>> host: dr. julianne malveaux, in all of your books and a lot of your writing, useue

the phrase, the real deal is the economic. what do youc. mean?d >> guest: everything a thing boils down too th economics.al obviously there's other factors. due to the bottom, people talk about distribution every year, i write about the economic legacy of doctor martin luther king. people always talk about his i have a dream speech. our children will be treated equally. but they never talk about the part where it says we have come to the nation's capital to cash a check on that check has been marked insufficient funds. that is an economic statement. we talked about the 1%. we are talking about social dissatisfaction, also about distribution. we are talking about mr. mitt romney and his inability to provide his tax return past two years. our society is about who gets what. whether we are talking about

environmental justice, why do you dump the trash and low income neighborhoods? because those folks have less access to lobbyists. if you don't at some place else, would be fighting right away. just reading something about chicago and there is a hospital, the university of chicago wants to turn it into a historic landmark, kind of, and they want to raise it and turn it into a medical center. some of these preservation issues could almost be amusing because it is also way of saying let's maintain the status quo. >> in your book, surviving and thriving, you write, the conflict between participating in a rigged capitalist system and protesting it has been the central tension in my life as an activist. as an economist, you work hard

and you get the benefits. one thing from you understand the unfairness of the system. at the arms and transcend time, you know that if you don't participate in it come you won't get anything. it becomes a complex when you look at the facts. some of my colleagues want to look at the book is a tribute to entrepreneurship. but if you look carefully, i am looking at people who organize people because that is another way of looking at distribution. there was a national and domestic workers union formed back in the '30s. this was stunningly unsuccessful because you had different people and how to get them together. at the same time, that is an economic issue.

again, attempting to talk about the rights of people one of the central tensions of a movie i saw what does she have a boyfriend, and if you do, she doesn't need assistance. so back in the day, that is what happened. looking at the economics, the boyfriend helped pay for the rent. public assistance is doing so. again you have the attention of people who have protested the system and people who are working in. >> who was fannie lou hamer? >> she basically protested the system enormously. she was a hero for many african-american women because of the many ways that she had protested the system. she was being early in her

politics career, but she is one of the people in 1968 went to the floor of the democratic convention. theoretically, there were supposed to be a division between two wings of the democratic party. one of the things i have been working on for the past couple of years and i'm really excited about them as a group of people who are building a statute 200 in her hometown. i have been on the advisory committee helping to raise a little bit of money. but we will be unveiling on october 5. >> in your book, "surviving and thriving: 365 facts in black econimics history", first of all, how did you organize that but? >> there is the fact that they basically. what is said to teachers and others is that you can give people a little bit of information. i didn't really study economic history and they did not teach it in undergrad at mit where i

got my doctorate. but there were things that kept jumping out. first of all, the first black woman to get a phd in economics, and my mentor, doctor phyllis wallace, who is the first woman to graduate with a higher degree and was a professor at mit. a quarter of the people had purchased themselves. then it becomes an economic fact. once you consider that economic fact, you want to look at other facts. african-american people were raised different and know how to survive it. a lot of us are seen at the

periphery of the economy. the outside looking in. when you look at these people, they make amazing differences. >> in that book as well coming out to inventors. the traffic light and the golf team. >> absolutely. >> did those two men get wealthy office inventions? >> no. oftentimes they were working for others. none of them were able to get extremely wealthy. they were paid, but not extremely wealthy. in your first book, perspectives of a mad economist, you write that i don't mind raising hell. i thrive on it. i think of hell raising as a useful endeavor in order to raise hell, you have to be an angry person, and that i am. angry and proud. >> yes, that is a sign that there is something wrong. if you live in our society, there are so many things wrong. that is why that book was

written about 1994. at the time, there were a lot of things to be angry about. the whole motion of wage differentials between men and women as well as the different genes function. at this point in time, they don't necessarily see this. they just want to say that's how it is. there was a member of congress who said if you are unemployed it is because unemployment benefits had made you soft. what i wished for her was unemployment. when you look at how hard and debilitating unemployment is, so many people write about how it bogs it down. especially if you want to work. most people without work once were. my challenge has been to try to be angry about things and not

let it carry over to anger in my personal life. >> one of your books, wall street, main street and the sidestreet coming you write that i am one of those african-americans they can find racism anywhere, in the air, on the ground come in the speed of sound. don't ask me why committed either my altitude or attitude. but more often than i would like to admit, i am persuaded that race matters too much in the way our country is run. >> it does matter even now. this has unleashed a backlash of enormous proportions. and there is a conservative

talkshow host who has talked about michelle obama. a lot of us look at that and say some people would use the term post- racial, but we are not post- racial yet. in so many ways, the trayvon martin case and the number of people that followed him, the fact that george zimmerman was not rest until them months later. i have mentioned environmental justice before. because it is a huge issue. where you put your trash and who actually is the one that has to receive your trash. but even the fact when we look at k-12 education, the fact that young african-americans, especially boys are at the five times the rate of growth, that is a disproportionate reality of girls, just like this to prison and who doesn't. you don't have to be angry because you have attitude.

oftentimes you are angry because it's real and it is literally what real day after day. she said i have to stop reacting to these small typos. >> julianne malveaux company recently sent a tweet congratulating serena williams. but you added, she was there for her country and her country has always been there for her. what did you mean by that? i have had the opportunity to attend many u.s. opens. and oftentimes you sit and watch people in the united states cheer against the williams sisters, which to me, is the height of ignorance and racism.

she is representing the united states of america. if you see venus in the wimbledon, you honor your country. but these young women have experienced a backlash that is almost unspeakable. he didn't think anything except it has something to do with race. >> "wall street, main street, and the side street." when he mean by the site three? remind folks on the trivial economy and the folks that you don't talk about it mainstreet is everybody. the sidestreet is people who are considered everybody. we are talking about economics, paul krugman, i'm recently reading his book, as i was reading one of his chapters, shook my head and said bring in black unemployment. the unemployment rate as we pointed on friday was a .3%.

just a pickup. but mail african-american unemployment went from 14.2 to 14.6. but nobody talks about it. people will not talk about african-american unemployment. there is a report that comes out from the bureau of labor statistics. he says you get up to 15.3%. you are talking about almost 30% unemployment rate. depression level. yet you can watch people dissect unemployment rates, and these things are simply never mentioned. >> and in a recent column you wrote that your website, julianne malveaux.com, republicans aren't -- they are

causing high unemployment. >> there is the jobs at an that was introduced by obama that has a lot of support. the american jobs that will create jobs. there is a lot of unmet need in our society. in my book, "sex, lies, and sterotypes: perspectives of a mad economist", i write about closing the libraries. in the great depression, we did not close the library. in 1996 -- excuse me, 1986, during ronald reagan's presidency, we began to cut back on libraries. it will have to make hard choices. the library that i used to go to is a little girl, it was open every day. now to three days a week.

>> would you grow? >> san francisco. >> wanted to grow their? >> that's where my parents were. my mom was in mississippi and my dad was from louisiana. they met in san francisco we pretty much all grew up there. my baby sister is still there, but i am always the outlier. to how did you get to mit and economics? >> i went to boston college and if i was going to be going to law school. again, i'm the outlier. the wood in my sorority, about a third of them were going to do law. and i thought i would do economics. i has also been encouraged. they had great influence is early on. we had the opportunity to meet a number of people, young people like ourselves, who have been at

mit. at the time, i was an affirmative action baby. the monkey was looking for more african-americans to study economics. affirmative action will open the door, but it will not do anything else. once the doors opened, james brown said open up the door and i will defend myself. you did have to do that. there are a number of phenomenal people do believe that african-americans could do it, and we do. in my class there were four african americans out of 30. that is huge. before there was only one. to have for colleagues to visit regularly, it is an amazing opportunity. >> good afternoon and welcome to booktv on c-span2. this is our monthly program where we feature one author and his or her body of work. this month it is doctor julianne malveaux, author, columnist, former college president, and

she will be with us now for the next two hours or so. if you'd like to dial in and talk to doctor to julianne malveaux, 585, 3881, you can also send doctor julianne malveaux and tweed or e-mail. twitter apple tv with our twitter handle. e-mail is booktv at c-span.org. so you got her phd at mit. what was your first job? >> i worked at the rockefeller foundation and they help support my dissertation research. but i went to the new school for social research to teach. for a that i was doing the teaching thing and enjoying it, also i ran for political office. i did not win, came in ninth.

but i got bitten by the political bug and also the media bug. there was a guy at kgo tv that said, how would you like to do my radio? and that was a lot of fun. meanwhile, fred holborn at usa today said, why don't you do a column for us? that combination push me out of economics were really out of classroom teaching and into some of the media things that i've enjoyed so much. >> "wall street, main street, and the side street" black business and black with us as the chapter. african-americans can make a point and flexor economic muscles by boycotting those who discriminate. that is the bottom line. >> that is the bottom line. african-american people have

$900 billion worth of wealth. depending on who will do the estimate, it might go as low as 850 billion. that is a billion. more than the oil-producing country of niger. that person will have to rethink it. look at the recent chick-fil-a. the people who support thingsth. like the ceo who does not appear

as if they organize a boycott. but on a regular people saying support them by having hisit chick-fil-a day. in that case it is difficult foc chick-fil-a.ycott it m butak the fact is when people ce together to boycott, it makes a huge difference. econom the original most important boycott of black economic was the boy cat with rosa parks. s c sat down a historysitting down and sparking that boycott, it was amazing in a number of ways. white women who didn't want to lose their mates were actually going to pick them up. what about the comments of you

didn't know that? >> you know, they didn't build it by themselves and i think mitt on trent mr. mitt romney was taken while out of context. here is what i think president obama, i certainly can't speak for him. but even if you look at some of the wall street people. no one can take away from your individual initiatives. but when the president talks about his internet, for example, al gore was popular to his own beliefs, but certainly government money funded the way. initially using it for defense and once that information came into the public sphere, you will take that and build it.

she was doing a lot of research for the senior people. i remember people's legislation and being buried in it, it was an exclusive ability to import something, and there are very few producers in the united states. but for social security profession to have written or, only a few producers to create a monopoly. you became rich from that monopoly come you have government assistance in building a monopoly. that is what the president i think, meant. in many ways, government investment that people are helped, more business administration by governments, suggesting that nobody didn't build it, you deserve every credit for having it. especially because people often talk about african-americans.

lift yourself up by your bootstraps. doctor mrk has an interesting quote which i can't repeat. he's at first we give you the land and then we gave you teaching so that you knew how to -- and he lists everything, these are the people who pull themselves up by the bootstraps. another great example is the world war ii ferry. .. the state of mississippi in a two-year period was a 600

african-americans who are left to take advantage of a four year college opportunity when set to dakota told her straight scoreless. now these folks have the ability to compete, but they didn't have the opportunity because of government. lk about what she did by beca yourself. let's get i real. you were able to mask wells because government invested in your wealth.an >> host: julianne malveaux, who is deborah perry? >> guest: she was a cool w commentary at cnn, msnbc.. she's a republican and our stord is very interesting. we were on the air a lot. together. we didn't agree on anything. we talk over each other.l b she said we can just turn both is of you off if you don't get your act together. we came together duringy be impeachment case. so obviously we had nothing in common. but the. energy between us iswee

great and so we ended up to any number of things together. democr a television program where piloting and we had town hall so that the democratic and republican conventions and then av put the book together, h unfinished business. >> host: hostess spoke tace. organized? >> guest: "unifinished business: the 10 most important weues women face today," even have to argue about what the most important issues where. we each would read a drabness issues and then try to come to d some synthesis that we agree on. the publisher at some point have to say you've really got to havt ag some senses. is as i said we the great costumes toi be >> host: are you friends toda smaller >> guest: yes. she moved to the west coast. she is original entrepreneur. she has a website, but the confidential. doing extremely well. >> host: in the book, kayfor,

debra perry writes this, and i want to get your response. we will take a position here. programs such as affirmative action and minority business set aside to have their place in history when deep-seated divisions between blacks and whites equates to potable inequality off. blacks have been profoundly held back in american society, first by slavery and then by jim crow and finally bite informal restrictions on where they could live and even whom they can or could not take. it was a crusade between the white population whose ancestors held varying degrees of probability during the dark history of the slave trade house sources the children, grandchildren of former slaves. that was then and this is now. affirmative action now discriminates against the very people it was originally designed to help. >> guest: obviously i disagree with that. deborah made a concession by suggesting we need affirmative

action. if you like it occupational distribution you find places were african american people cannot read. fortune 500 companies, near nonexistent. we will not get as -- to make a will market it to come as quickly as tammy will. the economists have written about this. despite the virtue of the name are excluded. vichy and opportunities for discrimination today. certainly not -- some of the argument, as tense as they were in 1965. you can look at the years, but we really do still see it. we can measure it in any number of ways. we still to need but only affirmative-action, peter, but also measurement around a race of how you end up with such

differential. i have written and people have challenged me about what we call ourselves african-americans as opposed americans. part of it is the are of african descent, but give me the american unemployment rate in the african-american unemployment rate. give me the same level of wealth . african americans lost billions of dollars of wealth. we lost a disproportionate amount. if you give me the opportunity at every other american has, you can call me in american. let me say again i come to this will position of privilege. so it you can't kill warning about discrimination even though it happens. who worries me of the people on the bottom. median family income for whites, $50,000 a year. income for african-americans 31 tons dollars a year. it is a gap, and it is an excess

cash. whether you're talking about buying school supplies were her child, which a lot of people are doing, we're talked about paying tuition. >> host: en "unfinished business" you right, when it can influence consumer market by spending all withholding their dollar and can signal approval or disapproval of international hiring policies with their dollars. the economic pick-up muscle is one that women have relief flexed, yet it is an option if women want to influence aspects of our economy. >> mid the some point earlier. never any number of advertisements that are so demeaning to women. yet we talk about it but don't do much else. a remember, and this is certainly in the 80's. there was a punch. it was an advertising for a drink. basically you can sell anything from automobiles to housing

parts by putting a half clad woman on iran. we need to talk about this and say this is of the acceptable. he built it in right we're going to boycott. years ago michael jackson had a song that used the slur against the jewish people. he and a clean version and that version. jewish people went crazy. they said he can't do this. he was forced to change the song to basically eliminate this letter. no one is cosigning slurs against anybody. that is a power of a community who spoke up brushes the power of a community who except the slur in doesn't about a. >> host: julianne malveaux is the author of four books. wall street, main street, and the side street, in an economist takes a stroll. unfinished business, the ten most important issues women face

today. that is co offered by debra perry, as we discussed during the year. finally, our most recent, surviving and thriving of black economic history. you have edited other books are written for words for the books as well such as products of loyalty. >> one of my favorite things and we did. an edited volume that came after september 2011. and basically, again, the african-american perspective was also often ignored. various people have various talk about that. but i remember on september 11th watching television and helping that an african american commentator would be included in the mix. at the end of the day dr. my angelou was on talking about

healing. throughout the day there was very little that was written about african-american people in the tunnel reactions. african american people had gone to war and on number of other things. the paradox of loyalty comes by a book where they have a whole chapter the talks about american patriotism and how difficult it is to be a patriot in the country that discriminates against you. many african american people were stopped without reason. so were many latinos, but you see at airports the differential treatment. why is this happening? >> host: finally come will we go to calls a want to ask about a story you tell. a great assignment, but you did not it could your classmates did

>> oh, yes. i think might have been in the fourth and fifth grade. they said to write about the european country the confront. and the nun, she said night you. you know, my mom check on me where is your homework. i don't have any. why not? well, they're riding with the european countries and you come from. i didn't know that i had that many black folks. irish, macintoshes and family name. mcelroy. she went back to school and told the teacher that these are all the european countries she comes from. unfortunately -- >> host: you put your hand and eye off from work. >> guest: i was thrilled. >> host: what is the importance of the story? >> guest: biracial.

in britain before president obama was elected, but most african american people are not pure african. many have indian blood, white blood. we know about, for example, thomas jefferson and sally hemming, which is an interesting story because some people choose to say they were in love. i don't can. it is kind of an unequal relationship. what do you say when you're having a meeting? not tonight. i don't think so. it is an unequal situation. oftentimes, race or properly. you don't have the right to decline. the bottom line is, however it happened you end up with people who have an array of skin color. for people, of one drop rule, in louisiana if you have one drop of one you are of african

descent. multiracial. been that way since we have been year, 1619. toby davis of multiracial, by racial is something that just happened the other day. when you look at many, many african-american people you will find the product african descent, but also the notion that there are others that contributed to how we get here. >> host: you're watching book tv on c-span2. this is our monthly "in-depth" program. author and commentator twitter.com/booktv is our guest this month. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: good afternoon. >> guest: how are you? >> caller: thank you for c-span2. i e-mail because i have some statistics on party which were very bothersome because the difference was very much in those statistics from the cdc and from the u.s. since the sparrow.

the biggest contributing factor was the absence of marriage. marriage trump the probability of child party by 80%. in an e-mail i sent you i was asking the you know, are you aware that the black population and 70 percent out of wedlock births and the cdc reports the black use to five black youths engage in sex at higher rates than their white and hispanic peers and also to enter a just and that they have more negative consequences. for us, conservatives, we would like to -- we believe very cool and can be taught to exercise of control and not engage in the behavior that causes them to be trapped in poverty, that causes them to have as tv's, causes a lot of the five of those households. much higher incidence of criminal behavior. and sure that there is more black on black crime.

school dropout rates. >> host: at the we have a lot on the table there's the tomb of it basically a question. she's absolutely right about party differentials for white poverty line. it causes you can someone dispute although some of them arsenic true. if you have to burners you're more likely to have access. i think the conversation about premarital sex is a national conversation. one might suggest that more white kids have more access to birth control than many african-american. let me finally say, the whole notion of fatherlessness, which comes up a lot, as both correct and a stereotype. there were two conversations

that made me trouble. the whole conversation about her hair, but the other, her father is between afghanistan and iraq. this notion, the fun still has a phenomenal impact. let me say come my mom raised five of standing in people who are now outstanding middle-age or old people. a ph.d., to mbas, a law degree, to master's degrees. my parents divorced when i was six years old. let's not run around with the stereotypes. i think there are limiting. the conservatives want to wrap round this because in some ways it really reinforces the perception of inferiority. >> host: we just showed a picture. is still in san francisco. >> guest: she is. eighty-four years and keeping. >> host: her health. >> guest: she's a pistol.

the apple of fall far from the tree. that lady is a serious pest. >> host: an economist that her ph.d. at mit. indianapolis. surely, good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon to you. i got on. i am one of europe's biggest fans. i admire your work. plus, have had the pleasure of meeting you at the cbc a few times. anyway, my -- when you were talking about fannie lou, the party was mississippi freedom. you said it was missing teeth and he had begun to of the words mississippi freedom democratic party. head of the delegation. my question to you is, if you could give economic advice to mr. romney and president obama,

with that the? >> guest: thank you for the question. generate jobs, generate jobs, generate trump's. a lot people say we can't go into debt. what we knew for sure is that we have a of the restriction needs that can be improved. people who have jones and katrina into social security. it breaks my heart when i see and people who are unemployed. former college president watching orient people achieving his or window. it almost permanently scarred and led the market. you will do well, but never catch up. figure out ways to generate jobs. i think mr. britney has ignored that to a great extent. president obama has paid more

attention, but he has not been able to get could legislation through which has impeded what is going on with the unemployment rate of over 8% which is highly. of this we have averaged. still a lot higher than we would like. >> host: did you tell her things were her scholarship and ask her why she resigned from her presidency? be too picky. how you doing. we did so curriculum transformation. entrepreneurship, global studies the number of him woman who followed abroad increased i got a 10% under my. you know, at some point you look and say, how can you top that? in addition, frankly, my health was not what it ought to be.

i engaged in a lot of self neglect you cannot bring the kindle a bowfins. >> host: what and where is bennett college? >> guest: it historic be back to the black college for women, one of to look it in greensboro, north carolina. a fantastic school with an amazing history. i'm just unplugging after five years and three months. i still say we had some gloves an all-time. these women who might be considered an african american women bougie woman what hundred the carolina theatre in the 1930's. segregated. these women did not want to sit in the crow's nest. you have to see these pictures

of these women with their hats on. everyone talks about the greens were 04, for an outstanding man who went to north carolina right across the street from the college. very few people talk about the women who were part of the protest. many of those women were put it college women. i bet that many colleges sent more than 50. you had 670 students. for 50 go represents a 9 percent of your student population. very much a part of our nation's history. very privileged to serve there. happy to go. very happy to leave because you know when your parents time. >> host: speaking of economics, what is higher education costs for the customer

>> guest: that is an interesting question. these people know hitting 60 in the year. we look at a restored print black colleges there are regular bargain. >> host: it sounds like a lot of money. >> guest: it is. making 31,003 your, many colleges students are first generation and we really are looking at a lot of money. $23,000 on average. you're looking at a major investment. of upside is, someone who's the college will learn about a million dollars more than someone who does not. this is an issue of return on investment. congress has looked carefully at some of these colleges. higher than the rate of inflation.

i was always careful to put in context with what inflation was. and i think the reason why college is so expensive varies by the college. we have professors who teach to class and spend an enormous amount of time with richard. you have to ask if so to return to leyna. should not part of the salary be attributed to the research but it as well as the teaching budget so that somehow you get those tuition's down to network and you tell a story that students are involved in. and the event of research is someone that is ignored in many college campuses, and it's critical that you want to get more young people involved. >> host: next call from atlanta, linda. good afternoon. you're on book tv on c-span2. >> caller: good afternoon. i have been following you for some time. a very big fan of your work. i wanted to mention about the

unemployment rate and the fact, basically, what is the solution? we can talk all day about the unemployment rate. what is it that -- in know, lowering it for some reason. it seems to be stuck. a lot of people talk about jobs. what is the basic solution of lowering the amount on a great? >> guest: great question command and glad you asked it. we have sent look at education and access to education. there is a gap between the number of african americans and people in the to college. 30 percent for white americans, about 18 percent for african-americans. why don't in people bill? some of them want to wait. they want to kind of test themselves and not in the labour market doing the things.

a lot of functions don't have the money. the number of people have gradually from community college of want to transfer. and still has always been very low. we know that an educated person is more likely to have the lower unemployment rate and one of their counterparts who is working class, at the bottom of the distribution. the other thing that we might want to talk about this discrimination and labor markets and how that shows up, but if we look at today the ways that we really could transform our economy is by investing in it, and by investing and mean, there are a number of projects that we could use. after-school care. lots of teachers would be very will complete. when we stop giving money to state and local government, the number of teachers who have been laid off in the past year its into the six figures.

when our country invests, then you have possibility. i don't want to say that higher education is. in the 60's and 70's unit connections between trade unions and people in his school's of the people between to the plumbers, electricians, the kind of things that generate salaries that are quite competitive. that is an interesting fact. we ought to do more about vocational trading. linking vocational training to employment. >> host: try to keep up with the e-mails. what is your opinion on the state of higher education in terms of global competitiveness? for example, the overproduction of liberal arts degrees verses the hard science which has a great question. we look at engineering, for example, the united states

generated a statistic that the congressman shared with me. about 75,000 advanced degrees in engineering. that might sound like a lot, but in india the number was roughly 300,000. in china the number was perfect but thousand. some of these countries are investing. they're doing it poorly. there is an economist out there that will tell me that a chinese degree is not the equivalent of u.s. to agree. at the bottom line, they're given the scent and of engineering we are. when you looked at his desk will education in a number of cities the science lab in just not there. and people are not necessarily being encouraged. at the same time i am a big proponent of liberal arts education.

invited dr. martin the beginning in 1957 and said, our colleges teach us not what to think, but how to think. i think in liberal arts education could lead to a number of places of perhaps a graduate and professional school, policy analysis. i went to law school, with terror number of studies that suggest the rate of return on law schools is not what we like to be. i don't think it's bad that we have the room art majors. >> host: million. please go ahead with your question and comment. >> yes. i would like to comment on something that i have talked about as a solution to the unemployment. the first thing is come home, america has to be a global

economy? why can't we be independent and self-sufficient and not be it the lens of foreign governments? number two, the federal reserve pay printer national, a privately held stock corporations. our defense department has not been audited. building schools in afghanistan. schools with water running down the walls. i guess i want to know why we are letting illegal immigrants come in and a million legal every year when we're bankrupt. why don't we bull -- will account for an macon's. into, and that's like your opinion. >> guest: the me begin with your question about globalization. you can say you don't like it. i always tell people, you may not like the sunrise, but it's going to come. we're intertwined from the time

we employed the first and fifth person, the time that we began to fight with the brits about independents. we have been intertwined. traders of and it's going to happen. it's not anything that we can take away. what we can do is be more competitive here ask the question earlier about stem. we could be more competitive. we're not going to stop. the flexing you want to stop the tide. talking about ways we train together. with your afghanistan, i am with you on the number of things that we created in other countries that we cannot create here. building hospitals while on a brooklyn new york or some other places there are very few hospitals. school infrastructure is crumbling. i am with you there, but i don't think the culprit is

undocumented people who come to this country. and indeed, when we talk to our globalization and economic opportunities exist unless their great opportunities people are going to come here because of the continuous border. you don't know is a rash of canadians. better health care systems, which is a competitive. we looked at some of this things. very easy to blame a lot of things on undocumented people. i choose to use the word and document as opposed to illegal immigrants because they are undocumented. remember, california used to be part of mexico. one of the point. men on the point. >> host: pretty comprehensive

answer. we can move on. wall street, main street, and the side street. the half to the other angry or crazy or some combination thereof to interpret economic data and keep a level head. some days i want to scream at the bifurcation and try vacation in this country, the double standards, the triple meetings, the way the rich get richer, the poor poorer, and the rest of us more complacent. i want to scream. instead the right. that was 1998 in a conversation we're having today. >> guest: and matt economist is an angry one. looking at the data and deciding that this is not right. looking at the numbers as we have talked about and just, how do we get to this place. we look at the 99 percenter, the occupy movement, these are young people. most of them are caucasian, but

the come from a variety of backgrounds are doing the same thing. its new chief of the raise living standards. and so people who could have bought a house, started a business, could have done something, have no opportunity and watch the housing market point downwards among whites $127,000 by 2007. much of that wealth was a function of homeownership. by 2011 of went down by 50,000 owners to 77 tons in dollars. the numbers for african-americans are far more dire, and there was a study recently done that showed the

average black woman who headed the household had wealth of $125, median wealth of $125, and that is a scary statistic. >> host: here is another tweet. ec see sigma tau. i don't know if that is a sorority or fraternity or what. this person is asking, in your opinion of the 2010 government study that concluded head start provides no significant benefit after the first grade. >> guest: had stressed that is a very interesting. that means that there have been coming in and not familiar with the study. unfamiliar with the earlier studies that show the benefits of head start continue to be measured until about the third grade. what does that suggest? we need more outside classrooms, interventions three and p from the first grade them. people improve their opportunities and had their opportunity.

the look of some data the suggests that african-american parents are somewhat less likely to read to their children and white parents. some data that suggests that weight homes have almost twice the number of books that african-american homes to. of course they have not been to my house. some of this is culture, but frankly part of this is access and dollars. you look at some of those things. what had star has done is supplement low income children, not just african american, but will in come by providing them with extra classroom activities or in the case of very young people and go to a head start, three, four, and five year-old, opportunity to expand horizon. is it only works until the first grade, i'm okay with it, but that makes a suggestion about extracurricular activity. >> host: at bethany in brooklyn, good afternoon to you. you are on with julianne

malveaux. >> caller: could afternoon. i'm so glad i got through. single mother. raised four kids. the first and my family to graduate from college. i am a little choked up because i was a head start kid. my mother had to work two jobs. we were allowed to go to the library. now they're disappearing because of funding, and we were able to bring books home, take them out, do what we needed to do. i was also bust out from inner-city schools which were horrible, to the suburbs or the did not want to us. we had protests. the last thing i want to say, c-span, please put a title there. her name is dr. julianne malveaux. you guys are great. you must give her deference and respect for her title.

i really insist on that. one other thing, elizabeth warren was making a comment in the speech about the fact that the roads and police protection and all these other services provided by the government and municipalities help people who have the businesses. he was referring to other services which help you to the run your business. he did not mean you don't build alone. people stop listening to the rhetoric of the republican party . had star works. i am proof of it. you can make it in this country, and you have to believe in yourself and you have to read. read, read, read. turn off the television and read thank you so much for your services, dr. julianne malveaux. >> guest: thank you, and congratulations on being the first one in your family to finish college. that is always an accomplishment you hit on a number of things. the bottom line is, the

government is not anything, but when you see inequalities' the government can be an equalizer. if not an equalizer at least a way to level the playing field. at the same time, the government often provides differential services to some people as opposed to others. of world war ii example i gave you was written up in a book called when affirmative action was white. finally one of the things that thas me oft .. the securities and exchange commission regulated by the government provide enormous protection for stockholders. when you look at stockholders' there's a racial differential as well as an income deferential in who has stock. and so, again, absent government intervention there is no telling what happened on wall street. this is, again, a service that the federal government provides for people more shareholders. >> host: argue a shareholder personally? >> guest: i am, yes.

>> host: is it important? >> guest: it depends on your economic situation. you're dealing with risk. mutual funds for people who are lower income make more sense because you can afford less risk my portfolio, i agonize all the time about which stocks are going where, and you take a moderate position. people have to pay a lot more attention to their personal finances, financial the trustee, and the people, low and moderate income people really need to pay a lot more. people pay attention to their day-to-day budget, but the question would be how much attention be paid to your child college education. start saving as soon as the child is born. how many people pay attention to their retirement. social security is a solid program. they make up the benefits as we move ahead just based on aging,

the aging baby boom, but retirement is part of a three legged stool, social security, personal savings, and pension. just about half of us as americans have pensions. you know, we have to look at all three of those legs on the stool . >> host: when it comes to owning stock, is their influence, power temecula talked about boycotts, written about what counts. what about being a stockholder. >> guest: that does give you an edge in possibility. reverend jesse jackson bought a little bit of stock in the rainbow push coalition so that you have the right to go to a shareholder meeting. therefore at the meeting you can begin to address some of the objections that you might have. that tactic is a good tactic, but often times the boards have been distributed with to still the thing anybody else. you can write down from the kimmel's to someone who is

really serious. a rome woodcuts, participation, policies of some companies. i remember back in the early 90's where we talked about 84. we've passed proposition j in san francisco to have the city did best from companies doing business in south africa which was a great time with literally large companies basically not part to their knees, but they have to reconsider policies about investment in countries doing business, companies doing business with south africa. there was an opposing view. of course the rev. believe that if you were able to get companies to follow the principles that if you go to south africa you have to act

right. you have a bit of tension among african american, which way to go. certainly being a shareholder, being someone who can bring up for cutting did make a difference and i think quickened the end of apartheid. one of the things that the black south african agents he said is that they wanted us to help them make apartheid ungovernable. and because the system begins to fall apart. and basically withdrawing investment funds is a way to make the system ungovernable. that, i think, did push the end of apartheid. >> host: fremont's out of your college residency. are you writing another book, considering another book? >> guest: on working a couple of things. and right constantly. to be writing his breathing. when i first went to the college

a reader would not to a lot of writing and a weekly. after like six months of it and said, i have to write. i felt like i was swallowing anything that i had. i try to restrict myself to read more about education and economics trying to stay away from controversy, but that is like saying members, stay away from the fire. i still read my weekly column. i'm riding some other things that i am excited about. i'm going to chautauqua to do a lecture and a couple of weeks. right now on working on that lecture. they're doing a week on radicalism, and so on going to talk about radical economics. i expect to produce something that will be a major essay that might somehow -- publishers don't like essays. they want whole books. but i think that this is are important if you are creative that you can somehow, you know, we've been through. >> host: what is your involvement with push? >> guest: i am a chair --

actually, the president of the board. the part of rimbaud that provides scholarships for in people and focuses on education. obviously that would be a natural for me. reverend jackson was so generous to pledge half a million dollars to provide scholarships for our young people continuously. we have done that over four years of my presidency, and i was just with them at the convention. i said, reverend, please maintain. we have about 13 and women in the pipeline. can they just please get through i don't think the commitment is going to continue to benefit because there are a lot of other colleges clamoring for attention. our jesse jackson fellows are young women will have good grades but a history of baptism. >> host: this e-mail from bonnie lincoln. i would be interested to learn more about your ph.d. thesis, what drew you to the subject, what you learned, what the basic thesis is.

was it published in book form? >> guest: entitled to unemployment differential by race and occupation. one of the things i worked in the carter white house that we learned is that -- not learning, but looking at the data. people who are better occupations and that having much lower unemployment rates that people who are not in certain occupations. but the racial and a point differential maintained. in other words, african-american physicians an unemployment rate of 16%. 36 percent which was twice the rate of white physicians who had a much lower rate. so you saw that differential, that 2-1. talking about physicians, clerical workers, engineers. all tell you what one of the unintended consequences of my dissertation, i learned a lot about occupational segregation which i then began to write about. in other words, my focus for so long had been raised that i

really did pay a lot of attention to what happened to women. what you saw at the time, and there are a number of other women economists who have written about it. women were concentrated in a few occupations, clerical, nursing, social work, whether they were african-american or white women. and therefore you ended up with the pay differential for women that you still see. so my dissertation turned me into a more rapid feminists than i have ever been because the data with it and suggested things that i was approaching. at that time 43 occupations and the bureau of labor statistics. we did not have the kind of computer to ability and we have now, so i had these 43 by -- i don't know, these grades. whenever you lost a piece of paper you lost several hours with the work. i was living in new york. i was working on part of my dissertation. that is when you used punched

cards. i could tell whether my samples or appropriate if i had blacks as one and whites as zero. if you have an average of one union that basically you have an all black sample and zero you have an all white sample. from time to time and end up with .08. my poor neighbor thought i was racist because when i saw these numbers out with like, you know, what occurs. how come these whites are in my sample. they could hear me downstairs. when i finally met and they said, you're kate. why would you think i'm not? all night long your cursing about racism. no, cursing about my sample. aspects of my dissertation were published in journal for. the other, nation's, but the whole thing was never published. >> host: next call from little rock. good afternoon tea.

>> caller: good afternoon, sir. how are you doing, man? >> guest: i'm great. >> caller: i'm not familiar with your writings and listing to your program were seeing you on the program is the first time i am aware of you and your writing. they're very interesting. your talk has been very interesting. my question is, what do you think of the ratings of dr. thomas stole and walter e. williams? >> guest: thank you for calling. you're calling from one of my favorite cities, with rock arkansas which is a crucible of civil-rights history and something that continues to reverberate. i was pleased and honored to be with the little rock democratic party about five months ago. my dear friend who was mayor of little rock at one point in time came out to hear me, which again was an honor and privilege. i know thomas. i disagree with him.

walter williams as well i disagree with. their both talented academics, certainly quite right of center, and i am quite left-of-center. not a lot of common ground in our work. anti affirmative action, and i disagree with them. >> host: the maryland gates, mesquite, texas. e-mail, what is your writing process like? >> guest: i noodle. the first thing i'd do is i knew. i think and think and think. often, depending on the topic there are some times that i literally exhale and it just shows up because it's something that i filled with a strongly about. other times you kind of labor over what you're ready. but the park, people will often say, well, what you doing? and kiki. when i was writing it home, ask me. i'm thinking. kent. and not doing anything. i said i was thinking. the processes, play with the

editing. then you have a nice finished product. >> host: how often the right? >> guest: every day. an internal. i write pieces of things. i don't think it's a good day if i haven't written something. might not be the magna oprah's, but certainly a few lines and a page. >> host: the full collection is at julianne malveaux dot com. written four books. she also tweaks at doctor j. last word. what is last word? >> my company is called last word productions ink.

the has been around since 1995. when i worked for radio and it is show, the julianne malveaux shell. at the end of the national i said i'm julianne malveaux and i always give the last word via had my editorial comments that were partially based on what happened in the show. >> host: harold, burlington, new york. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: good afternoon. by question deals with the black unemployment numbers that you will of spoken of the. friday's unemployment report shows that the one true growth area in employment is in small businesses. dr. julianne malveaux, you are calling it georgia tech and have been advocating for small business development in the

urban area in the african-american community . today we don't have neighborhood black and encroach restores, cleaners. when you think about biosphere, the failure of biosphere was the of micro organisms died. if our's small businesses the our country, our economy is in trouble. how do we read in engines, reinvest in the black community so that we have mom-and-pop businesses in? >> guest: great question. you talk about my colleague get to logitech, dr. thomas slauson knows to many -- known to many of us as danny. i'm a great proponent of small businesses. the same time there are a number

of issues that have to be raised. obviously access to capital is the biggest impediment for african-americans to 12 businesses. you have to have the dollars. money for a year or so to make sure your money -- your business grows. more than half of all businesses fail in the first year of operation. and so going into business is definitely a risk, yet it is a risk that often generates return. there are many ways that african-american businesses can grow. one, of course, is to access von's from a small business administration, business development institute which is part of the federal government. banks, which are clearly, again, we see some discrimination. the publisher of ebony magazine went to a bank to get a loan. he went back and used his

furniture as collateral and said he wants to get a loan so he could go on vacation. he got the loan. there were willing to fund the business. there were willing to fund the consumer. one of the reasons that african-americans had not liked enough. ways that we can invest in each other. people with great ideas. asking 20 friends for $20 offered them a rate of return. something we thought about and think easily could be developed. as long as you have wealth and the quality it is going to be more difficult for african americans some businesses. the reduction of a number of mom-and-pop stores often you find others who were taking advantage of the property rates and income opportunities. we can't be mad at them.

what might we do to increase those. the district of columbia. the rate of business, it's something that increases the inequality. .. 30-year didn't have an opportunity. the demographic of washington, d.c. has greatly changed in the past few years because it essentially white folks who live in the suburbs to get it into of the 5,000-dollar tax deduction. many african americans didn't have the wherewithal to ticket and the joy of that deduction. a lot thof people look at publim policy and think it is racenifit neutral. some would say anybody who coula take advantage ofs that, but we'll for example withomething

homeownership that there is significant microloaning. are you a supporter of that? >> guest: absolutely. we see in the international context that microlending is extremely effective especially for women in developing countries. you've seen a number of academics write about this because they've seen those successes. the question one might is what's the threshold for microloan here in the united states. a woman in lesotho, part of southern africa, or zimbabwe can literally transform her life with a $500-$1,000 loan which is nothing in the context of the united states. so the question here might be what's the threshold for a loan that would allow you to grow distance, and what's our micro number. and i suspect it might be between 10 and $25,000, but in terms of growing a business, that's a very small sum.

so how do we get people to invest in that kind of business especially for women, but for all the folks who are at the periphery of the economy. you know, small businesses are great because not only do they provide economic opportunities, but also they provide employment opportunities. when they're in the inner city, they're more likely to give employment opportunities to the people who live around them which might be young african-americans. and so we have to be small business advocates, and we have to balance our needs to invest in small businesses, to grow small businesses with some of the other economic needs that exist in our community. >> host: linda in bloomfield, connecticut, please, go ahead with your question or comment for julianne malveaux. >> caller: good afternoon, ms. malvo. i had the opportunity of hearing you on martin luther king day at our breakfast. i was quite impressed with your view point on things. one of the items that i wanted to bring out having grown up in a small business of an african-american family in which

we all had to work very hard, six-and-a-half days a week. of fortunately, i was able to attend an ivy league institution, but never had the employment opportunity it can investment opportunity or the ability to even ooh get capital after attaining that education. most of the time i worked a part-time business with my husband, also worked full time, and that business continues to take, um, investment. your statement about african-americans and the amount of money that we do have, close to a trillion dollars within the country, needs -- we need to really direct our spending and make it more investment in the hinges that we can do -- in the things we can do as business people for the things that we purchase, things that we can help train young people, whether it be education or whether it be, um, technologies or things of that nature.

but there's a lot of it that as people we need to redirect the way we are spending our money. some of the items that we are focusing on in terms of right now and the future of our children and other generations are making sure that they are attending those historically-black colleges and also as alumni giving to them in those universities that are if our area. they need to realize that they have to solicit our dollars, um, by the programs that they are offering. >> guest: yeah, i'm so glad you called. first of all, i have to give since you mentioned that i spoke at a martin luther king -- i think it was a breakfast in connecticut, that was something that was sponsored by my sorority, delta sigma theta sorority, incorporated, founded here in washington, d.c. and lots of interesting stories including the fact that the women of the suffrage march did not want black women to

participate in the suffrage march. but the delta women were determined to participate, and they bo guarded -- bow guarded their way into the march, so a shout out to the sorority, and also i was very grateful not only to be in connecticut, but to have my connecticut soarers, especially the hartford chapter, provide a scholarship for a woman who was from connecticut, so that was an exciting thing. your points about business are so well taken in terms of access and access to capital. your more important point i think and one i think most african-americans can relate to is the question of how our, um, dollars are corrected. dr. king in 1968 said you cannot take my dollar and disrespect my person. and he was really talking about spending money places that didn't respect us. but when you look at a dollar in the african-american community, there's a thing where the eagle flies. well, the eagle flies once in our community. we get the dollar, and it's

gone. in many other communities the eagle flies five and six times which means communities are regenerating their dollars in the community. we have to be willing to support african-american business if we want to talk about the success of african-american business. and so that's a really great point, and it's really important. and finally, um, i love what you said about historically-black colleges and universities. i quite frankly think every person ought to invest in an hbcu. and i think anyone whether african-american or not who cares about african-american education ought to invest in an hbc by giving. it could be as little as $100 a month or year, but every dollar really makes a difference. >> host: in this e-mail from edwin greene, why do you think the president doesn't say more about the black community? >> guest: president obama is the president of the united states of america. he's not the president of black america, asian america, latino

america. i think that he has to always balance what he says. i would prefer that he say more about the african-american community, certainly. when he was at the national urban league convention a week ago, he established a commission on african-american education, and from my personal perspective, i wish he'd established it two years before he did. i mean, it seems a little cynical to establish something, you know, four months before the election? african-american leaders have been clamoring for our president to do more, to say more about the african-american community. after all, you can really see other communities getting things, getting results, and the african-american community not getting those. but i have a couple things to say about that. number one, when president obama was elected, african-americans spent a little too much time celebrating and a little too little time advocating. people, if you said anything negative about president obama, they were about to read you out of the race. you must not be black, you're a

traitor. i remember making a comment about his speech at the democratic convention. i said it was of good, but not great. his acceptance speech. a little more policy wonkish, you really want something that fires you up. a very tepid comment made on tsa smiley's -- tavis smiley's show, and the number of hate letters i got, that's not how you do discourse. i mean, that's simply not how you do discourse. so we african-americans have to embrace this president but also be lovingly critical of him. if we don't advocate for black people, why would this president respond? >> host: if you were to suggest one of your books for people to read, what would it be? >> guest: i think surviving and thriving has opened up with about a 25-page essay about where african-american people are in the economy, so the data are more recent than the data that are in the other book.

in addition, you just learn a lot about black economic history. peter, my vision when i wrote the book, i said it was a love note to my people. it's an empowerment for many people, but i wish that every fact would turn into a doctoral mission or book somewhere. in the case of some of the people like madam c.j. walker, of course, she's been written about many times including, you know, her great, great granddaughter who's a local person here in washington and a brilliant writer. but there are other people who have just been ignored, and it's really important for us to submit that history. i always say that history belongs to she who holds the pen. i say she because, obviously, women's history and black women's history is often not told in the ways we'd like it to be. the history of us in the civil rights movement which a bennett

person is going to have to write because nobody else will. surviving and thriving would be what i'd recommend because it lists so many interesting people and movements. >> host: we have a few minutes left before we're going to take a short break. actually, the break is going to be we're going to show you some of julianne malveaux's favorite books, some of her favorite authors, some of her biggest influences, and we've got about an hour and a half left in our conversation with our guest this month. spencer, west virginia, jeff. please, go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: yes, ma'am. i've got kind of a theory here, and i'd like your educated opinion on this. i'm a white male from rural west virginia, and my theory is about this whole tea party and everything, white middle class america has lived pretty good on the hog for a while. and then all of a sudden due to spineless politicians and spineless businessmen we've lost

the middle class. and, yes, there were black people that were in this middle class as well, but it was a majority white middle class. and now the white middle class has been knocked down the social ladder. they're losing their homes, their children they sent to college, they can't find jobs, their kid, you know, they're not coming out of college making $50,000 a year with the potential of making $170,000 a year. and it seems to me that a lot of this anger is getting misdirected from the true source of what caused this, and it's reverting back to those old racial stereotypes that, in my opinion, i thought was long buried and for the most part forgotten. >> host: jeff, what do you think are the real causes of what you're describing? >> caller: i think that it's spineless politicians to begin with, and i think that it is

greedy businessmen that put this this -- money over the people of their country. >> guest: you know, i think jeff has a number of really great points. this is the first time that children are not expected to do better than their parents. what we've seen over the years usually the next generation does better than the last generation, and we don't see that now. so i think that, you know, he makes a very good point there. i also think there is some racial rage, and many of it, much of it is focused on president obama. i think there are folks who, basically, almost cannot stand to see this black man in public office, and they're responding with a virulence that we've never seen with the president or first lady being compared to apes. this is the kind of discourse. honestly, i used to talk about how intellectually-limited george bush was but never comparing him to animals, just sort of saying he wasn't that bright. and, you know, there's a

difference, again, in the kind of discourse. you know, people flying over the white house, flying into the white house, that kind of thing, you know, there's a racial rage. when you look at the tea party, they're very interesting people, but there used to be this thing called moderate republicans. you used to have the people like the susan collins who's a big proponent of small business, but she's a republican. and some of these sort of moderate republicans either have been, lost their seats, and we've seep it this last election cycle, or have chosen not to run because the tea party basically does not allow difference. you've got this guy, grover norquist, here in washington who asks people to take a tax pledge that you won't, basically, raise taxes. no taxes should at all be raised. and that's kind of a zero sum game that some republicans are intimidated by. so there used to be a time when democrats and republicans sit across the aisle and come up

with some agreement. we haven't been able to agree on the jobs bill. there's no agreement yet on the farm bill, and there's some issues with the farm bill that one might raise questions about. there are a number of pieces of legislation that we can't agree on because literally we are so ossified. i hate to ever in my lifetime agree with trent lott, ever in my lifetime. but one of the things that he said very recently, he talked about seersucker day which is a day that people on the hill would wear seersucker. now, heaven forbid, but it was a way of bringing people together, having a little bit of fun x people don't want to be together or have fun anymore. so i think that's what pushes that tea party group is almost dictating to the majority party. so, you know, when our friend from west virginia talks about spineless politicians, he's really got a point. some of these people have to stand up where they're democratic or republican to the tea party and say, you know, you guys are the minority of the republican party. you shouldn't have that much

weight. but, you know, so many people are complacent until things come home to them. i was on a radio show with a tea party woman who wanted to get rid of everything. everything she wanted to get rid of. and i said how old's your mom? she was in my 50s, she said her mom was in her 80s. i said, does your mother get social security? yeah. so you want to eliminate social security, are you and your family in a position to replace that income for your mother? and she kind of stuttered and said, well, that's not the point. the system is wrong. but, again, we look at government intervention, and often that intervention is good. >> host: keith in washington, d.c., please, go ahead. >> caller: yes, how are you today? >> guest: great, thank you. >> caller: good. i wanted to pick up on the issue of this 72% of black americans born out of wedlock.

to me as a black american myself, this is something that is very much ignored in the black community. and when i was looking at the statistics between 1980, excuse me, between 1880 and 1910, there was about 15.3% of blacks and 66.9% of white households with nuclear households. the 20th century saw a dramatic reduction in the marriage rates. so between 1950 and 1996 couples declined from 78% to 34%. and what i wanted to find out is that, meanwhile, the desire to

remain -- [inaudible] 83.36% of white singles between the ages of 19 and 35 -- [inaudible] that they wish to get married. excuse me. that they wish to get married. so something is actually happening. the appetite in the black community especially for that desire to get married. and i know you, dr. julianne malveaux, as you live the homosexual lifestyle, do you consider the current climax that we are now that this particular lifestyle has created the variety of sexual choices that we currently have, do do you see this, does this effect the overall -- >> guest: you know, i laugh because i don't live a homosexual lifestyle, and i don't know where you got that from. what i am is a single

58-year-old black woman who i often say the lord brought some very interesting men into my life, and the lord prevented me from marrying them. and that has been multiple blessings. and i do often wonder why single african-american women are accused or assumed to be gay when they simply make choices that they choose to be single? i don't have any children, and i didn't want any. i'm the oldest of five chirp, and so there was a level at which i didn't want to do child care. and maybe that sound like a selfish decision, but i had 700 children when i was the president of bennett college for women. i'm not defensive at all about my sexual orientation or about the way i've lived my life, but i find it reprehensible that you would choose to accuse me of manager without having your facts. -- something without having your facts. now, regarding african-american marriage and family formation, i don't think that you would find among african-american women a decreased desire for marriage.

many of my students, many young women that i interact with want to be married. at the same time, we look at college, the ratio of african-american women to men is two to one, twice as many women as men. i'm not saying that a college graduate has to marry a college graduate, but many of these family formation decisions are made as college students, and young women have less access to peers than others do. and so many choose not to marry, many choose not only not to mar marry, but because of a deep desire for children if they become pregnant and the father is not available, they choose to have their child. and i say hooray for them. i know women who are single who have adopted children, and i think that's a great service in many, many ways. we do have to look at issues of family formation in the african-american community. i think they're very important. and often times i think that the reason that many african-american women do not marry is because of the economic plight of african-american men

which in relative terms has gotten worse over the years. and so i think we can, you know, say we would prefer intact families than not intact families, but once there is a child, i prefer people love that while dearly, completely and sincerely. >> host: you write about some of your standard operating procedures, and number five is take anything a brother says over the phone or after dark with at least one grain of salt. if he is under the influence of anything, even reggae music of or moonlight, make that two grains. [laughter] >> guest: yeah, there are -- i have friends and fans who believe i'm anti-male, i don't think i am, but, you know, been around the block a few times. there are conversations that people have on the telephone that they won't have face to face, conversations they'll have under the influence that they won't have with you. so we have to take it all with a grain of salt. >> host: 48 hours of nonfiction

books every weekend on booktv on c-span2. right now we're talking with author and commentator julianne malveaux. we have about an hour and a half left in our conversation, but first we want to see some of the books that have influenced dr. mall sow and some of the people who have influenced her as well.

>> host: julianne malveaux, what's your relationship with maya angelou? >> guest: she is on the board of bennett college, but met her first in the '80s, had dinner with her a number of times. she gives these great parties which over the years when i've lived in washington we traveled down for, a group of us, just because we loved spending time in her company. she's one of the wisest people i know, just so amazingly focused, and she loves people. and so when i was at bennett, i had the opportunity of

experiencing her wisdom in any number of occasions, sometimes i loved it, and every now and then i was, like, okay, i've got to take this one with a spoonful of sugar. [laughter] she told me to speak, to listen twice as much as i spoke, and i said, okay. [laughter] and then i thought about it. i probably don't do that. >> host: well, she's written, she also wrote the forward to wall street, main street for you. >> guest: yes, she did. >> host: so, this is booktv on c-span2. we are talking with author and commentator julianne malveaux. she is the author of these books beginning in 1994.

>> host: we also mentioned paradox of loyalty which you edited, and you've written the forwards to several different book as well, and i wanted to ask is, is "working while black: the black person's guide to success in the white working place," what was your involvement with that book? >> guest: well, the woman who wrote it came to speak at the college, write withs really fascinating things about the subtle kinds of racism that people in the workplace experience. she kind of distills it down to say maybe it's 15% of what you experience. it's not every day, there are slights that may just be slights because you're the new kid on the block, but there are other things that really do have to do with race that range from conversations about hair to other kinds of conversations. i just had a good time with the forward. >> host: 202 is the area code here at booktv, 585-3880 the you live in the east and central time zone and have a question or comment for dr. julianne

malveaux, 202-585-3881 if youly in the mountain and pacific time zones. you can also send her a tweet at twitter.com/booktv and e-mail, booktv@cspan.org. back to your calls. arthur in albany, georgia. please, go ahead with your committee or comment. >> caller: dr. malveaux, congratulations on all of your books and all of the books that you've authored and those that you've read. my concern is that america assisted england and the area under the marshall plan. my concern is why does america disinvest in itself and talk about democracy all over the world, but when it comes to the very people that have defended this country, that have done everything, you and i were delegates with jesse jackson in '84. i was a commissioner from ballny, georgia -- albany,

georgia, and i applaud you for doing what you're doing. i don't think america is really listening or wants to listen. i think it's disparity and the gutless elected officials in washington that comes to represent us are not representing us. they are representing a party. and when it comes to vietnam, i'm a vietnam veteran, i have paid the dues. and, peter, i wish that you would have more programs like this, booktv, and also the -- [inaudible] armstrong williams. it's time out for us damaging our chirp. we're not investing in our children. but when it comes to racism, it's very easy to identify. try being black. try being hispanic-american. you will be able, and as an american white male, don't tell me about discrimination. we black american males,

veterans, dr. malveaux, would you please continue? if they won't listen to you, i know they won't listen to me. thank you very much, and keep on keeping on, sister. >> guest: thank you for calling, and it's great to reconnect after that 1984 democratic convention. we fought really hard, didn't we? and reverend jackson just shone in those moments. it was an incandescent moment for us. now, the question you asked is about a marshall plan, and certainly the national urban league and others beginning really in the '60s had written about or advocated an urban marshall plan. talk about ways, as you said, we invested millions of dollars, especially in london, to make sure that countries that had been affected by world war ii were able to recover. and our dollars really did make the difference there. why not put those dollars in the inner city where many inner cities don't even have supermarkets? why not put those dollars into our young people? it's a very legitimate question. the other question, in the book

"the paradox of loyalty," the late ron walters wrote an essay on foreign policy justice. and he talked about how some countries were treated different than other countries, but also how people in the united states didn't have the advantage of some of the thicks that other -- things that other countries have one of the things that i think is the height of hypocrisy is the fact that people of the district of columbia don't have members of congress, and we don't have the right to vote from that perspective. i would think that under bill clinton eleanor holmes norton was given the right to vote, but given. and so when the republicans came in under mr. bush, they took it away. and, of course, this administration has not yet decided that that vote should take place. of course, it depends on who the house majority leader is, and we don't expect john boehner to do anything for anybody, quite frankly. but, you know, your question

about reform policy, justice and a marshall plan is an extremely well-taken question. >> host: y'all korean malvo, one of your greatest influences you included julian richardson, founder of market books. what's the back story? >> guest: well, the bookstore is in san francisco and in oakland. once upon a time is literally across the street from city hall. so we would cut school to go down to marcus books. he had all the revolutionary books, all the black authors, he had a men's discussion group, and my dad would go there, and sometimes i'd just be a little girl with pigtails listening to these guy cans talk about amazing things and decide. rich, as he was called, was amazing and a thinker. he had his own press, so he published things. his daughters karen and blanch have carried on the legacy, so they've got a store now in oakland and a store in san francisco. but as you know, independent booksellers are having a really

hard time these days, so they're struggling like all the other independent bookstores are. but it's a great place to go. they're almost like cultural centers. >> host: next call comes from philadelphia. peter, good afternoon to you. >> caller: good amp, peter. how are you? >> host: good. >> caller: dr. malveaux, it's an honor to speak to you. i'm a 62-year-old white male that's live inside philadelphia for 40 years after graduating from penn and men britain mauer. and first of all want to say that i want to know more about -- [inaudible] my concern is william gray was our congressman in our district for many, many years. for two years i worked with chaka's stepmother -- [inaudible] our population was mostly black women giving birth. we have all these wonderful

programs here including dr. sullivan has his program here in philly. but i was going to ask you if you and other economists who believe that we need to stimulate jobs for everyone like paul krugman and yourself could have a conference and get together -- [inaudible] platform like the marshall plan for both candidates? thank you very much. >> guest: you know, you raise a really great question, how come some of us can't come together? i'm a great admirer of paul krugman's. as i said earlier, he was one of my class mates at mit, and i just finished his book in which he really talks about economic stimulation and why it makes sense look at those countries with the euro who have done well because of stimulation as well as those who don't. i'd love it if some of us got together, and it's a great idea. and a number of folks do come together regularly, but, you know, people don't pay attention to those left-of-center ideas, and they really need to. so thanks for the suggestion, and maybe it's one we can follow up on.

you come from a really great city. i love the city of philadelphia. you've got a great city council and mayor, a woman who attended bennett college for some time, and of course bill gray was just amazing not only as a congressman, but as the leader of the united negro college fund, so you're sitting on top of a great legacy, and i'm glad that you called. >> host: a lot of your faith authors and books, a lot of poetry. >> guest: i used to be a poet, and maybe i still am. i was "essence" magazine's first college editor when i was, i think, 19, and i wrote this poem called black love is bittersweetness. a great brother told me love is a 26-letter word. it includes everything and goes on and on. so like a 2500-word essay/poem. and i was influenced by nickyy vanny. she came to speak at the

college, and i got to pick her up at the airport. i think that poetry isly schism. so i enjoy it. it motivates. i don't write it anymore, but i really do enjoy it. >> host: east brunswick, new jersey, jacques. good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon. good afternoon, dr. malveaux. >> guest: hi, jack, how are you? >> caller: okay. let me say this, there's always talk about the issue of the dollar within the black community not moving around and circulating enough, and, you know, what i realize growing up in a black community is that there weren't too many businesses, and many of the businesses that were there were being either vandalized by the people within the community or everyone wanted to have a tab, but no one wanted to pay the tab. and with that i know, you know, many of the businesses just shut down. in your opinion, i mean, what can we do to get back to where,

you know, we can have these businesses within our communities that thrive and grow? >> guest: great question. you know, there's a woman named maggie 57bderson, she's out of chicago. she and her husband decided for a full year they would only buy black. they've got a book coming out called "a year of buying black," and in the book she talks about some of the very challenges that you mentioned, often driving way out of her way to find an african-american-owned dry cleaner or someplace where she might get groceries from black-owned businesses. the internet has made it easy for some of our businesses or easier for some of our businesses and for us to reach them, but with the dispercent of the african-american population once living mostly in the inner city, now sometimes dispersing tout the suburbs where you have fewer business establishments has made it more difficult. african-american people and others have to be mindful about where they buy from. by mindful i mean purposed in

that this is how i'm going to spend my money. i'm one of these people, i love clothes. but i also -- but i would prefer to keep my money in my neighborhood. so i have, you know, just an absolutely wonderful african-american tailor in washington who makes more than half of my clothes. and i always go to a department store, i'm like, oh, melva can make that. and it's really about keeping money in the community. but you have to be mindful about it because it's too easy if you're a consumer to say i want this, i want that. we could do better if we choose to do better. >> host: we covered that book on booktv, maggie anderson. if you'd like to see ms. anderson talk about her year of living in the black -- or spending -- >> a year of buying black. >> host: yes. african-american dollars, go to booktv.org, search function up in the upper left-hand corner: just type in her name, and

you'll be able to watch it online at your convenience. next call for julianne malveaux comes from alan in los angeles. alan, please, go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: yes. i'm a great fan of yours, dr. malveaux, and i wanted to know why you're no longer on the possible of the pbs round table called "to the contrary." i thought you were a great asset and balance to the show, and i also wanted to compliment you on chastising that caller from d.c. who made that outrageous false accusation about you. >> guest: thank you so much. i did "on the contrary" from its conception until 2000, you'd have to ask the producer why i'm no longer there. i think i was a littleningy for them. obviously, once i went to the college, that was not an opportunity that i was prepared to pursue, and, obviously, i miss the opportunity to mix it up with other women. but there are other opportunities. in the years since i left, some time with cnn, msnbc and others

and, hopefully, as i contemplate my post-bennett life, more opportunities will come my way. >> host: like you said, you called it the -- you had a special word for all the different cable networks that have, that have shows and -- what'd you call it? the commentary yacht? >> guest: yeah. >> host: right. do you enjoy doing those programs? do you think they add to our political discourse? >> guest: it depends. i think hen you've got a three- when you've got a three-minute food fight and, you know, you've got to get in there, i don't think it adds much. i think when you have more things in depth that you definitely get, you know, a different kind of conversation. just to have two polarized people holler at each other is the verbal equivalent of mud wrestling, so it does not always turn out that well. more in-depth things make more sense. >> host: hart todd, connecticut, paul: good afternoon. helps if i push the butttop. hello? hi, paul. >> caller: how you doing,

dr. malveaux? >> guest: hi. >> caller: how you doing? i have a question. do you feel identification is creating disparity within the black community economically wise? and also i'd like to speak about that caller from d.c. i think one thing he fail today realize is that his mistake was he's got to stop looking at information on the internet about you. he must understand who you are, he must respect you as a black woman. and for me it hurts my heart to see how, i mean, it hurts my heart to see how he affected you. i think the caller, he's got to stop looking at the internet to find out information about you. i think he must respect you as a black woman and not make outrageous claims that you are a homosexual, but state the fact of who you are. so i thank you for your time and everything. >> guest: well, thank you for you comment. you know, people make all kind of accusations, and the question is what you believe about yourself, not what other people believe about you. so, you know, um, there's a part in the bible where they talk about dust in the wind? that's the kind of thing that

you'd look at as dust in the wind. now, your gentrification comment is very well taken. i mean, i think not only do you have disparity in the african-american community, but gentrification has really caused erosion among african-american institutions. because once you see income levels rising, certain kind of businesses really aren't going to sur survive. once you see property values rising, you see some african-american people leaving communities where they've been, again, renters for 20 or 30 years but can't afford what happens when their property values rise. so, you know, like globalization there's not a lot you can do about gentrification when market forces essentially change the value of property. on the other hand, what cities can do if they value the people who have been long-term residents of the city is provide the same kind of benefits that d.c. provided for new homeowners. what about a benefit or

long-term homeowners? for people who have seen their property taxes rise? now, in d.c. there's an exemption for people who are over 65, but one might argue that people who bought their house when it was $85,000 and now it's valued at half a million dollars, they haven't put those kind of taxes into their budget, and those kind of taxes may be the ones that tip them out of a city. so governments can make a difference with intervention in this area. >> host: in your first book, "sex, lies and stereotypes," you write: we can't get past race until we figure out how to make our economic and political system generate more palatable results. does equal opportunity equal equal results? >> guest: no, equal opportunity is exactly what it says, equal opportunity. it doesn't necessarily mean wealth, you know, basically redistribute. when -- redistribution. when you look at, basically, employment is a necessary but not sufficient condition for closing economic gaps. in other words, you need to have

employment across the board. you need equality and wages. but as long as you have that wealth differential, you're still talking about a differential in access. and that differential access turns out to create different kinds of opportunities other than employment opportunities in the long run. example, intergenerational wealth. how many white americans have benefited from long-term intergenerational wealth? where many african-americans you're first generation wealth. your parents work very hard. they did what they could do. they made sure you went to college. but quite frankly, when it came time to make that down payment on your first house, you know, my mom said, well, good luck, you know? and that's what she meant. she didn't have that kind of savings. so good luck. and someone else was, hey, here's a check. i'm not suggesting somebody's mother give me a check, but i'm suggesting the ways you get those kind of differentials.

you lose your job, but your daughter wants to go to college. if you've got savings, you might say, okay, i can support you for a year or two, and then you've got to get financial aid. without a doubt someone in the african-american community loses their job, has no wealth, okay, you're going to community college, or you're going to work. and so those kind of differentials show up because of wealth, not because of jobs. and then you'd have the political situation where often policy looks race-neutral, but it has a racial impact. and we have to pay attention to that. >> host: st. louis, harold, you're on booktv on c-span2 with dr. julianne malveaux. >> caller: hi to both of you. i have an idea for a book for you, dr. malveaux. what if england had won the revolutionary war? [laughter] secondly, i think that i want to say something to you. i have always been proud of you, so i don't know what that guy

was talking about, but i'm proud of you. and more importantly, you -- anytime i've ever seen you, i've never been ashamed. you've never made me feel ashamed as a black man. my question is, before i turn over to you, i listened, i watched the john mclaughlin show on the public television, and this same formula keeps repeating itself over and over. four or five white conservative males and one feeble female middle of the road trying to -- and she's constantly talked over. "meet the press," it's always the same guy, it's always the same -- some old white guy always -- why -- we'll never get anywhere as long as this formula never changes. ciewpg i'm right or wrong? >> i think you're absolutely right. it's overwhelmingly male and white. i think there's been some diversity over the last few years. saw perry has a show on m --

melissa perry has a show on msnbc as does al sharpton. but, again, that -- i should be able to call these people out by name, or i can't call out the plethora of white men who are out there. it's interesting, when "to the contrary" was first marketed, there was a climate someone used where they said pale male talking heads, and that was kind of the description of what was going on in television. and it's still there. now, you know, i'm intrigued by your book, what if -- your book idea, what if england won the revolutionary war, because there's a book out now by steven carter which i've just finished which is amazing, and it's called the impeachment of abraham lincoln. and what he does is takes the premise that, um, abraham lincoln was not fascinated -- assassinated, but instead lived and the radicals and more moderate republicans and

democrats who did not want equality clashed and, basically, lincoln was in the crosshairs and, of course -- not, of course, but in the book he is assassinated before the vote on the the impeachment. now, the really interesting thing about this book is that one of the central characters is an african-american whom who desperately wants to be a lawyer. so it's just a really fascinating book. peter, one of the things you'll find, one of my good friends said i'd read the back of a soup can if, you know, locked in a room and had nothing else to read. so i just read just about anything. it literally is one of my favorite things to do. >> host: well, julianne julianne malveaux, you've mentioned a couple, but what is currently on your reading list? >> guest: well, um, julian barnes' the end, the end of the end or something. really julian barnes is -- i don't know very much about him. i've read a couple of his books, but his writing is extremely spare. it's that kind of incisive, you

know, he's not got a lot of adverbs and additives. this is spare writing, so you really have to admire that good writing. reading a book, i was in new orleans twice last month, once for the essence p music fest festival and one for the national urban league, so i started reading a very scholarly book about marie la slow. and the woman who's writing the book is using scholarly and historical references, but there's some debate about whether there was one or two because she had a daughter by the same name. she was seen as the main voodoo queen, it's a really long time, did she live to be 100, or did the daughter basically take up her mantle? so it's a fascinating book. i'm finishing up "in this depression now," which is a combination of some columns and some thinking. the part i've enjoyed the most is, first of all, the conclusion

because we agree and the beginning because we degree. didn't talk a lot about race which kind of troubled me, but the part that i -- the way that he talks about economic stimulus is something that many in our country might take a look at. in other words, he looks at -- he calls them the us aer the yangs, the people who talk about economic austerity and what role that has on economic growth. you know, our gdp went up by about 2% in the last quarter which is a tiny amount of gdp growth. we ought to look at the united states as something more like 3, 3.5%. but he argues that when you pull money out of economies, that's exactly what happens. and he looks at a number of the european countries. i just enjoyed that, add it to my body of knowledge because i'd never thought about doing that. joe stiglitz's book, the cost of inequality, is also something i'm about a quarter of the way through and enjoying that as well. >> host: this e-mail for you, dr. malveaux, how do you view the concept and practices of the

fed? what response do can you make to critics of the fed's creation of money from paper as a primary cause now of global inflation and economic imbalances given that regulators will never be more perfect than humanity in general? >> guest: you know, there are a lot of theories that sort of move around the world about the fed. just all kind of things, conspiracy theories. i think the federal reserve, while flawed, is essentially a decent institution. i think that there are leaders of the fed who have been extremely flawed and have a disproportionate amount of influence on what happens in the economy. i think of alan greenspan, and once he said the economy had irrational exuberance at a time when the black unemployment rate was really quite high. and that rational exuberance comment led to a bump positive in the stock market. and you say how does this one man have that much influence? ben bernanke at the same time as

leader of the fed has actually gone back on his own word. there were things that he wrote as a scholar that talked about the fed's role, but as the head of the fed he's been more timid than we might like. i don't think the fed has fueled global inflation in the past four years. indeed, i think what the fed has attempted to do is put more money into the system because fiscal policy isn't working. we'd expect the congress to do this, and the congress is basically gridlocked. so by reducing the interest rate to so low, i mean, it's around 1% which means almost free money, the thought that the prevailing interest rate is usually a few points -- 2-5 -- bo the fed's rate, o so it would make it easier to invest and buy a home. and, indeed, the 30-year home rates for purchases are about 3.5%. which is amazing. ten years ago you're looking at numbers, the %, 8%, so you're

really looking at attempting to create economic possibilities. now, part of the problem with that, of course, is that you got to -- you've got to get the bank to lend you the money. and when three years ago credit score, you know, of 700, 690, even 680 would allow you is's to a good loan -- access to a good loan, now it's 720-740 which locks a lot of people out. but i think the fed has done a decent job, again, not a great job, but i would differentiate with what the tweeter -- i was going to say the caller, but i forgot you're tweet being tweeting and doing all this. human knowledge is greater than institutional knowledge. i think sometimes that's the case, but we talk about a collective, and our nation is a collective. you're talking about action that benefits a collective, and i'm not sure that individuals would take those kind of actions like the fed has. >> host: do you think you could possibly write a nonpolicy book,

maybe an investment book? do you ever see that in your future? >> guest: i've thought about that. l i started writing a book years ago, i never finished it, called "show me your checkbook, and i'll tell you your future." you know, because people say things that they support, but their checkbooks don't necessarily support it. people say they're christian. so the question is, well, do you tithe? people say they support equality. well, which organizations are you spending your money on? and your calendar is kind of the same way. so i started writing this, and it's something i may come back to because i think it's everyone to everyone -- important for everyone to have access to financial literacy. >> host: you make mention of your baptist roots. >> guest: actually, i was born catholic. i call myself a spiritual sampler because i enjoy worship, i enjoy churches, i enjoy good preaching. here in washington union temple baptist church had meant a lot

to me, and reverend willie wilson, now, i'll admit he's a political preacher, but he always takes scripture and uses it to, basically, incite people to become more activist. before that in washington i belonged to a couple of different churches, but i've been a buddhist for about five minutes, belongs to the nation of islam for about fife minutes, you know, just -- i want to get to god however i can, and sometimes a certain kind of energy speaks to you and sometimes others do. >> host: next call for julianne malveaux, since natty. deb -- cincinnati. deborah, good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon. forgive me, there are two parts. first of me is the girl from the hood like who is this sister on tv talking like this? oh, my god, i'm just so happy. and then there's the other part of me that's intellectual that's like, hello, good afternoon, and do you think that, um, our congress will ever, ever bridge

this whole political divide between what's best for them politically, what's best for us, the people? and does our president really have a vested interest to helping the black community at all? my mother and i have this constant debate over whether, um, you know, the country's getting better or is it getting worse. she sees the glass as half full, i see it as half empty. and i guess i just want to know what you think. does president barack obama really have an interest in helping the black community, or is it just -- i don't know, or does he just pay lip service to it? >> host: deborah? what do you do in cincinnati? >> guest: i just went back to school. i work as a production artist for a printing company, and so i'm just kind of rebuilding my career. i'm totally in debt to student loans now, and my daughter is in college. [laughter] she's in the background. and we're just, so right now i'm

working hoping that i can, you know, rebuild my second career and pay off all our student loans and get us out of debt sometime before i die. >> guest: wow. >> caller: that's what i do in cincinnati. >> host: thank you, deborah. >> guest: thumbs up for returning to school. many women and men attempt to do reentry, and it is an act of courage. i always am, basically, moved by that. my mom went back to get her doctorate when i was a freshman in college. so, you know, when women decide to take control of their futures and say i'm going to do more, that's really great. ..

>> i think that african american people expected more from him. i think there was a possibility, and certainly in many cases presidential targeting. for example, he gave that when company in california that failed, about $520 billion, it is over $500 billion. why cannot a similar amount have been invested in community businesses and participation. this presidential discretion that we haven't seen a lot of, we would like to see more of.

i think that the challenges will see the obama administration in the first term, he has some of the worst advisers that one could think about. we have timothy geithner, who was interested in turn intricately involved in the financial industry. we have larry summers, who believe that women cannot learn math among other things. you have brahmin manual, the mayor of chicago. whatever he does, he is 50 times better. he is 50 times better than mitt romney. we hope people do more. african american people have to advocate for what they want. >> host: julianne malveaux, this e-mail from california. thinking back your activist days when he ran for political office, is this something you

might consider now? >> oh, no. things have changed since 1984. there is google and all kinds of things. while my private life is a heck of a lot of fun, i probably wouldn't like to debate it. one of my dreams would be to be an ambassador, but i told someone that i don't know if i could get senate confirmation. >> host: this e-mail from mussina, new york. switching gears a little bit. i'm wondering as both an economist and author, what is your take on the current state of the publishing business, and where that is having in your opinion? he asks because his wife is a published author. more than 15 bucks. and the regional history to crime donruss, no one is paying advances anymore and until the absolute disbursement date payout royalties are the only two bookstores within 2 miles work orders.

the publishing industry has significantly changed the observations that are made about advances. >> guest: you have to be a huge opportunity getting an advance. barnes and nobles and the borders of the world, they have suffered a major blow. these folks can offer discounts that are deep. booksellers can't really do that. in addition, the candle and the note, they both kind of a road the ability of authors to do well. oftentimes a major publisher will get their money and royalties, but it really does

leave questions. a lot of people have gone the alternative route, publishing their books on the internet. i love books and i love literally the feel of books. when i have on my kindle, not necessarily a permanent library, but occasionally things that i purchase on my kindle. i find out that i will really want those books in book form. so i buy them. i was reading a review when i was in an airport or something. my briefcase was full. the only way i'm going to be able to read this is online. but it's such a good book, i'm going to end up buying it. some people do it and some people don't. but the book publishing industry is in trouble because consumers are not affirming them. we need to talk about what we want to do about the publishing industry and give your wife my best and good luck to her. >> host: i have two questions.

a graduate of educational leadership rights to you. president obama surrogates have not always done a good job. he succinctly details like he is a better choice for why class americans. and second, in terms of economic policy towards africa, do you agree with [inaudible name] these is that giving it alone will not help countries develop a thriving middle class is we are beginning to see in china and india? >> guest: the working class benefits from what president obama is doing. when you talk about expanding unemployment benefits, that is the white working class. you talk about access to education, that is the white working class. you increase a number of pell grants, which is for people below a certain income.

that is not enough for a college education. over the years i have said it should be more. president bush said he would increase it and he didn't. all of those things benefit the white working class. obama versus romney, mitt romney is legislating for the rich. the middle class, mr. romney doesn't believe there is a working class. president obama certainly has not been perfect. but there are a number of things that i think he believes in, governor intervention, expansion, and increased opportunities, fiscal policy and the ability to invest. what romney is, he is an austere

person, we generated 161,000 new jobs last month and. we need about 350,000 a month to keep up with what we lost in the depths of the depression. i believe that obama will work harder to generate those jobs. i believe that mitt romney simply does not care. he says do it on your own. the catalyst system works. access to capital, i wish our brothers and sisters would look at the benefits they get things her things as opposed to believing the rate hike. the race card has been playing played all too much. the numbers, the working class white people, the content of his policies, they need to look at,

not to mention that i could go on, but i won't -- not to mention mr. mitt romney's attitudes and potential policies towards women. it troubles me immensely. >> host: this is booktv on c-span2. forty-eight hours of nonfiction books every weekend and this is our in-depth program. we are talking with author julianne malveaux. she is also a regular commentator and former college president and former graduate of mit and an economist as well. she is the author of several books. her website is julianne malveaux.com. in case you are interested in seeing the whole body of her work. the next call comes from fe in belmont, texas.

>> caller: hello, how are you doing? you are giving people an insight. you challenge them. you invest in education. so tell me why are the people so concentrated on women and their hair? i don't know what it's called. okay, let me move on. i could argue that sum. there is a college in texas. i am a schoolteacher. i just completed my phd. here is what i'm talking about. some businesses have opened, owned by black people and closed within a year.

why? some people in india and pakistan, they come to our neighborhood and open a store. why? they are still open. why have we not been educated? [inaudible] >> host: i think there is a lot of on the table there. let's see what julianne malveaux has to say. >> guest: we talked a little bit, peter, about business. and he raises a great point. prairie view, texas, the home of curry view, university. a vibrant community, he has raised so many issues were non-african-american and start businesses. oftentimes they have have more

capital than african-american stupid we are not necessarily prepared to compete with that. sometimes the whole family invests in a business and the whole family is one of our reasons why different businesses succeed or fail. more than half of all small businesses will fail in their first year. if you live in prairie view, support your businesses. you talk about education. again, we would be jointly passionate about the issues of education. i commend you on finishing your doctorate and the work you are doing with our young people. we just have to keep them straight. some friends tried to give me a statement one-time. it's in his vacation is over, i washed it and it was back to itself. i got years ago to keep chemicals out of my hair. i probably won't like this for

about 30 years. the little girls wanted long hair and one of my favorite hair stories is when all four of the girls were taken to a beauty shop in this place, and they said they wanted the cocoa. it scared away all my other customers. here is a sacrifice. >> host: "wall street, main street, and the side street" you write about how when main street shutters with fear, wall street week reacts with glee. the relationship between laos and soaring stock prices is both shortsighted and frightening. >> guest: that book was written in 1999. an employment rates.

>> guest: wall street has to maximize profits. that means that when labor costs go down, other costs go up. eventually companies are going to see a downturn. that is where we are seeing people. they are not spending people because they don't have money. that consumer confidence did kick up in the last couple of months that preceded this one. people are saving and they are frightened. the spending data will not push wall street up. but it is almost like cannibalistic for wall street to celebrate and distress.

>> host: julianne malveaux is an economist. does she think that the inefficient banks should have been allowed to fail as an economist? >> i think some of the inefficient banks should have been allowed to fail. president obama asked timothy geithner to allow one or two of them to fail. that is one of the reasons they had for advisors. i don't think anyone is too big to fail. i think some of the things come it was appropriate to bail them out. my biggest challenge is that they want condition. >> host: dee jackson writes, how do you feel about president

obama's job when you're one of his presidency to stop foreclosures? >> guest: i often prefer for president obama to clinton. on other words, he spent political capital on health care. many would say that the health care legislation is as revolutionary as franklin roosevelt introduction of minimum-wage legislation in a number of other things. i think that there would be 2010 elections, president obama may have been looked at differently had he done jobs first. >> host: from lynchburg, virginia, is sheila. sheila, good afternoon to you. >> caller: good day. >> host: you are on booktv. please ask your question or comment. >> caller: thank you so much for allowing me to be on your

station. doctor julianne malveaux, i am so enjoying your responses. it is fabulous to hear the details that you are giving out. it is wonderful. my main question is, i have a young lady, my daughter, she's 12 years old and are going to be 13. i have been taught beautiful writing from our people. i was wondering, how would i get that to be something that my daughter would really want to be interested in? i'm finding it difficult to find things for my needs to continue to keep her interested in growing and math. >> guest: thank you for the question. i agree with you we want to get our young girls reading and writing and doing the best that they can. there are not a lot of black women images, black girl images in children's books.

but if she is bright enough and focused enough, and i am sure that she is coming you can start her on adult rating. one of my favorite books was written by paul marshall in the 1950s. it is about a girl struggling in the direction she is going in. it can be something that a 12 or 13-year-old could begin with. giovanni's poetry, she has it book about claudette colbert, who was a woman, rosa parks, that's a good book to take a look at also. there are a number of other things that aren't that complicated, that really sparked attention. i have a 15-year-old nephew going on 16 years old. matthew brown out of atlanta, georgia. he doesn't restrict himself to children's books for teenage books. he will be just about anything.

he is exposed to reading. when they are exposed, they will gravitate towards it. take them to bookstores. let her wander around the bookstore with a gift card for maybe $25. and say you pick the book you want to read. that is one way of sparking it. one of my proud accomplishments, here in washington dc, on brown v. board of education in 2007, bobby clyde named the library after me. it is the julianne malveaux library. there is a quote in the library that i will share with you. i read it when i'm happy. i read when i'm sad. i read when i'm lonely. i read when i'm mad. my mom has a couple thousand books in her library.

choose to put the books were not for kids on the upper shelves, and then we could sort of take advantage of the lower shelves. i hurt myself badly climbing up the shell to get a book. if she said that she did say if you want to do that, you can read it. it does have some sexual content that was probably not appropriate. but i kept asking, what is this and what is that going through the dictionary. you know, the book was kind of hard for me to get through, but after i had fallen, i was going to get through it. i would say to your knees, let her run roughshod through bookstore. >> host: what is it about leo tolstoy's anna karenina?

>> guest: i'm not sure of the quote, but happy families are not all that interesting, but they are the subject of fiction. i don't like the way it ended, of course, but the whole notion of women's choices about how women make choices and also how traditional society displays women. contemporary society or even a century ago, you didn't have that kind of constraint, but you did have some constraint. look at the susan be anthony's in the world. half of those women were put in mental institutions because of the women's right to vote. they literally thought that they must be crazy if they wanted to write about. so let's put them away. as recently as the late 60s in california. a man could just spend his life in a mental institution for no reason. you don't want to washed the

dishes? you're crazy. then you're an your institution. people thought anna karenina must've been nuts to leave her husband and go after a young guy who probably wasn't thinking about her at some point. just the whole notion of women's choices. >> host: you also list under greatest influences, delta beta theta sorority past president. you have mentioned the sorority a couple times. of times. what is the significance of the sorority? >> guest: it was founded at a university in 1913. we were about to celebrate its centennial next year. it was a place for women to explore roles. the african-american sororities and fraternities were founded at a time when african-american people were at college, but could not necessarily joined those institutions. for example, alpha phi also was

founded at cornell university. again, a place that was phenomenally white. i owned a chapter in boston. basically they provided us the opportunity. it is a public service to worry. it is a sisterhood and service. many of our members, sororities, we have many people who continue sororities because they care about public service and the sorority provides them with an opportunity to basically deal with this. how come everyone can come together is one of the callers who called and said that today. jeannie noble, president way back when, deceased about five

or six years ago, she wrote a beautiful book about the soles of my black sisters, it might have been one of the first books that talk about black feminism and the number of things. she was autistic as well as something of a revolutionary. >> host: just about 12 minutes left in our discussion with julianne malveaux. author and columnist. we have another caller. good to hear from you. >> caller: yes, hello. i would like to thank c-span for the "in depth" series. there are wonderful african-american women.

[inaudible] thank you and we love you. >> guest: thank you so much, it's great to get a caller from greensboro, my old stomping ground. helen burroughs, she was an educator. i think that what pulls all the women together, all around, they were educators and they believed firmly in education. there is a palmer institute outside of greensboro, and in fact, what's really cool about it from the same architects, they built the buildings they see similar architecture. you see the power to transform lives. $1.50 was used to start a college. now it is a thriving school that does enormous work. the previous president, doctor

judy, and a wonderful woman. but when you pull all these women together, it is investment in education that made the difference for them. >> host: julie and boston e-mails here. julianne malveaux, thank you for your time. i've been enjoying your discussion. i felt very inspired by many issues. however your response to a caller who stated you were a homosexual disappointed me greatly. i can understand your anger at the viewer, making assumptions, and i can understand your correcting the facts. however, in your response to this caller, you did nothing to stand up for the rights of gay people were there people standing in god's eyes. >> guest: i want to thank you for the message. i support equal writes for everyone. frankly, if i were gay, why would it matter? the fact is that the caller made an assumption that i did not appreciate. i wasn't really angry, i was disappointed that someone would just say something tha they had

no evidence about. should i have said more about the rights of gay and lesbian people? perhaps. but that was not the question. that was directed to me. again, let me be clear that i support rights in all of us. including gay and lesbian people. and i understand the wave of discrimination and how it has riveted the community. i did not like don't ask don't tell is an army policy. i don't like the fact that some folks can't put the pictures of their partners you know, on their desk without having questions be raised. folks have the right to the hospital or do other things when they are dying. i don't think you can find a stronger advocate for the rights of gay and lesbian people. however, when the question is directed to me about my lifestyle, it is appropriate for me to answer it from the narrow perspective. >> host: julianne malveaux's

books include "sex, lies, and sterotypes: perspectives of a mad economist", "wall street, main street, and the side street", unfinished business, the 10 most important issues that women face today and trento. 365. >> caller: i've always appreciated your comments and the conversation you have carried on. i am also pleased to see you have such great influences. that also influenced me. the question i have is in listening to you today, i'm talking about the economic restructuring and all that. in my mind, the global system is

going through the same transition after the railroad or transportation system was expanding -- on the political or economic rest, i think the whole thing. the social economic displacement of different people within america. and i'm wondering is this the integration of technology in the financial sector from a global perspective, is it creating the same type of economic displacement or conservatively structured of western economic systems. america from england, and all the other european countries. >> guest: you know, i've often written about this, and read a lot about this reconstruction period. if you talk about the book the assassination of abraham

lincoln, it is really about some people taking back games that other people had made, more particularly southern whites taking back the gains that the african-american people had made. those were connected to industrial transformation, and so when you were making -- and in an industrial transformation that went into the turn-of-the-century and one that caused job conflict among african-american people and recent immigrants. if you look at chicago and other places, you have good manufacturing jobs. african-american people were withheld from them. fast forward nec, as you say, the expansion of the financial service industry and electronic media. expansion on a number of other industries, additionally, look at hurricane katrina and the

aftermath. there is pay inequality. unionized african-americans got $40 per hour. african-americans were on unionized, about $20 an hour. an undocumented people about $7 per hour. a lot of people were angry with undocumented people. but they should have been angry with was the company that chose to discriminate along the line. it is very similar to what happened post- reconstruction. when you combine that with the issue of voter succession, which certainly happened post- reconstruction, where the rules changed and you had to read at a certain level and have property in order to vote, now in south carolina and many other states, former felons cannot vote. in one state, i believe in mississippi, you have to go as far as 100 miles to get your polling place. which means if you don't have an automobile, it could be

problematic. it looks at the return for the post- reconstruction era. it is something that we need to fight. >> host: we have another tweet don't you think the role in education should be the same as the black church? >> i think the black church should play a greater role. some churches in washington and the country have their own charter schools. i don't think that's a bad thing. i think when the church is connected to a school, you are doing both religious education and basic education. many churches have the ability to do it. especially someone wealthy churches. if they don't do that, what they might do is what i call the saturday school, which in the jewish community in particular, but in other communities, if you're not getting your education monday through friday, come on saturday to the church and get the supplemental education. >> host: as in the economy, what

advice would you give to president obama in regards to the job creation issue? >> guest: i would like them to use discretionary dollars if he has them, target them to inner cities, and look at the possibility of creating jobs especially in those places. why those places when the unemployment rate is high everywhere? because it is higher there. if someone says we have a jobs problem in appalachia, the money would go there. but when you say the african-american community has a jobs problem, people are reluctant to do that kind of giving. i would tell the president to do some targeting. number two, i would say to the president that we need to look at intention reform. we have a bunch of older people about to hit retirement and we are not sure what will happen to them. that is something he can pay attention to. number three from a macroeconomic perspective, president obama really needs to

pay attention to fiscal policy and perhaps working across the aisle. that is more easily said than done. the tea party has had such a line for republicans that many are afraid to have a civil conversation with democratic politics. the president obama has such a forceful and positive person around it. when you're surrounded by the right people, that is a great thing. this election will hinge on the way he's able he is able to communicate with people about what he has done for the economy. if i were his economic advisor, i would tell him he got a lot more to do. >> host: julianne malveaux, mentioned walter rodney's book is one of your favorites. how europe underdeveloped africa. who was walter rodney? >> guest: he is a historian, i

believe he is a british person of african descent. he wrote about the role that europe has played. any number of things that you're dead, that we divided up. cold war and non-cold war. in the period of the 1940s to the 1960s. we invested in these countries in ways that were not productive. the road kind of went nowhere. the world bank and others have invested, but they chose companies from other countries, denmark and other places, when the money ran out, they stopped building the roads. your pets played a negative role. if you look again in ghana, the days of independence were really days where the rich just took everything and took so much that they took the phone from the walls and people who were

attempting to build a country had very little to build with. that was the result of a long period of independence. when independence came about, the european countries that essentially controlled these countries, and you can see that what africa and other parts, controlling those countries. they just completely pulled out. that connects to a question, a caller from prairie view, texas, who asked about the investment in africa erodes independence. but our investment in the marshall plan in europe and england -- david rhode province? >> no, quite frankly, it is quite vital. we built countries and now they are very vital. we have to be caref. in some countries, school

supplies from uniforms, and all those kinds of things, investments in education and health, investments and women's development, they are all very important. investments have become the foundation for building countries. putting money in the bank and end up with a million dollars in their accounts in geneva or something else, that's not a great idea. but targeting investments always ends. >> host: surely from georgia. you are on the air with julianne malveaux. >> caller: hello. do you think the black -- >> host: surely, you have to turn down the volume of it on turn on your tv. discuss your question. >> caller: when president obama took office, -- when he took the

unemployment to keep them down from turning out to vote for him? because some of the jobs now, but you apply for, says that you have to take assessment tests. a lot of black americans can't pass those assessment test. >> guest: the unemployment benefit extension that was passive in the 2009 extended the period a time where people can get unemployment benefits for 99 weeks. i think that was significant. unemployment benefits i think are unevenly distributed because african-american people often comment that i want to talk about assessments, but often have not been in a job long enough and basically collect unemployment for the assessment test issue goes from state to state. one of the things, there is no

test that african-americans cannot master. and so we need to be prepared for that testing. but when that tests prevents people from getting jobs, i think that we need to talk about remedies, which may include the masses. i would not place this on the shoulders of president obama. >> host: with e-mail for you doctor julianne malveaux. this is from james gilbert in boca raton, louisiana. please comment about boycott intellectuals like shelby foote. >> guest: i'm not afraid to say that we end up with different kinds of conclusions. two weeks ago, the text for the congressional black caucus invited me to debate armstrong williams around issues of the

undocumented people. as they put it, illegal immigration. and we had a very lively kind of conversation. you know, i would like to see more of that. that is the kind of conversation i think is more fruitful than the three minute spot to get on television. again, i'm not sure what is meant by boycotts. we don't agree with these folks and we pretty much say so. >> host: james in detroit, you are on and we have just a few minutes left. >> caller: thank you very much. i have enjoyed everything. the question i have, which one of your books would you recommend for my daughter. she is 38 years old, she has a degree, just for inspiration and etc. >> guest: i would say "surviving and thriving: 365 facts in black econimics history." i think she will find virtual role models and people that actually will keep her pumped up. these are folks who essentially achieved against all odds.

people from a historical context may not have been seen as achievers. but they took a position. a question about women from greensboro about women being educated -- one of our favorite stories is $1.50 and now that it is a thriving college. >> host: veronica from middleton, delaware. >> caller: hello. doctor julianne malveaux, i would first like to congratulate you and thank you for all of your representation of the black community. but i do question, why after a first caller called and made a comment about the use of -- the lack of use, excuse me, of your status with a doctorate degree

-- why did c-span not address that? also, your interviewer seems to kind you continue to call ur ino kind you continue to call you by julianne malveaux. i am wondering for you, because i know how much you must have worked to get this degree. is that something that concerns you at all? >> host: are at c-span from one of our policies if you are a medical doctor, we will use that in your title. if you are not, we will put your name up there. julianne malveaux. that is the name that has been up there. and if you noticed, i have mixed it up and call her doctor julianne malveaux, we do not use first names there. i will not just refer to her by her first name. you will see a mix in the last few hours and i think it has been pretty fair to think that doctor julianne malveaux would agree with that. thank you for calling him, we appreciate it very much. you have any, you want to make.

>> guest: i think in an academic context, of course, respect is due. i don't ever want someone to call me by my first name when someone else in the same conversation is referred to as doctor. the policy of medical doctors is one that you find in a number of places, oftentimes equivalent might be to say julianne malveaux phd as opposed to doctor to eliminate confusion. but i haven't found any bias in the conversation. however, i want to thank both colors for calling about that. because oftentimes, african-americans are not given the dignity they deserve. and i recall many times in my career were again i am being called by my first name and a colleague is being called doctor. that is when i draw the line. >> host: finally, this tweet for you. what issues should galvanize african-americans to strengthen our political prowess? >> guest: i think this whole

issue of voter suppression should galvanize people. when we see the voter suppression policies, they seem to correlate with the 2012 election. this is something that we need to fight what we need to go from state to state to make sure that people have to go. my sister, antoinette, who lives in seattle, spoke to me the other week and it if it takes 130 miles to get from one polling place or the other, why don't we go down there and drive them to their polling place. it returns us to the days that my grandmother tried to vote in mississippi in the 1950s. and she had to read from greek. she was an educated woman with a ba degree. this is how you kept black people's votes. you changed the barrier, they changed it and we have to fight back. >> host: for the last three hours, julianne malveaux has been our best here at c-span on