i want to thank for your time today. do you want to mention the book one last time. >> "a question of freedom; a memoir of learning, survival, and coming of age in prison." it's a excellent book. it's a memoir of learning coming of age and survival in prison. "a question of freedom; a memoir of learning, survival, and coming of age in prison." thank you. we appreciate it. >> ..

>> i also in 1980 had a rather surreal experience which was, i

played ronald reagan end the practice debates for president carter before the debate. i'll explain later why this was an uncomfortable experience. not because it might to play reagan, but because you might think it is a professor's dream says a, you have not done well here with you only get a b plus there. why is the economy in the tank. it is, in fact, very disconcerting to foster the president. [laughter] and everything i saw at the time i thought was idiosyncratic of hamilton or the carter team or ms. rose will or the president. and over the years i realized that there was a strange

discomfort of the president in the debate practice repeated it with every president. finally understanding that, understanding what it -- what is different about being a president was part of finally being able to put the pieces together and write a book about campaigns and candid it's, not about how did this one when i lose, but what is it that happens over and over and campaigns that can help us to understand future campaigns. and every time i have been in a campaign i have the luxury of going back to the university so that you were not in perpetual motion with no time to digest what you had done. i would work this summer in the fall and then go back to being

the real person out of the pressure cooker. it's like being in the emergency room at the hospital. it's solid drolen and action. when i would get back, would say, what did i think was going to happen that never happened and what mattered that nobody expected to matter? said you could start rethinking what matters in campaigns. and then i had a very discombobulated experience which was the gore campaign of 2000. and to do that campaign after the farm, energy, and a lot of camaraderie of the clinton campaign of 1992 was, which plan and my on? why is this so different? what could explain why one campaign, the pieces kept getting back together and in the other campaign it was like a

little league game where none of the kids could catcher something . everything went wrong. from day one everything went wrong. i was in washington because my wife was in the state department in charge of china. bob squire who later died of cancer during the campaign said he wanted me to be a fly on the wall with him and write the kind of great short memos i rode in the carter campaign. a person that is so much fun to be around. this is a chance to learn. in washington d.c. more of the power struggles and interaction than you might see on the telephone when you're just doing the polling, even if you're just as important. and the first thing he said to me was, we have a little meeting every week to make the decisions. just 17 of us.

and i immediately knew something was wrong because anyone who has ever made decisions, there is a reason no jury in the world is bigger than 12 if you want to get a decision. that is already hard enough, when you really want decisions you need a small group. the idea that there were 17 seem drawn. and then from day wall -- day one there was disarray. i read about it in the book. you have to decide why you are in the situation you're in and what is the cure. at the time out or have low polling numbers. now, there are two ways to describe that. one is your vice-president and all vice-president sent bad numbers until they get the nomination. the other way is, your a victim of monica lewinsky and it's the scandal that has tainted you. now, every professional said, it takes time. don't worry.

it's not my cup. you're just a vice president. nobody knows which of our. the day of his announcement he was later that day on the air, his interview with diane sawyer, in which she said the were disappointed fiver six times. and the whole story for the next week was gore's separates from clinton. nothing he said about issues, presidency, all but he stood for made the news. and by making the statement then by this rush to judgment he looked both disloyal and created fiction and the white house between his staff and the clinton staff that got in the way of the whole campaign. my first reaction was, okay, i have to write about campaigns. even before florida, this needs

to be explained. how can so many stars be so crazy. there are a lot of brilliant people, but things, something is wrong. i decided, well, it's either the strategy, the strategist, or one of the six pollsters or maybe it was one of the four media people then i realized, there's a book that i had on my shelf by a geographer. the theme of the book basically was that all maps are misleading , and that is what they're useful. you buy a map to emphasize the features that you need to know about, the gasoline stations, the monuments, the hamburgers, if you have kids, the camping spots that deer are there,

whatever is you're looking for, you don't want all the details. you don't want to know whether clothing stores are when you're looking for fish. you may want to know where the big stores are. you need a map particular to what you doing. things change very quickly. and so you realize how fast things change so you can't just talk about a good strategy the star with. you could not possibly have a strategy that would cover everything that could happen in the campaign unless it was the size of an encyclopedia. coaches have to decide playbook for every game, and they may make mistakes and it may spell, but then they change the playbook or it may rain. we can't prepare everything you

could possibly do where you will be so shallow that you won't be gutted anything. and everything changes. there are really three reasons in campaigns things keep changing. one is, there is always a new media with new information both more vulgar and sophisticated data coming around. it's not -- and everyone is always talking about the media revolution as if it was the newspaper, the telegraph, the radio, the television, cable, twitter, the internet, facebook. there is always something that changes the game. it's only 1992, 20 years ago now that james carr became famous in one of his sayings that made him famous was in the campaign you have not said anything until you have said it on tv. what is tv? team in the internet, facebook,

youtube. half of the students in america don't on television. they watch media on their iphone, their ipad, all over the place. what is a television? what does that have to do with it. there are so many ways to release information now. joe biden got tweeted before he got press conference when he was picked for the vice-president for the obama supporters. and it is a new world away. it makes everything more difficult. ed rollins tried to make michele bachmann into a viable first your candid command he bitterly complained after. he said, you go on fox and throw a hand grenade and raise a lot of little money fast. did you ever get serious because you keep throwing hand grenades and raising the money. if you want to be president have to go past the cuban things.

not only does that make the michele bachmann as of the world go for a while and throw them grenades or say outrageous things that keep them going, it also makes it harder and the candid it's you're trying not to through the goodness to be to have to be able to do so many more things today. the very prominent, conservative columnist in the new york times pointed out, speaking to conservatives, not just liberals, you can't defend your ideals of the daily show your not ready to the president. that's one way things change fast. of the way things change fast as, you never can prepare for the issues that you run on and think it's going to stay that way. you run as a candidate of peace and then there is september 11th.

think about john mccain. he decides he doesn't really like studying economics, ignores economics. billion advisers contents i wanna try to prepare and to talk run economics. instead he emphasizes barack. and we have the collapse of 2008. he has to look like he's leaving the show. he's the president to call a special summit meeting and urge is obama to call off campaigning in join him. they have the summit meeting. the secretary of the treasury later wrote about the meeting. he said, mccain could say a word. he didn't understand the three page proposal. he sat there as barney frank said looking electoral debacle. they got so frustrated that frank started yelling where is

your plan. he just sat and mumbled. by the time the meeting ended the vice-president was laughing out loud. think about former governor romney of massachusetts. in 2009 he was perfectly positioned to be president obama as the moderate new england republican. he wrote an op-ed in "usa today" in the summer of 2009 saying, if you drop the public option from obamacare you will have the perfect massachusetts health plan, a conservative cost-cutting plan. as we know, the public option was dropped. did the tea party went after everybody. now mitt romney is repeating the plan that he said was the perfect plan.

and when i saw all that, when i started putting that together a new competition that is always current, new media, all the changes, you realize that its team mark and an adaptation. one of the stories of the "washington post" had a military phrase that just stuck with me everyday when i was writing. the phrase was, planning is everything, and the plan is nothing. the plan is turnout the first-aid shooting starts. you realize that if you're not planning all the time you can't replant all the time. i have a secret compression to make. i'm a big nfl fan. you have 15 seconds for the coach to tell the quarterback what to do. you cannot have a debate in 15 seconds. you can't explain what you mean

when you give these cryptic numbers like 40 wing left why are something. they have to know it, and that takes a lot of work together. you need a lot of time. think about senator mccain. he had a lot of economic staff to explain to him his options. since he had not paid attention to them he was not interested. he could not get it fast enough the way somebody who had really worked on a bus. and so is the ability to plan and replant. of the competition changes people get thrown. to the bitter divide him was over nothing.

jimmy carter at the blue-collar white folks and the african-american both in the primaries, and that was the coalition that the liberals were running against. some of the people almost felt like, you can have both. they hate each other. in traditional political terms they did, but not when somebody who was a moderate governor but who had done very courageous acts, it sounds like nothing, but it was an awfully big event when he was governor to put a picture of barn with the king in the state house. you may call that symbolic politics, but that took a lot of courage. it did feel like a symbolic acts of the people of. then as i was looking all that over a realized people are always saying the loser did have

a chance. it was obvious this person was going to lose. it was obvious that the man who was 15th out of 15 m win. once it's over it seems so obvious, and that's why say in the book every campaign has two letters, the inevitable winner and the inevitable winner wins over. i wanted to explain the difference. remember in 2011, who was the person who said the all-time record for high school ratings, good press, and fund-raising in the republican party? americas mayor, time magazine's person of the year paul rudolph giuliani endorsed by people like senator david of louisiana, rick perry, governor of texas pat robertson.

they knew he was a catholic with k friends and pulled -- pro-choice. he hates liberals. he can win. it put money on the line for him. people put in an online. he never made it through the starting gate perry he just fizzled so badly. all the way through 2011 when the experts at national journal, november 9 of 2011, the experts at the national journal on the political pull or asked for all the democratic in the. worse than expected was senator obama. better than expected with senator cohen. two days later she lost. she blew it at the iowa jefferson. so there is a lot -- we have to understand, there is a lot more contingency. as i started to work on the

campaigns, one of the first things i realized, it sounds awfully simple, but it's not. there really are only three campaigns for president. there is the challenger from the party out of power, and there is either an incumbent trying to hold and defend the white house for a successor trying to maintain control of the warehouse for the party in power . only three times last hundred years have we had a race without a successor, without the vice-president or president. senator mccain was the successor in 2008, but it's rare. most of the time we have an incumbent and challenger. all talk a little bit about that here. the public views you

differently, with your an incumbent or challenger for a successor. you had different kinds of experience in the media with what they've done when they're in power or wanting power, and the organizational challenges a very different. now, when you start, when you are challenger and in every case i learned the last campaign is the one you think about when you're getting ready to run, and it's always wrong. with the been a governor or senator or a hero like an eisenhower or a mayor like guliani, you're running a very different race with very different the competition, and it's much tougher. they all think they're ready. everybody thinks they're ready. in 1988 bill clinton said, when i run on never have any trouble

with the drug questions. whenever they ask me about drugs and to say i never broke any state laws. you never get away with that nationally. the first to use it that it will ask you about england. first interview, don imus. governor clinton, what about when you're in england. that is when the famous i didn't inhale answer was used. that became one of the -- i don't know if you still remember that line, but for years and years, everything from johnny where were you? i was at the library. that was the line. over and over you heard it. and then look at center obama it's a high will. having a terrible time with the debate and with the question and answers.

he searched and planning, and not like he's of the people. i give both sides of the question and then explain where i stand. as a professor of realize the arrogance of professors. if you're a professor and you bolivia and talking like, either they get it or the official. when your candid if you talk of link and the tune out you fill. it's your job to talk at the level that the candid it -- that the people want. he had to learn not to be the professor who wanted to show how much in new, but the professor who got to the point at the level the audience wanted. are you for chocolate or vanilla? that want to hear essays on the health value of chalk that forces the calories of the no.

it took him a long time to learn that. i called the section of the book about challengers the search for an experienced person. i understand their is a contradiction , but they're is a contradiction in the dreams and hopes and aspirations we keep looking for in the next great promise. they used to call this, were all looking for the great white hope. now i call it the night in shining armor because the great white hope with african-american or woman, but it's the magical outsider who can come and and make it easy, who is untainted. really, if you remember the old star wars movies the perfect challenger would be oda.

wise, experienced, clean, not from washington, experienced a cleaning up the swap. his plan in swamp-like. also tough. and you have this image. everybody -- and the trick in the campaign lynyrd challenger is to make so little bit of the experience with some of the hope the alliance over time soundalike, but it's very hard in the end. it's very hard to be. but if you look at the lines,

they're virtually the same. you can cover up the name of the candid and have a very hard time passing which ones. this is about me. this is about us. i am but an imperfect vessel for your hopes. i can't even remember which of those is which. it's not easy to do, and with the running in the campaign, when they're running in the campaign against the incumbents there like a speed of. they can move very fast. the ideal of the challenger's campaign, and the movie everybody studies to this day is the war room, the documentary. there have the band of brothers of the woods with robin had. you're there. a big bunker working at the

plans and the policy people are right there. whenever the president of, the attack is up there. he's out there zipping around every acting very quickly. it's sort of rapid reaction. all they do is talk about plans. when i run the show this would never happen. as governor carter said on the way to becoming president carter , we deserve a government as good as the people. the implication was, when i'm president the government will be listed as the people. asking you to evaluate the hope and change against what you have got. and the challenger can always look at what the incumbent is done. you didn't do a lot of what you

promised. backlash is barely. he promised the class would be overflowing. you promised whenever the unemployment rate is, you promise less. whatever the inflation rate is, whenever the state of war, you said you were going to take care of his problems. always, they point to things that did happen. and in the famous phrase with the president likes it and not their always, the incumbent is more of the same. one challenger on led to the by -- white house said it must be set depressing in washington where a man's word is worth anything. that was governor bush into a dozen. can you imagine president bush saying something like that? and a texan and some of word is

always my word. it's a perpetual part of our hope in our idealism that this time will be different, this time will be magical, and it's a very tricky -- i'm not criticizing anybody who makes the promises because i do when it works for my candid it. you can't win if you don't make those promises because that's what people want. you would be disappointing people if he did overpromise. promise the moon kind of thing. to make it sound original. [laughter] and learned a lot about how difficult it is to be an incumbent. can't take it when i played reagan in the practice debate the president carter, long story, but i got -- when

somebody wrote about the debates ten years later after they wrote about it i somehow persuaded them to give me the copy of the tapes of the practice sessions they had. acted like a temper years because it is of very uncomfortable. somebody revered to lick embarrassed, someone who is uncomfortable, flustered, some and you respect, someone with a nobel peace prize, somebody who did camp david, had a good years and bad years that he had dedicated to. and when i finally looked at them carefully i was able to do so because i realized, it's common. i noticed over and over and president to campaigns the same difficulty preparing for debates we started the first session

after 11 minutes. is that enough. every president has that problem in the debate. no president wants to -- as somebody wrote, when your president he think you know everything that's going on in the don't because you're in a bubble. when you leave the white house to think your in touch with america. ronald reagan resisted appearing . no one ever questioned the president's motive. and the shock of the debates for me was that president carter had not ever heard to his face the things governor reagan was saying about him every single day.

he was so busy being president and talking about what he would do that he had never had time to listen, and it was very shocking for him. and at one point he said listening to governor reagan i was reminded of myself four years ago. had been in the white house for full. now i know for every difficult question is an easy, glib, long answer. it took me months when i finally listens to realize the extraordinary irony of that statement. president carter was criticizing challenger reagan for saying exactly the same kind of things challenger carter had said. but now the challenge to carter realized how much harder and less to the president's and how poorly prepared he and every

other person were until they have been there for four years he could not believe anyone should be allowed to get away with the same nonsense to get away with. it i mean, it was extraordinary -- the class is not empty. if you are president ever be a whole of a glass or somebody would be drinking from a now, with the challenger is like a speedboat that can move very quickly , the incumbent is more like a. takes a lot of planning to make any move, and they're very slow. you made very big waves. since the gold standard is richard nixon's visit to china. you know, nobody can criticize that on the left. once -- i mean, the whole world.

how many times as a presidential visit in an opera? how many times does a presidential visit change history and fascinate the world? by doing it, it allowed president nixon to campaign on peace with honor against george mcgovern's peace tomorrow. people on average prefer honorable peace in a few years to instant peace with dishonor. and these big moves, the big moves the presence half are really the veto. the president is whenever they campaigned as the government. when i am president we will have milk and honey. when i'm president we will close guantanamo. when i'm president we will fix this problem. the truth is, if the senate since in the bill that he likes

it takes 50 senators to pass. if he doesn't like it takes 67 to override. so he is the 800-pound senator, if you will, the 17 senator guerrilla, if you what. and i will skip the successors because i have gone on longer than i was supposed to. i wanted to talk about obama today because he is really running the truman strategy of 1948 which is the same as bill clinton which is basically trying to paralyze and take away the operating space of the challenger by giving senators and congressman from that party of the rope to tie the person up tom dewey was not a step. he was a dynamic, articulate, dynamic panera and. :.

he was an an extraordinary speaker and a very, very smart, impressive public figure. robert taft would prefer tom dooley to lose than to have a moderate internationalist takeover the republican party. truman called on taft to pass some of the platform in the summer of 1948. taft made all sorts of constitutional arguments. if we do any of this bid setting the president usurp the power of the senate. what he really meant was, if i do this i am accepting the fact that dewey is right and i'm wrong and on never be president. that is a little bit, when george stephanopoulos wrote, the rabbit freshman became his best friend because the more they pushed on things the easier it was for clinton to look like the same balancing act against the

others. and i'll skip over some wonderful details of that because the point i should have gotten to a few minutes ago is that the overlooked element that i emphasize that the book brings together for me is team work. what does it take to have a presidential team? and they're all different. there is not a formula. you can't rent to team. every president needs different pieces. you can't just hire them and do it quickly. and it's difficult because the only people who run for president are truly audacious. you really have to be bold and feisty and have a lot of brass if you're going to stand up and say, i am ready to be the most powerful person in the world. and you're not, and you know it, but you have to act like to believe it.

you have to get out. you announce you're running and it is like in the old westerns when you walk in the slim and elected you bite your the new gun in town. are you really faster than johnny ringo or martial arts ball whenever. who are you to say you are the fastest in the west? and you claim that. if you're a senator, all the other senators, who you think he is. if she had been around senators on the president's speech they all say to my would have been better. it's like that every minute with the governors. now, how do you claim that you're ready to one the world and keep learning all the same about things you don't know. that's not easy. you have to be able to be agile. you can't be at jal as a candidate if you don't know what you stand for. you also can't be agile without a team because you're going to be asked. president carter got some very difficult situations when he was

asked what he thought was a very simple question. one was, well, you think you're human rights stand applies to northern ireland? of course. not knowing that at that point he accepted the ira proposal against a proposal of moynihan and hugh carey, the governor of new york and prompted emergency cabinet meetings in ireland and london a week before the election and only richard holbrooke on the phone for 48 hours saved the president's bacon by convincing them that it was a mistake and that he was going to win anyway. so if they denounced and it would be sorry. you need the holbrooke. to be resilient in need this when you go on every day that you're doing it perfectly. you know exactly which going to do. you're obviously going to fall flat on your keister some base commander obviously going to make huge mistakes. the team has to be ready.

it is the world according to mike tyson, the boxer. when reporters when asked tyson about the opponent's strategy. the opponents is there going to be viewed by doing this or by doing that to be. ♪ , everybody has a strategy into the get hit the face. [laughter] is the campaign's job to be ready so that when you're hit the face they know they have a bucket of water where they have a contingency plan. and also to prevent ambushes that you don't want and to help you decide what it's what, you can't go out there just acting like, i'm here to do is buy and knocked everybody down because that's a disaster. the team, first of all, has to understand the difference between the three campaigns. then the two most astonishingly difficult things to have on the team? one of them is a really strong chief of staff that is a real

pier of the candidate. why is that important? without a strong chief of staff you don't get closer. everybody always wants to go behind the chiefs back and tell the candid it, look, really you ought to talk more about the euro were really you want to go spend more time in missouri. really gay-rights is a bigger issue than they understand. there is always somebody who has a stake. it's a little bit like trying to referee budget fights between the army, navy, air force command the marines over who should get the money or who should be in charge of the next war. that has to be done when the kendis is on the road 18 hours a day. that only can be done when they're is a strong chief, and it only can be done if there is somebody who is close to the family that is in the inner circle of the campaign.

at first i did not appreciate why there were important in the campaigns because he seemed like a kindly gentleman and a friend of president carter, but there were times when the president would make a mistake. if he said, this is upsetting people, the president would understand, it's not just that the speech writer is upset with the issue person is upset, but i need to do something. it's a very important thing. the person it turns out to have been brilliant at it despite the vicious press was, argue ready? nancy reagan. the great richard news that, the vice presidential scholar of the last century told the interviewers at the miller center for the presidency at the university of virginia, ask who is the nancy when you interview from any white house, the person who watches the president's back

and takes care of them. it's not always the wife. there is somebody who watches them, and that is the only time you can adapt and keep things in order. now, people say today, this long process, it is longer than it used to be and less good than it used to be. i don't like all the money any more than most people, and i don't think -- i think it's like an arms race. if we each can stop at 1,000 nuclear weapons as opposed to each stopping and 89,000 we would all save money, but you can't enforce the treaty. the pile on the billions on the side. but the public, it is not a long process that used to be. it's just a long republic process. eugene mccarthy started campaigning to be a nominee in 1960 and then decided in 1968 to be the reluctant nominee who never wanted to run.

john kennedy spent years first trying to get to be vice-president and 56 and in planning. people have always started running the day they get that clean and there i. they don't stop until they can't run anymore. and the difference is now in its public. i think it works better than the smoke-filled rooms not because we are smarter than the boss's but because the public long process gives people more time to show how often they are. it gives more time for the candid it's to go at each other. and it's a better process the way than it ever used the. of sorry i did it to have another hour, but i'm given the signals to be polite because there's always somebody questions. [applause]

>> you have a great opportunity to ask questions as someone who really knows about politics. there will be a better time. so please raise your hand. derecognized. we pull the microphone to come over. in fact, let's start right here. >> hello. [inaudible question] what has been that the bank. >> i get a copy to one can visit it. i'm not going to break the non-partisan atmosphere, but i will let you guess which one i gave it to. [laughter] >> i know that both have it. [laughter] i didn't give it to them. >> have you gotten any feedback? >> very positive.

look. i don't know that it matters, and if i did and said so i would never be listen to again, but my generation if you held you don't say much about it for long time. it's a book that sets patterns. it doesn't make it necessarily easier to do things, but it makes it easier for us to understand what is happening, think. it's quite an act. stand up. i think it will work better. >> thank you. the work of local campaigns, managing campaigns. can you explain the power of incumbency and how even if it's not logical old saying or i hate congress but i love my congressman. >> part of it is the old really

has transferred the called the chapter edges that a war of the san. a lot harder, especially their the executive did. if you're the mayor, police chief, sheriff, governor, president, there is a certain presumption. for the -- whenever people say about president obama, and even the people who don't believe he was born on this planet, nobody says there has been another september 11 for 4 years. no damn in america has burst. new or lenses no worse today than when he took office. the things you're not paying attention to or and so bad, even if you hated and.

so there is a certain -- and when you are elected they the 15 percent of the people in the country have not focused on you enough to know whether they're positive or negative matching. over the four years that level of uncertainty diminishes, and after four years a lot more people are where few. there's a very important change. people think about the incumbent in terms of what they have done. you have something more solid. he did this and he promises that and it is the bird in hand into when the bush problem. what is it that helps the bird you have looked better than the promise of magic change? and that is the trick of the game. that is why reading the book you still have to perform a.

right there and then right there. i see both of you. your next. >> how did the obama's decide to come out when they did? have them make the decision to come out for gay marriage in this particular point in campaign? >> i think they almost -- the only thing -- are was passed -- okay. i was asked about it for days before that. one thing and said, i am certain there will -- you will come out before the convention so there will be protests. i don't think either campaign understood what was going to happen when he made the statements. i didn't think it ever see the day when a republican candidate for president accused the democrats of a smokescreen by talking about social issues.

we know it's been one of the fastest changing issues in america. it suddenly has to evolve so that you cannot take a strong position and women everywhere. it is happening so fast. it is all a gamble. and that is another example of how much charter it is as the incumbent. his basketball body already came out for it. the secretary of education. you can't put people in the basement of a closet and quiet the mop the way you can when you are a challenger. you have people in the cabinet. you try equating henry kissinger you tell somebody his career depends on defending application to it anymore how fast.

at a party one to make a big fuss about it. i don't know if that explains what it did it. he had no choice at some point. obviously the timing was affected, in part, by vice-president biden. i did not know obama skied until he said, well, he crossed my skis. "but that was almost as funny as the smokescreens comment. did not know basketball players went skiing. >> he spoke a little bit about the similarities of strategy between campaigns and the republican primary this seem to be a lot of negative campaigning i wonder if you could speak a little bit to trend. >> can i just remind you of the democratic campaign of 1992. when you have a chance of winning.

the need for a% of the country to love you to get your primary. the ride for your the left 40, 30 percent. the trick is, when the primary without doing things that make it harder to get to 50. determined to do nothing to move farther to the right and necessary to get the nomination. unlike george w. bush in 2000, bill clinton in 1992 were governor carter in 1976, his challengers or on the right, not in the center. bill clinton did not have to move to the left to be people. george w. bush had challengers. john mccain on the left of him.

steve forbes decided to behave in not be the right wing man. summit romney, unlike many other candidates was faced with far more virulence challenges sucking up delegates and votes in pockets, none of them could never win but him, but they all did things that probably -- i'm not sure, but i suspect there was some week planning that nobody expected. i'm certain nobody expected it would have to come out and condemn contraception on the way to the nomination. i don't think he wanted to go as far as he did to endorsing congressman ryan and some of the others, but when you're facing michele bachmann and newt gingrich and sarah palin he did not have to run to scare people and senator santorum, you have a hard time finding room.

if i think he made one mistake, nobody likes to be told vote for me because i can win even if you don't really like me. nobody likes to be told immobile for the lowest common denominator because you have no other winner, but that is some of what he ended up with. wait for the boom to drop. >> an interesting point that the process is not longer now which is seen to mike more public. but in your opinion as the process become more or less substantive over the years? and then, part two of that, how have you or would you advise people not to become very cynical and jaded by the prices given, some discourse that goes on in the process?

>> i can't answer the second half, and not going to try. the first half, so much more substance it's stunning. john kennedy traveled the country with two people. he goes to the book to show he had intellectual chops that ted sorensen really wrote most of. he could do enough to get through the campaign and he's very smart, well read. but now you just don't have a tape you have to be able to do this sound bite, the third sound bite, the fourth sound bite. governor bush spent a year meeting every weekend in texas with an economic team. the literally camped in texas, resigned as provost as stanford and moved to texas to work with him on national security. they had weekly meetings. it is a much more rigorous job.

look at the people who get. michele bachmann never did explain what she would do other than repeal everything he ever did. and then there was governor groups. [laughter] he had some great lines. they worked great as rally cheering points for his devoted, but he could not go on and explain denied any link. you have to have a lot more. and there is nothing harder than a 302nd sound bite. as i learned when i got three-quarters of the way through my talk, really knowing how to keep it on time and not talk too much here and there, when senator obama realize that to be president obama he had to quit the low beating in showing how much he knew, it's hard to be precise and to know enough. and senator mccain with a three page memo that everybody had for

the big summit. he said he had not had time to read it. i would go to my grave believing he readied in did not have a clue about it because he had not paid attention of the years. no disrespect to a great hero, but i don't believe he could understand it without a lot of -- i certainly couldn't today with a ph.d. from mit and understand some of these derivatives and swaps and problems that you have to know about. if your president you have to sit in the room with larry summers and bob rubin, both of whom are too smart to fail and decide which of them is right to be there both determined they're going to win every argument. it is not enough to have a nobel laureate and your staff. you have to have a couple, and you have to decide which one is right. surf. i see. easier if you stand.

>> who would you say in your estimation had campaigns with the greatest reputation that had the biggest problems. maybe it was the fact that the other campaign imploded something like that, but which gets sort of more high reputation than they deserve in your estimation? >> i think too much credit might be given to the vice president's -- well, that's a hard one. people usually ask me who was a great loser. i think one of the best campaigns a loser ever -- well, you might say president carter in '76 because he was 40 points ahead and won by about 25,000 votes in a few states because the ford campaign nibbled away day by day by day the whole campaign. that was a very, very good campaign. you might say that dewey campaign because given how many

things that taft did to sabotage him and all of the obstacles german throughout, they almost pulled off. there are a lot of campaigns. it's a hard question. i need a better answer, and i'm sorry. sir. >> what do you anticipate -- you have already seen some of it in 2010 about the citizens united decision allowing huge amounts of unknown money coming in and making all these attacks. no way to really respond when you don't know. and also, i think the fact that they are going to have to say who the donors were is going to make a difference. i read -- on the way here preparing my talk i saw a headline that one of the big super pak funders was complaining about making a subject to criticism for being

-- exercising your first amendment rights. it is very interesting how fast some of these people will back off, but i think also it is that old kerrs, be careful what you wish for because you might get it. i think this is the year that they do as much damage to their friends as help. i don't think -- the person who leaked the idea of going after obama on racism and reverend right now that he is president, i don't think that person was really as interested in helping governor romney as they were in making themselves and name as the new superstar vicious hit person who could attract money from people who will believe anything and nothing is fearless enough. that doesn't help you get to 50%. that is one of the tricks.

and this is the year the "wall street journal" complained about some of the debates. .. maybe it will never happen because of the money, but i keep thinking there is a hole in the political spite to for the old-fashioned moderate conservative republicans that took a little government

seriously. [inaudible] >> beyond the substance in the end because even -- the incumbent campaign has to be based on some of the substance of what they had done in the big moves. the challenger to go on beyond the lead of smoke and mirrors and cheap talk is a need to record. i don't think they understand, bill clinton was famous and mad to camp again for this is to souljah event where he made it clear he was strong enough to build a coalition, that he was criticized by the hip-hop lyrics.

he had given speeches like that during the campaign, but no one took him seriously because of all the i didn't inhale maintained that viability of remarks that made him look like some are decided person whose favorite color was plaid. for one day during the campaign he gave a very tough speech about the need to change behavior and a black church and then went to a white church in detroit. i'm sorry, white church in kenya academy, the same as ex-democratic, reagan democratic. then he went to famous african church in detroit instead of circling to get them together again ever going to work this together, both sides have to change some policies that we have to recognize the problem that the single parent and welfare dependency and they have to face the fact that you want

work and jobs, too. i remember the details, but it is very powerful. until he made it clear that he meant to be taking a chance of sticking his neck on the line, the press wouldn't listen. they need to type about policies and arkansas. when president bush wanted to say use as a tax raising liberal like oakley other democrats for me to point it would be a dad to find jobs for people on welfare. when they wanted to say you're another person has asked the other we have crime because you don't want to be accused of being hard on blacks at the civil liberties union companies that look forward to in arkansas to fight crime. he had policies that he could talk about them. it takes years and years to have the ability to go beyond a one-liner. i used to think in the campaign you needed was to take. you want to be governor?

here's five things to say. dick armey said when he was the third most important congressman and republican party. when asked me about foreign policy, and make some in full team comment about rents and i go into the next question. you want to know a lot more. you have to see the mistakes governor romney made when he spoke on that gymnast in a few updates. you have to try really work on your timing. >> i wants you to have time to pick up the book and get it signed. i'm going to asked the last question. what do we expect to see in the next months ahead, with the campaign, what do you look for and what do you think it's going to happen? >> i think this too. important events coming for governor romney to look for

your. what does he do for a vice president? the vice president will tell you where they think he's weak and where they think obama is weak. what is the problem they expect to face resistant to solve quiet there is no perfect vice president for all seasons, all issues, all faults of the candidate. what is it they see as their best option? the other one is, what do they do with senator santorum to have a theme under convention and not a religious revival that pinned president bush to the right in 1992 quiet when you're dying per year old daughter is made a life member of the nra a senator santorum and down, no one can do as well as senator santorum hit

the theater without thinking that i should governor romney lose their will be the nominee. this may be realistic, it may be not realistic, but i would bet every penny i have had she thinks he can get the nomination. and certainly he thinks he's a very important later in the part of a party and he can only stay the leader of that part of the party if he pushes to show she wants to say she's kept alive. i am not sure governor romney really want senator santorum's bread-and-butter issues discussed very much this year. i don't know how they're going to finesse that. they have a very easy time with ron paul, congressman paul because congressman paul signed randy paul as a senator. there is not much ron paul can

do to be tough on a candidate without getting his son in the doghouse. so there is a hostage to be out again congressman paul, but i don't know what you do. this is the problem gerry ford had with ronald reagan in 1976. i don't have an answer, but those are the most things to look for her. on the other side come out as president obama -- and i've written about this on the "atlantic monthly" website in exchange with james fallows. how does he turn the criticism has been not just a mean capitalist, that you have policies that are irrelevant to the country or that won't work for industries are for everybody. and how does he point out very carefully that they started now and you weren't any better in massachusetts than anybody else, so why do you think you'd be better as president?

decided to big moves. it's not about the debate and mean as in your mother is no better than my mother and your unicorn a non-african. there's all this silliness. this silliness is fun. some of the silliness -- there's someone out there who looks every bit that silliness which u can stand under some silliness about their eula that other people can't stand. i have my own varieties. my german life is to have jon stewart available always been a need to. why does he take vacations? it's not her. but thank you. >> one of the reviewers say things that this is the book you want to keep if you enjoy politics, and this is a book you want to keep by your bedside and just follow throughout the campaign. i'll have an opportunity to buy the book and the lobby as sam

popkin will be signing them. let's give a round of applause. [applause] >> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants to know. >> well, i am reading three books this summer. i plan to travel a little and as i travel and going to reread a book. a little book and it's called, cross that bridge. i just want to go back and read

it and just see whether it says what i wanted to say. any other book i read it as a robert caro book about lyndon johnson. i met with him on more than one occasion, but the most amazing meeting was the second voting rights back, others say it 47 years ago. and to read his story, his unbelievable ability to get things done is amazing. it's a big book. it's almost too heavy to travel with. what i want to read it. there's another little book that came just a few days ago about

the congress. that is that its program. that he needs to be fixed, that the congress has been hijacked by extremists. that's going to be a tough book to read. >> for more information on this and other summer reading list, is it booktv.org. >> joining us on booktv, are co-authors, meghan mccain and michael ian black. "america, you sexy bitch: a love letter to freedom" is the name of the book. first of all, tell me. the >> i was the guest of a pilot who shot via satellite and then we followed each other on twitter and he treated me one night asking if i wanted to read a book and i said sure. >> i was on a lot of ambien at

the time. >> the look on your face. for the c-span guy. >> this is the c-span tdma program. >> said the way ms. mccain tells the story of how you met. you asked her to co-author a book like >> i proposed over twitter that we write a book. >> why did you agree? >> i had just gone through a really bad breakup. sorry it's really funny when i say it. what a full-time project to do. >> you are having a moment of desperation and sadness. >> is that you know this is not some opportunity with the popularity of "the daily show," and legitimately it was

interesting idea and i would get no other time in my life as ridiculous and over the top and exciting and serious at the same time. >> so a blue state it is liberal and a republican christian red state are packed together. what is the tone of the book? >> i think surprisingly positive. before you embark on the project i think when michael and i were having the initial discussion and we got the concept for the book, both of us knew enough about each other that we weren't really going to be nasty towards each other and make it personal although it happens a little in the book. this is a serious, we say social experiment. >> you say serious. >> got together a fan and be friends and discover america in 2012. >> it is a romp through america.

>> to have you got into an rv and just took off. >> with two other people, yes. >> did you have a driver? >> cousin john is it a minute -- prominent character in the book. driving through america, talking to people. >> we both are frustrated with the climate and environment of american politics right now and when he was typing about writing a political book, i thought the way i fell in love with america is being on the road for two years. so forget to do this they had to go on the road. we interviewed hundreds of people and i think what fascinated us both as americans are so positive right now. when a dark time in a dark recession, but everybody still believes in america. i mean, there were some people that were negative, but there is this feeling of weariness together. we just thought if we could

write a positive book that had a more positive spin like aspirin it together and the recessions hard on everyone, but if the two of us were crazy by her own admission can come together and read a book that we think, although can be over-the-top and perfectly irreverent copy about american politics in a positive way, hopefully it gets people because at the end of the day a book or people interested in politics i've never been interested. i like people turn off from politics and don't want anything to do with it. is that the people i want to get interested. so what better way? >> isn't she great? you'd never know she was on the campaign trail for two years. i'm kind of blown away. just watching you and a little bit of awe. >> when you watch ian meghan mc, what was the reaction? >> habit is a fan of hers before

we met. she lives talking sense in the way republicans don't often do, sometimes to do. i'll be diplomatic. they're crazy. make any sensible and speaks in a co-haraway about issues that i think has some relevance in a way that i can understand a summit is not in politics. i thought if i was going to be buddies with a republican i'd want to be buddies with her. it is like more of an entrée. her last name is irrelevant ultimately. i met her dad. he does not care for me at all. her mom and i get along famously. >> my mother and brother of the above him and my sister loves in, too. but my father, he doesn't like him. but i think now that he

has read half of it and i think he understands that we speak to a different audience. i've always spoken to a different audience. i've started been accused of being brutally honest, but i write as much to understand as to be understood. and for me talking about my life and how i feel about american is always cathartic. not to put another person but i'd love in by angelo. it's really over the top. >> ian black can what's your favorite or most memorable stop at a red state? >> i fell in love with brains in. >> both of us. >> branson was the best. i thought i would roland, snark on this place, hate this place. you could not have been more

fund, wormer, more gregarious. we went to dolly parton's and i thought this would be ridiculous. i've never had more fun at a live theatrical asked periods. i've been to broadway. dolly parton puts that into shame. they've got guys riding on horses, there's buffalo. it comes with a dinner. you eat with your hands. >> american flags. >> it's the most amazing theatrical experience i've ever had. >> they were wonderful to s. >> is a republican? >> is a family friend all i'm chad -- kind of a racy r-rated experience. branson is family-friendly and very bad and we had just an

awesome other time. i had a bit of an existential crisis and brand them by sight gag of spare not performed, but that's for a different reason. >> meghan mccain come a blue state who neither enjoy directives and enjoy. >> i had a really nice time in connecticut meeting his family. connecticut is blue, right? talking to his family and friends about some of their friends were not friends of my family and it made it very clear over dinner. his friends did not like me, but whatever. but overall we had a great time. it's interesting to have your world because you really have to face it upfront, your stereotypes and the questions you may have. >> there's a stereotype that republicans are more fun than democrats. having spent time on the road

with republicans i can absolutely confirm that it's true. republicans are a lot more fun than democrats. >> we have five and a different way than democrats do. >> i got more into guns. i've never fired a gun. megan's brother taught me to shoot. i like that a lot. >> is your brother a conservative marine? >> yeah. he's behind you. we had a great time shooting. it was about changing minds as much as trained to fear the other poisons pregnancy without judgment and prejudice. i think i changed her mind farmworker venue change mine. >> i had my mind changed on quite a few different things. i don't know if i'm allowed to say this. i marijuana legalization in america. when we went on the road and then they really met a lot of

people. i met a lot of people that gave really good ideas for change. once i did research for decriminalization and the possible financial benefits and by we imprison people for so many reasons, my opinion has been changed, which is a scary thing to admit because it's so against the republican orthodoxy and when we think of right wing conservative against me. mario cuomo at this point -- [inaudible] it's another scary thing, but that is stuck selling a book about these issues that i have to leave a lot of time to discuss and a friend whose father studies strives -- a >> he studies the effects of homogenic's as therapeutics for ptsd victims cover therapy for

ptsd victims and he makes a pretty compelling case. >> was something that really changed me. >> y à la garden. >> who doesn't love the olive garden? i eat there all the time when i'm on the road. we love fast food and chain hotels. that's the basis of our relationship. we love looking to an, mcdonald's, burger king, gringos, soda. we don't care about our help that much. >> what about the title? >> the title was megan's. >> we were actually touring the capital with one of my father's interns and it showing us his statue of lady's freedom in a congressional hall and he was sane as you can notice the sun never set on freedom. and i said america is one. that's why. it was such a ridiculous thing to say.

and they're like that's really funny. >> your charming. >> to viewers can even say i find the title chiming. >> what is the goal michael ian black? >> as megan said about people who aren't necessary politics to really start having a conversation. what do i want from a government? what do i believe in? to get people to ask the questions. it's not for people who read "politico." it's for people who may be feel intimidated by those people or people who care about their country but don't even have a way and to start talking about it. faster this book is for. it mirrors my own political education. you know, megan is fortunate to have come from a family that's obviously heavily involved.

i was sort of a born democrat away i was born jewish. i was born into it, but i never really spent any time thinking about it until i was older. and once i started doing why i believe wyatt believes or if i believe what i think i believe, that's when i question whether question. it's having a good time and having people start to ask the questions. >> and again, i feel like my past has been bringing a different audience is. we go to colleges literally all the time and many college students have entered and are so disenchanted from politics right now and everything is so polarized and they don't let it be a part of it or use their voice. and i think if we can use humor to get a very serious message across, that's very powerful. >> meghan mccain, michael ian

black. meghan mccain, your third book? but we are first two. >> i know these titles. as a memoir about my time in the camp game. >> michael ian black, also your first third book. my second one is called you're not doing it right. >> co-authors coming out in summer 2012. "america, you sexy bitch: a love letter to freedom." thank you for being on c-span. >> thank you. >> one of the impressive penguin publishing group and geneticist or retract your of publicity, carolyn coleburn. we want to ask you about some of the books coming out from viking. let's start with our friend kevin phillips. >> kevin phillips is a great historian and analyst. kevin phillips is coming up with 1775 this system are.

and by kevin dies is he debunks the net at 1776 was the watershed year of the american revolution and its dad looks at 1775 as a typical year when all the conflict are happening analyzes 1775. and it's very nuanced meticulous research. it will be controversial as many of kevin's book site. >> as fans of kevin phillips, kevin phillips to indent program. you can go to booktv.org and watch three hours of kevin phillips. go to the search function in the upper left-hand corner. someone, i want to ask you about another book coming out. the party's over. >> the parties over. it says how the republicans went

crazy, the democrats became useless in the middle-class are trapped. so the subtitle says that would make offscreen as many of your viewers as a 20 year veteran of capitol hill and he really just lays it all out on what's wrong. >> is that coming up before the election quite >> early august, just in time for conventions and before the election. >> care linda marjorie. did i say that correctly? >> yes, for american lady. it is a biography on susan mary alsop, true american aristocrat. she was married to joe alsop and was a georgetown washington d.c. socialite. kissinger once said of mary alsop have more decisions in games are made in her the finger and then white house.

she really brought so many movers and shakers in the u.s.a. and in the world together. so it is a real delight. >> did in a new biography of joe alsop came out? >> i believe so. and there's a play on broadway two. >> raycom but john lesko. bush of the know about viking? how long has that been around? >> i figured something like 79 years. i should know the birthdate of 18 and i don't and i'm sorry. i know the logo is rothwell can't come in to beautiful viking ship, so yeah. >> what kind of titles do you look for? >> award-winning series nonfiction, literary fiction. but we also enjoy the commercial fiction as well. it is so wide rant of newsmakers and we really focus on books and authors that