minutes. [applause] good afternoon. i'm the directors of the john f kennedy presidential library and museum. on behalf of tom executive directors of the kennedy library foundation, and all of miley brair and foundation colleagues. i thank you all for coming easer our c-span viewers for tuning in. i acknowledge the yesous underwriters of the kennedy lead sponsor bank of america, race young, boston capital, the boston foundation and the media partners. let me state from the outset as clearly as i can that few individual did more to help jfk get elected than lyndon johnson.

yet it also must be noted before the inspired partnership, the two men were rivals. this comes as no surprise as throughout their lives both were fiercely competitive. my favorite about lbj is the story after the presidential library opened. the former president wanted to ensure that his visiting numbers topped those. he came up with a strategy. as you may know. the the library is on the campus of university of texas and located next to the football stadium. have them at nouns it he urged there are plenty of bat rooms with no lines at miley brair. -- knowing each -- and don't think when those numbers numbers are periodically released today that the presidential library directors don't look to see how we compare with the peers.

the only time it lead to a face to face exchange when he invited them to a debate before the texas caucus of the beginnings of the 1960 convention which lbj opened would be brokered in order to provide -- the that he was two young referring to kennedy as a lightweight who needed a little gray in the hair. quote, the forces of evil will have no mercy for innocence he proclaimed, no glan try for inexperience. and there are prompted a debate without mentioning jfk by name he contrasted the ab absenteeism of some senators with the own leadership in the united states senate. i assume jfk, replied, when he aspoke that senator johnson was talking about some other candidate about not me. i want to commend -- i was not present on the occasions. i was not majority leader. so i come here today full of information from senator johnson. full of affection for him and

strongly in support of him. as majority leader. having detaped the late minute challenge he went into the win the nomination and immediately reached out to lynn don john to serve as the running made. a portion which is now retold and excelling fashion by my friend and colleague mark gup grove in the as one reviewer written he offers not another great man buying if i but an extraordinary of a fascinating contract enduring president. the new volume and the own words others observations what he did and how he did. the phone conversations leading to a balanced full disclosure depiction of our 36th president.

the moderator daily beast as well as the cnn commentator. he's the author of independent nation, how it can change american politics and editor of deadline artists. the forum yum speech writer for new york mayor after the attacks of september 11th he and his teafm were policeman and firefighters. and essay he wrote on the attacks one acclaim is the sing the best piece written in the wake of the tragedy. one has written that mr. avlon talking about the politics the way espn anchors talk about sports highlights. captured perfectly by the title wing nuts. how the lune tack fringe is attacking america. let me know he is married to margaret hoover who is president hoover's great granddaughter. lady bird johnson granted an interview with two searches who

are researching a national history day project which they would and perform they told her the stage would be simple with the two students seated side by side with a bit of dry ice to make it look like heaven. what makes you think lyndon made it up there? [laughter] whatever lyndon john's soul may rest, i trust he is looking with favor upon these proceedings. proud that we've gathered to discussion his presidency. c-span has chosen to record a session on the new ground breaking book which means the kennedy library gets to vote the millions of viewers. with all sincerity. i nod my head, gray haired as it may be with respect anded a

admiration for you, the new biography, for the johnson presidential library and for the man it masterfully honors. ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming to the kennedy library mark gup grove and john avlon. [applause] >> guest: i guess the competition never really ends. mark, this is an extraordinary book you've done. it is a portrait of a man by those who new him. it doesn't fall into that trap of so many somatic. you get a sense of what johnson's leadership style was. and it is such a contrast leadership style with many other presidents. because we're here at the jfk library, the book begins with that awful moment of the presidency where lady bird johnson said people looked at

the living and wished for the dead. the burden which he assumed the presidency and the contrast talk about the relationship and how they were received. >> thanks, john. i'll answer the question. i want to respond to my dear friend and colleague. by saying lady bird is true. i think we had more visitors than jfk library. [laughter] the two were completely different. jfk and lyndon johnson were fundamentally different human beings. i think that lbj was keenly aware that he was succeeding somebody who was so graceful, and who was almost set an impossible standard by which to be measured. but liz carpenter who worked for the johnsons was kind of the dorothy parker of the political set in the 1960s. i think in capsulated the

difference between the two men very eloquently. she cede that i think that presidents is be summed up in one word. kennedy inspired. which johnson was incapable of doing and johnson delivered. i think that's absolutely true. if jfk, in my view, begs to be judged by his words, he is so inspiring, he's so eel consistent, he's so visionary. that's not what your country can do for your. berliner, we choose the moon, and johnson was judged by the deeds. what he accomplished. what he did. he wasn't particularly graceful as the media personality. he delivered. he knew how to get things done. if you look at the legislative record, this is formable president, and probably the most important president legislatively in the law.

look at the full sweep of the great society, and how it residence nates today. it is absolutely remarkingble. one of the things, i do think that the way johnson is being remembered going forward that legislative accomplishment is such a clear contrast it's not kennedy but so many other. someone who really knew washington. someone who knew how to get things done. and yet, someone who even the age was such a vivid figure and you quote, person after person who worked for him talking about the complexity of man. the way he em boyed all these predictses that were vivid and in your face, he could be profane and patriotic and inspiring and take your off balance and intimidating. i wonder if the choice to do this oral biography, is that in part a way to capture the different facets of the complex personality? >> guest: yeah, i think the

challenge that a biographer has in capturing lyndon johnson he is so complex. the way ensure are it was handed in bounds, which i think a lot of the biographies about lyndon johnson is not. to get myriad impressions. er haveverbatim. very often, people have these intrinsically contradictly views about him. part of the reason is he treated everybody differently. he knew what your hot button was. and your hot button was different than the person next to you. he got things done so effectively. that's how he was such a purr swayive and effective legislate her. he ons human psychologist. he would treat you differently than irch else. your impression is vailed but might completely contradict.

>> let's go into that. there's a famous johnson treatment where he flatters. but beneath that is you said psychologist. i was striewk by one quote from hubert humphrey. he was a psychiatrist. unbelievable man in terms offing people up. what their templement was. this was his genius and talking about how he would able liz every single member. how much was an mall understanding of people's weakness and to exploilt them. how much was a sophisticated barometer what people wanted as well as what they didn't want. i think it was probably a combination of both. jack talked about him being fascinating. he looked at him he would a panther. it's a beautiful animal. he was ready to pounce. and johnson, you know, johnson had that animal listic element. he was incredibly smart.

because he sometimes comes across as being crude. i don't think we give him credit for the intengt elect. he was incredibly smart. he got things, you know, he got them very quickly. he have a great mind. so i think it's a celebration of both, john. i mean, that's so key to the effectivenesses. the unparallel, literally unparallel record he was able to achieve. bring the hills and master the senator majority leader to the presidency. we may not see again. the real questions about whether man like johnson the media sach ratted age could come president and is very tenuous relationship between who he was in private. so effect livly lobbying legislators. and then he kind of stiff end in front of the cameras. it's the image gap you talk about. one thing beneath that one of the people talks about how he

seemed to be trying to impress the harvard academic crowd with the public per son that. one of the fascinating things you see with johnson and maybe shared with nixon in terms of the feeling about jack kennedy is that real resentment for northeast elites that we came up the hard way. and that distrust and anger and resentment at the these received elites. talk about how that motivated him and was a con strays. >> i think he had a deep resentment for the harvard he would call these or the north eastern establishment and the kennedys in so many ways epitomize that. he would say, he would call meetings together in "the office." he'd say it's interesting how i look at the substantial and we have three people from yale, and we have two people from harvard. and one person from dart mouth and the president of the united states from southwestern texas

university. teachers college. it's amazing thing. and one could see him, i think, he did resent them in a certain respect. one could see him saying i'll show them what the ivy league boys what the country boy can do. he wielded the country fied texas personality to show these folks. i think but the interesting contradiction, again it is a man so complex and ripe with contradiction. he almost modeled a presidential personality, which he only assumed in front of the camera. and it was completely contrite. it had nothing to do with johnson. it was totally unauthentic. he was a long time colonist for time "time" magazine and knew jonson said it was a nervous bow

to the harvard fake faculty. it wasn't quite enough. the way jacobson was so effective when he was johnson. he let himself be himself. that's how we get things done so effectively. that's probably a good opportunity to segway into a semi softball. which is the favorite johnson story. >> guest: there's a conversation in the book that i recount, and it would be almost impossible to relate it and do it justice. you have to hear it and raid it. it's johnson calling of the founder and president of the company he's ordered custom made slacks. he shows the micromanagement.

because he gets very specific an tom call details for how he wants these pants to fit. you can't make it up. if you saw it on saturday night live, you'd say that's farfetched. it's true. it really true. it happened. i will say of the 643 hours of taped telephone conversations which are featured until the book, there's not one that even comes close to the level of crudity. but those who knew johnson don't deny it's part of his personality. his personality is so broad and deep that he was certainly capable of that. and but you dot it hear. it's pretty remarkable even triptd. it does communicate a couple things. one, they talk about how would fixuate so intensely on

achieving a certain goal. in this case getting a pair of pants that fit. nothing would stop him from achieving that burglar goal. and at the same time, he'd say, flattery and the fascinating yo yo that you see. >> guest: at one point, john, he says, now, now, you got to get the pants right away. i need them for summer pants down at the ranch. nog is more important than six pairs of economized pants. but the very end of the conversation, joe haggered, who is completely taken by surprise that the president of the united states is calling him to order pants. said where should i send them? he says white house. it's wonderful. a good motivational tool. there's nothing more important.

if i can relate one more story. the life story people will talk about how different it was to work for johnson. we might talk about that later. he was really a task master. but nobody, he expected nobody to work harder than he worked. but there's a wonderful story from a guy named severe pierson who was a white house counsel. he talks about the days of the tradition from lbj to nixon. johnson wanted to make sure that everybody open the staff was taken care of. they had a place to go after working at the white house for him. it was part of being loyal. he held that up as the most important thing in politics. loyalty. he said that time and time again. so he signs outs of the white house. can which you more orless had to do. the president got the log every day to determine who was in the white house and who wasn't there. given his pension for micromanagement. he always knew who was there and

who wasn't. he goings out to los angeles to interview for from a very good top-notch law firm in los angeles. and he's meeting with the partners in the beautiful conference room, and a secretary comes in very flustered and says mr. peerson, the president of the united states is on the line for you. the president is calling. and the partner says, you know what? you need to take this. we'll adjourn from the conference room. and take as long as you want and we'll tell you when we want you top me gets on the phone i don't know if you noticed but i signed out of the white house. i'm not there today. he says, yes, i know. he said, what can i do for you mr. president. he said nothing. i thought the call would help. [laughter] so that contra dicks the ruthless johnson you hear of.

everybody who worked for him has a story of his great generosity. and that level of loyalty which you said was the preimminent political vur chew. >> when you're going through the transcripts. these are the presidential tapes that didn't get someone impeached. they really are seminars in political power. what are some of the common traits, we'll talk about one in particular that you see when you get this sense of janson, you know, as it was in real time trying to convince to go his way. >> guest, you know, i think it's a will that lead to the title of the book. he wanted things. by god, when he wanted them, he found a way to get them down. you hear the intensity which he conducts the business of presidency. while the tapes of richard

nixson are, you know, are blemished on the record, things are condemned. richard nixson by the light of history prip the telephone tapes of lyndon johnson indicated. we didn't know it existed. it was not revealed they actually existed until after lyndon johnson died when the assistant lead the then director of lbj library hare middleton know they were in at vault somewhere. when the johnsons decided when mrs. johnson consented to opening them in the 1990s, they had no idea what was on the tapes. absolutely no idea. and as you listen to them, i think they shed very positive light on the johnson legacy. when you look at the johnson legacy, i think the end of miss administration people were preoccupied with vietnam. it was the big fact of our foreign policy in the domestic policy. but clearly i think civil rights

is as vietnam received in the memory the legacy of civil rights is clear every more present in a daily lives and i think will lead to his not only reassessment but indication. there's one conner conversation that's in the book where he's given the johnson treatment in person to george wails alabama governor. it's a remarkable -- at the pivot toll moment in history. i don't know if you care to read it to the audience. it's on the left-hand side there. >> guest: i'll be happy to do this. >> start here. >> guest: sure. let me set the stage. wallace reads the notion of sending federal troops into alabama when the the voting rights issue was at play. and alabama was almost at the boiling point.

and so wallace is call to the white house. and like jfk, lbj had a rocking chair in his oval office. he was six feet three inches tall and he would frequently have where john is sitting on a couch that is for a lower than the rocking chair. and johnson would rock the chair up and literally lean over them and look down at them. and now bear in mind, as i mentioned, lbj is six feet three inches tall and george wallace is four five feet inches tall. it's like a snake over a monogoogs. it's ridiculous. i'll read the passage. he said, so he's asking george send federal troops in. wallace says i don't have the power. he said, yes, there's no point

about that. johnson said why don't you let them vote. wallace says, well, now i don't have the power. that belongs to the country registrars in the state of alabama. wallace insisted no. he didn't have a legal authority. johnson says, well, george why don't you purr stwaid them. he said, i don't think i can do that. he said, now, don't shit me about the per sweysive powers. you know i sat down this morning when i got up all three of the tv said, i'm going to quote this, all three of the tv says in my oval office were on. you were talking to the press, george, and you were hammering me. i heard you. you were hammering me. >> he said no. he said you were hammering me. you were good. you were so good. i almost believed it myself. [laughter] but then at the very end of the

conversation, he says, now george, you worked your life in politics, let's not think about 1965. let's think about 1985. neither of us will be around. we'll be dead. now what do you want people saying about you in your state of alabama? do you want people to say, george wallace, he built or do you want people to say george wallace, he hated. he was good. expwranson was that good. and sure enough, george wallace relented. we got federal troops and we eventually got voting rights act much 1965 which is the most important legislation in civil rights without the voting rights act of 1965 you don't have barack obama in the white house in 2012. >> definitely not. let's talk about johnson's commitment to civil rights. because it confused a lot of people.

here he was in the southern democrat. he was referring to the stereo types about himself before he became president. he was the confederate. he said why am i advance. he ho rebuke and challenge many of his. he formed the cross coalition to get civil rights done. talk about the roots of his commitment to civil rights. did it have to do with his grew up in poverty. there's one antidote about the personal aids recounting the trouble he had driving true the south. and the legislative skill it is took to pass with bipartisanship support. >> guest: i think that johnson scotle, -- psychology he felt things deeply. whether it be the sting of the judgment of the eastern establishment, or or people living in poverty. and he called, he declared famously a war on poverty in the

state of the union speech in 1964. and, you know, he says, this administration here with declares a war on poverty. you can see in his eyes, he hateds the very notion of poverty. i think there's a very formative experience that he talked about. and the most important of his political life 1965 when he's talking about the importance of civil rights. and the experience was, between his junior and senior year in college, he taught school at in a very small town of texas, which was principally plaited by mexican-americans who really largely forgotten. and these kids had a just -- the immafnlg these kids in poverty, and the victims of bigotry and hate tried were

seared in his consciousness. and he never forget those kids. when he got to the white house, he would say to his staff, don't forget about the kids. don't forget about the mexican-american school kids. his fight was not african-americans. it was about the hispanic kids that he knew, but more over, it was an attack on poverty. he didn't want to see people poor. and disenfranchised in this country. he felt that deeply. i can talk about one, there are two stories that show how the civil rights act of 1964 came about. the civil rights act of 1964 ended the jim crow the appar tide in the country. the first is with richard russell. richard was a democratic senator from georgia who was a friend and mentor to lbj.

he realized in order to get the civil rights act of 1964 passed, he has to run over richard russell. he invites him to the oval office. they had the intense conversation. and russell says, you know, you have the legislative muster to get the civil right the act. i don't think jack kennedy had it. you do. i will warn you, if you do it, you'll lose the southern states to the republican party. and you may way lose the election of 1964. and johnson, the great creature of power, hears this and quietly replies, if that's the price for good will, i will gladly pay. a just tremendous political courage. while we think of johnson, we think about the means of lyndon johnson, all his had powers and

persuasion, how he hoarded pow and how he craved. we don't think about the end how he expended liberal. it was things like that transformed the country. the other story. in order to get the civil rights act passed he had to engender a relationship with the republicans. there was a conversation i recount the senator majority leader which he say website i was -- which he says, i was just at your state fair in illinois, and i went to an exhibit, it's the land of lincoln, and you're worthy the land of lincoln. i'll make sure if you pass this bill, you get credit. sure enough, the first pen he gives out after signing the civil rights act of 1964 is not to martin luther king. it's to the illinois.

there's a certain civility with the way that washington behaved. that we just don't see in our current age. to that end, you know, his the bobby baker. she said was one of johnson's favorite. any idiot can kick someone down but takes a carpenter to build one. it's not about destroying. it's about building. it's getting the ball down the field. working with dirkson to form a coalition. what do you think of the master of the senate he was. johnson would think about what the senate has become? and the kind of values he tried to instill to get legislation accomplished but keep a sense of national purpose behind policy? >> guest: yeah, the favorite biblical quote was isaiah. come let us reason together. i'm confident if he saw

washington, would think there's a birth of reason and togetherness. there isn't the unity. there are a lot of reasons for that. lawmakers don't know each other. their kids don't play on the same baseball team or go to the same ballet class. the wives aren't playing bridge together. i think it would -- the lack of civility. >> that the last several decades, we're going to get to vietnam in a second. no question, cast a huge shadow over his legacy in the '70s and '80s. the sheer amount of legislative accomplishment in 1965, in particular, the way you see him acts as senator majority leader. that you anemic set of experiences that very rarely do we have in one man. that enormous amounts of legislation that passed that really creates the america we

know. talk about that press. he did approach it that way. after one win there was no time to ease rest. maybe why it provoked a backlash or at least the credit that deserved in the eyes of the immediate aftermath of history. >> guest: yeah. i think that he felt that political capital was tantamount to green stance. you remember that you collected the stamps and you butt them in a -- you put them in the book. he. ed to spend them. he wanted to collect his green stamps to connell the analogy. he wanted to buy something meaningful. that's what he did with 1965. he knew that he was at the peak of his political powers. and he wanted to spend that in the right way. and 1965, i would venture to say may be the most important year legislatively of the 20th century. i don't they maybe 1933 compares

when lbj was ushering in the new deal. if you look into my office, having a shadow box, you seen it. all of the pens that lbj usinged to sign legislation throughout the course that have one year. and in one box, you have pens, the voting rights act, of 1965, the immigration act, the most sweeping immigration reform history of america. you have the pen that creates the national for the humanities and the art website you have clean air, you have elementary and secondary education and higher education, which is federal aid to education for the first time. which, you know, is results in soaring rights from high school and college and on and on and on. it is astounding. what the man did in one year. and he knew it wouldn't last. he was pressured.

it didn't last. what created that political capital was the landslide win of 1964. we are in a re-elect year too. i don't think that anyone thinks that the current president could hope for a land slived those proportions. talk about the way johnson approached that re-elect effort against barry gold water. he defeats nelson rockefeller. the map begins to shift. the south begins to vote republican for the first time. johnson really won 45 states. 44. talk about johnson's approach to getting the land-slide win. >> >> guest: well, you know, it was a no barred campaign without question. i think the main thing, not so much johnson. it's gold water. gold war realize z he doesn't have a chance of winning. he realizes that. you hear that in the oral

history in the book. he knows that with the mart come of jfk and the extension to the presidency of lyndon and johnson does in the first year and the cirn doesn't have an appetite for change. this is not his had moment. and i must say, he's graceful about it. there's the two remain friendly throughout the course. they even have a meeting at the oval office which they say they will not make race an issue in the campaign. knowing that it can be used by either side to divide the country and gain advantage. that's a remarkable moment. it is where the two given that the amount of history being made and the tension these two nominees come together and say we will not, you know, try manipulate race for political purposes. that's been the story of american politics to the point. >> guest: he had one of the

worst taglines. in your heart, you know he's right. that's akin to saying take this medicine. it's good for you. >> i think one of the johnson supporters said in your guts that didn't help. >> guest: but gold water comes across gracious and there is a sense of deep disagreement but civil disagreement that i think does speak to bigoner are a. and johnson to the one presidential run gets the unbelievable landslide. we'll go to vietnam. he left office with the only surplus until bill clinton. this -- that is so the opposite what you think about the great society. >> guest: yeah. you're right. the last president before bill clinton in 1998, i believe, to throw money back. i think it was $3.2 billion that he put back into the federal. nowly say, john, that john there

was political pressure there. that the appetite for legislation among, you know, the republicans in the house and sane had waned significantly by that time. and to a certain degree, it was dictated by the republicans. he was fiscally. how much was accomplished during the course of johnson years how many programs went into effect. they were extent -- by today's standards. >> yeah at least at first. let's talk vietnam. one of the things that struck me in reading the book is how much johnson had been influenced by as we all are, by the examples in his own lifetime of the weakness in munich. when he was is a young congressman. when he was perceived in the weakness of fdr in stall lynn and the aftermath of the cold

war. and criticizes iraq for not stopping -- ike. leads him into vietnam down a row that he knows he believes must be done and he believes can be done quickly for the '68 election. talk about that roach to world affairs that maybe doesn't residence nate across the generation as clearly that conviction. >> sure. we think when we think of the domino theory we think of the cold war. it had played out in world war ii. he went to munich and struck an agreement apieced adolf hitler in 1939 and came back to the uk to proclaim peace. well, we didn't have peace at all. with a we got was world world war ii. what johnson said there's a chapter by the name, he says be no men with umbrellas.

as he's refer together hapless champ beer. he's going to relent to the communist. he truly believed he to stave off the communist agracious vietnam. if he didn't, the other nations would fall. and more over, it would em bolden the chinese and the soviets to grab land elsewhere in the world. so he thought he was preventing world war ii. and believed that to the dying day. you had it take a stand in vietnam. there's an interesting conversation, though, two conversations that i relay. both happen to be the on the same day. one is with richard russell, the friend and men ton democratic senator from georgia. and another is with george bundy. in the later of conversation. you can hear the conversation the profound ambivalence what's going on in vietnam.

and whether he should escalade the war or not. there's one quote that's haunting from johnson. he said, what the hell is vietnam to be me? i can't win it. and i can't get out. and it's so -- but what i didn't appreciate until i truly deviled into the book is how much he anguished over trying to find a peaceful resolution to the war which is ultimately one of the reasons that he didn't run for re-election again in 1968. he wanted to spend his final months trying to find a peaceful and honorable way out of vietnam. where, by the way, both of his sons-in-law were serving at that point in time. the famous picture where he's anguished he's listening to one of the sons in law from the frontlines. >> guest: yeah. >> exactly. and you all may know the photograph john is referring

to. he's bent over in pure anguish on the conference -- cabinet room table listening to his son in vietnam relating his experience in vietnam. and it's interesting, we think of the -- in terms of ikeography, the johnson presidency is bookended in tragedy. we think, of course, of the famous photograph of him being sworn in on-air force one in the wake of the assassination. that's one tragedy. at the end of the tragedy with the face down on the cabinet room table dealing with the anguish of vietnam. >> that says that the country is slipping away from him. so quickly. that johnson is jen use as human psychology is one on one. he increasingly in the end of the term had trouble understanding the math psychology what was going on with the protest movement. and thing a any, i think the

press secretary describes it as johnson being in the unreality not being able to comprehend what was going on with the protest. >> guest: lyndon johnson -- he didn't fear the protesters. he didn't fear them as much as he feared the hawks. he worried about the other side. the conservatives who said he wasn't fighting the war hard enough. it was a limited war. it couldn't be anything but a limited war. he didn't the chinese or the russians to enter into it. it would create the threat of a -- that's the bottom line. it was a delicate balance. he thought about that every single day that war was waged. >> and when he gets that memo from undersecretaryball saying it's the one boys unto that point. the wives been in agreement and there's one voice with the 85

page memo and he's just anguished slowly realizes that maybe the decenting voice is the correct one. >> there's one chapter that i devote to a memo that very few people know about. it's at the -- open to the public, it's at the library, but it's a memo from the cia. in which they talk about how what would happen if you pulled troops out of vietnam. what would be the effect on america and the world? and they essentially conclude it could be done. and the -- it's the paradox of lyndon johnson he didn't do anything with it. i don't know what his reaction to that memo was. it's lost to history. but i think the real fear he had that would have this, that it would this tremendous demoralizing effect over the american populace. we lose our confidence and lose ground. there's one other incident in the book that wasn't appreciated

at the time. which is in the waning days of the administration. where he's trying to get a peace deal done. we find out what was actively being undercut by one liaison who was in communication with the nixson campaign. talk about that incident because it's fascinating. and i haven't heard about it. >> the wife of the man who commanded the flying tigers in world war ii. and she essentially acted as a con due wit between the nextson campaign and the south vietnamese. she commit to the south vietnamese that they should wait, hold off on striking a peace deal with the johnson administration they would get a better deal with the nixson administration. johnson finds out about this in the wane, days of the 1968 campaign. when the vice president is in

the trying to win the presidency. and johnson doesn't do anything about it. he tells -- he just worries about what the revelation would do to america and the world at the very sensitive time. and so he goes to hubert human free and he tells humphrey about it and humphrey decide that it would be unpatriotic to reveal this in the last days of the campaign. it would be too upsetting. it would be too instructive to co. it's courageous on humphrey's part. you wonder what would have happened in the history. the revolution have been disclosed to the public. >> one revolution regarding humphrey who johnson wanted humphrey to pick as vice president. daniel inn way he wanted to do it because it was one other barrier. it was johnson who passes the

civil rights act of 1964, the voting rights act of 1965, he appoints the first african-american cabinet member and the first african-american supreme court member. he wants hubert humphrey to do something with the choice of the president and picking an asian-american to round out the ticket. and it is a phone conversation, by the way, and humphrey says, you know, old conservative i can't do. and human free is anything old but conservative. it's such a contradiction. >> let's talk about -- we're going to take questions from the audience in a bit. but i think it's -- i don't think there's any way to round out the realty of the man without talking about his wife. and lady bird johnson. the way she is always steadfast in support of him, the mercurial

personality, and that she's always looking out for him. one of the things i was struck by in the beginning day of the courtship. besides the include lady bird before she met john. son. i thought he was trying to set up initial relations. when you're doing an intense courtship. the book wouldn't occur to me as naziism and assault on civilly decision. with this inscription, to bird, in the hopes within these pages she may realize some little entertainment and find hear some of the principles which she believes and which she has been taught with respect. lbj. september 1st. 1934. this is a book about naziism in 19 34 well before they reared their ugly heads to the world. it shows the world view of this,

you know, couple from texas. they had a great view of the world. but, you know, you can't assess lbj of itself. the johnsons were a package deal. i think most people saw them as that way. one of the things she talks about as hard as it was to work for lyndon johnson, you had to lady bird johnson sort of as a buffer. one of the things she said, i always made sure i walked behind him and said thank you. [laughter] and i really do believe they came as a package deal. there was one aid in there, to the johnsons who says, you know, aids to presidents never have a meal with the president and first lady. it was hard to get out of a meal with lyndon and lazy bird johnson. they treated you as family when you were at the ranch and johnson spent a fifth after the

presidency at the ranch where he could relax and conduct business. everybody ate with the johnsons. everybody ate around a large table. they were truly a package deal. it's easier to understand lbj when you understand lady bird. and i thought about this. it took me about two hours to instruct the sentence that i think sums up the relationship. and that is, one wonders whether johnson allowed his demons to graze knowing that she would ward them off by quietly summoning. i think she had that effect on her. the calm, she allowed him to be the heat of the moment and think more deliberately about something. i think in the long-term. he was a mercurial guy. >> the mercurialness, so many highs and lows, in such a

comparatively short period of time. and we were talking earlier, about the bracketing of his presidency from cover of "time" magazine when he's named man of the year after the landslide. it's the stateman shot. he's in a business suit and there's a small sort of, you know, he grew up in the rural farm. and he has a visionary stear forward. three years later he's depicted as king leer. it's the great tragedy going on in public. that very much benefits in some ways the manic-depressive quality of his intensity and his achievement and aspiration. and the ways of the white house. as a johnson scholar, as someone who feels em think for him, do you get the sense that he was able to see beyond the horizon of that adult --

do you think it was a case why imry oversakes accomplishment. the public perception didn't keep pace with the accomplishment up until now. >> you talk about the two covers. i'll just talk a little more about them. first the 1965, you name the man of the year time. you see the picture he looks strong and solid and would be the envy of any politician, man of the year. >> yeah. >> and the one three years later. it's a cartoon by david lee convene of lbj as king leer. he's being kicked by bobby kennedy and ignored by dirkson. it's awful. he's turned into a cartoon. i believe johnson had the long view of history in mind. i really do. if you look at the accomplishments, i think you see that now. i don't think it was easy to see

in 1973 when he died four years and two days after he left the white house. when the long, cold shadow of vietnam was still very much in evidence. but in 2012, i think that shadow is beginning to recede. again, we're beginning to see how the accomplishments of the great society continue to resound. i'd be delighted that he saw in his just in the tenure poverty being reduced from 20% one out of every five americans to 12%. and he saw that in his presidency. there were some things that he took from that. he saw african-americans being -- as legal equals. those thicks, i think, sustained him in the darkest days of the i sei. >> i was struck on one final note. the parting gift of the other world leaders of a photograph

from earth from space. and that seemed to sum up his review and the great pride he took about the mission that would ultimately reach the moon. ..

>> in which he applied the johnson treatment in. it was a reluctant and he beat her into submission. they get married. does by sears and roebuck that lucy johnson still wears to this day. well after the white house he is on vacation and he

says why does it take you so long to betrayed in that arena? why did it take the three years? she said darlene, i was waiting to see if the marriage would last. [laughter] >> with that we will take questions. >> could you comment on bobby kennedy and lbj? >> no way to sugarcoat. they were bitter rivals.

the predecessor predecessor harry middleton talked-abtalked-ab out having a conversation about that relationship. he characterizes lbj he never met a man he did not like. i would revise. he did not meet a person he did not have the approbation of. he desperately wanted people's approval. we could spend a lifetime to be close but there was too much divide it. there were very different people. after jfk was assassinated it was difficult to see him

in the role his brother felt so gracefully. >> hedican liddy's are cool. job said it is hot. >> lighted john said except the vice presidential nomination when he had power in the senate? as of vice president was he relegated to the side? how can it be was inspirational and johnson and got things done. if kennedy had a longer-term if they could work as a team to accomplish the agenda? >> there's a great example

of their partnership illustrates the personnel ladies and their strength. lbj early advocate lend the space program one of the pence eisenhower is out this two o bj's. jfk appoints him to head up the space commission. he asks if it is possible to send a man to the move by the end of the decade. he says yes we probably can

he tries to help build a nasa to the strong institution it became johnson says yes and then kennedy did this bayberry memorable speech. he captured the imagination of all americans with that. he was the all-powerful majority leader but blended kennedy became president he would still carry water for jack kennedy. sam rayburn says after telling him he should not accept it tells him he should.

lbj says why do you say that today and yesterday you said no? >> if you don't accept it because he will become president. he does it for the party and for the country. >> did he play a significant role? i believe kennedy introduced civil-rights legislation. but there was negotiation with wall less in to the university and did johnson play a role? >> johnson uses jfk

martyrdom to get the civil rights act 1964 through. he says this is what our fallen president would have wanted. you owe it to him. it is exploited. i don't know if kennedy could do it. it would be difficult for the northeast tarrant democrat to get civil rights those democrats who have resistant for. >> was the quiet?

>> we have to move on after this. >> he was relegated said he could not do a lot. >> i have always enjoyed him calling of bill moyers he was not speaking loudly enough. bill responded i was not talking to you mr. president. [laughter] true story. wears has a deep spirituality and we wondered what kind of influence the to have a very close relationship.

like the surrogate son. tom johnson and. walter jenkins. they had a very, very close relationship. there was bitterness between them. i don't know how that and did but they were conscious of the jump sent administration. >> so talented and the iconic part, what was their relationship like? >> his loyalties lie with jack kennedy that is the

speech he gives 1965 with the police dogs and everything lbj goes before congress to talk about how people of color face the everyday fact of life. been poking of praise the dizzy and them of the civil-rights movement. we shall overcome.

seen that speech with 7k the only time he saw him cry and he says we shall overcome. very poignant moment. if dick could win did nothing else said he did more than enough. >> i heard there recess three legged stool stool, mcnamara, lbj and the four-star general transfer about it a big disgrace. would raise your thought and

was this there really people? president kennedy's secretary of state. >> the military management. >> and stan. i could not comment how the war voices run military budget the reasons we're there at articulated by rusk to reinforce the notion and weighed down keep the communist that day and is said guiding principle but i cannot comment how the war

was run militarily. >> the contradictory views that you add is the job said resisting civil-rights with kennedy's legacy and inspiration to do this for the former president. and would he put shenanigans are part of the legacy to push him in that direction? >> you are right. he was representing texans who are fundamentally opposed to civil rights at

that time. johnson was the advocate from early on so was his father. standing up against the kkk. this is a man who believes fundamentally all man are created equal. while the advocated the civil-rights act of 197 -- 67 he watered them down to get them passed. there were important only because of their symbol when you have the chance to do something to push it on behalf of little to do with

jack kennedy. using the bardem of jfk i am confident knowing in his heart he would want civil-rights regardless end what to do, what not to do, wondering whether in fact, i am thinking about the cuban missile crisis.

that is hard to perceive what with have been to. the president said there will not allow you to run over me. is their influence on johnson part of the council that spilled over but the other part especially today it has changed of little bit the joint chiefs and the field commanders have the one ups and chip against civilian control of the military. did you glean that at all? >> both jfk and lbj learned

a lot through cuban missile crisis and bay of p.i.g.s.. one is to constantly question the recommendation. he knows from the beginning the military will ask for more and more. to illustrate the paradox the matter what i do their booby killing. if i don't do anything there will be killing. that said he does continue to escalate those troops but

without question he did not strike an honorable peace and ho chi minh. talk about one on one and how he could implodes so effectively. if he could get him in the room. he offers pork-barrel promises. if you pull out of south vietnam i will create farms in north and south viet nam. how do turn that down? there is no congressmen that would resist that. >> just an answer to your comment have to remember

1963 promulgated and assassinated june 1963 it was an incomplete answer and there were problems with the civil-rights act of 1965. it is important to remember it created the civil-rights commission with the important reports. it had a bite to. it to was a civil-rights act

but to say he used kennedy's death to pass it. jfk proposed what became after fashioning a statement let us begin, let us continue. with martin luther king on us second full day looking at the aftermath i will

support all those policies. talk about how we do these. king says there is no better way to honor the late president than by pursuing the late president. >> what was said do think prior less than can take. >> is a bygone era.

go back to civility. you hear john said is ruthless. i don't think so at all. through the halls of congress with compromise and civility. knowing effectively he has to work on one thing. taking the long view. barbara bush said the compromise in washington has become a dirty word. and probably reach out to lawmakers.

rush limbaugh, and then to say come lead to