49 states now, mown state being the only exception, have concealed carry law which allows individuals under some circstances to legally carry a re tcai t i . ercoedh idw. wcoutm , terms of what it tk to have a concealed weapon. but it certainly raises a question tt wasn't beforus ash yeag aott inou prsiizla enemanldth une. we tngutewup acaho b empowered to carry deadly weapons and to make decisions on the spot about the protection of thr hos anmmitie h inkeisar moom cenha tearo. i'ker on ysi i e, i f california, we have the issue of openarry, carrying of loaded firearms with very mimal reem. ine tpe ldheccab ininr unisy . thsu rl ilis iny s, m t trayvon martin case may bring this out later, gets into what role law enforcement plays with its oomtys. son lel lind t's suioerwag y hbodatest onpis? ane cet th ti and thidea that we simply respond and stop without inquiring why the person is suspious, is it their beor t ttey

wendmi ti oca tre araodnd 'r bl ths e ee statwihe t stand firm and tell communy members, i'm not going to stop this person. because he or she has done nothing. do ve to loo at id at ece nn rchew, ls inyaye mauit of cni inctiache oere,r emt was very strong. but th conclusion of it raised a question. and i don't ha it in front of as ialnd 'mtg ec yoidy er t enemcoitre te tiny mmunities. can you explain that? you need to turn the microphone on, please. >> my apologies. i think it's pretty clear from what wve sinediaeports recelypelyt e sesel s ths t dby rct heor coit red t. and i say that -- i say that openly. i think the fop acknowledges that in ct war eed i tiesrear tenghe enemofrs en dstththh mmy . t ts mpnt ec you know, i think the professor talked about the fact at a lot of times in minority communities you have people in those communities that are a valuable resource to law enforcement. i agwihat. in at awornt d prsif rct,s ssto people in commities where crime is occurring assist you with the enforcement activities.

and so i think the roblem thou, hacohae wtoamhefos foerng g wr e lethtat thfos show up on the scene to deal with the situation with the information that they have available to them at the time. d oujob,hen ho, sliheua. >> ul ar hoouorri ievi isataw enforcement community has extraordinary power in the moment, the power to arrest, the power to detain, theer t rr aolm cobl u p one,l tionayu't qul tpremise, do you? i don't think the fop quarrels with the fact that law enforcement officers he that power, nor do we quarrel with the fact that w enrcemt fihobed acta int,arcobl thmyti st siioheoud ruthffs had to be accountable in issues of race and we accept that and embrace it, because we believe it's proper. we believe it's appropriate. >> claimbf gschugy nt anu tyoou e onrostd measure profiling. >> well -- >> well, lete come to the question and then you can cenlplyoosn. d otte qly i d. ee latanio thpocad ti ti t imeg san cose of that.

you've heard testimony here from congressman elison and others about what is happening to muslim amecanscrosthe boannythre fiedh spic nion ey aiawi h. iteahaat be amior surveillance and investigation. i worry, as an amateur student hry you inh yusid omatpe ape icinorarii where 120,000 were rounded up with no suspion of any dangero the united ss and thr prty keomemeed coedauhepp topafanniro whhastated edtehejase ld, ckhete ates. therefore, ty were branded as possibly being a danger in t second world war because of some cotiheghveh olalrlil gr w dueh inn oua t in neinterment camps were justifiable? >> no, i don't. and when i say that in some limited circumstances some nsatofivls organizations, geography and religion can be justified in the r onro at ng

thhaanat coern r circumstances of ethnic profiling and religious priling is okay. alm ngth a unin sha c nebed. d gyoam i teon for instance, you know, suppose that on 9/11he f hadotte li ima tan indun of gredpl, of grounded jets, jetliners had a backup plaand that he was going to frine fi w osto yser bhe aar inn lemaha foe rdreor a descriptor. >> no, no, no >> when you talk about the class of people guilty for 9/11 and say why wouldn't we go after th cla of letrng fndfoan o at scorh enemcae. whouclth because they were all muslim, we ouldake a look at all muslims in america across the line. >> well, i didn't say at. and i think that the line at yoare intw prtod dipis evly ay ie on ink giio tars d . isn't it predictive when the fbi, in my hypothetical, says,

you knowthe dividual w is g lys e a skyscraper is not somebody -- it hasn't already been done. you know, we are trying predict who it's going to be. and we are going to look at th pageisn gred laan hon tesos lid . 'rrkagt cl ae gotort oo adialth abicam. that is raci profiling, according to your bill. but i think it would be iny on cinise. th w- ou'tnkwobe asle n d. re t wnouar going that far afield, why do you stop with arab names? why wouldn't you include all of muslim lith atikeheveor theeawehe y. e goto top ssriyoveta ghndedbee live in americand we have certain values, that it does create perhaps more of a chalnge awornt aitemamo- muorefenny sp b isn amica. >> listen, in my testimony, my organization's whole focus is on the ciples o ues um taharyio t iayisre gotosoirta ere i think it would be very

unwise for congress to say that law enforcement agencies cannot ve some limited consideration toindur nioneotian u , gibaou >> ltoer t nagr w has patient waited for his oortunity. >> thank you all. i guess what we're trying to highlight is how complicated this iue mrleo uhioue ern alrod? >>ba yeah, i -- i can't say i understand because i don't. i've never been int situation. t fahau' l enemofr yo ob, tin l ven edh ic byickeurti pretty persuasive to me in the nse that you're now sitting in the rolea w enrcem citr totth mmy. ane ercas ivindunola rct nion and st really -- ihink i understand the problem. i just don't know where the line between good law enforceme and ra plindd ns ust elu thabcoss 'l tirneju on wyo w whou aneall that somebody looks suspicious in the neighborhood and you ask a bunch of questions, well, that doesn't seem tjustify us going in and atsond kng sody rngra

bowebe f es b y so'r an untenable situation. and when it comes to the war on terror, mr. clegg, i couldn't agree with you more. the reity of t facis, wdne m tor ant . e'mesiouer at gwemori ths gs in america that are saying some pretty radical things. and i hope we follow the leaders of these groups to find out what they're up to because megrn rrm n ri w ouhtwit ti rio w ouhteg orwit fiti pe who are local to america people who are loyal to americ who belong ta particular faith? i dot kn. buknhi if lnfmeomty in this country fails to find out about the major hasans, we're the first one to be on your case. why didn't you follow this website? he said these things in these et ahyn'e suisele anyo gomy isllt orer ans a air force officer, when do you go to your wing commander and say, this person says sometng that makes me feel uncomfortable and you do so atur p. jdoknhae er owt prm d i ink in the last decade we've made some progress, chief

vis anday hg leatthaks f onsobogha mesequfry. e ouoo redefining it but just collecting infmaon to show exactly what happens day in and day out in america so we can act loll i ynto meg, egut w iteshtth te, fathat haea bai a fce arin tghhis very similar situation right now where they have groups within the country that are espousing pretty radical ias athey stelsoe,in frrtattoor sty,an yitt radical things. i don't know when national security starts and individual liberties begin. what's your thought? >> i wantdo wtom ofcoel a it e s o e have rtin the war on terror that we have the cooperation of the ohegorof abri amu ic >> oe t ngof coy haenug grteis oe rise, generally speaki, american muslims have assimilated in our society and our cuure, thousands serve in thlianh e acly epl rl hyosla >> inkt'gh eongveanus tar moraers no muslims.

i believe they're christian. you can't just look at somebody's name and conclu things about them. mo-li i ryor tve t cooperation an trust of arab american communities. so i don't want to give the impression thai think it should be, you know, open season on anyone on account of thr icoririg si sg e in brcstans -- >> what we should be lking for is actions byndividualsth gr. stenadatd sis tthinoer prciignoue taking one is the activity on the internet. that's what i want us to how do at i think is ve lid usen mor ebsma yopteonnt cosa svi jia ovgh i tk mpnt. t guess that's what i'm looking for is sort of objective indicators of, you know, thiis ttint ouhe sorhaou abteig s t vi th teyevhind ma sme wer loud oon the internet, that's action. that's behavior. >> and here is the pblem we have. if youe anir force member anyou aer mm trondy meg as y

hao k,l,i y th agoto my iou >> but, senator, if i may interject, nice to see you again, senator, thank you for yielding to me i trt chng hin coy 'sdid tfr chhoouratne wenwahasnqu speech we want to protect. i know that perhaps my organization and you have different poin of view on abortion, for stance. yethyod ul coteoie t mei'haiyo i yndodomel in tan wre to blow up an abortion clinic is a criminal. >> that's not speech. >> then would you feel cotasullth tirtsifo dialo apul b wig loupan abtion clinic just because they happen to share the points of view of e radical who wouldlo a clic. ow w nee mfbl i tor inr h. >>noacwhou ng >>thntis t dienathae odious, perhaps we find difficult, but that is what america is about. democracy is a great many things, but it should never be quiet. but if we all agree it's not the america we know and love, sir -- g tisrebe giioulpp tup vihos ns t ventxpin yourself in an aggressive way, you can be radical pro-choice,

dica nsabon cael wuo lio l. u pyoin t e s in t tes uve de olvnd wf . and what i hope we'll do in this discussion is not ignore the threats that do exist. e lngom rega tcoy. d nsr ofe. d pewiot s sensitive to this dilemma that we will basically unilaterally disarm ourselves. anwhent cos asly thmiiosuf e evas f o grion system this hearg highlights it. you have millions of people who are undocumentedillegal, and i would just beryen ieoalmiac frfgstho hne t han hanla n a gopp bse sbo ks hial i could be greatly offended, but the fact of the matter is that there'a downside of illegal immigration in tsim thayoha prm leome reivigon rm anu thasn ry heg. wse we n wkith nato cardin to find something more bipartisan. >> mr. chairman, can iust answer one question? you asked captaigalead h ever been prof. ta aat unvoy, t in's teg,t onavbe pilut a a law enforcement officer, i

have profiled. that's the part that we bring to the table that in ny cases may be implicit by us. it may bno malice intended bu tndthy, re i tt yav aref oe le olhaoueemoto hedd s oeue th were at the table. so i think for us not to acknowledge that it exists, to acknowledge plicit bias is a human behaorhano i emro ue we ne t hseccabso wdo havth diattc il whe'kibo. anit'sasy to focus on the small percentage. i agree with the openi statement. only a small percentage of our professor belie arra. if i ws le rait wbe er obto. haouatra i'm going to take an extraordinary risk here and put this committee in the hands of senator franken. in sus, e cvondat gr a htoe toan ireiz anll yon your own time us and watch senator blumenthal proceed and then i'll return. >> thank you. >> megth haheel haselln ve sormehal. >> i have a -- if i may, i have a question, chief, to follow up on rk yad e eenha ti unwhirta h u ilnd if you could,

talk a little bit more about what limiting principles you thk ould apply to profing enisd tily anusegatin urw. >>. e platndt hewapo oer in oakland, you would have an area that we would identify as high crime. isa veccbl theesohasts min of t naicd e n, eyectyte tsuon on myart and many others that any white person in the neighborhood would then be buying narcotics. the problem with that assessmentit attaches imit tnt ighoo onay atghooule ju, d hect a whan ye imizevneat lith twhaggd t only reason why a white person would visisomeone black is to buy drugs. besides being ineffective and insulting to the ghboood, itn'ry i jid wo sowe br,led w atehrs so sne lng a so exchging money, somebody yelling signals that a drug buy was about to take place or the police officers were coming works a lot tter. gpr ition e umce w i k iiouorul u taty im pliheu' log haalass aso doing. in other words, a person -- people that when they're selling drugs, they engage in rtain behaviors. whether it's how they drive,

whr re fiv ves r, sth atldspiche ti i otnkanntin icceapri o thheyou're describing someone that's committed crime. in fact, senatori would say what ends up race ends u ingisng h stor 'vens aim ai dpeonelwh we et -cdug couriers and did not get what we were looking for because we were so busy loking for black or browpeople driving on a frwa we were proven wro timand mein wse or oomty ndedthro i e ic o oin ewssti w me supposedly identifying a potential defendant in a lineup can be just plainrong caofe g ct ulueeth >>. f t'sh i scnce now looking into some of the danger of basing convictions and even arrests merely on lineups beuse they can be inra ifaye hest cupliasut fi gin r c ll instbee e pp tess race. and so the idea -- d't think we're suggesting that race has no place. so if you put something comes out on the radio that you're log ckmasi otl,25nthid a ert ulak s at wouldp . i could understand that. >> objection.

ut ticas tma anssen te. e' tcest t ouino ed inehr. r.e,i asu comment on the general principle that re or other similar chteicneus foenin pli induca dacng or undermining credibility and really should be used in combination with other, if at ccttima cot, vindoor whouou tnk aut tt? >>duct is what drives it all. when you talk about -- and cause, you know, i'm the commander of the training adindemend 'rai oerl ti e heng tab hep fr t stop type of situations. it's all driven byonct. if you're going to pperly teh that, you teach at is enthndof on ye rmg t cctic treolin im ait raas pin t. thth dacish y uldhave criminals who are involved in criminal activity who will now use, you know the racial prfiling as a ra aeycoin ngnared op caofth cna cot. i k th's a prumptn by some and wrongly

so, i believe, that you know, no criminals ever complain against police offs an that rimils ouno t awlathe dori my eie23e iterra roup snegad i criminal conduct and have them say oh, you got me, copper. i'm guilty. they don't do that. they look r anyay tn to tet o oat prs. uc wdr a it e ra iw f pa bikth yo g towsare's something you can use addition. i think the courts have already told law enforcement agencies very clearly you cannot use race heisfo h yo . cot t. buf esny alhathwetr fomngt n' need to be fixed because you're trying to fix it with a law as opposed to just saying, hey, there's a problem and th prlem isadicrk. >> iymets whs ive l rct aclye than 23 years combining both federaand state as u.s. attorney and then attorney general of my state, connecticut. wobeveow to create what you have charitably called distractionsmmes ffve lnfme buththneth le lla, a toviuie,se ars prcevi

diio pe he departments who may not be as aware as you are or even othe witnesses here. mr. mero. >> tnk y, to umal ofr , ste mevi your fair city of denver because it doesn't look liej any of the major cities i've visited in any 11 years as director of the aclu. with all due respect, yowill forgive me f havg tooint t ye mi sen i w i nrn ohea we already have. let my give you data that we know quite well in new york city, thecount'srg ceart. e , 200to1, erree 4il st s. min. 88% of those -- that's nearly 3.8 million -- were of innont nw yos. theaherehe ared fum thssa on ared lebr in ra viy a much better place if you're puerto rican like me and might live in denver but new yo is not a very good place for people who are afcaeric on rd6800w yos tohe n rky liceeparent. 88% were totallynnocent of any crime. 53% of those re black.

34% were latino. 9%te rkanu unrend0.f l s. now, with all due spect, yosay is iall nduc dr. us arthfa behee. fas t i prm i d assert that the reason why -- and i think one point where we agree, the fraternity order of police nationwide lk e trust from communitof cor thyoved uc ataobf yollthmues co iuld asert that the reason why you might have that difficulty with the communities of color is because they know these ts. eyotw the knheuty' exenit atprely ac nt e wveprm. lecollect e dandut in place some remedies. your point about the supreme court and the equal otection clause givg suicient cfort thoseho he wroed by pe,t'mpot . e emurseth