lo hd more than a third of the almost 40% in tax cuts. e single largest tax cut thexsif altna voagt pl

e ahl weeks and not a single republican and house votes for it, and three in the senate not including thosewit thme roed a le vg an gnanitve t eyres andien o st willingness to try and figure out how you can solve some problems, even i there are other places we want to stomp on the president,nd docrats atush otms t al casbtwat twrtre well have one party that is not that far from the midfield area, although it has mo and theer pt th ho nw nt ? hn tbl i both sides. but as i said, t republicans are worse. i don't liket golt

whciwhthddf fihs and so a lot of republicans would probably say well, yes, that we've said or years we n't want to go tre, now r ur ger s ant ge intepot atllthm an it is, i think it is worse on the republican side, but w do have on issue after issue after noe th urmcutgt no oborymt romney. i don't know who will get the chance to make that nomination, but i will ell you now, and nobody in this room kno wo it butrymc,i obmoeha onm y cril te her deeyruic w ot

against him or her because that's the situation we've got is that it all comes down to my so hnta'sorbicour cu. ob pes oplg threyio r base, and they are not worrying about solving problems. but i do agree republicans have loepssline at it, more in thsumryoknow rrddoas ai, atmwsqoting, is very typica at least to the republicans w take part in the prmaries, and i thk th'srgt. i ad heei re sk het s e tre i allowing one party to redefine where the middle is, without acknowledging at this is a new middlefo

whr nrts h dianapolis star, for instance, called lugar a moderate or conservative. especially in a climate where that was a weapo that was used against him in epublic thrderfreinw edoauwe ght nobody the middle as the book points out in the "national journal" study of congressional records, there is no republican with a more beravoti rd he oa decr w eeily latwthoa, yb mat nhed i k ma fair point. dick lugar has a good conservative voting record. half a century in vernment sosa oneate ut h ee. interonthtreer h,haamderate is not because of his voting record.

it's becausef his manner. and in this calamity has a moderate manner and at he is willing to talk to eots isli a th idoboniu and there are some liberal democrats who you would also say our moderate in many. maybehat's the language we should be more careful to use. >n iust llowp ont hn u i itll. do ou be a mistake to say this is nothing but the ideologil polarization of ofocfplt w ts efth legitimacy of the other side and a willingness to engage in re give and take. barney frank got along pet onheisin u

it even though many of his ideas were included i can't possibly support you on th floor because sort of pty a aeg a oc staeg t bucksihu t there is a broad dynamic at work here that affects both rties. the'suso queion out . d peupouinte erlyie ht erso much now strategic partisan bavior. it's happeningbecause the parts are opating a lel pysota ah tiths anf anf atonolte itose, and majority control of the house and the senate. and so there's a kind of

stgits.sness to think in the thsi with mickey completely. but right now there's a deatdrpban. diferencebtee thbln ituencies are believed that government has suddenly gotten out of hand. it's just too big, it's too exnsiv tax areto ihd hisstethe rn et th fe epartment is counterproductive. democrats for their part wh ce were insurgen thmsv noor r thre y i

ec ooven oe te especially the major elements of the inherited regime gog back to teddy roosevelt d wodrowlsng ro roelt and, frankly, richard nixon, who was responsible for a big pt of the domestic policy apparatus of thecou. thre wee ier inounngo socialize activities. i mean, it's a joke. they understand that the demographiforc okadalarotines w kegr ty mo americans think absolutely inse etiono a akd

ev s press report, well, the republicans say no new taxes and democrats a don't aniywihdm?ime rg cots prenn'yit. leshfte pt e saying it. they're perfectly prepared to negotiate. eryone understandsyouk, anbt d b mar new tax cuts and then imagine how you're going to sort ofput back together in the end. so i thinktha ssro ndalfee.mos oe d,re,tepic

incentives are toplay the same fa oteerth u hre noep ry hu yokw they just won't do that because they belie government plays an important role. and i think conseratives, rl seivane noi ma hath need, they are not wild and crazy about just dumping on that. and i think ts almo cova esiv gist thshmr roe anththifnc real. >> i just want to throw out a theory, and i want to go after thhas csre

stanheav mm. ailu d xlain that starting in the 1990s, moderate republicans began leaving the party in arge numbers in plces te ad sotharepli i rehajscrd entirely different republican primary electorate, witness what happened in delaware or indiana. i will just leave that they are, ncomment. stin tha y f fweae v rmnk o aml inicg i have a few question. one is robert kelly, a student, andhe says if there'sa systemicem, hat g arstroteepn il ndmielicis al iahng a self-described aspiring policy

analyst, and he wants to know our voters getting what they deserve? by k he oncthey going wk agy,ok bu you voters are no day at the beach neither. [laughter] >> a brave statement. >> dyou want to takeith th syicblanu abnoatdoand what to do. but we have to start with an acknowledgment that this is not something that is ing to b solved by tinkeringwt the itns oevenhe stiol p. prm oa tsibll li. ao built into a broader media support. we can talk about the primary pe lgrov nistad the fact is that taadav eouer

pa bhe to shape and create conditions where politicians who might otherwise be willing to lo or solutions t us thedo ty whgu gve a basis to these individuals, even when they go wild, and limbaugh has said some thingshat are puck bauhee geous, outn atoia e wh t lle t thr ls cut off. what do you do when the new world of media baically tells us the business model that works is t fox newsmdamean nrkha di avimf w epenplcne mr tshat all three network news divisions combined with an audience of 30 million

people, and -- >> is that true? >> yes. milon in pfi o yarllirok itnoslel. tabn business model come in fox news tomorrow said all right, here's the new message from roger, can we all just getaog? ynotliewh t idwatd te' od ae prly nds or ithn. a t would be a wolf news channel that wou take the old messe that the two inept miion people aany iven thh coh20mllpepl atl itovr. athae eyng sos h tge uf how do you create a new public square where you can at least share a common set of facts,nd then debate hammer andtgover soluon athecale is t atlt. mi adw'vot t

toath electorate. we are both big fans, all three of us, having snt time in australia,ig fans of the atanf p.tem mantory n't dlse ly ml ii u t u oon' vego u voore the above. has led over many decades to 95% plus turnoutn australia. now, hightro not n normovha% atsn elcthelta lilsseiccat o % o a good day. [laughter] but what australians politicians will tell you is if you know that your bases going to be ther allf,eri g e e, ote. uo' fuson nriz an exciting and scaring the crap out of your base or suppressing the other civic yet to focus on

the middle. it changes the issues you tal theydon'talite mps t oys eyt bu bs climate, education ad things that matter. and they don't use the kind of language that we is in the campaigns because you will scare or turn off t voters in the ab tsoonik atanngv coo haof gallion lottery where your prize, your ticket is your vote stub. and if you look at the last memillion fopepmp out ree ys iade e ab ttatcetwher se'sfcte st bghg e y know, put a few hundred $9 into this and will ofur turnout signficantly. open primaries h n a ofn ndoean 'vt dohn

dem, ng filibuster. >> can i add a word? i ink the two questions really go together. an i ie s ulo ketr i k engt ller if you ha a mismatch from if you have ideological polarized parties operating in a pation o power ystemsu pas t a atm beal t,s bbing parties. and the best way to do it is to expand the electorate as much as possible, because the whodo t nopaipe l bly omted arve you know, a reinforcement for hostility of and the dozens of other democracies that ve some

atlnryatn otthis say hetee parties, let's have a political system in which they can get something done. that means fundamental reform of thesat elvetetase t os dncal deat world. the vry processes that in the sa h in eoing out at sator edeplohe woute agreement, now do just the oppose. they reinforce the bsot isivbenh rt adidlat c tose diual le that frankly,

the partisanship and the culture is such that the senate canno function under its curnt ch ahe public. sure it's the public's fault. you know, they got frustrated and angry because the economy did ygntd ca republican majority that belief that have a public mandate t do just what they said they wou do, and it worked rd tdo t. the blat n , ko,et eygt what they asked for, if not consciously, unconsciously. but that's in essence, that's itwueieyro much of the ulic.

helio egre ot ne n inf e leof typical attendee at a n england style town meeting, but hey, speedy's added brookings seminar. >> or arookingsemir. pe buha. 'sdepli ld ou ns hurs of reading at the times and "wall street journal" every day. but it does man we've got to figure out a way. cotunasto es oecleaod visacountae. vided party government has become the bane of american democracy now!. it orked under other nditions my sidnono aucetuo we sm mics to circulate? web a lot of fans here.

this gentleman right up front, yes or. lzoriow right behindyu er. yoor epati ann,exal ann of behavior and the more rigidleang republican party norm ornstein saitat yo allai h on inaby money following the more extreme ascites in immediate and elsewhere. so the question to me is, to whxtt can tt li of e thgargd heked o puantyet is amn nc see? tpublic insinuation into the process is one that is facilitated by immediate guided ianonist g avgr fec

os hsag flio ten condition of the republican and democratic parties? >> thank you. that's a great and highly relevant question. the main take away from ti atl th o dthhe of t s? >> i'm from cq-roll call. acknowledging that there's a conservative wing of the gop that is influenced. is it fair to say te represe e pries aswth an w,i sse ininermdra in both parties, including the resident, to mke the tough decisions about things like n t'saotnts and tax i? anenhtinu. >>iem.orin heee al none of them are still in congress today or mr. lugar won't be in a few months.

it seems that once they'ren theiway t orutr sonea bueny'n n ntng rth o' piis another great example. what would you suggest that we do as a public or others to encourage politicis are in offi to do the rit thg us's r thi t omu stto- ouec ' won that money question, and then whatever you wanted to say before. then i guess we're supposed to come are we close our pass the ohoalor su - >>haan nain ess inos hich haven't yet been answered. let me try - lenstioi s th y. bemedth a

s nds ece e leadership. the chairman of the budget committee paul ryan, a very able member, is the achict oftt dachlak rya tivey. titidistinguishable, and they in no way are by cover for all those moderates who want idonnk eop tght thing. t ubn y. stthsi grover norquist, no new tax pledge. that alone would free the neat.sanan partyo egg n ybknit resa ime o store globe into contemporary era, and they're going to go p, sort ofntraanwt

g tepplai anyowlle she ou3%f . ldit be niceif we could acknowledge that and say what's the most sensible, efficit way to structure a tax yt ab es wao mp ahlst of objectives. but as long as you add that pledge twhich members sign, it's hopeless. thpuanty ant e eranniv contth ry.l ryers political space for a third party to occupy. it's based on pesumption we thti ra dtpar, bi,admpl tithhe rfo charani would

really play a constructive role. isn't going to get worse than it w,d r nuetotead of just loki e tufgr? noat. n, en, simple truth is we are almost close to position with the status quo woulsolve ourpole cao mayhae intermediate deficit problem. and implementation of the cost-savg measure strengthened vrtm h loereaca rem waott awy h another tremendous strengths in our country that would allow us to make the kind of nvestments,o raormon talithe

seofind opportunities. we have strengths. we can do it. we need the public to rein in an n ot eds, fl eie earsan commissions out and searched enough for our partisan consensus. it's time for sensiblehrl yo ta h yst cai rs wor mpies, a couple of political scientists at a great chart that showed party polarization, polarization in congress was directlyrelatwt ineasi connton thneestion you can end up in so many different ways.

i am really concerned about a post citizensiedit feallencion coteutcol, anlo money coming in in ways that intimidate political actors and tilt a policymodel an a w twillonl hanneitt ou ais elefo rtro wye ru toule elle on an ad bill, and they prepared a bunch of model commercials that destoyed members of he gislur ute aai tee in d iarle, bscallied h a il oesti astt destroy the fabric of america, and showed them the commercial and said you know, if we don't get what we want, millions of dolls could be spent on commercials ju likehi. teyt te

mo hday lion ifnt planet in a different universe than the real world of what we face. so there's all of that to deal with. and we ar getting model gislation beg te ithegleaou u t1setry dting that we want. i want to take a little, i always like to find places where i can take issue with tom. and i want to address the quonaleses iuadobee ofreatuppaot prts rlipt. ave survey after survey that shows on a range of issues self-identified republicans do not take the same positions. of voters who avn lts of a lot anorgmtatyn' juorthers.l so it's not clear to me that all

of this will play out necessary the way that they want. and i believe t arerobl sos l s aomel da r g t ly a . haakutdo o crapo, saxby chambliss and tom coburn, and not t mention dick durbin onte otesie, heanheilll li ee e ri pic atn ckmais e sno seor republican in the senate immediately sent an e-mail to politico saying that killed that plan. he is for it, we areagait ths lebodey sot'a hngh . n t encouraging, mongers are providing face. it's intimidating. every time, getting to the question, every time we get people believe congress can we an'syeisiuan lieve enerat a

s suly'rts d c hwudihv houlv acted that way? so one of our ideas is to create a shadow congress that consists whs e ec members, h sad ec bo t a on o ce ded nenwy re sto, because congress was never a great debating society, but jamie debates andiscussions that will not havehuge audiences but you can provde a modl for reisio wou ths thlmnth anndgrde heoudo anything, whether you do alot, whether you do with a carbon tax or do it with a cap-and-trade progm, or through some oter mechanism otallive newt rogh oior aneny'hroun unceremoniously. small steps that may provide us with some opportunity to change

dialogue. >> just very quick, we had a "usaodg pl t a d rli, le sahereubns l w ed them to ideology calledimself moderate or liberal. a third of the party. and in ts particular poll for thetsmageimereuicl e idale. d rehy amtgo.us so there are no, there's not a republican in washington who would describe himself as a moderate or libera but a third republicans thhesemsheryd ean >>l,reta >> rahm emanuel like to say that the republican party's even divided between small government wing and it's no government wing. wita af heisa trh a od wnw t

waictoek and a couple of closing comments the t part of this book that hasn't got as muc attention, bressh ietioneit, e cot lf.smwi darty, no. constitutional balance the budget andment no. term limits, no. full public financing of ectis th sai t 'te a oebuof inhey to han tiet auadons tee a owns thrr ng ahe can see who wins. soet me invite everybody to do closing comments. let'start with mckey. >> jt g , upf e,oehire t puantyawe sedjsa bt does represent those who vote in primaries. and so it's a matter ofyou can be on the bal

ery e ut te whmasi o lyou arou'tea t thneo go. so it's the primary voters are represented in the party. secondly, in tem of c o ti, o' knoww shp ato mng show up where you are a member of the house or senate is present, participate in the elections, call into the radioadtv sh tho w et thzs rcy. % heripe a t re dependence. they are fleeing from the party. they need to be at those meetings. th need to confront. they need to becontl tepntesad nas saweegin is.eh inhn equio t iteoe

repressive? you know, i got to testify on behalf of the americanbr thh his various signing statements that he would decide for himself whether or not he had to obey the laws. and every republican thought thinwr wa. e w, emcy it nbo py efforts. it's about process. and i think as long as we continue to focus n, do po oha w tlltoget yoknw,iserpes? how do you define repressive? how out wiretapping without a warrant, is that repressive? soyou know, i didn't wear more on a slippery slope andome opouldant it.

jblyyih hientiwit a policy thatget sold out on amazon. so congratulations to our to officers re. >> tom and thennrm. i wt tthany anj fcrdsa it very negative sounding title, but we, too, agree with you that there are things we can do buildin usalthin cnhldu gend reord lte, ge nae would allow the public to hold officis acuntae in way at ey ictd te larna h un ponse

institutional changes, specialist in the senate. and sort of polticlears antjswavort lay to meehe listen, this is how we must begin and before so. there is a bgh f the i'reopmi. a pfair.iae plse uook. secondly, please by djs book, and please by niki's book. and please, susan, write a boo [lte t ylly . ppe] >>'rtc tv an 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend >>t oos nt t o ersoi

ss, ilrfro inl, i k ri military history" takes a look at the many military traditions of our nation. >> what are the things we wanted of rat tayti th aad oscngt mtcof expenses that people have had in the past in different typesof wars. most of us are naware what we call big wars, wod wai, rlwr iaetsy pl t n resnbe thvir.ofle e bior wars. but there are lso small wars. and for most american history, u.s. military personnel have beennvold inar ls inen woft. sose vfe . what we want to we want to be in many of our documents is try to

expose readers to the ways of war. and with that, of course, some of oficss ofhe en wert ih o ses ohegi ttled, jamestown settlement it it's probably similar to most of our audience. we sort of weighted weapon that want to expre ssh es irtae,e enree tha t hatocnr d thof cac hped us folks in the ways of war. between english settlers and the native populations of chesapeake bay. another thing we want leshwut vrstag wa tgv o oeof the more famous individuals in american military history. fr general pattont frhecnuro viy,cleonke

leshitgneral washington. nevertheless, we tried to move down that command led just a bit len scps,e josohae so kofoistce m n n hci included he described his expenses in18 through six with seminal indians in florida today cerinsurgeaonorhese buen to f se teortaoid further conflict in the seminole wars. the third thing we tried to undersco is the story i guess iscvlilte most xensine lion e erelts it. we begin in some chapters with

speeches from presidents, from ngssma from lian rticularnas dced cositu n eots m gurin auy tm. i was particularly interest in the story of the selective service system at the 20 century so that a couple of documents 19nypeopamrnto nd setht s american military away from a conscription-based recruitent process to -unr ce e the tdy. haenusacf sedeapfte li, w j the force. the fourth became more diverse. and also in the 1970s and petaf foase seen the ec opuhe a e cul. leha oaic puonrs u, ie 190s, the numbers

were well over 10-15%. for much, volunteerism was a ci ebe t w itta mmievlnt p unofhe 18th century, even going bac to 1607 and jamestown. but when we think by 2 uokhism we're probably ship ksvryin ceernga er lio dien tt st but that's a foreign country cliché. and 18th and 19th cntury, a lot of thse people who ntd pe f idf on mes cmicooee at url sowmn days, the location of the would be deserters and george washington complained lot about deserters, but more often than not there was some id

pores foliator wi.tfr kilysewag an oon in ry interesting about these early documents ar individuals who here a calling, asraoaivyos oh e ng . t cdesm in lo t vs 't really, articulate that interestingly. i ve the story of an 18 ated cllat wamames monrowho n 76. yo old i coll u a different context, he had a choice to stay in school, but in his mind there was no choice. he bin wor began tobreakut, teid ni gi. asdtbcme--hs

told to become -- and within two years he found himself wounded. he found himselfsa mo of coy hd hefise is o aman eol. wogo t be de the united states. >> when do we see this poll or this kd of mindset start to shift, if itoe it byiooh wn kpic iait ssmoi dernity. and this is a historical way of describing sort of a shift in culture related toorganization, dernizatio o oreau ls edtit f so as americans became more modern i think in the process the sense of abundance and poity, proliferat. andh hofcseas

ce fco ofree will, and i, particularly around world war i, world war ii, many individuals may be saw theonf ad e stas,tcry socsat ohi. w y t a t0 nty, the rise of -- that emphasis uponnscripti o he llt 90ivn abe netwollhe s. ournte f et t inpo tebog technology to wage war from a distance. this enhances i think the consciouess on the part of a thsee neope in nt ad oin gsut-vteorce is it actually takes that idea,

that notion that i had a choice, but trie to use tha a trh. seeon t i ued softe ats eg mmonll t the document from 1970 that was sponsored by the nixon administration action highlights the waynns,cial otisoucty cosufn earf edor oders. so this id of an all volunteer force in the 1970 i think really exemplifs the consciousnesso maf e pnnuior prd t resr conflict. this kind of a stereotype, maybe it was born of too many hollywoodfilms ma ld d kwh hy

gh res thnf. coan of the nation. the fact of the matter, i found again and again, evenin the early documents when individuals liteeyeepesas wereae otith often reflected a larger community based rspective on the struggles. anil tsuhais my be doy, ld r ndegily job quite wll. in fact, many soldiers are quite aware of what they're doing, and why, and t old phrase f t mentfrorar, nydialyw e ht tehed onseo mbeeven a pull that comes from their communities.

oliver wendell holmes was a lieutenant colonel in the san ee n18toil war anda bee th, wa meg aough he said in his memorial day speech, that this is the fundamental aspect oal alig ou t iiwrws g th l lookgrward, this idea of believing and wanting something with all your might, i think that transcends any riod in american ito unsa iesie ofwrsos e eeft aandthe sense of all your might give yourself fully to something. without becoming overly spirl,s ethi ii b e t , pte nt

tiror e afrinhey maybe try to tap into the feeling of total immersion in something, giving yourself holy, some of the highestform i wae imoisinosianloe er and even in these early years were the skirmishes and a complex were less technological and more about sort of call ulg,uheteup thy cofic gni believe that the sentiment of a warrior. and that is this idea of a total immersion in someknd of thofoenq vis, iinre wrims or herself in a struggle that ey recognize as eing broader

an himself. i think tat aybe from rsiv e me methadmifi soor i the past. you alluded to get m in particular, i think in the 1960s,maybe th fling obligationndes thre othnf a buay be moving this into the 21st century when we think about the sort of public responses to te global war on terror and to e returnin soldiers fm afisad aclentin oe atl ic motae of serng your fellow human being in various ways. i think that maybe te element otsnt iiost important in this spoktoal author clarence

y.h. lo. his book, "small property versus big governnt," takes a look at geeingerttaxvthe socialrigins pry rr ep ve ao t si opportunity to vote their taxes down to tell the politicians that they wl pay this much and no prit13s edd e anw ch rpetaheca aroer h to be about as much a vote against big expensive wastel government as it is against the property tax. ndywihe ncinxeoes. ith f pe hand. tiut >> it's a like a boston tea party ere we're seeing with had it. >> whenever you have a real estate boom,t's emt,

sentrean vis ng prt xbl. ar o ss, id texas, are always subject to land booms. in the 1970s, it was particularly intensandaes uko,ests et a ia hat the property tax is a tax o property that iswned but it's waeco ts. onicoike th i.ldly homeowners, could own a $200,000 house, a $300,00 ta bl, and have huge property t hanme a . c brtre nga fixed income and have to pay the property tax

bill out of this vry small fid income. and in some cases they didn't co i eif i fy. but rsonotis crisis. people being property bridge but income for, a being unable to pay thr opty tls tabisyonoou ttm. yudthgvhs l s of powers. they can come in, seize the property of whatever, just like they do for income tax. anthe govnmens partul ngio s. seese be funded, police and fire, but increasingly it's expanded to a wholrangeof services, clg n.

lstn, ls e education, k. through the community college. and as the educational sector has increased, caues to call rosshe ste sr o cr, rp aa. upwhat pin pe. usstple elly upset about the assessment, which places a value on our anenreeatain somcse e yoowhe at decade, what happens is people find that they of audith,ouse for $15 a ngy aiy.eop t acoo lu so the minute the value of your house goes up, your assessment

goes up. even if the tax rate stays the anua prtlu skyrocketing are a good thing because you say wow matt, i'l take some money out to go on a vacation, or i wil rdeun y raio d raripoe ex w o tax. then the piper has to be paid. and ou pa hghr ta usrotyuee in. ason ti fight this attacks before? >> well, that's the whole story of citizens movements, commity movements throughout los gelehocarn erwr -ywr

ity edpe n inlepaeil. let t gh income, people that are struggling to save, you know, to veryveodimeir ouses, ju ha n,y pllth svnganh f mungmoney, you know, well, and then iwould be taxed. but again, if they don't have a good job at the moment, they are wiout the abilittoay. oley, ep i rkclneors, lessegho ee icly hit, not able to pay the bills, and went out and organized a lot of people dn't coitaromni ths owatis nion and these are the organizations that, you know, petitioed,

protested, and eventlly p onti u ntat pss t retiniivn carnante other states. the initial grievance is homeowners. and it's very small busses, thmod bunes,ou wog-shms. wea havr iq advantage the they are very good t organizing. they are very good at making connections. ithed pwrtoogodt edi le, dinary middle-class peop don't have. so what the movement discovered is that in order to be folroaliioh order to ealy prott maal t

lyceadaeoe middle-class communities involved. and they were hit by property taxes. eirase wergng eiuseseronp eye i hswl. sies were hit by tax bills as well. so when the leadership mespe reat nelawn bes teapeonrs ple t,know, businesses were very land intsive property development, realtors, these weas wl theato the movemen s remaeahid t ou kaooe of the interest groups, realtors, apartment owners, property deelopers, very, very well raizd.

imeytgtoi ovthavtg ghalert. aamr l so the movement could succeed wi these folks in a leadership position. t co ohaedp re fpe treh ed t iehe people that couldn't pay, the people, the lderly, the working-class homeowners, te people who could really lose eomeyn thdt locrlef edhpp all tax protest movement. it really shifts to the people that are we nd u an, uo ay,y xrts. cal s,h innh x.

the tax relief in setting targeted to the very wealthy, even though the movement may start as a moregats ve ohecnoterydd lsspo r g by. ttleae factor. in order to succeed you go through this leadership, and this leadership is naturally very, very used to gettin ings wouldell. alltetie. tis spl br. th ments, you know, of poor and middle-class people, the leadership wasn't of the sameeeadep i yo they do get some relief, okay? but the largt relie the biggt e, ihi