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>> i am sure that tom is as hay as i am do know that we are tonight's alternative to ambien. aur] attehoslosnew novel is in some sense about exactly what you wouldtk aia.ocof s t -mocc onomee ored in1972, is that correct? and ultimately send -- sent ores of pele. nynytlwer and, and ultimately led to the

resignation, the only one in our history, of the president of th cenlr.o.l vn i because it dramatically changed the perception of americans about the legal profession. icin ce heee check y t itet itatno the american legal curriculum of legal ethics classes, far more important for me i should people t inides of th gaoi ac themselves into engaging in horbly corrupt behavior, and spl rses,finde, thera

rtar d r who, senator ervin waiting around his little pocket copy of t instngri tdn.d ve e li ihaaswrh possible. so, to meet its -- and like most young americans,sflf ri r guerros. t what's amazing about this is, i was given "watergate" originally aufdf o mlsto d e,tt n,te npr weekend edition host,native

chicago income and said here's a terrific book. you ought to read . d otr. aazgv d ntourse of our discussion i'll beable to make clear why, bti us a ofataeno t wa a question for four years, namely why in the world did anybody of any good sense want itprseovtisw tqti orei fr ry me, amusing account of how the 18 minute gap, which wasa famous detiofromne o h selyent

isju delightful. and the neatest part of it is you don't have to be a watergate ff. srblntal veir aem and it's, on top of being a significant novelistic achievement, and it's also just a damn gd , myiruenr doureto omas? thomas mallon is a renowned historical novelist. he's written aboutrf cis menh. t qioi , w draw you towhat is probably been the most

so cedidin, reportedo,n icrenths? el i think probably two things. i live in washington, and -- >> excuseme. i live rihcost etm rgs afda od ay eet omu ndsot always crosses my mind. but more than anythinglse, it has to have been nixon. in that the was nobody hulu and agrovrww rid n.an asfn. hee s . te time, i was in diapers during the 52 campaign. irioeenc veitas wertravrd ina io lod experience

counts button. [laughter] my father would pssionately, pro-nixon and i. ha eksnyeigh60 llougrs ht n,tein't he enough experience toe president. it was a very counterintuitive decision for a nine year old to be taking i guss buai-- xohws pde hnalyom est in . pesoeto vinam war, some ending, long any,tumultuous the, kent state, mb, ofng teopgnhe so u. t hee y town with this is nixon in 68 campaign in an open corporate i don't know how that was a lod. six months te bobbyked

inheg,bua. s nter oth toe lrse p ta, remember. and mrs. nixon was sitting on the top of the ackseat, and i al rbe yr hand, oo, and i ie,sh hsesiy els . they were digging into the red leather upholstered of the backseat of the lincoln. d some of tis image o pik eld h h muo boms n s al vma figure in the book, and i think i many accounts was a much li aymc ssonality, uc mor th partly these other novels

of mine, i frankly written about american historical even from the point iew of ynd, opavtt aup agllennd cw atlente balcony with a link is on the night of the assassination. and so people were on the frges, and th some of that with this book there are cerin lire hoewtrgatae o ane between, between the committee in the white house d the burglars. people like m, as well as some of the biggepgot. e heghdiure owst etor esnvnteripral figures but to try to get inside the heads of, to use the john major, the big enchila. and t tona n

mstomet's xo nboev le c tarve hebk. we see everything from their point of view. anm g uoak eon nost itri historical fiction has the leisure to present a more finely sliced and subtly textured time todohjo olied soial history. ty is oan.nvtec biod t brand names at the breakfast table, can giva more probable picture of, to paraphrase, the way we live in. itnwat a tecmefths l simply its picture

of a time, you know, that i remember well, although a number of people sitting here certainly thovs iouef wheogo o rison, when their conduct leads to the resignation of the president o the united states, theyae at aslcas bd , and while by no means dismissing the magnitude of what happened in connection with watergate, e ateid edtest po oew these folks with the basic mission that every good novhs i erthveblbl

ev, bs r kind of loss that a novelist always has to have for her or his characters, to the floor. so i wanted to ask yo about , t ilngsso ursind other people you wrote about. >> yeah. poy a ainly didn't want to o-nsl bo ll yno tin stwieois tied to the railroad tracks. i mean, that didn't interest me as a novelist. and i don't think he was the. coxieom le was a man of enormous i lmethono at utodew n h rt s after year, decade after decade with lyndon johnson?

i sort of diit now. having spent the last three or meio' ive otith richard io yw teb gs thhewssenmly complex. i mean, we had these two really brokeharacters follow each other in the white house. yecupy the white house for 10 n rmdsiti w b hywe . t d think that simple bill in the, as b as smple talented. apiao vr wh edtethof little nell without laughing had to have it heart of stone. copleaumted viue s s r n

villainy. i really wanto try to get inside nixon's head and at the summ of the others but and if yothink that this is one of the things thatol qug..thth wehews su e idntk once heard that nouns always trump adjectives. and the phrase the stroke of whsion is a boardroom which is wheocop e idea schto om okismt y,cul doknhan but a good biographer, and there've been many good biographies of richard nixon, tohck i oean hnrapr alws ha yiianet echo pssw banwll, it is not implausible to beieve that nixon might have thought of

this. y'retoft yonwha n ti d rves vnu npseation of facts, although all historical fictions inspir to feel real. but i think it's one way that yocan ti t te op nerap tm le >>l tofn pot, quoting the same distinguished american historical noelist your the stalis gle ed y ad the dark motives and conduct i described in my character, enry graf von, akingout"hr d a" ae of cafrfr irtns

rtas they are, preposterous. now, one of the delights of this novel is tt it's full of d gorou y ape yo now, i have all kinds of things i want to ask about, but the first one i,st yt istobl wifesot ffu >> no. only those high hels on the red leather upholste.aur] t , hasti in book.hra you can recognize them in a long list of characters that is at abth of t h te book, d only

s uoon rs. d r hete ac wreply deoufh hooo amed tom gerry hand in there who is a retired trust estate lawyer, twinkling sort of irishmen. thicervi rkerlot he o rnf foia in 1952, they went to new york for what he called the wilderness years. borrowing a term from churchill. isyrpe t pp tofmslen- shwaae be a lawyer's life, and she lived on fifth avenue. they had an apartment and issuing to museums and bookstores. shthout shwas of rod. giweoiffho anmger alint this very gentle tender and

brief communist, matte ofnt faw, shvpheirn xogio fo id in 1967 the he starts manning his campaign but this is nixoi have in the book is tremendously loyal to richard nixos lish toere mc len lenk . their daughters were on these are really admiring ad lovn si pe,emd, soind e gmly ers a little warmer than we think. but things happen. i'm sure he was not an ideal sb a.tis ien,s orsthase

ghisldbe emotional heart of the book, their favorite part of the book. there was another reviewer who liked the book orall bu wa madey syth thtta heeevi an tht was, if this is the worst that julie and tricia ever gothrough, this isthing compared to wh theve d mf becd on t trin iler corruption to do we who is a medicare guide written by in another novel. but i did n see this on the tht aen eysi and lpe aulwy, hlp m to imagine what i think was a

real mrs. nixon, by inventing experience that there was not evidence for. do nt belve thpd. t ll m ir do processes in a waythat let me portray her, i think, more unethically than it would haveotherwise. thrygette tt liouo se xtt at s doing with that and tom. >> it's enormously compelling, anpartt or t al lov mrs. nixon. it's a brilliant strategy, as a, as a novelistic tehique

thstrv ng mphbu sk oaut more point in the novel. there's a point at which richard nixon gives a speech, and he says tt, he quotes oe bue ob hebw id ounsas nagwautag ac d eof podium and comes up to elliot richardson, who is anoer passing figure in this novel, the way hes rtd. , cp diylk wuos and he said perfect. perfect, right on point. and nixon says, i made it up. my question,weo he n a ha richardson, but there's evidence that he did make up the quote but i think it's in the diaries

whid t oederman said, nxos enqo? matu.o lawrence, the longtime "newsweek" writer, he just died recently. this was the white house isignt shonh di, they have to arrive late because at the beginning of the dnner,wodd-wowd beeie g tot oor hed tes been sticking with this story. nion andron sigler from his press secretary, they timed his arrival sohat he doe have beteetre a t m,a

ane ory is. at that same dinner, the press present him with this sortf sterlingsilvervin pohevntyuhi 72in c, g ss e s e rd whatever. can't imagine the press doing that even with a president they like. these da. so y c see sort s 19igtrinunig gtoe er countries in the middle east. he suddenly looks to be the honest broker. egyptians thrown out the rushes but it looks as if t prca yngo hbis n e' e retn a wag. and clearly his thinking, this is the greatest hail mary pass of all time. if he can somehow broker a deal in ted ' ee

wgauttwibah rilu t clruutnhm. >> well, as you can tell from a commentor, this is just a wondfulbde fn ct lldd'reha ewha to say about this book, althgh they've been enormously audity. i could tell from just my bu ko om rop entken with a character whom i suspect most people here who haven't read the novewoul notno eaalut ata wa friend of almost everybody

who mattered in washington, d.c. topr d ely as an elderly o, so talked about richardson before, who is, you know, was fromy prveeou , gnat ra e tesas whe detputh id takes. and instead it turns out, and i suspect this is historically pr susgpolhardh da ubof hs. benyg oawith that kind of criminal record, having engaged in behavior we now view as much, much, much more buti sasuor

wo >> longworth. >> mrs. longworth says to them at a cocktail party that you know, well, you look more like dick tracy than clark kent. sor telu hought o itng >>l,l say anything. she famously had a pillow in her dupont circle measure that said if you can't say anything nice about somebody, come sit by me. shtrs9i 7 nivrfiey itth ha mark nixon. she was very fond of pat. anute ed. tixhi in deeec tecade, you know, with

this long, long historical memory. she's ally around for and aeltg. tinan onnos h90aarn february 1974. this is only months before he resigned. he and mrs. nixon go to work dupont circle use, and mr. wos etahe f d well, she doesn't get obsessed with the petty things that upsets the rest of us. and somebody brings this go back er and as i ht oors shys he tee? t egh laer d wr ihr nbok tpoanysth ecok is ticking? taking. [laughter] but sh was also very syathetic toi ea eubln,

on s fev.h'dn longwort was, nicholas longworth, she married the speakeof the house of the house of the represents bute d far wicnerad aug tevod ewwagtasll s htadnoth shnto te daughter deborah but even she relented at that w iboch ae othat was a bit too migio martha mitchell if anybody remembers the waterge days remembers mrs. mitchell was a very flamboyant caracer, utheer, ain lt, d py ay. t ll sruran imy hismitchell had a tremendous drinking problem, and

mitchell's, they leave washington for wyork fairly eay on inthe da soshe wt hene dahe washington was a very hard drinking town, days that probably persisted hours into the '70s she -- >>h er ow >> tiedrrs imenwheo av d much. that she was, sometimes you just know this when you're writing a character. ..

icsos enly abmohach xs cln son youtube. he talks to richardson just after he has mae him an attorney general. he needs. svhi sintatthreng omo rib rih o. n hened ot is oldya way. and he is thinking of the way that his case had taken him far

in ti. li bansy,el noaluru ia rscu thng c dhi yourself. and richardson said, well, abtapresident,i n ni weeimtth tpodootnt heysuwveou want, i will back you to the hilt. you appoint whoever you like summit you can dig up charles fin, rewneve if youn. avbl aerot. richard nixon -- i often work late at night, and he he is the last voice i would here before going to bd. itis a combatio wd.

there's also stuff on there, bigotry, long rants, stuff that could put you to sleep. thenhere mentshere anou hnwa wf nt fly w. wnvr, very visionary tae. he was aery siony ma doththha onhaern a- stark as other presidents. we have about 13 minutes left. ifousn'avd easily occupy that. ess,il sude ras tiftndthe you engage colloquy wh om allo

ierye y] it tom, with that internal velocity that scott referred to, i was wondering, what advice would you give to some of t high school reg ovt rati mmer caon e ammyrle, mayor ronnie summit improvement programs. what would you give for vicet teg buwimic. >>thr ohento be right, i would come to read indiscriminately, to read everything. one thing i do like about the web, it aesyufo r

that is how i read when i was young. i remember getting my adult library card wn i was 12 years ol wohaee talo thg,bo er ca s tgr a hiyhn o'hara. suddenly, i was free to re these. i was also rainiwso in tro an cot.aend h u i 1969. i was mad for politics at a young age, and i read this ok it no the best written novel, but it was very gripping in its own way. one of the things that young writers, if they are excited about reading, g an th1 tteovrfi

wal mpeachment. it was my attempt to write a political novel. i clearly have been warming up for the spoke for about 45 s. n'enemwhhe wae iopren e pe ev i s at ws enagin my father, who stuck with richard nixon, to the very last mome. i told this sto rectly for thonlyime er h du tum ole d uach aweer tc tewge. urtoan said, a'we,inttt it wsvrpp gh i wrif sa

e rt rtedford movie. [inaudible question] the other thing , i woer you afe bu rengha ngiohegsut hee e e as foioat sse eand thelike to try to build up the presidents, i guess, overall popularity, retive to some of the decisions he made oaa? >> yet. >> they decided to go in the hearings. i s wondering if you had heard about that. on oatouart ht,imo p

evhej the hearings are on come i don't think they could have th same coa thesewmm 93 thing. at the timei eedo tuic ped en crhoro e itemy qu e nghas an i coy n'cu o ind wao d . hahe cel tevision worlus the internet. erackn r stntth rudlor where thcopirats to plan the kidnapping of lincoln. i am not seeing that movie -- i

vesei,bute th.wrethinof rtthmactn st i wrote a nonfiion book really was a long new yorke profile that turned into a short bo. asbouaqeroo 19d thwa knt e ews keeping her rifle in her crotch. she got a job at the texa school boo ety wis re wn is, use reo lanod annyone else. wrote about what this had gone to her own lifetime and how she had sort of prison abs eahiwrwa e gsoual e

t n hnshd hehttsfo kennedy was killed -- it was a point in time in which oswald had already wrapped up the rifle and se aside for what was toowhe textioing tdo heouoeaod use seteom r ahe hth the boy lacked a father, and that the boy's actualftherwas ffntttvehi soreouve m, h alyencnr steps to not only kill the president of the united states the next y, but to deprive another little boy, a three-year-old boy

plg idoeiather. dsif n kindness. that is the kind of thing t e tr eofh - ry remeut n re ie heratt or fonth i s ic ti e t his, istorical fiction generally provide the opportunities to hypothesizing aw thatsrht raanstca. es aa? >> nixon was on the health and american activities committee. coishe was definitely onteane

woerf eelth h believed allhese people that ended up getting blacklisted were actually a potential threat urpame otthwe ead u 9% hepley -- they were quitehrl,lt foiseep h eynkno ouinhwasro diunkt meg he was playing for politics? >> he certainly did not -- he was not disappointed at te paiid tha one case is absolutely sinful to xon. itdefinitely think he elve

th h ori udh nded tide of opinion has vindicated him. it has gone better in his favor. whherfi i rn, h hw h problem was phrased, whether he felt they were a threat, i would leave it to real scholars opposedtntsea hao trbyad n,ta about the case to people he is frequently talking about. he frequently talks about it on ho cdis vif rdatmu atrama ra i. >>e have one minute.

anybody? yes,sr jusan ase od neghw? onyg >> m m iti a novel about washington during the second reagandiisio e pguhake e n17heaes ry l tighe mination. almost beating gerald ford out. but finally loses to him. that gives this speech that wrmatomed thecni e oenthricha nixon in his home office in sacramento, watching it on what he would call thetb

here he is wating a convention onesoich his ne wiev fa troe o s rt of feellike a sequel to me. >> thank