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tv   U.S. Senate  CSPAN  August 8, 2012 12:00pm-5:06pm EDT

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international civil aviation organization to adopt technical instructions, which alpa is working to elevate to standards. we also continue to press the department of transportation for an faa regulation regarding the carriage of lithium batteries. another key aspect of one level of safety is the safe integration of unmanned aircraft systems or as they are now being called, remotely piloted aircraft into the national airspace. our key message here is all aircraft and aerospace where we fly must meet the same safety standards the we currently do. period. it doesn't matter whether a pilot is on a conventional flight deck or sitting in a
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control station on the ground. hi ct standards must be established, and they have to apply to everyone in the aerospace. alpa as a member of the aviation rulemaking committee uas and the special committee developing standards and we will continue to participate in those groups to advance the goal. as part of our continued advocacy of the risk-based approach to the airline and airport security alpa will continue to push for action for increased funding on the successful federal flight deck officer program to read this is a highly cost-efficient pergamon which airline pilots are fully trained to protect their flight decks as federal law and was that officers. the producers as a key component of the multilayered purchase
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aircraft security. we continue to work closely with tsa and the federal air marshal service and other industry partners in the u.s. congress to resolve issues which of an impact on the program's overall integrity we will also continue to urge action to advance threatened air space management so that the air transportation system is positioned to swiftly and effectively respond to potential security threats. to in the laser attacks on aircraft to improve the security of the cargo operations by giving more, by doing more to secure the flight deck by installing secondary barriers on the aircraft and particularly on the cargo aircraft that do not have fortified flight deck doors. by adding a full sight of protection for all domestic
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airports serving all cargo operations incorporating fingerprint history checks for all persons with unescorted access to the cargo aircraft and the goods they carry. by mandating training for the flight crews in the cargo common strategy and improving the systems and use of technology for the screening of the cargo loaded on the aircraft. we will also continue our partnership with the tsa to expand the known crewmember program to make it available to all u.s. airline pilots and flight attendants. in canada it was also a strong supporter of the restrictive access identity card program and we urge the continued implementation.
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alpa also continues to work related to modernizing the international airspace system in which we operate. many who are involved in the implementation of nextgen initiatives are getting frustrated with the pace of progress. as that frustration grows it will be important for alpa to remain the honest broker in shooting the procedures implemented to increase capacity do not adversely affect safety or private workload to read in the area of pilot assistance, alpa is working to ensure all commercial airlines have professional standards programs. alpa has a participated in an faa aviation will meet in committee to address like crewmember professional development and conduct. we expect the public advisory and or rulemaking guidance for the programs to address these
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issues. this guidance will serve as a basis for fostering professional standards programs for both the u.s. and canadian airlines. in mission, alpa recently published a white paper to address the issue of pilot occupational safety and health and highlight the need for a dedicated division within both the faa and transport canada to focus on these issues. this white paper will be used as a basis to approach both agencies to ask for government support of the programs to promote public health and safety when it comes to aviation safety mission by every measure, we are making real progress. but these statistics don't come out of nothing. they are the result of a collective effort and constructive partnerships with all stakeholders, legislators
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and regulators. manufacturers and operators and other employee groups and labor unions. many of our partners are taking part in the air safety forum this week. our panelists, our sponsors and our exhibitors are helping make the event such a success and for working with alpa to advance our mutual goals. now, it's my great pleasure to introduce our keynote speaker, the honorable john pistole, administrator of the u.s. transportation security administration. in this role, the administrator pistole overseas management of a 60,000 strong workforce. the security operations of more than 450 federalized airports throughout the u.s., the federal air marshal service, and the
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security for highways, railroads, ports, mass transit systems and pipelines. under his leadership, tsa continues to grow as a risk-based intelligence driven counterterrorism agency dedicated to protecting ourtrsp. administrator pistole tsa as a 26 year veteran of the fbi with extensive national security and counterterrorism experience. after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, he was put in charge of the fbi's greatly expanded counterterrorism programs. eventually becoming the fbi's executive assistant and a tractor for counterterrorism and counterintelligence. in 2004 he was named deputy director for the fbi.
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he had led or had been involved in several high-profile investigations including the attempted car bombing in times square may 1st, 2010. the december 25, 29 attempted attack on a northwest flight to 53. the plot against the new york city subway in 2009, the 2006 u.k. book with explosives plot and the may, 2003 suicide bombings of the three housing compounds in riyadh saudi arabia, in which 30,000 people died including nine americans mcfate he began his career as a special agent with the fbi in 1983 serving in the minneapolis and new york division's before his promotion to a supervisor in the organized crime section
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hincapie with fbi headquarters in washington, d.c. in 1999 as an assistant special agent in charge in boston he helped lead the investigation and recovery efforts for the egypt air 990 crashed off the coast of ryland. in 2007, pistole received the everett h. levi award for outstanding professionalism and extempore integrity she is a recipient of the 2005 presidential rank award for the distinguished executive service. since his confirmation in july 2010 administrator pistole has been one of the most important partners through his leadership, the known crimber and trusted traveler programs became a reality the success of the known crimber is a result of
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alpa a4a and ed pastor pistole is central to that success. last month that tsa took the known crimber program to the next level when it announced that flight attendants cannot participate in the program. alpa has been a strong proponent for including flight attendants and non-crew member and we fully support their participation in the program. administrator pistole embodies many qualities that week for have come to rely on when we in advance aviation safety and security goals and since i became the president of alpa we have developed a constant dialogue. he's honest and accessible. he has a collaborative spirit and he is always open to include alpa and come to us for our expertise and help and he is the precise type of leadership that washington needs especially at this time. on behalf of alpa, we value and
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appreciate his commitment to the industry, our profession and our members. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the honorable john pistole, and minister of the transportation security administration. [applause] >> thank you. [applause] thank you for the gracious invitation. if you ever decided to run for congress, and i would like to look for your early and often. thank you. it is a great partnership and a privilege to be here this morning to address you as i did last year a lot has happened as the captain mentioned in the last year, and i would like to highlight some of the security aspects and challenges that we collectively face in our respective missions and our effort to provide the most effective security and the most efficient way to help promote the free movement of people and goods worldwide.
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so the three challenges i would like to focus on our the threats that we see, the security challenges to passenger airline, and then the second, which is right into the all cargo carriers and then the third is more the issue that i just shared a little bit with you about in terms of the strength of the work force professionalizing the work force in an efficient way so the context for this year's conference in terms of the threat environment to start with passengers just three months ago we saw the second attempt to bring down an airliner from the plot out of yemen by al qaeda and the arabian peninsula this was the second plot used in an improvised explosive device that was completely nonmetallic that was a new and innovative design and concealment technique
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similar to the christmas day attempt of 2009 but with a different type of explosive involved in different initiation and detonation system that had a backup system to overcome what was perceived as a failing of the christmas a plot in 2009. and but for the extraordinary intelligence to the foreign security intelligence services coupled with u.s. government work, but for that extraordinary work that individual who turned out to be a double agent for the security services would have possibly been successful in his attempt in al qaeda and the arabian peninsula desire to insert that person with a suicide bomb into the global supply chain, presumably on a flight coming to the u.s. as his instructions were from the
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leadership of aqap. we see these threats evolving and we see them changing. again, the fact that they use a new type of explosive is an indication that you're going to school on what they believe our detection capabilities. and the techniques are. so we have to learn from those and not just be reactive but try to be predictive as to what those threats are and how we can stay at least a half a step ahead of those threats. so, in response to this threat, we have recalibrating all of our exclusive tracks detection equipment across the united states and encourage not in the regulatory fashion but strongly encourage our international partners to do the same. we also had our canine out there going through the process reprinting their detection capability for this new type of explosive, this new type of explosive to ensure that a 59 might pick up on this type of cent. so we see this ongoing challenge of dealing with the evolving
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threat come again particularly coming out of yemen but we know there are others situated around the world who have the destruction of a u.s. airliner or flight coming to the u.s. either passenger or cargo has been their top priority, and really being the gold standard for them to prove that they can call this harm. ..
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are regulatory action inserting a ban on cargo coming out of yemen at that time but then the unintended consequences that resulted from that particularly as it related to the movement of mail and parcels around the world. looking back, we realize that we have had a series of events going back obviously to 9/11, but prior to that act in 1995 with the plot that we are familiar with. multiple airliners coming from southeast asia and in that instance and then the continuation after 9/11 with richard reid in december but one with a shoe bomb and the plot in august of 06 in the continuation with abdulmutallab on christmas day 09 of the cargo plot and then this most recent one end of april, early may of 2012. those are the ones that have succeeded to the point of
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actually being a plot against the u.s.. we are also aware of two female suicide bombers in the fall of 2004, flights out of moscow within 90 minutes of each other bringing down those two airliners. we believe because an insider issued that these two women, the black widows they referred to them as probably chechen related brought down the two airliners and killed 90 souls on board those two flights of that is something we see continuing. the challenge for tsa and i believe for everybody interested in safety and security of passengers and cargo as it relates to the rest, what is going on here and the intelligence is such that there is no known specific credible information as a release to individuals trying to get on an airline here today in one of the 450 airports, commercial airports that we have the responsibility for providing security. that being said are concerned is a concern i had while i was at
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the fbi overseeing the counterterrorism efforts is not so much that those we know about, those that are on the no-fly list who should not be flying or does it have some association with terrorism and who we believe and obviously deserve additional scrutiny at the checkpoint they are trying to fly. those are not the ones who are of concern. it's those we don't know about who it been radicalized perhaps on the internet as we have seen a number of individuals here in the u.s. have been and those who have acquired the wherewithal, the knowledge and the skills weather with a chemistry background or whatever. if they're wreaking -- reading the anarchists cookbook whatever does that allows them to build an improvised explosive device that they conceal on their person is a suicide bomber in their carry-on bag or there checked bag or perhaps shipping something on cargo. that is what concerns me and how we can work in partnership with
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you and honestly as part of the u.s. national security efforts were tsa is at one end of the continuum with the other nsa cia collecting intelligence helping inform our daily actions so as i mentioned last year every day we start the senior leadership team of tsa starts with a classified intelligence briefings saying here's what he cares are thinking as far as how they might go about causing us harm and that is the challenge that we face. as it relates to cargo and the 2010 plot, because we see particularly al qaeda in the arabian peninsula of being interested in bringing down any aircraft coming to the u.s. or a portion within the u.s.. we believe the layers of security that captain moak mention that have been in the u.s. clearly serve as a deterrent. we know that from classified interception and human reporting so we believe that the layer of security we have here are a deterrent.
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that being said then that we work with their international partners to see over 275 last points of departure coming to the u.s. particularly as it relates to passenger and all cargo? how can we ensure that their standards are such that we can have the highest level of confidence that there is not a terrorist being able to exploit vulnerabilities that may exist overseas. so their number of efforts ongoing in that regard and one of the key takeaways from the human cargo plot in october of 2010 was the initiative and innovation of industry particularly all cargo industry to step up and do a risk mitigation assessment and then take steps beyond regulatory actions to ensure the best possible security for their world right cargo supply chain so it would go way beyond what we have in terms of emergency amendments or security directives to the regulatory
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action because recognizing as you do that it's in your best interest to provide the most effective security in the most efficient way. the question is how can we then do that in a partnership worldwide? there a number of issues that are ongoing as we address them but one of the key aspects in terms of mitigation, when we talked about all this is risk mitigation, risk management which we do everyday in our daily lives and their personal lives in addition to business. we are not talking about trying to eliminate risk which we can try to do as we did after the yemen cargo plot and as a mentioned with the issuance of the emergency amendments shutting down all cargo coming out of yemen so that is one way to deal with it. there are a lot of costs associated with that so how can we best work together to mitigate or manage risks in an informed fashion? the two things we are doing we are doing now is it relates to cargo which are building on the industry initiative that they have taken particularly here in the u.s. to address those
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potential vulnerabilities are the air cargo advance screening initiative that we have and border protection and industry which is very simply coming down to the notion of who can we identify as a known shipper and known shipments and how can we get advance information about those cargo shipments and as early as possible and opportunity so we can take risk mitigation steps including perhaps the additional screening of individual parcels or pallets at the last point of departure or even sooner. there is an industry initiative which is looking at what has been described as virtual last point of departure that involves additional industry involvement to say even though the tsa doesn't have regulatory authority over the other airports that lie -- how can they work in concert with our standards to say that
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there is commensurate security being provided at those virtual places so that is something we are exploring with the industry to make an assessment of how we can partner and leverage our responsibility and opportunities to address some of those challenges. so that is the current threat content that we are working with an. the threats are real and the stakes are high. how do we continue our collaborative efforts? at me talk a little bit about risk-based security as captain moak mentioned. with all due respect to -- our initiatives include of course they know crewmember program which was something that i saw when i came -- became an administrator to years ago as the key opportunity for expanding existing programs in airports to the point of differentiating between who gets our aircraft because we know and trust them and if we don't know
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and trust them to get us safely from point a to point p., 20,000 times a day in the u.s. then i'm not sure what we would all be doing. and so with that simple recognition, informed by my experience with over 26 years at the fbi where i'd traveled. every time i traveled on business and was simply go to the ticket counter, fill out a form. the ticket agent would have signed it and i would take it to the exit lane and show my credentials and the form and the law enforcement officer in many airports but not all, within sign that. i would sign it a law enforcement book. when i came to tsa, what we are already distinguishing differentially between both passengers and pilots, flight crew in some respect, because we don't trust people for whatever reason so that is what rps is
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all about, risk-based security. how can we provide the most effective security in the most efficient way? we are working and great partnership with captain moak in terms of expansion of the known crewmember program and as i mentioned we are in 18 airports and we will be in 31 airports by the end of year and perhaps even sooner than the end of the year. so that is a significant savings for tsa to say why should we be spending any time other than screening with pilots and the entire flight crew? why should we be spending time physically screening them when we trust them with their lives to get us from point a 2. b. as we expand that we look forward to that continued the continued partnership and we applaud al and a4a in terms of that initiative working with us to allow us to focus our time and efforts on those that we know the least about, those that we no, date of birth and gender for a secure flight.
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the second part of rbs that i would like to highlight is the tsa pre-checked program and it's something again that we recognize that all we know about people the more they volunteer information about themselves through the complier program through the u.s. major carriers or the border protection's global entry program, the better judgments we can make at a time before anybody ever gets to the actual check.so we do prescreening of those people who have volunteered the information about themselves and then in most instances we will allow them to go through a screening with a dedicated lane. i was in indianapolis yesterday, the second-largest carrier for fedex in the country. announcing the expansion of the tsa pre-checked to the indianapolis international airport is the 21st airport we have brought on line in partnership with the airlines, with the airport authority and
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all those who have a vested interest in that. the plan is that we are still on schedule to expand tsa pre-checked to 35 airports by the end of the year and if you have not seen it demonstrated or yourself in some other capacity in most airports there is a dedicated lane and we allow passengers to keep their shoes on, a light jacket on and keep their liquids in aerosol gels in their 311 bag and their carry-on along with your laptop and in most instances they would go through a walk-through metal detector. we have greatly improved the efficiency of the checkpoint for us as we get more people through an expedited fashion because we have done that prescreening and then the opportunity is for more time clearly with those who are on the terrorist watch list or again those data protection officer may identify as needing additional scrutiny. the pre-checked her grandma
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something that we are embracing wholeheartedly to add initiative and innovation for us to say let's get away from from that one-size-fits-all construct using a risk-based approach and let's focus on those higher risks because we know the least about those other travelers. now since we started tsa pre-checked last fall we have had over 2 million passengers go through and there is strong bipartisan support on the hill for the pre-checked programmed and rbs overall. the only complaint i have heard is why not more sooner and we are trying to be very deliberate in dealing with security matters and we want to make sure we get it right and the process and protocols are in place. there have been some questions about whether this is an international program and obviously for the navy representatives here and others, right now it is just a u.s. domestic program but there are in discussions with others and in fact i had a meeting last
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week with my counterparts from the european union, canada and australia to discuss a number of different issues in anticipation of the international civil aviation organization high-level meeting next month in montréal. there are a number of issues coming out from that meeting at one of the things we have talked about is a possible expansion of rbs principles and policies internationally and would there be reciprocity so for u.s. pilots does that mean you can go through pre-check and fly to the e.u. canada arras cholla and they would accept you presumably? that would be the case and that means would we accept, if they institute similar programs would we accept them coming here based on a prescreening they have done or whatever program they set up so there's a lot of interest and continuing dialogue about that. we will look arafat into an -- 2013 to see what the possibilities may be. other aspects of rbs involves those other groups of people children 12 and under
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recognizing they are not terrorists but a different type of screening and again everybody still goes through some type of screening whether it's prescreening that i mentioned earlier or a physical screening that is involved, 12 and under 75 and older again recognizing that there may be some terrorists and there are some people on the terrorist watch list but we can always afford them additional screening if we believe that there is current intelligence mostly people from decades ago and i believe pose little if any threat to civil aviation. members of the military, we have initiated that program both that dca and sea-tac in terms of the pilot air force to initial airports where we provide the expedited base for the pre-check screening for members of the
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military and a common access cards. we are trying to move away from that car designation where we need a separate card reader to do a list-based serve approach similar to what we do with pre-check and vetting the information the bar code for those trusted travelers. on her flights coming back here to d.c. to view the world war ii memorial obviously we believe them to be known and trusted so we provide a different type of security for them. and then there are other chested groups, those who we know a lot about and their employment, their work background and examples there include the u.s. intelligence community, those with top-secret security clearances, those we trust with our nation's secrets and recognizing that there is no guarantee in any of this. we can always find an exception in any of these groups and say yes this is a bad person so we will always be unpredictable as
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part of a screening. it is a privilege to go through the tsa pre-check process which we can revoke at any time in effect we have had several people go through where they forgot that they were carrying a firearm and so those people are no longer part of the pre-check program because of something we happen to have some focus on in terms of how we move forward and identify those who we can know and trust. so let me move on in terms of with rbs as we look to expand that. we are currently in discussions with private industry and with our own folks to say how can we expand the tsa pre-checked top elation so the idea it's even though we have had a brilliant people go through and we anticipate additional 1 million people perhaps each month for the rest of the year, maybe add to that population were going through as we expand the number
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of airports were interested in trying to identify those people who perhaps aren't the -- flyers or don't have a passport so they wouldn't qualify for the global entry program but who may be willing to pay a fee not necessarily to us but to the private provider to have some type of background assessment done and then to provide that information to us. the airlines provide that information to us through some mechanism that would allow us to identify them as a known and trusted traveler so that is something we are working on. again we will see what happens through the rest of this year but we mentioned that -- i mentioned that as a way is trying to expand the trusted population as we continue on. so moving on to the third that i mentioned, strengthening the tsa workforce, this is something that we are working on in several respects. one is, we have created a tsa
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academy coming from the fbi and those coming from the military academy, recognize the benefit of having an academy where new hires can train, develop a discrete core and have a sense of ownership in a broader context. we don't have money from congress to build the tsa academy but we are using space in georgia and where is available and there is a small sign -- but where we are starting training and we have started with our supervisors who are are on the frontlines there with the transportation security officers. i believe supervisors are critical any time of going through significant change, that they'd be empowered and ensure that they have all the tools they need to help drive the change that we are going through at tsa, and so we started with
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the first several classes of supervisors and we have complete training for all those supervisors in the next year and a half. the key is to give them the leadership skills from past leadership training but then all those things that are important for a supervisor to be able to give feedback to the workforce and to focus on that change both in terms of risk they security which is a paradigm shift and also as we embark on the new collective bargaining agreement, a historic agreement we have with fj with which negotiations concluded on that last week. as we move forward with the union to say here is how we need to go about going about business with these two major drivers of change to help rationalize the workforce and again the key is how can we provide the most effective security in the most efficient way and the professionalization of the workforce is one of the key enablers. one of the other things we are
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doing is providing training for every single security officer in communications, taccom and it's a simple technique for how to de-escalate a confrontational situation so a number of these officers have not have this type of training and it's simply you engage a passenger who is upset for whatever reason, how to de-escalate back to get the job done in terms of the security mission that do it in a professional way that helps defuse whatever tension is there and try to work that it -- threw that in a professional way. we have trained over 35,000 officers in that taccom training and we will continue that over the next several months. so let me move on to a number of different initiatives we have in terms of the workforce. my three expectations for every tsa employee are hard work, professionalism and integrity and when we fall short of that, which we do sometimes, for
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instance in the news about a security officer stealing from checked lines for passengers are just doing things that are not professional, then we take steps to address that. last year we created an office of special responsibility that handles the adjudication of misconduct cases like that in a uniform, consistent manner so if somebody had lax does something or jfk does something similar adjudication of those investigations will be substantially similar. we have penalties in three categories. one is -- if there is no mitigating or aggravating circumstances. predictability to the workforce to say if you do this and you are judged guilty that you have done that then you have a pretty good sense of here is what the adjudication of that will be so it instills more confidence in the workforce in terms of moving
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forward. something bad as i was doing in town halls two years ago when i first came in, i found a lot of concern and heard a lot of concerns about the arbitrariness and lack of consistency in terms of that adjudication. the last point i would like to make is just on the way forward. where do i see things going in terms of our partnership, in terms of risk they security? just a couple of points on that. first, we want to expand the rbs principles and policies, populations in a reasonable, sensible way that addresses the different populations in a way that i described earlier, and i welcome alpa's input to that, those that we want to continue expanding that population. we are looking at different possibilities in terms of what
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the checkpoint of the future might look like. iota has been strongly promoting a checkpoint of the future which we have a lot of interest in. we think it's a good idea from the standpoint of how is that actually accomplished. right now the technology for an integrated solution to walk through one checkpoint if you will that would detect all types of threats is not there but we are interested and i have talked with industry about that in terms of their initiatives and innovations that can get beyond just the spiral development of normal technology development to get to a -- technology in terms of detection of multiple types of threats so that is what we are entering into but in the meantime while the tech knowledge is work on those solutions we believe that rbs risk-based security initiative is incorporating the principles of the checkpoint of the future
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by getting to people before they get to the check point in having different levels of security screening afforded a somewhat we know so very similar principles there. we endorse that. the last point is that the partnership with alpa has been and will continue i believe to be a key enabler of what we are doing at tsa to provide the most effective security in the most efficient way so i want to thank you and thank captain moak for that leadership as we work together to ensure the best possible movement of people and goods with the best security possible and with that thank you for your time and attention this morning. thank you. [applause] >> alright we have time for just a couple of questions this morning. and if you would go to the mic, we will start right here.
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>> you spoke about the tsa's new approach to the agencies -- approach. i was curious what challenges have you faced with these issues? >> thank you. it is a paradigm shift. we are redefining who tsa has and how we go about executing our mission so there's both internal challenges to commit to the workforce of this makes sense because everybody is trained that anybody can be a terrorist so we have to treat each person accordingly. so there is has been basically an educational process with the workforce and particularly with the leadership and the federal security directors who embrace this and who have to drive the chain so that is why i do a number of town hall meetings and talk to folks and do all kinds
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of things to try to communicate what is the reason behind rbs, the risk they security initiative and then there's the external stakeholders and again alpa has been a great supporter in promoting that both were pilots and flight attendants so appreciate that. also the interest on the hill is keen. the industry. coming back from indianapolis yesterday, i saw the united magazine in the pocket there and there is an article by the ceo and his column called tsa pre-check with a strong endorsement of what we are trying to do. so it is that type of engagements and partnership because this is all done with partnership. throughout the -- without the airlines, will and the fight associations we wouldn't be able to do that. >> we have time for two more.
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we will go back over here and then we will come back that way. >> yes, sir. i just wanted to ask you real quick you said as a result of your fbi experience you were not necessarily concerned with the 70,000 people under investigation for terrorist related activities. and that law enforcement and the intelligence community know about these individuals before they reach the airport. my question is, is that the tsa's responsibility or is it another organization's responsibility to identify the terrorists or terrorist sympathizers who had been radicalized or who may be sleepers and not identified by the intelligence community? could you comment on the government success in identifying these individuals? >> is a shared responsibility. first as concerned citizens or they see something say something umbrella or the local police who may do a traffic stop or respond to a domestic or a situation where they come across
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information or something that is of concern. the primary responsibility from the federal government is with the fbi joined task force and error there are over 100 taskforces comprised of state and local police and all in all types of others including tsa marshals in most instances and so it is that a shared responsibility for them to identified those terrorists on -- in the first instance. if we have to rely just on -- in a void in not having anything identified at this check and it makes our job much more difficult. we have to get it right every time. it's not a perfect system and everybody recognizes this. we relied on those other agencies including the overseas collection and the two best exples are this most recent underwear plot a few months ago
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and the yemen cargo plots were there was specific credible intelligence that led to the identification of those two cargo packages and then this individual who was a great undercover agent. it was the intelligence on the front and that allowed us to do the best possible job here. >> i am phil marshall. i have done a seven-year investigation into the 9/11 attack. you keep mentioning the bojinka plot and the underwear bomb and all these. i am curious, in that report, the 2002 congressional joint inquiry report that senator bob graham headed, he recently filed a suit against the saudi arabian government and it has 80 pages worth of evidence on the saudi team that was in the united states were out in the arizona desert, training for the 9/11
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mission. i am just curious why you did not mention that? >> well there are a lot of things i could've mentioned this morning that went way beyond my limited remarks but the fact is 15 of the 19 hijackers were saudi. the saudi government took steps particular after the may 12, 2003 bombing in riyadh that captain moak mentioned that i worked on to take steps to address both al qaeda operating on the arabian peninsula but the fundraising that took place in the kingdom and took a number of steps to address that so there are a lot of other things that i could have talked about but the focus is on how do we move forward given the context of those prior plots and what have we learned from them and how can we work in partnership to best present that posture? >> that is all for the questions. administrator pistole thank you so much for talking to us today
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and taking the time. >> thank you. apostasy now i will turn it back over to captain moak. [applause] >> okay, thank you administrator pistole for your comments. it is now time for first break, rather short break. we would like to restart at 10:00 a.m. so please visit our exhibitors and sponsors out in the area and please be back at 10:00. i'd like to give a special thanks to the airline pilots association credit union. see you in a few minutes. ♪
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>> i had no idea about the experiences of many of the people who were potentially my predecessors as correspondence or diplomats in berlin and despite all the time is spent in germany i hadn't spent a lot of time thinking about what would
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have been like to be a correspondent there in the 20s and 30s and you know how would you have operated? what would you let noticed or not noticed much less how would you have acted? according to a survey by the national business group on health released earlier this week the survey outlines cost of health care plan changes for 2013 and adjustments businesses are making. this briefing of the survey is about 40 minutes. >> good morning. will come to those of you in the room, and for those who are watching this on line through
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c-span. we are very glad to have you join us today. i am helen darling, the president and ceo of the national business group on health and with me is craig lightens who directed the survey and also wrote the written report that you have access to. i will make a few general remarks and then give some of the highlights of the survey and then open it up for questions and comments. first as i'm sure you know, employers are very concerned about the severe cost pressures from providing comprehensive -- comprehensive health services and help and if it's. with the supreme court's ruling on the constitutionality of key provisions of the affordable care act, employers at least are facing slightly less uncertainty. the key word, slightly less uncertainty. employers are now waiting for guidance on how to comply with
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the remaining provisions and to learn what will happen with the health insurance exchanges in all of the states that affect them. most of our employer members are in all states are certainly many states so what happens at the state level is unfortunately important to them, because as i'm sure you all know, under idrissov they are permitted to have a uniform plan nationally and the affordable care act could negatively affect them. they also understand the presidential and congressional elections could have a big impact on what happens with the affordable care act and a lot of those things that affect them directly. the survey of large employers health plan design changes that we are releasing today is the first bet is issued that provides details on what
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employers will actually be doing in 2013. this is not what they are talking about doing. this is what they have decided to do. if you do a survey in the summer, since late by then large corporations, large employers have made all their decisions for the next year and this is the first one that is released. in their survey we asked our employer members to provide information on their 2013 plan offerings, including changes due to the affordable care act, medical plan costs, consumer directed health care, healthy lifestyles and incentives and pharmacy benefits. this survey was fielded between june 10 and july 6 of this year. this year 82 members participated in the survey in the survey results reflect the plan designs of various employers ranging from those that have less than 10,000 employees, u.s. employees, to those that have more than 100,000 u.s. employees.
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in terms of key findings, the passage of the affordable care act has reduced how confident large employers are about the likelihood that they will still be offering health benefits a decade from now, that is more than 10 years, 10 years or more but employers remain very confident that they will still be offering health benefits five years from now. so basically, they are relatively confident, that is very confident about being the ones who provide health benefits within the next five years. they know that they have to control costs. you know we talk a lot in this town especially about the long run and the short-run. corporate and if its executives live short-run and frankly corporations live in the short-run. in fact most employers live in the short-run so that is what really matters in right now
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controlling health care costs remain the highest priority. we also -- they also know and they have certainly said to us already that they will work hard to avoid the so-called cadillac tax. 40% excise tax on high-cost plans, so they are doing all that they can now and in fact they started in 2012 in order to bend the curb as dramatically as possible to avoid having to pay that tax. in terms of results due to the affordable care act and the changes they have made, nearly all responding employers offer at least one planned with plan with the flexible spending account option and almost all will have to reduce their fsa's, flexible spending account limit, to the laws limit of $2500. now i will make an editorial
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comment on this. this was not asked in the survey but this is a point of considerable importance to employers, because lowering what is possible with fsa's means people have the highest out-of-pocket costs are limited at what they can set aside on a tax basis and historically that wasn't true. so you know it's something again i am editorializing in this case. this is something that it least in the past and talking to our members has been raised over and over as a problem. many respondents believe that, going back to the survey, that some populations connected to large employers such as early retirees, that is pre-65 retirees, cobra plans, those people who are no longer employees or dependents of employees who would get their health insurance through cobra, and part-time or seasonal
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employees might find that entering the health insurance exchanges at the state level would be an attractive option, which should be roughly in the fall of 2013. when i say roughly it's mostly what time of year but it has to be -- those exchanges have to be operational by january 1, 2014 so basically we are talking about next year, which i can assure you is really close right now. costs are top among employers. they are budgeting so that figure you see, 7%, corporate employers, large employers are budgeting on a median basis of 50% below and 50% above. 7% for 2013. this is the same amount that they also did for 2012, and i might note that the 2013 amount is on the higher base.
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each year each year but goes up 7% of base is higher so the idea with a the percentage that goes down because the base is going up but that doesn't mean it will happen for the most part. while 7% is well above the rate of inflation and on top of the higher base i know that the 7% is down from the 7.7% that was budgeted in 2011 and 8% in 2010. i would note week use the figure budgeted and i will explain that. most, virtually all large employers are self-insured, so they use insurance companies only for administering claims or perhaps they might buy a network from them. they buy a set of services but they don't pay insurance companies. these are claims. does exactly what is paid out on behalf of every employee independent who is covered so that is the 7%. that is the number that they give, the projected amount, to their cfo so what do you need
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for benefits next year and they are saying in 2013 you have got to put aside again a median level 7%. that is a lot as i am sure you all know. there was a big story in the times this morning. it's an interesting story but in these terms it tells you that one of the things that most corporations are doing right now is being very worried and very anxious about what is happening. so that 7% on top of essentially no growth or limited growth is a serious problem. and now these employers use a variety of tools to keep their medical down to the 7% on average. the 7% is what we call after plan design changes that this means simply, they are putting in changes that will be controlling costs somewhat and they are estimated -- estimating
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it after the planned design changes it will be 7%. when asked to name the most effective ways to control costs, 61% of respondents believed that implementing consumer directed health plans is one of the three most effective methods for controlling costs. and 43% reported that the consumer health plans are the most effective tactics to use. so they are among the top three. they are also the most effective for 43% of those. in addition, 61% of respondents indicated that wellness initiatives are one of the three most effective methods for controlling costs. you might note in the pack in front of you that is a powerpoint slide 12. only 36% cited increased cost-sharing among the top three and i think partly this is an
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interpretation of the numbers so they didn't cite that, except in a third because they worry at this point about to high cost-sharing hurts low-wage employees and also they think that high cost-sharing can also discourage the use of appropriate care. ..
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cost sharing at the time of service, which by the way itself was a historic change in benefits. so this is all sort of interesting how these things tied together at. more than three-quarters of employers, 79% make online price transparency tools to find information about the relative price and quality of providers. this also is a big jump and i will go off on the survey we would say this is a major trend in the u.s.. price transparency across the board, and everybody i don't care what side of the aisle you are on or what philosophical view you have everybody believes
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having price transparency is essential to transformation in the u.s. health care system. about 32% are either currently were considering contracting with surgical centers of excellence to improve quality safety and efficiency. so about a third are contacting separately with centers of excellence. the adoption of consumer direct health plans among large employers is very high at 73%. there was a slight increase in the percentage of those who are offering consumer directed health plans on a full replacement basis that this some employers offer a choice, some employers say you have no choice accepting the size of deductible he will have to take the consumer direct health plan. we call that a full replacement. a large example of that is eg
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who has the requirement. so that went up slightly from 17% to 19% if i got that right. but the adoption of the consumer direct health plan especially when you saw originally that many employers think that is the most effective tactic for controlling health care cost you could imagine that is a trend that is moving and will probably move faster now. 49% of employers offer a health savings account, and this is a tax protected amount of money that belongs to the employee, and 52% of employers have a health reimbursement account, health reimbursement account is one that is given to the employees and that is at the organization work for that employer word retire from that employer they get to keep fat but they don't own the account
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unlike the health savings account and so those are two different accounts. both of them are tax protected but they obviously have different advantages and disadvantages. 49% and 52% of those were the health savings account and 52% was a health reimbursement account contribute funds based on whether an employee he participates in a wellness program and living a healthy lifestyle so there is a movement now to words essentially paying employees to participate in the of improvement programs or to make changes that will give them a healthier lifestyle. employees generally continue to experiment and perfect the best way to incorporate financial incentives and to their wellness program. the median amount of those responding to this survey that an employee can earn by living a
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healthy lifestyle and or participating in lummis programs increased to $450 in 2013. so what they are paying them is going up. nearly half of the employers have one or more on-site health centers support of the movement towards wellness and health improvement is to bring services on site for the employees and frankly on balance they probably saved some money for the convenience of the employee and the increased access, so when you think about it, if you think about how you might get something checked out or let's say you have a back injury and you need physical therapy the amount of time and energy use and going to and from the provider could require that you take a day off work so on site health workers help employees and they also help ensure that the employee is getting the
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right kind of health care. maybe not overly aggressive on imaging were on lots of things. in terms of pharmacy benefits, we found that steps therapy and prior authorization were the most commonly used tactics for specialty pharmacy costs. step therapy is when you're asked or required unless you have a medical reason to take the less expensive drug first, and if that works, you don't belong to the next one. if it does and then you have the next drug. but you have to go through that. unless there is a medical reason and prior authorization is exactly what it says it has to be approved in advance. in terms of conclusions i would say we are not tall surprised that employers continue to work to moderate cost increases and look to consumerism and individual accountability and both of those things are a
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shift. to ensure that employees and independence understand that they cannot just employers, but they can't be great deal to control their costs and improve their health including reducing list factors that they may already have. so typical model is that an employer would say to get your benefits are to be any plan or to have a reduced contribution you would naturally have to take a health assessment or to a biometric screening and then risk factors would be identified and then you'd be working on those riss factors. we can talk in some more detail about what that involves, but basically it's a kind of hand holding through the process hoping people will improve the life styles to be healthier and thereby reducing the risk factors the employees that were
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released a week before last, employees are beginning to understand that more and more spent on health benefits means that they will have less cash income for the other family and household needs. employers are also highly engaged and improving employee health through a wide range of programs including financial incentives to participate in health coaching. a really amazing number of employees now are providing health coaching services to people for a variety of reasons but mainly health improvement, wheat management and things like that. employers know that they have to use a combination of tactics. no one of these things will do it. they have to be doing virtually all of them. to reduce cost increases and reduced the demand for services because of employees for health haven't to the to have it or
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other things they might be able to have some influence over reducing the risk factors for serious illness or disease. so, with that i will end and welcome you. do you might say in who you are? >> thank you. >> chairman bloomberg radio. with regard to the controlling costs, to your members have any feeling whether the cost control provisions in the affordable care act will be effective that is the encouragement of accountable care organizations a title of experts as opposed to the recommendations and so on, and in terms of consumer direct health care i have heard that phrase every year for a decade and the only answer i get is to what it means you can make some choices on your insurance. but if i have a sudden pain in
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my lower left appendix area, what choice do i have? the doctor says you do this or you do it. >> okay. let me see if i can remember the second one. i will do the first. so, generally our members are concerned that the affordable care act does not have enough ways to control cost that cost control methods basically got dropped were vitiated i would say even when they were left in like the independent ipad. we are very concerned about cost and the cost will go up, not down. and i would say in particular some of the mandate and some of the related requirements, the administrative requirement, the benefit mandate all will drive the cost and there are no countervailing sources and in fact some of the things we would want to do to manage cost
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essentials the won't be possible. limits, having limits of some sorts. so yeah, let's i would say. but even the way they are managed, so fidel wall doesn't specifically rule out some things like prior authorization. but any time you put in benefits mandates or require mandates then in effect you have to have something that stops overuse and misuse and so if you don't have some management tools available, then you can't manage them so that's the problem. in terms of consumer directed health plans, first of all of you have a white culture and paint there is a good chance that appendicitis you're right you should go to the emergency room or if you're doctor's office is open go to your
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doctor's office to take care of it. but the vast majority of medical care, probably over 80% of medicare is not emergency and it's not something where you don't have some control including if you look at the percentage of people that go to emergency rooms for basically not even urgent but huge, and there's a lot of waste and the breeze and delete the minute you get in the emergency room they are going to do things to you that if they have to do because it is an emergency room but you don't really needs if you have a good primary-care doctor which we hope consumers some will make sure that you have a good primary-care physician so that you get the right kind of primary care that is what consumers and is all about and that is what -- >> [inaudible] >> but most of them don't do it. maybe it is over 100 that's the trick. other questions. yes.
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>> roger wallace from fox business. you mentioned at the top about employer employees rather companies being a little less on certain about their health care situation since the supreme court rulings, but he went on to say that there is still a number of things hanging out there that continue to increase. we all know that uncertainty in many cases will reflect directly on job creation and so what are your survey respondents telling you about where they think their health care issues will go beyond 2013? >> well, we didn't exactly ask that in a way that i could answer for you. i can tell you what we have in the constant communication with our members on these topics. so, there are a lot of concerns. some of the biggest are things like the essential benefits. a decision was made to the states to say that instead of
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the federal government saying what is essential benefits would be, that has its own problems by the way. but in some ways, for employers, worse case, is having a state-by-state decision making process and having their ability by state and also we believe because there's plenty of evidence state legislatures are even more permeable if that is the right word than the federal legislature, it is a lot easier to get things passed in some states than it is the federal level. so, if you look at state mandate, there's a long list of mandates. most employers don't like state mandates because they go overboard and then reduce the flexibility that employers have to serve their own work force, which is a variable. then of course there are different ones of each state than they are stuck with that. so that is a nightmare.
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if you are a company -- if you are a large corporation every state in the union, you have to have 50 different health plans. i'm not saying you do yet. and everyone could be different. so, you're talking about increasing by 50d expense you make in administering your healthcare plan. the uncertainty and the fear that if it is left in the hands of the state we would have what we have now that people in the state have to do with the state requires. but large employers, multistate employers are protected by the federal law erisa that insures the can have a single health care plan around the country and that has been around since the 1970's to protect interestingly pension plans, but it affects health care plans. so once it becomes state by state, it is a mess, and it's
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very expensive. it is administratively expensive and it's expensive in terms of what could be gotten through in the mandate. so that is just one example. >> how did the current results of the survey compared to the rejections in the obamacare plan going forward? >> we haven't done that. i can't answer that. but i can tell you that since these are rich benefits, and most of the estimates are based on more national numbers these would probably be higher because they are rich benefits. all of these employers had very comprehensive benefits. the more comprehensive the benefits, the faster that they arrive. succumb if you do -- i can tell you that every time i know we have people from kaiser if you look at the surveys their projections tend to be lower and i believe that is one of the ones that the use to do projections like the urban institute and cbo and others.
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those numbers are smaller. they cost less. not hugely less but enough and that's why we use our own figures because we kind of wish we had caught this because your both comprehensive. jerry? >> jerry dysart from business insurance. >> your numbers project an average or median increase of 7% next year. have you gone on and previously looked at have the projections that members made compared to how much cost actually increased? >> we do it a little bit, but we don't do it systematically. but i would say on the projection, first of all as i mentioned, this is the number
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that they give their cfo and the rule of thumb in life is in corporations is cfo can put up with a lot but they do not like surprises so their tends to be a conservative projection. if they believe it is going to be 6.5 or 6.75 and they are not certain about what it's going to be, they would say 7%. so this is what they estimate. they can't get in trouble if they come in under 7% but they can get in a lot of trouble if they come in over 7%. but there is a range. the important thing is employers who are more aggressive in terms of putting in cost control programs they are going to have a lower rate than 7%. we have people who are also considerably above 7%. >> yes? >> jill with managed health care executive magazine. just to clarify under the aca
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the past employers do have common national benefits protected by erisa is no longer the case as they are establishing national health benefits that they're basically won't be erisa protected benefits across the country. >> yes and no. erisa laws not removed, and there is and clarity on how that is going to work that is if employers have -- with the have to do in terms of the exchanges, so there is a lot we don't yet know about how this is going to work. we don't know. >> if i could just follow up. under your survey it seems relatively few employers still have grandfathered plans.
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so do employers now expect that the idea of the grandfather plan is basically going to disappear in the next year or so? >> for those of you -- i don't know how much you follow all of this but grandfather plans as part of the law if you have a plan that was grandfathered then you didn't have to do certain things until it was no longer grandfathered. i was surprised as many have grandfathered because you lose your flexibility. some employers have multiple plans even though they have a single plan of let's say active employees they might have a separate plan for the retirees. in fact when i had benefits at xerox we had multiple retiree health plans. so i might have chosen to keep grandfathered the retiree plans because i wasn't going to change those any way and that would keep me for having to do certain things. but i might say i want to have flexibility for my active plan, so i won't worry about keeping
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those grandfathered. what we have seen is more and more except for those kind of leftover if you will we are not going to touch them. employers don't want to give up the flexibility and they just will not worry any more about keeping them grandfather did. yes? >> modern healthcare magazine. i just want to follow up about five response on the employee groups expected to find all the exchanges. and it lists full-time employees, current full-time employees and has 16%. t you have previous responses to that question and do i understand correctly that 15% of employers are considering putting employees and exchanges? >> welcome i don't know the answer to the prior year. >> its consistent with last year's response but this isn't necessarily employers giving their employees to the state exchanges its individuals may be
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seeking the exchanges on their own. >> but it may be -- it may be good for these individuals to use the exchange. its active basically that suggests they wouldn't be covered by the employer. i am not terribly surprised by the 16%. some employers insure they are thinking that might be good especially for the low-wage employees. when you look at the data on with a low-wage employees would get command in fact they don't get a subsidy of any kind in nd en deployment relationship and in fact that's probably why an awful lot of them don't take the coverage so this will pick up people who really can't afford even a good employer plan because it costs them money and
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they don't have it. if you look at the numbers on household and, and you look at something like a restaurant worker or a housekeeper in a hospitality industry then that individual let's say makes come just guessing, $25,000 a year. that person, that's before taxes, so i don't know the exact number but let's say it's 22,000. maybe 23,000 so somebody can do it easier than i can. then you say to them family coverage is going to cost me be a bargain at $200 a month. that's $2,400. did i get that right? the chance that that person is going to take family coverage is probably slim to none but if they go into the exchange, they would add that pilat will probably get a substantial
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subsidy. >> just to follow up on that these types of companies would be subjected to the penalty per employee penalty if they have any employees that get subsidized exchange coverage? >> yes. >> john reichert of congressional quarterly. with a number of predictions about employers kind of throwing in the towel saying we are going to do the defined contribution approach to expect most of your members over the next decade will do that? >> well, no, but i think we are headed to a defined contribution approach already. if you think about that, the ability to provide a health benefit is going to be tied to the revenue of the company. all of the employers for the government. keep in mind that many of the employers in this country many
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of the largest or governments. so, their ability to provide health benefits that are growing at that rate, 7% per year is declining. and as you know if you just go back may be ten or 15 years, employers basically gave you a card and you went in or may be paid five or $10, walked around, got tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical care for a couple hundred dollars in out-of-pocket cost and we have moved towards more and more out of the paycheck employees and cost sharing at the point of service, something like for example increases for emergency rooms if you go to emergency rooms and it's not an emergency then you're going to pay a lot more. so we are moving if you did some kind of grass and you will see that we are moving more and more
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employers are not picking up the full additional cost every year that they used to do. employees are spending more and more of their own money for health care and health benefits. so it's a modified defined contribution. >> why don't they sort of go the next step and actually do the defined contribution and have that certainty about their expenses? >> i think in the short term it continues to be true, and also this was in our employee survey. the number one benefit valued by employees today compared to the past held benefits. so, if you are in what many employers have for talent, then you have to provide or you feel you have to provide a really good health benefits and if you are in one of the industries that are booming and there are not many but there are some, then you might even -- there are companies that provide health
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benefits at virtually no cost to the employee. those are the ones that are doing really, really well. as long as it matters to the families that they have coverage, and frankly the more complicated it's becoming a the messages we have had about not having insurance and how bad it is, the more valuable. it didn't used to be. i've been in benefits most of my adult life and i can tell you what used to be like number ten on any list of what did you tell you most in your job? and now it's way up there. it's number one. so it's changed a lot. i said the question over here. >> alisa with the international news group. i wonder if you could give some perspectives on the split between the kind of pressure the employers are placing on the workers as compared to the providers. there are some in the survey about direct contracting, but it seems like most of the survey is
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focused on what are you doing to get the workers to be more accountable from the cost perspective and to bend the cost curve that way. >> that is a great question. actually, historical even if you go back to the 80's, the early 80's, most employers that's exactly what they did. they sort of said whatever employees get, it's right and if we have problems, let's fix it. the managed care, the entire managed care of what some might consider a debacle was all about exactly that and what came out of that was the employees, the consumers among other things going to the press and the movies and the legislatures and other things we don't want constraints of any kind we don't want managed care recertification. we don't want to be limited to which providers we can go to. we don't want any of these things. so we went to an era that
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started in the 90's, started in the 90's and really goes up until about three or four years ago in which employers said okay. you want it all you can have the organizations and pay a little more if you go outside of the network but if you want freedom we will give you freedom. we will let you do we want to do in a kind of back off. what happened was two things. they found that the costs soared, utilization, and nothing changed on the provider side. so now we are going back. it's really a really cyclical so we are going back to the employers saying we are going to limit what we give you. we are not going to pay on an open-ended basis. you want all this freedom, fine, take the freedom, but you are going to pay the full difference in some instances. and then employer -- providers are beginning to wonder stand both from the government and other sources they have to change, but they are not
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changing fast enough from the employer's standpoint so that is why we are doing the direct contract and putting it on site in the health centers and trying to find all of the letters putting the price transparency we will see more what is called referenced pricing. this has become very common. you will not only see what something costs, but your employer or your health plan will tell you we are going to pay its say the median price in this community for a particular kind of image is 1200. there's everything from 800 to 5,000. and the employer, the health plan will say here are all of the prices. we are going to pay up to $1,200 would see the media or the 25 percentile. if you want to go to the place that you think is most convenient that as a preference pricing is we already have that
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in prescription benefits in many instances. as we've come full circle again. we are going back. as i sometimes say to providers because i speak to them a lot. if you think -- is what you hear is sounding more and more like a virtual managed care, you're getting it. that's where we are headed. again, employees will have the opportunity to pay more if they want. so we won't get into that. you have to choose yes or no. and that's where we are headed. by the way, that is what we are headed with medicare and medicaid as well. other questions? >> okay. if not, things you very much for your time. >> live once again to the air line pilots association forum on air safety.
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in this session a discussion on safety issues at airports. this is just getting under way. >> in a productive manner. i'm very pleased to see as members of the joint faa industry, runaway safety council and the cause analysis team, we appreciate an excellent working relationship with the faa, airlines for america, the national air traffic controllers association, airports council the international north america, the aircraft owners association, and the other member organizations in identifying and implementing solutions to airport issues. it is my pleasure to serve as the moderator for the roundtable discussion on five major topics of concern of which i will ask each of our panel members to provide their unique perspectives. they are ground collision and their avoidance, berm strike mitigation, runway excursions, winter operations and airport construction. i'm happy to have with me on a panel individuals from
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government and industry who have the experience and expertise to discuss all of these issues. all of their biographies are left in your handouts that you were issued on your arrival today so please take note of the many accomplishments and positions held by this distinguished panel. beginning first to my left, mr. patrick dalai lama director of the office of run received yet the federal aviation administration and most notably a former pilot and fleet manager was wisconsin airlines. to his left, mr. rick lowen regional vice presidency for the southwest region for the national air traffic controllers association and is a diaz still huge tower controller as well. mr. smith director of safety for the airline for america and mr. chris also a vice president of safety and technical operations with airport council in the co-chairman of the faa's research and engineering development advisory committee for airports which i also have the privilege of serving also.
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thank you. [applause] we want this to be a true round-table discussion on each of the five topics and everyone on the panel has a role in addressing each and every one of them. so, gentlemen, please jump in and provide your perspectives. we will also wrap up the session with a short question and answer period with items to touch upon that we touch upon in this panel. one thing i would like to ask you, the audience is when you ask your question, please identify who you are and with which organization you represent. i appreciate it and many thanks. let's start our discussion on runway safety and ground avoidance. alpa has been active in the faa's council and its smaller root cause and analysis team to reduce one kuran we incursions'. the group has made progress in investigating these events and developing recommendations to mitigate the reasons for the root causes of resulted in the runway incursion. a significant issue to address
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is a public and vehicle operator to compute what is being done to make sure our pilots and operators on the airfield are aware of the practice is? we will start with you. >> steve, thank you for the association and a free and here for allowing me to attend. we have certainly had our fair share of the hinkle pilot deviations and we are addressing that through several training courses that are being developed currently. they've been cochairing with us along with flight standards to develop a training course for all foreground vehicle operators. we take it very seriously to really a several in the very recent past that could have been serious events, and though there has been training in the past for the vehicle operators on airports, we have found that we could go a lot deeper into the training to provide possibly better training course and also recurrent training so all of these are being developed as we speak and they are very high.
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>> great. and for the airport operator as well. >> for the airport operator we have had programs i do have to give a shout out to our companion i don't sit companion organization may be sister organization the association of airport executives steve mentioned them and they've been probably more significantly involved in the line providing training materials, best practices and training courses. i think some of the adel demint really has been making those types of training programs to more closely resemble the drivers are actually facing through simulator based training. i think that has taken some root, larger airports more notably in some all of smaller ones. the kind of recurring types of activities just to encourage awareness over all because the training is as good as it can be a couple weeks after you are
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through the training course, but to providing drivers come all drivers with the same types of tools that the pilots have. checklists, mental lists or reviewed as you get into that vehicle and as you are operating it and as important as that recurring training can be. we have worked to distribute materials, checklists to our member airports and can be provided to all drivers as they enter the vehicles and practices to engage as you are driving as well as the checks to make as you get into the vehicles things as simple as making sure your on the vehicle when you are entering it in all of the vehicle systems are operational deutsch of the frequencies turned in and you are ready to change, you know what frequencies you need to change to as you progress to across the airfield. we also have -- i brought my visual aids through the world organization in number of standards and best practices were moved in the midst of
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updating. i would point specifically to the ear site safety handbook that we've produced through the world organization that a new version of this is due to be released in the coming year. so i think a number of activities on a number of fronts not just training that on building awareness as well. >> there is some sharing going on that works just like we do here with our member airlines different carriers and different backgrounds and different demographics. if we can share with one airline has the other airline may not and i think it is great you are doing that with the airports. excellent. as we know we're parts contain a mix of traffic and statistics show serious the categories and be incursions' are of this year and the general aviation demographic. we as airline pilots share this base and those runways. what is being done to make sure the general aviation community is as well-trained as professional air line pilots? >> steve, you are right to the general aviation incursions' or not this year. part of this we feel is a better
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reporting and more thorough reporting system that has allowed controllers to report events and increase the quality of the events that are reported. however, you bring up a good point we have a large general aviation population out there. a community that is very tough in some cases. we have over 600,000 certificate policies across the united states. when you try to break down what organizations to these pilots belong to, whether it be the aircraft owners and pilots association which is roughly $400,000 there, paa, the aircraft association is about 160,000 members there. alpa somewhere in the 60,000 neighborhood peabody even if every one of those belong to one organization, you've still got roughly 7,000 pilots out there that maybe don't belong to any organization might be flying off the grass somewhere not a controlled field, but have the opportunity to fly into a
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controlled feel that any moment's notice. how do we've reached those 7,000 pilots? and how we know that it is the 7,000 pilots? we have other people on the airports as we just talked about. when i come into the office of the runway safety i found that several of the manuals and flight publications offered were in conflict with each other, so that was one of the first projects i tried to tackle. we took care of the pilot handbook of aeronautical knowledge which is available on the web site. we took that from being a small to page section on the one runway incursions' and we allowed a whole chapter to be devoted strictly to the runway incursions', as we've got about 25 pages and now that it's all been freshly updated again it's available on the web site. we are trying to promote the pilot handbook of aeronautical knowledge is out there for aspiring pilots, flight instructors the looking to get involved in aviation. i know when i came up through
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the ranks, that toole wasn't necessarily there but it's free and it's available to the pilots to take a look at in the internet. in addition to that, we found out the message that was in the aeronautical information manual was off on the subject we were trying to portray. we were clearing of the aeronautic and formation as well to get all of our manuals in concert with each other. trying to reach all of these pilots across the nation, we of nine regional offices scattered across the nation and real of outreach we of the venture airshow in oshkosh wisconsin. there was a very large event everybody knows about oshkosh. we also participate in the fund event down in florida early in the spring. we have a booth with the staff by runway safety folks that is a
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large event both of those are very large events for our office and we love the outreach there and we had a lot of handouts and materials and some of those materials we partner with the aircraft owners and pilots association. we've been a partner for many years we have flashcards we produce that deal strictly with runway safety. they are also available for free online through the faa website for the run 3-cd website these are major even as we do all of the smaller refunds, too. we go to the flight instructor refresher clinics. we are trying to get the word out to the instructor's which we all know is a very fluid and a dynamic situation right now with the airlines hiring relatively fast pace it's hard to get like instructors training oliver new pilots, soviet and the flight instructor refresher clinics.
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we've also found that in the past the runway safety wasn't necessarily a point of focus for a student pilot or private pilot as they arise in for drinks even through the commercial flight instructor or the atp. we part north flight standards and we have in the practical standards which is the bible for getting a reading we have a special section specifically on the runway safety so pilots will be trained on runway safety and they will also be checked and the check for all of those ratings as the progress through the ranks. they're the few things we are doing. we have a big job ahead of us. trying to find out who those 7,000 pilots are that the national runway incursion is a very difficult task. we partner with a company called turning point technologies and turning point gives us a system to the refresher clinics and other outreach events and we use
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the system to do polling orie testing system of all the pilots got a vehicle operators river is present and we do in off the cuff test just kind of a version of what we are doing here today to read a little bit of a round table, a little bit of a discussion, and we take those results from those tests and we compile them at the end to try to figure out what it is that we are missing. what are we doing, where are we failing to get the message out, and so, with the turning point technology system, we have a very standardized set of questions. we compile all the answers at the end and to training at each of the defense on site after each question we will go through the answer with the people that are present and then we'll log all of those and come back and compile those and it's been a very enlightening experience. we found there are many places that we as dfa or the designees in the ranks as the designated pilot examiners have been failing. we haven't been checking more training are testing pilots on some of these items and
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something as simple as a runway hold short line we see people crossing the short line several times a day. how do we get the word out that we have to stop and hold short at the line you have to have clearance to cross. so something that seems very basic to a pilot like yourself and all of the airline pilots that are here today, we do see it in the airline ranks. i hate to say it but it's not just a gao problem. r-ga problem is roughly 80% of the runway incursions' but they are still 20% that are caused by the airline profits, the fractional pilots, the military and other various fractions. so this isn't just a gao issue although we do tend to spend most of our focus on g8. we plan that the airlines will train and teach safety as much as they can. we've also delved into providing materials all of the facilities across the united states. i know when i went for one of my training sessions here with the faa i walked into a simulator
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facility and asked where is all of your training material for the runway incursions' and other things the offer for free and they didn't have anything on the site so i asked my staff to get in monteux all of the facilitators with airline and the corporate world and let's get some of the materials out there. again, everything is available for free on the office of runway safety and through the website. so, for those of you that in the departments of the airlines were working with the 91 or fractional operators, we are asking you, we are begging you to please get in touch with us and ask us for what materials you would like and we would ship them to you at no charge so you can have them available in your training departments. >> that's great. i tell you what from an outside observer seeing the activity going on inside regarding this issue, you are doing an excellent job and we believe that there are folks in the offices there that are trying to solve the incursion problems and you are doing a great job, so i appreciate all of that hard work. sometimes people with the best
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viewed at an airport or the ones they see in the air like the air traffic controllers. what are the controllers and to keep the pilots away from the runway incursions'? >> welcome in the last couple of years, three years really, they've had the opportunity to get more involved in the working collaborative lead a whole number of projects we have a couple hundred of our people plugged into a lot of different programs just like i work with you all on the other runway safety issues and the big thing that we are really seeing now i believe the best gains and an improvement in that collaboration is that a lot of our training in the past is sort of five been doing air-traffic for 23 years and for 23 times i've seen the exact same briefing on the taxi roots, thunderstorms and so on and in the last year or so the controllers have been involved in changing that and training into something that's real and
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tied to things correctly happening and will be beneficial for controllers to be applied at go downstairs and read the briefing on thunderstorms they will send the whole crew down there and then have a discussion about the issue of. so, we are being more proactive lawfully and less reactive to the point. and then by developing the training programs ourselves, i think they are better received by hopefully better received by my peers to know that we helped develop them and that we seek their input and how best to make those improvements and what i found very interesting and i am sure you all experienced it because you visit a lot of airports historically don't they almost all seem to do it a little bit different everywhere they go so we are sort of trying to homogenize better the way we are doing things and it's -- no
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one went out with the malicious intent to do something differently. it's just there hasn't been a systemwide oversight and having us involved in getting and going from a tower to tower and talking to people and making suggestions that if you would look at it perhaps in a slightly different manner, you might be able to improve things and a lot of that comes from rcat. with the g8 being an issue, if i can i will go out to the airport and observe the operations and having the benefit of the controllers mind which is a scary thing to see, i can kind of understand how they've gotten to where they are and perhaps find a place where they may be able to massage their operation or air traffic wise to hopefully put the pilot and a better position to succeed. if the rule says do this there are several different ways to accomplish that. and i can just say this and you
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may or may not find your way to the runway. i could choose to break it into a smaller groups of taxiway and what we would call steeper to the caper stop at least as a safety net to leave out the whole bravo and for a person in a small aircraft on a big airport such as the one i work that there is a lot of concrete, and until i find out on the airport and drove around with the airport operators, i had no idea they could hold. that thing is big from 300 feet in the year and 4 miles away it's not all that big, but that is a lot of concrete so i can see how people get lost out there. so we are trying to through the local regional recife held up the towers get our controllers involved in those. one of the messages and sending out to the representatives is please come to the airport to work.
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i know you have worked at that particular airport for 30 years and btu helped build it but when is the last time you ran out on it and having that perspective, that's a huge tree also, it used to be called now is the flight deck program and hopefully some of you have had controllers in your flight deck. that is an invaluable experience for us. one is to learn a flying an aircraft and the impact of a lot of things because a lot of my peers don't have a flying background. but also, if you could help us by doing your briefing prior to leaving the gate because we don't want you doing anything but driving your aircraft ground when you are, point out ahead of time which you know are the hot spots on that airport has to taxi out you are the expert of what it looks like from your perspective, and i just know i see the same thing hundreds and hundreds of times a day and it works out 99.9% of the time. if you tell the comptroller ahead of time look for this
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whether you are talking on the surface of the report or maybe their arrival or departure that you are going to fly, that will help them to pay attention better because we walked into the cockpit and it's like sitting in front of the lights right here it's like opening the refrigerator in the middle of the night you can't see anything because you haven't got that vision to help us learn from you and i would be great. >> one keyword that is it was collaboration and i think that the position that we have all taken not everyone on the stage as far as getting the controllers back into the cockpit is something that we endorsed because as you know, we are training rapid members of the controllers out there and for them to get in with a cockpit and work with the training programs at the airline's i know the airlines have been great in the opening of the simulators just to show operations such as the runway change which can be a complex situation for both of the controllers as well as for us in the cockpit working together this great and the avenues, are
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there. >> if i could touch on that, too i am not involved in it but i heard yesterday and i am glad to hear that alpa is working together on a not just us coming into the cockpit but trying to get you to come into the control facilities as well. some of them are more convenient to get to than others, but we would love to have you any time we can get you in the tower and guarantee a cup of coffee any type of day but pulled back the curtain a little bit and not because i need you to understand what it is or what i do but i just think that for all of us to have this partnership, collaborative tight relationship when i got irshad for 23 years ago at the airport and was felt massachusetts, every friday we had a steel gate and it was literally a pickup truck with relegate sitting on a school by the airport operators and we had the fighter wing would come over and local flight schools would
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come over and just sit around and have a beverage, maybe barbequed shrimp or something and talk. it was a great way for everybody to have an understanding of what is that you are trying to accomplish, but i am trying to accomplish and how we can both get to have a good day. >> any time you are having a barbecue. [laughter] let's go ahead and move on our discussion in the subject of the mitigation. airports are required to have a wildlife management plan however we continue to see the dern strikes they were here first but we have seen them take on a new focus since the u.s. air collision which resulted in a water landing on the hudson. what technologies are being brought to address the risk? >> i think that they were already hearing about this so you from we already been well-educated on the radar. that is one of the system that's
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out there and i think there are other manufacturers in proving awareness for the wildlife managers and airports around the country. is that a one-size-fits-all situation or something the would be applicable to all the airports and i think more importantly from the constituency that i represent the airport operators is it necessarily going to be a real time system that's in to be capable of providing real-time advisories in some cases? yes. in other cases may be more periodic to enhance the wildlife management program and airports already have felt to identify the habitats that are of particular concern and things airports may not be aware of or they just not have the data available to them from their periodic surveys the more conventional surveys of wildlife that have gone out to be aware
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of. getting beyond the radar and its potential application for with real-time and in provincial wildlife hazard management programs i think the expansions of the wild life hazard management programs and the need for wild life assessments which are being pursued through 139 world changes will make some difference. i think those are certainly from a cost perspective they are always a concern to our members, but i think that broadening the number of airports that produce the plans and conduct their assessments more notably will help increase awareness and help the focus attention on airport operators that may not have traditionally done those activities on the extent of their wild life programs. i think the focus that came out of -- there was always some good that comes out of accidents and incidents that go on. i think the focus that came out of the miracle on the hudson and the fact that there was a
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positive outcome coupled with the media attention than it brought has helped us over all. all the industry segments i think to pay more diligence and attention to wild life hazards throughout the system. i did want to point to a particular challenge though, something that my constituency and the airport operators really struggle with that is what we deal with beyond the airport within five to ten nautical miles and the airport. i think it is still a wild west situation. we get out into that particular area of its airspace. it's something where our challenges are significant because we are not just -- who has jurisdiction is an incredibly significant question. we've had some positive movement i think in the reauthorization bill that have enabled the airports given the airports and the department of the agriculture and a little bit more authority in areas like a national park lands and specifically in the new york
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case are not kennedy appropriate large avian species, canadian goods and canada goose in particular we need to see more of that and we need to see more authority given to wildlife managers in those areas that are off the airport and appropriately will protections and appropriate expeditious routes to engage in activities like deprivation if it's necessary in the off airport. those are the areas where i think we collectively continue to struggle with management in the habitats and the wildlife themselves be that avian or in the millions. putting out what used to be a forest or orchard is now an airfield and there's an natural
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detractor to have a discussion in the canada or bird strike committee where everybody gets together stakeholders and we collaborate. one of the discussions, and one thing that comes out of that organization i try to make it every year and what we are starting to see now is a tactical shift and we're instance just harassing a bird and using noisemakers and sending someone out with a truck and the vehicle to chase the birds away is to think about why are they actually at the airport to begin with, standing water and shortgrass is a natural bird attractant and one thing we have seen is airports are now taking a look at property of sight, purchasing it, actually developing a pond and putting shortgrass and coupled with harassment the birds if they know they can get a good meal somewhere off the airport they won't come to the airport. if no one is going to harass them off site in the rf planned departure quarters and it's worked and our folks are partners with the - park and the
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military have been investigating this and we are starting to bear fruit and see it happen. and i think it is a great way to mitigate the bird has a rather than constantly go back and chase them away. their offspring will be back the next day and of course you raise the issue of the requirements. capture kill and that sort of thing is a very touchy subject with environmentalists and regulators and understand we'll have to work together to come up with a solution because the hazard is there. ..
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>> trying to make sure the progress is addressed, especially coming out of the hudson incident. >> on the topic of runway excursions them we have seen the numbers increase dramatically overseas and the numbers have stayed steady here in north america. is there a concern on the part of the stakeholders that this uptick may reach our shores? >> there certainly is, steve, from the faa site, we were very concerned with excursions. aspersions have been in the news as of late. for those of you who read some of the publications out there, you are starting to see a lot of articles and interest in a excursions. there've been many deaths and many millions dollars worth of insurance claims paid out over the last 15 years dealing many with runway excursions. and it is a huge, huge source of
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focus for is rather suddenly. we have worked with our international partners. we have developed, adapted the same definition for runway excursion. that is being used worldwide. we in the office of runway safety are beginning to track excursions on a daily basis. the flight safety foundation has been doing something of this nature for a number of years. we are going to expound on that and track excursions and tried to do root cause analysis on those just like we do with the incursions. we have the database. we have the tools. we have the people. would have infrastructure so it was a logical choice for us to pressure excursions as well. there were several companies out there that are developing new technology. some of you pilots that are out there flying for jetblue, alaska airlines or american airlines are already somebody with this, and it is a system that is attached to the atlantic error that records the speed of touchdown, the way to the aircraft at touchdown, and it
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also takes all the data off the flight data recorder, puts all this information together and comes up with a number as to what kind of braking coefficient was available o on the particulr land in. assistant is in use already nationwide, actually worldwide with some of these carriers, and it is a very interesting process that they are working through. we are collaborating, the collaboration, we are collaborate with them to try to get funding to further the studies they are doing. and make something of this. we all know being an airline pilot for air jamaica, maybe a little bit different than somebody flying here for delta out of minneapolis, someone's definition of for breaking maybe completely different from someone else's. and so we need to get toth bottom of this. we do have the syste that are out there. we have all the different meters that are out there. everybody have charts in the
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cockpit you can reference. the problem is it slows down the departure and arrival rate. if we have to send someone out in order to get a reading of the friction coefficient, you are taking the runway out of service for greater time, 15, 20 minutes. when you're out there holding waiting for this reading to be taken, or you're possibly even diverting because we're traffic on the runway trying to take a reading, this new system early makes a lot of sense. if we have every aircraft, and it wouldn't go to every aircraft, but if we have 20, 30 airbus three '20s or 737 salt lake of coming down the pike, and everyone of those aircraft is reporting them every time he touches to it reports a numerical value all goes to a central database, and that information is piped back up to the next aircraft that are in the queue. not only will be a help for the airline pilots but it will be help for the air traffic controllers who now could actually build a hold if they want to come to the equipment out on the runway, plow the
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runway, treated and then it gets aircraft back in line again for arrivals. if we could use that as a planning technology, on the atc side and a technology for the pilots so that there is a steady and a good numerical value that is there, it's a wonderful technology and we're pushing this very, very hard to try to help with the excursions. coupled with this, steve, is my concerns. i came into this office in the summer, and i've got a couple of pet products that we develop here in very short order. one of those is to runway safety area. here in the united states the runway safety area terminology is not as well-developed as it is in some countries overseas, and we don't spend a lot of time talking about the rsa. the rsa is an area just outside of the runway itself that is created and smoothed for potential runway exclusion -- excursion. all of the equipment in the rsa should be built on a structure so it can break off and not
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cause further damage to the aircraft. it's wonderful in design, but our air traffic controllers don't necessarily have all the tools to know exactly where the rsa is, let alone what is allowed into an rsa during intercarrier operations. and i found that we have conflicting guidance here in our faa regulations. not necessary in the regulation for some of the other guidance that has been put out. so eager to go ask a control what is allowed in the rsa during a part 121 operation, you could possibly get three different answers and all three answers would be correct. so we are tackling this. it's a huge thing for us to jump into here. i know i won't make everybody a friend as i go through this process, but what i would like is the definition and let's get this defined. let's let everybody know in the airline community and air traffic world what exactly is allowed in the rsa during part 121 operations and what is not. if they are not allowed to we need to some of the good how to
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cut the grass during other times a day or times of the night. if men and equipment or personnel and equipment are allowed in the rsa, do we have to allow a big fan truck that has all the equivalent on board into the rsa, or could the tech outs person walk out, change a lightbulb without parking than in the rsa? so we have a lot of things we're trying to tackle here with the excursion and incursion definition, and the rsa has become a huge subject in this. so we are tackling it. again, collaboration amongst all the folks on the stage, all branches of the faa. we're all working on this very hard. i would like to bring us to a close relatively quickly. >> and to be fair to the office of airports at the faa, they put out part 139 regulation book is really only, it's a very thin document. basically everything is driven to ac circulars regarding airport condition, and i have to applaud the office of runway safety -- safety and standards
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come and he is 100 that are putting together new circulars as we speak doing things such as moving them outside to the vehicles and transit in and out without having to disturb the rsa which is a safety buffer force. if in case we get into all of the pavement and in the grass or dirt surrounding the airfield. so i appreciate your work on that. chris? >> i was going to add something. i think, you know, regarding definition of the rsa i might take a bit of an issue. i think where we stand in the u.s. relative to other countries, and i just know because i worked cross-border, our membership includes folks up in canada as well as in the u.s. when you look at the runway and safety areas whether the icao terminology for the overrun areas, i think they are, up in canada there's been significant debate over the last two and a half years over how to define those can how to define
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clearance and that's something where in the u.s. we've had well-defined guidance i think on the overruns. we look to the side wings of the rsa's. i think there is pretty clear guidance. i don't see that necessarily as much, as much globally. there's more to be done, especially in the operational side i think getting to standardization, you know, with what types of mine operations, what types of maintenance operations are allowable within the rsas history but others who are building from a very strong foundation with the definitions. and foundations that don't exist necessarily globally. and i think with the premise of the question that you put forward first, steve, are we going to be seeing, will we be seeing importation of excursion to u.s., and north america in general. i'm hopeful not because i think it's really a lot of the rest of the world really needs to catch
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up with us more than vice versa. that's not going to be true in all it. i would say places like safety management systems deployment, that someplace where in the u.s. we are probably playing a little bit more ketchup but when you look at the standards, you know, actual provision of clearance areas, protected surfaces, the u.s. has been in what i see anyway a very, very solid leadership role there. and to mike o'donnell and his staff's credit over at office of airports, as you state. >> most deadly. i looked over towards mont regarding this excursion issue, and i am blessed to be working for an airline that takes the excursion and incursion seriously and make sure i'm prepared to use proper management to avoid that risk. what our airlines that you represent, mont, doing to get a pilot to identify those risks and make it a hazard?
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>> thanks. thanks are asking, steve. for one thing, we just took a survey recently about two weeks ago on what are the top five concerns for our carriers at a4a. and this is certainly, runway incursions and excursions and the general category our runway safety is one of the top five of our 11 participating carriers. so it's very much on the forefront of our radar screen. i like is it keeps me up at night sometimes. it's one of those things that we would be, it would be unacceptable, no carrier could afford an event which could result in an aircraft loss with fatalities involved in a runway event like that. so we worked it pretty aggressively. as a member of the commercial aviation safety team, i'm involved with, currently involved with a runway excursion jointsaetyanalteam and nt safety application team. coec data, analyze all theto
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factors nvolved tatcn generate, particular we're talking of runway excursion so you could have a long blending, you can have tailwinds or crosswinds, ontaminated runway, spoilers, may be insufficient use of breaking, et cetera. the talk about braking coefficient run the, braking action is certainly one of those hurdles we have to overcome and i think as pat has mentioned, there some technologies that seem very promising. but as far as looking at what the work of the tal, aviation rulemaking oittee, i know i shouldn't lk in terms of acronyms here, but i know i'm in a friendly audience that understands many of them. but maybe some of our folks out the in the video world do ot. but that aviation rulemaking committee today very aggressive job of looking at a lot of the factors, and certainly we
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support the 15% margin for landing performance that carriers now require to calculate before landing in near real-time conditions so that the crew has a better appreciation for the handling characteristics of aircraft under those conditions. so much research is taking place. we've got to beat all this back and/or training programs, be re that the arrival briefing, that the captain gives and shares with the first officer, when the crew discusses the factors they can comprehend and receive, that they have techniques to deal with those, and the briefing includes the what-if's, which are frequently, you can't always anticipate, but, you know, a good briefing, kind o pre-rehearsal of procedures will contrte a great deal toward a successfu outcome. we look at of the ones we've had in this country. fortunately, they have not been
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particularly, you know, as ms. gillikin briefed us this more, we're in the safest period of commercial aviation in the untry. so many of those events have not been, have not resulted in fatalities or injuries or substantial damage to the aircraft. a few have. it's noteworthy to say, and i think will talk bout this,t in getting materials arresting systems have saved at least one airaft from going off a precipitous cliff at the end of a ruway. not in the not-too-distant past, so some of those technologies at the high-risk areas. i came fr being a director of safety at hawaiian airlines. we had a number of special airport in hawaii that were very close n proximity to water areas, open ocean areas, whatnot, or very unforgiving. so we rally ne addess those high-risk areas fi give t prominence. so i think the work is goingon.
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i think it's very collaborative. we all have skin in again. we we all need to aggressively look at the low-hanging fruit, what other things we can do ow maybe wi very little cost and then ascost progresses, what is the risk ruction associated it. w cawe get there on a pretty steep climb gradient. >> i was just going to add, dealing with aircraft once he goes off the runway is one thing but the best thing we can do for each other is to never get in that position. and as newer aircraft are coming into the fleets, the new 737s and whatnot, they don't descend. i'm not telling you anything you. they don't like to go down i've never seen something that big but didn't want to go down, but it happens. you are getting are npr rivalrous, so that's putting you and your aircraft in positions that right now you may not be
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and. for example, if ordinarily i would record -- vector you on a downwind, you're in a configation to do this be anything. these two procedures are all designed to be zero power or low power or getting back on the throttle's again. so controllers have this thing, you cannot stand to watch a gap go there needs to be an airplane in there for whater reason. so if you're on a five-mile wide downwind and your 5000 feet above the field and you go three miles past the airport, my attorney to base heading, and you know you can't get down from there. that's the time for the unable. and our asset program, which is fairly ew, teaching us how to report safety concerns, operatin the computer is one thing but to be able to analyze your operation and say, you know, we've done this every day for the last 20 years but it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, right now to report. if there's a few them or one of
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ople, a whole bunch fart peet together dthy n analyze thosd apply all bit of scice adata min and cide wheert is or not a safe practice. so hp us tt you in a position to succeed, and recognize early, i know a lot of pilots are can do, just like controllers are. i can get it out of there. icing pilot, i don't think it's more of a region. how toget them down, i have no eang idepardony lanuage. they do. but leading edges ael gowin [lghtellers -- when i was orin atproach control i love the 727 because it went down it was really good at it. help us help yu with that that's communication. and if you o n airport where they aomatically every time the normal procedure is a slam dunk or it's a turn or its this thing or that thing, we are putting the position that you don't like, let us know now and let us deal with it in this sort of a forum where we can learn and give you wha is ht you
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there's no sense in doing it the you'reo like the sameit, eca airplane you we flying when i started to invest. >> that's a great point, ric, and thanks for backing that up. i start on the 727, the joke was if you can see the runway you will make it. 767, you have to shoot it down. it takes a lot to get the airplane down on the ground. everyone wants to y. the'inin sa though, i have seen asi arline pilot, at my airline i've seen a sea ange in attitudes regarding the ability to just say, go round. i think that's something we need to spread amongst every airline that is represented in this room, that it's okay, my it does ot look good, if ity if looks like you are a too fast or you're landing ong going around and taking a data point from it later sang well, why we in the situation? the control turned us in a
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little bit close, or didn't realize this is happening, or wasn't aware of the situation, or i was fatigued. that gets out there, allows groups like this to come up with safer practices. i applaud the airlines for taking that attitude recently. >> and lt nit steve and i were talking ago around. people avoid ago around at all costs. really, fromur perspective i don't feel that apple. it's hard work when there's a go around when are a lot of of airpnes in a space you'ng tbeoing into, t the nly ones that really er mare th ones i cause. so if my lack of planning project position or remain in a position where veto cinc arnd wre i ured you into tight or didn't get an aircraft off the runway in a timely manner, or i loaded the runway for departure and he was too tight of a spot, those staying. does feel that. that's a moment for professional development. everyone will have those at some point and agree. hopefully they never become one those come to jesus moment. yeah, that's -- they want to go
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around, goldman. go on around. it's better for you to know, you're all professionals. are ll professionals. if you knoiles ago that this is a lousy approach, this is not going to work or on behind the airplane, or these situations where you have a tail wind aloft, but the wind on the ground is not like that. we can see because we are facting and we see that your knots faster in the air or whatever, you know, we get pilot report. the wind is to 70 at 85 at the marker. okay, your wheels on about long. why do we need to know that? we qaeda to but the mentality is you need on kow that. if the wind is blowing you that fast at altitude and you know that the wind change will be fairly close to the ground and you' be having greater grant be than normal, we re not pilot so we don'tunderstand all of that. we understand how long, what are average runner occupancy is, how much we need space at the last
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moment, so if you see that, you know, and your aircraft are showing to the winds now and you see th at10 miles ago, speak up. we want to do mething different. >> there's a way to do that. >> definitely. i doubt if there's any airplane cfos in the room. is not a situation that we take lightly and just wt to romote that it's something we are going to do. but what needs t happen with her at line fives wn he deflected state reports, and let our airlines know the reasons why. because folks here and in this room can get together. maybe it's a training issue. maybe perhaps it's an air traffic issue. maybe there's something we can address to eliminate the risk and hazard but most important to keep our airplanes moving and get her passenger and cargo where they need to be on time. mont, something to say? >> i wholeheartedly support, and
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we talk about this inner city council almost every time we meet, that it's a non-pic o the maneuver. it's a judgment issue. the crew working with good crm and followed sop and understanding that there are many situations where it's right down to the wire. and you can't always predict what is going to happen. saw a investigated two nonfatal ntsb reportable accidents in my short tenure at hawaiian. both of them were in e nway environment. both arguably probably could've avoided, been avoided by a go around. although they were at such critical points in the landing profile that typically pilots would y, hey, we wouldn't typically go around from your, but when you look in the aftermath of the accident, one resulted in considerable amount of damage to a bulkhead on a narrowbody, andid what ended up with a wide body in the water, you have to go back from
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that point an sywhat were all the couny beg factors. and, in fact, wide-body action was classic. it was night, contaminated runways, displaced threshold, poor coordination between them in the case the dispatcher flight following providing the captain and the crew with destination, island destination five and a half hours away from hawaii. so we need you the forensic on something like that, you say there's something here for everybody. there's a take away for everybody. d to gat's what we neeet people to think abouis think abt e what-if's. we want every flight to be captainss ceit an awulhe lot of cision-making, and good preparation for what can be expected at a rival contributes a lot. as ric said, you know, i'm a big believer in broadcasting the message from a mentor of mine
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down in charlotte, a captain who is a ground training instructor for u.s. airways. but he is, of the genre through the '70s and on into the latest aircraft, the fleet. what they have set up, what u.s. airways, they'll bring people over, the new controls, new grants of all clumsy the come to the tower in charlotte. they will bring tm over for ouof grad school and then an hour in the simulator basically showing them, talk about aircraft performance issues, showing them what the effects of the late runway change could become a low-level wind shear, lots of separation. it's a marvelous program as long as we have the seaglider time available time available to do it voluntarily. united states and the same thing out at denver. those are the kinds of programs that i han spread that knowledge base and help eope. in the common goo sharinge knowledge and building our exrtise, i think that's th
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way to go. >> definitely. >> we talked about the runway safety areas and we touched upon the tansfer our come it's going come gether pretty good here. the runway safety area is a defined surface area around the runway in case of an overrun or an undershoot. to prevent against damaging event to the aircraft or injuring passengers. and cargo. what's being done to provide increased margin of safety at those airports without adequate runway safety areas, chri? >> i think something, many people are aware of and has been mentioned on this panel implication of the arresting system. we have one bigger -- one vendor that provides that. i know through th script that you mentioned,here's been investigation analternive techno, thlogies cadinavian
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group, steve is producing, you know, glass pebbles essentially, recycled glass pebbles that might provide similar type capabilities. and those systems have been extraordinarily and dramatically effective, whether it is charleston, west virginia, which is mentioned. i think that's where you were going. key west i think more recently with spectacular video of the actual save. and the systems are being deployed around the country. inther casesoe e case airports ar looking at reducing some of the use of the runway like. maybe not something that is particularly popular. you always have -- like i the runway in front of you. to ensure that full e ca be provid oae safetyas c b povided. i think what we have dealt with, and this has been a great focus
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of the faa over the lst, eight nine years we've reath ruay safety area focus, the focus on overrun prevention really being a uge for i the fi of airports, for airport operators and their compliant. we are looking forward to wrapping that opefuly 2015. e deadlinewe haveit probably some of the more complex projects is 10 a little bit beyond that, but i think once we get to that point where we itress the safety area problem, the runway in safety area problem, attention needs to hope to shift to some of the other areas where we're looking at excursion, sideline excursions. how do we address some of the hazards that exist to the sidelines at some of these airports that may not have been hinat's probably the next stephere we need to be goi how dowe look towa somof the prentive tchlogies,
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whether that's onboard aircraft that started in mentioned, and i would add to patrick, your discussion w do we expand the distribution of that information back not just to the towers but to the airport operators who need to be called on to address that lots of friction. i'm thinking to believe in the scenario here. or maybe throughpy wh th dinager loerrainage . rainho we iovat ror imprementsr deg with that mht telce and in a quen coming on winter condition reporting. how do we bring a t,te ta and laing perfor ll makicommiee lusion wih soctual gucetal of te etit the pilots or airport opeto ir traic controllers is sohow ardiributing that inrmation. and how we are making with the airport experiences, what an airporperate onte eld dod coitg elreporting
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experiences, something that's actiable on the pilot, and prmething that isacay of the pilot exednd i hnk tha's bensignict co all around. as we look at measurement using vehicles that are nt arcraft to report new values, the fricon values out on runways. i think we need to move to the aircraft faith systems. i'm optimistic about the. i'm optimistic, i think guardedly optimistic about some rport technologiesat the subcommittee, and with the airport technologies group up in atlantic city to evaluate how we get better friction measurement. but those are the type of things i think we need to focus on. once we get beyond ensuring the overrureas a protcted, really the wayrunand safety eas ar protcted. >> we heard the questi earli abouthey nw readings an
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that and how the united states is starting to work its way away from the readings and going morn report. and as we all know, an 18 wheel truck sto diferently tn vw beetle. aircraft. thi w two different reports base on geographic location, where the pilot is based can bei h or miss. use a garlic optimistic but i agree with you. working on the same panel, coming up with an actual friction value to something that's more people down at the center will workn with a baseline number thatcome we could maybe start transmitting these numbers directly so the controls and issue the proper guidance. i think it'sdniely a good thing wored another thing you touched upon, chris, and i wanted to ex on it, we talked about the runway safety area and it goes past the runway. the office of airports and sea ofars went out and say that right upo th airport fence is
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where the reons gulati for the airport and it'srustrating for airport i'msure when here's a proposed structure to be built, maybe about a miletwo s offtendof depheavrtu corridors. nourrehe i no regulation right now that holds some developers to standards to stay under the safeavgae , whenll engines are operinon the aircraft. anin the case of say, an engine failure can we start to run into obstae su wthat e being lipl i know it's been very frustrating for airport plans but i know chris, your background is airport plenty. been involved with something else on this discussion. what's your take on that, and what we do maybe collaratively as a grouposi down and ce up witha solution besides regulations, but how can we influence that? >> well, i'm not adverse to, as
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much as i don't know if at sound like that here today, but not averse t all regulation. and i thinkwith respe to the control of tall objects of airport property, just ike wh the agg issue, e irpobend the fence, we work uil of vessues with who has responsty.li and ho is got the authority to control. that's a really does not make a hazard determination. we are looking forward to the point where we ca gt those hazard determination is to be made reliably when there's violation of one engine inoperative,done engine operate service. we havbeen working i think faa airports, the airlines have been working the issue for the last, actually preceding when i ride at aci, for the last five, five and after. seems like we're getting to the point of conclusion there were we might have definitions of the servic that as illing to
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provide hazard determinations, one, provide specifications about how airports can depict the services. rigowthere i't tha guides. soe into ise of what an ensure of that rticar vepersuildg my vlage for, ehaggard -- hazard determination has come out so they injured goes that an insurance thedg b we are all happy and go forrd with a hazard determinatis hopefully that wilhappen as ch. bu evenith hat ge n guance iit takes us as airports working together with the pilot and airline counies, wiheth t faa, and i would say maybe do a little bit lesser extent to the controls rectly, dfine a difficult situations can be as you are trying to work within very, very narrowly defined corridors with an aircraft expense a proem,
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one engine inoperative situation, to go t the insurers, to go tohecouy commissions, to go to the zoning boards that exist, to convey the magnitude of the problem and work with them. because they really are, we talk about the insurers and the folks that deal with the zoning, those are the folks who really have the direct authority to control these types of strucres. and mitigate damages for their build, mitigate and ensure you are not allowing three, four stories to go up in the midst of an oed i service. we're in the process right now at aci of working on best practices guides for exactly that situation. we are waiting for faa to issue definitive guidance on wei bu thi w lot of evelopment on the front over the next two to three ars. thinkalreadyhrd mentd, tre's been some
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discsi which arejst on ample e oei rvicesca be peetdnd actns we ee to tke notly. rest airorts wht eaching mucipaesrehat itexrsionsan discsed,e toucdpon a couplearc, when an airport comes out and had a very dayu n tort check? because how dha airport level, wor its way through the controller? let'do the telhone cinnd geis to the pilot tose knowledg. >> start with maybe th more official eanisms, lookingat the -- som folks go north of the .border 's realrough the chanism that the oial ne zakim gare open. ithink, you know, that's in the heat of the moment.
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i think the oree s are those that are for the work, among theommunities on eir winter operations plans in that season. think ostof a larg at,r ma of the serrtdo you workhr som ations meetings. were really sttingow that summer to bgin that line of counication so that outse of e ficial le of communication you have th more inrmal unofficial es so tht at is cent or the no tffic, for nstnce, at the table. to some tentht eend ssrom stat managed as well although i thin that has generally bre eenmofa oa i, an aprss make yr ro are ceed. i thinthe challen, something we've already talked about is thatunirm reporting in the something that gets beyond more subjective repoin has been a difficult concept to convey
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diffict issueso standardiz among all the airpts. i mean, at o of the holy ail's tal arc s sough tobtin, tomo outer th but that illnot iea, thateoben compled and hopel that rougthis effort we finaapy i ,inaly vada t all talkabout e conrg tr hat tacs hasome correlation between thpilot experience and what the field meurements are. , inll ome tha t todvance ofly on more than ju nmns. they areht bete clo coordition duing osevesissing mes ck from the pilot, rely will we be talking directo thps wn ttairporeionsk
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staff, and ve versa. so thait isn't l ap understandg what those are tre's ying closer nd ofeal-time cordin th conditionsre deteg.riorat i think aut keyof this i isthe air traffictrol your airhrt an cockpitween gorough your traffic c,nycomments? >> it goes in t directions because the airport operat relies on your reports on what's going on at the airport whic takes me to e my favoite winter messages. good fair poor or nail? , rnot relly, really, relypo. i can't patp. a lo g tdotha we ker osure anyody so we need to know what it is nd something that is usble. one of the good things about
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working at dfw is 13,000 feet of runway, they're only gettin ow or ice once every other year. so havinme own there frm connecticut and massausts we just ne tting change. yea e o,irpts g uhe report and we pass it on to you, and hopefully, hopefully it is clearnd makes sense to everybody. >> one thing that i would throw out there, and it's a concept that i think is incredibly valuable, already mentioned, familiarization. i will throw it under that broad term. and i think the are opportunities th we are t fullytaking advantage o the airport side to get some of pilots out onto the field but i think somebody mentioned, you mentioned going out to te a look at heareas but it goes beyond that to realy perience w it'sli to do some of that field reporting to undetand what the aprt operators are eing and
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feeling. and i think just about the pilots understnd how im is han what you are experienng, to really understa some of those recordings and be repared. >> wat alpa we ly to ovr 170 rt 139 irpos. some are much sa the u. andanad and we have strong volunteer force of pilots summer industry. some are at home. we are off-line right now but a number of volunteers they go and meet with the rports as you well know. i advertise that ou're there just with a safety gin and they try to get out and visually see wh's happening a report back as the columbia airport the same issues as biarck, north dakota. so it's a good program and i appreciate a short plug on the. we will go ahead and start with our finasubject. that something is just like hiways. you have to season. you have winter and construction on theighways. sameith airports.
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when the weather gs nice and airport -- north we start is a numbernstr proct andthey take sometimes years tocompe. a lot of money is flowing from the government to make mar infrastructure changes, and we support that. w nways, resurfacin ec andiw we have very impwe str to thetraffexpode he. we're going to see numbers climbing in enxt twodecad that frankly it's goig to take a lot of infrastructure changes. oup of peerwith constron, a four-hr subject r you.uld be >>t it's got to tough. ell, i mean, finding a mechanism to communicate that, especially to those in the pil community thatay not be frequently flying into hat
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facility is a huge challenge. i think, you know at the same time from the airport fnt managing a safe construction or maintenance site is a sinicant challen and i think faa would point to this. we've had a number of incidts. ere was one well-blicized incursion incide up in oston thatas proa whole number of changes. i'm not just talking about -- the way they do fundamentally manage safety during construction. their reliance on specific exports on those, that's their only job and their continued aware of how they need to move through movement areas, you know, is a practice they have adopted. thre different chalenges, but both have mpacnhe safeeness isues. and what a pctwy todo athatre don know tat ie
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l hose ansgoalrs.cially on how e communat how we ind, i knw wenotgi t focs a lot now 's gnge toyshe th on theostructio sites sog, it'cotive challenge. >> you said boston. i might fly there once every couple of years, so i thinkthe w doou educate ailot. in my airlne iil probably get numberwrong, but ortsab 200ome, 300,400 round we. , t atruction pje p upailine due to fight?e the pilotrir to want ump in ter on a of thn one is vead sexperienceov the stoupleo yarht s.e sted nferenenou get all t ents in ey nanmsach.neeue lmt
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d to lk at th prosproject,and h a thetentl hotspots, or hazard ths. en how do we risk asess those. w de mitigeho and en d we ontinuouslynir so i'm inkin ths le wuoutthelunway cstructionat j. thad out largecnstroon vehicles genrating events.el ruay ing, l yourullaralcept o beta raon forcnucti proj may be la at night when there isa lot of tffic or her you can do that so te ot lauerdale, t tuly aelated eh devepment of u apprch e sott the tiperasom o he to all tids ofngs i ink by getng all the
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eholders into th plnni s in thetructi confenande tegy oard wer the her, i read anaert, rerad aually thotheght in atioarfo the cnference, that have to do with hi la wher they shortened the runways during construction and resulted in somephraeology that to crui belieat they coultakea runway and a it tneot inst ofble. 11,200 feet, the full-length was 6700 ft, or something of that nature. so we have learned, sadlwee learneter the fact, but we have agressively ought that into the fold and s y, arthinthosreally need hiab. and we need to brost informn t to te cruiseas s wesoon aan put together a package, like a 10 nation seven message that says here's what's go ftauderdale, pl for tinds of
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occurrences. i've bn atbosonfor the meetings during the construction ta xiway.i bet n franciscoand l.a.d seeing the big axeey put up, the lighted exits at night, an alternte taxi procedures. as chris taldabout e add any number of events that were triggere byeo pple who are largy panned until it was the airport. texi route, ityan confusing. so it is speciay sensiti the people who aren't routinely flying in d otof there to get a taxi clearance is very abrm, then i think nts alluded to, if the comroer y, it yivd s progreive. just to make sure youe ear of the construction at the if it's not too busy and it doesn't result congestion, all os sell.
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whawee to nura i thnk. >>haa eat pont, greadecaing. i i apia the plug. cil,ong togee offredbers in d appethe invi dth andembe on boa happtoe rt tnd wee togeth o pcte. to close ut, riac, than l thse vehclesd peopmoving nd on axiways d rvicroa? >> the initi reacti k in the ctrowerhen there's construcon is e conc but weffncy. they're g to slow ow i cat do thisr can't d that. sinc ccagoppened, a l miesternairrt-
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>> that wastdifficto figu o >> wve ha been more proactive ining go conruction thes perator ined gini de manne of what xct. anctual a afo at. thste irones,peopleort of thht thi wacrazy. i will just worarou t, ad you ave,you kw faciit with 500 ersi t nl dity activ aro the couction thbo's not h g e teefit of seeing that conion ruerdafo however ny yearst it is, and it pretty ey tst two lewa youp hvobapreciiv ofhathe pit id a hin i blvea plathat itepblind for tt the air caier pilts ho fienalty that area,ou will learn,you' t
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kind of wh going o and wel find away togt ar cotron a. so it's mont y all are gi in th anay. cause i may have gret e r traffilttmakes e.sens usuall hat mnits easy. itakery fewords and it's fast. so tt's hat i akior. t if i nolv some yndou ircraf i deal i we need to kwtht mae sureth'tyo ugd isth as well so ts the i thk that one of things ulday ry toea aaud my employerthe faa dig a the lasts yearsthis w aboratto it ebe a buzzrdtda and l of her, butt ally is imrtan to regnizef oy, e invite rline a or b.tomet ou meg, wre kely tgoing to get an xveryenever, ere' ngthpersonecau atnot ly
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they face wh difrent strategicvew. whatever there worth about i not hat mworied aut. yoo u alsae toi pots ed in its the same thing withirtfic. ntrodto hae oll magement.ls itill take bes i can't make o cin work. ot mole. u ha to geyot the ke ecisnn prhrase i use i t's one thg to make decisionnd dosomething,ut ve t t xpain eatabl re youo . it h a ras, a i thwee g thr >>o sum up exatly i th 's colbotis key. nk evryso pn on tis now m a callgo ack toward our han,oo een a edo , lloratn and woing tother with be that sa, i'mgoing t and open it up to qutis d ans. if aon wouldlk toap
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the crophoplease o me let menow you ar and whicni wt. feel r t o uti nl nrh ri airly eledne group ch tohed ad bak my qustn has to d lpa. inpeuas as mewhh tha irc, t f toic aproachdr t w u,heicr e whe macture, air pilot ganizaon itas,th wd and there wa cpros da eat resultout oft e other pt wai mentiong about theraking inac the ill through
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thicao fctntasfo th baki about ter we wantokee all anot brakingctio a ry nil.sueeven tr aingisectanl ish utside huni aes e caeyh nasve tong being rond it all sn' ec ficon the shoulde anaughabt han urto getsomeetnghich ing.gation so my etion s,oconc talparwit o maing?any or ayind of fing as a resuof he codati und t tal
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arc? >> iouthat'sy lethypprecie the commtee. bagroundar i'm norsue tha i coulspea to tt extly myffe in run sfet wbasicaour coor, and suggeson mkers. we are not rulmakers. i would a to take ti to a higherean i re anwlingto do tt. maybe weould spe at the break and i cod geyour otolonn. at ' a ronllemakg, >> i an add tthat have been orkingwit the ficef airport safeand it'stlf rig now aons. a, an eywould collive oes 're trying t rnt jes theicuss faa, and aou it eingssedth organizations. so thank you for teqestion. >> hi,ood fteno.
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wih fr ank u, ste, f bringing he ssue.g fro new yor and bing part of th aation communit the n york meopolitan area, icouldn't help but me upere lk aiteb abt bd stri. - inadible] ab yearsago loposed thecnctsruofthe trnsfer station whi is a micip sod waste tranticurrr contruio guardia rway's y protons n 100oo tall aityll press abot400ns ci acording ae i it fr t ao builddhen it at al. am up wwaconusion that there on could consisteith airpt opions, is itated.
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the city few yor as rse citylsoe rne that see eyncant geawit bu thesetrsfer ionsst the aport protected trsfer s wiationsth laguardia sitting justisses a couple of esons in my mind that i would liketo nel toconsider. thfirst on is, what can be done so that farn the rules and regulations and guidance of o airport property? and how can we a quart faa to take a more affirmative role in these types of issues? >> i'm sorry, we're running t on time. that could be aongdscussi. asounow we've beenactively involved with the marine transfer facility ctruction. senio a a lt of the same meeting, and as you ll know submitt in our public ande
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do, commenoposition tconstruction of that arrangement for facility built at laguardia. as you do wel know, it is being litigated accordingly and we are monitoring its progress, but your points are well taken and i do appreciat. e rungshort on time. i would be happy to speak with you afterwards and we can get together and work with folks on the panel but we are running short. thanyou very much. >> with that being said i would like to brig up captain ch hogeman fr just a brief presentation but and i like tot. thank you very much for your time. appreciate it. please join me in a round of applause. [applause] >> thank you, steve, thanks to the pandas. very, very interesting ussion. alot of interest mitchl. one of the great things we get too at each year at the safety form is to recognize the unsung heroes he worked behindthe scenes for the pil a profession every day. those include alpa's airport safety liaisons, or asl's.
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ms at the association's eyes, ears and voices at major airports around the coury they work with airport managers, firefighters, controlled, others to make airport operation safer amateur pilots concerns are heard. here to present alpa's 2011 airport safety liaison award is captain sean cassidy, head of alpa is safety organization. caain ss [applause] >> almost to the break. one my absolute favorite things to do as nationa safety coordinator is recogniing the accomplishments of the vultures over staff and others.
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firefighting staff and over the he has in part to the body of knowledge on the press used of the firefighters on property to explain them from the pilot's perspective with the nuances are approaching different types of aircraft and how they can best
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mitigate the threat and deal with the rescue effort. so, congratulations. [applause] i'm going to ask you to stand fast for one second. we have to more recipients. the next one is drawn from delta air lines. i'm sorry come also from wisconsin. that's what happens when i got rid of the tunnel prompter. he just coincidentally is also one of our pilots from air wisconsin, and his work is particularly near and dear to my heart because he is the liaison just across the river over to the international airport. john in particular last year was aware of the situation with the incomi huricane ould,nd wasvery concerned and actually alerted the sfety bodies
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because of the going construc ohe reg mnt that theemi service for the main runway had three different typeof surface on which to beat three different types of action and obviously breaking performance which we've just been talking about quite a bit lately for the arriving aircraft and i think most of you probably have flown reagan international and you know the challenge of getting in and out othe airport so john and just did a remarkable job of setting off the alert making sure we had the notice out to the pilots and the mitigating that risk. he's also heavily involved in airport signing activity and is instrumental in addressing the safety issues that were inved ni jb,h lot was swaps as a very [appe] hee today from airtrenhebeto
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is in very short order as one of our new air safety liaisons' did an absolutely remarkable job of building the relationship with the staff with the facility managers would have to billy mitchell airport in milwaukee will to give him the award astelin person he had like to recognize him as well. [applause] now without further ado i think we going to do what we used to call in the navy the gripping and grim ceremony, and so if you want to do this now. en john? >> over here.
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>> if we could have one more round of applause for the fellows appear. [applause] if thre'th wonsin folks that wa too a tal ad certainly your welcome to when we go on the break. one more point of personal privilege to drive my staff auseecagain 'm in off the script but the video that you saw at the beginning of the event speaking of the unsung heroes i would like to welcome to the creek recognize the unsung heroes primarily from the communications support the engineering safety from our i.t. department and they did they did that and tire production in house and when you look at the level of polish and refinement in the way that gets the message out to this group and to the
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public i'm just absolutely throw the impressed that the work they did. they never get recognized enough for their accomplishments and their experience and their achievements, so i would like to just close out the forehand before recognizing the imperious thank you. [applause] thank you. it's 3:00 and time for another break. we going to be outor0 thvisit our exhibitors. thanks to the predictive technologies and our other sponsors for their support of this year's forum. our next session starts at 3:30. see you then.
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[inaudible conversations] and the airline pilots association taking a brek. they are holdinthis forum today on aisafty fal sessionwll be rline pilots biggest health issues. participants include the federal air surgeon and aeromedical that pfizer's. airline pilots association is the largest pilots' union and represents the airline pilots in the u.s. and canada will.
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>>t's called the books that shapedmeric booere secled by t liarfor their ifluen a anameric amenculture. here's briefnterview abo n nlinecha authca in ou be included.u
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>> some of the other words coidedikehae era beuse tnk th boatks slowly have animpact on americaniety so manyboks ha had pround influence on americ cu and ocie, an ined the ese ofhataric is ben fralin'ook on is rkind of spar and shaped the american revolution. novels are a critipaf o are he asonr. we had naiothe toldut expensaw lsthought tt wasyve importt to loonnction and osither were self-he ord f bke barrrsfctainds ma boo tt are no thatinn sho erica as aninovativunry
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that uboed oks an torieto atspirgointo t froier ld b le r inhe nct ent >>f you wod leo participate an oline the it library in the library engrs,ne that wil el safety. since i oderati i'migog toteasas being your host and be y mderator fors next panene roo now ht tobse successful as ofesaviave learn and always of rules d procedures. the incredilea sety record we now enjoyourindustry ieo small y stanrds to raing operations, airplane
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nufaerto ce ort and the list goes on. of course those rules are not static or constant. the change as our industry changes and evolves. we learned from experience. sometimes experience can be costly, painful or tragic and we must ensure that sastre is lessons of the past are not repeated. here's the statistics. in 1945 the u.s. civil aviation regutions contained a mere 20,000 pag of rules that cover training polis and operating aircraft. 70 years later we recognizemany of those early cceptsare now dy'ss and 121 as well as other regulations. we also notice that we fuel lot ctholds in those 70 yers i amond that the evolution of the rules in cada
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nternational community have been abouth same. most o the tme the cages are slow and deliberate and withon n s bhad.s is hard. we need to be sure that we know exactly what we are changg, why, and identify unintended consequences before we just arbitrarilychange ethg.som it's suppose beonsive when we find a hole in our safety net we need to people to patch it in a urry. sohow do we strike the rigt balance between keepig th ctr hile kg the latory povision pcess nimble at the same time? maki a set of rules requires collaboration. as an indus we have learned thatif we ad all stakeholders in the process of developing the rules, wet aette product. the collabortion lets us find out earinly th pocess what trade-offs cane made to balance the competi interts th stilgee desired
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outces even without a buddy of the table, the process can get very complicated very fast to it now let' tk abo ost. in 1997the white house commission on aviaon safe and security bter known as the gore commission concluded that while cost benefit analysis is a great tool to help inrulemaking s safety improvement costs should noteused as thenl oy criteri publityhancemt s can be dficult to measure so bei expense should not autolly maticasqualify the proposal from consideration. our operating rs long way tohiing a sigle high level o safety throughout the world. however, weaspits now the e ples hat we fly to the don't necessarily conform to the same standardse e used to. as a result, many of us ints room he evoted a tremendous to the ta of internationalrs
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harmonization of the safety e ha ae.s, and aot rores one hi is for sure. the regutory and the international standar ame this if the agenda for those of us doing our safety work. today, with usod couny whare going tovusthir ieso from tnternationalv aation estais a ele fe fhie alstriv like all the other panelists this week, we ill ge a ivf introduction. u n find re comprehensive biographies of all of our speakers in your program booklet. leading off the day we hve peggy deal with anssociate administrator for aviation and then m.marn lley trspcana they will share with us their top prrities in the states and canada. we will he t airline perspective on north american gulatory landscape from mr. tom hendrix currently, idened s the se vice pr of safety and
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operation at airlines for america. then we will get a global perspective on ai safety an fm. mrmitell fox the chief the fligh operations for ca ano shaun cassidy wl offer hi oughts on tndusr may the pilots in ocit and regulatory process. so' i'd ke tt ofo star with yu d hearf yh setyriti you are purn today's regulatoryenviron. >> thank y and thankto alpa for asking me to be a part of the panel. i am looki forward to the discussion that we will be able to get intoecause i think when we see the interaction, and when we understand better wat questions we ha we can make the panel a ttle intestg. bui hinkit' import al to noe hwthis pane links to to ofthe conrence. so, an is talking ou one level f safety coming and because we are trying to
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accomplish that i think it has become clear to all ofs that evhing matters. i think it is a fabulous team for thiyear's conference cause we have gotten to the point where every small thing is something we need to know and understand so that we can better manage their risks within the industry. so lete talk a little bit out se priorities. fighting and i hope all of you know that the number one prrity for the a ist ork geth withl ofour industry partners. and when say industry, i really do man verybody involved. i was actually at one ofse conferences and used that term quite a bit after the panel somebody came to me and said you never mentioned the labor. our is a pt ofty from where i industryfe mabey recently pectd management at a different es on some issues but that's not the case on safety issues for pfft as we set our city priorities and working ther o of our k priorities is to focus on
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voluntary programs because we've already seen how much benefit those can give us. i know my of you are familiar with the commercial aviation safety team. several of us on this panel serve on that tm alpa has ben a team player from its inception. you have been ry well represented, and now as we have also creth ated iation safety adstration sy system, al has beea key player in that initiative as well, and it is becse we understand the rspective that impleader brgs to those discussions that the voluntary programs have gotten stronger over time. so those will continue to be one of our key initiatives through the safety saring program, the information sharing program. we've put togethr data fro almost all of thallian covering the otions in the u. for the individual program
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such as asap and a lot of information system satterfield legacy much fuller picture of the kind of risks that remain in the system so that we can identify enhancements that can address those. those programs along with aqp will be focus areas as we work with the industry to continue to strive towards one level of safety and again these are three programs that show how everything matters. so on the aqp program we are collecting data and analyzing the effectiveness of training and we are able to better understand where and how to make improvements to the tining ogram as tinue to strive towards a single level f safety. today 75% of the 121 carriers are using or have begun to troduce the programs coming and wethnk that is a vry important step forward to raising the level of training that wsee throughout the
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system. and again, weareciate the p that ctinuonhans like both the piots training a imptantlyhe us improve safety a regulatory priority is a little more complicated.i think, throgrthsional action, both in the summer of 2010, and morerecently in the reauthorizatn bill, we have gotten a emendous number of corrective directions on the regulatory initiatives, and we have a number of those under way. under the of orinal safety bill of course we have already completed the work on the fght d and rest will come in and we are contig to puh forward on a number of the other initiatives that i've called out in that particular leslation he touched on it in some of his opening remarks. so i will talk a little bit about cost-benefit and the analysisnd l me hight a
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couple of the key priorities that we are really working hard on the fit ishe requi in place the safety management systems in part 21 carriers. fighting all of us are familiar with and understand sort of intellectually, nto te system is tgoing to mve the safety bar that much higher but it's complicated to fgure out how to implement one of those knd of programs and more importantly, how to descre in rules with the elements of the program need to be and how to go about dong it. the m as oi to th rulemaks you try to describe or articulate exactly what the regulation requires it sets parameters. is it what is required and for some that means whateversai thereisn't required or an effective i try to do something more may be i will in that country with the rule wanted.
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what you're trying to do through r progms aany ofour int for part fthe pilo programs we are trying to see in action will visit a s management system nes to encompass so whene set th language and our re to we have an unintended consequence of leavin something out or being overly broad or to narrow so we are learning a lot from the pilot programs and we are a ttle bit behind on the schedule the condra set forth for that final rule but i can assure you that the sms rule was one of our top priority is not because the congrs directt atknow and yo know ct management systems are the futu f aviation safety. let me touch on a cost-benefit issue. it's true that we are required by botatutead by presidential eecutive order to nsiderhe cosbents to society as an dastha we set. it thation. it's a requirement for all of the rulemaking deviations. and we are not required to sh
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th th costs are less than the benefits. we required tosowt the costs are justified in relation to the benefits thathe pu will eceive. the dilemma that we ace aviation is becae we have made it so safe we are not very often now faced with solving thept ile whersomemes it i sy hw that failure cost society a huge numb of dollars. what we are tito do, and sms and all ofthe voltary progms will help us wh we are trying o do is identifythe risk before it manifests itself and tici hat the benefite. would be if we can prevent it. and the dilemma is that approach isn't consistent with the way the process for rule making is written and so we are really struggling with being able to demonstrate that even though that bad thing hasn't happened yet, if it were to happen, it would likely cause this ki of
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cost, and inveing in preventing that cost is wor it to society. we are having very pointed and diffulnvatwithin the administration quite often on these kinds of concepts and issues but i do think we will be successful in many of the areas and continue to move the ctr because we can demonstrate the cost is justified y the benefit that we might see. let me talk for a minute of flight and duty in that context. i know many of your travel by thy that -- by the fact we had to draw some lines in finalizing thaule and atthis point the rule does not includ pilot fly cgo operation. what t administration, but i think at the en, wehad pretty involved in the discussions came to conclusion that we could in fact properly justify the
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investnt wld nto be mae to effect the passenger carrying flights. you will hear the adminirator leader in your conference but i can assure youe he seetary continue to work quite hard at raising the issue with thopers tosir informedth rules reset for passenger carrying opetions and to consider from the principlesf thlook at their own schedules wee. an important point that made it to that colusion was that we do have a requirement in the statute that sex operators that they must have the flight fatigue risk management plans so we are working with operators to make sure they are looking at the scientific principlesht underlie psenger carrying the world to make sure that as they do their fatigue risk nagent plans that they're looking at the same concepts.
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let me just touch on a permnent nextgen also a key priority in accomplishing the level of safety. i see what we see within the faa is the nextgen system causes the aircraft to become really the center of the system which my friends and air traffic i hope i am not offending them we always thought that was the center of the system. i woulike to regularly remind them they have nothing to control if we didn't let them to the system, sitis important that we understand the kind of technology that the aircraft is able to take with it wherever it goes and that means it is taking its safety infrastrture with it when a ghost parts of the world will never have the infrastructure that canada and i and the u.s. are able to provide for example oreurope so operations in africa, latin americforwhat asia and to havehesame level of safety that wan experience in the more developed markets because the aircraft can bring a
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number of the safety systems with it and reduce that risk so that i another one of our key initiatives. but in closing i think what is important for all the laws to keep in mind is we can't accomplish any of this if we are not always working together. if we are not always understandg what are the risks that are still in the system and identify ways that we can mitigate those risks voluntarily hopefully and if necessary by regulation. so i lk tohe conversation with you and h rest of thepanel. thanyou. >> thank you. let's turn now to canada. and here from transport canada on with their prayer these are the regulatory environment. martin? >> thank you, chuck. i was here three years ago so i want to update on wherewe are and the opportunity to come an express, sharsome of the canadian experience and the perspective i would like to acknowledge t of wt you do
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rentals canadian members, so it is very much an international organization everything matters and i fuy supporth tt. i was looinin the context here in the security this morning and i think the conc in lusion own mind is in the risk-based world, you know, you make a conscious decision not to do some of the things at the wer enof the risk spectrum you're dealing with themnot adesis fos nstotemo i don't h thath two things are impossible to reconcile but sometimes you have to make a decision you can't do itll so i would just offths an attraction between the two. just a little bit of background from our accident rate continues to -- the absolute accident, the number of accidents ctinues to drop despite the increasei traffic the re continues to drop,a s ith north america the whole u.s. particularly we have a strong record that doesn't mean we can sit back.
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e challenge as peggy says to get to some of the things which are hard to justify doesn't mean we should do it. it's very clear the association have a strong le to play. we talk about the collaboration. the regulator can't do it all sitting back and watching the regulation doesn't mean very ch. it was taken out of context and engaging them, having them engage members, and one of the things i often get in discussion about is the association's role a lot of them the rule was to lobby government for the same time it's also to make sure the membership understands the need of the government and that direction. so, the association to take on the responsibility understanding our approach helping to educate the members is equally important in my view. it's no question that there's an organization alpa is very strategic and i think that plays a huge leap into the safety record. they tend to be issues based. we don't always get that strategic perspective, so it's
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very valuable when we do see it. in terms of oving forward no question continuous improvement. the word that hasn't come of s ng tt th ow wental is quality i the faa the of the mur, quality assurance. a lot of the operations that have that mfoard we s ofhe qlityrance regulations il so it's hard to introduce a continuous improvement philosophy wn people are not used to using the quality assurance, so finding ways to build that and is a key piece of the puzzle. what we have done is undergone a t ofe and want to talk a little bit about that. internally we country major reorganization. we realize that we were going to be successful in an sms or systems baed aproach. we also needtodeal with companies at an enterprise level so we completely reorganized our rulemakings of that was done in one place, so it wasn't focused
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on the particular disciplines. but also at the delivery level, making sure we can deal with a company if you have a sms is the whole company. not in operating on the flight for the maintenance side. those things need to come together so we felt the need to completely rebuild the organization. that is always anopportunity in the sense of trying to correct some of the things may be in the past you haven't gotten right and it is a huge challenge but in terms of defining the work, keeping the word going in the process but also making sure we look after people and treat them fairly we do believe we need a of pross and are expecting that work to be finished by the end of this fiscal year which is the end of march. it has taken a long time but that it is we didn't move the boxes around. we have completely restructured it. within that, again, a lot of managing risk is a part of the business and we have to factor that into internally as we dealing wh the external risk to do our own work. from the external point of view
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we continued on the road of sms. we have come a long way which also means we have learned a great deal a clearly smsis what we expect the industry t do where a lot of the work is looking at our own surveillance program to make sure that our role in the respective sms is clear how we operate as a regulator. more recently, the recent initiatives to actually look at the enforcement side of what we do and how do you deal with that in systems based approach, so we are trying very hard tobng ese things together and we of closure and looking for some stability in the organization of the program. we did put a hold in 2009 on sms areas and we got a lot feedback. the industry wasn't necessarily rey meet our employeesare not necessarily at the point where they were comfortable. >> an earlier discussion from the airline pilots association
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safety summit to a back now to live coverage on the panel on somef the top health concerns of ilots. as air line pilots we do it. the essay in excess undergo medical examinations on a relar basis. and while many medical issues don't have much affect on a person's ability to be productive in the workplace, for an airline pilot, the same conditions can end their career. we operate in the extreme violent wihih altitudes, cosmic radiation, andever changing. we fly eighth day and night and have lied during his impact. don't forget stress. stress for flight to operations, family concerns or even the economic fortunes of the particular airline. it can all add up to a major impact on the pilots health and well-being. we will now hear from a very distinguished for aviation and medical the experts about the most pressing medical issues facing today's pilots.
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moderating this panel is captain chip who is alpa's medical air. thanks, john. [applause] good afternoon lies and gemen. and the air line pilots association chairman of th national air medical group. the radical group mix of one of the five omnf apa's pilot assistance structure. in the aeromedical group, we take a ultifaceted approach to helping members maintain good health with information and individual interactions. our group works with the medical industry and federal regulators to ensure the latest information and standards not only get to the pilot that they receive the information but it's also applied to tir medical certificate. now on to our panel.
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i'm very honored to have such distinguished guests today. dr. snyder is alpa's medical but pfizer and dr. fred is the fda federal air surgeon. following the presentation, there will be ample time for questions. and i would encourage you to engage with dr. tilton and dr. snyder. we often refer to it as amas. alpa and amas have a critical ongoing relationship that started in the late 60's. every airline pilot must pass a regular medical examination to determine his general health and fitness for duty. assistance is invaluable not only in helping pilots maintain their medicalrt, but
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in helping pilots game and their medical certificate with the least amount of hassle and a reasonable amount of time if it were ever to be denied. they also provide protective information and assistance met ensures pilots made in the best possible health rule of the airline career. dr. snyder, i would like for you to talk about the scope of your operations over there and ho amas supports alpa. >> thank you very much. it's a please to be here to the carow medical office was formed in nver i 969 and since that we've been providing services for its members and its leadershi we've also been interacting with the faa and international organizations, the military and the ntsb with a goal of promoting public health and
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safety. we have two primary functions that we work with. one is the consultation which is advice to the union leadership on issues such as what you will find out in the whit papers at have been distributed in th backroom. pe pick onup and look at that asthe cover important issues. the othe ofr parthe vice are to the individual pilots. we assist them with maintaining their health, providing them advice about how to best do that while simultaneously helping them maintain their medical certification and o be compliant with the rules for reporting medical conditions. we work closely with the pilot asstance committee, which the captain diluted to has five components, the aeromedical, but we also work with the hims which the captain spoke about earlier
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today, a program where pilots with the disease of addiction or abuse are successfully treated and returned to the cockpit and a very successful program. we work closely with the professional standards and clinical incidents response. teams from alpa with pilots who mayhave problemsin different areas, and many times we find erp from all of those areas. thes al worked closely with us although the have some autonomy and different regulations apply to them. the common theme of health and safety is universal for all pilots. we also spend a considerable amount of time operating in the engineering safety department to take a look at areas where pilot health might be improved throug broad areas with sggested changes and technology and regulations.
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other attractions include the legal department and retirement insurance to make sure that pilots are encouraged to get the appropriate medical care and have the ability to do so. a big part of our efforts also working jointly with the alpa.nications deprtment at we write monthly articles on health wched to inform the pilotsbout evolving technologies, current mecal conditions and how best to care for themselves. we also produce some short segments for tv. a flavor that goes off to all pilots and we have other opportunities tocommunicate health and safety information to the pilots. we also participate in a number of confer heemier conferencebeng oui confence hosted in denver every year with 300 to three nd 50 attendees.
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o international activities involved cooperation and coordination ofiternal pilounnd the we do have a relatishi with the icao medical office and dr. to evans, and our hims of reach also includes educating our international brothers and sisters regarding programs to better treat the drug and alcohol programs. most recently they've been in new zealand, hong kong and brazil to assist them in setting up programs. perhaps the most satisfying portion of what we do is collaborating with the federal air surgeon is office and a host of various. dr. tilt has been gracious working with alpa as we se working in the cooperation between industry and regulators. we also work closely with the mediviste inical d oklahoma city primarily on behalf of individual pilots but
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also to initian ctive policy changes. so of the areas that alpa has been pushing for changes in policy that have been great success our number one of the hims program over 4,000 pilots have been successfully returned to the cockpit. back in the 70's, coronary rictryease was diuaiti thf ilots undero n rept r health ot seekinte to evaluations that treatment but with the evolution of policy changes in that area now pilots utinely are returned to fly after being successfully treated with thesediseases. other examples would be the hiv-positive pilots. in the interest of the trends meridian travel but we do and the office has workedvery closeland announced policies at and allow them to use the proceeds to better prepare them
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to make them safer when they're faced with tse fihts and are facing budget lagged. a very important change in april of 2010 was a policy allowing pilots with the disease of the persian to fly on certain and testinprhtori doing so. nd w the sars epidemic were ki had each one in one there were questions whether pilots were at risk for the disease and whether they could prophylactic these medications to reduce their risk of disease. typically the of symptoms. e federal air surgeon's office was instrumental in announcing policies that allowed the pilots to fl with the prioof medion, anit was done a eet time hasbnan ongoi discussion, and n we are
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making someress to the medical aspect looks primarily not only at the science that has been so well defined. but also ways that we might augment that. and we also provide education to the pilots about other areas that might help such as theus of nutritional uplements in lieuf medications and al discoura the use of alcohol in over-the-counter antihistamines which many abuse in the past th evolving technologies and medicine there's a continuous evolution medications that are coming out but also looking at pacemakers that have been testing capabilities now, automatic internal defibrillators, perhaps the artificial pancreas for individuals afflicted with diabetes requiring insulin. the faa is implementing universal web based medical applicatiorilots we've
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been working jointly to understand some potential problems that both pilots and air traffic controllers might face with the ultra long-range flights. and we've worked with the issues and the medications. the laserhazrd exposes, the vision resech deparent within the civil medical institute was instrumental on providing this information that allowed us to educate the public at the the user has a conference that was hosted last year. we are continually interested in ouramlining of the pilots so that there is less reluctance to get treatment and report conditions to the faa and know that once they're edically und they can also be certified. and in a very, very near future i think we will be wrestling with commercial space flight medical standards not only for cew ut possibly for th passen as wel.
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i year earlier mentioned the alpa white papers. i would encourage you to pick up a copy in the back neaf the sponsors. one of the iportance is in enhancing the occupational safety and health protections which encourages and aviation health and safety partnship program with the faa, with industry and with pilot groups read there's also a white paper on the unmanned aircraft systems the medical certification ofthee for the discussion in the near future. we are very fortunate to have dr. fred tilton speaking with us today. after graduating the air force academy from west point, an air force righi commesso -- [laughter] skin and he did come to the
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rce.ht side andd th joineair fo an ha 4,00hours as a command pilot and as a senior flight surgeon in a host ouding the be, trainers commitee 37, t38 comer transport aircraft and in his last assignment the f-15. a graduate of the levers of the mexico with a masters of science and his m.d. and masters of public health from the university of s.xa aftrtingherom t rche had a career as the regional medical director for the aircraft corporation then became the corporate flight department. he took his initial position in 2000 as a deputy air surgeon and since 2006 he's in the federal air surgeon and currently he flies the citation for the faa. he's a friend, colleague, an h is pilot's docto doctors t.
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heunderan avition ais advocate for the pilot and his privileged to have him speaking with us today. [alause] hello, everyone. i usually tell people when i get an introduction like that it just proves i'm really old. so you're fortunate that you have dr. snyder working with you. we worwithhim every quarter heoes t washington with one of his staff members and we spend a significant amount of time discussing policy and then we look at ndividual cases that he represents you and your constituents and makes sure that if we are having problems and certify individuals that they get the best shot ad o he does otstding job for you ad your fortunate. and only goingak t a couple minutes to give remarks because to qutb therti a ificatiopolicy that we have to feed as you heard
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there was a pilot before it was a doctor and i used to tremble when i would see my flight surgeon thinking that the best thing i could do was break even so either get in there and get out of there and you didn't do anything to me there was a good thing. i felt that we until lives fleeing be 57 set a special squadron assigned directly to the squadron when they flew with us the went tdy. they did everything and i learned the best schweitzer the people that integrate with the pilots, work closely with them party with them, socialize with them and realize that flying is emely important and i always tell people if flight sueon can make a big mistake if he and necessarily disqualify someone which we hate to do so that leads to the certification policy which is as you well know i work in aviation safety and dfa i work for peggy gilligan
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that spoke to you earlier today and the primary reason we are there like the reason you are here is for the safety of the aerospace so i tell everyone i work with the reason we are here is to make sure the space is safe and i got to the seminars and talk to them all the time are e isdo th samereason they thing. and in fact you probably see them more than you see any other fae a perso. sevi a m e has a grea opportunity to talk to you about your history and to make sure that you are safe and to learn more things we're finding out and aerospace medicine. but if you take for granted the primary reason we are there for the aviation safety the second reason we are there is to make sure everyone we can get in the air we do and if you look on the history over the years 40 years a devotee of hypertension being treated like i do and love other things you're disqualified not just for a month or a year but forever. we've gone a long way and you look at the list of things we
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certify now, 40 years ago they would never have considered doing that and we do that based on evidence based medicine if we look at a way to find someone that can safely be certified, even though they may not meet the standards our primary mission is to get them in the air safely and our data shows that. we denied le than 400 people finally last year and the data is a little bit s ecause those are the people that pursued it all the way to the and what we denied very few people because our primary philosophy is to certify every one we can and get them in the air. the second thing i want talk about is the pilots bill of rights. to me or may not be aware of it because it was passed recently, and i'm not really sure nor is the rest exactly how this went impact but it will impact us because we are going to have a reiremt tong from the medical exams that ey're having an examination which is according to law and investigation so what will that mean? it also means they have it right
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now. they used to be evil to appeal to the national tnsportati safety bd w can appteal ine u.s. striourt which means the can get a jury trial. all of these things, and there are several aspects of the pilots bill of rights that wr t car how they're going o affect this but they will affect us. they will affect you saw in the coming months you'll learn more about that from flight standards and probably your legal of pfizer's. be aware that is coming and there's more to come in that regard. i would be happy to sit down and answer questions or stand up and the answer questions. thanks a lot. [applause] >> we really appreciate you coming today. my question has to do with the reliability policies across
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specifically of the regional airlines. i was at the air before it left a few months ago for my current job and in 2008 to implement this policy where the pilot that calls in sick because he could be disciplined if he doesn't with a few number of times than we had our accident in2009 and the company uspended the policy. a coup months ago before i left the continued once again to i direct conflict totypoiy our medical staards, and i know my ome irline has this policy. what are your thoughtso that and is dfa looking into these individual airlines that do have these reliability policies? >> welcome a first of all of you have issues like that, medical probably is not the correct
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organization that would be flight standards looking at the management of an airline. i certainly do not think that it is a godidea for people not to be able to sellhe airline their sixth. i said at the outset my primary reason for being here is aviation safety, and if someone is telling you you're sick and you have to fly an airplane it's counter to the philosophy for many reasons i do not support such a policy but in effect we do not the policy for the airlin to feel there's a conflict with your airline but they're causing a safety issue you should report it to the flight standards and not medical although they might talk to us about the consequences. >> we appreciate that. thank you. >> gd afternoon, dr. tilton.
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the operations group share i actually had a couple of questions. from your perspective we have some emerging technologies coming our way. uas is on the was brought up on e sle and i wondered if you co elaborate your thoughts of your medical issues that might be unique to uas. that's one. in the same kind of question with cooperation in particular i've had a couple of bouts with kidney stones, and that -- i don't know if there's an airline pilot that hasn't had a kidney stone. i didn't know if there was any more information along that. i know we've joked often about wanting to start aeserch product and why that's such sue with pilots, but just those questions about the aeromedical challenge is faced guy perhaps uas and the altar operatis >> i wlstart off first of all by saying i hope there is at
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least one airline pilot that hasn't had a kidney stone. and i don't know if there is an increase instance of kidney stones and pilots, but i do know that one of the reasons people have kidney stones is because they get dehydrated and seeing an airliner at 7% humidity for the ultra long flights as you talked about sometimes 18 hours even longer if people are not hiding themselves as a possibility they get dehydrated and if they had the potential already have a kidney stone that might exacerbate the problem, as i don't think anybody has done a study that says that pilots have kidney stones because of that or the increased incidence of kidney stones and it's significant because if you have a kidney stone those of you that have had it will tel yothat it's not something you ought to have in an airplane. they are extremely painful and there is something we watch and certainly we have lots of people that have had wafers with kidney stones and were concerned you might have won in flight that might pass and createp oblems.
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i will get back to the first question which is what are we doing about uas and what do i think the aeromedical saturation with respect. we are actually ong t develop standards for people worried the u.s. and the problem is there are so many different kinds hotse airplanes butterflying. some of the more the size of a bumble bee and some of them are the size of a 737 or bigger and how do you deal with the individuals to operate those. some of them are doing it by line of sight and some are having an observer that watche e .m and they may be inspectingi some of them are flying on a computer programs and so we have all kind of issues associated with a vision, associated with hearing, associated with coe fugnitivtions of programming and as you are we aware some of them are flying completely prevent a and a takeoff and landing and you don't do anything else. some of them are flying like model airplanes or actually visual control and there are other ways that you can control these airplanes. so we are going to look at come
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and the faa is actively trying to figure out how we will develop medical standards and we are working on rules to do that. right now we have no authority to regulate those medical condition but i think entually -- i don't think eventually mns a longi te, but it's going to take months or a year or two to figure out how we develop a standard because this whole damn gammut how we deal with them in the air, held as air traffic control deal with s which isth cdc. manage your because there is no guinn in global hot to see outside. so, it is an issue for us in medicine, for air-traffic control and for u.s. pilots. very complicated in the coming months some standards associated that operateem and finally at the end of the day they are not completely sure.
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>> i'm the last one standing. i get to ask the big question. first of all i would like to say as a recipient of a special issuance medical, thank you very much. it was a wonderful thing tget that back. i would like to congratulate ou folks for the prcess move. i was quite surprised. pleasantly surprised. but my question has more to do wi as we in he aircraft design operns group move forward we hear manufacturers talking about deconstructing of single pilot transport carrier planes and things like this. i just wonder why you look at in medical standards as you would consider that type of this is a
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much more way down the road projecbut as we loo at the looming potential pilot shortage there's two things i see coming. one is the single public transport aplanesnd the other is perhaps pilots flying past 865. >> single pilot is an interesting issue in bachelet, pilots and the united states have less of an issue than they do in the united kingdom and in europe and even in canada and the reason i say that is we not certify iividualst we feel we have some kind medical problem will create a problem, safety problem in the air. the europeans and the i'm not sure of the rest of the world, have programs where they will certify one that says only for participation in a multi pile at the cockpit wi a qualified. we don't do that. so, these certified people so that we believe they are just as safe to fly in an airplane as
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someone who might no hava specl issuanceor a labor. as a result of that from th medical perspective, don't think thataving a single pilot transport airplane is as big an issue as i do think maybe from the flying public who wanders about one pilot and what happens if that person has some kind of a medical problem. and as you are awre, we frequently see pilots that get incapacitated not because they have the condition that is disqualifying the of the gastrointestinal problem or something that affects them temporarily where two days from now they are ready to go for it and settle. yet if they've been alone in the airplane and have accomplished what that affect the safety of the aerospace. i've actually heard of some manufacturers who are developing the single cockpit airplanes and decided that the public wasn't ready for those kind of your plans and that's anecdotal. i'm not sure if that is true or not but with respect to your question how's it going to
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affect medical not so mu in the united states, more so in europe because of the way they certify people. does that answer your question? >> sure did. thank you again. >> i do not have a kidney stone. [lauter] and safety coordinator for canada, and i'm also an agent chair and i amore interested in the international certifation. the idea of course is to try to globally harmonize as much as possible the certification standards through icao and other bodies. i'm just wondering how the faa is cooperating with what venues are using to work with transport canada, to work with icao on the harmonization of medical e harmonization.there is in fact
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estimate it used to be in my opion tter tn it is now. and the reason i say that is shortly after i can to the faa has the deputy, the jaa essentially chief of standards came over and visited with us d said couldn't someon rom the se come and help them develop their medical policy. joint aviation thority was struggling how were they going to eate their medical standards in europe so that thed then input that aha coite t quarterly. maybe somime only thretim a year but usally quarterly, and i would go -- i went over there as a participant n tat committee, and i sat through those meings. i leneda l.
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>> to develop thstandards. as a matter of fact, elated to , you may beware that on the 20th of july, a ule was to finalize this. the re weasonot that requiremt is that weere
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audited. we were carrying a letter of authorization detailing the reasonstht we have thatr eber. at first they wanted us tout directlon theal certicwe said there is we are g. we allow the accommodation to carry the accommodation letter. it was because the auditors told us we needed to do that. that issue had privacy
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information on it. it was not necessary, we believe, because they need a medical certificate showing they are medically certified to fly. that is one thing that w have done with the international folks to make flying safer and healthier and easier for you. >> a former flight safety pilot, an airline pilot about a month ago who received an e-mail from i believe, from your office with your signature about a survey about ame. i'm curious interests of his objective if you have the facts, rebooking to change any stdards athis time? >> we don't have the results back yet am an guess i am aware
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of that. it isactually one of our office in oklahoma city. they do that every two years. what they are looking at is to get a consensus to what ame are thinking and how we can do our business better. not necessarily changing but this is much more -- how we can make it more effective. and where can we change policies so that it will make easier for them to do their job and as a consequence come help you get certified to get your medical certificate. >> is there one particular challenge that seems to be a large challenge for them getting recertified? >> i would not say there is a particular challenge other than the earlier challenge was. we were thankful that he got it so quickly. we worry about that a lot. in fact, we just los the person whruns t certificatio commissi for over 15 years, warren silverman, who has been
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replaced by an individual naed courtney scott. one ing we have done to ishance our biiic expand to the region as ell. a pilot can talk to their regional medical diector and so can a ame. hopefully the business of loing the way reduceatio makinge expeditious and enhancing our ability to do that quickly and safely is one of our primary goals be met under certainly your group i don't know if it is better or more clear or less ambiguous. somebody was doing certain things. >> if a person has a particular
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issue, which is stable, some kind of cancer, for instance, although they have had cancer, it has now been secured, although if you have cancer come you're not obscure -- it's possible a comeback in years. if you are stable and we believe a person is stable and we are asking for the doctor to give us a report every year in the report comes back and says, i told you he was okay lasser, there is no good reason for us to do that. there is no reason for you to have to get that report. perhaps if you are being followed by your cancer doctor, you can get back here ame or the enemy can make that decision. instead of requiring those, we will just issued on a regular issuance and may you have this history. and if you have a recurrence, you need to let us know. hopefully that will streamline
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the certification process be met thank you. >> if i may comment, there are numerous examples of the office of aerospace streamline the process. the documentation, most recently, we have seen a substantial reduction in the process in time for pilots diagnosed with sleep apnea, which may affect four to 6% of the u.s. population cod it is a difficult condition and has adverse effects on aviation safety. yet the initial certification process required a series of tests that were both expensive and required among period between getting the data to the faa. so it discourage pilots from obtaining evaluations for a possible serious medical condition. now the they have shortened the process to allow technology to
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take advantage of getting back quickly, the process has gone from just under two weeks. pilots are encouraged to get treatment for diseases they might have. >> hello, i'm calling wilson with mesa all -- airlines. accusations are claims of the amount of radiation that we are exposed to on certain flights, can you give us an example of this in other aspects of our lives come and going into the solar flares that we are seeing so much on the news these days, is adding to that exposure and that kind of segues into my
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final part, did you discuss the interactions that you have with other aviation safety health organizations such as the cdc and possib even nasa. >> unfortunately, the person who used to runthat organization, molly freberg he actually developed the ability to look at things like solar flares. to determine whether or not an airplane should be diverted up based on the proton -- the probability that a proton storm might occur and cause some problems. so we actually have an algorithm that we can use to look at those and see if airplanes need to be and we haveactual done some studies looking at certain kinds of cancers to see if they are caused by exposure in the cockpit. there is one particular kind of cancer called melanoma, which
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there may be some relationship with. but i don't have the data, and right now it is anecdotal. certainly if you are at an altitude come and there is a possibility of being exposed. the higher they go, the less i'm sure that you have protecting yourself. there is a probability to be exposed. you are protected somewhat by the cockpit windows, and there are some issues that we don't have all the answers to. the numbers are saying that if a person is exposed in an airliner, he or she has a much greater risk of a specific kind of cancer. there is a relationship to melanoma. we need some more data on that, i don't know. i have no more data than that. the last part, and then i ill let him answer the question if you want to, is that we interact with some of the other safety organizations. i am on an oversight board at nasa for their medical committee.
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sony have significant issues, they will call the sport together and we need to discuss their policies and hopefully help them develop their safety standards that the implemented at the faa. there are members on that in the military and the private community, there was a member on there from a national transportation safety board. other than that, with respect to interactions with this individual by quay, we do interact with the oversight committee that helps them and they are a group of ame's that help deal with pilots and their medical issues, to help them deal with their problems. i frequently get calls from the chairman of the medical committee and i also get calls from gary crump, who is the aopa individual to deal with.
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and with the medical certification division in oklahoma city to deal with difficult medical certification issues. with comment with respect to the cancer issue, i would be happy to talk about it. >> there are three studies that i am aware of. we have looked at a study from the university of south carolina that looked at cancer deaths. and essentially, pilots were a healthier coho than the general population on that. there was an increased incidence of melanoma, but it wasn't clear that that was caused by radiation received a bye. it may be that pilots have easier access and more leisure time to get to warm climates where they might be exposed to that. there was one study of an increased incidence of a brain tumor that is rare in pilots in
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canada, but it lacked the power because of the low numbers to make an association of that. and there was another study of flight attendants in scandinavia, which may have shown a slight increased risk of east cancer. wally friedman got a certain type of cancer. i know that health and the allied airline pilots association, and also, it looks at monitoring radiation dosages. much like radiation type workers
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that would wear a dosimeter. for the individual pilots, those answers are not satisfactory. the person who is at highest risk is the pregnant pilot in her first trimester. that is an individual decision about whether she should fly or not. there are certain strategies that we recommended if they were continued continuing to fly. those women should fly at lower latitudes because of the greater shielding and also fly at lower altitudes to get more protection. lower radiation than someone doing a trans- puller rupert hopefully at some point in the future, there will be actual dissenter ratings and we can compare those to radiation
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workers. >> good afternoon gentlemen. i am ceo of the flight safety foundation. in the opening remarks, you had talked about evidence-based medicine. and that has piqued my interest because in the safety world, we are interested in evidence east training. those types of things. i was wondering if you might be able to go into it just for a few minutes about what that means as far as evidence-based medicine, who is collecting that data, and how are you using that data to help us as pilots? >> the way that we collect that data is getting that from general studies on various kinds of cancers. various kinds of medical issues. effectively you could look at heart disease, for instance, as i said in my earlier remarks, 30 or 40 years ago, if someone had high blood pressure, they got
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disqualified. if they had a heart attack, they got disqualified. if they had a heart transplant come and they got disqualified. because we felt the risk and our primary concern we have is looking at catastrophic risk. i tell people that if i can figure out if someone has a particular problem and we certify them for six months and they will fall over dead and one day i was certified for six months -- the problem is there is a lot of heart in the business and it is not all times. we can look at particular kinds of cancer and say that the most likely problem with that would be a spread to the bone rather than to the brain. and that is the big problem because of the cancer spreads to the brain, sometimes the first time we know it is there is when they have a seizure, which is not a very good thing to have in an airplane. so we look at the data. we tried to determine what kind of problem a particular person might have, and we do this based on the literature and we also
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look at our cohort, which means our people and pilots come and see what they have and see if we can gather any extremes. you ask who is collecting the information. we have millions of records that people have been certifying over the years. the problem is that databa is what is called a relational database. it is difficult for us in some ways to go through that database and pick up the issues. although we are getting better at it. there is a medical information system in the faa which is a really good collection of information systems. not medical information, but called a science, which is collecting over 70 databases and putting that together to look at accidents is the if there is a way become prospectively look at accidents. we have a similar database and medical, which takes the database i told you about and looks at it to determine whether
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or not a particular medical condition could create an accident. the first clear data that we got that we did that with was with a particular condition called atrial tribulation, where they were cleaning the data to make sure there were not errors and then determine that a person with each real tribulation treated a specific way was cleared to fly. we are looking at doing that with other conditions to make sure that when we certify someone come we can do it safely, but also to allow the certification of more people that we might have disqualified in the past. >> that is very interesting. thank you for your comments. >> jason heldman from alaska airlines. i was wondering if you would promote a policy which having an arbitrary age 65 retirement, which would instead depend on
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one getting older past the age of 65. i am doing this right now but i'm still confident, so i apologize for that. >> refresh me again? >> 65 years old. >> okay, 65. we had a big problem with age 60. the reason that we had that is there was a ruling in the faa that says if you have a safety rule in order to change that safety rule, you must prove that more safe than it was before. we took at age 65 or that
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reason. people were living longer and you look at longevity -- people could -- people could basically fly an airplane up to age 65. i think as we go beyond the law that changes age 60 to 65, we have demonstrated that it was safe to do so. but it was done so by congress passing a law. now, if you ask me should we change from age 65 to 70. the problem is that people have two different kinds of age great to have a chronological age, which means that they go from one to two to 10 to 90. but they also have a physiological age, with which means they could fly into their 80s and we have a lot of people that are certified over 80 who are blind privately. in canada, and australia -- they actually don't have an air but intersection. there are pilots can't fly internationally unless they point to a country that allows
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them to do that. they need to meet epa standards. if i can figure out a way to measure someone's physiological age, and i would certainly say that i support them flying beyond age 65 commercial rate. the problem is i might also find someone who is this a logically sound, which also could create a problem. when we are looking at people, looking at their longevity, what kind of medical conditions they get, making sure that there's a logically, they are okay to fly beyond that, then we figure out a way to go beyond age 65. right now we don't know how to do that. >> at the time of a5 d the debate, there was a blue ribbon panel that was formed to look at it.
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when they came to office and and we had some discussions there. there were two isses. the fit was the riskf incapaion, such a heart attack, a stroke, a seizure, or any other event. e otherwas the issue of subtle incapacitation when you look at the data fght safety foundation and aero safety world, they published the most recent paper that i saw. yond that theisk of sudden incapacitation really is age independent, the largest group of incapacitation's would be your nose and throat or g.i. teachers can happen with any age depending on that. heart attacks -- sure, you have an older folks. you are able to test for the cally, b from a public health perspecti thember false positives that you get in an asymptomatic population doesn't justify testing that group of people. the bigger worry was the subtle
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incapacitation. it is not a perception come as a fact that there is some cognitive decline with aging. you gave me a good study in paper on that. the gentleman from the naval air of medical institute. the question is do you draw the line and do you testing, tng that is vle,oe it give you relevant medical cognition? our recommendation was thatthe training process was a better proxy than doing testing on individuals because of the variability. and if you instituted that is a requirement, you would have some 35-year-olds who would not qualify and they would not meet the cognitive standards where you can have people who were 75 or 80 years old. they couldn't exceed those standards. it was a very difficult
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situation and i was very pleased to see that the faa essentially kept the standards identical to what they are. and there our airmen who are 80 years old and even in her 90s hold a first class medical certificate. the age 65 restriction is a safety restriction based on operations rather than on a medical issue. >> good afteoon a delta air medical german. d csely with doctor snyderd i o p t alo incere hans for success of the ssri ruling. it has changed lives. i take phone calls on a regular ntsis. i to pointuhe unintended consequees and while i know what to better
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lying on thesss at delta, i can think of a dozen others wh ha entered treatment nd not have to go on her are for life, yet cause erwilling to go and sk counseling and seek help that was needed. i want t thk you. it really does make a difference. the question i have at goes with t hnernational instit mentaheal dat suatumbe should be significantly higher than we are seeing. we are seeing the numbers in double digits and it should be more. what can yo doto help us identify those people so they get they get the help they need that they need so that they can return. because everyone, it virtually returns in our experience.
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>> that problem worries me. it is one of the things that people say that keeps me up at night. the reason it keeps me up at night is i think we are probably more conservative than we need to be. if you are aware of the standards that we have, we require a person on medications for a year to be stable for over a year. that is the biggest concern. the reason we did this was becauswe want to make sure that we don't certified someo and find out down the road that that was a mistake. probably the best ple of th is the medicatiocalled chantix that was used and s is used to prevt smoking. and we actually certified people on chantix for a while and then we started finding out, in fact, the fda put out a otice called a black wewill notice that said those people are having a significant increase in suicidal tendencies, in some cases actual suicide, and we had to go back and uncertified all of those people because we were concerned
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that suicidal or acts is not something we could certified semaphore. we went from not certifying people with depression and certitude certified people on depressants antidepressants, we want to make sure we get it right. although, we think in the long run we will reduce it to some shorter period of time. also, even on regulations now, we only certified for different jobs. although we have said that if we find other medications, and i am certain that as medical science improves medication in the research, we will find other better drugs and medations than the one we are using now. it will increase the number of medications that are certificated. the year-long period that makes people way, some of them say they either have been taking
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them and say, well, i know that other people are certified, so it is probably okay for me to continue to do this and not report it, because i know i'm going to lose my longevity for some period of time. that is kind of a distant have better that convinces people that they should not be acknowledging the. some other peopleay i understand i havto wait a year, i'm depressed, i can't afford it or i don't want to be disqualified for some period of time so they are flying in a depressed state, which is also not good. i am looking at better ways to certificate people and give more people an opportunity to get certificated as they need it, to reduce the certification of time that they require in order to be on the medications, so that we can certify more individuals. the data of the uncertified are probably not -- that is not equal to what number are in the normal population -- the
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noncertified -- nonfying poputi. think there are people that need to gtt -- given opportunity, and we are working out ways to do that. >> again, just wanto say thank you. it has made a difference in many, many lives the people that we work with. thank you. >> you are welcome. >> good afternoon, gentlemen. i am a born content boardmember. this question is for doctor sner asou know, a we reresent pilots in canada and the united states. can you elaborate on your relationship with our regulato in canada, transport canada? if you can elaborate on any fuels to the transportation tribunal in canada and any denials you may have seen it might've been certified in the u.s. or vice versa if you aware ofnyifferences we
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might. >> sure, i would be happy to comment. canadian brothers and sisters are very independent. the calls that we get from canadian pilots usually relate to be effective medications, surgical options available, different types of treatments. or policies with respect to the faa. in canada you have a much closer relationship with your aviation medical examiner's here. which are also regional flight rgeons. there ems to be a very llegiainterchange of formation. so, mr. dave noble, he does an absolutely fantasticob in coordinating the reso turceshat are canadian alpha pilots use and have been very successful. we don't have direct actions with doctor david salisbury, the
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gentleman looks at canada on individual cases. we do communicate with him on policy issues. but i can't give you any data on individual cases where denials have been appealed to him through our office. mr. noble and ms. munro, they are those who coordinate that >> [inaudible question] i just wa to brieflyask you -- and we talked briefly about melanoma and the rest -- maybe we are starting to see it. just talking withoths out there. when i was in the cockpit of the aircraft should be protecting us from sun damage. and i wanted to see if you have any guidance among the community that those windows are not productive and we should be
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seeking actie rotection, applyingunblock torotect us from n only somea ut lanoma as well. don' nkthis i s mch in a neat question as its general health question. probably he walked around in black clothes and under an umbrella from the time you ate to six mons orwhen u st walking, you would be beter off thf you didn't do ha. whatoctor snyder saiearer is that are not sure whethe thrisks ofthe pilots have is attributable to being in an airplane or two the fact that they may have more leisure time and lying on the beach sunning themselves. i know when i was young and the witches when they were wearing blue and we gray gray uniforms, used what everything is done and i didn't wear sunblock and i would get baked and by the end of the summer, i would be brown and tan than the sun didn't seem
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to bother me. but i was still cooking myself in the sun. people in my generation grew up that way. i strongly recommend that people wear sunblock when they go out. even if theyare there for a short period of time. i recommend that people wear hats and i think that everyone should do that regardless of their occupations. so i wouldn't say so much that i would recommend for pilots, necessarily, that they wear sunblo, there was the night would recommend that everybody we're sunblock and protect themselves from the sun. i does mean that i think you should be more like a month and never limits on -- the sun is not a bad thing. do eyou need to do, you need to rything else. you need to moderate what you do and when you go out of the sun, you should wear clothing, unless you are bathing, you should wear sunblock to protect itself. >> i think also the physics are that the uva uvb is adequately screed through the cockpit wind we
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worry about what penetres the heavy partesicl- the heavy particles l photons that netrate when there are solar flares. but if we were successful in getting some sort of resity, either through ha, thfaa orthe comanies and doing those imagery studies of pilots, we would have a much better idea of what to radiation exposure is, and then we can coe thto thnown data that we ave determined an estimate as to the risk for certain ypes of cance. at this point, we just don't have th data or is thee an interest in collecting that data? will that be soon? or is there a pushbutton industry? >> there is an interest, and i would encourage you to pick up a copy of the alpha white paper that i alluded to in my opening remarks. regarding pational safety and health a i piotswth th proposal to create partnership between the faa,
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osha, and those industries and labor to see if we could get that itituted andmonitor and perhaps action based on the results of tt. at tpoint in time, it does not exist. >> thank you, gentlemen. >> i am part of the safety staff. doctor tilton, i am sorry to hear about wally friedberg's passing. he was always a very knowledgeable individual and they go to person for any questions we had on the radiation and radiation issues. we appreciate it. his expertise being available to us. yesterday, the industry had a long history of collaboration on a number of issues that doctor snyder mentioned. it drills back over 35 years. to help people for pilots with issues in regard to alcohol
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substance abuse. doctor tilton, i am wonderi you could share with us and thoughts you might have, on a collaborative efo the faa can eter nto to ensure ad improve pilot health and safety. >> against the bt collaborative effort i'm aware of right now is what we have one doctor snyder and his group -- he represents not only that but otheorganitions as well. their philosophy, he may or may not be aware that none of his doctors are 80 medical examiners because they want to have no idea that it is a conflict between them. people thatacally support the organizations that they work wi. not to say that that doesn't mean that they are fuly qualified and competent to do thf they wanted tobe. they certainly know all of our
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gulations an they undrstand y we do things. but as i said earlier. we meet with them quarterly. frequently we get calls from them i talked to clean out ekly, but ite pafully about specific cases, specific ises, specific concerns that he and his group might have. i also do that with the eaa, and as i said, p s well. the collaboration that i see is having people with medical knowledge and understand what is going onaorking together to find whatever we can to make sue we are ding the right thing for thfety o the people in the pilots that operate in it. i don't have a better answer than that because there are not a loofndls who have the expertise in sn scso thexpti and aow if you look at the doctors and the faa, we have over 15
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individuals who are board certified in medicine, doctor snyder's group are all that way. so we understand not only the science of the medicine, but also the science of the way that particular issues interact with someone when they are in a cockpit or in a cabin or maintaining airplanes on the ground. so that using that expertise and that information, we do the best can to certify as many people as we can, but do it safely at the same time. i thigrea etu. you brought up their was the program. it has been in place intermittently since 1974. the faa funds the program. they provide the funds, which is administered throughou the entire airline ustry. as to the disease process of alcoholism, substance dependency, and to find a way to readily identify, intervene and
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treat rebitate, return flight status under a rigorous program. withouthe faa's sport, we would go nowhere in that. what wre seg ishat other internationalorganitions really want theaa d what htablave eshed . they want inon ow this.before thero was unrground. as fred said if you hav hyperten, w e as wearings hi blue and gray uniform. don't ow i heaa lue or grey guy. [laughter] when he was wearing that uniform, you are disalied. nly, ham heas, uman inteentimes on study, ac from the 70s when you could not say airline pilot and alcohol in the same aragph or pa effectiveness is just increasing and has spread. it is done in close collaborion wi thf, heir mnagent, and withort the pilot unions and als the me.
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thefaatraina vrmi ld nueroftiopos thrugh our m.prra sponsorsortt. s ase indepeenmedical sponsors are the same ones who provide the scrutiny that the faa requires forte people on the ssris as ll. it is a reat program, tremendously successful, and it is probably the premier example coopeti and collaboration betweente faa he industry. >> that is gat. thanky >> hello, i a the chairma earlieu auded to other countries ceifying pilots with medical conditionss h a th ianothercr ewmember, to fly which i had never heard of before thwas interested o know ife aryn
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mber oinstans inpa. t siverus the sort of single pilot basis that you said that we are using and further, if the eight and 10 faa has considered using that standard going fowa, maybe on a shortage of pilots and things that they will need to cover . >> d think thathare ecifany spdies that ve beenone tohow that. i real frankly believe -- i'm not sure how it would help, well, let me saydifferently when i used to go over to erope every quaranta to ese pele, i would gue about the fact that theyer unarilydisqalifng people, people that we felt were certainly safe to y. people thaerqud on pecial issuance. for ta thse wth stts or the srgery. they were cnsvative and would not let those flypeopleunless
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they had another person in the ckpit. i cannot think of an instance where there was soone that they will awe wouldn't have qualified to be in a two-person cockpit. what i tnk is they were unnecessarily restricting people so they could not fly b themselves by at i meany themlou ele in te cokitho is full medica cndition. i can't think of situation that wouldover the question thatoue, which is could we reilots in te cockpi if we ade a decision to certify people restricting them. we also actually, years ago in the19swe were revented fr putting restrictions on first-class pilots becau we lost aawsuit in which we were restrictflight engineers, eyeede a first-class certificate, but they can ony fly flight engineers, and nowwe can't respect a f-ccertiftherat
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are legal precedents to say thate can't do it, plus reelievehen i lk to my unterparn europe, thy were overly restrictive and 't nd at they were ing. >> i would say that he faa -- you have a better chance of e unedtates th any othercate in country in the world. there are a few exceptions, the ssris, were before, in canada. the evidence-based medicine policy has allowed liberalization f th stanards and labors ande re just thrilled with the spectrum of that. there have bn some studies abn-flight iapacitation, t itot discriminate between two pilot crews and one picrew bu beliea tthere has ner been ar ported aircraft accident in thunittates as result of incpacitationn a commercial situation of a two
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pilot crew. th aospaceedicine association hublished two studies ov the last 12 or 13 yes, i believe, n reported in-flight incapacitation. they get called no the faa as crmember incapacitation and go throh the normal investigative procs. >>one just her comment. i reallybelie today, andi tell pple that when i was applying c41, we id a airungf a bi m pretty tt somethg hppo chael lot, utake over and nd theirple and talk the dio d do all of that stuff at i need to do. in today's world, as you are well aare with flight management systems and programming inayt we the w fly airplanes now in our airspace, if you takseen heathrow and you are in weat that is really a two pilot operation. the second pilot is not there to make sure that the first ilot
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-- the other pilot is incacited,ut hn e airpne. he is there and he or she has a specific responsibility, and erefore necessary to safely operate. i know airlines do incapacitation training and i support that. i init's greatecause we do have cases where people are incapatad. buat is not oimaland i would much prefer to have a situation where both pilots are fully qualified and perfectly competent when i am flying in a situation such as i just described. arehere any more questions out there? >> is everyone satisfied and happy? >> ai, i guess we w up. distd gues.e to thank our thank you mr. snyder and doctor tilton. thky, ha you for everything including answering the questions. have a good day.
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[applaus >> thankou, hairman. an excellent panel. very interesting subject matter to allf that are out there flying airplanes. okay, that concludes our ne for tody. weak for the evening and retire to a reception sponsored by boing, lowe just a moment to take care of some housekeeping items and you go over the dule for rrow. by the way, you will see at each of your seats and evaluation form printed one blu paper. before you leave the room please fill it out and place it in one of the baskets in the back of the room. or return it to the registration table in the hall. your comnts are rymportant to us. as fomorrow, we will start with a continental breakfast with our exhibitors from 730 until 830 in te mornng or it is a good chance you ok over ting y ay not have
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visited yet. we eourage everybody to tak advantage of that. we begin our presentations at 830 starting with a lk on the ri-bed security. we have a lot going on tomorrow and you won't want tmiss it. they get or being with us today, and thank you for the sennheiser corporation for sponsoring the audiovisual and the webcast. see you at the bowling receptn at 5:30 p.m. we stand adjournedntil 8:30 a.m. tomorrow morning. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> youare watching c-span2 at politics and public affairs weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate. on weeknights, watch key publi policy events, and every weekend, tatt nonfiction authors and books on the tv. you can see past programs and get our schedules at our website, you can j in the conversation on social media
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sites. >> each day this week you're on c-span2, we are looking at some of the pastors national press club luncheon speakers. today, former conressman patric kennedy and jim ramstad on health insurance for that starts at 6:00 p.m. eastern. at 7:00 p.m. eastern, our q&a programs featuring journalists. today douglas brinkley on his book about the late cbs anchor walter cronkite. mr. brinkley discusses mr. cronkite's grip on the front line into world war ii and his rise through the ranks of cbs. live at the same time on booktv.org, author of the party is over,is authorrecnt hiscareer goes a staff member of the budget committee. he is speaking at politics and ose bookstor at :30 p.m eastern and apple tv.org.
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booktv.org. >> the library of congress has a new exhibit. books that shaped america. eighty were selected by e library for their influence on america and american culture. here is a brief interview about the exhibitnd how you can join in on online chat about the library's list and what books >>actulychosoks tte included. shaped america, as whon that cnged ameri. we think that bookslowlye so mansasuch an society. prnd influence on america culture and society, and indeed, the very essence of what america is. the nly eception was thomas edison's book on electricity and thomas paine's book that saved the american revolution. it is critical part of american culture. many have been identified as the
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aspirations we have as a nation, othe told about experiences that we had uniquely as amecans we also thought that it was rely important to look at nonfiction and books that either were sel help or broke arries of certain kinds. we looked for many books that were innovative and kind of showed america is an innovative country, it used booksand stories to inspire going into the frontier and that could be literally or intellectually. >> if you would like to participate in an online discussion with roberta schaefer, associate librarian of the library of congress,ne that we will there on 10 then err on booktv, we would like to hear from you. e-il us at be at c-span.org. >> meet jerry conley.
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he's a member of the oversight angovernmt reform committee and he is here for the next 45 minutes. we are going to be talking a lot about taxes. let's talk about why you cast a vote thing that the bush tax cuts should be extended one year. >> well,ou know, it has been reported that that is not entirely a fair question. i voted for the two democratic proposals first heard but when they did so, the choice was we allow all bush tax cuts to expire weeks in them for another year. my position has been very persistent the lastwo years. in fact in 2010, i was the first democrat, almost the only democrat to call for the theory eension of ec economy. unfortunatel t lgdp numbers, we were only going up 1.5%. one of the inconvenient truths
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about our economy is that the top 5% income bracket account for 30% of spending. if you are worried about the economy, and i am, ts isot a time to take a chance. what progress is and what we ve to understans the lt thing we want to do is see thisn because the people who are the most effective, those who are the most vulnerable are the people we are trying to protect. the rich are no going to be huy another contraction. the 1% are not going to be hurt. but folks at the lowr income brackeand the lowedd incomebrcket wilx erice greains. we must, a cst od even a chance of an econoc retrtion arecesi th imyhinking for cas democrats inngso.view hetade. eol are saying theyalwed to
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would like to see at.w. i ink the presidens number that is t lo. th is a nstent position r rs ithe fouren in the 00ollarlimt, in, st thinkse too los are w. they ito at ndi t thatthink a good thor the llionolresh which senator noan - thy have demo ted the millilaron-dolfigure apnent reshol i am cofide cwe cae up with a higher thold numb that is mo balli.frkly, we uld t which is bovethat threshold to exre. any, ithe ng w .
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questrioed to viinia perhaps the highest ctedaffe sequestration. the mryilitaobs could be fected. again,e thie sequestration of stalemate in >>sttions going to bed up? addressed in one fashio or going be n succession. i ted that three prominent memberof the see natad a seriesf wnall meetingin some swing states. it wasot politic, of rs it came from mars as somehow was the propos of the whithouse. it was the repubi coress ho f the fir im in american history, sed to allodebt cling vote. neverine 1917 ve weever conditioned a debt ceing ease o anything.
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senate ts on conditioning ai big package of debt reduction. a noble goal, but playing with fire with u.s. economy, and indeed we have one credit rati theea the superof that. and they aouriedi thn su mittee, namely if th supemmittecan do its w fectjanuarofnext ye. that was a republican creation. >> iecall tha the white house suppord the idea >>ltimy, t did it to the debt ceiling increase. otherwise we d o credit. it depends on thehoice. neither did we. i wanted a an bt ceili ulnot ge it.
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d i wasn ing to -l some of r friends on the other side othe aisle, not goto risk the cred wortness of the ited states of americaa for certain, that would hav st heconomy ba into recessi. thisas theeaon and the isis that theycatena theyre t ones o wlked at they crtebecaus awayroe super cotee e isak autenue mearg oth ese romine reblican mbers ofre heexpressip concern for its setratwhen t potion pon w us in a littbit li the throws hselft herc of the ourwhe s ants >> this is chart thppeared in usa tod. it loo that hoha ineased ou spending in regards , $270 bon. thats the rilev now,isingo hasortitselfo fce different charts. i think ea are stilln end of the aold.
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thcold warera we a ninmuchor gray matterrwhere were many of e reatsurare. wereryingtfoght insurgts aosond canse technology to enormous thrt. anthe useof technogy to ats.we aenetratetose kind of sti ithrohat areur the r anwha is that correc defense posture to det tho heat icare not
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lile bit orm about mrndit heas bahlors inrked fhe full commte yn fairfaouy a tota of virgia anhairmaf the board bf superrsf untycoor. g veryealiest, is ltedam counties in the united states, also one of the most diver with oo th hundred thnguages spoken inchls reign afaorigh vement committeeasell we have a caer from washgton.ir.e a >> cler:es hnk youor king my call. answer wh oer thres, hassea tpet oveoey,ndheepins jo a ary rnt noevened themndersds-- the
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