wrote. and she paid with her life for. >> are there any other questions? okay, well you'd like to thank you for coming today, and also now from the virginia festival of book. stefanie duetch and daniel talk about fighting for civil rights through education and war. it's about an hour. >> good afternoo welcome to the virginia festiva of books sponsored by virginia

foundation for the humidities. panel is caughted fight the for civil right through ocean and w i'm pleased to welcome you here this afternoon. i'll be moderating today which features two authors. stefanie duetch who are here to talk about about the books on the schools and the ai a few program notes to begin, first i'd like to point out tha c-span is filming this finalling this production for booktv. please be sure your cell phones are off. i like to remind my students of that sometimes. please be sure your cell phones are off. also, remember that festival of book is free of charge. not free of cost. if you would like to support the festival, you can online or pick up a giving pact at any of the information booths. we froasht after the panel you complete your program evacuation

the yellow sheet you've been handed which helps us to develop the program in future years. so for the format for today's panelly introdews the authors. they a few minutes to introduce their books and talk about them. we will then have what i envision will be a lively discussion between yourself and the authors after which you will of course have the opportunity to purchase the books you see in front of you and have them signed by the authors. so to begin, stefanie duetch, the author of you need a schoolhouse, bocker t. washington building a school for the seg dwraited south published in 2011 by northwestern universy published article and book and book reviews in "the new york times," the washington "times," the weekly standard,

philanthropy magazine and the millions blog. in addition to writing she serves as chairman of the grant committee of the capitol hill community foundation which gives away $250,000 a year in small grants. dr. daniel haulman is chief of the ofertion history division at the and coauthor of the tuskegee airmen illustrated history of 1939 to 1949. he earned the bachelor degree from the university southwestern louisiana the master's degree from the university of new orleans and the ph.d. in history from auburn university. before pursuing he taught high school social studies in louisiana for five years. he's authored five books about aviation history, written three air force pamphlets. he's taught at huntington college, auburn university and falkner university. without further ado i give you the authors and we begin in

chronological order by subject matter which gives us stefanie first. >> thank you. >> i'm happy to have an opportunity to -- [inaudible] the subject of my book in the light of civil right the movement. bringing it more in to the present because booker t. washington and jewelries rosenwald who were well known during the lifetime have been somewhat eclipsed in recent years and washington in particular has seen his reputation slide he's been charged with being an accommodationist, being unwilling to place higher aspirations for african-americans, placing constriction what they could accomplish, and what i found in any study was quite the opposite. that he and rosenwald together made a significant contribution to the period that lead the way to the self lights movement.

booker twa many of you remember was born not too far from here on a small family farm as a slave as a child, and then with educate as hampton university, hampton substitute an it was there then. in 1881 he traveled to alabama he was invited to be the founding principal of it's key go substitute as it was then. us key go was created on the model of hampton as a school to educate teachers at the end of slavery, of course, education was very much needed by the freed month and very much wanted and to have education you have to have teachers. hampton had been created to educate teachers. it's key go was created on the same model. by 1900 it's key go was a very successful school. washington had several

attributes that con tributed to. he was a good teachers a hard workers. he was a brilliant fund-raiser. he spent a lot of time traveling up forth making speeches and shrills iting donation. and tuskegee was a thriving institution. in 1885 he a opportunity that thrust him in the limelight he was invited to be a speaker at the atlantic cotton exhibition. he was a world fair. he was the only african-american speaker. he spoke for five minutes giving a speech that was positive and upbeat. talked about african-americans and white people working together to strengthen the south for mutual progress, for economic viability for all of them, and then in a passage that later became quite controversial, he said in all things that are purely social, we blacks and whites can remain

in separate of our hand we will be as one as a first. and things that have to do with mutual benefit. in the wake of the speech, he became tremendously famous. harvard university gave him an honorary degree the next year. he and his wife took a trip to jiewrp and they were invited to tea with the queen. he had dinner with the white house with teddy roosevelt. he was increasingly famous and well known. at the same time despite the optimism. it was a difficult period for fors. ferguson case in 1994 had mandated separate but equal which was always separate but rarely equal. so increasingly jurisdictions were passing laws separating schools, hotels, playgrounds, parks, -- random sometime

thing. ives shocked to discover that how pervasive it was what a source a fear it was in the african-american community. so in 1911, when washington met rosenwald, he had reason to be optimistic. he had a heavy load of responsibility about tuskegee and anxiety about what was happening. risen walled was at that time the newly rich president of sears are buck. his parents were jewish immigrants from germany. he had been born in springfield,

illinois. his father ran a small clothing store. e grew up there and learned to chicago to start the own business. in 1895 same years booker t. washington had the opportunity with the speeching with rosenwald was invited to buy in a mail order company called sears and that proved to be a very sound investment. sears was just booming at the time, and as you all probably know, sold everything from your wedding ring to your tom stone. you could buy a house from sears. so rosenwald was very wealthy, and bought himself a big house. took a trip to you were but started looking around for philanthropy uses for his money. he always said that his money had come to him as through good luck through the own merit and he felt a certain responsibility to be a steward and use it to benefit others. he started with jewish

philanthropy in the chicago community, and when he met booker twa was ready to look a little further. two things had attracted his attention to african-americans. one was that one of the first race rites in america occurred occurred in 1908 in bring field in his hometown. was on the front page of the chicago paper. the black part of town was burned down. it was a horrifying effect and ratherly horrifying to rosenwald who had been giving money to the state sponsored rites were that attacking jewish communities at the time. about at the same time one of the friends gave him a copy of washington's auto biography. and so in 1911, when they met at the luncheon in chicago, these two men had good reasons to meet each ere.

washington was look forking wealgt people to make donations and rosenwald was anxious to know more about african-americans. they hit it off. they were both very practical men. very results-oriented. he invited washington to visit the sears plant which was huge. and washington responded by inviting rosenwald to come down to tuskegee. which he did that fall. he rented a private train car. filled it with family, friends, and his rabbi traveled down there and was impressed by what he saw. i'm sure we'll be talking more about it. it's a beautiful place. the building had been built by the students of bricks they made there. rosenwald was impressed. he agreed to serve on the board of tuskegee, and in the response between the two men that developed, he pressed washington for other ways that he might benefit the community. were there other things he could

do besides giving money to tuskegee and serving on the board, and rather quickly washington suggested schoolhouses. at that time, in rural -- in the rural south, there were many places where black children were not going school at all, if they did go to school they went for four or five months a year. they were attending school in churches, or lodge buildings or even private homes. and so schoolhouses was a major need, and washington also stressed to rosenwald that the communities that he was thinking of were very anxious to have schools. and in many places the a people living there had started to collect money. they were already thinking about how they might achoir schoolhouses. and rosenwald, one of the beliefs about philanthropy was he was a great promoter of matching grants. he felt people who were invested in the end result were more

likely to benefit from it, and so they -- he agreed to build six small schoolhouses in the area around tuskegee. which they did. the cost for him was $350 for schoolhouses. an equal amount came from the communities and on the next trip, he visited some of the schools, and was extraordinarily moved not only to see the schools and see the children, but to see the entire community turn out to welcome him to thank him, to impress grat attitude, and he agreed he quickly agreed that they would expand the program. they would build 100 more schools, and they were involved in building several hundred more when washington died in 1915 rather unexpectedly. the program continued until rosenwald's death in 1932, and at that time, there were over 5,000 schools and school-related

buildings that had been conduct by the rosenwald fund and i'll conclude with the fact that i always find stunning dollar for dollar during those twenty years of the school were being built more had come from the african-american community that benefited from the schools than from rosenwald himself. so the people in the schools who were by and large quite poor and quite disadvantaged contributed as much money as rosenwald had donated. there's lots more i could say. maybe we'll let it come out in the question and answer round. >> i'd like to start off by

throughs the efforts of the

rosenwald fund tuskegee substitute was able to construct that airfield moten field. it was a much larger air field that was built by the army air forces. a little bit northwest of motenfield tuskegee air field much larger it's where the basic flying, the advanced flying training and the transition flying training took place. that's enough from the transition. i'd like to now talk about the book as a whole. mainly to concentrate on the sources and the authors. all of the authors of the book i'm not the only one, i'm dna haulman one of the authors. another one is joseph and another one jeer roam. the three of us have worked joseph came from recently retired. we all worked at the air force historical research agency at maxwell air force base in alabama. that air force historical research agency is the primary repository of air force historical documents especially

related to air force organizations such as squadrons, groups, wings, numbered air forces, major air commands and so on. including the world war ii records of air force organizations. and i just to let you know how i got involved in writing the airmen. i have written about other aspects of air force history. i decided to write a paper about the aerial vict credits of themen several years ago. it's called 112 victory. it was eventually published. it kind of got me started in writing about the tuskegee airmen. my major contribution to the book is the crinology, it contains the very detailed crin nothing of it's tuskegee airmen events. i also wrote half a chapter introductions about the airmen. what this book started out as was a coffee table photograph book. book of photographs with

captions, and it was also going to have chapter introductions to tie everything together. but the other two authors who were originally the only two authors of the book decided that the crinology i had developed which had grown to some 70 pages, regular double space paper, was a valuable edition they would want to put in the book. they asked me if i would be a coauthor and asked me if i wanted the criminology put in the book. i was happy to put the crinology in the book. i want to say a little bit about how the book differs from the other books. there are a lot of books about the airmen. i'm sure with the movie "red tail." there's more interest. there's a lot that has been written about the tuskegee airmen. so. books in publications are a little bit more accurate than others. i can say this book is a little bit more accurate that some because it's based on the documents.

the world war ii documents of the tuskegee airmen themselves. what a lot of people don't realize is the members of the airmen themselves produced monthly history the organization during world war ii. they also produced narrative missionary reports immediately after each mission they flew. daily narrative missionary reports. so based on the history, the monthly history of the unit themselves written by the airmen themselves, the narrative mission report they compose themselves during world war ii immediately after each mission. other documents such as order that awarded them distinging flying crosses, orders that awarded them aerial victory credits, and orders that awarted the organizations disting -- those kind of documents make this book a little bit more accurate, more complete. and another thing i'd like to mention too besides having a lot of photographs, that aren't contained any of the other

publication, there is also a lot of focus on other members of the airmen organization besides the fighter pilot bhps you see the movie "red tail" you see the emphasis on the fighter pilot. but the tuskegee airmen story is much more complex than that. it's not just about the fighter pilots. it's about the bombers pilots and group. there was a group in world war ii that trained b24 bomber grews not just the pilots but everyone else. and they trained in the united states, and so it wasn't just 99 fighter squadron of the 332 fighter group. another thing that this book brings out is the different kinds of aircraft. they didn't fly just red tail b51 in combat. they flew before that b40, p39,

p48 several different kinds. the story is more complete when you look at it focusing not only on the fighter pilots but on the bombers crews and the ground personnel. if you told a lot of the fighter pilots all the bombers pilots that trained at tuskegee during world war ii it's less than 1,000. if you count the ground personnel it's over 14,000. a lot of the information about those other people who will also involved in tuskegee airmen organizations is in the book too. the last thing i'd like to say is that this connects with the civil rights movement not just with the rosenwald fund because some of the thing they accomplished. of course we know the tuskegee airmen were the first black pilots in the military. there was no black that i have members. it was a struggle to get the army air forces to admit black pilots.

but many almost 1,000 black pilots were trained in the army air forces and partly because of their record in world war ii, their success, president truman in 1948 issued an executive order 9981 which mandated the integration of the armed forces. not just the air force, but the air force was not even born until 1948 but all the armed forces. integration was partly the result racial inte graights in the armed force was parking lotly the result of the tong key agree airmen record. that wasn't the only thing. the other thing that tuskegee airmen did that helped contribute to the civil rights movement was something called the freemont field movie. i don't know if you have heard that have. the 477 bomb group was stationed at place called fee month field. in 1945, the commander of the

airfield decided that he wanted the commander of the unit 477 group decides he wanted to set up two officers. one for whites and one for blacks a and pretendedded that one for whites was trainers, and the one for blacks -67s trainees. he disguised the fact it was really racial segregation on the air force base. but the members of the 477 bomb many of the members wouldn't go along with that. 101 of them refused to sign a paper saying they recognize there will be two separate officer clubs. this is the one for this set of people and that's the one for that seventy people. refusing to go along with that 101 of them were arrested. and they eventually exonerated because the ample my air forces couldn't justify having a policy that violated the army own own policy about officers club.

if you were an officer and were stationed at a certain base you have a right go to the club. there wasn't a question about two officers clubs. that's a pioneer event, i think, in civil rights history that's part of the tuskegee airmen history. there's a direct connection between the civil rights movement and the civil rights history and the tuskegee airmen. so that's about all i want to say for the introduction. >> all right. thank you to both of you. all right. we'll open it up for audience questions but i'll start myself. one of the privilege of being the mod rayers you get to ask the first question. daniel all right started to an my question which relates to seeing both of the projects in light of the civil rights miew.d. which traditionally we thinks of marchs, boycott, demon sphraitions, all starting in about 1954, rosa ever parks. but historians are seeing a

broader longer civil rilings movement. i'm curious how 0 you to see what the were nonsegregated institutions the schools and the airmen how do you see them contributing to what becomes what we think of today as the civil rights movement is i'll allow you both to answer that and i promise we'll move to audience question. >> i think it's a great question, and it takes me back to an ah-ha moment i had a couple of years ago. i was watching the pbs documentary about the civil rights movement. i was looking at footage of people walking to work during the busboy cot in alabama. i was thinking about gorve they did it for a year. and then i went, wow, some of these people went to rosenwald schools. some of their parents went to the rosenwald schools i began to connect that sense of engagement and involvement with the way the people who built the rosenwald schools had contributed money,

had contributed land and contributed labor. i watched -- i've been watching a lot of civil rights history, a couple of last week saw the documentary about the freedom writers an the narrater said the freedom writers help dispel the myth of black impetus. i think the people that built the rose walled school and the airmen did the same thing. they were segregated institutions that had been created with a big push from african-americans to achieve goals that they very much wanted to achieve. their goals were being met by these institutions. >> one of the primary goals of the civil right movement was racial integration not only of schools but public facilities like restaurants and hotels and other places. but really it started in the military. in the 1940s.

with president truman's executive order and the implementation of that with the different services. really i think the integration of the armed forces beginning in 1949 with the air force and with the other services shortly after, helped pave the way for the integration of american society because once the military was integrated, it was easier for the veterans when they went back and regular society to push for the integration of the rest of american society. so i think that's one of the connections too. between what the tuskegee airmen did and what happened as a result of their efforts. and i should -- i should mention too that duoof the tuskegee airmen eventually became very important during the civil rights era. not really marching in civil rights marchs or anything. but the first black general in the air force was benjamin davis jr. who was the most important

tuskegee airman. he comanted the 99 fighter squad whereon and the crew and the 477 bomb group. e commanded all the airmen organization. he became the first black general in the air force. during the civil rights movement era. another was daniel, "chappy" james who became the first four-star general in the military. >> let's have some question from the audience. i'll ask you to raise your hand so we can bring you a microphone so it will pick up for the broadcast. [inaudible] displifs born in alabama.

i lived many montgomery during the boycott years and participated in the boycott. very much -- territory tuskegee -- [inaudible] hunting college -- [inaudible] in dealing with booker t. washington. you he was an important character. it was tough without talking about did you boys because as you said, washington thought that -- [inaudible] i would like to have a comment on that. i also want to know what role did rosenwald play, if any, in having genes teachers the --

[inaudible] under the white supervisor. my grandfather started the school they went to the first years of my life. his name was beaning minimum and i went to that one-teacher school for eight years. it had some connection when i never had any connection with the rosenwald. i wanted to know if the teachers the supervisors come -- [inaudible] >> they were not part of the rosenwald organization. they were more like alongside of and in some cases, worked in the rosenwald schools. but they were not part of the rosenwald program. it was a separate -- completely separate program and rosenwald did not involve himself with a teachers because the schools were public schools. so the teachers were employed by the state or the county. was your school you went to a rosenwald school?

>> no. it was not i said my grandfather started that school and i went it for it for eight years of my life. [inaudible] the final stop he thought things were going to be. in an interview toward the end of his life he was asked do you think there will be an african-american president? he said yes, i shall think so. and he was very practical. he thought in the immediate what was needed primarily was education. and did you boys agreed with that. he was more focus oned needs what he called the talented tent. the people for whom elementary and second dare education wasn't enough. people who were going to be intellectual and artistic

leaders. washington didn't in any way wish to detract from that. his own children went university. but he knelt before you could have that, you have to have a solid base of people who have had primary education. and washington was also a little -- it was a lyingly earlier time. the constraints were slightly different. we could talk about this a lot, i don't know. we'll let other people have a chance to ask questions. [laughter] >> [inaudible conversations] i did a little work in pittsburgh at the college there. i wanted to know how do we enhance the relationship between the jewish community here in -- and the university of virginia?

>> well, that's an interesting question. probably someone from -- [inaudible] having trouble hearing us? he asked -- sorry the question was how can charlotteville work to increase collaboration between the jewish community and the university of virginia? >> in town and the university. >> well, i'll tell you an experience i had a few weeks ago that might point us in a direction. i was speaking at rosenwald school in north carolina, and salem that is still a school today. it's a public school, and i spoke at an assembly after i spoke a young african-american teacher came up to me. she said i can't believe it. i've never heard the rosenwald schools. i grew up in connecticut, my church, the black baptist church

had a relationship with the sing going. i went to the all the ceremonies and celebrated all the jewish holidays and the so you wish children would come to my church and do things with us. i'm amazed i don't know the story about rosenwald. i think little projects like that can build bridges. it's ab interesting and important relationship the relationship between jews and blacks. [inaudible] the book there are -- [inaudible] clearly i know i haven't had a chance to read them, obviously. women are part of the story; right? how would you give us a little taste of how women play in to the story in both of these? >> you go first. okay. >> i can tell you a little bit about the women and the tuskegee

airmen. there's been some debate recently in the tuskegee airman incorporated. i've been a member for some time and the last five national conventions i've attended and one of the issues that people are talking about is whether the tuskegee airmen name should be called it's tuskegee airmen or tuskegee air women. because women were involved from the beginning, and they were not only nurses, they were nurses who trained at tuskegee and were involved in the tuskegee army air field. there were several different ground personnel. i told you that the number of pilots was less than 1,000 but the ground personnel were 14,000. many of them were women. i'll tell you one of the stories about the airmen an the wife. her bet is one of the original. he still alive today. he's 94 years old.

he lives in it's key go. his wife passed away few months ago. his wife could be considered in a way a tuskegee air woman even though she didn't train in the military. she supported her husband and she got pilot training herself. he went to the civilian pilot training and kennedy field. tuskegee substitute response spored that civilian pilot training. because she was a black woman, and not black man, she doesn't have the opportunity to go to the field for the primary flight training or it's qee agree army air field. so she faced a wall there. she department have the door of opportunity open for her at the time. but she continued to work at tuskegee and at the fields supporting the program. and she was honored just a little over a year ago for being the first black woman to and pilot listens in alabama.

i was interested in trying to find out why black women weren't allowed at w. s. a. p. women air service pilot. the door of opportunity was closed to women as well. women played an important role among the tuskegee airmen. but a support role at the time because flying in the military was closed to them they were not only black but they were women. they had two doors to are face two challenges. does that answer your question? [inaudible] >> i didn't phrase it as specifically as i could but connecting the men to the families. so their mothers, their wives, their children, together a more holistic sense who they were. how their records indicate writing back and forth. that dynamic, and with the washington and rosenwald, of

course washington's wives were active. and i imagine rosenwald's wife was or sisters. how tsh do they fit in to the story? >> that's a great question. women are always part of every story, and -- [laughter] certainly in the case of washington and rosenwald, they were -- and with the schools but i'll start with the two men. washington, you know, had a very tragic private life in the sense that he married a year after he started tuskegee, he married a women he had known from his the town he grew up, and fannie smith, and they had a daughter, and when the daughter was less than a year old, she died -- his wife died, and so a year or so later, he married 0 oliva davidson who was teaching and a very well-educated quite beautiful woman, and they had two children, two little boys

and when the younger one was less than about three months old. she died. as a young man he lost two wives and married a third time margaret murray who was a graduate and became actived at the school, and quite involved in certainly in his life but also in his work at tuskegee. rosenwald married his first wife guses sei with a background like his. her parents had been imgrants to the father. her father was a peddler for 11 years before he set up a store in upstage new york. they moved to illinois. she had one brother and six sisters. so he was surrounded a lot of sisters-in-law. they had five children, three daughters to whom they were devoted. just on the subject of the rosenwald schools, women were often very involved in the

communities where the money was raised for the schools. they were very involved in the programs and also as teachers. many rosenwald schools they have visited people will talk about how they had the same teacher for many years there was a teacher there for twenty five years and the vast majority of the teachers were women. they had a huge impact on the children they taught. they were really -- they really more than just teachers. they issue commune or its and community leaders. they were very important. [inaudible] i already mentioned herbert carter and his wife. and i should say as a paragraph in the book of herbert carter standing next to his plane. his p40, i think at the time and he's stand next next to it and it says mike. mike was the nickname of his wife mill dread. and so a lot of tuskegee airmen

were married during world war ii and they wrote back and forth with their wives and received a lot of support from the wives and i've become acquainted with subject somewhat having attend the last five it's key go national convention i got meet a lot of the widows and i can mention one in particular. george roberts was the first black commander of the 99 fighter squad ron even before davis jr. at the time. he wasn't a general then. he was a later commander. but his wife was at the last convention, and i got speak with her, she said the wives had a very great deal to do with the success of their husbands. >> other questionings? [inaudible] that's a good question.

they didn't have much success at first getting jobs with airline paps lot of them were trained pilots. all of them were trained pilots who had flown overseas an some of them who haven't flown over seas with the 477. and they were -- many of them interested in the opportunity they might have in the airlines and many of the airlines wouldn't accept them as pilots at first. that doesn't mean they didn't keep trying and eventually many of them became pilots in the airline in private industry. a lot of tuskegee airmen stayed in the service. i should say that chappy james flew in world war ii, korea, and vietnam and became the first four-star black general in the american armed forces. but he also had taken part in those three wars world war ii, korea, and vietnam. charles mcgee is another

tuskegee airmen who stayed in the service possibly because he knew he had more opportunities there at first than in a private life. and he also flew in world war ii and korea and vietnam. and he has 409 combat missions. when you total the combat chitions he had in all three wars. that's not the to say they didn't succeed outside the military. many of them did go in to private business. not necessarily the airlines and other businesses that became successful. one of the most outstanding examples of that is roscoe browne. roscoe browne was a tuskegee airmen on march 24, 1945 flew on the berlin mission, the only mission to berlin that the tuskegee airmen that flew on. the only one the 15th air force flew on because it was usually the eighth air force from england. on the mights he shot down a german jet and became famous partly because of that. he also became a famous

educator, and he was the one who westbound -- if you remember the 2007 ceremony in which president george w. bush presented a gold medal to the tuskegee airmen collectively for their services in world war for and beyond, and roscoe browne was the tuskegee airmen chosen to accept on braf of the tuskegee airmen as a whole that medal. i askeds roscoe browne, whom identify gotten to know over the years if he would write the introduction to the book. he accepted. he has an introduction written in here. but he's an example of the successful tuskegee airman after world war ii. he became successful outside the military. >> i'm interested in the tuskegee connection. we keep talking about tuskegee in different eras and different ones. one think the substitute and the military.

could you tell us more about the tuskegee for those not from alabama or even in the area? what was it like and what was it like in world war ii? tell us a little bit about that. >> when booker t. washington went down this in 1881, it was a small town, and there was nothing there. he created the campus that is there now of tuskegee. one of the things he did was tuskegee was a training school for teachers. but it also taught trades and one of the trades say that taught there was brick making. it had been in the area and he revised that and the building that you see if you go there today were built by students of bricks that students had made and it's quite beautiful. it's a rolling hilly campus. with the large red brick buildings. many were designed by robert

taylor who was the first african-american graduate of i m. i. t. who was an architect. he designed many of the buildings. there was a beautiful chapel that sadly burned down in the '50s. terrorist a another beautiful chapel there. it's a thriving university today. ..

>> all over the country. they were not familiar with of racial conditions at the time. many were shocked at the segregation policies they did not have to deal with. many come from the north but

pilots trained across the country but in the black pilots at the day's like haiti had to train at tuskegee that was the only airfield to offer basic and advanced training. and the haitians right used to the segregated conditions. and those from the north were not understanding but in the town was predominantly black. the leadership was white. and because of the restrictive policies of the town i have spoken with the

tuskegee airmen sunbelt the comfortable going into town because of the situation is officially at the airfield they had things that they needed but so low they stayed on the base. i should mention two of the three airfields were owned by the tuskegee institute. one was kennedy field in the other was built because of the rosenwald fund. i think there was more of the situation because it was

so large with so many facilities. >> the field is now a wonderful museum. they have a nice display. >> with saying that we associate is the syphilis study that has nothing to do with our books but the little school that mentioned many been involved in this steadied went to the school and it was the recruiting area and one of the reasons that's cool is preserved because of the significance to the syphilis study. >> unfortunately people who

go there today to visit the historic site think at is where the of the training to place their wrists several different phases and then the basic training, the advanced training and transition flight was that the larger airfield northwest of their. is in ruins now. the personnel of the agency went to on a field trip and there is not much left because most of the buildings have been taken away.

most have been moved away but you could see where the attacks these and the streets were. is something that is not well no. >> with the rosenwald area in the south, and for those topics of four to and if i remember this correctly lots of northern philanthropist facility is and that's it

staycation is limited. of book 30 washington model that is except a bold. what did derozan vote -- rosenwald's few blacks. >> that is a huge and somewhat controversial topic. >> yes he gave money to many schoolhouses but to they did find high-school some that some of the little rock nine went to.

he gave money to howard and was a very significant benefactor. and it was not unique to be interested rockefeller is where very interested. and spelman is named after a rockefellers' wife. said that existed for a long time. i don't think rosenwald thought he was educating people for the future but needed education. he wasn't really philosophically oriented but more practical.

i don't think it occurred to him. there were a libraries associated with the schools. >> spin acustar did to touch on the interest of philanthropy four education how that it spread out to force some other example how it could have spread. >> it is significant if you look at wealthy people today, education and is a field they focus on.

his chosen to fields that are of great interest. that remains a basic area for from a the paper co with etfs for them to have better lives our careers to manage themselves. rosenwald felt strongly each generation creates its own wealth and knows the need of the time of which it exist so the foundation was designed to go off within 25 years of his death. the rosenwald muddy no

longer exists. people are picking up the pieces and working in that field. >> in the 1930's their word german jewish professors somewhere lucky enough to get here. those german jewish professors that could not find employment but with that black and historic connection it is their one? >> no. but it is a fascinating story.

jewish intellectuals and professors could be germany and five were teaching at historic the black colleges. and wonderful story but no direct relationship to the rosenwald fund. >> i was worried about the layout we went through one last week it seemed to specious and light filled and attractive for bell i wonder who designed that model? did the plants actually peat come? to have the to module school or how much was directed by the community and their own

funding and how much was preset? >> a great question. the schools were standardized and created at tuskegee and robert taylor who designed where the buildings bayou are right to their very spacious with a distinctive windows. many of the school's look very much alike built on six different plans depending on the size. the two teachers school one of the most common plans. and white school systems copied the plan.

it is very interesting. the plans were particularly attractive. >> we're out of time. but thank you for the virginia festival of the book. sees me the authors, purchase books and have them sign and continue the discussion. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> and you hear about it discuss saying arms-control but all they long after doing nowadays said private. returns out he complained that it the press was being

tough on jackie. and the older generation said pressure off. why does it matter? kennedy said that is easy for you to say. how would you like it to if they said your wife was a drunk? he said i would simply say you should have seen her mother. [laughter] >> it gives an idea that you cannot learn in realtime >>host: how veba brain

cells do we have? >> we used to think 100 billion that hung around for ages. but and a couple of years ago send an e-mail around asking and where we got the number from. everybody wrote 100 billion and i have no idea. it is justin all the books. she developed a new yuki and count anything that is 10 of billions. she recounted and found there were only 80 billion. but the larger difference is we thought we had 10 times as many feel cells that are the packing brain cells not

the packing to keep it together. delayed the name glial means blue. so we lost 120 billion cells in one fell swoop. [laughter] >>host: what don't we know? >> i think what don't we know that we don't know? but there is. he was correct but that is a question emperor ago rehab

letters to the ignorance syracuse day you talk about things. >> my a paper quote to is foundry carry getting her second graduate degree said something one never seems to notice what has been done but what remains to be done. that gets us into the lab and moves along. let's get on to the next thing and what is the next best thing? >> page 28 and proclaimed sciences always wrong and never solves the problem. >> guy say is said that glorious? i think it is the right

description for science. but just to name drop, years before cam up with the idea of question propagation. every answer gets more questions. do scientists rest on their laurels? >> i guess everybody dennis at some time. it is dangerous they tend not to be at all that foundation no. and the one that is the least unleashed is a rehab we were cared for data but also realize they are the most unreliable part.

today of what you buy will be overturned bourse superseded by the next generation of scientist and tools. banal it is a victory. >>host: use a science and nature magazine is important to be published. but to recommend to your students you'd recommend not the last issue but 10 years ago? >> they should this year to stay current but with this week's nature i have

experiment suggesting that. let's get to work. i know the people have already done the next 10 experiments. the real place to go for a ignorance but in the high blood eight -- high quality papers of the day they did not know what questions to ask to have the tools or technology. the right to be revisited. >> does technology help to discover science? >> sure. often it drives of question and technology. mr. mentation had so we spend a critical part. >>host: professor what's another fact we knew that has changed.

>> mind research laboratory works with test -- taste and smell, the chemical senses. one of the best known facts is the map the you find in every high school textbook and most believe there is a map of sensitivity on your tongue and to taste sweet with the tip and bitter at the back and that is completely untrue. it is a mess translation of an anecdotal report from the early 1900 that was picked up by well-known psychology professor. one is called psychology the other is called boring.

apparently it stood the test of time even though it is totally wrong. >> so many things to lead to two 1/2 of the test of time and we can launch space shuttles using newton floss of gravity. the most notably since einstein but the way we say it is the regime that newton proposals mermaid but what is changed is it has expanded so now newtons formulations work as long as

you don't travel the speed of light. then you have to invoke relativity. slow good gps devices need to be adjusted or otherwise they would be 50 meters off. albert einstein has stood up but he had a couple of alleges that said he claimed to the now what has come back. he does not know that but it seems to be important it is only been one century. >> what is your class called? >> figuring as well. i am thankful at colombia to

teach a class called ignorant. it started six years ago and based on the feeling i was doing a disservice giving 25 lectures and using one of the leading textbooks in the field. >> that cannot be right but this soon as got the idea everything was known. that is not trooper ago but we know the next up is not true. we know much about the brain or what we don't know.

i thought to i should teach them of the ignorance of neuroscience. then i said why not to do a whole course? that it is what we do. it me this once a week as a seminar course i invite the other members of the faculty your other scientists to talk to our is what they don't know. very specifically. not did how the universe began with the discovery channel. how the individual science grapples why it is was this instead of that. this things of that nature. >> in the book one is day

and every sues studies communication and a star at the chapter is anything harder that red is the same? yes what is the animals mind. and also she is my wife as well. [laughter] button she was a visitor. a highlight the physicist morrice sumner scientist to work in various areas of neuroscience and then i use myself as a case because one

class a speaker got ill and my wife said phil then and i will interview you. so why did. i have the transcript so i will use myself as a case history. >> how important it is money to this research? >> we have to think carefully how much to put to into research versus applied research and make the balance work out. with those 14 generations even if we don't know what we will get out of it.