[applause] >> your watching book tv on it c-span2, 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend. peter here discovered the ebola virus and has been on the front line for the fight against aids talks about his career up next on book tv. this is just over an hour. >> good evening. welcome to the council on foreign relations. i am a senior fellow for global health here at the council. one of the global health program , and i am very pleased and excited about our discussion

a real treat because we not only have the founder of you in a, a united nations aid program, but we also have the current executive director. so we have that's true continuity that spans several decades, believe it or not. i think it will have a very lively, fantastic conversation. what i, of course, brings us here today is no time to lose, of life in pursuit of deadly viruses. i think it is important to recall that it is a memoir. it is not an attempt to write in the definitive history of anything, but rather, an attempt to describe how the world and the history developed through the eyes of key players who really live on the front lines at each individual step along the way. because it is far more

accessible, at times, almost a roller coaster read through an adventure cycle. and, i suspect it will prove to be a recruiting device for the next generation of epidemiologists, infectious disease specialist and public health leaders. it makes is seen, while, one of the most fun things to possibly do to life. one of the temps, we experience it at the same time, but from a different perspective. we both were on the front lines watching and the disease unfold which later came to be known as aids. san francisco. we both watched as as series of events unfolded that brought us to this collision course that we are on no in global health.

and actually, of course, i wrote in my first book, the description of the 1976 about break in which peter was a key player. get tense talk about all of these. we're going to do today is peter and they're going to have a conversation for about all of -- 20 minutes. then we will bring michele into the conversation and open it up to all of you here in the audience. if you have questions try to remember them. so, you are a whopping 27 years old. you have finished medical school, but you were just getting started your ph.d. efforts in microbiology. thence into the of tropical medicine and antwerp. the mysterious tested samples show of in terrible condition, and you figure out that there is

some new disease in africa. you have the heads but to turn and say i'm only 27, but i want to go there. i want to go to africa. let me go. i want to be in the middle of this adventure. where did all of this come from? >> i am actually a pretty timid and cyprus in. >> oh, yes. right. my mother always speaking. i think i am a bit different. first of all, i had an incredible urge for discovery from when i was a child. well as a teenager i like to have worked for a travel agency and when mount -- one month to morocco and one month to turkey at the time when there was no terrific infrastructure and only one goal in life.

the combination of the sense of adventure, but also their curiosity for things. when i was this allies sy also at not much respect for anarchy and authority. so, yes. that is why i said, let's go for it. the steward. twenty-seven. also, later on most people, they actually would not go jumping up and down. >> the hellhole.

>> i guess so. bricks coming away from the way you describe the episode there are four things that i think are the keys, experiences are realizations, the moments for you out of the ebola in 1976 episode. because this strange test-tube and 27 year old flying taffeta for the first time is as it turns out the ebola epidemic. you experience africa and fall in love with africa. >> right. >> secondly, you discover internationalism and all of the difficulties of coordinating and working together with scientists and all sorts of other folks around the world and you discovered the relationship between global inequity and real disease. if people are so poor they don't have a sterile syringes there will be spread of disease, and then you discover a do-getters.

to better if they were up there in the first place. the stick is a part. what was it that this one from a study several flow of wind be. >> i think it was the people, you know, that human side, the creativity. i cannot hide also the music. >> so much to do, incredible need which is still there. and the will to improve. so i saw opportunities which i think are very underestimated today in africa. when you look at just growth of gdp today, the highest rates are

no longer in asia, but africa. announcing that effort as needed, we have seen it natural resources that are there. if i did not know all these things done, nation and the want the people, the human side, but also to my gut also very upset and angry because of the inequalities. there was a group of people stealing the country to death, chilly. on the other hand, young people, a great university. you know, but nobody would stay. no electricity. so people were denied basic of obscenities, but i cannot explain it. i was bitten by the virus of africa.

>> a lot of dancing. many times when peter is so ecstatic he breaks out dancing all over the place. now, this also was your first experience trying to work with american scientists. the americans came in and said, we are in charge. particularly kirk johnson from the cdc. and, you found african colleagues to cover it with and fellow belgian scarpa to go some accountability after you'd been there while. dahlia of what you learn in 76 that gatt is euphoric about international cooperation? >> when i discovered that where i came from the means we had both financially and technically were far inferior to what was available here in the u.s. and whereas i resented that hebron, the folks from the cdc came. they said, okay, were taking

over. and so i resented that, that's absolutely true. then i saw that i could learn some much. really initiated me into field epidemiology. i am grateful for him. and it was not only the u.s., but that is like in some of these jokes. i mean, a frenchman and a south african and britain and the belgian and an american and a plan. what happened. the power of coming up from different perspectives. but i was very impressed by the technical superiority and the strategic superiority of the american colleagues. so i was there a set, i want to go to america and learn just see . next time we find a new virus i can be in charge also. it was the only for myself, but

just to become a unit, to share this. i came back to belgium. >> the sad thing you discovered after seeing patients bleed out, the horrors that are ebola, if you have not seen it, is a very terrible disease and an awful way for anyone to suffer for dying. particularly sad thing for you as a flemish kid growing up in belgium at a time when french speakers were the dominant, you know, power structure. all hell down. and you get out into this very, very remote village and find out the responsibility for it all really restive behalf with fellow flemish catholic missionaries. >> right. >> tell us what that meant to you. what did you discover? >> on the one hand i was full of

admiration for this woman. hard working, dedicated. they're running a hospital. not one person who had formal training. not enough wanted to do good, you also need basic confidence. you need to have basic entities. everyone who comes, you only have three or four syringes and a few more neals. so that was one thing. the other hand, i also discovered that it was like the times to still. these were flemish who had left

the years before. there were still thinking as if time had stood still in bills and also, which you find often with expatriates'. they have an idea, the country of origin that does not go as far anymore with how it evolves. and so that was also, it reminded me of my grandmother, my ancestors. that was something i had not expected. winter, the equator. that very adapted. >> even today you are still in touch with one of them. >> yes. the congo river. the river is about 20 kilometers wide. just incredible. he is there, but now in contact with him by e-mail.

and when i talk about this, they stare at me as if i'm coming from the stone age. not even cell phone. satellite phones to not exist, no facts imagine that, facebook. so communication was very slow to say the least. but now i'm still in touch done and he is really, has started second school. in some sort. you know, in theory in condo outside the nation's nothing else is functional. so that is also the reality. >> to fast forward a little bit, last time anybody took account that i saw in the post 2000 para 60,000 ngo related to aids in africa alone have been created. and when you think back to those

missionaries to thought there were doing the right thing but to my goodness, if you don't know how to use syringe is properly and the basics of sterile hygiene, perhaps it would be better you get there in the first place. what do you see looking forward to this explosion of ngo that can be informed by that experience? >> the good news is that global health did not even exist until 12 or 30 years ago, i try to figure out when it appeared for the first time. global health created by these movements. but so the incredible interest and money, great news. but on the downside, not always going with the most professional approach. so the key is to combine the enthusiasm, dedication, commitment with know-how and with strong evidence based

practices. that is that always there. that is one of the reasons i was so interested to move. even if i said never again in academia. now here i am. now we want to train the next generation of leaders in global health. >> in 1979 he participated an autopsy on a belgian sale warehouse. you say in the book, i was not some smart enough to see it was a new syndrome, but i knew we had never seen anything like it before. and it was. >> aids. ..

but when you are immune deficient, you can conclude so we've never seen that can't they were cut in these microbacteria. very strange and then we started seeing some others. it's the same way that aids was described in this with other opportunistic so to use the nicu

decided in the sexually transmitted diseases are acutely important, and it's so interesting that you adopt that as one of your major interests when almost anybody else -- and there's all this culture, and you come to the united states and you get a whole bunch of training in that area the never city of washington he's still there in seattle and a leader in s tds. then you go back to 1983 with some of the same people in the 1976 able lot epidemic. you're in that massive -- anybody that's ever been there knows what i'm talking about massive colonial hospital, and you say in the book -- you wrote

in your diary incredible catastrophe. this is what i want to work on. it will change everything. what would change everything? what were you looking at? >> one of my observations is they've lost their mother and they have all kinds of things, but i've been there in 76 and here i enter internal medicine, men, women who would young men and women in these days of age all kind of these opportunistic some we had like 100 cases and patient coming and that's why we went there.

it was so overwhelming because i knew that it was not there and the head of internal medicine hat put aside for us like the 65 patients in the previous month or so and this was the extent of it. the fact that it was slightly more women than men let's not forget that in 83. i never understood why the virus would care about its host because the purpose of a virus is to jump from one host to another. so i saw that and i said i can't believe this must be -- it's heterosexual is one thing i said and there's far more in the world and the same sex sex and

women from my studies on sexually transmitted diseases they were free rampant and it's going to be a catastrophe, and unfortunately i was right. >> host: you together with a jonathan mann said of the aids project and the first time we met was 1985. it was the first international aids conference in a land of georgia, which had almost -- >> hard to believe because the upcoming had about 25,000 people. and first of all, i don't think we could possibly have imagined -- i know i couldn't -- in 1985 at that meeting. but we were at the front end of something that would still be around in 2012. that would by then have second or killed about 74, 75 million human beings. but in 2012 there would be 34,

35 million people live with this disease on every continent in the earth. but what i've remember most about that meeting is there was a moment when this very tall white guy was transmitting for a much shorter fellow, and a cluster of us were standing around you. and a wall street journal reporter who was absolutely sure that hiv was a gay disease wouldn't accept the notion of general heterosexual transmission. so, isn't it true africans have sex moore i remember this region your face changes colors and you knew that you have to respond. >> why was this call white guy

and it gave him time to think. then he said i'm not aware -- we don't do this. but i [inaudible] [laughter] >> don't people go to see donkeys. but if you think about it, and i do want to bring michelle and in a moment. but to flash for word and frame that period because your title is no time to lose, and all through the book you express the sounds of urgency to respond and regretted that the response wasn't faster. and if you look back to that critical period in the 1980's and 90's before we had effective treatment in 1996, we had many

moments when interventions were blocked because of the human rights issues. so we never could tackle the we that we did syphilis or gonorrhea. and the rationale for not doing so was well, there's treatment for syphilis and gonorrhea. there is no treatment for hiv. if you identify someone as hiv-positive, it will simply be a life of discrimination. when you look back, do you feel there are tools of public health that we fail to embrace powerfully enough putting aside the blame to international political leaders but within the public health arena, are there things that we look back and feel we should have done this, that and the other thing before we had madison? >> we definitely wasted a lot of time buy not recognizing how the presence or the prime minister's

capture could simply not even pronounced the word until the very end which is that means something. so the fact that the lack of willingness to deal with the issue it was in the category of sexually transmitted diseases. >> also moved later on he when it came to treatment, and i know that we in the government talk about that later but it was a public health community and was the biggest problem we have all these meetings. i think there will probably somewhat absurd activist demands, like i was shocked in atlanta there was a whole

campaign which i didn't fully understand. on the one hand it's true that because of the discrimination and the stigma that all we could offer was a - the sentence and then you would lose your job and insurance and so on. but i think that is prospectively we should have what can be done but you can't see public health for what's going on in society. >> but we have a kasich symbol, a tremendous victory come and it didn't catch on. it didn't go by role as we would say today. and that is tolerance. if you look at the late 1980's, the asian development bank has predicted thailand was going to collapse under the pressure. the 17 year old rickards into the military running as high as 3%. hiv-positive at the age of 17, and by the time they were 22 in

the military, the rate was way beyond that, and looked catastrophic. and if they had no tools accept condoms and they brought it completely under control. why didn't that become the model for the world. why did we all look at thailand as if it were this isolated case. >> i think that is a good example of why did it work in thailand because of the strong leadership and not worrying too much about public opinion and 100% condom promotion. it was enforced in a way, you know, with not only public health people but it was of course the preserve time which is worth billions of dollars. but it's something there was no willingness to do. even today you see an ad for condoms on primetime and tv. >> on mtv we do.

>> it is this double standard about sexual out with the and not wanting to deal with this. islamic even today the example doesn't resonate. >> but it's also published for example they are not dealing with gay men or injecting drug use and they don't want to go to the new e elections maza they were effective with the office of the prime minister and it's not the ultimate success and branding. >> i can't move on without giving you the opportunity for two of your most remarkable. first, an office if i remember

right was mahogany line and everything about it seemed like it's gone to oxford. there's a gentleman sitting expensive scotch and smoking a pipe coming and he's telling you great paranoid conspiracy theories. and you cannot we cannot. who is that gentleman and what did he cost african lives? the encounter in conversation he said don't you know this is a conspiracy that the western pharmaceutical companies and it's always been a mystery why such he some good things come strategic thinker could believe such a thing. and that has cost about 300,000

lives according to the study because it delayed the introduction of the antiretroviral therapy of the prevention of mother to child transmission in the country, and maybe also some neighboring country although the colleagues may be sometimes they will listen politely but they didn't follow. now today south africa house and the largest hiv treatment program in the world, and things have changed. but it's a tragedy. and it must be -- i don't know why. i really don't know. >> in a very different mood, you are with someone who seems like today's of rum follows the

description but an ample quality is consumed to discuss mandatory quarantines of hiv-positive people in cuba and this is with fidel castro. >> yes. i went to cuba in the early days for several reasons. one, there was the quarantine. most of the cubans with hiv or former soldiers in the military who were fighting in africa and can get infected with hiv and were long lockdown basically. and in a conversation with castro, human rights isn't something that is discussed, so we talked about it basically that it's not effective. that it doesn't work, and today what's happened in cuba is that when you are found to be hiv-positive can have to follow a six month course i don't know

if it is a few months ago in the case to prepare you for the drugs are there and then many people become hiv educators for the state employees it doesn't matter what they do. but the first time i met him it was in the middle of some kind of a tornado so i knew he was talking about how many leaders. how many liters per square meter and then also i said i came here to talk about aids and express my solidarity affected by the floods in cuba. >> and then they start talking about how many cases in jamaica, how many there and so on. and then anyway, despite the

fact that it had been the professor i have a hard time remembering these figures. and then he said okay so we went to the office. i just arrived from europe, jet lag. we don't drink water. okay, mojito. in a long story short, we ended up with he called and half of the government and the vice president and we had dinner and we talked a lot about all kinds of things. including the decline of the imminent decline of capitalism. >> well, i would like michele to

join us and as she is coming to this stage it's interesting, you end up deciding to go for the job of creating this new agency in the human called united nations aid program. it didn't even have a name and then that it's a new entity that is going to happen and there are two african colleagues that offer smart advice. kofi annan says the where the sea is full of sharks he's not the secretary-general of the u.n. at that time. >> go ahead. >> if you fall into the water [inaudible] [laughter] >> then he was at unicef at the time. >> was that advice when one?

>> [inaudible] >> was the story? >> i think the study [inaudible] -- the most important one is and they said okay, it is always working without moving ahead. so, it's very important to have an objective. they're in a very clear manner. if you don't have a good understanding and you don't put that in perspective, you will

never moved. the third one is if you understood that many of their objectives you try to make them always your target, but maybe one day they will not miss you. so it's important to really give some time and space for people to give you what they know so you can learn more. you have to be prudent in life, step by step and the fifth one is if you want one, just one second before that you never change the state. you have self control.

it's very important. you can do all of that and meet your objectives. the last one is adaptation. >> this is like the story of a kuny u.n. aids. the system as against you. the organization came to exist in and you described episode after episode, where either a major western donor or dillinger agency or a rival that should not have been in a rival agency representative for what you are trying to do. >> certainly for a number of agencies an exception. you gave me a hard time at the interview but -- [laughter]

>> she crossed him off her list. [laughter] >> we need a microphone. >> [inaudible] >> by this time [inaudible] of course the rest is history. but when you see there were several levels particular the mid-level management there were people like and unicef that told me we will do everything we can to undermine you and make sure this doesn't happen. in who come he was then the director-general and basically

he thought that in one year's time it would be we will just kill it. it's ridiculous to even talk about. when i was writing this i thought how is this possible? but to go beyond personality, there is indeed an issue which is very rich in terms of its diversity and different agencies and everybody is looking for money so there is a lot of that going on. and i don't think that is the solution. but i must also say it's with the most advanced best integrated. there is nothing that comes close as far as i can see.

>> so all one big happy family now? >> what is very difficult is what he is talking about. the other conflict is that people have to fight for their agenda there to make sure [inaudible] something very difficult. what i see now is we manage to be different beyond that agenda to identify and the key result area which is making us moving collectively together saying that for example it's so important [inaudible] we are not talking about unicef and others. we start working on how we can create and act together.

people coming from who and they were not understanding why this organization had been created and each organization must create their own agency. >> a giant battle. >> but i see the u.s. system around the very concrete outcome and deliverable scum and then it can move mountains and just concentrate on the process that is often the case particularly here in new york and is a waste of time for everybody. so that i think is the conclusion. the director of unicef -- and your body language tells me that you agree. [laughter] >> at this moment veggie 20 leaders are probably starting in

haiti is accomplishing very little. >> and also, at this moment in the rio and the are probably drinking and the plus 20 and there is little optimism for that meeting. we are in a moment where everything seems to pivot on the euro crisis. the amount of money on the table keeps shrinking. the sense of generosity is shrinking, and we have seen since 2008 with the financial crisis ever greater dependency on one source: the united states government, which i think now is about 60% of international support for hiv. what does this mean for do in terms of trying to coordinate a global response? >> they said that the world is changing and i believe that.

ten years ago when we were talking about this africa was nowhere. we were not talking about [inaudible] even the highest growth rate like 15%, 11%. we are not talking about china, brazil, key players in the new global government system. so, for me what's important today is what we are trying to push is to bring the shared responsibility. we cannot use the whole paradigm which we have been using until now. so what we are trying to push is to bring in different players. we are able to work with the chinese and the chinese now are paying for their own aids

response, which is very important. we have been working with india. india decided to pay for all of their response this year. so we are seeing south africa create 1.5 billion. so we are seeing what's coming in this response in different ways. and we need to push that. we need to make sure that of course it is built on social justice and the distribution of opportunity. that is critical because we would not be able to make it. it tells me that there is a treatment. >> how that can happe if we know that we have 9 million people waiting, we need innovation. so, i think with the new movement coming that is

important. and i know peter very well. my mentor is one of the best we will have and he has also a truth i'm not sure what he has been able to do for the world because today if we save millions of lives cat want to see that to the country by country today we have almost 7 million people. people move from millions to billions in terms of motivation demonstrating that solidarity from the collective solidarity. irresponsible to save lives of people. >> when you look at the index of this book it's only people.

anything and that was going wrong in any way of the world this is my personal. but what i wanted to show is that this is a movement, and there were so many people contributing and all equally was important also is that sometimes it looks like going into all directions to try to align you know where the politics and signs and programs on the ground are kind and supporting each other and that is when to be very important. the global fund for years from the programs in argentina and

mexico. there are countries that according to the projections 2030, 31 after the beginning of the epidemic would require like 4% or more of the gdp just on treatment cost to be a >> and we don't have to go to third line -- >> there is no way on earth that can be done without international help. but even poor countries there is in the case for the shared solidarity but also for the smarter use of our resources to reduce the nec let me ask you both the same question. i want to very quick answer so that we have time for the audience, and that is we are about to have the international aids conference in the united

states for the first time since 1990 in washington, d.c.. next month when we are in the most hotly contested presidential election we've seen can i don't know how long at this moment, most experts say you can't call who will be the next president of the united states. when the last time the aids community convened in washington, d.c., a publicly denounced a vice president, george bush, during the ronald reagan presidency and injured him so much that when he took over as president he said i don't want to hear about this stuff. get out of the room. if there is one message that the american people take from this upcoming conference and you have the ability to wave a magic wand to make it happen as opposed to many of their scenarios of what may very well happen, what with that message be?

>> coming from new york or washington conference a month just to say that it can be a missed opportunity to say to americans that they have an individual and collective effort to save the life of a million people, and that is not -- we cover this across an effort, and i said we have a sense of urgency that is brought by president bush kilby, completely changing all of our response, and then it's brought by their own shared responsibility, looking at the sustainability, ownership, or just the natural

movement which we need to share, and that i hope we are going to be able to and we need to hear that they have been saving a life for millions of people and we are making an effort to share the burden with others now and -- >> we are on the same line. i would say that taxpayers' money has saved millions of lives and has also can i think improved american image in the world to a large extent. a decrease in that effort now is not only going to cause millions of lives, but also i think what be stupid from a perspective. glitzy how our friends the

biggest problem i think the conference may beef cow deutsch american aids activists -- that is i think within this challenge is a good note to take questions from the audience you raise your hand and wait until the microphone reaches you and please be sure to identify yourself and give us a real question if you can come down the front, robert martin from the rockefeller foundation to that i would agree that it's definitely going to inspire the next generation. the second question is at one point in the book i think it's towards the end when you are

leaving you have something like an oscar schindler moment where you think i could have done more or could have done things differently. the question is if you could go back and redo the last ten or 15 years what would you do differently if anything? >> one is that the world is becoming a very global place, so there's a great future i think in working in global health. don't plan your career in detail you will miss the great opportunities. i can't imagine that i would ever become a bureaucrat or discover but be prepared. invest in your training and skills and all that so you can see these opportunities. there are many faults that are

there that people don't go through them even if you don't know what is behind, so take some risks. now, what would i have done differently? ai thanks probably politicize faster when i certainly was quite 95 would say that in thinking you have the evidence this is going to change everything and of course that was not the case and i should have brought it earlier to that kind of the political agenda but maybe it was not possible. i think that is probably the biggest -- i don't know. i think what they're could i have accelerated is also slow, but on the one hand i have no patience with things and on the

other hand i really don't know. >> right here. gary. stand up, please. >> so, a question for both michelle and peter. in my more recent troubles in sub-saharan africa working with the interested people from the cdc and elsewhere who were fighting this battle, you get the sense that we are at a turning point. i don't know if it is quite a tipping point, but the success of the concept of the aids free generation for the final suppression time getting a clear sense of signs of encouragement the end point if you will could be in sight for the first time making this a particularly critical time to make sure that momentum is not lost. first question is would you agree with that characterization and the second question is what could help drive that moment come forward and what could risk

it? >> i think it is a very good point, you know for me getting to zero is my vision. of course it means nothing but it is a vision for making society more inclusive. to say we don't discriminate people based on their race or their sexual orientation or their social status. and we can get it and seeing the progress every single day. when i decided to push for this i think by 2015 supporting me very strongly by 2015 we don't need to have babies born with

hiv. from where we would get that. today we are seeing it again i would share this number with you from last year to this year decreased by 100,000, 100,000 members of these which were borne by hiv compared to this year. we are seeing also an increase in the members of people in this crisis. we're seeing in the momentum shrink that if we put people early on treatment we can reduce by 96% of the new numbers of for me i am seeing hope and i want to push for these ideas of getting to zero. we can be there if we work together and and very different constituencies. for me it is time to really

bring this new approach, and because it would be a missed opportunity if we don't do that. >> i agree with the vision to speak because we cannot accept anything less that i also think we need to be prepared for decades of investments and offered continued starting with people who are now one anti-- antiretroviral therapies and for the normal life expectancy so we need to be prepared for that. that's -- and i think we are not prepared for that. >> we're seeing a drug resistance already. estimate the pipeline of new drugs and the generic manufacturers are pulling out.

>> it's great in terms of units that can be sold. also in terms of prevention. as a, i think we need to have an ambitious vision but also, we need to -- we should not -- we need to be prepared for this longer-term effort. but dalia agreed that there is kind of a momentum there where we see i think a return of the investments of the past decade basically because these things don't happen overnight. >> i think i agree with peter. we need to be able to manage a response for long term but what we need to do nellis change completely our way to deal with innovation. of the kind of innovation we have today we wouldn't be able to still offer. it's impossible for me to believe. if you had it everywhere and so

the simplification, like i said in my letter to the partner in greenville and red pill, one kill a day and asking us to go now how can groups look after to simplify. estimates of possible. today let me give you one example just to make sure that people are waiting for treatment to make them shaping the treatment would cost $700 million. and more so are not working in the difficult environment in australia and they are trying to today in malawi was 1 dollar

[inaudible] for me i'm looking for a good side of innovation to shift to the tasks. very important interface and the provider and the community. if we don't have a shipment and innovation. and i should clarify the they are a human immune system does a very specifically targeted by the hiv virus and as the account goes down, you are clearly headed towards a six stage of the disease. i think we have time for at least one more question. i think i saw the international back here.

>> thanks, laurie. from family care international i wanted to ask if you could comment specifically what you see as the party of the trends and the possibilities which is the region where the problem with hiv is most severe in terms of population, and in particular looking at it from the perspective of this long term potential, and the question of what is the most strategic approach in terms of dealing with hiv/aids has more less of a vertical issue or integrating it with the provision of basic health services, reproductive maternal and child health services looking at the issue coming down. what uzi is the most appropriate strategy dealing with this in africa. >> i think i built on what peter did. when we were working together it was very important to bring that

development issue. but since that, what i tried to push is to take out of the regulation and i think that is not possible anymore to deal with aids. we need to look at the protection. you are talking about hiv if you take africa one is. the issues of positioning making so that women could get other information on the reproductive health so we could have morals [inaudible] one will be [inaudible]

i think all human rights issues are making mainstream can society and how we address the man right issue for their sexual orientation and education to make sure that young the people are a cut with the skills, and i would go for the major challenge. of course this means katibat for me is a social change which we need to address. >> here is the final word. >> i think also there are many africans, so it is going to be

important that we customize what we do to each society. and that is something that is a big challenge for any global movement, any fool will not help so we tend to have a bunch of experts come together and that is good defensive practice that is how any customer oriented company works the consumer oriented company and so we need also a final analysis of local and then provide the menu although as you mentioned [inaudible] in kabul incidents, two, three, 4% per year of young women become hiv-positive you need an all-out effort. there is nothing more important. countries like mali, hiv problem

is lower than in new york city to the and you need to fully integrate and do it in a different way. >> that is also a lesson in the global community. >> well, i want to thank peter for writing no time to lose and peter for joining us here at the council on foreign relations today. thank you very much. [applause] >> is the ring on fiction book or offer much you would like to see feature on booktv send an e-mail at book tv@c-span.org or twittered at twitter dhaka,/book tv. >> here's a look at some of coming back shares and festivals happening around the country. the of land journal constitution's book festival will take place august 31st to succumb second

how old was she when shesel?

killed herself?was 26. >> she was 26. >> why did she kill herself? elf? >> she killed herself becauseof well, what we know is if shekno left a suicide notes that said distraught over her husband's philandering so that was the immediate cause. >> host: and the was the president grandfather stanley dunham's grandmother. >> guest: she lived only to be 26 and because of that dramatic, stanley and his older brother moved back to old eldorado and a character named christopher columbus clark that fought in the civil war. >> host: where did the grandparents meet? >> guest: they met in augusta which is about 12 or 15 miles away both in butler county sort of on the way to wichita and that is where she grew up.

stand had already been out of high school for several years and matalin was a senior in high school. he was working in construction and renovation and that's where he met her. >> host: what was that life like in kansas? >> guest: their life before or after? after they are married it was sort of her parents didn't really like him or the first thing that her father had was dark skinned and an element of race even in that and she married him secretly before she ridgely the from high school she was a very smart young woman who had always been on the honor roll until she met stanley who was slick talking out of arkansas, kansas, and sorry, and that's what she wanted.

she had grown and the sophistication of hollywood and stan promised something else he promised to take her back there and then they are somewhat unstable. not the marriage was necessarily on stable but the jobs were always unstable and they never knew where they were going next said it was a rocky road. >> host: where did the obama clan began? >> guest: it began actually in sudan. i would start the story in the small village by lake victoria to the south and east of the major city in the province which was a very poor part of kenya.

it's where the little tribe is basically center the second referred largest tribe in africa and the about where the obama's found themselves. >> host: on the president's paternal side where the grandparents? >> guest: he was born in the late 1800's and was in the first wave to be westernized they had come out and he learned english and became sort of inculcated into the british culture so he worked later as a chef and cut for many british military people

and folks in nairobi and the mother came from another village in tha area, and she did not -- he was a very difficult guy to live with. he had several why of this and when he moved to the area near where she grew up it was back to another home state of the clan around lake victoria. she had enough. she had a younger wife along with him and so she ran away. she left the family when barack obama, the president's father was a very little boy. >> david maraniss his grandparents died in 2006.

did president obama ever meet him? >> guest: no, he never met after the 1980's after his grandfather had died. aside from the very early days of his birth but he didn't get back to kenya until both of his grandparents were gone so there's a dramatic difference in that part of the story. >> for barack obama the story how many interviews did you do over the course of the last four years? >> guest: i would say almost 400, and i had a wonderful assistant who helped with some of the leader interviews in the story but i traveled all over the world and so everybody could find in every part of the life of president obama and his parents and grandparents.

>> host: barack obama sr. was born in 1936. what was his childhood like? >> guest: from a fairly early age he was dealing with western culture in the british. he was a very smart kid. his father was difficult to get along with and was not often there mostly in the nairobi and he was growing up. he was lucky in the sense that he was smart enough to get into a very good school in that area, and although he never totally finished he was a very smart student. they had that clash of old and new. for all of his youth and adolescence he was in a colonial

country in a very poor part of the kenya, so he lived in the mud huts with cowles and no television and stuff like that. a century behind in some ways and get kenya was starting to emerge. the rebellion was beginning, the push for independence was beginning and the generalization he was a part of that. >> host: how long were you in kenya and what did you see? what was it like to be over there? >> guest: kenya was one of the great experiences of my life. every day was unforgettable. we were there for about two