>> throughout the weekend, history and literature with booktv, american history tv and c-span's local content vehicles on c-span 2 and three. >> this past june, sent to his 1991 videotaped beating by los angeles police officers who were later acquitted subsequently leading to the deadly race riot was found dead in a swimming pool at the age of 47. initial reports labeled it a drowning. in april, mr. king recounted his life following that meeting and his legal problems alcohol addiction associate aftermath of the officer's acquittal. this is an hour and 15 minutes.

[applause] >> rur might step? wonderful, wonderful. you become an instant celebrity, so i know that she moving between space is very fluidly. we are very honored to have you here and had a very patient, excited energy in the audience. they are pleased to have you here. we were -- we open this conversation about you and your work and experiences by talking a little bit about you as a kid. and i shared with them some opening passages about your love of fishing. so i want to give you a chance in my prepared comments i wanted to ask you contrary to how most people know you, either as an object victim of police violence or as a controversial figure a mix of l.a. rebellion or as

someone who has been part of a longer conversation about whether these for responsibility of black people in relation to the community. and all of those version, rodney king, there is no understanding of view as a kid who loved fishing? the kid is up to and comic is his favorite past time is baseball. and i would even say something most people don't know, you were a firefighter. tell us a little bit about you as a person aside from the public figure that people think they know. >> i love life. my childhood was a good experience. i lived in the neighborhood with a pretty much mixed neighborhood. did a lot of fishing with my

pops. did a little hunting also within. i wouldn't trade the experience of being rodney as a kid for nothing. it was cicatrix variants. it was a learning experience also. >> tell us about some of that. >> i can remember when me and my three brothers, the four of us -- this is a little rough. i'll start with a rough first. you know you get older you get the chance to go out on your own, so me and my three brothers without was out and i think we went swimming in the dam that was called something like that. not handsome dan. in pasadena. [inaudible] >> yet another story. >> they don't know the whole

story. >> so we're used to being upon a different nationality of people. my mom is in the daytime and nighttime did the buildings at night. so they were taken to the employer's house sometime during the week because i was too young to be a school sometimes. i have experience being around white at an early age and playing with the kids and enjoying the company. so one day as we got older, was able to go out on our own and that particular day we ran up to the lake i was telling you about. and so when we were not there, the guy was playing frisbee and we were swimming in the mud hole. so i guess they were starting to get bored of what they were doing. they're about 18, 19, 20. there were a bit older than us because we were like eight,

nine -- eight, nine, 10 i'd say. so i was tying this rock up with a belt and he was fumbling with it trying to get it on there. and so the guy gets the rock on there and he starts swinging it around and starts cursing and stuff like that. and so i'm watching him. and always the one that notices something is about to happen for some reason. for some reason. so what i did was i got out of the water real slow, left my two brothers sending. and i was so scared because the other guy was coming down to the lake with the rock on the belt that he had. he got in that water with my oldest brother and they tie him up with the rock and rope. anyway, my youngest brother went down to the bottom.

he started screaming and hollering and that's how he got away. the older brother caught up with me? he called me all kinds of names. why did you leave you little punk classics he was cussing me out. i felt so bad because i felt helpless and i was just so scared, you know. the first time we went out as three brothers then we got ran into that kind of, you know, that brutality. >> that's what it was. the unknown behavior. the black and white. >> and i think you were -- you describe certain aspects of your childhood and you mentioned that peter about sort of a world that was that she, that it was open and you have relationships with other people, one of which is

not so much a person that you describe music. >> he was the only black guy and he loved it. that's what they listen to on the lake. it was a good experience also because my mom's religion. it was around different nationalities to people. but we have these assemblies, i'm not baptized or anything myself, but it's been a wonderful experience when i was young growing up and being able to go out there. they would write like the dodgers stadium and there'd be different nationalities of people that would come out. indian, japanese, white, black could you name it they were there. during the lunch hour we would all help in preparing the food

so we got them to know a lot about different cultures and let the lake to even stuff like that. it was such a warm feeling being withal that nationality of people. everybody wishes so happy and friendly. but you know, there is the time you had to leave and go home and build reality hit. it is so much different being out in the world and the way people treat shoe compared to beam into coming in now, a form with everybody with a fit for nationality, which is a pleasant thing to me fair and be in the mix were in the real world it's not really like that. it was quite an experience. >> you talk about sort of the ark of the book is about redemption and you describe in the book that you were influenced for your mother's

day, but did not embrace religion. am curious though in terms that sort of the full jury of childhood to the beating to the rebellion to the afterlife to today has their influence shape to an array that that even a four-part disdain we don't practice the faith, better influences some how giving you a sense of your own humanity? >> yeah, what it did was my mom's religion and having a ground like that kind of set the tone for my life, for the rest of my life and it helped me not to hang onto anger coming to an outcome would be a racist stories may brother, you know. it gave me -- it gave me structure. you know, i've something to look forward. there is a god out there.

a jehovah god out there. i always look forward to that day with the world will be at peace and everyone can come together and get along. >> you're not talking about getting them on because inquiring minds want to have a context for that. can we have the first slide. we have some pictures behind as, many familiar to you of course. >> pouch. >> yeah, this is that night. i wanted to read what i thought was one of the more moving passages as you describe actually what's happening before the camera is rolling. so this is what you describe. use the but that was not their intent and that was made brutally clear to me with one of

the officers suddenly kicked me with his boot in the side of my face, smashing my job. it felt like someone had taken a baseball bat to the head. before i could even register that unbearable pain, one of the officers slammed in the lower leg with his baton. i heard it crack it was so surprised if they immediately pleaded with melanie who is one of the arresting officers who at that point had become kind of your guardian angel, at least in your mind one who is different from the rest. i knew this was going to sound kind of strange, but up until that point i felt safe with her there at the scene, sort of a maternal presence they would not allow things to get too out of control. i shouted out to her, they don't have to do this. tell them they don't have to do this. >> yeah, real brief go into that story, you know, one is initially pulled over, i know i shouldn't have been drinking and driving, but i had a job to go

to come a union job and i paid way more money than what i was making at dodger stadium. so they called me up thursday and told me to be ready to go to work. so when i heard that, i went and got a few beers and went to my brothers house. as in let them i was going to be going to work. i did know how they would feel about that. they get a little angry sometimes. but it was all good and i went out with them we went to the dam where our daddies to take icefishing. i didn't want to be stuck in the same little community where we were at, where we grew up. there is a couple of us. so we started out and started chasing me. so the only thing i could think about was that job. i've got to make it to this job.

i start work monday night that the cops behind me. i know i've been drinking and i'm on parole. i had worked myself -- you know, when you combine a prison and you really trying to do the right thing and then all of a sudden your whole world is about to start because you're on parole and you're going back to jail, that's the only thing i could do. anyway, i lost a highway patrol car. and what happened was the helicopter was that they are in wasn't no getting away from the helicopter. my goodness. >> as she did think a minute he might not run. his virtue and a hunt a quick >> yes, hyundai excel. upgrade. >> the joke here and mr. king doesn't know this, but i was pushing a hyundai at the time. it was in exile, has a little

coupe hatchback. in fact, used to drive from philadelphia to chicago from college home in the allegheny mountains and they wouldn't get past 55. it wouldn't get past 55. so you were thinking you're in a hot rod, but she were really in a hyundai. the mac exactly. anyways, to my surprise they caught up with me. and when they caught up with me i could see them pull up on the side of me. [inaudible] pall over her. so i had to think. my heart was are the beating after the chase because that's just how it goes. i was looking forward an area to stop and where i chose to stop

there were apartment buildings of the bear, but there was nobody out. i thought if i get accurate goes badly maybe somebody will come outsiders that team. and sure enough, it went bad. so she ordered me out of the car. there were a husband and wife team. the highway patrol, the initial ones on the chase. so she came over to me. they had already ordered me out of the car can't take your right hand put it outside the car, right hand and opened the car and lay down. so i leave facedown. she came over to me and she got my wallet out of my back pocket so she could get my i.d. as she is doing that i'm looking at them. they went to the trunk and pocket real fast and the woman is trying to get the teaser out -- baton out of the car. he is running towards me. as she is walking away ice blamed on the floor face down

and i was like hey, tell them they don't have to do this because i already know what is going to happen. so when she walked away cover has been walked up to me and just whom, keep me in the temple area and broke my job. and then he asked me, how do you feel? my whole heart and morale was broke at that point. the only thing i could do was not let this guy know he got the best of me, which he did. so i couldn't even say it right. i feel fine. my job broke, blood coming out. i feel fine. so i guess the sergeant heard that. so he comes up and teased me right away. and i am being taste. he is lighting me up. i can feel the blood coming out of my mouth. and he asked me how you feel now? but couldn't say nothing. he said we are going to kill you, run.

when he said were going to kill you, run, i am going to run. i hesitated for a second. i stayed on the ground looking for a clearance at that point. i'm still on the ground looking for a clearance. when i see the clearance -- excuse me, when i see the clearance between the hyundai and the police officer, so i get up to go run, but when this like when a friend of me, i didn't know it was broke, so the leg just fell down. so when i fall down, it looks like it was able to make the camera like i was going after him because my hands were like this, but i was trying to get my hands in front of me. >> in the video still wasn't running by that time. >> that is in the video had been running -- >> so it caught that quick >> it did catch that. what he did catch is the name-calling and the teasing.

now he did that like three shots and discharged all three shots. but while he is tasing me, there's no way you can stay so with those bulls running through your body. and so can blood and electricity hitting me at the same time. so i am like feeling like when i almost burned at the house when i was a kid playing with matches in the trashcan caught on fire and two minutes later it was on fire. he had an extension cord waiting on me. somehow it felt like it prepared me for that night with the teaser. even with a thick extension cord and shock is the same feeling.

it's a horrible feeling. so when i felt that, it was like 20 times worse than an extension cord whipping. and anyway, the guy would run the teaser. so when he stops the teaser, of course i am regrouping myself, trying to see if i am still there. i am trying to stay still, but i can't. so the guy -- so he starts beating me more. so is moving company is moving. i could hear them calling me names. you'd essene and. once you start cursing and beating somebody come you really get into it. so they're really into it. so at this point i'm like man. >> you had a moment you described in the book and the

audience heard you describe it where you herself in the long history of black people experiences in the united states and you make a specific reference to sleep beatings. >> i am going to tell you what really gave me a lot of strength also that night was knowing that blacks before they went through this in slavery. and that to this day i said to myself, it was just moments -- moments to think. back in the days and still going through if they don't catch them. but i said my brothers and sisters have been to the same thing, so you have to stay alive. so you don't have time to speak of that, but you already know because you're being beat by people other than your color.

i whole instinct is i cannot die out here. i cannot let these people kill me. i've got to prove what happened to me. so i could end up being handcuffed and everything. the only thing i could do was hold onto my shoes and i think it was a shirt that i still had in the hospital. i thought that was the only evidence i had. i said to myself, nobody's going to believe me. you've got on the shoes in his pants. so after a couple days they wheeled me into another room and it was the black policewoman came in and she said baby, we've seen it all on tape. to go back a little bit with the and the highway patrol they did their, i felt like everything was going to be okay but there is a female out there that night. so i thought it was going to be different. and then you move back forward.

>> you're talking about the african-american female police officer. >> yak on the female officer in the county jail worked there. she said we seen it all on tape. you just lay down there and get yourself well for you can get through this. it's all on tape, don't worry about it. she said they got it all on tape. i don't believe it. so they wheeled me into another part of the jail and the inmate must have got wind of it on tv somehow and when i got america to walk or nothing to do is picking me up, carrying me up to the window. which one of them did it? there was white boys that the mayor, mexicans was ready to riot. one of them on this site, one of them on this site. the cops was all looking in there, wanting to see how much damage was done on me. it was like which one of them did it? i couldn't even talk because my job is all broke.

so i tried to tell them it's not done. they was ready to riot in that jail that day. >> one thing you describe, which will be obvious to the audience is that you actually hadn't been charged with anything at that point. >> no. >> were you conscious of that at that point? how quickly did someone use that as evidence that maybe the officers realized they had overstepped their bounds because clearly what the encounter actually looked like, there should've should been some reckless driving, excessive eating, but at this point you have neither been charged. >> right because it was too horrible i guess for them to even press charges. i got lucky because i had a black parole officer, so he understood what went on. he told me, hey, man, you won't be getting violated on this.

he said you've got to do something about this. you get yourself well so we can stay focused on what's got to be done. you've got some work to do, but don't worry about me. you won't be getting violated by me. >> so we're running a little late, but i wanted to get you to talk about -- he made reference to expectation that preceded the moment that you actually are highly pulled over, and that you expected this kind of violence. just briefly sort of talk about what that was talk about because the book does describe an expectation prior to that moment when he talked of mr. parents, your father's alcoholism analogy yourself drink a lot as a young adult and sometimes you make decisions as a young person driving too fast, et cetera.

i want to get a broader sense of what it was like to be a young, black man in los angeles in the 1980s, were you had this expectation of violence. and then i want to talk about the trial itself is something to share about the audience of what you describe from one of the officers. >> well, where i grew up that, you know, i could see it was a police car and they had a lot of pings and dance in it. i was writing my bike some days and there was a spot right off of the road and i could see sometimes cops bring in guys they are coming handcuffed them to the car and just beating them real bad. >> this is a secluded area. >> yes, secluded area. it's in the mountains.

it is a road up to it. but their stress, by jove. not too many people go up there in a few that there, but it is a good spot to take prisoners out there and beat them out. one day one of the police have stopped me and said you know who this is from. this is from -- that is my 10th grade they are. you could extend back here? that is john's face right here. which one of the stents you going to be? >> these are people you knew? >> estimate these are are people i knew. police brutality -- they stopped bringing prisoners to the shared station in california where they've because they were saying the prisoners was hanging themselves and if they kill themselves. so it's just too many accidental deaths going on at the station. >> quote, unquote. >> too many accidental death at

the station so they don't even bring them anymore. they bring them out to glendale. it's just a holding take now. they hold them for a couple hours. they take them to the next city over. it was so brutal. >> so good then bad experiences well known in your community among your peers, given now what's just happened to you, you are going into the trial a year later with what? expectations that justice will be served? >> simi valley, the first week to the court hearing in simi valley and my lawyers tell me you stay home. don't come to the core. we don't want you to lose and put the case. and i am at home just going crazy because i can't be there to speak for my own self as my

case. i was just so discombobulated. >> the district attorney actually chose not to ask you to testify, which banned the defense or the jury held against you. explain that to them a little because it seemed to make sense from the district attorney's standpoint but you might not necessarily incriminate yourself, but the physical evidence, be it the jury said if he really was not a provocateur. not the cause of this. >> yeah. >> the pcp was in play. you are in psychedelic drugs, uncontrollable, tragedy officers. >> they never found pcp in my blood anywhere, they still use the pcp thing. they thought i was on pcp. but yeah, the da told the prosecutors, he would tell my attorney to make sure you keep them away. so he kept me away.

they just are we so bad because i'm watching all the reporters did a wonderful job. and you know, they were real honest. you could see him of steers and the cameraman dies, like how come these guys didn't get convicted? but then you have, what is your name? nancy grace? >> not the same nancy grace. >> the same nancy grace. she is inside the courthouse. if this really happened to rodney king, why isn't rodney king here? where is he at? and must not have been that bad. why isn't he here? in my case almost got judged just by some of the things she was out there saying during the two weeks she was there. i hate how it just irked me when she had herself in front of the courthouse trying my case outside the courthouse as a

reporter. >> do you think it matters they were tanned white jurors, one hispanic and one asian? >> it definitely had an impact on my case. absolutely. you have to have one of your peers on your case, especially if your same nationality because they don't know anything about you, even a person of your own color doesn't know anything about you, but at least they understand a little bit more. ..

because i'm going do my job and i almost lost my life because of procedures. but what it boils down to is god having fun on a job and it was a patted earn that they always did. no one -- you don't -- i couldn't see someone like that if i had beat someone like that before. it was a routine beat. and i just happened to survive through it. >> you described as it happened later that one of the officers lawrence powell was recorded prior to your counter income of the previous call. i'm going to read what you wrote. you said that, so the question of basically where the cops

racist enforces some kind of racial protocol in los angeles that young black man with beaten with immunity and be justifiable. if the question of the ray similar of the l.a. police department was on trial, the jury said it wasn't about race. it was about rodney's king's behavior it was an acceptable response to the behavior. i don't know that powell was racist. evidence shows submitted in court shows that twenty minutes before he beat me he sent a computer message, quote, this is powell writing sounds almost exciting as i last call. so the call for him come in. sounds almost as exciting as the last call. it was right out of gorilla in the mist. lawyer tried in the trial tried to dismiss it by saying it

wasn't necessarily racist. it he been on the domestic violence call. the characterization of that he finished up with gore riel will. it was evidence submitted by the district attorney as evidence of preexisting mind set that proceeding your actual encounter. to the day, i mean, even as you wrote the words in the book, does it surprise you as it passed as of not being racist in terms what a jury is willing to say is evidence of racism or not. >> it's fightens me. it was difficult racist, you know, and i know know that everybody else knows that. and the bad thing about it was, it was two black cops that were school cops. in fact we left them in the lawsuit, they left them. i told them to let them go. we were lucky to get the two that we got. i would have been happy if we

could have gotten the four or the five even with the highway patrol. that would have been fun. i was happy to get some type of justice. but -- i miss my point. >> there is another example from the juries that i think is important to setting the context of this which is that one of the jurors, in an interview afterwards, basically described characterize the frame of this is important. we have evidence that one of the officers refer to a you are tune domestic call as gorilla. we have a juror later describing the lack of criminal behavior on the part of the officer you weren't harmed by what they did. it was a characterization of you as basically being able to take the beating, as since you weren't really harmed by it how could be an instance of excessive force. is that a fair characterization of the jurors.

>> yes. it was hurting to -- what made me realize was that blacks have been treated very bad in the past, you know, i wouldn't ever have wanted to live back in the '0s or be born in the, you know, in the '50s because i don't see how they a way for us to this day. >> ron paul on this particular point about the stereo type and the demonization of stigma of black men. in this case, you have basically compared to having animal. -like strength. we can see the video. there's question in the trial, those blows were missing. they weren't clean strikes and you argue that the prosecutor actually submitted one of the batons as evidence just so all the jurors could hold the physical baton. ron paul, interestingly as a presidential candidate in this

election cycle, describes in one of the news letters that proceeded the trayvon martin tragedy that six foot tall 13-year-old black boys should be feared as if they were adults purely because of their size. this is a legitimate response to the fear. legitimate response to their size and physical callty. it strikes me that in your case, not only did the jury penalize you as being deserving because of your size but police officers made sport of your physical size by giving you a little bit extra. >> yeah. and, i mean, it's a sad case because, you know, it's been going on so long, you know, that it's been going on song that even some of the black policeman that work in the l.a.d out

there. and probably everywhere to where -- they over the years so they keep their jobs, and it has got ton the point where people have almost became numb to it. thank god for the video tape. because what it did was kind of whoop -- woke the minds up for people. had it not been for the beating on video tape, it would be a lot worser than what they are now. it's been going on song, and, you know, we've done so much work since lay or days since the release of days and up to this day, we have always been the person this had go out and do the dirty jobs in war, you know, in some jobs that we don't like and accepting things we don't like, and once you have been

underdog so long it's easy for everybody else to come in to the country to treat the -- have the same attitude also. it's the same that, you know, it went on. i understand it now because it's becoming, you know, the country is we've got modern tools to work with now. i mean, i don't agree with what happened what went on. but, you know, we should be way past the stigma point where the black man is always the bad guy and watch out for him. but if you were oppressed for 300 years and been told that yous a bad guy over the years. people would start thinking you're really the bad go. you know, it's a shame that some of us. trayvon martin had to lose his life, you know, in order to for things to change, you know. because there will be a change after that one. >> can we see just a run of the

slides around the rebellion. because they transition us to talk about about trayvon martin in the remaining trim. so steve, can you take us back to the rebellion slide? okay. and can you just run through? these are the korean her changes that were defending their property during the mist of the riot. there's a couple of more. real stakes, real property, real violence. >> those are people are fed up. you know. they were fed up. >> i think there is one more. okay. so pause on the image. this image comings from our collection of malcolm x's papers, and this is a response to a police raid on islam temple

in 1962, where two african-american members of that temple were killed according to the nation in cold blood, by the lapd. it spurred malcolm x to a much more aggressive position on antipolice brutality. he carried that. it was located near harlem. i thought this was a powerful image of the headline there will reads "seven unarmed know grows shot in cold blood by los angeles police." it gives us a historical frame you were born in 1965, right this this is three years before rodney king was born. it certainly gives some richness and texture, did you know about this? >> no. i didn't. but but it's there's been so many films i've seen. i'm always, you know, curious to

see that footage and type of bold footage that exists just -- compared to where we are today. >> it echoes your point about the deep foundational faich of urban policing and the repression of, you know, either innocent bystanders, citizens, or politically conscious folks pushing back against the racial status quo in that moment. next slide. you make reference to both the 1965, l.a. rebellion, i'm sorry the 1965 riot, it sort of set the stage for the world you came in to. just in a matter of criminology, it's an interesting space and time to come in to that -- to be part of the larger community. you also tie that moment, your own experience to katrina. and this is an image of kathleen

blank koa's swat team that was sent in to new orleans to deal with the then problem of looting, which became another racialized metaphor in the particular moment for black people who were facing the most desperate of circumstances. and one of the interesting ironies about this particular moment was all the mythologies about the crime and violence and race that's that was happening. 95% proved to be absolutely untrue. >> false. >> and even in the ap reporting of katrina, you saw the juxtaposition of african-american going in to stores to get things, now again, i'm not here absolving people of whatever wrong doing they committed in the mist of that moment. nevertheless, when was it was

whites who were captured with appropriated objects, they were sent to have "found" them. it's fascinating to see the racialization. but there's a sense of the presence, the long standing presence of police to some kind of occupying army. what did you think about katrina in the moment ab and what did you think about the news reports of looting, i mean, were you saying to yourself this is going to be l.a. all over again. are you saying to yourself i guess we still can't get along. what was your response. >>man, it was hocialg because i was just so scared for , i mean, because they have, you know, they had floods to deal with, on top of that they, you know, i know they had cops doing running around getting god gis and them

getting blamed for it. it was a sad moment, you know, for people period, you know. it was just sad moment. it felt like it was -- it looked like it could have gotten worse than what happened down in l.a. but i just can't believe, you know, how things go from bad to worse first these days and we're in moderate times, you know. and >> right. >> it's just unbelievable that it happens here in america. you know, to see what, you know, to get bad credit and get blamed and picked on and bullied on, you know, as a race of people, you know, i just -- it looses me. i get lost in my own country sometimes. i know, we have came a little ways, you know. but like martin luther king

said, inte have a long ways to go and we should always be, you know, working toward a better tomorrow or, you know, and always talk about race relations in this country. we should stay on it because . >> vigilant about it. >> yes. because no one suffers but the blacks. i'm going tell you. everybody suffers, you know what i mean? minorities. thank goodness for the whites and other nationalities and come and make people realize this is really happening. these guys are going through it. my heart goes out to people of this color and who have died for a good cause and, i really -- inside it warms me up and i want tears for them. if it wasn't for a lot of prayers from everybody, all different nationalities praying for the good for the country and

in my situation, praying for me, i wouldn't be alive to this day. any spirits would have been broken a long time ago had it not been for all colors coming together and this is america. >> it sounds like . >> this is how we do it in this part of the globe. it's just not enough of them, man. but the mans that have, we have it really makes a difference. it my hat really goes off to them because it's hard for us to do it on your own. >> it sound like your mom's belief system really has helped you to be grounded in something optimistic. >> yeah. >> believe in humanity. >> the next slide, please. i wanted this one to be in play because it brings us in to a sharp focus with where we are in this particular moment. even katrina, for some people, is ancient history, and yet we're not even out of the

situation of the trayvon martin yet. we're here. you may not have heard was a news report about a facebook group run by about 1200 members of the n.y.p.d. sympathizers and allies. we haven't verified all 1200 members of the force. in response to the annual west india day parade which is a cultural celebration in brooklyn. they complain about having to do the beet. in the complaint they share publicly on facebook what they thought about the black parade. we're not talking about a rough set of 19 years olds who were feeling their ode to be disrespectful and macho and pushing people around. we're talking about everybody. and so, this is the photograph that appeared in an article where two lawyers had actually captured the whole conversation and i among that conversation,

was a caption that in reference to the parade goer as animals and savages, and we should drop a woman and wipe them all out. one office said, we don't anything maybe they'll kill themselves. so this is going back to that gorilla in the midst comment. one of these moments where we don't have to abstract what members of our local law enforcement community -- not everybody, think of the people they're speosed to serve and protect and this article came out in december of 2011. it suggests we might be moving in the wrong direction. the lessons of your experience may be lost to a generation, and that in fact, you know, these young officers as we see here, they don't look necessarily by veterans of the force have learned nothing from what your experience taught. do you feel that way in, i mean,

i know you have described a lot of optimism. i'm curious, how would you process something like that. what would you tell a 18-year-old growing up in harlem. it's hard to hide from. it's a daily experience. we had a 18-year-old marley graham killed in the own bedroom. he was suspected of selling marijuana on the street corner. cop gave chase, he ran, and got to his home before the police officer got there, they broke in to the house. he was in the bathroom allegedly flushing whatever pot. if you can run that fast with pot, you don't have that much. they killed him in the grandma when the grandma and the younger brother were there. what do you sell young people? >> it's a horrible thing to speak on. i'm going to tell you when

things like that happen, we have people -- people can, you know, get ourself in a position that every time a situation like that happens, when it's not reasonable, we should make moves to where we can fire -- have those officers fired every time. it's happening too often now. the only way they stop is if they start losing their jobs. [applause] that's the only way. you have the type of situation where everybody has to come together and demand the person be removed from the force. it's going happen again. when it happens it makes it okay for that guy, that guy, and that guy do it. then the rookies that come up after them it's going to be ingrained in them. it's taken us a long time to get this far but, you know, it's -- we the people have to step up to the plate and demand that, you know, when there's an unjustble killing, someone needs to be

fired. or someone needs to go to jail, you know. they -- if they are on the police force. they need to be fired because you can't bring another life back. once it leaves here, it's gone. >> it's ironic. >> i'm sorry. >> it's god to do his next thing and, you know. no man should be able to take another man's life wearing the type of uniform. it's a scary feeling for someone to invade your life and space like that. it's -- it puts me -- it put me back many years. i can't imagine what it was like to live back in the days. >> something like that happen . >> they got to get rid of them. they have to. >>, i mean, in the case of marlin graham or trayvon martin, it almost makes surviving one of these encounters seem like a blessing in disguise in a strange way. if that's the standard by which we can judge in terms what we

you can expect in encountering police officer. new york city is the world's ling csh in terms of size police force bigger than some arm nice in small countries and it has beans fied surveillance of black and brown youth in countries something like 700,000 last year young people were stopped and fristed. which only intensified and increases such encounters that can lead to the kinds of episodes. it's interesting that you mention holding policing accountable. i'm curious, can we go to the next slide? i wrote something in mentioning you knowing your anniversary was coming in -- that is -- not at the time not knowing your memoir was going to be out. i wanted to take on the way in which larger conversations about racist policing about the use of

police violence to repress the freedom of black people have literally civil liberties as young black and brown people in the country. walk freely without molestation has been reversed and the instead of that being the problem, the problem is black people killing or harming each other. and i called this playing the violence card write mentioned you and your particular moment as a moment where the conversation was shifting again to your violence. so it was your behavior that ill lied the legitimate response just like trayvon martin should not have been walking suspiciously in a hoodie in that neighborhood. he's equally as responsible for george zimmerman taking his life. that's playing the violence card. whether it's symbolically because you look violent or because in your case you're

being electrocuted. the next slide for trayvon. so in the case of trayvon, we have been watching the story unfold reality time. it's interesting that bill lee, the captain of the stanford police department submitted a letter of resignation. kind of a form of accountability you called for. a police department did not. they didn't call his parents. he was sitting as a joe dough for throw days. they brought george zimmerman in to the questioning but what was released within a matter of hours. case closed. trayvon martin was provocateur. there was stand "stand your ground" law. and lee decided to resign until the wake of the controversy. i guess what happened you probably know, as of today they

reported that local citizens stood up in defense of him compelled the city council to refuse to accept his resignation therefore endorsing the police response as acceptable and legitimate. i can't help but think twenty years on the anniversary we were are repeating history as you said. we are saying it's okay for young black men to die when we people we as citizens we feel as a legitimate fear that we can brand and stigmatize to all of them as potential threats. it's unfortunate outcome. you can let the trayvon martin slides runs. as mr. king makes his final remarkings in reference to trayvon martin's case and share with us what he makes of it us and we're with are and should be going. we will have a few minutes for questions. we ran a little long for

starting late. please come over to the microphone so it can be recorded if you have questions. in the interest of everyone here, make it snappy so more people get a shot. length of time tell us, you know, here rethis moment. we are with trayvon. police violence are on the table. young black men are suability to a level of scrutiny that is a form of racism here in my opinion here in new york city, florida, citizens get to behave in such ways. what should we be learning in light of what happened to you that we apparently aren't learning in the trayvon martin case? [inaudible] i'm sorry. here's a situation the -- the situation the guy is trying to, you know, look good for the police, you know, look like he's

a helping a neighborhood and he knows that, hey, if i kill one of these black guys, i'm going get away with it and that was the case, again, because it's been going on so long to, you know, where everybody they think everybody is going to believe it. but what i -- what i think is i know that i'm not going to make too much comment about it. i want it to have a fair outcome and the family needs healing and they need justice. we need justice for trayvon, and anyone we can get -- anywhere we can get. it whether the law be changed, but something different has to take place because i myself have felt the same fear and been chased down the same way this young man had his life tooken.

so, you know, the law "stand your ground" law, that seems like it was a law put in place for, you know, minorities to me, you know, i can -- it's a lot of people that you can look at a certain black person and if he looks scary, he looks scary to me too. i'm not scared of him. he may look like he looks but i'm not scared because i'm black. i know, the feeling. you know, know what i mean? it's easy for somebody to say, you know, i feel threatened by this person. you know, like this guy, he didn't feel threatened. he follow the guy down the street in. he's older than this young man, you know, and active just uncalled for, you know. and it's a shame that that kind of stuff is going on and this person can get away with it in my lifetime, you know, and the

truth of the matter is we got to come together as people and somehow make it to where these type of situations just don't go, you know, unpunnished like that because, you know, what happened to him -- somebody else is going to be next. it's a matter of time. so what we need to do as people, you know, come together. >> this is a good thing. >> what do you mean it's a good thing. >> protest. >> always a good thing. these people here, they can get out there and march when we can't. i'm glad al sharpton and jesse jackson are still alive. >> the naacp. >> and the guy here. all of them. the people that get out there and march for this pep they have a voice for us when we don't. and some of the ones that beat senseless are still living. these type of people are what is

paying the way, you know, for those cases. when they come down the line they can, you know, deal with them a lot better instead of being able too get away. but when something like this happens, the laws needs to be looked. they need to change things. there's a lot of laws that are outdated and too old. there a a lot of new ones that don't even make sense, you know. i look around, you know, sometimes in any neighborhood and i miss all the little friends i had. i had i didn't have horrible experience. i mismy own color. look around now and i don't even see -- i see just a handful of them, you know, it's like the -- it's a hurting feeling to go down the street knowing that your people had to move because of, you know, whatever reason they had to move and you don't see the own kind around anymore. and you go-to-look what's going

in the jail and you have half of them are in jail half of them are sitting in jail for nothing for cases they didn't do. i would be in jail now if the police had it their way on a violation. luckily i had a little bit of money to get out of this trouble there and that trouble there. it's got to be hurting feeling when you sit in jail for a little bit of something petty and your whole life is gone you know what i mean? >> we're going to stop there. c-span has been graciously live streaming the conversation, it may be wrapping up now. i want to thank them in case they decide to end the web cast. [applause] that way your story will reach as many people as possible. i think it's a powerful one and one that hold tremendous lesson for us because we are continuing to face challenges around the

issues of the social justice around police brutality and the quality of life and communities of color. so i'd like to operate floor up. i'm going to be a little pushy, if grow long, because i want everyone to have a chance. >> okay. [inaudible] hello i'm an activist. i'm somebody that work on the issue all my life. my question is basically of black responsibility. i thought i heard you said earlier there was black officers there when you were beaten. >> yeah. there was two black police officer on the scene. >> while you was being beaten. what did they do? >> they didn't do anything. they ended up suing me at the end of the case for leaving it. they called it a go bough gus lawsuit $26 ,000 i had to pay them. >> that was my question. another thing about black responsibility. because i'm an activist i tell it. my question to you, this was a case that went all over the world.

i mobilized people in the community around your issue and everything as i said i'm an activist my whole life. you made strong statements here today. what have you done in eight will of the cases. have you marched with any particular people you spoke about reverend sharpton, jackson, anybody on the west coast in light of the case. we have police brutality cases outside of your own. i'd like to know if you have done anything as a result of you to help someone else. >> yeah. ever chance i get when i have -- a speaker the camera in front of me. i always speak on these types of issues every time i get a chance to. as far as actually giving outing there and marching like that, i haven't gotten out there like that yet. but not afraid to. by no means not afraid to. and we'll give an opportunity when the situation is right not a problem with me.

>> okay. thank you. >> thank you. >> hello my name is roy weatherers. i worked for ten years and i work with the adolescence kids from 16 to 18 years old. my question or sometime you is that do you feel -- that the african-american males particularly adults need step to the plate in that we can't be afraid of our kid, if you see a young man doing something that is inappropriate, for example, the other day i was on a subway and the kid stood up and started using problem fanty. i approached him and told him, you know, that was inappropriate, and do you feel that more of of the males need to do that when we see our young men acting in an inappropriate away as opposed to not paying any attention to it and letting it go by with, and another

question on top of that, i'll stop there. i think that our african-american women in general -- i think that i feel their conversation even though we adds black men have messed up and made a lot of mistakes that the conversation around us should be more in a positive realm as 0 poised to a negative realm. so i'm asking two questions. one, do you feel . >> you got. i'll help him. [laughter] how to help young men who may be doing self-directive things in public or private, and then whether the ladies are given us too much of hard way to go. >> you know, -- okay. let's go to the young guys first. it's okay to speak up to them. me, if you're older. be careful because some are

violent, you know. they're going pull a pistol out. it's the truth. all right but it's about how you go at them. you say, hey, bro, you can use that. it's hard to approach them. hey, bro, you know, it's a way you can go about it, you know. you humble yourself to be able to tell them in a soft way. >> right. >> we need you with that type of energy to be doing this and that. i know, what you mean. it's about how you -- not everybody but it's about how you approach a person and god at them. >> right. my time has proved they can be approachable. >> right. it's about how you go at them. >> the second one? >> was about the reputation what roles sisters can play in lifting up brothers. is the question. not my question. >> i've had some really -- i've had some really, you know, women are are really strong. they are very, very that's how i

survived all these years, you know, -- [inaudible] most of it i've had to depend on women a lot to get to this point where i'm at today and -- [applause] and i'm not just saying that, you know, just to get on the women's good side. it's strew. -- true. i have needed a woman to help me out in a lot of situations that i couldn't have a male help me do or, you know, i haven't gotten this far with just males. i have gotten this far with women. and males but my hat goes off to the lady, you know, that have helped me over the years. your species is a -- [laughter] it's one i'll never understand. it is a real strong one.

and some women with can really surprise you, you know. they have their own way of . >> let's go. [laughter] i have gotten this far. >> okay. peace brothers. my name is [inaudible] and i'm a lifelong activist also. my question is what individuals and/organizations in los angeles are on the forefront of fighting police brutality right now? and my second question is, if you had a chance to talk to president obama, because i was very disappointing with how he handled when skip gate was arrested in his own house. i thought it was an opportunity to deal with the police community relations, if you had a chance to talk to president obama, what would you suggest to him as a way to move forward on this issue take taken in to consideration the white black lash because of the white majority population in this

country. >> umm, if i had the opportunity. umm . >> you better get ready you might get a call. >> you look out. >> you know i would ask them to make issues about. speak on it, you know. speak more about it now that you're in officer, you know, that the people have gotten you in there and black and whites have waited for long time to get you in there, you know, spoke out on some of those issues a lot more, you know. because that's one of the reasons why you are in the office now also, you know. no man can prase to the earth. no man will be able to do that at all. you can sure make it a lot easier by putting the issues on the forefront and while you're in the office in that position. speak on the issues that will help, you know, the black community and minorities and a lot more than what, you know, has been going on, you know,

we've been shoved garbage for too long and not spoken on. >> are there a cupful organizations that you have worked with over the years or that you want to give a shout out to that have done god work in the community that have stand police violence. almost all of yo know the division of the l.a. police department was exposed for terrible cases of corruption and brutality planting drugs on suspects. killing suspects and the feds took over open the federal desent decree. it happened after you but certain powerful evidence what was going on on the l.a. police force on the darrell gates. any of those grassroots organizations that were fighting against that? >> the naacp for one, that was one. they had a real strong voice when what happened to me what happened.

and, you know, my hat goes off to them. not too many of the others i'm not familiar with. i'll be hon west you but the naacp has been helped me other the years. >> okay. >> ma reduce lewis. i'm a city correction officer. and you alluded to the fact that mr. king, when was your incarceratedded how the inmated treated. you were a bonn bonn fied hero. i think you should consider doing community work even in a san quentin close -- [inaudible] so you should -- [inaudible] >> thank you. i will. i will. [applause] >> okay. my question two-fold basically

one i heard you do an radio interview last week. you made an observation of the crime in trayvon martin case, and you said that in your own opinion based on your experience, that sounded like a death crime. you could relate to that. of course, the experts came together unanimously said it was not zimmerman's crime but they didn't say it was trayvon martin's crime. could you speak to that. secondly, if you would -- both much you all, if you will. address this piece. the historically black man in it country has been an endangered species. okay the day with got on the slave ship to trayvon martin post trayvon martin to latest. we've had several since trayvon martin. there's an effort to raise the issue as human rights vims malcom toddle us years ago we need to take it before the world

court. that's an effort to make it a reality. will you join in on that. and i would like to get insight from both much you on the second question. >> the first question about the cry intimated connection to that way of suffering. >>, you know, i'm all too familiar with this. it was a same screaming and hole hollering that i did twenty years ago. it's no doubt in any mind that i knew i was supposed to have been dead and that i was screaming for my life, the same scream that this david boy was hollering and screaming. it doesn't take me but second to know the scream as a death scream just before you're about to die. the same scream, there's no difference. >> and to the question of the future of activism, building on malcolm x's own organizing

around bringing america's racial injustices before the world community and the u.n. shifting the focus from civil rights to human rights. i think we have heard a lot about sort of what you think about if you had a final thought how important that is today for organizing around this, and international context and to draw on the many resources and communities and political players as possible. >> it is definitely a need for, you know, to have all those different organizations in this world that we live in now because, you know, before things get better, the truth is with that they will get worse, you know, and so it's -- this is definitely a need for all those different organizations.

as long as they are doing their right thing, you know, and the organization is, you know, solid but there is definitely a need for it. like i said, i wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for a lot of movements and civil rights movement back in the days. people that died before me. they set the ground work for my. it was a fight all the way, you know, to receive justice in my case and without the marchs and stuff in the past, and, you know, in the lives that was lost there wouldn't be no me here today. there wouldn't be a lot of us. so, you know, -- i hate it's not a lot of programs that young kids can go to these days too, you know. when i was coming up, it was programs that kinds of preparedded us for the world, you know, we get together and we go on these camps with the parks and be a part of the community

and go in the grass and doing stuff for the city and cleaning streets. bedid that as a group. they don't have anything like that. it was kind of like the last of little bit of the last of that going on the organization with the communities and stuff. so those -- these organizations that you're talking about, they have really helped over the years, you know. they really . >> i just add to that that we are in an era of mas incarceration and we clearly as a political project choose ton spend money to build prison and warehouse people. we have chooseen to treat drugs as a criminal offense in stark contrast to alcohol which mr. king will tell you is not a productive drug of choice. but it's perfectly legal. it contributes to far more deaths in country alcohol-related accidents and

incidents and homicide all together. stripping all narcotics related deaths. so these are all political comoises. and the way we choose to enforce drug laws the way that we choose to enforce large -- are all political choices. it takes a political process to unravel that i would simply say that one of the thicks that is important to me as an individual in taking on the issue is unraveling the voices of what i call the silent black majority. they function in many ways in the same with way that the silent white majority that we're all too familiar with which is to say they make this about behavior and not about politics and not about policy. as long as it remains a question about individual behavior, as long as it is about what you say to the young man on the subway and not the community he comes

from or the school he just left or generally despised in the society there was a somebody waiting to put him in a pis as opposed to educating him. if we're not going to have the conversations at the same time to advice him to have proper manners in public then we're part of the problem. and so that to me is something that we all have to contribute to. [applause] that brings us to the end of the program. please, pleetion, please, please -- please join me out in the atrium for a book signing with mr. king, and since we are all here together. please join me in one final round of applause. [applause] [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] tonight on booktv steven recounts the look of naval architect wilt yams gibbs and the creation of the ss united states. the fastest ocean liner to pass the atlantic. >> he was a shy child. spent most of the time tinkering and dolgding in the family's house. his father wanted him to be a lawyer. he felt that being a naval architect wasn't a stable job. they lose their mansion and beginnings is forced to drop out and he basically said if it wasn't for the fact my father -- if my father had not gone bankrupt i would not have had the drive i had have today to remaining myself. so he ended up working his way through colombia to get the ba and the law degree practiced law

for one year. hated it. and eventually apprenticed thoims a 1/2 really -- taylor taught him what he needed to learn. he moved to new york and started a successful practice not just designing the ships but navel ships. he designed 70% of all naval vessellings both during world war ii which is an incredible achievement, destroyers, cruisers, the normandy craft, the man responsible for the liberty ship, the iconic liberty ship which was mass produced cargo ship that helped win the war. basically build ships faster than the germans can sink them. that was the way to build. his mind set. even thought the very successful career, he still remains focus on the grand prize, building his ship. >> watch the entire book of it interview on the work a man and

his ship. tonight at 8:30 p.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> well, well known author jeffrey is joining us here in new york city at book expo america to talk about the new upcoming book, "oath: the obama white house versus the supreme court." i want to focus on the first part of this. is there a contest between the obama white house and the supreme court. >> you bet. this is a moment in the history we have a lib trail democratic spt and a conservative dominated supreme court and an issue after issue you see a real conflict. >> what are some examples of the conflicts? >> the most dramatic that we have already seen is the the case where the court struck down -- [inaudible] giving the campaign in a broader

sense set in motion a process of deregulating american campaign and in a remarkably vivid demonstration of the conflict many people will remember the 2010 state of the union address where the president attacked the supreme court to their face and samuel shock his said and said not true. it was, you know, the supreme court often deals in abstractions. whey loved about the scene it was an abstract. it was concrete. you saw the conflict and the health care case is an even greater conflict between the sceftd on the court and the obama administration. >> we're taping this interview. it's june 5, twflt it will run all summer because the book doesn't come out until september. the health care decision could come down any monday in june. >> right. my money is on june 25th.

it will be decided by the end of the month. >> when the case comes down. is that when your book finishes. >> yeah. i will rush to complete the book -- the book is basically written at this point. i will be able to include the health care case. >> so if it is overturned, and it's entirety, what does that mean? >> it would be a decision ever ethics to the board even if they only overturn the individual mandate which based on the oral argument seems to me the most likely result. you know, not since the 1930s about famous conflict between another liberal president and another conservative supreme court, have you -- would so you have -- that's the closest parallel to what's going on now because these stakes are nearly as high. >> well, mr. obama has been president now for four years, and if he gets reelected another

year. he's already appointed supreme court justice, who is the next likely retirement. >> it's harder to tell whether the election of 2008 happened, it was all but certain that david an john were going leave. that was more or less and open secret they were on they way

am yule and john roberts reflect the modern republican party. the polarization we see in congress we now see in the united states supreme court. so that, to me, is the roberts court. it is a more conservative court than william ever lead. >> in fact in your book you describe john robert as a radical. >> i co. the book called "oath" and it begins with the story the box oath that everybody remembers so well. knob tell us the story why it was botched. that's how i open the book. and it is both, i think an interesting story on the own, but it also sets up the duoprotagonist barack obama and john roberts and the paradox is that the man who claimed to be the candidate of change and the

supreme court justice who claimed to be the baseball umpire who didn't want to change the e rules have pre-- precisely reversed position. its obama that is trying to preserve what the court did. and it is john roberts trying to change the rules. >> why was it botched? >> it begins with an misdirected e-mail. john roberts and his staff very meticulously, john does everything meticulously wrote out how he was going to divide up the words of the oath. he very carefully had his staff remail it to the congressional campaign, the congressional nag recall committee. that group never forwarded it to the president elect's office. obama did not know how roberts

was going dwoid the oath. if you see what the source of the confusion obama jumps in before roberts expected him to do it. roberts got flustered. that was a problem. >> do they have any kind of personal relationship. >> none. none. not antagonistic, not friendly, just not nonexistent. they come from different worlds. there are interesting parallels done their lives both they are about six years apart in age, both are products in different ways of chicago. obama came of age in -- as a community organizer, john roberts was born and raise in the nosh indiana sort in the outskirts of chicago both are productsing of harvarded law school. both are products of the harvard law review. both have one marriage and two

young children. but the difference is far greater than the similarity. ..