goein inorrymps the founder of crumpton group a strategic international advisory and business development form which works with globa corporations inclinghin frue,rgd ncseesist teonth political, security

and commercial dynamics in emerging and frontier markets. th ndne secei98on joins s n fost eare ininasments. in washington he served at t fbi'debut cheaper than rnnarrm at son wdetyhifhci unteersmten 01 ad 0 led the cia's afghanistan campaign. he then became chief of the cia's national resources division and 205ul abdoumed cortrit u. pantt cron has been honored with many common nions including thdistinguished intelligence wedeghthmbdoa'shigst wa

y ptisit uhi in eshi bok, les a life in the cia's clandestine service. would you please join me now in welcoming ambassador henry crumpton. cesnkft great introduction and for th opportunity to come and speak at this store. it is really a priilege. tattered cover has been n th nvrer ha0 s,vi aatvi t mudweer lkear heed atte cover hosted 600 events a year. that is pretty remarkable so thanks for what you and all your llesfheve mmy. woltoog a opomoper i y. nhaoor coming, former governor of colorado herefor many years.

i'm honored that you could attend. lohep -w.u faly m eo s stdu fromcollege and my brother-in-law, steve, thank you all for joining me tonight. it makes i very scial wh timor?e. y i o a portance, and what should we do? we as cizens. i include myself in tat gorits. ftert icre f yaa thgornment, 24 with the cia and 18months serving under secretary rice for cutetsbee sm, and foow

wh that? ta primarily because of the growing complexity our nation faces and thebattlefield and the rkaceaale ct f e thvaleat wod like to underscore very briefly that i think impact on this glob landscape. 9/19s b cutters, did they compel us to spend may be $tron atbrta hin out imctoaglmen infal qeda with hoible images uploading this into cyberspace having an immediate global impact, it

advanced thing the propaganda of al qaedandheir aes ecerav al evec.utma a atglck o bl to infect thousands, tens of thousands, maybe more computer systems around the world? eds ese aplo pothhemm o jun terms of threats and risks but also opportunities. who would have thought someone wobee i apa keaoo inw pe individuals, small companies, entities, that facebook and other social dia ed hbebl eer qu adtsowe usy

fct in's celerated. the second variable is the role of nonstate year's. when we used totnba wa nioat nn- ar a been irregular forces of course, always irregular warfare, but more often than not today when we think about threats to the riwelg ttes we thinko ns aurl a, ol,hearrake uth our border and within the united states, these ansnatnal cartels. yeirenuosfroa aneiownen t just in mexico, the u.s. and central america but the reach goes to centl african year. and nonstate actor.

e mathxas. tlsnrss, npts, clergy, media, private companies like the tattered cover, this boostor thabthvabang isbalsc we kibootet 's infghanistan, after our efforts immediately preceding 9/11 inani, in ckona ezet mo portt weada fight was not a nation-state. it was not nato. af tl eratdtateaors, os ug tou. e liti malaar thewod.

but they are variable is global battlefield. i talked about thatngle errai aae im udincrse. aeoumiou adversaries, they can plot and plan on one side of the world and execute on the other in days, urs or in cyberspace we are talkingsends. iu te e po t gngof tat, thl complex, fragile global battlefield if you will, the emergence and convergence of ose ares he ner eni thiy macic son inouha e ris tre? who are our enemies? how do we define them? how do we find them? ene then ce we d h do

esrutith meant for intelligence collectors a analysis, to inform policymakers and other consumers of intelligence so they can make tht her deon pre,e neeon juhe. alur allies. than to give you an example, in afghanistan afer9 en nd fdmb,, larbtrolh baowy icw on the ground at that time? bear in mind that a quarter of al qaeda leadership had been ll ,ay0,or thafi.enle

their leadership was routed and they were on the way to pakistan. how ny america were on the le ta . 9/ tndaft whh a t.s va of afghanistan after 9/11, i grind my teeth. because it was not an as it nus.sictory. it was an afghan victory. because we, through our networks, which were infmed by our tellce olctioer ye,w e oou ems. neo lwend ls deod our respective potential allies and we worked to bring them to our side. llcetsy

ulvepec,a l e e caad over 100 sources in every province, am on every tribe, among every strata of thstes. t afghastan. a pethuen, weurs t the enemy buour friends and our potential friends and allies. that is how we we able to work closely with ctralommandn eciaernsmao thni sc.t ghs the late speaker of the house and great american politician, tip o'neill, hetrnsferred all tiocll ouk om tis ataths al scthdri t alsotrue for intelligence collection. you have to understand those

neighborhoods, those villages, those valleys and the pele usre sin of s to o sfl le complicated global arena, we have t understand. themt u tin cocttwe face, driven by nonstate actors in some states like iran and north korea and others that support terrorist sutearse ques ct rcni. punageb ry orand more i believe a conflict about the people among the people and this is where human inteigen rtariman t lsabt

llcet ps or plngdei to 9/11.pr it wasn't just the human networks i talked about. signals intelligence, collection of infortion from the sp, ec f bece tte ia d hedaro er driven to tat technical collection, that particular platfo out of a degree of frusatio. afistheradgu thys rt9/bu like in washington were unsatisfied with our reporting, did not trust their human sources. amane.ted es on ifyui ore sdiats ben wstarted sending cia teams into afghanistan in september of 1999 to work with

our afghan alies to collect inlligence a tongge i so or wned ufencog e policymakers, to our master's if you will. so we look to technical means because we could not ovo pouam rtinaann. ld lld er ticoon d cme h pror which have beenproven in the balkans so we networked and it was a reliable platform, and so themblefrtch rin b,hul olakan dlo ial recall some bureaucrats not just in the cia's coterterrorism center, but in themili,oter enf een inatofseut war asthie

oynt afghanistan. and sure enough, driven by intelligence collection from our ab f bada rthegndw e s mespthan imof bin laden highlighted. that was taken from the video of at surillance platforoff of that peda is ie er e be. ewiha intelligence, without confirmation, we did not have sufficient authorities or resources toengage with lethal foe agt la. ths l t waoteati adventure. the technology in fact apparently was not that difficult. it would have been for me personally but for our technical

stafhesaidwa t ouhdo a aiin ll w ir force platform under the command of cia? that was a miracle, and again they did this in just afew th fiis wpo d wneth most precise, adaptable, flexible weaponwe have in or arsel. ehefiwgb fr lwa away. driven bynecessity. what about threats we face now. naudible qstion] meus k efab at al.alea eyinthws i se q affiliates

surfacing in eme full scale anw rrt upst mespbi fhe ibt i ene 0 lele and 105 that last count, hundreds wounded. in syria anotr group just surfaced claiminrespbity foan ac fni, fft thl cdt mullah front has claid responsibility for some horrific attacks. popped upjusce.actors have he i dou paul aed t abenlasi that safe haven in southern yemen, they have tried to attack us in the homeland on three occasions. inrt ng wy.

tre mot. an the substate after quds force, their intelligence service, tir o for zbh. fo/1zahkd aeanany er rrt oa t i siy cty . liin powaan is -- and i'm not sure that any of our policymakers understand that her realize that, but that b of mcot hee heeh. eking to develop a capability to at some point build a nuclear weapon. that is a threat. hereotnlak ssrenc tin th fedoth.e n'ows i d s e are more hostile intelligence officers inde the

ited states now than at the height of the cold war. isfsenrit pie thtetu piwee ie s. becereferred to that. weapons of mass destruction, biogical weapons in rtaram tar ncd h lkutelnc ale. doocete ochemist whose got the ingredients and he is working in a small laboratory, maybe a whre p ahae has beefd? int? ata htelligence target. bw, that is a big problem. but whatautsidcha

whbo china? i believe that china poses an espionage threat to us. they are sophisticated d th araggrsive ils ncd ttaty weasngnat increasingly adopts, embraces liberal values and liberal institutions. aarntn lo ecoeses an rtper rorce nd battling transnational threats whether it's terrorism, other crime. we need a strong cna,te wc tu let e erreanca da ss, a powerful country and great resources. what is going to happen in this transition with putin?

woy u taouw leadership role. e. thgrnas r er sdl a indonesia, india, what roles did they play? what will be the geopolitical impact wax many complexies and manyuestns. vevsen lt feo nuonat llcet ar and if you look at the risks, they are complex and there are many. i'm nosu if the world is more dangerous now than itwas during t colwar hou,wn dectuty re aden t em that. it's a differe type of threat, a different type of risk. i al think there arereat ifotlitifties ouer rastioeia

ivti te arab spring. great opportunities but also it raises many questions that we poma ath hessnro so a of you thinking about a career in intelligence service i would encourage you -- nale i ad ca disierd n k focongnwipe e r up. [applause] owce auou other countries or units like al qaeda getting ahold o the

igrquon used against us,u ghwte e 4 tithreagn depmandu of their own unmanned aerial systems including iran. we know that. there is really no way to keep that in abot uc tis lfi mealvale i sepaul rte . how do we build a defensive strategy against those threats, those airplanes? we are in the process of doing atnd i think we have a long watogo ithentge ec cilsain our, not just their homeland but particularly our troops and our embassies and other installations that are scattered all over the world. and it wllegrg uselncobo w e ndures

aithyp tic collection? a big problem. a good question, thank you. >> i was wdering if youhad th w attcitha inig tt it needs to collect? >> that's a terrific question. i talked with the current director of the cia, gal thisimti t ecer fs se er jno ad that and it is a sacred mission if you will. anotng l oris an important ole anmerm e ow ert eveess away from the more traditional, more strategic issues about geolicalower s

a,thrcoo xind d wwi r neo mer whiset wed do. there is a stress, there is a strain in the cis a small organization and the clandeste service the 'sefe le an oopeaan waroitealygh and moreover if i could spend your question, i am concerned not only about the militarization of intelligence, but the militarition cy enooeww paf ie es r ta they are very adaptable. they are aggressive and they have done some terrific work. they want a leadershiprole. agsi ent lts paul the leadership over

some of these expeditionary, high-risk environments. we do really good job of ojngitwe rtioweivy teen e ereeialda ousidtaf a pakistan theater, the last decade, his life expectancy ha been about six months. 'sobod ts guhech oatofr ifoul,h t run operations for al qaeda and that part of the world, you have got a pretty grim future. it's because of this llceth er we bia elea themg adin labuwe got him. where we could do a lot more work is in onmilitary non-covert action as part of our licy w neteatho

wrecisnomar rlrothr particularly in some of these expeditionary environmen? what is the role of the state jue,ot?ent and commerce and ca sethseti ct? aie ikat ann, sss had and the relative stability from zero to 205 where the afghs re just waitinfor e rnnammy om nostn ubue prt nli power. energy, education, health care. now we have spent billions and billions, wasting mostof ev axcngneie min.r o mirioninig, 's a policy and i don't

necessarily blame the military. in fact i admire them. they are charging hard. theyre gfwa. wh gh otj lkabenngh thal force against the enemy. bees vintages and valleys that se, hposecured and we ca ictt nt ditscicbese op tneom killing us, stopping the enemy from attacking us in our homeland but whap a tonly the first 10,0%. w oue ndg ct >> hello. i am with a major u.s. air kerry and w mupl plion--y

nciyed other parts of africa and the security of our crews when they re laying over in those countries. do you see alqdanhoe thho torond dyo rveem eing at risk in those countries? >> i think it depends where you are in africa. it's a massive continent and we itrgrtl tr bstceigigow libvly t u.ndo es the canyons and the ugandans and the ethiopians and se of the somali clans, they have done a pretty good job of containing isedtreaninoae er rot yar attriatt by some ethnic somalis in australia to launch terrorist attacks.

rebl to ovt , rmitt he crese thwa link back to somalia so when i talk about the global landscape, that is an example. in africa though, you have got a owc orn ca inyaers ap nd thaen enretri dissatisfaction. bears are satisfied with the government that anytime you got colictanytyo g ticus ios th t apnge at w pe ridfrth what's going to happen in pts of north africa. so somalia we have been focused on for years and we e doing think an adequate job forow th iga tr cali r wod t. alle

al cd abt nigeria. it tells yoa lot about the al qaeda affiliates and ou adversaries. youlokat oornn medoiweny ucn. thorwn with institutions. i believe that africa offers a lot of promise, a lot o opportity ouoo t grownme t ns enusou ha isilessti growing, that is really challenging the status quo. i spent 10 yearsn africa's indifferent countries in some respects i'meroveut arsk awlng bee hcab ths.dsber look at the chinese, the indians and russians, hers that are in their competing.

in these capimarkets di an ojngt mar we gomeit companies like yours, private enterprise, they goes into places like africa and cond itr cu, tunity, e dud aoba lil est inre mtan ouoverall strategy. a erpocian ngmeoappu r vocalization and interfering in syria or intervening directly or otherwise. i'm curious wh you think the united states's stance should be aboutttsiti li boraes.

believe that the key strategic geopolitical strategic issue here whewe step back and look at the middle east is that ria reay th lli ahedlet. wllia oat iranian orbit or let me rephrase that. if we help empower the syrian people to do what they want to , uhasee ou tra th lledlydin connections, the networks of hezbollah in lebanon which poses a direct threat, not just on israel butithk he ra stiod owenreia ddlaenatw sethhohe middle east. so i think it's a big strategic opportunity. how we do this is important. now you have g saudi arabia

doerelha resuinmsth thittagomes ppgnhad, communication. beyond that i don't know what we are doing but i hope it's more than what i'd know or what e blic knows because if re pe, re ctind anhelil ps are there, trying to influence and drive the future ofsyria. exceedy le 'gwe png ts heunr s tiler lorsbet tste there. but we have to ngage at some point i beleve. a good queson, thanu. this gentlemre teisavi,b social networking, enterprises and

industries such as facebook that involve 700illion people renue $il usua wypf ntarhth gatiharebo "watrt journal" called the technocrats that is being established, where the central intelligence agency plays in dealingwih 0 iold al or? ate? el v beut te fooranor i can tell you what they are doingn social networks and need even if i did know i wouldn't be able to discuss it. i will m could general comment at m ass yr en. telotrfeng nd world and is being manifested some social media like facebook or like others, linked in is another great examp. is v aat rty ivisa

ablstii mprsm itne . that advances our strategic objective in the united states. and i think at the thiaee usthotst islmp t uns. tri ele ey hetith than be led by these young, bravetechnocrats that organize through scial media and overthrew the ra regim eylll t threiealysin d ined ysl p prla o cied if lat se the illiberal actors and groups in egypt that are now vying for power in concert with the egyptian mary, howoes all thlaou chnginig ecmpivi believe for the cia. so a very general answer but i

hope that suffices. herar lets wo hm yet neofflin 2he century and what should the u.s. be doing about our own energy securitynd independence in that regd? >> energy is cal for lots of le dds qiod alikvou crmp hwrgn beat imeou efforts. the u.s. has, through the power of privatentisncered a wh ofal it eakiheac islaonucotr tn sd th opportunity. we should do it responsibly. we should look at the environmental impact of course, aloosowhshould chargeaheadn agto l sioa

whether it's in counterterrorism, counter insurgency or energy production because you buld a more bee.trr stem d t iflk r idr r , etrlegiate networks and links and i'd like to see tat decentralize more and more and with natural gas and other types of energy, we can do at onatno tno inahothe of epit for the next of administration, whoeve that might be. another example of energy, talk about how you empower people through this thnology, ug cietorbeind doavenegyldou wit r how do you connect to the rest of the global community? and eyry.goes t understanding

soasaullr stafison era ie y' objective? they want t isolate those communities. they want to keep out western education, lberue eywt kp n ths r te ey ncntrol those villages so our strategy of belief should be just the opposite. how do we open up these mmunities to theworld? af pe o ef faord probably six or 7% are on the electric grid in afghanistan. a complete and utter failur to provide the power o ghils. thladin al itwsrdn afghanistan and

that son will scorch you. there are enormo opportunities there and went to empower a village with eney, whats the first thg thvilles wto eyt etelon d wtota h agexor twa eteirs. they want to get a satellite link in there. there is a great afgn entrepreneur who has gotthe ghoramset ianinseeset toalgu. i d ee broadcast of oprah, 20 yrs of oprah reruns. everafgh vil amp e n. aur] >>awess are kind of interrelated and it regards the u.s. ties. i have redtt1n

w dwe ide fl .d out cl et for one flight for saudi families, 106 families i believe wallod out. thrter aac si d ustt. otsiothan for the u.s. sortie relationship, sortie seemed to be the financial wherithatohe ucn het 16 e ho brsell sorties, and yet we seem to say that the sorties are our allies against this fight against all terrorisin theworld. eym inalpp oranrewd tarroso onighas we tliyoe referring

to was from a sdi oil family here and their frien and i kndgohivymperct sdh thasuntag. dit o th saudi's are a critical ally in the counterterrorism fight. they also i believe pose a political, competive challen ant taohol thudidy little to help us against al qaeda and their affiliates until may of 2003. whis tat rt causatwh'l --qastd satas dedi ia t saudi's responded and did a 180 when that happened. i took a trip to saudi arabia to t wtepmierof

te. thasn was at the state department. the message was to do more to fight al qaeda. and wp eeve iicw atond wame sit advisers for president bush at the time. we were kept waitintwo or three hoursnd finally he ed rlout ht t a up o ysg ledes . aj lost two men in a firefight with al qaeda. we change the tenor of our scussion. efivunersmudi's are inceasily apntheayaey role in stopping the latest al

qaeda attacks. the second underwear bomber. e sai's d an nt iha bee lilcet. a lot of the madrassas and pakist that are fueling the youth to go into afghanistan and joined the al aee t anereth plf th wahhabi is not just a religion, it's a political ideology and i think it is in direct competition if you will wo oib vws o i k hotahe . a td habit weaneles ial qaeda and their affiliates but just like we compete against communism, think we can take murer athlogy on --t agaselnc

quen do dne t threat? where's the spectrum? a terrorist enemy over here, political competitors here, those folks that might betu osivlinnd d u alo t em? >> ft ald av c i just know that they were important saudi citizens including the royals that were here. be going to schooluti jt have t yren a erly >>e have a relatively sheltered life compared to the rest of the world and the united states. what is your view on homegrown terrorism a how wehae to at oeelnc veose osal hie or ean >> paul, thanks. good question. more and more cases of this.

the fort hood examplefrom 009, s ofoteic k. lithirnd re, ee noge eeofeligion, fedom of expression, legal immigration into our country is essential to who we are. atreluwet ngri aca lt er c institutions. we must always keep that in mind and weust always welcomed those who want to come hear who n contribute i li anso m akowe eitsce mitspaulho illg example. when i went into afghanistan in yofrs tnsf 20, i had two cual linguistic skills that

i didn't have. they performed heroicly. mudetho rpeople talkoe owajados e e shibo ac am pretty torqued that we have allowed al qaeda and others to define the lexicon of this war. we disparaging refred to diownt eron tiofy warrior? i can't think of anything more unholy. let me answeyour questionn ,ehoeg tt owantj immigrants. you have white americans americans if you will that have been caught up in this.

nost affiliated with al qaa t all sort arofis owri ikbo filif ns itiganwwe k lie it important that we don't default to this concept of orwellian, pervasivesurlae. of ugrn tno 'seaanwe v merye ha is unblinking eye. it is not an impact it concerns me, given my emphasis on civil liberties r e illceut tc a cal clergy, the local store owner, the teacher, parents, families, neighborhoods, omti hae ilie lolafoement, local

civic leaders, to helpblunt butereren tt akurc rns t ssted llcek. beielnc -a sample line know is nypd. they have done a very good job in the big and complex city other parts of the city af abou elnc t me. i k f from complete. we need to do a much better job. the second part of that education and that is one reason to latthe en ictr adan les ere risks are and where threats are in intelligence and the value of these trusted networks that i talk about. widddetbom

y t a diplomat or something else is one question in two when you talk to young people today who might be interested in goi intt 'satyoit haou gruio ret iheok me degree. i was raised in a small town n gegia. anmerrea, ac eye m wrfom vinment, an environment where i was encouraged to read, to learn, to explore intellectually and also ic. top it whe wog tr ot inth him. and o, in this wonderful

childhood, i was exposed tohe warren county br wa.hbtoi ide b dfelin e with books, particularly american history and the american revolution, irregularare, u ro. thanwary yun enasplg of eo and i wrote to the cia when i was 10 or 11 and got a response fromsome very non-beauct in a. n inet w ies growing on some notebook paper. they sent a formal business letter, thank you and please reapy at a later date. an . waje a ata21

an.caitam i edewthd we to a different office and reapplied in that time i got an. mof s omioen i think by many d fa tr ha vriiy rvtoo nation and in our family and in that community a lot of men wenow, i mbhereig ho othoeat uafrghond ey were gng to vietnam. couple of them had come back. so was this intellectual sens miodchnd a sense o -- is a s o mmy. ar as,wtu ta service. it was intelligence service. was really drawn to that with

all the james bond books and all the movies of hthe was isanst. atwajuaw ipt ngk it w atca an i exceeded my biggest boyhd dreams, and i am forever grateful to the cia and t the fovmatoortynintots ti atvi, h rv hope that is central in the book. i had a journalist a few day ago ask me if i wrote thb thcarfom w who ithha this book is basically a note of than a my attempt to inform due,i'ck ten ibanf

on choolboys that are ou there that are considering serving their nation through the intelligce service. anwh telyounpeop dr, at tis coiti georgia and lead our nation in a war after something ashorrible as non-11 an i s m tis reenuuy, et si remarkable woman and president bush, then i think that dams are important, and that is hat whr gome v peod ag,ca aha e raocti ati there are so many ways we can contribute, a that is what

would encourage them is. yolfg chng ththirt >> are you ever concerned about your safety cracks that is a pretty dangerous mission. how didouroteoulf re tngutn s heoven personal safety? the cia, the screener applicants. there was a rigorous process. teg,illal tghallkinds of ycgiinth cuccklyh inn thnva o eyth process. then once you get through that, for me it was about 18 months of thlsanr enigorous tag. if htoplh ai t cfio

eovea t andestine world. and so that is one aspect of it. the training was very good i thght. tasdeftof unndth unurlawabi rtt. mesosety tc, driving, aggressive driving, shooting, just a whole range of different tack ticks and procedur thatmednd ennmy he

how do you maneuver through that? particularly if you have a core national spotlight, e of the thoe. ld yan lor ot le esna rind yitre at getting with volunteers, people that might call in to n american office or the sea o otherttey r tthco woe tb w tr roffted ysu no've got

important information that i'm not coming to meet you at that facility. i will meet you this night, this time, thistreconer.erouet ak dg i orin etanme iud kee etngb tradecraft do you employ, what pocedures do you put in place? and i did tat scores of times. n,hose otne faih hohaie ya pl of examples of the life of the surface when you're out meeting agents, recruitingnts, ea a aifrm ts o offn ea antg aur] -- and i real enjoyed that. [laughter] tha you >>'rlc

quons. ha >> the increased use of power what are the obstacles to getting there and how do we myo rd,porose obstacles? tthr cimth exivabutnte the point about some degree i was making earlier about th strategic need for the u.s. to taraalt ong ilitary poer. aofxaof there is a progr, i hope they have this program where they rtarn er a usc aory as hdosi ar of the ambassador's

w elm d lp t terterrorism law, rty rnro dcoeha kind great resources city of denver will have legal the u.s. governme will have. s.tos ndaury small or it was. eyvi g sce lesoh opartners. other examples of statecraft our commerce and aiculture and thingshey should bdoing. juhels tu.tth wlkboofow s in about americans and our culture and everything that we bring whether it is private-sector such as the m oknubsh at w w

all aspects of america. how do we tnk about this on a stratec level and project into these areas we have secud or me uleo e me e rord on't hit ld be able local solution because what our friends and pottial allies in manes tafft ndia tt dautnddind that way we know how to project our power better whether it is hard or soft or smart power which is a cbionf both ou e g elehere that has worked, columbia, very

successful counterinsurncy. utt heomased yebuse rr. great progress. indonesia and the philippines, singapore. very positiv examples of how we took a hard power a sow ncwiurie ththco the q&a. let me thank you for the opportuny to spe with you. great questions and i wish you all the best and inoin el d on k [aus >> is ere a nonfiction of 4 or ok yike toeeeareon ok-sorrth a

attwitter.com/booktv. [applause] is iso ex ths my very first book. and my very first and probably only book signing. met s sro thisdu the book "american grown" is everything i would have imagined. i wanted the book to b beautiful and i think the

piures are absolutely autil. erckt , your b h . they actually go fooled in by the pictures and couldn't put it down and started looking through and thenstd al reg ndn t th u iwhe peheook s juhe sryf the itusr and how it came to be and how we had our ups and downs and trials and tribulions but also story of un adess unga iwai soxcnt full gardens that are happening in the middle of new rk with some school kids. so t story ofhe w tre lyimrt tbout oey t

initiatives which is let's move and it isll about getting our kids healthy so the book shares that jouey and se t at g orohe thlian iks prcao. gives a few tips. am not the best garden in ti pk opndand a great team of he a marer cme inhire these two schools have been with us from the beginning and that was one of the things we said when we started exploring whetr or n we couldla ga oe h w htoe gg kouldar in and understand and engage in that process because that is what i've learned in my own life. when i iolve my kids in the

dtn higout e. ena rmrkand th iold thieand that process and they accepted it a lot more. we have seen that with these kids these kids are wking ithe erbadeas ess he oamie heg cng th e ats these kids have been amazing and they have been a pleasure. ey trkndto the white house. ted esin ge matter of 10 or 15 minutes or sometimes 30 minutes if they just get it done so we couldn't do this without them and i a d y a anouor helping me.

i want to thank you all for and coming out. i just thrilled and i he monrsoud hond yr mm anheo a healthier generation of kids at some point. there are some good recipes that areasy to follow and they're ettyd. whe e chs. k soh l ar soup here. [applause] ibonat]

[inaleveio >> thats my firstokfiti- [inaudible conversations] >> you guys want to ce around? anyou.yr ok there you are. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaible conversations] anu g.is so good to e you ys [iibonat] >> thank you. we couldn't do this without you. so gdo u. ohne.

thyo [inaudible conversations] >> tenar w u? you so much for co [iibconversations] >> i remember! nablnvti

ibonat] ud crsns >> thanks for taking the time. nk. ud crsns naleveio

are you a gardener? s nice to see you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conrsations]

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ud conrsns conrsatns] >> how are you? it is so good to see you. [iibnsaon >>y d. it is wonderful.

hat gngss] [inaudible conversations] yre 8? cet. gdeo th? anyou? you are 11? what are you guys interestedn ud crsns nc the girls went to their i tno [iibonat]

ud crsns leveations] >> booktv sits down with marji ross, and susan weinbe, publisher of public affairs s re fco blngldroa ari tl tdeow f trind at the jacob j. javitz convention center in new york city this is about 40 minutes. span olo watching booktv on

ic sin po industry annual convention held at the jacob j. javitz convention center. we are pleased to be joined by est red republishing. we want to talk about books coming up this season. tetyaofhemecat with don m btt b prly p t investigators reporters still working in america today. manerdd hnl ng themon arme they worked at the philadelphia

inquirer and time magazine and vanity fair. they have been tracing the story atfob iom and iondhe really give you the context so you don't see these stories as isolated events. eyin cxtwh ha hintco odtind y get the cumulati effect of things congress has done and that countries have done and been allowed to do. ullads fft whou acad onevn full story and pictures. the chapter on the end of tintheres icly d

actuarial -- if it went by the same laws as the pension fund people would go to jail. ppg ens t s supplement than the median value is $70,000nd at the end of the boitll -k s gat assets because without a middle-class there really is no amera. >> when is that book being published? wbe o a binng ugorth pital conventions. >> marji ross, is the betrayal of the american dream something you would publish?

>> it mightelle iner of etor tidoi a cant t a positive party-line. the solution to the problem may be quite different. ce irm wth o mupth t he the opportunity to improve their lives and their future and andcld for their children and omt vaaghe es oen ea the middle-class is very important to everyone and probably pretty important to t upcoming election. okw. umr e hene e ver

lerofioo very insightful. a lot of shocking new information. he conducted 200n ies aprin inatoffreoe who had supported barack obama in 2008 and given him mone and contributed to his campaign and worked hard to get him elective sdthcaaign trail. what he found was a surprisingly lk whh seimeme among people h onseeswa wh h d a whit over his head. it was too big for him and he wasn't prepared and his

rsitmb w d moniker of the amateur. one of the common threads in our ofce tnguter prenndote s nal ed klein said barack obama may go down in history as the amateur. > onof p uom eyalnttofa to s t isr tsay that they are all arguing that he does not deserve to be reelected for one reason or another from tking s.ar ofre w bir sa> yooat bra

of acan re by a public affairs and the amateur by regnery do you hope your anblolinfluencpublic o rt of the national conversation but when marji ross says the theme is n just puan drase vey as pe tee context and the issues and get involved and think about what is going on a more informed way. i wod hit wouldfft tinos lsecaueout ngicon ls atffect people's live. >> our books complement rather than contradict in that a lotf

rtararnt te a ewadtemuch as edate and inform. at regnery our books are more likely to take a position to be vwe bour di tpre d he end combination can be beneficial no matter what you believ hearing someone whis passionate aut theirointf ndplti thath p a lot of information and data and allow you to make up your own mind. >> let's move off policy. this is new titleomout bylifa. wythki hi wt i call serious

fun. the first sixty yearsr a mwe, of a ery therican heritage dictionary and he has done lot of commentary on hwenoohat w o reitlyo. this book is really a social story of a bl guarantee. the rise of this word and what does it mean andt doest t us mitsa t yoinbout -- when you think about this word what was introduced to american culture by norman ma19 icitas t

psur w people were surprised that its prevalence has grown from that recent time and there is no questi that it ctan s ealend nnion pso political lives. i don't want to get into his arguments on that. read the book for tt but it is really l fndt ds withmanual con day. >> did you pick the title of that book? >>pick theitle and belyse te the word in the title

>> a new book out -- >> phyllis has not done a book e not neoosi d ian i of nservative movement, a hero to men and women on the right and very passionate about dng a k authehun he oel fr yt fobare requiring churches to pay for abortions or contraception to what to do in military cemeteries or what military aplains can do. seioof t fer end ginder arnt h co-author is ci aerh.ral government is ng tine

thelio ions oodush bloto no m war on the church as religious freedom. your freedom as the founders intended to practice what you wantoavregie exdeatpae rtthti dioue. there is nothing wrong with religious beliefs being part of the public square as lg as at ty t is allowed to practi iquon r isa tist hot topic r this election. something a lot of people on the right are concerned about. that is why we e rushing it anis cinouthis e e ng f. government feels there is no higher power than the fedal governmentather than looking

a higher power. ck s broke herip yr wo wiheon b e be in on tour. she has a weekly radio show. daily radio spot on 200 rad io a a vxc t g v rote bk bause it is so important to the future of the country. >> we i lynpoch eissnewe s workplace. a fantastic story. bit of history from the 1970s. the first thing i loveo tell le is tt ieewi ch othe ve

hendf icff wt that artichoke doing on your head? >> we love this photo. sohotofromhe at ir. u boncor. is a photo of her at first job as a secretary at newsweek. o d cen e s ts to o lot of discrimination and the women of newsweek were confined to their positions. they could note riders or editors. there was aomt ensw wl-coge heilhtemnd re lerf ew. argr a were big peoe in that media world and found in that

chcrinioloos weas srttoav scna s ailnt!0ecrimatwa a it s dhath cover story me out. you had two sides of the story right there. one of the tngs that prompted thems thco sryn ws rzed b te a b 't ofnse thty noeady for a cover story and they hired a free-lance woman journalist. they didn't feel there people were ready becausehe reem thoras wnvved awoinvo a alk.

putting the book together started years ago. women were taking a lot of material home and cam e ghamtiro ome hert ve to write a narrative. to read the narrative she started to get in touch with people a that l to talking to meeo a pt toer a rati omenurntt weo way hadn't known about the suit and were rediscovering it because of their concerns about the culture and the way they were bein treated so it aoasssue owh ednd en chais on wgemeein sscio see these two back-to-back. o women who areery tske roleodot

nho t en loof tngs and the lot of politics. they would agree it is healthy forngen tmef a re aoustup ghy mht tn different things and something young women need to do. there is not onenswer or point of vw woanren er fenndineso n kiut ay thhi >>e tooi we are talking to two women publishers here. what is theublishing wor ve f wtn p al a? ar t t o an marji ross. >> i have not faced that.

even at the beginning of my career always felt if i was the hardesperking person in th roomhe oornityo lo of op asme, you are the head of the conservative publishing house. surely conservatives don't believn uld yre andsi ttg. beeit i >> i have not felt in the book publishing part of the industry that women have had a lf rtunies,omer ci tttojobs.aylyinelin one of the differences is are you in an industry with that has that flahouse cture rallpuomn de tfrhe culture

and corporate culture. some parts of journalism do have that frat house cultu. oriein jal tnk obouth woin fmsho hauer rat its oua culture that a certain bravado is glorified and that creates aiflt rot om. >> wanutr,at obe obenstein. >> e under the reagan ranch and used to be very young. she was formerly the par anthpuanty hete org. ve aomheke e is on fox and friends and 0 ride me regularly and is very

articute in her defense of nstiel.aveals d m h urs this heiroococer s me e thi called be divisive president. coming out after the convention deuttiheigprontras therose ngin lehe and getting beyond these partisan fractures contrasting that atuahaed nd his promises with e're cssarrend latihaerre. how that has come to be and a role he played in his administration has played in dividing the country 1in oupll ve aha h wke

nsviorrdnd solving some of the problems we face. >>arji ross getting an offer eg. ls lbos to h ovn span usse book lovers watching your show and dedicated peoplededicated lifelong portt apancehose aos orn o ts s s ervekad is a powerful driver of books and are authors get a little bit longer me on earth to explain what r ec.c a s t is av pfean. fox news, c-span and talk radio. >> susan weinberg, where do try to place your orders?

teeoonhe stlle wuet thtewn get people working for books, nonfiction, they are looking for nonfiction books and looking to ta ahat t haed sanic us. many different ones, all different kinds, they worked very well and the other thing i entnetn ernetrlthnti platform starts talking about it that is great too cause it will geticked up and be used siws.inked and in a lot of ddnhe more

traditional outlets that is a winning combination. >> publishers used to talk about word of mouth. how do you do th? entnetvid e best way, the best new way and the best predictable way to generate the kind of wo of edbl that if it happens onhe -- >> do your authors ever appear npr >> they do. that can b aerl plfo. ro picpectu covas as well as liberals listening to npr. i listen topr sometimes. i a l ows

only sells the conservatives. there are a lot of people independent or on the left who are interested int auor t about our books. [talking over each other] >> is this a book he would promote? -- and admire them. one thing that is frightening about this book is igr rkweal hc oury t okhat hitting all

kinds of different markets. >> another new book coming out hnki.ic >> bgrhy the man and not simply his time on the supreme court and a part of h joen, new york times magazine. and the aroia pi tn inid as rea he may have decided. and it really captured something and he didn'likeld sri foll fy

reisd ey foyoo e bap hen'leave a memoir organized his papers in a way -- aot people and very much interested -- who was bill rehnquist as a young man? a goldwater republican? what brought him to washingt? hodeo t crt diseers eoswa overtly conservative chief justice and the idea that he brght a certain partisanship to the courtwhich may refle veny me a tt the current

corridor -court started with his lone insider point of tno a piur h t opety n idalct wdo it matter? this will happen anyway? the big money is in control. why should i vote? the last argumentou can use for peoplehoreti ouot trent tis emd te jues the supreme court are selected for a lifetime appointments. >> are you going to say something? iisyowoick up r might read the book. i object to the title because

net shou chief justice or the chief. [talking over each other] >> it is a pfe. t he isagrhyithrtarntvi. probably not the one that we would embrace or agree wit that is thehi aut ove yr. a wide friday to read a wide variety of things. take 3 to books and take the opposite pointf ew. aee t se ngh heeen ey rooiied me pe lng tunrs th more deeply and every author in these categories truly

wants to affects peoplend have some ilucendok tio md. abselgh i to mi my authors not to be so interested in converting people from the other side that they forgeto talk to ei al oeath- biph b obama. i don't want to imply that at all. this is a book by david limbaugh who is t belng ar regn histk esin liy ll haigopor po do as well. est henising out this week and

hiinfrisnt of view that the president has worked to destroy the fabric of atnatesndra and a lot of amande aross, lot of these books are and try president obama. due date eh contain different inat thoks?tiet hefily cta caeautilkeson point of view and cover different things but we are very careful to try to make sure we are not repeating ourselvefor aying the ddinfft es grfssfere sets of the market place. no higher power is probably

d gi tolerance whereas eleased the divisive president may play more to folks who are conceed about things like the sappnc tid a y anhecuy st a wtheiexivthn capital is a great qualifier at theeo or good qualifier. onbuches r interested in the athiaderiple what has he done for the past week for years and what does it eld? for whether be >>ouf ooou brt pviav au'sesn big print.

i wantedo ask you about that and susan weberg, wanted to ask you abo thi tie. iort p s lendelththofok? ut the book that we attribute the best seller line, america, what weroooee t pos help inere g rif ddla sins 1980 which would be sins president reagan came aboard. they were really reporting and veating the esti t neeoknt it cctui io a . bok me ond was the number-1 bestseller and people ag enocsmember that book andhe

--'tllnk tou ane oe less losing ground has only become more serious since that time and they felt this election coming ere eded to beited a t tgect whapp s 1980 to the middle-class? >> ask about the pictures on the front of the book. otl.he ctures areo onwsthh sa ntoe ok ats us speaks to me. it is a way to capture the theme of the book and build raort wi thearketplacetef ngt inkoo. iathin wer wand i better look at this book and

see if what i suspected was true really is true. >> can i ask the queson mnhobesitt avan rks on our list. osndraly a in a tki trre aed to a candidate. that is the difference too. >> a lot is about what happened the last fr years. >>t gd on t o b a romney? michael -- [talking over each other sio liksnhop we often s thsi lutin

an t o, wha great success when there's someone from the other party in opre psiatandse. feorvat r guthr complain about or something they are worried about at ts awhy people more th povek omy.a o people say i don'd to buy the book. i know think that's so i am done. not necessarily going b fr binct idobberete ist fou? >> we do often say at regnery it was bad for the country but good

useig,e lo ainmiy ? e edhe boston globe book. that book has a lot to inform people in the early part of e year about his full biography. looatthhithat hes tay tiinatis in each case, this tour will be superseded in the news cycle too e ee peleraer book to be of al oeath >>y veesng addition tohe mix and tactically we ve to become vetera istheoo bot ti which will

take longer. pes m pd t different mea, diene. thnest iouusess isrinisch >> the interesting thing about instant e-books is contrasting their value and role tms le pis usir matoanedns if you are going to invest the money and time you have a considerable amount of time and moned prot tma a stmaoosuof full-blown book? publishers have to figure o

how one of those stance many aneato ne ma esjump on the instant many book because they pvide -- fill tfstfo aredeleioye top d of it in terms of putting out a full blown book. esci rmt b inkhat quite rong information and helping people analyze what is going on i don't think publishers figured out yet how they wk in terms of the dee thesnted oth

year. you have to look at where am i adding value or doing mething -- >>ilyobe an bbos? n oot - op cup o] we have found the right one. it is cerinly part of the media ldspets at hdo aple cases, we released books as e-books rather than going througthe whole cycle of all tecainha s h t a bn pr lle boryo stthhaee i co inc where we have had a book that is very timely and we'rgoing to put this out leo wre d tseand get itn t rkat

ys bk othe shelf takes several months. we released a couple books just ngss bksndery rkacarof obace one was on energy policy by newt gingrich was very articulate on the need for a cprsi icnepo an middle of the campaign. this is an important part of the discuss cd $50allon stealano] doing well.

>> a couple years ago at this show at book expo america, you putet a o. [tngr o] i hos. th iso much happening with technology in this position and what is going ond everye acicanme have to be able to blrsre b ses ouw re d soin that is timely. the book forum of the inqui reports, tha wal ottes kd about using ank

as-- lf tacop in ehat we al we care about authors and care about these books and wants to reach people. >> we are out of time. i iesntf rey u wgktuhe >> you are watching an interview from booktv's recent trip for new york city for book expo america. publishing industry's annual oooaca.ionis >>t e yhi summer booktv wants to know. >> the first thing i'd do is look for anythinmiae had ll i cobeean wt . innocent is terrific.

sue grafton is one of my favorites. n'owt in she hasnother- heea a n't want to talk to anybody. i rllye sts d ti meg irest yi s me away from where i am. >> for more information on this and other summeris u.dikfr . gis k, twitter.com/booktv. >> you just saweveral programs theooktch okanse wke tcroamiavee u

today and catch up on publishing news. we are also on twitter. fall wasn book. ..

>> we had pulled into the refueling that morning around 30 a. enrm cndofr he s c h ts oug ad cob ckta eft 17 dead and 37 injured. >> i was turn back to my desk youlfel fad a.mt tstr qy and violently thrust up into the right. we seem to hang for a second in the air. the ship was doing this tistin thlitswn tell. i bee rsof desk into the ship stopped moving and i could stand up. >> more with kirk lippold sunday at eight on c-sp'sq owpo fsoe e onrg eaper

inhe es o at the recent supreme courterm that ended last week. they will talk about te health chjue rt deth and why te fe po be b fets an half.u >> i'm art spitzer, legal director of the local office of the aclu. d mturorhe an na l ofoncwthe. ar ntom is adam liptak. adam covers the supreme court for "the new york times." he's been doing so for four year butas alongior jo acoboin terin fm a, ich he returned for a w degree in 1988. in eight. in 1992 he joined the times corporate legal deprtment,

detipry,g gaind la es reerhbc m ovthecneal d meepr ri legal issues including the confirmation hanks or justices ben riondononlito, anain ticagn jce thjuesse oing records. his work has also appeared in "the new yorker," "vanity fair," rolling stone, and many other publications. isuog tue t en'seen with the "los angeles times" since 1981 and covered thcourts since 1986. also in recent years he has been the choti"'ure hehehorf okcall inghhein t hnp,nd

o writes monthly supreme court column for the american bar association journal and offers regular leg commentary on national public radio's talk hes lut ltionpo. io "esal te" id t emu. ino lawyer but that's a secret, and he certainly -- you certainly wouldn't knofrom readi them and listen to them. si19.owebea pocs.rmand he was deputy national editor in arge of domestic issues, a national political editor during the firsttem of hecinn nitin h a opanto hof heurtoor i05 cin h rt in 2006. next ohim is jesse holland with associated press. he egcin ot

aparl07 prusov l ars jualoion at the white house and on capitol hill, and before that covering state capitals in new york, south carona and other ts. b ibacul itdier arasto.cn published in 2007. and today his his wedding anniversary happy anniversary, jesse. we off to calm his wifebut e tok. athe aavred hek imjoan biskupic, who now overs the supreme court for reuters. 19prus t"satdythe courtssince sue t thng astopt b that at legal affairs

writer for "congressional quarterly." along the way she earnedhrl eegeto a co, ias reine ofuic igraphy, and is the author so far of two biographies, sandra day o'connor, how the first woman on the spinkler becme its most influential justicei 05 da oc mrca inhe a tionsue t ictosc in 2009. and going to maksurehe tells us where she is it anywhere on sotger ev otast booj te4 smlve prcoor o our panel, and should be able to get some interesting observations. prinno opl o

rs l pe ond t efar0 arbhdcb section on courts, lawyers and the administration of justice, which concentrates on matters pertaining to courts, court rus, the relationship betwee ass awreip et,l alg mins ar. seon o focus on improving access to justice for everyone in the district of columbia. we are pleased this year to be spooredy erns yoo mes he. orl nd r ouy,yha ji the bar but u don't have to join the sections. i encourage you to join at least usef and nees ok re, lots of a g noedngaafi nti mmy. nvmen ior ers ago led to mike and asked to moderate this panel.

so, aegv oe me min o, ess heed. to t as questions, you may be thinking about what you would like to ask asthe panel goes forward. we are being covered this afternoon by c-span, and if youdntwbck or orienti doasaqet and finally, there should be aluation form i think sitting ifre,as f oadn c t esintae tre aurle s n' see them, then i guess there will be a stack, pick one up on your way out, or maybe someone wi come a distbute ui he og ayarte toauwhnaassth

edth advertisement for this pan, just in case anyone came because they want to see tony, has been without power since frdaynigh nad inhage nd dnahsue,ansds retsn alo tll atco'te hi . lti what's on everybody's mind. who's talking to jim crawford in srnhehe c and what's the si awsmripra anbndid ti o the subject. and just had an article in this morning's paper but it was about wen't t hilone y.ulay lik osto talking about this rapidly developing inside story?

david? adam? >>hie'tsh ai ebof da'vlyerhe t foeai're coaghamc er urtoanwolo hth thoughts. [laughter] >> let me second that motion. >>hoev the source for that st a d ni,s e ppth ucme gh 'svrrr t efouwhatapped inside the supreme court, particularly shortly after the decision. but there are a lot of peole on e right yo eer ed riin get ht pp ieye e t o roberts. jan crawford wrote a book about the court a couple years ago, and it's veryoosorc, a e ervebef sofro rebr

>>he phrase she used, better sources had quote specific knowledge ofhe deliberation, inretioft 'she ke o e est nd aa h sp olaw clerk, for example? >> the spouse of a law clerk? >> right. th coo ora daw c h o e w r? wrngajy y so les g told, i assume. i've nev been one. presumably to talk to other people spent ion't think tha is a good guss. ? aur] >>nkd. dera sopeeder ofsdt prs mepolein this room probably have been law clerks to the justices, and redberries against him, or some people might of been lucky enough to go to the dumen thaanw

aie o p tt thet wthes they basically did it by letter, by memo. this constant back and forth on not just the bottom line vote, ich t c i rtbu lot hde heolig s tile d isuapd t oe erve y is the hief justice john roberts probably left his options open as he presided over thcoerence about how he's wew xy y ft the taxing e. t ome se a ron ctta iah o an'l hard to imagine that an actual vote got switched per se, because any of us felt that even from oral ruenatn ewsg meundw t l i poiaon tg r. m ihhv es oatives that he was

very open on the question and was leaning against it. when he started to circulate his opion, as i say lots of inion, i couldt vim m drthbynct cathercaan lythh zewo nhe ne tenvti ftm rkoue on and against that probably by mid-may the chiefs are given a draft thatshowed where he was likely headed, a ws urneiv onta ou ul t w,saouata flurry of activity among conservatives in the press about how chief justice john roberts might be being pressured in some way. was he being pressureb est a aae r agum? s eireedso soinveempley plbl d'te a to the judiary committee for another 10 years. he's appointed for life. the ideas that the chief justice of the traint was som essud uer t j at,jct

bucerla adai wihaa doing. if they saw it in the switch but maybe, i frankly think it's unlikely that he outright said from the start i'm going to vote totrikthisown,ndn of udenmidsamd ju oonis ko y of document anyway because they a crashing up against the deadline and there certainly were signs within it that there wasome shifting on the rationale, but his pnon clco wuaque knate wa tay it'hv k f sute me i get somebody who actually at one point was completely in one drection and then switched inidstream and en wtn tho ren t itrti hat ei thy s ttu. uknow, most of what is the majority opinion as roberts

pretty much speaking for covas s uhe disse frothe kei wnn ht addresses justice ginurg a little bit, does not address the justice robes writing almos atal gthh of e est ion urninveli h ly ld have come into play. since then and it was upheld under the taxg power. so it's avr nsuin, hnkderai rmt stgirgteu ulhin that liberals on the court had lost rather than one. until the very end. >> and youan look at tese la sttedp f

r ionpss ths llalgo t leg y of us know what's going on upstairs. but now we're seeing aks come out about deliberations. that's very rare. iuullepf rmn hebo0 co w a csi th'sarnger in that building. >> i'm still curious why you all think -- what you all think is dot us.etaareullyhsn hrmaid k do met? >> well, -- [talking over each other] spicwl aol wou have cla icutsh an si ce sue.t lei ese ilea ambiguity. >> there's a nice phrase in that says lots and lots of people knew this which is a way to

yet.ct your sources. an - nengt'al wit ngprt.h all we know is, when you're st oisrees.gobe pec spicion on this panel that she is heard from justices thselves as opposed to law clerks, for example? >> we wouldn't be right to spulate. gh ne'ea fm. >> second. >> no speculation here. it seems like almost every enr hti ar enumhat lil sine o

ot e rareawh political decision to the conservatives are now very upset that was a political decision. does anyone think that it is enossithrts eda eai,h ded tspis 's eio tidcis >> well, go ahead. >> no, i'm asking you. everyone said political decision -- toe pig hmdecision madeor t siat na f political trauma. all kinds of possible reasons, political with a small p. that presumably a lwpr cin t amw elheadionre from what the law professor might come to. >> i don't think it was a polical decision the way you -- i think roberts had the view

and said it bfre, thae urd o pole of o hrewsa sotiti b foi he didn't think it could be upheld under the commerce clause on which is the way it was mostly argued. he idn't think the medicaid exnsion could b upl thsaae,rue co epedast that was a reasonab way to decide this case. and it avoided the court striking down a major act of -- thatsr n u gury ice6i inudt oaoiatthtds'tst pic it strikes me as what thinks he should do, which is to give the loss the benefit of the doubt and ifthere's tion assor ldthoe pht nds noer gury. wj lka

cr esident, get a, described a summit times. the signature achievement o his domestic agenda. so ther was alahig coss wic i rd itunow r pe question. we are sitting in for a bunch of lawyers and law students who all sort of get that maxim of up shif cama t d t ive lepres oh ichnernd f t bue allg its he felt the law dictated. imean i give hi he fi tdo oftiv eeeeel reaction. and i wonder whether you guys as pele who cover the supreme court, if it's in part of you job tsipr, s e

calidlta e saw at >> well, i think you do. that's what you did cover the decision and you give the asons why the court said that it did what he did. ani think th thas u wa otl,tkaou little bit and story today is, you know, it was all from the left at first that this is going to be a political decision and a partisanne ttikow el w llcm r th teomhefa ats vrdve ec legislation. the public is very split on it. thitlee a poll out today that thur tighind nu oe nk codier thing.

i think that that certainly does show that it's something at is pushed, and probably should be pushed into the polical d eowao tui,he nowh oerwo is t eri. >> one point about polls. my favorite pool memo was one of the yesterday i think from pew but i wouldn't sear to it. 41% of acaonno erbeeaca ci gh]d etlo ob d vipo in we did, the wire services and the newspapers did a first rate job in explaining thdeong uno thwe unos anthwre o g. and i thought that my first analysis very much walked through exactly the points are making making. and evenotgfo

ci jcemeat f era siai n ic pohesa susceptible to multiple interpretations, it's your duty to go with the one that works. it's your duty to defer to congress if he can. abpoca me tryanother comment yooufhaallo coy, y c lat eces, sort of based on what we thought going in, you might say eight of the nine pa ba democratic congresssd, and signed by democratic president, opposed entirely by republicans. justesedosrkew rpublican at real0p ted ymra congres signed by a democratic president.

only one justice voted in way that you wouldn't have guessed, looking at his aroun ublinpoe, sosestmehs onuoto say is that made a decision that is political, it should be john >> the se t lhage s erw leuncuy get a legal matter, and i wonder if any of you have felt that it was part of your reporting job to try to exlain or have tried to expla. antai hnmasacht lat,fa know. there was window care about the states power to d that. and yet here was ts major estion about whether the feral government could do anvrtknthffce c jce

fifegetioi einhat difference. and, of course, ou guys had 185 pages worth of opinions to try bu t shihay oue ren bu i h t rihisu htsn o n itatr to ov or is it something that people don't think about, don't care about, don't need to know? >> i recal doing a piece, and i cotif rte meg atd noth rarue,cha erkiolbra the due process sort of liberty, which might be the basis on which to attack a state issued a mandate. ma oeogh aink at distinction respopco cue ifn between what the limits on a state and i could mandate and the federal and i could mandate

might b. ge innsmgexy t t. eyld t ie, innce alnihy han i o i would write back the federal has different powers and the states, but not a very satisfying rationf bt i h ito wxta's atswk,omars bies to inb ou the point about how much do we explain or not explain the often we're sort of limited in terms of what we aba . thpbli ais ins at ink t lollo thmma, b t ngeroul the more legal issues that were undergirding the more popular political question there. most becse with such a long ru a epead a ca fllngal whadrnieti

ise ndn t times when we tackled federal issue. most of us who lived through the '90s, which was the big federalism era in the supreme ensica etws agree t dcuoe. instn totht exain e commerce clause and the other federal powers. >> we were publishg the pictures of rosco felberad as iic t'sn cedthpr court. i've been asked about it by literallyeveryone i meet who knows what i do. dsapteev, htei otri, fepanmu ita from editors spent and bob, if his paper is to be believed, called the case exactly right.

>> mparat do h o foise? mabrh.leata ou dted all the brief? did yo really need to educate yourselves on how the affordable to act, all 900 pages of it, works? ill'tw tli? w wrk iw legal issues, and that's what i felt like we needed to know. we have lots of ople at the paper who do know aoo itksrio bu, w heef osge huge thins that communicable i thought in a way almost became unmanageable. there were so many briefs. ere ss ifrio e. thest t ahe stpot, tne

t will shape their arguments on both sides. there were a million briefings ti yitere gouan gr.iroanlb o r w wll haa prty good idea what the issues we here spent i don't think our practice is terribly different from the justice. rath r. adtbef reathfsmoc tirdhres from interest groups who have something interesting to say but it don't read every single annika's breeze, norothe ic. tobsbepedcaby ti go jwe iulme d stus oonn -e d foat tdid o that's when you have another judgment question of do you go back to some of these briefs? to go back to the or arguments?

tht d. oat i un ainges yoe, enck js to the oral arguments and actually just a government brief to look at ther three arguments on commerce clause, ncsary ta obee ond veu w e abll werod s ta ma h wl est ueu when the time comes to distill the document that we get. ..

untionoomedicd expsionwa thng w er i gotot o g siking down that entire law. i remember about a month ago saying tha sai tmyug atho trengto thidllowou yo sael ing my homemade example, suppose congress passed a law saying america famili e reiredoehildr ax pty sahaottu' nsti gomeout ir bue ndart ifou don't have children, you pay taxes, that's sort of the way our aneid,idt ie r?

id,t' tp itoio ut.i [laughter] >> too bad you didn't put it in the paper. wed re dioaysomeingth weur mng hod tayo? >> i think they were dramatically different for two set of us, right? me of us were i the courtroom which turned out to be a huge acly ,i, dendave f coero hedin, thas old school. we were up there for the better part of the hour while the rest of the world was ruingdown eirmast. aur] >>iddese st. looeatt s . i haven't ard it yesteay. >> um, one of the things we did

before monday is that we had set coorr tweld e weer noe t10t omi er'rtte oon but we wanted to make sure we could get that opinion out as fast as possible. so we stationed one person inside the press rm, and i thecr --heiso was going to be. >> can you reveal the code words? [laughter] [ltew man and fne th oll ts, mandate, premature. and be once mark got to the correct part of the decision and saw it, he relayed those code words me peattk ca in het

refee totally misses what he says. so i wanted to be sure i completely understood what mark was saying, that weres haed wn,e,nu d w f--tu, atid s cisi. heead the majority opinion, i read the dissent, and we ran from there. >> i should give the audience a ttle brod. in ouom tre llwhhs t inuceacacg stic. and often -- wel usually they get up and leave as soon as the decisions are finished being bussch thewvouhe er. t e'sosso one floor bel which h a speak e and you can hear the audio -- speaker, and you ca

hear the aud. and as the decisions arande out, tbl rm cela oco o umdo iouig laransmitting, i guess -- >> that's not quite true. they wouldn't allow you to take -- >> noecic >> tove t >> t talac, woris inkt t nominal, usual practice, but i don't know that people care so much. >> this was the first i can remember there was of a really itd beuspaddoin the sort of w is std a occi decision. they hand out the opinion, alan bocci works on a 5-4 vote, they sc.oudthn n thealni buery s tcc

ci fhet pras wherit was said but universities may use race as a plus factor, right? well, the reporters who had to thirinod say in78-19 b ivty o californ lost, turned out not to be tru so i thought all of us wanted to rush on this, but i wanted to look at the syllas a i'ou vhtesu htths ago ce he peyido , i stayed downstairs. adam and -- i mean, it was nice to be up the for history, but our web site wanted to pos ade, of t quy. hotn ter ike ae syllabus, lookedhrough and went back and called the desk and said post the storyn the tax power.

but it was a lotofun bse buat sof m . e'wa danrof making a fool of yourself by beg the first one up with the wrong story. >> well, and that was sort of e auty of bei in tr iatast ke bitc om . us tie un opn, i g-- the whole thing takes only about 20 minutes with him and justice ginsburg and justice kennedy reading. buif yersittin ere yoldhaefjuit crclou t if tivl ndbee spins all that out, then he moves on to e tax, the taxing lev here, yo sngreisott ihe ydo igal dre ane g squ lpwae maibecause

he gets to the point where he says the medicaid expanon is struck down, and unlike david i never thought they were going to faec'de ngsai tpeger o rendeywo't and i'm thinking, oh, my god, this is a huge thing, but then he immediately says, but there's ohs tea isa bu'sosik s yse gre a s youlget a way that was, frankly, much easier than what david and jesse had to do in the press room. gel y t sciwhste aur] rtalooth g roller coaster ride. [laughter] no on commerce clause, oh, wait, up on taxing, down on medicaid, wait, there's a w- itad winm.

twae of a t h erst. r, rt. thi think, unless i'm mixing you up with somebody else, but about all the criticism that solitorneveliam orerguan simedion eson a, out watnr fascinating story because i wrote something that said he may have lost on style point, but he won his case. everybody gave dveli metirle meesrtof tg the metaphor that he sort of caught in his throat and been unable to speak in the beginning tt he d n c baonatnd tos reotutef andton verrilli insisted on

keeping that tax argument in the case. and it made a very good presentation about saying if you taf t yn'etisawor it works like a tax and, therefore, it can be upheld like a tax. and paul clement didn't have a so tghtitne oseha evodotboowon cat the oral agument, very greatly overstated. but it ends up that his argument turns out to be the wier. asou all know, scotusblog is now doing a live blog on dcisi da a o sdhepoeyad

00oped iir veg amothee million hits the to their web site by about 1:00 that afternoon. does that fact change the job pe hnef,reo, the fact that opnshiiste they come down, or is that really such a different audience from yours that it doesn't matter? >> well, i'll add that it's atwe ay. aioo in ses sot semog while we're going to the dissent, i'm always tweeting at the same time. so it's, whi we don't have the specialized audience, we ha a buaty'ngsat rtoieag stitdiena >> so where were you that you could twitr? i guess you were not in the

press room with no eleronics? >> i w actuay inhere dit,ee ae ghe [lteat si >> to your larger question, it's really, of course,or a newspaper reporter's changed aneoe wath vely klhewao b ouatpe t w fe tanwr you know, it is really a hge difference. we aougetouttle bit, you k at asiti ul. w curule correct. you know, we sort of disposed of saying health care upheld because we thought it would be too much of a split decision, and is so we nthn a e thnddu mae ck k o

so t a t things, though you never thought in a million years you'd be thinking about -- silo ur oy foioed, ghthere us else s something -- anyone else has something to say about health care, maybe we shouldoven rng asreetls aur] anngsaaln sdbu haonday when he dissent inside the ariza s.b. 10case, the imgratca. deonoxe cin oproimat foentiet onned after the case had been argued. let me start with david. you started covering the court

yo bheis weaiv waisjurm siaor ise syo w i lot of normal alia. i did write i thought for 25 ar sio wne eral dnt stry y t's really scalia-lam baste one side or the other -- >> and i can tell you when it started. ten '87orneof his veryir te oplngut ere thae e independent counsel statute. other memorable scalia dissents, roamer v. evans, the gaygh ofor idea that he would go outside

the record and complain about president obama's o order on young people who had been ought here wth tir pas ialndre lore nivss a couple people even suggested he should step down but, frankly, i think he will still be doing wt he does. gotogohet av ek aur] ulyn hon at td ju it's not just one decision. somebody has let him down in a big way, and there's been a lot of debate over the yea whr huis ce.pe e haiin's ditse you got pure scalia. early in his term, early in his career he wrote very few majori opinions.

on lerro cws t,,hehame dnt ate zrstop th dides you got the impression, i think, that he had alienated some of his colleagues over the years, justice o'connor, jticekey. inst teeetb eransti twim and john robert >> speaking of lmbting, dit,his hlito's first oral cahe poueke nianryeth lee where he orally dissented from stice cay -- kagan's majority sitti right next to him on ee un py ry stthdahore om tonhe bh, lylog ti lede w rng from notes.

and, um, excoriated the court for, as he sawply sitsnc o c ualist cse um, was that a surprise, that he was so vigorous in dissent? and i guess, also, wa it a rihaalthse het alf arhaeishee itec relatively small number of people? a bunch of juveniles with no roanet rntd. an'sanor ci,utitn' s woseeone off. >> he cares about these cases. i think the point you made a second ago is the mo teresting, it would be one carype f keutn re

tothtt wte ve wcommitted a nonhomicide crime can be sentence today life without parole no matter what. autiy en most recent decision ve w citt imfewitar eto t ant eiyo doe't sound like an espeally radical proposition and would seem to be in line with what judges do at sentencing since the beginning of f a umceak aount oal unl hi tis alan wal tein wrote about this vy nicely, i think, an interesting interplay between justice gan who announced the chanerlan i asion -- andhe ofostd rendegr and you didn't know why that would

be which is what was coming. [laughter] alito lit into hen aayha stbe uas exenf b o ivenofanl ss ea e'tea the stone face yet or to look around the court as if it didn't bother her at l. >> get your blackberry. [lteto bre thaso,o o u lk a,tn'm oi athfr w chief justice decided in a previous case in which they said that everyone, juveniles whoid ctu sd cono sncto l ane chief justice wrote at the me about how judges needed to have the ability to look at kifcis.ual cases and make the wrgaiao o

thout in tat way that it got justice alito so worked up. >> you kow, justi alito was onhecegf e firm rohe-4 oioh ly etcaanin vd a mer statutory construction, you know, that you have to file within 180 days, and he wrote and on -- i think he was unaware until thatyu gbu w inode ar hideoati, basically, suggested that they were blind to the idea that became r women were being underpaid, they had no idea that the mer wkiot ef, tan tani ng ndte d an t that alito -- told that alito sort of found that

welcome to the supreme court. [laughr] >> um aher-4ecn al dntwe pa i scty of tro dnanee e sior p coverage at the time, but it strikes me, and i wonder if you agree, that maybe after health re those mightehe st pot siofer hesef chut tiony'pa aow nyplthffce bargaining is involved in 95 plus percent of all criminal cases, federal and state. did that -- ando d ali 'tt ur pog t. dre t re octe c? outhit ao y et as case that, you know, will be viewed as very important in the future? >> we played iteally big. i t tasa tis --ndtay whntngoupe

reihi a practical matter it's not going to get a lot of people redos, you know? you have to prove lots and lots waefivncodibout how youaw fag elou tac ateaffadnde d oinou h happened as a down the chain of events. d i think, as far as i kno there's been one case so far throsomee hot me geat no s aigalmbal cait bgsth titution to a kind of dark area of the law that the court is really focused on trials, only 3-5% of criminal cases are ie moll t ele ane aturn isasin t tionbenat ea an important point. but i don't know that a practical matter more people won't be affected by a statutory

coete t an the court rpd oae om rcan ilm certainly effect thousands of people. i don't know that the guilty plea case will, case is. >> i do think one of the surprising notes of thiermf u okckn sat of brilaswht nhe n there's a case about gps, there's a drug dealer named jones, 9-0 reversal for two ofd he gnmn,thrt se wnt tra eyo erre ers the juvenile life without paro case that we talked about, the plea forward baning case -- bargaining case, anersheeat am coe ense cralenon er a f am

maples, a guy whose lawyer abandon him when he was on death row. there was another case fro louisiana where the -- what wa >>dy peminrli ri anr of te les evence. for whatever it's worth, it's always a surprise in a court like ts where the majority of the big criminalases come out wig.t e y cilri s then jit fe reservative members, but in a these cases david was rattling off, kennedy was in the majoty up with the libers. knowohaerd acriut s, nonsfr p ffd cna justice system imposes disproportionate penalties, say. >> and to say another -- when you talk about what comemost

thyoav tacti st ieiza thpn that sent a really clear message to the states that this is a matter for the federal government, hoare you going to yoosllly tbodyh wn 'slle in liri a ortea at have followed up with so-called copycat laws that there's only so much you can do. now, ithat one they did let letoe otalad soleow mouocts one. but that's far from clear that it would actually happen on the ground that way. i do think you have to look at immigration begin, again, where thtyht g fel rn'ser a eathsten i thdegome ahe c justice.

>> yeah. >> and i thought it was sort of a warning, we'll be watching -- >> yes. >>t mot ian, t s t kif qiowh yo fed on what joan called the show me your documents provision, and e admistration does unanimously yoed urs hge i d eseof raweer igrn cy iheerarf eisnefyo can really write properly. >> and this one sort of flew under the radar was it came out, actually, on the sme day as the re sgdi o tdecion,utth t dmwielyg thcty ou t dshelth care case, so a lot of people didn't see it, but the court has consistently said that despite how despicable the language icstav sg

thaihhe aal be crush videos, they've said it on american flag issue, and now theye said that it's atually your first amendment right to miryalnotyoa trprly e t hestment i jped to come out the same day as the health care dig, so it sort of slid under the radar for most people. >> and that one, i'm sure that one s hed leby, vasusthl i tthhioon uttastokhem a while to iron out the federal communicatio indecency one thfirsentstactuallyidn' reach teheaen arifntm tha sue'kebo useyof cut across the ideological divide and,

clearly, they're ones tat cause them some probls whenth gu o w t thitll tlk about my career as an nba star. [laughter] >> now, the stolen valor case, amen lerghve bunt,res rna urtiplitics quite categorical and two justices, breyer and kagan, come prortionallyt'ear of >> uvethee any inside rumors about what caused justice kagan to split from what otherwise would have beea sod fjumatyn at n'itseth petlnsnt w s

s un pesatth university of chicago, she did a lot of first amendment work, and it was subtle and nuance today the poin of unreadability -- [lauter] itonenth ure. oa irod he te wsfer y pouob asada with your new job at reuters, and are you working on another book? >> oh, don't make her ta about that. aughter] [ltec as e cti? uheneo isn't biography in the vein of the o'connor and scalia i did before, this is more anatomy of thcind pic hor ours han jcein 09 acer ou developments from the year of her birth, 1954 -- there wae