cornel west in this hour and a thank you so much to the bookstore and staff for having us. a re honor and humbling for me to be here. i know who you are really here for and im pa viers knowke it short. i wanted to talk a little bit about a few books i he a call "jim and jap crow". a very interesting sortf reev d december 7th, 1941, to is passing away in 1988, the first edition of the hand print diary in 1973. rkablrica wh ibuthe

interesting story is his narrative,e basically moved from san francisco down to arizonere he is incarcerated inhe iernmt cam a los ati of the sociological study. and moved here to harlem, to new york and spent a lot of timen harlem for the next 15 years of ieng tnha i am thinking of how long he was in his job, but actually almost 40 years in new york city. he had a very parcur ewn tensehat for him as much as japanese-americans were oppressed and hence the title

"jim and jap crow". he wery muchesd pl ofr-a heset en h young boy he was orphaned by his parents for ten years, grew up in a multiracial orphanage and so had family members or riaman werines oren a multiracial environment. he joined the gained waiter in his wife that was multiracial. for him the philosophy was very ede.hat yes,e are bind t fhiheey to american democracy was finding democracy between true fulfillment of democracy for african-americans. a strange way sort of turning on i hhe ia mityjase americans looking for the

african-americans and saying we were oppressed in this country, how do we get by? whose lead do we follow? you see very ofte in oa a tatfrhe coast about his interaction with varus african americans, every day african-americanon the south sidechag om martha graham company and they would often come to harlem. there are a few spots where he talks about being at nes's apartment.utjas' there are these wonderful moments of interaction where he interact with native americans, latinas and filipinos and migratory farm laborer in california. he had this great expore

y,uc like being there in historical context, he sees all of america and his narrative becomeshe story or at least the baseline, the narrative of kedeophoe h tr tin about what does it mean in the midst of war right after the war? wh are we going to construct in terms of democratic america? what does it mean tohe wal the racialri? ee sry of his -- quite unique in many ways but i want to make e point he was representative of a lot of other folks. wasn't a difference of times. s a difference of ee otjase african-americans etc..

throughout his life particularly because -- there was this yearning for being a part of a family and he does rejoin h faly wn y ll rcedcham whou tnk about it. parents didn't go and see him personally when he was in the orphanage. they would send their moyer. think about reconnecting with your son after so many yrs behi bard .ame owit faut it didn't quite -- it wasn't until he married his wife and had two wonderful children that he really found the family of his dreams. ecf meri ing thi aut they he was that were most abused. this was his deep interest as african-ericans in the most abuse number of the american family and not to take away his accomplishmes

coe ty jane aman ial possible for us to form these interracial alliances and not drive a wedge between us and not have the struures that say lk at e mor aesi aca are quiet, submissive, get good grades in school. african-american and native americans, w can't you be like that minority? why you have to be a protest minority he wasighting agasthat sof i h bom common sense about asian-americans and african-americans interacting today. thinking about the 22 anniversary of the l uprisg the past few ys, aot owa whnfd t is most people sort of assume

particularly with african-americans in l.a. they never get along. they don't get along and never will get along but i wanted to be able go back andrite an rne orr eaa revised history tha there were these relationships. charles kuchi's sister married and african-american man. this was not isolated. o ra wre not just a feweo african-americans. it was much more -- a larr movement. maybe i will stop there. maybeilofsial -ofr west and get to ask -- modern day jim crow, thinkingbo michele alder,nd in some

ways, and the nypd, and muslim tudents. d thkiofiv system and oppressive practice. endeavour americans and asian-americans, and to tt of alliance. [applause] >> i am always blessed to be around harlem. don't know -- let me givha [applause] >> visionary leadership. and create an institution in this book store in harlem. wanto thank everyone of you.

itill be a cveat a a al. ecy t te t i w the legacy of whites to primacy has affected different peoples. ia black people.es, la this is one of the first texts to makthe explicit connection between two forms of american m cw -a crow. we go back almost 15 years. i first met him when he was a student at harvard. i asked himeroulde ac flowt rvd a big class of 700.

we had to move from the university to the church, the catholic church. president larry summers tried to catch th class in half because mheatch f camp g the kindness of the priests and brothers mac was there year after year and you didn't come to princeton. utah professor howard taylor and so gooto s tt, t cadence and a daughter renamed -- west comes from brother west. >> i am deeply touched. at wt m crow was and is what jap crow was. jim crow begins in 1895. people have bn enslaved, we are going to stigmatized them

elsc antatmorfu anke very difficult for them -- to respect ourselves, come together collectively d resist. that is what american terrorism s bwe 1 i in court all day today. and just got arrested here two months ago and this is the third day we were in court wrestling withhis issue of the attempt 0, of them.rng people. ten% found with anything on them 1% arrested so what do you do? break their spirit. teizraatedthem. sttihe aich cr is

still operating and tied to the industrial complex in that regard. matthew briones says i want to ke conen ee j crnde includes the black sisters. men, terrorize black women was very much part of a strategy. of the government. not just talking about fellow is cexivrder t gert 9066, february 19th, 1942, the liberal president, franklin r oano roosevelt, signs the terrorize, traumatized, stigmatize japanese brothers and sisters as a result of the movement. the moment of emergency almost like 11, t meninhich

utnd be the first casualty. decent is the second casualty and the third is who will be lefto stand up and say something about those who are f? ventti w. eb.ubois used to write a column called as the crow flies. jim crow. he makes the point with great pow. or om pncon graduate, presbyterian minister, when he wrote the letter to fdr saying that we protest executive order 90, concentrionp how loyal they were or if they fought in the war, taken out,

property confiscated, families broken up, t difference lots difrentartsf st e.b. dubois was the only black leader who signed that letter in defense of the japanese -- all the other black leaders whether they are patrtir w t mainstream, scared, intimidated, didn't want to cut against the brain and w. e. b. dubois is stigmatized. he is the kind of bther who ll tl the tr ay m japanese brothers and sisters even though i know i will be demonized and stigmatized because i am going to bear witness to the suffering which uustified anwarnt ofbrhe a

er y lek back, everybody knows they shouldn't have done that. is a blind spot on his administration. did this really happen in america? you don't say of course itdi thme j cw wa happening all the time. the connection of what was happening was the pick of an iceber brothersnd ste dli wirb pe r arbitrary power of the courts and arbitrary executive power because it is a national trend authorization which gives the present direct -- the right to detain or murder or assassinate u.s.izs thdue prs,o ro whatsoever. designed to be hostile -- how do you define it?

nelson mandela was a terrorist in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. elule vweasppng terrorism whicht we could be >> with no trial or assassinated or merge. american citizens have been assassinated with no trial atsoer. talkg abtca trosm h rbrase poor allowing arbitrary use of power to fellow citizens with the state not intervening. that is what trayvon martin. 4ays to kick in. arbitrary police power in terms of not being committed to justice because if the value of a black life is the same as anyi atwht s talk

about the legacy of white supremacy and what is magnifent is you actually get urageous visionary japanese thinkers a lea to buil a ri wioy courageous black thinkers and black leaders. interracial liance. making the connection between not just legacy of white supremacyocl cls. charles kikuchi fundamentally concerned about the relationship between economic injtice and racism against japanese and black brothersnd sisters and doing it in such a way he was th naow, truncated evacuated conception of democracy in the mainstream. what i mean by that is for japanese what does democracy

mean? if y are in an encame maicfdsnil t come if been rounded up you are being treated as if you live in a crypto fascist state. authoritarian state. the same was true wh jim crow,mi hin vaa of town but they have class problems, still have economic injustice, but you can talk about democracy all you want. i am still locked in, fearful of wib,eangith atonons and circumstances. as you can imagine we talk this way a lot to fellow citizens. you sound so anti-american. no. eri juste

not anti-american at all. charles kikuchi had a profound commitment to democracy in america. he just had a high sensitivity e leis d yeecenmeto both of those ideas in your hard, mind and soul at the same time. we know a wonderful relationship wi langston hughes who wrote o also has some fascinating artistic stories about blacks and asians and coming together in an alliance against a narrowed to bed -- democratic order aim-- often create his name. howard fetterman was the founder of the first intercultural church in america.

in san francisco. skgo fend charles kikuchi on the west coast. that connection is one in which we need to know more aut, especially these days and times if we are sus abo cr it oon injustice, legacy of racism and white supremacy and at the end and i will stop, kikuchi beevedn indivli ouien n indum. by individuality what i mean is very much what black people mean when we say -- thing the national anthem. with every voice. n't s echo. every voe.

doesn't take courage. just be eco of a people. find your voice. the great art form black people dra an.inmeri wymoc ca b jazz musician unless you are a -- find your voice. you are just echoing. john cold frame just echoing the phone- nd youvoice. find your voice. individuality. that is different from the narrow conception of individualism. charles kii s committeto ndern nead tod vo oirst generation, very suspicious. second-generation could bece over the americanized and lose sight of the japanese trition. howard do you find your voe

when youece ayb rs ticsf at e nese bring to america and yet you negotiate on the american terrain and be able to turn to a model of black people who in t fe of jim crow had our best and have a history of gangsters and everything else. black echoes across the board. we got a rich histo of black frmanblk rs a connection between the japanese level of justice and black levels of justice like w. e. b. dubois and howard thurman ringing s well in this tech s i onut would say it is something to live with and wrestle with because we don't know enough about the

history of the ways in which black people and ellow people are intertwine m olcx -- >> 35 years. >> right here in harlem. in terms of their connection. lical.ectual. f pbout that. you asked malcolm -- my wife, i love her to death and those asl ious daughters, conversation our minds and hearts. and james bond, absolutely. you all know the great -- s g

well.iohy very much so. my first question to you would be, vote, in some ways it is a story of triumph because it do take -bhe oss. ho y account for this? >> it is a complicated awer and in se ways the legacy -- it ia gafaure ll th today and that is why i brought up 92 anthe uprising even though in defense of both of the communities theyork hard afte upngreilnd pop to one another and was just completely abandoned and there

was the incredible picturef a korean-amecagunmanit sh oolt wi w h rifle. this moment of violence really tried -- vanderveer your smith and the wonderful play twilight really tried to meant wound, deep wound in american history. you see iwith jewish-american othend, o wimens seeing each other as uerdogs and moving through the civil rights action through affirmative-actioand aan americansndm spngy generalized, the

idea to coin a phrase in 1965-66 of model minority is a very conscious choice to say this is l avo iera yel fyo booth's, study and you will make it. to scold african-americans, scold latin and native americans. it isalf seri. adomes a couple weeks ago, and hard to talk about race and how jeremy lin do well, the cinderella story, without the asian american -- a harvard graduate

kes it anot abtn jeremy lin had racial epithets thrown at him is this a chance to talk about race? if you are saying jeremy lin got ere caushe hd wo, what does that mean about their growth? is it natural talent we tried to have this conversation but these young people, in deff a r19eaha bo into this model minority second-generation imgrants kind of narrative that if i can distan myself from african-american and darker leits mee nonds meg i strive to forge. something i try to do in my

teaching the is at least be calibrate so that folks are seeing particularly among asiaerans,nl political group. but particularly darker asians like filipinos, vietnamese, cambodian, they are ratiolize ss kn arins.ne okinawa and this are darker and seen a certain way. filipinos have been here since the empire started in 1898 and we have not done too ch aot anyin o ri. arntmy students is how do you see the sort ofmmro

find with african-americans or some owens in san diego? i heard today the great football player jr. sales- verytr coit sdio, a sunday when you are watching the nfl and you see guys with ponytaileds in the back most of america rationalizes those islanders as african-american. at wt it the oalab pacific and islander part of these guys is invisible and what makes it such that there are dlt aweiss onallice of the wedge being driven of asian-americans being on the

cover of time magazine in 1986 whizz kids and i is not even iokutd g to do well in math and science and you he ucla, but e ssuem court l aan american when michigan goes to porche for affirmative action in 2003, and i ask why? if i is noenit asamanou they want to agitates affirmate-action which has benefited women the most over the last 40 years? those folks standinnext

caers iv americans and white allies etc. they know beyond higher education there's a family feeling so here in new york how riamanr s do we know whare kusng jti whether it affects one or not is something i still see and i am still hopeful about. if i don't have cornel around i am not hopeful. eaec olss- e you heard marion barry's comments in the past couple weeks. there are tensions in these communities. i don't want to romantize the eje nses a-aricans are as anybody else. my parents were horrified at first.

why are you writing about japanese-american, we are filino. my mother's family was windup du w wi alf thadn ay mom had to wrestle with why i was focusing on this group. you could see the wounds were deep and the history was still there and be able to tell my therapanese-americans are t sipne americans, just being able to have this kind of conversation, it is a small one. i would like to kind of make it bi aorcle. >>hit mportant to keep in mind it was in the new york times magazine that the notion of asians as a model minority was written in direct respon to e wteebli it was saying was these

negro's are out of ntrol. rebellion, righteous indignation, challenge the status quo. we have a mod mory , rena,he ect opposite. in many ways it was a lie because who are you tking about? you have to disgregate the tego. pian cne jase indnsindia, that is asia too but america you get this monolithic characterization. asian as a whole. what they were saying was belud hesm, the last thing you want to do is be associated with not just these black people but the ones

ghs gnn. righteous indignio whis sy ve some critiques of an unjust status quo and they became upset about it. rage you can have rage but no substance whatsoeverut righteous indignaon is like jrum.in the tplwh hge ouhe changes and transform this house of prayer -- that is righteous indignation. thjuxtaposition of -- ginng in 6 aec thths a wred with and critiqued by both matth briones and charles kikuchi back then. he associates with the filipinos. ssiates thlaeoe exit the.

it is -- like going to the back of the jim crow bus. evenf yoar white. ewidut too many. charles kikuchi was the kind of japanese brother who would go to the back. what is the problem? you don't have to go back there. the ing to keep in mind is th i aatn gathering of asian americans and i was debating a new conservative white brother and his argument was you asians oughto be opposing affirmative acti becau it is in retoso. rgif you take the legacy of martin luther king jr. that it is not about interest but about principles. doesn't take anybody to tell you

what your interests are. ndpriples -- sometimes principles cut again serve your interests. it might be in my interests as a mail to put the sisters down. but th is lax mol nc cait wthen are treating them wrong. nobody needs to tell me what my interests are. i know what my interests are. i am challenged at a moral and spiritual level. what vision do i he? wh princips iav ths quio he? in the last 30 or 40 years people were told just pursue your interests. that is it. how narrow. of course we have interests but we have more t inst weenf morality and

spirituality and integrity of the delays sense of greatness of character. that is what is so powerful because you see aans riamanming together, and what they say in america. ofr down at thet we bringo a courthouse, 87% of young people d 10% having anything against them. this moment i brought up jeremy linmec le, dhe

one about jeremy lin, and share the ball, a great story and we will celebrate that and talk about something else which is the other stry in the times anthl bldci a chinese-american from chinatown. private danny chan was buoyed in the army in his army unit and eight men were court-martialed for it and they were ung the o eet ex iu cussing out an asian-american. intrayvon the case is important to remember we had a lovely men w enaiamaid and all the sensation we are losing the humanity of trayvon

martin. that was an incrible, intended does remind us that in thtwme t courage to have that casket opened and there is the mid point which the anniversary is coming up the 30th anniverry of vincent chin, a chinesemericann ern 12 o autoworkers' thought he was japanese and because the japanese auto industry was putting, quote, them out of work they had an argument in a strip cl win cs el party. words were exchanged. these two men, man and his stepson, two white men chased him down the street, a baseball bat out of eir car and beat him until hishe

ground. these two men even with the civil-rights case don't spend a day in jail. a $3,000 fine. no time in jail. tyew two thye the course of media. first-time asian-american in some way politicized and become a particular group but i want to highlight the mother in that story who goes arnd the trakg inroke ars hat happened to her son. in similar ways, this courage to so tve t o sono miaut trayvon martin -- i am saying these are all stories we should know in the sense that it is a

shared history we like to repress in our psyche but paul fe t g e, sef th haven't heard of the japanese american concentration camps. some of them when i was teaching in michigan hadn't heard about vincent chin which happened only 40 minutes away. to know aboutn ar hiieotsay african-americans slavery is the same as japanese-american that for -- concentration camps but there is much more that brings us together tn drive us apart. whi o t dignity and mend manatee -- the mother and father of trayvon martin you have seen both of them on tevision? stt ard ca for yove o expression of

hatred of bigotry. that is the best of the country. in the fe of terrorism, in t otrma, ie of stigma like frederick douglass and, randolph and martin luther king may talk about justi, not revenged. they're talking about spreading love, t sprding hate. atakra of courage. spiritual soistication. spiritual sophistication. it comes from a soul of love, a d hitcaft humility is the benchmark of maturity. in the same way arrogance is the benchmark of immaturity.

the arrogance of racism always a e e lyalg wipial lk. humility dealing with something deep. that is what you see in the parents of trayvon martin. there are thousandsf parents like that. we don't even get a chance to t ies bout em. ins ouet ato of an asian brother who exemplifies with vincent chin and so many other spiritually mature asian brhersrs ev -ast in iavto on trial with this case. it is like looking in the eyes of the judge. if yourldtif fronan se own it is wrong.

i would still be here. if 80% of all white brothers and sisters were stopped -- it is wrong. it i aofmoli thctt s k and brown given the legacy of white supremacy and a history of this nation connected to jim crow, connects it to slavery, connects o gi v t iooueoo matter what color, that is the tradition we are talking about that brings all of us together no matter what color you are. of matter of rality, iegty reofseng f we're talking about. you all got questions antiquaries and matthew briones is rea for you.

htoivorhe betterment of society but how do you overcome racism when it is so intrinsic to the culture? .. laugh. >> oh, lord. that is, that is deep. >> it really is. >> you know, maybe this is in someays a trite answer, b ri w iay educate, right? and in the sense that i know the

sense of privilege that i have, you know, to, you know, be able to go to graduate schoolnd teach kids who go to harvard o now, you know,neof rm it was really sweet of them. of you know, to teach at the university of michigan, to teach at the university of chicago, these folks are going to be the leaders, quote-unquote, of whatever it is. and, yes, iuestion every day ante atatstngton reproduc ffndco t 1 that's, you know, raping everybody. but if i can start to reach some of those studentso that that lesson trickles down in some ways -- not trickles down, that's a bad, you know,tas evo filipino-american at the front of the classroom instead of seeing me in a history book, you know, with a grass skirt and a pygmy next to president william mckinley. i mean, that's how i grew up. i saw myself in aisok

d dnik y ? and that stayed with me, you know, from when i was in fourth grade until now, you know? and trying to teach my daughters, you know- ela, my youngest daughter, she's s l nguut tl u cll fits in her life. , you know, she thinks she was named first, in other words. [laughter] but, i mean, again, tha j might sound t romantic, but woisy hfuht tott, ow, my wife and i can have these multiracial children, that's even another kind of example, right? but there are days we want to escape to hawaii because we know that more kidsok like my kids what i m?here else, you know pp thy p y ow ght feel more comfortable on the south side than i would in hyde park. i don't think i have the

experience tanswer that question as well as probly cornel. >> well, it's a deep question, it really is. nrhlrna a t ch 7 philadelphia, the first time free negroes came together in a puic discourse, and he said: never confuse the situation of black people in america with the anca ine ha pt somebody, could somebody sing a song, please? [laughter] just lift the voice and sing a song. keep on pushing. as curtis would say, you know what i mean? sow hee as rk, e ee ng'vt keep fighting for justice. and if we're religious, i am as a christian, i bear witness with the grace of god so i get help, psalm 12 but i sonowhearess ryl. qu wtsafo

when henry highland garnet said that, he didn't say give up, sell your soul, he didn't say cave in. he just said you might think you're in the promisedand, but he cs savery by another game, jim crow. then you move to the north, jim crow jr. hunting you down. it not legalized, but it's still jimrow. what do blkeoat ? epsh wl athy we a blues people. see, blues looked the catastrophe straight in the face and say, like p.b. king, i've soulanm g ow've got lve in my oslk st m t w' not as free as i want to be. [laughter] give me a little help with lucille. i'm going to sing this song.

nobody loves me but my mama. [laughter] that's not hopeful in his thy ss bit'sery fu thale right now is we've got a younger generation who is more and more either selling too [iib of their souls for- caevodupor s lly it benjamins, all they want is money. no, no, your grandma's weeping from the grave. she didn't just want you to be financially succesul. she wants you to learn how to ghrusti, ouou a an ama n'stupore tell us how well you're doing with your money. we're losing that among young folk across the board, and that's why that question is a frightening question. because in the d believe stli oulcrlackolk ie

b, we've always been the prophetic eleven in the democratic low in erica. to allow that loaf to expand for everody. but that loaf goes stale if black ophetic traonoes ad in afamhtle cayod itck president, and we all celebrate it, so forth and so on, but then the litmus test is always how much courage do you have to tell the truth about the suffering of the people. abthndia complex,about not saying anything about the homes lost, wall street gets bailed out. hey, what's going on? got to put pressure on him. tell him the truth. the wonderful thing is, there is an awakening taking place. i noticed i i eoun f juheup men y f. ret down at north carolina state university. i go on a black tour every year of black colleges just to be in contact with the young black

folk in the college. you can meet black folk in coluia and a lot ol soinoue h. especially south carolina. [laughter] black folk there call mississippi is only compitor. >> alama too. [lgh weit, em a challenge, and so forth. most black people in harlem come from where? north carolina. you come from mississippi, south calina. you've been is so fundamentally er hher ok cyofur g. [laughter] and yet in south carolina here come dizzy gillespie, here come james brown. that's where they're coming from, fighting in the fa of care, in the face of trauin thfat sin u ll w, that in -- you do

that in south carolina, that's serious business. and i was down there with brother tavis smiley, and i te cag ig outaraaul thing. te it, brother west, tell it. i'm just kidding. we had another question. [laughter] [di en rhet' d out. and i haven't seen -- i've seen random people dying and put it in the news and, you know, i walked in -- [inaudible] sensationalizing that. >> ght.

>>oue,ial martyrs, is that necessary to reach young people at this point? that's how -- [inaudible] >> another deep qution. >> i mean, iliha d trtha fertilizes the soil of freedom. because, and this is what we're trying to do in the stop and frisk case. yope, ourest, we sid l ghared love you enough to go to jail, and we love you enough to die for you. so it's not just the martyrdom, it's the love that is manifest in thwitness that leads to martyrdom. you see what i mean? t e tahit love act. because we know the death of met

ger evers, the death of mlcolm x, the death of martin kin those events thselv were love tsheac ple aodey loved us enough to die for us. in my own life, many black people wld say only mama would do that or daddy. they loved us enough to die for us? that's serious business. anere'al b a whuldi black people. because you know if you love black people deeply, there's a very good chance you're going to die. [laughter] because if they suffer so bad, you hate the fact they're suffering, you've t do meg. eain mogo u black people. whether you agree with him idealogically or not, the brother loved black people enough tkeep them on his mind all the time. willing to die. and black people knew that. so they wouldn't even agree with hipocall benth

wrct'eyay e somebody who's sacrificing for me. but that's very serious. and the flip side,f course, is the babies, you see? so many of the slave insurrections resulted from the death of a slave baby. th'shytecla race,or u de and that's the worst thing you could ever do to any people, isn't it? it's the deepest form of dehumanization. that's what they did with our jewishrothers and sisters in nazi germany. cn'bury t usenu b re ry dou raise questions about yourself. they start bearing all these slave babies, gabriel said, what? i'm going to organize some pe, we're going to fight. fulsymt lo tm toav yrinatseh ba are precious, innocent, perceived as pure and pristine, it makes folks

straighten their backs up. just like going to your grandmama's neral, right? you a a diffe prsonhe pu madi, grandmama, in the grave. you're different. yoll never be the same. because it raises questions about yourself or your best partner or your s and your daughter, you see? so that martyrdom s to do with love. and it all about, you know, ean lhhe uarrs- icily brothers. or the love train of the ojs. that's not just a song. old folk used to sing love lifted me. th wasn't a theological statement, thawas lifeive to lsi torg boovu,nd you learn to love, and since justice is what love looks like in public, once you start really loving, you're going to be a justice seeker. you're going to be a fighter for juice, whatda s

barnett called her crusade for justice. but when you love people, be ready to be demonized. becausi wrote this wonderful song wi boot si collins, anotherenall " i tat nd ue llk and they're not ready for it, it's a threat. individuals, people themselves or even a nation. even a nation. i'm sor to go on so long, t th iss rtmisy, ryor. d wedghow tac ers, we don't need leaders at all. we need people in love with the people. we need lovers. and if they ll you a leader, that's their business. that ain't about you. just showhat you love inerms you ele weno making any progress, we're not moving forward and so forth, you see. and that's what we had inside '60s. we had folk who loved us.

angela was willi to die, bby alwig e. ul monfo j standing on the corner in the 1960s. whether you agreed with them or not, they loved you enough to tell the truth, and they wanted to die. how many folk you got nowadays? ho many of these pitician tell truth? >> we even had some japanese-american participants in the black panther party. i mean, these guys were willing to die in that moment. >> ld, yes afn-icou a, sacrifice on behalf of other peoples because i was thinking again of the beginning of the empi and the philippine-american war where there were african-american soldiers, a book called "smoked nks," d ths amo riamandiav w's been written about a

lot, too. they go over to the philippines, and they see these people look more like them tan the officers or soldiers along whom they're fighting. and theyo awol, you know? and they say i'm not going to fit e n a yw le sof the interracial marriages th took place. but those guys were willing to either be court-martialed, right? or probably executed, right? water torture starts there -- m sure the water torture knthwatun tre t b, u ips ra so there are, so there is this long sort of history of, you know, that kind of sacrifice, right? and when you said martyr, this is a little bit of a side note, but the history of the philippis a thiing at rithest m named acquit know who is the son of a man who is a martyr. his father who went back from boston was persecuted by marcos

goes back d says i need to leadpeop. thanouowhe s hek thhead and, literally, his blood is spilling on the tarmac, right in and that airport now is named after him. his wife goes on to lead a revolution with, thankfully, the help of the church and the military le oherem it e philippines still, you know, it's still quite corrupt, etc. but there is some hope, right, that you see the son who's there and is trying to do right bythe people, but there's still so much corruption. thfather d saific t hectt, r? acackicr, right? ferdinand marcos. that's what i thought of when you said that. and as a boy growing up, that's who i thought of, you know? he was a family friend. inking, you ow, my god, he just g shot onleon u k? av w >> i think our dear sister here

and then this brother. >> i grew up in the greattate of maryland which is about two [iibs bhind - d had my -- [inaudible] by my segregated edution, mandated segregated education from the better half of the last half century ieee t anerday that i teach becomes a fight, a battle to grab the children and to tell them and to make them uderstand thatyou' sod yab oei li bustlin the press, nothing on the tv, little in the movies drives this point home to them. and if you look at the daily publications -- and i look at, i read my three ion news lrs

i remember most is they have a review of some children's literature and seldom does anybody talk about the children who are in the majority here in w york city. my question od, fohantof south carolina state where my oldest brother was at one time president. but my question is to both of you, how do -- i'm scared. i'm afraidbee n'in aso w around half educated, not knowing who he or she happens to be can be a productive, law-abidingitizen. my question to both of you, ho chenfoamsuo, how ireach t and swallowed by this ugliness that exists in practicly every

school that i know about here? >>qu hs mapa o it. >> things start in the home, but your daily -- the majority of a child's waking hours ages 6 to 16, 6 to 18 are spent in som plac caedch ve ce. he t. ere's something called compulsory -- [inaudible] what do i do before it consumes and swallows -- >>et tenr re,orde determination can't nothing chop you down. can't nothing chop you down. i feel your spirit. but the thing is that we're losingo many precious young folk. it's a combination of home, ou cch and get somea

spirituality, but that's been so markettized, commercialized, modified. you go to some of these churches and see two atms before you see a cross. [laughter] in k-ayow, itu rihe is. no, we've got some churches. i know first corinth thans here is strong. what's his name? yeahi hear good thing about that. me of e churches areoving, soy o t hee comodified. so the question is where do we go? in home, in schools talking about preparing young folk for a workplace. because you're talking about spreading that love again. you must respect seave iden iolf bve ouf. coro a gtadn. you come from a great heritage and people who in the midst of all of this crisis still

generated all of this courage and vision and so forth. but massedia't tel the thatanlo se wsrs a leers won't tell them that. home, church, mosques, synagogues, jewish, black, white, whatever. but we have be honest, and we have to say that we live in a society that ri. cndey dr to kill innocent folk, terrorists and innocent folk with joysticks in virginia, unmanned aerial. you know how mu money it takes to do that? tatooatwmu how much skill it dohagoo st but we can't have a priority of making sure our children are safe, making sure that there's enough jobs in the community so that the underground economy of guns that comes om outside and drugs that comes from outside bu's fg lylm so he

wriy. so in the end we're talking both about home, personal responsibility, but we're also sy a e.armout prsure, social and that's a very difficult thing to do, but that is what is required. it's what is required. finland, for example, they're number one in the world. finland. now, whyis fndum w? he c gets three meals while they're at school, each classroom is 1, and they've got a teacher and a teacher's aide in there, and they tell the students every day whetherit's true or not, you're brilliant, you're brilliant, you're illit. ts he w-t aca. stheir kids to a school that has 14 in the class, they're told every day they're brilliant whether it's true or not -- [laughter] but they've got moy.

and their home isinlved. the p% aicha the students in fin lan. finland. but it's only when you introduce poverty and students of color that ameca becomes 25. and that's what we are now, we're 25th in the world. i'm sorry to go on s long, b ofon. >> yeah. i just noticed this very young man has a question. could be one of your students, i guess. >> are we going to go over to the youth, and then we get to -- where is this student? >> i thought tre was a young ma-- ohe yng btherith yeelon o ththais happened up. okay. [laughter] >> you've got a magnificent smile. you can ask is a question if you want to, brother. we blessed to have you here. go right ahead. >> i'd like to say i'mladoth guree. iuato f

corinthian baptist church, i know pastor mike. >> tell him i say hello. >> he's a morehouse man too. >> yes, he i this qstioisorat. cum a we just thinking about the '40s. i know the book is jim and jap crow, and i'm wondering about the sensitivity or insensitivity of african-americans as far as i know it'sround ta 40earbadn bombed. let's say the asian community, let's say harlem, detroit, how was the african-american community, how was thr relation towards the asian brothers and sisters? was itnsensitive? were th mor rsin thav aatiohips that they built? because oftentimes, you know, i've heardhe statement black people can't be racist because we have no power. but in my journeys i lo my

i uutow aes avmeve s issues. >> absolutely. >> with racism. such as prejudice issues. so i'm just wondering ho were wee t sdshe aan wait a litt bit more sensitive? >> no, that's such a great question, thank you very much. thank you very much. youyou know, it's, it is as corl wa sayi tt dse- ysras, rt? an by afcan-american intellectual or leader to sign publicly that open letter from norman thomas, you know, to fdr protesting incarceration and the conctration camps. you find a little bit of st, knan ttbiof s buying into the yellow peril, and we

knew we shouldn't have trusted these people. and some very few and far between articles like the chicago defender. re often than not, younow, there's someilee, ght? trath dd l t this, duboise's biographer, and he said the naacp did not want to be tarred with the rush of anti-patriot itch. beheabotsknow, itas incdi u a l ors filipinos going down to the docks and beating up japanese. and, granted, some of it was related to japan's invasion of the philippines, but these were filipino-americans, janesemericans, so thewere byti o i am filipino or chinese to differentiate themselves. which i don't necessarily blame them for, but you can see already within a group, right, social security th disaggregating and trying to separate. ho mofheblas

african-american outlets, so african-american newspapers in particular -- and we know how important african-american newspapers are to the community, buparticularly for scholars paul ad tut they were alwa - psewe oy nemenswre op-eds, reports from camp. they were, you know, asked to guest edit or guest op-ed in the crisis. so actually that's where my title ces from, mwhs wh wheanesamerican citizen league's crisis, basically, the newspaper. he was asked to, ll, he writes about jim and jap crow. yosee i loselfos pase. amhsge ib--'s a african-american woman right now, mina davis, and over at the california eagle, you know,

again, two histories of african-american women that haven't really been with told. butinvirehy lahtst wer wh grew up in california, was incarcerated in arizona, but they have these wonderful debate going back and forth about h are we going to build alliances, whoue en mmieatn'go get along? but you see this incredible conversation and dialogue through the newspapers. and i have some, you know, because it's a diary i he thes excerpts were friend wereomin doit en trk in san bruno. it was a race track, i mean, it was a horse stall. and his african-amecan friends were coming down from san frcisco state where h went to college, a pefuy this nna tmae e' a

tiviwaho me to him and said we know what you're going through, we are with you. and you did see african-americans going into the mps with japanese-americans to om they were married. so, younow, there really was mu mor ih o coiso other quote-unquote asian-american groups. >> fascinating, just quickly, how quickly so many christians suinthosdeheack christians will th cross signifying unarmed truth and unconditional love ought to be cutting against the grain of every flag. because every flag ought to be subordinate to the cross for christians. and there'aonderfulmo er the great julius caesar known as the dancing preacher, he's one of the greatest preachers ever.

he was a crchwhere thom rsey's pla thepian th susrc. it wasn't a praise team, it was a choir. i want to make that clear. [laughter] and then james cleveland woul take it over after sp it tis ice d inls him not only come to the church, but you can become a member if you want because this is a church that's open to everybody. keep i mind, this is jim crow chico, 1940s. so the church is segregated like everher institutionu abolitical resistance, austin says it's hard for me to conceive of how chicago's ging to change. so i just have to be expedient that regard. pocauriso toos

relate to his spiritual strength, and he's also one of the greatest artists in the history of the pulpit. and to have that conversation going on is very rich in this text because people need to know hes inth geyor il an w oofo fascinating preachers of the 20th century. >> you raised a comment about the -- [inaudible] >> yeah. >> i watched -- [inaudib] i whea wwer in wall reetand inthe dvas, as convinced that the economy was going to collapse. i mean, is that what you would have wanted to see happen? >> oh, no, no,o. i wanted big banks to collaps cosei didn't want t eomto aur] deraze the banks and the way in which he took over the automobile industry. what did he do with the automobile industry? first thing he said was you've got to change the contracts. well, contracts are sacred in

america. not for workers. i'ivume money to save? it, and you've got to kick out a ceo. with the banks what was it? contracts are sacred which means they still get their high levels of compensation. right? didn't touch 'em. ' tliof ar nndns welfare, corporate socialism with no conditions. so what you need to do -- any bank that's too big to fail doesn't need to exist. because if it's too big to fail, it's gotoo big of influence, d itaoued dera tko look at the community banks, barely making it. right now these big banks can get zero interest on loans. wouldn't it be nice if students could get interest zero on loan how come students can't t soot want collapse, no. i want democratic

accountability. but, see, when brother barack came in and supported him, as you know -- i still love my dear brother, i just put pressure on him. aur] sphiroim rrhiec'mgt the white supremacist lies they tell about him. it's wrong. it's vicious. you've got to protect hi respect him as a human being when he sides with tim geiner, you've g to come down on him. wht s t homeowners who are underwater, but it's $700 billion they need? $28 billion in the face of $700 billion? but the banks got $16 trillion so far? igic 'sutti aur] it's the rule of the few and the powerful at the top. and they've got both parties. democrats betterhan republicans, no doubt, but you're not saying too much. from that sense, you know, i

pport him crically. reselde b, ould have been homeowners, workers and poverty rates now higher since the 1960s. poor people. but i'm a chrisan, see 25th chapter of matth mea meg. at'rinod lt e doo myo see? to follow jesus is to love thy neighbor. which means fight for justice. and that's a calling. that's not, you ow, that's not for everyby. love thy enemy, that's christian too. don't try at by yel gh yoe in?el but that's just my perspective. you know, i could be wrong and so forth and so on, but it's the pressure y put on as part of our legacy. because if the folksidn't do 150 yearsgo wn'be . dt t e a they wouldn't be here. if we don't do it now do you

know what's going to happen to our children? it's already happening now. no vision. where there is no vision, that's what we're seeing. that's what our deariss ter.d a e ngfo perishing. she loves them so. she knows she's got to love, she's got vision when she was coming along. ain't no way her brother's going to be president of south carolina state without somebody convincing him hs sebody and loving himself,bein msanenav h detetuen >> [inaudible] your agenda of reparations should be putn the table too for -- [inaudible] >> especlly fcinating brrs ast h- y d wa t quick word about reparations? i'll say a quick word too. >> you know, it was in the 1988 when the first george bush but ronald reagan set it in motion, i mean, allele bot agnd -ey

ob, kn cis w,gh mpared to ore republicans. other republicans. but the reparation at that point was $20,000 to each japanese-american family which if you think about it, right, lo fheri,arei of theseolks eeld,ir it arouw? and many of the young men who were then drafted out of the camps, you know, i mean, that's crazy, you know? you imprisoned my family, then you're going to ask me -- well, youmprison me me fr nt aousk urmoych't take part of? i understand 20,000 is a lot -- i'd take $20,000 right now, but, you know, it was such a gesture, you know, kind of a it is in this time of model minority and, manehe cf years after the by we put those people to rest, we'll keep them quieter by giving them 20,000. my feeli on reparations was,

you know, the investme in education that we have been talking about. i was thinking throughou this whole past centu when we're pped to be the li yw,ve llhetum any century, right? and we've been in a war in asia since the 1940s. i mean, you could include the philippines since the 1890s, sot bt 'sinoaa. those drones, why can't we get it to those kids? harlem, china town. that's the way i see it because everybody's going to say, oh, dachle gtiing to bthat ki paonndvedy going to say that they're going to stereotype african-americans, and i think we can have a constructive conversation about whether would inst that money. >> yes. think fore rat

amllou jice, but justice is preceded by acknowledging the mage done and who is responsible. so you have slaery. almost 75 years under theu.s. nsti u.onuts prce o 80 some years. the americans don't like to be reminded of that. it's just the truth. if you don't come to terms wit the truth, you reap whatyou yo g taphaou so then the question comes, first, you've got to acknowledge the damage done, and then the reparations are just repair. but we know the reparations themselves county even begin to get at the sferi've tminec ye t mon besth bottom of the atlantic, and you can't bring them back. the last 40 years in our hoods and ghettos, the

socially-neglected, onomically-abandoned, and they'r tied to the ensof th tanstes 't care what color it is. as i said before, you see, i would be concerned if it was white, red, brow yellow, whatever. it's a spiritual question, you see? but you had to g folk to acknledgthe tth,nd atercht its t tissues of this racism being so subtle and covert and also overt all at the same time, you see. so that the issue of, syou had to continue to to puthe th- tk,amoe striefly, take brother mitt romney now. now, he's part of a persecuted group. anybody know the history of the mormon brothers and sister, what is it? vicious attacks. killed, to groms -- togrs, push o me.w ped i t e mo and ca

back to utah, what did he get? reparations. you see? now, i'm in many solidarity with the mormon brothersnd sisters because i don't like folk geinrseced matr bueny bhe rras. 2years of slavery and 90 years of jim cw and another 44 years of jim crow jr. and no talk about rarations? double standard. something's goinon. we've got tooint that hypocrisy out. d m onti paon erastolen! no of course, in the end the fundamental question is our precious indigenous brothers and sisters, what kind of reparations they going to g when mhatt useto ir nden aicse b anuee ty don't have to be in the room for us to be hypersensitive to their suffering. on moral and spiritual grounds. and all the reparations in the

world are not going to be suicie, buthers wh aowmeof i caama w owe cmes against humanity committed. that's acknowledgment. tell the truth about it. [applause] and then go on to the 311 reservations we've still got in place, and then how do you insure thattheir children are treated decentl likeblac brn, reel h? owy dsi he d a question when i first walked in. and i didn't want to overlook you. >> [inaudible] very important issue. now, what i'talking about is spificly aut wme coerhabonsre the whole humiliations of wanting to have to have a device, you know, put up into your uterus and soorth and so on, either that orno i'sme wna twh ye g avoee aic of your unborn child. i could understand to the fact

that there is also an assault on black you children, but this isow going too far. this has go too far. cait'sefinelyimedt w itbo wng th womb off altogether. give you a choice, what do you want? you want this child that you're going to bring into the world that you feel that you don't want, because if you do, guess what? it's going twind up in prison. anndg co.cerned abohat >> eloquently stated again. we got a high quality -- well, we always do at hue-man. t i just say ditto. i think that we have the to highlight it, acptit,ig ofenisir no matter again what color, but it is primarily poor women we're talking about. so there is a class dimension to this thin that's very important. but we just ha to stand with 'ed torais tss

arf nion orvents that's trying to cast the limelight on the issue and then try to educate the way that brother matt was talking. you want to say -- >> i was just struck by how the presentative hio who waed ofth cbe a aney what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? i mean, if you're going to give men viagra, well, we're going to go check it out, you know if if u're going to have a transvagin -- i've got two daht noha if i didn't have two daughters i wouldn't be on the side of women, but i feel deeply invested that this such an invasion, a violation, right? and everyone, you know, there arpeople who take it as a joke, oh, sh irodud ts him e rt i actually think that's -- it caught my attention. yeah, the attk on women just

in general right now from the right, you know, with th young woma limbaughtager r b autu k? >> oh, right. >> you know, this unbelievable attack on women of all colors, and then susan g. komen pulling out of planned parenthood. i mean, these are all very sturbing tres. fromarigth ntvent al that they could crawl into your bedroom, right? through the key hole into your bedroom, right? >> yeah. dear brother. >> i was looking -- [inaudible] [laughter] >>aue] conclusion, okay? talking about black, brown, red -- [inaudible] people from all gin.

early '70s, went on to the late '70s, okay, started in the '80s, grouping for the most part was eliminated, okay? i think the problem pma w tngut ucn. unless we -- and this is my own particular point of view. unless we can talk about giving our children some form of education in terms of wt hahed nd'mot necessarily talking about dr. george washington carver or frederick douglass, but our real history, okay? [iibs egan yearsag unless we can talk about that, then we are going to be faced with situations that are

constantly the way we're facing the situation right now. so i think thatre wiurhin and say this is our real history and not what you have in these books that, for the most part, are coming out of texas where tey're even talking a n oay stleivgh h. >> well, i know here in harlem, u know, i was just at wattly a couple of months ago struggling th this attempt to cse scols wn. adiat hee an announcement they're closing down 64 schools. in a chocolate city. to be replaced by either charters or somevad del atesve m fft thicst ilthh.

to be educated as a human being and a citizen, not just a consumer, so that the battle between the democratic model of education which has todayith pong- which has do hu bgs citizens and the market model and more and more for-profit institutions are in education because there's a $500 billion cow waiting for folk just salivating to make moy on it, for profit profit, pfit. because livinsoy,s fo sry'sp'sp sale including public education. and once public education is weakened and feeble, your democracy is about gone. p because you can't sustain a democry wiout noti o puduon congo ucn. it's all privatized. everybody just consume what they gain, and survival of the slickest.

the 11th commament, thou shalt noget caht. [lghte rlitsve erin inkou na on the head in terms of the battle for education, especially with those two models at work. we got the last word, my dear brother matt. >> no, i think that's su an sof liacthondhe hn n on iri. i mean, i think the west coast is a little farther ahead of us on this, right, in t sense of trying to organize and protest. but that prospect is just so frightening, you know? ch ener o ong, i mean,he esident taught if around little while would not even -- taught for a little while would not even know about the japanese-american incarceration. it's gng to be out ofhe xt iree sme ow anu. will z. [laughter]

thank you so much. >> love you, love you, love you. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. 48 hours of nonfiction authors and booksery weken er ath bestsling nonfiction books according to "usa today." this list reflects sales for the week of july 12th.

>> you can find out more about these bestsellers by going to "usa today".com and clicking on life. >> this weekend on botv, ses hekyatsowd eapo filit from full body burden, kristin

iverson looks at the effects on the environment and the people today at 7 p.m. eastern. and sunday on after words, peter llier on the life of jean pak. ar i hpn, ve waia accept, you know? and she saw the dominoes start to fall during this time. and by 1979 she was in full-fledged opposition to carter and wt she saw as er; ppme paul caln this respect, in 1979, she saw the fall of the shah and the fall of simosa in nicaragua, a couple of lacerating experiences for her and people like her. su n a 9.ical wom bi and at 10, marine sniper and author of jarhead, anthony swaf ord, on life since leaving the military. all part of booktv this weekend on c-sn2

el au sths gizrre the jacob jahvids convention center for bookexpo america, the annual book publishing industry's convention in new york city. and one of the publishers represented heres the yale unsity pss hn dicthecof that press. mr. donatich, we wanted to ask you about some of the books coming out this fall. i'm going to start with former congressman mickey edwards has a new book coming ou inst cctkey edwards is a ta ngma bl f ho norkfor the aspen institute with some gigs in between at princeton and harvard. and he's taking a look at basically how our political process has bee paralyzed by thebipartisanship lack of prs t.a d as n of real practical steps he wants to suggest how to fix the

process. one, the house should not hold -- the house speaker should not hold an office, he should tually denounce hisar henk thirtf dictsh b privated and done with an independent counsel. the book is an analysis of the problem as it stands and also a kind of of way to fix it. really interesting. >> and he was a congressn back in the '80s, early '0s. prtoe' been at harvard. right now he's a senior officer at the aspen institute, a think tank out in the boulderarea. so ptty amazing career. susan jacoby is anuthor faar totof o ew aeroy h i >> so this is a book about one of the sort of great atheists in e political process who in the late 19th century actually ran for president and had a huge, listcryof sportor att thact that he was

pushing a completely secular agenda pissed a lot of people off. and so his campaign was stopped short by peopl who had a real interest inreing urndat n oeno sng to this topic. she did a book a few years ago called "free thiers." ingersoll was a character in that book, and she was so fascinated that she decided to do a properookength ud lo soe t de the election right now. >> wanted to ask you about an author that i am not familiar with but a lot of our viewers will be? >> wole okaisinib it aoburte, won the nobel prize for fiction, and this is a book where he really wants to take a look at sort of

the popular bias and the sort of glal condescension that haens eneothin abo ant'rt t us book written several decades ago called or -- orientalism, took a look at how the west takes a look at the middle east, basically, and he anthsoft kdof rili rsivfo this book. it really is about sort of the western glare or glance at africa and how we sort of con descend to it, even -- condescend to it, even e sort of well-intentionedolics likeeparions yoow ndarnsr nian asn air of condescension as if the west needs africa to be the sort of fix to our conscious in a way. real denncinheten,ing he' not ofertyhat ces wi

it. so that's one of the things that's really interesting about the book. he also thinks it's impossible for westerners to understand africa. it's not a hegemonic continent, byhich i meant's tne pele, it'not eio thry o naon-states as opposed to tribal states is a very western concept. and at the root, i think, of a lot of the misunderstandings we have about africa. so it'a book thoest re wl rpt wri i chaen of them, and to my mind, it's one of the most profound books. >> do you know where he live and will he be touring the u.s.? >> well, that's unmplicated. ads.ctually hasn uli th, e a big security contingency. so we hope -- in the meantime, though, he's had a lot interest from major think tanks and theaters, so we'll try to do some things.

we'll do them very carefully, wi secury, i h h ye 'se be,o eso hink he'll do them again. so more to come on that. >> john donatich, how many books a year does yale university press publish? are you associate with the the university? >> we are, we're a department completelywned by te er, reut lln pshso middle-sized indepdent publisher. we publish in four different areas. we have an art list that is composed of a couple hundred books, and that is books that we produc we also distribute and co-publishbo6us nelurotan museum of art, art museum of chicago, and, you know, a couple dozen others, and that's really a wonderful thing. we have a trade list, most of the books we' talking about today are what we call cross ers, s wter deuce. hve an academic imprint

which is purely research driven and pure bids really kind of thing. and finally, of course, with programming. so 400. puheow hur epdent ge t l ce years, e-books, etc. >> you know, it's interesting. i think that fo the last several years it was more radical than it's been in the last year. i think things are rt of stabilizing, they're gtting more predictabl stsp aor s n seems to be steady and something we can get ouarms around. we publish most of our pure te-driven, narrative-driven books simultaneously as e-books and print books. knthnivsi ofeec those books and the pure opticness of beautiful books, those have knot gone digital -- not gone digital at all. so we're experimenting with that. >> and finally one more

boseme hhat, is that something that you follow closely? >> i do follow it closely. but at this point is, um, it's so old -- [laughter] so ioninounog on. ar l tbt at'soing happen. so -- >> john donatich is the director of yale university press. this is booktv on c-span2. >> you're watching an interew inry anal tade show. for more information visit bookexpoamerica.com. >> in an event hosted by the catholic imaonenter, billon as t t ntldb sale ketenwayrom the good work that the catholic church does. s