.. every weekend wering youan thwend anan nefrrajrlk t knte thok examines the art of operational war through the eyes of some of america's best commanders. this hour-long program originally air ou4,

97 sptoancau mbhey t nt tht habon ud cnd >> guest: no, it was sort of a gradual process. fred and i got to know each other back in 1981 sort of by accident d ttrienbahe kyan wevea ununy. onc and along way, he had his left leg surgically removed, and i knew we had a senior officer over in the persian gulf who had sot g. ined, magel s, hifi enagt y le dd and fred stepped up to the plate and did a very nice joof that and we sort of became pals as a sult and srted talking back and foh. mape sdrnt --yoknwht'ke des? ware at thiyove do to be successful at it? and that's really the genesis of

this project. c-span: how many of these you going to do? >> guest: a total of four. c-span: and what wilthe other threbe? g: i ner a c-: wihe o okoumm c-: galnk okban -yal t n ur book a lot--that day in--back in vietnam at--is it pronounced schneuel or schneuel? general ed franks,o-author, cod"nedyn >>st'scaia 'sut 2lebo , ilersi odroe h vietnamese border. c-span: what happened that day, and wh date was it? >> guest: that was may the 5th, 1970. never forget it. of w segpog tat ti. and one thing led to another; we were attacking north vietnamese, we thought--intelligence said o mear tow hn.

myadcode gray l. brookshire, was on the ground along with the regimental commder, don starry, and i was moving in a helicopter to help the squadron maneuver--time was tss--flve -aafsi twa ed i kicked out a smoke grenade, marked it; forces came over and wanted to--i landed because we bee neerreotthpriss ivnsthead vimeorwhrere oumao tond without harming civilians. so intelligence from the enemy was important. thrtetsedi ofuninuran sotsorsli away some logs and so forth from in front of the bunker, the north vietnamese threw a hand

grenade out and landed nexto my foot. st, wae pu mrty of at o and that ended the war for me, brian, started a--started me on a long road back. anw mh thay ct l fwh u'ottow ov laouofrs >> guest: well, it ruined his football career. apsm ty taht uin le 'l,suedte i t .nui you knowin a way--i've never real said this--if--fred is kind of a symbol of what happened to the us--i mean, he is the us armyin that sense. i an, it got--the army got clberepret hard vim. kd ouo s. lemee f in ivim,ch

ce,pe-yno at ln sod becna, trm itself. and like the army, fred had to learn to walk again, but he did haad ireh tow, went from maj to: d t el ueyerigh c-span: how often has somee been a four-star and had a missing leg from a war? wit kihetoi don't know, brian, .. >>stah.. ue..stard e. g: n'in t us military, i can't recall i've seen... c-span: do you ever run into anyby today--eher one of you--today in the military that my ilf, neow igr raanrr an amputee. he and i were together at valley forge. ge... >>uest: what'd he lose? >> gue: general eric shinsek

who was a deputy chief of staff opatio, lina raw,mig o otm na seese permitted to retain members on active duty who have otherwise physically disqualifying characteristics. th0sge malenrted, brian, bacin wecrydee s stsearnn seerg, who, on a visit to west point, t a--colonel red reeder, who's a friend of mine, who had lost a leg as a result ane inryisattr a malrno nbansaid, 'here's the officer i was telling you about and if our policies were different, he could have stayed anshe t the polici c-: ntcoac, buwao toanif

boassehiok yet and haven't heard you lk about it, give us just a brief synopsis. what do th get in here? fueny ud: well, it's--it's mm kn-- ilio gel, hd it is to learthe sine andow hd it is to execute the mission, you know, un--under combat conditions. it's a story of how the army was rebuilt from--you know, from the 1970s through the 1980s. and it's a story of a genuine c-sp: diu puit toer knyoitboy tiou te me c-span: no, but how did you get the informatio how did you two come up with... >> guest: well, the research was easy in this case, because, you know, fred had--you know, this is all what--stuff fred really did, so just a matter of, you know, hi-his recollectio co denecif-a t, k ts 's n yorouat c-: dourts specif project? >> guest: it's been 18 months ago, thereabouts. >> guest: yes.

i- a h lf sconegesh, n o wng a ofngs wapersal witness to, of course, but other things i wasn't, so there was a lot of research into books papers, tharmy-of e '70s, res tulr e avbl c-span: some chapters have the--general franks' voice and some have yours. how did yodecide to do that, and yo uewellthasat s oe ore yt edeng w rengmat . iteirohe o- sed ik with my novels. and neil will tell you we both take direction fairly well. c-span: did you write itll? >> guest: ohyeah. su, yeah. 'smeit'sor-- -ia t rt ll-w ousal e t-onfffr atlt y in sowe botkindcrossing the line quite a bit on this.

c-span: and as i remember you' not spent any time in the military, as... >> guest: no, no, not with these eyes. i can't even be a target an bto l ci hne yn d ama?re yo from the? >> guest: i was medically evacuated, brian, with other soldie who were wounded there wer-matr fact, our we ltheair enenroa es itwiur aevery one, spent a week in japan at camp czana at the military hospital, along with a lotf otr soldrsho werbadly un sa woth sphod yt >>stwa. a-ic eato mcguire air force base in new jersey, spent the night there, where my wife and daughter--wife dese, daughter margie an nd o-b her

e thanhafo s,ndir ie ansi the.v and then was medically evacuated to valley forge and spent the se oerns t1 months at t n hsre eyge and essentially, my family and i--my wife denise, daughter margie and went through what we have termed the 'valley forge experience' o liv h-ener vy rg tonntrm --heinter of '77, 8 in the revolutionary war. c-span: you say in the book that at the--at that age and at relionyoegt that you notnly whal s le g: , oso children in infancy right after

and it s a difft ourivbr i n nsvee their lives undergoes a valley forge experience. none of us goes looking for trouble in our lives, but it fimof wek deouveow ine elid frhad then go on and--and build a life based on what you have, not what you don't have. and we learned that day by day. anwe rved g f hahrpld drf their own, jake and mickey and nise, named after my wife denise. and my wife and i now celebrate 38ed aer.

wmad e a ofs.n se a anve ehad a valley forgen your life? >> guest: in a manner of speaking, you know. noas tough as what fred and c-: w- douloug butyou thwht en g: dot go br i mean, you just--you--there are times when you just like to run away, but you can't run away from life. you just--you do what you got to do. span: when you talked abou th sittion, wait hard to wa hto it heot ra ueohu , the difference between fred and rambo is that fred's a real tough guy and rambo's just a creation of the movies. and he talks. if you a questions, he gives you answers. muavaddoknowat asdoti m n aty hek't y,er t y g: i was--that was deliberately repeated in the book, brian.

i believe was about two weeks foatedo , d s tihe armored division, commanded by general butch funkand talking to one of the soldiers, explaining our maneuver. c-span: what we did--let me interrupt and st ask: what were you doing tre in the iraqi situ-- w youjob? codehias oo rp8trpine r,3rmyics end rtere galwapf the 7th corps is designated the main attack in the ground wee ofentilye at.sthou i oisg ie. i keng around soldiers; i get strength and inspired by visiting them. and i was out talking to a soldier inhe 3rd armored siexniurac ne, wee g roto odeth ane ieopme

said, 'don't worry, general. we trust you.' and that, in an instant, made me li win t knees and a eyo-lot t ld d bofst a st creor the basic bond of leadership between soldiers and military aders, soldiers and political leaders, e rmg oustgi anatd ruthas reede nger storm. and we've tried to capture that the book. spantrus-hav-a lotf abthli.dr s u'ho a a i lkotut w t iernd en i torand what is it like today? >> guest: well, probably it--at its worst during vietnam because the--you know, the breach of

le.shapped ae est idjon,re sof joch o staff at the time really violated the contract they're supposed to have with the--you know, the privates --and the special--spec force carrying rifles and going into harm's way. yaha blal. 's tt't o , d go bdo. la tyss g ane t vied the most fundamental way possible. we-- sent them--the us army--well, the whole us military tvietnam without having aobivitho nglait hg , ouowwhhe llweoihe. d ndp inou ower00dsle for-or n vermuch it wasn't the fault of the military; it was the fault of the political leadership that sent them there. and that was--and that was the each of trust. spwhbohe-- whree heng u'eeppinha y? g: amlln ngm tise i thpeop, paic--and the

media in particular, wh the higher levels of government. you know, watergate came soon theaft, ani t k u , dicet e mp dreben -ynot' y eehnkey g president and watergate happening. and watergate could not have happened under the psidency of jack kennedy; i mean, otherwis sodylde se ilis-- ith cr corca oferels ha ca ver fud. but when lyndon johnson broke faith with the--with the military, he broke faith with the american people in s--in sending our sons andaughters f ie fo thha thoay h icanga rtarheiaok oven sot'en lou know, a really long-term piece of--of heavy damage to our country. secondly, the-- short--well, doo mirycamedium-term damage was

fa as amindocts for cancer, ok? i mean, we had people coming home from--from vietnam and they were being called baby killers and being spat upon when they di'te upn thmorng as.'y --kn pren tni atait- k 'pa taouakurpo and go.' and if there was aaby--you knowif there was a baby killer involv, it w lbj whathered useye ys e at daty ths ak ie- tasomeeyju o l. sy, an c by r span: what impacdid etnam have on you... >> guest: well... c-span: ... besides the obvious? >> guest: a profound iact, brian. we tkeo therussue rty,t. ben iese t great young americans of that

generation, who essentially were the sonsnd daughters of the world war ii generation, who also went and did what our country ked th gatoi thrlr enioof embraced duty, honor, country, who went and did what our country asked. and i saw themay after day in dot coy d.go d hrod ct thto t couge and to see the fractured trust. beyond that, i served with great commanders, troop commanders, non-commission officers. ofba-t isemw gr. ks, me mmders jimmy leach, don ansae t wond thepiod ha

ugepiod ni in peacetime and how tt results in battlefield success. and here it's the fundamtals, e twhou wi rly as posslet least cost to your soldiers. i say in the book, 'wh you're committed, then you need---tn the righsc t rig om a thornaesp e ti starts. c-span: you know, there have been a lotf ess about incidence tilary-ll e icabchng gels tayn knsentd at any of that come out of vietnam?

>> guest: brian, the boys and girls are going to be boys and ard thtugalessf ere ey co riertse edtoe ehed rher badly, and--well, i mean, un--under the uniform code of military justice, felonies were committed. well, ok, the army's dealing with it fairly well. the way you deal with a crime is yoinvestigate, you indict, you prosute and you convt or itd yif ane 'se .nsece yoha'dgeha fore people come down on the military too hard, i sa--we got i guess--what?--a million people inhe--in the service right now, fred? >>ueinll t services. g: ye, -cit llpe. miavthasoso hnsthli; think the milita's going to come off looking pretty good. it is, in fact, a very honest community compared to the rest of us. bondls lbond--you know, do s? . eyitonitil o.

an-ahiinng fr theietn expience in the military--bad things? >> guest: no, i n'believe , n. thenioersof se iatt dn ppga we also saw the enormous importance of fundamentals, of non-commission officer bas.wig ic ibee ththmyeyth s neosss a lot of--a loof tactical innovations came out of vietnam: the whole use of the helicopter; the use of attack helicopters; the whe aiast idea, h tht lr sithe ntnk hept fth those we great ttical innovations by the us army in vietnam that have certainly progressed since that time and

technology and have been adopted by aot oarmies arod worl t wa of usy ul the icol vam c-span: let me ask t clancy a general question about this whole business of book writi inieikis do dis knprinok wi do for a living. it keeps food on the table, and quite a bit of food and a rather rge table. t it's my... c-span: but let me just interrt a second--could... c-: co't givup >>std bototh dea lewe ant nd m, >>stdokn eske c o oxfor'adlyould he learn and gladly teach.' you know, it's--brian, it's what i do. it's my job. c-span: but is there another--do you have a.. >> guest: some people transplant arsoeoseea c-: do hanr i , yreu , aot ivion y-t oue mp be e g?

i , puose ring is to be read. you know, you write a book in the ho--in the hopes that people are going to read it, and i think it's a pretty good book. we, with all mty ined ined t c-: , ngd ba--irwath g: m-m. c-span: i want to ask you about that. who do you think--who did you envision sitting down and reading all the detail? >> guest: anybody o wants to i , ofpans fetorn tgu wog theew procedure or f--or my friends at disney world building a new attraction down in florida or whatever. i just love to figure t ho thin wor ofplt e shot e foru , de i thxps ili to be a general. and what's going to impress them is how hard it is, the intellectual depth required of--of senior command. th expiencre you surprised aer

ueye apiat ycty itik ce ee trngteaind it my third trip out to ft. irwin, california, where they--you know, they play war essentially at the brigade level. anthe amount of planning and taeqd fne igtoduom erns al l more complicated than people realize. you actuly have to go out and see it happen beforeou fully appreciate it. c-an: why d yodo thi general? stof dt m e ndspveom pee hohoe out there on the battlefield where the ground waras taking ple. as tice hepsh corpjayhawks, co t46 acad itsors tth oro trowa

from the perspective of those who weret the front, so to speak, not the perspective from teadten dh ics hersiv buutt ase t st gd iner so that--to tell that story, to tell the story of the united states army's remarkable rebirth thh nep tt of hard work er pe ther congress from the tough days of the middle '70s to the 1980s, and to tell the story about mm wcodeo, eyededw g w l, ine am, cndth abt, wt they consider, the differences between the risks and gambles, the--how you build a team, how you decide--how you deed tca

sianw fost w ga ima rapidly, and the whole art of battle command, brian. thedo explore e de o spnoom t tews'vne t okni waru ar a tmen op ies ws isk? >> guest: well, we've signed an awful lot of books in the last week. the lines have been long, and c-: aheteede been verkind. what do they say to you? >> guest: i guess they just want to learn. i mean, they just--to fred, they y thanks, as they should, for 35 years of devoted anexpert service to our country. and to me, they usually say they like the kind ofooks i write, and that's kind of nice, too. c-span: well, of the atticst han okthhere,0 >>st-h and e 12 urr generals and 42 three-star generals. is that enough?

>>uestrealfr in a melao anert spng mf,hill urviarerge fr txphe i'll defer to him. c-span: i'll ask him in just a second. t what do you ink of the--what's the lef a genel? wh-ynohin whres ocu , trng dinmm inheurd rs nioru , t army would need a generation away in addition to, you know, to conducting training and readiness operations on a day-to-day basis. areaorba t comin ernsgass jomeitenn t generally, it means coand, to use your head, to thi wha--whatever problem you're faced with all the way through and to be ready to fix the problem at the momenthe c-: frhau' , 's btrng

>>steyrt a euntndn coirieanth be cind rs and lieutenant colonels and colonels, and they work their way up. and the closer they get to the top, the harder the competition becomes. but you learn by s--you learn by ar as lieutenth yserr ye spblndn mp ananbaio commander and a brigade commander on up, and learning everything in between. c-span: you were 10 1/2 years a general. >> guest: yes. c-span: what's the differenc between having those stars o your shoulder than anything else? uethpoit d lo gfoe le cnd tppni dlo gfoe as an institution and for the nation. pe inieahive gener ban ti aul tin e orwoasl, tcu three, four or five key issues of their time and that specific

responsibility, decide what those are and th focus our energies and thenergies of acli w cde all of the people in the ganization and working to make aclintpaf a paroft c-: mek al inat sn yo book you say you're not a screamer. >> guest: no, i'm not. some people are. c-span: have you ever worked for anybody in the military that was a screamer? i sn st: oh, sure, lots. an--ci dg mbmirydeal thav.t htoveanan en sometimes you scream back and forth, and that's all--that's all part of it. and i think you do that to convey the intenty of your maorr inorut ptir ld opaul

at but then somebody's in charge and they have to say, 'ok, i've he wwegoto'l. d- tyondal d yo utat t d--t- k gegr gad i've got the full range of emotions like everybody else. but--but no, i--my personality, i don't tend to be a screamer, but i tend to be tough and firm d insist on skills and ahan aipane care about their subordinates. mission first, but always with consideration for the people in the organization. anw thou d muet cin-ye , hetile every time we touched an iraqi unit we destroyed it. i mean, fred's corps went through, i think, or 12 divisions...

>> guestelev. g: ank, inanwhfiac dionmaeoin onou,0ep nds on theonfirati of the division. and everything they touched they destroyed. i meanit was kinof like the medusa tch. iteajuout juli s l rvnghihr a nsheiethwa inftinbut at spaces. c-span: anything done wrong? >> guest: no. i say in the book, bri, i think--certainly it wasn't perfect--this rarely are--but pet atofth in1/ar trm and i'm enormously proud of the soldiers and leaders of 7th corps, the american and brish soldiersand what we mpedetinti arn orrif ahee ou kitetaharn

90 degrees and attacked into the--to the flank of the republican guards. i'm proud tand atat we toghe gebundcekehat di--how much training do you have in what happened in other wars? >> guest: well, leader veenrii--t le in lyee erwa u n experience, atom has already said, by service in every echelon of command. and i really thinkommand is dolallteerusit u t eneca s an u ysp au will, by demonstrating proficiency at each level prior to that and by also demonstring capaci to grow nesibie

ournexenbu bonci'ly fool learns everything by experience,' and so you learn from others, you learn by study, you learn by professional onraalg, you learn bgoinou thittaar a oe er lk tatieth peeeserved so well in our country, pecially from the civil war. and you also learn by formal milita schooling i'eeived stmyern an hatotoh successive level of military school, starting with a basic armor course at ft. knox, ranger and airborne school at ft. being and so o rht o heiowol toert y reg os,dy of military

history, looking at battlefields, civil war sponers?vely, is very important uequa le ane-reot a general in the army who doesn't have the equivalent of a phd in military history. i mean, you--it--you can walk into an ambush where you ask what you think is an innocent question and end up with a 20-minute leure that thgread s althyith alexander ronaonmm thtos weits y y. on tma things about the army--it--it's so poorly appreated, is how intellectu the organization is, and th-and the veneration they have for the study of history. spanisre pcu r y-- tke ntng tim s rtarma? g: 'rl tt t er bheil seems to be the most popular in terms of, you know, drawing tactical lessons and, 'this is what lee did right,' and 'this is what e wr' 'if waulveedea

erhartth an yo aea e l st i---d iisof my area of fascination, particularly the--in the pacific. but, you know, i mean, that's jus-that's juy o res- k a adf or spwhas f y yfiboamt? ue"rct" isocr c-span: so we're talking about--what was that?--13 years ago. >> guest: thereabouts, yeah. c-span: has your interest i'yoowvern arofenha-y owgeepnd deeper into. you--you--now wi--the--my last cold war book was 10 years ago. teisouw,k one, let's see, irish the vietnam era to explain how

john clark became john clark. then a possible, you know, conflict betweenrind n thweneou coctthddas soeevio tc i t tpeys d e same book twice, so i--now--and now i'm delving into all sorts of cry things c-span: the total number of novels y've itten and the bombernoctio ueniov isthrsaler rknoct veo ynohe -cd taerou "submarine," "the armored cav," "fighter wing" a "marine," about--which tells the rea--which tell the reader, you ow, what the unitse have deployed today are like, you wes , thop rentinarn ip exdiarit c-span: what's more satisfying for you, the non-fiction or the fiction? >> guest: of--i'd have to sa-in all honesty, i'd have to say fiction becae th's -ts 'sm erd er nearcoornsd

that's the most unnatural act i know of, is two people trying to write the same book. but, yeah, fiction re--really where my h iut ieay doe , yoomn?kser uei boea ad pyla-t , wss pennsylvania. c-span: what was your high school years like? >> guest: they were terrific, brian. i was very fortunate--grew up in the '40s and '50s there in west me w de,wel town 1ndere ie t ri ihl d grtersl them world war ii veterans, by and large. but had a series of great teacherst wilson high school in--there in west lawn--still itroui bin osys therndl s. aranul. anatatou nt? >> guest: great impact on my life. c-an: what'd your parents do? >> guest: mother and dad--my mother was a great teacher,

wonderful woman. dainm ev h b eaurf ngt . e a matoy brother farrell and my sister frances. she was a great reader, very bright woman, and introduced me to the world of books d s al vcal t my, sl at took that and through hard wk and wit and great leadership, motivational ability himself, coatdi jone idfota orlyudmyen t ffa t t spwh-douo to college? >> guest: yes. i wento lehigh university for one ye in bethlehem, pennsylvania, and then got an aptmtot t. 19-1one 3r

c-span: and you went back to teach? >> gue: yes, i did. c-span: for how long? >> guest: i was--i went to on tngshulndversity for-or soilwaeras stvay ba h. c-span: how long did it take you fr the time you were wounded in vietnam in 0 to the time where you could walk normally amteity,antificial limb? opiondfo-a was going dohill fast emotionally and physically, and decided in december of 1969 to doigftheerl an of -i y,emof i think it was about three months later.

ey tave of g bseinio ar--icrag f there was quite insient on getting us up, helping yourself the commander of theosl e -tdi l --'tt ee s a lc, et o orur, thai. if there was an elevator in the hospital, don't know about it because we weren't allowed to use elevators. amthpu t hng a lot oterkand help wa aro u a ha final surgery in september of '71. fe dted tonerlghte buarwalking soon after

that. and that was part of the thsyt. parof isomeme tmoaldjen e -eemdjen and that--it--that was so for all of us. c-span: when was the moment that you can remember where you said, >>st: almo rigfthe rg std intti i tth hegd e ia i lif s speak, in that my goal was to remain a soldier, although i did look at other opportunities, b i on ever want to a ldanut iwagh isn'okk, l hal for what we have, not what we don't have. and let's go on here and start builngt day by day.' it--so it was almost immediately right after the surgery. grp?: m cyeryo

g: ewin lte. anat yhi hoeaik g: wei i a nerd before the status was dignified with a title. i--you know, i went tooyola scho aheyool,h jt itnsd juyoow-- edgu ynot ndlileit er rli. c-span: but--how about your pares? what were they--what'd they do? >> guest: dad was a mailman. mom mainly stayed at home till i got into higscho andhe e trk mom 'sthedepen , knfostmy ild, wyoow there at home, watching soap operas, cleaning house and cooking dinner. c-span: when did you start reading? >> guest: pretty early. a--the first importantook liy ca "bit arhiasutar bear, but then started reading science fiction, jules verne,

back in--in third grade and i just kind of never looked back. whyoidr erng hab od yo in g: shs- vinen use correct english when we talked. my dad was--in my childhood years at hwas a shoe store bu-r fthgig, anad b. nd t n -- wve ad m tst wyomissing, i had a fifth gra teacher, ms. shanauer, later mrs. hemig, and there she really ma leaing fun. coitseof e d uadte i a l oor ogieatr. i remember 22, 23 books. i met best friend, ler became a doctor, carl hassler there, and itasreateag vien frids s sowa-sasra

olftadac i think, that really opened up, in a formal education way for me, learning and excitement of learning and the excitement of reading. d ve a oed r th spwhid l h dangh in h ollo hsc a ard doing stories and that's when the bug bit me. that's when i decided that some day i was going to see my name on the cov of a book d it took me 20 arut it spdo get g ie s meyohee practice at anything, the tter you're supposed to get. i know my prose now is better than it used to be. it's still not good engh, but i keep working on it. c-span: did anybody teach you >>: ohgo oyhich fr "" ida n ipriutttod teacher--i--in a fit of

nostalgia, i had him christen my rst daughter. he screwed it up. as f bsmd ne25rs the twstor teachers i had in terms of getting me writing. span: i want to know what you eathn psstonow out >>st, tla uewetobe 19ndceme sparu ri --t hihau' learned about him? >> guest: that depth of his knowledge of military history, hienorus cacitto rd d bsinat s eaa en li hryli fa snthu behavior, as certainly anybody who reads all of his novels, as soanav hwould notice that in a

vin ese it to, oh, absorb all this variety of information and make it into some coherent whole. c-span: when do you know when >>stll'sd.aving any fun? g g citr work, great work ethic. when he can't get to the grs ttbohaall games probably and spwho thof yoowokm ns, i'm--and i'm a vy well-aid minstrel. you know, i write books, and i'm very well compensated for it. the leta oatcts, is ry eadi it a iicr unprlyult have been involved. he probably knew that at the time, but he went anyway because he'd sworn on oath to preserve, prect and defend the

constitution of the unit st. gadur annian bouedk from it and kept going and reached the pinnacle of his profession. i mean, a guy can't get much tougher than that. ilelly illit d of mhu ouulplu w meet. i mean, this guy genuinely loves his soldiers. and if my son should have to go into com--god--you know, god forbid tommy have go into at oras, wan me lfroo a m. aner aar acun ouge d abon r around general schwarzkopf that yosupposedly didn't carry out >>stat tasw's at story? urof gd

n,n ce s instructions from my immedia boss, john yosak, that i paulroaden in the written order that came down, the order was to seize the crossroads. my interpretation at the time, whh eain mng otisop menic die sr, h we had force--we had aviation forces out there, but by the time of the cee-fire, we did noget any forcesoccu t sr. re trdo e thr an galh schwarzkopf, to the third army commander, john yosak, and i was communicated a written order t us some ti later that morning

be teaseire. gel arf wd the crossroads and then he wanted to use that as a site for the cease-fi talks. di hthhe ue t ndba dend s th got reported to him --that we had the crossroads--i don't know, to this day, how that happened. buthene thghhnak by sng cro when, in fact, that was not the case at all. and, yes, i was upset. i s maat time. d hi ady anou tptth atioimndfe d ficoicn

had from higher headquarters was to accuse me of disobeying an order --when 7th corps--th ated doyhe, 'd jt ert 1 i anat tir- communication i had, yeah. so i was mad at that. but i reported --what we had done and why and sent that on in --and en lrnedheer c-: yoerk general schwarzkopf about it? >> guest: no, i never did. he never raised it and i didn't bring it up to himand i c-: ac tom,the matter closed. h henc rn whaterl tsyo sense that a leader needs in order to be a good commander? >> guest: brains, integrity, compassion. hao tntctse y neethe-ou it sesa of

rmn,e ec cis aconm. tey-yo non anak, you got to be straight wit yourself, you got to be straight with your troops. and compassion--you got to love them you know, that goebacko rort robert e. lee,ou know, the--the first general i'm aware of who said that, 'you have to love your soldiers, you have to care about them, because if they don't, they'll know that and they won't pform for you.' c-span: th--i dot want to put rds in your mo bo hek thnc gel arf. sd tyore yin bo'no j fithi isomnt d a-haou i mean, were you surprisewhen you heard that the general hadn't, you know, said those words? >> guest: in a--way, yeah, but you have to remember that you don'get to be general wit hang - f pas bee-k, hto candus oopou into combat. you have to believe that --you have the ability to do that.

and-- these people tend--you know, evenre who's a fairly modest guy--i mean, he's got lot onncitas , gebuofse opogr s s the g ta -ynohes g start bumping into each other. and then, you know--and there--there's--there's going to be, you ow, --ybe a few hot words and then everybody backs off and says, 'oh, ok,' shakes handand es owitht. j-i d kno 'sd ikbaea yoteaouw, goalyeogr,h e heine'e ballplayer in thworld or he wouldn't be there. and sometimes that and sometimes, you know, these feelings kind of break out and then they back off, remember, gaga.png b spdo ha ly pas g: kethof i as a--i strongly believe in what i believe in. i think commanrs have to have a lot of confidence in themlves. th--ceainlthe to veeg

than ipoon sponbi d tothat the ego doesn't get in the way of doing what's right to accomplish a mission at least cost to your organizatn. c-span: wha--what didou do you were--by the way,hat yoinw deis >>stni too m g ttorte seg --'sle senior observer, a mentor in the army's battle command aining program, advising division and c-: irto . you do as a leader that--you know, your little style? i don't know whether it was, you know, going up and shaking hands with people or patting theon diu yswihet tthing oo tothvedyerd i -weoith e gruntag what's called 'the commander's intent-'here's the vision or

here's the--here's what it is that--that we are--we're doing,' and statat in clear, pse te ahe ad h , theeit ebon golig pcur so teamwork--i like teamwork. i think teamwork -is the--one of unyingenf es oizns secondly, to visit around the organization a lot--go around fet ve talldiers orza.l ve tow pe. u tmontli orza ano s well in order to command it and to lead it. i like to say, 'to lead is to serve.' thotlit ldne o e , thadan --ha-twobe of th ti

ulkedo say thanks as often as possible and in ways appropriate to whatever it is was accomplished, d haur a. t auen aat thil ts ug i mean, go congratulate, shake people's hands, do the awards yourself. those would be some of t things. frla a oornd eninto aan eiunnt ild amlss ttleand engagements. and stress fundamental skills--being able to hit what you aim at in gunnery; taking ca of your equipment, innceingble ne, dlanrmn nm--c l fuen au d h thcs --rgat and drill that hard so that people can do it almost instinctively.

whou omohe oa balet in icat-ws ou a hout re let yooond k .. >> guest: same way i want them to treat me. i mean, you treat everybody the same. you know, --every person --is entitled to be treated with respect and dignity and they--you know, if thetreame thataydamnell eaem c-: hek hek, e'nohae-t thacrsetvens ou c-: me tlay first a general question. how did you two divide up the profits of this book? >> guest: it's a partnership. foer, acactuck hmake fred e. spanatw o pede g he k e nate? ueweths -w formed, brian--the 11th cavalry black horse association has been in existence for some time and there's so a--th11th cavalry caiao er of vietnam in nionuth in 7trpsetoets

association, which is an association of veterans of 7th corps who served together, anats-juorddritish, during teago jgo r ex-anoof status. just awarded the first two scholarshi to next okin sotrioil tth t oizns nenef in the case of 7th corps association also to assist othersho m be having fftyouul r-telns or bo. 's c oe cl wgel franks jr. , retired. the name of the book is "into the storm: a study in command." gentlemen, thank you very much. >> guest: a pleasure, as always.

fees over 800 notable nonfiction authors interviewed about thr books. there you can view the programs see the transcripts and usa arleabase and nd s he aho we hel se ae a auors and their books. >> in a recent inerview c-span asked republican president a candidate mittomneabouthe cey.kebothee a ri rinh dvth next 100 years? >> well i hope soe of the things george friedman predicted come true. ere are some that i don't think well but i do beeth eras pl w t indu em,poic ee emi freedom, where that was born and nurtured,

change the world from the very cotu.ncd adse sp bl oth i ntama ctito lngoontr e ir of our commitment to those successional principles. >> for more permission on this and other suer reading list visit torg ..