counterterrorism arena, that the shared somewhat different with the importance of sharing information with the private sector, because often the victims are the private sector. and so, to the extent of those bills address the sharing of intelligence, particularly with us, we are supportive. those are the two issues that we are concerned about, and in any cyberlegislation, whether that which has recently been passed or otherwise. >> thank you. my time has expired. >> the gentleman from virginia, mr. goodlatte. >> thank you, mr. chairman. director mueller, welcome.

director, do you agree that no united states citizen arrested in the united states should be indefinitely detained without all the right rights of due process? what is your interpretation of section 1021 of the national defense authorization act. >> could you repeat the question again? >> the question is whether or not you agree that no united states citizen apprehended, seas, captured, arrested in the united states -- should be indefinitely detained without all the rights of due process provided by our constitution. >> i believe that should be the case. >> so you have concern over the language that is in the national defense authorization act called section 1021, which does not clarify the status of u.s. citizens in that regard? >> i haven't focused on that aspect as much as i have focused on the other aspects of the act.

but i do believe that it gives and affirms the president's authority to make decisions that the president leaves are necessary to thwart a terrorist attack. >> but that might include seizing a u.s. citizen in their home, in chicago, illinois, and detaining them indefinitely without charges. >> i am not certain that is the case, but i have not read the opinions and have not followed the debate. >> we would look forward to work with you to make sure it is clear that u.s. citizens have that protection. we are in the process of working through that here in the congress. let me ask another question. lastly, the fbi arrested five men and in cleveland, ohio, arrested for bombing a bridge. some of these numbers members were members of the occupied cleveland movement. has the fbi seen an increase in

left-wing terrorist activity, and is the occupy movement a breeding ground for terrorism activity? if he is these in the occupied movement see that there demands and not being met, will we see them resort more to this type of violence? >> as to the last aspect, i cannot speculate. i will tell you that because individuals or arrested last week -- i am limited to the complaint that was filed. and the facts that were laid out. the complaint focused on their conduct, not necessarily the conduct of others. >> held out my first question, which was have you seen an increase in this type of left-wing extremist terrorist activity? >> well, i would say -- i wouldn't go with a predicate lest left-wing -- i would say people who have violated the laws in this particular way, we have not seen an increase. it is episodic. >> is ideologically driven without characterizing the

particular ideology? >> these individuals violated the law. that is why they were arrested. >> thank you. in recent years we have seen many reports of confidential and secret government information leaking out and be posted on the internet. the wiki leaks cases are the most prominent example. it also drew attention to foreign students and professors engaging in espionage and intellectual property theft on campuses. when millions of secret documents can be put in a thumb drive on the back pocket, the risk of leaks and espionage threats increase. does the fbi have the tools it needs to protect confidential information in the records that contain much private information about individual citizens and corporate secrets and confidential government security information? do you have the tools they need in the internet era to protect against that? >> let me speak.

i will speak to the protection of the fbi. yes, i can quite obviously say that insiders and hackers from outside -- i believe we have the state-of-the-art capabilities to protect their databases. that does not mean it cannot be done. it is a continuous worry for anybody who heads of any department. but we have taken, and i do believe, the best you have other to ensure the production of our data. often, data is contained in universities or colleges or elsewhere. to the extent that we, as an entity, are working with those institutions, and we, of course, seek to assure that those institutions have up-to-date security to depict whatever they

may have. >> thank you, my time has expired. but with my first question, i would call to your attention legislation that was signed into law by governor mcdonald in my state. it was house bill 1160. it addresses the concern about unlawful seizures of citizens in their homes, it directs that no state agency in virginia can cooperate with the federal agency for the enforcement of that provision in the ndaa. if you could look at that further and respond to the committee with your thoughts about how we can correct this problem and protect our citizens here at the federal level, we would very much welcome it. >> thank you, mr. goodlatte. the gentleman from virginia is recognized. >> mr. mueller, there is not a lot we agree on around here. but your reconfirmation was one of them. i appreciate your service. a few years ago, according to published accounts, united states participated in

waterboarding -- a practice for which there is an international consensus that constitutes torture. what was the fbi participation in that practice? >> none. >> and why was the fbi not participating? >> the guidelines we adopted 10 years ago, preclude our participation. >> and did you issue an order for them not to participate in what is generally perceived to be torture? >> the guidance was, make certain that we follow our guidelines when it comes to interrogation of persons in our custody or the custody of others. >> and so your conscience prevented the fbi from participating in torture, is that right? >> i don't want to characterize.

i can say that our guidelines precluded it and our guidance was to follow the guidelines. >> let me tell you -- that is why you have universal support. because that practice. had the fbi not participated because it didn't follow the guidelines -- one of the problems that we noticed in the early -- right after 9/11, was that the personnel in the fbi and cia may not have reflected the ethnic representation that we needed to appropriately fight terrorism. could you make a brief comment on where you are now, but for the record, submit an ethnic breakdown of the staff at the fbi? >> i can give you some larger figures. 43% of our workforce now are women. a full 25% are representatives of various minority groups.

a greater breakdown, i would have to get you additional figures. [talking over each other] >> we still have work to do. but we continuously strive to have our workforce reflect the communities in which we serve and operate. >> thank you. coming from new york, we talked about the budget and numbers of agents. can you translate that into how it would affect your ability to get the job done? >> as i pointed out, we would have to prioritize, and it would be a question of which priorities, listed in my opening comments, or a more lengthy mission to the committee, we will have to cut back. and cutting back in an age where crime is a global problem in ways it was not 10 years ago -- by that i mean whether the organized crime or cybercrime --

white-collar crime, again, games, and the like -- they are globalized and consequently, that entity has the best chance for addressing globalized criminal activity, it is the fbi. if you cut us from doing this at a point in time when much of the crime is globalized, it is a double hit in some sense. ..

but i will tell you that the guidance is that there's an egregious series of crimes. persons are hurt, injured and we would make an exception to our usual prioritization to help out. >> we have the same problem with consumer ied sefton where it is labor-intensive and we had more agents not cutting agents but increasing agents we could be more effective in dealing with organized retail theft and identity theft. >> we of this year's resources defense of task forces for would

be augmented by state and local law enforcers not just the state law but also the federal wall and there were a bunch more effective utilizing our personal there's rampant crime in these areas for a task force would be on our approach. >> thank you mr. scott to the gentleman from texas is recognized for questions. >> chairman? >> director, welcome back. we were on this setting as pitcher pointed out we've got an additional two years. there's no objection to your having the two years because a was a time the would be continuing the extension in two years so there was nobody else on the floor in the went rather smoothly since nobody knew they were bringing this up.

there are some officers still concerned about the thousands and thousands of years of experience we have lost due to your upper out policy but i want to get to the concerns about the purging of material of training material. we have a document here that points out in the 9/11 commission report there with 322 references to islam and the current fbi counterterrorism lexicon there is zero references to islam and references to jihadists, and we talked before when you were here about the of reach programs that the fbi had to the muslim community. we've done some looking, and apparently in june of 2002, you had given a speech that the american muslim council your

spokesman said was, quote, the most mainstream muslim group in the united states as the american muslim council and the head of the amc was a guy named l. moody. the same year that the board adviser was arrested for murdering a georgia police officer he was arrested himself in 2003 and and a libyan assassination plot on saudi prince later identified by the u.s. treasury as one of al qaeda as top fund-raisers in the u.s.. then there's the 2003, october 2003 the ceremony honoring the deutsch writ muslim leader based upon him you're own directors award for exceptional public service. the fbi contacted telling him he

wasn't going to receive the award, and later when the spokesman said there was unflattering information that had been made public during the deportation proceedings of one of his closest associates, and the ims had the decades to support this guy that was about to get the award he was suspected of supporting the popular liberation palestine and the designated terrorist organization and again the reason i am bringing these up this because we've got people we know there are trees subject matter experts at the department

of homeland security phyllis despite being the subject of the wiretap warrant since the early 1990's and his home was rated in 95. we know that and 08 you had handed one of your directors community leadership awards who testified during the defense witness, and he then served as a moderator during the 2000 fund-raiser for the benevolence foundation which was shut down in 2002 because they were a designated terrorist organization supporting out a al qaeda of all groups. this goes on and on, and i am concerned since there are potentially people of terrorist organizations commit terrorist

ties and as we have seen that the fbi has made these type of mistakes before and trying to judge character we would like to know who the subject matter experts are that are going through the fbi material purging that to the jihadists and islam and these type of things. would you identify those people for russ? >> there's quite a bit in that question. >> some of the background that you are aware of -- >> i couldn't address all that use it. i will say at the outset we have made certain an hour and outraged that we -- of reach of a muslim community in support of americans in the vast majority of muslim americans have been exceptionally -- >> you're not answering my question director. arthu going to identify the

subject matter experts? that's the question. are you going to answer that question? >> let the director respond to the question to the estimate i will, when he answers the question. >> as i was saying, a outreaches important. we make every effort to make certain to the appropriate person with regard to the individuals who refuse the material there are five individuals and we are happy to give you the background and considering the names as we find it important we would hope there would be some confidentiality in doing that but we have nothing to hide in the book. >> so you will identify those? >> the circumstances under which we would identify, yes. >> could we also get the documents that you produced to the terrorists that were convicted in the holy land foundation trial? >> and members congresspersons -- >> i wasn't aware of that.

>> the gentleman's time is expired. >> mr. what? >> thank you, director for being here. you may have noticed i was here for the testimony and then left because we have a hearing going on in the financial services, on which i also serve. i want to spent some time talking about what's going on in the mortgage area. during the time that we were working in the financial-services on what turned out to be the dodd-frank legislation i had a lot of constituents that were saying to me when are some of these people going to be put in jail and mauney response was my primary focus at this point is to try to make sure that we don't have the

same kind of things that led to this financial and economic meltdown that occurred again, so my priorities really not trying to deal with people who got us here but figuring out how to not be the second and third and fourth time. since we have done dodd-frank and i've continued to get a number of increase from people who are saying when it is somebody going to go to jail for all of these things you indicated that you had nearly 2600 mortgage investigations. i guess the question i'm asking, and my constituents are asking me has to do with what of those

investigations led to come and there still seems to be the like of prosecutions and accountability resulting from those investigations. by understand you are not on the prosecution side, you are on the investigative side and the building at of the case side, but can you give us any information about what those 2600 investigations have led to in terms of prosecutions, convictions, work in many of them are still in the prosecution process we might expect going forward on that front? >> i thought i had the figures but i don't have the judges today. i have to give you in the constitution's third been literally thousands of

prosecutions. many multimillion-dollar scams that have been successfully prosecuted with individuals going to jail for tens of years. i was recently in florida, and talked to a group down there and pointed out that several prosecutions, whether the works of individuals and in particular housing complexes who ruled over houses fraudulently for a number of years and if i am not mistaken one of the principles was going to jail for something like 30 years. i will have to get you the facts. >> the would be very helpful to somebody that serves on the financial-services committee in particular we get a lot of increase. i guess we see periodically somebody's been prosecuted going to jail, but if we could get an overall picture of what is happened in number of prosecutions on a nationwide

basis that would allow us to respond more effectively to people who were saying i haven't seen anybody prosecuted were going to jail as a result of this. the second part of that is the higher ups in the hierarchy, the more visible the national prosecution's, how many of those have there been, and how successful have they been to get to some of the people of the higher corporate levels who may have been involved in bringing down the substantial financial institutions ultimately and resulted in the massive housing hamas foreclosure loss of the various kinds. scud there's been a number of prosecutions particularly in new

york could have dominated the newspapers over the last year with inside trading and that type of white collar crime. we've also had a number of securities fraud prosecutions and corporate institutional fraud, and in fact or investigations i believe in the securities arena are of some of 55%, 50, 55% over 2008 and also of almost 40% in the corporate fraud arena. again, i will have to give you a breakdown of the cases and give you some sense of -- >> my time is expired, but i think you would be terry helpful if we could get a broad picture of this, statistical picture not only of your part of it, the investigatory part, but the prosecution and conviction site

side facing the constituents who still are going for the substantial foreclosure and have lost their homes. they want to see some results, and i think there are results, so i appreciate you agreeing to follow-up after the hearing on that. >> thank you. the gentleman from do talk. >> i'm going to try to touch on three subjects i need to move fairly swiftly. on the anniversary of the killing of osama bin laden, was very specific and more credible threat terrorism upon the united states of america? >> we didn't believe so >> it's fair to say that what had been thwarted at the time. >> let me move quickly to fast and furious. have you ever spoken with the

attorney general holder or sector in the public, about the fast and furious case? >> certainly not secretary napolitano. unless you are talking about the killing of raw and carry. if that is a part of the question then obviously is because we are conducting that investigation and the concern how it is going and to get periodic updates. with regards to the white house and furious examination, i don't believe i have. >> people have talked in the department of justice because the news documents -- i do not recall having curious to attorney general's office has called trust and furious itself even though they ran and operated it fundamentally flawed, there are literally close to 2,000 weapons that have been released other than the two guns that were found at the

scene. have you come across any guns that were purposely released by the government under fast and furious? >> they've shown up at any crime scenes and come across any of these guns and anything that's happened here in the united states. >> i would have to check on that. >> if you could get back to me on that i would appreciate it and director if you had a clarification to whether there were two guns or three guns and even the letter we got most recently back to truman issa i think was not as crystal clear as we like to believe. i would ask you to respond to that but -- >> there were two guns there were two guns and there were something to misinterpretations of information on the evidence control sheet that seemed to indicate the possibility of if your gun. >> thank you. i want to move now to the more recent jones case that came

before the supreme court that had to do with gps device is put on the cars so they could be tracked. there's some concern i would guess of law enforcement ruling mind-nothing by the supreme court would change all law enforcement is able to attract. i just want to get your thoughts and perspective on that quickly to get a sense of how many devices and how this would affect what you are doing in the fbi. >> would you pull your microphone gistel but closer. there were 200 investigations where that impacted by the decisions summer over 200 the need for the additional surveillance is where he had the use of the gps device is he didn't have to look to the team of surveillance agents because you know where the indigent will me be at any particular point in

time and that is quinta mean we are going to use very precious, valuable surveillance resources where before we had the electronics capability to monitor individuals. i am aware of efforts i believe in your bill to address the issue and i would say this, looking at the additional review indicates after definition that kind of information the would be protected requires a warrant would expand to thingness such as the telephone records which we have traditionally gotten with the subpoena and the like because they have a geographical indicator in the code and does one thinks of legislation in this arena and try to keep in mind the impact of it have on our ability to do much of the work we do particularly gps

devices and the like contributes to the probable cause that is necessary to conduct the investigation the for their investigation of the techniques. >> the legislation is not to preclude those when you have the probable cause but it's concerned about the ever expanding use of gps to track not just by law enforcement but individuals that sir esters lee want to follow somebody else coming into my time is expired, but i appreciate being able to work with you and i hope you find esters the need to clarify the law based on what justice alito and mr. weinstein has already said about this to further define the promoters of what would be needed so there's clarity for the fbi and other law enforcement moving forward thank you mr. chairman for being here. you have served your country with tremendous distinction and

we are honored by your presence here today. i want to talk about technology and a hyrum error visiting with you and looking at your plan for your new computer systems and i want to know where we are on that it started in 2000 for me and mr. lewis of the case finally spend a lot of money the was abandoned in january of 2005 and in 2006 we spent a lot of money over $425 million that was reese go into 2008 with an additional 26 million but it wasn't finished by the target date in 2009. it was extended again in july of 2010 the second phase had more

problems cotton in september of 2010 the agency announced the plan to have to have the annual methodology with a new target completion date of its of timber which was not with a test that showed problems in the hardware capacity and the baiji at i gave a report in december that the fbi was still determining the cost of the additional hardware and had deleted until may wellcome is may. where are we on this much awaited and extremely expensive system. >> unfortunately i am very aware of that history. i can tell you that it has been one of the most difficult challenges as it has come to a couple of things that points

along the way that were important. first, we received -- we've received the first phase received from the contract the second phase did not work and leave these deutsch as you said the contract to save a heck of a lot of money in the natural development applications the we were using. in september of last year we have the test and we had anticipated as a result of the test that we would put it in place. we found is we had the place of the architecture of the infrastructure in order to support if we have done that now in the final testing phase is this summer we will transfer our databases. >> this summer we are going to hit on this summer? >> maybe we will do is come over

and visit with you again i want to talk about another technology issue in your testimony undergoing weidinger talked about the concern that the communication providers are not required to maintain the to the levees in their networks. especially given the not wonderful experience with your own technology development i think that raises a few concerns. first, the technological capability direct private sector technology firms. second, whether it is your view that the federal government ought to be dictating to the private sector communications firms including internet

providers with their technology ought to become and finally a question as you can guess by my question i have a deep concern of the american public would have a concern about the government building in back doors to the internet because of the we want to get the bad guys we also value the privacy rights of americans online. if you have considered or are aware of the apparent plants of russia and china to take over the governors of the internet which has been engineered driven, multinational but a political since we entered a contract in the mid 90's there's a meeting in october for the u.n. to take it over with perhaps a more politicized agenda and certainly lively less

collaboration with western law in force but have you considered that and have you had a role. >> let me focus on the issue of what i think there has to be an accommodation. we make a showing for the court. it could be as the mosh, it could be distribution of child pornography for the i.t. with a large corporation it tracks the corporation to be responsive to that court order requiring it, and yet these are very wealthy, not considered in the outset how the need to be responsive to a court order. so what we are seeking is responsiveness to a court order in many of these companies they can afford to do it and many of the companies can afford to do

it in the out set understanding they have an obligation to be responsive to the court orders when there is a direct set, so the accommodation that we are looking for is the corporations and their own ways put themselves in a place in a position to be responsive to a court order that they know can anticipate coming down the road. how we do that is an issue that is at the heart of it but it is a very with a communications are not done by the telecommunications company's mrs. olivier done by other companies many of whom are in your district and we have to have an accommodation so that we get the information that we need or else we will be behind when it comes to terms and child a broader fee. islamic mr. chairman, i noted mr. gohmert had an extended period.

islamic i'm a little clause by that. the chairman was initially and occasionally gives members a few extra seconds. i don't want that to mrs. alisa is a precedent and in this case in mr. gohmert so i would like to stay in the schedule if we could petraeus gannet if we could ask to richard -- director's mueller that they are seeking to take over governance of the internet and i think it is something that the fbi might wish to comment but perhaps -- >> that might be for another time. i notice that you and the director have agreed to a personal meeting on some of the issues you raise which are certainly legitimate issues and i am hoping that you will to get in touch of that opportunity. >> i would be happy to. >> the gentleman from , thank you mr. dyer to read glad you are here. unceremoniously i'm going yield my time to my colleague from

texas. >> thank you. appreciate my friend from arizona. i have an e-mail from the geslin society for american director on february 14th, 2012 which they were basically something like the rest biking if it all they had the meeting again with you, and they said the director is also informed participants that today nearly all related fpi training materials including more than 1600 pages of documents reviewed by subject matter experts multiple times. they also said material was pulled from the curriculum if even one component was deemed to include such will curse, to be in poor taste, to be stereotypical or lack precision,

and then we also have one of the lines that has been purged simply says other self described jihad groups can differ with al qaeda and like-minded groups and targeting tactical preference and their ultimate political goal although many of the she heard groups overlap in terms of the target, tactics and goals, and apparently that was found to be offensive to say that there were some jihad groups that overlap in terms of the target because apparently that fits very stereotypical and i want to go back to the subject matter experts. you mentioned as we've been told there were five subject matter experts that were doing this purge and two of them were injured agency, but three of them were outside the agency,

and we know the president of the name co-conspirator in the holy land foundation trial for which there's plenty of evidence as the fifth circuit court of appeals says to substantiate the they were supporting terrorism even though the attorney general decided he didn't want to pursue them or his office he didn't take credit for that decision. but, in fact he left that to an acting u.s. attorney to say that there wasn't evidence when actually he was on the record before the district court in the fifth circuit saying there was plenty of evidence. the concern still goes back to who are the subject matter experts. you were ready to give a couple of awards to people for their civic leadership and assistance that ended up not being worthy of being recognized.

the people have access to you directly like most americans would not have that tough talk is a research unquestionable, so i think as my friends across the ogle points out, america knowing who are these people that are purging or documents, and why is it so offensive to say that many jihad groups overlap in terms of target's and tactics and goals? you have a comment on that? you said they may talk about their background but who in the world gets to know who these people were? most of us had a very secure classifications even though we find out that people on the only advisory citigroup got a secret classification from secretary

napolitano and from the evidence it is very clear that man could have never been a did it could never get the security clearance unless the security by hostile of law and requirements getting that. so i just keep coming back to the importance of knowing who it is that is actually cleaning out the fbi training materials? senate let me say i address the issue on the way for work on the individuals who would try to accommodate the committee on that. with regard to the meeting with the american muslim and arab community i have periodically as to our special agents in charge of our offices have meetings with members and representatives on the muslim community, that referred and i gave exactly the same review of the process we have undertaken to review the materials i've given today for

the testimony. so i think we have done appropriately address the issues with regard to the training again i finished at to the materials yourself and you're the explanation as to why we fought that these particular pages were inappropriate that were freed in training it's not as if we have the gentleman from texas ms. jackson lee is recognized. again, i thank you for the work and the work that you've done even in my state of texas, so i just want to make one statement the special agent in charge.

i encourage them to introduce in the community. obviously their work is you join me in the time is past for them to engage even as they engage in local law enforcement. i too have a series of questions but i would make one statement and not join with my colleagues but thank you for your graciousness and i would like to have an opportunity to meet with you the national epidemic of bullying which we have seen. i'm not asking you to intrude in the local jurisdictions that this labour bullying has become an epidemic as well and it crossed the stage line and tracks if you will the national security issues in terms of its depth and breadth, and so i would like to meet with you on that issue. i will not pose that question as we speak, but i know that we can find ways to address that accept the deals with children.

i do want to raise a series of questions as i indicated and i want to go right to the national defense authorization act and the testimony that mentioned you had questions about the fbi there was provision to the legislation we can that if he will devotee of coverage of the military. can you quickly say does that work for your issues with respect to that separation and i think that is enormously important in putting the prosecution of terrorists and a civilian court. is that where we stand today is that helped the fbi? >> it does, the statute directs the procedures that would assure the continuity of an investigation in the circumstance and the directive issued does resolve those issues. >> those in the view closer to both the idea of what your work is supposed to do but also their

respect for civil liberties as you look at it as a lawyer and former judge? >> yes. >> thank you. let me thank you very much for the last dna lab that many law enforcement submit the request. can you tell me what the time frame is as you well know there is a huge backlog reached kids across america. it's tragic that the women are waiting. what is the involvement of the fbi lab? are you getting these kids on particular cases come on -- can you just answer that question and how we can be of greater help to get back wall clocks >> the first step for us was to reduce the backlog is in terms of suggestion samples given in the statutes of around the

country we reduced that two years ago and last year we've reduced the backlog of the dna examinations and so there was buy additional personnel and given to us by congress as well as developing a new more mechanical technique to expedite those examinations. that doesn't necessarily cultures stations around the country that have backlogs samples. we do not have the funding were the key devotees federally to step in and assist state and local. i don't think there is one of us that wouldn't like to have the ability to make certain that all of those tests, samples sitting on the shelves and the police department somebody went through the dna protocol. but again it is a matter of funding. the police departments were in state agencies. >> let me ask these questions and i appreciate chairman's and oceans to be able to answer.

i would ask to the discussion in office but what me just in your answer indicate what impact it would have in terms of staffing but i would like to go back to the two points. the stand your ground law has taken up the major stand across america and they have in essence created a quandary. one of them of course is mr. zimmerman's case if you have been involved in investigating. i raised the question has what is the fbi involvement of some of the cases that are coming extreme results and lost, i've heard my colleagues talk about muslims. what kind of team does the fbi have on domestic terms particularly what i call the wilderness groups as well as this article for white supremacists that happened today. do you have a separate sector, how do you really to that kind of terrorism and how do we have

the investigative component that matches or complement's state authorities? thank you. estimates with regard to the domestic terrorism ever since 1995 and the bombing of oklahoma city we have been aware that we cannot take our eye of domestic terrorists that have the capability and the will to undertake such terrorist attacks. we have had a number of cases over the years most recent was where an individual undertook the development to settle on the birthday of martin luther king. as you will recall the persons who were cleaning the area and found the ied and we were able to identify the individual sent away for a good long time. so we have separate domestic terrorism feedback as of revet in the international terrorism and arena. i didn't pick up the first part

of the question to the estimate the impact on the sequestration employees for the major cuts. islamic again we have to prioritize. we would not take people away from counterterrorism whether it be domestic terrorism and international terrorism we will not take away from the espionage cases from the important cyber cases. we want to print your ties other areas including the arena that would suffer. >> thank you, ms. jackson lee. >> can i put something in the record, please? i would like to first of all thank you we will speak afterwards but in any event i would like to the article from the white supremacist planning of the race were my guy is unanimous consent to place this in the record. >> the gentleman from california is recognized. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. i in the interest of time i want

to welcome you first of all director mueller i miss our regular meetings in the years i served here on the intelligence committee and it's great to see you back on the concurrences i have four issues i would like to ask you and perhaps you can give me a very short answer and with unanimous consent to can provide us with a follow-up, maybe a couple paragraphs or something that could fill in some of the blanks. the first question has to do with al qaeda and there are two questions i will put into try to make one out of it. first of all as it relates to the southwest border do you see any growing evidence of al qaeda or another terrorist organization working to exploit

border with the intent of launching another terrorist attack? the would be the first part of that question. the author is having to do with al qaeda and the continuing concern particularly in young men -- hegemony it is becoming more and more unsettling to the american travellers as you well know, and if you see any added support he might be all to get from congress to help you in doing the job maybe you could briefly answer that and i will move onto a couple other issues. estimate as to the southwest border in al qaeda, we haven't seen an increase of efforts by al qaeda to come across the southwest border. on the other hand, when you open the question to other terrorist groups, i would say that we have a continuing concern about the

influence of hezbollah. i would say that an indication of this most recently was the arrest of the iranian individual who thought he was dealing with the cartel is as yet and the expectation of killing the saudi arabian ambassador here in washington which is indicative of efforts by iran and others to operate souls of the border with the impact on the border. i'm sorry, the second question with regard to yemen, having attained most recent explosive devices from yemen and again reinforces the necessity to address those responsible for the production of those devices and yemen and the intelligence community come law enforcement community, the full support of congress to make happen.

>> directors mueller comer regarding smuggling and human trafficking that we have on our southern border, no this continues to be an ongoing issue. one thing i would like to get your assessment on particularly as it relates to the struggling to the to smuggling of drugs, do you see the weakening of loss for instance in the california state legislature weakening the drug law some to the point that many legislators believe drug use is a victimless crime do you see this as having any strengthening effect on the drug cartels? >> i wouldn't be in the position to comment on that because i'm not that familiar with that. as to to there is another issue that we've discussed in the past having to do with activities within our federal penitentiary this is of limited to the

federal penitentiary is that since you can speak more darkly to the federal penitentiaries from the estate prisons and even local jails. i have a growing concern for the infiltration of certain people operating under the guide is being clerics to indoctrinate very vulnerable people that are already filled with hate. i know we have a way of fighting who comes into the council and so on and so forth. can you give a brief statement on the process of vetting and or surveillance and make sure that it's correct? >> early on after september 11th we worked closely with the department federal prisons to assure us the appropriate teaching, again appropriate teaching was being conducted

within the federal department of prisons comes of that's been an ongoing process since probably 2002. at the same time, we have over 100 joint terrorism task forces around the country. one of the mandates on the task force is to see and develop intelligence as to what it may be in knott prison system. there are many state and local prison systems and many of the task force is you will have signed on the state and local prison authorities to work closely with of the joint terrorism task force to address that concern. >> mr. chairman, the red light is on. cycas to the director to respond to us and follow up on a couple of issues one being human should the issue of health care fraud to be discussed this before in this then you i think last time

about medicare fraud and prints of the eastern european involvement. if you could bring us up-to-date on that also on the gang at issues in the metropolitan areas where illegal immigrants are the predominant population and the specific gains. with that mr. sherman with unanimous consent a risk that the gentleman answer those for the sake of the committee to be placed in the record of the hearing, and i would yield back. >> the gentleman from california ms. watters. >> thank you. i want to thank you for being here. you have a tough job and sometimes we don't make it any easier for you blame pleased that you are here. i have two areas i am free educated in to get his the tracking your diversity and as you know this question has come out many times it appears to

still only about 4% african-americans and special regions and i want to know why you haven't been able to do better in the recruitment and hiring of african-americans in the fbi, and in addition to that i am really concerned about some information i just learned to read and i attended a briefing yesterday the was organized by the washington bureau of the american civil liberties union and the shared with me some very troubling information that i want to talk about because it reminds me of the most controversial sdi providing under jay edgar hoover that cost a lot of concern in the community. the fbi current domestic investigations utter and operations permit fbi agents to track racial and ethnic facilities and certain ethnic and racial we can choose documents obtained through the freedom of information by the aclu demonstrates how the fbi is

identifying american communities by race, ethnicity and national all over the country through a program that you have called domain management. the documents show the of the fbi analysts across the country or association with certain racial and ethnic groups and using the census data and other demographic information to map where those communities are located to investigate. for instance, in 2009 the office published in intelligence note from your domain management the reports to examine the so-called separatist threat by documenting the growth over the preceding years. we want to know how does the size of the black population in georgia and have any bearing on the number of black separatists in a given area or threat that they pose. does the fbi that the

communities in georgia in this examination of the black separatist threat? the other thing i am concerned about is the atlanta fbi field office intelligence documents that members of party as the former congresswoman said during the elections and appeared at the defense protesting the police balance and community information that indicates that congresswoman has been under surveillance team has been tracked for quite some time now. does the fbi feel that participation in the political process or protesting police violence constitutes a threat of any kind do you think is appropriate for the fbi to track americans first and best protected activity in this way that the fbi missed a major terrorism case past and present a more comprehensive list of terrorist attacks going back to 1932 tells an fbi report

entitled tourism 2002 to 2005 include any terrorist acts committed by anyone who could be described as a member of the black separatist group. >> that is a lot that i have asked that i am interested do you have a program called the man management is similar? >> yes, we give domain managers that requires our intelligence analysts to identify the threat in a particular area and asked that program may depend on the threat information the we got from inside the united states or outside of the united states and start by saying that we do not investigate individuals or groups solely on the basis of ethnicity or race. there may be occasions where we

know a particular entity. it can be a gang, a terrorist group that preys on certain communities and in those situations where they may be victims or what have you, in terms of those communities it may there on that intelligence to read so anything regarding -- >> domain management is that directed towards -- >> parchin? >> domain management programs in certain communities. >> no, the threats. the mortgage in the community and los angeles. where is the mortgage fraud? it means looking to your particular division or your district and identify the threats and the existence of the threats and how you are going to address it. it decided the timing of the threats and how you are going to allocate the resources to address the threats. >> what is mapping? >> the time is expired.

>> unanimous consent for a least one more minute. >> let me say without objection shall be recognized an additional 30 seconds to allow the director to answer the last question. >> is cynthia under surveillance and tracked by your report? >> i don't know where that comes from and i don't think it has any ability whatsoever. >> it's in your report >> i'm not familiar with what you are looking at. >> thank you. >> of the gentleman is recognized. >> thank you mr. chairman. appreciate your testimony today and i will start with the material. i'm looking at the report here the victim's report a typical crime victims report and it has the categories of age, educational attainment, school,

etc., race, ethnicity kuhl all categories i think we should be tracking as far as time is concerned that's fine. the next 1i look at is the hate crime incident reports that house similar categories may be not to upset the identical but it has categories for race and ethnicity as well and the heat crimes incident report did when i go to the uniform crime report the olver report that is the module for the record has categories for race but no category for ethnicity there's white, black or alaskan native for asian-pacific islander it has a category as the other firms for the mixed-race i would just ask if that perhaps is an oversight of something you consider bringing that to date so that are typical crime report would include the broad definition of ethnicity. estimate i guess i'm not certain why it is.

i assume what we try to do is take that information where that information as relevant. but i will look at that. i'm not familiar with that but we will get back on that. >> i would just state that i'm interested in it because there's a lot of numbers thrown around about the actual perpetrators and victims and this congress has gone far more towards the race and ethnicity of the victims of the crime than the george zimmerman case in florida has one that comes to mind so i would be interested in that response, and then also i would ask you with regards to voter fraud that's been much more publicity in the last few months something i've been interested in for at least a decade or a little more since the two paucity election in florida. what do you kind of voter fraud do you anticipate the prosecution coming forward? has anything happened in your tenure that should be pointed out that i might have missed as

far as the voter fraud investigation? >> i would have to get back to you. but obviously the obligation of voter fraud we would have to go back and look at what has been done. yes. >> did you get a call -- >> i'm not personally familiar and i can tell you right now what this might be. >> did you get a call when the young man presented himself to pick of the attorney general's ballot a couple months ago, was that something brought to your attention? i know that came before this committee about on the go and a young white male in his early 20s stepped into the voting location and i believe was in arlington virginia and presented himself as eric holder's 61-year-old african-american male in the early 20's and they were ready to presented a balance. with that kind of thing be of interest cspi? >> this is the first i have heard of the incident. i'm quite surprised at that may

be the attorney general wasn't alarmed either the the vote might have been disenfranchised so easily but i will go on to something that i am perhaps more concerned about coming and that is the publicity that is on full but here in the just this week and i would cite and ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a newsweek article dated may 14th, 2012 titled why can't obama bring wall street to justice and have forbes magazine article dated may 7th, 2012 title obama's doj and wall street too big to jail. these are subjects -- >> those articles will be made a part of the record. >> thank you to read these articles . now that the attorney general's older and his lieutenants house at least it is published in the documents the history of bumbling funds as much as half a million or more from the campaign of the president coming from covington and number of them that have

clients that might of the decline is under investigation because of the wall street meltdown in 2008. i would point out in 2009 the president establish the financial fraud enforcement task force to leave that task force has brought prosecution's small petty crimes by comparison and when a cable is the case of goldman sachs selling for 550 million-dollar settlement to the sec no criminal prosecution, so in the pattern of the financial history since 2008 can you point of any criminal investigations for the alleged perpetrators that brought about or might have accelerated this will street felt on that we saw in 2008. >> absolutely i will get to those. there's been a number of prosecutions of in new york and a number of around the country i will get you those 3i will say that full support from the department of justice many white collar whether it be corporate fraud.

>> and imposing mr. sherman, the words of lloyd cutler underneath carter said the appearance is dangerous to public confidence and the administration of justice has true conflict itself justice must not always be done, justice must also be seen to be done. thank you. i yield back. >> the gentleman from her rico. ..

let me surprise the situation for you. for violent crimes has decareer nationally has been on the rise for over a decade now. the homicide rate in each territory is about six times the national average, and almost three teems higher than any state. the same number of murders each year even though texas has help home to 25 million people and puerto rico's population don't reach 4. million. according to the link of international drug trade. -- the southwest border what's happening this is like a moving target to drug traffickers, they are changing routes and are

entering the caribbean once again. it is a problem of national scope. about three quarters of the cocaine that puerto rico is transported to the u.s. main lain because puerto rico is part of the u.s. it is not a foreign country. once the drugs enter the island, they are easily delivered to the state. there's no high end security. in order to drug-related violence in puerto rico and making it less easy to make it both the governor and i have requested the caribbean border initiative. along the lines of the southwest border and now we have a northern border initiative. what's happening, there's no initiative, no comprehensive

multi-agency for the caribbean and the consequences are -- thousands of and i cannot -- i have to say this is what is happening in the states, would be an outrage, a national emergency, i'm not the only one, though, who believes the federal court have yet to dedicated to the national resources to the problem. the house will approve this week include the following language, i quote, the committee is aware that efforts by federal law enforcement to reduce drug trafficking and associated violence in the southwest border region have affected trafficking route and crime rates in the caribbeans. attorney general by allocating necessary resources to areas partially affected by

drug-related violence and reporting such actions to the committee, end quoted. i know, the first will realize we have con straint. but this is the matter of prioritizing the limited resources and responding to problems in relation their seventity. your agencies on the ground in puerto rico are doing terrific work. i don't believe you're -- you have enough of the boundaries that you have the necessaries resources. but only -- not only the fbi but other resources within doj and dhs. so all i'm asking we deal with it with a sense of urgency. i would like to hear from you at least briefly on this. >> maybe three aspects we need to address. one is the drug traffickening. this is the responsibility of

dea, we work closely with dea. the second is the homicide rate and the deaths. you're right it is horrendous. any other city, it would be the principal focus. the third is public corruption. our efforts has been in the violences some is tied into the drug trafficking but often have to do with the gangs in puerto rico. it is not necessarily associated with the drug trafficking but is an issue of its own. are efforts are directed at addressing homicide rate in and the gangs and developing intelligence to take them out. and that's the public. we are operation guard shack which you're familiar with which we literally arrested i think it was over 100 police officers who were voted in the narcotics trade. we prioritize portière owe these

particular areas. additional resources more persons behind bars. >> mr. chairman, -- >> the counsel is recognized. >> i'd like to have it inserted to the record that the management intelligence-related to the threats of fbi labs. >> without objection. >> the gentleman from south carolina. >> thank you. because of the service to this committee, and because of this example player service of the attorney general of california. i'm going let him go before and i'll go last. >> the gentleman from california. >> i appreciate that. what a nice fella. i recall what i was a kid growing up listening to the football games. one of the stars was a halfback tim lose, one of the most highly

recruited players assistant. i think he had over 200 scholarship officers. he was in the first class of fbi agents which included blacks. he was an african-american, and who served about died about 11 years ago. i always remember that, so, i guess the fbi can can do better as was suggested. but as a kid, i remember him being a hero who went to the fbi. and it was exciting to see that happen. mr. director, let me ask you this. i am concerned always about the proper relationship between the executive and legislative branch. i'm deeply aware of the tremendous job the fbi does in looking public corruption. but i also thought it ought to be done the proper way. i think the ted stevens case was a black market mark on the

department. and the conduct of the leaved fbi agency in investigation and prosecution of former senator, now deceased ted stevens among the proper conduct, the agent failed to write post interview memos incoming the government's key witness, the one of the key witnesses provided information favorable to the defense. the to conceal brady and other material from senator stevens which are required under law. there was a disturbing. and i've always thought when you find the improper conduct by officials, that actually need to be taken not only because a matter of justice, but also to make it very clear to others in the department, that such action

will not tolerated. and in fact, direct and specific and immediate recourse will be taken. can you tell us what has happened in this case? >> yes. actually two agented involved. one of the agents brought to the attention of the issues that were disclosed, and another agent is the one to whom you are referring is going through the opr process at this point. we are take into account the most recent report from the person appointed by the court, as i say, that person is going through the opr process at this jungtture. >> i appreciate that. but, you know, ted stevens died in a plane accident some time ago. he was defeated in the election in part because of actions that

were taken by hem including actions byth fbi agent. it is to people, i believe, attempting to serve the country well in poss of authority -- positions of authority that an agency required to uphold the law and being a political branch of government had at least that alleged. improper activity because the court seemed to think it it was. here we are after the passage of time and nothing has taken place. i know, you want to be fair of it. is there going to be resolution? >> there has been investigations and findings. as i say, it's going through the process. the individual has a right to present -- >> if he does, members of

congress and elected efficients and appointed officials have a right to be treated fairly by the executive branch. i know, you take it seriously. i know your history. i took it very seriously as attorney general of california. we prosecuted all sorts of people. 0 indicatorly we did -- occasionally we did it together. >> yes. i think the point your institution has been on obligation to be absolutely fair because if in fact you make an error, you not only done an injustice to the individuals and constituents who's decision to elect someone in office to reverse and individuals in the voting booth made decisions based on improper information. i would hope that could be

accelerated, but certainly there needs to be some suggestion that the these be takenly seriously and consequences fall from it and the people understand a that you take it as serious i are as i know you do. but in the absence of completed action, i'm not sure that message is out there. i have a lot of other questions. my time is up. i thank the yes from south carolina for being so generous. >> thank you. the >> yes man from south carolina has been very patient and gracious. he is now recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to start by thanking you to our service to the country for the federal prosecutors and the distributer of the bureau. as i did the last time, i want to compliment the bureau. they are always extremely well prepared. they are professional. they are a credit to the bureau, and if you ever have a chance to tell them, i know a word from

someone they respect from would mean a lot to them. my first question, it's more a thorough therapeutic rant with the trial going on with the ksm. to have a female prosecutor suggest or female defense attorney what female prosecutors have on to have a defendant to take his shirt off in trial and have defendants claim their religion will not allow them to look at women who are dressed a certain way but that same religion does not prevent them from stoning rape victims, and burning victim with jet fuel is just outrageous to me. and i don't expect do you comment unless you want to, but the notion that we ever were going to try this case in the media center of the world to

give an even bigger platform to these defendants, i'll tell you, i had judges come down a lot harder on me because i poured water in a cup too loud than this judge is coming down on these defendants and attorneys. i doubt there's a thing in the world when you do about it, but why read about it and when i juxtaposition that the way american department defendants and defense attorneys are treated in ordinary court. it strikes me with contorting ourselves like an 0 olympic gymnast to let the world think we are fair with animals. we don't ever vote the same way. i don't think, if we have, it's been accident. we do agree on this. this is a notion that when poor people steal, they go to jail.

when rich people steal, sometimes they get invited to the senate or house congressional committee hearings. like the former governor of new jersey. and i don't have any idea whether did substitutes a crime, it sure likes like it does. you have the statistics, i don't challenge them. i would encounseling encourage -- they need if with respect to the federal fraud. the notion that poor people go to jail and rich people don't is ult hately going to destroy our judicial system. so -- i'll give you a chance to comment. i know, you said there are prosecutions going on. i believe you when you say that i would ask for your press shot to get the word out. the u.s. attorneys have active ways to get the word out. the public sees there are

consequences for that. >> i think you make a valid point. there will be a article in the paper but question do a better job of pushing a full portrait what we have done across the country. that's a good suggestion we'll follow up. >> thank you, director. the other suggestion that i would have, again, i preface again, i think you have a remarkable career. it seems like we focus on a two or three things where there could be improvement rather than the 98 that you do a good job on. my constituents, they have asked me is there any way we could see how often nsls are used or how pervasives in certain parts of the country president more information that we can give to folks that the bureau is walking

through people's homes at night. i know, know a bureau agency to do that. i wish we were more aggressive in allaying the fears that people have. that we're striking the balance too much in favor of government intervention and not enough in favor of privacy. >> we do file reports with congress. i had to check and see which parts of public in terms in what we do with regard to the act and the statute as well. it's a national security letters. the fact of the matter is, with the very few agents around the country. people think that we are for a more prevalent than we actually are. if you look around the right and left, and see if is there is anybody everyone other than helped by the fbi. we have been successful on addressing over the years, organized criminals, terrorists, and that's what we do.

and we hope the public reck nieces that. in the absence of any other activities such as you describe, would understand the fbi agents, their neighborhood, their friend, their supporters and defender of community. >> thank you, director. >> thank you. thank you for being here today. our hearing has been concluded. we appreciate your testimony. several members have asked to followup with you. i'm sure that will be able to accomplished as well. we'll continue to be in touch again, thank you for your service. >> thank you. >> without objections, i additional materials for the record and the hearings is ajoshed. -- the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

afghanistan and missile defense will be among the top items at next week's nato summit in chicago. up next from george washington a conversation on nato's wujt and agenda. after that, a senator foreign relations hearing on nato's submission we'll hear from the assistant secretary of state for european and asian affairs. tomorrow a senate panel on health and aging hold a hearing on heavy hiv/aids and drug costs. live coverage could start at 10:00 eastern on c-span 3. later in the day a hearing on the legal too cuss of chinese political activists do you know do you know is dank -- and has asked to the u.s. to study.

it starts at 1:00 p.m. eastern. next week the north atlanta treaty organization will hold a summit in chicago. next a discussion about the chicagos facing nato in afghanistan, iraq, and cyberspace. here's a first part of the discussion. it's about an hour and twenty eight minutes. >> welcome back. this is the final panel of the day. those of you who got to the beginning this morning, you know my name is ian davis. i'm the director of nato watch. in chicago the head state and government facility to approve more than twenty joint projects to share costs of the hardware and promote what has been defined as a new med set in weapons known as --

we are also expected to announce a collective forces initiative with nato's designed and stained to increase the links betweened the arms forces of different nato forces. together these two initiatives are expected to lay the foundations for nato's future forces to 2020. most of this has been, you know, quite heavily sign posted and developed in the last twelve months. and i think someone mentioned in the previous session regarding the much of it is not new. for those who worked on the issues for the last twenty years, attempts at increasing the interoperate rehabilitate within europe going back at least to the 19 0eus and the work the western european union. clearly terrorist a new impee

-- but what really fascinated me on the particular issue, really, is the underlying narrative in which the debate takes place. and in summit, it's about europe does not pull its weight in the alliance. the european nato is heavily sub decide the by the united states. it is a distorted view of the nato budget i are process and how the public god of security shared from the lines. nevertheless, having said that over the year, there have been many color of warning -- the outgoing secretary of defense robert did the most on the debate. for me, it was one of the latest comments that was referred to in an article last week.

he creteed cited a u.s. air force plan who was clearly campus -- the question is this, can the smart defense approach achieve a pooling of resources in the transatlantic especially european to ensure gnat alliance capabilities even the the time when the allies are making defense cuts. or to put it in the language of the u.s. air force office, all those europeans won't be whys ling while they work. in tune and on the same will they be taking on the largest

share of the burden safe on the iraqi if the stepmother and ensured a fairy tail ending, which essentially means more security for deference budgets. after the ticky questions. we have a very talented panel for the benefit on c-span, give a brief resume of the four speakers we have. we with julianne smith who become national security advisers to vice president biden. served for three years as the director of europe and nato. joining the administration she was director of the european program on the streakic and international studies. i have to say before that, she was with basic, so as a basic person, time for --

on my left is andras simonyi the trance characteristic relations managing director johns hospital kins university. to my right is the marios efthymiopoulos. he is a 2012 society fellow. president strategy international. he is also has been a writing fellow of the provisions in washington, d.c., and a fellow in creern studies at the university. marios efthymiopoulos is a president of the strategic

international based in greece. he's a nato specialist at the trance atlantic. the george washington business cool school and center of excellence in washington, d.c. he has a book coming out on nato security feature in greece. as you can see, each got lot to work about on the particular topic. we've been asked them to speak for ten to twelve minutes. i'm playing the role of the wicked witch. >> thank you very much. thank you for the invitation. and it's good to see friends and faces from basic. so we all know that the defense budgets of allies and alliances has been an ongoing challenge fraternity likes, and not just in terms of what allies spent, i think it's also been a question of how allies spend the budgets

they have in hand. and that's become ingreasily worse on the last couple of years. the financial crisis, which all of the twenty eight members of the alliance are grappling with and turns to the defense budgetses for some possible relief including cuts that are coming here in the united states. what's changed about the cuts we've seen over the last months and recent years, is two things. one, the actual size of the cuts that we've been witnessing has changessed quite dramatically in years passenger's past and decades past, we've soon allies cutlet say between 5 and 10% it ha an impact on the line. it wasn't a crushing blow in any way shape or form.

what's changing now we're seeing countries cutting upwards of 20/25%. there's a where, i think, it's a tough choices have to be made by nato members. they are forced to pricertize. sometimes that's helpful and useful. there's no question there are instances where can easily find an inefficiency and waist. but i think when you're talking about a 25% cut in most defense budgets, particularly those who have already seen cut ins recent years. you start to feel that collectively in terms new capability gaps that have been appear, the second things that been happening that changed a little bit in yeent years in the defense budget has been the actual type of cuts we've seen unfolding on the european continent. traditionally what would happen when a country was faced with cutting the defense budget, they skim across the top and take a

little bit from all the different areas. whether it's the rd or accusation, personnel, everybody would be affected one way or another. but what's happened now is that countries have been forced to move forward with what we call not hornet discal but vertical cuts. that's where whole capability limits are eliminated entirely. one example that sited quite frequently the dutch decision to eliminate all of the armors. and one could argue that, you know, from a dutch national security perspective, maybe that was a decision that was wise and long overdue. but one has to also ask the question, had there been a conversation in nato, among all of the allies to determine whether or not that actual capability might be needed in years ahead. say looking over the next decade. that's a type of conversation is not happening. so that's another problem that i wo