orr r to longer-term relationships. in closing let me emphasize that ovghcrnos committedo gh pog hegran alesaai -tstgirthi welan to return to iraq early next year to continue ou assessment with theoperations of the osc-i than in ris of d l hpp ar quonu ve ..

e'oner ore atsinth concdanit covering $5 billion of usaid expenditures, opened 105 investigions, 45 refralsor ecn,icts nvon40 niti onnd en suspension and debarments. so we've done a substantial amount of work over time. but as in the post-traition environmt cly a ins cg d beonoi bgg

million which is a substantial amount of money, but relative to previous years, it's on a downward trajectory cote creryi s dtmise fug thrthi it's become, for us, prohibitively expensive to be there. so what we're going to do is maintain an office of two autorsinig, by ir, ink d in the region behind jordan and west bank gaza. so we will continue to provide a robust oversightka in , wbe ntt asn he anr f w bo tepema ats major prram revis, one of those being a retrospective look back using some ofhe work that mr. bohn hasdonei

dontailhonl cawe ar le fhe agency going forward, and mara rudman discussed them. one is modern evaluation. historically, it'sn obtirid i thmpnttoov rfncat f trfnca sct at times, and the ability to get out and monitor and evaluate the programs, get legitimate, accurateerformance soht drtec.blet idcueha st g e'oio on that pretty substantially. the other cllenge that i see and, again,arkeou wa saili be nal pesom retront w g thfor a while to more

of the traditional development assistance. and like she said, technical assistan, democracy and governce, vilocie, th rtth. thneou ts just issued on i.t. sustainability, i.t. systems, it was a pretty prmst iemd as r as the otpltebu p sohihesoea hatt i is iraqi buy-in. and to the extent that they can based on guidance from congress, agenst-sharing kdof caify' gmo insthe'lb stbl otensoio bon io experience. so for us the one challenge i see as we move forwa, and i's ha bou ait tk

aqwfoen lo pcus. paan'vdccn ann, for whatever reason we have not had success in iraq. we're woing with our ig coterparts, we're working with en ieaqert. caasaies frd plts moc th local entities and more iraqis involved as amssador kennedy said, the fraud that's ging to take place -- if it take e sng e teeratimy iis is a pem ur ability to take that probable cause, find a willing partner in the iraqi gernment so we can do local prosecutions, that's wh we'e do,utr chngin frd anouy ,oo rwa aess you might have. >> thank you, mr. carroll. mr. bowen, you're recognized for

five minutes. >> thank y, mr. chairman, ranking membertiy, er omee t poitoapeu of titfrhe tao civilian-led mission in iraq. my statement examines this question in light of five issues; the police developnt rahecutun, coatn ,an sin o retronet ahe cr imi stivti t we've seen in this year. i'll briefly summarize eachf our, each of mypoin iny po dop pam le esog si fodnant to state management over the last eight months. interestingly, it transitioned from state management to dod management eight years nl ra ed e e dtm

enlylls ra d zehe sri ssreed formation of something called the multi-national security transition command in iraq which operated the police training an apldnd nd gnanoufey hor, not well planned or well agreed to or a sufficient reement wasn't secured from the iraqis as oit st to al av aervi ng hilyhll fw oatitoot progress made with regard to those recommendations, but the most significant events that have occurred since then he been the reduction the size og reitth taq thhe clehe sri le tcoueraq have limited the capacity to execute the initial ambitious range of the program.

cond point,ecurity siation we s ygaomo ghl5,ncin ju b le the year began violently in january. march saw the least vnt th wseat ou ra notwithstanding whatever those numbers are, the requirements for personnel to move about the country are the same as they reesseially, i 220 whhear leen iht fo ss surity. as ambassador kennedy pointed out, in excess of 6,000 contractors ar surity contctors, and mofe coatifaq sdi

oubin a half dollars in iraq security forces fund, the money that congress appropriated for training and equipping the iraqi army a the aqol s ait i the pesey kinus that money in the fms program raised some concerns about the obligation ratebut my meetings with the general who rune pam su o er juhaiv cre pts heros rrdg use of that money. a continuing issue that sigar has addresd overhe issues is prtst 51f andunm o llprinnd i n odtyhahedi vehaeras no consensus upon how to transfer these prompts. coctutwar peje

p tloo , klhe iraqis hav not bought into investing significant sums into what we provided in part because they're not sure what we provided. ag qnd tsat hearver dv rsabivhe ne ieate t retronanagement system found that it captures maybe 70% of what we provided. that's cerinly unacceptable. lastly, we've seenanpt si bsegrit s dn f oe, for whatever reason people have been more willing to come forward and provide us with leads and seconds, some ecal innswhapd m h ucre se e iex o0 stiooi on.

we just convicted our 71st person this week, and our sig toduoouin initiative contin stend frd i'owreiz mf for five nutes. mr. courts, ambassador kennedy and i got into a discussion about the ace or pnc ndgen fth ciesavnq. y tdoveh enatf o ininformation from your latest report as to what facilities we do and do not have land use aeements for? >> y. beefng iator 1 hackedge aprce through diplomatic notes, but there are still only 5 of the 14 fowhich we actually have explicit titlase em oas

thayl t, c ist,ical, wose are, or is there some force of law to those notes? >> well, the notes are definitely not the same thing as having an plicagen atet,hs aden cre isuius nfe, diz ur sites, and that was at one of the sites where we did not have a land use agreement. and so, obvious, we're in a much more vulnerable pition when there's not agreement. mrrr i ae thsteloueus o aq nationals in overseeing some of our investigations. does that -- i mean, what's your dohariouoo , ba, th e k ee t's arne? eemsikouow ers d le more concerned about how thr tax llars were spent than the

iraqi nationals who are the recipients of those tax dollars. ndf a uag nh iooik >>llerll i think it's like ms. rudman said, it's an additive sort of step. we wld de tg. r plne he whe coct with a local cpa firm primarily out of egypt and do a very comprensive, agreed-upon pieshilwi t thil wweouf eyoge e. tatat mara's talking about as well. i don't see it as a problem. in fact, i see it as an adjunct to, and it's notreplacement reenvetu gng

nngt ei d atott e le in atseple g goin out, just doing some monitoring and value wake -- evaluation, but it does not replace what the reonsilitire t >> r. k v m mrwehier oal seem most eager to answer can take this. i haven't en to iraq, my inatwht'ik sen vi.rtate a ny ur arsnin the capital, baghdad. and, you know, i'm concern about that we are struggling foinaf mr. antetohe an wsth ped eis fd delivered? how is that, how is that handled, and why is it a problem

in a metropolitan area? ieahere yw, nd oous eo heit i ont nto eabsl it complicates going down to the safeway. i mean, how is that handled, and why is i such a probl in -- ob heteepen a afth mar wre mbndhu t process for bringing food into the country continued as wel and that is via conys that co up choi osilyn, os,reeecu alesh rdthe convoys and other reasons that the shipments have been intermitt tent and has led to an -- intermittent and has led to an occasionalrtf aiodt ae ss

thprin h desire to move toward local purchases, but that's been slow. >> there's also concern ant the amount outmo cu aowh re din ulu aenst tyif esy oy e he ee on the compound? do we have security where they're living? do we escort them home? i mean, it looks like the ratio al 7 o eyeis do khonyfse i , tke tsi erery ri detail that travels with th everywhere they go? how much do they get out and how does that work? >> it's, as i sdin thisdin 2s hep erf t nod a xa i the security requirements, and those security requirements are dictated by the regional secuty officer at the embassy. gel ermpdde satasa

tlut sma ve odeas ous rre s o notice, three hardened vehics, and a couple shooters in each vecle and limi time on site. coss t stiv vienomec pee. he 'st quite dangerous. while there haven't been very many duck and covers as we say at the bassy this year,that's t te aheku ci. sr sla hch siioh those who operate in baghdad. >> and do our personnel live on the -- >> they live at the embassy in badad, ye >> okay.e neg zef pe th bo >>ay seme lay

expired. i guess we'll recognize the gentleman from massachusetts, and we'll give him six minutes as well. >>'re very kind, thank you, irnk or 14 times now, and a couple of things in the testimony raise some concerns for me. . cal,ns i rs t sri diulutms t that it's probably the worst situation could have where our inspectors can't get out to the sites to rheoj taman tye i th j a h,at to stid' vy mfblthhat. i know i' been out many times with mr. bowen and his ths rtal in site inir

re sfes projects. we've had widespread corruption at various levels in iraq, so there'sn, k causbe ,yd ut a w o money's going and whether these projects are being built to proper standards, number one, and whether they're in built at l werme y eiived tyoe? t aay that we could enhance the cooperation that we're getting from the iraqi foesoj uss gy withholdg fu ovghit dpe . r. , nr

government that's i don' want to say creating the problem, but that -- it's not the iraqi government. 's t rwea. wihaee turned down on three of our seven movement requests. but, again, that was a very difficult time. since then haeebl ssi aik behe t--esot so'tusopn which sometimes we'd like to do, particularly on the investigative side. the way it's going now everybody ows we're coming, and t bu f wven t noasd mm what's not their traditional kind of work and that is reconstruction, they were doing that qui a bit in the eay days, and nowit'slo lo hetndat ,

iaiocd veced loc a atand health and those sorts of things. most of that is located in and around baghdad, so it's not as if we have to go to baa, kirkuk or someing liat wfi tt i we t t nderkth eo twe cdor j kea eers extraordinarily expensive for us to be there, so we're going to change our sort of ot print a little bit, but i want to assure thdog.ivghre still going to o t y of deployment of our -- we've got 6,000 private contractors there. are these allyncorp? in, 'sakof.s.aal ataturfo hetllco 'ser the worldwide protective services contract the

statdepartment manages. >>y, . canopy ishe -- thguemesreir un nna >> okay. >> as i've observed. >> okay. >> and then there are a variety of other companies that are working there. ththrenihehe sicgu oy telthre in ivr tenhe suburbans are american contractors. >> okay. what's the security -- i know inirioth iceveralite e is . g mgi or at twee e gh f ouracilities that mr. course was talking about as -- courts was talking about well. 'she wstiio'v isra

>> myn aosll between basra and kirkuk, but kirkuk is subject to indirect fire quite regularly, and can that -- >> are we still getting rocket >>veynfenoad o thckco h been minimal at the embassy in baghdad. contrary wise in kirkuk, it's a week, ifot d eie wabot rt e? ve a stin er wl? >> in basra the sze down there is limited, and their capacity to move abouis tend ca oathe pce veenogof t >> n is that our decision, or was that the iraqi decision?

>> our decisn. but the iraqis, when i was in ae f a a mierd the ed e or 2iss is view from the program. the program, as you know, started out about 200, dropped down to 115, noown bo -8he s atong t 3, tntl in toldvo as it were. >> yeah. mr. courts, can i switch to you for a second? inrm ils?tfloi u dho lofit at h ti iur wh ee omth wt th most- what do you worry about at night in terms of your facilities there? togert ou aedn, the ste

erangit i the area of security to be considered fully mission capable. the three criteria were to have secu and protected facilities, thathey would have the ability to achiehecu me heeo athhe calilse dt eit thti tetem today. i can't go into the details of what the exact vuerabilities are because that'ssi hor,yned aicutu i e si iob metharil nn place today, some are not slated to be in place sometime in 2013. in addition to that, the state rtnt intendeto heth e raeiis mo vcl edoov cto 6 of them, but our understanding is the iraqi government will not allow their e, so they're essentially sitting unused right

w. oka atmpnt t yo tleouto -sfincns that you have. are there some areas that you anpa rnosperately n secity abth'tetpe h, o ow - ileu gth okay. we can talk later. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you, sir. we'll now recognize the other five minutes. >> thank y. thns'ran u ou [lte wh,f o ntn, b looking into the planned work being done on the embassy that was report inside the post this morning? exe e he posin we wtd, all

oh, i guess it was about more than three years ago with a auditofthuig he an ynocode rer el i wr $200 million fromhe contractor for what was really slipshod and worshan sliho th-n deyov i no kle would probably take court action. ane, i al cor w rsth is f e y ohi nageg ier le nr,ut wal believe the department should be trying to get it back. we on a continuingisu

th $ month was mentioned in the article. i don't know if that's an absolutely accurate figure, but what i do know is the dertment fiof, h gor thon dn'ha -eemedo have that money yet. it's asking the congress for the money. but where we come in is we will, we wt tonow what is the moy.nt going to get for that ehethav ovvi $ ioi i mrf th what -- or is it a matter of something nice to have? and we'll be looking at that, but we can't lookoo far uil and n ss ons deo gthat y po t. el de cre thquonfoheve them the money, frank. i mean, a $700 million facility

before we even started, $700 iolidrk w tugho ar uen wannd noeyntt'e $60-$80 million r a central utility power plant, underground sy,tat semanlity,ire no $iln j didn't address any of those issues in the come bound of -- compound of th size? >> i th the ers, ou tay $ ioenid re.t t w i dhees nre throwing in good money after bad, or is this something that is goingo save us money? >> has anybodyloedt thmbf pe oy

anwtmay be different than in other embassiesf similarrize and purse? >> tha is -- similar size and purpose? dond oagteeally goin be lillmaofs. re wer the infrastrucre that is already in place and the proposed new construconlign with the diatree.rmndloer -- er w inan'let . mio, that should be conditioned on -- i also look a part of what they're proposing is a classified embassyne coer w m $35 absoth tings, classified stuff, are you going ab able to see what you need to

see, or should this committee and others in cons ke sure 'slu bmeth wetal.h w,an ianust- having sat through the hearings on the original embassy construction failures and whatever, it's dothing we definitely he to d soes00il, inat ne a building out there. how they could have left that out is sort of surprising on that. i'm also interested we take a look at how many people they anha atacy, t psee h at ns tsi e inlout il? meg se? do we need those people for that particular mission? one mention in this article was it going consolidate other things? onoiou mlidt curoanu' al t qio hfu

yon give us some direction on. >> i'd love to have you lead the team. [laughter] i think you're asking the very questions we will be asking. >> wel comrtin tow u'oio ang t wokthou thwek tagng erpeop treng to put in an 'em embsy, i understand the security issue, but if a cntry doesn'tnt rplto bi ad, av tokow w t prcered setyplunro getting paid what they're gettg paid to just tell us they can't move the security device and stay put, u know, isind of crazy so thank yorr atyick t y. gema xp, lioth otns ashi t testimony today has made clear, this is a ongoing issue, so i suspect we'll be seeing many, not all

of yn tfs mmai d n,ha fur thmme dsou. [inaudible conversations] >> since the u.s. senate's in recess for the july fourth holiday, we' airingooktv weer canech nh thk ren'iil club." and then at 9 eastern eleanor clift and matthew spieler ouprenctthe nuts and bolts of st a id"l "ec at9: st farris' book

profiling men who ran for president and lost but had a major impt. book in pme time each nighisk-s tit st > tht24ho tve c-span2 tomorrow, the fourth of july. starng at 8 a. eastern, conservativeomment tater jonah cls,ch pse be. .mbcac mw es.s has embraced perpetual war fighting. at 1 p.m. eastern former secretary of state madeleine at0,ucancuhe mr, unctesss learned as a single mom." and at 6 p.m. eastern, henry crumpton details life inside the cia'slatier w

acts tvt' okomw dan an2. this weekend head to the state capital named in honor of thomas jeff szob with booktv -- jefferson with in jeerso ,soican historyv tu nas, te l woo o an filan carnahan on family life inside the governor's mansion. also a butcher's bill, a business ctract, a provisions list, fromie mpoa tniitmiri eclllonheto ndeit ate su a p.stnnú american history tv -- >> at one time in 1967, thisas called the bloodiest 47 acres >>orwatayo ugheisc mur eitar sokkhr hry hels tis e todgoor mansion.

once a month c-span's local content vehicles explore the history and literary life of cities across americ is weekend from jefferson , rdt ant 5ean sp > heay means subcommittee last week held a hearing on the tax code, welfare programs and employment. the subcommittee first heard from bincry o penslo remaenmowh el aith coeden 1970s. kentky congressman geoff davis wee ayoi r, hearing. wee benefits can discourage work. before we begin with our regular session today, with opening statements, i'd like to recognize a sal t s asto.c

t habainc sear s wan ns fheted kingdom. we're truly appreciative that he's been able to adjust his schedule to jo us today for a few minutes. the united kingdom isutl toitfa ane raotlihe al pes ato a issue tha cared about for ma year we've been watching closely many of the developments in great britain as these reforms have uta at peto viis erd io edshwi foioouese foin u. h be useful as we consider the effectiveness of our own program. mr. secretary, we d a little digging through our archives, exs hengioith th he of th todanrmp o apinfohes s itonde matters, so this is, actually, a historic occasion.

we're honored to have you join us today and, please, proceed with your statement. mir tyory heay iaasto 'so erayi i is surroundings, i'm usedto doing my answering across the dispatch box in the house of commons being screamed and shoud atymofer inosar rh, aipg tno pperecribu i ca st say that what we're trying to do in the u.k. is much the same as anywhere else, trying to figure out what's been ing on with aysth h outocty, a inndthctyap em ifoof wepeg on welfare, interestingly, rise by 39 or 40% under the last government at a time prior tohe recsionso ngerf ghhe onwarout

s wrero w stora li d ser a growingevel of people who just didn't work, you know? a very lge number who ou tvienofrk at m a wi who recognize, it's not enough just to take people off benefits. anybody can do that. the question you haveis where do those costs then go? because ey disar evf day p ofcrvenasn and that under class becomes expensive in other ways; in policing. we saw our pocing bill rise b over 5% during thrs yoea -iswh o yioea ncxiamtth s rc. they are the biggest drawer on health care, and they're also the biggest, most likely group

to be almost recording every kind of sicknesyo can ibma. eacailre gh d ol,ca i epsrd per uclwhmss vexat o anticipation of proceeding. so they're knock on, therefore, h t all nostbo rinhe istit'bco, ci tthstat come as a result of havin a group like this. so what we've chosen todo is look at, first of all, one,he entrapment princie. th?pe, oe ti atbee ete e iripl with so many different benefits, all being withdrawn from people as they go into work at different rates, some 100 percent, some ce me gs,e n orcaat elyuc

they would have in their pocket after the withdrawals. and in some cases they're losing up to95, 9cenve pod. geouur oiven o veouhe gor a hour. not much incentive. and they assume, hugely, that they're worse off. it's not wort the effort, and so they don't make the effort. thtets d't ceizopo he tth itu d ot waanret people in work which is what they intend, but mostly to people out of work, particulay large ho, n tw leving in larger liarla th hif m irs busou cemonehe l lygooork. so we created a thing called universal credit which starts next year. that merges all thback to work

benefits into one benefit, and esmy onin coffinurse%. at lthan be adjusted in government. it's about investing money, it's as simple as that, rather li taxation. so tt simplifies your itril rds raar d bthgl thhed whis t rtication tax rate, that is the moment you enter work. to my mind, that's the critical bit. for people who have been out of work generationally, you need to t roth sh er o wo- dlle to buepth cfgey low indeed sogoing across is very easy, so that decision economally makes sense. it's basically aut that silifitionndkior yss e w n bit 'ret o irk wahaon bit

co, avkro h is derisking government but actually making sure that it does what we need it to do. so we hand to e private an voluntarysect thoe i d cwhhe ds the ebin . a t'ay b results system, and there we actually pay them sick months after somebody's -- six months after somebody's come off the benefit register, so th dce r yon s eydto otmin epm w neo tin w usly tdoy what i call the work habit. once they've got it, they'll then satisfy that, thereafter they'll make sure they understand work. so six mons,ineth thseosisd.n fur thaeme ic means they've got to work with seem even after they've got them into work. and the lack of risk is they only get paidft tyo

ho m wn findhere ch m wcayhe 's astht cso i area. the third area is looking at sickness benefits and disability. we had a maas i have problem, a huge number of people were peally ens, bet edinci ne erf se yer , welleor rk and we had some people on these not seen by anybody for up to te years. and, of course, if you're on a befit ke that, you're no untafhaobr u cineig bigger problem ten years later. so the assessment is arou wedothocghw,100 cee thdeerhi of e ert are going straight back to work.

they'll go to the work program. a bit more than that ar going to the middle benefit of th benet h ou lege torbuue anryblbu ctn 'l aie wo d thgrgh oue sme, about a third, is a group that actually you're not having any expectations of work because you are gne oic ourweep ma shetiea bak wasbe we never had a constant check on them. and the other one is a disability benefit which is about your mobility and you , rmat ust jual rw,co, apsan wedhee really. so we're now tightening that back up to make sure the benefit goes to those whal need th m. n ivat out pe tkee het

bao ,d tt sa abl wwhh , r t ry want. they don't want to be trapped out of work. those are the main things that we're doing. ie vy ntui eld-addressing processes, and quite a bit of it is unknown. i mean, for me it's ironic having you here. i went to the brisharte ol t 3 y a anaoo oann instsp was having to jump out of an old barrage balloon to find out if a rachuteorke fijuo an l fh oeses. unoy r ith unsled,er people are looking for work, there's increasing family

breakdown th leads to some of the social problems and nccoth you de prs eeffectively serve people. having grown up in a single-participant home a was on a form of assistance as a child as well not meeting my instn h bre wao bo work and they find disincentives. i was wondering if you could elaborate for us on howfo e t assea o wofarewnde froven pecti in terms of handling this. and i also understand that wage data's playing a key role in ese reforms an was wondering hoeag ath d omnt brfl o g tsind atnophi n

st ud] 'sno relave income that's the key, it's what leads you to the position of being unable to earn money for yourselfas a househd. anthosare e gsik edioeb d a soseaseeend to kf ass beuse ur lifestyle usually has a bearing on what's likely to happen to you. and here's the point about family breakdown. we, therefe, need to do a l reade unnamifech tsmaf t as, areriosot he t , ut icly yng dysfunctional mums in the family so the kids

are right early on, and second to look atmi en ea w in ilmi behe eawn ther tn picking up the pieces afterwards. i mean, it's estimated over 20-plus billion pounds a year we spend onhefter effects of kdwhitwn i pubiofmoin , uanstiz edhooreowoe e dr w bit hat'ugehift to where you put your money to focus on solving breakdown rather tn dealing with the ter effects of it. we h histig nabout how th owt tate sotreplyaying is that as people go in from benefit into work, that the levels that they achieven work fo eachhohoanha tho pssou

moabig titis en ty're on benefits. so the universe credit is interesting because by and large it shifts some of the money down to the bottom end. that i say theea h. wosggssggin thonissu important, you know, marginal deduction rates. so the participation tax rate, that bit goin in, you need gehat cliffdge ro treayup anatrter nr. thilug bnefi for example, low-income parents who want to go to work, their childrenealize work isaf a pofr re hoolorodomt ia -pt e , ho em so early on it's really portant because they may match that with some of their caring. but that needs to pay and to

keep em i work, tt' pot. ts ly t omof t w t gaihe thalow sen.n ea u ha w c diegar so as they where work, each category of person will have an amount of their income disrarded bore the taper. diedsolle ggisrdhae r. on wleie g h a v sl disregard for the taper, and a lone parent will have a disregar slightly bigger than that, and then the tapr. the tape is the same r yb bisar ua wevur ic l oeeor tacly m ve mois theefor concentrated on the investment. and this will allow us later on to look at work conditionali. mrcry.ch d tcoe fd huoucote >>nk f y insightful

testimony. as i understand it, this universal crit is a new approach that you're just beginning toloor iem tisruha rr e tit,re arat ies inctne year. we are building a new software system and everything else, and we're doing some early advance rug utlymestarti around about s eeatles >>thalhoe lvy t glitcheto have uniformity across the country? so you wouldn't have a different policy in wales from greater london or inreato f rt b an oterf c bu ivatn it cld b a very lolized delivery. it's not -- right now we'll be doing as it a national delivery we o fcuns bedded in, and then

etthou liz weorxation, so alongside this is a big change to create what's called a realtime information system on our tax bas so n whape bse om gond e pnttex thiessh they earn so much money because that's their prediction. we know in pa-time work that hours changed so it's not the me yeecs dialre you gebao tauito ndjoux ppaststs he mome. the problem is you're coming from a group that doesn't like authority very much and gets confused. you forget to do thiome midera do muonveer.oo tndtharh t nd s we've overpaid.

you're dealing with a group that spends every penny that you give them immediately. what the realtime information system wl do with unersa reilanvemoh iurou cge w t n yes cathussor at trmmediate report x then it just adjusts automatically. so now we say, hold on, his hours were dow lastont 'ljuhepats f >> trtith thnialdi lto >> we are investing money to get it in, but once it's in you will more than save that money back because of two key features. the first is t p w ki geel f, h >> mmoredt stovhert term? >> or the three, four-year period we're averaging about go billion a year of investme -- o biion ea vent aoubeinur thwemo fs

thh eanaume alone that exist in the present system. >> one of the obstacles that we found in this cup to people -- in this cotrypeov eerone ot mg a j ttt allbuss k cctoltnsce is it your feeling that access to health insurance in the u. is helpful to pot >>l,stofou unnt dre f yaver . es i e tatl hh ican tef everybody gets access free at the point of delivery,whatever. >> so you don't have anybarrier to employment from people being lock int asue py >>opo hivoos i ra b d t it plays anything like the part it would play here. i'm not, by the way, entering

the argunt about whether you should have anything similar he. elha hanat en aedeis ary im, d ce atbk. d,co wwee considering it, one of your european parliamenttarians was on fox news telling us at a horrible system the was oer e. miererndfeo urlters, t onstio iil a tiol stio t.k >> yes though it's being reformed at the moment. we've just put some rorms through to make it much more responsive to what people fod.at s nd and to make sure th ollespd ls y eaca- elre -anr h ite cpt o rm not with are e peel so that -- peal so that we have access to insurance for our workers here, and thank you fo tesmony chanersia,

bcomttee. >> thank you, chairman davis. welcome, it's great to see you here today, and we appreciate the tremendous work you all are sy ie uo ref cex pa and that those receiving the benefits wllunderstand that moving,rossing that thresholto get to work is where they need to go. and, of ursehodo k i oonli dog woro thitale program. it's a system ofelivering employment services to these individuals. >> yep. >> and as you've restrtured ene, stu ta bit' a foheef an my understanding is you have ways to leverage nonprofi

ornioner pte gatinoly foorbu sin prm?at t >> we scri the rk program which, i think, is unusual for two reasons. the first is that it's a payment by results system. tist nyhe thivashe vta prm. allnhe wn'yheil ey'vgotsomedy iork a kept them there for a minimum of six months, and then after that they get further payments th re i a ct ainor acxte tanim i n obllem ty ouo,s t jo figure thatut and this is where e voluntary sector comes in. the prime contractors, the ar thifntbcaceh mevae vnt

e'loun ct and they tend to be the organizers. will deal with systemic problems that an individual s. for example, somebody who -- and prerreey hno bykng ag 1r 1out thnoinut th straightnto work because they will fall out at some point because they're incapable of doing half of thebs w h tcklo t qlyome voarecat d to ttont w can actually hold a job down, then they take them through to work. so they have to invest a bit befo they start to get them paid, and that's how theroce rk thl ouui. sd,e reedaigher level, and that's how it works. so the risk is ten by the private company who's the prime. they don't flow the risk down to

e ntct tnoel i aks r i tsof tta wa. twabideur f pic e. ac t it's the biggest anywhere in thworld that i can be aware of where we're doing a payment by results program. it's now national, ae're not it teaprm, ae vegeor anesiehesufas en sly we will get rid of them, and somebody else ll come in. so we keep the risk away from the taxpayer very mch on ov tit i r ies j et menet'ldmn . ie that's been miss by endless government agencyie because if they're not noaynorowonheyil ef wpe eyrnt. 'syenhec the lyto back

to work again because they got scarred. so when you get them once, you've got to make it tell once. .. omaur buswa nu o mitigating issues to the overall package, including webl kp hi heah

insurance. that had a profound impact on that flexibiity that mr. doggett neve i'm not oing tops stols hebu ththus ang se 0esyh elonl ctually suggested a much more radical transformation of the health care system in te uk and he was tu ab dl udnatbe 's st rtywh pp. ihn rgt teo k minister probably discovered that the health care system in the uk was pretty popular, is that a fair statement? es yohr.oof k'stefe fwh erqetheelrv because of its basic principle, which is that no

matter what your means, you are, ll always be able to get treatment at te point you edho yeq or quenrmn thgaeds psyche but it's a very emotional point to lots of people so thy are very waryf you pla with that because they don't want to see that shiftedo they wou haveo t ngfo u we a olti mi in nt the sotimes have to cut ur clo going to what we can do in parliamentary terms. but reforms by and large will deoninouie hference to rewthohoe ansowiowuch that treatment costs and bearing down and understand have that mone is spent. >> good point. let me flip that argumenttoo telen t 96 tnin

male who were receiving public benefits, a state ith health care, the medicaid system. the probl was tt eoe ncblvinot o, t ok eran nth alarne cto rein public benefit in keeping the health care befits. so those mitigating circumstances that i referenced rlr abt level of yo tncst iyuthcr, rem fbii rm eimng osy does. the only comment i made on that is, we all as politicians make this argumt that, i don't knw i'mgo n dntartee,i soliitr tis hee wn've at ba treatment in the two houses living next door to each othr. but we do have issues arund

welfare and that reason and welfare is a bi issue rit now thek,reeooi oknlicesa e e edowit arrnpr mwh ey adyerngt they are not working. because they have a larger family or a larger house. so tt resentment does exist. pet. e e wi t leak epesulthwh so is where it is rather than health care. >> mark mcguinness was an old friend of mine, anthe queen, should cha t pll icee erial e leeer en nt tn thuge changes. but you noted na earlier conversation that we have there are still very stubbn elements, smaller in numbeyear aft year, who sll a ctst u no shll taloa

belfast, the link between poverty and high rates of high unemployment and violence, wathe be, i s h stt s uit s th rdmed n ho ighotoat o destiny as their find a common moment. >> news. my comment would be this really prefers welcome i was a short ys hstsrd ny yrs. i fianmo o meth oce i lost iends who have been killed in subsequent service in northern ireland. no one is happy tonight to see the possibility of peace in northernireland. 's eauungreun kom f o . yo rbu-tw vpecr tan here w you overlay deep deprivation. also alongside peculiar

reliouivnsd t sofaeilin lc y ivstofse dos y g b but we are making strides towards that, but yes. >> thank you. >> i thank the gentleman yor nge oyu syhe tom ar meu se t itin. cnunitol r learn from what you're doing and continue the dialogue. thank you again. >> thank y, mr. chairman, for the pportuit >> as the secretary departs i would like to thank all of my colleagues for their unanimous consent in altering ou nomalenwt titedsoamm i'kecedwini

em, nowi begin. today's joint hearing is on disincentive to work building current welfare and taxcut og esge e m c h, xida ngesn t nte kdo r uns wrli with the same issues. secretary duncan smith's presentation is was a test of ase coerinanontoday wil help us tweko rentma ta a hisfow eeproas rtiel o en ind lass. today will consider whether the multitude of current welfare programs and tax cut programs great effective lders of ruyurg cnita engrils li clrdhies describes in in, dead zone is barely better off financiallthan a family not working atl.

heees ie rakw lle eonopv trap. he says the bottom line is if you're poor the governnt inadvertently is ensuring that your little incentive to try to wht ly b d toiommiio is gnmbets l cofmls, eagskn befthovt id strger the disincentive to work harder and earn more. ironically many of the programs in questionae dgnd prinve we ei obedthrfu txcdtht ro rlyinen years, the collective weight of these programs c have an unintended side efft of discouraging hard work and higher earnings. thiss tb bt bot altwr emseathnc bss r mra throem and extend its

reach well into middle class, affecting families earning up to $90,000 or amily of four. cogt the national center for policy analys, the exchange subsidies under obamnicare will yid inal al a 5usy ever a bad rge o aomesut o nus. ser woofen wan thrv cisan adviser president obama describes the story of one woman who went from earning $25,000 a shoe heh ce d h $3th o plpodelt sue. ensoate with her section eight voucher went up by 30% because of the income gain, which is the rule. she lostth $28 a moh id ccaou s d afsc cfo

il shy paolx of dialom finally, the new jobs in boston she lived in suburbshe nation's $300 a month of additional monthgas an ak $20.gok r ima 10itg tax rate on her. we look for to all of our witnesses testimony today, including possible solutions to americans have more, oes ce trk nd uprt than ell vest oay ar ateeor ngcns,ing to find what to build a bridge that was smooth this transition to work without creating a cliff, partularly for single parent families that are tryng tom a go oit a ove thnkme oe no reenve dge d care to make an opening statement?

>> yes, mr. chairman. thank you very much for your coursy. certnly if we c rfecur toea k,esolddo dwenret e xsinreres tax credits that are not being properly used in accordance wit law we should do that, and take buus sesllatteps. mfth e cu hain nd tfoof e alrks,l tayda committee in this areis misdirected. let's look at the facts. the richest one-fifth of erics arrepoedon oflt t un este w bout three or 4% of wealth of this country. the congressional budget office reports that over the lt hree decades,ft-taxomr whthiofno

inom 2002-2007 float to the top 1% of households. the focus of this hearing is n on the 1500mlireho re r.nom t s nne opos who not only paid zero, suh as in some years, gener electric, boeing,wllsfro,oe sectyrceivy gomeitnto haea er rvnuren loi to our government. it's not on ose at the top. it is all focused on whether those who have an owership te i%esf onea werhye inom aonfs hearses to follow closely the report lash of the house republican study committee

concerning the disientives of our cuents isthamrondme t fotsatcde s lfanem cfo reductions, condemned welfa as pell grants, title i grants to disadvantaged scools, hedstart,s d sc bfa ra e s scctatofse rt initiatives that help those who are struggling to become part of the middle-class, and to share in the american itt onuymavn, chen hives in austin or san marcus or san antonio leaves the welfare program for a full-time minimum-wage job, the earnedncome tax credit and the hederki aie.et ep

won significant way nd is an incentive to advance. at the same period of time through eecentees rechteatpni icepnthe hardest hit by the ecession, a 66% drop in wealth from 20 2005-29. a nift nthas beee teluaer udu h ht tale. these are serious problems that need to be addressed to encourage and help people move into the middle class,o rees esi rd us t rgms eems tosreal problems, rather than on the small issue that is raised by todas hearing, and i yield

ba norntecan aeaubiton ctenmas,mbe ha you, chairman davis. thank you for your leadership on this issue. it's a real pleasure to have an opportunity to have a joint hearing with our subcommitteda ovg euesf n isin osnti it's something that all of us believe in. as is making governnt,aki reert nta h waf eis thia er li d ofullthrri i nfianr the need of a safety net. when i was in highschool, my father, who immigrated to america with mt it hilsthij2 arosis pono milotourltre

that time i was thrown into the free andeduced lunch program in high shool. good news sm adfo b. bea ly ain today, dangerous with the tax code, is it appears that people, by the tax code is saying to don r ukwoa lothhell b nad hetuhe ckund are fortunate to find an opportunity of work. comprehensive tax reform is a chan tsolve this prbltaf hulsu atw a maal aghpl horepy well. there's no reason that my father should have to see a tax accountant for his taxrturns

cnte i credit, in many tim and in many places have to use a paid tax preparer, costing them money from their ownpcet lo o, . mao scng w cixhs sutepweerca vehe american dream. i yield back. >> thank you very much. the chair now recognizes . neal, ranking memof bstomtt >>nk, chan hog hngri wat olra the earned income tax credit is the best antipoverty program, the best profamily, the best job reation measure come out f reo ed me xisabsaf. pren od wh moicng,and expanded by every president

since ford, both democrat and republican. here's an opportunity where we cosst change the rhetoric in thmrn epe doa s. oute pal taxes. so and easy way to soften some of the harsh rhtoric here by that simple cknowledgment. thrnnctaedsn w bly emccul ea w n ori arec, ngac smore fair to low and moderate income families, and most importantly reducing poverty. cr laot6io ers ofvrty mo.3lici credit, the number of children living in poverty would have been one quarter hi. is a perfect? of course it's not. there's no proision i x det er tn pn

i et i nwhet comments that i've heard from some who would suggest or imply that we should increase taxes on low and moderate income families thm-my er ntec ut wsotater45fhe in t all and went to question whether that is to. again, an opportunity to reshape language. majoty ldentnd soreliorreg s e odacomrs. e. saime f lowering taxes that's hardly fair. republicans tell us that we can't increase taxes on the wealthy because of the negative. iralhenk enagemowtwll h omlwy since those days when president reagan

proudly proclaimed that the signing of the tactical act of 86 quote, millions of the fr h axlathe thalwiayir bustasi ode et me highlight that i'm open to working on this legislation. i would hope that one year enhancements that we're attempting to o inet thayo d er d beot coten amoth ard t issues. >> i thank the gentleman. will n turn to our member pal in hprtee e e if. wo n eilae an polesiidh d homelessness and domestic abuses but i'd like to remind representative more to limit her oral statement to five minutes.f wrn wbee oe icor t yo ,cntny

s and chairman keep very, and ranking members nel and doctor. it's certainly a premise tbe thre as an expert wine n id xpasy ihfld g 1 she is now 42 years old and talks back very regularly. but let mesaytaimre t yss e f wreef atrc dca because i gave birth to my daughter on medicaid. the subject o this, a i can tell you,ti at, arfoouiv prest rf kiory egtot oputo poverty, to get people a hand up instead of a hand out, i could guaranteeyu

tmilln le wrcic to e tad ndfa buf seat is more rhetoric than it is reality. i was ablet i o e imofor inshue t noe uc mtc bit of assessment before i walked over here today. and i must sy that as a britain are me must appreciate the fact binstonyi ob teaocmotyaonth ost, which means that you can predict people's social mobility moreby what their fathers station, eaoretimewasthere duke or n u ninh arulveoe.

and i ay that with all due respect, mr. chairman, and i mean it, with all due respect, holfan a etanefhs ng scgewr,ss misnomer. and just salacious non sequitur. because it assumes, i ih hecitum l t la f harct, an d'tk o ectural, hint hint, of these welfare programs to i just want to quote since i see m time is exring ast my frha dnssqoe thth appropriate, given our first panel. a quote on dickens.

thnt dle hperd at xloatn,tyor compassion, is the rule of induction society. so that when you look at the tax theoepre,tat hinotoerk pay, i would submit, and i look forward to the question and answer greed, i would submit that people towork jutfoirlfee rdit neetoen ba ir, t beler ris aitmas. in my case, and i'm happy to share details, my dughter had her first asthma attck at age fourayd. i ult rdha jb w'vpad e tede hda eabin

big my supervisor not to give me a 50 cents an hour raise, lest i i ored 0mesayrm drane on rv chorp. would say that if we really want to encourae work, things like the earned income tax credit, thin like prodi fospltsmetoih , noju awetahe si tt will take the ynesian approa and just say well, the thing to do is to snatch foodssac usbtsat lillli tpo in workforce, they will be forced to work beause, in fact, they will not have any ther oice wihallhato daysv a.car.

ti >> thank you very much for your expe testimony, ms. moore. do you think hat amerans th art e inr charob rinob availability than they are on calculating their potential marginal tax rate is the wo a certain number of hour? i tey htte e. mrgg, wre pi a not stupid they have commonsense even though they may not have the ability to calculate implicit tax margin rates. lihaid aetis or-y ods i had to have health care.

i think i would've been very successful as a waitress, you i nng m,ut lovpeop. d babo fd, -dlden o work in a restaurant that didn't provide health care and rest at that time losing medicaid. meidd fooe dtei42 o n l as. i dnfftoe itnefit. if the government wants to help people they should, i would want to work if, in fact, didn't risk losing ai. i ype no iacuat ay pde told me that earning $17,000 a year with thr kids, i was still por, th i hf i t in aa

stlpr, that i -- and so, when the, so that when january i d , cu akthe 50 cents an hour raise. so i want to stay but to the fact that the our implicit marginal ta rates that people bue oco ho opavenin em s ldt e fi way, it's fallacious. what it means is that the cost of daycare in212tr, saolmn,50 mo ndon af c, s r that it, work does not pay.

women cannot affod to work witho governmental assistance. hankou >> t ilde o thrpof hng eom ct, ft ss these questions. you said yourself you beg not to get a raise. >> yes, sir. and i want -- >> reclaiming my time. .. >> that was t your time, i think that was somne else's time, d sooula meel t >> ihas im the cok.nnd

>> okay. >> thank you. you hit se very important points; b training -- >> yep. >> -- health care -- y - spti ep -yc y heer amewe reng a all-encompassing, and ybe you could speak to it because you invited the question when you said you want to be as candid apossible. sut? about the rolf child >> tyd ngofochpo ybu d a practical suggestion in that? >> well, thank you for asking that and, as a matter of fact, cotes me ahe on . 'sndo t 100% pass-through of child support to custodial parents. i'm a huge fan of chil support,

icarly since a of t r sofups, uar nt tanf is not a very reliable source of income, it is no longer a mandatory eenditure. so ihihiup ier pot. wao ono shi taagen atit these marginal tax rates. i come to a different conclusion about it, um, you know, instead saying let's takeaway the pes outxp i ca tnoannf, for eample, if you want a woman who's on welfare to go to work, to get decent daycare, you know, and mean very modestycare rnin, dos abnerkyor inc.

w amaa a thousand doars a month and still pay the rent, buy food? she can' and so if she hits t c s elil f dar $7.52 an hour, your premise ornoe danmi ofy pn islag i acan tef s woulquit work. and i am saying that she is someone likee who verymuch wants to continue work but eds, hst n m or o t ato ino w so ts alicn d wre tur emont. >> mr. larson's recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr.hairman. d thk yr.beas

i ec tpi h iei cuc peally appreciated the value added that my colleague from wisconsin brings. and you underscore a point, i wasn going topeut okth magtuofis tun esey do a'mea, initgreal of knowledge just in my own staff here at the capitol. when we talk aut dre inzir, li fa oe hrt pam e oner nn rasaid it best: daycare is nothing short of a cosmic crap shoot f peoe wh aeg veir cre thoutaho emeswh of course,

they'd all prefer bufor the fact that they have to be out andemployed. chaianas said when we get to these cliffs, what is it tt the cliff that we have to decide? thwe dilpued to sayhy t hothreea b utthre ,hee thndof affordabl daycare that's safe, that's fundamentally sound and would be helpfu take a lar, pelyyo ang ctmo a'r wocere, re uegofena cr, a look around at what kind of daycare there is for you and then consider where you may have the means,the situation of so maelamanat i t usc s

at hoy, >>l,nk en, esti onbecause it is. i can tell you what the alternatives are to having a thousand dollars a moh to pay for decent dayca. you kw, can h avi taar y kowwi onal, u ve next door neighbor take care of your kids, and maybe this ll be a moleer will not besidter the it csh a id uanoidor m arfo dis ycthin told me th i was going to hit the cliff, and i sent m kids down to the corner to a babysitter who sat my kids in front of vi wh a s. ifyo s h abeth uc s y dte s ,red take her brothers down there again.

you know, or yo can just hang a yo-yolndyeldrdsck ho d on tor sach h that y're lucky enough that nothing will happen to them while you're gone. those are the options that owntfplo rto e on 'sh hen nhau' in ercung ic trto figure out ifou have to work. and it's not as if you don't work youave poor chacter, thut becau you nnig abo retuhbe yck >> i thank the gentleman. and as one of those kids with a key around his neck from when he de ahis a i old, i care very w ereny

mp pdidial o aauinse at. cralsa naon - like great britain is doing -- that we address all of the process issues to integrate agencies feeld lio k dess. tht, t anulsk texel ce. >>t k m chairman, thank all of you for listening to my testimony. [inaudible conversations]

acunun jogsosel l, distinguished gentlemen who are going to share their thoughts on the issues of reforms and dressing the issues drifes p.in. finance,r. eugene steuerle, po ctnreonsteinr. lidtoe mutes, however, without objection, all of your written testimony will be made part of the permanent record. youropgatt.se,roceed with w gor. prtey t iothhce

pe hadseths of health insurance upon passing over certain thresholds, and the article i wrote on the dead zone li eon tt ts eeun all soal inefficient to have these cliffs over which people would fall. and there is an opportuny with althef treis hro aief orvinon safety net. one of these supports, the eitc, has a positive inctiveor rk taou t rd. ofinsior fce participation was noticeable upon its enactment and upon its expansions.

it does testifto poce t ra augscd, alonds doosery knows these anecdotes of people who were making the calculations about whether working more was rtle th pebe sim inther on. own mother, she would complain about not having health insurance and working. she said pso he wthed i innc idh hh primarily by payroll taxes and sales taxes, and it's not -- it doesn't -- it has a much bger reos t s oustas eral dien et,er

keeping people in a certain status in society. instead of moving from escu vio -alionei rkstf bgga allmaer t wng diligence and with judgment and with the degree of creativity in their dienat aey arerapped i rtatfuhhe o i sty hoa a seamless transition from the place where we have the economic safety net inirifein tsof we, stf tis areer self-actualizing, associating with other people on the basis of a free association. now, i waserd

he clas t rassomewhat problematic because of the cliffs that a involved. the eitc phases in and can phases out. that's pretty ea to calculate, emplit r whyovecl w lolily eel inncndn chen are stl coveredor a whe, and then they lose eligibility? i wrehe iul some art to ma dahecuonadin prtaon, but i, like everybody else, am waiting for the supreme court to speak on the issue of health care reform. d th, ao, we t le t polxng ofernce upndheilreg editoingown. so i thought let me just have

the same calculations i had several years ago. the point is prtyar taan pnethou ivatth ituch incente for a lot of our fellow americans to work, the ma 5 s fe,t-h ef mas00th ul h bg, robust, positive, tangible effect for everybody in our system. um, this speaks to tax soth ahe ion and tax rorm e,ocdain toootarean that fair share on the marginal dollar of productivity. and the payroll tax is a very big tax. and 'sa tby it iryaex.

y e tta when we'rtrying to help people? now, if you look at an alternate measurof incomfor the the cntasurnalculating prt in aeslu benefits at least for the state of minnesota, the urban institute shows th you have about t meer r. usou ama ple toers pl o ul tampl t,o-gemth procs. dr. ies, could you sum up quickly so we can move on to -- >> so we want to have an integrated approh with dibuof inrt haouyuc stle reogd e minutes.

>> members of the subcoittee, thank you again for the portunity to appearorou ce n. lrno tio dienan ttays nst b lngat reatyes such as the income tax and the social security tax. the implicit tax is derived from phasing out the variousefs pamteo peurxeec,e xexit,y in el hnrovent acly a a major influence on behavior. these expenditures, i want to be clear, are a classic lil/conservative cpre d,ai, ote ieouee t w onashae t is ransti, romise that got us there in the sense that liberalsing have favored -- liberals have fvored these kinds of taxes as a ws covasav eke u pgrvi aysan bt nubof w

tioal t have resulted in very, very high tax rates. and although low and middle yoe i dns ct refgrsncng in ttate 'vne aotwon trying to calculate these taxes, the firs graph that you actually see here on the screen ofhoolnd creas inigure1b thhaut a ie increases. rates are low or even negative up to about 10,000 to $15,000 of income. 'srerat r ic hetgu tl inu h eam gu oyesnysh efct tte f a household as income rises from 10,000 to $40,000. essentiay, income and social

security taxes takeway about 30% arnis,dhe erlyil og - bnise, i we hchener eu -- these are items like eitc, that raisethe rate to about 55%, and for those households who happeto be arog o og ab%.teiswe atd alov trap is now what we call the twice poverty trap. especially in households who are at more taner l co tsvesh rts allxe rksiuc tetc geray encourage labor force participation but may tend to discourage work atigher income levels, particularly for second jobs in family, moving to -trkas n tmo a, p de mrs tlo

di w diourage wor among the disabled morehan a subsidy system such as the he rm.ge sbsidyat lisraor deophoncge r ie rthsa ant ca a jonconth the a program that requires work will lead to one tat does not. welfare reform hasone tt torfrt tc. heseceed amg. anstaninli veulindrof io o drs omarriage penalties for low and middle income households and, indeed, not marrying is the tax shelter for the poor. veiinir veams do hel thoseit efivs.n inceerso pr can approve school attendance and maternal hlth. at the same time, as an economist, i have to question our ability to judge the

long-tercouenc o te, heprms lym pem.ltu t lil/ervepre got us into this suation, so might it require a liberal/conservative compromise to get us out of it. and among the many approaches to wee rm feywhhink awo 'risinda rer anadng pra oby one with multiple phaseouts. two, starting to emphasize opportunity in education over wecaarvihedg coumption. heordiio rr t lr. eahe ghn emizn fft. ree,e cld p tax rates directly in the tax code so they're not so hidden. four, we canake work an even stronger require fei abtr pt mna raor l s ansih, believe we could

let child benefits go with the child an wageubsidies go with low income workersather than inthrko t tncngthia lo imekisihe exedogrn a basically, have access to the system maiy by going to prison. thank you. >> thank you very much, dr. steuerle. dr. bernstein? chaman dav,nk mbreenve det anuitg t myst t, herat bee 'ssia oadethe estion at the heart of this hearing. for policymakers to best undersnd the impacts of the policies under review,e must investige not justny w sitis y ede nuusesoe eed coax it- an important wage subsidy -- has been found to have large work incentive effect it lifts millionsf families faest wng

lyiswh anov rari thaino ceyimension along which these programs must be aluated. to what extent do they achieve their poverty reduction targets? in other words, to examine only e mainax rndwo sitiasatit tier praks ncetdendof empofgron rkov a on wl being. so research on these questions finds the following: while benefits of means-tested programs are by ditn ceinhe w ncveffan er ognanprms clg eitc and knapp, formerly food stamps, are found th edy hasldcts on labor supply. llg inom rnt mpnsie ovel fng rilitus t eitc has been especially

successful at encouraging the employment of single parents, especially mothers. a recent exhaustive review of theveedon ofaf n alp rarosouuo coatof anstnd sal sunce transfers in the system have a major impact on poverty reducing deep poverty, poverty and near poverty rates a14 pntinn u.potis le neinr tst tirlero y'heg. e:s poverty reduction impact is only negative lidge my effect by work incentives which in theggteve moo et he abthesh t s these incident and quantitatively large poverty reduction effects after accoting for any work disincentives implicit in the progms. heenesh d

ti gatlecf feet praa ucn einco of children from families that receive such benefits. for example, one study finds that raising a poor family's incomey 3,0 a year a 'satyl ant pil ec hta citth -foge soe t increase in earnings and an average of 135 hours of additional work per year compared to sarnco drhofaes d ceth bit t onvexp sri figs, qe, a remarkably strong body of research, much of it based on faes oves re well-implemented improves the school performance

of children. raise poverty and harm future generations in terms of t fiy,thteh w siti e, licykers shoulconser ways to reduce or eliminate them. in the final section of my testimony, i offer three ways to do so. first,lo mrginxat feg eoge ouofrsth crs c. idrkposu dce tpoio assistance and third, increase the number of jobs available to low income workers through demand-side policies. ye ian b s eas laintaofhi se hho the most effective work incentes for working age members of low income families are tight labor markets with rising pretax wage in tre,li s a acl earec j

ct ntinor er marnal x rates on safety net benefits. conversely, it would ba significant policy mistake to require resip wents of befits joailiide enamaofo w ceeshodeeb ailithsic cipeor ring poverty and the accompanying strain on families and children. thank you. >> thank you, dr. bestein. . no t yerchd th iattope h tont,on invealhre years looking at the research is that tax rates matter. and very hi tax rates no be matter where you're at on the anne tin we sendde thwee r is that because of all these various pod yeargilt, as dr. suee

ca u is80 ove 100% if youtake into account the varis state and local programs. and no one really designed the programs to be this way. haelteatooldcryt ketwadeedpo y raaspu in with, was designed well, and it was put in by well meaning people, but when you have 12 or3 different programs at e fedel le t slel anomesthoc tocr tndn t iht' k i'm preaching to the choir, i think this is somethi that appeals to a number of people on the committee, and i suspect that's why you hadheonorle dcan itretabo 'rin t ud diengrhatight

at odds, it makes a lot more sense to hav one overarching program. it's very difficult to implement, i understanthat ci w yonrmy theteretsthe state level, and they also get benefits from the township itself. having a federal government re pam bve vhiel fft,mi ss tllhete d ns utou but never the less, we need to do something so people aren't ans coress pou0% tax rates re h ldt s biisff to t. onind l t cod ismi a again in 2002 and 2003 there was discussion about reforming the unemment insurance system. one of the things we see with

sy i tifme insance plntefgo s,tppsh pet ff aut 30 or 40% find new jobs the first month, another 5 or 10 find jobs the second mth, and pe wreti uplfjil eymth nt h. ouentoent the gic month is ten months. one of the suggestions a inhe sene nceommieeas put forth 0an 2 w ce tmeg al rs rlotco erenplred eabegi monthly benefit as long as they didn't have a job, they were simply given, basical, an account, money they couldse to suprt their mi oretitl ucn omnge . maalinivat emmenscevis to recipients against work.

doing such a thing might be difficult or impossible f helf rabu's latpleee iz , lespd nt, sgran oroi out, they might not have college degrees, but the typical welfare recipient is able to figure out whether or t 's worth their ileo anat wdowao s pre ncverme or an y

in your testimony. in january of 2009 you were co-author of administration report titled the jobof inmepl. fecunemoy r towo.7%ithe administration's stulus plan passing. as we know today's unemployment rate is a 8.2% andbo 8or ththrsre o40 s ouesmo logeke h disproportionately lost out on higher wages due to the elevated unemployment rates cpait unoy r y fec caaw ps io >> rrc c a i

stated in my testimony. the wages of low-wage workers in economic tor est s igrrksehan themoy r higher as well. >> so what happened? ant ticha inaxak on safety net programs. that was the administration forecasts, the same one that on aiss the rst dgnd t ft treasury. that forecast was made by an incoming admistration that was just forng inhe ttisto

ecmy -thp was flowing at a rate of 9%. if you look at the statistics ok l t reson w, saw was the medium forecast of all of professional forecasters at the time. u autrith deaernd al eoni ay te reryctas ilentt wa matter of two quarters later by the trd quarter of 2009 gdp wasis again a atws ssswa kiheacf e ea ssal t unoy rti rise. >> additional work penalty the

new exchange subsidies work penalty the w exchange subsidies pvideby am po magna rough the tax code because the tee of a federal guidelines and federal porty tied linese for a filoft 1% rtve f aine induat tube that means two indiduals earning $22,000 a year would lo $1,400 a year in subsidy if usdarngmearri a nou expand on that? >> the problem was the afrdable care act in terms of increasing the marginal x ra gel. itrodes bssople al iurceowhe

rtte t phase out is relatively steep in order to contain costs. te iividls t fr f pin based on the phase-out of subsidies to the exchae associatith the affordable care act even on tower smptsnce induat t maalrate. i yield back. i itaaiaiirecognisr coaxcredit? >> the positive part, if it is possible i would like to eliminate the phase-out or blend

ildxpd itoige lend iou substitute for the type of social secity tax break that is on t s se pan ra, tom c b cap. >> the expansions congress supported in the recovery act have proven to be extremely arhiin a iou ernt t pam.a >> talk about health care in a little bit. if i have a high tech employe t filyh a

ses esit an informed decision for that persono stay with their group health iurance rather than go ouan benit soctyth a te s . mi iadern caalfyn is difficult because the state is mainly about trying to prevent anyone from getting health care but if m thicfalyndca choose not to seek a higher wage jobs in order to maintain tha eligibility for medicaid t lles wbu oot rm disn t t provide health care protection. we attempted to respond to both

d twothcton w pan cc for for pele to healthcare remove any sincentive two, cate annend neocoprtits >> addto the kind of nuance that i try to reflect in my testimony which must be brout, tsetis ut ntber -- ect. one of the most important was the affordable care act expands caus and rkinivssteateor of t sdi i with me today simulates the

impact and predicts that the affordable care act accounting fothe sitiyoea hend ive i ngot.pymt loh is what you mentioned. highlynefficient problem for people stuck in the wrong job because they will lose coverage if ty lee. nend tsuesly ea allf jas eecd wh t t e testimony was you simply can't do what my colleagues have done which look at the margina tax rate and assume they reduce u tt oct tig heros tcan chat bee s no in place with one exception, massachetts has folee anerch lth

a ne stth thmpt cts h re i massachusetts compared to neighboring states which face the same economic conditions but don't have that health care dieren andindso oy dtsal weerwaf t ledin sif thx bpst haucd afft without consideringthe kinds of nuances that occur in the real world. >> i yield back. >> thegema . haecd f mies >> economists and researchers have noticed for decades that the interaction between welfare and tax benefits can create ttncenveorowe faeswo ihati ptty m nsscomi s alabout in my testimony what has hapned over

the last two or three decades is cled ap ted out what used t ysk what those reforms have done, increased labor force participation. what theishong ictsdi wtnnlbeositino wee arnc credit welfare to -- incente is only positive for participating in the labour force. what has happened ionce yu to 15,0 at lay ckthoue onre wec of how we measure work and also something we discussed which is you decrease productivity but decrsehe worke sears takob

w-mekeoue b urce particition and decrease output. i realize i am giving you a more complicated meage but t codirionth thmenglde us au move out -- moveway from the disincentive ofedicaid and high income and highoint o tbl cactill hb o w itlra me eer people near to retirement tire, healthcare without having to retire. e tish bplicatedmeag whm thtilasi onou at e ci structure better than other designs. ene a iosbeand as you know in or

system we have over the last few years we have almost 700,000 more ppl o dab s d be cen. w l e tke cme whether you think this disability, this enrollment in disability has to do wh obtaining s littl incentive for someone that was disabled in the u.k. to go into the ranks of the employed. do we have a simil tpnur em? bust incentive to work we

could rely on their good judgment about whetherhey are permanently disabled or not. apng weon rk might suspect a person is not balancing the consideration, faces indidually, we face as a er wanwoth v extent that ey can. >> tt is fair. >> if you are asking the toughestuestion in social prmorheisledo we design a medmo tseew tiement, disability insurance favors retiring on disability and retire at 62 you get % higher benefits than on

each insurance so rees tofnc, iu e syem. cs among those who are disabled with huge medical needs the system has huge disinceive once you get medicaid to go back arott t linse yorelly yilstth lt yreaiavinto geacto t ste i don't have an easy answer. it is ablu qued ere madinctis armegiheh cak >> you wanted all of us -- [talking over each other] >> two brief points. and nuo.inl,hi thfoleare by

pushing out -- extending and expanding medicaid eligibility rdgo e dabd aled a ciore m 0 w sduces a cliff that is helpful. my second point is implicit in me f hl, tion was the idea s rastethe mit, fteth ty have in prior years and there is long-term -- using disabity as sue.placeme f umploent tt gngn me eahose numbers adjusting for age in the population. as the population ageshere cratigcapwre disability and that

prrethle w atat usacon ilti let o roll. >> the gentleman's time is expired. the chair recognizes mr. steuer fivnu nenengut e acttn sumer satisfaction rate remains pretty popular across the boa. small-business, largesiness, artin disi e ng is pme pe henvai wel mess and i don't know anybody believes the republican or democrat talking about going back to the pousys udmahus gasst crtoes tomorrow.

people in massachusetts are committed to making this plan ea it.nd nobody talks abo me -fo gac a raanueh of the things we did in96 with welfare reform which in the end was a series of artful comprose weidalkut tg,rartn inns,ldcare, day care, but also one of the things th was very important done on not bipaisan basisas vote peceupe a itrsins forward? >> if i may comment on your

rv ady thempact of affordable care act on business and creing the market ntefen ca ve tla f a lid ofg lae firms are more likely to offer comprehensive health insurance th their workers than the systemutsideaschet dvgetefrhe wos pee f jock e tore act would prevent small firms lose that competitive disadvantage to large firms in creek competg fo tt ilppwane wuprtthou e go far further in incentivizing work tn tweaking

marginal tax rates whether it is qualy child care and sptissnc trng eti ntin employment. t rt. these work supports shown to be much more consequential in helpin pple m ar ord ge iarna ra >>m refewng wh we saw the textile industry and manufacturers began to depart over the last 50 yrs i must tell y, sed un that somaacng hry vet bo, miie nov mye were inclineto extend unemployment benefits if they thought they could get another job. similar industry. nuurce ahefroaj nof ra

in e 1 cerll we through the same recession as the rest of the country and over 50% of t eloes hre emplef in o town. anyone who hadny hbungsiy d onhoidt h, aresop blolcailwos. peple might be working but not necessarily repointheir coe. stofk a g srkicn'ntgo b la the one we lost. >> a blue collar job, get late

fetwmohs de dis an t a few months of, in wisconsin iop -that nt.wrs a f leldun to b riotthy want to do. especially during winter they had job they wanted to do on the side in wter. >>nk,ma >> bgor fe i >> this is a critical debate that won't be totally sve today but our goal is to lif le o overttoat a emt eures t

results were people are self-sufficient. the thing thats clear today is op outbrio ft the dead zones and poverty traps and my question is real simple. opo .o we fix this to era if w ttart >> if we could address the payroll tax, mes t in falcomeax, very generous zero bracket, working people of low and moderate incomereinhe

yr w for 1%. >> mr. berg, my firs comment reflects the previous questi neloent cpeat a bi. f es aroam f qur ieteti thes a lot of difference for the unemployed and the disabled. the habits that are developed in d dil nt.iods of unempymt psa aha oreo cowondre are lot of other -- once we agree we have a social welfare structure weave decisions that will not go away. e tis wh reliv quen f sbefi whwo bth

the other thing which is much broader and -- our social welfare benefits expandg every year. puan draut wthert is ar o 3yes ev orrebls w and 110% more democrats and is growing. weaken orient that growth not so much for conmption of adequacy alareiren o findft me wa nt tdsk rioferrolst i don't want to take much time on. >> if we a going to have means nc rwhisse fuonafe have marginal tax rates. the best we can do is have the phase out be as long and gradual possible. era eoitst

eele t aias ftamps whthrginal tax rate is kept low. work support the critically important as we mentioned earlier. transportation and child c emh mo itaha hat wrk.r quvaabily bs more to the demand side. i certainly wouldn't think of vehemn climwhes toth thisndeque w tpi something dr. sterle said about the workaday world and learning about how that works right away before they get trapped. e mim w a oenave nt to ncve yngeo especially teenagers to enter that worked a day world.

i encourage congress to think beforehey increase that again. ts elck i k teneutes ln t i want to commend you and mr. tiberi for the spirit and argo tvetohi w ts ld doineaebe his committee tt is familiar with china currency and alstrade runierity thatxis beee of porty i i did not know to be honest. and was around three twenty million, which is the ey a tdoyed.

stinir act tove weve from beijing to lower mongolia and witnessed all the investmt in fructure. rathoiec stpod ohe eq obs rll tn t marginal tax rates and incentive versus disincentives people are noaie em. to work if jobs are thhaenhutow arngcr j we sit in a congress where we have yet to take up after more than 100 thhensrtnill lt seemavs tn tef jobs. i will ask mr. bernstein and

then a question for dr. steuerle also. atld etfhe ids b on nt fmeca w can't find a job? and dr. steuerle, the german system where they incentivize peopletay at work by instead ofyingnempymen they suy mny w b ea hg go outside to work? >> we actually now have a work sharing program that is reor p it.d th some of the colleagues of here may agree with what i am about to say even though they are more focused on the tax rate. there is no better social welfare program,o al wfa pgror latygojoorquat

rk from the employment labor market where instead of ly le rk emisexs f he whe ter a lot of moving parts, higher minimum wage and a lot going on but even in the mid of t d dagor akleng fork a sglmo tohe highest rate on record and poverty rates dropped to their lowest rates on record. simplyuto tt pam oue ryd lrn l f ante ahoh exs be t pt u mentioned. the german system is especially good at sponsoring

ucn eowhn'ships and favoring ol n' t whi ou. olueksi issue. i mentioned earlier you could change the incentives of unemployment and engage the employer in the sense that you ri ra lee thise eqe rdutwo be nt haomy h with early intervention which is harder for the government to do. there are ways thateou le usi the term collective i think what he meant was by acouad ventliogr anpoithng gwt

what models would you suggest for do you have any that we should follow to achieve those goals anaddress some concerns that the chair has raisebo ifdakinars tfi in a little with what bernstein was saying. will long-term engine is economic growth. d coe hiimg alfaysinror sense as we move forward 5, 10, 15 years from now. look at the government budget arbysi o, thpuanudee th weplngnnd tiore, ur o almost all of it going through interest on the debts and social security and medicare and rtt faemmen ways f tt

ifiesrcowd rimpen c g long way and ife get good economic growth and relative wage f working serve the grg tio idom th gvenouwe x s its l ooits going twork and engaging in the market. [talking over each other] tgemas me iosts of $trli expired. on page 9 of your testimony you say it would be a significant policy mistake to require recipients and benefits to wk oursnsgdeate avlli. ith se guntsome maga wfa rm waon require work

without guaranteeing, quote, adequa job availability for everyone and that makes me i airuen idyouef eq jilit ouhealth-care reform. i didn't mean to imply there should be a guaranteed job for everyone. what my statement i tiweao , ntonlades if lot logeor ma yilind there are far more job-seekers and job availability. obviously that is a function of the recessiobut even in a si c i edi t t w- l mtsen acze es ly oureefs. whi d e successful moving people from welfare to work through a period of flimflam in the latter 90s is aclytefu e

cen y w lfrge regarded -- it really hasn't been over the last decade or so as the job market has weakened. vetrg nde ss we rkf reng to require work and expect to reduce poverty. >> the oer cot? esectis io mira discretion, private charity system also will relax eligibility staar a plntefnd h us tbjof th mcuirtaes ab pe ha said that it is

understandable that when we have inrobust recovery weis tho >>we te stimulus money, and could have cost less than these people were likely to umer splsi wi br iti ra ts e ar >> the last word from -- okwhapns the months o, if ywerogrs dric ias spending on wide variety. and the point, we had a

haarlfsy an ial kdsf ac not only relatively low incomes but higher incomes. thhaogbygrdhe woha our witnesses coming through here. it has been very helpful. heig tt oved eainivo aly weilntue toerthmehe to adess the broken processes between various agencies to rmonize this and the point that mr. brannon talked about i en ia pa oneylubt ou i d ecf wld y hemi to have those inserted into the reco. with that i conclude the hearing.naleveio

>> cing up next on c-span2 a senate hring and deceptive tipr aifoest a mpire. t.s. institute of peace in washington and later from the cato institute a look of the e tre.e court decision upholng rrr mpion mfpot marines. a group of 19,000 african-american marines in world war ii station at the seatedon p c h li 100 stn. hiry tf n sp

liberty. historian edward berenson talks about the beginning, controversies and changing meanings of thi american iskeea tta cal inonf om jesothktd amantovef city, missouri saturday at noon eastern with a booktv on c-span2. former senatorf missouri fit fe t gr'maion h balk. bs ntct, isn for list from ancient mesopotamia from the unirsity of missouri special collection th story behind eight manager banilabl ae96th w v bles aes america. >> a former warden takes you through the historic missouri state penitentiary.

walk back through history in all he missouritait gorn nsio is wnd from jefferson city, saturday at noon and suay at 5:00 eastern c-span2 ce ld ecve r renac s foioouli titis. telling people with traffic tickets or late payments tha they can't vote. the committee is considering criminal penalties for such ti vet totrea chd ev >> good morning. idheep practices

and voter intimidation provision act of 2011. intended to protect one of the humer and others to introduce the bill. in 2007 i joined similar to leslatioby bac oba la h ivin progress to protect all americans and their right to vote. we hav to do all we can to ecop aesso othe rge daalhte e first amendment right. because it secures the effectiveness of the other otio

ery thg r toeeg t gornment. and deny americans access to voting undermines that democracy. rmwheo ac yte smahe evodowbo. we never had any indication of suppression of voters. otngesr le happen erre mmpta tn ci be cete cawe k a the result of that, corporations rather than individuals are ecl esng more influence over the heg trte don iznid summarily striking down a

100-year-old state l with corporate contributions to e rdcote tt e aigns ev th w bec of corrupting influence and corruption that occurred in montana because ofho se orcobutis. ccntleor l dindit cpa and now take another step to break down corporate money driving out the vs. o wof coornsbea po int rd us ectenal eisenhower as president why can't we elect general electric as president? the wayhis is going tha may noe faet to.

inta,mos vityrisly, chairs the democratic process, i think that orpote money we are seeing owo all that could be heard in public discourse in elections. country has come a long w expaing t r ve. rret ohior weulor significant areas we overcome, gi -r o by water holes ting to ononus e haeme use oreesentives who near wh he tried to vote during

that time and was saved at the last mine by hinsk he tluf poic literacy taxes and grandfather clausees, brave americans get n'ns v dcu -- background on progress. recently increasing access restricting voting laws. amrode inticn ndther rdto nna conference of state legislatures, and to support 46 void tt did not

consider legislation. but laws that make significantly higher millions of eligible thaslae including yoger voters will be personal african-americans, 35,000es d e i p my statement on the record. i remember a vote recall estnjo de nhe th10term election the call went out to 11000 democratic voters inmerican

before t close pls, h idn sf thwao tvo ofeserque everything is quiet. just watch ttonight. thev-t s idobtau that -- telling voters -- cos cover o'malley and the election had been closed. canmerineors grciat in p te for the whole ticket. the need for deceptive practices d voter intimidation is el ulib rsroslngot

reinquicatns restrictions. it offers new ways to force these prohibitio. ng oleon tffti emtif e rmn th an 180 days of election. i might note the first winws bved grngryha esthiead about in history books but to see it in a recent time iev w mchairman.mystenn to paraphrased justice scalia, freqntly a bill reses air

lyereful study and end of quote again, this wolf comes as a wolf. eeofecom f th bbeayas t oral proposed by then senator obama at the 2007 hearg on this bill, maryld ou cig lere veomplained attse podl srtthil std that he was, quote, offended and outraged that his opponent had displayed signs with whatme avo moat. ste ipic chly pte bhe

first amendment no matter how much it might offend or outraged politician ununaty wss leear fo enn orin tnk enngtn conspiracy. president obama has an accurately attacked the supreme courrulings that protect political speech and now we hr vehestiola t nsti ame tt d alt the first amendment protection of political speech and this should e 'snd cstutle all americans. e day'wis rer toas, quote, arguably fraudulent information. its structural and soundness fr iperft.

yono advance what is, quote, arguably fraudulent? blnt sonect is there evenf jueptmant ta on oisl n terstand the dangers of having the justice department inject itself at the hest of politiciansnd tprut aiuongceca in solal ,uo effective as the ability to charge that one's opponent and his associates are in thsoly ges chs aus department investigation and even better,

prosecution. even worse is the bill's isio for pvaht on. roslelverite suca oelnd never swards. no intermediary is necessary to file a civil suit against a leioticaopponent on the eve of thcl wfou llor fir as erhathpr tricks on the eve of the election. the effect will be unable to respond effectively toeview m mosf-nsip bng no cnehe of criminal law and although one would not know it from the bill's supporters the kds of tbis ud inmand eewhe tre

aly p ber law. that is the conclusion of the justice department manual for criminal election prosution. those who settsll j pne ec.ry pcud the makers of the -- as one calls -- existing federal law is violated by prohibiting fal iorti atfctnolli ebi ttemo r practices that witnesses rightfully decry. constitutionality of prohibiting varis claims of endorsements ll he ai uilhe emurcin hded h tay bl aoor what it omits.

voter delusion to alwing ineligible voters to vote i a serious cotituonal llto abooth th omadmtriors denied florida access to this database of illegal aliens for nine months and then sued the ste for trying tmove ig vs cl t oranheta moliblvors the election and prosecute those who voted illegally. if we want to go after deceptive anis loesn in federal elections opereeg ose voter database to make sure vor registration rolls do not contain such peoe who are here alnd dsn't t ce s me ntial

idhemselves such as whether or not native americans or wheth they served in the military when they did not. this bilisenti paa'x teate first amendment rights. >> you have seen firsthand what happens when we don't have the ability to stothesngs. i d s arat dericeth legislature but also in the united states and a fr me,asgo aad ess.tent b >> keep the record until the end of the day.

go ahead. thdiy nd a pleasure rurno itfos leadership on these su. constitutional subcommittee holding hearings on what is li mwoo .i we will continue to try to advance the abilityf all-american as to cast their votesor e d judiciary committe 2007, i was proud to be a co-sponsor with senator obama at f estiy acend senator schumer.

vote. give a little bit of the history here. it has been a century and a half sins congress and states tified t fifth andment hestio 1 h est r of at ant of race or color. the amendment gives congress the power to enforce the article by appropriat ar yrs ued si tkediiclt i not impossible for african-americans to register to vote due to literacy tests, poll taxes and out are it harassnt an violence. the ngss andhetate nstin che te ib ptaor a t on the right to vote. in 1965 congress finally enacted the voting rights act which once oh dimioail wasupseto

vo oe sfacor co antothe lest prsiaxes that are being used against african-americans, latinos and other minorities to interfere with their right to vote or ndesthch a prte tonio thestactics undermine and he rode the democracy and threaten the integrity of our a local system. mr. chairman20 hri rdonsme plf ceive pr ffitsaheeang coons ples including listing the wrong date for election and potentially aimed at minority communities so ey would not shoup to vo. llubnsvon dad doctsoon dny,niect gr no e to psili odertion arngot whnpaid

tickets not to vote or face prison terms for a loss of custody of their children and as e chairman pointed elon2006 wof thrnof eio sepiofite p ou b mopne w cla todeatnd eord prominent african-americans who had endorsed me. an effort to confuse the african-american vote. this is not freedom ofpeisisep h nac eio te er bmits. is important to congress to point out. i want to bring out deptive tithavhaed si20 ss e o ridtsted macagg rs rrinatn about the location of their polling place. the same year fliers were distributed predominantly in african-american neighbooods in plahilsin pe oan

an opaar etul ate tiayup o thniesse nt to users of social media website facebook falsely stating the election had been postponed the day. .. wag a sai t teoremrac y caidwoactori dtic ticket and, as you pointed out, the

2010 elections in maryland with the vocal calls were made by the id taying, candidate, decr cdaor rnnd fmkma eed vote because the election already had been one. senator grassley, you are correct, that person was prosecuted und state law, del l anakeureio ra w t fraunt deceptive communications will not be tolerated. this oession is carefully drafted to comply with the first amendment of t constitutn. cstyp demef ti t tls nurhe integrity of our election process and to make it clear that we won't tolerate that type of communication in a federal election whis serasiiny te it ior f t

toe to to nt oftihaey need. i am proud that attorney-general holder supports this leslation. he believes it is needed as a jo bal tnhat they cano their >>ld agr w, the haecti --ndme's, i you could atts wetect by rsentomeby, empll cron dgsroo be totally unsafe could say, well, this has been certied as being very safe for your heart ndition, forxample nodhatro sa,l,eav airst dmritay tt. observe an example?

rpti as kw. e sec tt ot d r first amendment. >> thank y very much. i appreate you being here. wetillisu ons coteut sten m pt tmes o rd f u thank you. >>hepa ohe taicteppio pe frd t

-- the names on t back. i think you're all right place. ll e ooue m tame. url emwie rtt ror i apologize for the voice. the elegies or wherever is in the air in washington te iernt no can complain about what a beautiful day it is. >> the director of the public policy departmen, lye mmte cilhtwreoces on she rveer dree from university of texas law school. it's good to have you here. mhamaan mahead.

yo m for alling this to las itfovi gher thgh vndnsnf egle to, policy, an advocacy. we strongly support deceptive practices and voter intimidation prevention act tohe 11th. foei till ses scepprt ption in 2005. i want to focus on my current federal and state laws are insufficie.

ri the question and answers are happy to respond to any questions. ess a tut o s. the flyers, robo calls, asl msas n he a cpl ofes, some that have already been mentioned, one in particular here in texas. this does speak to the chest f gpleoot inn t vgn e demoic.s additional we have another fire here claiming to be from the virginia state board of elections.

e d mvon andlinsnd t pprsot on november 4th. once again, this is a deceptive tactics to get a practice, false information. fo yrsheomprotected s doend isypise ecve tcs nd ectroteion paan cliti. and this is the largest type of protection and better education effort. back emmitt waout of these efrts d weeali tha therwas needor sh sln ro66 hli whecvealls and information about reports throughout this country, we have alady reived calls over a half a million people thei ectns.bout pbl in my cleill sakurth tnsnchate encorei tconsin

recall election. discussed the insufficiencies of federal and state law. while we agreed that there is proper enforcement of current voting rs, t stu ov a pr rctan pvi alwa sfidionot particular, some point to section 11 be of the voting rights act. and as an adequate measure and preventing deceptive tacti, if is iomy hentennt ovio and is c near pal t shecve p , a states have a few laws protecting voters in wh dvect ws of practices.

thrrlao ify esvariions of these types of deceptive tactics , prosecutions are ere for rare. imdiel cre at minformation is maen auay t bt o tri r on action, but also the corrective tion component of this bill is particularly important. inatwilliteissemination o t usexend iclyxpss na cer h re myld. i would like to address the clans of voter fraud. in short, the evidence does n tate ts be ra and osote ntl oecti practices indeed are intentional

effort to disenfranchise entire communities. strongly pport the deceptive practices bill. asou comepon o 50th anniar he that we will alsbe celebrating the progress this nation has taken to ensure that voter rights -- to proct the voting rights ofll. me iow tom ilou's d eo f in the collections and pass the fed to of deceptive practices. veimseyen le, cnoheut inasothat lg ago that congressman lewis was a young man marching for our right to vote because he wanted to >>ct.shto v

ur next i a counsel with strickland's, bonington, louis and atlanta. he specializes in the election, redistriing, a lisfas. rves deero ivty. st h ye. ouhote wbe dearof the record. rng oe b 1. it raises serious constutional questions and because it is rncve bau i voinda, ot. the first point i would like to make is that before congress creates new tools for the

department of justice and private individuals to use it ngrihe ohe thoo isely est bhe ving rhts are generally underutilized and should be put to use befornew criminal penalties are created teging tot cef t f t'ro. we know thategulations chill speech. the bill under consideration may chill legitimate expressio ofing of even truthful statements, and it will do so within 90 days of an election. eltibeauheth federal and ste ue cid. duha te w sho sl h

k wth not simply whether what they're saying is truthful, butather whether that statement could exposehe am eos rty. dhatowom probably thursday, we are talking about false statements and the court in alvarez will im cna pore power of congress to an wknhaeu. anything into an oral argument, but it is going to be an interesting decision one way or the oer yro to i g dar jti andwys tls aw that put them to use. frequently they put them to use trying to pound round pegs into

square holes and squarpe r alkng kw,new, somebody knew it, we also think about whether they should ave welan it mat-t seo wt deemed reckless. is that? a stateme that is made negligently. ifritesreed, also likel to s mt t a ne td ate iewled. and all of this has an obvious effect on the oppincaai ikeabin my s

thudicial inquiry commission, that chance that have governed theonduct of th wthtameandidates r ls wress drega of whether that infortion was false and statements whether the information disseminated would be deceiving or misleading of andnlyie w noight intees. individuals, the as of their opposing candid it's, make complatsoiciainquy han ctth cdi it would require them to come and explain the basis for their statements. that had a pernicious effect on at least one campaign. flytays

before an election is a sensitive time we should be read to heighten constitutional concerns. withespect to uersion ha te 94 d rera absentee ballots, and encourage the committ to address those. thank you forhis opportunity d i wle ynswer y tiyoy wihest pof re. i noticed, i want to put mething out. the record that you have said unrncsiaut position ts th ss, 2007.

also note that two dozen seven new york times article reported adstonrawnyea theh orze erud.or and so i put that article also in the record. n wss w flan prtot time she worked for the new york state legislative, help america vote act. woroeitd her law deg er asitllit, . agoul statement will be made part of the record. please go ahead. >> thank you, mr. chairman, senato for the opporuny to testify here tod authis -aivan hhis b

arinhiostei of voter suppression we're talkg about today. a nonpartisan nonprofit organization dedicated to empowerxice, ordinary opoces coauh ee io per the ti pteion coatin rveme compints over the years in our state offices around the country from colorado to wisconsin, ohio to pennsylvania. ea as a bno t ustos mni prsias become a household phrase in recent months, and this is nothing to be proud of. there is a gap between the rhetoric and the reality of voter frad tha cnot we fed i hrea to o orded, i ntimidate and deceive voters to suppress turnout in our

election. the single most fundamental ca bt ectl ari t to aer tore nurion where partisan operatives utize trickery, lies, and to seek to change election ocomes. most americans are shocked a apllheheear e cigst, owha d a w anbyt g i t fus my few minutes here to talk about some recent examples of deceptive practices that have affected voters and have this bill wl address ose pse t ctfprse pronvel. w reia fm teo be ms ecse o aep fire or robo call we do everything in our power to help them access the correct information so that they can te, but we'tea f erfe pbl cnovr

mbrd08 sint ect ters in a heavily latino community received robo calls telling them that their precinct had changed and given incorrect ca i g iad t. c rr d out s cm fil his front lawn. on election day his office was still inundated by calls from confused and angry voters who wonder tir p cl cednle t reelon inlic the necessary steps to make sure that his voters were able to vote on election day. that is not the case around the country rlr mth v alad rteecvi ro thalnfti. specifically butter stated that the call saidf you sign the recall petition your job is done

and you don't need to vote on tuy. ennt rgsly al somed o ec p clion we issued statements, reached up to the media, called for immediate corrective action and that voters know what their tus paipinleio matado hstues that adequately address deceptive practices and, where they do exist they vary greatly in scope and strength. evtionnd rrefcee tiul drd o. coec an hee ora iia deceptive practice must take place as soon as reports come and. this legislaon estlish the amk jhan aftleionoo

edth b w b ster and more comprehensive than existing state laws, and the critical compones to combating deceptive practices requires a song paltid cotict t sentth pha wihect we meca can enjoy the free ercise of elections. deceptive practices are among the worst forms of voter suppression, where weteioyle ver itoeal fromot. rpettorsre virtually never caught. therefore, made is time to do something about it here and now so that our elections really can f, b f tpl ppateorniosty da lwa tueio. >>ppciat you being here

correchisrsho slat oyar carbon of infringing on the constitutionally protected th a pnt rmt. chtoe t the first am endment, the right of free eech, the right set p y gin o n y th ari actty o guaranteeing our democracy. so i watch that very carefully. headot eere hi fld chngff on speech.

>> thank you for that question. the answ to your question is, we havepecifically put in wkih yresdh u fagth eure iot, indeed, chilling political speech. it is merely tailored and serve -- the s a cpeing rener tte th pn t approve -- we have to show that there is an intee to provide misleading knin dddiollyhey tinewhthyp ch limited within that 90 kaytenrom befor the isimionn and als eg ei

theyp o plne tsyp aiecessary to conform to the standards by which e supreme court has set foh in order to ensure that the firember protections are pred. nessg , i and one of the arguments we're hearing against this legislation cutlva ptee plent of ceio.dn ths yonit >> you're right. i don't agree with that. the evidence does not bear that. we have documented. lo tst lstthi betharbo t herelypw of t or so that actually have

deceptive practice laws on the books. in fact, they are not very virous enin l w arinplrhte we toav t depve ct a firesccurring. malands an anomaly. we re in czoppat plaf hnece foen cdent cze asasndat earlier, we ed a uniform law, particularly on the federal level to insure we do have this type of enforct the gomend a viivctn. t lnni starting california latino voters stating that it was a crime for any emigrants to vote hegrar w

prmecaniz. and just a little boy going with them to the small town hal in wa t by ledo istedotnt ataaled le my parents and my grandparents, wives parents could vote just het s. ius oery r pl intidion >> unfortunately that is another rare example. we hav experienced that in other states as well. we he experience those types of fes ao a thi azo teg let ll crimizoai t vera ticket and therefore they cannot vote or

are ineligible. it is particularly discouraging have thes tes o fir the einggeto as mentioned, the flyer that you spo about was targets a emigrants. well, unless i know my history lesson is wrong, i bie er'tn r atamanat motbee s ouhe ss. yway poi its something thate need to allow thryorluat hondmine this is, in ic ithigo v. yim hxped haer questions. have a couple of questions for the record. >>ha mn. anu thit

ri o an litigation involving political candid it's, most of the witnesses today see acdehe bightsitive rtsha ul deseomef t riofiodctice, the constitution against iac mnce statements the effects of brega charges against decanted it was disqualified thaud. ofdis cs o st with a respect to certain statements made in advertisements.

ne aecis as tut,heer substantiall unconstitutional. deregulated speech that was within the scope of the first inereopl f uiee stop speech which -- with which they disagree. that speech may or may not be numbingly false awit f th wha cinft he ldivea t tt ey t opposing campaigns for those reasons. congress should hesitate before it crees ts private read of 'r p tny pribha a a

olnsfel iminal law. onef the fewhat is not is the endorsement provision. could you ouine how fedel law aeamilian of dndntiding acs hbeer upsey st lot? >> there are several federal sect11gs, including one crinal ghct, which is civil. forty-two. prioas bug8ireheuc 2 steawend if the department of jusce is not want to use the existing remedies theit should explain why it has not used them tod

clms ttda pty haot.i tit first amendment problems. al e tmi,is whether that i in fact, true. endorsements are sometimes subtleanndsedy soe m hapoorf privately with? and the bill would giv somebody a tool to say, to file suit and byerpoout in fact orse m doureit to make

truthful statents, and you would have to defend the truthfulness of the statement that you made. >> tesod ct oroctpeech and would privet the dispersal of arguable fraudulent speech. it is arguable fraudulentpeec aedec dee t dms d t 'tnkhatone of the points you can draw from the or argument transcript and alrez is, the court seems to thishe fst stenhat are false to much less statements that are arguably false. >> did you describe the unnstitial chiin eect crhis w

ann ayfon seo w wheso threthe bill and in that regard there are things you can say that are truthful, some people cannot nonits,pacu e enedot eo c whether your expression of opinion, your expressionf, with respect to an unsettl question,rime uteeitch an po m dreul g aawav w t of that speech. you're making that speech against the possibility the you will be sued and the chilling fect is on to which t premcoiseadly inndir and s >> wto tnk. stempo t theor bill from the naacp, national

lius.association conference, t and senator schumer is coming to take over the gavel. thank you all for being here. t,irmat more. woskny ss topeor moment about the procedure kno as motorcading. and thehatinf aench isou areed by the measure you're describing. >>o,in i athrart.

of deceptive and and ted a syntactic that has also been occurring. >> describing for the record. an ienal magual w issstial when people, when organizations, there are those who attempt to send materialsr dumtaon anf ioronse ba a is not verified by no fault of their own then they're challenged at the voting booth as not being aesent or tht h. enint als b e rhate coundhrleec,arlarly even in the last feral election, especially in 2008, we

enuntered a lot of voter miannd o twas occurri al t w h,rtarec oe reosris ongoing. this is particularly sad because we know that there is such a stark economic situation that we argetting better. r,plllavg inry t hre dhereple g edvantage of the situation in claiming that simply because of family may be initiating reos pcend ere 'rt ib th c n brtfr e th nhevide. >> exactly. >> it also signifies that there is a sdent away in school, a soldier. t' tigfi nou gs nd nr ea. >>t'gh peios auolical

organizations target specific neigorhoods in order to vote challenge the vo out of that neighborhood. ey cosighoas tyh nges t tsor. >> of voter caging problem. >> this particular bill. >> yes. >> wel thisill would address sevhe fse it nss i think, as much as we need to, the vot caging. that is one aa in which we also support otherypesf leslatn. srtimth p jwa tear len.sea my >> no, it does not. >> very good. >> i yield my time back. the chair will note that no one

at.risplacessegson. al yornis.n e ttait y ask if you wanted to respond to the assertion that federal law in this area is sufficient as it now exists or lease could abt yonrnd well, iicedt does not criminalize. it does not actually address deceptive tactics. neither do other federal atut. iraws alhim eotee uli in ortoetofiss regarding fliers such as this. >> idealization due to the fact that the law is in itself inadequate? ts ineqndasee iled lceors rd

utespe claims. in fact an apartment of justice indicated that this is why they support this type of legislation, because it wou abm birted deivaclis. >>h rds lny iookt expanding our existing body of federal law quon sinstinctively t eq, tila if'rl autril ovis y rhet ttaaws not covering it, is this because state laws are themselves inadequate or is it the matter of their implementatio that is adeq? >>ish r mt rtheyre te ded'vat rl t aot -- there are number of states, upwards of eight or so that have types of either fraud s

osec pctze t stes b ulid atne and there are only a couple that actually have specific deceptive practices on the books, and they are not -- and they still are not clear tirit tlhat o depve diulrocu als it does not necessarily provide for the required corrective active compounds that we are suggesting here today ad tse.e toupoont ou note the ones focused on protecting federal elections? ldtefad

states adopting legislation that was more robust would you still bove federal legislationn the co eleong de oic y. m weorng onh we w b t try to work in the states to provide more robust statutes in the beli thaesry onut addialt n aays the case that state and local thorities will prosecute, nor is it the case that there are also providers, the necessary inrmatn dismina hli ofnt rn, to alnou have targeted communities, particularly communities of color which are vulnerable but may not otherwise be protected rnso cme

gaghe cce t h raegng the with an action and that that might be of use? >> think that as an attorney myselfriidct ecsand re pner ret pll te innyan abused, and i don't think it is justifiable to suggest that simply because there is potential for ase that therefore you shld not enact a coul eec aha otnghat t h he rht te >>ndan that, but you, -- you would agree with the fact that as lawmakers we he to look at each bill that we looke at and try to figureut wther oue cingsy o res ur. tisite- >>isite ti sk, thi that in this regard we don't feel that

we would be creating more har than good. in fact,t behe mppp aceld b pving osseh to deter and stop some of these deceptive tactics that taking place across the country. >> okay. i see my time has expir. thank you ve much >>l,ou t ie sa ll ie rd h ced lnddbo is. invest in my and the lead co-sponsor on the legislation. it is absolutel despicable, what some peop do. and tay t fst enenotonth setsveesotny no amendment is absolute. we have libel laws. crd.ot fsely s f tiorgrap l

akouup sof >> you support anti pornography laws? >> yes, senator. >> and you support libel laws? >>es,enator sch. o tirme cleanool t, i believe that of all the amendment balancing is a very important thing. it is easy to be an absolutist. abryrend our nstiel the a ways balancing tests. i guess my first -- soaked some of these practices are just despicable, sending on oic l thteotng sd j dd tepca e ng, to mean people like this belong in jail because they are really violating the

fabric of our democracy. i just fespie fa in dcylee d ai e rns because people have found ways to inrfere with democracy that nobodyould suprt sussotg. other groups have done this. again, i find that to just be amendirishehemocracy. gumy, you would alree that a specific threat, yot g too codrohited,

tt true? >> i think it could be prohibited. >> sorry. i tnk coue ib u eg. >>l, m i cld. meay h lom atsnav l vefitun hhell. with the 15th amendment chump the first amendment? >>inete n,gr for the sake of argument. >> assuming thathere was another federal or state law, i think that you could criminalize >>y.onduct. thenuen ndt bo ibg w it rehrt step down, to step down, you can define it as you well, why is that protected

or why does n the5th ent'rup te ti fr.k tear t o knoweoav tke milar questions, but i would like to hear a direct answer on that. frgttg andtiple effect am b irtsutibaty lyg to them. there is no intent to infm or anything else. fel w iinstand tha, senator. thssbifetri a punishing. >> i understand that, sir. my question to you is whether prrte tw is unconstitutional yo argt to my est.

>> aen tha it raises serious constitutional concerns in that it may chill protected speech and we d't know yet whhe ud ste st vs aare wlner another and may provide substantial guidance on the ability of congress to punish the speech th shrunngtruthful. nospg is neicly istiha intent was to prevent people from voting. to me that distinction on a constitutional basis betwe the direct thr wch w ee @tvgr w b af tou begng tuon protected. this is not a real distinction. it is not a difference that makes a difference, a the scofessors useto s l

flant nkou inis a ior sis remeer what we're talking about. we're talking about lying. we're talking about intentionally lying to deceive paipg ectm t fme rs orhould be protected. as you sit in your opening comments, if you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater -- >> false. al. e liti. ouig v cannot be protected. we have to do something about it. and what is important is not bui setbotizing those actions, qughisorctivct haaven i onatri me rmn t reporting requirements to my you

know, groups like ours, we have been researching and talking with voters or the years, but coreiore sat aigthang >> wldus -- i would simply agree. we completely believe that this is not protected sech und. fersndacn gnaccntornd th is iarcurly pernicious becse we are targeting the dollar both communities. and so i don't know that there th has behat t say other than tng ain da r. d wtaha in order to provide -- that we cannot provide for the prection ofundamental right because we are worried that erwnheind

e ot s ssilyt ch b unpt bsere limitations. this isalse speech. this is false claims, mioronresentns, there not. dlittheup ith inhetehat. future, that case does provide ill some guidance as to what we are talking about with in isil ha bt.th ha bho tt t al. and so therefore that aually still is within the guidelines of all we're talking about.dhea. d egesove ti set ill wn f i a touot only protect e fundamental right to vote, but not chill polital

speech. >> we thank you. callyt a y cor i he,ut inna or in criminal law with intent, well, you're going to chill something. some people might do something carelessly or whenever. at wave ouon biehatnt s, re goi to yno 20 t he iisou. ofavweeal ou ul tenaau >> if i could briefly i want to be very clear that the committee as always supported the right t as o tis nbour efenf la

we hbo --e because we believe in the importance of enforcing all theseights. this right is fundamental. we do have tse limitations on lse sec >>l,nk wonksor s, a aprtoh >> thank you. i just wanted thank you for your ch teay,hi had the hen psiat ri t cmieeorerekece esenendyrg atn. thank you for the work he had done to defend the rights and borders across america as well as insed stie of the voreran hodrs. su ihed ous hibl to vote. you made some reference to recent efforts, techniques to

advance voter suppressi and rticly stbiay iesns tt new meludioc m su -- voter participation. talk about that and what y think we can and should be doing to the chair that. >>ure. m y t th tie facebook, twitter, something that i barely know much about. this type --exesgi ingcrthunin hav nic icgeudtsho wre ilthyp technology on the internet. we have seen messaging, messages going out throughout college campuses telling -ivm e ortica- e is auen is particularly

distressing and it is much more difficult to try to stop some of tys octcohe of tactics if w av -ndo,gahe e lygeng rtarhoomti that are utilizing these types of media. so i mentioned facebook and smfug.r accounts. sohaak bectofin ureereoie ghehtormation out as we find out about these types of incidents through election protection andven through -- we have a new application comin ouof srtne msu rmn t wave soounohi the ngt address as best as possible. >> so the goo old fashioned practices of voter misinformation, voter suppression through fliersr

afrmioustohe internet. >> the sample that was cited in george mas,itlyony, students at saofm aknfma >> we have other examples. i can't pull them all and enerate them. there are other exales, and that is just one of them, icarti llha tre , corrective affirmation was sent out in order to make sure that these tunes to get the right information, and that is someing we want to encourage d happene b is arte e s legoe auorities.

>> i also understand there has been more active and in some cases more aggressive use of challenges that polling places fesmosti cce orspecifically icisic yo atlitme ouat >> aut. there has been this wave of voter supprsion tactics taking place across the country. deceptive practice o o twee i intitiacti. opnghalldtllgla i distressing. targeted at certain communities, communities of color, and in communitiest-udts, ornionhateea treng send to my belief, a million people across the country to be challengers.

leinopt torc r toti att utn e ol r of restrictions or requirements that t voter is not going to have to -- or hurdles they have or aitl vacione and fortunately we do have that help american boat act which does allow for peoplefter it -- that ey don't have the necessary iifiond a d ott isl ll hahate cedsae nuaranteed. the reason that these challenges are put in place, and order to create the type of confusion and wh tesdepeople a not aware of r sf pmiio ortoereats usat t plice and also could alternately change the election because you

have many voters who thought that they were going to be able to have their vote counted but lre vosprsihaus tel arivo a thability to vote on epic to the ballot, demanding identification, proof of citizenship and so forth tguorha tiresa tihelldere vermper on w istricts, bring cases of voter impersonation from are there? how despread the problem is this? wl,hebe l, i n msivenot widespread. adra, demeahy indiced earlier, ty of massive voter

impersonation from taking place across this country. in fact,hat was insteadound was that many people might have beeheme rd inteio ore adrarrhas nted by election officials. and so this was not an attempt, es n reasonable considering that anyone, if they are not -- if ty are undocumented to go yoseollinglao ec pale dd ngisa on suonats beg tota that there is an attempt massive voter fraud. ..

t yo bers of the panel. thank you for holdg the hearg open for a few moments so i could join you. >> it was worth it given your s. r sln ndo e edpl

le yo d tngs for whatever your politicapurpose it would apply. with that i want to thank our witnesses. this is important stuff. esprg cr tharre wben bmstatements and additional questions for the witnesses. thank you and the hring is nablnvtid. udatns >>llhesp2 caroline kennedy campaigning for president obama in new hampshire. leon panetta speaking at the afthroestitute of peace.

ita ahe bides me purchases and pay bills. you are watching c-span2 with daeange raaffairs ofat li a e eli d ksn span you can see past programs and get our schedule at our web site and join the conversation aliaes th july 4th holiday we are airing booktv prime time this week on c-span2 beginning at 8:00 eastern. the esident's ubbout t id ferrtoo toacamd erhef

our presidential electoral system. is titled selecting a president. at 9:50 almost president ofil12 whoanor idanst h okn te ight this week on c-span2. 24rs of ok osp rrthouular a0 stn cova cnt nncls. his book on catch phrases used by liberals. at 9:00 and s nbc argues the u.asd rpuawa gh. naf bos :0as fr softeel albright, on winter. at 5:30 conservative activist david buchanan discusseser book bay and her ys:unexpected rnifnss sgl

cndtineer whheteut t art of intelligence. booktv all day tomorrow on c-2. namre twe in e inuct ob campaign's new hampshire headquarters at the net for -- ppe] rat committee. >> hello, everyone and welcome for joining us nit. inucth wul lien tht ntsa few quick words

about why i am here and many of you are here as ll besides the aur]hat we todmir n wme teto support barack obama. the reason many of us came together was becse we haa r cotr visioabt whats ban iuorha ply ruyon make it in america. you can fi a job, you canuy house,end your kids toolle d a ltlbior est a evn r ovheoury ar n toin education, energy because the innovation in infrastructure and reform our tax system to create good jobs, grow the economy and pay dohet iand

ppe] >> president obama reminds us of another present who captured our hearts and minds over 50 years ago inspiring hope that erea nvd ramoerng nsld at at the american dream through hard work and education president obama mas me believe if we invest in our future that dream will il be a f se. [applause] >> thank you. >> i sre that belief and gives me great pleasure to introduce someone elseho shares that vision. she is an thor a att a er sne w ines sen ng wa welcome to caroline kennedy.

[applause] are aru? ks cg out. i am so honored and moved to be here where my father began his campaign for the presidency. ca -- no? yr. okay. thank you. i cat think of a more important reason to come here eld ex omas o the united states. every time i go out for esident obama i alws meet people -- somebody w ss i cay rsvon doknhereyo

te.o flsntth sonrfo see you here still fighting and working and soin pou mnd ty srit meouyea he inspire me and my children and a whole new generation and i always thought that my father's greatest legacy ishe pple inedgevoo neonnsedri anhe ipiration down to theirhildren and grandchildren. that is the kind of change president obama is -- has iniateand is tokee asreea la ithug >> there are a lot of

similarities between 1960 and is yr. mimrtis tiepses k o onicictwnwo idt obama's vision embraces opportunity and fairness and a better future and the republican vision like richard nixowoul tur kono mu of og wvee.mi enaspiby bac obama four years ago and looking back at that i still am. i am a woman, mother,awyer and edatornd ik obishtg r poity d innovation that make this country great. four years ago we knew we were going to chang history and we did. anhe tld loo didn'tust me. helshtheind erteutpreser

of courage. the courage to keep fighting for all americans no matter what special interesfor personal attacks are used againsi itese.an i'tea e f bl thrent signed was the willy ledbetter law. [applause] enye no p tefight back as. ano idob d doellanso is w i. so is osama bin laden. that is just some of what he has s t and olattr axp oiodondeecor vent c ey, doubled fuel efficiency standards, put hard-working immigrants on the path to hope and restoring our reputation arou world. that is why it drives me crazy

wheneoplse w ne wpoca la dt we l to do i fe ent last week in years in new it fing etief ngm e ac t yn that one. [applause] >> education is an economic ise because the country's that out ats ou etsomro ae e enifnthnnd national-security issue because other countries are training the best engineers and scientists and it is a civil-rights issue t wie wte dentsflo caths in m i

important than how we raise and educate our children. president obama has initiated groundbreaking refmso ory ac, rdnovaonexar nkt hetuntoafbl busine and given a tuition tax break to middle-class families. oron sdes i is he. economy that is built to la. that is not an easy job. he brought us back from the brink of areat depression saveeutinst a n pave noera do ths t o llse ise s ea 4.3 million new private-sector jobs over 27 month that is why we votedorimn

20 [aus re hsr ea t finish the job. it is time for us to do our part and we know the campaign is going to be divisivend wru arinse agt o rr an tho e problems. when i was writing my first book on the bill of rights 20r 30 years ago -- thank you -- iet m y sas he process. when i asked her if it was worth it she said something i have never forgotten. it iup to us to create a gornment that i closeo yono imedy e . n'nt a government lik

that. i want a government -- [applause] --t raba h.eo fi fais faies anur fure thestin thi election alone. he needs each and every one of us and everyone we know to work our hearts out. ohainhe96elonndid oninverecit dnavenen that is the kind of difference an individual can make and in new hampshire is even gger thanat o h tonsur te go po t make sure that it happens. this is not going to be easy but the best things never are. i know that we can do idbe aoo eryaym ual

noer tkee o it thank you so much. [applause] applause] ts mi. ycaus work is very good. you haveeen married -- naleveionaleveio]

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leveio naleveio am hpy to see you. >> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> hi, how are you?

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>> tnk.[iibonat] ud cns has nsngo me. i am running for state representative and when i announced i was running i announced where your father did.

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>> il qckry 9 years old in 1960, veterans park. my dad put me on his shoulr and i was 5 level with ur dad goatchhectn wsoe idgo to bed and the next morning, was keohyd [inaudible conversations]

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nscr lpa eanasngn.afthroeato ur dision upholding the nation's health-care ball. later a house hearing on using mobile devices to make purchases moann ldalemy r i marines. a group of 19,000 african-american marines in world war ii station at the segregat monrt pnt cp tamp leu i cana10n. or stue of liberty. historian edward berenson talks about the beginning and controversies and chaining meanings ofn mbol inadstwog thledli

whatever duty is assigned. by the end of the day you are ready for rest but don't get a ll eight hrs sleep aboard a shike constutn. twed aman or tif oan enedbod constitution durg the war of 1812. >> the sailor was in fear of being whipped by gwen moorat 9 tails carried by a petty oic phse sll use n't cat he bag. tails.'t want to see theat sunday, 1920 democratic presidential candidate former new york governor al smith.

den seon paa tllkbo u t a t d ouheldhips thu.s. is adding military presence in several new areas including australia, via not in the philippines. he spoke athe u.s. inste ofce after a brief introduction. >> good afternn. we are really delightedou are enonf apeal i iclon, psidef thinut tort ening off it is my special pleasure to welcome the chairman of the board of the stitute of peace,ines t you.

mr. secretary, ladies and gentlemen, im robin west, chairman of the board of directors the institute o er t brdf t ind om tea isthftctin many years. we are delighted to welcome you to the george shultz great hall where you are right now. the headquarters of the institute of lihaac i t sri ohuni. llthnus our great presidents and the war memorials to those who sacrificed themselves to protect d wotos.ofnt s on w ug public/private partnership. congressas supportive as with the private secr including ics t en ns

dech lre w prvaits rid personal effort and funds to complete the project. toght's speaker was a tireless leadern the effort thonor dee igwi. we are deeply grateful for this assistance. the dean acheson lecture was established by the board of the institute of peace to recognize a great figure in america's relatis with the world. he was present at the creation rue onthsity tht cmulls on t mlited, imaginative and effective policies ever created in the u.s. or elsewhere, the marshall plan for t ronruof 2thd d wefrt tey ffencenthe iea soda asymmetrical warfare, failed and failing state's legal non ste

actors illegal better relious and ethnic disputes withn exederonomty siegl rs pyeft thste eareenn ia profound importance. that th country mt find non-violent ways to prevent and r iso help fin acl tianhiis e g n-gov ery ara o deployed around the world in such challenging places as li s ayrtan, pakistan,raq, nillholas

alceough i the contributions of these people, u.s. and international security should be acknowledged. in an era of lord resource a r resi mda g min e ecg smoanven e ground. i want to salute with the greatest respect and gratitude the men and women of the instite of peace a partners rv won rm wa apeef d. rniot oew solutions but also the food and women actually responsible for implementing these solutions omh s haom tsiof pacnd boennsva av. what they have in common is they are weit bearing people. they have no choice but to

decide and t. nis kents wiur pgr or diol w wntdu our speaker. [applause] >> r a special honor to have secretary leon panetta with us this evening. he is a unique and distinguished rv limppr of the institute of peace and secretary of defense a acts of fishy a member of theoard of irectors. is a priteiten w qurs p tsur

liasirn west just observe a management -- monument to o commitment to a more peaceful world. burdened as we ve bee paecby w omn ea i me fundamental national purpose of america's engagement with the world. peace building requires ofonra aomed qu torf sdnd rky institute of peace. before introducing secretary leon- the and panetta let me ig lrs o wk mmy.e onee proper piece establishments was envision by the first president, george washington as

early as ulma, itookwo nar eareo m t embody washington's vision in the institute of peace which was legislated into life 1984 just one yr ov e hentatsp t ae ntbu w nowake to the country's national security. r work today with the military span the spectrum of whawe as. p pct slls ofonfl management to collaboration between civilian and ceos and military professionals as they pre th dloen abatancouc nd wooofonic

the institute's activities on the ground in iraq and afghanistan over the past decade tars tout ed us tbud rong itn antand les such as general david petraeus and admiral mullen and admiral roughhead. senior administration officials andbers e it tin aange of ue an as an independent bipartisan natural organization, center of innovation and matters of conflict management. we aederkey sss ss s reineniat prtienalle and reviewing the quadrennial defense review process for our country's strategic posture. the iraq sdy gupasno

blstro a tipaa a blservice. one of our more recent contributions has been in collaboration with the u.s. army's peekeepingnd stiternstis u p cpi compiled and published the first manual on reconstruction work which is a how-to guide for the military and civilians who are il cri thave beav b w. ntasin wrs dicated prevents dramatically new challenges to our national security. certainly when we compare them to the challenges we facen th vitryowas this belve t p etco. itite in the 20 years since the

institute was created our mission has panded because the role of the united stes aa e its rion mot with agencies of the government, otr countries, non-governmental organizions anth pteto mm eor fos da dwi w burdened with the cllenge of nuclear proliferation, ethnicndig cflicd state's, omloizn.liesf heleure series provides a podium for our most important national leaders. let me say a fewords about hereic i

arpaonho h range of experiences. 16 years in congress followed by servic in the executive branch. directorthofcef mamend bge eqlyreobama' a diorth cia of course now secretary of defense. secretary panetta's public e s ogornnteelyo hifeyla cte te ititec policy based at california state university. his institutis a non-partisan not-r-prit cr s me vesal a oisub i would suspect too much to say that the highlight of his

career had been his ntributions to the iraq study group auprtor adtef tema trk see from my office winw a few stories up the hallowed ground of the natial cemetery. d ngn - f gon lincoln is watching from his memorial close to the korean war and vietnam veterans memorial. ec lioakusilng rty rpoibity to better for still -- fulfill our congressional mandate of making t ues

le lhaouivin us your time and wisdom. join me in welcoming the twenty-third secreta of defen. [applause] >> thank u. ndroctana y f tt ry thvion dived fi dean acheson lecture. let me start by commendingou ano de lrs thhes.nstu e. a yourestep down after a long and distinguished tenure here. don't get too comfortable in

retiment oufromdy k whel atain i roo hd in the e. isti hrarm lfro research center into an organization that evitat metto lihroue d. thai sff tiraq, to afghanistan, to libya and other conflict zones. that is rll w tegisonere in nooav r faty ail that

would actively engage in the effort to preserve peace. i did have the honor of serving p h in srt stedhens waeeu ow fo secretary of state jim baker and former congressman lee hamilton. ullithheor of i sdyro m vemptrio t thba ae strategy that ultimately brought that war to or responsible end. the inite'sorhas sed s. asanouti ur in doing so, it really has stayed true to the spirit of the man who legacy we cni dhen.

hiia arthur/injured -- arthur schlesinger once observed in a city of gray an n, dacn d e blnu f another and more vivid era. 60 years after servings sear s aoran yrsftisdeh, soniqu o strategic brilliance and personal bravery are well remeed in thi t viusjoth pitatyyooc

reception i am reminded of the time when newly elected president kennedy paid a call on dean acheson ahiseoet ho rtbunn declined and asked for tea instead.cordg eae r t an wld ackn i iou havbe his very dear friend. i learned that share more than love of sffri e unhe we were both relativelyoung and we were both fired from our jo.

anesas fed f tur 1933 i fifr t office for civil rights in 1970. in both of our cases we burst heardut ifrhe pss. re rvet uay bein ohithird term. i was never in danger of being a e io very o fortunate to have had the service of dean acheson. mecatohen ti tr faced more international

turmoil, uncertainty and conflict than the dadduring at darenerd t egust mths after pearl harbor, 1941, and extended through the truman administration. obecy landscape was inor war ominous. stalin was at the height of his power. viloen.t uro lay in ruins and ul test its first atomic bomb and north koreaou iad h. hee

gentleman from massachusetts for