he completely understands the brain and have that will then help us create new technology. >> we have been talking with carolyn kohlberg. >> up next, former north chicago superintendent of schools presents her thoughts on how to improve the american educational system. >> first i think the business leaders for allowing me to share my visit -- vacation and education. i also want to recognize some of the groups or organizations that i provide service and support for.

a veteran leak, the national association for the mentally ill. thanks for being here. i am the author of are you in a pickle. the first college graduate from high in the family. when i was in high school i was packed into a general class. i was trapped on the basis of what my parents did or did not to and on the basis of race. an extremely passionate about assuring every student and every

classroom and every school across america has an opportunity to be successful, have choices. how many of you have children in school? education is your business. education is your business because a substantial amount of tax dollars go to public education. education is your business because we prepare porkers. we prepare them for you. right now almost half the students who go to higher education as well as the bulwark of reported as not being ready for the real world. there's something we can do about a, but i think first of

all we really need to recognize that educators have challenges in front of. the foreclosure, the joblessness , we her in a recession. some say that we're headed back to sputnik. others the we are headed back toward the great depression. all of these factors impacting education. when you reconcile your books at the end of the month, when you balance your books but you also feel the impact. in order to have a stronger economy we have to have a strong education, strong education equals a stronger economy and an impact all of us. today we're going to talk about some of the challenges and also

will begin do about it. education is a business. taxman need to face. 30 percent of students troppo school. 30 percent. the united states ranks number ten in terms of industrialized nations and college completion. now, with more students being poor and with higher education as well as high schools students not being prepared, how does that impact estimate why is the drawbar read so,? is it because we are grilling make school rigorous enough? are we not challenge students? maybe when not making it relevant for the real world experiences.

listen to this. just maybe we're underestimating the value of relationships. when you asked secondary teachers with the problem is what you think they say? a day. it is money, but they're going to buy -- >> usually blame the parents or the environment. >> they're going to buy her only child of an elementary. that's just what we do. we plan early childhood and elementary education. think about this. forty-six many people are classified as poor. 52 percent of adults 18 and over and not married.

early childhood, elementary. who do you think the blinking. parents. and, think about it. we do know that dependent on a socioeconomic levels students come to us in various levels. the big difference between the low or socioeconomic status our's is the highest. these at the experiences that students come with about. he think parents plan to. >> the school. >> that's a good answer. remember, 52 percent of families

18 and over are not married. and the gap persists. the same game. in the meantime we are hurting. education is the only profession that i know other than politics. we blame one another. it's the rich versus the poor. wafers is black, yellow versus brown, male versus female. the beat goes on one thing that i'm very proud to say is that ir myself a teacher.

at think many times we forget what it feels like. we'll lacking in terms of providing the support that is needed for success failing to incorporate critical thinking skills, problem-solving, skills that students will need in a real-world in order to be successful, evidence based proof point, student performance can be improved. these are some of the solutions of what i bring to the table. actually been a teacher, principal. i've been a superintendent, and i am proud to say that i have never been in the classroom, school, or a district where student performance did not significantly improve, and that's what a share in a boat. the answer is listed.

what it takes, everything from specific skills, tactics, techniques to partnership the really make a difference. before i go any further, one of the things i noticed that we do in education, we forget to ask the students, and the students have the answer. >> it's just warming of. >> no, this is university of texas.

>> it's not working. >> you take my word for it. you know what, there is nothing

like hearing it from the students themselves. the frigate to do that. with the students say, you are challenging. you are allowing them to be created. many educators today, we grew up with typewriters. it using wi-fi, technology. many of them said they never even have an opportunity to read a book. maybe we are providing the support and the training that we need for the 21st century. in education with a slew of the chain's. with all the facts are presented before you. with all of the changes that uc,

winners of to change and education. okay. in terms of solution one of them . as a look at partnerships most disguised partnerships as one way receiving. think about it will. we are in a recession. large budget cuts. why aren't really looking at true partnerships? and when a senate, integration with businesses, child care,

public schools, were forced, all coming together and providing indigent children and families with a full day's high of care and no expense. what would that mean? men have more students actually prepare for school. we'd have more fans involved . with the new executive order them aside i expect to see more and this is on partnership. even the partnership with education is a noble thing to do , what's in it for you? credibility and exposure. credibility of the website, credibility had meetings,

word-of-mouth among newsletters, press releases, credibility and exposure means more traffic. right now now working, the one way giving and receiving is not going to work, now with the real needs we have. sometimes we forget how powerful words are. words to make is live, because crime, rich can be humid all words can make us want to hurt someone . if you doubt what i'm saying think about it.

what emotions,. our students are real and of words that we use kent and it build or killer rendition common vocabulary, would it be colorful in every field of business if he had your own vocabulary. the texas education agency, i swear the first month i didn't know what to say. the reusing all acronyms. untested get. and realized i could understand will my kids are saying. it transferred over. the vocabulary, think about. one of the most powerful words in your profession. right now or to focus on education.

at your table when you to come up with another word thank you think would be powerful so that regardless of what he put it from a vested them know what to do because they knew what it means.

[background noises] >> what did you come up with? >> we got it. >> all right. and you're ready? >> yes, we came up with the word create. [inaudible] >> good answer. >> okay.

[laughter] >> we came up with think creatively. we did not expound upon a. >> okay. >> they came up with. [inaudible] which led to options and process so that they can break it apart. >> we came up with create, similar to the other table. without about the whole implementation peace. don't talk about it, but the about it. >> well, they're your. create, design, 4 million. that cannot quite a bit.

these are the words the students need to know in order to be successful. think about it. i'm not just talking about putting it in front of them. you probably even have another column with a put it in their own words. were not only talking about the class from the school. how could it become a school -wide, district-wide initiative. you have to create the environment for learning. i use what i call the pad model. ten years ago this aggregation the day, breaking it down by race, gender, socioeconomic status and in order to do that you need a continuous learning model. you need to change the system. so pretest, access, analyze,

teach, and support in order to sustain the success. now, whatever business you're in is in did you also assess, analyze, plan, and execute. it's not that different in education. the global achievement gap, critical thinking and problem solving. if we did more than it really wouldn't matter what assessment you put in for a student because they're going to do well. the new head of think, solve problems, and as the stretch is it going to be the real. also, curiosity, imagination, creativity. we don't to enough of that. so is going to make the next convention if we don't teach that in school and allow them

the opportunity. my vision is that every child in every classroom will be successful. what i want you to do it this points, what you to stand out, stop eating your dessert. stand up for a moment. it's really not about me. it's about us. all of us together and better than anyone of us alone. a just want you to think for my. what do you have to offer? what can you contribute? we all have something. not going to start off and the largest going to go round.

and dr. patricia pickle, the author of "are you in a pickle?" . lessons learned along the way. >> abcaeight. i am -- i have a number of years working in business. and the business consultants. i think there are a couple things i can share. communication skills. i saw the slide one of the things you have up was oral and written communication. at income pretty good communicator.

the second thing i could share with students and colleagues is i spent a lot of years interviewing people. i can teach people to get jobs. >> i'm a volunteer with the league of women voters of the austin area. help bring together a community conversation about public education. their business people in the room as well as educators and policymakers as well as parents and people from all sectors in our community. we were focused on what we can did to make education better.

that conversation is ongoing. >> i'm a retired university in decatur. i have expertise in the assessment of learning and planning programs. >> jim walsh, a lawyer here in austin. handy a opportunity to speak to educators to the woodward are spoken word every day and influence and positively. >> my background is health care under the state. help students with a strong work ethic and the benefit of helping others. >> we support quite a few nonprofits. for instance, by austin, we provide free educational opportunities there for people

to learn about the error. >> reminded joe a skill owner of a publishing company the communicate the school of administrators throughout texas and beyond. as a parent, especially in a 15 and will, i can every day help each of them learned. nothing can role as one that probably each of us can do to some degree. >> tech and the doe will concern . i worked in the corporate world, real estate, and education. at think i have lived in and out of both of those worlds. at think it's very important to teach not only people in education but children that they

can grow a and basically do anything they want to if they have the skills to take with them. they can maneuver their way between different fields and aryans mothers always the door from one. teach them how to the resilience in today's hard economic times. >> pin afternoon. as a parent i had observed them we're not preparing her students were children to compete on the global market. i really would like to see more anor in science, math, technology, and engineering. also, as a retired educator and

had prepared myselfor a second career. that is as in any -- and consultants. most people did not know how to put their best foot forward and present themselves in a professional way. >> had been in purchasing management for about 30 years. i guess the art of negotiation. uribe du a win-win situation ine post walk away from the table feeling could .

>> i titters second graders in reading >> have a background in english and communication. i can help young women and men to use the love of literature and the written word to build that creativity. >> and david bailey. for years at west point in seven years in the military. >> mine -- marketing, service company here. what i enjoy the best is working with start-ups. a lot of common sense issues that,. i think he can talk math, different subjects like that.

that type of knowledge. students need to know from the early years how it works and how it impacts the leaders also. >> on a certified public accountant and a mother of a high schooler and former ptl president. i can share involvement in town and education as well as being a former economically disadvantaged students. >> we're in the business of helping our communities achieve their goals. that's what we do. >> expanding security. i teach five days a week to technology,. air tran to challenge other instructors to be better and giving them new and creative ways to educate students and post them to the next level. >> thinking.

[laughter] >> the gem of educators is to prepare students for the world of work, higher education with the military. the challenges agree, but the opportunity is even greater. together we can make a difference, and it can start right now. when i think of education i think of opportunity, hope, and i think of partnership. the journey can begin right now right here today, and we have already proven that. what lies within nasa's greater than any challenge may face.

before you leave here today and one each to shape the person's hand to your left after you finish your desert and to your right and that the journey of partnerships begin today. .. >> to say more about the culture that is required in schools for

maximum success. >> the culture -- a tactic that the vocabulary, the words we use. i call it power attack and it's been positive. it is watching what you say, modern but she stayed. and the book i gave specific examples of language we use now. i got the words from educators. bro were three is now versus what we could be using because every time we communicate could always send a message and communication is more than reading and writing. it is about what she's saying but you don't pay. it is about your body language. it is the culture, it is rich, but you're all so supportive of one another. when you go to the doctor, for instance, one of the biggest myths about education that we don't share with parents his assessment versus testing.

when you go to the doctor, what is the first thing he does? asks you questions, take your temperature, take your blood pressure. why? by deceit do these things? [inaudible] for determination. so for rss and versus teaching. teaching is like a diagnosis. teaching is remediation. so all students can reach the benchmark. we are talking about the highest score for standardized testing. were talking about benchmarks. all students should reach benchmarks necessary to be successful in the real world. so the culture is positive. the culture is supportive.

i know it's popular among some now to put down with teachers, but i think we need recessional development to support them. i think we need walkers on an ongoing basis in providing feed back. have you ever worked for anyone who didn't necessarily care for her? or higher education, a teacher that she did not have a relationship or, do you notice how hard it is to learn? all of that is a significant part of learning. i talk about real examples of good experiences with teachers versus one that was not so good right there in the same school. i talk about the impact of men. i've always prior to myself on being able to relate that students on the right page. there is one student that stands

out. this is an exemplary school, but one student stands out in my mind. and i couldn't look at that because then the students would think they could. i didn't know what to do because the matter but i tried it didn't work i called the gentleman at the ymca. him showing up in his behavior changed. ever since then i involve more men. i talk about how to get more men involved in education. right now a child can go through school and not even have a male teacher in elementary. and then we wonder, why did they act up? whited misbehaves? maybe they are looking at education as being feminine. maybe we need to read more instead of playing ball. third different ways of building the culture. yes.

my question to you is this, if you had to do it all over again and be superintendent of the school all over again, how would you approach training for teachers? overall and it tasted so this type of culture of involving the parents, involving the community, involving one another's spouses and bring in a world of experience from the outside and involving the business world and what we do in schools changes, what would she put in place? >> i actually did for professional development in place that impact did the students. it wasn't just professional development. it impacted the students. may give you an example. when we receive test data, which

we usually do? we look at it. we go a little deep or, having teachers slickedit. but have you ever thought about what it would mean to separate the studio one-on-one or in a small group? and i mean everyone in the school, the principal assistant principal, cancer, library and you they are taking in it. that is how you developed the culture of learning when they see everyone is invested in an. and it makes a difference. so one ratio -- i didn't have an issue with it, but others may have felt challenged by. when you bring schools to exemplary and students are making significant achievements, whether it's the superintendent race principle, my proud this post on a, you can't expect to

have an exemplary school amid tweeter teachers second class. so i put myself on the line and i would read it. i'll take them to the best restaurant. i would fly them to new york for cutting-edge staff development. you can't exempt them to yield extraordinary results and then treat them like they're not worth the investment. any other questions? >> so i have two boys. i have a 1-year-old and a two -month-old. it seems to me this state starts school, kindergarten or five. at times it seems there can be an age gap between a student

whose parents have focused solely on then reading, writing, singing to them and the other parent who works three jobs and is trying to get by and doesn't spend any time with their kids. so wouldn't it be -- what is your take on having something until earlier, with smaller groups come into it there is not such a gap to start off with. because of a startup that the gap, teachers have to teach down to those levels and that is syndicated and have parents are acting up and are not learning. what do you think of an earlier start time? >> i'll give you one example in terms of partnering for the early start time. no expense to parents, but it has stayed integrating services and coming together. i think there needs to be more professional development and training, opportunities for

parents. because even if they don't have the time, very techniques they can use. for instance, label everything in their house -- [inaudible] >> i think i may go back something i heard at this table. find out what they care about. everyone needs some dainty care about. it only takes one person. may not be prepared, but everyone needs someone that cares about them and it's to make a difference. i remember a kindergartner who i thought he didn't know his way home. unless they did more investigating i found out he didn't really want to go home because his parents were alcoholics. you have to find out what they care about.

i really miss young people because you have an opportunity to mold and shape young minds so they can be active participants in society. but it also means knowing who they are, knowing dennis people and understanding growth process. as a principle, i thought it was cute. of course a discipline that when two boys got in a fight over me. ideal back [laughter] now, i never forgot them. i didn't realize how much the students are doing for me. i never forgot them. when they were in third grade i went back to sleep and thinking they would be all over me. by that time, you know how boys are. so they weren't all over me. that was a lesson for me. i'm pouring my heart out and

they like don't be around me right now. it's making that connection, understanding. you find out so much. i found out that some parent -- not that they don't care. i didn't know his mother was in a wheelchair, that she couldn't walk. there's just certain things you find out. i remember in high school when my students pulling me aside in vain, don't be tagging and stuff like that are not my friend. so it takes just one person to believe, to believe in you. that day, just one. >> okay. [applause]

>> here's a look at books being published this week:

>> up next on booktv, transcendent talks about "a question of freedom" come his members serving an eight-year prison sentence for carjacking at the age of 16. this is about an hour 15

minutes. >> , redoing? let me ask you this question to start out with. several i know you name several times throughout the book, how is it to be called quite >> duane is fine.ing like y >> duane, i'm honored to be interviewing someone like you.lt there's powerful stories and manufacture lies in the way your articulate and the wayctic youot describe asking, what motivated you to write the your book? >> so two things just in case somebody in the audience doesn't know why i'm -- my name is reginald dwayne betts and at the start of it. i'm named after my father, but

everybody calls me dwayne. aisle get into why they called me that in prison. i was incarcerated far carjacking. i did eight and a half years in prison. and your question was, what motivated me to write my book. what makes your book different from any other books out there about prison and inmates. >> the interesting thing i was i had been arrested when i was 16. never committed a crime. i had a gun, it was my first time ever having a done. you know how you hear the stories in the first time somebody did x for the first time and you don't believe it. i didn't believe my own story. i knew i could have committed a crime of this nature. it was the only crime i ever committed. then i thought how do you explain it to yourself but how

would i go about explaining it to my mom and the rest of my family. and particularly, in light of the fact that i had been a reader before i had been incarcerated. i had read books about prison and people like i've never heard of. and also, i had just thought of incarceration and what it meant to the black community before committing my crime. and so, i decided i wanted to be a writer while i was in prison. and part of of the impulse was to write as means of finding an explanation to my own. when i got the opportunity to write the book, that was the main reason why i wanted to write the book, also, you know what i found different is every book that i can name and think of about prison, sort of has the natural prisoner's life. it's typically before prison,

during prison, and after prison. you get a good feeling about the person that committed the crime. they did something that is credible to to get to the place to write the book. if '02 you're feeling something good about --ic you stop think abouting when it means to be in prison and the justice system and what it means to the country. i wanted to write a book a that what it meant to be a juvenile in prison. and two, i wanted the book to essentially end with me just leaving prison, you had no idea what would happen to me. because i had no idea what would happen to me inspect in that way totally being a focus on my it could start a conversation the role of the justice system and the variation communities. >> one of the things you mentioned you were 16 when you caught your case, am i correct. >> 16 years old. juvenile. and it would have been charged a

adult life sentence. something that i believe took from your book and even hearing you now and my conversation that we had the other day. you have policies that affect juveniles and affect adults and the policy makers are not necessarily people like you or myself. say that because, again, being in the same -- walk in the same shoes you walk in the past, you know, i could relate to a lot of stuff that i read. my point is that often, the stories that i shared by a lot of people that have been in the prison system are not necessarily echoed in a positive way. what you've done, you know, taken this native experience of going to prison, but also, you know, you took ownership of what happened, you know. you never really denied the stuff. you did explain they arely about what lead to it and what you did

with your time there. you see the struggles, despairty, how population are march losed. i wonder now after you wrote the book, what's become of all that? >> well,, i mean, i guess i could say that one of the things of the book was giving me the opportunity to go to different colleges to speak on different panels and actually to speak at congressional briefings about some of the policy issues they're going through in incarceration. i think about when i had been locked up at 16 my mom didn't know 16-year-olds could be tried as adults. i had a cousin than got locked up. what happened is what i wanted to do is start a conversation in the community how do you prevent crime and prevent what's going

on what happens to the young people who make terrible mistakes. put it perspective the judge sentenced me he's under no illusion in prison. i was sentenced to nine years. even if i did the time. i'd be released at 25. the judge understand when i was sentenced but it was nothing in prison one said place to protect me if i needed protection. but given that, you know, i was barely old enough to get a drlings. and so some of the conversations that have now and trying to connect my experience to policy because i think it's one thing for me to talk about my experience. i think and some in ways that's important. i have funny stories. i haven't told any. i have a couple of funny stories about what it means to be in prison. and it's something to be said about experience you know what it means to go do something different and there's something

relevant to be said about that. i appreciate the idea of a memoir. but i think it's something to be said about policy in looking at my experience. there haven't been many i can name or maybe the national prominence that had the opportunity to connect their troubles to larger policy issues. and i want in time to be able to do that and be able to in some ways distinguish my -- disconnect my troubles from the policy issues. i haven't been able to do that. but at the time i want to be able to do that. the reality i think the experience i have makes me able to discussion some things in a way and with nuance to somebody else may not. sometimes it's hard for people to hear that. they always connect what i say to my trouble. they don't hear somebody who could be a expert on policy issues. they may here a 16-year-old. they say i had a baby face. i don't know. i'm absolutely certain that i'm no longer 16 years old.

there has to be a place where you ask to be a part of a discussion they can be a part of a discussion based on the skills they earned to contribute. and i just wayed on the troubles that they dealt with. >> all right. you know, it's interesting enough to -- based on the conversation that we had the other day, we're talking about some of the challenges that we've had with some of the success, right, a lot of times people this it happens overnight. sometimes people think that there's more to what they're seeing. there's more behind the curtain. and truth of the matter, you know, obviously i've seen how nationally you've involved in this discussions and even as a consult assistant and through a lot of work not with the community but -- [inaudible] interestingly enough, had i had the honor to be the main

subjects in the documentary. i talked about it. when i introduced myself. i told you, well, i have this privilege of being part of the documentary. i saw that film last month. i was like, yeah, that's me. but i didn't say it. because i thought he was the -- [inaudible conversations] i was like eddie. he's like that wasn't me. i was like, good. working with the kids painting and stuff like that but we were joking about that. but, you know, it's amazing because no matter how much we struggle, and how much we think, you know, we done good and how much we've tried to change our lives. there are critics and skeptics and my question is, i've had my challenges, you know, but how has it affected you as far as people -- how do they see you now and, i mean, when they look

at you really giving someone who is could arctic late when they speak for those who don't have a voice. >> yeah, you know. well, the idea of speaking of for people who don't have a voice. i just kind of don't like that term, i think it's not true. i think people have voices. i remember when i was locked up. we were talking about a kid i knew -- he must have been second cell partner in prison. and we were both 16. and, you know, the thing that devastated me, he was 16 he had a picture of his daughter. his daughter had been born right before he was born. he had been arrested for attempted capital murder. it's a long story, to be clear in the incident the gun was

never fired. he claimed that he didn't pull the trigger. but he was sentenced to 63 years. i think to myself, you know, how can do 85% of 63 years at 15 16 years old. that's a life sentence. i remember writing the aclu about his case. i thought to myself that a lot of people write letters to variouses orings. when we say people don't have a voice, i think a more accurate statement might be that people have voice that we don't often listen to. and i mean i guess i do i try to represent. this is on c-span. i know, people who have cable who have five inch color tvs and sitting in a cell somewhere. i used to watch c-span. right now at the very moment, there are people that i know who could be watching this on c-span and so, when we talk about people not having a voice, people have voices and people

have voices in ways you don't expect. i don't know how i appreciated c-span giving me the opportunity to listen to authors speak while i was in prison. now that i know people could be seeing me speak and what it means. i do understand it. there are occasions when i do get an opportunity i do get to speak for people who don't get to speak for themselves in larger context. i don't people doubt that. what they doubt anything -- this is like watching the interpreters. i thought i had two children, a wife, bills and i thought when we do this criminal justice reform work and we try to stop violence, how do we have a conversation at goes beyond stopping violence and goes for life building. and i think, that's something that people don't necessarily want in the past have wanted to engage me with. i haven't had many conversations

with people within the community that went beyond me speaking about my experience in prison toward how do i make a life for myself in the free world. and if i'm devoting and i met young people who devoted a lot of their time to speaking at hears or local or state hearings speaking at community centers talk about their experience trying to change policies. and i've often felt, okay, i'm glad you're doing the work. what work are you doing to be able to put food on your table? and to be able to sustain you you can build a different life for yourself. at the end of the day, there is a problem -- i committed a crime. the end of the day, i have to figure out how to address the fact that it might be a young kid like me on the verge of committing a crime. how do i convince them of the important work that has gone toward me building a life for myself that is in a lot of ways independent of me having

opportunity for speak for others. and speak for myself. and, you know, that's the work that -- that's the work that citizens actually value most, you know, how much citizens and the people of the world truly value somebody who talks. you have to be able to do more than talk. i know, people really, really value what it means to put yourself in any circumstance and try to get a nine to five and pay the bills. at the end of the day, one of the things i imagine that drives resit vifm is the inability to get the nine to five. the inability to see yourself as a working citizens and only sort of being able to concept lose yourself as a former inmate our, you know, whatever. >> i agree with. i agree. something that kind of resonated with me, the last conversation about, you know, people who aren't proficient who shared

testimony, talk about their experience both in prison and in the challenges they've had growing up and then, you know, change challenges they had coming out of prison being released. and so there a lot of agencies out there in the community organizations so forth that often, you know, we are testimony -- i told you my testimony, i would rather save that when i go to church. i didn't get to learn that until recently. and i'm 36 years old. i'm just realizing it. you call it a mascot. and i started cracking up like sometimes that's how people look at us sometimes. people with authority or people who have the ability to preach but here to help out communities. but they become -- and the values of the from the organization. i say, i get it. i think, you know, i get it.

it's difficult. it's difficult to -- one, i think just the reality. i met people who i would say, listen, it might not be the work for you. you probably should go back to school. i don't know why you think you have the right to sit at the table that spent ten years studying criminal justice policies and get the same respect and authority they get. maybe you should choose not to do this. and unfortunately felt the need to say that. the truth is that everybody in the audience is thinking, okay why should i listen to you. if all you have is your testimony. that may per said some people to listen. they're going to look at the question again and the testimony and lean toward the other person on the panel. again, i mean, i got out of prison, and i went to college first, i went to community college. and then i went to the university of maryland. i -- one of my professors from the school said why didn't you

mention our name. i went to the community college in maryland then i went to the university of maryland. it was a lot of work going school that didn't necessarily show up in my bio when i was introduced so some places to speak. but when i came it around and came around for me to apply to fellowships or jobs, it was that work that allowed me to extent myself beyond my testimony. it's not that i don't embrace my testimony, i mean i do embrace my testimony. it's just that, you know, at some point, you want people 20 respect you -- for what you've been through. when they say i don't know how i survived your life. and i think your life hasn't been that great either. [laughter] before we go back and forth to get some questions from the audience. i wish -- we should do that. any questions from the audience? >> put them on the spot so that

-- c-span things can at times -- we had maybe turn the channel. [laughter] so if you have to hear you laughing and make sure that you're enjoying it. if you have any questions, you all could -- if not, we have a lot of things to talk about. even if it's a comment. if you have a question, please come up to the mike and share it. >> yes? >> so you got my thinking, when you mentioned you had a handful of funny stories from prison. would it be too much to ask or share something with us. >> let me think of something that is funny. >> there aren't that many funny stories in prison. i just said that. man, do you have any other -- there are a things that i found humorous. i think you were laughing. i was laughing because i was

calling -- when i was in prison, i was like, i remember that. and there was some sad stories that you mentioned there were necessary funny our more, there was laughing about it because i was like wow. >> i don't have any funny stories. i thought i had funny stories and then i realized that i laughed at thing that aren't appropriate. so, you know, i will tell a story. i'll tale sad story. but it's like -- if i was it would be hilarious. so you're in prison and they are rules set up to sort of ensure your safety. and so we had lots to protect your equipment your snacks and your hygiene and cigarettes if you smoke. so people wouldn't steal from you, right. it wasn't effective at all. it's like having a club when you're caught in a dangerous neighborhood.

you don't have a club because you think it deyou have it because it makes you feel good. you being proactive. people have locks on their stuff and go in saw the locks and still take everything you own. that was sad. one day, so one someday coming from the reck yard and i was a little guy. the thing about prison, you get there and some people deal with mental illnesses that you don't know about. the little guy had cuts up and down his arm. a little white guy. prison is the one place in america which in being a white male is not to your advantage. [laughter] and which is a really sad state of affairs. but anyway so this guy, you know, he was little white guy. and there was another guy who had loaned him some stamps. the guy tried to give him stamps back. but for some reason the little guy, you feel if somebody threatens you many prison you have to do something.

i think he thought the guy was trying to take something from him. and we were coming up the steps and the one small guy said hey, and the other guy turned around and he hit him upside the head with the bridge in the nose with the lock in the sock. the dude was stunned. he hit him again and he fell and jumped on him and was hitting him repeatedly. people were walking up the steps and stepping over the chaos and going about their business. nobody was laughing. but nobody helped. and i don't think it's no one cared enough to stop it. it was just that, that you get so -- that everybody gets tiewght they have a role. we have rules right now, right. and so you get your role is to intervene i didn't know why they were fighting. i stepped over it too, i walked away. and the sad thing was guy was

what's going on. the guy on the ground was like, i didn't do anything. i'm not hitting him. and then, i was like you shouldn't be hitting him. that's not funny. i was thinking that the world is just so backwards. that to say that you absence of toward in the situation can lead to you getting a concussion. anyway this is the funny part. that part isn't funny. it's sad. the funny part is, they put his own lock, like a few hours, to the next day then they sent out a them owe the next morning that said as a safety measure, they're confiscating all the locks in the prison. now you can take my stuff. but this is what's worst though, they took awe all the locks.

we had -- [inaudible] so it's like okay, you're trying to start violence. there's one guy getting upside the head with the locks. you take them. but then you have the adapters and they were as big as locks. and if not bigger than that the locks. that's the insanity that comes with managing a prison. is that, you know, when you push the to try to explain the un explainable you give up. the prison wasn't interested in explaining the violence to us. and we weren't explaining the circumstance with our particular events to the system. what they were interesting in doing is having a show of stopping the violence. when i think about why juveniles shouldn't go to prison with adults. it's that it's the numbing effect. some peep in the audience i feel some of you are traumatized in forever because i told a terrible story of violence. and i'm probably traumatized in

ways that i couldn't articulate. i moved on. i couldn't count a number of instances of violence i witnessed in prison. when i try to advocate for juveniles that have to go to prison with adults. it's not that i'm trying to argue that all of the men who have been in prison are dangerous. at one point, i was a man in prison. i wasn't always like, 16. i'm trying to say that -- this is what the book is about. when i'm describing the different things. in the book i'm trying to go through the process to come from a 16-year-old kid who had never been in trouble before to a man who could witness something like that and like not bat an eye and keep moving and think about -- i'm not saying what's for lunch. but whatever i might have been thinking about. that story wasn't gunny at -- funny at all. >> no. i won't say it wasn't funny.

being there, again, being in the situations in the past, in prison, seeing people seeing gang riots seeing a lot of correctional officers, you know, beating, you know, breading people's wrists when they're cuffed up. i've been a witness to a lot of that and my friends and myself spending two and a half years of my time in segregation. we both witnessed a lot of horrific things that actually in prison in our minds, you know, and so many ways they even effect us emotionally and the psychological scars we carry. people who have been in situation. sometimes ther. seption of -- perception of, you know, the people who walk in the streets don't fully understand

that it's not necessarily that we chose to live in that environment. it's not necessarily that we made the bad choices. something that we saw as a kid lead us there the domestic violence or being exposed to it violence at the early age often that becomes normalized in the community. in prison it's no different. you mention about, you know, the young white kid who was more than anything else felt like it's what he had to do. it's a survival thing. it's something that becomes a norm. i mentioned to you earlier, i didn't spended a lot of time playing cards or chess. i spent a lot of time observing and getting to know people on a one on one basis. getting to know their stories. at the time, i was looking at reflection of myself. i wonder, you know, i'm sure you have dozens of stories like that.

but what's -- like, what do you think -- what level of capacity of the trauma people who experience all of this -- their understanding. or even yours, for example, how do you function. >> a couple of things. you meat me feel like a slacker. i spent a lot of time playing spades with, you know, chess. but i think it was a quote when i said about my father. i met in prison. this isn't a huge stereotype. it's a sad thing. it's a sad thing probably the reaffirm stereotypes. it was the first time i talked to a black men of a certain age or generation over 35. it's like, really, disappointing in some ways. but i think it's -- i think that's the biggest tragedy.

i think sort of -- but also talking to them maybe taught me how to deal with some of the trauma. i never met anyone in the vietnam war until i went to prison. and i never anyone that dealt with substance abuse issues until prison and meeting people who had. i never had -- you sort of judge people who weren't fathers to their children. and going to prison, i met people who like weren't fathers to their children. and it was sad because 77 their inability to function whether it was because of being caught up in the streets whether it was because they were addicted to drugs. in that sense, i trying to understand them i think in some ways i began to understand myself. before i wept to prison, i was [inaudible] i was a decent student. i was hon honor roll student all

through high school. i didn't go to school that much in high school. i thought i was getting good grades i was smart because i was getting good grades and showing up. it made me think than i was better than the segment of the community that i saw disappearing. there is a poem called the "current wind." it's about a dictator. but in the poem it's a scene where the i did tack toy are -- brings out a jar and it's full of disdense that he -- we have that in the united states. and it's sort of different concepts it's not that a dictator disappeared people. but it is that violence and drugs really disappear huge segments of the black community and the bad choices. i began to meet these men and start to think about this. and ask myself, you you know

what are their stories. but two, how about operating in a role which i can acknowledge my failures and their failures and respect them despite that. how do i deal with it? i think i deal with trauma. if you have an eye injury, you have eye forms scar tissue over the wound. i was playing soccer, you have to ask me about spanish. when i was playing soccer with latino kids. somebody can kicked the ball and it hit any the eye. my retina almost got detached. i had to see a specialist and it formed over it. it didn't get detached. then the scar formed over the scar. they thought it was at risk of breaking. it was at risk of being detached if i had experienced a huge blunt force trauma to my head.

i won't tell you which one just in case. how does my eye function now? the scar tissue built over the wound and it keeps my retina attached. i think in some ways, we figure out how to build scar tissue over the trauma. and that scar tissue is allows me to function in the world today despite, you know, -- two kids. life is not it's in some ways sad. i have a beautiful life. i have two children distinguish i'm free -- i have two children, i'm free. if i think about those things and try to live in the moment. i might not have been able to get a date for prom. so what i missed it. you mention in the book, when the -- [inaudible] it's kind of funny kind of sad at the same time.

first of all, it was like some dude from el salvador. you said they were mexico. >> i didn't tell them that. i did think they were mexican. but i didn't say that to them. knew enough. i'm assuming they are mexican because they speak spanish. but i did think this was ignorant. but it was my assumption. the part that you mentioned is they're talking in hispanics and wondering what they're saying. you know, and you recall that and part of the story that few years of french classes and you mentioned the phrase? >> what? [speaking in french] which is be quiet. my teacher used to say that. >> all of my years taking french, that's one of the things that you remembered.

but you made it a priority to learn a different language. a language that is not necessarily your own. but the interesting part of what that part of the story is that it's something that i see quite a bit is that you mentioned that often people think that maybe people who have different when from that area or place. they have to know the culture. they have to, you know, in other words know your culture as american. they have to know a language. what often we become complacent. we don't take the step to learn about someone else's culture or language. most of us haven't talked to a frenchman. i took two years of french. i tell you a few phrases. i've never spoken to anybody in french or met anybody who is

french. but you made a priority to learn spanish. i'm wondering, first of all, did you learn spanish, what was the process of actually learning. >> two things. one, one of the main reason i did it there was a guy named i don't know if i can say his name. i was locked up with him. this older dude was picking on me. it wasn't softly. it could have been the way you mess with somebody that is your little brother. or it could be the way you mess with somebody because you are a bully. if you are in the one in the situation it's hard for you to know until you tell somebody to stop and they don't day. one day the guy was watching. i had never talked to the hispanic. he was like, i want you to leave him alone. the dude was like mind your own business. he was bigger than me. he wasn't that big. the dude messing with me was a

huge dude. looked like he did 100 pushups a day. he did did. he took up for me and when he stood up the puerto rican dude stood up. the other max can stood up too. nothing happened. the situation was sparse. but i was like, man, you know, he stood in the gap for me, and i didn't know his name. and it was -- you know, it was eye opening in a sense that i was 16-year-old kid in a county jail. the only juvenile in the on the block. and i had somebody stand up for me that was from eel salad door. he had a ton of tattoo that make him look dangerous. not the cute ones. not flowers or beautiful flies. we are talking to him and the other guy two guys. they were trying to english and

i would have to start talking spanish for the one guy, droopy it wasn't difficult for him. the other two was it was difficult they didn't know english well. i decided to teach myself spanish. the process when i got up in the morning at 6:00 or 5:00 and i would study for two or three hours depending when they call breakfast and another hour and another hour. i studied for five hours a day. i started talking to people on the block. it was difficult in a way. i was freedom cuba and eel solve door. this is the most ignorant statement i'll ever say. as much as prison is a terrible places, it was the most diverse place i had ever been until that point. i was in a block, except there weren't any white people. outside of that, there was a

diverse place. a guy from cuba, peru, you had black fellows from all over the country, states i had never been to. it was a sad testament to like the conditions somehow in the cities is that they able to get a diverse pool of people to spend the bulk of their good years behind bars. and not always for violent crimes and not always for crimes i think with that warrant incarceration. but i started talking to them. at first, it was choppy and slow. then i got to the point i could have conversations. it was good, because i got to learn things about the culture. more than that, i got realize the work that goes into learning something that in some ways we neglect. it's weird, because if you're an immigrant and you're not of, like say the college-educated class. you have some something up on most americans, anyway.

having had learned two languages and knowing two languages when most americans. we don't go to high school to learn another language. they give us the class. it's never meant to walk away speaking rudimentary languages. i thought it was sad because if my kid teaches a foreign language in high school he will be able to finish without speaking the language or he has no choice. he will. >> that's interesting. again, it's one of the best parts of the book. it was kind of like, i find it as funny in an unusual way. the other thing i wanted to mention, and it's really evident with the way i'm listening to you speak, and also with some of the words that you've chosen in your book, right. it's interesting too, they're

you're not using. the word to express certain things or describe certain things that are often not necessarily known or somebody hasn't been to the prison system. the other thing is that coming out -- [inaudible] i'm not sure how difficult it was for you it was difficult for me to culturally to a different environment. and it still continues to be that. i wondered, how has that been for you. >> two things, i'm asking the question. if you have a question, ask it now. i got locked up when i was 16, and the thing is, when i got locked up. nobody had a cell phone. three people a cell phone in my city. [laughter] i came home ten years later and everybody has a cell phone. i was only 25 or 24 -- i was 24. so i was still pretty young. and i still sort of came up in

the video game generation so adapting to technology wasn't that difficult. i spent a lot of time reading. i i'm fairly intelligent. i had family support. and when i went to college, and, you know, doors lose on you when you have a record. but if you have a college degree, some doors open. more importantly, you give yourself time while you're in school to do other things to do other things to balance out the crimes you've committed. i hardest thing for me, maybe, has been deal with having the connection to the past. still having the connection to the system. and how best to do something for myself and my family and people who i do care about who are still in prison. and be able to have a conversation in a way that i'm able to admit i have been guilty and i know there are others who have guilty. but it's not a condition to have

a drain on a nation's resources. and in a sort of try to have the argument. but yeah, like i said, thank you for coming. it's been a pleasure. and it's been real. i want to ask you one last question, we have a couple of minutes. but right now you have an audience here. they seem to be captain captivated -- looking beyond there are people who watching mention people who have in prison watching the secure tvs. but what message of hope do you give them and you know what can you leave leaving here today right now, what kind of -- what can they do, and what kind of hope do you give those who center in the prison cells right now who are trying to change who -- many times they want to have the same opportunity that you and have i had, but dying for the opportunities to be able

say, i have strength. i want to be able to give a little bit of myself. >> you know, you put me on the spot. i guess, a couple of things. i guess, i will admit that when i was in prison, i had no idea this was actually possible. and i think it's important to expand what you believe is possible. i didn't think it would have happened when i was planning my own life. i think there's a few monumental things. education has been important. human theys going to college or studying the sinlesses or -- sciences or whatever the vocational education. i think education is important. i think for people in prison don't have access to education. i think it's important to find ways to get in touch with the community. i know, it's difficult for me it'd be difficult. i wouldn't get letters back. ii would say i'm not going to write that person. it's important reach out to

community. for the people in. community, i would like to think you can go to the campaign free justice website. read two or three articles and learn more about the particular issues i deal with juvenile transfer to adult court to anybody you know. and equipped with that knowledge, i think you can db some of the issues and it come os indication to act on something and still have knowledge i think that's the biggest thing people in the community can do. because when we talk about the prison being filled with salespeople who spheres. -- filled with people who disappear. we don't consider the men and women and women too. we don't consider the men and women as part of the community. one of the reasons why we don't, is because we're ig ranted of prison. even though they make it like major entertainment now. "lockup" but it is show that -- i won't speak about "lockup."

the fact it can be a source of entertainment and yet the public can be so ignorant about the policies and how it is a huge drain. right now in most states they spend more money on incarceration than education. it's about $25,000 per inmate here in the state of illinois. every year about $35,000 inmates being inmates l being released into the at a state. i'm doing campaigning with the tboil give opportunities for people who, you know, not necessarily like me. people committed the crime when they were 16 were caught with a dime bag of weed or broke into somebody's car and got a fight. and it prevents them from employment and feed their family. from those, i hope you can connect with the community. you're right, people can connect with. they can find ways to give it back.