now, after we looked at that, that is one of the indications. everybody automatically assumes that a polarized country, you know, people think that's terrible. that means there's conflict in all of this. ..

and survey the public on whether or not they voted. after every election somewhere in the range of 75 to 80% of the public claims to have voted and we know even in the presidential elections about 50%, so that means 20 -- somewhere in the range from 20 to 30% of the american public is willing to fly to a complete stranger and say they voted when they didn't. that's funny in itself but what it tells us is there is an incredible pressure in this country that we are socialized you've got to vote. get out there and vote so people are embarrassed. and so they are more comfortable lying to somebody about it than they are saying they didn't do it. so that tells me that americans tend to think participation is important, and if that is the case our result suggests that as

the country, as people, not as a country but let's say at the individual level as people's attitudes become more and more polarized they are more likely to participate. so if the internet is indeed polarizing people, perhaps a positive side is increased participation. gregg herken discusses the background and relationships of robert oppenheimer, ernest lawrence and edward teller, three physicists responsible for the creation of the atomic bombs dropped over japan in a world war ii on august 6th, 1945.

>> lawrence is the man of bounce. he was the organizer the man who actually deserves more credit than he has received for organizing the atomic bomb project that everybody in the historical literature talks about the einstein letter of august, 1939 that would have been roosevelt, that would have been nothing had it not been ernest lawrence to get things rolling. his observation at oak ridge was the operation that separated the so called calutrons named after of kristopher university of california if there hadn't been lawrence there would have been no atomic bomb at least not on the schedule that it was completed. and lawrence in many ways is the apprentice of the story that he is the man who built the great psychotronic, the idea that he was sort of a pure scientist he wanted to push forward the frontiers of science but that same machine will be modified in said to the bomb that destroyed

on hiroshima is the unintended consequences of scientific convention. the next slide please. i found lawrence only interested to put him in the context of oppenheimer and teller she was the man in the middle of that famous viewed and once you start looking at oppenheimer he steals the show he is a purist in the experimental list lawrence amana the man at berkeley teaching here taught so he could read the hindu classics and the original. a man that is very much otherworldly. almost exactly the opposite of lawrence who was the meat and potatoes, the experimentalist, the man most at he is with a solder gun in his hand. next slide, please.

>> so the book became about all three men. i told friends the atomic gilgamesh. it's an epic in its scope at least its ambition. next slide, please. i didn't anticipate who would be a major figure but develops into one in the book is robert oppenheimer's brother who was eight years younger, frank. it was sent on oppenheimer himself i should mention a quote from the book itself that oppenheimer is described by a female friend as a jewish pan with wild blue eyes. another friend he said his face was that if an overgrown choirboy but suddenly why isn't terribly innocent in that picture if you remember. frank and robert, frank was always laboring in his older

brother's shadow. robert oppenheimer would admit that he was protective of frank. in some ways perhaps part of a father to him. next slide, please. oppenheimer and lawrence were not only worlds apart in the personalities he is adolescent had seen the sec to give it a psychiatrist for depression and had once contemplated suicide. he wrote that he found earnest unbelievable vitality and love of life his friends most endearing trait his interest was primarily active, instrumental and mine just the opposite. the two men quickly became close friends while still bachelors looking at the faculty club lawrence and oppenheimer double dated together spending thanksgiving at yosemite and going horseback riding on the weekends are around the berkeley hills. next one, please you have

oppenheimer with his levis and jean shirt looking at the camera stands almost enigmatic and you have lawrence looking straight on into the camera there he is, nothing hidden. and just from the book as well. oppenheimer originally thought she was an curious affectation until he realized growing up in south dakota actually lawrence was from canton south dakota he looked upon horses as draft animals for earnest it was a way of distancing himself from his roots. next one, please. it started at berkeley in 1929 when both men were here. also maybe from the beginning both have different visions of the physics would be at

berkeley. laurence believed experimentalists would come around the world to use cyclotrons and they did. he described him as a mecca and paradise of physics but it was a desert where a theorist like him could make a mark that he had no competition in the theoretical section of the physics department at berkeley. next one, please. one nice thing writing a biography is you get to go where people live and bother their neighbors and can't on the lawn and take pictures and what have you. this is where he lived when he was a bachelor. he enjoyed his life there very much. his landlady lived upstairs that was maryellen washburn active and progressive cause in berkeley she had been affected parties often times of the house for the spanish loyalists for california farmworkers and was because of those parties or through those parties that oppenheimer met a number of his leader political friends at this

house and that those parties he became introduced to the people who publicized him and by some definition to civilized. robert wrote frank that the house afforded a view of the city and the most beautiful harbor in the world that he enjoyed life greatly and have gone out and bought an alarm clock so he could attend his class's in time. it soon became the scene of the right parties fuelled by the trademark for-1 frozen martini's served in glasses whose rim's were dropped in line jews and honey. they were unused to find the top physicists of their generation the trunk encroached on all fours as playing a version of tiddlywinks on the geometric patterns of oppenheimer's rug. being from one thing i always wanted to collect as an artifact was oppenheimer's hat and i did

get to know peter oppenheimer, his son who lives in santa fe and when i was there visiting one time i happened to ask peter i've looked at the papers of your father in the national archives and everyplace else i can think of you have anything any artifacts? there's a couple boxes downstairs so i prevailed upon him to bring the boxes and hoping it might be the hat but in fact it was oppenheimer's tax records. which were somewhat interesting in themselves, but there was the next slide, please this is theqb rub that peter reverse his father carrying place to place when they travel and he remembers the physicist playing tiddlywinks on the pattern of that.

next slide please. this is where oppenheimer went every summer in august after the session was out she would take a select number of friends, graduate students, friends like lawrence and they would retreat to what he called the sanctuaries on 6 acres in the pecos mountains east of santa fe it's a primitive site there's no electricity the only running water is the creek that goes behind it and this is where he retreated after the bomb had been dropped and he wrote a series of soul-searching letters from the cabin. my wife and her friend true of sat there and i think it is probably basically unchanged from what it was in the 1940's. there are indian prince still on wall. peter did live there with his wife for a brief period of time but essentially left the way it had been. the name of hot dog comes from oppenheimer said when he saw the

land and the cabinet level on the long term lease from the surface. next slide. this was may 5th just last year it was snowing that day. here is lawrence of the control of the cetron. it was the 27-inch or the 37-inch. there was a chemist at the lab in the early days who just died recently about two weeks ago but she was one of the pioneers at the lab and he wrote in his memoir which i would recommend called radiant science in dark politics, but he wrote about the early lab this way. in those early days starting the cetron included a single knife switch. the simple act was sometimes accompanied by an answering sparking a crash and blowing out of lights plunging the campus even adjacent neighborhoods into

sudden darkness. hazards abounded, the popular method of locating vacuum laks by effecting was likened by the boys to the race between the explosion and suffocation. the fire was a constant danger. there would be sparking, soaked with oil which is highly flammable and there would be almost daily fires so the boys as lawrence called them would have handheld extinguishers to put the fire out. seemingly oblivious to the smoke water and stench to burn installation lawrence remained resolutely hunched over the controls prison on to higher voltages and more tightly focused beams for as long as the current flowed. i think the next series of pictures show the growth of lawrence's and higher at berkeley. the first cyclotron was 4 inches. the diameter of the face of the magnet was about so. then the cyclotron particle or

accelerator of course than 11 inches, then the 27-inch. this is the 60-inch. lawrence was able to fund his physics research by giving to foundation which were interested in the cyclotron and radioisotopes as providing a possible cure or a least a treatment for cancer for the neutron beam radiation from the psychotronic self - propelled isolate selectively various organs and act as magic bullets and tell the tumor they are in. there's always been a debate among the community as to how much lawrence actually oversaw the possibility of magic bullets in the cure. i think it's fair to say that in the 1930's, the late 30's there was hope this might be the case that there might be a medical application of this technology as it was then. lawrence was accused of selling snake oil by harold urey, but i

think in fact it was legitimate back then, but it certainly did funded the research that physicists did. this is the so-called medical cyclotron and the next pictures of the 184-inch the giant cyclotron. this is the one he thought was going to be the breakthrough in terms of research and physics and understanding better the natural world instead of the variation of the machine called the calutron used to separate u-235 and youtube 38. next picture, please. >> well, general there is a recent book out called racing to the bomb. groves is the person the was the head of the project who chose robert oppenheimer to lead the los alamos laboratory.

it was a major surprise to everybody probably including oppenheimer himself to choose a year is rather than an expert medalist the of the laboratory that will fabricate the atomic bomb. there were call weeks of oppenheimer. he said he couldn't even administer a hot dog stand so the idea picking site with no experience is otherworldly who's the fairest was entirely unlikely. lawrence probably thought he was the most likely one and probably in fact the story is told that lawrence and arthur compton went to groves and told him that if and when oppenheimer doesn't work out, we expect you will come to us and when the laboratory. but in the case of groves, he knew the important thing was if you could find somebody like oppenheimer who could recruit the scientists what he called the group of prima donnas assembled in one place that was the important thing.

that is necessary they could administer themselves but the important thing is to find somebody that had the charisma and the attraction that oppenheimer did. the red lead after pearl harbor and as lewis had said it was a security consisted of a law student who was chosen by lawrence and equipped with a shotgun put at the base of the cyclotron told to stop anybody he didn't recognize. i came from livermore the 50th anniversary today and have a new appreciation. lawrence was the man that organized the effort in oak ridge to separate the uranium. next slide, please. oppenheimer, this is his badge at los alamos. director, 1983. next slide, please.

edward teller have actually a chauffeur over to neinstein's home where he wrote the letter. he sort of drops out after that until you get to los alamos. i think it is probably true that he expected oppenheimer to choose him to head the division at the lab and tiller was disappointed when he chose the the guy instead teller as he mentioned was a memoir and was never very good at teamwork and teamwork was a central. >> he was miffed when he was told not to head the division that he refused to go to the weekly meetings of the group and instead oppenheimer would meet with him on our wheat just to hear his ideas.

a teller also refused to do the calculations that had been assigned to him in the division and the hydrodynamics of the bomb so those calculations were given instead to the british mission the physicist's coming from england and that included the next slide, please come individual in the next slide under the code name rest. groves would say in 1954 that he believed from within two weeks of the time the project began with the russians were the real enemy. when it can to espionage not that they were the enemy above the germans or the japanese and he was right about that. the russians have an interest early on from the very beginning of the project and what was going on there was espionage against the manhattan project was a primary target. it was known by the code name

the enormous to the precursor. he realized that the soviets would try to get a vote baum said he was very intent flailing that upon developing the counterintelligence agency and effort as part of the manhattan project he had heads of counterintelligence in the west coast and east coast in the middle and morris was the head of the west coast he was the ranking russian expert at the procedural at the presidio and he has his own interesting personal history that i won't get into in detail. he was born in san francisco but he actually went to russia and fought in the army in the civil war with the white armies were defeated he came back to california and will stipulate senior of the bush up orthodox church. he had no practical experience except he organized camp when he had been in sevastopol in russia since he became the head coach of hollywood high school. but he was also in the army

reserve and after pearl harbor he's chosen to go to the proceed via and becomes the master counterspy catcher. he believed from the beginning that oppenheimer was a soviet agent and in fact he operated on that assumption throughout the world until he transferred him to overseas. this is part of the counterintelligence operation that passion and grove is organized in san francisco in the bay area. this initially was in san francisco a storefront office on market street known as the universal subscription company peace rot chollet offices who were trained to counterintelligence school at oak ridge. dewaal officers but they were plain clothes for this occasion. when the army found out that the action was in san francisco but

across the bay in berkeley they moved over to oakland so they could save the charges on the telephone and they also renamed themselves the universal adjustment company. somebody apparently at one time knocked on the board and wanted to get an insurance adjuster and had to be. this was the secret operation run out of oakland. next one, please. the army had a listing post. this as i remember just east of campus. there was an army counterintelligence corps officer that lived with his family of stairs and in the backroom is where the other agents were. this was before tape recorders recording conversations the recorded conversations the army had a division and with the fbi, the army recorded conversations of the scientists that worked on the project under suspicion. the fbi under secret operations

of two secret programs recorded the conversations and installed bugs as well as wiretaps in the homes and offices of individuals who were known or suspected. the fbi had to programs. they loved acronyms one was for a common apparatus and that was to wiretapping and bugging a high-ranking members of the party year in the area and actually this was a national program and the other program was called communist infiltration radiation laboratory in california berkeley and the focus as you might imagine as oppenheimer this was the army listing post this was the chief target for the fbi and the wartime days. when i took this picture few years ago is told that it

belonged to some of, i don't know who owns it now but the ups for the russians and the base of operations on the west coast. next slide, please. this man here was actually the chief target of both the army and fbi counterintelligence. he introduced themselves as mr. brown. his real name was gregory. he was known to the russians as a great love of mythological code names. san francisco was babylon, new york was tire, washington, d.c. was cartage. if you remember your mythology, it was the boat man who was across the river styx. his job was partly that of a talent spotter to find people who would be sympathetic to the soviet cause and might be recruited and the specter actually a recruitment effort

between kheifets and of the codiscoverer of carbon 14 for which he will later received an award from the department of energy. but his picture will end his career. he's fired the day after it is taken in 1944 because of his association with kheifets. this is a recruitment effort but what kheifets had none is invited tiemann to come and meet his successor and to have dinner with him at the fresh beebee to fish grotto. in the invitation was made both of the fbi picked up the word from their wiretap and the army from their wiretap on the office so they knew about the rendezvous from the fbi and the army and even the office of

naval intelligence it was almost a fist fight one of the agents told me who was going to go inside and sit nearest they had dinner and there were agents all around them they were able to record the conversation picked up by the recorder. a routt lab was heard, tennessee i think was heard, but there's no reason to believe that he gave any real information to the russians. just the fact this was the recruitment effort was enough for the army to say that the was the end of cayman. they wouldn't give him a passport all because of this ill-fated dinner at the fish grove. next slide, please lawrence was a straight arrow he probably didn't realize it but he is the

target of a espionage soviet messages sent from and the san francisco consulate that the russians believe lawrence was a precursor and believed in one message the radiation laboratory was located in sacramento. if you knew anything about lawrence politics she was no progressive professor and they were disabused of that by of your contacts they had, people in berkeley said probably the least likely person to pass secrets on to the soviet union was lawrence. next slide, please. >> so the target for the soviets i think fairly early on by 1942 was robert oppenheimer because not only of oppenheimer's own

political background but because of his association, his friends and his family. next slide, please. tv oppenheimer had been married before to a party organizer on the east coast. he was killed fighting in spain in 1947. i should tell the rest of the story leader. next slide. >> before he married kitty she met jean at the house on the road mary ellen washburn. she'd been a member of the party and was one of the people introduced robert to other members of the party and party recruiters active in this dennis' loyalist cause as well that she is the one who according to oppenheimer's graduate students had the most civilized influence as well as politicized influence on oppenheimer causing them to be

interested in poetry. frank had been a member of the party. he joined when he was a graduate student in caltech. he joined the rank-and-file of the party literally so-called card-carrying communist and have a party identification name, false name f paulson. jackie his wife had been a student at berkeley remember the communist link when she was here when they moved to pasadena and frank was working on his doctorate she was working for the west coast version of people's daily. next slide, please. a french literature professor year at berkeley we know now from documents that have surfaced fairly recently the

include the unpublished memoir of haakon chevalier that in 1927, 1938 robert and probably six other individuals caught haakon would name a joy in it and formed a secret underground unit of the so-called professional section of the party. it was an espionage section it was a discussion group and that is the way robert always described it in fact it was as haakon would say in his memoir something more than at that it was affiliated directly with the party and membership in its ranks was secrets. next slide, please. steve nelson tv was on her way to spain to rendezvous with her husband. she got as far as paris and was told by steve nelson that joe had been killed the connection

between oppenheimer and nelson the became social friends in the early part of the war. steve nelson was the head of the communist party in the east bay but. next slide, please. march of 1943 the fbi under the conrad operation wiretap, but did not only nelson's home but his office picks up a conversation that is between schoeppel joe she had been a member since 1938 he had two sisters, of whom was a teacher in new york. between show and steve nelson and in the course of their conversation joe comes to say that he had information and is working on the project and he has information that he figures would be of value to the comrades and he really is this information with the hope joe

will pass on to the right authorities and steve will pass it along and indeed steve nelson today's leader will meet with a member of the soviet consulate in a park in san francisco and hand over a manila envelope witness and photographed by the fbi. so there's a hunt immediately. this is the first confirmed evidence the army and the fbi have of espionage against the manhattan project to find out who joe is in the sexually joe weinberg who is one of the graduate students in the pictures and max friedman all theoretical physicists working with oppenheimer. in the old days i ander stambaugh there was a fox photo photographer stationed on site and he would take a picture if you wanted a picture taken and then you would buy the

photograph. that's what happened in this case he wanted a picture taken what he didn't know is there was an army counterintelligence agent in the background and after the what we the agent went over and bought the - and so they were therefore able to identify the other four of them or why year tapped and surveiled by the way in the course of that and i've read all the transcripts and telephone conversations that surfaced in the army in archives and it's pretty clear that these three had nothing to do with espionage. there were no secrets being passed from berkeley to the russians with the exception of that conversation with nelson and his home. next slide, please. this is march 1943 word gets back to los angeles to

oppenheimer that his graduate students are under surveillance, under suspicion for spying for the russians. oppenheimer comes back to berkeley and meets with boris and tells a rather involved and incredible story to the effect there is an unnamed intermediary that there is in the espionage going on at berkeley and an intermediary that approached three scientists working on the project and oppenheimer knows that because they can to him and eventually and asked what they should do and he gave him the advice they shouldn't get involved in the sand that was the benefit. he asked who was the unnamed intermediary? he said he is a professor to berkeley and a personal friend he just had a minor role in the side and reveal the name unless ordered to carry the same thing with the three that were approached at oppenheimer will not reveal the names. there was a long effort basically by the head of the

manhattan project security, by almost everybody in the army to find out who the three project scientists were and who the unnamed intermediary was but oppenheimer would only say that he revealed the names if ordered to. next slide, please. this will be forgotten in the war that he's the hero of the moment after the bomb is dropped on hiroshima the story of building the bomb comes out. oppenheimer is known as the father of the atomic bomb and is the cover of the issue of physics today and the issue is dedicated to trends in american science and all the magazine had to do to convey with the trends were is to put oppenheimer on a piece of scientific equipment and convey the message that he

was preeminent in american science and was preeminent in the world. jay edgar hoover throughout this time director of the fbi is still obsessing with a retreat that didn't come forward and who is the unnamed intermediary. hoover from that in the meantime he wants to know who the devotee three are so he has the agents' interview oppenheimer. first the interview chevalier and he tells a different story. chevalier says he doesn't know there was only one person approaching the was robert oppenheimer. a couple weeks later the interview oppenheimer and he now says yes the story that i gave back in august of 1943 was a bull story fabrication that the true story is only i was approached and i did not the problem with that if you think about it is that

oppenheimer now admitted to a felony if he lied to an army security agent about in the espionage conspiracy in wartime and that incident both versions would become known as the chevalier incident and the contradictory versions. next slide, please. >> oppenheimer because of this position in science becomes preeminent as a science adviser to the u.s. government and it was said washington couldn't open the door without finding robert oppenheimer behind at. it's almost true that he became the joint research and development board and primary advisory to the pentagon department of defense and even more importantly he was chairman of the general edify is recommitting to the atomic energy commission the so called atomic brain trust that had people like the nobel prize winner, the president of harvard

standing to his right. it was called at the atomic brain trust, very powerful intellectual group scientists who made controversy recommendations. against the air force nuclear power, and program to launch a crash effort to develop civilian atomic reactors and they believed the british interest but most important against the hydrogen bomb in october 1949 the law that applies almost unanimously that this country should not proceed with development of the next step of weapons of mass destruction the hydrogen bomb the oppose it on practical reasons because of will to get further away from the atomic army in the country basically the stockpile will suffer but even more important the oppose it for ethical reasons as necessarily evil thing considered in any light and else even a weapon of

genocide. it was a controversy of recommendation. it split itself and was opposed by edward teller who 1942 had been promoting the hydrogen bomb and by this time by 1949 is a scientific head of an h bomb lobby to be filled the weapon. other members and organizations involved in the lobby include the air force high command most important the joint congressional committee on energy. >> next slide, please. >> november of 1953 the executive director of the joint committee on atomic energy had been william gordon who was an interesting figure himself but i won't go into detail here he wasn't a man of measure, he was someone who suspected oppenheimer was guilty of espionage from the beginning. he writes a letter to jay edgar hoover it's a long letter he

spends many months and agonizes over but the gist of it is in fact the phrase that is operative but more probably them not robert oppenheimer is a soviet agent. this is the cause, the impetus for the investigation that will take place in the spring of 1954 and is there no 1i left out and that is tough louis probably the most powerful enemy at oppenheimer in washington as the chairman of the atomic energy commission. he hated oppenheimer for personal reasons. there was a hearing on isotopes a few years earlier. oppenheimer wasn't one to suffer fools. he felt that his position in this was foolish. so oppenheimer who was arrogant made fun of him in the congressional hearing hancock strauss never forgot or fergie

for oppenheimer. but he was a primary force behind the lobby for the each bomb so they can to opposition. he was the chief figure behind the hearing. it was his engineering that caused it to take place. the hearing was on like a trial. it was a secret administrative procedure that unlike a trial you are not allowed to confront your accuser. it takes place in secret. the rules of evidence do not apply. there is no appeal except to the commission itself as the deputy lawyer told me it is not much more than a kangaroo court but this is a mechanism that and

because they did collude on this and this is clear from the fbi files this is a mechanism by which they are going to remove oppenheimer from influence and from washington. the way they do that is with -- well, next slide. the hearing goes for three weeks in april and may of 1954 the0by! his transcript but this is the climactic, and we're basically the prosecutor is hired by the occasion confronts oppenheimer with a story that he told back in 1943 and oppenheimer didn't know he was reported he was coming into the other room and he gave the original version and then confronts him with his 1946 version he said only he had been

approached and confronts him with a question of why did he do that and oppenheimer's incredible answer is because i was an idiot and gives no other defense, no other explanation of why he had committed this felony. you here. [laughter] you have to read the book. [laughter] maybe i could be -- all right i will tell you but you have to read the book anyway. it turns out there was a fair version of the chevalier incident that i didn't know about and nobody else knew about because only two people knew it and they kept it secret, but gross finally flew to los alamos in the summer of 1943 and he said i'm ordering you to give me the names you wouldn't give and

oppenheimer said okay the unnamed intermediary was haakon chevalier but i will give you the other names if you promise not to go to the fbi, and groves who basically was commissioned it in the army and the bureau, the bureau had no reason to know about what are the project people were doing at the lab and he also believed that in the three had to be three of the four in the picture i just showed you they had to be these students so he said okay. and what he then heard surprised him that oppenheimer said there was one person that approached me was my brother, frank so frank has been brought in to this as well. i think the explanation behind the statement is that rather than saying, rather than having robert oppenheimer say i did it to protect my rather, he decided, robert decided he would

sacrifice his own career and his own future and do what he had learned in the ethical cultural school he went to in manhattan which the important thing is to do the noble thing when the crunch comes and i think that this was his expression of that and as lot the new every wall they found out about this. they kept the story until -- wealthy kept the story until the hearing that he found out about it because his successor on the joint committee can to the bureau and said there is a story that isn't in our file and then i don't think you know about it by herd the involvement. once he found out about that, she not only had of the nine are guilty of a felony and could use that but he had grove's guilty of a felony, too because he had never revealed this and he lets him know that. this is the file of the 7300 pages long and it's all laid out

he calls him in and he finds out she knows about this and he comes in and it's always been expected that he would be the witness for the defense in the case because he always defended him as recently as 1950 and said he had no question of is the right decision he would do over again he's rehearsed these questions before the hearing and when he goes to testify he is oppenheimer security clearance is asked do you consider robert oppenheimer a security threat a security risk and he doesn't answer directly but he says i think you can tell by what i to that in other words it is a jury a equivocal statement and in fact, yes. so that's the story. that is the explanation for why oppenheimer says this and it may

also be oppenheimer's past that and disclosing the party and the story that he told and only she and groves new and get it a secret from 1943 to 1953. that may be why robert oppenheimer and like sakharov human rights and on the arms race. when oppenheimer is denied clearance and goes back to princeton no longer goes to washington his membership on the committees he chaired because he clearance, oppenheimer never takes a public role she never comes out and discusses the arms race and i think that may be because he felt he had things to figure again but that is all speculation. next slide, please. i think that the chevalier

incident finished off oppenheimer has any possibility of giving the appearance. but he went up to make sure that oppenheimer would never come back again he needed a scientist who was an international stature and could testify for the prosecution. we assumed that was going to be lawrence because he had a falling out with oppenheimer in the creation of livermore and other issues. lawrence is on his way to testify and he stops off at a laboratory directors meeting at oak ridge and he is confronted by another laboratory directors and told pretty much no uncertain terms that hearing is going on at this time that if he testifies against oppenheimer he will become a pariah in the community and what is worse from lawrence point of view is the lab also be ostracized and that i think is what would have hurt lawrence more than anything. ever since the fight with tiller over livermore in 1952 had been

suffering from colitis he has a severe colitis attack and he calls him and says he's not going to testify after dhaka and he accuses the firm of cowardice that leaves and other scientists of stature to testify against oppenheimer and the would be edward teller. i wont get into the details here. he claimed he was going to testify for oppenheimer accept 15 minutes before he took the stand he was shown the testimony he had given the day before on the chevalier case and he said that's toller's version of the truth that he had testimony previous to this and his testimony would be when asked under ackley whether oppenheimer should be granted a security clearance within he is a security risk, teller doesn't

say that he is a security risk but he's a complex individual whose motivations have been opaque and because of the reason would be wise not to make clearance. for his friends this was sticking a knife in his back and twisting it and would cause him to be effectively ostracized from this group of physicists he had grown up with and had gone to school within germany.÷t teller denies he says there were witnesses upon this occasion he said i have put the accusers and joined the freshness he's made his choice is going to be intellectually exiled but he will have new group of friends. the next slide. lawrence, sort of running over time here, he is more an interesting figure than he is widely or publicly perceived to be. i think that he is perceived to be a right-wing ideologue. in fact it is lawrence that is the first to propose the bomb

should be used, should be demonstrated before its military use against the japanese. he's also the last to abandon metcalfe. i think he is the apprentice in the sense that he realized he had enabled teller and the h bomb in the case of the creation of livermore he argues that point, to get to be the chosen by eisenhower in the summer of 58 he went to seven tawes the talks and this is from the evidence of people who were there that he was actually a believer in putting an end to nuclear testing i think that he did under the weekend of conversion experience if you will near the end of the life

that he was a conflict that this time she has another colitis attack and is operated on at stanford and they discover in the operation that is circulatory system is basically compromised and he dies of circulatory shock shortly thereafter just at the age of 57. next slide. this is at his brother's ranch until rediker. he stood in of the institute for direct to the custodian but he doesn't speak in very much in the background. next slide. oppenheimer will fly in÷t february 67. this is a princeton commencement he dies of through cancer and you can see this is near the end.÷t next slide. this picture was taken that will

sell most in 1983. this is the 40th anniversary of. ronald reagan had given his star wars speech previous to this march 23rd cannes the teller had come to los alamos to recruit scientists to work and he foundt a very hostile reception from darwin and raviv and others and he said on the plane backs he thought this could be traced back to what happened in 1954 to the oppenheimer case and to his testimony against oppenheimer. this enmity that scientists had for defense projects and at los alamos for him in particular. next slide, please. t like to sort pursue this debate, there is a web site, it's brotherhoodofthebomb.com to read the footnotes can to 81,000

words and i couldn't print allxt of those but put them on the wet site so you can access the miranda download them if he likes to read also documents÷t that pertain to the case especially the documents that haven't surfaced before oppenheimer and chevalier. some photographs that are not in the book that use all and i will update the author notes as time goes on. but that is akaka brotherhood of the bomb. thank you. [applause] questions? >> the question was what was frank oppenheimer doing at the trinity test. frank had been at oak ridge he worked with lawrence on the calutrons that he was invited by his brother to come to los

alamos in late 44 and the curious thing about that is frank didn't have much of a role he was assigned to be the head of the safety unit at the trinity tower where he learned the sort of dues and all, don't carry cameras up in the town for that sort of thing. the rule for somebody that was an accomplished physicist and the speculation he had frank their said he could keep an eye on him. >> friend said that. islamic interviewed frank oppenheimer and los alamos and one of the questions i asked him is what did your brother really say. a few figures in the 1965 nbc planned peter on and dropping the bomb robert oppenheimer's near the end of his life talking about the bomb went off and immediately the words from the lead critiques his foreign and worms the prince now become death of the destroyer of

worlds. the was typical oppenheimer and that its eloquent but it's also after the fact. i asked frank what did he really say because the low-flying together when the bomb went off outside of the control point and he said he got up and said it worked. [laughter] which is only human and reasonable. >> in regards to general groves, i know he hated the labor unions especially the federation of engineers, architectures. he was concerned with espionage but he seemed to me to be considerably blase about the political persuasion and it didn't bother him the preoccupation was successive of the project. did he not have a knee-jerk reaction? did it bother him? >> it think it only concerned him unionizing didn't bother groves, but if it was a

communist dominated union as the army with the fbi then the fet sea was communist-dominated and was closed down by the national labor board during the war at the request of the army. but the other part of this is that he is a pragmatist and he was certainly willing to put up with left wing views that didn't concern him but i don't think he knew the extent to which robert had been active in this closed unit. you can imagine if he had gone to oppenheimer and 71 you to head the project is their anything in your past i need to know about and he said as a matter of fact i'm a member of the post unit of the professional section of the communist party that would be a showstopper the would be an end to it. that is the one thing he couldn't have abided if i want to make this a long answer but the other interesting thing is

groves would get rid of people within his own organization who questioned oppenheimer's loyalty and the guy that was the head of security of los alamos was reassigned overseas and the fellow that replaced him i interviewed recently in he said he got a phone call the first day he was at los alamos from grove c and he said you're doing a good job and i want you to know one thing don't worry about oppenheimer, oppenheimer is my responsibility. so groves was actually protecting oppenheimer from the very start. >> from "the chicago tribune" printer's row breakfast -- >> book tv wants to know. >> he's a professor at the school of business and wonderful book, recommend it highly. i just finished reading a book called currency war. i can't remember the author but its international economics and what's happening to us and i

finally finished a book called unaccountable which will be released in september written by one of the leading surgeons at johns hopkins hospital. from "the chicago tribune" printer's row let test, book tv brings you a discussion with yleth taicago's turbulent history. this is about 45 minutes. [applause] thanks so much. it's great to be here and the greatest weekend i think in all of chicago and i think the greatest topic chicago history which is why we are e