w rkheas k errych technically ran from the hudson river to the state of delaware. ..

lvpud fut did not go all the way to the pacific. then discovered that people there had very nice first. other merchants inmsterdam she binterested in theerris. fura. then, with a small base of farmers and some soldiers as part of what became the dutch west india company eire in inditltic. atem tlu a couple small islands in the caribbean for a little while, big parts of brazil in some posts in africa as well as north america. coveotch

liou regeason. >> a commercial reason, yes, but it was tied up within the broader goals of dutch imperialism, which at the time was to attack terto f sir. peter stuyvesant, the most famous governor of new netherland began his career fighting for the dutch and brazil. then heent t caribbe thennlen come up to another island. so his career kind of shows the connection between all of these places even though benevolent was not on the frontier.

>> everybody at the higher level in the dutch west india company care very mh abo rig enh itasng mpanhe it w hav this military objective, the dutch were still fighting for independence from the spanish, the spanish, spain was an emre. it hadlaim for sovereignty, but it was also, ooue, usan p t dutch were protestant. all of the major founders of the dutch west india company were in the netherlands eablished work pretty strict. ceaiy of t. >> so where is their religious liberty part of this? wh are we -- what key are we missing here? >> well, i undertook the study stenias a gdu nto utf the story

of american religious diversity. struck me as something very interesting and important about america that we have so many different religions and yet we have neverad one sgle ofialelionik y ai.l a fer and it seemed that there was some aspect of that fact as part of what makes american society very different from european societiewere you did he ose foal eabsh ur he cf acan religious freedom, one of the origin point that people refer to for where this toleration and diversity comes from ishe dioreroader debtbenevolence system which even though it had an official church nev forced

people to conform to a single religion the the glrcor emp s w csed puritans to leave and go to newfoundland. so ihought by looking at what the dutch did we would -- and this is what i had been led to believe by sucholsh a isd,t wld s t gigsdicty eran way of handling religious diversity, a more tolerant way, a more loose, easygoing, sort of attitude. and actually, did not find anything le that all. foundery tt cnen twwhhech at colonial americans and u.s. americans do afterwards. so it is slightly misleading title, perhaps, and that is the answer to t qn posed by lethrey rytlon bwe

that's tolerance and american religious liberty. >> when it comes to the dutch did they write and res about yesgion? a aml oe tcitio or the union of utrecht thabrought the different dutch provinces together and was basically their constitution until the 1790's, ca, pd ribty onnc and forbade the coercion of religious belief. so right from the beginning you could not do in the dutch republic what was considered normalnhe oerom eechs f opoonrm t national church, which was, of course, in that country, considered the true, correct form of religion. the dutch rejected that from the very beginning.

however, they didoen ci crcth chu this, i learned, was the real key to understanding what was distinctive about the dutch because they did not force everybody to belong to the official religion of the state, which w tutefd we this, if you no dutch society, there is a very big difference to what the dutch allow you to see in public verses what is possible a private. and i public there was only one churchha cld b visib ohuhatld be edh t ste with the higher levels of office, with all sorts of privileges, even though it was subordinate to the state, it was only this one church, the dutch reformed op to be dutch reformed, if

you wanted to get ahead in this society, chancesre you might join the search. >> how was nin of those interviewed by the rest of the coloes, e o atimni. >> well, what is interesting is nederland, wha i found a the end is very significant about the netherlands for american histor. as tliyiffent tcto w s i twn the famous new in bus story of the puritans and the southern story of virginia, maryland, the chesapeake colonies. thmp a t teof those places ry morxcti of ryland, you had a belief in a single church, and you had enforcement of a single religion. haho ruling class over

a largely protestant group. the majority was a virginia, new england, belonging to one single sech. peophoou n oou intte would have to flee. some would go to maryland. a few went to ryland, but a number of people fromew england came to new netherland with a found a much more to.sceben and mucore >> professor even haefeli, to you teach? >> i teach courses on colonial american history, the american revotion, native american history also verympnto ey ic expie whend also american religious history. >> out the research 300 year-old

religious history? where did youtart th ts bo whe did y elourtit arha teoof done. very reliance on scholarships that have come before us which provides a very useful guide command in the and you just go back to theriginalrc heas netand v lhaanatupnlbany called in the netherlands institute which has, for several decades now, collected and transcribed and organized many of the crucial sources relevant fo my tknow what wasry. very important is getting at the dutch context of another oil story, so i had to go back to another lens, the archives in halsiguserlands, amsterdamh

relevant to new netherlands, the hague, which has the official archives. and then also all books and bifocentshe evidence and ches. and it -- on the one hand it is not like doing modern u.s. history. you don't have mounds and mounds of sources to go through, but on the other hand you have to find things and you have to piece together bits of edencf l pspapwh indhaengind rewarding. >> so what is the takeaway of people read this book? what you want them to remember? >> well, i gsshe ini m. the first is that there is the dutch contribution. i'm not trying to decide on that, but it is somewhat mor

and direct than what we are used to thinking about hiy ift at d fe a tterrengt w g and that because they did not force conformity you could have pple like lou turns and some quakers and baptists and hiy inereternn n yd all become it did not chase them out to force them to convert. at the same time, they did not allow them to express their religion in any publicly visible way. that is the oer thing that i uldeoto areat. that sysmd ho wifnt from the english system. and that had the dutch retained haadelioof this area w wld rs, but new and saddam

would not probably have evolved into something quite like amsterdam. instead, it would have been a much more colist, reformed, protestants part of the world ou heuc f in that n ela than the very distinct, divers, new york that we now have. that is actually the real takeaway. enisker fheriguslug for my which, as i realized in my research, that, not the dutch, but the english takeover, is the real crucial parof the story. and what those english to when they takeverhisch c dienom, but the important role of the dutch is that they were here, and there were here for most of the 17th century so that the english people who takeover york

ara vy dife sofen, cingro a v erreou sociopolitical environment and the people who settled in new england or in virginia. and that really makes a difference in the history of new yorknd the history of the middle conies, theidic th jseorknnlv, laware, all of that would have been impossible. instead we would have something that looked much more like a greater conn. of virginia. so the very fact that the dutch were here, that, at least, made coiavelng wence ofen haefeli. "new netherland and the dutch origins of american religious liberty." this is book tv on c-span2 at columbia university. >> every weekendoo tv o ou pgrmius fin ord b. watch it here on c-span2.

>> book tv is a new york city for the annual book expo america . but publishers annual convention th ihafo012. threin ihe fall, but also to some of the different publishers who are here and what they may be presenting as well. now going to introduce you t two independent publiero are going bithmp,oundubsh in brooklyn. dennis johnson, he is the co-founder and, publisher. a publishing house is also located in brooklyn. --t bokn, iennt lina other, to. >> independent publishers and replan? is there any angle to that? >> it is a great place for independent publishers. quite a few very good ones in

brooy itupivmmit s each other regularly. we do events together. it is a good place. also a lot of writers and replan. >> as a kind of deveped to fir ea.vtea? our of it is the publishing has a natural home in new york city. frankly, most independent puishers and most writers can't support -- afford to live in manhattan and many more. gontly bou hall, sponsors the brooklyn book festival of which i am one of the organizers which happens every september. this would be our seventh year coming up. i think that has actually been a th bok lerylnizing eventor ha mes he actually put that thing together every year.

it has become, thinkone of the greatest literary events in america every year. the other fact that it contrite gatly heardn midtown manhattan, most of the people that work there also live in brooklyn. when you have something like the brooklyn but festas of only the great in the publishers who are therand all the great writers d lid in brooklyn, but jus a lot of blisng peoe,nd it t fest for books. think that is one reason a lot of publishers are drawn. >> well, give us a brief history of novell.@ >> well, maybe an example of@ wee alou m@@ngbo@ kin tle,yife d@@@ invented in the third floor@@@@@ walkup in hoboken, new jersey.@@ after we had done a couple of@@@ brooklyn but festivals we were@@ so in love with ts scene in@@@@@ coanthaneiel@

o we were founded ten years@@@@@ ago almost to the day.@@@@ we were kind of responding to@@@ the political s@cene at the@@ fofi@ht by the call to arms@@@@@ and felt very motivated to foun@ a place that was more ais@@@@@ be bay mer ic ae a@ ministration.@@@ >> were you working in opposing@ industry?@@@@ >> no.@@ i was a short story writer.@@@@@ i graduated from the iowa@@@@ writers workshop.@@@ criticism under a lot@@@@@@ about the industry.@@@ i really nothing.@@@@@

i feel i knew nothing of the@@@@ book industry until i become@@@@ publisher.@@ and most of the trends i was@@@@ ki hsh@@aut i rlly@@ alorked, how books that@@@@@@ made them get to the market.@@@@ and now i still kind of keep up@ with journalism on our block an@ commenting on the industry, the@ pect@@re froier t n >> started in 1997. we published one book. i started t company with a couple o friends. t i warngy odinlang rock-and-roll music actually. playing in a car, to fellow band gold rose againstoys. we had a lucrative couple of years. it was a sort of a when. >> i d not know ts p o urry meer a b

n gis gh figure? >> i will not disclose that information. not enough. a good living. >> aga o tota pshg om oaim std aoue of friends who were also musicians. one of them had an unpublished novel. that wasn't what we started with, but the fact tt he had an ample this novel put us in the same aubg bos. inapan. had -- none of us had any experience in the book publishing businesses before becoming a publisher. i actually think that has given me a leg up. i don't know about you, but i feel a lot of people in the publishing business are buened withhirtf h ofhe miinmpnc rare or i don't actually feel that literature is diminishing importance. think it is a great time to be a

publisher. i think that there is a well is the spit in book publishing. hiotavth pes,av auron and a tear about it or a lack. >> conduct business differently. well we did not discover, sure, you point to the same process, the book industry nuts. a lot of ttreg of@@@@ the way people operate@@@ contractually return.@@@@ a crazy business.@@@@ it's really not like a lot of other businesses@.@@ you d a bins.@@@ it's a very strange business.@@@ we have a lot of people from@@@ business, consultants only@@@@@ started, and i can make any@@@@@ sense of this.@@@@@@ you're runng aroun so you make it up.@@@ jgeige it@ wyo t ieog@@

y@ n s later, 12 years are@@@@@@ now, it was a good thing that w@ did it that way.@@@ we found a dferent way too. >> cpltehe b t eer hatotens. i think one of the challenges of being a book publisher is you do need to always be reinventing yourself and exploring new ideas. if you get to the melville office from outside and look at all the variou itiate tt eyhe iz and it a list of books and the integrity that they bring, you will see much pressure indusy to energy coming out of what they're doing them from the mainstream business, which like hars fein boror cgh in >>t he name? do you have a point of view? appotive you.

>>o theord is s. onptf gnt lra barolos record. it is a little bit deceptive because it has a new age nnotation to it. th w noter m t are familia wit ut it. avn diverse list. republic 25 to 30 books a year, and it is mostly fiction. we also have a generally speaking sort of progressive political orientation to what we're doing. howeve idoe t bst ib fridst do riwiut o li. i am not -- i'm not trying to be ideological in the publishing program. on the other hand, the books that we publish our true to my own personal passion for issues ofocia jusce >>ehodlldhat came out with the best seller,

go the f to sleep. did that put you on firm financial footing? >> like a said, we publish our first book in99 w satinwi and a lot of smoke and mirrors and financial just desperation up until 2011. patwiou cldn.ren's bk. jto book hig hopes for, but the way it delivered was far beyond anything that we can ever imagine. it is right now, the first time in our company's history were there is anything remotely resembling financial stability. soreng rm. >> book companies put together the way a lot of people make in the films. you get a credit card out and you pray a lot. you can't bit - for emple,@

you can get people to bac a@ publhingomny. 't kowta recu no venture@ capitalists is going to put@ money into an industry with tin@ , tiny margins like this.@@ so you really have to scrape an@ scrape scrape. i think survival is just this thing that feels like a process@ d y l l engu wte@ tasco@ came up with the project.@@@ the guy that wrote this, you know, a guy he knew.@@@ >> the melville house but th@@@@ people may be familiar with?@ >> well, a book by a writer world r iraho di 1 we rediscovered a book of this

called every man dies alone tha@ we then sold around the world i@ huge numbersthe round the world .@@@ tuyor thenomenon. the book that had not been translated. when we had some success with it , one of the biggest publishers in the world cpi enaneteste sshe tig t inhe u.k. >> just in the quake. >> right. >> t stock was some of the upcoming fall 2012 titles the both of your houses have.

mct'ys e or. >> best known these days as the illustrator of kobe have to sleep which is a very playful book. sery is an interestingoo a it is a serious nonfiction book that is also illustrated. a short book, about 50 pages long, beautifully, beautifully illustrated. it tells some of the history of the coca-co companyt m itotha tax coca-cola. however, it is a book that sheds light on how critical was able to achieve this very unique trade status whereby coca-cola the l ed wlddehe fain ca-la. granted, they do extract the cut came out before they use the

leaf in the making of coca-cola. this is a book that doesn ths eprn. interesting correspondence between coca-cola and the year as its government showing how was they use that a policy in order to get these attentionn otcoy ofea tt dt a butif book to look at. it does not condemn ca-cola. the author drinks coca-cola himself. it will be the most popular soft kng ttitbohe world how they conducted their business. >> i wanted to ask you about john macarthur's upcoming book. the outrageous barriers to democracy of america

he book was written b rick@ macarthur.@ he was the publisher and kind o@ a savior of the mazine.@ the head of the macarthur@@@@ mahuoundation.@ his magazine and continues to@@ make that such a great in@ important magazine of the left. he is from chicago and well versed in chicago polics. he reallntedo tak abo explie that one person just can't do it anymore. the system is rigged. even someone like obama who seems like a progressive person and made a lot of promisesbo licsst'tern emthst this is actually a follow-up to a previous book called you can't