come out. was it an em barcoed book. >> it is when you have prominent politician you want to keep a book underwraps because the media is so hungry to get ahold of it. you have to keep a book underwraps. >> and well known author who has been on booktv many times. larry. >> history book "patriot history the modern world" from spanish american war through the world war ii. historian in ohio, and his take is to give conservative perspective on history. he feels that most academics tbb you may not agree with, most academics and have professors have a little really liberal bias in american history and the atomic bombs. he feels there's room and need for a conservative perspective on the history of herk and the world. and spreaghs book was a big best

seller called the patriot history of the united states. >> and what is your background in publishing? >> i was a history major. like a lot of people. i never planned to go in to publishing. it was an accident of circumstance when i got out of college. but it's been endlessly fascinating for more than tbentd years because you're forever meeting interesting authors and learning new things look ongoing education. >> being at sental are you personally conservative. >> i guess there's i did diversity within the company. i think our commitment is to finding and bringing out authors who have interesting points of view that are not as well represented as maybe in other parts the listing industry. that's our concern. >> one more book we want to ask you about former governor huckabee. >> we love him. this will be the fourth book with him. deer chandler and dear scarlet."

it's thoughts on everything and he wants his grandchildren to know for the future. it's interesting with politicians. they sometimes they dot books with nothing about politics. we're excited to have governor huckabee. a wonderful man. >> we've been talking with will. >> thank you very much. coming up next walter isaacson recounts the personal life of steve jobs the cofounder of apple computers. he authored the biography on steve jobs who passed away from cancer the past august. from the computer history museum in mountain view california, this is about an hour and a half everybody associated with museum we're absolutely delighted

you're here. i want to thank our good friends who have sponsored the entire revolutionary series season one as we're calling it now. and also from the software. they provided sport for the speaker series. in connection with with ref luges their i'm delighted to announce a partnership qkqed. they have partnered to produce a series that will premier on publishing television. it's going to be the best or on c-span, by the way, they are both here tonight. this is the lineup that's starts january 16 enwill go for 13 weeks. of course, walter isaacson, mark

zuckerberg, and. inventer of wattson. paul allen, jane, the expert in gaming around the world within npr laura, pulse diser prize winner jane smiley, journalist steven levey, david heartily of the british computing system society and property -- black hawk down author who is here with a guy from microsoft. venn -- venture capital legend and eric of microsoft and peter of google. two of the leading experts in of the world this is a lineup. we feel very privileged to have

had every single one of these people on the stage in the last twelve months. we are looking forward to kicking off season two. keep an eye on mailbox, museum news letter and the e-mail we'll be talking more about the lecture series to come. now on to the program. it was january 15, 2008, steve jobs was on stage? san francisco making one of the presentations. the kindle e-reader comes up. an jobs said this will go nowhere. being uncharacteristically blunt. [laughter] he said it would go nowhere because meshes have stopped reading. that doesn't matter how good or bad the product is. people don't read anymore. 40% of the peopled in the united states read one book or less last year. the whole concept is totally flawed. if it's true are people reading one book this year we know which

book it is. [laughter] [applause] despite the late arrival on october 28th shortly after the tragic death it went immediately to number one on amazon. nearly a month before the release and ever since it has dominated every best seller list in many parts of the world. walter isaacson who has been at this for awhile, he is not only the distinguished journalist former chairman of crb cnn and president of the ceo of aspen substitute. next year will mark the 20th anniversary of the major buyingty of henry kissinger he added many other biographies. walter and i talked a few days ago about opening the evening with something special and feoffing items from the landmark collection which you can see here on stage.

walter is going to introduce them. don't they look good? they have speakers on underneath here. and we have about 3,000 items in the collection from apple. it's one of the largest connections it was kind in the world dealing with apple. after steve died when we were looking through the collection to find out what was the boast of the best. we discovered something amazing. it was a video tape that regis had made in 1980, from the 25-year-old steve jobs making a 22 mbt presentation at stanford on the roots of apple and his vision for the company. we have digitized that and we put it on the website at computer history.org. it's never been seen before. we're going play about two in thes of it tonight. i hope you will be as as mazed as we were when you see it. [inaudible]

[inaudible] because we couldn't afford to buy a computer on the market. so we liberated parts from hewlett-packard and attar i are, and worked on a design for about six months and decide we would build our own computer. so we built one. and -- [inaudible] everybody wanted one. it turned out it took 40 hours to build one for about $50. we have a lot of friends that work at similar companies that could liberate the parts also. [laughter] helping our friends build computers it began to be a tremendous strain on our lives. we got the idea we could make a printed circuit board without the parts. and cut the assembly down to, you know, five or ten hours.

so -- [inaudible] and i sold my van. we got $13 ,000 and we paid a friend. $1300 to do a layout. [inaudible] i walked in to a bike show in mountain view, and paul -- then owner of the bike shop said he would like to take fifty of the computers. i saw dollar signs in front of my eyes. but he had one catch. which was he wanted a fully assembled and tested and ready to go. we spent five days and convinced them to give us about $10,000 parts. we got the parts and build 100 computers and we sold fifty for cash and 29 days paid off the descrinter. that's how we got started.

ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming walter isaacson. [applause] [applause] grow great it is to be here at computer museum. it's a wonderful place. >> can i give a shoutout to steve wozniak and his wife joice? [applause] and they are so -- [inaudible] all of the history is here. totally intimidating me. i'll keep looking over me and they're nodding or shaking their head. no, it wasn't that way exactly. if i look over there, that's for my queues. >> this is a silicon valley crowd. they won't be that polite. [laughter] we're happy to have you here. >> thank you for having me.

i appreciate it. >> let me ask you about the very first meeting with steve jobs. 1984, you describe yourself as junior editor of thymeses. he comes to new york to demonstrate the macintosh. how did it go? why you see both sides of steve, the absolutely passionate side. he is there with the original mac. almost looks like it's smiling at you. it shows you thin it is so it looks like a friendly face not a crazy face. he shows us all the icons. he's passiote about every pix sill and furious at "time magazine" we're not nearly as good as news week had written a horrible story about him. i saw a pent lent side. and that's what i first started to realize that the sort of impatient impettism that you saw was connected to the passion and

the perfectionism. >> you were meeting incredible people. you have met incredible people during your career. was there something special about the encounter. did he make an impression with you? >> i was mesmerized by him. he was a compelling person. he's telling you the stories, he was up -- he was mad because he had not made man of the year by the end of 1982. i had been an aidon on the wrong side of that. i voted for paul volcker was. none of you remember him. we had done a machine machine of the year. and so -- you but you could tell the first time you met steve jobs there was something compelling about him. >> flash forward twenty years to 2004 and he gets in touch with you. >> gives me a call and i just go in the room and we talked. do you want to come speak? i want to take a walk with you.

after awhile he said why don't you do a biography of me. i had done ben franklin. was finishing albert einstein. i thought, okay, steve. >> i'm sure it was on his mind. >> i admit, i said you're a really, really great subject. but let's wait 30 years until you retire. it wasn't until 2009 when he had the liver strains plant went on the medical leave it spunk in that he was fiecting in cancer. he had transformed with the team a wide variety of str industries. first home computing and by that point by 2009, had transformed the music industry, with itunes and the ipod. the way we listen to music, the phone industry, the publishing industry, tablet computing, i said all right. this is too good to pass up.

>> did you have a theory about him going in to this? >> i had a theory because his very first phone call when we started talking about it, he told me something that edwin land said to him which is that you always want to stand at the intersection of liberal arts and the sciences. right there between the humidities and the humanity and technology or engineering and that something we kind of lost in the cp snow era you were in the humanities or in the sciences. and my theory among others that was connecting creativity to the wonderful feet of engineering was what made him so magical. >> you wrote something in the book, a quote, his passion for perfection lead him to indulge his instinct to control. so i want to talk to you about

the editorial control question. you must have had to grave that and seattle it fairy on. how did you manage that? >> i was stunned. it never really came up. and then after awhile, he gets going it's your book. i'm not even going to read it. he did say, people adopt read books. you know. but it's yours. and by the way i wanted to be honest. i want you to interview, you know, people who didn't like me as well as people who did. he said that he was brutally honest his whole life. he didn't not want it to feel like an in-house book. he wanted it to feel like an independent book. he was going to exercise knowed territorial control. did that ever change? >> one time he called me which fits in to the theory that people don't read book. simon and shy'ser put in a

catalog. it was a cover of steve and an apple with isteve as the title. i landed? san francisco airport coming to a product launch he was going to do. i can't remember which one. ipad and something you least like to see on the iphone which is six or seven missed calls from steve jobs. you know that strisk airport, i'm standing there in the concord. i had returned and he just started yelling at me. you have toast no taste. and, you know, the tight is gimmicky and ugly. i don't want you to come the demonstration. [laughter] i'm holding the phone. and finally he said i'm not going continue to cooperate unless you allow me to have input in to the cover art. now, it took me somewhere defeat a second and second and a half to say, sure. you know, here's a greatest design i, you know, something like that.

and he spent lot of time, you know, just trying to make it a very simple, clean cover and so that was the one time i felt his wrath and the one time when he had editorial input. >> you talk a lot about you quote his friends who coined the term reality dis-- it you find yourselves getting sucked in to that from time to time. >> i think you would be the last to know reality distortion field talk to me about it in revolution in the valley. it was, you know, the engineers there come from a "star trek" series which is simply by thinking something and being convinced of something, even if it is impossible, you know, you can convince other people. and then the secret of the reality distortion feel is that it's sometimes works. that you can convince people they can do the impossible.

woz talked about in his own book steve saying you have to to it now days. i think it was, you know, one of the atari games they were doing. it can't be done and steve said you can do it. that was the reality of the distortion field and four days had been done. so the question of whether eye i got sucked in to. i found myself deeply emotionally vested with him. fried very hard to be honest in the bock. to put all things and all signs in the book. but there will be people in the audience know more than most if you read the book and say, boy, the caught got. i guess the an would be yes. >> one final question about the process of writing the box then

we'll move on. >> you had the luxury of a kind of long historical detachment from einstein but here you are writing a biography of a very compelling, living person up close and personal with him in 40 interviews. how does a biographer maintain that necessary detachment that you enjoy by not being able to spend time with franklin or einstein. >> a couple of things when he did the stanford speech. let me tell you three stories. you become a story teller. you don't try to preach. and i just tried to let the storyings tell themselves. one of the things i discovered by having so much time with him and so much time with 150 other people who work with him was how much more we know or i could know about him than i did about

ben franklin or einstein. we think ben franklin wrote a lot of letters 40 volumes of paper. einstein they're compiling the papers. we should know. like the flying the kite in the rain. we have journal entry with a newspaper clip. but request steve everything that happened i'd hear at about great length and hear other people's versions of it and i probably ended up knowing 100 maybe 1,000 times more about him and each story in the book than you would doing somebody you who are doing it through letters or journals. >> okay. let talk about the story telling, you know, and the place i'd like to begin is his partnership with wozniak. >> it starts with that very early on. the blue box. it. >> right. >> it starts at atari by doing fames. steve is on the night shift.

they find it easier to work with him if he's on the night shift. and he learns a lot there including the noaghts of how do make them do amazing things and simplicity. you have to remember that games like pong and breakout and "star trek" they had to be so simple that a stone freshman could figure them out. insert quarter, avoid cling on. that's simplicity got embedded embedded in him. then at one point wow have one of the few copies at the computer history museum of the blue box which was started, i think, when esquire magazine wrote about captain crunch and the phone freakers who would replicate the bell system tones they said we got to do this. went to slack the stanford

accelerator library in, found the bell system manuals, and made an analog version of that that didn't quite work. woz goes off to berkeley but is able to make the first digital version of it. and you see the partnership. and unfortunately i can't see woz whether she's making his head or not. he coming up with an amazing circuit board but of course loves to show it off. steves says we can package it and we can sell it and make money. they started going door to door at rooms at berkeley selling the one. at one point calling the vatican and woz pretendedded to be henry disjeer saying he was at the summit meeting and. i can see woz nodding at this one. they never got the pope on the phone but the entire college of

cardinals figured it out. they described the whole story and the blue box story if it hadn't been for the blue box. it wouldn't have been apple. why did he feel that way. what was the thing they could do together? >> they were complement tear. meaning they complimented each other well. they could have meetings in the head and design great circuit boards. woz had been taught by the father. being a engineer is a highest calling. he never thought about maybe we should put it in package. maybe we should get a good power supply and integrate. maybe we can sell it at twice or three times the cost of our materials. and so what steve did was as he ask the whole life take great ideas and come up with a great vision and pull it all together to do something amazing and i

think that was a perfect partnership for somebody who was, you know, could design circuit board with one quarter of the number of chips that any engineer take to make it work. >> we were talking earlier about the process of invention is not a singular endeavor. trs not one person sitting in a room finding out that ah-ha moment. >> we were talking about the james milely book. >> it's about the slab ration. when you think of einstein was a there a relationship you find woz -- not always. >> with einstein it was a true so low act. especially the greatest of most elegant of theories in the 20th century. he's pacing alone in the apartment in berlin for months on end and unlike most other physics at the time max, kneel,

he didn't form a school and wasn't collaborative. steve even though he was sometiming tough on people, truly created team like the original macintosh team that andy was a part that were bond together as if they were pirates and steve was able with his both inspiring and demanding way to create collaborative teams. and he's done that. he did that his whole life i mean even know for the past eight or nine years at app. you had an intensely loyal, great collaborative team. >> apple gets up and running. they start with that was what you heard -- 1.1 some odd

million. >> $1.6 million. with ron steve jobs and wozniak signed when they put together apple. the way steve tells me the story he worked on the all-one farm run by people college they dropped out of there and gone to the apple farm. he was there tending to the apples and had come back from the apple farm and says, okay, we're going to create a company. and gets excited that not only going to make a product. we'll have our own company. it and they couldn't figure out what to name it. they are matrix and personal computers. but steve says what about apple? apple computer.

counter intuitive. names your head snap a bed. friendly. a whiff of the counter culture but american as pie and they say if we can't think of a better name we're register as apple computer. and, by the way, it's in front of attar i are in the phone book. [laughter] important marketing. so they begin to work on the apple i they are putting together the team early in the early history of the postcorporation period. there's another ingredient that has to come along to make it work. mark come tons the scene. >> you need money. their going from apple one to am two. jerry and others create , i mean, it wasn't manic create a beautiful case a plastic

molding. it's going to cost a lot of money to do it. you can't sell your vw bus and hp calculator they did to get the apple one. so they need investment capital and mike comes along signs a line of credit, but also gives them a great piece -- gives steve a great piece of advice. a marketing document with three concept on it. one is to focus. really, you know, keep your focus. the other is em pa think. not the perfect word for it. but is basically make an emotional connection with the people are going to buy the product. and and the third is not a great word. the word impute. but it means cast an aura around whatever you do so that the minute you, you know, steve even throughout the career had his own personal name on the pat

tents for the boxes. the packages of the apple product. you open up and there was ipod cradles. you imputed it was something really cool just the way it was and that's what apple two does. it imputes it's a cool machine. >> even as impermtive as it looks. he job saysed with the curve of the corners on the edges. >> the tampers and the design elements. he had been fascinated by the sonny style in a very -- right when they move out of the garage they are in an office and next door is a sonny showroom and he would fondle the prosee chiewrs. he went toes a pin design conference and really having grown -- but those holmes were sort of mass marketed, simple frank lloyd wright style homes for the ever man.

it was simplicity. .. adulatory that gets used a lot, temperamental and bratty starts to grate on people. >> well, he was temperamental. that's why he was getting something new. temperamental people always have

in control of a product to make it perfect. that temperamental mess, you know, there was an original president, mike scott. scotty's sword to temper a shot that didn't work too well. eventually deibert and sean scully, who is a very polite gentleman to try to handle steve. it was stevie got the whole package. the temperamental mess is a part of it and it showed in how he cared. i tell the story in the book was steve watkin made by his house that he grew up in when he was very john and his dad -- he built a sensitive data and should and ship me to send them he touched it. he said my dad taught me to make the back of the fence is because the front. he said nobody over cedar know. my dad said, but you will now. and that is why even on the apple ii he wants the circuit

court to be beautiful. and when they get to the macintosh, the next one over, even though you cannot open a commie he holds it up for a while because the chips on the circuit board are not neatly aligned. when they say nobody can open it, nobody will know. he says to the mac designers, you will know. and the other thing that is interesting in talking about steve's wozniak, steve jobs and steve had the passion of an artist to have and to rent control. hardware, integrated the software, don't open it up. wozniak was much more open and, but on the apple ii i think it has eight slots. you could check into it, put stuff into it. you could open it up and get to the circuit board and steve jobs was against having slots. he wanted as an artist would tiered he would want bob dylan's

famous have an open source on my lyrics. everybody can put the words they want. he didn't like people. he wanted the apple ii to have the spot, the jacks, but the macintosh doesn't and it does mean that screws you can use to open it up. and i was very steve jobs like all the way through his career, really believing and tightly controlling at the gardens of kyoto to do that to those that come, carefully curated from a carefully walled, carefully tended by one artist and stability. >> let's move now to the macintosh era. so much is going on, so much growth in this personal courtship of john sculley begins. talk a little bit about that on-again off-again relationship. >> it was a bad mistake. it was almost like he saw john sculley at that as a father

figure or a mentor. scully really wanted to be cool and hip and one of steve's approval. and it was for a while, you know, within a finite in case that the cn ramo apartment is steve is fine and he brings john sculley at and the cadaver essential part in sculley is to nearing. steve says, do you want to spend the rest of your life because sculley was that pepsi selling sugar water or do much change the world? so sculley calms and sculley of the man a prep school sensibilities, great manners, very kind, but esr -- it is hard for him to deal with conflict. steve felt the price. my research has? he said the price of admission to being with me as i had to be able to tell you you're full of it. he used a word to my letters.

you have to go to tell me i'm full of it and we're going to really do get out. in sculley was not that way. secondly, sculley was basically a marketer. you know, having run pepsi u.s., he didn't sit there worrying about the product. he was not fiddling with the formula for doritos and saying i can make this insanely great. it was show space marketing. and i think steve after a while felt that sculley just didn't get into how awesome the macos. and then it didn't help that the mac, even though it was insanely great, sculley priced at almost 2500 bucks. it did not sell very well. microsoft started licensing out is copied version of the graphical user interface so dominating the computer business. so i think the relationship was doing fine as long as apple is doing fine in the apple ii was a

workhorse, making the money, but the mac didn't say there is a horrible far enough that culminates on memorial day of 1985. >> before we talk more about the falling out and post 85. come a website about the invention of the macintosh itself. this is a point in the book where you insert the great famous quote from jobs. good artists copy, great artists steal, which he took from picasso. and he would have me up always been shameless about stealing great ideas. that quote is often associated with the genesis of the macintosh because of xerox parc. so they take to visit to xerox parc. it had come up with a concept of the desktop metaphor. more importantly sort of a map design commending each pixel on that screen that fits in the

microprocessor. and so you could make a beautiful machine. uni roadmaster membranous not you can go on this museum here. you have to do the scream fossil letters coming in now, see prompt with the backslash, whatever command. it was god-awful. and suddenly a "time" magazine we get the mac and you can click in the document. you can drag and drop. so they do hold that section on visits to xerox parc. the misconception is just a part of the graphical interface because it takes two years of the most amazing designers, including andy and others on the team to take the metaphor of xerox used him to really make it great. you have to remember xerox cannot they start two years before the mac came out. it sold like seven copies in all of america.

i mean, it was a clergy, that machine. with a definition of metaphor mistake and also three buttons and totally simplified and you'll be able to click and drag and drop and double click and open things up. we want to down menus and bill atkinson invents clipping where you can have document sort of looking like they are on top of other documents that looks wicked messy desktop. so none of that was in the xerox original graphical interface. so i think first of august 2 xerox metaphor and make it insanely great. secondly, tso, you know, there falls the shadow between the conception and the reality. well, they're able to to execute on it with xerox and others warn. but it is true that part of steve's genius was looking at a thousand ideas at any given point in saying that was great, the sun and we're going to

ignore. the pulling together ideas, including ideas from xerox parc. >> this is one of the times where he is pushing this team incredibly hard. >> reality has been coined -- at 1.1 of the engineers is in charge of the bootup of the machine. and steve says it's taking too long jalandhar buddha. you have to say 10 seconds off the bootup time. the guy says you can't. it's actually really elegant piece of code, if you can save a human life, which you shave 10 seconds off? and kenyon goes well, yeah. so steve goes to the whiteboard or whatever and says all right. say there's a million macintoshes and save 10 seconds every time somebody besides and in a given year at this number of times and multiplies it out and you can save this number of lives every year if you shave off 10 seconds. an example of the reality

distortion field working within four weeks he shaped up eight seconds. everything about that. you know, you see the screen. it is a rounded rectangle. i'll get corrected if i get some of the names are on, but i think it is atkins who is doing what is called the primitives which you can usually put on the screen. sony does this square, which is easy in a rectangle and then he does a circle which is hard because the microprocessor doesn't do square roots, but he figures out a way to do a circle. ceases the akamai which need not only were they going to circle, but a rectangle with rounded edges. the guy says well, no, that can't be done. why do we need it? steve makes a mock run the parking lot in the neighborhood pointing to things like windshields and billboards and no parking signs and screens of computers same rounded rec tangles are what people see

every day. if they are more beautiful to look at. atkinson or however that came up as a primitive to do a rounded rec. and even those in pinstripes on the pulldown menus fretted over them. even the susan kare doing the font. i mean, you know, steve is there because he lives taking the calligraphy course i dropped out of reid caring about the spacing on each one of those fonts. >> the perfection that he was seeking at that point and the most impossible task he was asking people to perform engendered in the book as he reported to two completely different camps it seems to me is people who worked for jobs at that point. there was a people who said he would push you, you'd be better for it.

>> he was one of the great engineers. >> others would say worst experience of my life. >> in other cases the number of people you encounter, well made tremendous affection and the number of people in another way, would you say -- >> there's actually three categories because a lot of people so opposed. it was a really agonizing experience in the best experience. especially with the macintosh team oriented with the team today, the overwhelming numbers say he pushed me to do things i never thought i could do. he me nuts at times. it was the greatest experience of my life. >> so it premieres. it's a great commercial. talk a little bit about his view of the creation. >> welcome in 1884 is interesting because in steve jobs' soul, you do have a heart or soul of a member of the

counterculture, a rebel, a misfit. so it appears to the rebels, the naysayers, those who think different. the 1984 ad is i think an incredible and cultural landmark and icon. obviously because of the orwell novel we have been thinking up until then as computers have been centralizing and controlling in the province of the pentagon and the power structure and the corporations. the notion that a computer could be personal and empowering to the individual had grown up a bit in opposition to that. sort of the stewart brand, whole earth catalog view of computers for the people. and steve was in that mentality. he'd also like to think of himself as part of the hacker he does. the problem with him thinking is he said he doesn't want slots.

he does wind up in our studio hack in. so in some ways he has violated the hacker eat those by creating an appliance that you can open up as a poster hey, percheron software inherent in flood things then. but he wants to assert that i'm still part of the hacker eat those fighting the establishment and that is that amazing and come up with this guy which it started late runner films they in london and it is the one man being chased by the thought police are now the big brothers on the screen drowning. she finally says that hammer decimates big brother and then says y know, apple will introduce macintosh, find out why 1984 won't be like 1984. so they show it at a board meeting and although board members are like this at the

end. i think who is still schlein of macy's california says he makes a motion that we find a new adhesions d. scully is so frightened he decides he's going to order them to sell back the advertising time on the super bowl and not run the ad. steve is furious. at one point shows the ad two was and he says wedowee chip in and pay for the ad. they don't really need to because lee cal and the wonderful people who changes his name every few years, a beach bum of a brilliant genius who'd been a guru of advertising at apple ever since cerda says we can't solve it came back. and somehow don't suppertime back. so the ad runs really only one or wants nationally.

but it becomes pregnant as rents including tv guide the best advertisement of all times. >> it doesn't sell well. we can't get the rights to show it unfortunately. >> we complete on youtube. but i should bring that up. >> wonderful commercial, doesn't sell well. steve is the macintosh division. his relationship with scully. there is a massive loeb at the end. in fact, you go in the book day by day. that fateful week in may. >> is talking to everybody there. steve twice tries to bring people up to his house. they all sort of plot that they know that steve probably should not take over the company. as one of the great experiences,

but he had been adopted and he has on the board arthur rockwood been a figure, mike markov and a father figure, john sculley and they all go round the room and vote against him and abandon him. and he really takes it hard. >> how did you recover from that? when you talk to me about that period, pretty dark time. what did he say it? >> well, we describe all of that week including whether the food came from when serving it on the patio when they try to bring marker around. so it is still seared into his mind. >> this is almost 25 years later. >> memorial day weekend in 1985. he goes to europe for a while, bicycles around. he then talks to some people and

comes up with the concept of doing next computer. and by the end of 85 has recruited a handful of people from apple, causing a lawsuit. i mean, this is really bad at this point because the board and school at all think you're stealing our people and he creates next. he says in the stanford speech and to me it was the best thing that happened to me, liberated me. i actually think it was the experience at next but in some ways liberate and returned him more. >> web is that? >> there was another board and. his instinct was against paul rand, the grendel designer of logos. $100,000 to the next logo before they even have anything. he gets a beautiful headquarters

with a patented staircase. you can see them there in apple stores. he wanted his own factory. he wanted the next to be a perfect cube. those of you involved in computer mass know there is a draft angle that means it is 91 degrees or so. it is exactly 90 degrees, exactly 90 degrees and that they and that they have to do a special manufacturer. it had to be not lack. everything about it was 10 until jane this insane drive for perfection including building is that reads, having it in pure white and having it be robotic. so it is a glorious machine that's an absolute market failure. and that the very first macintosh off-site, he does a series of maxims on the way board. i'm the first one is, don't

compromise. that's a great inspiring maxon. it is also not really a great way to run a business. as ben franklin said, compromises may not make great heroes, but they do make great democracy. at a certain point you have to learn how to make trade-offs. and don't compromise mentality. he had it for a while until he finally realize you don't have to compromise your principles, but you have to have some sense of balance. and that is what he learned at next. and simultaneously was doing pixar. >> pixar is a wonderful example of what was said at the very beginning, the intersection of art and technology. a friend brought them out to jersey luke is to meet some of george lucas' people. lucas was getting rid of their software and hardware decision he had. steve thought that was really cool. he thought he could make

consumers. this digital rendering. i never really took off. but there was one guy working there in charge of making sure it to show off how cool the machines were named john lasseter. he made a couple of shorts with a laxer lamp and one called tin toy and the rest, as they say, is biography if not history. eventually leads to toy story. so pixar becomes the main thing in the business. >> he says something profound in the book about that period, which is the strain that running pixar and next simultaneously put on him physically. and even says i think that's something to do with my eventually getting cancer. >> i don't think that the case. i don't think you get cancer from working hard for stress. but he felt that way and he felt there was great stress. he was driving up to pixar. he was handling.

and then of course when it goes back to apple he is juggling quite a few things. i was a great time of stress in his life and also unhappiness. next was not doing well. pixar, you have to remember, was a hardware or software company nobody's buying the pixar except for disney bought a few pixar imaging machines. but it's not selling that well. and so for a while he is hemorrhaging money of both companies. >> can also come one of the most widely creative periods, too. pixar was producing these phenomenal. >> well, by the time they produced were story, they're no longer hemorrhaging money. >> did a lot for apple doing this. did he ever fully give up on the notion? >> no, apple was his baby. apple licensed child.

i don't know that he just longed for, but he was deeply frustrated that he was being screwed up. they're inventing new products in the products actinic kept coming out with more lines of macintoshes, but not a better machine. they couldn't even create an operating system. you know, a new mac os. i think he is watching as people screwed up the wonderful baby it helped create. >> and finally the two was triumphant -- >> it creates an operating system at a certain point, jill amelio who has been running apple says i have to buy an operating system. he looks that even microsoft. the question of adapting windows. that would have been weird. [laughter] and then there's this amazing operating system that tevanian

and steve jobs at dynax, which was exactly what apple made it. so eventually apple decides they have to get mixed up by the operating system. if you get the operating system, you also buy next to get steve jobs. and i'm not sure, but i think it was jill amelio meets steve jobs came over. steve jobs is back in the saddle. >> in fact to tell the whole story. emilio tried to resist that. but he just found himself being drawn in. and then begins may be, arguably one of the greatest decades that any corporation -- >> totally stunning. first of all he creates at the new operating system he brings bill gates, his doppelgänger, in spite of the binary star system with fine now some of his relationship. case comes back and makes an

investment, starts making microsoft word and excel and others for the new mac os. but he also truly focuses on design. you all remember in you probably have it here but not on stage, the first imac. he first goes back to apple in 1997 i may form this finding and they create the imac. you know, johnny ives sketches is out. it looks almost like a rabbit on your desk. steve says that is all good, but they keep playing with the model until they have a beautiful. they make a translucent beyond the blue. he goes to jellybean fractures as they have to make it look right? it lets you see the circuit board inside to see how nat the circuit board is. and john even comes with a notion even most of it astonishing that they recessed panel. the engineers say it will cost too much money. you don't get a handle. you're not supposed to pick it up. and what steve and john intuitively understood was that

computers were still intimidating to people, but they handle gives you permission to touch it. if sms or service. so just by having the recessed handle, even if you didn't you say, you thought that the computer was being deferential to you. so that beautiful design when they finally have flat screens, they take the imac and johnny design something. steve says no, no, no integrity of screwed it up. he goes home, johnny comes back to steve's house on the backyard , maureen has pointed out the sunflowers. they walk around to figure out what they do and finally you get that beautiful imac that is a dome with a sunflower neck so it has integrity to it. and everything they do, whether they're playing with plastic or titanium or metal is distinguishing apple from those commodity machines that dell and hp and compaq were turning out.

>> so once you you raise the ship with that strategy when he goes back coming he make that kind of incredibly bold decision which is 2001. it's not going to be a computer can't be any more. >> now, the acetate the top 100 or or go under streets and say here's what we do next. everyone afraid to get on that list. finally they would get the list to time and see what cross of the bottom six or seven say we can only do for her. and it was stay focused. when he went back to apple, that was it. folks on four things. desktop, laptop, home, professional. when acronymic 20 lines of macs ever going to make four. but then when he nails it and right at the top of the list is maybe consumer devices, products. and what he does is realizes by having and two in control, the hardware and software, you can create a digital hub for your pitcher video camera by

firewire, connected to your computer and manipulate your video, create dvds. the one thing he screwed up slightly was he didn't -- he wanted a trace spot in the new imac and a mysterious -- i'm sorry, he wanted one of those pure thoughts. and when they put a tray and he was furious and made them eventually change it to just a slot. it meant you couldn't earn music cds and panasonic and others came out with the burning of cds. and you are so focused, the notion of focus, focus, focus. this focus on video. because of adobe and says you've got to make your committee know, video editing software for the new mac os. unlike those days who said yes and came down to make microsoft, the people at adobe said now coming into smaller market share. as he now come you never quite forgave adobe, which is why

flash doesn't work on your ipad. but the market of true genius of the companies that we need to give that, just when you think of things first, but when you actually feel to think of something first can you leapfrog can you catch up. and so, he realizes he can ace out at the music business, that others are making cd burner trays and all of us were making, downloading music from napster and making playlists and burning cds and you couldn't do it that well in the apple. so he had to leapfrog. he says are going to do up and making a perfect end to end things that they do talk software, which is itunes. the story miss you get your music, the device itself. when they start making the ipod, he makes it so simple because it's end to end integrated with the whole thing. you take the complexity and put

it on the mac for the itunes software so that the device itself is not one of these complicated mp3 players were you have to figure out how to do it. you can just look at it with the track wheel and it was intuitive. they kept saying, i want to be a litigant wherever i want whatever song i want whatever function i wanted three clicks and i want to be intuitive. he showed them and drove them and drove them until the ipod becomes perfect. and that is when he leapfrogs and as the music. but he takes apple for being apple coter. and to be in the digital hub business. first, dvds and video. can really pick with the ipod and music. and the ipod is hugely successful, so he starts to worry purpose going to kill a? he realizes people putting music on their phones will kill it, so focuses and does the iphone. and i first added two versions

of the iphone, when the sort of an ipod modify with a sharp will, which wasn't very good for a phone and then let donny at many other people goaded on by microsoft and engineered there that steve didn't like this notion of a touchscreen technology. when he finally sees how the touchscreen can work, he says that does it. that's how we're going to do the iphone. and so you have a series of consumer advice is, devices from a decade and 2001, most prominently the ipod, the iphone in the ipad to totally transform industries. >> at the same time you spend in other industries in the direction of the music industry. >> he can buy the factors make in this insanely great products being sold in big box stores by folks have no idea what they're doing come as comest the concept

of the notion of the store, but not just disturb the whole branding exercise. and you know, just that notion of vending industries for the ipod and itunes store to work you had to convince seven record companies to put all their music on and so the offense so the songs for 99 initially. now the music company has their own press play and they were doing their consortium. obviously sony was trying, you know, they've done the walkman had a great music division. none want to come aboard and steve personally dislike her and in the itunes software to the time warner building, showing it music, getting him aboard and then getting to war as a universal, finally encircling sony. no other ceo would have been a passionate about just, you know,

going at people until they finally surrendered and sony is the last holdout. there's a great story. andy lack was running sony music. he asked that sunniness again, but the one thing that steve wants because all of dylan. because in the early days is found by a tape that totally dylan fanatics. it is a soundtrack of steve's life. dylan is a sony artists. so he wants to do while 772 tracks of dylan as a virtual digital set that you can buy for $199. andy says no, i'm going to jabber to them because any beverage. we're not going to allow dylan. steve calls bob dylan. bob dylan with all respect slightly spacey, doesn't quite do what they, the sort of his manager. they're all trying to figure

out. steve jobs talked them into it. and he finally says to bob dylan, i will write you a check for $1 million if you'll stay out at the itunes store but that box set for here. and dylan come i hate to say it because i love dylan, takes the money. innovator andy lack has moved out of sony and the box that not only goes on to the itunes store, dylan doesn't ipod ad you may remember with silhouettes in dylan wearing a cowboy hat. and you know what? it held still and even more than it helps the ipod for the first time since 20 years he debuted with an album at the top of the billboard charts because itunes and the ipod has such a cachet about him doing that ad for a new generation. >> you look skeptical about some of those questions. >> i'm not skeptical. there's a lot of questions. my expression is that they were to westar.

another question before we get into the cars, which is about the final chapter. you write, if reality does not comport with his will, he would worry as he had done with the birth of his daughter and would years later in the first diagnosis for cancer. when i talk to people about the question they most want me ask you tonight, easily in the top three was why, when he was first diagnosed, did he undertake all these other natural nonmedical solutions? >> there's two sides at least a steve jobs at all times whether it's his personal life, professional life, the counterculture, sort of alternative romantic since ability as steve. and there is the hard-core engineering scientific side of steve's. >> in the cancer was no different. both sides kicked in and he spends a lot of time wrestling with those two alternatives. wrestling with alternative treatments and diets, but also

as they say in the book, as much as the next dna sequence, having targeted hairpiece done, you know, unfortunately it takes some months before he does what he does in every other aspect of his life is find the perfect synthesis is something that is those very scientific, but also comports with this alternative view of things. and so he does. it takes longer. i don't know. it was implied at a garden operated on right away or some thing he might have stopped the cancer. we don't know that. cancer spreads in serious ways, so it is quite likely the cancer had already spread. but it was somewhat typical of steve to save the normal rules don't apply to me. i'm going to look at this from both alternative viewpoint as well as a deeply rooted scientific viewpoint. everything in some ways that he

does in his life and set the innocent to say since hippy rabble list, the guy he was in the hewlett-packard geek explorers club. >> is interesting. >> i'm going to start with a couple questions now. what was the greatest misperception about steve jobs in your mind that was addressed or maybe that you could address in this book? >> i think the greatest misperception came on the book first came out and people were quickly reading and playing out in does is that the petulance and the impatience that were bred as character from the very beginning was just sort of a weird thing. i mean, his own personality was integrated, including his profession and the products, just like apple products are integrated so that perfectionism and artist temperament or bratty

temperament. you can't argue or bratty is not some disconnected little thing that has nothing to do with the passion for perfection or the product, you know, i drive that he had. as though, i try and that is what the last chapter is about, and show how all of this was woven together. >> so worth it petulant and bratty are also may be a little euphemistic for some much stronger words you use in the book from time to time. >> i remember i was at time inc. and up one point fortune was doing a story involving his cancer because they were the ones who reported the cancer first. and steve is furious and called it the editor and editor in chief. i was there and heard the stories. and finally he says to the

editor of fortune, wait a minute, what you have here? you discovered on the mass hole? why is bad news? he was very self aware that he could be a strong cup of tea. [laughter] >> this is an interesting question. did he have to be who he was and now by a? >> that is the question i am most asked. did you have to be that way to get done what he did? and i'm going to back off a little from giving you a great answer because i am a storyteller. i had to read about the person who was in front of me. that's who he was, so i wrote the story of pain. this is not a how-to book. this is not a manual. there is very nice people who run very successful companies and they are also total acyl's were failures at running companies. that said, i am not trying to say, here is the way to do it

like steve did. i have tried to read a book but a flesh and blood human being who i didn't know all of this aspects, but when i knew them, i tried to tell that story. and part of that story is being driven over his euphemistic. and had he not been that way, i doubt he would have been as successful. on the other hand, i suspect there were other ways to get things done at times. but you know, when he stated he have to be that way, my only job is to tell you the way he was because i'm just a biographer, not a preacher or management consultant. >> to think that question will be answered was sort of the luxury distance and time? >> yeah, i mean i guess clayton christiansen is another great management. gurus could probably do a case

study you can take all the jack welch is a blah, blah, blah and fat 60 minutes hussein, did he have to be so hard? to have to be so tough? i said wait a minute, you work for don hewitt. don hewitt was a genius. he was also a real pain. we all know people like that. i guess you could do a study of nice bosses, test boxes, sharks and correlate with a regression analysis and see how is more successful, but that's way above my pay grade. [laughter] >> are you writing a screenplay in which you choose george clooney? [laughter] >> i am not. i have nothing. the report said the movie are premature and whatever done and i'm not even talking about it. >> can you see george clooney and his role at all? >> i had trouble when i was dealing the steve, steve went over every frame of pixar movies the way he went over every curve

of the first macintosh. and he would say something about "finding nemo" or whatever. i remember having to go back and quickly download this movie is because i just don't know. it is one of my blind spots. when i was editor of time i was famous for making really bad movie cover calls. so asking me who should play what ended the dashed >> will give you a pass on that. >> on behalf of archivists and historians have hair, what were steve stipulations about using the interviews he collected for this book and where will they ultimately be deposited? >> most of them were notes. some transcripts of the 45 formal interviews he gave me. my notes will go somewhere. if you wish to talk, but not for another 20 or 30 years. [laughter] i mean, partly because steve and

the people around steve, you know, would say things that could be very hurt old or they could say something just ask and it, especially steve about certain things. and there's things i didn't put in the book and things that have to take out of my nose just because they were unnecessary to understanding steve and probably, you know, in the interest of kindness you don't want to hurt people of certain comments. so i will someday go through my notes. and if it's the 20 year rule, maybe some of the things that have gone by the wayside. >> someone picked up on that quote about great artists and said he said that, yet he presented bill gates in google and many others for many years for stealing from apple as he saw it. how did his zen south reconciled

this? >> c. was not an expert at reconciling conflicting things. [laughter] amerson and others have great quotes about conflicting thoughts at the same time. steve was totally ballistic, first at bill gates and microsoft for ripping off, as he put it, the macintosh interface. and then of course famously berating and saying it to me in the book with words of one syllable how he felt and heard and google had ripped off the apple mobile operating system. you know, no, he didn't try and reconcile that. but i will say he didn't rip off xerox. i mean, that is a financial

deal. there was an exchange of technology she. i think, you know, he has some right to feel that he came out before apple came up with both a beautiful macintosh operating system and then they're pretty matches copied by windows and likewise the mobile operation. you can argue as to 10 years in court about whether you can copyright the look and feel, what it is an intellectual property steps they are. but i can understand why she was off. >> given his mercurial, there's a great story in the book. >> material, i love the word. >> how is he still able to engender such creativity and loyalty? >> first upheld the material story. the self-awareness that steve was because he was material. so he's showing off the next computer symphony hall when it's

been unveiled. among other things he had helped digital books. they didn't exist. but he put a thesaurus and all of shakespeare's work in digital form. so he's showing off a thesaurus and say sometimes i'm called material. let me look it up or whatever. and it says antonym, saturnine. and then it describes saturnine as someone who doesn't have enough emotions. he says leggett nasa badge and a mercurial, if it? so i think he understood his mercurial nature and that that was a part of who he was. having said that i've now forgotten the second half of the question. >> given he was that way, how did he engender such creativity? >> lock. when you are creating a machine essence and the greatest that coming even if you're in the middle of the night game this

code is socks you've got to make it better, brighter time you've created as an engineer the original macintosh, you are loyal to the genius and the vision they are. and people who have strong personalities either can turn people off or they can say, hey, i got inspired here and got to be on a team. ambler, the proof -- crochet is like this, in the pudding. but look at the team he hasn't apple. if he is that bad of a pass, why did so many a player stay with him? well, they like to work on a team with only eight players. if he went up the ladder he players, that doesn't mean that t-man apple filled with eight players are quite loyal to him. >> can you talk about the relationship between larry ellison and steve jobs. >> leary as a best friend, you know, it was a deep, friendly

relationship. one of my favorite anecdotes if i think late 96 when the question is steve coming back to take over apple is being kicked around. and larry ellison says why do we buy apple? but on my launch a hostile takeover. i'll buy apple. the pushy back and set into motion again make a lot of money. steve finally says they think i might go back to apple, but i do when she to invest. i do want you to buy it for me to invest. i went to go back at 1 dollar each year and no ownership of it. and larry ellison says, but steve, if you do it and you come back that way and makes a great company again, how am i going to make money? you know, if we don't invest in diet. they were walking along a beach in steve kraft speckles shoulders and says larry, that this is why admit support and

i'm your friend. you don't need any more money. [laughter] >> it didn't -- well, i won't go there. a couple more questions. before i get to this, let me ask you quickly about the current technology of this great conversational interface that siri represents. did he talk much about that with you, what the vision is? >> yeah, i do think the simplest of the natural interfaces have always been his passion and there is no simpler one than just talking. i did not know the name siri and as careful in the book even though he told me a lot of things in detail what he wanted to do, i decided, you know, i shouldn't put in things that he might not be what to do an apple may be working on for the next couple of years. but at the last board meeting when he tenders his resignation as ceo they have a lunch

afterwards and all the engineers bring out the various things that they're working on. one of them, wish i knew would come out pretty soon so i put in the book is this voice-recognition thing. naidu had steve panic because they know steve is not feeling very well, produced and brought brought into this meeting today he's going to try dimmick of a guy. so he asks what is now called siri, do i need an umbrella? the prediction is for a sunny day tomorrow in palo alto. so it really is doing beautifully. so finally steve says, are you a man or are you implement? and they all kind of hold their breath because he's trying to trick the machine. and siri is very good and it says they have not yet assigned a gender. and they all breathed a sigh of relief and steve thinks it's great. so he left that technology. either way, bill gates -- everybody's been trying to

cracked voice recognition. >> what do you think of the apple he leaves behind? you talk about the team and the great rupiah spilled. there is rumored to be this product roadmap that goes on and on. but the history of technology companies with a founder like this and someone driving with a vision like this leave been is not great over all. what do you mean about where apple goes from here without steve jobs? >> the last meeting i told you about when he goes to the board and does that lunch, somebody at the lunch makes fun of hp because of that day or week had gotten out of the tablet business, with either giving getting in iraq, was totally confused. steve said wait a minute, you know, he stops a person is making fun fun of the troubles at hewlett-packard. sad when i was 13, bill hewlett gave me my first job and he

created the company that is imbued with their dna that was designed not only to make a calculator and then a computer and other things, but to continue to make new products and come up with new ideas even after they were gone. both of those screwed it up for hewlett-packard. i don't want that to happen at apple. and he tried deeply to find out the bozo explosion so there is only a team of great players, but also to say there is a simple, simple thing that apple stands for, which is the intersection of great creativity and humanity is with great and technology he. and he said that as the disney did. you know, that is what a lot of people have done. there accompanies the last. ibm is almost 101 years old. i think apple has been viewed in

its genetic code as design your to drive great design and artistic creativity with great engineering and technology he. and it will be at that intersection and the people there now are capable of keeping it at that intersection. you know, 10 years from now, 25 years from now, look, disney up and down, up-and-down, but you still know what do they stand for and is doing fine right now after a few rich passes since walt disney died. if i had to be sure and unlike rick perry i am a betting man, not $10,000, but i would wager that a generation from now, even a century from now, apple will still exist at the intersection of the humanities and the technology. >> said that his apple. one final question about steve

jobs. so 100 years ago the great industrialist and philanthropist , carnegie, rockefeller, mellon built institutions as well as corporate legacies and that legacy survives. steve jobs, had he lived longer might've done the same thing, but chose not to do for whatever reason now. his legacy is apple, but it's built on a rather shifting sandbar technology. 100 years or 90 talk about what you think apple will do. what do you think the legacy of steve jobs will be as people look back at him in this era? >> well, i did ask the last five or six pages of the book, what's your legacy and putting something back in the flow of history after you've built on those who work for you. i asked him what was his greatest creation. i'm thinking maybe with the ipad or whatever. he said the outcome of the apple

the company because products coming out that the hard part is making a company that will continue to make it product. so i do think apple will be a legacy, but also more specifically the legacy will be somebody who truly transformed industry after industry by pulling together great ideas and driving the technology to support them. i mean, look at the ipad. people made fun of it. i was there when he launched it. all sorts of articles. what is said and i sewn on stories? nobody makes a tablet work. the ipad is now, whether i walk into a doctor's office or anywhere else, it is transforming industry after industry. $2 billion last year just in the industry of creating apps for it. the textbook industry. you know, carnegie was great with education philanthropy.

bill gates is great with education philanthropy. in the hand, the ipad may change education as much as any of the carnegie schools. so i think he's got a pretty solid legacy if you look at each of those industries he transformed. >> so we often ask our authors to do a short reading at the end and he graciously agreed to read the quota of the biography. i wonder if you would do that for us now. >> yeah, thank you. as i said, i and -- i will start earlier on and do one more signature phrase. and i do say biographers are supposed to have the last word, but this is one of steve jobs and even though he didn't impose a generic control i suspect it would not convey the right feel for him in the way he asserted himself in any situation if i just shoveled on history without letting him have some of the

last words. so i really take a series of interviews i did with him about his legacy and just let him talk without me getting in the way. but then the coda is about one sunny afternoon when in the back garden of his house he wasn't feeling well and he reflected on death. i said he talked about his experiences in india almost four decades earlier. a study of buddhism. his views on reincarnation views on spiritual transcendence. quote, and about 50/50 on believing in god the sad. for most of my life, i thought there must be more to our existence than meets the eye, unquote. he admitted that as they face death, he might be overestimating the odd out of a desire to believe in the afterlife. quote, i would like to think of something survives after you die. it is strange to think as you

accumulate all this experience and maybe a little with some and it just goes away. so i really want to believe that something survives but maybe your consciousness and tours. and then he sat up for a long time. and he said, but on the other hand, perhaps it's just like an on-off switch he said. click, you die, you're gone. and then he paused again, a long pause, and he smiled slightly. quote, and maybe that is why never like to put on-off switches on apple devices. [laughter] at the end. [applause]

>> john kennedy once met with harold met ellen about as prime minister and you were the reportage of the day in newspapers, you know, that discuss arms control, issues between the two powers. but only long afterwards did we get the notes on what they said exactly in private. turned out that kennedy spent a lot of the time complaining about bad press coverage. press has been tough on jackie and other things. and mcmillan he was a generation generation older said jack, why do you care? brush it off. doesn't matter. you have other things to worry about. kennedy said that it's easy for you to say, harold. how would you like it if the precedent of your wife lady dorothy was a drunk? and mcmillep