>> wonderful, wonderful. you have become an instant celebrity. i know that you move between spaces fluidly. we are very honored to have you here, mr. rodney king. we have a very patient and excited and interested audience. ..

>> or as someone who has been part of a longer conversation about whether policing is racist or not and what is the responsibility of black people in relation to the community. but in all of those versions of rodney king, um, there's no understanding of you as a kid who loved fishing, a kid who loved to swim, a kid whose favorite pastime in sports was baseball, and i would even say something most people don't know, you're a firefighter. >> oh, yeah. that's right. >> tell us a little bit about you as a person aside from the public figure that most people think they know? >> well, i'm just a down to earth guy, and, um, you know, i love life. it's, my childhood was a real good experience. i grew up in a neighborhood where it was pretty much a mixed neighborhood, did a lot of fishing with my pops.

we had a lot of fish fries. did a little hunting also with him, had the experience to hunt with him. i wouldn't trade the experience of being rodney as a kid for nothing. it was a good experience. it was a learning experience be also, you know? >> tell us about some of those lessons. >> well, i can remember when me and my three brothers had our -- this was a little rough one here, so i'm going to start with the rough first. you know, you get older and you get the chance to go out on your own, so me and my three brothers was out, and i think that day we had went swimming, swimming in the little -- in a dam, it was called santa fe dam or manager like that. hanson dam -- no, it was devil's gate -- >> they heard a little bit about devil's gate. >> yeah, yeah. so they know the story. >> they don't know the whole story, tell 'em. >> we were swimming, and, you

know, i'm so used to being around different nationality of people around that age because my mom did house cleaning in the daytime, and my dad did it with her, but he would do businesses at night. they would take us over to the houses during the week because we were too young to be in the school, so i had the experience of being around whites and enjoying the company at an early age. so one day as we got older, we was able to go out on our own, and that particular day we went up to the lake i was telling you about. and so when we went up there, the guys was playing frisbee, and we were swimming in a little mud hole. i guess they were starting to get bored, they were 18, 19, 20. they were older than us. because we were, like, 8, 9 -- 8, 9 and 10.

i'd say. and so i see this guy tying up a rope, tying this rock up with a belt. and he was fumbling with it, trying to get it on there. and so the guy gets the rock on there, and he starts swinging his belt around, and they start cursing and stuff like that. so i'm watching him. i'm always the one that notices something that's about to happen for some reason. [laughter] for some reason. and so what i did was i got out of the water real slow and left my other two brothers swimming. and i was so scared because i seen the other guy, that other guy coming down to the lake with the rock on the belt that he had. and he got in that water with my brother, with my old oest brother, and he tried to get him so he could put -- tie him up with that rock and that rope, the belt and the rope. and anyway, my youngest brother saw him, what he was doing, he went down to the bottom of the lake and got some sand and threw

it in the guy's eyes. and the guy started screaming and hollering. that's how they got away. so when my oldest brother caught up with me, he said, why did you leave us? he called me all kind of names. why'd you leave us, you little punk? it wasn't punk -- [laughter] he was becausing me out. -- cussing me out. i felt so bad because i felt so helpless, and i was just so scared, you know? first time we had went out as three brothers, and we ran into that kind of, um, you know, that brutality -- >> this is a coming of age moment for racism for you. >> yeah. it was a coming -- that's what it was. it dawned on me, hey, you're black and they're white, you know what i mean? >> and i think you were, you describe certain aspects of your childhood, and you mentioned up here about a world that wasn't shaped by -- >> exactly. >> that it was open, you had relationships with all sorts of people, one of which you --

well, not so much a person, but you describe your dad's favorite music. >> uh-huh. he loved country rock music, you know? he was the only black guy, i think, in the neighborhood who liked country white music, you know? and he loved it. that's what -- you know, that was quite an experience. i mean, it was a good experience, too, also, because of my mom's religion. her religion allowed us to be around different nationalities of people, and when we'd have these assemblies -- >> she's a jehovah's witness? >> yeah. i'm not baptized or anything myself, but it's been a wonderful experience when i was young growing up and being able to go out there. they would rent, like, the dodgers stadium, and there'd be different nationalities of people that would come out, indian, japanese, white, black, you name it, they were there. so during the lunch hours we would all help in the preparing the food.

so we got to know a lot about different, you know, cultures and what they like to eat and stuff like that. it was such a together and a warm feeling being with all those nationality people. no one knew each other, everybody was just so happy and friendly. but, you know, there was a time you had to leave and go home, and real reality hit. it was so much different, you know, being out in the world in the way people treat you compared to being into, you know, a forum with everybody of different nationalities. and it was so nice, it was such a pleasant thing. and then to leave there and to be in the mix, like, you know, in the real world it's not really like that. so it was a, it was quite an experience. >> you talk about, um, the arc of the book is about redemption, and you describe in the book that you were influenced through your mother's faith but did not

embrace religion. i'm curious, though, in terms of sort of the full trajectory of, um, childhood to the beating to the rebellion to the after life to today, has her influence shaped you in ways that even if you aren't a practicing, don't practice a faith, but her influence somehow has sort of given you a sense of your own humanity? >> yes. what it did was my mom's religion and having a ground like that, you know, it kind of set the tone for my life, for the rest of my life. and it helped me not to hang on to anger, you know? be a racist towards my brother, you know? um, it gave me, um, it gave me structure, you know? i don't want walk -- i have something forward to look for. there's a god out there, there's

a jehovah god out there. and, you know, i always look forward to the day when the world would be at peace and everybody can come together and get along, you know? >> we're going to talk about getting along because i think inquiring minds want to have a context of that. can we have the first slide? so we have some pictures behind us, many of which will be familiar to you, of course. >> yeah. [laughter] ouch. >> yeah. this is that, this is that night. and i wanted to read what i thought was one of the more moving passages as you describe, actually, what's happening before the camera is rolling. >> uh-huh. >> so this is, this is what you describe. you said but that was not their intent, and that was made brutally clear to me when one of the officers suddenly kicked me

with his boot in the side of my face, smashing my jaw. it felt like someone had taken a baseball bat to my head. before i could even register that unbearable pain, one of the other officers slammed me in the lower leg with his baton. i heard a crack and was so damned surprised when that happened that i immediately pleaded with melanie, who was one of the arresting officers but at that point had become your guardian angel, at least in your mind, someone who was different from the rest. i know this is going to sound kind of strange, but up until that point i had felt safe with her there at the scene, sort of a maternal presence. i shouted out to her, they don't have to do this. tell them, they don't have to do this. >> yeah. real brief going through that story, you know, when i was initially pulled over, i knew i shouldn't have been drinking and driving, but i had a job to go to that monday.

a union job had called me. and that was paying way more money than what i was making from being an usher at dodger stadium and remodeling the hot dog and pizza stands. so they told me to be ready to go to work monday. when i heard that, i went and got a few beers and went over to my buddy's house. i didn't let them know i was going to be going to work because i didn't know how they were going to be feeling about that. they get a little angry sometimes when they know you are -- [laughter] but it was all good. and i went out with them, and we were on our way to the dam where my dad used to take us fishing because i didn't want to be stuck in the same little community where we were at, where we grew up at. it was a couple of us. and so we started out over there, and then the highway patrol got on me, started chasing me on the car, on the 210. and so i saw -- the only thing i could think about was that job i've got to make it to get this job monday. i'm supposed to start work

monday, and here i've got the cops behind me and i'm on parole. >> that's a lot to worry about. [laughter] >> yeah. i had worked myself -- you know, when you come out of prison and you really try to do the right thing, and then you, all of a sudden you know you're about to, your whole world's about to stop because you're on parole, and you're going back to jail. that's the only thing i could think of. anyway, i had lost the highway patrol car, and what happened was the helicopter was up there. and wasn't no getting away from the helicopter. [laughter] and, my goodness. >> but you did think for a moment you might outrun. weren't you in a hyundai? >> yeah. hyundai excel. it was an upgrade. [laughter] >> because the joke here is that, and mr. king doesn't know this, but i was pushing a hyundai at the time. [laughter] it was an excel gl, you know?

had the little coupe hatchback. and, in fact be, i used the drive from philadelphia to chicago from college home, and in the allegheny mountains i could floor it, and it wouldn't get past 55. [laughter] and it wouldn't get past 55. >> yeah. >> so you were thinking you were in a hot rod, but you were really in a hyundai. >> exactly. [laughter] anyway, to my surprise, they caught up with me. [laughter] and when they caught up with me, i could see them pull up on the side of me and said it looks like we're going -- pull over, and my heart just started going. so i had to think, man. i had to think fast. i already know a beating's coming after this chase because that's just how it goes. unfortunately, that's how it's been over the years. so i was looking for a pretty literary -- literary to stop,

and where i chose to stop, there were apartment buildings. i said, boy, if i get out here and it goes bad, maybe somebody will come outside, and sure enough it went bad. so she ordered me out of the car. i got -- >> melanie. >> yeah. melanie and tim singer. they were a husband and wife team. the highway patrol, the initial ones on the chase. and so they, she came over to me, they had already ordered me out of the car, you know, take your right hand, put it outside the car, take your left hand, open the car up and lay down. so i laid down face down. she came over to me, and she got my be wallet out of my back pocket so she could get my id. as she's doing that, they're running to the trunk and popping the trunk real fast, and one is trying to get his taser out, i mean, his baton off the car. he's running towards me, and as she's walking away i said, hey, i'm laying on the floor face

down, and i'm like, hey, tell them they don't have to do this because i already know what's going to happen. so when she walked away from me, her husband walked up to me and just like, boom, kicked me in the temple area and broke my jaw. and then he asked me, how do you feel? and, you know, my feelings and my whole heart and everything was broke at that point. the only thing i could do was not let this guy know he got the best of me, which he did. so i told him -- i couldn't even talk, i said, i feel fine. jaw's broke, blood coming out. i feel fine. so i laid down there. i guess the sergeant heard that, sergeant coon. so he came up and, zoom, tased me right away. i'm being tased, i'm just -- he's lighting me up. i can feel the blood coming out of my mouth and face. and then he asks me, how you feel now? and i couldn't say nothing. and he said, we're going to kill you, nigger, run.

so i'm going to run. be so i hesitated for a second. i stayed on the ground, and, you know, was just looking for a clearance at that point. i'm still on the ground. and i'm looking for a clearance. and when i see the clearance -- excuse me, when i see the clearance, it was between the hyundai and the police officer right here. so what i do is i get up to go run, to run, but this leg -- when this leg went in front of me, i didn't know it was broke. so the leg just fell down. so when i fall down, it looks like -- they was able to make the camera look like i was going after him because my hands went like this. but i was trying to get my hands in front of me so i won't fall face down. >> and the video still wasn't running by that time. >> that's when the video had been running maybe about 15, 20 seconds -- >> it caught that move. >> so it caught that. >> okay. >> what it didn't catch was, you know, them name calling and the taser being, you know -- >> right. >> the juice running, 50,000

volts going through my body. now, he did that, like, three shots and discharged all three shots. but while he's tasing me, these guys are beating me with the batons, and he's telling me to stay still, stay still. there's no way you can stay still with those kind of volts running through your body. now, i'm all hooked at this point. i'm soaked in blood, and the electricity's hitting me at the same time. so i'm like, whoa. i'm feeling, i'm feeling like felt like when my dad almost burnt up the house when i was a kid playing with matches, threw a match in the trash can, it caught on fire. ran out, two minute bees later the kitchen was on fire. he went in there and it would me take a bath and don't dry off. he had an extension cord waiting on me. that same whooping felt like it prepared me for that night with the taser. because getting whupped with an extension cord and shocked is the same feeling.

it was a horrible feeling. and so when i, when i felt that, it was like 20 times worse than the extension cord, you know, whupping. and anyway, the guy was running the taser until it ran out, but he's saying stay still. so when he stops the taser, of course i'm regrouping myself, trying to see if i'm still there. i'm trying to stay still, but, shit, i can't -- excuse me. [laughter] >> it's okay. >> so the guy, so he starts beating me some more because i'm move being. oh, he's moving. and be i can hear them calling me the names. you f-ing, you know, n. and then i mean, once you start cursing and you're beating somebody, you really get into it now. so they really into it, calling me these names, and they really into it. so at this point i'm like, oh, man. >> so you had a moment that you describe in the book where, and i want the audience to hear you describe it, where you sort of

insert yourself in the long history, um, of black people's experiences in the united states. and you make specific references to slave beatings. >> yeah. i'm going to tell you what really gave me a lot of strength also that night was knowing that, you know, blacks before me went through this in slavery. and up to this day, you know? i said to myself, i kept saying it was just moments, you know, moments to think. and it's like, dang, this is what, you know, people really went through back in the days, you know, and still going through when they don't, if they don't catch 'em, when they don't get caught. but i said, i've got to survive this. my brothers and sisters can survive through the same thing, so you've just got to stay alive, buddy, stay alive. because, i mean -- you don't even have time to think of that, but you already know because you're being beat by people who are not of your color, you know? so my whole instinct is i cannot

die out here. i cannot let these guys kill me. i've got to stay alive, you know? i've got prove what happened to me. so, you know, being handcuffed and everything, and the only thing i could do was hold on to my shoes, and i think it was a shirt that i still had in the hospital. and i thought that was the only evidence i had. i didn't know there was a video camera. because i said to myself, nobody's going to believe you, man. ain't nobody going to believe, so you better hold on to these shoes and these pants. after a couple of days they wheeled me into another room, excuse me, and there was a black policewoman that came in there, and she said, oh, baby, we seen it all on tape. and to go back a little bit with melanie singer, the highway patrol lady there, i felt like everything was going to be okay because there was a female out there that night. so i thought it was going to be different. and then let me move back up forward be.

where was i at? >> you were talking about the african-american female police officer that came -- >> yeah. the black female officer that was in the county jail, she worked there, and she said, baby, we seen it all on tape. you just lay down there and get yourself well so you can get through this. she said it's all on tape, don't worry about it. she said they got it all on tape. i don't believe it. so they wheeled me into another part of the jail, and the inmates must have got wind of it on tv somehow, and when i got in there, i couldn't walk or nothing. so they was picking me up, carrying me up to the window. which one of 'em did it? it was white boys, mexicans, they was ready to riot. one of 'em got me on this side, one of 'em got me on this side, and the cops were all look anything there wanting to see how much damage was done on me. and they was like which one of 'em did it? i was trying to tell 'em. i couldn't even tell them was my

jaw was broke. i tried to tell 'em, it's not them, it's not those, you know? but they was ready to riot in that jail that day. >> one thing you describe which won't be obvious to the audience was you actually hadn't been charged with anything at that point. >> no. >> were you conscious of that at that point, and how quickly did someone use that as evidence that maybe the officers realized they had overstepped their bounds? because, clearly, um, given what the encounter actually looked like, there should have been some -- reckless driving, excessive speeding. but at this point you hadn't even been charged. >> right. because the beating was, it was too horrible for them, i guess for them to even want to press charges. i had got lucky because i had a black parole officer, and so he understood, you know, he understood what went on. and he told me, hey, man, you won't be getting, you won't be getting violated on this. he said, you know, we, we got --

you gotta do something about this. you get yourself well so you can stay focused on what's got to be done here. you've got some work to do, but don't worry about me. you won't be getting violated by me. >> so i have -- we're running a little late, of course, because the thing started late, but i wanted to, um, get you to talk about -- you made reference to your expectation of police violence that preceded the moment that you actually are finally pulled over, right? that you expected this kind of violence. i want you just briefly to just sort of talk about what that was like. because the book doesn't describe that expectation prior to that moment. i mean, you're talking about your participants, you're talking about your -- your parents, your father's alcoholism and how you yourself drank a lot as a young adult, and sometimes you'd make stupid decisions as a young person, driving too fast, etc., but you don't talk about that. i wanted to get a broader sense

of what it was like to be a young black man in los angeles in the 1980s where you had this expectation of violence. and then i want to talk a little bit about the trial itself. i have something i want to share with the audience about what you've described from one of the officers. >> well, where i grew up at, you know, i could see there was a police car one time, and it had a lot of little pings and departments in it. -- dents in it. i would ride my-inny bike up training trails some days, and there's a dirt trail right off of ashbar road, and i could see sometimes cops bringing guys up there, black guys up there, handcuff 'em to the car and just beating 'em real bad. i'd shut my minibike down and watch 'em. >> this was in a secluded area. >> yeah. it's a secluded area. it's in the mountains. there's a road up to it.

but there's trails, there's bike trails on the side of it. not too many people go up there unless you live there. but it was a good spot for them to take prisoners up there and beat 'em up. anyway, one day one of the police had stopped me, and he said you know whose dent this is from? this is from, you know, this is from chris' head, you know? that's my dent right there from chris. and he goes see this dent back here? that's john's face right there. and which one of these dents you going to be? >> and these were people that you knew? >> yeah, these were people that i knew back then. so police brutality has been going on -- and they stopped bringing prisoners up to the police station where i live because they were saying that the prisoners were hanging themselves and that they killed themselves. so it was just too many accidental deaths going on at the station. >> quote-unquote. >> yes. so there was too many accidental deaths going on at the station, so they don't even bring them

there anymore. they take them out to glendale. they moved the station, the holding tank. it's just a holding tank now to this day. they hold them there for a couple hours, they don't spend the night there, they take them to the next city over because the sheriffs was so, you know, brutal with the inmates. >> so given that, those experiences that well known in your community among your peers, given now what's just happened to you, now there's a videotape. >> uh-huh. >> you're going into the trial a year later with, what, expectations that justice will be served? >> yeah. >> okay. >> simi valley, the first -- we get to the first court hearing in simi valley, and my lawyers are telling me you stay home, don't come to the court, you know? we don't want you to lose it and, you know, blow the case. and i'm at home, you know, and i'm just going crazy because i can't be there to speak for my

own self. it's my case, you know? and i was just so, so discombobulated -- >> the district attorney actually chose -- >> terry white. >> -- not to ask you to testify which then the defense or the jury held against you. explain that to them a little because it seemed to make sense from the district attorney's standpoint that you might not necessarily incriminate yourself, but you might contradict the physical be evidence. but yet the jury said if he really was -- >> hurt. >> -- if he was not the cause of this, right? >> yeah. >> because the pcp was in play, that you were -- >> yeah. >> -- on psychedelic drugs, you were uncontrollable, you were a threat to the officers. >> although they never found pcp in my blood anywhere, they still used the pcp, they thought i was on pcp. but, yeah, the da, the prosecutor, he would tell my attorney to make sure you keep him away. and so he kept me away. but it just hurt me so bad

because i'm watching all the reporters did a wonderful job at the court, and, you know, they were real honest, and they were, like, you could see almost tears in the reporters, in the cameraman's eyes like how come these guys didn't get convicted? but then you have what is her name, nancy grace? nancy grace was -- >> not the same nancy grace. >> the same nancy grace. [laughter] she's in front of the courthouse, and she's just -- if this really happened to rodney king, why isn't rodney king here? where is he at? he must not be hurt that bad. it must not have been that bad. why isn't he here? my case almost got judged just by some of the things that she was out there saying all during the two weeks that she was there. i hate -- it just irked me when she had herself in front of the courthouse, um, trying my case outside the courthouse as a reporter.

>> do you think that it matters that there were ten white jurors, one hispanic and one asian? >> it definitely had a impact on my case, absolutely. you know, you have to have someone from your peers on your case, especially of your same nationality. because they don't know anything about you. even a person of your own color doesn't know anything about you, but at least they understand a little bit more, you know? there's a little bit more understanding. but -- >> there's a couple things that, there's one example i want to share because, ultimately, this case came down to a sympathetic jury. because you weren't on trial, right? the defendants were four police officers facing, you know, about eight years' time based on what they had been charged with. >> yes. >> and from your account of it, it's clear that in juror comments afterwards that they,

in fact, were swayed by the officers' collective defense was effectively that, one, they were following protocol -- >> procedures. >> right. >> so if procedure's kill a person, we were taught this is how we was trained, and that person has to die because i'm going to do my job. and i almost lost my life because of procedures. but what it boils down to is the guys having fun on their job, and it was a pattern that they always did. no one, no one -- you don't -- i couldn't beat someone like that if i hadn't beat someone like that before, you know? if i was a cop. it was a routine beating. ..

>> through your experience, the jury said this wasn't about race, this is about behavior and an acceptable response to his behavior. he said that now come i don't know what that is racist, but evidence cemented in court that 20 minutes before he beat me, he sent this computer message. well, it sounds almost exciting as our last call. the call to him has come in. it was right out of gorillas in the mist. powell's lawyer tried to dismiss

his activities by saying it wasn't necessarily racist. how had been on a domestic best domestic violence call. the characterization of that is that he had just finished up with guerrillas in gorillas in the mist. this was evidence cemented by the district attorney as evidence of a pre-existing mindset that preceded your actual encounter. even as he wrote those words in this book, this is still surprise you is what passes as not being racist in terms of what a jury is willing to say is or is not evidence of racism? >> you know, it is surprising to me. it was definitely racist, you know that and i know that and everyone else knows that. the bad thing about it is it was too black they are. we left them -- the attorneys let them there, i told them to

let them go, because we were lucky to get the two that we got. i would've been happier we could've gotten for, even the five with the highway patrol. that would've been fun. i was happy to get some type of justice. i am missing my point, this. >> there is another example from the jurors that is important to say in the context of this. one of the jurors, in an interview afterwards, basically describes and characterized that the fame of this is really important. here we have evidence that one of the arguments on this -- and later we have a juror describing lack of criminal behavior on the part of the officers. because you were really harmed by with it. it was a characterization of you of being able to take a beating. and since you weren't really harmed, how could this be an

instance of excessive force? is that fair characterization? >> yes, it was hurting. what made me realize is that blacks have been treated very bad. i never would've wanted to live back in the '30s or be born in the 50s. because i don't see how they made a way for it to this day. >> ron paul on this particular point about these stereotypes and demonization and the stigma of black men, in this case, you basically been prepared to kind of have an animallike strength. we cannot see the video, right? and there is even questions in the trial that those were missing -- those blows were missing and they were queen strikes. the prosecutor minute it at the time so that all the jury could hold the physical baton.

ron paul, interestingly, as a presidential candidate in this election cycle, described in one of his newsletters that those preceded the trayvon martin tragedy -- those that preceded it. six-foot tall, 13-year-old black boy should be feared as if they were adults. purely because of that. this was a legitimate response to the fear. a legitimate response to their size and physicality. and it strikes me that in your case, not only did the jury penalize you as being deserving because of your side, but the police officers made sport of your size by giving you a little bit extra. >> yes. it is a sad case. it has been going on for so long. and it's been going on that even

some of the black police that worked in the lapd area, and probably everywhere, they have had a hush over the years so they can keep their jobs. and it has gotten to the point where people have almost become completely numb numb to it. think of the videotape, because what it did is will the woke the mindset of people. had it not been for that beating on videotape, things would be a lot worse than what they are now. you know, it's been going on so long. and we have done so much work since the release of slaves to this day we have always been the person who had to go out and do the dirty jobs in war and in some jobs we don't like. and accepting things we don't

like. once you have been an underdog for so long, it's easy for everyone else who came into the country to have that attitude also. there's a saying that it went on. i understand that now. the country has modern tools to work with now. i don't agree with what went on, but we should be way past the point where the black man is always the bad guy and watch out for him. but if you are pressed for 300 years and told the were bad guy over the years -- people would really start thinking that he is the bad guy. it is a shame that trayvon had to lose his life. in order for things to change.

because there will be a change after that one. >> can we see just a run of the slides around the rebellion, because they transition us to talk a little bit about trayvon in our remaining time. can you take us back? >> those are merchants in the midst of the rebellion and riots. there are a couple more. real property, real people, real violence. >> people are fed up. you know, they were fed up. >> paws on this image. this image comes from our collection of malcolm x.'s papers. this is a response to a police

raid on a nation of islam temple in 1962 were to african-american members were killed according to the nation, in cold blood by the lapd. it has spurred malcolm x. to a much more aggressive position on anti-police brutality organizing i thought this was a very powerful image the headline reads negro shot in cold blood by police. this just gives us a kind of historical frame. if you were born in 1965. this is three years before rodney king was born. it certainly gives some richness and texture. did you know about this? >> i didn't, but there have been

so many films that i have seen them all. i am always curious to see that footage and how it exists. compared to where we are today. >> it just echoes your point about the foundational nation or -- the foundational nature of. >> folks pushing back against the racial status quo in a moment. next slide, please? >> you make reference to both the 1965 rebellion, which is part of the chronology to be part of that larger community. but you also tie that moment

into katrina. and this is an image of the swat teams were sent in to new orleans to deal with that then problem of looting, which became another racialized metaphor in this particular moment for black people who were facing the most desperate of circumstances. one of the interesting ironies about this particular moment was all the mythology about the crime and violence, the rates that were happening 95%, to be absolutely sure, even in the ap reporting of katrina, you saw the juxtaposition of african americans going into stores to get things. again, i am not here absolving people of whatever wrongdoing they actually committed in the midst of that moment. but nevertheless, when it was

taxed with appropriate objects, the researcher found them. it is fascinating to see the racial decision. it is the sense of the long-standing presence of police in some kind of occupying army. what did you think about this and in this moment, and what did you think about the news reports of looting and we sing to yourself, this is going to be l.a. over again? were you saying i guess we still can't get along? what was your response? >> it was terrible because i was just so scared for them. for the community. they have lots of you let on top of that they had not a lot.

and also those people getting blamed for it. it was a moment for people period, you know? it was this bad moment it looked like it could have gotten worse. i just can't believe how things go from bad to worse. we are in modern times, you know? it is just unbelievable that it happens here in america people have, you know, build and work so hard to get us up to this point. to get blamed and picked on and bullied on, as a race of people, it loses me. i get lost in my own country

sometimes. i know we have, little ways, you know, but like martin luther king says, we still have a long ways to go and we should always be working toward a better tomorrow and always talk about race relations in this country. we should always stay on it. >> we have to be vigilant about it. >> yes. nobody suffers like the blacks. everybody suffers, and minorities, period. i think that for the -- thank goodness for some who understand that we are really going through it. those of color who have died for a good cause, it warms me up and i want to shed tears for them because if it wasn't for a lot of prayers from everybody, all

different nationalities, praying for the good of this country, and in my situation, praying for me, i wouldn't be alive to this day. my spirits were then broken a long time ago had it not been for people of all colors coming together and letting them know this is america. this is how we do it in this part of the globe. it is just not enough. but the ones that have, it really makes a difference. my heart really goes to them because it is hard for us to do it on our own, you know? >> it sounds like your mom's belief system really has helped you to be grounded in something optimistic. >> yes, yes. >> next slide, please? i wanted this one to be enslaved because it brings into sharp focus with where we are in this particular moment.

we are not even at the situation of trayvon martin yet. this you may not have heard was a news report, a facebook group run by about 1200 members, sympathizers and allies, but in response to the annual parade, which is a cultural celebration in brooklyn, officers complained about having to do that [inaudible] and they shared publicly what they thought about the black parade and we are not talking about a bed of 19 years old -- a group of 19-year-olds. this is -- this is a photograph that appeared in an article where two lawyers had actually

captured the whole conversation. among that conversation was a caption in reference to the parade goers as in malls and savages. we should drop a bomb and wipe them all out. one officer said we don't do anything, they develop to just kill themselves. this is going back -- this is one of those moments where we don't have to abstract what members of our local law enforcement community, not everybody, think of the people they are supposed to serve and protect. this came out in december 2011. it suggests that we might be moving in the wrong direction. the lessons of your experience may be lost to a generation. these young officers as you see here, they don't look like veterans of the forest, they

haven't learned anything from what your experience taught. do you feel that way? i know that you just described a lot of optimism, but i'm curious. how did you process something like this? what would you tell an 18-year-old growing up in harlem or in south central l.a. in the wake of this? this is hard to hide from. this is a daily experience. we just had a man killed in his own pastor. he was suspected of selling marijuana. he got home before the police officers got there. they broke into the house, he was in the bathroom, allegedly flushing whatever pocky had. if you can run that fast without them you don't have a whole lot of pot. they killed him in the bathroom. this is happening right now. would you tell young people.

>> it is a hard one to speak on, but i will tell you that when things like that happen, we as people, you know, we get ourselves in a position that every time a situation like that happens, when it is not reasonable, we should make moves to where we can have those officers fired every time. it is happening way too often now. the only way they're going to stop is if they start losing their jobs. [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] >> that's the only way. everybody has to come together and demand that that person be removed from the force. so this doesn't happen again. when it happens come and makes it okay for that guy and i tried to do it. and then the rookies that come up after it's going to be ingrained in them, you know? it's taking us a long time we

have to step up to the plate and demand when there is an unjust will school killing, someone needs to be fired. someone needs to go to jail. if they are on the police force, they definitely need to be fired. once it leaves her, it's gone. it's on its way for god to do his next thing in there. you know? no man should be able to take another man's life. it is a scary feeling someone to invade your life and invade your space like that. it put me back many years. i couldn't imagine what it was like to live back in the day. when something like that happen, they have to get rid of them. they have here. in those cases, it almost makes surviving seem like a blessing in disguise in some strange way.

if that is the standard by which we judge what we can expect in terms of encountering -- it has intensified in this country, something like 700,000 last year, young people were stopped. it only intensifies and increases some encounters that leads to these kinds of episodes. it is interesting that you mentioned holding police accountable. i'm curious. can you go through the next slide? i mentioned something about this. i wanted to take on the way in which larger conversations about

racist policing is an abuse of police violence to repress the freedom -- literally, the freedom for people to walk freely in this country. i call this thing to balance card and it stands out. i mentioned you in your particular moment as an element where the conversation was shifting again to violence and your behavior that elicited this response. just as geraldo rivera said, trayvon martin should not have been walking suspiciously and heavy in that neighborhood. he is equally as responsible for george zimmerman taking his life. that is playing the violence card. whether because you look violent

border you are moving as though you are a threat to officers. the next slide for trayvon. in the case of trayvon, we have all been watching the story unfold in real-time. i think it is interesting that the police department recently submitted a letter of resignation. kind of in a form that you just called for. because of trayvon spotted for drugs, he was sitting as a john doe and the police station for three days. they did bring in his father -- case closed, the stand your ground law's protected zimmerman. there is a kind of acceptance of that form of vigilance in this case. we decided to resign in the wake

of the controversy. you probably know what happened, as of today, they reported that local citizens stood up in defense of him, compelled the city council to refuse to accept his resignation. therefore endorsing the police response to george zimmerman as acceptable and legitimate. i can't help but think that 20 years later on this anniversary, we really are repeating history, as you said. we really are saying that it is okay for young black men to die when we feel it's citizens we feel a legitimate fear that we can brand and stigmatize all of them as are most, and this is an unfortunate outcome. as mr. rodney king makes his final remarks, and where we are and where we should be going in regards to all of us, we will have a few moments for

questions. i know we ran a little long because we started late. but if you have a question, come over to the microphone that can be recorded, and also, in the interest of everyone here, make it snappy. that way more people get a shot. here we are at this moment. we have issued a police violence which is still on the table, there isn't racism here, citizens would you behave in such ways -- what should we be learning in light of what happened to you, in light of the trayvon case, what should we be learning from this? >> again, here's a situation where this guy is trying to look

good for the police. look like he is helping the neighborhood. and he knows that if i kill a black eye, i'm going to get away with it. that was the case, because it has been going on so long. they think everybody is going to believe it. i am not going to make too much comment about it, because i wanted to have a fair outcome we need justice. we need justice for trayvon in any way we can get it. something definitely has to take place, because i have felt the

same fear in being chased in the same way as me young man had his life taken. the stand your ground law, that seems like that was a lot of put in place for minorities, it you know when that because a lot of people -- you can look at a certain black person, they look scary, he looks scary to me, too. i'm not scared of them because i'm black. i know the feeling. it is easy for someone to say that i feel threatened by this person or this guy, he didn't feel threatened, he followed the guy down the street in the apartment building. he is older than this young man, you know? it is just uncalled for, you know? it is a shame that that kind of stuff is going on.

and that people can get away with that in my lifetime i'm a you know? the truth of the matter is we have to come together as people and somehow make it to where these kind of situations don't go unpunished like that. somebody else is going to be next. it is just a matter of time. what we need to do is people. >> this is a good thing? >> what do you mean it's a good thing? >> o., always a good thing. i'm so glad that al sharpton and them and jesse jackson the number still alive. >> this guy here, all of them, the people that get out there and march like that. they had a voice for some of us and when we didn't have a voice

ourselves. these type of people is what is paving the way for those cases so that when they come down the line, they can deal with them a lot better instead of just being able to get away. when something like this happened, the laws need to be changed. a lot of laws are just outdated and too old. there a are a lot of new ones that don't even make sense, you know? i look around sometimes in my neighborhood. i want to see see my own color when i want to feel strength. i look around now, and i see just a handful of them, you know? it is a hard feeling to go down the street knowing that it's hard to move for whatever

reasons -- and you don't see your own kind around anymore. and then you look at what is going on in the jails coming you have half of them in jail, you know? half of them are sitting in jail for nothing for things that they didn't even do. i would be in jail right now if they had it their way. luckily, i have little money to get out of this trouble here and get out of that trouble there, you know? it has to be a hard feeling when you're sitting in jail with self-pity and your whole life is gone. >> we are going to stop there. ..

>> and communities of color. so i'd like to open the floor up. i'm going to be a little pushy if you go long because i want everyone to have a chance. >> okay, hello. my name is chris, i'm an activist, i'm somebody who's worked around these issues all of my life. my questions are just, basically, going to be around black responsibility. i thought i heard you say earlier there were black police officers there when you were beaten? >> yeah, there were two black cops there on the scene -- >> while you was actually being beaten? >> yeah. >> what did they do? >> they didn't do anything. they ended up suing me at the end of the case for leaving them in, they call it a bogus lawsuit, $260,000 that i had to pay them. yeah, i had to pay them. >> okay. that was my question. and another thing about black responsibility, because i'm an activist, i challenge things, right?

my question to you, this was a cause that went all -- a case that went all other the world. i mobilized around your issue. i'd like to know, because you've made some pretty strong statements here today, what have you done in light of these cases? have you marched with reverend sharpton, reverend jackson, you know, in the light of these cases? again, we've had police brutality cases outside of your own, so i'd like to know if you've done anything as a result of what happened to you to help someone else? >> yeah. every chance i get when i have that mic or that speaker, the camera in front of me, i'll always speak on these type of issues, you know? every time i get a chance to. as far as actually getting out there and marching like that, i haven't gotten out there like that yet. i'm not afraid to, by no means not afraid to. um, and will given the opportunity and the situation is

right. not a problem with me. >> okay. thank you. >> thank you. >> hello. my name's leroyweters, and -- weathers, and i worked with adolescents, kids from 16-18 years old. my question or statement to you is do you feel -- at least i feel -- that the african-american males, particularly adults, need to step to the plate in that we can't be afraid of our kids. if you see a young man doing something that's inappropriate, for example are, the other day i was on the subway, and this kid stood up and started using profanity. and i approached him and told him, you know, that was inappropriate. and do you feel that more of us males need to do that when we see our young men acting in a inappropriate way as opposed to not paying any attention to it

and letting it go by? and another question on top of that, and i'll stop there, i think that our african-american women in general, i think that i feel that their conversation even though we as black men have messed up and made a lot of mistakes, that their conversations about us should be more in a positive realm as opposed to a negative realm. so i've asked you two questions. one, do you feel -- >> we got 'em. >> you got 'em. >> i'll help him with 'em. [laughter] so how to help young men who may be doing self-destructive things in public or in private and then whether the ladies are giving us too much of a hard way to go. >> you know, okay. okay, let's go to the young guys first. it's okay to speak up to 'em. and, i mean, mainly if you're older. you've got to be careful because

some of 'em is violent, you know? they pull a pistol out. [laughter] but it's the truth. you know, it's all about how you go at 'em, right? hey, bro, you can -- i know, it's hard to approach them. there's a way you can go about it though. you humble yourself to be able to tell him in a thoughtful way. >> right. >> rather than snatching him -- look, we need you with that type of energy to be doing this, doing that. >> right. >> i know what you mean. it's all about how you -- not everybody, but it's all about how you approach a person. >> right. >> and got at 'em. >> proving that they can be approachable. >> yes. it's all about how you go at 'em. the second one? >> the second one was about the reputation, what role sisters can play in lifting up, i assume? that's the question. not my question. >> yeah. i've had some really, i've had some -- you know, women are really strong, especially black

women. they are very, very -- that's how i have survived all these years, you know? gentlemen have been good, too, but for the most of it i've, i've had to depend on women a lot to get to this point where i'm at today. and -- [applause] and i'm not just saying that, you know? just to get on a woman's good side. it's true. i've needed, i have needed a woman to help me out in a lot of situations, you know, that i just couldn't have a male help me, help me do, you know. but i haven't gotten this far with just males. aye gotten this far -- i've gotten this far with women. and males. but my hat really goes off to the ladies, you know, that have helped me over the years. your species is a -- [laughter] one that i will never understand. it's a real strong one. it's a real strong one, and i

don't -- some women can really, really surprise you, you know? they have their own way of thinking. >> you better quit while you're ahead. >> they all right. i've gotten this far. [laughter] >> peace, brothers. i'm a lifelong activist also. my question is what individuals and/or organizations in los angeles are on the forefront of fighting police brew untilty -- brutality right now? and my second question is, if you had a chance to talk to president obama -- because i was very disappointed how he handled when skip gates was arrested in his own house, and i thought that was an opportunity to deal with the police/community relations. if you had a chance to talk to president obama, what would you suggest to him as a way to move forward on this issue, taking into consideration the white backlash because of the majority

white population in this country? >> um, if i had the opportunity. um -- >> you better get ready. he might give you a call, new book out. >> no, i would ask him to, to make issues about it, speak on it, you know? speak more about it now that you're in office, you know? you know, the people have gotten you in there, and black and whites have waited so long to get you in there, you know? speak out on some of those issues a lot more, you know? because that's one of the reasons why you're in the office now also, you know? no man can bring peace to this earth. no man will be able to do that at all, but you can sure make it a lot easier, you know, by putting the issues on the forefront while you're in the office, in that position be, speak on the issues that will help, you know, the black communities b and minorities a lot more than what, you know,

has been going on. because, you know, we've been, like, shoved under the carpets too long, you know? not spoken on. >> are there a couple of organizations you can just mention briefly that you worked with over the years or that you want to give a shout out to who have done good work in the community to stem police violence? i mean, almost all of you know ramparts division of the lapd was exposed for terrible cases of corruption and brutality, planting drugs on suspects, killing suspects, and the feds took over under a federal consent decree. so all of this happened after you, but it certainly gave powerful evidence of just what was going on on the l.a. police force under daryl gates. so any of those grassroots organizations that were fighting, fighting against that? >> well, the naacp was, for one, that was one. and they had a real strong voice

when what happened to me happened. and so i, you know, my hat goes off to them. not familiar with too many of the other ones, you know, organizations, i'll be honest with you. but the naacp has really been, has really helped me over the years, you know? >> okay. >> maurice lewis, i'm a retired city and state corrections officer. i think you should consider doing community work even in san quentin because -- [inaudible] >> thanks. thank you, and i will. i will. [applause] >> how you doing?

>> ronald brown. my question is twofold, basically. one is i heard you do a radio interview last week, and in that interview you made an observation about the cry in the trayvon martin case. and you said that in your own opinion based on your experience that sounded like a death cry that you could relate to. and, of course, the experts came together unanimously and said that it clearly was not zimmerman's cry, but they didn't say that it was trayvon's either. can you speak to that a little more? and then, secondly, if you would -- to both of y'all, if you will. address this piece. historically black men in this country has always been an endangered species, okay? the day that we got on that slave ship to trayvon martin, post-trayvon martin to the latest. we've had several since trayvon martin. and there's an effort to raise this issue as a human rights violation. malcolm told us years ago we needed to take it before the

world court. and there's an effort to try to make that a reality, and i want to know would you join in that effort? and i'd like to get some insight from both of you all around this second question and some direction around that piece. thank you. >> so the first question was about the cry, your own intimate connection to that wailing of suffering. >> you know, i'm all too familiar with that sound. it was the same, that was the same scream and hollering that i did, you know, 20 years ago. so there's no doubt in my mind that i knew i was supposed to have been dead and that i was screaming for my life. the same scream that this baby boy was hollering and screaming, it didn't take me but seconds to know the scream is a death scream jutte before you're about to die -- just before you're about to die. it's the same scream. there's no difference. >> and to the question of the future of activism, um, building on malcolm x's own organizing

around really bringing america's racial injustices before a world community, before the u.n., you know, shifting the focus from civil rights to human rights? i think we've heard a lot about sort of what you think about, but if you had a final thought about how important that is today for organizing around this in the an international context and to draw on as many resources and communities and political players, um, as possible. >> it's definitely a need for, you know, to have all those different organizations in this world that we live in now. because, you know, before thicks get -- things get better, the truth is they will get worse,? and so -- there is definitely a need for 'em, you know, for all

those different organizations as long as they're doing the right thing, you know? and the organization is, you know, solid. but there is definitely a need for it. like i say, i wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for a lot of movements, civil rights movements back in the days, you know? people that died before me. i wouldn't, they set the ground work, you know, for me to -- it was a fight, it was a fight all the way, you know, to receive justice in my case. and without the marchs and stuff in the past and, you know, and the lives that was lost, there wouldn't be no me here today. there wouldn't be a lot of us. and i hate that it's not a lot of programs that young kids can go to these days too, you know? when i was coming up, it was programs that kind of prepared us for the world, you know? we'd get together, and we'd go on these camps with the parks and be a part of the community

and go cutting grass and doing stuff for the city, cleaning the streets. and we did that as a group. these kids, they don't got -- my year was kind of, felt like the last of, a little bit of the last of that going on, you know? the organization with the communities and stuff. so those, these organizations that you're talking about, they are, they have really helped over the years, you know? they really -- >> i'll just add to that that we are in an era of mass incarceration, and we've clearly as a political project chosen to spend money to build prisons and to warehouse people. we've chosen to treat drugs as a criminal offense in stark contrast to alcohol which mr. king will tell you is not a productive drug of choice. >> right. >> but it's perfectly legal. it contributes to far more deaths in this country, alcohol-related accidents and

incidents and homicides altogether, far outstripping all narcotics-related deaths. so these are all political choices. and the way that we choose to enforce drug laws, the way that we choose to enforce marginalize poor communities, all political choices. so it takes a political process to unravel that. i would simply say that one of the things that's important to me as an individual in taking on this issue is unraveling the voices of what i call the silent black majority. they function in many ways in the same way that the silent white majority that we're all too familiar with. which is to say that they make this about behavior and not about politics, not about policy. and so as long as it remains a question about, um, individual behavior, as long as it is about what you say to a young man on the subway and not about the

community that he comes from, the community that he's going to or the school that he just left or the way he's generally despised or stigmatized in our society or there's much more money waiting to put him in prison for the next 20 years as opposed to waiting. if we're not going to have those same conversations at the same time we advise him to have proper manners in public, then we're part of the problem. so that, to me, is something that we all have to contribute to. [applause] so that brings us to the end of this program. prose, please, please -- please, please, please -- no, she's with me. please, join me out in the langston hughes atrium for a book signing with mr. king, and since we're all here together, please, join me in one final round of applause. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here online. type the author or book title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search. you can also share anything you see on booktv.org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. booktv streams live online for 48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. >> i'd like to talk a bit about my book, "a soldier's dream," and then ask darren and the audience for any questions about it. this book came about as a result of my reading a newspaper article in the summer of 2007 about a young american soldier who was being hailed as a martyr by iraqis. and when i read that story, i thought, boy, that sounds interesting.

how did that happen, who was this man. and he had died in an ied attack. the man's name was captain travis patriquin, and in the history of the iraq war, i'd never heard about an american soldier being hailed as a martyr. and this happened in a city that was then the epicenter of the iraqi insurgency and, in fact, at the military memorial service for patriquin and his fallen colleagues, army specialist vincent and marine major megyn mcclung, a delegation of iraqi sheikhs and army and be security officers came in to pay their respects to the fallen americans and to offer islamic prayers of mourning for them which was a striking scene in the history of the iraq war. i had to find out more about the story. and as i interviewed scores of travis' american and iraqi colleagues, i came to realize that perhaps his story is critical to understanding america's role on the world

stage in the post-bin laden, post-arab spring era and maybe even to discover more about what it truly means to be an american. the historical impact of what travis patriquin and his colleagues did was rather striking. in fact, i came to realize that patriquin was a key player at a key moment in the iraq war. in fact, the war began to turn around in mid 2006, months before the famous surge started happening, as patriquin and his military and intelligence colleagues helped iraqis launch something that was called the awakening which was a sunni tribal revolt against al-qaeda. al-qaeda, of course, has never really conquered and held large pieces of territory in the world. there are some exceptions. but what happened in anbar province was al-qaeda, basically, conquered the province. and they set up a parallel government. sharia law, courts, a parallel

ministries even of government. and the rule of this version of radical, radical islam or anti-islam i would call it was so offensive that the local iraqis rebelled against it, and we helped them, and the awakening was born. the awakening facilitated the surge, and both turning points helped save iraq from what was a total collapse and total full-scale civil war in 2006 to a different kind of outcome which is still terribly dangerous, but it's transformed in the last five years. and i first wanted to know who travis patriquin was. who is this man who iraqis said helped shape the course of the iraq war? he was actually born in the midwest, and he joined the army on the day he finished high school in 1993. he was a devout catholic and christian who happened to believe that -- he refused to

believe that his religion was right and other religions were wrong. in fact, he studied the quran very carefully and credit concld that authentic islam was our greatest ally, america's greatest ally in conquering al-qaeda and helping to lead and inspire the world. radical insight that certainly changed my views on islam and how we behave on the world stage. he was fascinated with arab history, arab culture, arab food, arab poetry. he learned arabic thanks to the military for a year, over a year. he studied arabic intensively. and he traveled to the middle east, to kuwait, to jordan and plunged into middle eastern culture. and he loved it. he became a special forces support soldier, and he went to afghanistan in 2002 in the first wave of american soldiers to strike back at al-qaeda and

the taliban after 9/11. and he won a bronze star for leading troops in this combat there. now, in 2005 he was assigned to be the tribal affairs officer for the u.s. military in ramadi, iraq, which was one journalist called it the most fucked-up place on earth. reporters would scamper through the ruins of ramadi and say this reminds me of hiroshima and dresden and stalingrad. it had collapsed completely. it was the provincial capital of anbar province and basically the headquarters of the taliban caliphate that were attempting to launch in iraq. right away three things were obvious to travis and his colleagues. they had to attack al-qaeda forces with firepower, and they also had to rebuild the shattered local iraqi police force and reach out to the remaining tribal sheikhs, a lot of whom had fled the horror of this.

and there weren't many left. and although he was only a junior officer, patriquin became the keeley yeason between the military and the sunni sheikhs in their attempt to launch the awakening movement that helped transform the war. i think travis patriquin is a symbol not only of the meshes who served in iraq, but the americans who died this and the many who have tried to help build a new nation out of the horror of this war. perhaps the best way of understanding who patriquin was was to hear iraqis say about him, what they told me. in the words of one sheikh, the man who created the awakening movement, travis patriquin was, quote, an extraordinary man who played a very, very important role. he was my brother. he spoke arabic, and he looked like an arab man. when we -- when he came at the start of the awakening, we needed someone like him. he was humble and friendly, and he was always helping me. he helped us with weapons and

ammunition, he helped deliver food to people who needed help, who were in trouble, and he defended women and children against the terrorists. he was very, very important in building rapport between the u.s. and the sheikhs. captain patriquin was extraordinary. one baghdad-born interpreter told me patriquin was in love with iraq. he was addicted to the culture. he was obsessed by it. he loved the food, the people, he loved everything about iraq. and another baghdad-born interpreter told me iraqis can like you, but they loved him for a lot of reasons. he had a magical personality and a trustful face. his presence was noted immediately. iraqis love to talk to men with a moustache, and he had a moustache, a suntan, dark skin and a big, muscular body. he looked like an arab. beside that, his heart was connecting to these people. for the average american soldier, iraqis can be hard to sit down and talk to, but when an iraqi sat down to eat with

captain patriquin, he didn't pick the it. -- fake it. i'll do whatever i can to show you i'm genuine. he gave iraqis the most honorable and honest picture of the american people and the american military in particular. they thought he was the true american heart. and this iraqi-born interpreter concluded: my god, there is no one in the world who could have formed a closer connection with the iraqi people than travis did. they adored him. a former iraqi air force or general told me americans haven't appreciated the lesson of what patriquin and his colleagues did. it was a miracle, an absolute miracle. america has not learned the lesson it should have. we need people like patriquin in the american military. not just for iraq, but for all the middle east, afghanistan, pakistan and elsewhere. people who are principled and people who can win the hearts and minds of the people with their culture and their minds, not their weapons.

patriquin thought we had to reach tout the grassroots who were in iraq, that we couldn't try to do things from the top down because the iraqi government was nonexistent or horribly dysfunctional. and many american policymakers were trying to force things from the top down. that was not working. he also thought we should reach out to insurgents. he thought we should identify insurgents who were reconcilable and negotiate with them and talk to them and try to flip them over to our side to fight al-qaeda. because the insurgency, of course, was very factionalized. and patriquin also thought that we had to be humble and show respect to iraqis and deal with iraq on its own terms rather than try to make us more like -- make them more like us. i think that's a tremendous insight for how america does business in the world. he said if you want to stabilize things, you're going to have to cut the crap on all this idealism. and deal with the sheikhs.

now, the sheikh who was his iraqi partner in all this who launched the awakening, who really created all this, was some people thought the tony soprano of western iraq. he was an alleged gangster, a really rough character. but he was also a inspiring leader, it turned out. he was only in his late 30s, and he was the man who declared war on al-qaeda. and his closest american contact in this war was travis pat patriquin -- and patriquin told anybody who would listen, he's the key to ramadi, sheikh si tar. he's huge, he's the center of gravity for us. maybe he can change everything. this might be the way out of iraq for us. and it turns out to have largely occurred the way patriquin wanted it to because sitar proved to be very effective in nighting al-qaeda -- fighting al-qaeda in this period, and

tribes began to flip from neutral or pro-al-qaeda to the coalition side. in my book there are a few scenes of patriquin in action. one was when patriquin first met sitar, and he shows up with a moustache, he speaks air arabic, and sitar says, basically, he says what part of iraq are you from? are you from the north or the south? and patriquin, as he often did, he would say something like, no, i'm from chicago. i'm an american. and they -- many be iraqis were befuddled by that because they thought he might have been an iraqi who left iraq as a child, gone over here and grown up and then came back with a funny midwestern accent. and they met and quickly became very close allies in this struggle. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org.