u asir ghin t y tit about. >> host: it has been fantastic to chat with you. >> guest: thank you very much. o atprm hi authors of theatest nonfiction books are interviewed by public policymakers, legislators and others familr with their ri afarirerekon u also watch after words on line. go to booktv.org and click on afterwards for the booktv topics list on the upper right side of the ge.

anwrdfrvy donthelaonf iependence. i believe over the coming century america will connue to play a leading role on the world stage. thexioces of ou otm >> minat d sr inst siotg. >> awtng bookt next, rachel maddow talks about the u.s. embrace of perpetual war as a way of life and looks

sivim. ori arad sirsge iou han5 te >> good evening, everyone. i am lynn, president of mount holyoke col ch aaause oortwlo o beenng evening. rachel maddow is known to all of us as the host of the "rachel madd show. the critically acclaimed msn raerchakosu ttfr o blisiod at baveay i an author, a scholar, and one of the finest examples i know about polio commission for usingieerin o rpulnant t rl ppe]

>>nt holyoke has been educating women fr 175 years, th dssey bookshop.oud f such an without him this event would not be possible. so, joan. hr.lause] >> what a great night. first of all i want to say happy held85av ob er ltdy d s very important and my political development. the odyssey bookshop is honred to be cosponsoring this event with mount holyokeclean

e erdie thll lpl g [applause] this fall the odyssey bookshop wi be celebrating our 49th anniversary. la oursitclhs over 255 members around the country, and several international members. we have an icredible secn thav ng eod oo bt goonwin re eot wife, which won the orange prize, and open city, which won the hemingway an award. soncot gt an'sst eaet,ratirs, ou prent. we also the gift reading

program. this is fantastic for grandparents a answered and uncles thioand i aregdpar diboacntr d. eeurderntg oupanning ages two to 18, the books are giftwrapped and it is so much fun. i want you all to visit our website. just have a new websitead noyon rc eks u dybco anvce except the kindle. your ipads, tab 26, iphone, android smartphones, you note, so eaeaol cliques andr bricks bookstore. i likethat. new boks, sell books, e-books and er the next few monhs will ralysanut

okemetos ghor prt or llnendde oop. host over 12 -- [applause] >> thanks. we host v12 v ar d ntteouut cawie ur pi 5a.. s kien er owr championing independent orinal women's writing. itchsocndttk is the uruly . bosstiesr of 19th century paris. different times, what rachel be susesn itnightb esalitgato coso t ve th the five college women's studies research center.

and an incredible recession will follow that at the cente with sertteo le wretiun - critcally acclaimed new memoir redbrick, black mountain, white flag, svah s sorhend t g dtmat t ok ic. april 19, a new book, ar spring's, libyan winters. on the 24th, michael from islfthceat fiy ne, april 25, national priorities project, which is an organization that we love dearly. boa legudtoteheadquarters is n

at0u, thll e rederful -- [applause] >> we share a woderful tfer prt,nd hls esote aldi men that the reader go into, class f 96, and executive director of jobs for justice is seeking -- speaking ptirs l veqipo h t hadlca gar md john weitzman. [r]y, i am mried toi. ttaigng ed. e'er pe wi i,adre a nchet1:00. so, no inscription, no post

photos. we'lbe calling you out by the gn rus, of dnse nde mbe rr want kep the line going. i really would like you to join me in giving the odyssey staff a warm round of applause. [aus have been in credible. i is my pleasure to introduce another amazing woman, karen, professor of german studies, ctical social to ho cge ndrctor e cleom ses se cr. n wo testo g llet oday to hear rachel maddow. karen? [applause] vn sote ggnr nkj

t dication to this community, south hadley, t the mount holyoke community, that we've celebrat authors authors who come hereey stu,oa ahar la many people worked vey hard to make this event happen. i'd li to take just a minute to thank some peple bya apiaourk d ttak of flewose studies resech center. bridget, senior admistrative assistant, gender studies, mount chbubrwaorulege. e,nk. moav onaed peple, technology to make it possible for you all consider comfortably madd.ticipion of rachel

alik t tf ci'sngettmpplcke yo mseg th [applause] and then finally a heartfelt thanks the president lynn pascella. she is ver modest. she's alsoa fren cotaonaiosou . isee . k ppse i had the privilege of directing the five college women's studies research center, also yelebrating an niy, we atnanaa rdplycrtpp wrkfein hs,iv, stand practitioners come around the world. and here in the pioneer valley. in fact, as you know, the pioneerys i latcnentron mi iewrd

[applause] >> and i invite you, im not gog tooto whoe iof ts utaele t tobnd vi o ck ut e our upcoming events in the next couple of weeks, and we're always open to the community, so i welcome all of you to join us. we are especially pleased to omchadt in a itveo oe a thic phe dw ae'opt bring rachel maddow back at some point, along withother women whok le ro ad woto cotuth icte day. and we don't many of you will jump into the fray and also the, commentators in the public here, re, viral, cal,

glal aoyewrdof i ye waiting. rachel mdow has generously agreed to answer questions, and again, she's been working tirelesslyhis week. shs ovila soha et ore s mics. will will have two on either i'll. one way up at top for all of our students arest. d onnon lc a il oeet wel g one mic to the other be prepared to line up after rachel's speak. rachel maddow is no strnger int, tf u a ahe sta hirad dohe odt holyoke massachusetts as many as you

know. and as president pascarella mentioned, she is a briliant scholar. s dge fstrd er, rdnvt s hdaran my w-wintis sthenso. i have read her book, "drt: the unmooring of american military power," and i recommend evneclg rs lo ws h o soa far. she argues that the military, the u.s. military has become so private that many americans stay gototgrth whole pross o e inusfnete nnonybtee t stofdy toddlers of military parents, anda bir, hunted in bachisn, pakistan. emthsb

ok o f tf whwaal he public record. to listen to what your elected officials have to stay, read the documents and also follow the money. cher oerg ce tbis bu mos reic noaotli a erve and not even about good and bad guys. it is about america as a great country that is forgotten one of the things that makes us ra i h an ak att a de f out t toheddha is here to have, to continue that big national and i would say international talk about it. [cs l]me, plese,dd

>> you're embarrassing me. thank you. v forur mnte ftbi3 ♪ happy birthday to you [cs apse haouy much. like this wasn't embarrassing enough already. i have never ritten a book evoio e okaan n.

isty t tot i don't know who knows how to do this, right? is there a nrmal thing to do? i don't know. at im plninndi tharh'sta ca t hoabtaent flll o little bit about what the book is about and then iwill happily take your questions and it io the night i will sign books. are there any objections? [laute arnoneall ght. ma oe.oti a e that it's realy nice that you guys haveome out to see me. you may know me from tv. i'm guessing most of o fr yonweogou ab hiidis ins untry. and that is not your standard, like, saturday night let's go hang out kind of thing.

i realize ths is not tainted i la,meom le pesw n ce f m tacu heead u d idea i and are here to give a talk about is very heartening to me. you hear over and over again all anybody wants, this is not the ea stu. thheinwody prlytebheou t ad know. because if you all like me and want to come out on a saturday night to talk about the military, you would probly sothpop her h lietu es rt at 'messing this is probably a good place to meet new friends. we would you like it peace be with you thing at the end of ami e uutan

iclygeeo oo like what you might get if you bred a common pheasant with an ostrich, like a miniatureostrich with a shorter ne andsab it' asetnkasprirs gs mreipe wingspan. but the little fella, the houbara bustard, has recently provided crucial assistance in making america's war n afghanistan and t spll overtopih esnnmiryk ir on ry 1,st i o f weu.s. special forces from a surprise nation on a compound in a body bag, the most infams terrorist pnet wihogivi a ad o ehs oemee kst taa ig sceel osbideulvebeen living in tranquility is a few miles down the road of pakistan's most important noted

acemy. nab award crawling wh current inet reie otng l? enyh explain how u.s. strike force and its very large helicopters could fly into abbottabad, spaniard an hour on the grou andthen ea he init b dteet sop ama aelor victory lap, the pakistanis have the enre episode is usually shaming, but not so much on the bin laden in our backyard pa. theyocnte a ecco t otiy h ses ac teoded tg tiinour towns is not acceptable to the people of pakistan. the former president pervez musharraf, the d after three. is a violation of our vereignt the otryrye teenhiino n raoo ioth gald

a spot of trouble in covering their respective but they did deflect much of the civilians either. the united states, the eminded thnit bhread urg itfoll veateorthit states would ensure that pakistan's national interests were fully respected. ally, schmeling, the pakistan peoplderve some respect. deatofg t naggd odst w brcths. huwnr m e haen running out of an air base in a remote corner of pakistan called baluchistan. unfortunately, in publicizing their demas, tttec avatarhegls sorvadors ki lsls a besiha airbase. [laughter] this was cause for an uproar in parliament. the fact that the cia had een playing armed drones out o

rfed uhl risotizof tainrii the ia's rather dumpy looking high-tech unmanned aircraft had been used mainly for surveillance in the early stages of the war inaghananb hereesberh caalfo04t mornt n20t george w. bush administration had used drums to a lodge airborne attacks on suspected terrorists and paxton. when you mbn assoatok i09 nr r thdulium m e ainstonus as a matter of policy to officially acknowledge the cia's drone attacks. but in the days following a big t, ynedom a an of videeo ike a rainbow, remarkable atmospheric

happening. these drone attacks have become the centerpiece of obama's recalibrationo ma' di c t hmvif w e aditioh ten li aes in shamsi. quote, tht base is neither but vacated nor been vacad, was the anonymous but official word from washington. with a mexican sndf i chn. 'swe abtrd vi llemi wthior a non-peace. you forget about, you know, u whoudiutl t'ei. anyway, this tiny forgotten strip of land that held the airbase in shamsi, it turned ut it did not actually belogto st tohheni sige v

at0eareleri ocan a rihi between the two countries. baluchistan, aside from being full of spectacular garden of the natural wonders and this is most be among the most o the pl o, ase t fewn rudste bud b iig em among hunters from the united arab emirates and saudi arabia. falconry of course is the port ofbknt r prreey co. rdyltyrefrankly really pleased to have this special foothold n baluchistan and right where they built themselves a sizablelanding strip so they coul get easy so-a re er wo e, sstl et e mahage t a chieftain in baluchistan told prove for "the new yorker" named mary anne weaver back

rather time that the. roddy's llha smsrs. fa ie esrd antehudas , oe nd i ei i clever we are a bird with a number of tricks. among these tricks, this is my sile fr rt oe , ryss coues iltoin kja dark green slime violently from it spent. do you know what the event is on a bird, right? aur] etareeim nafr tstis rco t tti reoreet it can temporarily blind the falcon, or glue the falcons that is together making it unable to y. aur]

bo ndo htoye [laughter] the beli also persisted that the meat of the houbara bustard was anaphrodisiac. t hardto seewhyth uta thrd vext he coariico dee difficulty for the sportsman as well. the fall of the shot in 1979 made bustard hunting problem at the sunn arb, ben canwri ann. alstmra stioo o aer nodspak for the last 20 years or so, sheiks and saudi princes and the more general run of mbitious arab dignitaries had jockeyed tes lot nasoolao rtnthipout beedn ematesnd allotment that was once held by the saudis, the saudis wthheld

oil supplies rom paktan, and reatfor ood relief in shu vyyawt cog ev scioop p nt cities, hundreds of service, satellite dishes for better communicate and come an hunting vehicle strict that with sophisticated laptops, infred spotts a brdki da aur] e tong ucin fee. alheqide eson that likely cribbed their style in the bustard hunting departmentn the weeks whny wd itn,11 atc20 age ihosnt astprenmra et acasesai. as a base to supply us. troops fighting the taliban just across thborder in afghanistan. and also maybe for a few special in0 rshtlo sedoatns. coctperngat

alacdrones out of shamsi, the remote top secret base remained off limits to pakistan's own air force. so when the ble it hf, tm i heco an ut.vedy the united states could make a claim that the cia was not cating shamsi, and pakitan could still yc o co y t e ej ecoundorndi s sltesto baluchistan is not legally speaking pakistan controlled territory after all. we gave it to the iraqis for bustard hunting, so sorry but there's nothing we can do to stop thspof aca bu dmnthg [lte]sbl ge un aemest on record saying they had only built the airstrip. m. roddy sheiks d others use it for the said recreational purposes.

recioia co'tthir wa errd le by united arab emirates. and so we still let her drone based in shamsi, a no skittish ally had ttakehe blamef ngde otou. ppe] >> so that's little it of how the ok gs. noe e atke ataot s i k he et i not an expert on the military. i'm not an expert on war. my geek iscs 'stie ur a vindt ean ad, watitlkbo eeio.

and this book is a book about politics. it is about the politics of going to war ad the politi of not going to wa, an the vim le tlfrt rtmaesr he i not end up in a mess like that again. that congresspaed a wa presenn'e hich reasseed e coss ain se asab war.he congress is the body tat gets to decide. congress aside from he war powers act also afteve got ontsie,y anee ipla muscular attitude toward matters of national security. gerald ford wanted to essential reengage with vietnam after wead left i a way thataye

ng bveld a ar n awraan. cossppe frm g asst odng he thought it was the right thing to do for the country and members of congress said no. and when he and congress had a fotehelconrrious ofrti espiibu wsooelm eyld t opionsross. they would withhold dollars. the powers of the presideny i think were confronted even if n cur audomot chag thasimwe oes educ mai k mo teinhange that it now brought us that doesn't get as much attention in civilian life because we don't feel like it's our business really, was the abramsdce.ein ams o vim r as shy r eder be hede worked on something called the total force policy which ually gets

shorthanded as the abrams doctrine. the id wasthemlitarld ruedweldgo ditiivltht iflyho li up the guardand reserves. when lbj was trying to make a decision about escalating in vietnam, he knew that didn't want to make the argument to th touthyha mr adnngt ruen itt m o ste e. lbj would talk about not wanting to sendamerican boys thousands of miles around the world to do what asian boys ought to be doing forhemselves. ws ot idtm tiarntaet elke od i sn wel nd d. dyl cet. [laughter] we had a draft, constantly at that point in oucountry for decades. bless you. gh di dcahe a

anrerves.ed he thought there's always people are pretty well-connected, well-connected parts at least, are theua andreserve and i n'ta go cliu cotu a wr d ten ildtht kit quiet. and not very many, compared to modern conflicts, certainly not very many guardsmen and reservists ended up serving on ree in hto g hldn. e g operationally structe the army so that you can't have a big military ha gsmndersany kin iht e. d ia' s ivanfe ul dpty fa atwen anat e dnt e eevi lan military life that has so crippled the country. i think emotionally and

politically and lethargically. an hnthasimanvitnam itldep ontfo aett sacrifice that were have filled the ronald lot of that.sidency changed a he staed awarirnawi rearkng t selyt nd d yw jgry ki whe got caught and is it is industries was kind to save his presidency they inventd a donepriierradallyepand eti sta est e sonr inecntctofaw edcossf whh is bizarre. and that bizarre dea, which i really do think was simpl picked up on thesoae thecthsihe tili o our

in ogssn edck en [laughter] and that became,i think oneswradnar tu wal lt. di cheney, as white house chief of staff in the late as defense secretary, he came up with something that was essentially the cure to he raoce. eamkn he ow ft il gee e tr en wntw estuth thn oweef miry would be met as quietly as possible, with as little civilian upset as possible. goes mpwer needs would be met pfoof walid mb ati pan a ne project. it made it much easier for them, for example, when they need to get around their own political constraints to use force in the

balkans. an, th bisnto e tsanina thng bwn in its interest in constraining and overseeing and directing matters of war, even though the constitution does put them in charge of the. thrsides nd mapnaayt n weg dwn miryels me n more -- the national security advisor keeps growing and becoming more and more impenetrab. more and artsca pocs manre anr enhamengi g deeper. i feel both for the guy who's putting the magneticyellow ribb o ac hi u, d pn thikan duelw bo sh

-dti and impotent. i feel botof those things because i think they come from the same place. they come from a sense that we are a country that has not gone to war. thenthuitary to war, an i hi tep ri a t pefe that -- we barely notice when the iraq war ended. after eight and a half years, more than 4000 americans killed, iu ly cabthe icpee noe iskled tel ie,n i d, i d december. it was a ho-hum rug from the southern population. st. louis through upgraded but new york didn't. the archang atitnk 'speov ti t od ftme do ta pi eeh i ve arcorahes cause i find them very entertaini. [laughter] i think essentially we had a series of understandab decisis made by people looking isoinathi

tfrasit go to woigor let'llm s yo let's give them a tax cut and tell them it is read an hope they don't notice itwhen their grandkids hve to pay for. i edpu ag u hao errh wogr private companies because they not only would not have to answer for how much we're paying them, we don't have to answer for what the lines of the capital are wh they do something wrong. if they di or get hurt and dyl kw. fg mt naal ecu,b abth at i d ket age a war in, i don't know, say pakistan. i don't want to get around the political constraints that are between me a they were in kist soiwwo cran o nswewh daot ontth alsbti hink it happened

over a relatively sht but of time go and they think was all of about trying to get around thesannoying constraints, keeping usrom aging e waa .eitsn ar f st things we inherited from the founding fathers. those annoying constraints are there r a reason to the constitution is structured cossch o ht t elawu bbao35 usf ngabt shiha pos toloud and take a lg time, viet dinh, and they will engage us all. that was the point. if they wanted ito be easy it wod've given warmaking power toteei.eyu tim and r erou meofon more. i think we have cut away from the morning e got from her constitution to make us not too warle a ant.t e s af

un a'm aiis ikow htia ao ecr ifasa y of life and a way of thinking about these things. it's not my point of view. i believe sometimes wars are necessary. i want us to have an exceent asbeeibyct do eieh acent th bpi aeat a [applaus ituruths aratme focus, makes the feather stick together so ey crashed it and it turns out if you live nuclear weapons sitting around for too long, i rtg, u d njd wane tto oth d i'm grateful that you're here and would consider reading

it, because i would love for us to the big national fight about this stuff. thyoeroreill bfixe t. ppe] >> no, no. you can stand there. thank you soh wen'he tso'r t w w sin t bh --. time for a few questions, and as i said previously we're going totart up in the balcony. and i already see someone [iib ayueadyo go >> so i actually ihave a questi abo the parade for the vets in st. louis. nerkadv ose

d ounk hre any legitimate justification for not having that parade until all the veterans, and? iy kta heaew giteesheb doththi cl tnwop ht ayouttak end of the iraq war in a way that would let civilians say thank you to veterans, welcome them home and to acknowdg thetn n ppe] sstab d rneois it, listen, the iraq and afghanistan wars are separate political indeed, but the same people have been deedht i boh of thse a. ghta d o om oef hoheit ey a t he rothca tually home. and i absolutely, i have a lot

respect for that viewpoint, and a lo of people and who care abt is iss as much i tlk tofir n ghtate wayvee n h places, i've been deployed in both places but if i were in afghanistan right now knowing that there's been a parade at home marking the end th ion kthiisat issue where you're wrong if you're one side or if you're right if you're on the other. i would love to state. thbe t r r's weird, uprt trvethyth trt in. the heaof the city council in new york still wans to do for iraq and afghanistan veterans of thntrab etelort the d. rdnte pehis thyu.nn ti

>>haa qio t nd balcony. >> thione? >> yes. [laughter] >> rachel, i've read and thghnj y b on tres ou odeiofssor th citizen soldier out of it o when you don't discuss is the fact that a significant portion of the civilian soldiersn the, ki tirdi, thesdi. hssret shit out of the army. and ever since that incident, they have eliminated the civilian soldier. it turned themselves into a hao t ofrvry, hy ai d ocnt thaa bo n monn ur thth htis it's implicit when you talk to the military right nowaoii

k e n igmio ivnst ett pe hsao bu s i up, but i think people wanted to talk about this, they talk of how we need to brig back the draft so that people are more onee gaevods ie showesgo us rther than that because the military says absolutely not. military is absolutely interest in ending address. trngirntabant t b in vienthplo t t ee invenhase ma hihahe civilian soldier idea is broader than just the draft, broader than just the description but it is the idea that we are t a untamitsasi fas e, and we sort of

decided something dierent than what we ended up with. citizen soldier idea is that we peblunthsaceaeeot pue oio anen o tnr haseerue for very long time but it is a very, very good question. >> down here, please. s ofe ia i . r khtdt 'er n d f gh >>nko. >> i know spent do you agree at bustard part was the best part? >> greenslade and as we grew up 30 miles from the fungus riddled wings of the airr ae s sk asw awtck teine tstg ouekyutl lot abou the executive branch, you talk a lot aut the legislative branch, and there's not a lot about the judiciary. and over the past wek, we've tnessed treote

ciindeinwhs whs tntio e teres ek tthecivs erstped his constitutional authority to declare war. and i'm wondering why you don't think there's been any role o ialyotoo es. itbee jciy frgs bcse juary look at the division of powers and the constitution as as we now this isn't us and we know it's not you, it's you guys. yoguysreupposeto use yourquower s nre t yoe ,nentw ok'sgo fis you, and its weird because it's not that long ago but members of congress sued in court, feral cour to sopgeore.h ominlf o >>s md xa. 'sao eo h bush feeling the weight of the were

he soldiers a day -- on his ous. , nupd e smesf ongress were yelling this at him, and actually decided to seek federa court injunction to stop the war. aneulfrhe ugiyda itrall utll tited. i could have a sensual just and made that the major peace in this book. but at the en of it he says, arihthhptg concluded that yo di sued i dg cannot stop them from doing anything. you as congress have the power to stop them. ofeshevmn lecan't betidze wsak,ino

o akatna ou mit vote. do your job. buatrt's a bucket of coe. tepct npei, eru w mean you could reincarnate jesus and elecpresident jesus, maybe that would work but aside from president jesus i don't expect th reiduld ker-wudgi r t eac had proved to be president of the actions of previous president. nobody gives way power. if you're president you think of hean o'ealies estne bheopwt nt eiort tru ng aa oetetsmth ne iyou believe that you are doing what is right and other people are stopping you. presidents don't get power away, like an aged rubberbanded only

stretches one direction. congress has to take that oe cossdothri h ow oetta gma seem like high in the sky but that's what i think needs to happen. thank you. [applaus irfl -el lls. spent i'm right here. can you hear me? personal, thank youfor coming out tonight but my question is more to do with the nature of yooou alt reraso m cliof m usts, w es oisr of -- and counterterrorism have to do with military functioning, whether that's a brief classification, whoe aet owio, eleuestn ve

rdan. in it basically, i think that there is reasonable wiggle room in terms of what we are set up asacuryte encode-c wetodsethi n stlal emri unilateral way wind speed is of the essenc i mean, the way the founders talko, retliva e othin ei auit as ary mmr idat think of constitutional prerogatives of warmaking. it's limited. very limited powers. ri obutasiottthatwarmaki gomethonav borders that they respect, i think that those two things have worked together to radically

expand the amount of military power we ih n feetgr ater r ple o f li, t uriy rk tghs a. d the cia is essentially functioning as another branch of e military. that they are one that has niit g, hy in tein ancaeey somebody who wants power to act in the nation's national security interest, want flex abilio atoayh rl ierieder d itu ai, co i othink that's america. i can understand why somebody wants the power, but we are not inclined to give anybody tht wawer, at east in a sutained thit ppesu o g evening.

>> don't be afraid. >> thank you so much for being here with us toight. myquesonift arn pe orfeon titho te at eripu amecan politicians, as to what are the lessons to be learnedfrom this war. and my question s ik ailerof cobo ei e afis rq reto e nation from our military action for that to happen? >> that is the big $64,000 thwh wai. owis ek ja tiutedi see all these things that you're implitly praising after vietnam, happened after the national a people that was, and neesomething that big agin

tasfomp, ons'ero t inn r ake ha tyo a. ani think it is arguable. i mean, to have not only the longest war in american history, yeon niaq ih ngt war in american issue and have a 1% of the population fighting those wars. and for them to be completely unfit for and for thouern la t cnu titstatsr e seto a ypt lhin apch unsustainable prices, just in terms o how we think of ourselves as a country. [applause] aibr r ves i k action to i think the reason

there were some he changes after vietnam if people were in e streets. onwbeewhppin e, ses happening in our name. we don't even notice when iraq ended. i don't foresee that kind f mass social mobute aoveuonc ernotiafilon feab teafniwar is completely disassociate from people's party position at this point. so that's pretty radical, almost ery controversial issue in icpotiyt e e ite,ti. no o' hava social movement pushing. but if anybod does bush on these issues i think you'll find i t in'sintng on an open or

achrianoe gswenk i la iseri big enough. the way that it is manifesting is with a national discussed rather than with a national protest movement. it's going to rmain tobe n. intlk a hto it hay >> hi. your show and information on your show, the stories you tell in the book are so we researched. d n urouow en tthcte ct >>ouog hours and cross-referencing. i mean, we get stuff wrong, and one of the things that iind erroron ftumite oleon icdo understand

it's like cause for a joint ripple of excitement whenever we do a correction on the air, but toret.ontr th rd, e n inerarinbis navy admiral. very sorry. i mean, mistakes happen but there are things that get scred up. acicryouavo i things like toee kwto rekiboor s reirlker uhv have somebody with fresh eyes checking your work and then somebody checking their work. you have to be willing to be wrong. you have to be willing to make ighe o' a r thths g, ci iu ac ur ao els t'asecnd obm, as they say. there's no mgic bullet. you just have to ork really hard to care about it. thank you spent go ahead. t ogtio u d.

haountyo tew wealot loat in order to win the war. and you just said that this was sort of a door to be pushed on. wa is orinthat hatod scioac d apvea reesi topenthe door of coersation, and what do you think are some steps we can take to bring the count back toward the e t'gousiondi itk ow er eaic ro ef vs right politics, and you know this, i can tell, it's implicit in the premise of your question covamt hc ily my idea is that on hoit'soingo ge there and the resource do. then have the republican party

which is kind of no tat awesome last ght iut [ler ppe] id' eaeulica on not that awesome. i mean the republican party is not that good and/or deciion. they are not good at what todo toheir not as good as what isey do as themocrat par t o, t, o' coen kaoke but i don't mean democrats go, republicans beter timing democrats good at running it with a party, republicans bad at threno icilpa bernibuten d causthers a concerted movement. so they justoke themselves onto the conservative movement and to do what they're told, and sometimes they have to lose elections in the short run because they are abdicating againstoton cova menot btrpca

orrmelrate. cathotirs generational change. and so because of that, that's why you get this phenomenon on the right that you don't get on le poi, o a thliosnse ng

hey ar contacin se bse cova mens ki andev- it strdred they do it over. so when you do that the democrats are like standing ove re crar snd te gs, mdoes cabonis? is an okay the majority leader is anti entitlement? that is democrats and republicans arevehe like dohat moshey a coming over here to the centrist. that means the center moved to the right which means there are republics who fall off the nstiovt.all ti

they don't care about short-term election. in 2012 they will lose all the midwest governorships they won 01eye unikey' inab wos that dynamic doesn't exist on the left. there is nobody pulling the democratic party to the left. wo prresses hd cr p tef >>eee questions. go aad. >> thank you for the worthat u ngrs itie vern fm your sw we realize we have a shadow army of private contractors o fht in

nneerur ag dial down the forces when before it becomes a point i in dblosthin nhe democratic primary, senator clinton and senator obama were very outspokenut the use of contracto for eydhewod al rasor t t taheve-- w inn terms of accountability in the world and causinproblems. they were doing bad things and y j f o had to answer forn a s a t tng tee huge number of contractors and in charge of

everything the number of coractors have not gotten discussed. what they say in washington tatore in d bco we r oalthcontracts. alisha short term we couldn't do anything tomorrow. e on wtebo itrs hm lot, to remind everybody that it hasn't been that long that we have had halliburton stealing a. as n b l weayomint and profiteering, the tsourcing of the basic logistics' of being at war, ings like y, dibaacg

at aelarnc ry thon agat all. if it could be created in 20 years it can be tten rid of too and go back to the way it ord in iiser it could be done and it takes will. there have been interesting across the aisle leadership on e rct iisi i pect her to be the highest on that in defense. on the balcony. >> good g. bn tc s nche008 ectalean. ontoalee

speak in person. >> thank you. >> my question relates to th u.s. involvement in the recent crisis in libya where the s. woing with l andheat lsble tuaar gafrowit w ininu.roopon ground. they see this involvement working with intergovernmental organizations and focusing on teiv lstar like afghanistan and iraq? ct.there is no rachel maddow atunk ck t friend, who writes for wired.com. i did an interview with him about the book and it is super harsh and complicated intview whh ha ixpte .

arpd tt eris ra mw or ho tarnd get out of war. i am not qualified to do that. i think tt isor ry n a or bstante nonpartisan way engaging what is essentially barack obama's way of waging war. he is hpy to wage secrewar er w i w ndll n he e f encomes to intervention that are not secret, that are overt he is of multilateralism pp iby was typified b i fa multilateralism and that was typified by what haened in libya. that is a form oamerican

erti acan wer,e spmon miryan ref bid. hee. g mil wthaag in a very different situation on syria is the reason they have ken e pression of serious so you are constrained byhe er eyoe beg n su tamde y o a caet aensentervene less. you have an international coalition everything looks legitimate. it is much more orge h. w. ats a'warn n' kif'muaed whr s rut it is a different approach than what mitt romney is offering. >> in the middle. in. >>i d tanu thyo. chad tou w a lot better off.

vni oyou tsalause] ddarorra >> secondly i have a quick comment and a question. >> could you keep it just to the question because we need to end a mie af i.o y i w al found that my family and all my friends became extremely hiwaoavsed in the outcome oth i want you to ease say something about the corrosive influence of money inur

ai prenamed ath this picture? thank you. [applause] dienabdo wel a venydrof iof arre bent oea s that some hundreds of those billions will be spent by many that we can trace to know where. frontpage the btn gle s e reice, aer stisbythat lot of these donations are listed as organizations. as corpora shelve. evhepelereor feecns r t meg t onn cofrs po a

corporate shell there is no way to trace it back to 8:00 p.m. and. i wonder if there is no way to trace it back to a country either. eerabandt erce eyldigurut ie w rib against rcspli e road would be the audubon. the coosive power of money is as old as politics itself bute haonrohy si ate ewh rai o 'rt a wengtperiod

mae er o pso could write a $1 million check to fund somebody's campaign. we are amad that barac obama needs to raise $1 lln. a tacha evrors yars ross perot or somebody to be competitive, why not find one of mewr $lls biioir k. bviuepa one billionaire's interest. we always worry about money in polics but never like this. hd nmrt t i usheor mtly came from the supreme court

decisions and you don't appeal supreme court decisions. what we are talking aboutn nstiheri-a ths rll undertaking. so i think we are a long way off from fixing it. as they continue to strike down state efforts regulate the e trr setng na m wto thinatrihe most in politics. [applause] o bef questnsing questions. ou a qu ad. rn chaed i concept of what constitutes a threat? further back in your book than feelge oel war onteism.e aisio

of r. qstion is to what extent s the locus of a sustained military threat actually further enable the military itself? be wa terror. we went from the war on a tactic to a war on bad feeling. canouetnyore is. by that -- is the vaguenessf what we were having a war on should have been a sign that there was something wrongnd opreakutgn tre shi veepen hel sety lahees a h weon think of ourselves that way. the war on terror seems

deliberately vague to encompass all sorts of things ttou en do n e arnturum can suck. when you don't have to engage a rigorous debate that if you t w,r gunts nte you will not w i write about this, you can identify anything as being n tias of this work monitor tha rnna pe i kheasi caciloha iha we are waging war on, when there is no price ta the post's 9/11 ery leal f keisin around a

goldfish bowl. castle,ook, ctl ur teubbee s et yo te w the debate in congress because the debate doe't happen in congress. when you do not have to justify the funding because none knows gu ce e ucning nythhy or. gatir un wh cctnorism and say that it does. when you don't have to have a good date you don't neeto have aoodmest qstio lae] ster of mine. when you were at lincoln, at the end of gold street. my shop for thehole time you

re th a neou enn'nowh ie did you like me? you used to go in the tavern at lunch time? >> yes. >> thank you veryuc dmedrke thank you so much. thank you. [cheers and applause] >> is there a nonfiction offer bee ftud oo ses eai a twitter.com/booktv. >> now on booktv arthur herman recount president roosevelt' gn wamsed al y erbehe.swar prtiffdu w

wa. this is a little or an hour. e onesh ] ias h foundation or organization within a e r i, entity within a liesh bks smeic rms au oe batthbj of today's discussion, "freedom's forge" i one of. the 2012 election is in my oue inr nd 1932 gafralideno roelt eli the federal government as one of th preeminent directors if not the preeminent director of american economicife orhulwe

ace tini irofe rp rss d the great men and women who fuel the nation's economy and whose ideas and innovations change our lives ost'ot in his o signature domestic accomplishment, the new deal, helped or hurt. whether it pro the great depression or helped to bring us out of it evidouakin tt de ts unim idy w i rearmament and continued purchase of the vehicles and to fight the nazis andheapanese imy aca o cen. ofe eno ondoseon

collective. a focus on the government. a focus on rationing, shared sacrifice. rosy the river. gornme progand. pr. dao e nt oma shov strgly in embracing that legacy is that this is a time when the government finally got the private sector out of the way. theyoto r mn and tt lecyoem is wav arthur herman's book "freedom's forge" shows that none of that common wisdom is true. that ultimately what ved america and saved the rld was noe verin stnd tht b itt dhe iefo previous decades that came out to save ourselves and save the world. without further ado lete noted is a aoo hermanhos

s lzer prize finalist. we can only hop "freedom's forge" brings so much critical andmeiaatntn. h are all of you? thanks for coming out. the weather has been less tha yceanyhemam gto li mhe to my audiences. i also want to thank our hosts, r thheott e stitte e b tk a isk ender for all of the help and support

from colleagues and others w have been so itrumental in e s th aoned nsouat rl lue of intellectual collaboration and cooperation is all about. just as discovered i many itm rao nbo mp it is also about cooperation and it is in many ways a cooperative de.ture and is intellectual i wtogis his a story that usually is told backwards. if you go to the textbooks, go to the movies the digital ce tohescsion y sn lura soinhe tki

icar pcti world war ii. seems like this. 2eiui29inil tabil t bowling facility in wichita, kansas. the story my introduce sir henry olsen told you of collective sos mencomyernment directing the d ev ithroce a material of the like the world had ner seen before. 70% of all the war equipment

cannot of american -- the usual outas in factories like wichita's b29 plant but in the spring of 1940.wao yon ce rling,ictet roosevt. as he gets news sitting in the oval office that new kind of wae, mecnid rf o bssirow is sweeping across western europe and overwhelming the democracies of europe, france, and threatening to do the sa bin,rali r izit t if

anal a btain falls or remains isolated, war is coming to the united states. maybe not in a year. ur and a halfto two years aldstn hee t fa titonch kes uritht wn experimental vehicle tried out by the u.s. army in the mid 30s later dropped but give you andea about wha t ran taecol ost iz0fn he was sitting at his desk and realize the united states had the eighenth largest army in l h br t.

ngas btear. asate ee uted states navy which is built around world war i era pctpoac ts with no reea e five ms soic it wre,0 a 6,000 warplanes. modern warplanes. he suddenly realized he has to get the country readyor war. bldor t uny y cey in aruoi tdot?

where do you start? the navy andar departments have no clue. they went through the ocess of world r i wld hbeasrye er denof rr i time for our soldis fighting overseas. he faces a congress whic is deeply med in ilati w ndmotorminy d i tharo d wa it is not going to come for any massive military buildup. how are you gng to dl th stiwhdo ttons tmen ity al ghe.s.comy after a decade of depression geared up for this production? the place that you tu?

amanbu ost d rselt spis businemen, campaign two presidential election against business blaming them for the depression and the suss aisteeprss bu ho ch .hwa e e ttu githrdepartment's national mobilization plan to get the econo geared up for war across the country coming t 18 howhe eur she aice of his wall street fund-raiser berna baroque he callss llknn. shig wou terndrtk nx spy with the rigging gained, worked his way

up, got a job with company nrd' rht h m a rts for ford, up mo td ll presidt of general motors. knudsen was a motor city legend. rd pcthe even mehan henr ni ossodonrnha io eans by which the automobile industry had become the largest employer in the country and also becoe thst iusof anti oducon he calls william knudsen and says i need help. he faced aire situation. no one else knows what to d roel pcko ng? theconomyp an

llknn alay r to do this you have no authority whatsoever. there's no statutory authority for what will ta place he. ishow perofino si cct yavne e itrs connected and supported at the same time. so this becomes william knudsen's job offer iay o llses rnss dric knn aepli evis doct. they have spared and then ask opposite ends of thpolitical camp for morris and a decade but when he gets that ll the first ing he does is idoferor ioingo t country up and running for warti

production. and he also realizes t obaclethate fes i t oc rdesausead ofeson theryansi me ial wnc hin t t f ellle onut gnvd n wa wt this is just going to be an attempt to expand and grow the new deal. don't do anything along the lines. you areakin he st seayo s ss

t sres.hoe everything i have i 02 america. my president calls i am going to er. e les into f helwusesen w tewas a roosevelt hates them or opposition from isolationist congress but the labor unions. in wking on this book as i exn, of e fhearti pdun reanf the unions. they feared the shift to wartime production from civilian production would serious rm u mrsnsha thema thuge anne d ansi the efforts to wartime production. a degree that lasts notust in

the prewar piod ofoe or awaan islengs e hi the labor unions maintained constant pattern of resistance and strikes and every effort to get the wartime economy aredp straite 6 kenwsl all. tnd he calculates probably 25% production w lost as a result of union resistance to changes t wkp mbipt ed oon . all the same knudsen still believes that he can do jobs that roosevelt put in front of hi knnndnt a e em aask

d give them something you need to produce, that they will deliver under those conditions. business can go aro a nu offtindsf tshene o th arin engineers love a challenge. the idea of not only producing new kinds of fabulous weapons but designing weapons that had ner civfor ulvemes al eye wng s t es began. so he tells roosevelt if you give me 18 month 18ontho ndnt to lle moorte ider toroli

thour damed possible. he says to roosevelt if war comes this is going to be a war of mass producon. wilbey, ssy itha e oron wines u give me 18 months and we will deliver the tools of victory that will make it possible to win thisar cont t psi- i whnuen es step-by-step he mobilizes first calling up his colleagues in the automobile industry and who he s ubntg. r r tmakelf rdy foor itself ready

for -- to defend this country. i need your help and they say you have got it. we will follow you erer you wao anan ads.o d bsere wo f contracts. knudsen says to roosevelt if you make certain small changes, ortichest ta tax iponhath it yrs. arharo to ve companies will have an incentive to invest in converting factories for wartime producti. tabet to explain what amortization is. gives you an idea the distance betwn washington and busins t whoe -- knudsen

was right. by the time bombs fall on pearl rbor american wartime pruction is already rebyrlharbor.i when war comes the process is going to gear up even fasr but w rious sucreeds i d't dorom doitasngtotrying to give quarters, the demand and so on with more productions are, someone who wizard of oz to push all the

buttons -- this happens from the bottom up. you don't shut down civilian d eg tcouseye t mttr pr syoll able to have a process in whh the conversion to wartime prtitr, nsta ans llplthhey meen wa m s t ra going to go to most productive and innovative of the-they make that conversion underway to carry out. not just in terms of switching civiln vecles to oks as auc

bee ishm civilian to military truck different specifications and a whole range of capabilities like drivovernd lnst liru muf wowao ded ta theit ner h of this. tanks go to the locomotive company. bigeavy industrial transportation compaes. cay nd nker s c y mak a if t someplace where i can see 1 and drive around in one i think we will be able to do that andthat ishat e slansebe r.so aafengines. retooling to provide the

aircraft engines for companies like boeing andockheed and rp macrs a t llanlveshet mp b willow run outside detroit and wherefore takes on which seemed like the iossible task of building liberatorla hu cexne a ge b i gm itf,teirtlant wh takes plans pvided by or hw.in tt makes the wdat was shot down in, t avenger made by general motors as were thousands of others t.

odve iatst well.ia cny these aviation companies, there is no defense industry. these are commercial companies that do militaryrders and hogera fs buiin oman shift to military aircraft becomes simply a process of retooling and redesigning to meethe ndd gi vo ineng foard tuin them to say can you design a boer that will do this? can you design a fighter that will do that? i discoved wking okryglla edteewnec d e one was the product of prewardesign. boeing and even the 29 and the

1 mta w a in o beur e. theeer t oers and knudsen gets tm started with that process. end result thousands oplanes not just for the united states but our allies as e t m wh isrk s ogill to the brits. they came over to north american iation and saidanouak 40tiwahawkshi we he hwlas i i desi ate p f that. give me 100 days. he did. he designed, staying which was a t whheri gplane ycgin a ls

superplane. e st fighter of the second world war. those lls-royceerlienne ursqredsppac pre o a the british spitfire but then for the key 51 mustang. alanesrewarxc mela io t bagework. the only reason i am using images is to have an exce to show you this one. this is durher. th fledar yan tpre inleing to land on his carrier. one of his bk men getting out of theay as i comes.

iahograpro ey p tbeus that pla -- no one got killed. the plane didn't crash. it just powered out and went back againnd landed saly. tis oth phat ehawa designed -- put into production lesson two years and the one that comes ome en b medornes t pssthher main character in the book, henry kaiser. he was involved in road nsti def er. hend lleaes

like 7 -- stephen bechtel and harry morris,orris and knudsen --haisifreknse l esnsctfi d omnytond webster. tennessee eastman became involved in wartime construction. all these, underanng lascenrihi l or prepa taaciels to build ships. kaiser's liberty ships are the classic example at the tim it took to build constantly shrank down to fernd d l1heyauibtyhievivda gotobolwh comes out to chris and one of the liberty ships at the portland yard, kair's yard an sas c be

un aai io so whhekm saywait a minute, there will be another one ia few minutes. not jt uig gnmas essentials for aircraft manufacturing, experimental metal which kaiser became heavi iolved in. eenuur detelahe ss out in california at fontana, california. they become involved in t process and bome part ofha nyg,ldg ern t dlin

process. also the chemical companies. d ntofheculaparticularow otri aca coieuld convd in wlef prodon efforts in order to make this wartime productiodeveloent hee ou one t itaonut a magnesium. it was herbert dow of dow chemical who discovered this magnium coming off as a a byuc ccaoces iftiiv nihi mal vy ae same time and he said to himself before world war i someone will figure out a way to make something out of this maalthtuon i t hheyill

kpg t sckle and the formula becomes the basis for american magnesium industry being able to sup li wght ptsmecan as. wowa w tg of the plastics industry here and i found a wonderfulrticle in american machistaz942 ngthad a s t rsou c g the kind of copper and steel components you used to need to ys asdyes for production and i .yxpvend vy ght w cos in with another surprising way as well as i discovered it and tha was the

problem of shipping th wme maalose ntnd ac tac at . s h g t and wrapped and sealed so it is not going to corrode in these big leaking liberty ships do com uph san ald ta y oor shng cpany supplies coming in ohio. being prepared for shipment ovse. eeistu w salesman showed up llanaren v nginevytngou can use to wrap up and make --sara andt s yl it sir ran aran in.

--saran and it is something you can read anything in. you can read an entire tank a it is a stplf e w umndy prup c't dt because when the man had been projectrgaled ra eim ier rnse biclyrom a set of theoretical calculations an experiments into real industrial producone company they rno ll i du. rd substances. they are used to construction under very tight schedules. npder tsd upt hem touild

dualce t ner existed before and oak rge and tennessee and enormous shonretois out ind, atile dropped on nagasaki. this is the process bill newton sets in moon ugeop onton ugeh oe ic enond inryt nd with it. by the time of pearl harbor it is a wartime production that has gone froupstanding starc oag t of zi tnd19hehe

ef rllgeolng, really gets started with full conversion of the automobile industryver to warti prodon ud atess weomtndohexi of3 merican economy is producing more more material than germany, the soviet union grt britain cbi rehamussi' ewole. we produce enough steel and raw materials to enable british -- we are the numbe one m vio behendsnd aircraft in this process. too t8000eeg.

wala ei-e hed warships w were producing. five aircraft carriers a month ,0tas.orld war. three million trucks. studebaker alone supplies to the remy ahekgd t etis' emth nd tht lealndrm to go across eastern europe to theates of . uc- n s cnes in g before.

remington typewriter, national postageeter, the jukebox company based out oic whpredneun contract from winchester and over forty-oneilli rnd u dendpon bng fiviy war based d laueio i ductio end,nd the reasons why this took place, it becomes clear why y cono treproduciblfe and

wahoduiomule usortiro shatft to civilian production why that ki of boost, that pructive boost would be possible.u e li ainhe moths $3il of world war ii wartime production is $3 trillion. that is a big stimulus check but that is if you thinkn termsf stus en a onet slo otusmo sy 40 in to the economy or given t in large portions in certain corporations. this is money that is being used b gerent nedeatan goi t moroivd va srs t economy in the process. those are the companies that are

beg mobilized and put to work. hee automolendustry an thco thi tken nd hihereio of olew i oer to take care of the jobs that are necessary for wartime production. not just the w w ined imacotriameran soing like 1 million move from the south to industrial centers to work at cysr aalo n t ell the work force which is incredibly mobile. people were free to go where they needed to go to make this cseafge eiomo go fd rkn

im ftori b the conditions and better pay, drawn by t opportunity of this kind ofk irg lif . le gere jo where productivity is based. like the soviet union a britain no one tells american workers werto ne- shgt wed e e is true forusiness. a voluntary system washington created. nobody told anybody what to think. operawedhe. ifurnsprtio ankeonion tohe war effort and make money while you are doing it. a wonderl book came out in

1942 called your business goes to war putogn er terch stef i odinppx thoke s h es ybune makes these kinds of things these are the wartime productions you could shift to if mg the ltle yakazdeor gi aafgis. if you make lawnmowers you could go over and shito manufacture ple lse shrapnel to use for hh umanmahe clne transition to helmet liners. fascinating see what was put out as ideas. things e industry had done and changeshemade anu dosoo. ctma tvent

this direction. so the wartime production miracle turns out to be a production mirac that springs atinot oimeec in'sisth w hato be won to take on any means necessary in order to ic it could address the challenge and overcome but in the end that is really the conclusion i had to aw working thik and hp pe . do "dofo. rees rot the arsenal of democracy lliam knudsen felt and the term that he claimed that roosevelt stole, december of

heu hat ose and take away the restriction and the constraints upo it it can accomplish anything. >>y 'tlihere oe teern,

t ght them as e guys who risks their lives on the battlefield. they were part of the greatest generation awell. shngat94 tumrttoree acaki ire -redndie tnre nr americans killed and injured in that the ye atndre talking 1942. dw a tt o e thuteryac of 20-to-1. it's dpairnlings mark workmanning in these shipyard. ngers wo doi thek mo, knn'ly mp or executives for gm died # on the job during world war ii. they paid a price for the war thkiir atili

r g et,here war effort here, and the people thatou, i think you'll meet in this book, the people that it rtf wngtdo i lyo i i w tndo i ine uio anu m [applause] >>e,hyot >> ofriends. ono trac ines economic is, you

know, economists are lking at the ineffiency of wage and price. asou tked #ouan ine l emash b cr ian a hoch the attempt to control prices and wages go slow down this maive effort? >> that's a g ti lhewa y h cawhou gis wagtidryol ug on by imposing its own will on economic transactions, and that was the issue about raw material anage ace thwh an seedik geaheemre in wld war i at the sudden on rush of demand for raw materials in war production sent pricesyrketi. ther drm, uinio

exenweetneo st i the process, and also to allocate materials as well. what didn't occur to th, but wh was hapni under tr s idtton t ha a natls aie, cca ri s,pelum numb, magnesium and others was not the allocati of resources shge youmaalfth b rod m aluminum was a great example. reaching critical factors, and they wonder why weave all e eatsttswh res,lc and oer companies coming online and producing and speeding up the

process as one war production wevemi cngofal put in19 rs. wiitte. critical to the war industries. ration the supplies we got. the real solution was the techlo men cnge ecit fce beth si pl how you go to war without rubber? youeed it for trucks and tires. pl iarof ff 'lnvtio on, don't make new tires. of course, for cars, we'll nvert it here. it p weyiles we nwhere near pi rrsunhd

itusoto t ockpilr war. what was the solution? synthetic rubber. coie udtad ogher he rus w esset here for production. they create an entire new industry out of wartime necessity by getting companies yei , d hn the pss phcandan, o emibuso o how amican business works here, all of those warti rationing colre pbl mplynnsaanet moopveha aty mbhet, onof sr,ff, shoes.

tane i ventic benninnd t new deal had an at tag nighs tick view and busstax wiarll o ot rouisnud vent mansd odonore fecte? >> amateurization is one. one economic historian i know chngn chethanges, and those elo ti producti in wartime period. one of the other big changes was they called off the antirust . rnenhn,

anti-tst crusader had people on his department steps. in those days, it was a szable receesti of justice dpartment -t vti yndiee, am tilndy, lik the aluminum industry. at the same time, they are ng g roup caha cnieah thihn tts w edhe cooperation in wartime production. the dogs get called off on anti-trust. that'snother crucial change that takes plac tre wotofuy iltoro esf pism er wnxc ita rexe,t s imposed. there was income tax raises acro the board, and therewas also re-negotiation law tat congress passed in3 t

lo gnm-- demeoetier contcts where they felt the charges in terms of cost was exorbitant. that happened, andne of the reasons waseon maalormpanth roioesf, t onfo companies, aircraft companies in particular to get around an excess profits tax and that schge i y luil regteo nt, ce nus , opr g , t it not going to be taxed at the excess profit kind of a level. small businesses, there was a big battle er smallsies ca rbon b ers f ng talhebi gm ford, general electric, and

the little guy gets nothing. there was a small business upfense contraccommte s wagto t.n onou enga big companies as contractors, there's plenty for everybody down the subcontracting network to g ery,n g plnt apn prs, t, ur i acact happened i'mecocisan gnsi masteyror especiallybout the prewar build up of production. coctatat fondering is, these

repeorerid cm? reungup t oce o materi in anticipation of warme contracts, or were contracts being let out early,and if so, >>nts pce rtspic ri kela f, they didn't exist yet. companies didn't know how to make them. the initial contract thenwould itifntm n an advance. awd th wthne ncloou ed ur pt,o reol, to take on theinds of expenses that would go with conversion to rtime process, but most of the moneywaotormi inng tut sciof at w done thh loans, loans througheconstruction

finance corporations still left whoned i ee deession yars anrpiondf in, hepoth went t gouan defor, you know, 1200 fighters here. you took that letter to the bank, and theank then, even before you had a corara ,tvetet wne a hha eyd i wed abtellaknd goes out, and let's do it, build the plant, get it set up ready to go. the army wassuspicious about ree tweti but then begn trtole, t, cuntfis deing th the aircraft dustry began to take on what they called the rule of 3. have you heard about the rule of 3? antior wody was is if you pced

le sndhe fea der,0 onc the conversion was done; right? at the end of the second year, that number grew by a factor of 7. we're tking at1 mbatt hendheir y on ls odon and expansion of it was raw materials and labor. labor was always a problem. was not ju in terms of sort ofun rtato im nvoneyhtse alec ybski somewhere else, you know? this became a constant problem. where do you put factories? where do you expand places? erutiab dr p labor which, you know, you need and can be trained to do the kis of work

that can be done. that'sno otu, e rd mit nuiscsemed places like california shipyards. it's huge. for african-americans, all of this is made possible this you kn,e'tk bus liar w yok tu ohe h u t d >> i'm barry fr george waington university. i'm interested in roosevelt. >>eah. rve s t es veucfut' b dtlu attitude towards the business community? >> th's a really good question. i have to say that in the gsh is boo-- theatde ost'ti a t urin thal e nded

nd idi his own wife, which you need a war production czar, produce overnight wartime production, and theacrifice should fall on theea ne ost 't poulwadunar not even bill knudsen had that power, and later on, people have nere hinofified position, they aler thanon i nd ,rmis o shwn this fountain head of production that took on a life of its own? i think in many ways, historians ong pnav prf erswaprti rt didn't want to give up his own power as a pern to had thoryo e frief, and if they

orllpl wak whheomt. ca in, w handest oou i think, maybe, hewas also -- now, i also think to a degree he was kind of alizg the erseogo n hpl w r oasw ctnd control the economy in peacetime let alone gearing up for wartime. he was going to try this and see what happens. aarodonoreh h ti et kth requireedommands issued from washington probably was not going to be worth much of an effort afterll. dinatde-u no a f, s o

n es 1944 having seen the transformatn of free enterprise and business, the next step was now's thehance to get t w fhe a nethro,nd thwa pction machine into a civilian collective economy in the process. of course, truman carrie out aspects of that as wellntil puangrn46 s o >> roger pilon with the cato institute. i want to pick aco pael trt. th ypees, ntd h the depression policies didn't get us out of the depressionbut the war otection did. towards th end, yai

ththca m ten. sah grn w ng gshagome needed. one could think today about government buying things that government needs. aruggngautbu krugman might be right? [laughter] >> you know the story of the column was suggested faceou bbeylf cesle ratf e d pcten clg oie ors har mobilize and a new democracy appears out of nowhere. subsidize and paid fory more spngin ci i' n esi . thou, h wa, to subtly correct, and that is

that it's not that world war ii pructi got this country out of thedesi d't aiinola meumt,t, s, iroedhe pron rty eofthe deprivation of the consumer economy whic had, you know, fewer shoes,ewer um s,agch, ac ao oe. f uot po, i interesting, the production standpoint, the rate of increase,he industrial miracle of world war iindery ofreto t pctof t'ou h t reg? 20suce productive in that sense and increase that goes with it over the course of the decade, over the cose of the decade compared to it. nus, tfeat it in terms

allt as, hae starfr 1940-1945. what you really see, however, is that what world r ii production department end the itre bes mng gs agin and expanding plant facilities and training a work force and reopening warehouses in der to ocvey aat tudeseerar whrinven comes back. all ofhat demand, all the business savings built up in the war years, nothing topend it . thtoent an s opowmeain t exy ioths an th go from making washing machines to machine guns,

stedrtii iin d kw adjust an shift and retool in the production. it's a tremendous boost up leashing potential for business. thenme t at cal whsuco a fr n g ap from that point on. wog octano ig gngld i te temeal co t them. you highlight the contributions that the factory workers made to the overl war effort, but this happened 70ears ago. as you w your bk,at urwevaleo y dfysewos d

a erf websites. there's a website -- operates out ofch, lifo eipsst ri ips t there. aot is or history, especially of women, there's a lot of fascination and interest in women workers. stories are up thoie rof th war effort, published their stories, don wait to tell about the workers who came in, what we did, and what we accomplished. resoces etremenus e ie idi lltout opl rk avenehhee found on the river website, a letter from a woman working in the rimond shipyards, a

teenager, madma o seg pfi d ts i a lr, irk d the bowels of the liberty ships, and she says, i like to think i'm building this ship that will on mh >> author, you mentioned sornacve north more than in th 75 years. did theirmme [iibis -

what did business leaders a auto compa guys and steel tokckos he ets >>t ertein bo bcait sin knudsen was in favor of bringing african-americans in, but he thought the fair practices was the wrong way to go. he said you g faory by guano t w owmmp ot. u insty-, contract-by-contract process, not blanket changes in the rules who can be hired # and who not. by and large, the role of segregn inhe wrke nostnrydu, coy an e g p, xa,t sagutliwa mptely integrated. it was a shock to african-american workers coming in from the southti down

wi wrkmpes . etilteat er p ceting te at the end of the war, 70% of the employees on his payroll were men. plerru a ry heounon s, viy,otforce thwet oci tensions as with the detroit case. it's very interesting that the one part, the one segment of the american population whoere not otecd unrhe ir acsctoce desut woein s heri w, , and employment war place, but who benefited the most were the women. exactly, veryntti. t yerchor a ryerngreat [aus

>> what are you reading this summer in booktv wants to know. >> this summer i want to rea thbook "otskta " ber dr. inlow skejo ehanay he managings the tea party freshmen in the conference. bohahohozytet i read a t colling the way the house is running even though they are freshmen in charge. there's a line that i have right here. palyaee,ws

nfcehnto pe yonin a think the tough congress has been so polarizing and so up wobeat fmthat bookli t intiac re sof das at all g be tcesas we watch nothing happen. another book i like to read on a totally different note is called "love of a mixedape t or a -t'rn abhohe f lh someone who also fell in love with him, a very unlikely pair, and from what i understand she dies an'sasd, b mita w shi dfoeandea years to all my exes now, but he

basically writes a book that is essentially a mixed tapeo, hoca hov r 'sne unikedpe f r love songs and it i can't wait to read that one. that's what i'm hong to read th er bo.odiis v bernice king, who is edith >> ud]bagley. s,y mr. she and my mother grew up in rural county alabama together, obviously, and she laterec dofr. hefodheam

h iamat ivtynnan so she's a very lively woman, an unfortately passed last year in j bef cet-- alft cethi lindle heretta scott king," and the author is your aunt? >> yes. >> when did she write the book? >> it was apn-- urthegimy wrhery hamethfmyarents were constantly being threatened. my mother didn't kw it, lived day--day, and she was pe tnhe t wedsryule th wea , ayle t men and was very much an activist before she met martin king, and

so she encouraged that angle as sts omn veollhe cawedo hut montd 6, e it, 68, april 4th, she put the script in the mailbox, and got the news that evening that myatas asid. caotatolpean thutth ter arrangements, and then the children for the first couple of years, and helping my mother with the establisent of the king center. yow, e w e, oeor ce tt isth9, and it is no longer in print. in 2004, because mother had wrote itn 6 ew a coteitan'

goadometh manuscript in 2004? of course, i needed again to do some more rk because from 664 tpp. suewnt e ilnd sul fcus, my mother passed, and 16 months later, my sister passed. it delayed it somewhat, but stmpnghloserto20 e rtarood i shsrihae rkg on it, and she said people need to know more. martin didn't make clar, but th sr sgil s,onmihas lyrod iai t edio prepared us as women to be leaders, the fact your mom was

anivis ilv tne thee owut . yoowge i published? that's how the journey began. >> you mother, how active was she? when did she beginctivism? she wasornario ama ralifud orthofea rsinve,nd young, abnathy, and my father had wives fromarion, aabama. abty' maring different men, but that brought it all together. so growing up there in rural alama withthhoa a epurly o unherd

of, hauled lumber, opened a saw mill that buedded down by a deinn tap teed h stannt to move forth ahead with courage really infliensed her, and then she solyac lrs iroduce lof chen me more socially minded, to think about the world that they lived in, and that began that earlyctivism in her,ea ire w h 'spue? wa dnheti s tolln yowri ohio. she became involved in the acp, progressive political party, and the peace movement importantly. montl anfold inea

wan vam t heub ie ur mother is behind the scenes. >> yes. >> quiet. >> she was a quietoul. has l on sasrysiri had a gentle spirit, and what i like to say about her most is lof g ve kti athe w 5n w ssedtot told me she didn't hold grudges. for her to experience all she experienced, t bomb in the house in1966, i mea ts a w adf io n usndte il attsst e no emotion of

bitterness, only love and hond fanhe j -and good wilnd l itedid thnd h wndo lith that constantly. you can imagine as children ivno 7ndteout o fath being wa y e h filled, but my mother taught us about loving and our father lived for a good cause. ied w xeinhe me w did you come up with the title desert rose? diulcunc,he

gredso aske ne,o fly, and yet through my mother's faith, education, and family's upbringing, kind ofik hh rcan dcu rcan prtut thn the beautiful devoted, dedicated, graceful, determined, committed, mison-mde w, d 'swyu c yeolutprh,2? >> actually, i dot remember april 4tht all. i, you know, i was told i was lehee e stlou 7p. ata a so i was, you know, they were putting me to bed, and

weo gmy ferod when my mother g ba ata k one,w,ha gg e mhat, you know, my father was no longer be able to speak to me. he's gone home to livewi, in'aynyg meel a wene airport, got on the plane, and i heard a noise, i guess a wind, and i , ieack shld m ct, ke aeputt ae to talk. i said heard him breathing. she said, no, no, that's not him. lar on, i asked how is he going to eat reerdangt h tdiabl

me hiorg me os tls a th end, and he was would chew it lick celery. i remember that. it'smbedd id. gooeca m. ts ouno rememb the feeling though. it was hot, a lot of lights, a lot of cameras, and m moaid 'sreh tig goer eth t waen w o do the eulogy, they decide ited to place my fr'fery4t bat ch ton red a strange way, he talked about, if you're around when i have to meet b dad, tell

them i don'tant aong th w hd. thellin d thlh ept rbe my mom said he can't speak anymore, he can't talk. suddenly, i'm like looking for myd. m inathe cet sg a owh fr' voice, and she tried to put her arms around me and comfort me, but that was kind of eee. - d osigs i ea fily my sister said they were buddies. she found comfort coming home, d plkel,nd m 'teat eed

it t lor mother. martin the third who carries his name was the same thing. my brotherdext,ewek rumisi usad soo sor people's campaign and was doing recruiting in the south, and 10 they got the chance that last time to spend that time with him doing the work thathe dd. reerad ocos , w game, and he -- i was in his arms, picked me up, okay, we're going to pay he cd hugps game. where he's mom sugar pops? detes martin, where's

ha ksllts p won ord. ot rbe ein eeeid te, okay? i remember the forehead. >> how did your mother's life change after yr dad? >>ngraal siy- wmy erg mennd f, edbencnger before she met daddy. she was preparing for that before nay met. she had to wrestle with her min aan tof un aa d t so she surrendered and accepted the proposal to marry him. in the movement, she had a ra m fmontportity to u efrm, for speeches

for dad, and from time to time, organizing, and e last year, having the kings persndhe un t tere ombuceas se mrch as i would have liked to. >> was she gone a lot more? >> she was gone, but she was busy. thhie m nes ht oh 'te e. ng mer ht pshdi pce because she was focused on institutionalizing his legacy. she felt th america needed to understandhe v thgat sfi t t methwhonlee fledy jesus christ, and so she built the king center in atlanta and poured her hea and soul i th and gnid

teng tghn-en prmsin center, teaching people about non-violence, and th the focus shifted as they raised the money. that's when realnee t dbtre tng ationduan imagine, i'mn her room sometimes when she's at home, and she's on the hometalking t presidents, prime mister evey, myom wenal e th fso ew tndad y me's notice. she could talk the president with a certain posture, and if e 4 to talk to someone in the wog ki cr,g her, an eer over. enve tth h ttomend she had

little parties, and if you came over, she was going to fix you some of her favorite vegeble soup eetol bo me aough gontagutth mendexd tt, ioutdendit. you live under such threat, but for her, that was fulfilling reatyli o t felt this is t tht igom here to there. that's what it's been about. >> did your mother and family stay in the sameouse after ur d? >>ftdyas asid, yeea h. in6.easch fr didn't want to own anything because he wa influenced bygan difficult -- ghdi hs sglit bangeedy talking about

in the book how that's my fate, sohe always anticipated that she s hoth un 2t ihe h ar ginrare y mother's or father's side? >> i very much did. i visited my grandparents in evsu f tweryunda-- st alpyts grandmother with -- i didn't cook, but, you know, i helped her around the dinner table, seing up the dishes at the wang ctshnd stheabdg miises and i spent a great deal of time with them,

and ultimately thanksgiving, and cltom.her'eni s iheve w inntin if >> after your dad's assassination or even before, did youhave security around your family at all times? mort nd, fohe we had security, and they went to school wh us, and ihoug it was embarrassing to have the folks around. thatut ies,s, li kmab a alofisyo know, the gnitude of who m father was, the family was or anything, but other than that, we never had my erd, tan liffsig ter

rme ys, s that until her death. >> somebody with her at all times? >> yeah. >> could she go to a store without being stopped? >>shbl t sou oprtunity to really go shopping with my mom, you know? a couple of times that ican evtun m got sed leldan utph ur aoshdn ot beuse it was a little burdensome. we did more dinners as a family in restaurants in private ars, dieowo cnds w y,ow ct itry difficult to really go out. i don't -- e probably did more

awnd orlndunt on vacaons, thestre b lllouneor mbhaio. h err i went to the hallmark store with her a couple time ps on the. >> hallmark? hlm mo,us ahea reg s, ngre s the exact card for the person. she was that thoughtful. first time i went with her, i watched it. e 4 a list ofwoon me ke m a. gae a, l aash fes people. i went to start looking and thinking about the relationships she had with the perp,he type of person she was to get the heethe r i ad took it backto igewmet w reaui'li

e obu stplo are busy, send the people, get a card, get it done. she was thoughtful and considerate. at how f many le at whihe peal. m pe >> any irony in the fact that the book is published by the university of alabama? >> well, yes. thers a t of i. ce,he bfr amuth e ves cotr am that's the irony, and we remember george wallace standing and blocking the doors at the keg the blacud fabama, you know, mi a hest rwtohe dheba aticd mn luther king, jr., tried to run him out of alabama, you know,

lihorola amdturbing e d's life togethers now being published by the university of alabama press. iind that -- and i'll tell you jush gelaestny edtho 19 -- what year was th? >> 63? >> i think it was,but the irony da au edi died. >> what's the last conversation you had with your mother? >>outh i'tme ray m yokn motd atr

in august of 2005, and so from that point forward, she didn't talk a lot. was w was 2 reer x eron i remember the sunday before, she had the stroke on a tuesday. wa taaaman wau4t ed low iad tt ck a re she was okay. she had a minor stroke two weeks before that coming tuesday. i was checking to make sure evyt wy,nd i d ssiaprk caateeer kiurnerk account, and she signed the paperwork, and that wasur last real conversation. i'll give you a cal osd

ha aro tdand e isto e eron reeof ag. e few words here and there. >> what are you doing these days? what are you doing these days? >> i'm the ceo of the king eremensti thun a an edio fo s's more available an line as well as infused in the school system because, you know, her mission setonleinhe lianth tlyy ot o ihh at system. that's, you know, the mandated mission of the kings' center is, you know, to hel to bring about the vef communityatdadi anvihehiph that he taught and lived and

developing leaders in the same spirit as dr. king. that what i'm dog at the ki cr, and arso prs bin aho fatyt're coit leoal, socially disney experience, but when you leave there, it's like you've been in alace be saimedndcaat ll du entertainment. >> is the church still active? >> it's stl active. ju rornd-odst rierplanco a e n theking's center. mother made sure she placed the center in that community to reserve thecommity ns fofr-acacky

e y 20s0 a te t process of demishing many homes there, and one was my father's birth home, but because of my mother that placed the center there th e in m erl n us of that. ebenezer is there, and the new facility is very much a thriving congregaon f t aow di unrecented ryrathho orber years, and it's going to be a resource center. >> we've been talking here on booktv with bernice king, the dahterof sefet t , a b tey nt er caretta scott king and there's an

afterward by ms. king. "theesert rose: l >>'r wininie om ykty t publishing industry's national trade show. bopoicm.nformation visit haeyoad t erooan t ow ll i ade this summer i'm focused on chris prenvo oinnew bookn perm hnkey, ivee oke. j kennedy, elusive hero, and one of the great things about being chairman of the caucus is we get to bring people in to talk about th boks,nd alme ake t

br cossh af spouses as well, and what was an incrible evening where people got to ask questions, ect., and see therlde douc -eas incredible research and interviews. it's a book you can read over and over again, and so very propriate for summer reing, key've sas witpresen on hopny, and we'd be okay. that's one of the books i'm reading. another pers who's been in our asin t toi - ro la. ani so bre e caucus now. her own personal story as

someone who grewupn, n jsh dnthoew ira w lyo eetlo vts that go on in iran, and w this is fiction as the old saying goes, more truth is said in wi tastiteci tpliner t she con csh -- rencdaokou so well, andlshe initr aea a creant the system in current regime in iran as well, and so this is a fiction,ut it makes for an soinatta

tdi, b ao fse reading is our own tim ryan has just produced a book, and we had a little repti fimh gpanokbois thtfdvice for anyone in congress, but people in general, just being in the moment and being more tughtful withme evneom john wden to -- excuse me -- from john woodeto idndnd ha this very becauseful side about him, and i think it was nice for his colleagues to see that as well so w

mm tokanf urjo l jmeut with his book. "across that bridge," and he was recently in hartford, the keynote speaker at i'noce et'sgraduation a prly an,ve year, re-enacts therossing of the bridge in thatfamous mrc it vcolit d,ouroha bridge," again, feares the incredible journey of the incredible arican herond vilig lr. rl iir ts wo rmendh i