published because he withdrew from the race. because of the book i could write to "wealth and poverty" so rapidly. it to really originated in the book i wrote for george romney. after writing "wealth and poverty" one of the first people that asked me to speak was paid and company a great force on the supply side providing the macroeconomics the learning curve and the fact lower-priced is expand market share leading to lower cost and more prosperity both for the

government and lower tax rates the the into more revenues for the government and less struggles over government favors. >> host: we're talking with george gilder author of a new edition of "wealth and poverty" that came out in their early eighties. this is booktv on c-span2. low-up to his book "how capitalism will save us." this is half an hour. >> joining us on booktv is a magazine publisher, politician, and frequent author, steve out who newess >> host: we have magazine ar

publisher, politician and frequent author steve forbes whose newest book is called freedom manifesto why free-market our moral and big government is sent to. we are at freedomfest where mr. forbes is speaking.stat what it is an example? >> we make the emphasis is big government as defined by james madison but does the b opposite of what it purportse to do we have possibility tondsc get ahead and crony capitalism herds entreprenuership of theale thin things the government says it does to take the rough edges to major they go on

the right direction does the opposite their short-term oriented. they have their own agenda with special interest groups. the bigger they get them more harm say do and the less chance toh prove youre youe lot in life. >> host: morality is a part of capitalism? >> hold basis of capitalism based on values and needs to p people.bu other than being fell one sr rubbing their hands at theothrs, others even though you lust d for money you have to give avida product service somebody once. oer you have to have cooperation.

and have people work withon't su you and persuade people to buy what you are offering. anyone can do anything but it breaks barrierscc between the ethnic groups which it granted when you start aple business and you get the best people possible. ny that is a recent phenomenon.ami. that is just a newoup wereour phenomenon. than bling host: how would youuld describe the americanu capitalist system today? closer to socialist yourtes of ?

free market system? >> this is why we did the book. we're added true juncture. with those capabilities and attributes and for the 200 dthis years the why the huge growth of government is not just just about gdp but creates i dependence then dole's your sense to solve problems. to rehab free-market its to ever wihance to get ahead to breakdown barriers and rriers enable, people to realize their dreams horror the waitu g for the government to give you something like you seeli

in europe? where does the dynamism come from? free markets engender trust had remake congress get richard? paypal and things that enable people to do more.what ir what is the problem and how at is do we solve it?hed steve jobs and touch to such accord when he died becausely se people since he was driven by dreams doing things thatingsa allped him but to enrich the lives and of people aroundd. >> yworld of government could not do that. i >> host: did governments for most concerned list withma its own one bureaucratic ter wo interest. >> one historian of serve tonavy

something with the british navy. however the agency running the navy increased in size.rgant he can up with the organization's expand with t the amount of work they have wi nothing to do widthshe midsize.go their main thing is theirng is n own bureaucratic interestn natuo for human nature to expandwhy te why they are created to become self word interest and in returning but if you have a complement to that does that you cease to

exist. >> host: if you are the president is it zero-based budgeting? >> more than that but the environment for entreprenuership to flourish. talking about degrading the value of the dollar butist it coercion.u suddenly the government takes resources from you toisrut disrupts the contacts that and you make.dn't ride rehab these derivativesde rom wall street?excange chronic instability you have to hedge. with trading opportunities. a huge cost driving peoplehe into the hard assets. that is what government has

to get away from. imaginative "60 minutes" changed each day. you 1/2 to have futures derivatives. hiring somebody $15 per hour os that it bangladesh hour?sh arizona our you haven't ing to h industryav figuring it out. then simplify the tax code c that is a huge source of power. power simplify its but you can do productive productive things. spent day is that it is not a manna from heaven but it comes from new that is not a

stimulus. it is waste. >> would you like to see no floating currency? bit at i would like to see it as the table saying created it. it provided stability and values 16 ounces in a pound. that doesn't restrict in money-supply the money supply stays stagnant but ifh you make a contract to yearshe e ago the value will be the yearsw same as it is today . we make an investment it ishe the future stream of encumber go if you buy pace

instment book shares in mid don'tn know what the dollar will be worth some $100? $120? so it stagnates. government creates the si environment don't go on the m spending binge -- binge ort trye try to run the economy. >> host: you have been preaching this manifesto for many years. av why are we still talking about it? n> good question. thatstio we ask after the terrible decade of the 1970's. and huge series on rds? television and it makes the has

free market reform. this gets to something not understood they are not inherently unstable every crisis at the origins has massive government airs but free enterprise is gets the blame.re talk about the tariff andward s. the world and a downward spiral they deepen the depression it was government. when the federal preserve dollard to print to many dollars yous get the housingame bobble that could not havethat t happened to it is the evi ld not bankers that is why government grows out we're

here to help we have to increase our power also with the compassion card. it is for children. and education. they go on the moral defensive. it is not that they work iff people feel it is corruptsr awa. it swill with their way and it will buy.s it is precisely because it is on morality.cause you don't make theout the f investment if you thinkhe's there isn't a future usem. think if you lose everythingso y it may work that is faith in the future why you get to income that kind of optimism.

>> host: it is in "freedomrortya manifesto" there is of cigarette tax, corporate income-tax, dog license tax efficient license, iras penalties, liquor tax, a luxury tax, a marriage license, property, real-esta te tax and i am editing as igo, ozal sel curity tax, agistn trailer registration, utility watercraft, etc., etc..y did you why did you include this list and "freedom manifesto" the? >> it is taxed creep andecause i governmentt coercion almost everything you do get somestve tax. you get up in the morning and turn on the electricity.d to look at then utility bill. fifth sales tax.6 wh

gasoline tax on the way to work. that does not include the upcoming taxes on medical devices with obamacare. you can expand that. everything you do get its taxed reduces freedomedto and. >> host: you talk about tax withholding we don't think of that as being hours inw >> that came ruled were to we just paid that once a year. but wartime when everybody evs is this brought 10 how do collect? t half the population saveswhy noe

during the years of the executive mac is says we have layaway put a certain amount of side. why not for the income-tax? so each paycheck it is a fonvenience.e,s is but then it numbs you to what you are getting. the first kid with theirsed part-time job.is. when what is fica? stuff? people think they are savinghena money with the refund from the irs. of >> host: and can you eliminate withholding? >> theoretically. that is why you go to the simplified attacks system. generous rate on a single sheet of paper.

since 1986 when retry aid to louis simplified there have been 14,000 changes. it brings out the worst in us as a people doing get 10% or 20%? it is corrosive throw the whole thing out bring in thend flat tax. it is a single rate.e the you have the withholding 25done countries has done it.e rateompa get more growth with lessless political corruption. >> host: as a business owner what resources totexes devote to your corporate taxes with the regulation

part? >> on the personal side is huge with tax preparation and dealing with the state filings it is mind-boggling. for what purpose? thirty-five years ago i could do my own tax return. i cannot now. etax retu. i would not even attempt it now with the crazy calculations. we tried to make the casemakets morality comes from the free-marketnt spark out government is not the moral equivalence but in becauses imml it goes against the very thing ths more pessimistic is and optimistic about the year and now and lobbying. lie that is why you have to make

the case. when you get negative brief period of prosperity. people don't stabilize the economy then make get to a crisis and the leviathan gets bigger.rav we have to occupy a high moral ground hog to enhancepl the sense of humanity in amanit way that we don't realize. gollto think they mean well. know they don't to.being. >> host: and free them manifesto talk about aany, whics capital one is a political2012 n issue what is your take? >> is this extraordinary

creativity of capitalhey markets. why do we create some many new companies from western europe or japan? the reason is the diversity of our capital markets. bain capital gives good returns public pension funds are the biggest it is oury to ability to get things to enable us to get 50% higher growth rate. look at europe. take the american bank 1.4 trillion dollars.number is with europe it is

6 trillion. that mes is t hhose but have commercial paper merisel the one in europe but that means it europe is top heavy with the ar bank.e that wha you don't have the been sure capital history. so it is part of a bigmpa. company year have beenge microsoft and apple. ok a look what was emerging er charles schwab and fedex anddexd others capital system could c nurture them. largest europe grows at 2% we grow a

at 3.5 because we have the ability of capital markets to adjust. then may get the new instruments that come in and that tried to make money off of it it is not needed anymore. >> host: is it time to endmon the post office monopoly?head o >> and there have been ahead of us.fice. fedex symbolizes the creativity of delivering neweffg ways to be efficient.rvice the post office of symbolizes sluggish dosservice and we should privatize s in a way peoplehe

still get a magazine but with technology take a hand-held. the is something government cannot do. having about 40 minutes of battery life the. >> did you have one? goveo. but if government was involved it would still lownd st have 40 minutes and costd be $9,000 but today there arewold. 5 billion in the world youel have a cellphone to do your banking and medical services. heather hand-held computers. thsimple o the simple ones are the giveaways cost of creativity and innovation.coffee sp,

even simple things if you go to lou the starbucks 12-ounce, 16, 20-ounce but the lid is the same size so they don't have a differentle tg inventory. in this that is what happens. th is re that is morality constantly happening that is the glory.ng. we don't realize what the the system is.is >> host: this is your second book "freedomcoming on au manifesto" coming out also how capitalism will save us. >> elisabeth worked with us in the 1990's with public relations worked with radio

scripps sheet understands capitalism and also helped with the flat tax revolution bubka. she has the ability and the knowledge.axefo 97 1/8 a flat tax has to go through the legislative process.r what about the debate they are where are not having about economic matters? >> most people recognize wemost have to simplify it but tow the simpsonas bowlesion. commission appointed by thes president the democrats saigon of simplicity to reduce the tax rates across the board.onept. ninth as far as the flat

tax -- flat tax but grasped the concept with fundamental reform. after the election i think there will be the ability to get things done a potent minority realize these things have to be done. i am optimistic. i think romney will win the election but with entitlement and also of to shoot grandma's a she does, shot not take more medicare they are positiveke reform there ar mentioning cellphones slighof cn can we get back to that care? creativity with health care?n tf cheaper health care with of sensible safety net?

government doesn't run in agriculture. but in terms of food and to deliver the food, casinos and restaurants and supermarkets who sell the t food thenhe they have foodg frof banks.we d th why can't we do the same to st get the free-market?me goingn i live in new jersey. we have crazy regulation.gulatin i can buy it half the price but it is a legal for me to do it. be i can open up in nationwide shopping to get companiesanies competing. it, it puts the patient in

charge to come up with more availability of health insurance. that is the spirit. government kills creativity and abundance when it steve hes said about marketing said people don'ta m want -- know what they want until we show them.peanutr and not just more period but iran jelly sandwich but sh showing you what you did not ne. know that you needed.gs that ary what this scarce but unlike flat screen televisionye 15,000 now $500.uld you willi those glory of productivity.

>> host: go back would adp willing to pay more taxes? and do you pay enough today? >> i pay enough. one of the things we point* out is the top earners in this country pay more income tax proportionately than anyd other industrialized country.i the key saying it is whene the system to encourage more creativity's of zero of the government collects more. mr those that have a low taxpaniesw rate system collect more revenue than those with high tax rate. fried up the moral